5 Reasons Your Vinyl Records Don't Sound as Good as They Should | Talking About Records
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- In this quick episode of Talking About Records we share a few simple tips and often overlooked elements of collecting that can have a serious impact on the sound you experience when spinning your records.
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Cleaning your stylus is also as crucial as anything else. A good stylus cleaning brush and specific stylus cleaning solution is all that’s needed. And care to follow the directions to keep from damaging your stylus. So often I hear something off when I put a record on, and realize there’s small fibers and hairs caught on the stylus!
Great tip for sure!
Great video - one thing I would add, which also doesn’t cost much, is make sure you store your vinyl properly. A lot of new vinyl comes with pretty low quality inner sleeves, and I normally upgrade to polyvinyl backed inner sleeves. Also helps with minimising static!
Great tip!
Def i usually replace the inner sleeve with a mofo sleeve and put the album in a poly sleeve..
The turntable is the source component of the system and anything lost or corrupted there will not be retrieved later on. So use a dedicated wall shelf on a solid wall or a turntable stand. Be able to make the turntable perfectly level. Make sure the cartridge overhang and alignment are accurate. Adjust the tonearm pillar height to get the clearest sound. Make sure the speakers are not feeding vibration back into the turntable. The feedback will distort the sound so isolating turntable and speakers from each other will pay off.
great tips! Thanks so much
I put a subwoofer on each side of the couch. The whole soundstage is set up right in front of the couch. Whether it's Bluray, regular tv or turntable, the sound is incredible. The intro to Aldo Nova's "fantasy" sounds like a helicopter is in the room. Al Dimeolas Elegant Gypsy is a good system test record overall
All great tips, one major one would be to calibrate your turntable… Its free and makes a huge difference, setting the tracking force, anti-skate, alighting the stylus, setting tone arm height / balance etc…
Great tip for sure!
@@NTXVinyl by the way, love the videos… just found the channel 👍
@@quiksr20 thanks so much! Lots more to come
I’d also learn to stay away from amps with pre-mix settings! These can help, but should be only a stepping off point! Learn to separate certain sounds by understanding what frequencies work better with whatever band or artist you are listening to. Don’t be afraid to experiment! Great video, as always!
Thanks man! Great tips
Refreshingly solid and unpretentious advice. Lots of good comments, too… Everything Is Music; Always Be Listening…
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very good points you mentioned! Just one thing I missed concerning the stylus: The correct setup of weight and anti skating with the recommended values of your stylus.
Not needed with some "plug 'n play" turntables like the Pro-Ject T1, but really important with many others!
Great point for sure!
I would like to recommend the insignia from Best Buy at 129.00 great features it has a counter weight anti-skate and Bluetooth if you want that the audio technica cartridge is also upgradable! Whole reason I got it plan to upgrade that later on only downside I can find is that it’s not fully automatic but will stop when record ends which is good if you forget to go flip it ! Super happy with it mounted on wall to get rid of vibrations and connected to our surround sound (with extra sub) with an RCA splitter to swap between tv and record player my Skynyrd albums sound fabulous
A carbon fibre brush is essential. Just hold it barely touching across the spinning record surface at 45 rpm for more torque and brushing the brush now and then on a lint free piece of linen. Also, make sure the anti skate is set properly. Raise the tone arm and rest it on the arm lifter or on a cd on the non moving platter. If the arm moves left or right, adjust the anti skate until the arm stays still.
A tip for the advanced audiophile:
When using subwoofer and you have a DSP that you can adjust.
If you get rumble (that is acustic feedback in the air to your tone arm and cartridge assembly self oscillate)
When rumble filter knob is not longer present on amplifiers today.
Then just implement a high pass filter just above where your rumble frequency are for your system. (Preferly use a steep slope like 48db/octave then you can get some Hz more as you can move closer to the rumble frequency)
Problem solved now you can crank it up again. 😉
Some great tips! One minor thing that is important is the Speaker wire, and how it should be a 12 or 14 gauge, and that it has to be the same length going to each speaker, even if you have to coil up any extra.
Interesting! Never considered that much.
Totally agree on all of them (although I know nothing about stylus life, newly sprung vinylist🤪)
I especially agree with the sub (have 3 myself), and speakerplacement. My setup is in my cinema, and speakerplacement is esencial to how things sound. Roomtreatment is also rather important I think. Also the kind of preamp you use, can totally change the way things sound.
I just love how much more energy there is in vinyl, also a vit more separation sometimes, but it is the way kickdrums kick harder, strings vibrate stronger, things just sound so much fuller, that really got me to fall in love with vinyl. 😊
Yes!!!! Love to hear it
Thanks for this great video as I'm getting into serious listening and collecting. My recent listens have been Jeff Becks Wired, Beckola and Flash. Picked up a great copy of Heart's Dreamboat Annie which is fantastic. A recommendation to pick up for yourself and the store is Mick Hayes My claim to Fame. He recorded it at the Muscle Shoals studios. Great blues player and singer with great session players on it in Will McFarland from Bonnie Rait.
Thanks for sharing! Will have to check that Hayes album out!
Beckola, wired, blow by blow are all excellent. Flash is way too 80s overproduced and electronic for my taste, trade that in and get Rough and Ready, it's so 70s funky, it makes Wired look funkless (and wired is funky jazz fusion at its best)
Truth (1968) is also great.
I agree that the most improvment of Sound Quality comes from cleaning the Record. I just bought the Vinyl Cleaner Pro X. It's not cheap but the step up in Sound Quality was just *WOW* more than any upgrade of a phonopreamp or cardtridge.
Awesome to hear! I'm hoping to get a cleaner soon
Great. Pity Mr average can't afford such luxury. I was shocked at something that cleans records cost more than a high end Washing machine for clothes. Other brands available comes to mind.
Fantastic video, and it's always great to keep these tips in mind, sometimes we can overlook them, especially the cleaning! I am in the DFW area, I'll definitely check your website 😀 BTW you look and sound like a very young Dr House, in a good way lol
Awesome great to hear!
Not familiar with Dr House but I’ll take it as the highest compliment regardless 😀
3:00 The most common contaminant on new records is mold release agent. It's a type of grease used so that the records comes off the pressing plates properly, but it needs to be removed before play.
