My first setup I had when I was 13 about 2001 was my dads old technics suv3 amp, b&w dm110 speakers, denon dcd485 CD player, nad 5120 turntable, my grandads old Sony cassette player and my dad's old teleton tuner. Great and very informative video as usual
Agreed. And you get the pleasure of saving a pile of cash by Not trying to get an = sound from brand new speakers. As for vintage power amps, I'd take a s/h Krell 'KSA 50' (50 watts per ch' with two 1'kva (1000'watts each) huge fat, tall & heavy transformers inside, they can drive anything, even down to 2'ohm bass dips in some fill-range e/stats & can do inefficient boxes with ease, wattage is a misleading marketing tool (without a peak inside or knowing more related output spec's) & less important than maximum 'loud cruising' current delivery spec, i.m.o. P.S. i know next to nothing about class D amps, just their switching power supplies, to a degree.
One other difference in the KEF B200 large magnet woofer is the surround is made of PVC whereas the smaller magnet B200 is neoprene. Visually that's only way to tell them apart when mounted. The large magnet B200 is less common; the smaller magnet version being the one many manufactures used most often. That Monitor Audio used the more expensive B200 on their MA4 tells you just how committed to excellence they were back then. Great discussion of vintage speakers and their differences over the years.
Very interesting breakdown on tweetersin relation to the woofers. You broke ground where other stereo reviewers have not gone. I'm a stereo/audio enthusiast from the 1960s, and caught the bug when my dad vigorously sampled various speakers to match with his system. I love the way you broke(no pun intended) it down in explanation! Thirty-five years ago I purchased a pair of vintage 2way Advents (1970s) that sat lonely in a dusty corner at thrift store. The pair cost $35USD. Large speakers, and, wow! They literally blew me away! But, I did have to replace the woofers shortly after, as they proved rotted from having been in someone's storage. They have been joyously used ever since.
The Polk LS series are great sounding vintage speakers. Nicely balanced, very detailed, yet buttery smooth. Polk accomplished this by using a trilaminate dome made of polyamide, aluminum, and stainless steel. This layered construction produces the smooth response of a soft-dome tweeter along with the clarity and precision of a metal dome. I can't even listen to music on my Polk RTi A9s, but the LS 70s sound great with all music. These do need a decent amp to shine though, even at 90dB sensitivity, they dip to 3 ohms. With a good amp they will stay tight and clean sounding right up to about 300 watts. If driven by a cheap mass market receiver you probably won't think they are nothing special and store them in the closet for 10 years like I did. I was blown away when I hooked them up to my JC1 mono blocks. They don't need that much of an amp, but it doesn't hurt if you want to really turn it up and feel the music. The LS 70s were $1200 in 1992. They are real gems if you can find a pair. I paid $80 for mine and they are in great shape.
Thanks for a clear and useful guide to speakers, Kelvin! When I was getting into hi-fi in the late 70s I did a lot of research to try and make my limited funds go further. One thing I remember is that there were generally said to be three schools of thought on speaker design, and they broke down geographically. American speakers tended to be punchy and bassy, British & European speakers had a warmer and more laid-back sound, while Japanese speakers were airy and bright. Later on, Japan Inc. addressed this by having speakers designed and built in Europe for the European market.
Hi! You're right,you say good things about loudspeakers. All of my most natural sounded loudspeakers had paper cone - the Videoton Amethyst (made in Hungary in the 70s) the Wharfedale Mach 3 (made in England in 1985) and what I use now a Heco what has "craft paper" mid-bass driver cone. The old ones were not the best loudspeakers what I had but very detailed, very good at human speech and vocals, and lively performance at the mid range. A big paper cone woofer with weak magnet in closed box=could wonder in the low bass end and very natural in mid bass.
Names indicate to the public what the designer was striving to achieve. Pioneer is sounding just like how a Pioneer goes out into the world 🌎 to establish themselves. A bold move not supported by the army. A single sonic pulse that goes out into the world.
Nice work, Kelvin, it looks like you're as bad as me for hoarding gear.. it's fun to play around with different components and speakers, it never ceases to amaze the transformation that can be had by doing so.
@ebsman Look at the brand philosophy. Names indicate something about the performance design. For example the sound of pioneer is similar to what a real pioneer does. A bold move out into the world and doesn't come with support. You have to buy the support amplifier to stretch out the bold sound. The name pioneer tells you what the sound theory will be.
Brilliant video - I was right at home - I started being interested in audio/hi-fi in my teens in the early 70's so could really agree with what you were saying! Hadn't sussed the Kenwood had an ABR though. I also agree that old speakers can sound good (as long as the surrounds are intact). I've just renovated some 31-year old Mission 761s with re-wiring and replacement tweeters (my then toddlers pushed in the old Visaton DT94's domes) and hooked them up to my main hi-fi system - they sound fantastic with surprising bass from 6.5" woofers (I think). I was amazed how little the tweeters had changed in those 31 years. They moved the fixing hole centers in by about 2mm - probably to prevent cracking of the faceplate otherwise everything else was identical. The reason claimed then for the elliptical fad was the short distance across is like a midrange and the long distance across is like a woofer so it was a compromise for bass and mid. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Had my DM4’s from new and like you say ‘classy’. Nearly 50 years old! Very well built and gorgeous with vinyl. 2020 speakers may be better but at a price.
I picked up a pair of 1970's vintage Cerwin Vega R-12s at a local auction cheap. I refoamed and recapped them and I'm very happy with the results. The R-12 has a 12" base driver with a paper cone, large magnet and large voice coil, a silk dome tweeter and an adjustable crossover with the dial on the back of the speaker. It's ported in the back also. The walnut veneer cabinets are gorgeous and I keep them fed, waxed and polished to a soft warm glow. I use these as my man LR speakers with a 12" powered subwoofer (a Klipsch spun copper). I set the crossover on the amp to 80Hz so the real base goes to the powered sub and the 12" drivers on the speakers more-or-less act as very large agile mids. The silk dome tweeters are plush and detailed. I realize this might not be the ideal audiophile set up but I'm quite pleased this configuration. I hear things in music that I've never heard before even though I've been listening to that music in some cases for decades. Depending on what your expectations are it's certainly possible to breath new life into old speakers and end up with a very nice sound. Adjusting for inflation of the original price these speakers would today cost a lot, lot more than anything I could afford so I'm happy.
