Look, the people like the guy so much they keep electing him. After all, if they don't, it may cause the end of Democracy, and you wouldn't be one of those 'anti-democracy' people now would you?
The term limits of the late Roman Republic partially occuring from tradition but codified in Sulla's dictatorship required one year terms for all magistracies and 10 years between elections into the consulship. The first triumvirate bent rules about the time and allocation of provincal governorships to enable their dominance of key areas of military expansion. The annihilation of Crassus' expedition against the Parthians cascaded into succeeding power plays descending into numerous civil wars. Limiting terms is ... sensitive and a difficult aspect of constitutional law to get right. Former politicians excluded by term limits will seek other ways to imprint their lust for control via leadership of political parties or even coups and revolutions. Perhaps these multiple balancing acts being required are why Plato and Aristotle denigrated democratic governance as unstable
@@supercellodudePlato and Aristotle had much more problems with democracy than just it being unstable. One of the arguments goes like this: What is justice? Justice is when everyone gets their due. In a democracy regardless of how deserving an individual is, his vote will be the same as the vote of the least deserving one. Therefore democracy is fundametally built on injustice
Botswana kept reelecting the same guy because they fucking loved him so much, he was the guy who made Botswana the fastest growing economy the the world, and the economy fucking kept growing even after he DIED. Botswana loved that man so much
When your country is so democratic that it creates system where it's mandatory to reaffirm rule of leader on regular yearly referendum until he literally dies
honestly not a bad thing at all. we think of term limits as necessary for democracy (if this is even something we should strive for) but its not. countries like australia (my own) dont have term limits; we had menzies in power for about 17 years straight i think, and by all neoliberal definitions we are 100% a democracy
@@garfieee5624 the problem with abolishing term limits is that its a good way for authoritarians. You can look at history of latin american countries in 20 century where presidents just used it to stay indefinitely in power without actually being popular. But I do agree that term limit is not inherently needed. For example, there is one in Russia, but it's easily abusable too(look up Medvedev presidency if you don't know)
@@КофаЛыч Another problem is that power corrupts, quite literally. Even an absolute paragon of morality will start getting a little drunk with power after ruling for too long.
Honestly the reason I like republics more than monarchies is because the feel I have when I centralize power is better than with monarchies. Yes, you can revoke privileges and have high absolutism, but that's more related to expanding your country than having a better control of it.
Oh you can get it from there, for sure, but you don't 'need' it, and hence I decided to go with more of a 'realistic' build this time. Well spotted though!
That makes sense, although I think it maybe allow less stacking of the RT modifiers? Allowing for someone to do a more realistic build without sacrificing good idea groups (in context to MP). Hm.. I may need to try this build for a meme one day.
Usually the routes you describe in videos sound absolutely horrific to play, but this one sounds like a lot of fun! I'm a little burned out on Bologna from messing up Spaghetti Western repeatedly, but I might give it a go.
Its awesome that eu4's mana and board game-esque values system that boils down the nuances of government and society into simple 'resources' gets you ridiculous scenarios like this
I know what i ll be testing in near future. Mr Lemon Cake I want to ask you and maybe sugest new video idea. Absolutism - we all know its bonuses normaly caps at 100. But if I am not mistaken some time ago new modifier was added called Max effect of absolutism. I did not made a math but i'm intrested if it has a potencial. I appreciate your work and wish you good luck.
Thanks for the support! I did actually look at max effect of absolutism a while back, but my issue with in terms of making a video is the sources of the stuff are rather limited, meaning that there just isn't much to talk about in the video in question. I guess it might work as a short, but I don't like shorts. Thanks for the suggestion though, I will bare it in mind, and you will be pleased to hear its still on my list!
More than once in your vids, and in this one, you’ve mentioned exploits (like multiple government reforms on the same tier) that you don’t normally include. In the future would you consider covering exploits/gamebreaks?
My issue with covering those kinds of exploits is I may end up 'promoting' them, and I feel like I would rather people not use them overall. I mention them for completeness sake most of the time anyway, and if you want to cheat, which is completely fine to do if you are open about it and you are playing Singleplayer, you are best of doing that with console commands anyway.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the Swiss confederation was actually pretty aristocratic. It was indeed a loose confederation of cantons who couldnt force each other to do much of anything, but who actually had political rights within those cantons is a different matter entirely and was certainly not extended universal suffrage. One Swiss canton also took forever to institute women's suffrage.
