Check out this amazing document made by TheShero covering the probability: docs.google.com/document/d/1RiY2gZGopzrQ3dAFr2cZGXGD1L3LwvOPPftUyYFlfwY/edit?usp=sharing Small FAQ of things I forgot or should mention regarding this video, Should be added too overtime. What about buying costumes with mints? I'll be totally honest and I couldn't find them after specifically looking for them. These are still extremely limited by plant, but more of these would partially help balance out mints. Maybe. But Mini Plants need to be worth something, lawn marigold has been 999 gems for so long! Yes but lawn marigold was never advertised heavily, and miniplants are very unachievable to the vast majority of players. An alternative would be handing them out for achievements. But your biased? Why should I care? While I am against Eclise Alpha in general (tried/trying to pass off my idea as their own) I try to keep these videos informative. Try looking into my sources as well if you are desperate to know for yourself.
The fact that Goodpea would add such an RNG focused mechanic and at the same time refuse to add Dr. Zomboss fights due to a similar reason is kind of hypocritical, NGL.
Why no video 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
@@thepersonwhoasked9475 that is still an absurd amount of coins,plus each miniplant has 9 levels and each level requires a packet to level up I am referring to that.
@@frostwinter8775 999 Gems is an absurd cost for placeable Marigolds. Who's gotten THOSE things at 1-7 just because they payed money for it? More importantly, who's really chosen to save up for Marigolds over Imitater? It's better to treat Mini-Plants as optional decoration, just like Marigolds.
We are. That doesn't change anything in this video, this video doesn't assume that they are, or aren't, useful. The difference here is that marigold costs only gems and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Mints on the other hand have all the issue outlined in the video.
@@Creeps20 ...Okay, y'know what? I was an idiot when I made that earlier comment, blinded by all of Part 1 being good so far (in my experience playing). Honestly...I'd kinda be fine with 10-10 being the end of the campaign, wrapping it up w/some kinda boss or smth. Anyways...Watching the video after setting aside the fanboy inside me has made it clear that the way Mints were handled was a bad thing. How I quit Genshin after 3 days of playing it, and grew up in the age of garbage gambling games and DIDN'T notice this immediately is beyond me. (Prolly because I didn't update to the version of Eclise that has the Mint gambling and stuff). ...Honestly, it's real easy to sound like an idiot in hindsight, and it concerns me how some people will refuse to look back on their crap, unlike I've been doing recently. IE: Blind supporters of garbage gambling practices such as Mints and Mobile Games in general.
Thanks for bringing up a general issue i feel has become more and more prevalent in game design, morality in games has been declining in exchange for psychological affects or as you called it downright predatory. This was a neat watch and well edited too :D
tbh not all games are like that. i made a game and it has no ads or in app purchases, no wasting time or anything. i literally make nothing from it, and that doesn't stop me from having on the google play store. (not saying the name of it so don't say im self promoting)
As of writing this comment, I haven't finished gotten watching the video fully but a few days ago, someone else and I in another server were briefly discussing about the mini-plants and gambling, eventually the mints too. I feel like the whole concept of mints, as well as grinding in a mod that doesn't need such is just a hastily made concept to "add more replayability" to the game. All the side content like Adventure Extra, Plant Quests, Veteran Levels, Community Levels and mini-games, perhaps Hard Mode too if it wasn't too stressful than fun, adds whole lot of post-game content to do, boom, there's your replayability. I can't find the tweet anymore or the entire post regarding replayability in video games, but I remember it saying that sometimes, when you beat a game, you beat the game and that's enough, there's no need to add grinding (or any other mechanic) for the illusion to keep playing more.
The whole gambling crap was introduced in gt000 ages ago and even back then people complained about it Now gp2 moved it to eclipse for the sake of "replayability" which is bullshit since now the reward of this gambling isnt even worth it The literal translation of what he says is "Gamble 9 years to win useless plants" and the worst part is that he says that they are useless not we which further proves that the whole thing was intentional just to gain some fame
Mini sunflower: is useful in sun related level. Mini peashooter: is useful in dark ages. Mini snowpea: is useful at chilling zombies. Mini potatomine: is useful for kiling basic zombie if plants isn't ready yet.
@@DontCheddarTheCheese Hard agree, the fact that it only reaches 4 tiles forward hinders it SO much. I know they're mostly cosmetic plants but the mini snow pea is a step behind the rest The 0 damage and short chill isn't that bad imo since it's pretty much on par as crystal shroom
@@romain7102 sun-shroom/t3 sunflower > minisun even in "don't spend more than x sun" levels we already have puff-shroom for night, i don't see why you need a weaker copy of it despite having longer range minisnow would be decent if it ACTUALLY damages zombies and/or have long range minimine is useful at the *very* early game where only basics and imps spawn, which is like, on early levels....but then we have to grind for them...
The Mint's main use are to buy costumes and collect cute stuff that's not supposed to help you win the level. It's similar to getting Lawn Marigold that is only used for flexing and decoration.
