The shotgun can be used in higher difficulties. Taking tac reload makes up for its drawback. Also it feels more like a rifle because video games get shotguns wrong imo this feels like a real shot gun. Its bullets dont just disappear after traveling 5 feet.
Glad to see another shotgun appreciator. I was surprised to see it ranked so low when it's one of the few shotguns in any game that uses slugs correctly as you described.
I use the shotgun in the higher difficulties and I love it. The only real issue I have with it is if there are specials that I need to take out far away and crusher which is annoying but other than that worked great for me.
I want to experiment more with the shotgun, but I feel like it's dangerous for quickplay. Even deploying with one person I know allows for a lot of complimentary planning. Having said that, I'm sticking around Malice for the same reason (quickplay).
The Mk12 is unrivaled when it comes to what really matters as vet, killing specials and rooms full of shooters. No other gun can wipe squads of regular shooters quite as quickly or efficiently as the 12. It's powerful with just the right RoF. Plus is a beautiful lasgun. *mwuah*
When it comes to raw killing potential the bolter is better especialy against the armored specialists/ogryns But the small Magazin and small ammo pool make up for that The Mk12 is only unrivaled against huge rifle mobs
ok a few things on the plasma gun, 1. With a 10% reload perk (and the 20% and 30% feats) you can get the reload to about 6 seconds, which I think is faster than a zealot reloads a boltgun. Not fast but much better. 2. With 80% on thermal resistance you get 4 charged shots before 100%, and 4 uncharged before the 37% heat venting damage breakpoint. 3. Charged shots are extremely heat inefficient, don't use them if possible. 4. Shoots through walls. I've kill tons of specials after/before they use map spawn door. For walls you do need to charge it however. 5. Shoots through cover, suppressed shooters? kill 10 or 12 and reload, or kill 4 vent then kill 4 more., XII better at killing shooters? Absolutely, But I see people running the Plasma and only shooting hard targets when it is far more versatile than that. you really need to hit that 4 shot thermal resistance break point tho. 6. Shoots through the team. Fantastic for mixed hordes. If the front line is tagging shit, you just melt the outlines right through the Ogryn's back.
Plasma is S/A tier. Your job is to change your feats up to get that reload properly and just obliterate bosses/HVTs like Crushers, Reapers, Maulers, etc. A high damage/charged-up Plasma gun can one-shot a Crusher using the special ability and if you manage your heat properly you can easily kill 2 Crushers back to back. Your job is to melt bosses and let your teammates handle the rest.
That's totally fine if that's your role in your group, but I think anti armour vets are more niche and this tierlist is a more generalization of the most versitile weapons.
The plasma gun can shoot through walls and can one-shot elites and specials on heresy and damnation with an incomplete charge when using volley fire. You don't even need to headshot the enemies. With the higher difficulties, you're hard-pressed to find a more reliable special killer, which in most cases is your primary role as a veteran.
I do dispute your claims though. Every veteran with a bolter Iv'e seen so far on damnation is killing it. It can just deal with every situation better than what the MK XII lasgun can. I would atleast pair it on S tier with it. Bolter and power sword is very much the meta right now imo.
While I would've rated the bolter slightly higher, it really can't handle every situation better than the MkXII. The recoil and fewer ammo per magazine mean you can't really clear a room full of shooters as quickly and precisely as you would with the MkXII. It's still an amazing weapon and it melts everything you point it at, but the MkXII right now is the superior weapon.
The bolter, by designer intention, is not as versatile, so if your team can deal with that lack of versatility, the bolter will kill it, so to speak, and kill many things in the process. I'm trying to get more used to using it. If all else fails, I'm pretty good with the XII.
Your forgetting the issue where you don't have the right teammates especially in higher difficulties you'll definitely end up leaning heavy on your melee weapon and will have to work harder to get to a safer position to use it probably focusing on taking down heavy or armored enemies even bosses but in higher difficulties you'll has crap tons of those bosses and heavies and they'll all be armored as well as whole platoons of armored snipers dogs armored berserkers them mf linebacker ones that tackle you and then throw you like a ragdoll off the ledge n shit you'll need better teammates for the sake of better positioning to make it your melee won't save you
I think the Power Sword is being slightly underestimated here. There is some clunkiness in usability, but what it brings to the table is 1-2 shot horde clear and strong special/Elite damage. It's incredibly powerful especially with the Power Cycler blessing that can make it go from like a 3 power swing to like an 7-8 power swing. This means if done optimally, you can clear out a huge chunk of the horde and then follow it up with a swing on an Elite/Special. I've beaten several Damnation runs with it Otherwise good tier list!
I disagree if you were to ask me to take power sword over a tac axe I would take the tac axe everytime. Mobility is very important and usually I see vets go down by hordes because they commit too much to their power sword and get swarmed
I believe that the Catachan Mk VII Swords don't penetrate armour. They just cleave. So, using a Lasgun, which also doesn't penetrate Carapace while carrying a Sword isn't advisable. The Combat Axe and the Power Sword are better suited to be paired with the Lasgun. Lastly, if you're doing Assasinations, the Lasgun doesn't do much against the Boss' power shield. Carry 'Bullet' weapons rather than 'Laser' weapons for him instead. GGs.
Why I like to pair my melee with AP or vice versa. Why I usually use the plasma gun for AP needs and then a solid melee for CC. Think tabletop rules. Then weapon choice becomes easier. Lasguns are terrible for AP, autoguns are better versatility due to their AP. More damage doesnt mean much if that damage gets sorbed by armor
It would have been nice if we could have wielded the pistols with one handed melee. Use special attack to hip fire while slashing away. They missed a trick with that and it would have been an interesting way to play that gave a point to carrying the smaller weapons. I rate the bolter muh lower and the helbore a little higher (Iwould put it on par with infantry lasguns if it equipped as fast) with the green one being my favourite, the brown second and blue distant third. I also like the green headhunter in a run and gun play style: aim for the chest and the second shot hits the head. I only really play heresy or drop down a level if there are no missions I want to do at that level. I understand the brown infantry lasgun is the best for doing the veteran's main job well and good enough for everything else, but it just feels boring. Still solid S though. Oddly enough I rate the powersword at least an A, but avoid using it for the same reason.
I think overall the amount of detail you gave was good. Could have talked a little more about the S and A picks, what blessings to aim for and all that jazz, since those are the weapons that most people will want to aim for. All the others were completely fine, short and to the point, with the obvious exceptions being more controversial placements. Staying under 15min run time is probably a good length.
something i gathered in passing but i think a lot of people missed was how the ranks were actually compared to one another. Its a wee bit of context that could have made the video easier to process , and accept what the ratings were. for example, something like ((also jesus sorry for how long this is lmao)) S rank: you can pick this weapon at any time, it is always excellent, and will always serve you well. A rank: with the Propper blessing, this weapon is excellent and can cameo as S tier. . Without the Propper blessing, it is a solid weapon that will struggle in niche situations B rank: Consistently okay, or extremely strong in specific scenarios, but weak in very common scenarios (like running out of ammo). Requires specific perks or blessings to be more consistently powerful. C rank; solid in specific scenarios, but not so strong that it can do better then any other weapon in that scenario. REQUIRES specific perks to function at all, let alone be actually good. D rank: has one purpose, and is outclassed by other guns in the majority of scenarios but CAN do some niche things well. with perks, can become more consistent E rank. is marginally better then not having a weapon at all. With the right perk and blessings, its okay, but its always outclassed by other guns even at the things its supposed to be good at. F rank: is worse then not having a weapon at all, using it means not taking a much better weapon that is more consistently helpful
Power Sword goes in A or S simply by virtue of being an anti-armor capable melee and it reliably staggers Crushers in 2 powered lights. If you're ever having mob issues with the power sword, you have a big skill issue, whether in use or positioning, and if you're having a dodge count problem, get better at dodging with timing instead of whenever.
I know it’s kind of suggestive but if you use the lvl 30 perk that insta reloads your gun the bolt is fucking amazing. Been clearing lvl 5 with it. Even in situations with lots of gunners. That said taking out gunners is always better to have a las gun for sure
@@shiugen676 GREED!!! joke a side i only use the bolt gun for elites and gunners so its not that hard to manage. im mostly running around with my power sword. keep in mind that the Vet gets the most shields back from melee kills in the game so its not hard to deal with the hordes.
Wholeheartedly agree with the bolter, it's great to shoot and has its uses. However, almost every random veteran i get on Heresy and Damnation is going to bring a Bolter+Power Sword and will melt to a room full of scab gunners. It feels like a weapon that is great to have if there's only one on the team.
It would cool to have a video where you list real S tier end game weapons, meaning specifically weapons with the right perks, that way if we see something in the shop we can quickly identify if it's worth grabbing or not. Just don't include weapons that aren't end game viable no matter what perks they have, etc. So video isn't excessively long.
I think it's worth mentioning that while I can think of situations wear the bolter, plasma gun, Lucius pattern lasgin's, and stub revolver are excellent ... I do so while thinking of specific perks and specific arrangements of perks tailored for each of them Without those perks specifically arranged These guns can be a miserable experience And I think this tearlist actually does a good job of reflecting how specialized your build needs to be in order to make the different weapons work
Main issue that's many weapons currently suffering from terrible design. Lucius got ugly iron sight while being "precise" weapon. While Imperium won't fukup thier mass produces weapons devs are. Considering that's "F" group is largest of all mean that FS doing something terrible wrong. Lasgun should have core+modules system with swapping periphery and different buffs/debuffs for each module. That's not even beta it's EA game pretending to be release.
As a higher tier veteran main, a couple of thoughts. 1. Bolter should be higher up, if you have a boltgun with good roles, one with rending + pinning fire + unyielding + reload speed, yes this is a lot, but basically don't use the bolt gun without rending + unyielding + reload speed. You can mitigate the weapons low reload speed with + reload speed feats or sustained fire. You can also treat this as an ogrin killer with the level 30 feat to kill ogrins and have another member (like another sharpshooter with counterfire) to deal with the ranged. 2. Plasma should be higher tier, it has a higher skill cap but if you understand how to use it, it is at least A tier, similarly to the boltgun, you can mitigate its weaknesses with reload speed perks/feats. It also has the benefit of killing ranged unites behind cover and the ability to get it out fast and kill a few things when it is spicy. 3. Mark XII lasgun S tier... yeap, that + counterfire destroys ranged/elites, you just need someone to take out ogrins/crushers. I don't know what you are smoking with the power sword in B tier, you clearly haven't found a really high rolled one. For reference I have a near max damage/max cleave + 25% damage to maniacs and flak armored with rampage and brutal momentum... the thing insta clears everything with brutal momentum. If instead of rampage I had energy cycler it would be god tier rolled. This auto clears horde even on basically damnation levels, yes I have to charge it up a lot, but it doesn't matter because one push/charge will clear everything in front of me.
the agripina braced autogun should be at least a tier higher than the other braced autoguns, using volleyfire and firing in bursts is surprisingly accurate even at a distance and combined with the feat that lets you see all scab shooters lets you keep that volley fire going, my favorite gun tbh
The autoguns are disgusting if used correctly. You can swarm clear with it thanks to the collateral. And they can do solid DPS. Very flexible. Plasma gun has so many dirty tricks you can do with it. People that write it off have no idea what they are missing. Only weapon I have seen that can straight up wall bang or floorbang. I can save someone from a hound by shootijg through a floor or wall with it. Or just cover shoot specials through a wall. And the charged shot is the single most powerful shot in the game. Mastering the plasma gun is worth it. I learned so many dirty tricks you can do with it that none of the other weapons can do.