7:50 That really depends on the speakers... I used to have a subwoofer and two monitors, the monitors just NEEDED the sub (and so do bookshelf speakers)... but now I'm using full range floorstanding speakers that are actually full range. They provide plenty of low bass by themselves.
Something I would recommend is: don't take the phono preamp for granted. For most people it's just a built-in preamp inside an integrated amp or just a small box somewhere tucked away in the system, so it's easily overlooked and underestimated.
Better phono preamps provide not only better amplification and more accurate RIAA filtering, but also have capacitive loading settings for MM cartridges, which can change the tonal balance of those cartridges quite significantly depending on the cartridge.
I seriously need to invest in a pre-amp. Thanks for the insights!
@@NTXVinyl You're welcome! 👍
Great video and some good tips
Thanks so much!
All great advice. I know I’m not maximizing the potential of my current table…currently looking at floor speakers and a sub, though my space is largely spoken for. I’m no audiophile, but little and big additions can make a world of difference.
Glad it was helpful! Appreciate you watching
U da man GI. Thank you for the great content.
Thank YOU! Really appreciate you watching
Wow great tips👍 the subwoofer is a great addition as it covers a lower frequency. I have a jvc qla5 table, pioneer sx650, pioneer hpm100s I’m a bit overwhelmed with cartridge choices. I’m playing clean albums with the table properly set up. Do you have any suggestions for cartridge replacement that doesn’t break the bank? I usually play rock and roll most of the time. Thank you.
I might add in the cleaning area, clean the stylus and the turntable mat regularly! I can't tell you how many friends that clean and store records well place them down on a dust filled mat!
kind of in the ballpark of tip 1, but using an antistatic brush before each play is ideal. and once you do clean the records, make sure to change the sleeve. i like the mofi anti static sleeves, or clones of it since theyre hard to find at a decent price now.
Great tips!
Good ideas. I'm 62, always into vinyl and hifi. There used to be a saying, 'garbage in, garbage out' - meaning the input is very important. I would add stylus cleaning, carefully,
Also, there used to be a hifi axiom: 25% of your budget input (turntable/stylus) 25% amp, 50% speakers. I raise the input percentage for myself. Great clips, ta.
Good stuff! Thanks for watching
Another great vid! Thx!
Glad you enjoyed!
Taking the time to set up your turntable/cartridge correctly both for sound quality and to avoid wear on stylys and records.
So so true.
Could not agree more on cleaning. I clean every record that comes in the house before it ever touches my turntable. Like you said, often times new records are as dirty or even more dirty than used records due to factory conditions.
OH and I love having a sub woofer. I have 3/4 Paradigm speakers for my mains. It really helps having a sub so everything coming from those mains is clear and the sub is handling all of the low notes.
I don't have any "high-dollar" vinyls so, what I use to clean them is use a very soft bristle toothbrush with some warm soapy water. It works like a charm.
Whatever works!
Static is the curse of vinyl replay. A wet wash on a, say Project VCE will be the only thing you’ll need to clean and remove static. Keep your stylus clean,, make sure your turntable is level and setup correctly (manufacturers advice)
Thanks for the tip!
Yes the Project VCE definitely thoroughly cleans the record and actually removes static long term. The best thing I have ever bought for cleaning records!
The ultrasonic stuff was way beyond my price range ... the Project is amazing for a fraction of the cost.
Yes the Project is excellent and brilliant at lifting all the gunge from my old 40 year old records that were in my loft for decades. Having a decent Turntable is crucial if you’re serious about vinyl, but I’ve seen some serious rubbish out there but that’s another debate I suppose..
The stylus life part is a good one and very important. I would argue that the 1000 hours is a bit on the high side even for the very best of styli and that 500 hours is a better average across the board.
Keeping the time is also not as hard as one thinks. I have a clicker app on my phone which i add +1 to each side I play. Since most sides are around 20 minutes that means 1500 sides = 500 hours.
Or you can just go the general route of changing every 6 - 12 months.
Going by ear is not a good idea as the wear is very gradual. Once you hear it that has already been a worn stylus for a long while and done unnecessary wear to the grooves. If youre going this route anyway you should at least have a spare stylus ready on hand to always compare with every once in a while. But since not everyone hears wear as well its still a shot in the dark as to how accurate you will be.
Really great insights! Appreciate you watching and adding some excellent tips
That's great idea thanks!
Conical and elliptical styli - about 500 hours. Shibata and microline styli - 800-1000 hours. The more expensive ones typically last longer. One of my cartridges, a Nagaoka MP200, the manufacturer recommends to replace it after 200-300 hours, elliptical stylus. I notice slight degradation at the 300 hour mark roughly, but am happy for about 500-600 hours. Another cartridge, an Audio Technica AT-VM750SH with shibata stylus, has 600 hours on it and still sounds fantastic.
@@ptbfrch Yes its a bit hard to say if the manufacturer is trying to be conservative with their numbers to cover their ass like nagaoka or if they are trying to look impressive and sell more like Ortofon.
If I were you I would stay on the safer side and replace sooner rather than later, like the 300 hours for that Nagaoka. I also paratrace tipped my MP200 once and it only lasted me around 300 hours also.
I will do about 500 - 600 hours for my Microlines.
Cleaning records has been a big deal for me. For many years, I had an anti-static brush to take off the top layer of dust that was visible, but I never went past that. Over the past few months, I've been going through and more thoroughly cleaning my entire collection. I'm in the home stretch, nearly done with my "S" artist records, so I hope to be done in the next couple months. As I go, I'm doing a double-clean on every LP, and putting them all in poly-lined sleeves before they go back into the outer jacket. Thankfully, some of the newer, more premium releases come standard with those, but even with those I'm generally cleaning them after the first play. I always play them first, to make sure they don't have serious flaws from the factory. And yes, the stylus upgrade is a big deal. I'm currently still rocking the original AT LP-120 I bought in 2008, but a couple years ago I finally upgraded to a newer cartridge and stylus, and it made a huge difference. I have a lot more bass response from that upgrade. Now I'm thinking about upgrading to a nicer table, and potentially ditching the shelf system I've used for years, and buying a full receiver.
right on! Love hearing the progression.
Can't recommend Zero Stat enough. I snagged one from around 70 US on eBay which is lower than it has been historically. Either way, it's a godsend. Keep on spinning!
