At 2:30, you can see the boost bypass valve is not fully closed, which is causing a large amount of boost to bleed off. The boost bypass valve is also not properly referenced, leave the lower vacuum line disconnected for this test. You can tell it is referenced incorrectly because when you let off the throttle, the flapper arm does not open. For the purpose of just running the engine on the dyno and not in a car, re-make the plate so that it does not have a passage for the bypass valve which will eliminate the variance in boost. Alternatively, you can also make sure the bypass valve is properly adjusted so that the arm is putting pressure on the set screw. You want the butterfly valve to be parallel with the supercharger. There's more to it than this, but for the sake of a short comment and just running an engine at WOT on a dyno, this will suffice.
I’d be happy to make him a custom pulley, I doubt the aftermarket ones available for the 3800 series are small enough for this application, but he will likely need to really tweak the routing to get maximum pulley wrap if going smaller. Makes me wonder why nobody runs a separate pulley and belt just for the blower, and run a cog belt like they used to, serpentine driven blowers making big boost are always fighting with slip... a cogged (toothed) belt solves the slippage.
TexasRoadWarrior probably a combination of smaller blower pulley and larger crank pulley. I bet they are using every last bit of air you can manage from an m90
the pulley is actually large lol, dropping several pulley sizes would definitely help along with a different crank pulley theres a aftermarket for the 3800 s/c setup so getting them wouldnt be hard
Jacob Burskey I doubt the aftermarket pulley options for the 3800 go small enough to make the kinda boost you need to feed an engine that flows twice as much as a 3800 but I’ve been wrong before. I know the 3800 guys still have trouble with belt slip when they up the power.
Just got home from work. Poured a beverage... youtube notification. 17 minute video of Richard testing a blower that the internet says is rubbish on a V8. Life is good. ☺
I am planning to do just this. Ive got a junkyard 302 out of an explorer going into a mercury mountaineer. Its the same motor, and the one already in the car has 1 m90 on it already. Hoping to make 400hp under 1k
Why would you even use them wimpy blowers for such a big engine....I bet you can make more HP with just a cam and headers and tune then you could with two of those wimpy things.....them little superchargers barely even bumped the horsepower up on the 3.8 V6.
The supercharger Bypass was OPEN. REMOVE the supercharger valve. Plug to hole in the plate. This M-90 will boost a 5.0 engine. THANKS for all your hard work. That has helped me. THANKS
Something is likely wrong since these m90s make max boost by 2000 engine RPM and the starting power is below even the stock 3.8's 240. I don't think the displacement is what matters as much as the CFM. Go back to 2000 when GM was making these and the n/a 3.8s had higher power output than ford's 4.6 modular since the heads flow more.
That’s awesome, I actually thought about pulling junk yard blowers for ANY car and assumed it would make power. Never thought about the restriction of air flow. Great test!
You lost power because your not using the correct set up superchargers do not run on factory drive assemblies the crank pulley is too small and that supercharger pulley is way too big for a V8 application the Eaton M90 powered the rough mustangs to 400+ HP for years
Love the test !! I’d like to maybe a GT500 blower or terminator blower on the 4.8L though. Might make the ultimate 1/2-ton truck trouble free upgrade (we all love turbos, but we all should be able to admit that an roots blower with modest demands its generally more maint. Free)
@@WS6xMASTER I was thinking larger since the SC was meant for a 3.8. Larger pullies would equal close to factory boost with the 3.8. Test it, then swap for smaller and see how much boost it will make. Although, the 4.8 breathes better than a 3.8 so a larger pulley swap probably wouldn't be needed.
Agreed, there is an actual benefit too dual blowers in that you dont need too spin them as hard too support the HP and that helps keep IAT's down. Would love too see the hard data
1. Verify the lower pulley size on the 3800 V6, maybe this m90 wasn't spinning fast enough. 2. Definitely try a twin setup, guys will only do it if it works. 3. Give us the pricing numbers so when it does work we can make the cost analysis against an Ebay turbo. Great content Richard, keep it up!
@@BustedWalletGarage True but its for a v8 and flows more cfms than the one in the video. Plus you can port the termi blowers easily for a good bump in air flow. Worth a try!
Rocketboyjerry the gt 500 uses an expensive throttle body and needs an intercooler. By the time you fabracobbled all that together you could get a good used complete Procharger system. I think the point of this video is “ garbage in, garbage out “.
BustedWalletGarage for the $5,000 that “good used” system cost you could build a legit reliable turbo system. The point is, I can buy a GT500 blower right now for $300. I think they normally go for $750? $900? Idk about a $4100 throttle body. I mean.... if I could buy a pro charger Complete (yea... more like supposed to be complete, but rarely is) used for $1500, that would be the deal.
Definitely go for the twin M90's. I had a friend when I worked at Eaton that put twin M90's on his Ford drag car in the late 1990's. It was a wild-looking thing. A single M90 on a 4.8L engine just can't supply enough air. You basically summed it up when you said the M90 was good for about 300 HP. The situation in this test would have been improved if you had just taken the belt off; then it would have made close to the NA power, with the supercharger windmilling in the breeze. If you can get two M90 5th-Gen's with the coated rotors, that would be even better. The coated rotors improved efficiency that added 20 HP to the supercharged 3800. I tested M112's and M122's at Eaton a lot. M122's weren't much of a step up from M112's because the intake port was no larger. The TVS series was a HUGE jump in performance because of the large intake port and improved port timings.
Your videos are awesome! I would love to see a video with a smaller pulley and then a follow up with a 112 blower. I think gradually getting bigger and badder would be fun
This was a cool test. Smaller pulley, twin superchargers. Was literally my first thought when the video started lol. I bet this engine could put down 580-620hp with two. Depending on pulley size. If you built a box design intake, you could even run three superchargers. One on top and one on each side. Would make a sweet looking rat rod engine.
I'd like to see you do this in stages to overcome this problem, smaller turbo wheel bigger crank wheel then if that doesn't work slap on a second m90 and go through the gauntlet again. Great content, looking forward to seeing how this one plays out
Hey my favorite engine finally came up in your videos! I build these 3800's as a hobby. They are very stout little fellas. Currently working on my own little turbo 3800 right now. Aiming for 700hp.
@@snoopy5736 got a forged rotating assembly, oversized head studs, and a whole bunch of strengthened valvetrain parts. It's definitely not gonna blow up.
@@Aseutester I am a tuner. 😃 This is just one of my side projects. Current output is 600bhp on 18lbs of boost. This one was particularly tricky as the MAF runs out at around 9lbs and there's no 2bar OS, so fueling after about 5000rpm has to be done with PE tables.
I’ve been really curious about doing something like this for a long time now I am so glad that you put this together!!! (Also yes you need to test the M 122 and a double setup!!)
