Incels of all kinds are up against one of society’s most frustrating contradictions. They are told that it’s up to them to stop putting so much value on sex and to not define their self worth by it, but also that it’s weird to be a virgin and or single after a certain age.
@@Grace-jb7me Yes. It's also used as a devaluating term as if having sex was something in order to get worth. But that's giving them the reason of why the are frustrated. Society tells them that sex is not a important thing, and then the same use the term as if someone lack of value for not having sex, marking the same as an important trait to have.
I'm probably way older than you so forgive me but, a good chunk of what you are told or persuaded to do isn't always true or real. There's a lot of social control involved around sexual behaviour to the extent that sometimes we are treated as if we are only cattle who consume. You have to tease the truth from the lies. In short, if you follow the path of traditional happiness, you can only be traditionally happy. And look around you at what traditional happiness provides... It's a map, not the actual territory you are actually going through. With that in mind, you have to take in your surroundings thoroughly as you travel to navigate your way safely on your journey. Always try to find out the pros and cons of any destination on offer before committing fully to it. And decide carefully how to get there. And the old sayings of "When in Rome..." and "What's done in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas" applies more than one would suppose.
Ouch….you hit close to home with this one…..I’m about to turn 40, and have no children nor a partner. I’ve been incel for years. I’m a woman who is somewhat attractive but I never found someone I connected with. I don’t want sex for the sake of sex because I don’t really enjoy it. I’ve had to move back in with my parents too, so privacy is an issue. I’ve come to terms with the fact that I will never give birth nor likely find a husband. I’m trying to rearrange my life plan to that acceptance. All my life I thought that I would get married and have children, and that I’d have a partner to grow old with. It’s hard to accept that is the reality for everyone else, but not myself. My status didn’t result from sexual trauma (although I was recently assaulted) but more from circumstances. Tbh, I feel deep resentment especially this time of year. If I could find a partner I would embrace the relationship, however I have given up hope of finding one. At this point I doubt that I could ever sleep comfortably sharing my bed with another person. My game plan now is to switch careers and earn enough money to adopt a tween girl when I’m 50. I feel like older girls don’t get adopted into safe homes as often, and I’d like to provide love, support, and guidance to another young lady before I pass. Thank you for making this video. I’ve had a hard time describing my circumstance to others. I am an incel, but you would never guess if you saw me in person. I would never guess that of you either.
I think it's better to remain alone and be satisfied with yourself than to settle for being with someone you don't feel happy or connected with. That sounds like a beautiful life plan btw. 💖 I fell down a teen adoption rabbit hole the other week and saw how wonderful adopting someone a little older can be. Good luck, whoever's life you touch will be blessed. :)
Fostering kids/teenagers is another great way to connect with people and provide love and care for those who weren’t able to receive it :) i don’t know what fostering is like depending on where you live but i wish you the best. also, would you consider yourself asexual or aromantic? I recently came to the conclusion I am, and although I too know I won’t have a life long partner (which is heavily an idea in our society because of the financial and emotional security it brings), I know that I’d rather find a community of love and support amongst peers.
Go on dates. Adoption is great, but you absolutely deserve love and you deserve a sexual partner, but you must actually meet and communicate with people to make connections.
Ive noticed that adults friendships can be extremely hard to maintain. As a child we are not burdened with responsibilities,( in most cases)our lives are comparatively carefree than that of adults. you become friends with someone not with the intention of personal gain but because you share similar interests or maybe your mums meet for tea. Of course as one gets older things change drastically. You have responsibilities like personal finance, your job, education I mean the list goes on. One can get so caught up in these things that there just isn't time for 'friends'
I'd agree that friendships are harder to maintain as adults, but I think it's that a friendship is harder to form as an adult. To me a friend is someone you go through trial and error with and trust comes as a result of error leading to success. For example if something goes wrong for friend A, friend B does something that allows this problem to be fixed or become less of a problem therefore leading to success and trust. As an adult, you don't have the time (as you said) to make the mistakes required to build a true friendship. In my opinion, someone whom everything is all smiles with or only good times is not your real friend, they're a decoration and acquaintance in your life. But i think to make a real friend requires, trust, mistakes, time and the understanding of each other's boundaries.
Even though im only 18, i moved out of my parents house at 17 and been living the adult life for a bit now. My friends (a lot which happen to be older) and I do tend to drift toward and apart from each other cus of work and school and mental illness, but noticing that people come for a moment and leave the next. If that moment is one night or ya whole life, easy come easy go
Adult friendships are easy to maintain. Having relationships with childern is adult bodies is difficult. Often people look at superficial things, rather than at the character. I also believe we all need to reflect and formulate responses rather saying the first thing that comes to the tongue. Asking questions is part of a conversation, when confronted with a question you would rather not answer, express that. Wading through others emotional expressions is difficult even for adults. Practice is what makes some people seem good at it.
I get that you have LESS time when you’re an adult but I don’t think you don’t have ANY time at all. We adults spend hours on social media and watching Netflix. When we are single we make time for dates and crappy relationships. So there is time still, we just don’t give friendships the priority they deserve. A real good friend will be there for you when your partner and kids are gone but not if you don’t make an effort to cultivate friendships.
It's not just fear of rejection that stops people, it's the fear if they say "yes" to a relationship. Since I'm so inexperienced I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do and what the expectations are. I'm just scared of screwing up. I see dating and relationships like applying for a job I'm not qualified for.
If she's the right one, she'll work with you. You both have to work together to COMMUNICATE your needs and boundaries. A fucking terrifying thing, and what sucks is when you're neck deep with someone and then they change their mind. But if you're not lucky enough, then you just gotta pick yourself up and try again. Better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all.
@Squirrely Girly 23 is still young. It's interesting to see there are women who feel the same way because it seems a lot of the expectations surrounding planning the date lies with the man.
Wow, I don't think I have ever seen someone talk about being literally 'involuntarily celibate' with such openness, vulnerability and empathy - thanks for opening up this conversation, I agree it is sorely needed. When you do not fit in with society's mandated trajectory of romantic and sexual development, it can feel extremely alienating and it's so rarely discussed. You're not alone and this video definitely made me feel less alone. I'd love to see a longer video on this topic!
yeah when men do it they get mocked and ridiculed lol, just keep going on with that misandrist sexism of yours. Women if your trauma isn't preventing you from meeting someone, it's your choice.
@@mikelisteral7863 I have noticed this in youtube comments, as well, but by talking about it in like in this video, people who identify with it can broaden the definition to include themselves and hopefully create empathy for those men, too.
I hate it when people say to those who are single, “You’ll find someone.” How do you know that? There are millions, many of whom are well into old age, haven’t experience romantic love (i.e., being in a relationship). Edit: No matter your age, always remember that you are loved and worthy of love
How do you know that? You don't know how many people have or haven't had a romantic relationship. Headsup: every demographic you can think of has people in it who have or have had romantic relationships. Ugly, old, fat, differently abled, young and old. , You name it, they do it. Nevermind young, fit and beautiful. So, that's really not the issue here. It's about being there, and being accessible. You cannot be loved if you are at home glued to your mobile. If you can't find love in your area, spread your search further. Get out and into the world and find excuses to just meet people. Arrange your life where that is the priority and make connections, where you can meet people outside your circle, and build as many as possible. Network. Screw Tinder. Get out there. The world is a big place, and the more connections you make the better opportunity to find love.
@@BigHenFor How do you know that? Every demographic you can think you would not fit the numbers and many people will left out, because the numbers are not pairs fixed. You can't put .5% of ten people with the other 1%, as a dumb example. People are not evenly distributed. Some places have more young, some more old, some places lack of men, some places lack of women, some places are not so densenly populated, etc. You get the idea. Mating and having a romantic relationship is the norm, because of porcentages, but what about the ones who are not so lucky in their numbers? because of circunstances. You are just no seeing that in the history of the world, not everyone have been capable of reproducing. You are alive because someone was successful into mating, but that is just a percentage of people. While there are another unknown percentage of people who didn't had any descendense, that we don't know of, we don't have any data for those who no one care that died.
really there are not ....the truth is they experienced it but their partner died or the marriage broke up and they didn't want to do that again ....i have experienced 'love' ...but there is no way i would want that relationship now ...so we broke up ..i don't know if i will find love again ..but ...i know lots of people who were married who now face old age alone because it didn't work or someone died etc ...
@@BigHenFor reading your comment feels like a slap on the face to me, i'm 25 and never been in love nor have i been in a relationship with anyone, i'm also introvert and i find it quite hard to open up to someone new, i recently just try to change and be more open, but the problem is i still find it hard to get connected/be interested in that person, i somehow feel like i'm gonna be single forever and won't have the chance to feel a romantic relationship like everyone else around me,to have that kind of thought, it always freaks me out tbh,i grew up thinking that my life would be just as normal as everyone else, meet someone, fall in love, get married, have children, etc, turns out life is so much more complicated than it seems
It's because, statistically speaking, most people do find someone at some point. However, there's never any certainty or guarantee and I'm tired of people acting as if there is. I've managed to find my first and current boyfriend when I was almost 24. It was by accident, too - it's scary to think how easily I could have missed him. I probably would have found someone else even then, maybe even by now - however, I can't be sure of that. The upside is that, even though I was convinced I'm going to stay single, even though I couldn't imagine myself falling in love and having the other person reciprocating or being in a relationship, my belief turned out to be completely false and in my head. However, I don't believe in destiny and I feel like without some luck, I could have very well remained an incel until now.
In college I was labelled as asexual, a closet lesbian, demisexual, aromantic, a religious nut. . . all because I told folks I was practicing celibacy. I craved "soul connections" and emotional intimacy, but I wasn't necessarily looking for sex. I think for a lot of Black girls and femmes, discovering our sexuality and exploring intimacy can be especially nerve-wracking because we are percieved as hypersexual (like as soon as I hit puberty, there were adult men and teachers who commented inappropriately about my "inherent" sexual nature). So we armor ourselves against those perceptions, trying toprove that we are than the words they attach to our bodies . . . but it makes it difficult to trust and to be vulnerable.
You're right, and it can lead to some unpleasant situations but, we have to persevere despite the assumptions people make. People see life and other people often as they are rather than how they really are. So, caution and assertiveness is required. We have to define and protect our boundaries in a world that often forgets we have them. So, I want to stop explaining myself to anyone else. If you don't get me, that's OK. Just stay out of my light. If you get me that's even better. Lol.
100% as a brown girl I feel thiss!!! Since I was 12 pedophiles were hitting on me. "YoUrE nOt TwElVe" ugh. I've been an adult woman since that age, we were never allowed to be a child after puberty. :// (and let us have frieeennnds~ like damn!!!)
Mammals are certainly closer to inherently sexual, than NON-sexual. Infancy is the time when growth is supposed to happen, towards conquering that uncertainty of life and not shirk into staying a toddler until suddenly you turn 18 and the time limit is up. What you call labels now are actually IDENTIFIERS. This is what humans use to BUILD emotional intimacy, from BEING IDENTIFIED, recognition. If you just rely on it, like a craving for others to fulfill, it's not really that different from entitlement to any other craving. It's the EMOTIONAL equivalent of being a dead fish in bed. Some people shirk sex because they don't feel up to it, but then you have to wonder what makes you up to the same adult connection on a MENTAL level rather than physical. Why is THAT your comfort zone and sexuality isn't? Since when?
Bc you don’t understand men and women are not the same smh we are not held to the same standards. It’s been this way for thousands of years If u don’t want to have sex that’s fine but the problem is when women lie about it to get resources from other men
I sympathize with incels ( both male and female) cause it can really takes a lot out of you emotionally. You constantly obsess over your lack of intimacy, your loneliness and that can warp your mind. It can lead you to some very dark places when you never had that form of intimacy you crave and seems that others so easily have access to. And sometimes it can lead to self-disgust and loathing, you can even begin to think you're unworthy of love.
old saying I remember from south africa goes: the child that doesn't receive the love of the village will burn it to feel its warmth. Something I think about alot when it comes to the often traumatic personal history of folks holding incel beliefs.
As a cancer survivor, I have met so many survivors and patients of all genders who are celibate. Whether it be because they stopped viewing themselves as desirable partners, because they don’t want to cause future grief or because they just do not have the mental or physical energy. Hearing so many deserving and lovely people say these things made me put myself out there again even though I was bald and fighting for my life. I ended up finding love in a former classmate who started visiting me in the hospital. We’ve been together now for 4 years. I may never be cancer free but that’s just something we deal with together.
as cancer survivor, i prefer lonlelyness cause i see tons of narcist runing in circle like ants scraping the leather off each other backs tons of unesential suffering imposed voluntarily, need more debt, better partner, more kids, bigger house. dont have time, all i have is time but i dont have time. gotta live 2 life at once. its other fault.. i prefer being alone at this point and not play the ant-race. cancer can change your life. burn injury was more potent tho. materialism have 0 value when your nervous system is begging for death at any cost right now
I relate, people. When I was a teen, entering puberty and the age when we start to fall in love and all that, I had a severe medical condition that stunted my sexual development. My voice didn't drop, I didn't grow. I was so thuroughly shamed by not just my peers, but also my own family, probably not inteded to deeply hurt me. But it did. When I was at the age of my first crush and all that, I cried myself to sleep multiple times a week, because I was so ashamed of my body. I thought I would probably kill myself before I reached 25. Some years later, I got medical treatment and it all sorted itself out. Now I look normal, have had interest shown by women. I work, I study, I go out. To people around me it's probably a mystery that I don't have a romantic life. But in truth - I have never experienced sex or mutual love. I'm 26 and a traumatized virgin. I have had chances to have sex, but honestly it terrified me, and I sabotaged the chances. I'm so so so afraid of someone being disgusted with me. I'm afraid of feeling that shame about myself again. Afraid of how my body might betray me, again, and someone finding me disgusting, again. It has nothing to do with women. In my early twenties I was falling a bit into the trap of thinking about most women as being sexually discriminatory and vain, and who never loved the men who deserved it (me), but I saw what I was doing and have since accepted that the wounds are in me. I feel unloveable, I'm afraid of letting anyone close, I'm afraid of what sex could do to me. So I just walk around, engaging in life, in what I find important, and hope that someday I will find someone. Someone patient, someone safe, so that I too can experience that part of life that seem to make it all worth it for so many.. You know, someone once told me that the most commonly stated deepest fear people have is "not being loved for who they are, before they die". That is it. I have great empathy for bitter incels, because underneath that is endless shame, fear and sadness. It's tragic, and I refuse to add to their shame. We are all just humans, with cynical sexualities and thrilling romantic capacities that want someone to see us and love us. To many, they have been so traumatized that letting someone in feels impossible. To me, romantic and sexual relationships have turned out to be the most difficult thing part of my life. Getting a masters degree, writing a book or pretty much anything feels easier and more achievable than having sex with someone feels. I want to heal my emotional wounds, and just hope I get there. We will if we persist :) Edit: Guys, I finally did it! I lost my virginity to a woman who I had built a strong platonic relationship with at work. A few months ago we started to develop mutual feelings for each other. I was afraid of expressing it or even hoping it would be something, so didn't invest much emotion in it, but a month ago she finally asked me out for a picnic. We held hands then, and slowly but surely she initiated more and more, and I let it happen. When she finally asked me to sleep with her in her bed, I knew I had to tell her about my past and body. I cried in her bed, was sure she would lose interest, but I didn't change a thing. She was wonderfully compassionate and understanding. We built so much trust and respect for each other that everything just flowed naturally from there. We are still learning to be completely vulnerable with each other, every time, and it has been wonderful. She has no idea what she has done for me. I'm so relieved to be here!
Same I had so much shame being a virgin til 28, so hard to bring it up with friends, family asking why I’m single every gathering, having to formulate vague comments to sound like I’ve done it before…finally did find someone patient and trustworthy to do it with and was like oh this is it? Wasted so long being in turmoil. But yeah dude good luck, romantic relationship and being vulnerable is tough. But everything is a skill that can be learned 💕
Whenever I crave for company, I don't really think about it in a romantic sense. I just want a friend I can chill with and talk about books or something without the need of being all 'touchy-feely'. Can anyone else relate? 😅
On youtube I found people who didnt identify as incel but as "forever alone". They seemed like genuinely nice people who have been bullied etc into a sad existence
Yes, I’ve seen them too. A lot of men which startled me at first, but male loneliness is an epidemic in and of itself which modern societies NEED to address (and quickly).
@@thereisnosanctuary6184 Female loneliness also gets no attention at all, since we're just stereotyped to be good at communication and having support networks.
Expecting one person to fulfill all your needs is a heavy and unfair burden. I think the cultures that value community (Jewish, Italian, Hispanic, etc.) don't feel the same loneliness that very individualist cultures do. We aren't just wanting sex, but the feeling of belonging and importance to other people, to know that other people value our existence on Earth. It's hard to get that from one person alone, which puts unnecessary pressure on all people when it comes to "finding love"
This is why friendships have always been much more valuable for me. You’re not expected to place all your eggs in one basket, you can have a whole group of friends and they all complete you in different ways. Some friends are good listeners, some offer intellectual talks, some are just funny and know how to cheer you up but all these spheres of your life are equally important to you. With a romantic partner, you’re expected to find this one soulmate, otherwise you’re uncommitted and that just confuses me. I mean, it sound sweet but how plausible it really is?
I agree. It’s a lot easier for individuals who come from close nit communities to feel fulfilled. There is no burden on their partners to be their EVERYTHING. I came from a close nit community then moved to the UK when I was a teenager. I don’t know anyone back home, so going back is not an option. I have never made close friendships since I arrived. Always felt lonely even though my family is here with me. I have an overwhelming desire have lasting companionship, community and sense of belonging. I have no clue where or how to start as an individual in a foreign country I now call home.
Sis this is a misconception. Although from the outside Hispanic (Latinx actually) communities look close knit (and they are!) Latinas actually have the highest suicide rate, it can be isolating to be part of a large group that is happy. Another great example that is misconstrued is Scandanavia, Denmark has an extremely high suicide rate, especially among "outsider" groups. If you're not in on the group you feel isolated and see everyone else is doing fine, it makes you more miserable....this is a complex issue I could talk all day.