Ah, that's fair. My only knowledge of Swiss politics is everyone calls them a direct democracy hence they are 'the good guys'. Thanks for the clarification!
@@LemonCake101 Is still a very good guide especially if you want an absolute broken monarch point generation as a republic! I guess if you wanted to play with a bit more roleplay with less care for optimising anything, then going for parliament and separation of church and state would probably be best because it eliminates both the nobility and clergy estates, leaving you more or less with a liberal/bourgeois democracy. The new civic republicanism government with its term limits would e a good fit as well. Might not be quite as fun and broken though
@@viktator4205 that's fair, I will be honest I mainly looked at the Eu4 side of things, the thing with RP is it is all literally inside your head (in a good way) so there is also not much stopping you saying 'this Swiss Canton is Direct Democracy, and this Monarchy is benevolent' but your suggestions look good!
There's a third option to switch out from the crappy Italian gov reform. I'm not sure if you just didn't mention it because it's not as democratic a government type, but if you have 70% crownland and high estate loyalty, you can switch to Plutocracy. It seems less boring than the Free City option, at least.
^ yes: my issue with plutocracy is its not very democratic, in the description its literally 'Democracy for the Rich' unlike something like Free City where you can at least hide behind screaming 'Freedom' to anyone that says you are not Democratic.
@@LemonCake101 Well, if we're being honest, literally any government type in EU4 except for Peasant Republic and maybe the unique American one are only for the rich and powerful. But I get what you mean.
@@blastification2 yeah, no, but if only the rich and powerful voting is mentioned in your description, you are definitely disqualified. At least pretend you are democratic!
Anglican is a pretty nice religion for republics due to the 5 republican tradition button, which can become more than 1 yearly republican tradition, also from the the tier where you took the attorney general you can take the diet one instead which, if you do the math, is 0.4 republican tradition yearly as long as you can finish ur diet within the 5 years, which is more than the attorney general can give you, and surely holding more diets to debate the situation of the republic is more democratic
another option i really like with regards to stacking modifiers for republics is sambas > lanfang! they get a unique government reform, the kongsi federation, which gives a ridiculous +.5 yearly republican tradition, alongside lanfang's national ideas granting +.3 yearly republican tradition. i don't know if the extra republican tradition from the kongsi federation is enough to outweigh the election cost from bologna's ideas, but i'd definitely want to see how they compare!
Well, the re-election reduction cost of 20% comes to 0.5 yearly republican tradition assuming you always re-elect. The issue with suggesting that run is lanfang from what I remember is a pain to play as, unless they changed it recently. But we’ll spotted!
@@LemonCake101 I would consider it no more painful than any other nation in that area. The initial war against Brunei is tough and you need a good navy, but otherwise it's not too bad, and you start with a gold mine you could make your capital. Last time I was even able to force Ming to explode by blockading them for over a decade and just devastating their entire coastline XD The main thing you're missing out is on the free policy from the Swiss Cantons, which does admittedly hurt but you'll be swimming in monarch points anyway, tis the whole idea of Republics.
To be fair, FDR got elected for three terms and he would have finished that third one and probably go on for another if he didn't die mid term so it's not unrealistic to have someone reelected for the position of power until they die and it still being democratic.
One benefit to stacking rep. tradition beyond the necessary limit is to be able to get away with decreasing it on republican events. it is fairly easy too with the Doge's Palace being so close.
Very Nice Build but i have tried it many Times but Italian Alliances are very difficult to beat as Bologna. Maybe i had very bad RNG or i have a skill issue but i'll try to do it again. Very Fun and Challenging.
Go for it, its not a trivial run! Its just a lot more doable then the runs I usually have to make, which involve 15 culture switches, 20 tag switches and 5 religion flips.
That's fair, I mean you can also get to 100 absolutism with these policies too, you just have to go through court and country and keep your crownland up. Sounds like a fun run!
Do you even need Bolognese ideas considering the policies, the advisors from attorney general, and how the extra mana from elections means you can strengthen government regularly for basically free?