Sopeaking of systems even my neighbor whos a vintage record guy said my new setup that i scored for 45 total is a pretty good system. Its a magnavox system with thr turn table radio 8track and speakers. Just the player in unknown status is worth atleast 120ish. The setup i think in working condition is about 4-500 after looking up sold comps
All good advice. I am aware of all these issues and follow these practices. Can you address the rca Jack connection? Your turntable seems to be a good distance from your other gear. There seems to be a general rule that 1.5 Meters is the longest run one should use. My system (like yours) is probably twice that distance. I can’t find a commercially available phono cord with a ground so I just used a longer set or RCA jacks and made my own ground wire. It works and I don’t actually hear any hum but I can’t help but wonder if this degrades the sound somewhat. What’s your take on this issue and what did you do for the connection on your system? Enjoying your channel. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Keith! The cable I have on my TT is actually the factory cable, and it just barely reaches my amp. Seems fine for my purposes.
This is spot on info folks.
Thanks so much for watching!
Nice summary! Have to agree on speaker placement, and also one's listening position. Lots of info on the web and RUclips for that. Not sure why you have your chairs sideways towards speakers. Makes stereo imaging close to impossible.
Re TT, with more budget TTs (say $100 cartridge.
I'd also say that total sound system ~ 25-200% of vinyl collection value. If you have 200 records, it's time to upgrade that $200 TT attached to a Sonos speaker. With 1100 records of median $20K value, I am at about 150% for sound system. I admit I have some audiophile leanings.
Thanks for the feedback! Appreciate you watching
Also if you get a hum in your speakers it could be a ground in your plug a use of a simple cheap 3 prong adapter plug in the wall socket can help it ground better with or without a ground wire on your turntable
Solid tip!
Cleaning the stylus is really important, I do every 3 or 4th record for my Fluance RT 85. Can hear the difference instantly. And clean the record every time I put it on the table. Thanks for the video friend.
Cleaning the stylus! Great tip I should’ve mentioned.
Do you use just the stylus brush for a dry cleaing or do you combine it with any solution?
@@rafaelmmartinez9170 Dry. Only use fluid once a month or similar and make sure the cart manufacturer approves of that fluid. Otherwise it can melt the glue holding the stylus.
@@rafaelmmartinez9170 Mostly dry but I do add one drop of the solution to the brush every 7-10 days or as needed. Less than $20 for entire kit. Well worth it.
@@sandyfader4649 you only need distilled water and a brush to clean a stylus not harmful chemicals
Having a subwoofer makes a world of a difference! Love my current setup, but I'm currently looking for turntables in the 200-300 dollar range if you have any suggestions? At the moment I'm using an Audio Technica AT-LP60-USB with a Sharp soundbar and subwoofer package. Great video as always, looking forward to the next one
Check Fluance and Pro-Ject. Might be slightly over that range but well worth it. U-Turn is another that I think starts in that range, but they can be hit or miss I've heard
@@NTXVinyl Awesome, I'll check those out!
Rega P1 OR P2 best TT for money , and it’s miles above the pro-ject . I have a Rega P3 with yellow cartridge and the speed control box and it get what hifi 5 starts reviews
Have you ever cleaned with glue applied to just the groves? When you peel it off and all of the particles come off with it.
Have never tried it, but I know it’s a thing. Not sure I could bring myself to cover an lp in wood glue. But have heard it works.
@@NTXVinyl If you heard that wood glue works then you should try it. It's better than grinding dirt deeper into the groves with brushes which also miss a lot of the stuck on grime. It is time consuming and you can't get it on the labels. I'm a skilled painter and use a proper brush. Buy a gallon and learn on some crappy records.
In addition to reasons one and two, not only keep your records clean but keep your stylus clean. Not doing so can increase wear to the record and wear it out the stylus faster, requiring you to replace it more often.
Great tip! I seriously need to do that more often myself
I've found that using a separate preamp, bypassing the typically ultra cheap one in your receiver, makes a huge difference. A Schiit Mani is all you need, around $120.
Thanks for the recommendation, I’m gonna look into that tomorrow!
With that pre-amp, do I still run the table into my Phono input on my amp?
@@NTXVinyl No, you run it through an AUX input
Im not a big fan of the Mani, it lacks a lot of midrange.
I would highly recommend the iFi Zen Phono instead which is more neutral.
@@NTXVinyl Nope, that would double phono / RIAA amplify the signal. Connect the phono stage to anothrr input that is not the Phono.
Old recievers have pretty good phono stages though, not necessarily that an external will be better in that case.
@@leon9021 Thanks!
Suggestions to Help Your Sound: *Achromat by FUNK - MAT.*
It help to reduce feedback, rumble, etc. ... it's pretty expensive for a Mat $100 or more from Germany, but I've experimented, and it's definitely made it possible to play MUCH LOUDER without feedback. IF YOU DON'T Have $4,000 for 1200G Technique, then $100 bucks can raise the quality of the Turntable you own now.
Great tip!
The likelihood that new records are going to have fingerprints or that dust is "Flying around" in the factories in which they are pressed is extremely unlikely.
Vinyl pressing factories are, like those that produce semiconductor devices, kept scrupulously clean, far more so than an operating theatre in fact.
However, although long since eradicated, there was a time several decades ago when a lot of pressings reaching the shops contained an unacceptable amount of mould-release residue which did need to be cleaned off.
From what I have read mold residue is a myth. The release mold compound is part of the vinyl mixture and there is no way to remove it.
I must say, until recently all the brand new LPs I bought were absolutely clean, but lately I got some brand new, sealed records that were full of what looked like paper flakes
Don’t forgot static! A problem mat, cleaning solution, and a carbon fiber or other brush designed to reduce static can make all the difference. Finally, a Zerostat static remover, if used correctly, can eradicate most all static from your album. I find static tends to produces pops and clicks on even brand new clean records that should play with out such noises!
I've been 'spinning' records since the 1960's, from my suitcase 78 player to my current AT-LP120XUSB. Your five points were always my concern, well not with that old kiddie suitcase player. I just don't like the plastic plinth which is used today; it is quite probably the worst material to use. It resonates every minor tap or vibration. Is there an effective way to dampen it?
Not that I’m aware of
At the very least I'd recommend a MoFi brush & I also made my own version of the Vinyl Vac (look it up) for basically nothing because I already had a shop vac & some tubing. But use that brush. It's only $20
Good call!