@@convergence1point i really want to like the plasma gun but its just not really my playstyle, i appreciate it in capable hands tho, im just a braced autogun and boltor kinda guy
The Agrippinaa braced should be S-tier if you ask me. It may not be good for taking out snipers and enemies on long distance, but you can wipe out pretty much everything else with ease.
i really don't see how the bolter and power sword are anything less than A. yes - in a perfect game you don't want to be clearing hordes, but that's just not realistic especially if you cannot control your team comp, or if you have bad players, both of which happen regularly. it can also shred armor, which helps save bolter ammo against said armor. the bolter is almost as good as the MK12 Lasgun. all of the negatives you mentioned are true, but good aim and positioning negate most of that. plus you often hit multiple enemies from the penetration which conserves ammo. i also cannot overstate how insanely useful it against armor and large mobs. often times teams have a hard time dealing with them - a bolter does not...ever.
Funny, I use the recon guns on malice and above, hah. edit: I keep hearing people saying the Mk XII lasgun is great, but it's so slow, it's too easy to get overwhelmed with the numbers you deal with in hersey+
I never see people mention that the heavy recon lasgun is the only lasgun that can penetrate pox walker hordes. I use it on my psyker with great effect.
Take note,for infantry autogun, mk 1 is the "heavy variant" and mk 8 is the middle. The light is correct. Do NOT see the gun colour. Its the only one that is "wrong" and dont fit the standard of blue > green > tan for light medium heavy variant.
I thinking putting range and melee in the same tier list is bad. There are lot of synergies between weapons. So you need to understand how they play with each other. I saw everyone shit on flamethrower and say it’s not viable in higher difficulties. I run flamethrowers and knife for my group on Zeolot. It works fine.
Flamethrower is GOD tier on Damnation anyone saying it's shit are just noobs.. It can shit on a horde + elites + special at the same time if you know to setup the position correctly.. Even in those unexpected situations it is a life saver because it staggers even those damn Ragers easily.. Honestly it is a must have if you want a higher chance of clearing damnation with random groups
A tier list can only do so much, but I think you're on to something for other types of videos. I'll keep it in mind for my own use. It's still nice to get someone's view of all these Vet weapons in one place though.
The E tier las recon gun is about A tier imo. Like you said with crit and burn effects it has some nice damage. But with good damage bonuses, and base stats, coupled with the vets feat to auto reload with his power skill, the gun effectively has a 200+ round mag. Can literally single handedly clear a horde, or burn through several armored elites per mag. (vets can also get +25% crit chance when aiming...) The gun is for sure C or D tier on other classes tho
The Agrippina braced autogun should be higher imo like B or A more specifically, if you get good rolls for it plus get the right feats, you turn your veteran from a midline/backline class into a powerful Frontline gunner that can clear rooms within a matter of seconds if done correctly. I've had no issues running the Agrippina in heresy or damnation runs, paired with a power sword and you're pretty much good to go in terms of having something to take care of carapace and cheesing through the rest of the specials in this game. That gun is nutty and needs more light shed onto it.
Would love to see an updated version of this given some of the changes we've had, namely to the headhunter autoguns, shredder pistol, availability of blessings, and just overall developed game understanding of the community.
Nice summary, and I agree to most of it. However, I would put the Bolter a Tier up. Yes, it has a terrible long reload and ready time, and the tac. reload should definitely be chosen for it. On the other side, depending on your team, especially when running higher Tiers with randoms, it is a great relief weapon: unloading a mag in a group clears out a lot, taking down Muties and Bulwarks works great with it. So if you are conserving ammo and play more like a burst damage specialist, a Bolter is a great choice imho. I usually run a shovel with a Mk XII or Bobo, the friendly Bolter, depending on my team.
yea bolter is really good since it can kill anyone with a single clip. it also easily scare low tier enemies. Plus if you actually aim pretty well and dont full auto everything the ammo is really doable
Different tactical axes have better movesets for cleave vs single target, don't they? I think the MK2 has a heavy chain that cleaves with both hits but the others have one or both heavy attacks as strikedown At least that's how it works for Zealot versions - always looking for the Brutal Momentum MK2
IIRC All the tac axes are triple "assassin" light attacks which strike only one enemy and have double strike down heavy combos. Despite how the animations might differ I think the end result is the same. Though with how information is sometime presented in Darktide I'm not going to be surprised if that's wrong haha.
@@Dalkoragaming they might list that the attacks are the same but in actuality the different axes have most importantly different swings/amounts of cleave on their heavies. mk II has two cleaving heavy attacks, the mk IV has cleaving lights but single target heavies, and the mk VII has one cleaving heavy and one single target heavy. Running the mk II with brutal momentum is very fun, the others don't shine as much in my opinion
@@Dalkoragaming all have different swinging animations. Mk8 and mk 2 tact have a very very very strong push attack heavy combo that with brutal momentum, can mince any horde, even MIXED horde. Its better than mk5 combat only in dodge distance and atk speed (aka safety). As for lights, mk5 tact has a diagonal light. Which works with brutal momentum as well. But outshined by mk 2 and 8 heavy which is diagonal (I.e. works godly with brutal momentum)
The agrippina infintry is actually pretty good with a high dmg and stopping power roll if you roll 25+ flak armor you can get the to one shot the regular shooters in damnation with a headshot and 2 shot the heavy gunners and you can even 1 shot them with a good roll on the blessings
Well putting hellbore in lowest tiers is interesting. They can out perform MK12. Even a base mk2 hellbore will be fast enough to clear a room. Let alone one shot body shot shooters deal with crushers and have a good ammo economy. I agree that mk3 can be slower, but mk1 with onslaught feels like mk2 and even a mk2 with onslaught feels like mk12 but better. I would say do more testing on those weapons. It took me a while to get used to it but its worth it specially on damnation. Two tapping reapers isnt something to ignore in my honest opinion.
MK3 hellbore with a crit build is working pretty well for me, 1/2 shots gunners in general and chunks ogryns as well. But a lot of this is dependent on the particular stats and perks you have, they can really chance how a weapon works out.
Tactical Axes are amazing. The heavy is a very good sweep especially with brutal momentum and the light is a decent assassin chain. I got a god roll power sword (both blessings and both perks) but even that feels clunky vs my tac axe. Not saying its better than a power sword (which is kinda OP) but the feeling is fun and its viable.
I agree for the most part. My only qualms are: The Shotgun: yes it doesnt feel like a shotgun at close range, but it does as much damage as the Kantrael heavy when you headshot foes and has a nice AoE spread special. I feel it should be C-B The Catatchan Swords while good for clearing hordes have no Carapace potential whatsoever. I feel its a C-B - As a Sidenote I feel as if you were a bit harsh on the Ironsights. Yes some of them are really bad but I myself dont find them that difficult to use. As for my personal success: - Also Ive had much personal success with the Lucius and Accatran VIIa Lasguns on Heresy Difficulty. I have not done Damnation with them yet. For my Lucius I just have amazing Blessings on it that allow me to fire as fast as the Kantrael lasgun (at half charge). It does as much damage and is Carapace piercing. Maybe thats just my blessings though. - As for the Accatran VIIa lasgun specifically, it does have twice as much damage per shot as the other variants and really doesnt lack fire rate. Yes its horrible against anything with armor. However I find it amazing when clearing hordes and lots of shooters. Since it has so little recoil, I can reliably land headshots against shooters even when suppressed. They just die so fast when hit by 2-3 of my shots in the span of half a second... - I would agree with you that most of the time these 2 patterns of guns are not good whatsoever. However Ive had a lot of personal success with them on Heresy difficulty...
I love the accatran 7a for clearing hordes and shooters and it’s still not bad against unarmored elites. I run it with the combat knife to use against crushers and bulwarks
@@epicdoggo4925 I run the combat knife or an axe of some sort with my accatran to balance the AP damage. Honestly the braced autoguns are better for clearing hordes but aren't as good as shooting gunners. But as a veteran... Err.. veteran... Lol... It's fun to mix it up and not always run Kantrael...
@@KnudAutlermann I think of it as a sort of Jack of all trades. It isn’t the best at anything but it can still be decent at whatever you need it to. It’s probably the most versatile weapon IMO
I agree completely with this list. Interestingly though, I put the shotgun up high, if it's a zealot. Combos well with a knife as it gives good pushback and can easily kill snipers across the map. But if I saw a Vet using it I would roll my eyes
I switched to revolver instead of shotgun, the revolver's ability to punch through an unlimited number of enemies means you can kill those long range enemies even if they are behind a wall of enemies. Great for when you know there's a bomber, burster, gunner, etc behind the chaff enemies who we can see the highlighted silhouette of. =P
I do good with Helbore MK III on Heresy. It does require a lot of skill and positioning. I do think it should've had a sniper scope though to really make it unique as a sniper designated weapon. Haven't yet tried it on Damnation yet though.
We'll probably get the Long Las in a DLC or something eventually so they might be holding off on giving anything a proper scope to make it more unique.
I agree with everything except for power sword, revolver, and combat shotgun. Vtide players are gonna have different skills to apply to this game that compensate for certain weapon mechanics. A quick dodge is all it takes to stay safe while charging power sword so I feel it's easily A tier. When I play revolver I only focus priority and a few other range targets so ammo is just enough(does need reload perk and modifier value)so I think revolver is easily B if you get a decent one. The combat shotgun has crazy flexible "firing uptime" like the revolver and it also has incredible stagger and range. I think low B tier. It is my most used weapon on sharpshooter and I mostly play heresy. Please give the combat shotgun another chance. I think you are missing out.
How on God's green Earth is the Boltor F tier? Dude, no. Get an Orange one with amazing stat rolls, perk, and bonuses, and have a good build, you're good. Activate your ability with said Boltor, and unload on a monstrosity and you'll see what I mean. Can the Lasgun hit without as much recoil? Yes. Does it do full auto and clear a crowd or melt anything infront of you? No.
Recon lasguns are bad? Strong disagree, they are basically las LMGs and are really good at clearing out trash and shooters. The non-existent recoil also makes them very accurate. They're solid B tier, with the mk6 being closer to A tier because of the fire rate. Also, powersword in B? Really? That thing is easily an S tier weapon, it can shred hordes, elites, bosses, specials etc. It's extremely versatile.
considering the Vets intended role as the teams specialist/heavy killer, theBolter seems pretty damn good for that, and i have seen ppl used it in Damnation with great success tbh. even without the capabilites to deal with spread out hordes, as soon as they are funneled, the bolter makes quick work with its multiple enemy penetrating bullets ^^ but i might be a bit biased since its one of my fav weapons in 40k * ^^ * still think it should have been in A tier tho, but in the end its not my list ofc ^^
The Accatran MK 7a lasgun is quite good at clearing hordes and basic shooters while still not being terrible against elites. Yes it’s useless against crushers but other than that it is quite versatile and certainly not deserving of f teir
i agree with your placent of the boltgun, i main vet currently and i’ve caught a bit of flak for not using it in higher diffs but honestly it just feels like a noob trap. By the time most people first unlock it they are most likelt still playing T2 or T3, they bring it along because hey, it’s a boltgun. They fire it into a cluster of elites or against a crusher and it does amazingly well, as it should. But it simply doesnt have the ammo efficiency to do that in higher difficulties where elites are alot meatier and more abundant. You’re also foregoing your ability to kill shooters at range effectively in favour of doing something else that other classes can do just as well.
The reason I kept going back to the Kantrael is purely because I am in the position of doing quickplay, and if people are relying on me taking on the world (of ranged opponents), the Bolter won't get that done. It will get other things done, but not that. Two Veterans paired up with complimentary weapons are probably a scary, scary force though.
the plasma gun can shoot threw medium and thin walls , you can one shot marked elite units while keeping cover , you may need a bit of protection from your team but i think it can be usefull on some maps.
@@Koranthus How does it sucks the higher you go? That thing melts through hordes and shits on flak and carapace armor no other weapon comes close to being as good as power sword on Damnation.. I even wish my Zealot could use one lol
put in 20+ hours with the vet before i even got to use the bolter, and that’s only because i bought it and upgraded it; absolutely love it. it’s definitely not as versatile as some of the other weapons but it’s just so much fun to use, and the gore is so satisfying. i was using the grupina for the longest time, which is one of my faves still, but i think the bolter will be a mainstay for a good while.