@@stereoreviewx Yes, it does. Even though as I said, I'm not using them for the lower bass frequencies. I set the amp crossover to send everything below 80Hz to the sub and use the speaker's onboard crossover to let the high mids and highs go to the silk dome tweeter. That leaves the mids and low mids for that large driver. This avoids conflicting mids and bass on a two way speaker quite well. The large voice coil and magnet on that 12 inch driver don't have to struggle producing mid-range and bass out of the same cone. When sitting between the two speakers playing music you would swear there's a center channel right in front of you somewhere. It's a bit uncanny. The best part is that with speakers, foam kits, cap kits and wood treatment items I've got just under $200 in the whole package. That's $100 per speaker and had I spent that on modern speakers i wouldn't have nearly as good sound as I do now. The original cost (MSRP) of these C-V R-12s was around $1300 each. In the mid 1970's. When you take inflation into account that would be over $10,000 today. You're very correct about being able to pick up "vintage" components cheap and using them to build out a really great system that produces way, way above its price point. My only wish is that these were the D-12 three-way speakers instead of the R-12 two-way. That's the other side of the coin when it comes to buying vintage audio. You have to be happy with what you can actually get your hands on. Still, I'm absolutely not complaining one bit.
I know it's a challenge to describe to someone what a speaker will sound like, but I can definitely look at this lineup and tell you which albums are going to sound amazing playing out of each one - and which will fall short lol
Love your vids but would enjoy actually hearing the comparisons. Despite whatever inferior speakers I'm using, there would still be noticeable differences we could enjoy hearing.
Discovered a pair of University Medallion II in a friend's garage, in his view "taking up space. I looked 'em up and discovered that they were made in '63. Not the top of the line, but #2 for them that year. I bought a class D 50 wpc amp and gave them to my daughter. They were FLOORED by the sound. Highly efficient. (Neighbors complained when her boyfriend watche a Lord of the Rings movie at low to mid volume.) I looked on eBay, and as it happened, there were an identical pair. Starting bid was $795/pair. I just LOVE being at the right place at just the right time.
I'm embarking on a DIY project. I have a pair of JVC SK-303 speakers and will be replacing the paper mids and tweets with Vifa's and adding a new and better crossover. I'm keeping the 12" woofers. These will be my "poor man's" set of decent floor speakers. A little wood filler and gloss black paint and it will be complete. I've had the Vifas for 20 years so its about time. :)
Hi Kelvin. Nice video. Info from Denmark: The Beovox speakers were designed to be placed on top of a bookshelf horizontal, hence the drivers placement in the kabinet.😉
Haha. I love theses reviews. A trip down memory lane. Can I request you bring up your audio level a bit please so that the adds don’t blast my ears. Thanks.
Great video, good info! One of the more satisfying moments in the hobby for me, was getting to a point where I could tell if I would like a speaker or not, just based on the looks. Learned to look for some of the things you pointed out like the paper tweeters.
I have custom system with KEF 8" and 5" woofers that I bought from KEF, the big magnet versions in 1977 ... they are still flawless 44 years later, talk about quality manufacturing and design.
K another good show ol chap. A confusing phenomena is audio to me rather like hieroglyphics personally, but the manner in which you simplify it into laymen terms is testament to your brilliance. Keep em rolling baby..
Thanks for this interesting video - a "friend of a friend" - who had a few bob - had a pair of Gale 401s around 1977 or 1978. They each had 2 bass drivers if my memory serves correctly.
The speaker boxes also play an important roll with the drivers. You can have a really nice driver and have it sound like junk if its in a poorly matched speaker box. I see a lot of homemade boom box videos that have zero bass, or those who replace drivers with car stereo speakers into Hi-Fi speaker boxes, they sound terrible with no bottom end.
A lot of people don't know this but a natural uncompressed paper pulp cone is one of the best speaker diaphragm materials. AND rather costless to produce hence the use of other materials.
Hi Kelvin Thanks your video s are very interesting and informative, I really enjoy them all! I also have collected and formed many different systems over the years. Just recently picked up a pair of 1985 mission 700LE and was blown away by there midrange quality, they really do sound rather nice and only cost me £20.00 in the wood finish! Have you ever tried a pair? It would be interesting for you to review a pair with your thoughts on them! Best regards Paul Ps keep up the good work! Welldone Kelvin! 😊👍
Hey kelvin, love your videos man ☝🏻. Recently got really into my hifi, have a pair of leak sandwich 600’s from 1971-1972. Sound amazing to be honest, might have to keep my eye out for more vintage speakers 🙌🏻. Hope you make more vids soon 👏🏻
Yes that is a good description of just how things went, I think from well built but not that advanced to more advanced drivers but the budget was cut for everything else. What is classed as vintage now days I have to wonder? My advice for what it is worth is, if you delve into the vintage audio world you must accept the age of the gear, its use or abuse, what music etc you like, and as he says, names don't always mean you get from one generation to the next the same quality. My favorite new old speakers at this moment are American, while I grew up with British, Japanese, German, I love them all in their own way. Just goes to show, I think you need to really learn what you like, and try and find it, it may take you some time, but it will I think be worth the hunt.
Thank You for the channel, I subscribed recently and am learning a lot through your experience, and chasing rabbits that hop out of your videos. 😆 Found a REALLY nice Harmon Kardon 730 yesterday, local to me. I gave the gentleman $350.00 USD.
Hi you can get the dent on the Kenwood woofer bye pulling the dust cover with a vacume cleaner just hold the cone first then take the vaume and remove that dent , it works every time , I am the Speaker Doctor from Canada , i like your collection very nice gear . :-)
You should have included the JBL Control ONE you have in the back there, one of their most successful bookshelf monitors and for good reason! Think they are still made to this day, released around 1990 I believe.
I’m buying a pair of Blaupunkt floor standing speakers from the 80s. These are pretty big and on wheels! They also have 2 woofers in each cabinet. Big buggers but I bet they sound good!
Your reasoning, and your approach are impeccable, Sir! Having said that, I am frustrated, because the vintage (and new) speakers you review may be common in the UK, but not in the US. Here in the States, I N-E-V-E-R see many of the models you rate. In fact, there are entire brands you enjoy, which we never get access to - especially with the international fear-driven imprisonment scheme now in it's second year and counting...