No forming the USA in this video? For shame LemonCake. You didn't even mention the country that possesses the "Arsenal of Democracy". You missed an opportunity to increase your Democracy levels.
Yup, those are options, but this doesn't require festivals or winning wars, hence perfection! But yes, there are many options for maintaining 100 republican tradition.
Back in the dats (pre-1.30 i believe), all of national ideas were like 0.5 rep/traditions per year As well as having Ismailite Muslim piety school Later, it was nerfed to 0.3 per year But You still get 0.5 traditions per year if you INVITE Ismaili school
sounds like a Paradox moment, but yeah, honestly it made sense. Assuming no re-election cost modifiers, you need 2.5 yearly republican tradition to re-elect forever, and you can get there with just 3 0.5 rep tradition modifiers.
@@LemonCake101 hilarious part is you get 0.3 if your main school is Ismailite Yet 0.5 inviting Plus, I believe swipping from shia to sunni and then back plus estate exploit allows 0.8 yearly traditions per year for 20 years
@@Rosemarie_and_tomato there's also a couple other places that still give 0.5, but those might be intentional. Its certainly possible to get to 2.5 and hence not need any re-election cost, but targeting re-election cost is significantly easier.
Well… the advisors are 48% men 52% women. The actual leaders are all still generated as male, so the ‘glass ceiling’ as it where is still there actually.
no Sich Rada, disgusting, unsubscribed, and i'm pulling up to your nan's house with the Zaporizhian Host also STATELESS SOCIETY tier 1 government reform is probably the most democratic, followed by something like the Great Peasant Republic or Sich Rada. Direct democracy beats confederalism every time baybee
If someone wants to play republics, atleast play as something cool like sich rada or dutch republic where its actually worth it to play as republic, instead of some other cringe generic republics.
True Democracy in EU4 is the ability to CHOOSE the 6/6/6 to rule the nation once again
Exactly, glad you agree!
the irony of being super democratic while continuously re-electing the same person
Look, the people like the guy so much they keep electing him. After all, if they don't, it may cause the end of Democracy, and you wouldn't be one of those 'anti-democracy' people now would you?
The term limits of the late Roman Republic partially occuring from tradition but codified in Sulla's dictatorship required one year terms for all magistracies and 10 years between elections into the consulship. The first triumvirate bent rules about the time and allocation of provincal governorships to enable their dominance of key areas of military expansion. The annihilation of Crassus' expedition against the Parthians cascaded into succeeding power plays descending into numerous civil wars.
Limiting terms is ... sensitive and a difficult aspect of constitutional law to get right. Former politicians excluded by term limits will seek other ways to imprint their lust for control via leadership of political parties or even coups and revolutions. Perhaps these multiple balancing acts being required are why Plato and Aristotle denigrated democratic governance as unstable
@@supercellodudePlato and Aristotle had much more problems with democracy than just it being unstable. One of the arguments goes like this: What is justice? Justice is when everyone gets their due. In a democracy regardless of how deserving an individual is, his vote will be the same as the vote of the least deserving one. Therefore democracy is fundametally built on injustice
Botswana kept reelecting the same guy because they fucking loved him so much, he was the guy who made Botswana the fastest growing economy the the world, and the economy fucking kept growing even after he DIED. Botswana loved that man so much
@@supercellodude ... so this isn't Eu4, and its not Math, so its beyond my pay grade I am afraid
When your country is so democratic that it creates system where it's mandatory to reaffirm rule of leader on regular yearly referendum until he literally dies
Its not mandatory that would be a dictatorship! It just... happens to happen like that due to the popularity of the leader in question!
honestly not a bad thing at all. we think of term limits as necessary for democracy (if this is even something we should strive for) but its not. countries like australia (my own) dont have term limits; we had menzies in power for about 17 years straight i think, and by all neoliberal definitions we are 100% a democracy
@@garfieee5624 the problem with abolishing term limits is that its a good way for authoritarians. You can look at history of latin american countries in 20 century where presidents just used it to stay indefinitely in power without actually being popular.
But I do agree that term limit is not inherently needed. For example, there is one in Russia, but it's easily abusable too(look up Medvedev presidency if you don't know)
@@КофаЛыч Another problem is that power corrupts, quite literally. Even an absolute paragon of morality will start getting a little drunk with power after ruling for too long.