I stopped using Power sword because of the horrible mobility, and I use the dagger until I can try brutal momentum on that axe. Would love a tier list of blessings for the best sharpshooter weapons. Keep them coming!
@@teddyvabson I have zero problems using the power sword, activate, slash, slash, dodge, activate repeat. It doesn't matter if mobility is low, even a small sidestep is still enough dodge I-frames. I've even done the majority of damage to a Beast and a Plagueyn with it on Heresy (Though mine does have +25% unyielding) and on Damnation still carries me through everything bar Ogryns. The power sword is still the best melee for the Vet, hands down.
@@cyanide7270 don’t get me wrong I love the damage on power sword, it’s probably the most powerful weapon for veteran. My problem is that I struggle to get away from the enemies with it, I know it can be done but I was a lot more successful after I switched to combat blade. Most likely it’s a skill issue on my part.
@@teddyvabson Nah im not going to say its a skill issue (i hate that whole mentality, along with "git gud") if it dont work for you, it dont work for you, just saying im not finding the same issues with it. Also does depend a bit on the stats and blessings+perks you get on the weapon. I know people prefer the Eviscerator or Thunder hammer on the Zealot, or especially the combat blade, personally i prefer the Antax combat axe with Shred does wonders for me. We each have our own preferences.
Shotgun should be in C imo. It can do great damage and with the auto reload park you don’t have to worry about the reload too much. It just needs either more ammo or more ap to get to higher tiers.
sooo, would you rather have 80 mobility 58 defenses or 78 defenses 53 mobility on the sapper shovel, assuming the rest of the stats and perks are the exact same?
Honestly, this is kinda boring, you pretty much want a boring but reliable weapon, which is understandable, but makes it kinda bland, most of the fun weapons are low tier, but then again they it might mean they should be buffed
Yeh I knew that going in, that's why I felt the need to mention it wasn't going to be a comment on how fun the weapons are xD Though if you flip the ranks around you pretty much get the "fun" tier list.
Honestly while the MG XII lasgun is amazing in terms of ammo efficiency and long range engagements it is absolutely terrible at close range. Turning a corner into 6 ragers is quite common in damnation and i would rather have a bolter or braced auto to delete everything in front of me in a few seconds. The bolter is a weapon that heavily relies on blessings to be effective. Its also not a weapon you want to have more than once on your squad, but having one is amazing for taking out crushers in a second. Braced autos are generally really underrated. They outshine all other weapons in terms of dps on close to midrange engagements. They have amazing surpression against all gunner type enemies. And if you are skilled you can keep your ult (and with that Unwavering Focus) up indefinitly. Do not use the graia braced though, its by far the worst version of the weapon.
braced autogun are not underrated, they are bad guns for a sharpshooter, who should not be worried about close-mid range. Anyone can shoot that far, your job as the SHARPSHOOTER is to accurately shoot at mid-long range targeting enemy shooters primarily. The mark 12 is bad at close range, but you shouldn't be concerned with short range, that is what your teammates and your melee weapon are for.
The bolters clunkyness can be played around with slide canceling and reload slides. if you use it with rending, role unyeilding on it, it's one of the only weapons in the game that can nuke mixed hordes and big boys with ease. it has a unique playstyle and isn't for everyone, and requires a lot from the user as it's a very high skill demanding weapon, but I strongly feel B is to low for how well it does it's specific job. it's obviously not a gun you want to be shooting none stop through the match. it's kind of in a one of a kind spot right now.
I understand the reload slides, but can you confirm what you mean by slide canceling? If you start the weapon swap and then slide, it cancels the drawing animation only, but still locks you from firing until the ghost animation is completed - this negates the benefit of it. I could be doing it incorrectly though
@@in0m4d24 sliding at the start of the cocking animation feels faster to me. I don't have the appropriate software to time it though. it could just be in my head.
I agree with the bolter and plasma gun not being too high. My friends are all about them for the damage, but I find them way too clunky. The Mk. 8 rifle has been my work horse. It has poor accuracy and you need to use controled bursts if the target is far away. With practice, I can snipe targets far away, as the first two shots are pretty accurate. It's high damage and ammo efficiency allow me to mow down small and medium enemies up to medium range. I'm not giving up my power sword for anything. It has good damage and excellent crowd control. You don't absolutely need to charge it up when fighting back a horde, just for bigger targets.
Despite your negative assessment, I still love the recon lasgun. I have tons of fun using it to just mow down hordes of enemies or to focus down elite targets.
I agree with about half of these but I get the impression you haven't given these more than a mission using any of them if that. Shotgun, rev, autoguns, all should be higher imo. Not going into tac axe and other melee weapon movesets was also pretty disappointing. A few other disagreements: Bolter feels great but should be C at best. Power sword is used by meta slaves sure but it's def still an S right now.
The shotgun shouldn't be in F, it has some of the most utility of all the ranged weapons, duck spread clears hordes, buckshot is great from hipfire, and the ads slugshot lets you continue to respond to long range threats. The only downside is the long reload, but that can be heavily mitigated by the level 10 and 25 feats and finally rolling a reload perk on the shotgun in question. Blessings for stagger damage can also make this pretty monstrous. Also, keep in mind the reload animation resets after each shell being loaded, so you're always triggering the level 10 feat. Maybe you can say it's A tier, but it's an S for me.
I'd honestly put the braced agripinaa in B, I happen to really like this gun and I find it almost rivals the lasguns in terms of just killing mobs of shooters, I find it's extra penetration and higher DPS make up for the downsides, and I think it's easily the most efficient autogun available.
Your arguement concerning ammo effeciency of the Lucius Mk II is wrong, I think. Uncharged 2 units - charged 4. And it charges quite fast, while having a decent RoF if fired uncharged. I think it's the way better gun then the Mk III on any difficulty.
I took your recommendation on the S tier combat axe, found one with massive damage and upgraded it to master crafted, just to get the limb splitter blessing...
Boltor has saved my butt more than any other weapon in this game. I understand people have their likes and dislikes but coming from someone that hasn't put down the weapon since day 1 once that recoil is mastered assuming you have a high stability roll its really hard to go back to any range weapon lol.
Bolt Gun for me is an A tier weapon i have highest survival rate using it with randoms in LV5, with the right stats and its rapid fire feature (stopping, atleast high reloading 50 and up) it could be use for crowd control situation, specialist and support with good curios. the greatest drawback of the boltgun is its reloading time.
i think a lot of people mislabel simple iron sights as bad. Theres nothing wrong with a simple sight like the revolver; a nice little simple shape and the bullets go right where youre pointing every time.
I mostly disagree with your opinion on the Accatran Mk6d. I've used this weapon with great success in Heresy and Damnation difficulties. It's a powerful tool to reduce hordes at any range and has enough dps to remain relevant against elites and ogryns. I do agree, however, that the infernus blessing is almost a must on the higher difficulty settings.
After the buffs the Helbore's are legit amazing weapons. Greatly disagree about Bolter's ammo, Boltguns ammo efficiency is really good overall due to the sheer power of each shot/each shot can kill multiple enemies.
You are incredibly wrong about the Mk VIII braced autogun. With Unwavering Focus you just rush in there and kill everything before the zealot even has a chance to go melee. Also the suppression and stagger on it are very high giving you control over hordes of shooters with suppression, and control over elites like maulers and ragers by just sending them directly to the ground with the stagger preventing them to even attack. Easily an A tier weapon, and yes you can make long shots with it if you're not trigger happy.
Huh, I would say I agree with melee weapons - with the exception of chainaxe, it requires a lot of block and push attacks, but it has one of the best stamina efficiency for pushes and blocks (with high defence and mobility rolls), I've felt bad about using it in 4s and 5s at first, but once I've learned... In a way, its similar to sword&shield in Vermintide. It also has some tricks to its light and heavy attacks that require learning - lights stick to targets like a shorter specials, heavies hit multiple enemies without sticking, also light requires a preemptive/simultaneous dodge to not make you stuck. Ranged however? It seems to me like you haven't tested some of them enough, the correct rolls for breakpoints are what makes or breaks a lot of em and blessings are also very important for a couple of em. I will... Write a long msg about a lot of guns, to spread out some knowledge, as I feel veterans are currently stuck with a very few guns that are relatively easy to play, don't require testing/rolls/blessings to perform and can deliver - which isn't exactly bad, but there is a lot of diversity in the game and a lot of guns that can perform very well in 4s and 5s, but just haven't been explored enough IMO (either the breaktpoints/blessings haven't been tested or the shooting techniques and usage haven't been discovered enough). 1. Vraks headhunter - easily just below XII in terms of performance, with right rolls (and + flak dmg) it gets 2-1(on crit) tap on gunners without even volley fire active. It's a crit machine and has to be build around it imo - so you need one with crucian roulette. It also plays a lot better with deadshot than infantry lasguns, very tight hipfire allows for stamina conservation and ADSing when its needed for far/higher priority targets. Generally speaking it deals better with flak armour than infantry lasguns and its higher ROF comes in handy to clear against bunched up targets, in a clutch it can even clear some room for you vs horde/bruisers. A lot worse vs maniacs though and slightly worse vs unyielding. Also crits are what makes or breaks its ammo efficiency, but with roulette and deadshot it can hit average 40-50% crit rate. Haven't tested enough the other headhunters, although currently I think the 2 round burst is screwed (not sure if it can hit correct breakpoints vs flak), but the 3 round one might have potential. 2. Recons, I would say the one you listed higher is actually the worst - it's not apparent at first, but even though it has same dmg as the green one, its vs flak modifier is a lot worse. The green one I haven't tried enough, the brown can easily hold its own on 4/5 - with high enough rolls and + flak dmg it kills most gunners with short 3 rounds bursts. Thats the thing though, it shouldn't be used to just spray&pray - short, controlled bursts take out a lot of targets very effectively (headshots help ofcourse), sustained fire for ogryns, specialists, ragers. It struggles against maniac targets unfortunately, but it definitely deserves at least a d rating. 3. Infantry autoguns - agripinaa (the high dmg one) can play very well at 4/5, again, short controlled bursts and sustained fire in a pinch. I would say easily on par with braced autoguns, added points for more versatility. The other 2... Uh, yeah columnus and graia seem to be bad. I would put them somewhere at the bottom. 4. All luciuses pierce through carapace and I would put them all at the top, maybe Mk 1&2 lower. The thing is, those are high skill ceiling, hard to use, high performance. Once you learn em, they easily outperform XII with their high per shot charge dmg and ability to charge shots in hipfire and ADS just for a deadshot bonus (works really well with mk3, decently with mk1, not worth the effort with mk2 most of the time). They can take out gunners just as effectively as a XII, can deal with carapace very well, take out reapers with 1 crit to the head. The only targets vs which the XII really outshines em is mutants. Overall luciuses require a lot of practice and even a bad XII user is going to outperfrom an average lucius user. Those who spent time with lucius though, learned the tricks, the shooting technique, have their muscle memory trained to not mess up charged shots? Those players will easily outperform even very good XII users. Ammo efficiency is definitely worse than XII though. 5. Boltgun - with correct build (for reloads and volley fire reload) it melts. Deadshot helps a lot with its stability, also if you have a decently rolled one (70+ stability) it already behaves more or less fine. Overall though, yeah, its not meant as a gunner control weapon, it has a different place, its a clutch tool that can burst down everything very fast. In its role it performs very well. Definitely deserves higher than B. 6. Shotgun - now this one can be a monster and yeah, it feels exactly like a shotgun should, unlike in most games. It can easily run 4s and 5s. Now, on its own, I would put it just above the revolver, it does what revolver does, but better and only lacks capability to penetrate carapace and it has some good vs group/horde potential (yeah, the special attack, the thing most ppl seem to not use enough). Now, once we start talking blessings.... Man-stopper is what you want. It gets ridiculous with it, again you want to run it with deadshot, but both special and normal attacks go through at least 5 targets on crits (that is as much as I was willing to push around for tests in meat grinder, and I'm talking gunners/bruisers here, although it does go through ragers/heavy gunners etc as well, mine has lvl 2 blessing, so higher/lower will differ) - and it doens't have to kill em, it will just blast through and do dmg. This means that by putting 2-3 special shells in ADS with deadshot into a poxwalkers group you can put a very significent dent in it (or almost entirely clear it) for the cost of almost no ammo. You could probably think of something nice with flechette (maybe on a zealot?) as well, but I haven't found a good enough one with that. Generally speaking a well rolled shotgun one taps gunners, puts on the ground and quickly kills most specials/elites and plays quite nice with deadshot. 7. Laspistol - huh, this one is a combat knife among guns ;) High mobility, great crits, very good weak spot dmg. It can easily perform on par with blue infantry lasgun, but yeah, its not a top tier material. 8. Plasma - hmm... I kinda agree with you, kinda don't. I still haven't discovered its playstyle well enough, but I feel its just around the corner - the key seems to be venting the heat by hurting yourself just enough to stay in the right heat threshold (depending on blessings). Maybe a D would be a correct spot for it? It can take out a lot of targets very fast, one taps gunners (the hitbox is kinda weird though, it has to be a high chest shot, if it catches too much of their arms, it will count as arm dmg). I feel like its biggest problem right now is low dmg vs maniacs, meaning it really struggles with mutants/flamers/drag ragers considering how much time and heat it requires to take em out. I guess it performs a role of boss/ogryn/speclist (when hidden behind a lot of trash) killer, a role that can definitely benefit a team, but is secondary in priority to gunner control. Also bolter can do it only slightly worse, while maintaining better capability against a lot of other targets.