Even so, the ways you get said things are inherrenty super problematic. Hell, there is literally a quest around mini plants, its not at all the same case of lawn marigold.
Amazing video, man, I loved Eclise beta, but now this is just bs, I hope they credit your cannonball idea and apply this criticism, but I don't think they will. It's Shallow time then By the way, I loved this video and I'm looking forward if you decide to do more on this style!
Undying Nightmare's gimmicks remind me of Arena and Penny's Pursuit due to the fact that zombies are 6 times tougher have have 1.2x the eat DPS of normal. I'll try and see if it's actually good.
Mini plants weren't useless, and that's why the mint gacha feels problamatic to me. I could use Mini sunflowers and few Gold leaves in addition to normal sun production, hence being able to plant expensive powerhouses by moving them around with Escape root. Now that l deleted the game, l feel reluctant to reinstall it because that kind of fun isn't guaranteed.
How the hell did the vanilla version of the game manage to do mints better? There’s still the fomo behind the rotation of mints to be bought, but damn this is literally just gambling
While I haven't played Eclise, These tactics are very similar to a bunch of games that were considered so problematic the government stepped in. Here any gambling that can be expressed in real world prices is heavily regulated And something as predatory as this would sooner get a law change mid trial than be allowed to be distributed as normal, once it gets to the right people. Much like what they did when they cracked down on lootboxes and gatcha games.
Something else to mention on the ethics of making something like this in a game. The fact that anything is even there is what drives the incentive for someone to want it, whether they know what it actually is or not. To uninformed players' perception, the Mini Plants could have very well been powerful, due to how they were presented in the shop with a rather high price of a rare currency. But, when that player discovers how virtually useless these things are after buying them, it breaks the player's trust in the system, which will inevitably result in someone never playing it again. Eclise just seems like it was made to waste the player's time, while claiming it as a "challenge." Difficulty for difficulty's sake without proper balancing is exactly how you shouldn't make a game.
You should always reward a player for their time, typically by giving obscene time based rewards. For cosmetics only, no actual tools. Otherwise if you're going to take more time you need to continue the game cycle by interacting with the loop which in turn means either more cosmetics or more tools but if you offer too many tools you will collapse the game. It isn't an MP game nor a Single Player game with a traditional post game which ups the challenge to the extreme for those who want to master or see how deep the system can go. Trying to get people to invest this time into PvZ is stupid. They will do it of their own accord if they enjoy the game. To try to force it will drive them away. PvZ is too casual of a design to benefit in a healthy way from investment without making a predatory or manipulative system.
Sooooooo, mints are the equivalent to invocation tokens in Cookie Run(if you play the game that is) which is incredibly stupid as it's just a type of gacha that you have to grind to even HAVE A CHANCE at a plant that is near useless. Wow
another for cookie run kingdom. in my opinion their gacha isn't really that bad. you just need to seriously saving up. like. I hate people because they don't know the truth that Diamond is not everything. yes, it is very good. but is not the main part of the game. is the Gacha, they still balanced since seriously ANCIENT OR LEGENDARY is not everything. they are great very good but In my opinion, as long as the cookie leveled up correctly they still end up pretty overpowered. also like the limited event mentioned in the video. this also applies to the new cookie, arena, event, and others. Not like everyone else. The reason why I didn't really like Devsister was not because of the "no code" but because of how fast the event are.
(Feel free to correct me on this) I find it very gross that it feels like the only reason they do this anymore is for money and scam people who don’t know better. Who knows it may not be that way and they really think their product is “finished”. But it *feels* that way. It’s very sad to see such an important part of pvz2 modding go this low. Great vid creeps. See ya round’
Cant gp2 make the mini plants cost the same as marigold since theyre both just decorations? Who has the time for grinding a million coins, and the fact that most people playing his mod are kids which will probably wont have time to grind millions of coins
uh if you have time can you work on the update for the shallow mod. i'm not pushing you okay but im kinda enjoying your mod and i want it o have more levels :)
And people still say "eclise is so good its a masterpiece pvz 2 is trash dont play it" The eclise stans even tried to make wolfy playz play eclise and not normal pvz2 and i really dont like that this game is not only recommended to casuals without a warning that its very difficult and not for casuals but it also has a trash community that will make any excuse to defend Eclise and goodpea2 Atleast pvz2 doesnt have a trash community and says itself to be a game for casuals and it does actually have casual difficulty instead of nightmare very hard mode+++++ or something The worst thing is:i can compare eclise stans to pvz zombies They protect their place and boss (eclise and goodpea2) They attack other places (pvz videos and comment sections) They try to make you into one of them (telling people that eclise is better than pvz 2 and pvz1) If you break the newspaper,they will get angry(the newspaper is the comment section,the eclise stan is writing on it,breaking it is when you comment about hating eclise)
You are right! Of course, those Eclise stans are horrible and it's get annoying when they forces you to play Eclise even if you said that you aren't interested or not wanting to play this mod.