Honestly the reason I like republics more than monarchies is because the feel I have when I centralize power is better than with monarchies. Yes, you can revoke privileges and have high absolutism, but that's more related to expanding your country than having a better control of it.
Absolutism is strong, don't get me wrong, I am just presenting this as an alternative that is strong in its own special way!
I don't know if you missed it, however the White House also allows you to get more re-election cost!
Oh you can get it from there, for sure, but you don't 'need' it, and hence I decided to go with more of a 'realistic' build this time. Well spotted though!
That makes sense, although I think it maybe allow less stacking of the RT modifiers? Allowing for someone to do a more realistic build without sacrificing good idea groups (in context to MP).
Hm.. I may need to try this build for a meme one day.
@@EfficParadox Eh, MP's builds are a hell of a drug, and hence a different thing to what I am doing here.
Instead of Autonomous Swiss Cantons or Free City you could also go for Peasants' Republic when the Great Peasants' War happens
Yup, that’s also a valid option! I forgot that you can get it from the Germany HRE disaster
Usually the routes you describe in videos sound absolutely horrific to play, but this one sounds like a lot of fun! I'm a little burned out on Bologna from messing up Spaghetti Western repeatedly, but I might give it a go.
I did do that achievement a while back, it’s a not trivial start for sure. But glad to hear I inspired a campaign!
Fun fact, on patch 1.32 (the only patch I tested it in) if you get reelection cost below -100% you GET republican tradition during reelections
Good to know, always an idea to keep an eye on uncapped modifiers!
Sorry for the lack of stuff last week, was a touch busy, hopefully getting back into the swing of things. Enjoy the video!
I understand your pain. Life is very busy!
@@yetikings thanks!
Its awesome that eu4's mana and board game-esque values system that boils down the nuances of government and society into simple 'resources' gets you ridiculous scenarios like this
What can I say, if you give me the tools for it, I will use them!
I liked and subscribed because you nailed the unexpected transition into "Please like and sub". Well done, that was smooth.
Glad you enjoyed, I try to be original compared to the usual 'smash like and sub' so its appreciated that its noticed!
I know what i ll be testing in near future. Mr Lemon Cake I want to ask you and maybe sugest new video idea. Absolutism - we all know its bonuses normaly caps at 100. But if I am not mistaken some time ago new modifier was added called Max effect of absolutism. I did not made a math but i'm intrested if it has a potencial. I appreciate your work and wish you good luck.
Thanks for the support! I did actually look at max effect of absolutism a while back, but my issue with in terms of making a video is the sources of the stuff are rather limited, meaning that there just isn't much to talk about in the video in question. I guess it might work as a short, but I don't like shorts. Thanks for the suggestion though, I will bare it in mind, and you will be pleased to hear its still on my list!
More than once in your vids, and in this one, you’ve mentioned exploits (like multiple government reforms on the same tier) that you don’t normally include. In the future would you consider covering exploits/gamebreaks?
My issue with covering those kinds of exploits is I may end up 'promoting' them, and I feel like I would rather people not use them overall. I mention them for completeness sake most of the time anyway, and if you want to cheat, which is completely fine to do if you are open about it and you are playing Singleplayer, you are best of doing that with console commands anyway.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the Swiss confederation was actually pretty aristocratic. It was indeed a loose confederation of cantons who couldnt force each other to do much of anything, but who actually had political rights within those cantons is a different matter entirely and was certainly not extended universal suffrage. One Swiss canton also took forever to institute women's suffrage.
Ah, that's fair. My only knowledge of Swiss politics is everyone calls them a direct democracy hence they are 'the good guys'. Thanks for the clarification!
@@LemonCake101 Is still a very good guide especially if you want an absolute broken monarch point generation as a republic!
I guess if you wanted to play with a bit more roleplay with less care for optimising anything, then going for parliament and separation of church and state would probably be best because it eliminates both the nobility and clergy estates, leaving you more or less with a liberal/bourgeois democracy. The new civic republicanism government with its term limits would e a good fit as well. Might not be quite as fun and broken though
@@viktator4205 that's fair, I will be honest I mainly looked at the Eu4 side of things, the thing with RP is it is all literally inside your head (in a good way) so there is also not much stopping you saying 'this Swiss Canton is Direct Democracy, and this Monarchy is benevolent' but your suggestions look good!
