In an age when the Arquebus was appearing on the battlefield wearing any more armor than this seems quite daft. One thing that wasn't really mentioned is that any time in artwork where cloth is seen, you cannot know whether or not there is armor under the cloth, this has been a constant issue looking at medieval art. you could easily wear some mail sleeves as well as some mail shorts and maybe throw in a iron codpiece for your groin all under your clothes and be even more armored if you chose, and none of that would show up if someone were to draw you.
True, and this is especially difficult when dealing with Landsknechte. I do have the advantage of basing my kit of early Landsknechte, which don't have that many puffy things everywhere as they would in later decades and also plenty of openings in their clothing to show whether or not they're wearing armour. It does take a lot of knowledge of both clothes and armour to properly interpreted images though, I fully agree.
"By the way, would the late 15th century Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ worn by the Habsburg Spanish,🇪🇸 Conquistadors and Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenaries on horseback,🏇 of an English,🏴 standard thoroughbred horses,🐴 wearing Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ protect them from the inferior primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze 🥉 age ancient aztec obsidian and flint rock,🪨 bladed,🔪edge wooden weapons,🔫 such as the Macuahuitl sword,🗡⚔ club,♧ and the early Bronze, 🥉 age, bronze,🥉 bladed,🔪 battle axe called,🤙 the Tomahawk, alongside the poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 arrowheads,➡ on a wooden arrow,➡ with a feathery end,🔚 fired, 🔥 from the primitive stone,🪨 age wooden longbow, 🏹 and deer,🦌 skin quiver,😖 alongside the poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 arrowheads,➡ on a long wooden dart,🎯 with a feathery end,🔚 thrown from a wooden spearthrower called,🤙an Atlatl spear thrower alongside the poison,☠️ tipped wooden darts,🎯 with a feathery end,🔚 blown,🐡 out of the front of the wooden blow, 🌬 gun,🔫 and round clay balls,⚽ made of stone,🪨 obsidian and flint rocks,🪨 thrown from a string made sling used by the hostile primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec jaguar,🐆 and eagle,🦅 warriors alongside the coyote,🐺 warrior priests of primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec Mexico,🇲🇽 in the year of fifteen hundred nineteen to the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration,🔭 of the new world, 🗺 in the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred fifty-three?"
"Would the late 15th century to early 16th century renaissance,🎨 👤 Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenary plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ protect them, from the inferior hostile primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉 age ancient mesoamerican indigenous Mexican,🇲🇽 tribal weapons,🔫 of the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉age ancient Aztecs, Mayans, Toltecs, Mixtecs,Olmecs,and Zapotecs, of primitive stone,🪨 age ancient Mexico,🇲🇽 San Salvador, 🇦🇷 Grenada,🇬🇩 and Panama,🇵🇦 in the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the siege,💥 of the primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec capital city,🏙 of Tenochtitlan of the primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec Mexico,🇲🇽 in the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration, 🔭 of the new world,🗺 of the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred fifty-three?"
Thanks for doing this. Having more data on incomplete armors is great. As the image at 0:10 indicates, well-armored 16th-century infantry would often have tassets to protect the thighs. The arm protection might also be somewhat more comprehensive than in this video, & backplates were common. Circa 1500, Paul Dolnstein wrote that he & his fellows (1,800 Germans) all had breastplates, backplates, helmets, & arm braces. Dolnstein sketch shows tassets that cover a little more than half the thigh. Some infantry might have even more armor, at least if their captains could get them to wear it. Ideally, Raimond de Fourquevaux wanted all regular pikers to wear three-quarters harness plus mail hose, with a helmet with a sight almost covered. He noted that the standard practice of the mid 16th century was for the first few ranks to have the best men in the best armor, with the rest almost as an afterthought. His pikers additionally all had shields on their backs to swing down for the melee, & Fourquevaux instructed that pikers turn targetiers only thrust at uncovered targets like the face & legs (assuming opposing pikers would have less armor, as was the standard practice). Earlier, Niccolò Machiavelli, whom Fourquevaux drew on heavily, did claim most Swiss/German infantry had little armor. Later 16th-century manuals generally call for half or three-quarters harness for at least some pikers.
Lovely overview. I haven't really dived into French sources as you have, but on the whole I agree that this seems to have been the case in a lot of places. I remember similar descriptions of Italian practices for instance. In order to be fully armoured enough for Dolnstein's liking, I should indeed get a little more gear. I'm currently still fiddling with the tassets that come with my cuirass to make them comfortable and I would like to get a backplate in due time as well. :)
That's really interesting, do you have an English translation of Raimond de Fourquevaux? I've only found French digital copies, and unfortunately I'm [currently] mono-lingual.