I've played enough Darktide to have seen almost all of these weapons finally. I broadly agree and my eyes lit up when even my Psyker or Zealot got their hands on a decent (or really good) Kantrael XII. I've also tried that particular axe quite a bit, from early builds to "just lately". Very active playstyle but it works on a lot. Veteran has the frag to help with huge hordes regardless...
I think you're severely underestimating the helbore lasguns. With the buffs they're incredibly solid and should at least be in B imo. In fact, I'd argue the mk2 with +maniac dmg/flak/unarmored perks with Onslaught + Sustained Fire rivals the kantrael mk12 with ranged clear, but also handle armored better. I disagree with ammo efficiency being bad for the mk2, you can kill ranged without charging for 2 ammo on headshots(less ammo used than the mk12), or fully charged bodyshots for 3 ammo(same as mk12). A lot of elites/specialists die with 2 shots if one of the shots are in the head, using 5-6 ammo max. And this is without Volley Fire + Counterfire. The iron sights still are annoying to use at times but at least you're not blinded by the charging light anymore. The mk1 and mk3 have worse ammo efficiency with the uncharged and charged shots, though half charged shots can save a bit and are enough for certain breakpoints. I'm not sure if the mk1 has useful breakpoints that the mk2 doesn't so I think the mk2 is better than it until I have a good mk1 to compare with. The mk3 is a good cross between an mk12 and a plasma gun imo. Trade off elite blowing up power for better ranged clear without the need to vent.
As someone who almost exclusively uses autonatics- I would drop the graia braced autogun 2 tiers because it’s a terrible horde slayer at higher difficulty I have a 380 with current max damage and +25% damage perks (also have tried crit mods) on malice it can not one shot each horde enemy like you can push the other two to do and even tho it has much more fire rate, the Ammo count is not compareable enough to make this difference. The Graia autoguns are like the starter SMG from L4D2 The columnus are more like the M4 but it does not body pierce hordes it can one shot if you gave 80% damage and 25% VS unarmoured or Infested The Agripinaa, even on heresy, can still pull one shots AND it pierces so you can get 2 for 1 on hordes and it’s Precise, low spread let’s you actually hipshot counter snipe across map and headshot snipers with some focus that the other BAGs have a way harder time doing. The Agripinaa is much more versatile, hip accurate, and most of all ammo efficient when you compare the #bodies to bullets TLDR: Braced auto Graia is E at high diff, Columnus D, Agripinaa C. And that’s pushing their 80% and best perks.
bolter and power sword is the meta for people trying to solo damnation. Real veterans know they have to take care of elite, specials and gunners at ranged and let zealots clearing up the crowd. Combine your tier list with a zealot who have a crusher and a flamethrower and you have a really solid teamplay
I feel like this video assumes you're going to be on a pre-made team where your role is to shoot things in the distance and little else. If, like me, you play with randoms and need to assume a more generalized role, the bolt gun is hard to argue with. It does high damage that is effective against elites when you're firing in single shot mode, but the explosions from each round stagger nearby enemies which makes it good against hordes on full auto.
I actually player most of my games alone because I am often trying to record gameplay, so when I am placing these I am usually thinking from that perspective.
1000% Agree about the power sword. It has gotten me killed in Damnation due to its poor stamina economy and dodge. I love the shovel but it absolutely sucks balls at dealing with Crushers and if you meed to clutch against Crushers with a shovel, well your fucked. Only thing ilI disagree on is the Agripinna Mk1 Autogun is actually A or S tier. If you get 80% ammo stat thats 341 ammo which is actually enough and it is such a versatile gun its gotten me out of some bad situations because you can hip fire it accurately when you dont have time to Aim Down Sights.
I agree with everything in this list except for Helbore Lasgun rankings. I found Mk I a lot better than Mk III. The reason being is that its bayonet attacks are faster and actually more precise. Also the damage differnece between two is not that big and both deal damage to carapace armor, so I will take the faster bayonet option.
i wish the revolver had something like a speed loader. its a blast to use but it does have too much drawbacks despite its freight-truck punch and AP potential. i do run it everytime i play malice threat though, double taping them rippers, bouncing from head to heads or scoring lines of pox walkers with a gun the size of your forearm is priceless.
As long as I have 80% reload and a +% reload perk on it, I dont have an issue. (I use the feat that gives reload speed after an elite kill, and the F reloads for you)
For me personally Power Sword easily A tier if youre not blind and your situational awareness isnt lacking. Recons solid B, they perform just fine Heresy+, if youre not scoring consistent headshots then go back to sedition lol. Boltgun easily A, even with shooters you can easily handle it. Both Chain weapons objectively B because the rev time isnt even an issue after animation cancels and the Chainaxe registers 2 hits on 1 light swing (niche? maybe but it works) Its minute adjustments on most but the chainaxe and recons? Underestimating those big time
I am MARRIED to my Headhunter; I can drop Scabs from as far away as I can see them, and the stopping power is great. Capacity leaves something to be desired
Not surprised at all about the Antax combat axe. It's what i've been using and even without brutal momentum and mediocre perks/blessings, it can effectivly one shot common enemies on damnation and has a bit of cleave aswell. Although i do not understand why this can one shot commons but a rashad with the same moveset and 3 more damage cannot. Is it the cleave stat that somehow makes it do more damage? I tested an antax against a rashad with lower damage and first damage stats on damnation and the rashad needed 2 hits while the antax could do with only 1.
Well i cannot agree on power sword and plasma, if u don't have enough skill to use dodge+charge+2 heavy strikes to clean everything on your way then u shouldn't do any kind of tier lists. And plasma, first time i tried it I'm was confused WHY ITS SO BAD, but once i found one with almost god roll 80 charge speed, 80 anti heat and that was perfect! We run 5 dif as team of 2 people zealot + veteran and have like 70% successful missions, with plasma + power sword, and brutal axe + kantrael 12 on zealot. But i can totally agree that kantrael is WAY better than plasma.
For the Vet, i cant go past the Kantrael MgXII, the Boltgun and the Power Sword. Everythign else feels really weak on him, including the axe with Brutal Momentum (fits better on Zealot IMO). I really want to like the Plasma Gun, but i havent found a good with the high damage, resistance and charge time to form a good enough opinion on it yet, and id REALLY like the Hellbore, especially after the charge tiems got halved, but the iron sights are what kill it for me. Theyre good sights dont get me wrong, but i like to go for the designated targets out in the back, and partly due to my PC setup being on a 55inch 59mhz tv (not a very clear view) it can make that hard sometimes, so having the option of sticking the optic from the Kantrael onto it would bring it up a LOT for me.
Fatshark need to really increase the reload speed on the revolver and increase the ammo capacity on the shotgun to make them viable. They're both super fun weapons and just need a little bit of balancing love to actually be really good. Also almost every gun in the game needs better sights. Half the guns are totally unusable because you can't see anything you're shooting at when you aim down sights and the sights and recoil completely block your target.
i only disagree with the placement of the hellbore lasun mk3 it is really powerfull and is really usable in damnation with the quick charge up perk the more you use charged shots and the iron sight is a lot better than the otther 2, i personally run it on damnation with the holy shovel, i would place it in C or maybe even B
The shotgun can be used in higher difficulties. Taking tac reload makes up for its drawback. Also it feels more like a rifle because video games get shotguns wrong imo this feels like a real shot gun. Its bullets dont just disappear after traveling 5 feet.
funny is you can use this shotgun like a sniper rifle, it is really fgood if you can do headshots.
Glad to see another shotgun appreciator. I was surprised to see it ranked so low when it's one of the few shotguns in any game that uses slugs correctly as you described.
It needs to either have more ammo or more armor piercing. More ammo would be better because it’s more lore friendly I think.
I use the shotgun in the higher difficulties and I love it. The only real issue I have with it is if there are specials that I need to take out far away and crusher which is annoying but other than that worked great for me.
I want to experiment more with the shotgun, but I feel like it's dangerous for quickplay. Even deploying with one person I know allows for a lot of complimentary planning. Having said that, I'm sticking around Malice for the same reason (quickplay).
The Mk12 is unrivaled when it comes to what really matters as vet, killing specials and rooms full of shooters. No other gun can wipe squads of regular shooters quite as quickly or efficiently as the 12. It's powerful with just the right RoF.
Plus is a beautiful lasgun. *mwuah*
When it comes to raw killing potential the bolter is better especialy against the armored specialists/ogryns
But the small Magazin and small ammo pool make up for that
The Mk12 is only unrivaled against huge rifle mobs
Yeah as long as you bring something to read in between each shot it can muster.
It's like being in bullet time while everything else isn't
@@KneeCapHill For me personally, it's just enough time for my monkey brain to adjust and cook the next guy.
It's very comfortable for me.
ok a few things on the plasma gun,
1. With a 10% reload perk (and the 20% and 30% feats) you can get the reload to about 6 seconds, which I think is faster than a zealot reloads a boltgun. Not fast but much better.
2. With 80% on thermal resistance you get 4 charged shots before 100%, and 4 uncharged before the 37% heat venting damage breakpoint.
3. Charged shots are extremely heat inefficient, don't use them if possible.
4. Shoots through walls. I've kill tons of specials after/before they use map spawn door. For walls you do need to charge it however.
5. Shoots through cover, suppressed shooters? kill 10 or 12 and reload, or kill 4 vent then kill 4 more., XII better at killing shooters? Absolutely, But I see people running the Plasma and only shooting hard targets when it is far more versatile than that. you really need to hit that 4 shot thermal resistance break point tho.
6. Shoots through the team. Fantastic for mixed hordes. If the front line is tagging shit, you just melt the outlines right through the Ogryn's back.
Plasma is S/A tier.
Your job is to change your feats up to get that reload properly and just obliterate bosses/HVTs like Crushers, Reapers, Maulers, etc. A high damage/charged-up Plasma gun can one-shot a Crusher using the special ability and if you manage your heat properly you can easily kill 2 Crushers back to back. Your job is to melt bosses and let your teammates handle the rest.