I mean, I agree something like this is a bit predatory, considering that PvZ2 basically has such systems rooted to its very core (fear of missing out is basically the bread and butter of its monetization-why do you think plants are usually only available a week?), can't really expect too much on that front.
@@theguy5855 That video was talking about the beta one. Somehow, the modder discontinued it and started from scratch with alpha. And also that alpha just got discontinued hours ago, along with his other mod GT000. If you want to know what happened, just search for the whole thing since youtube deleted every reply that I sent to you at the moment.
@@theguy5855 One of the issues was alpha being way more harder and super specific with the plants to use compared to beta, which I had tried before and is already not for casuals. Then there was charging for the rainbow marigold cosmetics behind Patreon. Also, there are some serious allegations which involve him & the people inside his server.
@@theguy5855 Also, if you look at some of the comment section of the videos that talks about Eclise, you might find shyguymask regretting about his approval of this mod lol
Don't quite understand this whole mess tbh, but from my experience in shitty gacha games, this is like if you made every character in Genshin Impact free (except Dehya) and after actively going out of your way to get primogems (i.e. Exploration doesn't give them anymore, only daily quests) all the ways you can gamble just give you 3 star weapons and Dehyas
Does grinding mints for those mini plant is even worth it? In my point of view No ITS Not worth it at all ITS not like you grind in Penny pursuit where ITS feel rewarding *Kinda because its the original game, In the vanilla grinding feel Shit and yet still rewarding and pointless while in eclise ITS Shit and only pointless no feel of rewarding at all
Hmmm so basically the mints are a problem because you spend them useless plants and a waste of time. I can see why you're upset with this but I don't have a problem with it because I just want to play the mod and have fun. Besides, I don't like grinding nor gambling unless it's for something META and useful. Maybe goodpea can fix the issue by removing the mints entirely or remove the gambling and make mints useful.
The problem with the ethical part would be solved by the minis being sold straight for the most part, though more sources to mints should be added, maybe as a general zombie hunt quest (kill X of any zombie) or whatever. Though a while back I came up with the idea to make the mini plants unlocked for ingame achievements (beating the game, defeating X zombies, beating side modes etc) which seems the best idea to me to get around both.
Bro the minies are one of my favorite types of plants, yes they are designed to be bad but the point of them is hoe you can grt them quickly without occupying space and having some great utilities, ie insta kills if the damage of your plants isnt gonna cut it and for imps, slow for when there are some quick bastards and sunflowers for when you have very limited spaces Plus mints now can be used to buy some plants
Then just don't get them? Like, am I supposed to surprised the guy who also made a different mod specifically made for grinding decided to put some random gacha game rng bs in his game? I do think the mini-plants are certainly lackluster and not worth the time-sink at all, but they're just completely skippable and optional in every way. I understand your points, but I don't get how this is predatory or inhumane at all. As far as I know, the mod maker is not some super villain who feeds off of wasted time or something.
~while they are certainly not a good person~ good people can do bad things, and issues like this should be called out so these forms of problems can be avoided. In reality this video is more so a super specific luck of gacha ethics than anything, GT in many cases suffers the same but for me at least the entirety of that mod IS gacha, where here its gacha unneccessarily if that makes sense, with better ideas being available for their unlock which would still encourage this sort of gameplay (I.E, unlocking them via achievements for beating various content of the game).
@@CuttheropeTutorials he didn't. he really didn't. I'll make an ammendum at some point but in short, they actually debatably make things worse here because of the way they are given.
@@CuttheropeTutorials I think you need to relook at it, its still a 4% chance to unlock a plant, you need 100 to unlock and level a mini plant. In reality its a small passive gain now which, due to implementation, doesn't mean crap. And if mini plants were meme plants, then they A. Wouldn't have an entire quest dedicated to them, B. Wouldn't have 8 videos dedicated to them, C. Wouldn't have been expanded on with Tumble Raid and D. Wouldn't have had mini puffshroom, as that is infact the meme version here. They aren't meme plants. Lawn marigold is what you are thinking of.
Despite listening to all your points, I still disagree. I don't think you can call gambling with an unpurchasable, in-game currency as "predatory." Whether excessively rare drops are good mechanic or not is up to player taste. For example, farming for high end loot/runes in diablo clones (aside from diablo imortal) is perfectly accepted, and generally considered to be what those games are all about. People devote hours and hours of grinding so that they get the huge reward of finally getting that piece they were missing.
Being free doesn't automatically mean something is good with no questions asked. Just because something is entirely free doesn't mean it can't be criticized if it has issues
I can't understand why you label eclise mints unethical. If you think about it there are a shit ton of popular games that are 100 times more unethical that cost money (in the way you explained) that get away with it and yet everyone is disliking a currency that boosts progression in a free game and gets you collector items. Like come one if its a collector item then its not supposed to be accessible to everyone, that just kills the point. Its like complaining why a super hard achivement that I just completed just gives me text as a reward. edit: I still believe that the mini plants are just too unrealistic as a reward, regardless of their intention.
first of all, i don't think "there are worse ones out there so don't complain" is a good argument. Secondly, technically, mini plants are available for everyone, i don't see them as "collector items" just for being hard to get, the point of the video is that grinding for mints wastes too much time of the player for things that are not worth at all, designed to be bad. those limited time events, and those mint missions meant for some forced "replayability" are just not good, i think that if a game wants to be replayable it should be in a creative way that is actually fun, not this grinding boring thing to do :v
@@akaLiiL I agree that "there are worse ones out" is not much of a point. Gp2 himself mentioned mini plants as collector items in his video. And yeah at the end of the day even if you are willing to grind, its not a fun eperience.