My friend Bobby Calhoun has two M90's on his 1UZFE (4.0 quad cam). Seems like they move enough air, but this answers my question as to whether they're worth running a single or not. Haha Thanks for the info, and quality entertainment! Keep up the good work man!
So glad I watched till the end. I wanted to recommend the compound set up of a large turbo blowing into the m90, but I see you already thought of that. There used to be a Hellion kit for the Terminator Mustangs that added twins that blow into the stock SC. Sucks that the m90 is too small for this. I still think it would do good on a 4.3 in a rock buggy. Keep up the awesome work Richard!!!
First saw you on those Engine Masters episodes & thought you were sufficiently knowledgeable (and just corny enough) to do your own channel, & boy was I right. I've had a youtube account for probably 15 years, and youre the 1st & only channel I've subscribed/bell'd/etc, just because youve got crazy content for free. Not that you asked, just wanted to share. & say thanks. So, thanks! & to answer your question: do it. All of it. Smaller pulleys, ported blowers, better throttle bodies, TWIN BLOWN. Yes. Double Yes.
Yes please do....also that supercharger in all the tests I've seen did better at higher rpms anyways so a high ram intake just makes sense to me......in the bottom end of the rpm spectrum there is very little if any boost so it needs 3500 plus to build boost from the jump....question is does the superchargers life expectancy suffer from using it in this application running it at higher rpms will it live past 100 pulls/races if it were put to use ?
Your videos improve every time i watch them and the information is presented very nicely. What about volumetric efficiency? Does this come into this test? Overdrive that thing 50%+ and see what happends
On a stock 3800 s/c (l67 engine code) the crank pulley size is 6.95 inches, Would love to see more tests done with a 3800 and to see some of the platforms myths busted too! plenty of interesting tests could be done but im not sure if the fan base here would be interested in seeing v6 stuff sadly. They can make 600+ hp with a turbo for those semi curious
i like this concept, although i don't like the v6 throttle body used here. that is likely a restriction on the v8. this is something i would willingly attempt
@MrJohn613 Budget Builds I know a guy that put one of these on 3.0 V6 in a Dodge Shadow, stock injectors with a Vortech FMU for fuel, no timing adjustment at all and went in the 12s on slicks. I totally agree having a much bigger throttle body and porting the blower would help!
@@lilsammywasapunkrock Yea, the difference is that Mike now works for Magnussen and the project car is his son's. For a while, he was an engineer for Eaton, and way back in the day his dad had a mustang with twin turbos off of the 2.3L fords while Mike had a bunch of different combinations (turbo and supercharged) in an 80's T-bird.
I put a m90 on a jeep wrangler 4.0. With that in line with 5.5 pounds of boost. It was a beast. M90 works awesome on jeeps inline. Just won't unless modified on 05 an 06. Anything below a 05 the m90 is a beast
I always wanted to run a whipple blower on my 3800. With a Gen V m90 I managed a little over 420fwhp in my Bonneville but a whipple would have been crazy.
I would like to see the affects of water/meth injection on the some of the boosted applications (pre charger/post, intercooler/ pre ignition reduction. Air temps ect. )
Interesting! I have 3800 that was superchargered and i pulled blower apart and blocked it off and slapped a turbo on it... 3800 loves turbos... aint no ls but its ok
Use BOTH Supercharger and TURBO. It works. Drove a 8v-92 Detroit Diesel, the the FACTORY made. The TURBO blew into the supercharger. TWO CYCLE DETROIT DIESELS MOVE ALOT OF AIR.
The only reason it is seeming too small is due to the 3.8 inch pulley. The 3rd gen m90 blower reaches 90% volumetric efficiency at about 12k~rpm blower speed. Assuming his stock crank pulley is similar to that of a 3800(about 7.5 inches) he's under a 2:1 pulley ratio. That means the blower didn't even reach peak case efficiency until nearly 6000 engine rpm. The benefit to a small roots blower is its ability to turn more Rpm. Take into account that this same blower has put a 3700lb fwd car into the 10s. I think if it were to drop pulleys down to a 2.8, he could get enough volume of air to pass 400 crank hp with no issues. These have supported 400 whp in fwd auto combos aswell and he could throw an ati super damper and pick up even more blower speed. Also this combo could retain an alternator with zzps 100$ belt wrap kit that would keep tension for the blower and alternator both.
@@madmod regardless of that cars' weight, what engine was it? Even with pulley swaps, the M90 can only produce a certain amount of air. The faster you spin the blower, the greater the amount of heat produced which will ultimately cost power.
I believe the stock crank comes to just about 7.5 inches on a 3800. For comparison, I knew I needed more blower speed for the m90 to feed my 4.6, I opted for a lightning lower crank pulley which can be had up to 10.25 inch diameter. On the stock 3.8 inch blower pulley, it makes for a 2.7:1 pulley ratio with room to drop pulley sizes down to get up to a 400% blower overdrive with a 2.8 zzp pulley. Now comes the problem of dealing with the heat haha.
I would love to see a compound test. I have a 4.3 V6 with twin turbos compounded to an m90 drawing through a predator carb and does pretty good. I’m mixing race gas for about 102 octane. 18-20 lbs boost .haven’t had it on the dyno yet
Crank pulley on the 3800 s/c engine is 6.94” diameter (7”) and there is an aftermarket 5% blower overdrive available. The smallest pulley available for the m90 is 2.55” and requires clearancing the ribs on the snout of the blower. The other option is offset pulleys, which you could then theoretically go smaller, but has issues fitting in the fwd cars with full accessories. Running a 3800 with stock crank pulley and the 2.55” blower pulley they put down almost exactly 400hp to the wheels, give or take 10hp. With drivetrain losses that comes to approximately 460hp at the crank. If you could run a 2.55 pulley on the m90, with a massive crank pulley (since it’s on an engine dyno and just for fun anyway, you could get away with a huge pulley, like 9” or 10” and really over spin that m90, but I bet it starts to cavitate air and doesn’t make gains beyond the 500hp airflow mark, that’s where you’ll need to run two m90s side by side (and slightly lower rpm) to get enough airflow to make big power out of the 4.8
Yeah after checking my research again, that 399whp dyno pull was on a cts-v after swapping pulley to 2.55” NOT on a 3800. Looks like the baddest 3800s out there with all the bells n whistles are putting out around 375whp on their very best days. Still curious to see what a smaller blower pulley and larger crank pulley will do, but it still probably won’t be able to keep up with the airflow needs of the 4.8. If so then a dual m90 setup would be cool to see, just to see what you can do with junkyard trash.
Hittman1422, without porting, chasing power will be a battle between boost and heat. More so, to the point of where the M90 is efficient. M122 is where takes over where the m90 maxes out to and does so more efficiently without the heat the M90 generates.