Move to a small town isolated from the city, if you want a sense of community to make up for your lack of intimate relationships. There are things one can do to experience that even in the Western culture.
I think this is also a symptom of the whole “ You have love yourself first before loving someone else”. Like it’s perfectly okay to want be a better version of yourself (for you), but you can’t negate the fact the people help you learn more about who you are and what you like. It’s almost like this perfectionist view of being a better version of yourself is crippling people out of great experiences. I’m scared af for Gen Z and the future generations as we become more distant from each other…
"People help you learn more about who you are". Yes, well said. Having an avoidant personality disorder and social phobia, I have an low sense of self-worth, am insecure in myself and find it difficult to believe that others can love me for me and want to spend time with me. I used to self isolate a lot because of it, and still do to an extent. The only way to fix this, after therapy, is to spend time with people that I love (because I can still very much love people, even if I don't understand why they might love me). By showing up and showing my affection however right can, I receive the same and slowly learn that I am a fun person to be around, and I'm an ok person in terms of morality, so why wouldn't someone want to spend time with me. You need interactions to understand this about yourself if you've never had that when you were younger. So, the "loving yourself before you love someone else", although true, isn't always applicable. It is not linear. You can't always create self-love by yourself.
it all just feels like an extension of societal neuroticism. Everything must be perfect and pure and tailor made or its all useless and not worth doing
Gosh I feel like this is what it is, to put it simply, overthinking. 😂😂😭 we make the issues bigger than what it is and this only halts our progress. If we actually didn’t care about things being right we wouldn’t care how many times relationships failed etc we would just keep trying until we found that one. I understand fully that me and myself are a big reason I am how I am, I truly wanna fix that but a lot of it isn’t on me though, being judged and such is also a societal issue and those issues result in people feeling like this.
I'm 24, a virgin, and have never had a romantic relationship. I guess I would be considered an incel, even though I've never felt frustrated about the sex part? I've had the opportunity (one night stands and sex in general is very common and not taboo where I live), but I just never really felt that urge to "get it over with" as many people do. I definitely relate to what you're saying, even though I've never experienced any trauma regarding it. I would like to have a relationship, but I'm a little worried I won't be able to deliver on the sexual front... But I'd say my greatest worry is that I'll be alone with no friends. I'm already very bad at connecting with people and only have about three friends. I'm dreading the days when my parents die, cause I'm sure I'll be very much all by myself at that point.
Wow, I feel like I wrote most of this. I'm a 23 year old virgin. I also haven't started dating. It was a choice for me, until last year. I haven't been in an environment conducive for me to date. And I feel like I'm ready, but I don't have any friends. L I don't want to get into a romantic relationship when I don't even have friends because it'll put stress on the relationship. I honestly don't like the idea of sex, for various reasons including religious/spiritual and I think I'm slightly squeamish. I feel like an absolute weirdo, but it's so cool coming across some people I can relate with.
@@LeratoM98 I agree, having your spouse being your only friend could definitely be a problem as well! I feel the same with my friends, I'm always worried of coming across as clingy, since they know they're the only people I really hang around with. I really don't want them to feel responsible for my social life and therefore feel obligated to hang with me. So I do push them away a little bit, so that they won't get tired of me. That's probably part of why I have difficulties connecting with new people as well. I don't think you should feel weird for not liking the idea of sex, though! Thankfully, I've never felt any shame for my lack of interest in it. It's honestly very amusing when I tell people I'm still a virgin, they're always very shocked haha
@@alfhildr9678 That's understandable, I also won't want to be clingy. I'm on the introverted side, but not having a social life is negatively affecting me I think, so I'll push myself to get out there especially when I get the chance, like at uni. True. Lol me too, people act shocked when they found out I've never dated anyone and they're soo irked, it's like some scientific discovery they're trying to figure out, I find entertaining.
This frank discussion about sex and celibacy to me has many allegories to the conversation about alcohol and sobriety. When you are not partaking in something which is "de rigour" in society - provided of course that it stays within the realm of "harmless fun" which sadly in the case of both sex and alcohol is a very fine line - it is so easy to feel like a weird outsider.
Hurts to admit it but, I'm pretty much an incel too. People say that women can't be incels, and I understand that the barrier for sex is really low for us, but it's possible to have barriers that are internal and not visible. Personally, I don't feel sexual desire without romantic affection, so casual sex is off the table for me. Yet throughout my life I've been taught summarily that "no man will waster their time on someone who doesn't spread their legs by date three". Which has basically sucked all interest in dating out of me.
Stop believing this "no man will waster their time on someone who doesn't spread their legs by date three". That's not true, and if you haven't find someone who is different to that, even if you find it true by experience, you haven't tried in some place different than the usual. Night clubs are not for finding a partner, and not a good start to meet someone. Find friends, let them help you, ask for help, let them know your struggle into find someone, trust someone, don't force yourself to something you don't want, but keep trying with things that you haven't tried or seen, maybe you are just not searching in the place you need to.
I don't think you are an incel. I just think you are a romantic, and for you sex=love. You need a partner who is also romantic, but you haven't made a realistic search for The One. Yes, romance needs a little realism to help it along. You need to be a bit more focused in your search. Where do romantic men hang out? what they do? If you don't present yourself as an opportunity to such men where they are , as someone to make a connection with, then how will you be found by The One? If all the men in your vicinity are Jocks, it means you're unlikely to find romance there. You have go where such men are, and make connections. Make the effort to find them, and start networking. Take relationships slowly, and never spend time alone in private with someone until you feel happy to do so. Be prepared to say No, if you're not ready. And let them go if they resent that. It's like you have to calibrate your inner BS meter by practice, and more practice. Treat dating as practice, nothing more. You don't have to commit to anything you don't want. But, doing hang around waiting to be found. Get out and make connections human beings. With the kind of people you want to meet. Do your research, and start going there.
If you don’t feel sexual attraction without emotional connection, you’re demisexual, and that’s fine - tons of people are that way. Modern ‘dating’ apps have ruined dating and when a significant amount of people are on them solely for hookups it makes things that much more challenging. The culture is broken.
@MsZoomification 100% this. There are men who will wait forever, honestly they're not all dogs! I was never attracted to dogs anyway!! (& who the hell is?!) It takes me months, but it doesn't mean I'm not sexual...just means you respect your boundaries and don't want to be used, that's just being smart. Casual sex is for some people but it's honestly not even as common as they've lead you to believe. The few women I know who do that I know end up regretting it or hate themselves for it.
I met a guy in college who chaged my entire perception of what an incel is. He wasn't bad looking but he was charming as hell and the thing is that he was actually good with women, we always teased him cause everyone thought he was a player cause he always had girls around him. One night I was talking about the subject and he confesses that even though he got to fool around with several girls he never actually got to third base with them, my first thought is that he was gay or something but he explained that he just didn't feel worthy of it, like his sense of self worth repressed him. I actually feel bad for him and hope he gets the helps he needs.
incel stands for involuntary celibate. In other words: women find you repulsive and would not entertain a physical/romantic relationship with said individual. How is this guy considered an incel if he anxious about sleeping with women that find him attractive and are willing to sleep with him? You should look up the definitions of words before start using them/labeling people with. You come across as ignorant.
Ok let's clear this up, this is to no one in particular I've just been getting notifications about this comment and thought I would expand on it Incel refers to two things "involuntary" which means something done unwillingly and "celibate" which means to abstain from sex (emphasis on sex). Now if your definition of incel is an ugly dude who's a recluse from society and has no interaction with women then that's fine. What I brought into the conversation was an example of a dude who seemingly had everything going for him and whether it was because of trauma or mental problems it literally made him involuntarily turn down sex from women who were into him. Now if you don't get the trauma angle then watch the video again.
i relate a lot with this video. Since i was 18 i felt the preasure for not being sexually active or even having a relationship, when all of my friends were in one. I have always been the single one. I am 32 now, and the idea of even having a romantic partner is completely absurd for me. I dont have any hope anymore. Sometimes i really feel like something is broken inside of me, something is wrong, or i was just born unable to connect with other human being. It is really sad.
yeah it's not good when aversion & growing disgust is increased by unresolved anger. you start to think you are maybe an animal or some droid from another dimension. and ANY talk about "g_d" PFFFT forget about i🙄t. they are so rude arrogant & ready to shove it in your face that if you don't believe you've committed some horrible crime against them. whatever 😒
I've been without a partner despite wishing for one for a while, due to a number of reasons (being gay in a rural area, being socially awkward, having my share of issues), however I would never call myself an incel, and I would take offense at being called such. The word has too much a negative connotation in my eyes now no matter its original intended meaning, and those we commonly refer to as incels are not people I'd ever want to be associated with.
I think it’s clear that Incel is now a synonym for this misogynistic online cult of self hate and self pity. There is plenty of ppl out there who don’t have sex and are lonely but are not hating on other humans
So, in effect, you’re doing the same thing to them that you hate them for doing to others. It’s important to understand that Incels are not naturally angry people. They became that way because they are socially ostracized. Which, I might point out, is what you implied in your post.
The issue with incels you fail to see, is they called themselves such to group themselves on an issue well before becoming bitter. To them, they grew angrier while failing to solve their problems while people like you, most likely, saw them as angry by default and then joined a group about their anger. There was a literal story about a bitter incel who got sex from a girl who was paid by his friends in hope it would stop him from being bitter, and it did. He sumed it up as thinking he was falling behind his friends in experiences, be left out, and abandoned eventually. They said 2 years later after being an angry incel for 3, he got married. And its never one's responsibility that others don't like them. Hate for people exist regardless everywhere. The only solution from that type of comment is to control your partner, not exactly a smart argument.
@@furyberserk So are you saying that it's everybody's else's fault if a lot of them became bitter and hateful? That girls should give them some just to make them feel better? And I'm not really sure what you mean that the only solution is to control your partner..
"We practice "social monogamy" ... in theory" lol! Yeppp! As a sexologist, I often remind people that being celibate doesn't mean you're not whole. We all need other people in our lives, nobody can do this sh*t alone. But, the pressure to put it all in romantic relationships is slowly making us more and more alone. The hierarchisation and how transactionnal we make our relationship kills them from the start, I think. We can't really be vulnerable if we have strict but unclear ways to define our relationships.
Friendships are so much more important to your wellbeing of people would put in the same amount of energy in building and maintaining friendships instead of finding romantic love people would’ve be way less lonely (and would probably also find more romantic love)
@@Laura-gd4ku absolutely. Romantic love like that and the thoughts that our partners have to fulfill al of our needs puts on so much pressure on everyone. Let's trust our partners in their ability to grow and help them grow instead of controlling what scares us.
@@saml.purecats4695 Yes and I think we shoul all aspire to have more (or deeper) friendships and make that a lifegoal instead of focussing only on romantic love. If romantic love comes into our life thats a wonderful thing, but we are complete without it!
Thanks for this vulnerability and compassion. I'm now in my 30s and still a virgin-I've always struggled with beauty, and having certain deformities and blemishes in the gay world has not helped at all. For a time I could ignore it, but as soon as I began to fall in love it became unavoidable. It's SO hard to describe the type of pain and loneliness that comes from not once receiving attention, and feeling in your bones that you're unlovable, undesirable. The bed will always be empty, and the hand untouched. So the mind says, anyway.
What's even more difficult is if these feelings of undesirability are socially reinforced, more so in the gay world. If you don't look a certain way, you're done. It scared me in the beginning that maybe this is what induced my aromanticism, but at this point poverty and depression has messed me up so much I can't worry about it anymore. And because I never really felt romantic attraction in the first place, maybe I can readjust my strategy to earning enough to pay for some adult fun time. I am so tired of punishing my body that WON'T CHANGE to a certain shape just to get some meat in me. I would rather just pay for it than destroy my body and mind.
I think this video is part of a conversation that definitely needs to be had. I am a 22 year old man who seems to have all of the characteristics of an incel minus the bitterness and misogyny. I have never had a girlfriend, had sex or even so much as been on a date or held hands with a girl. I feel like people like me are becoming more common in a society where people are able to completely alienate themselves socially. This is definitely spurred on by the endless novelty of things like the internet, videogames and pornography none of which am I opposed to in principle, but I see real danger in overindulging in as I often do. I feel like the easy access to all of these things during adolescence allows kids like me who always felt like outcasts to sidestep the most important periods of our social development by allowing us to immerse ourselves in idealized fantasies instead of actually confronting our real problems. It is very hard to try and learn the ins and outs of dating and romance as an adult though, because the only people who even offer actionable advice for young men are pickup artists who, while sometimes offering advice that works, are mostly full of shit. Even when the advice they give works, it only works for certain people, whose primary goal is casual sex. For me sex without a romantic relationship seems like something that while fun, would quickly begin to feel empty and meaningless. That said, a life full of depression and nihilism has lead me to believe that most things in life are empty and meaningless and that love is one of the only things that feels real at all. I became a romantic as a survival mechanism, because if love and romance aren't just real thing, but something I will eventually have, then I see few other things that are worth living for.
I find a lot of these expectations and ideas about romantic relationships and losing virginity to be half-understood. Some data suggests that 3/10 people never had a romantic relationship or lost virginity. That makes them labeling them with weird or outlier status incorrect from a statistical standpoint. Sure it’s not the average situation, but you can’t walk down the street without at least that proportion of passerby having a chance of possessing those labels. That’s not something to sneer at.
@@RlRmPd It's just hard not to get cynical when you see happy couples walking past you all the time wherever you go, and you don't even know how to take the first steps to get to that. When you talk to these people they often try to gaslight you, saying things like 'it's not a big deal' or that you should just settle for someone that you're not very attracted to. It's very condescending. There's no shortage of beautiful women with great personalities in the world so who are they to tell me what I can't have.
@@Rexcarsalot Thing is, you actually have to do something about it, if it bothers you. I also had my first kiss, first time holding hands, first sex etc. with 21 years old. And I did work my ass off to find a boyfriend at 21. I challenged myself everyday to work out, approach men, ask them out, deal with rejection and heart break AND keep fighting. I'm now in a happy relationship for 2 years and really am feeling thankful and a great attachment. I did get a lot more tough, going through being suicidal to pushing myself to get what I want although having heartbreaks and feeling lonely. Just like you who doesn't necessarily feel happy or empathetic about a couple's happiness, the couple isn't necessarily nice or empathetic towards your situation. However, it's for you to decide how badly you want to change your situation or if you want to change something at all. I wish you good luck. You have written a very accurate comment.
It's nice reading these comments of people who can self-identify has incels, but not the internet's trope of the bitter, misogynistic male incel (or femcel).
I used to jokingly tell people "I'm not sure if I'm asexual or just not over growing up autistic and catholic", until I realized that I really didn't know. I spent many years getting really good at nurturing friendships, and currently have several close friendships which are a really fulfilling part of my life that meet many of my emotional and social needs. I didn't know how to get the information and guidance which I had needed to get to where I am in friendships for sexual and romantic relationships. I think people sometimes underestimate how difficult it can be to figure out how to navigate relationships of any kind when your experiences or way of communicating are even slightly outside of what is considered normal. I reached a point a while ago where one of my friendships started feeling more like a partnership to both of us (I call them my companion). Within the context of that companionship, I was able to ask the kinds of questions I needed to understand sexual relationships in a way which made sense to me. I came to understand that I just really didn't have a lot of the sexual needs that most people have, and I don't find the idea of seeking mutual sexual gratification desirable. I do have a lot of needs which people usually only meet within sexual relationships - physical affection, emotional intimacy, etc. My companion is polyamorous, and I'd become really comfortable and familiar with that way of understanding relationships over our many years of friendship. Actually, many of my friends are polyamorous - I've found them to be more able and willing to be emotionally intimate and physically affectionate outside of amorous relationships, and that's part of why I find myself so fulfilled by my friendships. The idea of having to find one person who could fulfill most of my needs and whose needs I could mostly fulfill seems far-fetched and undesirable to me, and the idea of feeling secure in a relationship without having some sense of reciprocal ownership seems much less so, perhaps because I understand relationships primarily through my experiences of friendships. Anyhow, I guess I just wanted to write into the void that disability can make relationships of all kinds hard and it's often overlooked, and that loving friendships are really great and also often dismissed. Maybe someone will read this and feel less alone. I know I do imagining someone doing so :) I'll leave you with the passage from which we got the term "companion": "There is a part of us which from childhood is absolutely alone. When we fall in love we imagine we have found an ultimate assuagement of loneliness. This is not so. In a true marriage or a near friendship what in fact is found is a companion in loneliness." - qfp.quaker.org.uk/passage/22-05/
Kinda crazy seeing such a positive enviroment in the comments. Whenever I talk about this I get a mixed response of insults and confusion. For the first time, I'm somewhat comforted on the topic. It's like everyone is playing a game, but I'm the only one who does'nt know how to play. As a man, opening up about this is the quickest way to get people to dislike you. It's the lowest of the low to fail sexually. It disgusts them. They label you instantly. Nobody wants to help either. Mention loneliness and people practically run away. Maybe it's the same for women, but unfortunetly, I don't see it. It seems either rare or (judging by the comments) hidden. I'll never forget how confused my dad was when I asked for help. It seemed like I was asking how to breath. By the end he probably figured he made a dud. That's the same idea people get when you mention it. Failure, at the most basic level: animal.
Yea man.. they tell you to just do this and that but it isn’t as easy as they expect it to be, I actually want it to work if I didn’t care I could easily just keep trying to talk to women for it to all just fail couple months down the line. Shit if it even gets that far, Im an attractive guy I get all the validation and all of that but I am just not in a good situation, and Ik that it would cause me to get judged. Im 21 never worked a real job, barely can drive, still stays with my people I don’t have my own room. It’s just so much shit. But wen I go out in the world people wouldn’t expect the half. They judge me based off how I look, they think I’m just this super player guy and I get laid all the time but in reality I only had sex a couple times and I been in a couple relationships. When I tell them that they either don’t believe me or they tell themselves something must be wrong with me. Idk I just feel like I’m too good for this world sometimes, I just wanna meet a whole bunch of people like myself someone really needs to create an outlet for people dealing with stuff like this to connect and engage with eachother. I’m starting to think that’s the only way we’d be happy, finding like minded people who understands eachothers boundaries and are willing to work with eachother free of judgement. That’s all I desire….