"By the way, would the late 15th century to early 16th century renaissance,🎨👤 Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ worn by the Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenaries payed,🪙 💵 by King,🤴 Charles the fifth of Granada Habsburg Spain,🇪🇸 to explore,🔭 the new world,🗺 with Hernan Cortez, Pedro de Alvarado, Cristobal de Olid, and Bernal Diaz, the Habsburg Spanish,🇪🇸 Conquistadors on horseback of an English,🏴 standard thoroughbred horses,🐴 wearing Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ for protection from the primitive Stone,🪨 age to early Bronze,🥉age ancient mesoamerican indigenous Mexican,🇲🇽 poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 weapons,🔫 of the Aztecs, Mayans, Toltecs, Mixtecs, Olmecs, and Zapotecs, of Mexico,🇲🇽 Nicaragua,🇳🇮 and Panama,🇵🇦 in the year of fifteen hundred nineteen to the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration,🔭 christianization,💒☦☧ colonization,🗺 and conquest of the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉age ancient mesoamerican indigenous Mexican,🇲🇽 and South american,🌎 jungles,🌴 empires and tribes of the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉age new world,🗺 in the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred seventy-two?"
Good video. " How effective is armour? " We get this a lot in living history/reenactment. As always it's a balancing act in the compromising game ) Protection ) Mobility ) Sensory input ) Economics ) Survivability outside of combat Just to name a few.
Yeah, that question is indeed too simple. There's so many factors. I really love exploring the half armour because you know a very fine line of protection and practicality is being walked. :D
Legs in general are a hard target to hit just due to simple geometry as they're further away from your sword than the opponent's head. And any strike to the legs generally opens you up because of that. I don't believe the slip is used in medieval and very early modern sources (I don't study any too in depth from that period) but in the 1700s-1800s the leg slip is used to defend against leg strikes and is very strong
The leg slip is not really used around 1500 IIRC. It becomes super hard to do well on shoes such as these, since you have little traction to begin with. Closest we get is a double step, or similar action, where you gather up either the front leg to the rear or the rear leg to the front. Lecküchner has this and I think Bolognese sources might have something similar. But we also have to keep in mind that these were not necessarily only meant for battlefield use. The German tradition deals with this by keeping an almost constant threat of a centerline thrust, meaning that any attempt to go down should in theory always fail. Leg shots, are indeed somewhat difficult to really pull of if the opponent is constantly seeking a bind.
Cool, I wonder if both fighters using a heavier messer would change things up, even if one is unarmored, then that lessens that speed advantage? Also, wonder if there're ways to more actively use the armor to help techniques, say closing to grappling more? Kinda like those Leckucher techniques in which you grab the sword close to the body. Maybe that outside arm protection would help when initially wrapping the arm around the blade. Good stuff...
I definitely think that wearing armour makes some of the gewappnet hand plays from Lecküchner more viable. There's a few plays in Messer Nemen, that make very little sense if you don't have armour on your forearms. I'll get to those eventually. :)
Clear demonstration that half-armor works perfectly and gives a total advantage in fight. Does not constrain movements and allows you to move almost as fast as without armor. The level of in combat protection is still very high. Great demonstration. 👍👍
I did this myself once, with just a fully enclosed helmet and gauntlets. I got more hits on those protected areas that didn't count as valid hits, allowing me to dominate the duels. Was quite a fun experience.
The reason they didn't wear sabatons and greaves was because they were foot troops expected to march long distances to battle and they were mercenaries not supplied by royal armories and the basics were easier to maintain and btw some did have leg armor in the form of the quad protectors that attached to the curiess in the front (unfortunately I don't know the name of the armor piece)
You may be referring to tassets. But yes. Leg armour has been scientifically proven to be the most tiring part to wear for a combatant on foot. I still like the fact that it also appears as though there wasn't a great need for it either, but that would need a lot more experimentation to say with any certainty.
Looks like a very practical approach to being light enough for lots of travel (early swiss gewalthaufen could win by mobility) and base armor that allows for mistakes. Battles lasting for hours without water etc, making mistakes and getting the second chance surely creates confidence. You see him even in the short sparring already adapting to 'taking a blow' as part of some offensives.
Excellent video. It's like football pads & helmets, it keeps things from being worse! Also makes your opponent work harder and lets the wearer to be more confident and aggressive. No lower legs or back because it is vital to reduce weight and preserve mobility. Many period infantry armors have no arm protection but I've found that even in a practice skirmish with pikes your hands and forearms are very vulnerable. Personally I'd like to see more reenactors wear an infantry half armor at least a decent helmet.
Agreed! And I've found that marching with leg armour is utterly atrocious, whereas armouring up the top halve seems to be less bothersome while on the move.
@@VirtualFechtschule Totally agree! I got a nice Landsknecht infantry armor from Valentine back in 2003 (had a back & breast plate and helmet before that). But had to get some gauntlets and a set of vambraces . The tassets ended above the knee and had straps so they didn't move much but probably not worn on a march. I found out quickly that I could cheat in a pike skirmish. Left shoulder forward and just push in.
@@VirtualFechtschule The ergonomics as such that with the leg plates, it's a bit like climbing stairs constantly right? Because every motion is pulling against additional inertial, you expend more effort. Fast movements make this worse. With upper vest and arms armor, it's all relatively holding still. Storming a staircase or some grade will suck still, but on flat ground, you can get pretty far.
Awesome video, very informative. When you think about it, half armor is still somewhat being used in modern combat. Although it's now optimized for hot lead and environmental hazards than cold steel.