There's a third option to switch out from the crappy Italian gov reform. I'm not sure if you just didn't mention it because it's not as democratic a government type, but if you have 70% crownland and high estate loyalty, you can switch to Plutocracy. It seems less boring than the Free City option, at least.
^ yes: my issue with plutocracy is its not very democratic, in the description its literally 'Democracy for the Rich' unlike something like Free City where you can at least hide behind screaming 'Freedom' to anyone that says you are not Democratic.
@@LemonCake101 Well, if we're being honest, literally any government type in EU4 except for Peasant Republic and maybe the unique American one are only for the rich and powerful. But I get what you mean.
@@blastification2 yeah, no, but if only the rich and powerful voting is mentioned in your description, you are definitely disqualified. At least pretend you are democratic!
He mentioned reforms where only the rich get to vote aren't considered, yeah.
Like freedom is good and all but you made me really fancy a spaghetti bolognaise after that
Glad you got the main point of the video!
Anglican is a pretty nice religion for republics due to the 5 republican tradition button, which can become more than 1 yearly republican tradition, also from the the tier where you took the attorney general you can take the diet one instead which, if you do the math, is 0.4 republican tradition yearly as long as you can finish ur diet within the 5 years, which is more than the attorney general can give you, and surely holding more diets to debate the situation of the republic is more democratic
Cool little strategy guide you put together. I might have to try this run out!
Glad you enjoyed, go for it!
another option i really like with regards to stacking modifiers for republics is sambas > lanfang! they get a unique government reform, the kongsi federation, which gives a ridiculous +.5 yearly republican tradition, alongside lanfang's national ideas granting +.3 yearly republican tradition. i don't know if the extra republican tradition from the kongsi federation is enough to outweigh the election cost from bologna's ideas, but i'd definitely want to see how they compare!
Well, the re-election reduction cost of 20% comes to 0.5 yearly republican tradition assuming you always re-elect. The issue with suggesting that run is lanfang from what I remember is a pain to play as, unless they changed it recently. But we’ll spotted!
@@LemonCake101 I would consider it no more painful than any other nation in that area. The initial war against Brunei is tough and you need a good navy, but otherwise it's not too bad, and you start with a gold mine you could make your capital. Last time I was even able to force Ming to explode by blockading them for over a decade and just devastating their entire coastline XD
The main thing you're missing out is on the free policy from the Swiss Cantons, which does admittedly hurt but you'll be swimming in monarch points anyway, tis the whole idea of Republics.
@@CherriPicking that's fair, I guess I can call that an alternative solution. Well spotted!
I need to see it in action! Plz do a campaign!
I am tempted, although Eu4 campaigns that I route end up being either too easy or too insane at the same time. But I will bare that in mind!
Given that you take innovative you could also swap your religious gov reform to Seperate Clergy from State as a more ideal Religious policy.
That's a good point actually, I didn't think about that!
i was to see a history documentary of bizarre situations from games like eu4, you know like how an Italian city state conquered and ruled china
always pick let the lottery decide as venice 💪
The concept of the lottery election is amazing... let the randomness decide!
To be fair, FDR got elected for three terms and he would have finished that third one and probably go on for another if he didn't die mid term so it's not unrealistic to have someone reelected for the position of power until they die and it still being democratic.
Exactly, the more a person gets elected, the more democratic it becomes!
One benefit to stacking rep. tradition beyond the necessary limit is to be able to get away with decreasing it on republican events. it is fairly easy too with the Doge's Palace being so close.
Oh absolutely, which is why I mention a couple of the other free sources, but strictly speaking it’s not ‘necessary’.
Very Nice Build but i have tried it many Times but Italian Alliances are very difficult to beat as Bologna. Maybe i had very bad RNG or i have a skill issue but i'll try to do it again. Very Fun and Challenging.
Go for it, its not a trivial run! Its just a lot more doable then the runs I usually have to make, which involve 15 culture switches, 20 tag switches and 5 religion flips.