Hey Ive confided in female friends about this before and theyve always been supportive, trying to build up my confidence so yes some people are assholes but that just means you should get to know more people to find the good ones and weed out the bad ones
So glad someone is finally acknowledging this reality. I also researched the history of incels long ago because I felt so alone in my experience but also knew that the misogyny and self-loathing of incels/femcels didn't apply to me. Though I too have experienced sexual trauma and can relate to the awkwardness of being a sexual/romantic novice so to speak, TBH even if I had a perfect upbringing, I think I'd still be in the same boat. I'm 31, and I swear I've always been virtually "invisible" or just generally undesirable when it comes to romantic/sexual relationships. I can count on one hand the few times in life anyone has expressed interest, and still nothing came of it. Other than that, I seem to either go unnoticed or preemptively told that I'm not wanted (the nerve of some ppl smh). Now after developing a disability that makes me even more undesirable, I'm starting to wonder if I should just make peace with being alone and focus on my career, health, and the few (platonic) relationships I do have. Thanks for being willing to self-reflect, which ultimately allowed you to create a cathartic moment for all of us lol. Literally no one else I know can understand this experience, so it feels like a waste of time talking about it. At least now I've shouted into the internet void lol.
Thank you for not falling into the internet incel/femcel hole despite being involuntary celibate. Loneliness is a feeling people have nowadays. Its okay to have them and its okay to not want them without thinking everyone around is somehow inferior.
As a 30 year old bi guy its ALWAYS wild to see how common these experiences are among women. Idk why but a part of me just assumes that all women have some kind of a sex life and romantic experiences.
I'm 33. As a teenager, I wasn't attracted to the boys in my school. I had friends but at the time I had never felt sexy or sexual. Then in my early 20s, I dated a little but would cut them off when it got to the point where they wanted to take the next step. I was celibate because of my religion but naturally, I was a late bloomer sexually. When I was 27 I started feeling like I needed to have a companion to grow and build with. I was very busy though. I was involved in 2 ministries at my church( I'm a guitarist and was also a youth leader) and I was busy in school. I was starting to feel like I needed to slow down and focus on what I wanted for myself in my personal life. Long story short, I ended up getting married the very next year. It's been 5 years since I've been married and I must say that it's a good feeling knowing that you have someone that will look out for you and a companion to do things with. My advice to those who are wanting a life partner, I would say that you just be patient and don't give up hope. I never had the defeated mindset that I would never find someone. I believe that when you put negative things in the atmosphere, it blocks your blessings.
I really appreciate this comment. I was just honestly curious as to how you see disability factoring into this hope that you mention? Some of us need round the clock care and can't work or easily go out and find people. I know there are examples of people who have done it, but they are very much the exception and not the rule. I even had a member of my own family do it back in the 1800s, but her husband was also a rich European nobleman. Thanks so much! Best of luck in your marriage and I hope you have many more years to come.
@@Kneekneee good ideas, good ideas. That just seems kind of inorganic, like in my opinion you should just come about naturally and if it doesn't that's also okay. Thanks for your reply, though, I appreciate it. Really thought-provoking comment! 😁
@@ACrownofFlowers True but waiting around for some to "appear" seems a bit unrealistic in your circumstances. Family/Friends gatherings or parties where people mingle and connect you with mutual friends seems more promising. Even if you don't find your wife, you may find a life long friendship.
I definitely am involuntarily celebate, due to being disabled and living in a remote location, but I don’t mind it, honestly. I had a depressive episode a few years back where I was able to unpack everything and sort it out, and coming close to organ failure last year really puts things in perspective. I haven’t given up on finding a life and sexual partner, but I don’t achingly long for one. I know I’ll find someone someday, because I’m worthy of it, and until I do, I’ll work on myself to be as stable and healthy as possible so I can pursue opportunities when they come along 💕 seeing my sister find a perfect partner definitely gives me hope that I’ll find someone just as good for me one day, so I know it’s possible.
23 and a virgin. Am i afraid of emotional (let alone physical intimacy) yes. Cause if we cannot accept and tolerate ourselves, how the hell is anyone going to completely accept us in order to get to that level of intimacy and care? *Sex does not mean intimacy necessarily and you do you mates. All i am saying is... We exist and we are in need of company. And also... We existed pre pandemic (that felt important to add)
Cause if we cannot accept and tolerate ourselves, how the hell is anyone going to completely accept us in order to get to that level of intimacy and care? We often find attractive the faults of others. Many times more that the attractive traits that society classify as standards.
Would you rather drown or swim? You will have to get your feet wet someday. If you learn to swim, you have a chance of survival. Staying on dry land is an option, but a hollow one. Are you prepared to be the person you are looking for? Can you make that a priority in your life? The process matters more than the destination in this. Going through the process of acquiring the skills and traits we are looking in a partner is the most constructive way to grow into being ready and available for an intimate relationship. This is why Thought is necessary but not sufficient. Action is required.
Yes I just feel this is a pervasive notion but wrong. I can tell you I come from an arranged marriage culture, many people feel this way entering the relationship.how could you not when dealing with life. But In the act of trying to make a healthy relationship it is very healing.
The volume of trauma and introspection in this comment section is stunning. How bad the emotional front has gotten for our society is... I don't think it's exaggeration to call it a crisis. Thank you for the honesty and vulnerability that have gotten this big ball rolling. I had no idea this many people were in a similar boat to myself.
finally i can relate to someone on this topic, sometimes i wish i could go back to early teenhood to live out sexuality at a time when i was young and stupid and less cautious and hesitant, but even back then i was so scared about it. the dream to simply be sexual, without dark connotations.
I'm 21, I've never had a girlfriend, I'm not that bad looking that I can't get anyone, I'm also fit, currently building a physique for the mental health benefits. The thing is, I'm very reserved, and that's a characteristic that I find very attractive in girls, someone who doesn't care about Instagram like it's a game and spends their time taking pictures in front of a mirror, stuff like that is a turn off for me. With that said, I do find many girls attractive, but it's purely visual, it's very rare for me to find someone who I'm actually attracted to, who I really think about and wanna spend time with, and when that happens, what I would like is the emotional connection, not the sexual connection, I'm still a virgin and I'm kind of afraid of that type of intimacy (of course, it would come eventually). I hate hookup culture, I don't feel the need to lose my virginity and just have sex for the sake of having sex, I just don't really care about it, I want shit to have meaning, I want some feeling, something to make me feel alive, like I'm worth something to someone in that sense. I'd love to go on trips, see beautiful sights, share music, movies, experiences with someone that I love and feel loved back, that's all I actually want, and yet, it's just so hard find it.
I barely know anyone who is heavy into instagram and selfies and stuff. I think there's way more of a stereotype that women are into that stuff than is true in average.
I’m 21 as well bro, I’ve did the sex thing just to do it and truly it doesn’t really fill any void, I watch people around me who have relationships and that’s the type of love I desire, I’m attractive but I’m reserved as well but that barrier can be broken it’s just yk in todays age nobody is willing to take that time out to do all of that, they’d rather judge u and move on. I’ve had relationships n all of this before but this was in my school years, out Of school is a whole different ball game for sure. I don’t have a job I still stay with my people no car it’s like I have the life majority of the people in this society would scold at, that’s why I just don’t get that close to ppl. All of my friends have girlfriends my brother has a girl I live with my mom and my brother’s dad and their married.. so all I’m around is couples and it just makes me feel worse. I honestly don’t know what to do and feel like maybe I will die alone who knows. But I’m just trying to better myself and get my life together hopefully everything else falls into place even tho I doubt that I’d just magically make anything better
This video resonated with me a lot. I'm a woman in my mid twenties, and I have autism and adhd, meaning I've never really enjoyed the company of people. I would love to have loving romantic and sexual relationships with others. I daydream about it, write about it in my stories, but I have horrendous social anxiety. I'm scared of getting hurt, and I'm scared of imposing my difficulties on another and hurting them. I know that the models of perfect love we see on tv and in media aren't necessarily realistic, but it's easy to feel lonely and left out, even when there isn't a pandemic on.
I became celibate after a traumatic experience. I’m a single parent and live far away from my support system. I’ve never felt more lonely or invisible in my life, I’ve also never experienced the kind of peace and stability like I do now.
If you experience peace and stability, you are not lonely or are not invisible. If doesn't have a neggative effect, then you are not there and that's fine, keep up with your life and have a peacefull happy one.
i get this to a core. Most toxicity is cut out of my life. Things are at a standstill where i can breathe for the first time ever and its lonly asf but its chill. I could die happy like this tho so I wouldn't trade it for the world.
I feel like an incel sometimes bc when I think about my appearance and personality and past experiences I can see that I am not someone most people would be sexually attracted to bc I am a black woman and considered the complete opposite of beauty by western society, but at the same time I have to consider that I am very young (20) and in the midst of the pandemi* have not had much opportunity to meet potential partners. I also think it’s more voluntary than involuntary on my part because I think if I really really wanted to be intimate w someone I could just get on some dating app and there will be many people who just want to have s*x but that isn’t what I am comfortable with and I know I wouldn’t be happy w it. I do think I am an incel in the sense of romantic intimacy though, I feel it’s a lot harder for black women/afab people to find healthy partnerships
I very much feel the same way. Especially on being involuntarily celibate. As embarrassing as it is to admit, I've been so eager to have sex since my teens and I'm 21 yr old virgin simply because it's proven difficult to find people who are attracted to me as I am to them. And not living up to societal beauty standards doesn't help either.
I can relate to you, i'm a 21 year old black heterossexual woman and I also find it hard to build a meaningful connection because most of the people I like don't feel the same way, just like most of the people that like me I don't feel the same. Since I spent alot of time "obssessing" about finding the perfect partner I decided to take this year to myself and just focus on my life and some personal issues that I have because those may also be a reason why I failed in building a connection even when I had the chance to but was to afraid to go further and possibly face rejection. My advice to you is to not despair and most importantly don't listen to societies opinions, even if the circumstances seem that they are against us we are worthy of love and we will find it in the right places, wether is from family, friends, hobbies or within ourselfs, there is so much more out there than romantic love even if we crave it, and learning how to live our lifes thinking of the possibility of not having it but still being okay with that situation is truly powerful.
@@CrazyGzay you’re doing your job as a female with sexual selection. On the surface it seems as if it’s just about ""connecting"" with people but it’s natural selection.
I think it’s worth being careful with this, because “incel” is an inherently self-victimizing label. Yes, absolutely people have been through external trauma and it is a difficult process to deal with that. I would be surprised if most of the misogynistic “incels” aren’t traumatized in one way or another as well… but dealing with that I think requires a process of retelling your internal story in more positive ways. To me, applying “incel” to yourself yields control of your own life in a way that may not be productive. It could be that it is helpful for a time, but I would never want to get stuck there.
It's often difficult to realice that there are people who struggle with loneliness or touch the theme, because that therm is used as label to censorship their opinions or argument of someone who dissagrees with something, when comes into the narrative of the experience of someone with a different life than the usual romantic experience lifestyle, it's true that there are people who are not a partner choice from anyone (if this comes from a intrinsec characteristic, disability, personality traits, different circunstances is often dismiss). It's being used as a invalidating label the same as the therm "virgin" often comes with the identity of the geeky or nerdy guys/girls. That label is not only a bad choice of words, but not good for the conversations that we need to have. This times the society have a real problem with loliness, a silent pandemic with too many people struggle, and it's an issue that not only the elder or disabled struggle, it's a big hard problem for today society. Depression, suicide, stress and more people devoid of meaning and meaningful connections, it's affecting to a large group of the population anywhere, and they come from the same loneliness. One single label, stops us talking about this.
I mean, trauma is such a broad term here that it depends what your trauma is. If it's someone who's using it to describe feeling like an outcast/being bullied and using that to justify being a misogynistic rapey asshole, that's not ok. But that's a big difference to say, a woman who's voluntarily incelibate because they have trauma from being raped, and now can't trust someone to be partners with, and who hasn't become a rapey asshole.
@@red_velvetcake1759 Yes, trauma is not an excuse for adults to treat others poorly. It’s a framework you can use to help understand people, or even groups of people as sociology does, but adults are generally responsible for their behavior individually. Even in your analysis, you say “voluntarily”, which I am contending is more empowering than saying “my feelings make me celibate, it is involuntary”. What I am suggesting is that using the involuntary self-description is inherently disempowering*. That’s all. *For either group
Respect to you for this. Can't imagine what it took to voice this to thousands, but I hope u spoke for some of them. Hopefully this doesn't send u down a rabbit hole like me, but the manosphere would have u believing every woman out here is getting more attention and options than they would know what to deal with. This video is a quite a bit more realistic to people's struggles, less black and white
You've gotten a lot of respect from me for going basically going: ''I thought and said X before and upon hearing a different view point and doing research and investigating it further I believe something different now.'' Bravo, I think that shows real humility.
I'm disabled and this came up in my recommended and I just wanted to say that disability, especially if you're disability is visible in any way often makes it hard for people to even consider you a sexual being, so while I'm not a virgin, I can say that intimacy is not something that happens often for me or other disabled people.
@@Frederique41 completely agree. I wish that people were more open-minded, but you can't really force anyone to be attracted to you in that way. Like we can't lie that it's mostly because of cultural reasons that people feel that way, but of course intimacy is something so personal that it doesn't make sense to get mad over it. We should still have reasonable standards. I hope you are able to find someone.
as someone who has been married for 10 years, I have said many times that if by happenstance, I had not met my husband at a very young age, I would have ended up alone, and its a VERY interesting thing to navigate in a marriage to feel these ways, but also to love someone very deeply and intimately, but intimacy is also not always sex either. And thats one of the biggest things that have helped us to navigate.
Love your fresh take on incels. We are not all entitled misogynists living in our parents basements! We're just people that (for one reason or another) find the cultural expectations around sex crippling. I'm also intrigued by the term "voluntarily celibate" (aka "volcel"), which means to choose to give up sex for a defined or undefined length of time. However, not all of us have as much control over our loneliness and/or sexual traumas, so the term can be misleading for some.
I've been volcel my whole life as a trans person with really strong gender dysphoria. I don't have control over my loneliness or sexual trauma, the trauma of being sexualized as the wrong gender was just way stronger than those other feelings. I've always felt that I'd rather die that be seen as the sexual object society expects me to be.
@@theemperiumofkek1362 "If you're not a misogynist, you're not an incel you're a failed simp" Translation: I don't want to have to admit that men can be virgins for reasons that have nothing to do with misogyny, so I'm going to redefine the problem away.
Even though I’m in a committed relationship with another woman- just wanted to comment to say loneliness finds us all, and your videos are a great comfort, it’s lovely to see so much solidarity here 💜
I'm a woman who used to be extremely ugly in an unorthodox way which resulted in people not just rejecting me as a potential partner but persecute me for my natural looks. Lucky for me, I wasn't interested in dating any of the troglodytes who surrounded me at the time but on the other hand it made me believe that men must be some primitive dumb apes who I have no will to please. For a long time I honestly had no idea there exist decent men out there, it was a baffling concept. Over time I learned how to change my looks. Turns out all of my issues were tied to dangerous genetic issues which had to be treated anyways. At some point I started looking pretty but I was so used to men being not interested in me (or aggressive) that I had a hard time understanding what to do with situations when they suddenly liked me. I was never even thinking about being with anyone because it seemed like such a bizarre concept that I didn't see the point in wasting my time thinking about romance. Eventually, I found love of my life completely by accident without looking for it but it took a long time for me to get used to someone liking me and I would often sabotage this relationship because of all the trauma from years of persecution. Luckily, it survived but I do understand incels nowadays. I can't justify those who hate all women because they feel entitled to sex but I understand how they became this way. I never started hating men because I felt entitled to sex. It was always completely reasonable to me that people wouldn't want to be with me. But bullying and persecution are things I expected people to NOT do and that's where my grudge lied.
Thank you. I feel validated. I don’t hate women. I don’t hate anyone. I feel no entitlement to anyone’s time. I just find it hard to connect. So hard. And I don’t like being alone so I probably come off as desperate. And there probably is a sense of desperation. I’ve had a lot of family issues and I feel like no one could want me. In any sense. But I just want to connect and feel human but idk how to do it with my experiences. Or lack there of.
for me I just don’t understand how to put aside all the issues I have to date somebody. when I think about trusting anybody, I am actually terrified. I have so many insecurities I don’t even know how I could be with somebody. and suffering with pretty bad anxiety too is like the icing on the cake lmao. I think I’m just supposed to be alone :(
Hey, I read your comment and I think part of the problem here is that you aren’t meant to “put aside all the issues you have” to date somebody; rather, you pursue dating as someone aware of your issues and you try to work through them as they come up. I am by no means a relationship expert and I struggle much in the same ways that you describe, so this perspective purely comes from what I’ve learned and experienced thus far. But I think ultimately we can’t really compartmentalize ourselves when it comes to relationships, especially relationships that have some sort of intimacy interwoven into the dynamic. More than anything, I think, it isn’t about being a perfect version of ourselves prior to entering any relationship, but in giving ourselves permission to be seen and loved and accepted as the person we are right now, and allowing ourselves the possibility to be open to such care from another human being. I really feel that this is what holds so many of us back, that we do not feel lovable as is. But you *are* lovable, right now, as you currently are, and you don’t have to deny yourself of the potential to receive that love if you don’t want to. I think truly acknowledging this can be one of the most difficult things to do. I definitely struggle with this all too.