This is fantastic! I’ve always wanted to know more about combat in half armour like this so this was so insightful, I look forward to more! Also the whole armour looks great! One question I have is how armour affects grappling and wrestling techniques. Especially if only one of you is armoured. Does it make it any easier or harder to control an opponent?
Thanks! I haven't tried a lot of grappling in armour yet, but I have found that it does make it slightly easier to control an opponent. Your receptivity to touch input is obviously lowered, meaning it's harder to twist out of certain locks instinctively. :)
What a cool video! It was especially interesting to see how much the armor on the arms and hands came into play, as well as the situations where the armor would protect you while letting a double hit or afterblow take out the opponent.
Cool stuff! My experience with leg armor as a foot soldier comes down to: it freaking sucks to walk any significant distance with leg armor; that coupled with it being targeted less often and less fatally makes it the last to be equipped.
Also, I’ve watched a documentary once that the suction from sabatons and greaves sink into thick mud increases your likihood of tripping exponentially, so in some cases, lower legs armor can flipping kill you. I think it was a agincourt documentary, but those are almost always dodgy.
Go on a campaign covering 100’s of kilometers and you will get rid of the items that aren’t necessary. When Henry V’s men went into France they quickly started discarding any extra armor. For the foot soldaten they carry everything on their backs.
This is cool experiment. Maybe I will do it some day too :3 Also tournament or fechtschule were everyone may have some piece of armour could be cool context to experience and think about.
There was some sort of notion of the Fechtschule rules of the 15th century having rules that simulated armoured fighting to some extent, but I'm not sure what that was based on. I'll ask around a bit to see if I can track that reference down. :)
Thanks! The breastplate is from +/- 1500, being of a design that was pretty common in Germany and the low countries for mass-produced armour (so pretty suitable for early Landsknechte, I would say). The typical fluted Maximilian style is slightly later, from 1515 onwards.
@@unibsmithm7518 : In Landsknecht era, in contast to now, the equipment of a mercenary was not so often paid by the mercenaries employer. There really had been men, who came with no equipment, no training and no experience. These men got equipment by mercenary leader, they had been trained, but with cheapest equipment, in this case with pikes as main weapons, but their pay was low. Mercenaries who came with own equipment, especially when they had been Trainer vor expierienced, got more pay. And a man with musket got more pay than a pikeman, a horseman more than a footman ... This footmen, coming with own armour used, what they could buy ( often old or cheap), captured armour from dead enemies, not a compete suit of armour, transformed pieces ... So everthing was possible. And, that once pikemen had lowest pay, is the reason for a german saying: Er hat seinen Beruf von der Pike auf gelernt./ about: He learned his job from the pike upwards or he started his job with the pike.
"By the way, would the late 15th century to early 16th century renaissance,🎨👤 Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ worn by the Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenaries on horseback,🏇 an English,🏴 standard thoroughbred horses,🐴 wearing Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ for protection from the primitive Stone,🪨 age to early Bronze,🥉age ancient Aztec weapons,🔫 such as the poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 arrowheads,➡ on wooden feathery end,🔚 arrows,➡ fired,🔥 from the primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec longbow,🏹 loaded with the deer,🦌skin quiver,😖 alongside the poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 arrowheads,➡ on a long wooden dart,🎯 with a feathery end,🔚 thrown from a wooden spearthrower called an Atlatl spear thrower alongside the poison,☠️ tipped wooden feathery end,🔚 darts,🎯 blown,🐡 out of the wooden blow, 🌬 gun,🔫 and clay balls,⚽ made of stone,🪨 obsidian and flint rock,🪨 thrown from a string made sling used by the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉 age ancient Aztec jaguar,🐆 and eagle,🦅 warriors alongside the coyote,🐺 warrior priests of primitive Stone,🪨 age to early Bronze,🥉age ancient Aztec Mexico,🇲🇽 in the year of fifteen hundred nineteen to the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration,🔭 christianization,💒☦☧ colonization,🗺 and conquest of the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉 age ancient mesoamerican indigenous empires, tribes, and the jungles,🌴 of the new world,🗺 in the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred seventy-two?"
Would be interesting to expand this into group fighting with more "battlefield" weapons like halberds and pikes. That's one area I've found the more historical Larp events to be a good testing ground for, practical applications of armour in a infantrymans role. Finding what coverage is most important whilst retaining the best mobility and functionality for the role.
Good question and not anachronistic since there were still fully armoured knights on the battlefield in the 16th century! [Mild spoiler for coming video] it makes a world of difference. When using armoured fighting techniques. The half armour is great against normal types of fighting, but when someone starts using armoured fighting techniques, the gaps are really easy to find. With a proper full armour, those gaps are fewer and smaller.