On our 3800 we ran an M90 and made over 400whp. We used an overdriven balancer and a 61mm blower pulley. With heads/cam blower porting etc. The car ran 10.79@126mph @3500lb. Video on my page. Was way back on 2008/9.
I’d like to see the m112 off the lightning then the M122 all on the same motor individual testing then dual M90 blowers. Like junkyard dog is doing to his 5.0
allanb3222 right but the M112 you can pick up for 450-500$ and the M122 you can get for 650-700$ which is relatively cheap compared to a Weiand. And the people who would be interested in making one of these blowers work would most likely be able to fab up a lower intake and or do like B&M back in the day and make a plate to bolt to a 4150 flange then to a blower bottom plate.
I had a buddy back in high school who put one of those blowers on his 260 v8 that he had in his falcon. It was kinda hodgepodged to gether with a plate thing that bolted to a Victor jr intake and a home adapter that bolted where the throttle body went for a carburetor it had issues. The weight of the blower or belt tensioner was what's too much for that threads in the intake where the carburetor would normally bolt down it would pull those out but it did but it did make a difference in how it ran . nothing crazy to write home about it did let it do big burn outs lol
The blower was probably wore out. Remember when david freiburger dynoed the blue impala with the blown crusher camaro engine at westech. He went smaller and smaller on pulleys with little to no gain in boost
I have an m90 on 292 inline chev.. added to help overcome the less than optimal head design and to add low end and mid range torque for towing. I am running at higher blower speed ( relevant to crank rpm) but engine will probably never see 5000 rpm. I’m firing it up in the next week or two and I’m sure hopeful for a better result!!!
I'd imagine that the 4.8L can breath more air than the M90 is able to push into it. Would be interesting to see a M112 or M122 off the Ford Lighting / Mustang GT500 would do on a 4.8-5.3L. Would be interesting to see if they are efficient enough to actually produce some boost.
I may just do it this spring. Already have a ported m90 on my car, and a cheap 50/60 turbocharger lying around.. but turbo would be mounted in the trunk. Im doing a mod that requires the spare tire well to be cutout, so would be quick & simple!
Zenithskull mine is not an Ls it is a 3.8l l67, and it’s not stock ,2.7”pulley ported blower and heads cam etc and made 400+ rwhp ran best of 10.88 @ 122 so blower is pretty much maxed
I'm curious if the M90 would be more able to keep up with a smaller engine like the Toyota 1UZ. It's both closer to the M90s original engine displacement (4.0 V8 vs the 3.8 V6) and closer to the original horsepower (stock 1UZ hp is around 240-250hp). Make sure you get one of the early "thick rod" (pre-95) blocks if you try it though!
Whats going on with the plenum floor at 5:00 minutes? The front 4 runner are covered in oil. Blower puking oil? Maybe run your headers with 8 O2 sensors and see what air distribution looks like if the oil stain is any indication of where the flow is travelling.
@@richardholdener1727Just a guess here - With the motor pulling more air than the blower can supply (as the dyno runs showed) the plenum goes into a vacuum state and pulls oil past the seals of the M90. Now the 4 oily runners could be that the oil is heavier than air and doesn't want to do a 90 degree turn to the rear runners. Or is it so choked down that the air is just following the path of least resistance from the M90 outlet to the front half of the plenum. Maybe have a look at the plugs and see if anything was leaned out. Keep up the great work.
Since cfm is dependent on rpm, and this blower doesn’t flow enough cfm to support big hp numbers upstairs, can you optimize this setup for low rpm power? 7,000 rpm power is moot for trail jeeps , but sub-3500 power is king. Maybe the factory cam, a heater core intercooler, and a tiny pulley?
Curious, many years ago people ran Eaton blowers on Rover V8s, genetically related to the 3.8 in the big picture, but anyway, there were issues with fuel distribution and I wonder if those rear cylinders are getting less than those closer to the opening. Any indication of this due to the orientation of the fitment even if you used a larger blower?
I agree, twins would look like the old Magnacharger MC 220 and thats something that would be "doable" because the M-90's are cheap at the junkyards! You and i think alot alike!
@@s1mph0ny the Gen 5 is already a 75mm inlet, so the Northstar isn't an upgrade on a Gen 5. Porting the hell out of the inlet and adapting an LS throttle body would be cool to see, though.
I think if you put a tiny pulley on that thing your charge temps would approach plasma levels. The rotors on those things are absolutely tiny. Would 2 work better? Yes, but with the parasitic loss of running 2, I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't get back to NA numbers. Either way I love these videos. Keep it up!
I put one on 4.9 Ford inline 6 with a pulley ratio around 3 to 1, the best was 7 psi, had 10 at one time but only down low so I figured I was out of in efficiency range. I then added a turbo after that and now I make 25 psi blowing through the m90. The supercharger takes care of any turbolag and the turbo makes the large boost numbers
You might be disappointed. Often when you combine turbos with a positive displacement supercharger the supercharger gets you quick spooling from the turbos but the supercharger becomes a restriction at high rpm/boost.
Matej Šimek rev limiter set at 6,000 but mostly drive it below 5,000 I try to be conscious of that because I’m worried about breaking the crank (4.3V6) turbos make 8 lbs combined 18-20 lbs
Confirm that your superchargers actually spinning at the correct speed before you make an assumption you didn't even know what the pulley size was for a stock 3.8 L V6 on the crank what is kind of important determine the RPM of the supercharger
I was ok with old school chevy 350s i knew how to get power but now i am trying to learn the LS stuff and it seems like i am starting all over again.I like your show it has the best info on the internet .I would like to see how you would put 2 blowers on that motor
I have the 2002 Holden VX series 2 with a factory m90 powered 3.8 Buick block putting out roughly 171 kw from factory (229hp). Which actual model was yours from??
@Richard Holdener. Seasoned 3800 enthusiast here. I think you did not have the m90's boost bypass valve set correctly. When the engine was not running in the video I noticed the lever is up, plus you have a red hose going to the dyno, Remove that. If plugged the valve holds the last position. The lever should set flat against the stud when off, When idling it will lift off the stud. I think you were bleeding boost during your run. Also the stock diameter of the L67 Series 2 crank pulley is roughly 7 1/8" diameter.
Lone Wolf Customs Heck yes !! 300whp is enough to kill a D16 over time. But super cool while it last. Maybe on E85 it can survive (doubt though, poor rods)
@@bryanleverett2830 everything Richard does in these videos will kill all of these engines over time. That's what tuning does, it exponentially shortens life.
180TQ on stock D-Series rods or you're asking for trouble. The stock pistons will outlast the rods. Basicly the same concept, but Jackson Racing made a roots blower intake manifold unit back in the day. You can still find them for sale every once in a while, but they're discontinued.
