Thanks for another great video. I am a builder of classical guitars and have built with all the species you mentioned. Your assessment is spot on and much needed. Thank you for highlighting the specs for each wood. I also appreciate your mention of other great luthiers who are building with other woods. Your humility shown in mentioning others helps to keep the luthier community focused on building great instruments.
Hey Tom!! Here in Colombia we know that "Colombian rosewood" as "Gradanillo"! beautiful wood. Next week i'll be picking up a granadillo back and sides guitar from a local luthier. I cannot wait because my set looks a lot like yours! Great video as always.
In Brazil is getting hard to find as well but the price is not that crazy yet. We have hundreds of other woods that are as good as Jacarandá (rosewood) like Imbuia, Guajuvira, Loro, Pau Marfim, Grapa, Ipê, Freijó, Roxinho, Pau-ferro, etc.
Your Brazilian Rosewood looks like a set of angel wings! Someday I will go into classy guitar shop in the city and try some of these woods out.. Thank you for posting! Keep up the good work!
There are a lot of woods I could have mentioned but the video would have been hours long 🤣 We’ve actually done a video on pau ferro, it’s a ways back in the archive if you’re interested 🙏
Love this channel. A few years ago, I picked up a 1978 Takamine 12 string. It has a Rosewood back and sides. I can see why Takamine was sued by Martin. It's a beautiful guitar. Even the font on the head stock is the same as Martin.
Thanks for a really cool... deep dive into tone woods... i could hear the Drum Beat Quality as you were tapping the diff woods.... Top Notch!! I have a 10 year old Martin D28 Custom... it plays like a Steinway Piano....they told me its east Indian Rosewood... i just know that it's perfect!!🎶🎵🎶
Some of those alternatives sound very close to Brazilian rosewood. I still have concerns about tropical woods being over harvested. I'd curious to know if there are any temperate zone woods that have similar characteristics to Brazilian rosewood.
It’s a very good point you make. I have some Osage Orange which I got from my buddy Aaron. Surprisingly, I found that Myrtle from the pacific north west US, has a very bell like response. They’re two off the top of my head, I’m sure I can think of more once I finish my morning coffee!
Great video! Ever tried Cypress? Many Flamenco and some Classical use this. The classical luthier Paul Fisher once made 7 guitars with rosewood alternatives and were played by John Mills and judged blind. No one identified the Brazilian Rosewood reference guitar. Apparently the alternative winner was Aruda De’Bolo (Swartzia Fasciata), which looks a lot like Brazilian mahogany. Joint second were kingwood (Dalbergia Cearensis) and brownheart (Ferreira Spectabilis), and princewood (Cordia Trichotoma) came in third.
I have some cypress and would like to try it for steel string. These blind tests are super interesting, our senses are so much more connected than we appreciate when it comes to how we experience a guitar.
I thought my Sunday was going to pass without a video.......but you pulled through 🙂 Thanks as usual for the content Tom. You are killing it as the host of Tommy's Tonewoods!
Using Trevor Gore's thicknessing formula and average values for density and stiffness from the wood database, it appears that Ziricote would be the closest, vibrationally, of the species you list to Brazilian Rosewood or East Indian Rosewood. This formula says 2.44 mm for an average piece of BR, 2.58 for EIR, and 2.50 for Ziricote. Every piece is different, of course, so you have to measure the density and stiffness of the individual piece of wood you have to get a proper thickness.
Sinker Mahogany? Have you felt the recent boom in reclaimed hardwood? I just inspected a 2000 pc inspection and the tap test was unbelievable. Mahogany that has a ceramic resonant quality? It smells like sulfur when sanded but it deserves some credit.
Thank you for this, Tom! When I tap, I like to balance the plate on top of my clavicle bone (or acromion, actually) and hold it upright with a finger - this removes the damping you get when you pinch it between two fingers. Either way works, but my hearing has suffered from the "too much use since new" malady and it works better for me. Cheers!
I could really hear those tones when you tapped! Brazilian Rosewood IS undoubtedly a distinct sounding wood for back and sides of a guitar. I find that the speed of sound (SOS) is a good indicator to use in wood comparison. The SOS per density puts each wood in a category that can be compared to other categories. This is an objective way that woods could be compared to Brazilian Rosewood besides tap tones. Tap tones change with thickness and dimension although I won’t doubt anyones experience.
Great video Tom, I've got a ziricote guitar that's almost ready to be shipped just got my final progress pictures. It's good to see you are a fan of it toneally, I kinda took a punt given that I've never really heard a guitar made with it but I've paired it with a cedar top so hopefully that adds some warmth but I can't wait to hear her 😊
@@dalefuller5507 I’ve owned cocobolo & rosewood guitars but always thought the resonance was from the chamber and not the actual wood. My mind was blown when I saw him do that.
@@TomSandsGuitars The back can be voiced? I've only played a few guitars with ziricote, but it seemed to lack the overtones one would expect with rosewood.
Have you tried or heard of using Lychee wood as tonewood? I only know of hozen from maestro guitars who makes guitars out of lychee, I’m interested to hear your review of it, it supposedly sounds like a brighter cocobolo
fascinating video, lovely sets of wood, i seen some of the prices of them builds you shown 18k etc i guess that a taylor or martin are using cheap versions of these woods ? and also the fact the guitars you guys are building are all hand crafted an that also incrreaes the price a lot or are the woods taylor and martin use the same quality ?
Taylor and Martin are producing hundreds of thousands of instruments per year, we produce 12-15. Economies of scale are a big part of the price disparity, but quality of materials, design and execution, process and customer interaction are the main factor.