"By the way, would the late 15th century to early 16th century renaissance,🎨 👤 Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenaries on horseback,🏇 of an English,🏴 standard thoroughbred horse,🐴 wearing Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ protect them from the inferior primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉age ancient mesoamerican indigenous Mexican,🇲🇽 obsidian and flint rock,🪨 bladed,🔪 edge wooden weapons,🔫 of the primitive stone,🪨 age ancient Aztec jaguar, 🐆 and eagle,🦅 warriors alongside the coyote,🐺 warrior priests of primitive Stone,🪨 age ancient Mexico,🇲🇽 in the year of fifteen hundred nineteen to the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration,🔭 of the new world,🗺 of America,🌎 🇺🇸 in the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred fifty-three?"
Armored fighting does indeed chancing things I'm talking from expierence. My armor is a full armor though and from expierence I can tell you the parts that chance how you fight the most would be the gauntlets, the helmet, the padding underneat it all, the spaulders or pauldrens and the cuiras or brigendine. The gauntlets are very logical why they chance things cause they would chance how you hold a weapon and it will be heavyer to swing your weapon, the helmet is less logical but a full faced or half faced helmet actuely effect breathing and sight a lot sow you have to adept to that, pauldrens or spaulders limit your arm mobility the most of everything cause you can no longer lift your arms above your head propperly, padding is hot need I say more 😅 and your cuiras will be heavy and effect you that way, but will also force you to use your arms slightly different when crossing them cause you will no longer be able to place your ellebow's over eachother. Apart from those pieces the rest won't effect you at all aside from making your body slightly heavyer in my expierence. If you do hema it's worth buying armor cause it will give you a new found respect for knights and a insight on how armor effects the body.
@@VirtualFechtschule true that's why I'm kind of also pointing it out, plus you can only truely understand it by trying it. 😇 sow maby people that don't yet have expierence in armor might try it after hearing how different it is. Confermation from others with expierence can only help right? 😉
you'll probably find that if you stopped trying to do this rigid landsknecht kata thing and actually move a bit more freely you'll win more of those sparring fights
Did you recognize, that he is almost never really engaging you, but instead teasing you with some kind of attacks, until you come into his playground were he strikes you, when you are in the middle of your movement?
Yes. That is basically what Tijmen is really good at. The shoes really didn't work so well on that floor, so I had very little I could do against that, but then I find fencing him a good challenge on my best days.
From many of the drawings people have massive calves. I don’t think that was a stylistic exaggeration. I think it’s a clue to their fighting style. There is a boxer named Manny Pacquiao who also has big calves and his style is very “in and out”. There are boxers who have hulking upper bodies but skinny calves and they are not as mobile. I think the landsknechts style must have involved lots of “in and out” attacks and they were very mobile moving back and forth and side to side.
That's an interesting take and there might be something to it. I think that 'in and out' fighting is part of most styles, but we do see more of it as the 16th century progresses. Earlier styles do have a tendency to keep moving forward instead. This may have to do with that being easier with their footwear, but an equally logical explanation is that most earlier sources needed techniques to synchronise with horseback fighting techniques (where you tend to keep moving forward as well).
I know right! I was really happily surprised. Costwise it would be difficult to estimate, because there's some DIY involved, but if you have it made fully, it should set you back around 1500 euro I guess (although it could be less or waaay more, depending on what quality and style you're after).
I was thinking the same thing, but if you look at videos like this you can see that Oskar is capable of some pretty crisp fencing. I think the relative slowness here is a concession to gear more than lack of ability.
I disagree. Watching their technique they’re very technical. I’ve done a lot of dusack fencing and what I’m seeing is a lot of baiting and nachreisen. Oskar is wearing armour which would feel very different to “normal” hema gear so it’s natural that he’d be moving differently. This is making me miss fencing though, I’ve had to take a break for over a year because of COVID.
![Landsknecht versus Knight [halberd, pollaxe and pike in armour]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KhgyAbjblxA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Landsknecht versus Knight [halberd, pollaxe and pike in armour]](/img/tr.png)
In an age when the Arquebus was appearing on the battlefield wearing any more armor than this seems quite daft. One thing that wasn't really mentioned is that any time in artwork where cloth is seen, you cannot know whether or not there is armor under the cloth, this has been a constant issue looking at medieval art. you could easily wear some mail sleeves as well as some mail shorts and maybe throw in a iron codpiece for your groin all under your clothes and be even more armored if you chose, and none of that would show up if someone were to draw you.
True, and this is especially difficult when dealing with Landsknechte. I do have the advantage of basing my kit of early Landsknechte, which don't have that many puffy things everywhere as they would in later decades and also plenty of openings in their clothing to show whether or not they're wearing armour. It does take a lot of knowledge of both clothes and armour to properly interpreted images though, I fully agree.