I have purchased at least two new records that had bad skips that completely disappeared after a good clean. I'm guessing the issue was artifacts left stuck in the grooves from the cutting process.
@R-9A , that's a silly take. The most likely culprit is high demand. High demand and pressure to turn around LPs as fast as possible will inevitably lead to QC that leaves something to be desired. Especially coupled with the sheer number of records being manufactured. The majority of people getting into Vinyl are not treating it as a novelty and putting their expensive new Vinyl (not to mention the cost of the rest of the gear and the effort involved) into the closet. Expecting new LPs to be completely clean and void of any defects is also unreasonable. A good cleaning for ANY record, old or new, is essential.
An important discussion which I think record buyers should have, and rarely have, concerns our expectations from the medium. As the proud owner of hundreds of LPs pressed between 1950 and 1965, I have often had moments where I have wondered whether what I am hearing is some kind of inadequacy, either in the my playback system or in the record itself. Records were mastered and manufactured to wildly differing standards over the years, so there is no one ‘result’ you can expect when you play one. The trick is to decide what you find acceptable and unacceptable. I have finally come to a place where I no longer ‘blame’ my hifi for let downs on vinyl; I have tried enough combinations of player/cartridge that I am satisfied that what I am hearing is what’s on the record. I can tolerate a lot, (provided a record is clean - how one achieves cleanliness is another matter). I draw the line at inner groove distortion, though, which, since I started using a vintage deck, I hear much less of.
any tips on how to get rid of igd ?
@@Paul58069 The common line of thought is that you set up the cartridge/position/overhang to the optimal. There are loads of videos on how to do it. For my part, it has never worked for me - I just can’t do it and I would welcome any expert to come to my house and set up my decks. Some decks seem to produce more distortion than others; until recently I was using straight tone arms and have swapped over to an s- shaped on a 1978 Sony deck. The difference is total. So maybe the technology itself is the answer. I will say though, that I messed around a good deal with the anti skate, making sure that is not pulling away the pick up in the direction of the outer groove. I am certain that makes a contribution. Two more things: certain pick ups seem to track more accurately - the Ortofon red/blue do a very good job. Until I got my Sony, I never liked them; now I understand the appeal. The last thing is mono. If you play mono records, DO get a dedicated mono pick up (audiotechnica do a good one) and you will be amazed at the difference in sound- plus, the distortion will instantly disappear.
Having worked in a record packing old 2nd world war shed as a warehouseman I saw the way records were packed then. Old ladies with fingerless gloves & scarves with coats because of no heating putting records in sleeves. No real decent conditions. This was the 80s though. More high tech now hopefully. One of my worst jobs in the 80s. Today I treasure my rega 3 & every record like its gold.
Thanks for watching Dave!
Hi, good video. I´m not a pro, but i think the cheapest, most effective way to clean your records is to buy the usuall Knosti cleaning machine for 50-60$. After their fluid is gone , you make your own for cheap. Put them in a protected sleeve and you don`t have to worry for years. Also i think that if you have a good stylus and you take care of him (clean him, play only clean records) he lasts much longer than 1000 hours and still sounds good. Greetings
Thanks for the tips!
awesome subbed
thanks so much!
If you are able to hear that your stylus is worn then it has been due to replacement for while already..
You CAN use a clicker counter just click it each time you play a side of a LP to count them.
(Approximate a side is in average 20min long. Then take the count and devide by 3 and get number of hours you have used the stylus. Pretty easy to keep track of hours used if you want to do it.)
Then there is a big discussion on how many hours the stylus should last with different numbers all over the place.
But profile matters when fine line or shibata has bigger contact area than elliptical or conical has. Therefore they last longer.
Another factor is that dirty records wear stylus more than cleaner records does. So another benefit to cleaning records.
So I will not be giving a number of hours that you need to research by yourself. When so many factors have a impact.
Happy listening!
Good tips! Thanks so much for the insight
A simple tip that helped me was to make sure my cartridge headshell screws were snug. I was surprised that I got nearly two full turns of the screws. 😱
Nice! Never would have thought of that
Don't get me wrong, i love vinyl and buy it regularly, but cds sound amazing too, they are certainly up there with vinyl.
Haven't owned a CD player (other than in my car) or purchased a CD in probably 15 years or so. Just not for me.
They do sound great! I grew up with vinyl and still have a good collection. Today I mostly buy CD's as they are more affordable than overpriced LP's. Also, a set open baffle speakers will improve your listening pleasure. I have 2 basic d.i.y. sets and listen to nothing else.
Every format has its pros on cons. There is a ton of stuff that sounds better or is better suited to CD/High res. digital, while some stuff (often older) has that certain uniqueness inherent to vinyl. However, i think the appeal of Vinyl goes beyond the sound quality. If it was pure SQ we were after, i'm not sure CD/Digital could be beaten from a purely technical perspective. I own and listen to all three formats and enjoy each equally for what they offer. I find most new pressings to be pointless from a sound quality perspective. Not to mention the price of Vinyl is absurd atm.
I have vinyl and recently rediscovered CDs. Recording quality is important but I noticed CD sounds better than streaming. A good recording sounds best on Vinyl although good CDs are amazing too. So I guess steaming is just for convenience and discovery.
Think it depends what music you listen to. I collect old soul & reggae and CD doesn't sound anywhere near as emotional as vinyl. That and the value side of things for collecting makes vinyl the far better bet. You won't get many ( if any ) CDs worth what an original pressing is valued at.
The downside is storing the stuff.
Isolating vibration especially with the turntable can help
One HUGE thing is don't overlook used/vintage stuff. I have $1k into my system, and I have Marantz Imperial 9 speakers (3 tweeters, 4 midrange, 2 woofer each), Pioneer SX-939, and a Tecnics Direct Drive Table with an Audio Technica cart.
Speaker placement for sure affects your whole sound , not just from vinyl . From cartridge to speaker , 95% of the voltage amplification is by the phono preamp and it's quality and settings have a major influence on what you hear . Detail , richness , sound stage , and especially Dynamics . It's great to have the bass of a subwoofer , but the Impact of a better phono pre rocks , IMO .
Thanks for the insights!
Ultrasonic cleaner is the best thing you can invest in. Got mine for under $300 on Amazon and it cleans 7 at a time. Nothing else works as good. I have had LPs I though were ruined and many of them played so clean afterwards it was shocking. One of the best parts is after cleaning with the Ultrasonic there is no more dust build up on the stylist ever.