That's totally fine if that's your role in your group, but I think anti armour vets are more niche and this tierlist is a more generalization of the most versitile weapons.
The plasma gun can shoot through walls and can one-shot elites and specials on heresy and damnation with an incomplete charge when using volley fire. You don't even need to headshot the enemies. With the higher difficulties, you're hard-pressed to find a more reliable special killer, which in most cases is your primary role as a veteran.
I do dispute your claims though. Every veteran with a bolter Iv'e seen so far on damnation is killing it. It can just deal with every situation better than what the MK XII lasgun can. I would atleast pair it on S tier with it. Bolter and power sword is very much the meta right now imo.
While I would've rated the bolter slightly higher, it really can't handle every situation better than the MkXII. The recoil and fewer ammo per magazine mean you can't really clear a room full of shooters as quickly and precisely as you would with the MkXII. It's still an amazing weapon and it melts everything you point it at, but the MkXII right now is the superior weapon.
The bolter, by designer intention, is not as versatile, so if your team can deal with that lack of versatility, the bolter will kill it, so to speak, and kill many things in the process. I'm trying to get more used to using it. If all else fails, I'm pretty good with the XII.
The bolter is useless in a horde
Fuck the meta, you're a guardsman not an Astartes
Your forgetting the issue where you don't have the right teammates especially in higher difficulties you'll definitely end up leaning heavy on your melee weapon and will have to work harder to get to a safer position to use it probably focusing on taking down heavy or armored enemies even bosses but in higher difficulties you'll has crap tons of those bosses and heavies and they'll all be armored as well as whole platoons of armored snipers dogs armored berserkers them mf linebacker ones that tackle you and then throw you like a ragdoll off the ledge n shit you'll need better teammates for the sake of better positioning to make it your melee won't save you
I think the Power Sword is being slightly underestimated here. There is some clunkiness in usability, but what it brings to the table is 1-2 shot horde clear and strong special/Elite damage. It's incredibly powerful especially with the Power Cycler blessing that can make it go from like a 3 power swing to like an 7-8 power swing. This means if done optimally, you can clear out a huge chunk of the horde and then follow it up with a swing on an Elite/Special. I've beaten several Damnation runs with it
Otherwise good tier list!
I disagree if you were to ask me to take power sword over a tac axe I would take the tac axe everytime. Mobility is very important and usually I see vets go down by hordes because they commit too much to their power sword and get swarmed
I believe that the Catachan Mk VII Swords don't penetrate armour. They just cleave. So, using a Lasgun, which also doesn't penetrate Carapace while carrying a Sword isn't advisable. The Combat Axe and the Power Sword are better suited to be paired with the Lasgun. Lastly, if you're doing Assasinations, the Lasgun doesn't do much against the Boss' power shield. Carry 'Bullet' weapons rather than 'Laser' weapons for him instead. GGs.
Why I like to pair my melee with AP or vice versa. Why I usually use the plasma gun for AP needs and then a solid melee for CC.
Think tabletop rules. Then weapon choice becomes easier. Lasguns are terrible for AP, autoguns are better versatility due to their AP. More damage doesnt mean much if that damage gets sorbed by armor
It would have been nice if we could have wielded the pistols with one handed melee. Use special attack to hip fire while slashing away. They missed a trick with that and it would have been an interesting way to play that gave a point to carrying the smaller weapons.
I rate the bolter muh lower and the helbore a little higher (Iwould put it on par with infantry lasguns if it equipped as fast) with the green one being my favourite, the brown second and blue distant third. I also like the green headhunter in a run and gun play style: aim for the chest and the second shot hits the head. I only really play heresy or drop down a level if there are no missions I want to do at that level.
I understand the brown infantry lasgun is the best for doing the veteran's main job well and good enough for everything else, but it just feels boring. Still solid S though. Oddly enough I rate the powersword at least an A, but avoid using it for the same reason.
After using the power sword for a dozen games I wanted to try other things just to try them (on Malice), I'd proven that the weapon works pretty well.
I was a little on the fence on how much to go into each placement for the weapons, was this too much detail too little? let me know :)
You should have been on the fence about using the German Krieg Outfit next to Veteran "SS" in your thumbnail lmao
@@nex4613 Yup that one went under my radar, changed now
@@Dalkoragaming all good 🤣
I think overall the amount of detail you gave was good. Could have talked a little more about the S and A picks, what blessings to aim for and all that jazz, since those are the weapons that most people will want to aim for. All the others were completely fine, short and to the point, with the obvious exceptions being more controversial placements. Staying under 15min run time is probably a good length.
something i gathered in passing but i think a lot of people missed was how the ranks were actually compared to one another.
Its a wee bit of context that could have made the video easier to process , and accept what the ratings were.
for example, something like ((also jesus sorry for how long this is lmao))
S rank: you can pick this weapon at any time, it is always excellent, and will always serve you well.
A rank: with the Propper blessing, this weapon is excellent and can cameo as S tier. . Without the Propper blessing, it is a solid weapon that will struggle in niche situations
B rank: Consistently okay, or extremely strong in specific scenarios, but weak in very common scenarios (like running out of ammo). Requires specific perks or blessings to be more consistently powerful.
C rank; solid in specific scenarios, but not so strong that it can do better then any other weapon in that scenario. REQUIRES specific perks to function at all, let alone be actually good.
D rank: has one purpose, and is outclassed by other guns in the majority of scenarios but CAN do some niche things well. with perks, can become more consistent
E rank. is marginally better then not having a weapon at all. With the right perk and blessings, its okay, but its always outclassed by other guns even at the things its supposed to be good at.
F rank: is worse then not having a weapon at all, using it means not taking a much better weapon that is more consistently helpful
Power Sword goes in A or S simply by virtue of being an anti-armor capable melee and it reliably staggers Crushers in 2 powered lights. If you're ever having mob issues with the power sword, you have a big skill issue, whether in use or positioning, and if you're having a dodge count problem, get better at dodging with timing instead of whenever.
THIS!
I know it’s kind of suggestive but if you use the lvl 30 perk that insta reloads your gun the bolt is fucking amazing. Been clearing lvl 5 with it. Even in situations with lots of gunners. That said taking out gunners is always better to have a las gun for sure
How do you manage ammo? I'm empty very quick
@@shiugen676 GREED!!! joke a side i only use the bolt gun for elites and gunners so its not that hard to manage. im mostly running around with my power sword. keep in mind that the Vet gets the most shields back from melee kills in the game so its not hard to deal with the hordes.
@@beanerwiddagun3207 I didn't know this about vet shield recovery. That explains why I feel surprisingly tanky meleeing hordes. Thanks!
Which perk is that?
@@pix00l the lvl 30 one where F reloads your gun and restored toughness.
Wholeheartedly agree with the bolter, it's great to shoot and has its uses. However, almost every random veteran i get on Heresy and Damnation is going to bring a Bolter+Power Sword and will melt to a room full of scab gunners. It feels like a weapon that is great to have if there's only one on the team.
It would cool to have a video where you list real S tier end game weapons, meaning specifically weapons with the right perks, that way if we see something in the shop we can quickly identify if it's worth grabbing or not. Just don't include weapons that aren't end game viable no matter what perks they have, etc. So video isn't excessively long.
I think it's worth mentioning that while I can think of situations wear the bolter, plasma gun, Lucius pattern lasgin's, and stub revolver are excellent ...
I do so while thinking of specific perks and specific arrangements of perks tailored for each of them
Without those perks specifically arranged These guns can be a miserable experience
And I think this tearlist actually does a good job of reflecting how specialized your build needs to be in order to make the different weapons work
Main issue that's many weapons currently suffering from terrible design. Lucius got ugly iron sight while being "precise" weapon. While Imperium won't fukup thier mass produces weapons devs are. Considering that's "F" group is largest of all mean that FS doing something terrible wrong. Lasgun should have core+modules system with swapping periphery and different buffs/debuffs for each module. That's not even beta it's EA game pretending to be release.
@@MrEvilPotato
Personally don´t have a problem with the hellbore ironsight.
As a higher tier veteran main, a couple of thoughts.
1. Bolter should be higher up, if you have a boltgun with good roles, one with rending + pinning fire + unyielding + reload speed, yes this is a lot, but basically don't use the bolt gun without rending + unyielding + reload speed. You can mitigate the weapons low reload speed with + reload speed feats or sustained fire. You can also treat this as an ogrin killer with the level 30 feat to kill ogrins and have another member (like another sharpshooter with counterfire) to deal with the ranged.
2. Plasma should be higher tier, it has a higher skill cap but if you understand how to use it, it is at least A tier, similarly to the boltgun, you can mitigate its weaknesses with reload speed perks/feats. It also has the benefit of killing ranged unites behind cover and the ability to get it out fast and kill a few things when it is spicy.
3. Mark XII lasgun S tier... yeap, that + counterfire destroys ranged/elites, you just need someone to take out ogrins/crushers.
I don't know what you are smoking with the power sword in B tier, you clearly haven't found a really high rolled one. For reference I have a near max damage/max cleave + 25% damage to maniacs and flak armored with rampage and brutal momentum... the thing insta clears everything with brutal momentum. If instead of rampage I had energy cycler it would be god tier rolled. This auto clears horde even on basically damnation levels, yes I have to charge it up a lot, but it doesn't matter because one push/charge will clear everything in front of me.
the agripina braced autogun should be at least a tier higher than the other braced autoguns, using volleyfire and firing in bursts is surprisingly accurate even at a distance and combined with the feat that lets you see all scab shooters lets you keep that volley fire going, my favorite gun tbh
it combo well when you have ally with big hitting stuff I use it too to clear hord of gunner
The autoguns are disgusting if used correctly. You can swarm clear with it thanks to the collateral. And they can do solid DPS. Very flexible.
Plasma gun has so many dirty tricks you can do with it. People that write it off have no idea what they are missing. Only weapon I have seen that can straight up wall bang or floorbang. I can save someone from a hound by shootijg through a floor or wall with it. Or just cover shoot specials through a wall. And the charged shot is the single most powerful shot in the game. Mastering the plasma gun is worth it. I learned so many dirty tricks you can do with it that none of the other weapons can do.
@@convergence1point i really want to like the plasma gun but its just not really my playstyle, i appreciate it in capable hands tho, im just a braced autogun and boltor kinda guy
The Agrippinaa braced should be S-tier if you ask me. It may not be good for taking out snipers and enemies on long distance, but you can wipe out pretty much everything else with ease.
i really don't see how the bolter and power sword are anything less than A. yes - in a perfect game you don't want to be clearing hordes, but that's just not realistic especially if you cannot control your team comp, or if you have bad players, both of which happen regularly. it can also shred armor, which helps save bolter ammo against said armor.
the bolter is almost as good as the MK12 Lasgun. all of the negatives you mentioned are true, but good aim and positioning negate most of that. plus you often hit multiple enemies from the penetration which conserves ammo. i also cannot overstate how insanely useful it against armor and large mobs. often times teams have a hard time dealing with them - a bolter does not...ever.
Funny, I use the recon guns on malice and above, hah.
edit: I keep hearing people saying the Mk XII lasgun is great, but it's so slow, it's too easy to get overwhelmed with the numbers you deal with in hersey+
I never see people mention that the heavy recon lasgun is the only lasgun that can penetrate pox walker hordes. I use it on my psyker with great effect.
Take note,for infantry autogun, mk 1 is the "heavy variant" and mk 8 is the middle. The light is correct.
Do NOT see the gun colour. Its the only one that is "wrong" and dont fit the standard of blue > green > tan for light medium heavy variant.
I thinking putting range and melee in the same tier list is bad. There are lot of synergies between weapons. So you need to understand how they play with each other. I saw everyone shit on flamethrower and say it’s not viable in higher difficulties. I run flamethrowers and knife for my group on Zeolot. It works fine.