Have you ever tried using Ostrya sometimes called Ironwood? There are many varieties worldwide, and I was wondering how a Ostrya fretboard would look and feel llke.
En entrevistas con lutieres mejicanos en RUclips dicen que el palo escrito, que es Dalbergia Paloescrito, no produce tan buenos graves como Dalbergia nigra ni Dalbergia de la India para guitarras clásicas. Cómo mucho sirve para guitarra de estudio. La madera de olivo, que es muy aceitosa no se seca nunca y por tanto no sirve para lutería de guitarras de sonido acústico.
@@TomSandsGuitars I am not sure in your part of the world, they sell it as "rosewood" here in New Zealand. It is mostly used for decking but the best stuff is sold cheaply as seconds because of the dark coloured streaks and figure. My partner is from the Philippines and they call it Narra. It has a distinctive smell when you work it, almost like flowers.
Love your videos tom. Im thinking of commissioning a custom guitar and want something that would pair well with western red cedar. What would you think would pair closest with that Brazilian vibe?
10 litres of magic spray were used in the making of this video 😮 Would love to hear some back to back clips of these woods on your guitars to really get a sense of how they compare to Brazilian rosewood. Tap tones sound really great tho 👍🏻
Miles apart? Not really. And as for different, you’d be hard pressed to come up with another timber more varied than Brazilian rosewood in terms of supply these days. Can’t think I’ve come across two pieces alike even from ‘old stock’ in the last 20 years.
I was wondering if you or someone else can tell me what 'Napfa/Napther' is in Australian English? I hear mainly Americans using that word. I've worked in both heavy industry and lutherie for 43 years and I have never seen a product called that. I was thinking maybe 'Kerosene' or even 'Shellite'?
Ever worked with purpleheart? Would like to hear your opinion about it. Also, olive wood looks quire funky, smells lovely and, on paper, it has very similar mechanical properties to rosewood. I wonder if you have ever worked wit it.
I’ve had some olive wood but nothing big enough to make a guitar with. It does smell amazing! We have some purple heart that I’ll be using for a neck soon!
@@TomSandsGuitars Purple heart for a neck? Never thought about it... I assumed it would be too heavy, but otoh it would definitely be strong! I have made a couple of fretboards with it and it polishes to a very smooth glassy surface, a bit like maple. Either way, I look forward to seeing your build.
@@TomSandsGuitars PS. I think Madinter has some olive wood sets big wnough for a classical guitar. And if you don't use them, you can just sniff them and feel all healthy
@@TomSandsGuitars Well, I bought one such guitar in 2020. So I originally felt as you do. This wood was likely harvested in the 1920s, long before the CITES regulation. But after reading through posts on acoustic guitar forums where people were arguing that anything having to do with Brazilian was unethical I began to think more deeply about it. It's very sad those forests were decimated but the wood was already cut. To me using the wood to make a beautiful instrument that can bring joy to oneself and others is much better than using it for lesser purposes or not at all. I do think it's a good thing there are protections in place for the forests that remain.
@@TomSandsGuitars I know. Just reinforcing your point. In Brazil, I can kill someone and defend myself without being arrested, depending on my case. But if I kill a tree, jail...
Brazilian rosewood is the best wood that you can buy for guitars.. nothing can beat Brazilian rosewood.. I have 3 guitars made of Brazilian rosewood and I can say they are incredible sound.. I say that they easily worth like 5000 euros..
Because i doesnt found lots of information on it thanks for the answer. I think it mostly is used for fretboards in the electric world in the moment maybe its to splintere or bit to hard for bendig sides for a acoustic
Apologies if you already explained it in the video but I jumped around abit. Is there a specific reason you left out Madagascar, Honduran, Guatemalan, Panama, Rosewood out? Which are usually marketed by the larger guitar companies as 'closest' sounding to Brazilian rosewood. Or is that just all marketing kool-aid?
Yes - I didn’t want to include more than one other rosewood species and I think cocobolo is the closest. I love madagascar rosewood but I fear it is all but wiped out. I also wanted to include species which people might not have immediately thought of. Cheers!
not all woods are the same, you can have your different cuts, rift, quarter, flat so forth that may effect tap tone, or just a different type of growth, grown on the side of a hill, flat land, whatever, you can have 2 pieces from the same tree and they can tap differently, just cuz its a certain species is no guarantee its worth using, its a hands on thing really, give it a thump
You must be new here, welcome to the channel! It’s actually nice to have someone recommend I tap on a piece of wood instead of the usual trolls telling me I’m an idiot for waxing lyrical about the nuance of wood. Your might find my Tonewood series interesting 🙏
I am a retired public school custodian. I learned how to build guitars and ukes on youtube. It might come as a surprise to some of you but I never considered Brazilian rosewood for my builds.
@@TomSandsGuitars Save the rare stuff for the big boys. I bought some madagascar rosewood from Stew mac and I have purchased various woods on your recomendations, but my favorite combos all seem to deal with Walnut and Maples and Mahogany.
Why do luthiers use naphtha? Skin contact is dangerous, the fumes burn your eyes, it's volatile, it's flammable...and you work with wood! I hope you have a giant "No Smoking" sign outside your workshop door. Btw, fabulous videos, just subscribed. Thanks for the great content.
I use it to imitate lacquer for a brief period. It doesn’t seem to irritate my skin or my eyes. I prefer it to something like alcohol because it doesn’t pull the oils or moisture from the wood. Thanks for the sub, really appreciate it!!
Feeling blessed that I was blown to your channel and you. If anyone can answer my question (s) it would be you. Have you heard of Arizona Rosewood? (Vauquelinia californica). I’ve just moved back to Arizona and am retiring soon. I have so many questions. Great channel.