I had a pair of the Kenwood LS-5000 as yours. Built really well, passive radiator was very useful, and a decent xover. But yeah, it wasn’t an accurate sounding, but definitely could get loud!
Thank you for taking us on your journey Kelvin. To get me started in vintage audio I just bought a Sansui AU-317 before everybody knows about them. Also a set of Beovox 3702 (a bit different from your 3700) for fun and a lovely set of Audiolab Candor II speakers (a Dutch brand). I'd like to know if you have made any adaptations to your home for sound like dispersion and absorption panels and or base traps and such? and what do you thinks about using a equalizer to attune your speakers to your room. The reason I ask is because I noticed how much better my speaker sound when I cup my ears with my hands. It's like instantly throwing 10.000 dollars in improvements at you system.
Yes well personally I just don’t really think about room treatments I suppose partly I’m always changing stuff now I don’t like graphic equaliser is generally speaking because you just lose a lot of detail when you put in 10 pots on each channel .cheers K
I remember my dad building a pair of speakers using the B200 and T27. My brother ended up having them and he blew up the T27s. I think they are in my parents' attic. The B200s are probably worth a bit of money.
When my wife and I (me??) were dating in 1981 I bought her an inexpensive system. Receiver, cassette deck and speakers. The speakers were Synergistics S12B. Not bad "sound" for the musically ignorant. A good 8" woofer (-3dB @ 55Hz) but crossed over to tweeter at 3200Hz. Much too high for good midrange dispersion. The tweeter was 2.5" and gave poor dispersion of high frequencies. In a small acoustically live room they sound acceptable on rock music and tolerable on classical. I didn't really understand loudspeaker mechanics then and at $75 a pair, they fit my budget. Use them in my basement workshop now. Drivers and crossovers are so important in a speakers sound. Replaced them in my wife's system with Boston Acoustics A-40 speakers. Caveat emptor when speaker shopping.
.Ed Fleming Have you any information of a pair off speakers I own and still use today, I bought them with my first hi fi system back around 1970 in Vancouver Canada, they are called Mectron mark 7 and were made in Vancouver by Patterson Industries-LTD. They still sound great and I use them now with a Sony amp and turntable. by the way I am 80 years of age.
Given the vintage covered, it is surprising that you did not include a speaker from Accoustic Research, such as the AR3a. After all, Accoustic Research were the first speakers to use dome speakers, both for mid range and tweeter.
When a cymbal is hit its not just white noise that fades. The are quiet sounds between the swish of the cymbal sound. A better speaker will let you hear the quieter sounds while a cheap maybe paper tweeter smears the sounds so you can't hear the quieter sounds.
The black faced amplifiers are TONE amplifiers. They offer thousands of options so you can FEATURE sounds. Your job is to tune them in. 70s amplifiers offer hundreds of options. Those hundreds of versions of the famous sounds are all different to the thousands of versions
These vintage speakers are great sounding; however, the downside is that many are power hogs as well. But, if you have a suitable amp to drive them (usually 200 watts/ch), you're in for a sonic treat!
Great information in this video. I've been looking for a pair of speakers for my old Harman Kardon 330B, I will try to find a pair of decent vintage ones instead of new.
I know we have different gear in the US. I do have some small B&W 110's. The big 802's etc. are a bit beyond my budget. ADS are a US brand on par with B&W in my opinion. I have had some ADS 710's for over 35 years. Bought them used then. They have 2-7" woofers, paper butyl surrounds a 3" soft dome midrange and a 1" soft dome tweeter. Very unique lovely smooth sound. Not super bright but nice and punchy with two smaller woofers.
What about tweeters that use ferro fluid for cooling, with age , the ferro fluid dries out and changes the sound of the tweeter and increase’s the risk of failure. Another point of failure with older speakers is capacitors that dry out over time . As far as the woofers are considered, the surrounds loose their elasticity over time that could also led to failure, with the price people are asking for used speakers, I’ll probably just go with new.
I would agree that the bargains are fewer and farther between these days Worth noting a lot of people ask a lot of money for Speakers and they simply don’t sell
I dont know if i agree with the paper drivers not sounding that good. I have a set of mint JBL L36 speakers that i honestly think sound amazing paired with my marantz 2238.
Well old Moulden shorts from the 70s I would call them polite quite accurate in offensive but I’m not saying they’re bad there’s good engineering there
Happy holidays! Was hoping I could pick your brain… I’m auditioning these 4 speakers: Canton Karat 300, Ohm FRS-7, Dahlquist DQM-9 Compact, Altec Lansing 305. I’m curious if one of the 4 really stand out and if you had to choose one (all in good condition) which would you pick? Sound + looks is important for me since these will be next to my McIntosh setup and my wife is a stickler for appearances in our living room. Also, from a value stand point is one more valuable than the others? These are from a friend so pricing is going to be similar across the board. I just tend to enjoy speakers for 5 or so years and then end up selling them to try something new so I’d like a pair that will hold or increase in value.
Buying vintage speakers can be a bit tricky. I personally would never buy one unless I could (1) Pick them up locally (no shipping costs) and (2) personally meet the seller. I am also fortunate to live near "Midwest Speaker Repair" (Minnesota-US) which can re-cone/repair just about any speaker. I guess I am biased towards the "Boston Acoustics" (US) brand since I own two different BA speaker systems. One is 25+ years old and finally had to be re-coned. Love that KEF low-freq driver though...:) I always thought the concept of "passive radiators" was cool. I'm surprised they're not built in to more sub woofers.
Some Japanese brands like Kenwood, Sansui, Akai etc...bought electronic components from Sanyo including speaker drivers, and Sanyo was not exactly known for reliability, now Technics, Yamaha, Mitsubishi (Diatone) and Pioneer had their own division back then, and even these had difficulty keeping up with the evolution of other countries with regard to speakers and the example of this was Pioneer being a brand whose origins were precisely making speakers had to hire a former engineer and creator of the famous JBL L100 to try to improve and innovate its speakers division, and that's when the also famous HPM 100 later appeared.
You're videos helped guide me so that I have knowledge when searching for and setting up vintage gear. You can save so much money getting vintage gear. I just stumbled upon some infinity QBs with the factory stands at the thrift store and was extremely impressed with them. Powering them with a Anthem MRX510. Do you have any experience with vintage Infinity speakers? If so, what are your thoughts?