@@LemonCake101 Very True! And as soon as it gets going this nation is insanely strong
@@nuxx_1383 yup, Italy is a very nice place to expand once you get over the initial hurdles. Its like the land is already half devved for you!
The AI hugbox.. the early-game runkiller
@@MyUsersDark Nothing a few more loans can't fix
I love democracy I love the Republic
Correct answer!
I did a very similar build on Aragon as a Peasant Republic!
Except it was able to reach 100 Absolutism, instead of all these policies.
That's fair, I mean you can also get to 100 absolutism with these policies too, you just have to go through court and country and keep your crownland up. Sounds like a fun run!
Do you even need Bolognese ideas considering the policies, the advisors from attorney general, and how the extra mana from elections means you can strengthen government regularly for basically free?
Kind of, the ideas enable us to not have to go for other stuff which is more painful, but it is possible to get there without them.
>Ironman and achievements-competable
>Forms Sardinia-Piedmont in 2 weeks
The route is, never said I did it in the video ;)
Anyone else hearing three whenever he says free?
English hard :(
Have played a lot of saves in this very way with Democratic governments for the people
Certainly a way to play for sure!
Your mic sounds better in this vid! The rumbling is gone!
Ah thanks, good to know!
No forming the USA in this video? For shame LemonCake. You didn't even mention the country that possesses the "Arsenal of Democracy". You missed an opportunity to increase your Democracy levels.
I mean honestly, you should. The White House is quite good for its cost of re-election, but I decided to aim for a more 'realistic' approach
before the government reform update you could literally select parliamentary democracy as your governing form lol
Yeah, but damn that was a while back. In the good old days before missions, where you just randomly rolled an objective!
I played with Jewish republic, where with festivals u can gain traditions, and gain religion points through war
Yup, those are options, but this doesn't require festivals or winning wars, hence perfection! But yes, there are many options for maintaining 100 republican tradition.
Love u sir
Glad you enjoy the content!
6:48 bregnez ? 😂
.. that's what its called right?
@@LemonCake101 bregENz ( bree gents), sorry it was funny because i live here
@@Yes-kl5hk ah fair, honestly I was convinced it was one of the few pronunciations I got, good to know I am even more of a failure!
This is one of the easier ones to do
For sure!
Back in the dats (pre-1.30 i believe), all of national ideas were like 0.5 rep/traditions per year
As well as having Ismailite Muslim piety school
Later, it was nerfed to 0.3 per year
But
You still get 0.5 traditions per year if you INVITE Ismaili school
sounds like a Paradox moment, but yeah, honestly it made sense. Assuming no re-election cost modifiers, you need 2.5 yearly republican tradition to re-elect forever, and you can get there with just 3 0.5 rep tradition modifiers.
@@LemonCake101 hilarious part is you get 0.3 if your main school is Ismailite
Yet 0.5 inviting
Plus, I believe swipping from shia to sunni and then back plus estate exploit allows 0.8 yearly traditions per year for 20 years
@@Rosemarie_and_tomato there's also a couple other places that still give 0.5, but those might be intentional. Its certainly possible to get to 2.5 and hence not need any re-election cost, but targeting re-election cost is significantly easier.
It's so sad that we can't achieve the same level of democracy in real life (aka the re-electing the same man (48%)/woman (52%) for many terms). 🤔
Well… the advisors are 48% men 52% women. The actual leaders are all still generated as male, so the ‘glass ceiling’ as it where is still there actually.
no Sich Rada, disgusting, unsubscribed, and i'm pulling up to your nan's house with the Zaporizhian Host
also STATELESS SOCIETY tier 1 government reform is probably the most democratic, followed by something like the Great Peasant Republic or Sich Rada. Direct democracy beats confederalism every time baybee
Sich Rada is cool... but I get too much flak for making my runs too 'difficult' hence I had to go for something with 4 years that was easy to achieve.
🤗☺🤩😍🥰
Yes
If someone wants to play republics, atleast play as something cool like sich rada or dutch republic where its actually worth it to play as republic, instead of some other cringe generic republics.
Bruh even the normal ones are pretty good. Lots of monarch power without rng, and also you get to keep your stability
eh, I may say this as a person who likes Eu4 too much, but I will play pretty much anything. That's settled, I don't like playing natives or hordes.
Republics are viable for sure.