Agreed. Starting to think I’m supposed to be alone too . I’d like to have a loving relationship but life’s so hard and looking so bleak with Covid & all the social isolation. Society isn’t happy anymore at this point. And a physical relationship is the catalyst to one thing; reproduction. And why bring an innocent little baby into a world that we’re all so unhappy in?? It’s time to love, but it’s not a time for reproduction. In my opinion men and women should still date and still share intimacy weather physically, spiritually or both. But don’t bring a baby into this mess.. not now
i think i''m an incel/femcel because my whole life i had been taught that guys mostly just want sex from me. i'm pretty reserved and was quiet when i went into college, and there were a few guys who were interested in me. but because of my personality and what i had been taught i thought that they only wanted to hookup, which i think was true with a few of them. but there was one who liked me a lot, and i sorta regret not doing more. we had a lot of the same personality traits and he really wanted to get to know me, but he wasn't attractive to me at all which was the main reason i never took it further. i regret it now because i'm almost 23 and have never explored romance/intimacy. tbh i don't think it would have worked well in college since i was so self-centered and still working through trauma. i'm thinking back to college, where i had just started making my first new friends since MIDDLE SCHOOL. i had the same friends from middle school throughout high school. i was just starting to figure out how to make friends, so the thought of being in a relationship never even crossed my mind. i still don't have the whole friend thing figured out, but luckily i now know the red flags and am a lot less anxious when talking to new people.
Hi, frogs and flowers, it seems you have come a long way during the course of your life. I have been a late bloomer when it comes to the whole "making contact", "gang of friends", "social circles", "trusting people" and "finding intimacy" thing. The concept of "dates" still eludes me. I am an introvert, I prefer 1:1 or small number get-to-gethers over clubs & parties, I don't like sharing personal emotions and intimate experiences in public, I am very shy and feel awkward when it comes to first confessing/showing romantic feelings or sexual desire. For years and years I thought I'd be an eternal failure at it, I first confessed love to somebody in my last teenage year and remained a sexual virgin into my early twenties. Having sex, while being a beautiful experience for me, didn't change much about my relationship issues, though. I have hence had only two intimate relationships, both break-ups ultimately meant being the one left behind. But if I have learned one thing from all the people I have met in more than four decades, it is that it's never too late to find an intimate and meaningful connection to another human being - and sex isn't key to that (sometimes does not even have to take a big part in it). I now have a few good friends (could be more; or rather from more varied walks of life...), two or three special friends who sort of "get" me and whom I deeply care about, and while still feeling lonely quite often for lack of cuddling (and only occasionally for not having someone to share erotic intimacy with) I am blessed with a better understanding and care about myself now than I used to. When it came to sex, contrary to my anxieties beforehand, things just came naturally and became fulfilling even without any/much experience in that regard. I attribute it to the right people at the right time willing to share these moments with me. They did help in bonding, but a bond based merely in sex isn't worth much, and I am happy that I never fell for that widespread misconception. In short: "Virgin" & "incel" are abstract social constructs that need not define you in any concrete way regarding personality or self-worth or with respect to what you can contribute to the well-being of yourself or other human beings. All the best to you!
In the same boat with making my first friends since middle school in college (am in college right now). Even doing that is extremely difficult for me, so I greatly envy people who seem to be able to pursue romance and sex so easily. I feel like I have so many hurdles to get over compared to other people who had experiences, made friends, got out there into the world in this early to mid teens. I'm also in the same boat with getting less anxious talking to people, discovering boundaries and red flags, etc. Hope everything works out for you, I can relate to so much of this.
@@TheReMorseCode You will be fine, just stay open-minded to what/whom-ever might come your way, and eventually you will connect to someone who feels just right at the right time and place. It might not last forever, but it might help you find out some more things about yourself. Then again, that's always something you can also do on your own. Interpersonal experience just speeds things up, and even that only if you fall in with the right type of person for you.
I've ID'ed as asexual all my life and always thought friendships would be enough for me, but as my friends have less and less time for people they don't live with, and as transition has made me more okay with my physical body, I've been wondering if its possible for me to have romantic relationships. I've always been good at being alone and finding hobbies to entertain myself, but the isolation caused by the panorama has caused a loneliness I've never felt before and I'm not sure how to deal with it. I've had to question a lot of the things I thought I knew about myself.
I am an elementary teacher trying to switch over to nursing. I know I need to focus on my studies and in order to pay for it, I want to go into the military. I have no time for relationships and yet I don't want to be alone either. It absolutely sucks like this and now that I just turned 30 I'm afraid I'll never get married or start a family even though the whole reason why I'm going into nursing and eventually a Nurse Practioner is to support a family and be the perfect father figure. I'm afraid, I don't like being alone and wish for companionship but it is encouraging I'm not the only person who is going through this. Thank you for your message and advice.
I've kind of admitted to myself that i could consider myself an incel. What irritates me most is the assumption men make, when i express my insecurities over this issue. Especially the assumption that ALL women can have men's attention served to them on a silver platter when it hasn't been the reality in my case... and it only happens if you're a conventionally attractive woman. I never get any attention, and if i do its purely sexual. They use me for a quick feeling of euphoria, and when that fades, i get dumped and it's like nothing ever happened. Although this technically doesn't make me a celibate, the lack of intimacy and long term desire certainly make me feel very unwanted and unlovable. I keep hoping this changes, but I feel like I've already resigned myself a life of feeling like this.
I get that, Fran. Just having sex when you want so much more does not satisfy me either, so I stopped having it. I'm in a similar situation. No matter how compatible I think we are or how optimistic I am, they lose interest or aren't looking for anything more. When I was young, I had this vision in my head of the perfect partner and starting a family. I've met people who've fit that vision, but it never worked out with them or anyone else. Never more than a month.
Unfortunately, that’s the outcome of reducing sex to a commodity. I know people don’t like to hear this, but there was a reason societies always placed limits on sex. It isn’t just meaningless fun. It isn’t just a biological process. Sex without intimacy is destructive. Especially to those who wish for intimacy. The simple truth is that the casual sex that was pushed for the past 50 years has been an absolute disaster for everyone but the top 20% of high value men. They are having a great time. For everyone else, it has destroyed intimacy, wrecked families, and left people adrift struggling with the pain, fear, and loneliness. I truly do empathize with women in this regard. I was fortunate enough to be raised in a religious home, and I met a religious woman through church. There, it is still expected for men to respect women. I knew if I ever wanted to have sex with this woman, I would have to make an emotional and spiritual connection with her first. Had she simply given me sex instantly, then I would have had no reason to do the hard work of bettering myself to attract her. But those outside the dwindling religious communities have to deal with a culture that demands instant gratification and celebrates selfish, narcissistic people.
@@TheSpicyLeg I'm not religious anymore but I have been thinking about the drawbacks of modern society. We're producing fewer and fewer men that women actually want, and fewer and fewer women that men can actually find companionship and love with. Nothing has changed for men that are super rich, or are perceived as high-value. They will always be able to secure a wife, if not real love. Athletes are a good example. They're fit, rich, a bit famous, masculine, and their wives are often gorgeous, feminine, and quickly become mothers. Those are probably the most appealing men in the general population. Charisma and intelligence might not be great, but it's the female version of marrying a supermodel that likes to cook.
@@ryanalmighty2630 I agree in general, save for the bit regarding high value men. While it is undeniable that the top 20% of men have essentially free access to sex, they are not statistically more likely to have a long term, functional marriage and what we would call love. The cohorts that do are upper middle class and religious communities. The latter is more obvious, but the former often confuses people. The reason this cohort does so well is competency, in my opinion. A make doctor will marry his receptionist, if she is feminine, fertile, and has skills that complement his own. He brings enough resources in that a woman feels secure, but not so much that he can easily and painlessly trade her in for a younger model. If you’re a man and not in the top 20%, you’re in for a struggle. If you’re a woman and not between the ages of 16 and 30, you’re in for a struggle. That is the paradigm brought by modern society.
@@TheSpicyLeg You're point about hook -up culture leading to more lonliness needs to be talked about more. I've thought about this and people hate to admit it. I think the overall conversation about relationships, "incels", social media, unrealistic standards commodifying sex, and the nuances of dating in this modern generation could go into more depth. It's a thematic phenomena not just impacting one person even though it feels like it is. Good point!
Yes this is me. It is painful. I know part of my status is due to my phenotype and how it is perceived in the USA. I am a heavy set dark skinned african american woman. Although i have a lot going for me, I have a PhD , many hobbies, I travel, and I earn a good salary, men are so fickle hear, they dont want to see beyond wether you are White or Biracial here. And frankly the White dudes here, even the very obese ones, arent checking for women whom are also larger.
💔❤️ Just pls know you are able to control many things - though it may feel as if you're at the mercy of others (men)! The same way you stepped up and earned your educational credentials, you can set personal and relationship goals and succeed. What about a starter goal like, 1_Accept and Celebrate one awesome personality trait that someone seems to like that eventually builds to, 10_Strengthen and cultivate gestures of caring and friendship with a targeted person who is also nice to me, to see where it goes? I don't know you, but I feel I understand - I want you to win! ~ blessings 🤗
@Ganta Igarashi I totally understand where you are coming from, but doesn't it suck if she is comfortable in her own skin and has to lose weight just to find a man when there is probably alot more going on in her favour besides looks, it's a sad world we live in unfortunately.
I’m not saying you absolutely should do this but, have you ever considered weight loss surgery? Tummy tuck? If I had a PHD and your type of money, the makeover I’d give myself would be astronomical! I’d look like a damn Barbie Doll
The fact of the matter is that 95% of diets fail. People with certain genetics (African American, Jewish, Hispanic, etc) just tend to be overweight and the only tool medical professionals have to combat this is weight loss surgery, such as the gastric sleeve and gastric bypass. There are top rated board certified surgeons who do amazing plastic surgery, almost as an art form. I wish I had just $10,000 for a new body.
This is my last comment- it has ZERO to do with your skin complexion. High value men won’t be with a fat white woman either, but plenty have slim dark skin women
I’ve never understood the ease in which some people are able to find partner after partner. I dont have sexual trauma but I was abused emotionally as a kid/teen and severely bullied by my peers throughout school which resulted in the same fear you described of intimacy. I’m happy to say though that I think I’m finally coming to terms with the fact that certain things just may not be in the cards for me and even if I do somehow manage to find someone maintaining that connection will likely be a lot harder for me then it is for others. I definitely relate to a lot of what you said. I hope this doesn’t come across as insensitive but after watching a few of your videos recently (before viewing this one) I thought that something traumatic must have happened to you. I wasn’t sure what, just assumed you must have been through some serious things because you come across as someone who is very intelligent and I find most people are too busy or I guess so caught up in their day to day lives that it never occurs to them to really think about/explore certain topics and therefore they never end up reaching the same conclusions. I find myself agreeing with a lot of your opinions and I know for myself I would have never reached the same conclusions had I not spent the majority of my adult life in isolation with ample time to read and explore my own interests. My ideal partner would actually be someone like you that shares many of the same opinions I do and can relate to the fears I have of intimacy/commitment but I think being that we both share those fears we’d therefore be unlikely to put ourselves out there and never end up connecting on that level. Still, it is nice to just know that similar people exist. I very much enjoy your channel and look forward to future posts.
I often marvel at how some folks find partner after partner too. Even some who aren’t conventionally attractive, young or small find partners with ease, even have them lined up in some cases. It’s always mind-boggling to me.
@@Cranberries87 dont get it twisted tho, something wrong with them. Im sorry but my sister is like that. I kid you not she stays with a guy for like 6 months and then when they break she have a new guy like in two weeks, no not even one week. I dont envy these people because it is terrifying to do that and there is no pride in that.
@@Cranberries87 I know someone like that. She craves being in relationships. She think that is happiness and she gets depressed if she not in one. She becomes emotional clingy. She gets depressed if she is not in contact with them for a while. Many of her boyfriends are pieces are crappy people. She not emotional ok. I wish she would understand it’s ok to be single. She clearly needs a breather from relationships and work on her emotional health before being in another relationships or else she gonna continue being in this cycle. It’s not good for her kids or her being with her being with crappy people
22, virgin. I only kissed someone for the first time when I turned 20. I’ve never wanted a relationship per se, but more someone who I could connect with. Only then would sex, imo, become desirable. I’m a bookish and creative person, and I’ve only ever wanted someone who I could speak my heart to without bound or limit. I’ve only ever wanted to hear the same from someone else. It has always seemed to me, however, that I have to play a social game to get to this point - I have to appear to be this or that, say this or that, and only then can I break the threshold of distance to become intimate. There is no way for someone who simply enjoys life, all its highs and lows, to simply live and connect. We have to put up with interpersonal drama, politics, and so forth. We must mask ourselves in facades. I have disdain for this game, and so I don’t play it. In consequence, I am often alone with my thoughts and writing is my only release. I publish from time to time, but the game of appearance is a worthless one. I only want to experience someone else wholly and fully, and for them to experience me.
Eeeek. 31 year old woman, over 3 years single/celibate, and feeling more and more identified with being demisexual. I think I've seen it as a choice because I know I could probably find a partner if I lower my standards and lie to myself, which I kinda did to an extent in the few relationships I had in my twenties. It's my choice to no longer lower my standards in order to feel (often the illusion of) emotional intimacy which I do want. I seem to have less choice in having the relationship I deeply desire. But I'm also incredibly avoidant, kinda socially inept, and have barely put myself out there in 3+ years so who knows. It's unclear how much of that is a result of trauma/mental illness/neurodivergence, how much has been a natural pull to ~focus/work on myself~, and how much is from limited opportunity for whatever reason. What a depressing topic. But I agree, it's an important conversation to have. Much more nuanced than is commonly represented.
As a young man in my early 20s I definitely relate hard to many of the points you made. I want a partner, but have had no luck in finding them. I recently had been struggling with feeling unlovable and a failure, it's extremely comforting to know I am not the only one having this problem. I feel that a large part of this intimate disconnect is due to the internet. People are more connected than ever yet when it comes to in-person interaction we are lonelier than any other point in history. Dating apps feed on this desire and frustration and turn it into a gambling game in which society loses while companies make profit off of our loneliness.
I've never been romantic with anyone, I grew up learning from my parents and classmates that I don't deserve it and that's something I internalized. A girl would have to throw themselves at me and that's not really something that happens when I feel too ashamed to go to social events. Now that I'm 30 it definitely feels too late and it's one of the things I think about when suicidal thoughts creep up. You're supposed to have a "body count" or at least a long term relationship or you're a failure after like 18. And it's not even a media thing, I'm comparing myself to my friends and coworkers who apparently just pick people up like they sell them at a store? I feel trapped because I know it would be so awkward to explain to any new partner.
I’ve been there. It sucks. Things didn’t really turn around for me until my early 30s. Try dating as many people as you can and I think you’ll be surprised at how little explaining about your past you’ll have to do. If you find someone who’s too hung up on your lack of dating experience, then they’re not for you. Best of luck to you! :)
This video truly altered my opinion on incels. Long comment alert: I absolutely agree, whenever I heard the term ‘incel,’ it would immediately conjure images misogynistic men who somehow feel entitled to women’s bodies and affections. I can’t tell you how many men have interacted with me and tried to befriend me under the guise of just sleeping with me and becoming absolutely furious that I gently reject them. The cries of “well I’m a nice guy!” when they are being pushy, demanding, and objectifying still ring in my ears. I know there are women who are absolutely the same way. NO ONE should feel as though they ought to have access to someone else’s body, no one. And I do think an obsession with “corn” and online sexual fantasies have encouraged those toxic mindsets. (I’ll get into that more in a second.) They simply project all of their grievances as a societal problem, instead of an internal issue. Like, an entire gender have a conspiracy to deny you sex because you’re just too good of a guy doesn’t make sense. There is no personal accountability at all. However, there are thousands of people that are involuntarily celibate because of internal issues that go beyond just “well, I’m not hot enough.” Trauma, abuse, social awkwardness, among many other things all play into part here. My own sister is an incel, and I would NEVER have used this word to refer to her before. Due to emotional abuse to endured growing up and the deep-rooted internal shame about her weight, she is absolutely terrified of being intimate with someone for fear of mocking her or rejecting her in some way. She is 27 and has never had sex and was actually confessing to me the other day that she is terrified of being unable to have a partnership and a family because she is just so afraid. She prefers those little videogames where you have hot guys and you control your responses, you know? I love her to DEATH and couldn’t understand why she wouldn’t just “loosen up” but I was completely ignoring her emotional trauma. I think, for a lot of people, it’s the fear of intimacy. Not just the fear of physical intimacy, but emotional intimacy. The fear of being vulnerable with someone else. My sister and I have totally opposite sex lives and experiences, but I am realizing nowadays that I have a similar fear of that. While she cannot allow herself to be sexual with anyone out of fear of emotional rejection, I have had sex with way too many people who didn’t care about me or know me. But sex was just…hollow. It meant nothing. I am perfectly fine preforming sexual acts but receiving them makes me shut down entirely and I become so deeply ashamed and afraid that I refuse to let it happen. That someone caring about me enough to take the time to pleasure me? I can’t allow it. I was actually sitting down and thinking for a second these past few months: all, ALL of my relationships have started under the umbrella of just a casual sexual encounter. The thought of having sex with someone that loves me FIRST and then wants to be intimate with me absolutely terrifies me and I cannot even compute what that would be like. I think we live in an over-sexed, under-loved world. Sex is absolutely everywhere yet true love? Where do we see that? Anywhere? I was watching The Marriage Story last night and frankly, it terrified me. I am absolutely terrified of falling in love with anyone because what if I make the wrong choice? What if they are mean to me or a terrible parent or fall out of love with me? What makes me so lovable that someone would want to love me unconditionally? I don’t even love myself that much…or hardly at all. All we see are dysfunctional relationships portrayed by our elders, our toxic situations sprouting from Tinder, and horrible situations reflected in media. Of course it’s safer to retreat into virtual reality where no one can see you, you can stop it whenever you want, no one judges you, and you’re safe. But what we crave, CRAVE is that true and genuine love from another person. That sex is part of that love and that sense of belonging and comfort brought to us by someone that accepts us as we are. In a world that teaches us that we are never good enough and shouldn’t even trust our own judgement, how can we hope to find that? Humans are animals, and I think society has forgotten that. Edit: from what I can see in the comments here, I guess what I’m trying to say is this: there are several contributing factors as to why dating and romance and sex have been warped and twisted in the past several years. I do believe that Tinder and even pornography as a concept has altered people’s ability to form healthy connections and normal views on sex. I suppose the difference between the kind of incel that Kid is discussing versus what society says is that Kid takes personal accountability. She understands that due to her own trauma and self-esteem issues, she is unable to form normal connections. The difference in typical incels is blaming society for all of their love problems and not taking any examination in themselves. Is society fucked up? Absolutely. But if every single woman you ever come across rejects you, then maybe…just maybe…you’re the problem.