@@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer eclise system is not problematic since small plants are just a decoration and they're a lot more powerful plants than them. You don't need them.
@@oneway9460 Yes, I get mini-plants are just a post-game bonus... but creating special hard-to-get currency for them is really out of my understanding.
Im pretty sure if those who have money have the right to do whatever they want with their money and also if they were kids where do they get their money?
Check out this amazing document made by TheShero covering the probability:
docs.google.com/document/d/1RiY2gZGopzrQ3dAFr2cZGXGD1L3LwvOPPftUyYFlfwY/edit?usp=sharing
Small FAQ of things I forgot or should mention regarding this video, Should be added too overtime.
What about buying costumes with mints?
I'll be totally honest and I couldn't find them after specifically looking for them. These are still extremely limited by plant, but more of these would partially help balance out mints. Maybe.
But Mini Plants need to be worth something, lawn marigold has been 999 gems for so long!
Yes but lawn marigold was never advertised heavily, and miniplants are very unachievable to the vast majority of players. An alternative would be handing them out for achievements.
But your biased? Why should I care?
While I am against Eclise Alpha in general (tried/trying to pass off my idea as their own) I try to keep these videos informative. Try looking into my sources as well if you are desperate to know for yourself.
What?? 2 hour ago?
Scheduled video, important to release right.
E
You should pin this comment
And we don't need that much coin. We can just use 7 diamonds and start farming at level 10-8
The fact that Goodpea would add such an RNG focused mechanic and at the same time refuse to add Dr. Zomboss fights due to a similar reason is kind of hypocritical, NGL.
At least Zomboss can give you some sort of accomplishment
@@LimeRaid7 duh? grind thousand is literally all about rng.
Yeah I’ve really enjoyed zomboss fights and I haven’t really seen a mod that manages it well
Similar?!?! I don't know how they're similar, they are both rng based but one is waaaaayyyy worse.
@@LimeRaid7 And he for some reason made G1000 Zomboss not RNG focused.
Welcome to ECLISE! Everything is free, balanced, and you don't have to grind for anything!
Agreed
Still hard for casual's tho
Why no video 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
Best apart is THIS IS ALL FREE!
Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not
Imagine having to spend 27m coins to reliably get all levels of mini plant while they are "useless"
when you can just save up 3m coins to get them all (option in shop that costs 2.990 million coins).
@@thepersonwhoasked9475 that is still an absurd amount of coins,plus each miniplant has 9 levels and each level requires a packet to level up I am referring to that.
@@frostwinter8775 999 Gems is an absurd cost for placeable Marigolds. Who's gotten THOSE things at 1-7 just because they payed money for it? More importantly, who's really chosen to save up for Marigolds over Imitater?
It's better to treat Mini-Plants as optional decoration, just like Marigolds.
We are. That doesn't change anything in this video, this video doesn't assume that they are, or aren't, useful. The difference here is that marigold costs only gems and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Mints on the other hand have all the issue outlined in the video.
@@Creeps20 ...Okay, y'know what? I was an idiot when I made that earlier comment, blinded by all of Part 1 being good so far (in my experience playing).
Honestly...I'd kinda be fine with 10-10 being the end of the campaign, wrapping it up w/some kinda boss or smth.
Anyways...Watching the video after setting aside the fanboy inside me has made it clear that the way Mints were handled was a bad thing. How I quit Genshin after 3 days of playing it, and grew up in the age of garbage gambling games and DIDN'T notice this immediately is beyond me. (Prolly because I didn't update to the version of Eclise that has the Mint gambling and stuff).
...Honestly, it's real easy to sound like an idiot in hindsight, and it concerns me how some people will refuse to look back on their crap, unlike I've been doing recently. IE: Blind supporters of garbage gambling practices such as Mints and Mobile Games in general.
Thanks for bringing up a general issue i feel has become more and more prevalent in game design, morality in games has been declining in exchange for psychological affects or as you called it downright predatory. This was a neat watch and well edited too :D
Always a pleasure.
tbh not all games are like that. i made a game and it has no ads or in app purchases, no wasting time or anything. i literally make nothing from it, and that doesn't stop me from having on the google play store. (not saying the name of it so don't say im self promoting)
@@CuttheropeTutorials can you tell me the name
@@RG_Rizzy reach mommy. By leffenoso.
@@Creeps20 Me Goodp2 Are Making A New Plants For This Mod
As of writing this comment, I haven't finished gotten watching the video fully but a few days ago, someone else and I in another server were briefly discussing about the mini-plants and gambling, eventually the mints too.