Hi Kelvin, thank you for all your videos, watched nearly all of them in the last week. Loving your enthusiasm for hifi, mine is growing all the time, especially after your videos, lots of great info. I recently bought a pair of Kef 103 reference, I chose these ahead or some DM4s. Have you had any experience with the Kef 103 s ? They surprised me with more bass than I expected from a closed box 2 way . I'm thinking of getting the DM4s too, to compare with my Kefs as they're coming from a good source at a good price. I also have a pair of Leak sandwich 15 ohmm speakers that were given to me, these have a great sound for a 2 way speaker with 12 inch bass closed box , but miss some midrange detail, but were a huge improvement on my Goodmans magnum SL. Sadly the Leaks need some upgrading but deemed too expensive, not economical. But if I win the lottery... Looking forward to more of your stuff . Many thank youz Stu
Yes I never enjoyed the league sandwich I thought you can hear the aluminium cone I would imagine the DM fours will have a great mid range and the cats will have better base To me DM fours should go for £200 or less I keep seeing £400 though I don’t think anybody gets that money
Thank you. You “translated”very well again, but i hear a tendency to judge the speaker by its looks and material it is made of. I almost hear you say that a silk dome tweeter sounds silky and a early metal dome sounds brash or metallic(?). With your enormous listening experience i would-be interested if you could indeed distinguish the material used. Even apart from the cross-over designed voicing...in a blindfold listening test. Is that an option? Thank you. I would bet that you could write the Robert Parker Bordeaux equivalent on loudspeakers and amps
I found a pair of Epos Epic 2 speakers off of Craigslist that have changed my world, and I'm f$%^ing serious. I had some Triangle Bro3 hooked up. The Epos speaker blow them away!! 😑 🎧 I love the look of the B&W dm 4s. Would like to try them someday!
Hats off as usual for quality content delivered in a personable way. *My* question is on the Celestion Ditton 15XR. Would love to hear your thoughts..? Cheers
Interesting! I think it was the 15's (prior to the XR version) that had the spiral fronted tweeter. They were pretty crude looking things. Not as attractive as the 15xrs.
Double tweeters done for dark UK sound due to inferior tweeters and weak ranging woofers. Harbeth still does it. Its difficult to combine a 20cm woofer with a tweeter due to roll off.
Most entertaining - but I got to say I love paper cones! Maybe my ears are useless 😁 Replace the caps on the crossovers and they will likely sound better.
Nice tests, love the oldies kef reference 102 without kube, put it on a yamaha ax590 or bigger and adjust loudness and basscorrection and you'll have allmost electrostatic mids, silky highs and amazing deep bass with dynamics , a steal
Those kenwood dont sound so good but have you come across the Kenwood da-9010 amplifier from around 1990..I think it's a wonderful amp. Also curious to know if you have come across Heybrook sextet speakers again wonderful in my opinion. Enjoying the reviews.
Just from your descriptions it feels like the 1968 one would be grat with music from the era, where both the far lows and far highs are weaker, just by means of recording. The 1972 sould be good for slow, stable lows, like a kick or a slower playing bass.
Some of the best units in the world are made of paper, a lot of the old 65-70 are FAR better than what is made today, there is a reason why the old units are in demand today, and cost a lot more a good devices from today, I do not know where you get your knowledge from, but is it your own opinion so remember to tell it in your video, there are also people who know a lot about speakers that watch your video and think nonsense. And as for Beovox, I can tell you that B&O had one of the best listening / test rooms in the world, so the fact that not much time has been spent making their speakers is nonsense, you could try to find one pair the Beovox 5000Mk 3 from 1968 and test them you will be looking for a long time to find something just as good.
My first setup I had when I was 13 about 2001 was my dads old technics suv3 amp, b&w dm110 speakers, denon dcd485 CD player, nad 5120 turntable, my grandads old Sony cassette player and my dad's old teleton tuner. Great and very informative video as usual
Top of the line vintage speakers paired with todays latest amps are one life's biggest pleasures...
Vintage amps and vintage speakers...
Matching impedance results in NO out of phase cancellations of sound.
Agreed. And you get the pleasure of saving a pile of cash by Not trying to get an = sound from brand new speakers. As for vintage power amps, I'd take a s/h Krell 'KSA 50' (50 watts per ch' with two 1'kva (1000'watts each) huge fat, tall & heavy transformers inside, they can drive anything, even down to 2'ohm bass dips in some fill-range e/stats & can do inefficient boxes with ease, wattage is a misleading marketing tool (without a peak inside or knowing more related output spec's) & less important than maximum 'loud cruising' current delivery spec, i.m.o. P.S. i know next to nothing about class D amps, just their switching power supplies, to a degree.
One other difference in the KEF B200 large magnet woofer is the surround is made of PVC whereas the smaller magnet B200 is neoprene. Visually that's only way to tell them apart when mounted. The large magnet B200 is less common; the smaller magnet version being the one many manufactures used most often. That Monitor Audio used the more expensive B200 on their MA4 tells you just how committed to excellence they were back then.
Great discussion of vintage speakers and their differences over the years.
I know that some B200 and B110 variants, there were several of each, were only sold to manufacturers, others were available to DIYers.
Well, that’s cleared up the basics for me .. and being in the 40+ yrs the contextual understanding even better .. thanks for sharing x
Very interesting breakdown on tweetersin relation to the woofers. You broke ground where other stereo reviewers have not gone. I'm a stereo/audio enthusiast from the 1960s, and caught the bug when my dad vigorously sampled various speakers to match with his system. I love the way you broke(no pun intended) it down in explanation! Thirty-five years ago I purchased a pair of vintage 2way Advents (1970s) that sat lonely in a dusty corner at thrift store. The pair cost $35USD. Large speakers, and, wow! They literally blew me away! But, I did have to replace the woofers shortly after, as they proved rotted from having been in someone's storage. They have been joyously used ever since.
Great video, being a 40 year collector, love hearing the horror stories about paper cones and rubber surrounds, would love to see a video on the AR 3a
The Polk LS series are great sounding vintage speakers. Nicely balanced, very detailed, yet buttery smooth. Polk accomplished this by using a trilaminate dome made of polyamide, aluminum, and stainless steel. This layered construction produces the smooth response of a soft-dome tweeter along with the clarity and precision of a metal dome. I can't even listen to music on my Polk RTi A9s, but the LS 70s sound great with all music. These do need a decent amp to shine though, even at 90dB sensitivity, they dip to 3 ohms. With a good amp they will stay tight and clean sounding right up to about 300 watts.