You still have a prejudice about those people even when you have someone at your side who is the same as those people. So do you think that all the cases are just misogynistic man entitled or you would stop to think that maybe their case is not different that many others and their emotional response (angry) just comes from fear or frustrations. At the end of the time, you and them are the same, lack of meaningful connections, i don't know you and i don't judge you, just citing what you have written about how you start your relationships and why you struggle to let in someone who cares about yourself. That's not different at all. I mean, both responses, the men you have encountered, and yourself comes from the same fears, what if i make the wrong choice/move and that end up wrong. Then why your response at the same things coming from different people is different? those are confrontations, and why it comes from you as the same, is confrontation with your fears of a truly meaningful connection with a partner. is that a gender bias or a lack of awareness. This is the thing that i've seen into many people who don't seem to understand the society problem with loneliness, and the "incels", etc. Those fears are not exclusive, that detatchment and disconnect is shared among all the people. Just because we see some as entitled, misogynistic or anything, that bad connotations stop us to dive into what's the root of those problems. Those are people, even if you dislike them, those are the same as any others, no matter their gender, no matter their circunstances. It's not a new thing, those people are not something that came up from anywhere. This is a thing that has been there since the beginning of humanity. And we see it as a problem now, because of the connected world. This is not different of elder (or not) people dying alone, the "hikkikomori" agoraphobia people who don't go outside of their houses. This new labels and the prejudges that comes with them are the real harm. We are creating divitions, where many of the struggles comes from the same. So the real and important question here is, where this loneliness come from?
'love' is a bio-chemically produced perception that gets people to have children with one another. And I'm afraid that in every society some won't get to experience the sense of well-being that comes from being part of a family, from losing in life via their experiences, genetic makeup, health etc.
You have compassion when it comes to your sister, but you can't think of any reason other than misogyny why those men would react in such a way when it comes to rejection? You think it's misogyny and entitlement? The lashing out, the misogyny as you put it, is a symptom of repeated emotional trauma. Those men probably got rejected dozens of times. They didn't come out of the womb or come out of puberty as evil woman hating entitled men. They have scars, and repeated rejections exacerbate whatever personal issues and depressions and traumas they are already dealing with. And the way that they have coped with it is unfortunately to lash out. But I can guarantee you that they're not all evil. They have all the emotional trauma that your sister has, just in a different way. The hypocrisy in this comment is just ridiculous. But I won't call you out further on it. I'll just put it down to a gender bias. I just hope you realize that these gender biases are part of what keeps the stigma of being an incel alive, especially when it comes to men.
@Ceiling Fan Yes, because I was an incel for many years. From 18 until just before age 30. Luckily I didn't travel down the misogyny road very much because I always had female friends, and this was the mid 2000s to the mid 2010s so I didn't have a Reddit account, but I certainly remember how it felt and I had a lot of time on my hands to work through those feelings. And the way that society has demonized incels without understanding or trying to understand how they got to that point, especially when it comes to male incels.... It's just tiresome to me. And all it does is continue the cycle of loathing. It does nothing to help the situation or the people involved.
Hello kidology, and people reading it... I thought about sharing first is amazing here we can start a conversation about it, and reclaim the word not as something to point someone as not worthy Being from mexico here we have lot of sexism (patriarchy) but rarely is toxic mascunility talk about, men are not the only with sexist ideas women do too sometimes, and celibacy is something that is often view as something wrong with the person, generally a man, where mocking can come from men and women. I found myself in this situation and also the pandemic changed everything for me and also found myself friendless But im OK. I really like we can take a humble and compassionate look , instead of throwing more negativity to this problem, which make it worse. I always like watching your videos and make the little hamster in my brain work a little, today this was different, this video felt like the warm hug I sometimes need
Closeness can be scary. Finding someone to trust feels impossible. Making yourself completely vulnerable to someone, and having that vulnerability answered with support and safety feels like something that happens to other people. Here's the rub: it doesn't have to be. There's no reason that it can't be you. And as long as you can hold yourself high, keep your boundaries, talk about how you feel, and be ok with both having needs and the possibility that they can be met, you can learn at your own pace. You're self aware and you're up front about your personal truths. You'll find a good person when you're ready to look. No rush and no need to judge yourself. This shit takes time to figure out.
It just makes you feel so out of place when you are around everyone else and their paths isn’t going like yours. Everyone else has it so easy like there are men who don’t have anything just like me, but unlike me are toxic and have horrible quality’s, yet they are still able to find people. Maybe it’s just me and my fear of not wanting to be judged but damn, i atleast want to find someone who understands me and is willing to take that time to get comfortable with me. I get my whole life assumed and I meet none of those expectations. All I have is a handsome face in societies standards. I don’t have the materialistic stuff I’m not doing good in that regard in my life and it’s like, idk that internal fear is what I believe makes my life hell like this I just have to break that man.. because honestly I’m not that far from becoming the man I dream to be, yet in my mind it feels so distant
i think there’s just fundamentally a lot wrong with societal expectations that you should be super sexual experienced by the time you’re in your early twenties. it’s just not true for a lot of people, mostly those who don’t enjoy casual sex. it’s really quite common for people to be virgins in their early twenties, especially if they haven’t serious relationships (which is a lot of people at this stage in life!!). Acting like it’s rare or weird just contributes to a cycle of shame and avoidance.
It's old expectations that haven't caught up to modern times. The boomers didn't live in the same times and world younger generations are living in. Back then you genuinely did tend to be married with children younger, and if you go back farther in time, how young you were when you were married / had your first kid might strike you as creepy. It's basically like, pre-modern socio-economic expectations put on postmodern people. It's a miss-match that hasn't caught up because it got baked into culture and is going to take time to transition, if it does at all. It's the same energy as boomers blaming millennials for not buying houses and they just don't realize how crazy difficult that is for millennials compared to how boomers had it.
I was technically an incel before I met my bf. I had been groped by a teacher when I was 16 and was very scared of men. I was so incredibly lonely and I wanted love. I met him on tinder the first hour of getting it. He is the only person I was able to share my body with. He is comfort and kindness. I hope others can find what we found too
Want to thank you for this. I have a beautiful close family member, he’s everything to me but he’s been single for a long time now. He has everything locked down, great job, amazing family and well rounded, very handsome… but he’s just not super outgoing. Consequently he’s been single and celibate for years. I know he would like a family of his own. He deserves the world. It hurts me when people say incel in a pagoritive sense because he in no way deserves any reputation for being misogynistic or something undeserving.
I'm sort of incel. As a male, and a gay one, I should be extremely reluctant to admit that. What you see and hear of gay men in the media is that we're hedonistic, sexually free, and always up for it. For the past several years I've had sex perhaps three or four times. I don't meet many gay people, and when I do I understand it's common to have it three or four times a month, if not a week. There are a few reasons. I'm uninterested in anything penetrative. I'm introverted. I'm socially pretty lazy. I rarely connect with anyone and when I do it's usually asexual. I do like and enjoy it, but I accept that I'm not most people's cup of tea. It is a mental struggle, and has been for years, to overcome the idea that I'm deficient, not good enough, not a proper gay, a reject, etc.
As an asexual person, while I'm not the same I absolutely feel the social pressure and fear of intimacy. I also was raised in an incredibly cold and distant household, and may be romantically traumatised by past relationships, as the thought of having a special someone is just makes me incredibly anxious, I never want to be trapped alone with anyone, and fear if I care too much I'd do anything for someone regardless of self preservation. I go with the antiromantic label myself, not necessarily as an inherent orientation, but as a learned aversion. It's kind of infuriating that the misogynist crowd who dominated the incel label, seemed to have ruined the reputation for those in a difficult state due to trauma, particularly women
i had the exact same realization that i am a female incel a couple months ago; i’ve known that i am involuntarily celibate since i was a teenager but the realization that i am by definition an incel didn’t hit me until that moment. it wasn’t one big traumatic event that made me one but a lot of little moments and beliefs planted in me from a young age from my religious community that i believe has rewired my brain to be terrified of sex (not necessarily the intimate emotional connection but purely the physical act of it and all of the fears of the unknown, pain, etc). i didn’t know that it was normal for people to go through a sexual exploration phase in their pubescent years until much later in life because mine was so full of internal shame and guilt that i thought i was an anomaly. it mostly involved me looking at inappropriate content on instagram and feeling extremely aroused to where i couldn’t stop looking, but with tears down my face because i believed what i was doing wrong. hearing sermons on purity at church didn’t help either. i’ve had plenty of intimate moments with guys but i’ve always set limits before things got actually sexual. luckily those boundaries have been respected, but i’m terrified that i won’t be able to satisfy whoever i’m meant to share my life with. not only that, but my situation has left me never having used a tampon as a woman in my early 20s. i tried to get examined at the gynecologist because my period has always been painful and inconsistent, but i had a meltdown when the doctor barely touched me. it’s been a very lonely thing to deal with; the majority of women my age i’ve talked to struggle to understand what im going through. i’m working it out through therapy right know, and i’m very optimistic. it’s refreshing to hear about other women who also struggle with this.
you might have endometriosis. i would look into supplement DIM, serrapeptase & MACA. look for supplements that balance hormones & make sure IRON & iodine intake are adequate. eat more cabbage as well
A friend of mine has similar issues, although not connected to religious brainwashing or moral stances on sexuality, maybe still going back to how men were seen and experienced in her birth family. Let me tell you that erotic self-exploration is healthy and can help a lot in finding out about yourself, your simple pleasures and hidden longings and current boundaries, and how to express and process all of that mentally, sexually and verbally. Using your own bodily sensations, emotional reactions and endogenous phantasies (as well as empathy, sympathy and trust) are probably the best starting point for a fulfilling journey into sex. Let me also tell you that being able to satisfy whomever you share your life with does not depend on your sexual make-up at all but "only" on whether you are the right people for each other under the given circumstances at the given time and whether you communicate well enough to find that out.
@@enginerdy This reminded me the last time I was getting intimate with a woman I met that same day, I really wanted to have sex with her, and she wanted me too, we were kissing and touching but then it got confusing because I haven't been intimate with a girl since the pandemic started, i didn't connect with anyone, i didn't even got hugged by anyone and she told me she went through something similar, so it became this wierd thing in wich we wanted to had sex and at the same time we just wanted to hug. We felt like we were connecting for real, so she eventually told me she did not wanted to have sex that day, she told me she had an issue with sex, and we fell asleep hugged by each other. When I told my therapist what happened she told me that my abused inner kid came out and asked for a hug instead of let the hunter (her words) push for what I want, sex. Even if I made clear that the girl was also feeling vulnerable and did not wanted sex that night. Even if she knows my story with sex and how almost need to switch personalities to be sexual. It felt so emasculating, almost felt like I was being made fun of for respecting her and not led the moment like a master of sex, even if she was 5 years older. Yes I know how to be charming and I'm good at flirting but I've been feeling very vulnerable lately for my lack of human connection and intimacy but aparently that is romantic thinking and we should get rid of that. Because sex is healthy and everyone should be ready to fuck at any time otherwise there is something wrong, their inner abused child still governs them. So yeah the ideas of the sexual revolution also hurt people, a lot, actually.
@@dr.octavio5772 Your therapist is either a lunatic or you really misunderstood her. Not everybody wants or needs to fuck 24/7, there are other kinds of intimacy.
There's so many people who end up single well into their adulthood and yet every aspect of our culture is geared for the process of monogamy, and depictions of singleness are either hyper sexual or weird and pejorative
probably the most relatable video I’ve seen in recent times since this is a subject I’ve been reflecting on for months and just recently beginning to accept that I’m lonely and not alone by choice. personally I’ve always identified with the term involuntary celibate but detached from its generalised incel meaning. I’m not resentful about being alone and I’m desired by many, I also haven’t any relationship trauma but still I fear intimacy and the vulnerability it takes to sleep with someone. all of this leaves me with very high standards and a tendency to push people away. I’m still getting to know and learning to love myself and I think that’s the biggest reason why I’m still in the incelzone
I am, in a way, both voluntarily and involuntarily celibate. Childhood trauma definitely played a huge role in having self worth issues and a repressed sexuality, which is why I was, considering the society I live in (urban Europe), a late bloomer, when I became sexually active in my early 20s (turning 30 this year). I had a couple encounters, a serious relationship, a little bit of dating, but I've been celibate again the last couple of years and even though I experience loneliness or the desire for physical connection, I'm not rushing to change my celibate state at the expense of my independence or mental health. It definitely helped to realize that casual sex doesn't do it for me and that superficial qualities like status, looks, etc. aren't the foundation I want to build a loving, caring relationship on.
I'm so sorry for what you have experienced. It's awful and no one should ever go through that. On your beautiful thoughts, I just think that being alone is different than being celibate, tho. In general, women are the gatekeepers of sex. But making the decision to be sexually active does not mean you won't feel lonely. Just like being celibate does not mean you will (feel lonely). They're not necessarily related, as it depends on the quality of the relationships. I beilieve they're two different things, and that being alone is ultimately your choice, either because you're looking for something that matches your expectations (delayed gratification mindset) and you're getting ready, or because you prefer to stay out of the dating world entirely. And it's okay to have expectations, as long as we match those in oursleves as well ;) it's the ultimate socialization test, and it's worth it, in my opinion ❤
Thank you for starting this immensely vulnerable and relatable conversation! I have never typed this anywhere on the internet but here goes. I'm 30 and I've never had a romantic relationship. I've sort of had two, one was mostly online and the other one which was in person barely lasted a few months. So I've never been intimate with anyone either. Not to mention my very conservative and emotionally unavailable parents don't help the matter. Now that I'm in my 30s I feel pretty lonely when I see others with partners. But at the same time I don't want to put myself into that whole emotional chaos of romance again either. I'd love to have a healthy romantic relationship but even looking at my friends I feel like they are so few and far in between. So I thought regardless of what people thought of me, being single and celibate at the age of 30, I will simply do what feels right to me.
I'm single and not ready to mingle. I love sex. I love dating (sometimes) but I've realised, I really love my life. I love not having to factor in another person. I love having money and being able to spend it how I like. I like being able to move to another city if I want or even a country. I love being able to eat what I want without having to have a conversation about it. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I spent time over the Christmas break camping with a friend and her partner and it was lovely. I felt genuinely happy to see how much they love one another. At no point did I think "I'm sad because I don't have that." I just thought "I'm happy they have that and I'm happy with my life." It took me a while to get to this point. I've had relationships and I've dated a lot and I realised the pattern during those times was that I was always unhappy. I always felt relief when the people would leave. It didn't matter who it was or how much I liked them. I was always like "phew. They are gone." The second they left haha. Having the space away from dating and relationships and whirlwind romances allowed me to chase my dreams. I realised that I want to be a doctor and maybe my life was meant to be devoted to something outside of myself just not in the traditional sense of marriage and kids. Anyway, wish me luck. I start MD school next year.
I'm 27 and have come to realize that relationships are a privilege, not a human right. Especially in this day and age. Lots of people are privileged enough to get into a relatively happy, successful, and stable relationship while a lot of people "don't make the cut," e.g. remain incels/are celibate voluntarily. Even more people get into unstable/dangerous/abusive relationships, like my own mother. Three horrible relationships in a row and was abandoned with more children than the last time. I'm content to be alone for a number of reasons. I don't like the inevitable reality of the power dynamics (woman = submissive, man = dominating). I also find that whenever I tried to enter one, that I would have to perform things I didn't want to (anything sexual or romantic at all, I'm neither and find it cringe/embarassing when they try it on me). I'm still a virgin thankfully, most I did was oral. Even then that was only three times. Last is the privacy and energy depletion. I never had my own space growing up, still don't, and probably won't until I'm in my 40s, which is a shame but oh well, better late than never. And I spend most of my days diverting my energy towards friends, family, co-workers, and customers. When I get home, I don't want to see another face. Sure, I get scared of dying alone; however, I'd much rather face that fear than the fear of being in a marriage, with a man on top of me, impregnating me (possibly more than once), carrying his child(ren) for nine months, ruining my body like it happened with my mother's, and having my offspring inheriting whatever genetic diseases both me and my partner have. The con of one outweighs the cons of many.
@@riari6980 No, because I like the idea of having sex, and I also have the capacity of being in love. There's just too many moving parts and reasons that make both disinteresting, and ultimately, unfeasible.
"A relationship is a privilege, not a human right" that's a great take. For example, marriage has always been a privileged institution. Economists have long argued that marriage rates are lower in poorer and less well-educated areas because men in those communities aren't good financial bets. It's crazy when you think about it.
I am a celibate because I had so many failures in love that it became tiresome and very painful for me. I had enough but now, not worrying about not being alone made my life more peaceful and I ended up loving even more the loneliness. I can run my life with my own rules and don't get involved in other's people's dramas. Just fantastic.
I would love a video on the history!!! I love how this video kind of touched base personally with you , your experience and ur development of ur ideas changing. It felt raw and authentic and having moments where you’re not just sharing pieces of information but sharing ur own ideas and experience is really nice :,) I loved this one!!
I think you've hit on a key point, which is that a lot of societies both place utmost importance on romantic coupling and sex and simultaneously refuse to support anyone who doesn't happen to participate in those things for whatever reason. Like, where I live, it is absolutely way more expensive to be a single person. That is just one effect; it doesn't take account into the emotional or even spiritual consequences you describe of someone who is purposefully or unintentionally single or celibate. The support I refer is meaningful social support and safety nets, but also pushing back against primacy of coupling, both romantic and sexual, and making it sit in a more egalitarian way with relationships like friendships, parent-child relationships, sibling relationships, etc. Anyone who wants a romantic or sexual relationship should be supported to seek one out in a healthy way, but it's not THE most important and dominating relationship of society. How do we do this? I don't know exactly. But I also see this kind of support as the opposite to the extreme misogyny of the men who feel entitled to women's bodies and dehumanize women because of the men's involuntary celibacy. It's a question of real support versus backlash domination and control.