@@tommylyeah I'm thinking of a low-buck way of supercharging a Civic will it blow up over time probably but most engines will but if the unit would make decent power then you upgrade some rods and head gaskets and potentially a fun toy
Question for Richard: I just bought an M90 with the intent of sticking into the engine bay of a Lexus SC300. I think I can squeeze it in between the block and tire well, with a plenum curving up to a stock lower intake manifold on the 2 JZ. The plenum box would only be about 1" wide, meaning the outlet air from the blower would be forced to turn a sharp 90* turn just below the vanes. My goal would only be maybe 350 horsepower. Do you think a narrow plenum would work ?
@@richardholdener1727 the M90 would be setting on it's side under the intake stubs. The throttle body would be under the master cylinder. The outlet of the blower would face the wheel well. A curved plenum would arch over to the lower intake manifold. The plenum would only be about 1" wide due to space limitations.
I want to put one of these on my 350z engine. I saw a guy do it the other day and I think it'd be awesome for that low power engine. I saw a guy make 350 whp with one (stock they are about 250whp)
id go tvs 1900. you can get gen 4 rec port to cathedral port adapters for like 200-250. m122 plates are 1300-1400 and the tvs1900 is better then a m122
If you still have that 3800 I'd love to see how much power one can make with some big turbos before it breaks. It's a pretty underrated motor outside of the midwest.
There was a truck for sale in WI just recently summer of ‘24 with a custom intake built for 2 m90’s that ran, it was god awful ugly but I respect the dude for his time. Intake mani was all steel..basically came up just above the heads, spread over them with a flat plate and 2 m90’s lol.. Then a barn fell on the truck. Guess he blew it first run lol. Said it made some respectable boost. I was roadkill garage worthy for sure
why are you using the v6 throttle body? thats very restrictive. what if you put a smaller pulley on the supercharger and use a proper v8 throttle body. most people place the throttle body after the supercharger. i like the setup, i think it would be very cool with a m112 or m122 and a proper v8 sized throttle body
@@richardholdener1727 i realize that wouldn't work in your application, but in side mount m90 applications, thats how they do it, similar to a centrifugal supercharger. i realize you cant do that but perhaps a smaller pulley and a bigger V8 throttlebody might help? thanks for the reply
At 2:30, you can see the boost bypass valve is not fully closed, which is causing a large amount of boost to bleed off. The boost bypass valve is also not properly referenced, leave the lower vacuum line disconnected for this test. You can tell it is referenced incorrectly because when you let off the throttle, the flapper arm does not open. For the purpose of just running the engine on the dyno and not in a car, re-make the plate so that it does not have a passage for the bypass valve which will eliminate the variance in boost. Alternatively, you can also make sure the bypass valve is properly adjusted so that the arm is putting pressure on the set screw. You want the butterfly valve to be parallel with the supercharger. There's more to it than this, but for the sake of a short comment and just running an engine at WOT on a dyno, this will suffice.
I would like to see what the blower with a tiny pulley would do
I’d be happy to make him a custom pulley, I doubt the aftermarket ones available for the 3800 series are small enough for this application, but he will likely need to really tweak the routing to get maximum pulley wrap if going smaller. Makes me wonder why nobody runs a separate pulley and belt just for the blower, and run a cog belt like they used to, serpentine driven blowers making big boost are always fighting with slip... a cogged (toothed) belt solves the slippage.
Robert Ambrose the Saleen 4.6 2vs manage to get 390hp out of these
TexasRoadWarrior probably a combination of smaller blower pulley and larger crank pulley. I bet they are using every last bit of air you can manage from an m90
the pulley is actually large lol, dropping several pulley sizes would definitely help along with a different crank pulley
theres a aftermarket for the 3800 s/c setup so getting them wouldnt be hard
Jacob Burskey I doubt the aftermarket pulley options for the 3800 go small enough to make the kinda boost you need to feed an engine that flows twice as much as a 3800 but I’ve been wrong before. I know the 3800 guys still have trouble with belt slip when they up the power.
Just got home from work. Poured a beverage... youtube notification. 17 minute video of Richard testing a blower that the internet says is rubbish on a V8. Life is good. ☺
I too would like to see what an Eaton m122 off a gt500 could do on this same setup.
Or the 112 from the Terminator cobras
Definitely m122 gt500 blower. Twin m90s would be cool though
Seen lots of those set ups. They do well.
I have a MP112 which is the Eaton m112 head unit. Makes about another 100-150hp at 6psi depending on your set up.
imgur.com/a/jxNtd7L Just got it put together a while ago. It's an M122 on a 408 SBF.
Would love to see a twin M90 setup. Blown junkyard build up on the cheap! That would be super cool to see.
I am planning to do just this. Ive got a junkyard 302 out of an explorer going into a mercury mountaineer. Its the same motor, and the one already in the car has 1 m90 on it already. Hoping to make 400hp under 1k
Why would you even use them wimpy blowers for such a big engine....I bet you can make more HP with just a cam and headers and tune then you could with two of those wimpy things.....them little superchargers barely even bumped the horsepower up on the 3.8 V6.
I have seen it done and it looks awesome
Yes do more testing with the M90!
The supercharger Bypass was OPEN.
REMOVE the supercharger valve.
Plug to hole in the plate.
This M-90 will boost a 5.0 engine.
THANKS for all your hard work.
That has helped me.
THANKS
Something is likely wrong since these m90s make max boost by 2000 engine RPM and the starting power is below even the stock 3.8's 240. I don't think the displacement is what matters as much as the CFM. Go back to 2000 when GM was making these and the n/a 3.8s had higher power output than ford's 4.6 modular since the heads flow more.
That’s awesome, I actually thought about pulling junk yard blowers for ANY car and assumed it would make power. Never thought about the restriction of air flow. Great test!
How could you never think about the lack of air flow, ???
"BOOM! We lost a bunch of power!"
You lost power because your not using the correct set up superchargers do not run on factory drive assemblies the crank pulley is too small and that supercharger pulley is way too big for a V8 application the Eaton M90 powered the rough mustangs to 400+ HP for years
@@patrickmonroe9062thought that was the m112 that did that?
@@patrickmonroe9062 mustangs used a bigger eaton supercharger. they used the m120, no the m90
Love the test !! I’d like to maybe a GT500 blower or terminator blower on the 4.8L though. Might make the ultimate 1/2-ton truck trouble free upgrade (we all love turbos, but we all should be able to admit that an roots blower with modest demands its generally more maint. Free)
The blower would make good low end torque for a truck. I'd want to sandwich a heat exchanger in there though.
You will eventually blow a spark plug out
Do a twin charged episode
I thought the same. Twin sc with slightly bigger pullies. Pretty sure I have seen that at a lemons race 😂
Ben Dodson smaller pulleys*
@@WS6xMASTER I was thinking larger since the SC was meant for a 3.8. Larger pullies would equal close to factory boost with the 3.8. Test it, then swap for smaller and see how much boost it will make.