If driven by a cheap mass market receiver you probably won't think they are nothing special and store them in the closet for 10 years like I did. I was blown away when I hooked them up to my JC1 mono blocks. They don't need that much of an amp, but it doesn't hurt if you want to really turn it up and feel the music. The LS 70s were $1200 in 1992. They are real gems if you can find a pair. I paid $80 for mine and they are in great shape.
Thanks for a clear and useful guide to speakers, Kelvin!
When I was getting into hi-fi in the late 70s I did a lot of research to try and make my limited funds go further. One thing I remember is that there were generally said to be three schools of thought on speaker design, and they broke down geographically. American speakers tended to be punchy and bassy, British & European speakers had a warmer and more laid-back sound, while Japanese speakers were airy and bright. Later on, Japan Inc. addressed this by having speakers designed and built in Europe for the European market.
Yeah I was going to do a video on this subject I pretty much agree with what you’re saying there is definitely truth in the differences
@GeneralCurtis3LeMay I didn’t like the arcam a85 with B&W speakers. It just didn’t sound right and I am not an audiophile
Hi! You're right,you say good things about loudspeakers.
All of my most natural sounded loudspeakers had paper cone - the Videoton Amethyst (made in Hungary in the 70s) the Wharfedale Mach 3 (made in England in 1985) and what I use now a Heco what has "craft paper" mid-bass driver cone.
The old ones were not the best loudspeakers what I had but very detailed, very good at human speech and vocals, and lively performance at the mid range.
A big paper cone woofer with weak magnet in closed box=could wonder in the low bass end and very natural in mid bass.
Names indicate to the public what the designer was striving to achieve.
Pioneer is sounding just like how a Pioneer goes out into the world 🌎 to establish themselves.
A bold move not supported by the army.
A single sonic pulse that goes out into the world.
Nice video. I just bought some mint condition Polk 7 b's and am blown away by their closed box sound paired with dual subs.
Nice work, Kelvin, it looks like you're as bad as me for hoarding gear.. it's fun to play around with different components and speakers, it never ceases to amaze the transformation that can be had by doing so.
What about Bose speakers ?
@@ebsmanCrap.
@ebsman
Look at the brand philosophy.
Names indicate something about the performance design.
For example the sound of pioneer is similar to what a real pioneer does.
A bold move out into the world and doesn't come with support.
You have to buy the support amplifier to stretch out the bold sound.
The name pioneer tells you what the sound theory will be.
Brilliant video - I was right at home - I started being interested in audio/hi-fi in my teens in the early 70's so could really agree with what you were saying! Hadn't sussed the Kenwood had an ABR though. I also agree that old speakers can sound good (as long as the surrounds are intact). I've just renovated some 31-year old Mission 761s with re-wiring and replacement tweeters (my then toddlers pushed in the old Visaton DT94's domes) and hooked them up to my main hi-fi system - they sound fantastic with surprising bass from 6.5" woofers (I think). I was amazed how little the tweeters had changed in those 31 years. They moved the fixing hole centers in by about 2mm - probably to prevent cracking of the faceplate otherwise everything else was identical.
The reason claimed then for the elliptical fad was the short distance across is like a midrange and the long distance across is like a woofer so it was a compromise for bass and mid.
All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Interesting stuff thanks K
Had my DM4’s from new and like you say ‘classy’. Nearly 50 years old! Very well built and gorgeous with vinyl. 2020 speakers may be better but at a price.
I picked up a pair of 1970's vintage Cerwin Vega R-12s at a local auction cheap. I refoamed and recapped them and I'm very happy with the results. The R-12 has a 12" base driver with a paper cone, large magnet and large voice coil, a silk dome tweeter and an adjustable crossover with the dial on the back of the speaker. It's ported in the back also. The walnut veneer cabinets are gorgeous and I keep them fed, waxed and polished to a soft warm glow.
I use these as my man LR speakers with a 12" powered subwoofer (a Klipsch spun copper). I set the crossover on the amp to 80Hz so the real base goes to the powered sub and the 12" drivers on the speakers more-or-less act as very large agile mids. The silk dome tweeters are plush and detailed.
I realize this might not be the ideal audiophile set up but I'm quite pleased this configuration. I hear things in music that I've never heard before even though I've been listening to that music in some cases for decades.
Depending on what your expectations are it's certainly possible to breath new life into old speakers and end up with a very nice sound. Adjusting for inflation of the original price these speakers would today cost a lot, lot more than anything I could afford so I'm happy.
Sounds good to me a 12 inch bass driver will really do something for you
@@stereoreviewx Yes, it does. Even though as I said, I'm not using them for the lower bass frequencies. I set the amp crossover to send everything below 80Hz to the sub and use the speaker's onboard crossover to let the high mids and highs go to the silk dome tweeter. That leaves the mids and low mids for that large driver. This avoids conflicting mids and bass on a two way speaker quite well. The large voice coil and magnet on that 12 inch driver don't have to struggle producing mid-range and bass out of the same cone.
When sitting between the two speakers playing music you would swear there's a center channel right in front of you somewhere. It's a bit uncanny.
The best part is that with speakers, foam kits, cap kits and wood treatment items I've got just under $200 in the whole package. That's $100 per speaker and had I spent that on modern speakers i wouldn't have nearly as good sound as I do now. The original cost (MSRP) of these C-V R-12s was around $1300 each. In the mid 1970's. When you take inflation into account that would be over $10,000 today. You're very correct about being able to pick up "vintage" components cheap and using them to build out a really great system that produces way, way above its price point.
My only wish is that these were the D-12 three-way speakers instead of the R-12 two-way. That's the other side of the coin when it comes to buying vintage audio. You have to be happy with what you can actually get your hands on. Still, I'm absolutely not complaining one bit.
I know it's a challenge to describe to someone what a speaker will sound like, but I can definitely look at this lineup and tell you which albums are going to sound amazing playing out of each one - and which will fall short lol
One of the best vintage loudspeakers which i owned was the Rogers Studio 1 made in England. I bought these speakers in 1984.
Love your vids but would enjoy actually hearing the comparisons. Despite whatever inferior speakers I'm using, there would still be noticeable differences we could enjoy hearing.