I just got one! Literally just tried it today for the first time. Really digging it
I worked out how to completely improve mine in around 1989 - replace the things with cd’s!
Ouch
@@NTXVinyl Just p.ssed off because some of them might have been worth a bit now =(
Thank you for your input on vinyl care and it’s reproduction. However, I have to strongly disagree with your recommendation to use devices using a fluid cleaner and a cloth or absorbent brush, the infamous Discwasher being the best known. When you apply fluid to a soiled LP, you make mud - adobe actually - that migrates to the bottom of the grooves and quickly starts to dry. No way any microfiber cloth or brush is capable of reaching the bottom of the groove and completely absorbing that mud before it dries and becomes permanent. Meaning any noise becomes permanent. A vacuum cleaning machine (VPI, Project, Nitty Gritty) is the only effective way to remove dirty fluid from your record’s grooves. In lieu of that, a DRY, carbon fiber brush, such as by Audioquest, used without any fluid whatsoever, can provide a helpful solution without causing permanent harm to the vinyl. Decades of experience (and a microscope) confirm this.
I dunno. I have a classic Discwasher brush with the fibers that are in a forward direction. When I get a "new to me" record (whether pre-owned or sealed), I always do a dry pass with the brush to loosen up particles. Sometimes that's enough, but if I see that the record has finger prints and stains, I use some drops of Audio Technica cleaning fluid on the brush for a quick wet clean. You just have to do it as per instructions: rotate the brush after three rotations with the wet part of the brush. It picks up a lot of crap, and the stylus doesn't pick up any residue when playing. The record sounds much better after this. Eventually, I hope to get a Degritter, but until then this works for me.
I agree, I own some very rare records and use a high quality carbon fiber brush
Agree entirely, though at minimum, at least use a Spin Clean - I have never used one, though for someone needing something lower cost, it likely is of help. That said, a KAB EV-1 is what you really want to use that is relatively low priced at $149. I bought mine over 25 years ago when I believe it actually cost more, and I would *never* be without it or some other wet vacuum for records. If someone is buying records with any degree of regularity and does not have money for this, do yourself a huge favor - stop buying records for a while and put any money your would have spent on more records towards buying this cleaner. It has been invaluable for me.
@@martinmelucci4383 Absolutely. I’ve seen to many records from the 60’s and 70’s rendered permanently noisy thanks to the Discwasher. But that’s all we had then (except for the Watts Dust Bug).
While I'm not convinced that vinyl is better from a scientific analysis, if judging strictly by turntables I will "testify" that there is a difference. However, the biggest difference I noticed was between traditional turntables and a linear tracking turn table. (I still have a Pioneer PL-800.) In the 80s when I bought that turntable, I immediately noticed how much better my LPs sounded with it than one or two other high-end turntables I had before.
Interesting!
All true, but a sub? Maybe, it depends on the main speakers but a phono pre amp can make a huge difference and there are many in the $100-200.00 range and I would go that way rather than a sub, unless the speakers have no bass at all, if on a tight budget. The improvements on clarity, separation, stage and details are huge, IMHO.
I am also guilty of not cleaning new records most of the times.
Guilty as well. I've seriously gotta get a pre-amp. Everyone is telling me it's a game changer
#6:
Re-purchase records that do not seem to move you; that sound lifeless.
Most pressings have between poor to decent sound quality. Few have excellent sound quality. Very few have outstanding sound quality.
For some records, the entire run has none with even excellent sound quality. For example: Meatloaf's Bat Out Of Hell. Not a single pressing sounds great. The studio / record company simply did a lousy job.
There are stamper codes on records, in the shiny area at the end of the last song. Every album title has unique stamper codes, and they differ for each side. With trial and error, you can learn which stamper codes always sound sub-par, and which stamper codes typically sound great. But even with the right stamper code, it is still hit or miss. With the wrong stamper code, it is only miss or miss.
For example, The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour, only the German pressings have a shot at outstanding sound quality (I do not have the stamper code handy). A great sounding German pressing will win over any other pressing of Magical Mystery Tour. This is true only for that album. Other Beatles' titles have their own pressing locations (stamper codes) for the best sounding pressings.
And even if you land a great sounding pressing, it will likely be for only one of the two sides. It is rare to land a pressing with outstanding sound quality on both sides.
If you are determined to have outstanding sound quality on both sides, you will have to keep re-purchasing that album until you land one for side "A" and one for side "B" (or get lucky with one that sounds great for both sides).
Note that re-mastered albums never (from my experience) have better sound quality than the right original releases (or perhaps a greatest hits release). The studios do too much tinkering with the mixing and mastering on re-masters. Rather than hearing only the band, you end up also hearing the "enhancements" introduced at the studio. I have never found a re-master that I liked, and gave up on them several years ago.
#7:
Isolate your turntable from vibrations. This can be a challenge.
I was getting feedback when I turned up the volume most of the way. At low to moderate volumes, I heard no feedback (but it was there -- I just thought that I did not hear it).
I purchased Aurios Pro Media Isolation Bearings (you put them under the feet of your turntable). They were not cheap. But they made an incredible improvement.
Not only can I turn the volume up and never get feedback... listening at lower volume levels has improved significantly. Everything is more focused.
Ideally, try to find a location that is away from low frequency vibrations. Granted, it is not easy to do. You have to work with the space that you have, and you might not have a vibration free area. In that case, bearings or a shelf made for turntables might be your only option.
#8
Dial in every vector of your turntable / tonearm / cartridge, including that your turntable is level.
Depending on what you purchased, not all settings will be adjustable. But adjust what you can. Just make sure that you know what you are doing, or know someone that knows how to tune everything correctly.
This is a time consuming process, even for seasoned turntable gurus. And you need turntable tools to perform some of the adjustments accurately.
If the store or manufacturer put everything together, they likely did an average job at best (unless you purchased from a store where they have a turntable guru and that person devoted time to your turntable. Expect to pay for that time, which will be 45 minutes+.
After you get every vector professionally dialed in, you will be amazed at how much better your records sound (well, crappy sounding records will still sound crappy).
Imagine if new cars were delivered with the wheels not aligned with precision. Your car might vibrate a bit, or pull to one side, or not roll effortlessly. Well, that is what a misaligned stylus is like -- it is rubbing up against the groove like a car rubbing up against the curb. You don't want that. You want your stylus to make love to the groove.