Flamethrower is GOD tier on Damnation anyone saying it's shit are just noobs.. It can shit on a horde + elites + special at the same time if you know to setup the position correctly.. Even in those unexpected situations it is a life saver because it staggers even those damn Ragers easily..
Honestly it is a must have if you want a higher chance of clearing damnation with random groups
Flamer is insane
This is very true, I think I will talk more to this when I make the next list. Thanks for the feedback!
A tier list can only do so much, but I think you're on to something for other types of videos. I'll keep it in mind for my own use. It's still nice to get someone's view of all these Vet weapons in one place though.
The E tier las recon gun is about A tier imo. Like you said with crit and burn effects it has some nice damage. But with good damage bonuses, and base stats, coupled with the vets feat to auto reload with his power skill, the gun effectively has a 200+ round mag. Can literally single handedly clear a horde, or burn through several armored elites per mag. (vets can also get +25% crit chance when aiming...) The gun is for sure C or D tier on other classes tho
The Agrippina braced autogun should be higher imo like B or A more specifically, if you get good rolls for it plus get the right feats, you turn your veteran from a midline/backline class into a powerful Frontline gunner that can clear rooms within a matter of seconds if done correctly. I've had no issues running the Agrippina in heresy or damnation runs, paired with a power sword and you're pretty much good to go in terms of having something to take care of carapace and cheesing through the rest of the specials in this game. That gun is nutty and needs more light shed onto it.
Would love to see an updated version of this given some of the changes we've had, namely to the headhunter autoguns, shredder pistol, availability of blessings, and just overall developed game understanding of the community.
Nice summary, and I agree to most of it. However, I would put the Bolter a Tier up. Yes, it has a terrible long reload and ready time, and the tac. reload should definitely be chosen for it. On the other side, depending on your team, especially when running higher Tiers with randoms, it is a great relief weapon: unloading a mag in a group clears out a lot, taking down Muties and Bulwarks works great with it. So if you are conserving ammo and play more like a burst damage specialist, a Bolter is a great choice imho. I usually run a shovel with a Mk XII or Bobo, the friendly Bolter, depending on my team.
yea bolter is really good since it can kill anyone with a single clip. it also easily scare low tier enemies.
Plus if you actually aim pretty well and dont full auto everything the ammo is really doable
Different tactical axes have better movesets for cleave vs single target, don't they? I think the MK2 has a heavy chain that cleaves with both hits but the others have one or both heavy attacks as strikedown
At least that's how it works for Zealot versions - always looking for the Brutal Momentum MK2
IIRC All the tac axes are triple "assassin" light attacks which strike only one enemy and have double strike down heavy combos. Despite how the animations might differ I think the end result is the same. Though with how information is sometime presented in Darktide I'm not going to be surprised if that's wrong haha.
@@Dalkoragaming ah, lame
@@Dalkoragaming they might list that the attacks are the same but in actuality the different axes have most importantly different swings/amounts of cleave on their heavies. mk II has two cleaving heavy attacks, the mk IV has cleaving lights but single target heavies, and the mk VII has one cleaving heavy and one single target heavy. Running the mk II with brutal momentum is very fun, the others don't shine as much in my opinion
@@Dalkoragaming all have different swinging animations.
Mk8 and mk 2 tact have a very very very strong push attack heavy combo that with brutal momentum, can mince any horde, even MIXED horde. Its better than mk5 combat only in dodge distance and atk speed (aka safety).
As for lights, mk5 tact has a diagonal light. Which works with brutal momentum as well. But outshined by mk 2 and 8 heavy which is diagonal (I.e. works godly with brutal momentum)
A brutal momentum + shred mk 2 with crit chance is my holy grail for my zealot. Too bad its basically just rng, but I still check every now and again.
The agrippina infintry is actually pretty good with a high dmg and stopping power roll if you roll 25+ flak armor you can get the to one shot the regular shooters in damnation with a headshot and 2 shot the heavy gunners and you can even 1 shot them with a good roll on the blessings
I've got a mk3 with Crucian Roulette and Headhunter and it's pretty good, but I do feel the ammo issues and iron sights really make it hard to use
Well putting hellbore in lowest tiers is interesting. They can out perform MK12. Even a base mk2 hellbore will be fast enough to clear a room. Let alone one shot body shot shooters deal with crushers and have a good ammo economy. I agree that mk3 can be slower, but mk1 with onslaught feels like mk2 and even a mk2 with onslaught feels like mk12 but better. I would say do more testing on those weapons. It took me a while to get used to it but its worth it specially on damnation. Two tapping reapers isnt something to ignore in my honest opinion.
I use controller, and the only hellbore lasgun that feels usable, and very good I should say, is the mk2
If hellbore had aiming optics it would definitely beat mk12
@@pix00l I do think the mk III should have a scope, making it a unique sniper weapon countering it's slow fire.
MK3 hellbore with a crit build is working pretty well for me, 1/2 shots gunners in general and chunks ogryns as well.
But a lot of this is dependent on the particular stats and perks you have, they can really chance how a weapon works out.
@@pix00l It would jump to A if it had a red dot at the very least I am 100% with you here
Tactical Axes are amazing. The heavy is a very good sweep especially with brutal momentum and the light is a decent assassin chain. I got a god roll power sword (both blessings and both perks) but even that feels clunky vs my tac axe. Not saying its better than a power sword (which is kinda OP) but the feeling is fun and its viable.
Let's hear it for fun and viable...
Atrox II with brutal momentum is really fun, I just spam heavies and it always clips through a few enemies each swing
I agree for the most part. My only qualms are:
The Shotgun: yes it doesnt feel like a shotgun at close range, but it does as much damage as the Kantrael heavy when you headshot foes and has a nice AoE spread special. I feel it should be C-B
The Catatchan Swords while good for clearing hordes have no Carapace potential whatsoever. I feel its a C-B
- As a Sidenote I feel as if you were a bit harsh on the Ironsights. Yes some of them are really bad but I myself dont find them that difficult to use.
As for my personal success:
- Also Ive had much personal success with the Lucius and Accatran VIIa Lasguns on Heresy Difficulty. I have not done Damnation with them yet. For my Lucius I just have amazing Blessings on it that allow me to fire as fast as the Kantrael lasgun (at half charge). It does as much damage and is Carapace piercing. Maybe thats just my blessings though.
- As for the Accatran VIIa lasgun specifically, it does have twice as much damage per shot as the other variants and really doesnt lack fire rate. Yes its horrible against anything with armor. However I find it amazing when clearing hordes and lots of shooters. Since it has so little recoil, I can reliably land headshots against shooters even when suppressed. They just die so fast when hit by 2-3 of my shots in the span of half a second...
- I would agree with you that most of the time these 2 patterns of guns are not good whatsoever. However Ive had a lot of personal success with them on Heresy difficulty...
I love the accatran 7a for clearing hordes and shooters and it’s still not bad against unarmored elites. I run it with the combat knife to use against crushers and bulwarks
@@epicdoggo4925 I run the combat knife or an axe of some sort with my accatran to balance the AP damage. Honestly the braced autoguns are better for clearing hordes but aren't as good as shooting gunners. But as a veteran... Err.. veteran... Lol... It's fun to mix it up and not always run Kantrael...
@@KnudAutlermann I think of it as a sort of Jack of all trades. It isn’t the best at anything but it can still be decent at whatever you need it to. It’s probably the most versatile weapon IMO
I agree completely with this list. Interestingly though, I put the shotgun up high, if it's a zealot. Combos well with a knife as it gives good pushback and can easily kill snipers across the map.
But if I saw a Vet using it I would roll my eyes
I switched to revolver instead of shotgun, the revolver's ability to punch through an unlimited number of enemies means you can kill those long range enemies even if they are behind a wall of enemies. Great for when you know there's a bomber, burster, gunner, etc behind the chaff enemies who we can see the highlighted silhouette of. =P
I use it as a vet.
On level 1 to speed run weekly quests for shits and giggles.
I do good with Helbore MK III on Heresy. It does require a lot of skill and positioning. I do think it should've had a sniper scope though to really make it unique as a sniper designated weapon. Haven't yet tried it on Damnation yet though.
We'll probably get the Long Las in a DLC or something eventually so they might be holding off on giving anything a proper scope to make it more unique.
@@DeMause hope so since I have built a dedicated sniper build✌
I agree with everything except for power sword, revolver, and combat shotgun. Vtide players are gonna have different skills to apply to this game that compensate for certain weapon mechanics. A quick dodge is all it takes to stay safe while charging power sword so I feel it's easily A tier. When I play revolver I only focus priority and a few other range targets so ammo is just enough(does need reload perk and modifier value)so I think revolver is easily B if you get a decent one. The combat shotgun has crazy flexible "firing uptime" like the revolver and it also has incredible stagger and range. I think low B tier. It is my most used weapon on sharpshooter and I mostly play heresy. Please give the combat shotgun another chance. I think you are missing out.
How on God's green Earth is the Boltor F tier? Dude, no. Get an Orange one with amazing stat rolls, perk, and bonuses, and have a good build, you're good.
Activate your ability with said Boltor, and unload on a monstrosity and you'll see what I mean. Can the Lasgun hit without as much recoil? Yes. Does it do full auto and clear a crowd or melt anything infront of you? No.
You only looked at the thumbnail before commenting? I gotchu! hahaha
@@Dalkoragaming
To be fair, the thumbnail should be part of the video, no?
Great video. I look forward to similar ones for the other classes!
Recon lasguns are bad? Strong disagree, they are basically las LMGs and are really good at clearing out trash and shooters. The non-existent recoil also makes them very accurate. They're solid B tier, with the mk6 being closer to A tier because of the fire rate.
Also, powersword in B? Really? That thing is easily an S tier weapon, it can shred hordes, elites, bosses, specials etc. It's extremely versatile.
Stopped watching when power sword was placed in B
considering the Vets intended role as the teams specialist/heavy killer, theBolter seems pretty damn good for that, and i have seen ppl used it in Damnation with great success tbh. even without the capabilites to deal with spread out hordes, as soon as they are funneled, the bolter makes quick work with its multiple enemy penetrating bullets ^^ but i might be a bit biased since its one of my fav weapons in 40k * ^^ * still think it should have been in A tier tho, but in the end its not my list ofc ^^
The Accatran MK 7a lasgun is quite good at clearing hordes and basic shooters while still not being terrible against elites. Yes it’s useless against crushers but other than that it is quite versatile and certainly not deserving of f teir
i agree with your placent of the boltgun, i main vet currently and i’ve caught a bit of flak for not using it in higher diffs but honestly it just feels like a noob trap.
By the time most people first unlock it they are most likelt still playing T2 or T3, they bring it along because hey, it’s a boltgun. They fire it into a cluster of elites or against a crusher and it does amazingly well, as it should. But it simply doesnt have the ammo efficiency to do that in higher difficulties where elites are alot meatier and more abundant. You’re also foregoing your ability to kill shooters at range effectively in favour of doing something else that other classes can do just as well.
The reason I kept going back to the Kantrael is purely because I am in the position of doing quickplay, and if people are relying on me taking on the world (of ranged opponents), the Bolter won't get that done. It will get other things done, but not that. Two Veterans paired up with complimentary weapons are probably a scary, scary force though.
the plasma gun can shoot threw medium and thin walls , you can one shot marked elite units while keeping cover , you may need a bit of protection from your team but i think it can be usefull on some maps.
Chainsword should be way higher as you dont need to wait for the animation to end.
This list is catered towards a specific style of game play. I'd argue a lot of reversals for more aggressive styles.
sounds like its catered towards sharpshooters, who shoot enemy long range combatants.
@@Koranthus
Surprised the hellbore is so low considering that, doing work with a MK3 crit hellbore.
Plasma gun works very well in certain scenarios. But it should function more like the psykers fireball staff
Bro power sword at b?
yep, accurate. It shreds but sucks the higher you go when damage is not all you need.