"By the way, would the late 15th century Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ worn by the Habsburg Spanish,🇪🇸 Conquistadors and Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenaries on horseback,🏇 of an English,🏴 standard thoroughbred horses,🐴 wearing Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ protect them from the inferior primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze 🥉 age ancient aztec obsidian and flint rock,🪨 bladed,🔪edge wooden weapons,🔫 such as the Macuahuitl sword,🗡⚔ club,♧ and the early Bronze, 🥉 age, bronze,🥉 bladed,🔪 battle axe called,🤙 the Tomahawk, alongside the poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 arrowheads,➡ on a wooden arrow,➡ with a feathery end,🔚 fired, 🔥 from the primitive stone,🪨 age wooden longbow, 🏹 and deer,🦌 skin quiver,😖 alongside the poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 arrowheads,➡ on a long wooden dart,🎯 with a feathery end,🔚 thrown from a wooden spearthrower called,🤙an Atlatl spear thrower alongside the poison,☠️ tipped wooden darts,🎯 with a feathery end,🔚 blown,🐡 out of the front of the wooden blow, 🌬 gun,🔫 and round clay balls,⚽ made of stone,🪨 obsidian and flint rocks,🪨 thrown from a string made sling used by the hostile primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec jaguar,🐆 and eagle,🦅 warriors alongside the coyote,🐺 warrior priests of primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec Mexico,🇲🇽 in the year of fifteen hundred nineteen to the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration,🔭 of the new world, 🗺 in the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred fifty-three?"
"Would the late 15th century to early 16th century renaissance,🎨 👤 Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenary plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ protect them, from the inferior hostile primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉 age ancient mesoamerican indigenous Mexican,🇲🇽 tribal weapons,🔫 of the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉age ancient Aztecs, Mayans, Toltecs, Mixtecs,Olmecs,and Zapotecs, of primitive stone,🪨 age ancient Mexico,🇲🇽 San Salvador, 🇦🇷 Grenada,🇬🇩 and Panama,🇵🇦 in the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the siege,💥 of the primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec capital city,🏙 of Tenochtitlan of the primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec Mexico,🇲🇽 in the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration, 🔭 of the new world,🗺 of the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred fifty-three?"
so we dont know how many of them had armor :(
do we know it for other infantrys of that time?
"What do you mean?"
Thanks for doing this. Having more data on incomplete armors is great. As the image at 0:10 indicates, well-armored 16th-century infantry would often have tassets to protect the thighs. The arm protection might also be somewhat more comprehensive than in this video, & backplates were common. Circa 1500, Paul Dolnstein wrote that he & his fellows (1,800 Germans) all had breastplates, backplates, helmets, & arm braces. Dolnstein sketch shows tassets that cover a little more than half the thigh. Some infantry might have even more armor, at least if their captains could get them to wear it. Ideally, Raimond de Fourquevaux wanted all regular pikers to wear three-quarters harness plus mail hose, with a helmet with a sight almost covered. He noted that the standard practice of the mid 16th century was for the first few ranks to have the best men in the best armor, with the rest almost as an afterthought. His pikers additionally all had shields on their backs to swing down for the melee, & Fourquevaux instructed that pikers turn targetiers only thrust at uncovered targets like the face & legs (assuming opposing pikers would have less armor, as was the standard practice). Earlier, Niccolò Machiavelli, whom Fourquevaux drew on heavily, did claim most Swiss/German infantry had little armor. Later 16th-century manuals generally call for half or three-quarters harness for at least some pikers.
Lovely overview. I haven't really dived into French sources as you have, but on the whole I agree that this seems to have been the case in a lot of places. I remember similar descriptions of Italian practices for instance. In order to be fully armoured enough for Dolnstein's liking, I should indeed get a little more gear. I'm currently still fiddling with the tassets that come with my cuirass to make them comfortable and I would like to get a backplate in due time as well. :)
That's really interesting, do you have an English translation of Raimond de Fourquevaux? I've only found French digital copies, and unfortunately I'm [currently] mono-lingual.
@@warshawn Yes. There's the 1589 translation that's incorrectly attributed to Monsieur William de Bellay.
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 Thank you! I will look for that name as well.
"By the way, would the late 15th century to early 16th century renaissance,🎨👤 Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ worn by the Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenaries payed,🪙 💵 by King,🤴 Charles the fifth of Granada Habsburg Spain,🇪🇸 to explore,🔭 the new world,🗺 with Hernan Cortez, Pedro de Alvarado, Cristobal de Olid, and Bernal Diaz, the Habsburg Spanish,🇪🇸 Conquistadors on horseback of an English,🏴 standard thoroughbred horses,🐴 wearing Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ for protection from the primitive Stone,🪨 age to early Bronze,🥉age ancient mesoamerican indigenous Mexican,🇲🇽 poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 weapons,🔫 of the Aztecs, Mayans, Toltecs, Mixtecs, Olmecs, and Zapotecs, of Mexico,🇲🇽 Nicaragua,🇳🇮 and Panama,🇵🇦 in the year of fifteen hundred nineteen to the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration,🔭 christianization,💒☦☧ colonization,🗺 and conquest of the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉age ancient mesoamerican indigenous Mexican,🇲🇽 and South american,🌎 jungles,🌴 empires and tribes of the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉age new world,🗺 in the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred seventy-two?"
Good video.
" How effective is armour? " We get this a lot in living history/reenactment.
As always it's a balancing act in the compromising game
) Protection
) Mobility
) Sensory input
) Economics
) Survivability outside of combat
Just to name a few.