The above three items are neither easy to accomplish nor doable on a low budget. But if you have the means to accomplish the above, then your ears will thank you.
solid insights!
The individual pressing information and notes about each album release and the matrix numbers and other simples that Indicate pressing plant, original, 2nd, 3rd pressing etc. can all be found on the Discogs website and database. Lots of info about which pressings are best as to sound quality etc. can be found there and in numerous forums etc. while I agree that when and where an album was pressed, who mastered it, and other info all have bearing in its quality, I don’t think it’s fair to generalize that nearly all but the most specific are worth listening to or of a decent quality is untrue for all but the most discerning audiophile with the most sophisticated gear. I find differences between releases and pressing bit most are decent enough to enjoy it the vinyl resurgence wouldn’t be growing and no one would have listened to and collected them in the 1st place! Before the internet - much of this info was virtually unobtainable.
A prober table setup, quality cartridge and stylus, correct alignment and tracking force are all things that definitely are crucial to listening quality. With a little RUclips viewing, and a few inexpensive accessories, anyone can learn these skills!
@@borgetc Who authenticates the ratings on Discogs?
In other words, is it (#1) the person that runs the site, leaving everyone to the mercy of his taste?
Or is it (#2) a vote by all subscribers, leaving the result at whichever stamper got the most votes?
If it is #1, that could be great or it could be a problem. It all depends on whether or not your ears agree with his ears.
If it is #2, that could be problematic, because for some records, there can be numerous stampers, yet only 1 of them has outstanding sound quality. And if that stamper is owned by only a small percentage of the subscribers, then most of the votes will be for other stampers.
In order to make an informed decision on which stampers have the best sound quality, the person making the judgement has to be able to demo the various stampers.
And it gets more complicated...
Even the stampers that do sound the best, do not do so for their entire run. So you could have the right stamper and still be missing out.
How does Discogs determine their findings? What is their formula?
"...I don’t think it’s fair to generalize that nearly all but the most specific are worth listening to or of a decent quality is untrue for all but the most discerning audiophile with the most sophisticated gear."
Better source material makes any and every stereo sound better.
As to it being worth listening to:
I listen to album after album, where I know that better sounding pressings exist. I still listen to them, and I still enjoy them. But on a scale of 1 to 10, I lean towards 6 or better. Anything less just does not do it for me. Same for digital files.
If a song will have mediocre sound quality, I might as well listen to a digital copy. Why be inconvenienced with the extra effort of vinyl, if digital is just as good and very convenient?
"...are decent enough to enjoy it the vinyl resurgence wouldn’t be growing and no one would have listened to and collected them in the 1st place!"
Few people seek out sound quality. There are other reasons for vinyl's resurgence. It is not sound quality, because nearly all new pressings have sub-par sound quality.
Has that changed? I don't know, because I gave up wasting $$ on new vinyl nearly 10 years ago.
"With a little RUclips viewing, and a few inexpensive accessories, anyone can learn these skills!"
I have learned a lot from watching youtube videos on this topic, including that lots of videos get things wrong, and leave things out, or tell people that they don't have to worry about this or that, etc.
I have found only 3 or 4 videos that properly cover everything. One of them was by Michael Fremer. I do not have the link. He has many such postings. But I recall watching one where he is detailed.
If I were to win the lottery, I would be making endless purchases from eBay and elsewhere, trying to find better sounding pressings of what I already own. Alas, my unemployed wallet has run dry.
@Perhaps - Discogs is just a database and an online marketplace. It has over 15 million individual separate releases catalogued along with their specific information. As to which of those releases are best - that’s up to consumers and collectors to determine from the vast amount of information, reviews, sales data, and other info that is widely available. And it will certainly always be somewhat subjective. That said, some records were simply recorded and mastered better than others, and while the individual pressing can have an impact on quality, it doesn’t mean that all but the best are “lifeless”
or unlistenable in my opinion. I’ve heard dozens of copies of Steely Dan Aja for example, from different releases, pressing plants, etc. and there’s a reason why it’s a “test” record for lots of audiophiles. Are there “bad” pressings out there - I’m sure there are. But I doubt it’s anything like the majority of the 148 different vinyl releases catalogued on Discogs.
I don’t want those new to vinyl thing every lp involves a huge t for the only listenable version - that’s simply not true.
@@borgetc '...it doesn’t mean that all but the best are “lifeless"'
Are you implying that I wrote that?
I am asking because you put quotes around 'lifeless', which was an adjective that I used, but I never used it in the sentence that you did.
Since few people seek out the best sound quality, I suspect that most of the data collected on Discogs will not be aimed at what I am seeking.
Also, I have read and seen videos of people praising some pressings that were not good.
Some pressings have exaggerated bass. A lot of people like exaggerated bass. So they give such pressings a thumb's up.
Some people find pressings made with a vinyl formulation that lowers surface noise. It also ruins that sound quality. But some people like the low surface noise, and give the pressing a thumb's up.
I am seeking low surface noise, but not at the expense of the overall sound quality.
There is simply too much subjectivity with input from far too many people with far too many ideas of how the pressings should sound.
I prefer to find an individual whose ears I trust. When they report on a great sounding pressing, then I am confident that it is.
Stylus Facts:1. The average groove is 800m long (that is per side of course)
2. So if Playing an album both sides usually takes an hour, then your stylus travels at 1.6kph
3. The weight exerted on the tip is 1 -2 Tonnes per sq. cm. So dust makes it a gravel road to plough through eroding the tip. A worn stylus or needle permanently damages your records.
4. It’s recommended to change your stylus every 500 hours (500 albums) I play 10 albums a week, so I replace my stylus every 52 weeks on my birthday.
Ultrasonic cleaner $200. Cant get cleaner. 2 L warm water, 6 drops of Dawn and 1/2 cup of isopropyl. Dry with a clean microfibre cloth. Clean your stylus regularly with bluetac or a mrclean magic eraser and use an antistatic gun or fluid. Entry level technics tables of the 80's beat $1000 units today on w&f.
I literally just bought it! Trying it out this week. Can't wait.