@@Koranthus How does it sucks the higher you go? That thing melts through hordes and shits on flak and carapace armor no other weapon comes close to being as good as power sword on Damnation.. I even wish my Zealot could use one lol
put in 20+ hours with the vet before i even got to use the bolter, and that’s only because i bought it and upgraded it; absolutely love it. it’s definitely not as versatile as some of the other weapons but it’s just so much fun to use, and the gore is so satisfying. i was using the grupina for the longest time, which is one of my faves still, but i think the bolter will be a mainstay for a good while.
I stopped using Power sword because of the horrible mobility, and I use the dagger until I can try brutal momentum on that axe.
Would love a tier list of blessings for the best sharpshooter weapons.
Keep them coming!
Having to activate the power sword for every single swing is a big minus in its favor. But without powering it up, it doesn't do enough damage.
@@silverfischdotnet I agree, I only like it when I’m not the focus of the enemies.
@@teddyvabson I have zero problems using the power sword, activate, slash, slash, dodge, activate repeat. It doesn't matter if mobility is low, even a small sidestep is still enough dodge I-frames. I've even done the majority of damage to a Beast and a Plagueyn with it on Heresy (Though mine does have +25% unyielding) and on Damnation still carries me through everything bar Ogryns.
The power sword is still the best melee for the Vet, hands down.
@@cyanide7270 don’t get me wrong I love the damage on power sword, it’s probably the most powerful weapon for veteran. My problem is that I struggle to get away from the enemies with it, I know it can be done but I was a lot more successful after I switched to combat blade. Most likely it’s a skill issue on my part.
@@teddyvabson Nah im not going to say its a skill issue (i hate that whole mentality, along with "git gud") if it dont work for you, it dont work for you, just saying im not finding the same issues with it. Also does depend a bit on the stats and blessings+perks you get on the weapon. I know people prefer the Eviscerator or Thunder hammer on the Zealot, or especially the combat blade, personally i prefer the Antax combat axe with Shred does wonders for me.
We each have our own preferences.
Shotgun should be in C imo. It can do great damage and with the auto reload park you don’t have to worry about the reload too much. It just needs either more ammo or more ap to get to higher tiers.
Shredder in F... tell me you don't have an idea what you talking about without straight telling me you don't have any idea what you talking about.
sooo, would you rather have 80 mobility 58 defenses or 78 defenses 53 mobility on the sapper shovel, assuming the rest of the stats and perks are the exact same?
Honestly, this is kinda boring, you pretty much want a boring but reliable weapon, which is understandable, but makes it kinda bland, most of the fun weapons are low tier, but then again they it might mean they should be buffed
Yeh I knew that going in, that's why I felt the need to mention it wasn't going to be a comment on how fun the weapons are xD Though if you flip the ranks around you pretty much get the "fun" tier list.
oh boy having ABSOLUTELY no idea what your talking about with that biased weapon placement
Honestly while the MG XII lasgun is amazing in terms of ammo efficiency and long range engagements it is absolutely terrible at close range. Turning a corner into 6 ragers is quite common in damnation and i would rather have a bolter or braced auto to delete everything in front of me in a few seconds.
The bolter is a weapon that heavily relies on blessings to be effective. Its also not a weapon you want to have more than once on your squad, but having one is amazing for taking out crushers in a second.
Braced autos are generally really underrated. They outshine all other weapons in terms of dps on close to midrange engagements. They have amazing surpression against all gunner type enemies. And if you are skilled you can keep your ult (and with that Unwavering Focus) up indefinitly. Do not use the graia braced though, its by far the worst version of the weapon.
braced autogun are not underrated, they are bad guns for a sharpshooter, who should not be worried about close-mid range. Anyone can shoot that far, your job as the SHARPSHOOTER is to accurately shoot at mid-long range targeting enemy shooters primarily. The mark 12 is bad at close range, but you shouldn't be concerned with short range, that is what your teammates and your melee weapon are for.
The bolters clunkyness can be played around with slide canceling and reload slides. if you use it with rending, role unyeilding on it, it's one of the only weapons in the game that can nuke mixed hordes and big boys with ease. it has a unique playstyle and isn't for everyone, and requires a lot from the user as it's a very high skill demanding weapon, but I strongly feel B is to low for how well it does it's specific job. it's obviously not a gun you want to be shooting none stop through the match. it's kind of in a one of a kind spot right now.
I understand the reload slides, but can you confirm what you mean by slide canceling? If you start the weapon swap and then slide, it cancels the drawing animation only, but still locks you from firing until the ghost animation is completed - this negates the benefit of it. I could be doing it incorrectly though
@@in0m4d24 sliding at the start of the cocking animation feels faster to me. I don't have the appropriate software to time it though. it could just be in my head.
I agree with the bolter and plasma gun not being too high. My friends are all about them for the damage, but I find them way too clunky.
The Mk. 8 rifle has been my work horse. It has poor accuracy and you need to use controled bursts if the target is far away. With practice, I can snipe targets far away, as the first two shots are pretty accurate. It's high damage and ammo efficiency allow me to mow down small and medium enemies up to medium range.
I'm not giving up my power sword for anything. It has good damage and excellent crowd control. You don't absolutely need to charge it up when fighting back a horde, just for bigger targets.
Maybe tierlists update? 😊
Despite your negative assessment, I still love the recon lasgun. I have tons of fun using it to just mow down hordes of enemies or to focus down elite targets.
I agree with about half of these but I get the impression you haven't given these more than a mission using any of them if that. Shotgun, rev, autoguns, all should be higher imo. Not going into tac axe and other melee weapon movesets was also pretty disappointing. A few other disagreements: Bolter feels great but should be C at best. Power sword is used by meta slaves sure but it's def still an S right now.
Check my other Tier Lists for Daktide:
Zealot Ranged: ruclips.net/video/rCAX2pjrXM0/видео.html
Ogryn: ruclips.net/video/YsmMNcAcUJ8/видео.html
Zealot Melee: ruclips.net/video/wkFRYg-Buoo/видео.html
Psker: ruclips.net/video/LO2RjMzBtCQ/видео.html
totally agree with this tier list. The kantrael mk12 lasgun is just INSANE in damage, ammo efficiency and has a scope.
The shotgun shouldn't be in F, it has some of the most utility of all the ranged weapons, duck spread clears hordes, buckshot is great from hipfire, and the ads slugshot lets you continue to respond to long range threats. The only downside is the long reload, but that can be heavily mitigated by the level 10 and 25 feats and finally rolling a reload perk on the shotgun in question. Blessings for stagger damage can also make this pretty monstrous. Also, keep in mind the reload animation resets after each shell being loaded, so you're always triggering the level 10 feat.
Maybe you can say it's A tier, but it's an S for me.
Headhunter autoguns rated higher than the mark VIIA recon lasgun, are we even using the same weapons?
I'd honestly put the braced agripinaa in B, I happen to really like this gun and I find it almost rivals the lasguns in terms of just killing mobs of shooters, I find it's extra penetration and higher DPS make up for the downsides, and I think it's easily the most efficient autogun available.
You're not wrong about the plasma gun but also it is so fun to be able to blow the carapace ogryns away that I don't care.
Your arguement concerning ammo effeciency of the Lucius Mk II is wrong, I think. Uncharged 2 units - charged 4. And it charges quite fast, while having a decent RoF if fired uncharged. I think it's the way better gun then the Mk III on any difficulty.
I took your recommendation on the S tier combat axe, found one with massive damage and upgraded it to master crafted, just to get the limb splitter blessing...
Ouch that sucks, Limbsplitter is awwwwful :
Boltor has saved my butt more than any other weapon in this game. I understand people have their likes and dislikes but coming from someone that hasn't put down the weapon since day 1 once that recoil is mastered assuming you have a high stability roll its really hard to go back to any range weapon lol.
Bolt Gun for me is an A tier weapon i have highest survival rate using it with randoms in LV5, with the right stats and its rapid fire feature (stopping, atleast high reloading 50 and up) it could be use for crowd control situation, specialist and support with good curios. the greatest drawback of the boltgun is its reloading time.
i think a lot of people mislabel simple iron sights as bad. Theres nothing wrong with a simple sight like the revolver; a nice little simple shape and the bullets go right where youre pointing every time.
You can do 3 heavies plus 1 light attack on power sword before need to recharge it. Best power weapon in the whole game.
When the krieg death korp skin hits
I will forever take the shovel with the lucius mk III.
The lack of a complet flesh out crafting system (the option to chance blessings) makes this a hard one to "judge" for me...
I dont agree
I mostly disagree with your opinion on the Accatran Mk6d. I've used this weapon with great success in Heresy and Damnation difficulties. It's a powerful tool to reduce hordes at any range and has enough dps to remain relevant against elites and ogryns. I do agree, however, that the infernus blessing is almost a must on the higher difficulty settings.
After the buffs the Helbore's are legit amazing weapons. Greatly disagree about Bolter's ammo, Boltguns ammo efficiency is really good overall due to the sheer power of each shot/each shot can kill multiple enemies.
yes, 100 % true. First time i unlocked the plasmagun i thought "shit, is this gun bad".
I get kicked from damnation runs for not bringing a power sword, which is why I switched to zealot.
Really? Those people suck..
You are incredibly wrong about the Mk VIII braced autogun. With Unwavering Focus you just rush in there and kill everything before the zealot even has a chance to go melee.
Also the suppression and stagger on it are very high giving you control over hordes of shooters with suppression, and control over elites like maulers and ragers by just sending them directly to the ground with the stagger preventing them to even attack.
Easily an A tier weapon, and yes you can make long shots with it if you're not trigger happy.
Huh, I would say I agree with melee weapons - with the exception of chainaxe, it requires a lot of block and push attacks, but it has one of the best stamina efficiency for pushes and blocks (with high defence and mobility rolls), I've felt bad about using it in 4s and 5s at first, but once I've learned... In a way, its similar to sword&shield in Vermintide. It also has some tricks to its light and heavy attacks that require learning - lights stick to targets like a shorter specials, heavies hit multiple enemies without sticking, also light requires a preemptive/simultaneous dodge to not make you stuck.
Ranged however? It seems to me like you haven't tested some of them enough, the correct rolls for breakpoints are what makes or breaks a lot of em and blessings are also very important for a couple of em. I will... Write a long msg about a lot of guns, to spread out some knowledge, as I feel veterans are currently stuck with a very few guns that are relatively easy to play, don't require testing/rolls/blessings to perform and can deliver - which isn't exactly bad, but there is a lot of diversity in the game and a lot of guns that can perform very well in 4s and 5s, but just haven't been explored enough IMO (either the breaktpoints/blessings haven't been tested or the shooting techniques and usage haven't been discovered enough).
1. Vraks headhunter - easily just below XII in terms of performance, with right rolls (and + flak dmg) it gets 2-1(on crit) tap on gunners without even volley fire active. It's a crit machine and has to be build around it imo - so you need one with crucian roulette. It also plays a lot better with deadshot than infantry lasguns, very tight hipfire allows for stamina conservation and ADSing when its needed for far/higher priority targets. Generally speaking it deals better with flak armour than infantry lasguns and its higher ROF comes in handy to clear against bunched up targets, in a clutch it can even clear some room for you vs horde/bruisers. A lot worse vs maniacs though and slightly worse vs unyielding. Also crits are what makes or breaks its ammo efficiency, but with roulette and deadshot it can hit average 40-50% crit rate.
Haven't tested enough the other headhunters, although currently I think the 2 round burst is screwed (not sure if it can hit correct breakpoints vs flak), but the 3 round one might have potential.