I feel like the whole concept of mints, as well as grinding in a mod that doesn't need such is just a hastily made concept to "add more replayability" to the game. All the side content like Adventure Extra, Plant Quests, Veteran Levels, Community Levels and mini-games, perhaps Hard Mode too if it wasn't too stressful than fun, adds whole lot of post-game content to do, boom, there's your replayability.
I can't find the tweet anymore or the entire post regarding replayability in video games, but I remember it saying that sometimes, when you beat a game, you beat the game and that's enough, there's no need to add grinding (or any other mechanic) for the illusion to keep playing more.
Exactly,and gp2 always mention how he wants alpha to be replayable which is just pointless and we now have this kind of stupid grinding system.
This is just a type of gacha at this point
The whole gambling crap was introduced in gt000 ages ago and even back then people complained about it
Now gp2 moved it to eclipse for the sake of "replayability" which is bullshit since now the reward of this gambling isnt even worth it
The literal translation of what he says is "Gamble 9 years to win useless plants"
and the worst part is that he says that they are useless not we which further proves that the whole thing was intentional just to gain some fame
Mini sunflower: is useful in sun related level.
Mini peashooter: is useful in dark ages.
Mini snowpea: is useful at chilling zombies.
Mini potatomine: is useful for kiling basic zombie if plants isn't ready yet.
@@DontCheddarTheCheese Well yes if a horde of zombies incoming but still MS is not garbage
@@DontCheddarTheCheese Hard agree, the fact that it only reaches 4 tiles forward hinders it SO much. I know they're mostly cosmetic plants but the mini snow pea is a step behind the rest
The 0 damage and short chill isn't that bad imo since it's pretty much on par as crystal shroom
@@opossokie oh yea, add the mini levels, which in level 6, have to use em to be blocks to kill zombies with hot potato. Absolute ballsack
@@romain7102 sun-shroom/t3 sunflower > minisun even in "don't spend more than x sun" levels
we already have puff-shroom for night, i don't see why you need a weaker copy of it despite having longer range
minisnow would be decent if it ACTUALLY damages zombies and/or have long range
minimine is useful at the *very* early game where only basics and imps spawn, which is like, on early levels....but then we have to grind for them...
According to my calculation, if we start at 0 of the coin and no luck from the mint gamble, we need approximate at 4000 mint to get the mini plants
The Mint's main use are to buy costumes and collect cute stuff that's not supposed to help you win the level. It's similar to getting Lawn Marigold that is only used for flexing and decoration.
Even so, the ways you get said things are inherrenty super problematic. Hell, there is literally a quest around mini plants, its not at all the same case of lawn marigold.
if cosmetics didn't get people to grind more profit-oriented games wouldn't have them
TF2 WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A WORD WITH YOU
Amazing video, man, I loved Eclise beta, but now this is just bs, I hope they credit your cannonball idea and apply this criticism, but I don't think they will. It's Shallow time then
By the way, I loved this video and I'm looking forward if you decide to do more on this style!
Actually gp2 said it has different execution (cannonball)
0:01 didn’t expect to see this beautiful game here
Very nice video,and the mint usage in the mod feel very much like what gacha games have done for a long time(though in gacha game it much worse)
Unfortunately, gp2 is also the guy who made the PvZ Grind Thousand mod, which just from the title, you can guess how much gambling there is in there.
Game design psychoanalysis has always been a fascination of mine and this did not disappoint
Undying Nightmare's gimmicks remind me of Arena and Penny's Pursuit due to the fact that zombies are 6 times tougher have have 1.2x the eat DPS of normal. I'll try and see if it's actually good.
i thought at one point the mini plants were going to be 100 mints by a secret found before they were even showed
Mini plants weren't useless, and that's why the mint gacha feels problamatic to me.
I could use Mini sunflowers and few Gold leaves in addition to normal sun production, hence being able to plant expensive powerhouses by moving them around with Escape root.
Now that l deleted the game, l feel reluctant to reinstall it because that kind of fun isn't guaranteed.
I think the mod is very well made.
But the Mints accept for the few plants you can buy
are just shit
How the hell did the vanilla version of the game manage to do mints better? There’s still the fomo behind the rotation of mints to be bought, but damn this is literally just gambling
This is really well edited. Swell job
always appreciated
While I haven't played Eclise,
These tactics are very similar to a bunch of games that were considered so problematic the government stepped in.
Here any gambling that can be expressed in real world prices is heavily regulated
And something as predatory as this would sooner get a law change mid trial than be allowed to be distributed as normal, once it gets to the right people.
Much like what they did when they cracked down on lootboxes and gatcha games.
I thought minis where gonna work like the gem plants. But ig not. I don't know why eclise needs a random rng mechanic
Something else to mention on the ethics of making something like this in a game. The fact that anything is even there is what drives the incentive for someone to want it, whether they know what it actually is or not. To uninformed players' perception, the Mini Plants could have very well been powerful, due to how they were presented in the shop with a rather high price of a rare currency. But, when that player discovers how virtually useless these things are after buying them, it breaks the player's trust in the system, which will inevitably result in someone never playing it again.