Although, the 4.8 breathes better than a 3.8 so a larger pulley swap probably wouldn't be needed.
I have a 5.3 with twin m90s
Agreed, there is an actual benefit too dual blowers in that you dont need too spin them as hard too support the HP and that helps keep IAT's down. Would love too see the hard data
1. Verify the lower pulley size on the 3800 V6, maybe this m90 wasn't spinning fast enough.
2. Definitely try a twin setup, guys will only do it if it works.
3. Give us the pricing numbers so when it does work we can make the cost analysis against an Ebay turbo.
Great content Richard, keep it up!
Man I'd love to see a terminator cobra M112 blower on there or two!!! 🤘🇺🇲🦅
Rocketboyjerry those aren’t much bigger. The cobra motor is only 4.6 liter and revs to the moon
Just posted the same. Or a GT500 blower
@@BustedWalletGarage True but its for a v8 and flows more cfms than the one in the video. Plus you can port the termi blowers easily for a good bump in air flow. Worth a try!
Rocketboyjerry the gt 500 uses an expensive throttle body and needs an intercooler. By the time you fabracobbled all that together you could get a good used complete Procharger system. I think the point of this video is “ garbage in, garbage out “.
BustedWalletGarage for the $5,000 that “good used” system cost you could build a legit reliable turbo system. The point is, I can buy a GT500 blower right now for $300. I think they normally go for $750? $900? Idk about a $4100 throttle body.
I mean.... if I could buy a pro charger Complete (yea... more like supposed to be complete, but rarely is) used for $1500, that would be the deal.
Definitely go for the twin M90's. I had a friend when I worked at Eaton that put twin M90's on his Ford drag car in the late 1990's. It was a wild-looking thing. A single M90 on a 4.8L engine just can't supply enough air. You basically summed it up when you said the M90 was good for about 300 HP. The situation in this test would have been improved if you had just taken the belt off; then it would have made close to the NA power, with the supercharger windmilling in the breeze.
If you can get two M90 5th-Gen's with the coated rotors, that would be even better. The coated rotors improved efficiency that added 20 HP to the supercharged 3800. I tested M112's and M122's at Eaton a lot. M122's weren't much of a step up from M112's because the intake port was no larger. The TVS series was a HUGE jump in performance because of the large intake port and improved port timings.
Your videos are awesome! I would love to see a video with a smaller pulley and then a follow up with a 112 blower. I think gradually getting bigger and badder would be fun
Dr. Frankenstein I love watching you build your monsters. Build them all. Who knows one of your creations might surprise us all. Awesome stuff .
This was a cool test. Smaller pulley, twin superchargers. Was literally my first thought when the video started lol. I bet this engine could put down 580-620hp with two. Depending on pulley size. If you built a box design intake, you could even run three superchargers. One on top and one on each side. Would make a sweet looking rat rod engine.
That was definitely something I have always wanted to know owning a v6 supercharged engine before.
I’d say stock motor and stock blower. At this point let’s see a smaller pully since the motor has work keep it going.
Would love too see what that m90 does with a smaller pulley(
I would like to see this continue. Twins would be amazing just to see.
I'd like to see you do this in stages to overcome this problem, smaller turbo wheel bigger crank wheel then if that doesn't work slap on a second m90 and go through the gauntlet again. Great content, looking forward to seeing how this one plays out
Would you be interested In letting me ship you a full stack intercooler a set of pulleys 3in and under and a way bigger throttle body with an adapter
Good god someone pin this comment!
^ This please!
👍👍👍👍
And add some race fuel + bigger size injector that combo ! 👆🏼
I’d be interested
Hey my favorite engine finally came up in your videos! I build these 3800's as a hobby. They are very stout little fellas. Currently working on my own little turbo 3800 right now. Aiming for 700hp.
It'll blow up
@@snoopy5736 got a forged rotating assembly, oversized head studs, and a whole bunch of strengthened valvetrain parts. It's definitely not gonna blow up.
@@DeagledSmeagol Anything can be destroyed by the tune/r, get somebody competent to do it!
@@Aseutester I am a tuner. 😃 This is just one of my side projects. Current output is 600bhp on 18lbs of boost.
This one was particularly tricky as the MAF runs out at around 9lbs and there's no 2bar OS, so fueling after about 5000rpm has to be done with PE tables.
I’ve been really curious about doing something like this for a long time now I am so glad that you put this together!!! (Also yes you need to test the M 122 and a double setup!!)
That intake still has longer runners than most supercharger manifolds! I like it
My friend Bobby Calhoun has two M90's on his 1UZFE (4.0 quad cam). Seems like they move enough air, but this answers my question as to whether they're worth running a single or not. Haha
Thanks for the info, and quality entertainment! Keep up the good work man!
So glad I watched till the end. I wanted to recommend the compound set up of a large turbo blowing into the m90, but I see you already thought of that. There used to be a Hellion kit for the Terminator Mustangs that added twins that blow into the stock SC. Sucks that the m90 is too small for this. I still think it would do good on a 4.3 in a rock buggy. Keep up the awesome work Richard!!!
First saw you on those Engine Masters episodes & thought you were sufficiently knowledgeable (and just corny enough) to do your own channel, & boy was I right. I've had a youtube account for probably 15 years, and youre the 1st & only channel I've subscribed/bell'd/etc, just because youve got crazy content for free. Not that you asked, just wanted to share. & say thanks. So, thanks!
& to answer your question: do it. All of it. Smaller pulleys, ported blowers, better throttle bodies, TWIN BLOWN. Yes. Double Yes.
Thats badass backyard engineering! Even if didnt work...... forget twins and go w triplets for freaky lookin old skool effect!
Yes please do....also that supercharger in all the tests I've seen did better at higher rpms anyways so a high ram intake just makes sense to me......in the bottom end of the rpm spectrum there is very little if any boost so it needs 3500 plus to build boost from the jump....question is does the superchargers life expectancy suffer from using it in this application running it at higher rpms will it live past 100 pulls/races if it were put to use ?
Your videos improve every time i watch them and the information is presented very nicely.
What about volumetric efficiency? Does this come into this test?
Overdrive that thing 50%+ and see what happends
On a stock 3800 s/c (l67 engine code) the crank pulley size is 6.95 inches, Would love to see more tests done with a 3800 and to see some of the platforms myths busted too! plenty of interesting tests could be done but im not sure if the fan base here would be interested in seeing v6 stuff sadly.
They can make 600+ hp with a turbo for those semi curious
Reminded me of the late 90s and being on the Geocities site reading about Mike Sitar's thunderbird with twin Eatons! )
i like this concept, although i don't like the v6 throttle body used here. that is likely a restriction on the v8. this is something i would willingly attempt
@MrJohn613 Budget Builds I know a guy that put one of these on 3.0 V6 in a Dodge Shadow, stock injectors with a Vortech FMU for fuel, no timing adjustment at all and went in the 12s on slicks. I totally agree having a much bigger throttle body and porting the blower would help!