Another note: Dalbergia spruciana (AKA Amazon Rosewood) has been passed off as Dalbergia negra for decades.. and none have been the wiser, except those of us who were duped by unscrupulous wood brokers. Some famous bulders swalloed the jello from a couple wood hustlers in Spain. Another con from Mendocino Calif stung me as was a friend and furniture designer, ex Fine Woodworking contributor, trained in Sweden. A sample was sent for analysis and not dalbergia negra as represented but spruciana. Very difficult to tell the difference for most folks. Nothing wrong with spruciana, it is simply not negra, though Brazilian. Would you like to buy a pallet of genuine Bolivian Rosewood ? Or Pernambuco , Hmmm ?
@@TomSandsGuitars That was a joke. There is NO Bolivian Rosewood as we all know. Pernambuco is all but banned. And the junk that is being offered is simply pao brasil, and not the better quality Pernambuco. (the country of Brazil was named after the wood which was harvested and imported in massive quantities for the cloth dying trade in France)
@@TomSandsGuitars Full disclosure... from 1980 to 85 I hustled rare wood for instrument builders .. I had a route from Vancouver Canada to San Diego Calif where I stopped in a builder's shops and offed my stuff. I specialized in Honduras rosewood and Pernambuco as well a some other stuff to include western big leaf maple. I had customers from Japan to Paris stop in at my shop in Santa Cruz Calif. Gave it up and went back to my corporate gig. I still. have quite a bit of wood stashed. I would guess enough for a couple hundred guitars. The only Brazilian rosewood I have is a fantastic set of sides about 40 years old by now, sadly only the sides and maybe 20 bridge blanks. . I also have some killer coco bolo enough for 3 possibly 4 guitars, never seen darker nor better... and lots of other stuff to include 5 different mahoganies and lots of figured maple and so on. Most of what I have is at minimum 30 years old.. been dragging some this stuff around since the 60s. This includes sets of very old, nothing like today's sorry, East Indian. Quite a few billets of Port Orford and Western red cedar for tops, and a few sets of tops in Engelman. (sp) Some is in my small shop, the rest in storage as I sold my property and massive shop and moved "to town". In process of getting permits to put up another shop. Then back to work.
We should share some info. I work for a guitar company in Nazareth Pa. for the last 30 years. Your approach is very similar to mine so let’s talk WOOD. I’m a custom shop wood inspector…yeah! I love my job. Let’s tawk…
Does anybody know why, people don't grow these rare timbers in plantations. Many trees in the Rosewood family grow like weeds. Somebody who planted a half dozen Brazilian trees in 1992 could be coming upon major wealth soon, if they were able to sell it. Maybe legal restrictions remove the incentive from planting it.
@@TomSandsGuitars I suppose my question wasn't clear, and should have been why they don't grow more Brazilian rosewood trees in Brazil. As it's a vast country and currently around 200 million hectares are used for either cattle or soybeans, and they have both increased greatly since 1992. If there was just one Nigra tree per 10 of those hectares that would be 20 million trees. Cows and vegetable oil have done far more to decimate the Brazilian Rosewood population than woodworkers. Instead of making BR illegal to sell in perpetuity, perhaps the government could have encouraged the planting of Rosewood, and placed restrictions on harvesting mature and wild trees. And that would provide more ecologically and economic benefit than an absolute ban. It seems to create a circle of scarcity and an incentive to poach the remaining trees. Poor people living in the styx will be tempted to cut down a million dollar tree, and an official can be bribed into saying it was salvaged or reclaimed or some exception.
There are no shortages. There are only suppressed abundances. Because of the desirability Brazilian rosewood. They could plant an entire tree for every fretboard used. They choose not to do this because of government regulations.
It's actually a pretty easy concept to understand. Let's say you have a guitar maker like Paul Reed Smith that has a giant Financial market for Brazilian rosewood. He files for a permit with the government in Brazil to open a nursery that grows thousands of rosewood trees. The wood is then legally permitted. And the population of Rosewood trees goes up. It's easy to accomplish. You put water and fertilizer and good soil and low and behold the trees grow. That can't be done because what Brazil does. Is they sell land to corporations and they clear away portions of the rainforest and they bring in a lot of Industries like strip mining. And real estate development. And they freely will sell Commodities of land to foreign investors including investors from china. But they will not allow for an ethical sustainable reforestization. Or for nurseries to grow Brazilian rosewood. If we're talking about something like elephant ivory. It's a different game. You can't raise elephants just to harvest their ivory. But you can plant trees there's no reason these trees can't grow other than governments not allowing this to happen. It's okay for them to sell off the rainforest but it's not okay for them to allow nurseries to grow Brazilian rosewood. It's incredibly wrong. And people have bought into this myth that we're doing some service by not buying Brazilian rosewood and coveting it. That's why it's a suppressed abundance.
@@anthonya9472I had a chance to play 2-3 Martins using Madagascar Rosewood and lota of Brazillian Rosewood guitars (Im from Brazil) and Madagascar pretty much have no smell if you compare with our rosewood.
you guys really pay this huge amount of money in brazilian rosewood ? i mean, i'am brazillian, and if you look in pages and apps like shopee or mercado livre you could buy for a decent price and help the local people. the guys that re-sell things in us or uk or idk from where you are reading this message overprice the wood only because just a few brazilians that extract these type of wood know how to speak english. so they can put a status of unique and justify the high price.