Eclise just seems like it was made to waste the player's time, while claiming it as a "challenge." Difficulty for difficulty's sake without proper balancing is exactly how you shouldn't make a game.
You should always reward a player for their time, typically by giving obscene time based rewards.
For cosmetics only, no actual tools.
Otherwise if you're going to take more time you need to continue the game cycle by interacting with the loop which in turn means either more cosmetics or more tools but if you offer too many tools you will collapse the game.
It isn't an MP game nor a Single Player game with a traditional post game which ups the challenge to the extreme for those who want to master or see how deep the system can go. Trying to get people to invest this time into PvZ is stupid. They will do it of their own accord if they enjoy the game. To try to force it will drive them away.
PvZ is too casual of a design to benefit in a healthy way from investment without making a predatory or manipulative system.
The mints make vanilla grinding a joke
This looks exactly like Plants Vs Zombies ECLISE, its scary😨
why is it so expensive getting mini plants that are practially useless anyway
Sooooooo, mints are the equivalent to invocation tokens in Cookie Run(if you play the game that is) which is incredibly stupid as it's just a type of gacha that you have to grind to even HAVE A CHANCE at a plant that is near useless. Wow
another for cookie run kingdom. in my opinion their gacha isn't really that bad. you just need to seriously saving up.
like. I hate people because they don't know the truth that Diamond is not everything. yes, it is very good. but is not the main part of the game. is the Gacha, they still balanced since seriously ANCIENT OR LEGENDARY is not everything. they are great very good but In my opinion, as long as the cookie leveled up correctly they still end up pretty overpowered. also like the limited event mentioned in the video. this also applies to the new cookie, arena, event, and others. Not like everyone else. The reason why I didn't really like Devsister was not because of the "no code" but because of how fast the event are.
2:12 Yoooooo
Schmoovin' with no Groovin'
an impossibility
(Feel free to correct me on this)
I find it very gross that it feels like the only reason they do this anymore is for money and scam people who don’t know better. Who knows it may not be that way and they really think their product is “finished”. But it *feels* that way. It’s very sad to see such an important part of pvz2 modding go this low. Great vid creeps. See ya round’
What do you mean by scam people money isn't eclise for free? You just get the latest update early if you donate which is optional
And it's called alpha it's not full release of course it will be incomplete
If you're trying to say to people who buy for this mod is bad then it's like telling them what to do with their money
Why should you care on what they do with their money it's their money
And also correct me if im wrong he doesn't really advertise or force you to buy his mod right?
I told this to goodp2 and he insulted me then banned me :/
90% of gamblers quit right before they win big
-Sun Tzu The Art Of War
Cant gp2 make the mini plants cost the same as marigold since theyre both just decorations? Who has the time for grinding a million coins, and the fact that most people playing his mod are kids which will probably wont have time to grind millions of coins
Lawn Marigold's PF now gives 200 coins
only need about 5000 PF or something equally strange
But isn't the gacha give coins wouldn't it make grinding coins easier?
It gives out like 10k - 25k and you can get a chance to get the mini plant from gacha
Rating: 1/5
Not my favorite mint company because the product only had a 4% chance to taste good.
oh gosh i was so surprised too see my fave roblos game being used in the intro in a game about sentient plants battling crazy zombies, insta like-
Yeah no.
There's no point grinding in a very difficult environment
I just use mint for the coins . I don’t care losing a decoration . Until maybe I got it be pure rng accident
uh if you have time can you work on the update for the shallow mod. i'm not pushing you okay but im kinda enjoying your mod and i want it o have more levels :)
do be what I am currently doing, actually
And people still say "eclise is so good its a masterpiece pvz 2 is trash dont play it"
The eclise stans even tried to make wolfy playz play eclise and not normal pvz2 and i really dont like that this game is not only recommended to casuals without a warning that its very difficult and not for casuals but it also has a trash community that will make any excuse to defend Eclise and goodpea2
Atleast pvz2 doesnt have a trash community and says itself to be a game for casuals and it does actually have casual difficulty instead of nightmare very hard mode+++++ or something
The worst thing is:i can compare eclise stans to pvz zombies
They protect their place and boss (eclise and goodpea2)
They attack other places (pvz videos and comment sections)
They try to make you into one of them (telling people that eclise is better than pvz 2 and pvz1)
If you break the newspaper,they will get angry(the newspaper is the comment section,the eclise stan is writing on it,breaking it is when you comment about hating eclise)
"skill based difficulty = bad" moment
You are right! Of course, those Eclise stans are horrible and it's get annoying when they forces you to play Eclise even if you said that you aren't interested or not wanting to play this mod.
@@linguine4500 i know but still i hate the community for this game
Eclise is still a great mod, but the community and creator are kind of ruining it for me.