Www.toohighpsi.com
The website is still around.
@@lilsammywasapunkrock Yea, the difference is that Mike now works for Magnussen and the project car is his son's. For a while, he was an engineer for Eaton, and way back in the day his dad had a mustang with twin turbos off of the 2.3L fords while Mike had a bunch of different combinations (turbo and supercharged) in an 80's T-bird.
I put a m90 on a jeep wrangler 4.0. With that in line with 5.5 pounds of boost. It was a beast. M90 works awesome on jeeps inline. Just won't unless modified on 05 an 06. Anything below a 05 the m90 is a beast
The "Junkyard Dogg" channel is building a twin m90 5.0 in a fox body. Y'all should go check it out.
I always wanted to run a whipple blower on my 3800. With a Gen V m90 I managed a little over 420fwhp in my Bonneville but a whipple would have been crazy.
I'd like to see the 2 m90s, you can use the alternator in between to get good wrap on the 2 blowers.
Easy but expensive fix, swap the M90 for a 4.0 L Whipple. Junkyard fix, make a triangle top to the high Ram and add 2 M90's. Great episode Richard.
I would like to see the affects of water/meth injection on the some of the boosted applications (pre charger/post, intercooler/ pre ignition reduction. Air temps ect. )
I love your vids. All the different combos, and goofy concoctions, that I think about during the day.
Interesting! I have 3800 that was superchargered and i pulled blower apart and blocked it off and slapped a turbo on it... 3800 loves turbos... aint no ls but its ok
Use BOTH
Supercharger and TURBO.
It works.
Drove a 8v-92 Detroit Diesel, the the FACTORY made.
The TURBO blew into the supercharger. TWO CYCLE DETROIT DIESELS MOVE ALOT OF AIR.
@@nellyfarnsworth7381 makes more torque than im interested in... lol manual fwd transmissions are already questionable lol
@@Garageless
I have read these before, In magazines.
BUT IS WRONG
1968 Oldsmobile Tornado 455 cid WITH 385 hp & 500 ft/lbs.
Is a excellent example.
@@nellyfarnsworth7381 search twincharge fiero dyno there is 3800 makin 300hp and 490tq all details in description
Loved my 3800 Grand Prix even stock
Junkyard parts testing... Exactly what I would be doing with access to a Dyno 👍. Love it!
I'd try twin M90s before getting into the trick parts. It's pretty obvious it's way too small... but let's spin it until it blows up lol
The "Junkyard Dogg" channel is building a twin m90 5.0 in a fox body. Youl should go check it out.
They can spin 16k rpm reliably, past that they are just inefficient, but I've seen as high as 20k rpm before they grenade lol.
It'd be hella cool lookin' too
The only reason it is seeming too small is due to the 3.8 inch pulley. The 3rd gen m90 blower reaches 90% volumetric efficiency at about 12k~rpm blower speed. Assuming his stock crank pulley is similar to that of a 3800(about 7.5 inches) he's under a 2:1 pulley ratio. That means the blower didn't even reach peak case efficiency until nearly 6000 engine rpm. The benefit to a small roots blower is its ability to turn more Rpm. Take into account that this same blower has put a 3700lb fwd car into the 10s. I think if it were to drop pulleys down to a 2.8, he could get enough volume of air to pass 400 crank hp with no issues. These have supported 400 whp in fwd auto combos aswell and he could throw an ati super damper and pick up even more blower speed. Also this combo could retain an alternator with zzps 100$ belt wrap kit that would keep tension for the blower and alternator both.
@@madmod regardless of that cars' weight, what engine was it? Even with pulley swaps, the M90 can only produce a certain amount of air. The faster you spin the blower, the greater the amount of heat produced which will ultimately cost power.
I believe the stock crank comes to just about 7.5 inches on a 3800. For comparison, I knew I needed more blower speed for the m90 to feed my 4.6, I opted for a lightning lower crank pulley which can be had up to 10.25 inch diameter. On the stock 3.8 inch blower pulley, it makes for a 2.7:1 pulley ratio with room to drop pulley sizes down to get up to a 400% blower overdrive with a 2.8 zzp pulley. Now comes the problem of dealing with the heat haha.
I would love to see a compound test. I have a 4.3 V6 with twin turbos compounded to an m90 drawing through a predator carb and does pretty good. I’m mixing race gas for about 102 octane. 18-20 lbs boost .haven’t had it on the dyno yet
All can be see on my page
Crank pulley on the 3800 s/c engine is 6.94” diameter (7”) and there is an aftermarket 5% blower overdrive available. The smallest pulley available for the m90 is 2.55” and requires clearancing the ribs on the snout of the blower. The other option is offset pulleys, which you could then theoretically go smaller, but has issues fitting in the fwd cars with full accessories. Running a 3800 with stock crank pulley and the 2.55” blower pulley they put down almost exactly 400hp to the wheels, give or take 10hp. With drivetrain losses that comes to approximately 460hp at the crank. If you could run a 2.55 pulley on the m90, with a massive crank pulley (since it’s on an engine dyno and just for fun anyway, you could get away with a huge pulley, like 9” or 10” and really over spin that m90, but I bet it starts to cavitate air and doesn’t make gains beyond the 500hp airflow mark, that’s where you’ll need to run two m90s side by side (and slightly lower rpm) to get enough airflow to make big power out of the 4.8
400 wheel would be a lot from the M90
Yeah after checking my research again, that 399whp dyno pull was on a cts-v after swapping pulley to 2.55” NOT on a 3800. Looks like the baddest 3800s out there with all the bells n whistles are putting out around 375whp on their very best days. Still curious to see what a smaller blower pulley and larger crank pulley will do, but it still probably won’t be able to keep up with the airflow needs of the 4.8. If so then a dual m90 setup would be cool to see, just to see what you can do with junkyard trash.
Loving the SO to Brandon Furches and the LS4 community!
BRANDON IS GOOD PEOPLE
I vote more testing with the m90. At least see if theres any gains to be had.
I'd like to see if the pullied m90 would do. But even better, a used m112 or m122 test would be great since they're relatively cheap
Richard, I’d love to see you max the m90 to see what power it will support. ZZP makes a lot of pulleys
Hittman1422, without porting, chasing power will be a battle between boost and heat. More so, to the point of where the M90 is efficient. M122 is where takes over where the m90 maxes out to and does so more efficiently without the heat the M90 generates.
I’d love to see two super chargers , I love to see straight junk yard stuff being used.