I work at home currently during this covid I have been experience a great deal of loneliness. Especially for the fact that I dont have a car. I have plans this year to travel internationally. I feel if people feel lonely then treat yourself. Go on vacation, go on a cruise, move abroad and work remotely and learn other cultures. U.S. has became so dependent on social media that it feels its more dividing us then having us come together. When I get on the bus or train and see everyone glued to the phone. I feel a sense of loneliness still. Maybe its out tainted society.
I for one have always wanted to have sex but unfortunately I'm not exactly up to par with societal beauty standards. And this is not to say I think I'm ugly but I'm just very aware that I'm not what society deems as beautiful. And not to say that I haven't experienced men being attracted to me but unfortunately the ones who are-are never my type and the ones I am attracted to don't feel the same way. I'm very eager to have sex one day with a someone who likes me as much as I do them but so far at 21 yrs of age I haven't been lucky. Thank you for this video it made me feel less alone especially while reading the comments. Really grateful that you talked about this ❤
Wow, sincerity and sanity are rare gifts that will soon stand out amongst the sea of sad souls lost in their own bubbles, frightened to death to examine themselves/beliefs/behaviours. You are quite the catch and will surely have zero problems finding a strong, stable, loving mate when the time is right, and when/if it aligns with your circumstances and desires to do so. Thank you for your empathy 🙏🏽✨
There are too many standarts that you have to meet in todays society to be a desirable man. I would have to change everything about my life, spend most of my time improving and for what? That MAYBE ill find someone?I am in my early thirties andi i kind of made peace with the knowledge that i will be alone.
Yep, I'm celibate. Not into online dating and so there's really nowhere to meet people. I'm not into "dating" anymore anyways. I'm turning 30 so now I'm waiting for something more meaningful if it comes along. But I'm happy in the meantime with all the time to learn about myself and what I really do want.
You're not into online dating, and you're not willing to date offline. How in the world is something just going to magically come along and be meaningful? Nothing is just going to come along, you have to get out and engage with the world. You have to go where the people you like to go. So the gym if they're into fitness. To cosplay conventions if they're into comics and super heroes. Local meet ups for various interest.Whatever. But hiding in the house waiting for magical pixie dust fairy tail moments to happen is just going to leave you alone for life.
oh wow, i really appreciate this perspective about "inceldom" or whatever. im a 27 yo woman and still a virgin, i have never had a romantic relationship, not even a kiss. idk ive spent most of my teenage years feeling really unlovable and depressed, ive never had the energy to consider pursuing romance, and by the time i became an adult i decided to focus on improving my relationship with myself, to the point where i considered romance as a possibility, and ive had a number of people interested in me romantically or sexually, but ended up feeling incredibly inadequate, which in turn landed me kinda back at the beginning by now i feel ive been out of the loop for too long, i know im still young but intimacy is something that never came easily to me, and i feel im just stuck like this. and this strange shame i feel about being so inexperienced at this age makes me super isolated. i feel so embarrassed by being so bad at something that seemingly comes naturally to everyone else, i dont know how to talk about it. i feel burdened by my loneliness and shame, but my fear of intimacy and all the expectations that a romantic relationship entails just paralyze me, i dont want to hurt people or treat them as an experiment or part of my personal growth, if that makes sense? and all the talk about romantic responsability, while i understand is important, just adds another layer of feeling deficient for me. ive been always kind of drawn to incel culture because i can relate to the feelings of isolation and loneliness, even if i feel most of their rethoric boils down to entitlement, but still i cant help but feel that ultimately the fact i am like this is just my own doing. thank you for the video, and for the space to air out something ive never been able to articulate
This resonate like crystal. I've taken long breaks from intimacy for various reasons. Every time I feel ready to branch out, I am frustrated and disappointed. 6.5 years was my longest streak, and it started out purposeful, so I can focus on the family and myself, then it morphed, and eventually I was able to break it, being comfortable again. Now I find myself 5 years in after some losses that took me out of the nookie pool, and I am putting my feelers out, again. It's not easy, but my suggestion is make a decision, and boundaries. Don't settle, you deserve better. 💌
I’ve been so depressed and isolated for the last 7 years and I haven’t had any kind of physical contact except hugs from my parents in over 5 years. Now I’m on medication that completely removes any sex drive I once had, but it’s actually a good thing, because I live in a tiny town and there are zero prospects for any kind of relationship here. I feel no anger or bitterness towards women or couples, I’m glad that people can find happiness. I would never make any of this a part of my identity or refer to myself as celibate or an “incel”, I’m just a person.
I definitely agree that there are a ton of people (including myself) who align with the original ideals of involuntarily celibacy. But I kinda think it will be difficult and uncomfortable to reclaim the term “incel” due to how harmful and misogynistic incel communities currently are😥
Well this is awkward.. And uncomfortable to talk about.. I'll be turning 38 this year (female) and I've never been in a relationship, I tried casual sex and even though the physical part was enjoyable I didn't want to condition my brain with equating sex with vulgar friction.. I do have some minor childhood sexual trauma but for me is the emotional trauma caused by my family.. I simply cannot connect with people on an emotional level, I abhor the idea of becoming vulnerable and having to depend on others (because showing weakness in my youth was like chumming the water for sharks..).. I sometimes feel like an alien trapped in a human body, faking human relations and emotions.. A faker.. Maybe one day I'll find one person that will be all the right combinations but I more and more doubt so as my "value" drops with every year now.. Anyhow, I feel for everyone who is in a similar situation!
@@nelzelpher7158 Hmmm.. Yes and no, there's a large psychological component to it, for females can be as much as 80 pc. How we are feeling about the whole thing/person/ourselves will determine how the experience fares. In many cases, the friction meaning nothing at all and causing no arousal. I'm not going to speak for men.. haha
Thank you for this safe space to talk about something that's been on my mind for months now. Before some time last year, I was really happy being alone. I was thankful to have my friends and family and live my life making my own decisions. But then I became really close with a friend who, through absolutely no fault of her own, is what society might probably describe as "normal" for someone my age, which is to say she has had significant sexual and romantic experience. As a consequence of my upbringing and general personal preferences, I have never had any of that, and so gravitated towards friends who have also had a similar experience. This friend is one of the closest people I have in my life right now, and she is unequivocally one of the greatest friends I've ever been so lucky to have. But being friends with her makes me feel so left out of a huge conversation. I feel like I'm behind, and like I'm missing out. If it was just me, I'd take my time. I'm very introverted and identify as asexual, so being in a relationship and having sex have always been at the bottom of my priorities. I always thought, if it's meant to happen, it'll happen, and if it doesn't, I've lived a good life anyway. But now I suddenly feel like I'm missing a part of that good life. I feel like I want to find someone now because I want to feel normal. I don't want to miss out when all my friends are married or in relationships. I got so mad at myself when I realized that I had these thoughts, because there was also that pressure to uphold that ideal of being happy alone. But now I'm realizing and accepting that my friend and I are just people who ~live in a society, and that it's normal to feel these feelings at my age and in my situation. I'm trying to focus on myself and go at my own pace, but it's still really hard not to feel lonely. Not to mention that society's prescribed ways of getting out of this were pretty terrible for me (i.e. I tried dating apps for a bit and they gave me so much anxiety, it really wasn't worth it). Anyway, thank you again for this video. It made me feel less alone for a bit.
I am seriously so grateful I found you. seeing another woman talking about these things gives me so much comfort. I enjoy all of your content but seeing you be open about this topic in particular has me feeling less alone. thank you.
Okay so here goes: I guess you could say I was and wasn’t an involuntary celibate over the last ten years. There were times when I longed for a loving, secure relationship and there were times when I did not want to settle for anyone in particular. Sometimes when you do too much of the one you want the other. Like when I‘d go on too many meh dates I‘d think ok whatever I‘ll take sex then better than nothing and after I‘d had too many meh one night stands I‘d think oh God please just give me a relationship already. It’s weird. You know you’re conditioned to want something you may not really want but at the same time you don’t always know what that is. Anyway as cheesy as it sounds when people say dumb stuff like “it happens when you least expect it” - that’s how it happened for me. After years and years of alternating phases of one night stands, of dating and of not seeing anyone at all I kind of accepted that this is how my life was going to be. I accepted that while I like listening to love songs and going to weddings those kinds of things are just not in the cards for me. I accepted that at times I am going to feel unlovable and at other times I’m going to feel like I deserve so much more than to settle for someone I don’t really have a spark with. I accepted that I am loved by so many people already and that their love will be enough for me because some people just aren’t meant to be in relationships and that’s okay. And wouldn’t you know it? That’s when I ended up in a relationship a few weeks later... Mind you, a relationship I’ve had (and still have to) work very hard not to sabotage because my fears and my heartaches, my preconceived ideas of “red flags” and “dealbreakers” are etched so deep into my brain that I still sometimes hear that voice saying “run”. But at the same time I am also fully aware that what I have is precious and if it won’t last so be it but it won’t be because I sabotaged it (again). The way I see it there’s three parts to a working relationship: Vulnerability, work and luck. The scariest thing about being in a relationship after all these years of (at times involuntarily) not being in one is the fact that it will hurt you. If you’re lucky it will only hurt you a little bit here and there when your partner gets on your nerves, when you misunderstand eachother or when you’re jealous. If you’re not lucky the whole relationship is not going to work out and you will have spent weeks, months, years... growing with someone you’ll then have to grow apart from. That hurts so much and it’s super scary. But it comes with the territory. You have to be willing to risk breaking your heart into a million little pieces when you want to be in a relationship. Easier said then done. The work of the relationship is constant and sometimes part of the pain but at other times also part of the reward. It’s a different thing for everyone. It sometimes blows me away how hard it is. Sometimes I’m dead set on breaking up because I don’t want to do the work of being patient or of opening up or whatever it is in that moment. Right now I’m working on embracing the fact that my relationship has outgrown its honeymoon phase and is settling into something else. It’s hard sometimes. Sometimes I tell myself it shouldn’t be this hard and I should just run. But I also know it’s the saboteur in me saying that. Sometimes it feels like there’s a version of me putting up a wall brick by brick because that’s what we’ve always done and then the “work” of my relationship consists of going there and taking apart that wall brick by brick as I keep building it up... I don’t know if it makes sense. But it’s work. I’ve found talking to close friends about it helps. Sometimes I’m so sure I know something is yellow only for them to show me the situation could also be green and I need to open up to my partner to figure it out. That’s the work. Finally there’s also luck. You have to be at the right place at the right time and that’s just dumb luck. But not only. You also kinda make your luck. I met my partner two years before we started dating. I immediately knew I liked him. After a year we tried to set something up a couple of times but it always fell through. So I told myself “If he wanted he would” and gave up. The problem was that unbeknownst to me he though the same thing about me. So it took us another year to be able to set our wounded prides / triggered vulnerabilities aside and finally go on that first date. Looking back it’s hard to believe I ever thought he wasn’t into me when I see him now. But I did truly believe that with all of my heart and I was super duper wrong lol. So yeah not sure that helps. But here’s some perspective from someone who was in those shoes for a very long time not too long ago. I know I could end up there again at any given moment because there’s no guarantee in love. Even if we love eachother very much now there’s no guarantee it will be like this forever. But it is now and I guess that for as long as it feels nice we’ll keep working on it hoping we can stay together. And if not and my heart breaks again I’ll just put it back together like I’ve done in the past. It would hurt but I guess it’s worth it.
Thank you for sharing your story. I started dating a couple of months ago, which led me to think more deeply about why people get into relationships. I don't have an answer yet, besides "it is what is expected of us", but it helps to hear other people's experiences.
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Incels of all kinds are up against one of society’s most frustrating contradictions. They are told that it’s up to them to stop putting so much value on sex and to not define their self worth by it, but also that it’s weird to be a virgin and or single after a certain age.
This comment should be pinned!
@@Grace-jb7me Yes.
It's also used as a devaluating term as if having sex was something in order to get worth. But that's giving them the reason of why the are frustrated. Society tells them that sex is not a important thing, and then the same use the term as if someone lack of value for not having sex, marking the same as an important trait to have.
On it👌.
I'm probably way older than you so forgive me but, a good chunk of what you are told or persuaded to do isn't always true or real. There's a lot of social control involved around sexual behaviour to the extent that sometimes we are treated as if we are only cattle who consume. You have to tease the truth from the lies. In short, if you follow the path of traditional happiness, you can only be traditionally happy. And look around you at what traditional happiness provides... It's a map, not the actual territory you are actually going through. With that in mind, you have to take in your surroundings thoroughly as you travel to navigate your way safely on your journey. Always try to find out the pros and cons of any destination on offer before committing fully to it. And decide carefully how to get there. And the old sayings of "When in Rome..." and "What's done in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas" applies more than one would suppose.
who is telling them to stop putting value on sex? basically 90% the markets are driven by it.. all the social media ones anyway
Ouch….you hit close to home with this one…..I’m about to turn 40, and have no children nor a partner. I’ve been incel for years. I’m a woman who is somewhat attractive but I never found someone I connected with. I don’t want sex for the sake of sex because I don’t really enjoy it. I’ve had to move back in with my parents too, so privacy is an issue. I’ve come to terms with the fact that I will never give birth nor likely find a husband. I’m trying to rearrange my life plan to that acceptance. All my life I thought that I would get married and have children, and that I’d have a partner to grow old with. It’s hard to accept that is the reality for everyone else, but not myself. My status didn’t result from sexual trauma (although I was recently assaulted) but more from circumstances. Tbh, I feel deep resentment especially this time of year. If I could find a partner I would embrace the relationship, however I have given up hope of finding one. At this point I doubt that I could ever sleep comfortably sharing my bed with another person. My game plan now is to switch careers and earn enough money to adopt a tween girl when I’m 50. I feel like older girls don’t get adopted into safe homes as often, and I’d like to provide love, support, and guidance to another young lady before I pass. Thank you for making this video. I’ve had a hard time describing my circumstance to others. I am an incel, but you would never guess if you saw me in person. I would never guess that of you either.
I think it's better to remain alone and be satisfied with yourself than to settle for being with someone you don't feel happy or connected with. That sounds like a beautiful life plan btw. 💖 I fell down a teen adoption rabbit hole the other week and saw how wonderful adopting someone a little older can be. Good luck, whoever's life you touch will be blessed. :)
@@aspen1713 The problem is why you don't you feel settle for someone and why someone will settle for you.
Your life plan sounds wonderful, good luck with your future adoption
Fostering kids/teenagers is another great way to connect with people and provide love and care for those who weren’t able to receive it :) i don’t know what fostering is like depending on where you live but i wish you the best. also, would you consider yourself asexual or aromantic? I recently came to the conclusion I am, and although I too know I won’t have a life long partner (which is heavily an idea in our society because of the financial and emotional security it brings), I know that I’d rather find a community of love and support amongst peers.
Go on dates. Adoption is great, but you absolutely deserve love and you deserve a sexual partner, but you must actually meet and communicate with people to make connections.
Ive noticed that adults friendships can be extremely hard to maintain. As a child we are not burdened with responsibilities,( in most cases)our lives are comparatively carefree than that of adults. you become friends with someone not with the intention of personal gain but because you share similar interests or maybe your mums meet for tea.
Of course as one gets older things change drastically. You have responsibilities like personal finance, your job, education I mean the list goes on. One can get so caught up in these things that there just isn't time for 'friends'
I'd agree that friendships are harder to maintain as adults, but I think it's that a friendship is harder to form as an adult. To me a friend is someone you go through trial and error with and trust comes as a result of error leading to success. For example if something goes wrong for friend A, friend B does something that allows this problem to be fixed or become less of a problem therefore leading to success and trust. As an adult, you don't have the time (as you said) to make the mistakes required to build a true friendship. In my opinion, someone whom everything is all smiles with or only good times is not your real friend, they're a decoration and acquaintance in your life. But i think to make a real friend requires, trust, mistakes, time and the understanding of each other's boundaries.
Even though im only 18, i moved out of my parents house at 17 and been living the adult life for a bit now. My friends (a lot which happen to be older) and I do tend to drift toward and apart from each other cus of work and school and mental illness, but noticing that people come for a moment and leave the next. If that moment is one night or ya whole life, easy come easy go
Adult friendships are easy to maintain. Having relationships with childern is adult bodies is difficult. Often people look at superficial things, rather than at the character. I also believe we all need to reflect and formulate responses rather saying the first thing that comes to the tongue. Asking questions is part of a conversation, when confronted with a question you would rather not answer, express that. Wading through others emotional expressions is difficult even for adults. Practice is what makes some people seem good at it.
true but we have to
I get that you have LESS time when you’re an adult but I don’t think you don’t have ANY time at all.
We adults spend hours on social media and watching Netflix. When we are single we make time for dates and crappy relationships. So there is time still, we just don’t give friendships the priority they deserve.
A real good friend will be there for you when your partner and kids are gone but not if you don’t make an effort to cultivate friendships.
It's not just fear of rejection that stops people, it's the fear if they say "yes" to a relationship. Since I'm so inexperienced I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do and what the expectations are. I'm just scared of screwing up. I see dating and relationships like applying for a job I'm not qualified for.
This. Not mentioned nearly enough.
👍🏽
Sameee, thanks for saying this.
If she's the right one, she'll work with you. You both have to work together to COMMUNICATE your needs and boundaries. A fucking terrifying thing, and what sucks is when you're neck deep with someone and then they change their mind. But if you're not lucky enough, then you just gotta pick yourself up and try again. Better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all.
@Squirrely Girly 23 is still young. It's interesting to see there are women who feel the same way because it seems a lot of the expectations surrounding planning the date lies with the man.
Wow, I don't think I have ever seen someone talk about being literally 'involuntarily celibate' with such openness, vulnerability and empathy - thanks for opening up this conversation, I agree it is sorely needed. When you do not fit in with society's mandated trajectory of romantic and sexual development, it can feel extremely alienating and it's so rarely discussed. You're not alone and this video definitely made me feel less alone. I'd love to see a longer video on this topic!