@@CoralReaper707 don't hate in the creator, I've talked to them and they're nice.
this is an underrated channel
Fun fact Did you know that in pvz2 you don't have to upgrade and pay to complete the game ?
you do for the arena though
You do. You see, people like to 100% games, and you would be spending hundreds of hours, and dollars, to complete pvz2.
@@CuttheropeTutorials that's ENTIRELY optional
@@DeeDee-yr7yu not in completionist's minds. You see, in their eyes, "completing" the game means 100%ing it
@@CuttheropeTutorials completing pvz2 basically means beating every level in adventure. nothing more than that.
Imagine people use custom lvl to get free mini plants
I like how u add bee swarm over ther it made my day more rather seeing eclise is being weird again
You have a wonderful little british voice
You also have to get an extra mini plant seed pack to tier it up
I mean, I agree something like this is a bit predatory, considering that PvZ2 basically has such systems rooted to its very core (fear of missing out is basically the bread and butter of its monetization-why do you think plants are usually only available a week?), can't really expect too much on that front.
bro made PvZ into the binding of isaac 😭😭😭
Man a lot of people are complaining about this mod and I only saw one guy say good things about it
The outdated one?
@@CuriousNeon apparently yes, i saw shyguymask's video about it and apparently its outdated and I have no clue what went down in this mod soooo
@@theguy5855 That video was talking about the beta one. Somehow, the modder discontinued it and started from scratch with alpha. And also that alpha just got discontinued hours ago, along with his other mod GT000.
If you want to know what happened, just search for the whole thing since youtube deleted every reply that I sent to you at the moment.
@@theguy5855 One of the issues was alpha being way more harder and super specific with the plants to use compared to beta, which I had tried before and is already not for casuals. Then there was charging for the rainbow marigold cosmetics behind Patreon. Also, there are some serious allegations which involve him & the people inside his server.
@@theguy5855 Also, if you look at some of the comment section of the videos that talks about Eclise, you might find shyguymask regretting about his approval of this mod lol
Don't quite understand this whole mess tbh, but from my experience in shitty gacha games, this is like if you made every character in Genshin Impact free (except Dehya) and after actively going out of your way to get primogems (i.e. Exploration doesn't give them anymore, only daily quests) all the ways you can gamble just give you 3 star weapons and Dehyas
Ayo Rhythm Heaven music? Based
Does grinding mints for those mini plant is even worth it? In my point of view No ITS Not worth it at all ITS not like you grind in Penny pursuit where ITS feel rewarding *Kinda because its the original game, In the vanilla grinding feel Shit and yet still rewarding and pointless while in eclise ITS Shit and only pointless no feel of rewarding at all
Ok so I was just using this as background noise and then as soon as I heard Rhythm Heaven Fever Remix 5 OST I kinda popped off lmao
Hmmm so basically the mints are a problem because you spend them useless plants and a waste of time. I can see why you're upset with this but I don't have a problem with it because I just want to play the mod and have fun. Besides, I don't like grinding nor gambling unless it's for something META and useful. Maybe goodpea can fix the issue by removing the mints entirely or remove the gambling and make mints useful.
The problem with the ethical part would be solved by the minis being sold straight for the most part, though more sources to mints should be added, maybe as a general zombie hunt quest (kill X of any zombie) or whatever. Though a while back I came up with the idea to make the mini plants unlocked for ingame achievements (beating the game, defeating X zombies, beating side modes etc) which seems the best idea to me to get around both.
Since my profile picture is just a T. rex head, my hand will probably just get chomped off so I don’t really trust it at all
It got a lil' hard to hear what you were saying at times, do you have a script/transcript of this you could share?
Bro the minies are one of my favorite types of plants, yes they are designed to be bad but the point of them is hoe you can grt them quickly without occupying space and having some great utilities, ie insta kills if the damage of your plants isnt gonna cut it and for imps, slow for when there are some quick bastards and sunflowers for when you have very limited spaces
Plus mints now can be used to buy some plants
Idk if this is a coincidence but i pro at bss(bee swarm simulator)
I have full blue hive and tide popper
Who came from his most recent video?
Subbed
Then just don't get them? Like, am I supposed to surprised the guy who also made a different mod specifically made for grinding decided to put some random gacha game rng bs in his game?
I do think the mini-plants are certainly lackluster and not worth the time-sink at all, but they're just completely skippable and optional in every way.
I understand your points, but I don't get how this is predatory or inhumane at all. As far as I know, the mod maker is not some super villain who feeds off of wasted time or something.
~while they are certainly not a good person~ good people can do bad things, and issues like this should be called out so these forms of problems can be avoided.
In reality this video is more so a super specific luck of gacha ethics than anything, GT in many cases suffers the same but for me at least the entirety of that mod IS gacha, where here its gacha unneccessarily if that makes sense, with better ideas being available for their unlock which would still encourage this sort of gameplay (I.E, unlocking them via achievements for beating various content of the game).
@@Creeps20 I agree, the rng in gt is fun, but eclise doesn't need that. Although goodpea2 did balance the mints now.