See how far you can go to optimize the 1 m90, that's something no-one EVER shows
On our 3800 we ran an M90 and made over 400whp. We used an overdriven balancer and a 61mm blower pulley. With heads/cam blower porting etc. The car ran 10.79@126mph @3500lb. Video on my page. Was way back on 2008/9.
nice job
I’d like to see the m112 off the lightning then the M122 all on the same motor individual testing then dual M90 blowers. Like junkyard dog is doing to his 5.0
That would be cool, but your not finding those blowers in the junkyard lol.
allanb3222 right but the M112 you can pick up for 450-500$ and the M122 you can get for 650-700$ which is relatively cheap compared to a Weiand.
And the people who would be interested in making one of these blowers work would most likely be able to fab up a lower intake and or do like B&M back in the day and make a plate to bolt to a 4150 flange then to a blower bottom plate.
@@allanb3222
M90 are in pick & pull yards
@@nellyfarnsworth7381 yeah but not m112 or m122, like he is wanting.
I had a buddy back in high school who put one of those blowers on his 260 v8 that he had in his falcon. It was kinda hodgepodged to gether with a plate thing that bolted to a Victor jr intake and a home adapter that bolted where the throttle body went for a carburetor it had issues. The weight of the blower or belt tensioner was what's too much for that threads in the intake where the carburetor would normally bolt down it would pull those out but it did but it did make a difference in how it ran . nothing crazy to write home about it did let it do big burn outs lol
The blower was probably wore out. Remember when david freiburger dynoed the blue impala with the blown crusher camaro engine at westech. He went smaller and smaller on pulleys with little to no gain in boost
I have an m90 on 292 inline chev.. added to help overcome the less than optimal head design and to add low end and mid range torque for towing. I am running at higher blower speed ( relevant to crank rpm) but engine will probably never see 5000 rpm. I’m firing it up in the next week or two and I’m sure hopeful for a better result!!!
I'd imagine that the 4.8L can breath more air than the M90 is able to push into it. Would be interesting to see a M112 or M122 off the Ford Lighting / Mustang GT500 would do on a 4.8-5.3L. Would be interesting to see if they are efficient enough to actually produce some boost.
He ran that test, did you watch it?
@@corvetteZ3r I did not see the test with the Eaton M112-M122. Only the one with the M90
@@EvanAxer it’s there. Look up eBay cad blower and it should pop up if not I’ll link it
@@corvetteZ3r cool I'll check it out. Thanks.
Different supercharger pulley? Might give more power if you change the pulley?
Would love to see the compound setup with a turbo blowing into the m90, been thinking of trying this myself
Not efficient, the m90 is a choking it at that point
I may just do it this spring. Already have a ported m90 on my car, and a cheap 50/60 turbocharger lying around.. but turbo would be mounted in the trunk. Im doing a mod that requires the spare tire well to be cutout, so would be quick & simple!
Zenithskull mine is not an Ls it is a 3.8l l67, and it’s not stock ,2.7”pulley ported blower and heads cam etc and made 400+ rwhp ran best of 10.88 @ 122 so blower is pretty much maxed
I'm curious if the M90 would be more able to keep up with a smaller engine like the Toyota 1UZ. It's both closer to the M90s original engine displacement (4.0 V8 vs the 3.8 V6) and closer to the original horsepower (stock 1UZ hp is around 240-250hp). Make sure you get one of the early "thick rod" (pre-95) blocks if you try it though!
CobraDBlade that would be a sweet setup
Whats going on with the plenum floor at 5:00 minutes? The front 4 runner are covered in oil. Blower puking oil? Maybe run your headers with 8 O2 sensors and see what air distribution looks like if the oil stain is any indication of where the flow is travelling.
typical of the blower-the discharge of a roots blower is always offset to front or back-oil residue might indicate something
@@richardholdener1727Just a guess here - With the motor pulling more air than the blower can supply (as the dyno runs showed) the plenum goes into a vacuum state and pulls oil past the seals of the M90. Now the 4 oily runners could be that the oil is heavier than air and doesn't want to do a 90 degree turn to the rear runners. Or is it so choked down that the air is just following the path of least resistance from the M90 outlet to the front half of the plenum. Maybe have a look at the plugs and see if anything was leaned out. Keep up the great work.
Richard, Thanks for your videos very interesting, I think two m90 Will be Better just look to solve belt slip
Richard, try a Eaton TVS 1900 from a 2010 Jag V8 😁
Since cfm is dependent on rpm, and this blower doesn’t flow enough cfm to support big hp numbers upstairs, can you optimize this setup for low rpm power? 7,000 rpm power is moot for trail jeeps , but sub-3500 power is king. Maybe the factory cam, a heater core intercooler, and a tiny pulley?
Beating the air by Spinnin’ it waaaay up just adds a ton of heat.
Watch out guys, Captain Obvious just arrived
Yeah this setup needs an intercooler
Love the channel man !
I just put a ford m90 on my Subaru, its pretty wicked on a 4 banger !
Curious, many years ago people ran Eaton blowers on Rover V8s, genetically related to the 3.8 in the big picture, but anyway, there were issues with fuel distribution and I wonder if those rear cylinders are getting less than those closer to the opening. Any indication of this due to the orientation of the fitment even if you used a larger blower?
I'd guess since it wasn't able to make boost there's little restriction to where the air is going, only from where it comes.
Rover V8s are essentially Buick 215 V8s. Theyre super small so it makes sense on that application.
I agree, twins would look like the old Magnacharger MC 220 and thats something that would be "doable" because the M-90's are cheap at the junkyards! You and i think alot alike!
I'd like to see it tested again with a gen v m90 and the smallest pulley available
yes and a v8 throttle body. that v6 throttle body is so small likely restrictive
ZZP recommended the northstar throttle body for higher performance 3800's. Still seems a little small to me when you're starting point is 375hp.
@@s1mph0ny the Gen 5 is already a 75mm inlet, so the Northstar isn't an upgrade on a Gen 5. Porting the hell out of the inlet and adapting an LS throttle body would be cool to see, though.
Woild love to see more 3800 stuff but 2 m90s would be nice to watch and swap the pullys and northstar throttle body
lets see an eaton m112 off a mustang. very similar unit but displaces more air.
I'd love to see you do the same test but with the M122 or M112 supercharers from either the Ford F150 lighting or the Ford Mustang GT500
There's a RUclips guy, junkyard dog I think is his channel, that put twin m90s on a Ford Pushrod 5.0
I saw his stuff-cool
I gotta check that out!
not running as far as i can tell, btw i subscribed.
@@richardholdener1727 since you mention it, that does seem like a lot of work instead of a big cheap china turbsky
Was that in the Thunderbird? I remember that and there others who ran M90s on 5.0L fords.
I'm surprised it didnt make any boost. I'm guessing the 4.8 consumed all the air before any positive pressure could be made/used?
Back when I was in high school I really wanted to put a m90 on a 4.3 s10. Never happened.