Yeah exactly it isn't acknowledged anywhere
yeah when men do it they get mocked and ridiculed lol, just keep going on with that misandrist sexism of yours. Women if your trauma isn't preventing you from meeting someone, it's your choice.
@@Iandrasill fo
incel is a word used by feminists to attack men
@@mikelisteral7863 I have noticed this in youtube comments, as well, but by talking about it in like in this video, people who identify with it can broaden the definition to include themselves and hopefully create empathy for those men, too.
I hate it when people say to those who are single, “You’ll find someone.” How do you know that? There are millions, many of whom are well into old age, haven’t experience romantic love (i.e., being in a relationship).
Edit: No matter your age, always remember that you are loved and worthy of love
How do you know that? You don't know how many people have or haven't had a romantic relationship. Headsup: every demographic you can think of has people in it who have or have had romantic relationships. Ugly, old, fat, differently abled, young and old. , You name it, they do it. Nevermind young, fit and beautiful. So, that's really not the issue here. It's about being there, and being accessible. You cannot be loved if you are at home glued to your mobile. If you can't find love in your area, spread your search further. Get out and into the world and find excuses to just meet people. Arrange your life where that is the priority and make connections, where you can meet people outside your circle, and build as many as possible. Network. Screw Tinder. Get out there. The world is a big place, and the more connections you make the better opportunity to find love.
@@BigHenFor How do you know that?
Every demographic you can think you would not fit the numbers and many people will left out, because the numbers are not pairs fixed. You can't put .5% of ten people with the other 1%, as a dumb example. People are not evenly distributed. Some places have more young, some more old, some places lack of men, some places lack of women, some places are not so densenly populated, etc. You get the idea.
Mating and having a romantic relationship is the norm, because of porcentages, but what about the ones who are not so lucky in their numbers? because of circunstances.
You are just no seeing that in the history of the world, not everyone have been capable of reproducing. You are alive because someone was successful into mating, but that is just a percentage of people. While there are another unknown percentage of people who didn't had any descendense, that we don't know of, we don't have any data for those who no one care that died.
really there are not ....the truth is they experienced it but their partner died or the marriage broke up and they didn't want to do that again ....i have experienced 'love' ...but there is no way i would want that relationship now ...so we broke up ..i don't know if i will find love again ..but ...i know lots of people who were married who now face old age alone because it didn't work or someone died etc ...
@@BigHenFor reading your comment feels like a slap on the face to me, i'm 25 and never been in love nor have i been in a relationship with anyone, i'm also introvert and i find it quite hard to open up to someone new, i recently just try to change and be more open, but the problem is i still find it hard to get connected/be interested in that person, i somehow feel like i'm gonna be single forever and won't have the chance to feel a romantic relationship like everyone else around me,to have that kind of thought, it always freaks me out tbh,i grew up thinking that my life would be just as normal as everyone else, meet someone, fall in love, get married, have children, etc, turns out life is so much more complicated than it seems
It's because, statistically speaking, most people do find someone at some point. However, there's never any certainty or guarantee and I'm tired of people acting as if there is. I've managed to find my first and current boyfriend when I was almost 24. It was by accident, too - it's scary to think how easily I could have missed him. I probably would have found someone else even then, maybe even by now - however, I can't be sure of that. The upside is that, even though I was convinced I'm going to stay single, even though I couldn't imagine myself falling in love and having the other person reciprocating or being in a relationship, my belief turned out to be completely false and in my head. However, I don't believe in destiny and I feel like without some luck, I could have very well remained an incel until now.
In college I was labelled as asexual, a closet lesbian, demisexual, aromantic, a religious nut. . . all because I told folks I was practicing celibacy. I craved "soul connections" and emotional intimacy, but I wasn't necessarily looking for sex. I think for a lot of Black girls and femmes, discovering our sexuality and exploring intimacy can be especially nerve-wracking because we are percieved as hypersexual (like as soon as I hit puberty, there were adult men and teachers who commented inappropriately about my "inherent" sexual nature). So we armor ourselves against those perceptions, trying toprove that we are than the words they attach to our bodies . . . but it makes it difficult to trust and to be vulnerable.
You're right, and it can lead to some unpleasant situations but, we have to persevere despite the assumptions people make. People see life and other people often as they are rather than how they really are. So, caution and assertiveness is required. We have to define and protect our boundaries in a world that often forgets we have them. So, I want to stop explaining myself to anyone else. If you don't get me, that's OK. Just stay out of my light. If you get me that's even better. Lol.
100% as a brown girl I feel thiss!!! Since I was 12 pedophiles were hitting on me. "YoUrE nOt TwElVe" ugh. I've been an adult woman since that age, we were never allowed to be a child after puberty. ://
(and let us have frieeennnds~ like damn!!!)
By the way you write you’re probably a fringe sapiosexual. Attracted by intelligence. Either that or you like being edgy.
Mammals are certainly closer to inherently sexual, than NON-sexual. Infancy is the time when growth is supposed to happen, towards conquering that uncertainty of life and not shirk into staying a toddler until suddenly you turn 18 and the time limit is up.
What you call labels now are actually IDENTIFIERS. This is what humans use to BUILD emotional intimacy, from BEING IDENTIFIED, recognition. If you just rely on it, like a craving for others to fulfill, it's not really that different from entitlement to any other craving. It's the EMOTIONAL equivalent of being a dead fish in bed.
Some people shirk sex because they don't feel up to it, but then you have to wonder what makes you up to the same adult connection on a MENTAL level rather than physical. Why is THAT your comfort zone and sexuality isn't? Since when?
Bc you don’t understand men and women are not the same smh we are not held to the same standards. It’s been this way for thousands of years
If u don’t want to have sex that’s fine but the problem is when women lie about it to get resources from other men
I sympathize with incels ( both male and female) cause it can really takes a lot out of you emotionally. You constantly obsess over your lack of intimacy, your loneliness and that can warp your mind. It can lead you to some very dark places when you never had that form of intimacy you crave and seems that others so easily have access to. And sometimes it can lead to self-disgust and loathing, you can even begin to think you're unworthy of love.
based
thank you for making us human when others won't even try. touch seems to decrease from birth & it seriously affects your humanity & mental faculty🙁
Christie Brooks stop it. Women can’t be incel
old saying I remember from south africa goes: the child that doesn't receive the love of the village will burn it to feel its warmth. Something I think about alot when it comes to the often traumatic personal history of folks holding incel beliefs.
Some of them are awful people tho. So🤷🏾♀️
As a cancer survivor, I have met so many survivors and patients of all genders who are celibate. Whether it be because they stopped viewing themselves as desirable partners, because they don’t want to cause future grief or because they just do not have the mental or physical energy.
Hearing so many deserving and lovely people say these things made me put myself out there again even though I was bald and fighting for my life. I ended up finding love in a former classmate who started visiting me in the hospital. We’ve been together now for 4 years. I may never be cancer free but that’s just something we deal with together.
Ur story is super inspiring I wish u the best and for u to keep up ur fight
as cancer survivor, i prefer lonlelyness cause i see tons of narcist runing in circle like ants scraping the leather off each other backs
tons of unesential suffering imposed voluntarily, need more debt, better partner, more kids, bigger house. dont have time, all i have is time but i dont have time. gotta live 2 life at once. its other fault.. i prefer being alone at this point and not play the ant-race. cancer can change your life. burn injury was more potent tho.
materialism have 0 value when your nervous system is begging for death at any cost right now
👍
Of all genders? Don’t you mean both genders?
Biologists have already proven that there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male. The Idea of only 2 Sexes is archaic & untrue.
I relate, people. When I was a teen, entering puberty and the age when we start to fall in love and all that, I had a severe medical condition that stunted my sexual development. My voice didn't drop, I didn't grow. I was so thuroughly shamed by not just my peers, but also my own family, probably not inteded to deeply hurt me. But it did. When I was at the age of my first crush and all that, I cried myself to sleep multiple times a week, because I was so ashamed of my body. I thought I would probably kill myself before I reached 25.
Some years later, I got medical treatment and it all sorted itself out. Now I look normal, have had interest shown by women. I work, I study, I go out. To people around me it's probably a mystery that I don't have a romantic life.
But in truth - I have never experienced sex or mutual love. I'm 26 and a traumatized virgin. I have had chances to have sex, but honestly it terrified me, and I sabotaged the chances. I'm so so so afraid of someone being disgusted with me. I'm afraid of feeling that shame about myself again. Afraid of how my body might betray me, again, and someone finding me disgusting, again.
It has nothing to do with women. In my early twenties I was falling a bit into the trap of thinking about most women as being sexually discriminatory and vain, and who never loved the men who deserved it (me), but I saw what I was doing and have since accepted that the wounds are in me. I feel unloveable, I'm afraid of letting anyone close, I'm afraid of what sex could do to me.
So I just walk around, engaging in life, in what I find important, and hope that someday I will find someone. Someone patient, someone safe, so that I too can experience that part of life that seem to make it all worth it for so many..
You know, someone once told me that the most commonly stated deepest fear people have is "not being loved for who they are, before they die". That is it. I have great empathy for bitter incels, because underneath that is endless shame, fear and sadness. It's tragic, and I refuse to add to their shame. We are all just humans, with cynical sexualities and thrilling romantic capacities that want someone to see us and love us. To many, they have been so traumatized that letting someone in feels impossible.
To me, romantic and sexual relationships have turned out to be the most difficult thing part of my life. Getting a masters degree, writing a book or pretty much anything feels easier and more achievable than having sex with someone feels. I want to heal my emotional wounds, and just hope I get there. We will if we persist :)
Edit: Guys, I finally did it! I lost my virginity to a woman who I had built a strong platonic relationship with at work. A few months ago we started to develop mutual feelings for each other. I was afraid of expressing it or even hoping it would be something, so didn't invest much emotion in it, but a month ago she finally asked me out for a picnic. We held hands then, and slowly but surely she initiated more and more, and I let it happen. When she finally asked me to sleep with her in her bed, I knew I had to tell her about my past and body. I cried in her bed, was sure she would lose interest, but I didn't change a thing. She was wonderfully compassionate and understanding. We built so much trust and respect for each other that everything just flowed naturally from there. We are still learning to be completely vulnerable with each other, every time, and it has been wonderful. She has no idea what she has done for me. I'm so relieved to be here!
Thank you so much for your comment. Beautifully and compassionately written
shame i would let you climb on top of me in a dark room & than leave. but before you go i'd give you your rating in a note lol
Same I had so much shame being a virgin til 28, so hard to bring it up with friends, family asking why I’m single every gathering, having to formulate vague comments to sound like I’ve done it before…finally did find someone patient and trustworthy to do it with and was like oh this is it? Wasted so long being in turmoil. But yeah dude good luck, romantic relationship and being vulnerable is tough. But everything is a skill that can be learned 💕
@@rachel4060 Thanks, my friend. People like you give me hope for the future :)
@@fromeveryting29 “everything will come to you in the right time and space sequence” ☺
Whenever I crave for company, I don't really think about it in a romantic sense. I just want a friend I can chill with and talk about books or something without the need of being all 'touchy-feely'. Can anyone else relate? 😅
Oh, Leonardo😍.
yasss Da Vinci i do relate! granted i am aromantic so :)
which book are you reading at the moment ?
yup
@@cocteautwin I'm aro ace too 😎
On youtube I found people who didnt identify as incel but as "forever alone". They seemed like genuinely nice people who have been bullied etc into a sad existence
Yes, I’ve seen them too. A lot of men which startled me at first, but male loneliness is an epidemic in and of itself which modern societies NEED to address (and quickly).
people treat you as you permit
victims
Female loneliness is sad. Male loneliness is dangerous.
@@thereisnosanctuary6184 Female loneliness also gets no attention at all, since we're just stereotyped to be good at communication and having support networks.
Expecting one person to fulfill all your needs is a heavy and unfair burden. I think the cultures that value community (Jewish, Italian, Hispanic, etc.) don't feel the same loneliness that very individualist cultures do. We aren't just wanting sex, but the feeling of belonging and importance to other people, to know that other people value our existence on Earth. It's hard to get that from one person alone, which puts unnecessary pressure on all people when it comes to "finding love"
This is why friendships have always been much more valuable for me. You’re not expected to place all your eggs in one basket, you can have a whole group of friends and they all complete you in different ways. Some friends are good listeners, some offer intellectual talks, some are just funny and know how to cheer you up but all these spheres of your life are equally important to you. With a romantic partner, you’re expected to find this one soulmate, otherwise you’re uncommitted and that just confuses me. I mean, it sound sweet but how plausible it really is?
I agree. It’s a lot easier for individuals who come from close nit communities to feel fulfilled. There is no burden on their partners to be their EVERYTHING. I came from a close nit community then moved to the UK when I was a teenager. I don’t know anyone back home, so going back is not an option. I have never made close friendships since I arrived. Always felt lonely even though my family is here with me. I have an overwhelming desire have lasting companionship, community and sense of belonging. I have no clue where or how to start as an individual in a foreign country I now call home.
Sis this is a misconception. Although from the outside Hispanic (Latinx actually) communities look close knit (and they are!) Latinas actually have the highest suicide rate, it can be isolating to be part of a large group that is happy. Another great example that is misconstrued is Scandanavia, Denmark has an extremely high suicide rate, especially among "outsider" groups. If you're not in on the group you feel isolated and see everyone else is doing fine, it makes you more miserable....this is a complex issue I could talk all day.
people expect too much these days
we are all victims of marketing
Move to a small town isolated from the city, if you want a sense of community to make up for your lack of intimate relationships. There are things one can do to experience that even in the Western culture.
I think this is also a symptom of the whole “ You have love yourself first before loving someone else”. Like it’s perfectly okay to want be a better version of yourself (for you), but you can’t negate the fact the people help you learn more about who you are and what you like.
It’s almost like this perfectionist view of being a better version of yourself is crippling people out of great experiences. I’m scared af for Gen Z and the future generations as we become more distant from each other…
interesting take
"People help you learn more about who you are". Yes, well said. Having an avoidant personality disorder and social phobia, I have an low sense of self-worth, am insecure in myself and find it difficult to believe that others can love me for me and want to spend time with me. I used to self isolate a lot because of it, and still do to an extent. The only way to fix this, after therapy, is to spend time with people that I love (because I can still very much love people, even if I don't understand why they might love me). By showing up and showing my affection however right can, I receive the same and slowly learn that I am a fun person to be around, and I'm an ok person in terms of morality, so why wouldn't someone want to spend time with me. You need interactions to understand this about yourself if you've never had that when you were younger. So, the "loving yourself before you love someone else", although true, isn't always applicable. It is not linear. You can't always create self-love by yourself.
it all just feels like an extension of societal neuroticism. Everything must be perfect and pure and tailor made or its all useless and not worth doing
Gosh I feel like this is what it is, to put it simply, overthinking. 😂😂😭 we make the issues bigger than what it is and this only halts our progress. If we actually didn’t care about things being right we wouldn’t care how many times relationships failed etc we would just keep trying until we found that one. I understand fully that me and myself are a big reason I am how I am, I truly wanna fix that but a lot of it isn’t on me though, being judged and such is also a societal issue and those issues result in people feeling like this.
Self Love is a lie it's false you can't love yourself
I'm 24, a virgin, and have never had a romantic relationship. I guess I would be considered an incel, even though I've never felt frustrated about the sex part? I've had the opportunity (one night stands and sex in general is very common and not taboo where I live), but I just never really felt that urge to "get it over with" as many people do. I definitely relate to what you're saying, even though I've never experienced any trauma regarding it. I would like to have a relationship, but I'm a little worried I won't be able to deliver on the sexual front...
But I'd say my greatest worry is that I'll be alone with no friends. I'm already very bad at connecting with people and only have about three friends. I'm dreading the days when my parents die, cause I'm sure I'll be very much all by myself at that point.
Wow, I feel like I wrote most of this. I'm a 23 year old virgin. I also haven't started dating. It was a choice for me, until last year. I haven't been in an environment conducive for me to date. And I feel like I'm ready, but I don't have any friends. L I don't want to get into a romantic relationship when I don't even have friends because it'll put stress on the relationship.
I honestly don't like the idea of sex, for various reasons including religious/spiritual and I think I'm slightly squeamish.
I feel like an absolute weirdo, but it's so cool coming across some people I can relate with.
@@LeratoM98 I agree, having your spouse being your only friend could definitely be a problem as well! I feel the same with my friends, I'm always worried of coming across as clingy, since they know they're the only people I really hang around with. I really don't want them to feel responsible for my social life and therefore feel obligated to hang with me. So I do push them away a little bit, so that they won't get tired of me. That's probably part of why I have difficulties connecting with new people as well.
I don't think you should feel weird for not liking the idea of sex, though! Thankfully, I've never felt any shame for my lack of interest in it. It's honestly very amusing when I tell people I'm still a virgin, they're always very shocked haha
@@alfhildr9678 That's understandable, I also won't want to be clingy. I'm on the introverted side, but not having a social life is negatively affecting me I think, so I'll push myself to get out there especially when I get the chance, like at uni.
True. Lol me too, people act shocked when they found out I've never dated anyone and they're soo irked, it's like some scientific discovery they're trying to figure out, I find entertaining.
Its like this comment section is talking to me.
@@LeratoM98 i think you re Demisexual or asexual.
This frank discussion about sex and celibacy to me has many allegories to the conversation about alcohol and sobriety. When you are not partaking in something which is "de rigour" in society - provided of course that it stays within the realm of "harmless fun" which sadly in the case of both sex and alcohol is a very fine line - it is so easy to feel like a weird outsider.
👏👏👏...
Hurts to admit it but, I'm pretty much an incel too. People say that women can't be incels, and I understand that the barrier for sex is really low for us, but it's possible to have barriers that are internal and not visible. Personally, I don't feel sexual desire without romantic affection, so casual sex is off the table for me. Yet throughout my life I've been taught summarily that "no man will waster their time on someone who doesn't spread their legs by date three". Which has basically sucked all interest in dating out of me.