@@TomSandsGuitars Yeah, please do. I believe it's plantation grown in Romania and elsewhere under the name "robinia." It's a weed tree here. If you would like a few scraps to tap on, I could probably mail you some. Stiffness and density are very close to Brazilian Rosewood, but nowhere near as pretty. Still it works and looks good under finish. Best wishes of wood success!
The examples you have shown are all, without exception, low end quality. Catalox. "Royal Mexican Ebony" how utterly comical. When banging on the boards you might consider the "nodes". Coco Bolo anywhere from yellow to black. Panama to Mexico. Enough next.
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Thanks for another great video. I am a builder of classical guitars and have built with all the species you mentioned. Your assessment is spot on and much needed. Thank you for highlighting the specs for each wood. I also appreciate your mention of other great luthiers who are building with other woods. Your humility shown in mentioning others helps to keep the luthier community focused on building great instruments.
Thanks so much Shawn, I’m going to try and find your work now. Would love to see what you’ve built!
That crelicam ebony is just amazing looking. I didn't know it existed. Thank you so much for showing it.
Isn’t it something? I just finished a guitar with it and it sounds lovely
No doubt. That looks like a trunk of a very old tree. In Tolkien speak, an Ent. Beautiful.
Hey Tom!! Here in Colombia we know that "Colombian rosewood" as "Gradanillo"! beautiful wood. Next week i'll be picking up a granadillo back and sides guitar from a local luthier. I cannot wait because my set looks a lot like yours! Great video as always.
It took me a little while to figure it out but I’m glad to have this set! Do you know it as ‘coyote’ as well?
Tom! This is my favorite thing you've made yet! I'm editing a video now with Robin Boucher searching through his collection of tonewoods.
Glad ya liked it!
In Brazil is getting hard to find as well but the price is not that crazy yet. We have hundreds of other woods that are as good as Jacarandá (rosewood) like Imbuia, Guajuvira, Loro, Pau Marfim, Grapa, Ipê, Freijó, Roxinho, Pau-ferro, etc.
Would love to try some
Your Brazilian Rosewood looks like a set of angel wings! Someday I will go into classy guitar shop in the city and try some of these woods out.. Thank you for posting! Keep up the good work!
Cheers!
What are your thoughts about Indian Rosewood (Dalbergia Latifolia)?,😊
I'm surprised you didn't mention Pau Ferro, I just got a Cedar and Pau Ferro flamenco guitar and I'm sooo in love with it :)
Great video 🙌
There are a lot of woods I could have mentioned but the video would have been hours long 🤣 We’ve actually done a video on pau ferro, it’s a ways back in the archive if you’re interested 🙏
Pau Ferro is awesome as a fretboard wood. I have a Roscoe Electric guitar with that fretboard wood. It plays amazingly well!
Love this channel. A few years ago, I picked up a 1978 Takamine 12 string. It has a Rosewood back and sides. I can see why Takamine was sued by Martin. It's a beautiful guitar. Even the font on the head stock is the same as Martin.
They were certainly sailing pretty close to the wind with those guitars! Glad you got a good one!
Thanks for a really cool... deep dive into tone woods... i could hear the Drum Beat Quality as you were tapping the diff woods.... Top Notch!! I have a 10 year old Martin D28 Custom... it plays like a Steinway Piano....they told me its east Indian Rosewood... i just know that it's perfect!!🎶🎵🎶
Glad you enjoyed it!
As a wood lover, each installment of TTW is like a movie from my youth that I can watch over and over, always fantastic!
Some of those alternatives sound very close to Brazilian rosewood. I still have concerns about tropical woods being over harvested.
I'd curious to know if there are any temperate zone woods that have similar characteristics to Brazilian rosewood.
It’s a very good point you make. I have some Osage Orange which I got from my buddy Aaron. Surprisingly, I found that Myrtle from the pacific north west US, has a very bell like response. They’re two off the top of my head, I’m sure I can think of more once I finish my morning coffee!
Myrtle is nice to work
No other wood can be Brazilian rosewood.. Brazilian rosewood are the best wood for guitars.. 🎸
Incredibly informative video - thank you so much. I love the mythbusting element also.
Glad it was helpful!
Have you heard about the guitar Summit in Mannheim Germany? Also a big show. Hope to see you there next year!
Maybe one day!
Really looking forward to Tony’s guitars!
Great video! Ever tried Cypress? Many Flamenco and some Classical use this. The classical luthier Paul Fisher once made 7 guitars with rosewood alternatives and were played by John Mills and judged blind. No one identified the Brazilian Rosewood reference guitar. Apparently the alternative winner was Aruda De’Bolo (Swartzia Fasciata), which looks a lot like Brazilian mahogany. Joint second were kingwood (Dalbergia Cearensis) and brownheart (Ferreira Spectabilis), and princewood (Cordia Trichotoma) came in third.
I have some cypress and would like to try it for steel string. These blind tests are super interesting, our senses are so much more connected than we appreciate when it comes to how we experience a guitar.
Amazing video! Forever grateful for the knowledge 🙌🏻🥳
My pleasure!!
Did you ever listen to the tones of the Martin SuperD? Many say the Guat RW sounds awesome. So difficult to pull the trigger in it.
I thought my Sunday was going to pass without a video.......but you pulled through 🙂
Thanks as usual for the content Tom. You are killing it as the host of Tommy's Tonewoods!
Thanks so much Greg!
Wonderful video Tom - really enjoyed it ❤
Cheers dude!
In Malaysia, we call Malaysian Blackwood as "Arang Bunga". Beautiful wood and very dense. It is a type of ebony family.
Is it a protected species? I mean does it come on the purview of CITES?
@@Leonard.J.Mills. No its not a protected wood.