Yeah, that question is indeed too simple. There's so many factors. I really love exploring the half armour because you know a very fine line of protection and practicality is being walked. :D
Legs in general are a hard target to hit just due to simple geometry as they're further away from your sword than the opponent's head. And any strike to the legs generally opens you up because of that. I don't believe the slip is used in medieval and very early modern sources (I don't study any too in depth from that period) but in the 1700s-1800s the leg slip is used to defend against leg strikes and is very strong
The leg slip is not really used around 1500 IIRC. It becomes super hard to do well on shoes such as these, since you have little traction to begin with. Closest we get is a double step, or similar action, where you gather up either the front leg to the rear or the rear leg to the front. Lecküchner has this and I think Bolognese sources might have something similar. But we also have to keep in mind that these were not necessarily only meant for battlefield use.
The German tradition deals with this by keeping an almost constant threat of a centerline thrust, meaning that any attempt to go down should in theory always fail. Leg shots, are indeed somewhat difficult to really pull of if the opponent is constantly seeking a bind.
Cool, I wonder if both fighters using a heavier messer would change things up, even if one is unarmored, then that lessens that speed advantage? Also, wonder if there're ways to more actively use the armor to help techniques, say closing to grappling more? Kinda like those Leckucher techniques in which you grab the sword close to the body. Maybe that outside arm protection would help when initially wrapping the arm around the blade. Good stuff...
I definitely think that wearing armour makes some of the gewappnet hand plays from Lecküchner more viable. There's a few plays in Messer Nemen, that make very little sense if you don't have armour on your forearms. I'll get to those eventually. :)
Clear demonstration that half-armor works perfectly and gives a total advantage in fight. Does not constrain movements and allows you to move almost as fast as without armor. The level of in combat protection is still very high. Great demonstration. 👍👍
Thanks! I was really happy with results here, as it confirmed some suspicions I had. :D
Very nice experiment!!!
Thanks! :D
I did this myself once, with just a fully enclosed helmet and gauntlets. I got more hits on those protected areas that didn't count as valid hits, allowing me to dominate the duels.
Was quite a fun experience.
Armour: It Just Works!
The reason they didn't wear sabatons and greaves was because they were foot troops expected to march long distances to battle and they were mercenaries not supplied by royal armories and the basics were easier to maintain and btw some did have leg armor in the form of the quad protectors that attached to the curiess in the front (unfortunately I don't know the name of the armor piece)
You may be referring to tassets. But yes. Leg armour has been scientifically proven to be the most tiring part to wear for a combatant on foot. I still like the fact that it also appears as though there wasn't a great need for it either, but that would need a lot more experimentation to say with any certainty.
Thank you! Seeing 3/4 in sparring are rare thing. Absolutely love landsknechts and your video. Pls more of this)
Thanks! There will definitely be more!
Looks like a very practical approach to being light enough for lots of travel (early swiss gewalthaufen could win by mobility) and base armor that allows for mistakes.
Battles lasting for hours without water etc, making mistakes and getting the second chance surely creates confidence.
You see him even in the short sparring already adapting to 'taking a blow' as part of some offensives.
Indeed. You can elect to eat a hit to ensure you can give a better one back. Armour creates options.
Excellent video. It's like football pads & helmets, it keeps things from being worse! Also makes your opponent work harder and lets the wearer to be more confident and aggressive. No lower legs or back because it is vital to reduce weight and preserve mobility. Many period infantry armors have no arm protection but I've found that even in a practice skirmish with pikes your hands and forearms are very vulnerable. Personally I'd like to see more reenactors wear an infantry half armor at least a decent helmet.
Agreed! And I've found that marching with leg armour is utterly atrocious, whereas armouring up the top halve seems to be less bothersome while on the move.
@@VirtualFechtschule Totally agree! I got a nice Landsknecht infantry armor from Valentine back in 2003 (had a back & breast plate and helmet before that). But had to get some gauntlets and a set of vambraces . The tassets ended above the knee and had straps so they didn't move much but probably not worn on a march. I found out quickly that I could cheat in a pike skirmish. Left shoulder forward and just push in.
@@VirtualFechtschule
The ergonomics as such that with the leg plates, it's a bit like climbing stairs constantly right? Because every motion is pulling against additional inertial, you expend more effort. Fast movements make this worse.
With upper vest and arms armor, it's all relatively holding still. Storming a staircase or some grade will suck still, but on flat ground, you can get pretty far.
@@mikelewis7405
hehehe
steel go donk
@@sunrisejackdaw1779 exactly!
watching you do your drills is so impressive. such fluid movements your really skilled mate
Thank you! :)
Awesome video, very informative.
When you think about it, half armor is still somewhat being used in modern combat. Although it's now optimized for hot lead and environmental hazards than cold steel.
Come to think of it, that makes a lot of sense indeed. :)
This is fantastic! I’ve always wanted to know more about combat in half armour like this so this was so insightful, I look forward to more! Also the whole armour looks great!
One question I have is how armour affects grappling and wrestling techniques. Especially if only one of you is armoured. Does it make it any easier or harder to control an opponent?