I realize that with records I bought brand new straight out of the packaging. When I hear a click, I say to myself - " What"!! That's impossible!! I only just bought this!! But it's usually just something on it that just needs removing. I have a project turntable but I don't get enough time to play my records thousands of times to change my needle, but I do change it after at least 8-9 months. I have so many records I don't get time to play them.
if you dont play records often, why do you still change the stylus that often? ive had my pro-ject for about a year now i dont feel i need to change the cartridge.. as its $150 and sounds fine.
Which subwoofer do you use? Are there any you’d recommend?
I have a 12” Klipsch. Nothing special but it does the trick.
Tracking force can have a huge effect on your sound.
Absolutely.
Also using a mono cartridge for mono records
Are you the lou silvano from the old time capsule show in NY?
I have a Fluance RT85 with Ortofon Blue, Cambridge Audio AX35, Elac unifi 52s with Elac S10.2 sub. I’m thinking I should upgrade the Cambridge Audio amp. Thoughts?
*The BEST WAY to Dust off your Record before Play:* (more effort means better results.)
.... instead of a 'Record Brush' dusting I suggest a little more effort to get GREAT SOUND, Save your Record Collection and Save your 'Cartridge and Needles.
.... RINSE your records with a KNOTI Disco Antistat with Distilled water & Goat Hair bristles. Several rotations both directions, and then place on a Satin Sheet and Dry till water is gone. *This is not a cleaning!*
.... YES IT IS MORE EFFORT, but it's about 2 minutes of work and drying.
.... Your records just need a TOUCH UP and not a full cleaning if you've already cleaned them.
I find new vinyl is dirtier than most nice used stuff I buy. I good clean every play and I almost never have surface noise.
I woul also mention using an antistatic gun or brush.
Great tip! Use mine often
Cleaning is great advice. Advising folks to spend money on equipment upgrades versus maximizing what they own is just another way to make people spend more money. How does this help people? Why not advise people how to make best improvements with what they own first? Speaker placement is the easiest and biggest effect on sound for free. Buying new equipment doesn't make such a big difference if the speaker placement still sounds like crap.
I agree. Tried to list a couple tangible things that don't take more investment. Cleaning, and speaker placement.
I don't know of any turntables with any quality at all for $150-$200,. 400-$500 is more realistic for a decent entry level table.
I hear you. "Quality" obviously quite subjective - but I think may main point was to just get out of the sub-$100 suitcase model at the very least. Thanks for the comment!
Make sure your turntable is leveled right to left and back to fromt
that's a great tip! Never would have thought to mention it
Do you mean all of those scratches, and finger prints, and remnants of peanut butter sandwiches all over my vinyl records? I think you might be right, and for more reasons than you think.
Compact discs always survive all of that much better.
Peanut butter! 😬🤣
An equalizer is essential
Your comments about stylus wear is way off. Many will last much longer. Keeping them clean is paramount. And if the stylus is removable,, get a magnifier of some kind that allows you to see the tip clearly. It's astonishing how much goo and fuzz will stick to the diamond. Sure, they wear out. But they usually wear more when tracking and anti-skate are out of spec or if they are never properly cleaned. Also, adding a sub is absolutely a great suggestion.There is way more low frequency music and sound down below 35hz than most people ever knew. It's not about adding more bass, but getting what is in the recording fully realized. Most dynamic speakers, whether bookshelf, tower or satellite will never, ever be able to produce a flat 30Hz even if their specs show as such. A full range speaker powered by a 200 watt power amp simply wouldn't have enough juice to lay down the continuous energy to play strong low notes. After adding a sub or 2 and only rolling up it into the lowest possible frequencies reveals unbelievable results, not only on vinyl but everything. I even hears stuff on 78RPM records, like subway trains, large trucks outside of the music venue etc, that the recording engineers probably missed because their mastering equipment didn't pick it up.
Great tips and insights! Really appreciate it. I'm learning so damn much from a lot of people, this is a great example of that.
You gotta spend quite a bit to get the most out of vinyl much like I had to with digital. Idk why ya'll are suprised when your setups are less than 600 bucks. Even a 1000 isnt enough. Both digital and Vinyl. Digital makes it accessible cause even on a cheap setup you can listen at a comfortable level.
I got a table with a longer tonearm than your standard table and a highly compatible cartridge. Load cap also matters here but anyways I hardly ever get distortion near the end of the groove now. Completely gone.
You gotta pay to play. It costs me about 4000 bucks. My lp setup costs me 3000
Or it could be lousy records , I have 1000s of lps alot of them early uk pressings, makes sense I'm in the UK. I buy 3 or 4 records a month I've got a few early prog records which are in excellent condition, every now and then I'll buy a new /remastered copy, and more often than not the earlier pressings sound better than its new counter part . I use a technics sl1200 G and nagaoka mp200 and ortofon 2m bronze so all mid range stuff . The older records especially early 80s pressings sound the best because at the time they were going head to head with the new cds so they had to be good and they were. Alot of the problem is too many reissue companies have jumped on the bandwagon to satisfy demand and quality control goes out of the window IMO. Not enough pressing plants like there used to be I think that's part of the problem 😕.
Absolutely. Pressings differ greatly. Just did a video on that topic recently. Thanks for watching!
@@NTXVinyl Although I'm here in England and US and UK music is different regarding singers and groups, I find you are very knowledgeable and you do a good show. Keep up the good work 👏.
@@peterstudley1804 thanks so much Peter! I'm making this stuff as I go...and have been overwhelmed by the response. Appreciate your feedback!
Your take on records versus CDs is an interesting one. Why would records try to compete with CDs for quality? After all, it’s the same companies that were putting out both, and it’s generally agreed that the music industry were hell bent on killing vinyl in the late 80s. I find a lot of 80s pressings are pretty awful! 🤔
@@elvisonwax hi jim , I wasn't comparing CDs to vinyl , I spoke about how some new pressings don't sound that good, compared to LPS = Long Players = 12 inch records I've bought in the 1980s , most of us know cds sound better but different than vinyl, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.
I find that modern vinyl compared to stuff from the 70's and 80's sounds dull and flat. My old vinyl still sparkles, most modern stuff doesn't. Not many records these days say 'Mastered for vinyl by...' on the sleeve. I alternate between an Ortofon Blue and an Audio Technica VM540ML.
Interesting. Have plenty of new LPs that sounds fantastic right alongside older vintage pressings
Well with the 1000 hrs thing u do know if you play records say an hr or ten or an hundred a week so not that hard to work out 👍
Math is hard
Haha yeah brother it is.