@@syaheer8689 How do I get some?
Using Trevor Gore's thicknessing formula and average values for density and stiffness from the wood database, it appears that Ziricote would be the closest, vibrationally, of the species you list to Brazilian Rosewood or East Indian Rosewood.
This formula says 2.44 mm for an average piece of BR, 2.58 for EIR, and 2.50 for Ziricote.
Every piece is different, of course, so you have to measure the density and stiffness of the individual piece of wood you have to get a proper thickness.
Yep!
Great video Tom.If possible can you showcase Pao Ferro back and sides sometime? Crelicam and Ziricote Ebony are beauts!
We did Pao Ferro a little while back, but maybe it’s time to revisit!
@@TomSandsGuitars Thanks.
Sinker Mahogany? Have you felt the recent boom in reclaimed hardwood? I just inspected a 2000 pc inspection and the tap test was unbelievable. Mahogany that has a ceramic resonant quality? It smells like sulfur when sanded but it deserves some credit.
I haven’t tried it but I know others really like it.
Ziricote is by far my favorite wood! Such beautiful color and figure.
It certainly is glorious
Thank you for this, Tom!
When I tap, I like to balance the plate on top of my clavicle bone (or acromion, actually) and hold it upright with a finger - this removes the damping you get when you pinch it between two fingers. Either way works, but my hearing has suffered from the "too much use since new" malady and it works better for me. Cheers!
Sounds like an interesting technique!
Black locust or Honey locust would be an interesting North American wood for guitar building.
Yes, someone else mentioned black locust and it’s one my wish list. It’s a good non tropical alternative too!
I could really hear those tones when you tapped! Brazilian Rosewood IS undoubtedly a distinct sounding wood for back and sides of a guitar.
I find that the speed of sound (SOS) is a good indicator to use in wood comparison. The SOS per density puts each wood in a category that can be compared to other categories. This is an objective way that woods could be compared to Brazilian Rosewood besides tap tones. Tap tones change with thickness and dimension although I won’t doubt anyones experience.
You’re quite right
Great video Tom, I've got a ziricote guitar that's almost ready to be shipped just got my final progress pictures.
It's good to see you are a fan of it toneally, I kinda took a punt given that I've never really heard a guitar made with it but I've paired it with a cedar top so hopefully that adds some warmth but I can't wait to hear her 😊
Please send me a link to your work so I can check it out!
I never knew that the blanks of wood rang like that when you tap them. It’s crazy that they ring that way.
Yeah the high-end makers will voice their sets 2 get the best Sonic residence
@@dalefuller5507 I’ve owned cocobolo & rosewood guitars but always thought the resonance was from the chamber and not the actual wood. My mind was blown when I saw him do that.
Yep! They really do!
these woods would also make some great flutes I think. informative video!
I bet they would!
Nice video. Thank you
Thank you too
One day i hope to be an apprentice of yours. Thanks for another awesome video
Send me an email with more info about yourself!
@@TomSandsGuitars Oh thanks will do so right away
I wanted to like ziricote. Impressive visuals. Good sustain, but seemed to lack overtones compared to other rosewood types.
It always depends on how it is voiced
@@TomSandsGuitars The back can be voiced? I've only played a few guitars with ziricote, but it seemed to lack the overtones one would expect with rosewood.
What about Wenge? Surely an option instead of Brazilian Rosewood?
Yeah it’s a great option
Great video. Thank you so much
You are so welcome!
Have you tried or heard of using Lychee wood as tonewood? I only know of hozen from maestro guitars who makes guitars out of lychee, I’m interested to hear your review of it, it supposedly sounds like a brighter cocobolo
fascinating video, lovely sets of wood, i seen some of the prices of them builds you shown 18k etc i guess that a taylor or martin are using cheap versions of these woods ? and also the fact the guitars you guys are building are all hand crafted an that also incrreaes the price a lot or are the woods taylor and martin use the same quality ?
Taylor and Martin are producing hundreds of thousands of instruments per year, we produce 12-15. Economies of scale are a big part of the price disparity, but quality of materials, design and execution, process and customer interaction are the main factor.
What about African Blackwood (dalbergia melanoxylon)?
Thank you Tom. How would you rank African wenge among these substitutes? I know it's hard to work with, but are its tone qualities worth it?
Yeah I really like wenge but yes, difficult to work with. I’d put it in this conversation for sure.
@@TomSandsGuitars Rodger that thanks!
Have you ever tried using Ostrya sometimes called Ironwood? There are many varieties worldwide, and I was wondering how a Ostrya fretboard would look and feel llke.
I haven’t but I know my buddy Dion (Dion Guitars) has. Looked AmaIng
Beautiful scenario/shop.
Cheers!
Hi, have you had experience with Palo Escrito? the one you called here grenadilo looks as it also be Palo Escrito.
I get asked about it a lot, would like to get some but very hard to source in the U.K.
En entrevistas con lutieres mejicanos en RUclips dicen que el palo escrito, que es Dalbergia Paloescrito, no produce tan buenos graves como Dalbergia nigra ni Dalbergia de la India para guitarras clásicas. Cómo mucho sirve para guitarra de estudio.
La madera de olivo, que es muy aceitosa no se seca nunca y por tanto no sirve para lutería de guitarras de sonido acústico.
Hell yah Spread the word!
Preach!
please do a similar video using local hardwoods. my area is northeast usa. hickory, locust, mayple come to mind.
Great suggestion!
I think maple bodied acoustic guitars are good birch is very underrated too
Have you tried Ptercarpus indicus? Some super nice pieces about.
I don’t think so, love the name, will check it out. Do you have a good supplier?