Discovered a pair of University Medallion II in a friend's garage, in his view "taking up space. I looked 'em up and discovered that they were made in '63. Not the top of the line, but #2 for them that year. I bought a class D 50 wpc amp and gave them to my daughter. They were FLOORED by the sound. Highly efficient. (Neighbors complained when her boyfriend watche a Lord of the Rings movie at low to mid volume.) I looked on eBay, and as it happened, there were an identical pair. Starting bid was $795/pair. I just LOVE being at the right place at just the right time.
Wow interesting I’m going to look them up
I'm embarking on a DIY project. I have a pair of JVC SK-303 speakers and will be replacing the paper mids and tweets with Vifa's and adding a new and better crossover. I'm keeping the 12" woofers. These will be my "poor man's" set of decent floor speakers. A little wood filler and gloss black paint and it will be complete. I've had the Vifas for 20 years so its about time. :)
Hi Kelvin. Nice video. Info from Denmark: The Beovox speakers were designed to be placed on top of a bookshelf horizontal, hence the drivers placement in the kabinet.😉
Haha. I love theses reviews. A trip down memory lane. Can I request you bring up your audio level a bit please so that the adds don’t blast my ears. Thanks.
Yeah will do
Great video, good info! One of the more satisfying moments in the hobby for me, was getting to a point where I could tell if I would like a speaker or not, just based on the looks. Learned to look for some of the things you pointed out like the paper tweeters.
I have custom system with KEF 8" and 5" woofers that I bought from KEF, the big magnet versions in 1977 ... they are still flawless 44 years later, talk about quality manufacturing and design.
K another good show ol chap. A confusing phenomena is audio to me rather like hieroglyphics personally, but the manner in which you simplify it into laymen terms is testament to your brilliance. Keep em rolling baby..
Thanks for this interesting video - a "friend of a friend" - who had a few bob - had a pair of Gale 401s around 1977 or 1978. They each had 2 bass drivers if my memory serves correctly.
The speaker boxes also play an important roll with the drivers. You can have a really nice driver and have it sound like junk if its in a poorly matched speaker box. I see a lot of homemade boom box videos that have zero bass, or those who replace drivers with car stereo speakers into Hi-Fi speaker boxes, they sound terrible with no bottom end.
Really interesting video and good descriptions of the character of these speakers from the past. Nice close-up look at the drive units too.
A lot of people don't know this but a natural uncompressed paper pulp cone is one of the best speaker diaphragm materials. AND rather costless to produce hence the use of other materials.
Hi Kelvin
Thanks your video s are very interesting and informative, I really enjoy them all!
I also have collected and formed many different systems over the years.
Just recently picked up a pair of 1985 mission 700LE and was blown away by there midrange quality, they really do sound rather nice and only cost me £20.00 in the wood finish! Have you ever tried a pair? It would be interesting for you to review a pair with your thoughts on them!
Best regards
Paul
Ps keep up the good work! Welldone Kelvin! 😊👍
The volume control is the midrange adjustment.
Then you remove bass and treble and you get a vintage style warm sound.
Hey kelvin, love your videos man ☝🏻. Recently got really into my hifi, have a pair of leak sandwich 600’s from 1971-1972. Sound amazing to be honest, might have to keep my eye out for more vintage speakers 🙌🏻. Hope you make more vids soon 👏🏻
Yes that is a good description of just how things went, I think from well built but not that advanced to more advanced drivers but the budget was cut for everything else. What is classed as vintage now days I have to wonder? My advice for what it is worth is, if you delve into the vintage audio world you must accept the age of the gear, its use or abuse, what music etc you like, and as he says, names don't always mean you get from one generation to the next the same quality. My favorite new old speakers at this moment are American, while I grew up with British, Japanese, German, I love them all in their own way. Just goes to show, I think you need to really learn what you like, and try and find it, it may take you some time, but it will I think be worth the hunt.
Thank You for the channel, I subscribed recently and am learning a lot through your experience, and chasing rabbits that hop out of your videos. 😆 Found a REALLY nice Harmon Kardon 730 yesterday, local to me. I gave the gentleman $350.00 USD.
Hi you can get the dent on the Kenwood woofer bye pulling the dust cover with a vacume cleaner just hold the cone first then take the vaume and remove that dent , it works every time , I am the Speaker Doctor from Canada , i like your collection very nice gear . :-)
nice to hear from you ...
You should have included the JBL Control ONE you have in the back there, one of their most successful bookshelf monitors and for good reason! Think they are still made to this day, released around 1990 I believe.
Yeah I’m doing it next video to
I’m buying a pair of Blaupunkt floor standing speakers from the 80s. These are pretty big and on wheels! They also have 2 woofers in each cabinet. Big buggers but I bet they sound good!
Big speakers big sound
I've got the big brother to the Rogers LS2 (LS6a) on my office setup with an Audiolab 8000c+p setup - and it sounds great.
Your reasoning, and your approach are impeccable, Sir!
Having said that, I am frustrated, because the vintage (and new) speakers you review may be common in the UK, but not in the US.
Here in the States, I N-E-V-E-R see many of the models you rate. In fact, there are entire brands you enjoy, which we never get access to - especially with the international fear-driven imprisonment scheme now in it's second year and counting...
I had a pair of the Kenwood LS-5000 as yours. Built really well, passive radiator was very useful, and a decent xover. But yeah, it wasn’t an accurate sounding, but definitely could get loud!
Sweet collections you have there. Very useful explanations on the characteristics of different woofers and tweeters. Thank you.
JBL LX44, LX500, LX55 and LX600 get my vote as great vintage speakers ( post 80's era ).
Thank you for taking us on your journey Kelvin. To get me started in vintage audio I just bought a Sansui AU-317 before everybody knows about them. Also a set of Beovox 3702 (a bit different from your 3700) for fun and a lovely set of Audiolab Candor II speakers (a Dutch brand). I'd like to know if you have made any adaptations to your home for sound like dispersion and absorption panels and or base traps and such? and what do you thinks about using a equalizer to attune your speakers to your room. The reason I ask is because I noticed how much better my speaker sound when I cup my ears with my hands. It's like instantly throwing 10.000 dollars in improvements at you system.