Five reasons: 1) They are vinyl, 2) They are vinyl, 3) They are vinyl, 4) They are vinyl, and 5) They are vinyl.
AMEN 🙏🏻
Very lazy on the cleaning part. Using a preamp was a major upgrade.
Guys can you please fill in my vinyl questionaire for my market research coursework 🙏
Where is it? Link?
Vinyl is a very tricky playback method. It requires almost too much constant care and attention. It is more of an audiophile or hipster fetish for sound reproduction. It is a very expensive hobby if one wants to do it right. Once the record is easily damaged the sound will always have a flaw that for some digital audiophiles who appreciate consistent perfect playback is a fatal flaw.
A personal choice for sure. Vinyl connects me to the music more. Yes it takes effort, and care, and patience, and it’s not cheap. Just like a lot of things in life that are valuable to me personally.
but a cheap USB microscope and visually inspect your stylus, once a year?
nice tip!
first reason is the quality of the new records. not just sound quality but warpage inclusions ripples plastic contamination nasty paper sleeves with mo antistatic inner sleeve. I 30% of the records I buy are crap. It gives me more headache than enjoyment.
That sucks to hear. Hopefully QC improves over time at the plants
Agree with this totally. So much new vinyl is warped and/or has other QC issues. An alarming percentage of what I was buying new. And it has only gotten worse in the last few years. Given the price of vinyl, I've begun migrating more to CDs and FLAC files.
They wear gloves when touching records at the record factory
Ideally yes.
I have to disagree about using micro-fibre cloths and velvet pads. They just move the dirt and grime around the record. You must own a record cleaning machine. Records do indeed sound better than CD's and can be as quiet. but you can only help a record sound this good through the use of certain chemicals. The catch is they must be removed through suction, however that very act itself cleans it in a way nothing else can. You can buy a Nitty Gritty manual model on ebay for about $255 or a used model for about $150. This is not a lot to pay to preserve your valuable collection of records. If you have a lot of records, say 5,000 , spending a thousand dollars on a turntable, arm, and cartridge is nothing compared to the price of all your records. If you are happy with your current amplifier and speakers no need to change but if you think a better amp and speakers will be more rewarding you can change the amp first when you have the money to upgrade.
Well sure. I don't disagree. But what I'm saying is a nice clothe and solution will be A LOT better than doing nothing at all, which is what plenty of people currently do. At least it will get rid of the surface level debris visible to the eye.
I don't own a cleaning machine. Am likely getting one soon and will check that model out! Thanks so much for the feedback and for watching
If someone claims that vinyl is the best sounding audio format he or she might have a super expensive turntable and cartridge. Like that guy Michael Fremer who is a advocates of vinyl. He always claims that vinyl sounds the best. Because look at his gear my god!
Yeah. It's jaw dropping looking at some of the gear folks have. One can dream!
My thirty-year-old rack system Technics turntables sounded better than my CDs with only the addition of a $40 Audio-Technica EP 311 cartridge. But that sent me down the rabbit hole! Purchased 1998 Technics sl-1200 MK5, ortofon 2m black cartridge mounted in sumiko headshell and project tube box s phono preamp with audioquest interconnects. Also trying Audio-Technica at440mlb cartridge and ortofon om-40 with Fritz Geiger 70 stylus. Record cleaning fluids are all over the place and very inconsistent. I clean hundreds of albums with disc doctor Miracle record cleaner and then they changed the formula and added a small amount of alcohol to remove mold release compound residue. That's when I knew they were full of crap. Mold release compound is part of the vinyl mixture and cannot be removed. And even if it could that means I have wasted all of that money and time cleaning 500 with their previous formula. I have recently purchased tergitol 15 S 3 and 15 S9 to make my own record cleaning fluid. I have enough to probably make around 55 gal! That is the smallest amount I could find. I'm beginning to think that using a brush with Dawn dish detergent and distilled water might be the best way to clean vinyl. Rinse completely is very important! I use a clean record brush while rinsing so it will force the water into the groove and break surface tension. I have a okki nokki record vacuum machine and I can't say that I am impressed. Especially since they said don't run it more than three or four rotations as it may damage the vinyl!
There are good recordings and bad reordings. Cd or vinyl has nothing to do with it. And dont forget that all recording until the 90s were in tapes. That's why old cds are AAD
Agree that there are of course good/bad recordings. But the format can certainly have something to do with it as well.
ocd
You dont have to spend a fortune to achieve a good sounding audio gears.
I agree!
Clean all vinyl.
Even new.
Google methods.
Preach!
Reason number one : BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT CDs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
….and thank god. Ditched those shiny plastic discs years ago for the real thing. ✌🏻
@@NTXVinyl The real thing.....is whatever floats your boat dude ! Don't fall prey of marketing.
@@oldestpunkinargentina7766 agreed. I have nothing against CDs, they’re just not for me.
I promise in 1993 when I started collecting records they weren’t being marketed, in fact they were barely even being made
@@NTXVinyl Matter of fact I purchased a lot of Lps in the 90s, because they were practically being given away. I'm not anti-vinyl, and have TTs for 40 years, only I like CDs so much better. I own 700 CDs and only 150 lps currently. Peace bro ! We're in the same hobby; I was just teasing you fellas.
Unload half a bottle of wood glue to clean your records. About the most ridiculous method to date.
yeah.....I'm with ya. Don't think I'll ever be trying that method honestly.
Cds sounds best. For me digital sounds a lot better than vinyl records period. I have a project turntable with ortofon blue cartridge thats a decent set up but cds sounds a lot better than the vinyl and turntable.
Everyone's ears are different. I have zero interest in CDs, haven't owned a player in 15+ years. All vinyl for me. :)
95% of my vinyl album sound better than their CD counterpart and that is not just my opinion, I use my grandkids young and nonjudgmental ears to verify. Using Technics sl-1200 MK5 1998 and ortofon 2m black mounted in sumiko headshell and run through project tube box s phono preamp and Onkyo CD player. I can have the Same album and CD playing at the same time and switch from one to the other with my remote without the music stopping and you can hear the immediate difference. I purchase vinyl and CDs because I enjoy both but vinyl is usually the winner in sound quality but most of my CDs sound really good because I bought them before the loudness Wars started and loss of dynamic range was achieved.
Stop Saying "SO"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So