@@CuttheropeTutorials he didn't. he really didn't. I'll make an ammendum at some point but in short, they actually debatably make things worse here because of the way they are given.
@@Creeps20 no, the newest update fixed it. now it isnt 4% chance its still rng. also mini plants are just meme plants
@@CuttheropeTutorials I think you need to relook at it, its still a 4% chance to unlock a plant, you need 100 to unlock and level a mini plant. In reality its a small passive gain now which, due to implementation, doesn't mean crap.
And if mini plants were meme plants, then they A. Wouldn't have an entire quest dedicated to them, B. Wouldn't have 8 videos dedicated to them, C. Wouldn't have been expanded on with Tumble Raid and D. Wouldn't have had mini puffshroom, as that is infact the meme version here.
They aren't meme plants. Lawn marigold is what you are thinking of.
You are talking way too quickly, even the subtitles cant catch up
i agree, although he’s worked on it recently!
i was looking for a good youtube video that i could vibe to while boosting in bee swarm, and you start off with bee swarm lol
Bruh the mini plants are just the vines but worse,
Despite listening to all your points, I still disagree. I don't think you can call gambling with an unpurchasable, in-game currency as "predatory."
Whether excessively rare drops are good mechanic or not is up to player taste. For example, farming for high end loot/runes in diablo clones (aside from diablo imortal) is perfectly accepted, and generally considered to be what those games are all about. People devote hours and hours of grinding so that they get the huge reward of finally getting that piece they were missing.
Right away I see BSS and I was surprised lol
Got any mod recommendations? I was only aware of goodpeas stuff until recently
ooo, steam ages music
Wow Remix 5 Fever music
I got the 100 packet reward on my second try (mini peashooter)
Right!
Battle Cats Fans: "First Time?"
I don't know why people here hate the mod so badly. Man, it's completely free, no ads nor microtransaction in the game
Being free doesn’t mean anything
Being free doesn't automatically mean something is good with no questions asked.
Just because something is entirely free doesn't mean it can't be criticized if it has issues
RGB marigold
Wow you play bss
Tl;Dr
Mints are basically pointless and coins and gems should have stayed as the main currency
I can't understand why you label eclise mints unethical. If you think about it there are a shit ton of popular games that are 100 times more unethical that cost money (in the way you explained) that get away with it and yet everyone is disliking a currency that boosts progression in a free game and gets you collector items. Like come one if its a collector item then its not supposed to be accessible to everyone, that just kills the point. Its like complaining why a super hard achivement that I just completed just gives me text as a reward.
edit: I still believe that the mini plants are just too unrealistic as a reward, regardless of their intention.
first of all, i don't think "there are worse ones out there so don't complain" is a good argument.
Secondly, technically, mini plants are available for everyone, i don't see them as "collector items" just for being hard to get, the point of the video is that grinding for mints wastes too much time of the player for things that are not worth at all, designed to be bad. those limited time events, and those mint missions meant for some forced "replayability" are just not good, i think that if a game wants to be replayable it should be in a creative way that is actually fun, not this grinding boring thing to do :v
@@akaLiiL I agree that "there are worse ones out" is not much of a point. Gp2 himself mentioned mini plants as collector items in his video. And yeah at the end of the day even if you are willing to grind, its not a fun eperience.
omg be a swarm scheme acumulator
basicly, mint suck.
10s video les go
Fellow Rhythm Heaven Fever Remix 5 enjoyer spotted?
The only good mini is mini sun
Bee swarm simulator is the kind of game you play roblox for
Bruuuhhhhh just hack the game, is that easy
Sarcastic comment
Yo i love bee swarm simulator
Bro what hive are you in B.S.S.?
Then bulletin board game zombie
bss is cool game
BEE SWARM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just wanted to watch a pvz vid while playing bss and the first thing I see is bee swarm lol
Ok,.
I hate mints
Reflourished: has a grinding grindy gem system
eclipse: has a non problematic system
People: "EcLiPsE HaS a BaD SyStEm EcLiPsE BaD "
Since when Reflourished was grindy? And since when Eclise mint system is "not problematic"?
@@AnonChuck.ObjectShowViewer eclise system is not problematic since small plants are just a decoration and they're a lot more powerful plants than them. You don't need them.
@@oneway9460 Yes, I get mini-plants are just a post-game bonus... but creating special hard-to-get currency for them is really out of my understanding.
Abang
Yay bss bee swarm me favorite game
Bro talk slower I have no idea what your sayin
Basicly he thinks gambling and grinding is stupid.
@@youshouldntaddzombottothisdeck Guys,you obviously gotta add zombot in every mods and even vannila
can you add subtitles to your videos please i cant understand your voice
Bruh
smh just hack the game lol
Im pretty sure if those who have money have the right to do whatever they want with their money and also if they were kids where do they get their money?
It is their right to do what they want with their money and time, thats why abusing psychology is a bad thing.
you talk so fast
i can't even understand you on .75 speed
all this crying and for what?
santiago says while looking in the mirror.
@@DJNeon-C1990 emoji
can you add proper subtitles I can barely understand you