Thanks! I haven't tried a lot of grappling in armour yet, but I have found that it does make it slightly easier to control an opponent. Your receptivity to touch input is obviously lowered, meaning it's harder to twist out of certain locks instinctively. :)
What a cool video! It was especially interesting to see how much the armor on the arms and hands came into play, as well as the situations where the armor would protect you while letting a double hit or afterblow take out the opponent.
Exactly! This is what surprised me the most about this. I really enjoyed getting this new insight from sparring bouts such as this one. :)
been loving your vids, I am also fascinated in learning more about Landsknecht! I wish you the best of luck in your research, for both our sakes lol
God i love this vid and your work :D
And your hardware. Awesome.
Cool stuff!
My experience with leg armor as a foot soldier comes down to: it freaking sucks to walk any significant distance with leg armor; that coupled with it being targeted less often and less fatally makes it the last to be equipped.
Also, I’ve watched a documentary once that the suction from sabatons and greaves sink into thick mud increases your likihood of tripping exponentially, so in some cases, lower legs armor can flipping kill you. I think it was a agincourt documentary, but those are almost always dodgy.
really cool!
Go on a campaign covering 100’s of kilometers and you will get rid of the items that aren’t necessary.
When Henry V’s men went into France they quickly started discarding any extra armor.
For the foot soldaten they carry everything on their backs.
Bardzo fajny materiał miło się oglądało :)
Dziekuje bardzo! :D
This is cool experiment. Maybe I will do it some day too :3 Also tournament or fechtschule were everyone may have some piece of armour could be cool context to experience and think about.
There was some sort of notion of the Fechtschule rules of the 15th century having rules that simulated armoured fighting to some extent, but I'm not sure what that was based on. I'll ask around a bit to see if I can track that reference down. :)
Great video. I have always been interested in historical martial martial arts but as of yet. Not dipped my toes into it.
You totally should. It's a lot of fun! :D
This is nice
Wow, excelent video. The breast plate looks more like gotic riding breast plate, than lansknecht one.
Thanks! The breastplate is from +/- 1500, being of a design that was pretty common in Germany and the low countries for mass-produced armour (so pretty suitable for early Landsknechte, I would say). The typical fluted Maximilian style is slightly later, from 1515 onwards.
@@VirtualFechtschule Thanks for info. And for drill ideas. Im member of landsknecht pikeneers and your videos are inspiring for everyone in my unit.
@@unibsmithm7518 that's really nice to hear! Enjoy and send them my regards! :D
@@unibsmithm7518 : In Landsknecht era, in contast to now, the equipment of a mercenary was not so often paid by the mercenaries employer. There really had been men, who came with no equipment, no training and no experience. These men got equipment by mercenary leader, they had been trained, but with cheapest equipment, in this case with pikes as main weapons, but their pay was low. Mercenaries who came with own equipment, especially when they had been Trainer vor expierienced, got more pay. And a man with musket got more pay than a pikeman, a horseman more than a footman ... This footmen, coming with own armour used, what they could buy ( often old or cheap), captured armour from dead enemies, not a compete suit of armour, transformed pieces ... So everthing was possible. And, that once pikemen had lowest pay, is the reason for a german saying: Er hat seinen Beruf von der Pike auf gelernt./ about: He learned his job from the pike upwards or he started his job with the pike.
"By the way, would the late 15th century to early 16th century renaissance,🎨👤 Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ worn by the Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenaries on horseback,🏇 an English,🏴 standard thoroughbred horses,🐴 wearing Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ for protection from the primitive Stone,🪨 age to early Bronze,🥉age ancient Aztec weapons,🔫 such as the poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 arrowheads,➡ on wooden feathery end,🔚 arrows,➡ fired,🔥 from the primitive stone,🪨 age ancient aztec longbow,🏹 loaded with the deer,🦌skin quiver,😖 alongside the poison,☠️ tipped obsidian and flint rock,🪨 arrowheads,➡ on a long wooden dart,🎯 with a feathery end,🔚 thrown from a wooden spearthrower called an Atlatl spear thrower alongside the poison,☠️ tipped wooden feathery end,🔚 darts,🎯 blown,🐡 out of the wooden blow, 🌬 gun,🔫 and clay balls,⚽ made of stone,🪨 obsidian and flint rock,🪨 thrown from a string made sling used by the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉 age ancient Aztec jaguar,🐆 and eagle,🦅 warriors alongside the coyote,🐺 warrior priests of primitive Stone,🪨 age to early Bronze,🥉age ancient Aztec Mexico,🇲🇽 in the year of fifteen hundred nineteen to the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration,🔭 christianization,💒☦☧ colonization,🗺 and conquest of the primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉 age ancient mesoamerican indigenous empires, tribes, and the jungles,🌴 of the new world,🗺 in the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred seventy-two?"
Would be interesting to expand this into group fighting with more "battlefield" weapons like halberds and pikes. That's one area I've found the more historical Larp events to be a good testing ground for, practical applications of armour in a infantrymans role. Finding what coverage is most important whilst retaining the best mobility and functionality for the role.
Doing more group combat related work is definitely on the cards for the future. :D
This may be an anachronistic question but, how would a landsknecht in half armour fair against someone in full harness?