@@TomSandsGuitars I am not sure in your part of the world, they sell it as "rosewood" here in New Zealand. It is mostly used for decking but the best stuff is sold cheaply as seconds because of the dark coloured streaks and figure. My partner is from the Philippines and they call it Narra. It has a distinctive smell when you work it, almost like flowers.
@@jacobthellamer I’ve just been looking at it, I know it as Narra, need to get some!
Love your videos tom. Im thinking of commissioning a custom guitar and want something that would pair well with western red cedar. What would you think would pair closest with that Brazilian vibe?
I think Katalox could be a really good shout!
I'm curious about some potentially weird choices! Such as teak, different kinds of oak, pecan wood, zebrawood and bamboo?
I’ve got some Pecan and other nut woods! Bamboo is one I’ve often wondered about
10 litres of magic spray were used in the making of this video 😮
Would love to hear some back to back clips of these woods on your guitars to really get a sense of how they compare to Brazilian rosewood. Tap tones sound really great tho 👍🏻
Yeah it’s a really good suggestion, unfortunately we’ve just not built enough to have like for like specs to do a fair comparison. One day!
What is your thought about padauk? I've heard people say this is a great Brazilian rosewood substitution but rarely used for back and side.
Miles apart but interesting.. and there are many sources of Padauk.. all different.
Yes, I’d say it absolutely is! I’ve built with it and it makes a great sounding guitar. Sadly it is also increasingly restricted.
Miles apart? Not really. And as for different, you’d be hard pressed
to come up with another timber more varied than Brazilian rosewood in terms of supply these days. Can’t think I’ve come across two pieces alike even from ‘old stock’ in the last 20 years.
I was wondering if you or someone else can tell me what 'Napfa/Napther' is in Australian English? I hear mainly Americans using that word.
I've worked in both heavy industry and lutherie for 43 years and I have never seen a product called that. I was thinking maybe 'Kerosene' or even 'Shellite'?
Naphtha is known as Shellite in Australia 🇦🇺 🙌
@@TomSandsGuitars Well, there's a long time mystery solved. I'm enjoying my subscription to your channel. Cheers.
Ziracote is geology wood. Love it!
It really is! It makes my brain hurt trying to figure out how those patterns are produced.
Ever worked with purpleheart? Would like to hear your opinion about it. Also, olive wood looks quire funky, smells lovely and, on paper, it has very similar mechanical properties to rosewood. I wonder if you have ever worked wit it.
I’ve had some olive wood but nothing big enough to make a guitar with. It does smell amazing! We have some purple heart that I’ll be using for a neck soon!
@@TomSandsGuitars Purple heart for a neck? Never thought about it... I assumed it would be too heavy, but otoh it would definitely be strong! I have made a couple of fretboards with it and it polishes to a very smooth glassy surface, a bit like maple. Either way, I look forward to seeing your build.
@@TomSandsGuitars PS. I think Madinter has some olive wood sets big wnough for a classical guitar. And if you don't use them, you can just sniff them and feel all healthy
@@gustau4764 haha! Love it.
Really enjoyed this video. Have you ever worked with Tanzanian Blackwood?
I have yes
Makes a wonderful guitar, shame I can’t get any more of it!
Thanks for another great bud Tom!
Cocobolo is the way, you know, until that gets banned too 😬
I really like it but my body doesn’t!
Great line up! What do you think of Bocote?
I’ve got some to check out!
@@TomSandsGuitarsCool are you going to showcase it?
Do you think it is unethical to buy a new guitar that was built with old growth Brazilian Rosewood back and sides (harvested long before 1992)?
Personally, no. But I understand the argument that it could be seen as such. What are your thoughts?
@@TomSandsGuitars Well, I bought one such guitar in 2020. So I originally felt as you do. This wood was likely harvested in the 1920s, long before the CITES regulation. But after reading through posts on acoustic guitar forums where people were arguing that anything having to do with Brazilian was unethical I began to think more deeply about it. It's very sad those forests were decimated but the wood was already cut. To me using the wood to make a beautiful instrument that can bring joy to oneself and others is much better than using it for lesser purposes or not at all. I do think it's a good thing there are protections in place for the forests that remain.
@@nicetalkintoya I would very much tend to agree. It’s good that you have given thought to this, many don’t.
Wenge is similar tonewise. Lots of glassiness and brittleness.
I agree
i’ve always wondered what a ziricote guitar would sound like
Pretty nice!
Have you ever built with Purple heart?
I’ve worked with it just not used it for a guitar, although I have some neck blacks waiting!
Brazilian woods, like mahogany, pau ferro and rosewood are very protected.
I know mate, I know. That’s why we made the video.
@@TomSandsGuitars I know. Just reinforcing your point. In Brazil, I can kill someone and defend myself without being arrested, depending on my case. But if I kill a tree, jail...
Brazilian rosewood is the best wood that you can buy for guitars.. nothing can beat Brazilian rosewood.. I have 3 guitars made of Brazilian rosewood and I can say they are incredible sound.. I say that they easily worth like 5000 euros..
Made by whom?
is that right that Indian loral is sounding more like ebony
Yes I think so. I haven’t handled much but that was my impression.
Because i doesnt found lots of information on it thanks for the answer. I think it mostly is used for fretboards in the electric world in the moment maybe its to splintere or bit to hard for bendig sides for a acoustic
@@acdclexu6296 I think Michael Bashkin and Bigfoot Guitars have both used it for acoustics
Apologies if you already explained it in the video but I jumped around abit.