I wanted to put one on a 3.8 V6 in a 3rd Gen Firebird
@@bluenecross It's been done, the intake is the issue since the firewall is in the way
Would like to see m90 on a 2.8-3.1 v6. Those cavalier z24 60 degree heads have canted valves like a big block.
I think if you put a tiny pulley on that thing your charge temps would approach plasma levels. The rotors on those things are absolutely tiny. Would 2 work better? Yes, but with the parasitic loss of running 2, I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't get back to NA numbers. Either way I love these videos. Keep it up!
I’d take it off the ls and put it on a 2.2L ecotech 😋
That makes entirely too much sense
Is the 2.2 really gonna have enough torque to spin that thing effeciently?
It'll blow up
@@snoopy5736 stock 2007 l61 2.2l ecotec rods will hold 250hp before you should upgrade them the next thing is the piston which will hold ~300HP IIRC
I put one on 4.9 Ford inline 6 with a pulley ratio around 3 to 1, the best was 7 psi, had 10 at one time but only down low so I figured I was out of in efficiency range. I then added a turbo after that and now I make 25 psi blowing through the m90. The supercharger takes care of any turbolag and the turbo makes the large boost numbers
Do twin superchargers plus twin turbo for all the boost!! :D
You might be disappointed. Often when you combine turbos with a positive displacement supercharger the supercharger gets you quick spooling from the turbos but the supercharger becomes a restriction at high rpm/boost.
@@177SCmaro I knew that but never saw results of the combinatio.
I was interested in spool and how badly would supercharger fail in high rpm hahah
Matej Šimek I have that set up on a 4.3 V6 and it works well
@@gotmilke1 hmmm
What is the peak rpm of the engine?
Matej Šimek rev limiter set at 6,000 but mostly drive it below 5,000 I try to be conscious of that because I’m worried about breaking the crank (4.3V6) turbos make 8 lbs combined 18-20 lbs
I love these experiments, junkyard goodies and backyard engineering. Try compounding two m90s stacked up for a parasitic 570ish HP.
Confirm that your superchargers actually spinning at the correct speed before you make an assumption you didn't even know what the pulley size was for a stock 3.8 L V6 on the crank what is kind of important determine the RPM of the supercharger
I was ok with old school chevy 350s i knew how to get power but now i am trying to learn the LS stuff and it seems like i am starting all over again.I like your show it has the best info on the internet .I would like to see how you would put 2 blowers on that motor
Id like to see a stiegemeier stage iv ported m112 on there!
I have the 2002 Holden VX series 2 with a factory m90 powered 3.8 Buick block putting out roughly 171 kw from factory (229hp).
Which actual model was yours from??
Smaller pulley first... Then twins with a cross ram style intake
@Richard Holdener. Seasoned 3800 enthusiast here. I think you did not have the m90's boost bypass valve set correctly. When the engine was not running in the video I noticed the lever is up, plus you have a red hose going to the dyno, Remove that. If plugged the valve holds the last position. The lever should set flat against the stud when off, When idling it will lift off the stud. I think you were bleeding boost during your run. Also the stock diameter of the L67 Series 2 crank pulley is roughly 7 1/8" diameter.
put the M90 on a D16 Honda Civic motor
Lone Wolf Customs
Heck yes !! 300whp is enough to kill a D16 over time. But super cool while it last. Maybe on E85 it can survive (doubt though, poor rods)
That would be cool! Id like to see the SC14 supercharger on a H22 honda engine, those little blowers push alot of air for there size!!
@@bryanleverett2830 everything Richard does in these videos will kill all of these engines over time. That's what tuning does, it exponentially shortens life.
180TQ on stock D-Series rods or you're asking for trouble. The stock pistons will outlast the rods.
Basicly the same concept, but Jackson Racing made a roots blower intake manifold unit back in the day. You can still find them for sale every once in a while, but they're discontinued.
@@tommylyeah I'm thinking of a low-buck way of supercharging a Civic will it blow up over time probably but most engines will but if the unit would make decent power then you upgrade some rods and head gaskets and potentially a fun toy
Question for Richard: I just bought an M90 with the intent of sticking into the engine bay of a Lexus SC300. I think I can squeeze it in between the block and tire well, with a plenum curving up to a stock lower intake manifold on the 2 JZ. The plenum box would only be about 1" wide, meaning the outlet air from the blower would be forced to turn a sharp 90* turn just below the vanes. My goal would only be maybe 350 horsepower. Do you think a narrow plenum would work ?
1 inch wide?
@@richardholdener1727 the M90 would be setting on it's side under the intake stubs. The throttle body would be under the master cylinder. The outlet of the blower would face the wheel well. A curved plenum would arch over to the lower intake manifold. The plenum would only be about 1" wide due to space limitations.
Why couldn’t you run a smaller pulley spend the supercharger faster
Because out of the efficient range. These blowers are 54% at best
I want to put one of these on my 350z engine. I saw a guy do it the other day and I think it'd be awesome for that low power engine. I saw a guy make 350 whp with one (stock they are about 250whp)
why would you do a m90 when there's a ton of m122s for 500 or less that are actually made for a v8
@Pizza baller there's companys that make them for m122s, tvs1900s, tvs2300s
id go tvs 1900. you can get gen 4 rec port to cathedral port adapters for like 200-250. m122 plates are 1300-1400 and the tvs1900 is better then a m122
Yes keep doing m90 testing. I have seen truck guys do a dual setup
Mike Sitar ran 2 Tbird Supercoupe blowers on a 351W back in the day:
toohighpsi.com/twin-supercharged-t-bird.html
If you still have that 3800 I'd love to see how much power one can make with some big turbos before it breaks. It's a pretty underrated motor outside of the midwest.
Hey the m90 would keep a 1000hp shot of nitrous from backing out the intake.😂
Big brain😂
There was a truck for sale in WI just recently summer of ‘24 with a custom intake built for 2 m90’s that ran, it was god awful ugly but I respect the dude for his time. Intake mani was all steel..basically came up just above the heads, spread over them with a flat plate and 2 m90’s lol..
Then a barn fell on the truck. Guess he blew it first run lol. Said it made some respectable boost. I was roadkill garage worthy for sure
Gtp my first hotrod Lmfaooooo
why are you using the v6 throttle body? thats very restrictive. what if you put a smaller pulley on the supercharger and use a proper v8 throttle body. most people place the throttle body after the supercharger. i like the setup, i think it would be very cool with a m112 or m122 and a proper v8 sized throttle body
the throttle body after the supercharger? In the intake manifold under the blower or remote mount the blower?
@@richardholdener1727 i realize that wouldn't work in your application, but in side mount m90 applications, thats how they do it, similar to a centrifugal supercharger. i realize you cant do that but perhaps a smaller pulley and a bigger V8 throttlebody might help? thanks for the reply
Should've at least used a Gen V
Why is that?
@@reminoel483 more efficient