Good question and not anachronistic since there were still fully armoured knights on the battlefield in the 16th century!
[Mild spoiler for coming video] it makes a world of difference. When using armoured fighting techniques. The half armour is great against normal types of fighting, but when someone starts using armoured fighting techniques, the gaps are really easy to find. With a proper full armour, those gaps are fewer and smaller.
@@VirtualFechtschule I'm excited for that video already 😤
@@MansMan42069 A few weeks I think! :)
"By the way, would the late 15th century to early 16th century renaissance,🎨 👤 Southern German,🇩🇪 Landsknecht mercenaries on horseback,🏇 of an English,🏴 standard thoroughbred horse,🐴 wearing Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,🔗⛓ protect them from the inferior primitive Stone,🪨 age and early Bronze,🥉age ancient mesoamerican indigenous Mexican,🇲🇽 obsidian and flint rock,🪨 bladed,🔪 edge wooden weapons,🔫 of the primitive stone,🪨 age ancient Aztec jaguar, 🐆 and eagle,🦅 warriors alongside the coyote,🐺 warrior priests of primitive Stone,🪨 age ancient Mexico,🇲🇽 in the year of fifteen hundred nineteen to the year of fifteen hundred twenty-one, during the age of exploration,🔭 of the new world,🗺 of America,🌎 🇺🇸 in the year of fourteen hundred ninety-two to the year of fifteen hundred fifty-three?"
fantastic video-wokr! )
Armored fighting does indeed chancing things I'm talking from expierence. My armor is a full armor though and from expierence I can tell you the parts that chance how you fight the most would be the gauntlets, the helmet, the padding underneat it all, the spaulders or pauldrens and the cuiras or brigendine. The gauntlets are very logical why they chance things cause they would chance how you hold a weapon and it will be heavyer to swing your weapon, the helmet is less logical but a full faced or half faced helmet actuely effect breathing and sight a lot sow you have to adept to that, pauldrens or spaulders limit your arm mobility the most of everything cause you can no longer lift your arms above your head propperly, padding is hot need I say more 😅 and your cuiras will be heavy and effect you that way, but will also force you to use your arms slightly different when crossing them cause you will no longer be able to place your ellebow's over eachother. Apart from those pieces the rest won't effect you at all aside from making your body slightly heavyer in my expierence. If you do hema it's worth buying armor cause it will give you a new found respect for knights and a insight on how armor effects the body.
Anyone with experience knows this I think, but I think the general public doesn't know that yet unfortunately. :)
@@VirtualFechtschule true that's why I'm kind of also pointing it out, plus you can only truely understand it by trying it. 😇 sow maby people that don't yet have expierence in armor might try it after hearing how different it is. Confermation from others with expierence can only help right? 😉
you'll probably find that if you stopped trying to do this rigid landsknecht kata thing and actually move a bit more freely you'll win more of those sparring fights
Did you recognize, that he is almost never really engaging you, but instead teasing you with some kind of attacks, until you come into his playground were he strikes you, when you are in the middle of your movement?
Yes. That is basically what Tijmen is really good at. The shoes really didn't work so well on that floor, so I had very little I could do against that, but then I find fencing him a good challenge on my best days.
From many of the drawings people have massive calves. I don’t think that was a stylistic exaggeration. I think it’s a clue to their fighting style. There is a boxer named Manny Pacquiao who also has big calves and his style is very “in and out”. There are boxers who have hulking upper bodies but skinny calves and they are not as mobile. I think the landsknechts style must have involved lots of “in and out” attacks and they were very mobile moving back and forth and side to side.
That's an interesting take and there might be something to it. I think that 'in and out' fighting is part of most styles, but we do see more of it as the 16th century progresses. Earlier styles do have a tendency to keep moving forward instead. This may have to do with that being easier with their footwear, but an equally logical explanation is that most earlier sources needed techniques to synchronise with horseback fighting techniques (where you tend to keep moving forward as well).
It was super interesting to see how effective half armour is. How much did that armor set up cost ?
I know right! I was really happily surprised. Costwise it would be difficult to estimate, because there's some DIY involved, but if you have it made fully, it should set you back around 1500 euro I guess (although it could be less or waaay more, depending on what quality and style you're after).
Oskar, do you remember the name of the painting you showed at the beginning of the video?
That would be 'het beleg van Rhenen', in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. :)
@@VirtualFechtschule Thanks!
@@turbografx16 You're welcome!
Where is the back plate?
As of yet only existing on my wishlist. I might be able to scrape together another round of armour upgrades in the future, but for now, this is it.
Either they have slowed this video/ there fighting style down or both these individual are realy quite inexperienced
I was thinking the same thing, but if you look at videos like this you can see that Oskar is capable of some pretty crisp fencing. I think the relative slowness here is a concession to gear more than lack of ability.
I disagree. Watching their technique they’re very technical. I’ve done a lot of dusack fencing and what I’m seeing is a lot of baiting and nachreisen. Oskar is wearing armour which would feel very different to “normal” hema gear so it’s natural that he’d be moving differently.
This is making me miss fencing though, I’ve had to take a break for over a year because of COVID.