Is there a specific reason you left out Madagascar, Honduran, Guatemalan, Panama, Rosewood out? Which are usually marketed by the larger guitar companies as 'closest' sounding to Brazilian rosewood. Or is that just all marketing kool-aid?
Yes - I didn’t want to include more than one other rosewood species and I think cocobolo is the closest. I love madagascar rosewood but I fear it is all but wiped out. I also wanted to include species which people might not have immediately thought of. Cheers!
You should do your tone tapping before you wet the woods.
I do.
not all woods are the same, you can have your different cuts, rift, quarter, flat so forth that may effect tap tone, or just a different type of growth, grown on the side of a hill, flat land, whatever, you can have 2 pieces from the same tree and they can tap differently, just cuz its a certain species is no guarantee its worth using, its a hands on thing really, give it a thump
You must be new here, welcome to the channel! It’s actually nice to have someone recommend I tap on a piece of wood instead of the usual trolls telling me I’m an idiot for waxing lyrical about the nuance of wood. Your might find my Tonewood series interesting 🙏
All of the Dalbergia genus is listed.
Not on appendix 1.
thank you
You're welcome
I am a retired public school custodian. I learned how to build guitars and ukes on youtube. It might come as a surprise to some of you but I never considered Brazilian rosewood for my builds.
Why not?
@@TomSandsGuitars Save the rare stuff for the big boys. I bought some madagascar rosewood from Stew mac and I have purchased various woods on your recomendations, but my favorite combos all seem to deal with Walnut and Maples and Mahogany.
Why do luthiers use naphtha? Skin contact is dangerous, the fumes burn your eyes, it's volatile, it's flammable...and you work with wood! I hope you have a giant "No Smoking" sign outside your workshop door. Btw, fabulous videos, just subscribed. Thanks for the great content.
I use it to imitate lacquer for a brief period. It doesn’t seem to irritate my skin or my eyes. I prefer it to something like alcohol because it doesn’t pull the oils or moisture from the wood.
Thanks for the sub, really appreciate it!!
I have several cocobolo trees and are ultra ultra super slow growing.🐢🐢🐢 for that reason are restrincted.
Wow, where are they growing?
Don’t tell people not to buy Brazilian Rosewood! I’m trying to sell a few sets myself!
😬
Feeling blessed that I was blown to your channel and you. If anyone can answer my question (s) it would be you.
Have you heard of Arizona Rosewood? (Vauquelinia californica). I’ve just moved back to Arizona and am retiring soon. I have so many questions. Great channel.
Hi there! I haven’t! I will check it out 🙏
Another note:
Dalbergia spruciana (AKA Amazon Rosewood) has been passed off as Dalbergia negra for decades.. and none have been the wiser, except those of us who
were duped by unscrupulous wood brokers.
Some famous bulders swalloed the jello from a couple wood hustlers in Spain. Another con from Mendocino Calif stung me
as was a friend and furniture designer, ex Fine Woodworking contributor, trained in Sweden.
A sample was sent for analysis and not dalbergia negra as represented but spruciana.
Very difficult to tell the difference for most folks.
Nothing wrong with spruciana, it is simply not negra, though Brazilian.
Would you like to buy a pallet of genuine Bolivian Rosewood ? Or Pernambuco , Hmmm ?
The smell is usually a big give away. Sorry to hear you got mugged off. As for the Bolivian ‘rosewood’ and the pernambuco, I’m good, thanks.
@@TomSandsGuitars That was a joke.
There is NO Bolivian Rosewood as we all know.
Pernambuco is all but banned. And the junk that is being offered is simply pao brasil,
and not the better quality Pernambuco.
(the country of Brazil was named after the wood which was harvested and imported in massive quantities for the cloth dying trade in France)
@@jeffhildreth9244 no, I got it, it was hilarious. I’m still laughing now.
@@TomSandsGuitars Full disclosure... from 1980 to 85 I hustled rare wood for instrument builders .. I had a route from Vancouver Canada to San Diego Calif where I stopped in a builder's shops and offed my stuff. I specialized in Honduras rosewood and Pernambuco as well a some other stuff to include western big leaf maple.
I had customers from Japan to Paris stop in at my shop in Santa Cruz Calif. Gave it up and went back to my corporate gig.
I still. have quite a bit of wood stashed. I would guess enough for a couple hundred guitars. The only Brazilian rosewood I have is a fantastic set of sides about 40 years old by now, sadly only the sides and maybe 20 bridge blanks. . I also have some killer coco bolo enough for 3 possibly 4 guitars, never seen darker nor better... and lots of other stuff to include 5 different mahoganies and lots of figured maple and so on. Most of what I have is at minimum 30 years old.. been dragging some this stuff around since the 60s.
This includes sets of very old, nothing like today's sorry, East Indian. Quite a few billets of Port Orford and Western red cedar for tops, and a few sets of tops in Engelman. (sp) Some is in my small shop, the rest in storage as I sold my property and massive shop and moved "to town".
In process of getting permits to put up another shop. Then back to work.
@@jeffhildreth9244 hope that works out for you. 👍
I could watch naphtha being put on tonewood sets all day long.
Right!?
We should share some info. I work for a guitar company in Nazareth Pa. for the last 30 years. Your approach is very similar to mine so let’s talk WOOD. I’m a custom shop wood inspector…yeah! I love my job. Let’s tawk…
Hey Mark! Would love to chat, I responded to your email but it bounced back - please get in touch via info@tomsandsguitars.com cheers!
Malaysian blackwood looks alot like African Thorn Accacia
Do you know the botanical name?
@@TomSandsGuitars I'll find out and email it to you
@@TomSandsGuitars I sent an email through via the link at tomsands guitar website
"Wood lust runs deep in this one"
Haha, for sure!