Yes well personally I just don’t really think about room treatments I suppose partly I’m always changing stuff now I don’t like graphic equaliser is generally speaking because you just lose a lot of detail when you put in 10 pots on each channel .cheers K
I remember my dad building a pair of speakers using the B200 and T27. My brother ended up having them and he blew up the T27s. I think they are in my parents' attic. The B200s are probably worth a bit of money.
you can get hol of t27 secondhand
When my wife and I (me??) were dating in 1981 I bought her an inexpensive system. Receiver, cassette deck and speakers. The speakers were Synergistics S12B. Not bad "sound" for the musically ignorant. A good 8" woofer (-3dB @ 55Hz) but crossed over to tweeter at 3200Hz. Much too high for good midrange dispersion. The tweeter was 2.5" and gave poor dispersion of high frequencies. In a small acoustically live room they sound acceptable on rock music and tolerable on classical. I didn't really understand loudspeaker mechanics then and at $75 a pair, they fit my budget. Use them in my basement workshop now. Drivers and crossovers are so important in a speakers sound. Replaced them in my wife's system with Boston Acoustics A-40 speakers. Caveat emptor when speaker shopping.
.Ed Fleming
Have you any information of a pair off speakers I own and still use today, I bought them with my first hi fi system back around 1970 in Vancouver Canada, they are called Mectron mark 7 and were made in Vancouver by Patterson Industries-LTD.
They still sound great and I use them now with a Sony amp and turntable. by the way I am 80 years of age.
Can’t say I’ve heard of those Ed anybody else
Consigli d'oro ..amo l'hi fi inglese e con Te imparo sempre di più...grazie ancora ti seguo con vero piacere un saluto da Venezia Italy
Given the vintage covered, it is surprising that you did not include a speaker from Accoustic Research, such as the AR3a. After all, Accoustic Research were the first speakers to use dome speakers, both for mid range and tweeter.
Love that kenwood. I'd make some changes and then it would annoy the neighbors properly.
When a cymbal is hit its not just white noise that fades. The are quiet sounds between the swish of the cymbal sound. A better speaker will let you hear the quieter sounds while a cheap maybe paper tweeter smears the sounds so you can't hear the quieter sounds.
Could be deterioration inside the tiny component values.
The black faced amplifiers are TONE amplifiers.
They offer thousands of options so you can FEATURE sounds.
Your job is to tune them in.
70s amplifiers offer hundreds of options.
Those hundreds of versions of the famous sounds are all different to the thousands of versions
These vintage speakers are great sounding; however, the downside is that many are power hogs as well. But, if you have a suitable amp to drive them (usually 200 watts/ch), you're in for a sonic treat!
I used the Peerless 1" tweeter with ferro-fluid cooling as well.
I was surprised by the Yamaha NS-670 from the 70s. It's a great sounding speaker.
I had Jensen's Model 6 in High School.. I loved them.. Cranked them all the time! They sounded great in my opinion.
Great information in this video. I've been looking for a pair of speakers for my old Harman Kardon 330B, I will try to find a pair of decent vintage ones instead of new.
I know we have different gear in the US. I do have some small B&W 110's. The big 802's etc. are a bit beyond my budget. ADS are a US brand on par with B&W in my opinion. I have had some ADS 710's for over 35 years. Bought them used then. They have 2-7" woofers, paper butyl surrounds a 3" soft dome midrange and a 1" soft dome tweeter. Very unique lovely smooth sound. Not super bright but nice and punchy with two smaller woofers.
What about tweeters that use ferro fluid for cooling, with age , the ferro fluid dries out and changes the sound of the tweeter and increase’s the risk of failure. Another point of failure with older speakers is capacitors that dry out over time . As far as the woofers are considered, the surrounds loose their elasticity over time that could also led to failure, with the price people are asking for used speakers, I’ll probably just go with new.
I would agree that the bargains are fewer and farther between these days
Worth noting a lot of people ask a lot of money for Speakers and they simply don’t sell
I dont know if i agree with the paper drivers not sounding that good. I have a set of mint JBL L36 speakers that i honestly think sound amazing paired with my marantz 2238.
EPI 100's kick ass.
Excellent trip down memory lane, very informative and no techy-jargon! Any views on Mordaunt Short's speakers?
Well old Moulden shorts from the 70s I would call them polite quite accurate in offensive but I’m not saying they’re bad there’s good engineering there
Happy holidays! Was hoping I could pick your brain… I’m auditioning these 4 speakers: Canton Karat 300, Ohm FRS-7, Dahlquist DQM-9 Compact, Altec Lansing 305.
I’m curious if one of the 4 really stand out and if you had to choose one (all in good condition) which would you pick?
Sound + looks is important for me since these will be next to my McIntosh setup and my wife is a stickler for appearances in our living room.
Also, from a value stand point is one more valuable than the others? These are from a friend so pricing is going to be similar across the board. I just tend to enjoy speakers for 5 or so years and then end up selling them to try something new so I’d like a pair that will hold or increase in value.
Buying vintage speakers can be a bit tricky. I personally would never buy one unless I could (1) Pick them up locally (no shipping costs) and (2) personally meet the seller. I am also fortunate to live near "Midwest Speaker Repair" (Minnesota-US) which can re-cone/repair just about any speaker. I guess I am biased towards the "Boston Acoustics" (US) brand since I own two different BA speaker systems. One is 25+ years old and finally had to be re-coned. Love that KEF low-freq driver though...:) I always thought the concept of "passive radiators" was cool. I'm surprised they're not built in to more sub woofers.
Some Japanese brands like Kenwood, Sansui, Akai etc...bought electronic components from Sanyo including speaker drivers, and Sanyo was not exactly known for reliability, now Technics, Yamaha, Mitsubishi (Diatone) and Pioneer had their own division back then, and even these had difficulty keeping up with the evolution of other countries with regard to speakers and the example of this was Pioneer being a brand whose origins were precisely making speakers had to hire a former engineer and creator of the famous JBL L100 to try to improve and innovate its speakers division, and that's when the also famous HPM 100 later appeared.
Passive radiators are a bad idea for music, but good for marketing... Polk comes to mind.
Great stuff, Kelvin. Those Kenwoods, hahaha!
You're videos helped guide me so that I have knowledge when searching for and setting up vintage gear. You can save so much money getting vintage gear.