2. Recons, I would say the one you listed higher is actually the worst - it's not apparent at first, but even though it has same dmg as the green one, its vs flak modifier is a lot worse. The green one I haven't tried enough, the brown can easily hold its own on 4/5 - with high enough rolls and + flak dmg it kills most gunners with short 3 rounds bursts. Thats the thing though, it shouldn't be used to just spray&pray - short, controlled bursts take out a lot of targets very effectively (headshots help ofcourse), sustained fire for ogryns, specialists, ragers. It struggles against maniac targets unfortunately, but it definitely deserves at least a d rating.
3. Infantry autoguns - agripinaa (the high dmg one) can play very well at 4/5, again, short controlled bursts and sustained fire in a pinch. I would say easily on par with braced autoguns, added points for more versatility. The other 2... Uh, yeah columnus and graia seem to be bad. I would put them somewhere at the bottom.
4. All luciuses pierce through carapace and I would put them all at the top, maybe Mk 1&2 lower. The thing is, those are high skill ceiling, hard to use, high performance. Once you learn em, they easily outperform XII with their high per shot charge dmg and ability to charge shots in hipfire and ADS just for a deadshot bonus (works really well with mk3, decently with mk1, not worth the effort with mk2 most of the time). They can take out gunners just as effectively as a XII, can deal with carapace very well, take out reapers with 1 crit to the head. The only targets vs which the XII really outshines em is mutants. Overall luciuses require a lot of practice and even a bad XII user is going to outperfrom an average lucius user. Those who spent time with lucius though, learned the tricks, the shooting technique, have their muscle memory trained to not mess up charged shots? Those players will easily outperform even very good XII users. Ammo efficiency is definitely worse than XII though.
5. Boltgun - with correct build (for reloads and volley fire reload) it melts. Deadshot helps a lot with its stability, also if you have a decently rolled one (70+ stability) it already behaves more or less fine. Overall though, yeah, its not meant as a gunner control weapon, it has a different place, its a clutch tool that can burst down everything very fast. In its role it performs very well. Definitely deserves higher than B.
6. Shotgun - now this one can be a monster and yeah, it feels exactly like a shotgun should, unlike in most games. It can easily run 4s and 5s. Now, on its own, I would put it just above the revolver, it does what revolver does, but better and only lacks capability to penetrate carapace and it has some good vs group/horde potential (yeah, the special attack, the thing most ppl seem to not use enough). Now, once we start talking blessings.... Man-stopper is what you want. It gets ridiculous with it, again you want to run it with deadshot, but both special and normal attacks go through at least 5 targets on crits (that is as much as I was willing to push around for tests in meat grinder, and I'm talking gunners/bruisers here, although it does go through ragers/heavy gunners etc as well, mine has lvl 2 blessing, so higher/lower will differ) - and it doens't have to kill em, it will just blast through and do dmg. This means that by putting 2-3 special shells in ADS with deadshot into a poxwalkers group you can put a very significent dent in it (or almost entirely clear it) for the cost of almost no ammo. You could probably think of something nice with flechette (maybe on a zealot?) as well, but I haven't found a good enough one with that.
Generally speaking a well rolled shotgun one taps gunners, puts on the ground and quickly kills most specials/elites and plays quite nice with deadshot.
7. Laspistol - huh, this one is a combat knife among guns ;) High mobility, great crits, very good weak spot dmg. It can easily perform on par with blue infantry lasgun, but yeah, its not a top tier material.
8. Plasma - hmm... I kinda agree with you, kinda don't. I still haven't discovered its playstyle well enough, but I feel its just around the corner - the key seems to be venting the heat by hurting yourself just enough to stay in the right heat threshold (depending on blessings). Maybe a D would be a correct spot for it? It can take out a lot of targets very fast, one taps gunners (the hitbox is kinda weird though, it has to be a high chest shot, if it catches too much of their arms, it will count as arm dmg). I feel like its biggest problem right now is low dmg vs maniacs, meaning it really struggles with mutants/flamers/drag ragers considering how much time and heat it requires to take em out. I guess it performs a role of boss/ogryn/speclist (when hidden behind a lot of trash) killer, a role that can definitely benefit a team, but is secondary in priority to gunner control. Also bolter can do it only slightly worse, while maintaining better capability against a lot of other targets.
I've played enough Darktide to have seen almost all of these weapons finally. I broadly agree and my eyes lit up when even my Psyker or Zealot got their hands on a decent (or really good) Kantrael XII. I've also tried that particular axe quite a bit, from early builds to "just lately". Very active playstyle but it works on a lot. Veteran has the frag to help with huge hordes regardless...
I love the shotgun. It has decent range and damage. There is a different more aggressive playstyle with it, but it is fun.
I think you're severely underestimating the helbore lasguns. With the buffs they're incredibly solid and should at least be in B imo.
In fact, I'd argue the mk2 with +maniac dmg/flak/unarmored perks with Onslaught + Sustained Fire rivals the kantrael mk12 with ranged clear, but also handle armored better. I disagree with ammo efficiency being bad for the mk2, you can kill ranged without charging for 2 ammo on headshots(less ammo used than the mk12), or fully charged bodyshots for 3 ammo(same as mk12). A lot of elites/specialists die with 2 shots if one of the shots are in the head, using 5-6 ammo max. And this is without Volley Fire + Counterfire.
The iron sights still are annoying to use at times but at least you're not blinded by the charging light anymore.
The mk1 and mk3 have worse ammo efficiency with the uncharged and charged shots, though half charged shots can save a bit and are enough for certain breakpoints. I'm not sure if the mk1 has useful breakpoints that the mk2 doesn't so I think the mk2 is better than it until I have a good mk1 to compare with.
The mk3 is a good cross between an mk12 and a plasma gun imo. Trade off elite blowing up power for better ranged clear without the need to vent.
As someone who almost exclusively uses autonatics- I would drop the graia braced autogun 2 tiers because it’s a terrible horde slayer at higher difficulty
I have a 380 with current max damage and +25% damage perks (also have tried crit mods) on malice it can not one shot each horde enemy like you can push the other two to do and even tho it has much more fire rate, the Ammo count is not compareable enough to make this difference. The Graia autoguns are like the starter SMG from L4D2
The columnus are more like the M4 but it does not body pierce hordes it can one shot if you gave 80% damage and 25% VS unarmoured or Infested
The Agripinaa, even on heresy, can still pull one shots AND it pierces so you can get 2 for 1 on hordes and it’s Precise, low spread let’s you actually hipshot counter snipe across map and headshot snipers with some focus that the other BAGs have a way harder time doing. The Agripinaa is much more versatile, hip accurate, and most of all ammo efficient when you compare the #bodies to bullets
TLDR: Braced auto Graia is E at high diff, Columnus D, Agripinaa C. And that’s pushing their 80% and best perks.
bolter and power sword is the meta for people trying to solo damnation. Real veterans know they have to take care of elite, specials and gunners at ranged and let zealots clearing up the crowd.
Combine your tier list with a zealot who have a crusher and a flamethrower and you have a really solid teamplay
I feel like this video assumes you're going to be on a pre-made team where your role is to shoot things in the distance and little else. If, like me, you play with randoms and need to assume a more generalized role, the bolt gun is hard to argue with. It does high damage that is effective against elites when you're firing in single shot mode, but the explosions from each round stagger nearby enemies which makes it good against hordes on full auto.
I actually player most of my games alone because I am often trying to record gameplay, so when I am placing these I am usually thinking from that perspective.
It would be funny if you could energise the powersword while blocking.
Enemy weapon just melts mid swing lol
Damn this should be a feature.
1000% Agree about the power sword. It has gotten me killed in Damnation due to its poor stamina economy and dodge. I love the shovel but it absolutely sucks balls at dealing with Crushers and if you meed to clutch against Crushers with a shovel, well your fucked.
Only thing ilI disagree on is the Agripinna Mk1 Autogun is actually A or S tier. If you get 80% ammo stat thats 341 ammo which is actually enough and it is such a versatile gun its gotten me out of some bad situations because you can hip fire it accurately when you dont have time to Aim Down Sights.
"Plasma gun takes to long to reload" but the 43 minute reload in the bolt gun with the perk is fine...
I agree with everything in this list except for Helbore Lasgun rankings. I found Mk I a lot better than Mk III. The reason being is that its bayonet attacks are faster and actually more precise. Also the damage differnece between two is not that big and both deal damage to carapace armor, so I will take the faster bayonet option.
i wish the revolver had something like a speed loader. its a blast to use but it does have too much drawbacks despite its freight-truck punch and AP potential. i do run it everytime i play malice threat though, double taping them rippers, bouncing from head to heads or scoring lines of pox walkers with a gun the size of your forearm is priceless.
The reload is sexy but it needs to be sped up to be viable. Fatshark improved reloads before in vermintide so I'd hope they do the same.
As long as I have 80% reload and a +% reload perk on it, I dont have an issue. (I use the feat that gives reload speed after an elite kill, and the F reloads for you)
for my style the Graia Braced Autogun is god tier just so good all around (even when taking out a sniper, it's glorious)
Do range blessings stack when your equipping a melee weapon?
For me personally Power Sword easily A tier if youre not blind and your situational awareness isnt lacking. Recons solid B, they perform just fine Heresy+, if youre not scoring consistent headshots then go back to sedition lol. Boltgun easily A, even with shooters you can easily handle it. Both Chain weapons objectively B because the rev time isnt even an issue after animation cancels and the Chainaxe registers 2 hits on 1 light swing (niche? maybe but it works)
Its minute adjustments on most but the chainaxe and recons? Underestimating those big time
I am MARRIED to my Headhunter; I can drop Scabs from as far away as I can see them, and the stopping power is great. Capacity leaves something to be desired
Not surprised at all about the Antax combat axe. It's what i've been using and even without brutal momentum and mediocre perks/blessings, it can effectivly one shot common enemies on damnation and has a bit of cleave aswell. Although i do not understand why this can one shot commons but a rashad with the same moveset and 3 more damage cannot. Is it the cleave stat that somehow makes it do more damage? I tested an antax against a rashad with lower damage and first damage stats on damnation and the rashad needed 2 hits while the antax could do with only 1.
Troll Tier List
Well i cannot agree on power sword and plasma, if u don't have enough skill to use dodge+charge+2 heavy strikes to clean everything on your way then u shouldn't do any kind of tier lists. And plasma, first time i tried it I'm was confused WHY ITS SO BAD, but once i found one with almost god roll 80 charge speed, 80 anti heat and that was perfect! We run 5 dif as team of 2 people zealot + veteran and have like 70% successful missions, with plasma + power sword, and brutal axe + kantrael 12 on zealot. But i can totally agree that kantrael is WAY better than plasma.
Considering how annoying is right now to get the right perks and blessings for all of the weapons, it's really hard to rank any of them.
For the Vet, i cant go past the Kantrael MgXII, the Boltgun and the Power Sword. Everythign else feels really weak on him, including the axe with Brutal Momentum (fits better on Zealot IMO).
I really want to like the Plasma Gun, but i havent found a good with the high damage, resistance and charge time to form a good enough opinion on it yet,
and id REALLY like the Hellbore, especially after the charge tiems got halved, but the iron sights are what kill it for me. Theyre good sights dont get me wrong, but i like to go for the designated targets out in the back, and partly due to my PC setup being on a 55inch 59mhz tv (not a very clear view) it can make that hard sometimes, so having the option of sticking the optic from the Kantrael onto it would bring it up a LOT for me.
Fatshark need to really increase the reload speed on the revolver and increase the ammo capacity on the shotgun to make them viable. They're both super fun weapons and just need a little bit of balancing love to actually be really good.
Also almost every gun in the game needs better sights. Half the guns are totally unusable because you can't see anything you're shooting at when you aim down sights and the sights and recoil completely block your target.
i only disagree with the placement of the hellbore lasun mk3 it is really powerfull and is really usable in damnation with the quick charge up perk the more you use charged shots and the iron sight is a lot better than the otther 2, i personally run it on damnation with the holy shovel, i would place it in C or maybe even B