Does anybody know why, people don't grow these rare timbers in plantations. Many trees in the Rosewood family grow like weeds. Somebody who planted a half dozen Brazilian trees in 1992 could be coming upon major wealth soon, if they were able to sell it. Maybe legal restrictions remove the incentive from planting it.
Because it only grown is brazil and its illegal to sell.
People do grow it elsewhere but as the previous reply suggests, it would still be illegal to sell.
@@TomSandsGuitars I suppose my question wasn't clear, and should have been why they don't grow more Brazilian rosewood trees in Brazil. As it's a vast country and currently around 200 million hectares are used for either cattle or soybeans, and they have both increased greatly since 1992. If there was just one Nigra tree per 10 of those hectares that would be 20 million trees. Cows and vegetable oil have done far more to decimate the Brazilian Rosewood population than woodworkers. Instead of making BR illegal to sell in perpetuity, perhaps the government could have encouraged the planting of Rosewood, and placed restrictions on harvesting mature and wild trees. And that would provide more ecologically and economic benefit than an absolute ban. It seems to create a circle of scarcity and an incentive to poach the remaining trees. Poor people living in the styx will be tempted to cut down a million dollar tree, and an official can be bribed into saying it was salvaged or reclaimed or some exception.
@@aliasname602 short answer - humans are morons.
@@TomSandsGuitars cant argue with that!
There are no shortages. There are only suppressed abundances. Because of the desirability Brazilian rosewood. They could plant an entire tree for every fretboard used. They choose not to do this because of government regulations.
You’re going to have to provide some sort of source material to back up this claim, frankly it makes no sense.
It's actually a pretty easy concept to understand. Let's say you have a guitar maker like Paul Reed Smith that has a giant Financial market for Brazilian rosewood. He files for a permit with the government in Brazil to open a nursery that grows thousands of rosewood trees. The wood is then legally permitted. And the population of Rosewood trees goes up.
It's easy to accomplish. You put water and fertilizer and good soil and low and behold the trees grow.
That can't be done because what Brazil does. Is they sell land to corporations and they clear away portions of the rainforest and they bring in a lot of Industries like strip mining. And real estate development. And they freely will sell Commodities of land to foreign investors including investors from china. But they will not allow for an ethical sustainable reforestization. Or for nurseries to grow Brazilian rosewood.
If we're talking about something like elephant ivory. It's a different game. You can't raise elephants just to harvest their ivory. But you can plant trees there's no reason these trees can't grow other than governments not allowing this to happen. It's okay for them to sell off the rainforest but it's not okay for them to allow nurseries to grow Brazilian rosewood. It's incredibly wrong. And people have bought into this myth that we're doing some service by not buying Brazilian rosewood and coveting it. That's why it's a suppressed abundance.
@@NickWsGuitarCandy interesting theory.
Hormingo ? Was that one of the sets ? Transcript doesn’t get it right
Yes!
No mahogany, no koa?
Not as a Braz replacement, very different.
i am surprise Madagascar rosewood is not in the top 5 alternative list
I fear madagascar rosewood is not far behind Brazilian now. I love working with it but it’s virtually impossible to get hold of.
@@TomSandsGuitars how does the smell compare?
@@anthonya9472 nothing compares to the aroma of Brazilian! Did you know the essential oil was used in the original Chanel No.5 perfume?? Wow
@@anthonya9472I had a chance to play 2-3 Martins using Madagascar Rosewood and lota of Brazillian Rosewood guitars (Im from Brazil) and Madagascar pretty much have no smell if you compare with our rosewood.
Brazilian rosewood is so last season.
😆
HaHa. Indeed!
I miss African Blackwood
I have some…
you guys really pay this huge amount of money in brazilian rosewood ?
i mean, i'am brazillian, and if you look in pages and apps like shopee or mercado livre you could buy for a decent price and help the local people.
the guys that re-sell things in us or uk or idk from where you are reading this message overprice the wood only because just a few brazilians that extract these type of wood know how to speak english. so they can put a status of unique and justify the high price.
also i'am sorry about any grammatical errors in my comment
It’s illegal to extract new material.
Sustainable woods only. Preferably local. Stop buying endangered woods.
What are some of your favourites? What should I be looking at?
@@TomSandsGuitars I don't really know haha maybe you should make a round 2 video! Like Maple or something? Poplar, Cherry, Holly, Birch, Beech?
@@Obscurity202 I’ve definitely got some non tropical timbers I’d like to showcase and this is a great idea for a video, thanks!
Careful with that naphtha or you'll end up on Ozzieman's channel!
Haha, yeah, was a bit gung ho there for a sec
Black locust. Shh. Don't tell anyone.
Ohhhh it’s been on my list to get hold of!
@@TomSandsGuitars Yeah, please do. I believe it's plantation grown in Romania and elsewhere under the name "robinia." It's a weed tree here. If you would like a few scraps to tap on, I could probably mail you some. Stiffness and density are very close to Brazilian Rosewood, but nowhere near as pretty. Still it works and looks good under finish. Best wishes of wood success!
That brazilian rosewood available today is horrible stuff and it costs a fortune.
Costs a fortune yes, but beautiful stuff is still very much available.
The examples you have shown are all, without exception, low end quality.
Catalox. "Royal Mexican Ebony" how utterly comical.
When banging on the boards you might consider the "nodes".
Coco Bolo anywhere from yellow to black. Panama to Mexico.
Enough next.
‘Low end quality’ - sorta like your attitude. Next.
Is crelicam the same as Macassar ebony!?🤔
No, the look similar but grow in different places