I just stumbled upon some infinity QBs with the factory stands at the thrift store and was extremely impressed with them. Powering them with a Anthem MRX510. Do you have any experience with vintage Infinity speakers? If so, what are your thoughts?
Theres some cool vintage hifi shops out here in Japan I should go make a video
The best demo I never heard. Cheers
1970s the hi-fi speakers, of 10" woofers 3way were the excellent stereo speakers. For the stereo of Two channels.
Left and right channel.
I always dream to buy one of these speakers.
For me.
The only speaker I like are the big Altec Voice of the theatre speakers with the large horns on top.
Hi Kelvin, thank you for all your videos, watched nearly all of them in the last week. Loving your enthusiasm for hifi, mine is growing all the time, especially after your videos, lots of great info. I recently bought a pair of Kef 103 reference, I chose these ahead or some DM4s. Have you had any experience with the Kef 103 s ? They surprised me with more bass than I expected from a closed box 2 way . I'm thinking of getting the DM4s too, to compare with my Kefs as they're coming from a good source at a good price.
I also have a pair of Leak sandwich 15 ohmm speakers that were given to me, these have a great sound for a 2 way speaker with 12 inch bass closed box , but miss some midrange detail, but were a huge improvement on my Goodmans magnum SL.
Sadly the Leaks need some upgrading but deemed too expensive, not economical.
But if I win the lottery...
Looking forward to more of your stuff .
Many thank youz Stu
Yes I never enjoyed the league sandwich I thought you can hear the aluminium cone
I would imagine the DM fours will have a great mid range and the cats will have better base
To me DM fours should go for £200 or less I keep seeing £400 though I don’t think anybody gets that money
What happened at 13:54 when you touched the MA R252?
He got a tingle
I have a pair of musical fidelity reference 4 and a pair of reference 2 speakers, old but excellent sounding.
you know i feel and hear big livly sound out of mission i wish you would do more on missons speakers
Thank you. You “translated”very well again, but i hear a tendency to judge the speaker by its looks and material it is made of. I almost hear you say that a silk dome tweeter sounds silky and a early metal dome sounds brash or metallic(?). With your enormous listening experience i would-be interested if you could indeed distinguish the material used. Even apart from the cross-over designed voicing...in a blindfold listening test. Is that an option? Thank you. I would bet that you could write the Robert Parker Bordeaux equivalent on loudspeakers and amps
This video makes me miss my Onkyo TX4500 MkII and my AR3A's.
Thanks for the info Kel. Good watch as always. Cheers
I found a pair of Epos Epic 2 speakers off of Craigslist that have changed my world, and I'm f$%^ing serious. I had some Triangle Bro3 hooked up. The Epos speaker blow them away!! 😑 🎧 I love the look of the B&W dm 4s. Would like to try them someday!
Thank you for making this..very informative
hello, like your video. Do speakers that have controls on them like Kenwood KL-444A actually change the sound?
Hats off as usual for quality content delivered in a personable way. *My* question is on the Celestion Ditton 15XR. Would love to hear your thoughts..?
Cheers
I like them I prefer them with Hf 1300 Twitter that’s the one with the spiral as opposed to the later Silk dome
Interesting! I think it was the 15's (prior to the XR version) that had the spiral fronted tweeter. They were pretty crude looking things. Not as attractive as the 15xrs.
Double tweeters done for dark UK sound due to inferior tweeters and weak ranging woofers. Harbeth still does it. Its difficult to combine a 20cm woofer with a tweeter due to roll off.
Very educational. We see much on expensive new gear but with this field of interest, this was well done. Thank you.
Most entertaining - but I got to say I love paper cones! Maybe my ears are useless 😁
Replace the caps on the crossovers and they will likely sound better.
I kind of agree paper cones can sound great most times they won’t go loud very well though
I bought the JBL L50 from ebay. Awsome speakers
How do you like the Castle Trent 2? :-) I found them in the garbage and they are by far my best speakers!
Nice tests, love the oldies kef reference 102 without kube, put it on a yamaha ax590 or bigger and adjust loudness and basscorrection and you'll have allmost electrostatic mids, silky highs and amazing deep bass with dynamics , a steal
Interesting
Those kenwood dont sound so good but have you come across the Kenwood da-9010 amplifier from around 1990..I think it's a wonderful amp.
Also curious to know if you have come across Heybrook sextet speakers again wonderful in my opinion. Enjoying the reviews.
I had some 1987 Yamaha 10'' Speaker's tower speaker's
This is such a good review man cuz these are all similar prices nowadays im pretty sure.
The tweeter on the small MA is a Vita from Denmark, profusely used in that time.
Vifa, not vita.
Like always Great Review...Still waiting on my Onkyo!!!
I guess that you will celebrate when it finally gets delivered.
Just from your descriptions it feels like the 1968 one would be grat with music from the era, where both the far lows and far highs are weaker, just by means of recording.
The 1972 sould be good for slow, stable lows, like a kick or a slower playing bass.
Some of the best units in the world are made of paper, a lot of the old 65-70 are FAR better than what is made today, there is a reason why the old units are in demand today, and cost a lot more a good devices from today, I do not know where you get your knowledge from, but is it your own opinion so remember to tell it in your video, there are also people who know a lot about speakers that watch your video and think nonsense.
And as for Beovox, I can tell you that B&O had one of the best listening / test rooms in the world, so the fact that not much time has been spent making their speakers is nonsense, you could try to find one pair the Beovox 5000Mk 3 from 1968 and test them you will be looking for a long time to find something just as good.
I have a pair of Celestial Ditton 25, in perfect condition” still going Strong 💪🏽
Big sound keep the drivers screwed in nice and snug
13:52 I thought my whole mains system was shorting out. Did you get a shock, Calvin?
Ok .OK Kalvin,......You Finally Read My Message.....I Got This HEAVY ,SUPER HEAVY Sansui 771 !!!! You never said they weigh A Thousand Pounds!!!???
What did I say 1001
What are your thoughts on Celestion Ditton 662's?
Rogers LS3/6 smooth and luxurious, designed and made with a tonne of love. Lol
Yes the other Roger speakers in that range are quite good it’s like they gave up on those little ones
They are being remade by Stirling Broadcast. I would love to do a side by side comparison, old vs. reborn. www.stirlingbroadcast.net/ls36.html
Kelvin I'd like to see you review a pair of Epos speakers
Great vid, really enjoy this channel