"Personally, I don't feel sexual desire without romantic affection." I can really relate to this part of your comment. I feel the exact same way.
Stop believing this "no man will waster their time on someone who doesn't spread their legs by date three".
That's not true, and if you haven't find someone who is different to that, even if you find it true by experience, you haven't tried in some place different than the usual. Night clubs are not for finding a partner, and not a good start to meet someone. Find friends, let them help you, ask for help, let them know your struggle into find someone, trust someone, don't force yourself to something you don't want, but keep trying with things that you haven't tried or seen, maybe you are just not searching in the place you need to.
I don't think you are an incel. I just think you are a romantic, and for you sex=love. You need a partner who is also romantic, but you haven't made a realistic search for The One. Yes, romance needs a little realism to help it along. You need to be a bit more focused in your search. Where do romantic men hang out? what they do? If you don't present yourself as an opportunity to such men where they are , as someone to make a connection with, then how will you be found by The One? If all the men in your vicinity are Jocks, it means you're unlikely to find romance there. You have go where such men are, and make connections. Make the effort to find them, and start networking. Take relationships slowly, and never spend time alone in private with someone until you feel happy to do so. Be prepared to say No, if you're not ready. And let them go if they resent that. It's like you have to calibrate your inner BS meter by practice, and more practice. Treat dating as practice, nothing more. You don't have to commit to anything you don't want. But, doing hang around waiting to be found. Get out and make connections human beings. With the kind of people you want to meet. Do your research, and start going there.
If you don’t feel sexual attraction without emotional connection, you’re demisexual, and that’s fine - tons of people are that way. Modern ‘dating’ apps have ruined dating and when a significant amount of people are on them solely for hookups it makes things that much more challenging. The culture is broken.
@MsZoomification 100% this. There are men who will wait forever, honestly they're not all dogs! I was never attracted to dogs anyway!! (& who the hell is?!) It takes me months, but it doesn't mean I'm not sexual...just means you respect your boundaries and don't want to be used, that's just being smart. Casual sex is for some people but it's honestly not even as common as they've lead you to believe. The few women I know who do that I know end up regretting it or hate themselves for it.
I met a guy in college who chaged my entire perception of what an incel is. He wasn't bad looking but he was charming as hell and the thing is that he was actually good with women, we always teased him cause everyone thought he was a player cause he always had girls around him. One night I was talking about the subject and he confesses that even though he got to fool around with several girls he never actually got to third base with them, my first thought is that he was gay or something but he explained that he just didn't feel worthy of it, like his sense of self worth repressed him. I actually feel bad for him and hope he gets the helps he needs.
incel stands for involuntary celibate. In other words: women find you repulsive and would not entertain a physical/romantic relationship with said individual. How is this guy considered an incel if he anxious about sleeping with women that find him attractive and are willing to sleep with him? You should look up the definitions of words before start using them/labeling people with. You come across as ignorant.
That' a Volcel, not an Incel
I mean there’s bad incels n hood guy incels also how was he a incel if was good with women
Ok let's clear this up, this is to no one in particular I've just been getting notifications about this comment and thought I would expand on it
Incel refers to two things "involuntary" which means something done unwillingly and "celibate" which means to abstain from sex (emphasis on sex). Now if your definition of incel is an ugly dude who's a recluse from society and has no interaction with women then that's fine. What I brought into the conversation was an example of a dude who seemingly had everything going for him and whether it was because of trauma or mental problems it literally made him involuntarily turn down sex from women who were into him. Now if you don't get the trauma angle then watch the video again.
Why? He's free and he doesn't realize it.
i relate a lot with this video. Since i was 18 i felt the preasure for not being sexually active or even having a relationship, when all of my friends were in one. I have always been the single one. I am 32 now, and the idea of even having a romantic partner is completely absurd for me. I dont have any hope anymore. Sometimes i really feel like something is broken inside of me, something is wrong, or i was just born unable to connect with other human being. It is really sad.
Not that this helps at all, but I am sorry. I really am.
yeah it's not good when aversion & growing disgust is increased by unresolved anger. you start to think you are maybe an animal or some droid from another dimension. and ANY talk about "g_d" PFFFT forget about i🙄t. they are so rude arrogant & ready to shove it in your face that if you don't believe you've committed some horrible crime against them. whatever 😒
You are not alone on this feelings , I'm 35 I'm about 90% of given up once I hit 40 it's a done deal I will have to accept love was not for me ..
I feel you
@@6688ya What caused your superstitious belief in "40" being a magic seal of fate? Maybe dissolving that issue might help you feel more at ease.
I've been without a partner despite wishing for one for a while, due to a number of reasons (being gay in a rural area, being socially awkward, having my share of issues), however I would never call myself an incel, and I would take offense at being called such.
The word has too much a negative connotation in my eyes now no matter its original intended meaning, and those we commonly refer to as incels are not people I'd ever want to be associated with.
I think being a virgin het man is a very different dynamic to being a virgin gay man
I think it’s clear that Incel is now a synonym for this misogynistic online cult of self hate and self pity. There is plenty of ppl out there who don’t have sex and are lonely but are not hating on other humans
So, in effect, you’re doing the same thing to them that you hate them for doing to others.
It’s important to understand that Incels are not naturally angry people. They became that way because they are socially ostracized. Which, I might point out, is what you implied in your post.
The issue with incels you fail to see, is they called themselves such to group themselves on an issue well before becoming bitter. To them, they grew angrier while failing to solve their problems while people like you, most likely, saw them as angry by default and then joined a group about their anger.
There was a literal story about a bitter incel who got sex from a girl who was paid by his friends in hope it would stop him from being bitter, and it did. He sumed it up as thinking he was falling behind his friends in experiences, be left out, and abandoned eventually. They said 2 years later after being an angry incel for 3, he got married.
And its never one's responsibility that others don't like them. Hate for people exist regardless everywhere. The only solution from that type of comment is to control your partner, not exactly a smart argument.
@@furyberserk So are you saying that it's everybody's else's fault if a lot of them became bitter and hateful? That girls should give them some just to make them feel better?
And I'm not really sure what you mean that the only solution is to control your partner..
"We practice "social monogamy" ... in theory" lol! Yeppp! As a sexologist, I often remind people that being celibate doesn't mean you're not whole. We all need other people in our lives, nobody can do this sh*t alone. But, the pressure to put it all in romantic relationships is slowly making us more and more alone. The hierarchisation and how transactionnal we make our relationship kills them from the start, I think. We can't really be vulnerable if we have strict but unclear ways to define our relationships.
That's not a real job
@@thereisnosanctuary6184 are you kidding me? Lol. My degree would say otherwise.
Friendships are so much more important to your wellbeing of people would put in the same amount of energy in building and maintaining friendships instead of finding romantic love people would’ve be way less lonely (and would probably also find more romantic love)
@@Laura-gd4ku absolutely. Romantic love like that and the thoughts that our partners have to fulfill al of our needs puts on so much pressure on everyone. Let's trust our partners in their ability to grow and help them grow instead of controlling what scares us.
@@saml.purecats4695 Yes and I think we shoul all aspire to have more (or deeper) friendships and make that a lifegoal instead of focussing only on romantic love. If romantic love comes into our life thats a wonderful thing, but we are complete without it!
It's better to be alone than to be with the wrong person, and with society the way it is today there are alot of wrong people out there.
Thanks for this vulnerability and compassion. I'm now in my 30s and still a virgin-I've always struggled with beauty, and having certain deformities and blemishes in the gay world has not helped at all. For a time I could ignore it, but as soon as I began to fall in love it became unavoidable. It's SO hard to describe the type of pain and loneliness that comes from not once receiving attention, and feeling in your bones that you're unlovable, undesirable. The bed will always be empty, and the hand untouched. So the mind says, anyway.
You are loveable ❤️
@@Danceofthesugarplumfairy ❤️
@@AurorXZ If you are in the bed it’s not empty, your hand can touch your other hand. What anyone really has is themselves, and a family if fortunate.
What's even more difficult is if these feelings of undesirability are socially reinforced, more so in the gay world. If you don't look a certain way, you're done. It scared me in the beginning that maybe this is what induced my aromanticism, but at this point poverty and depression has messed me up so much I can't worry about it anymore. And because I never really felt romantic attraction in the first place, maybe I can readjust my strategy to earning enough to pay for some adult fun time. I am so tired of punishing my body that WON'T CHANGE to a certain shape just to get some meat in me. I would rather just pay for it than destroy my body and mind.
Awh❤
I think this video is part of a conversation that definitely needs to be had. I am a 22 year old man who seems to have all of the characteristics of an incel minus the bitterness and misogyny. I have never had a girlfriend, had sex or even so much as been on a date or held hands with a girl. I feel like people like me are becoming more common in a society where people are able to completely alienate themselves socially. This is definitely spurred on by the endless novelty of things like the internet, videogames and pornography none of which am I opposed to in principle, but I see real danger in overindulging in as I often do. I feel like the easy access to all of these things during adolescence allows kids like me who always felt like outcasts to sidestep the most important periods of our social development by allowing us to immerse ourselves in idealized fantasies instead of actually confronting our real problems. It is very hard to try and learn the ins and outs of dating and romance as an adult though, because the only people who even offer actionable advice for young men are pickup artists who, while sometimes offering advice that works, are mostly full of shit. Even when the advice they give works, it only works for certain people, whose primary goal is casual sex. For me sex without a romantic relationship seems like something that while fun, would quickly begin to feel empty and meaningless. That said, a life full of depression and nihilism has lead me to believe that most things in life are empty and meaningless and that love is one of the only things that feels real at all. I became a romantic as a survival mechanism, because if love and romance aren't just real thing, but something I will eventually have, then I see few other things that are worth living for.
Wow, very well said. I think your comment resonates with a lot of us, both men & women.
I find a lot of these expectations and ideas about romantic relationships and losing virginity to be half-understood. Some data suggests that 3/10 people never had a romantic relationship or lost virginity. That makes them labeling them with weird or outlier status incorrect from a statistical standpoint. Sure it’s not the average situation, but you can’t walk down the street without at least that proportion of passerby having a chance of possessing those labels. That’s not something to sneer at.
@@RlRmPd It's just hard not to get cynical when you see happy couples walking past you all the time wherever you go, and you don't even know how to take the first steps to get to that. When you talk to these people they often try to gaslight you, saying things like 'it's not a big deal' or that you should just settle for someone that you're not very attracted to. It's very condescending. There's no shortage of beautiful women with great personalities in the world so who are they to tell me what I can't have.
In 30 and kinda in the same boat......it fucking sucks!
@@Rexcarsalot Thing is, you actually have to do something about it, if it bothers you. I also had my first kiss, first time holding hands, first sex etc. with 21 years old.
And I did work my ass off to find a boyfriend at 21. I challenged myself everyday to work out, approach men, ask them out, deal with rejection and heart break AND keep fighting. I'm now in a happy relationship for 2 years and really am feeling thankful and a great attachment. I did get a lot more tough, going through being suicidal to pushing myself to get what I want although having heartbreaks and feeling lonely. Just like you who doesn't necessarily feel happy or empathetic about a couple's happiness, the couple isn't necessarily nice or empathetic towards your situation. However, it's for you to decide how badly you want to change your situation or if you want to change something at all. I wish you good luck. You have written a very accurate comment.
It's nice reading these comments of people who can self-identify has incels, but not the internet's trope of the bitter, misogynistic male incel (or femcel).
I used to jokingly tell people "I'm not sure if I'm asexual or just not over growing up autistic and catholic", until I realized that I really didn't know. I spent many years getting really good at nurturing friendships, and currently have several close friendships which are a really fulfilling part of my life that meet many of my emotional and social needs. I didn't know how to get the information and guidance which I had needed to get to where I am in friendships for sexual and romantic relationships. I think people sometimes underestimate how difficult it can be to figure out how to navigate relationships of any kind when your experiences or way of communicating are even slightly outside of what is considered normal.
I reached a point a while ago where one of my friendships started feeling more like a partnership to both of us (I call them my companion). Within the context of that companionship, I was able to ask the kinds of questions I needed to understand sexual relationships in a way which made sense to me. I came to understand that I just really didn't have a lot of the sexual needs that most people have, and I don't find the idea of seeking mutual sexual gratification desirable. I do have a lot of needs which people usually only meet within sexual relationships - physical affection, emotional intimacy, etc.
My companion is polyamorous, and I'd become really comfortable and familiar with that way of understanding relationships over our many years of friendship. Actually, many of my friends are polyamorous - I've found them to be more able and willing to be emotionally intimate and physically affectionate outside of amorous relationships, and that's part of why I find myself so fulfilled by my friendships. The idea of having to find one person who could fulfill most of my needs and whose needs I could mostly fulfill seems far-fetched and undesirable to me, and the idea of feeling secure in a relationship without having some sense of reciprocal ownership seems much less so, perhaps because I understand relationships primarily through my experiences of friendships.
Anyhow, I guess I just wanted to write into the void that disability can make relationships of all kinds hard and it's often overlooked, and that loving friendships are really great and also often dismissed. Maybe someone will read this and feel less alone. I know I do imagining someone doing so :)
I'll leave you with the passage from which we got the term "companion": "There is a part of us which from childhood is absolutely alone. When we fall in love we imagine we have found an ultimate assuagement of loneliness. This is not so. In a true marriage or a near friendship what in fact is found is a companion in loneliness." - qfp.quaker.org.uk/passage/22-05/
I have always found such solace in Quakerism and Quaker writings. Thank you☺️.
as a friendless ass i feel even more alone now.. good for you i suppose
Beautiful sentiments, life experience, insights, compassion - and expression thereof. Thank you for sharing your truth! Much of it I can relate to.
@@vivvy_0 I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you find other words which speak to your condition ❤️
Kinda crazy seeing such a positive enviroment in the comments. Whenever I talk about this I get a mixed response of insults and confusion. For the first time, I'm somewhat comforted on the topic.
It's like everyone is playing a game, but I'm the only one who does'nt know how to play.
As a man, opening up about this is the quickest way to get people to dislike you. It's the lowest of the low to fail sexually. It disgusts them. They label you instantly.
Nobody wants to help either. Mention loneliness and people practically run away. Maybe it's the same for women, but unfortunetly, I don't see it. It seems either rare or (judging by the comments) hidden.
I'll never forget how confused my dad was when I asked for help. It seemed like I was asking how to breath. By the end he probably figured he made a dud. That's the same idea people get when you mention it. Failure, at the most basic level: animal.
oh i get that
At least you asked him. This takes courage!!
Yea man.. they tell you to just do this and that but it isn’t as easy as they expect it to be, I actually want it to work if I didn’t care I could easily just keep trying to talk to women for it to all just fail couple months down the line. Shit if it even gets that far,
Im an attractive guy I get all the validation and all of that but I am just not in a good situation, and Ik that it would cause me to get judged. Im 21 never worked a real job, barely can drive, still stays with my people I don’t have my own room. It’s just so much shit. But wen I go out in the world people wouldn’t expect the half. They judge me based off how I look, they think I’m just this super player guy and I get laid all the time but in reality I only had sex a couple times and I been in a couple relationships.
When I tell them that they either don’t believe me or they tell themselves something must be wrong with me. Idk I just feel like I’m too good for this world sometimes, I just wanna meet a whole bunch of people like myself someone really needs to create an outlet for people dealing with stuff like this to connect and engage with eachother. I’m starting to think that’s the only way we’d be happy, finding like minded people who understands eachothers boundaries and are willing to work with eachother free of judgement. That’s all I desire….
I feel a lot of shame about this, too. I'm sorry your dad reacted in that way, though. That honestly sounds traumatic (not exaggerating).
Hey Ive confided in female friends about this before and theyve always been supportive, trying to build up my confidence so yes some people are assholes but that just means you should get to know more people to find the good ones and weed out the bad ones
So glad someone is finally acknowledging this reality. I also researched the history of incels long ago because I felt so alone in my experience but also knew that the misogyny and self-loathing of incels/femcels didn't apply to me. Though I too have experienced sexual trauma and can relate to the awkwardness of being a sexual/romantic novice so to speak, TBH even if I had a perfect upbringing, I think I'd still be in the same boat. I'm 31, and I swear I've always been virtually "invisible" or just generally undesirable when it comes to romantic/sexual relationships. I can count on one hand the few times in life anyone has expressed interest, and still nothing came of it. Other than that, I seem to either go unnoticed or preemptively told that I'm not wanted (the nerve of some ppl smh). Now after developing a disability that makes me even more undesirable, I'm starting to wonder if I should just make peace with being alone and focus on my career, health, and the few (platonic) relationships I do have. Thanks for being willing to self-reflect, which ultimately allowed you to create a cathartic moment for all of us lol. Literally no one else I know can understand this experience, so it feels like a waste of time talking about it. At least now I've shouted into the internet void lol.
I call it "Romantically Invisible" because generally folks know you're there when they need you for your time/labour
Thank you for not falling into the internet incel/femcel hole despite being involuntary celibate. Loneliness is a feeling people have nowadays. Its okay to have them and its okay to not want them without thinking everyone around is somehow inferior.
As a 30 year old bi guy its ALWAYS wild to see how common these experiences are among women.
Idk why but a part of me just assumes that all women have some kind of a sex life and romantic experiences.
probably because you expect men to always approach you
women who are even remotely average looking can easily find someone if they seek it
I'm 33. As a teenager, I wasn't attracted to the boys in my school. I had friends but at the time I had never felt sexy or sexual. Then in my early 20s, I dated a little but would cut them off when it got to the point where they wanted to take the next step. I was celibate because of my religion but naturally, I was a late bloomer sexually. When I was 27 I started feeling like I needed to have a companion to grow and build with. I was very busy though. I was involved in 2 ministries at my church( I'm a guitarist and was also a youth leader) and I was busy in school. I was starting to feel like I needed to slow down and focus on what I wanted for myself in my personal life.
Long story short, I ended up getting married the very next year. It's been 5 years since I've been married and I must say that it's a good feeling knowing that you have someone that will look out for you and a companion to do things with.
My advice to those who are wanting a life partner, I would say that you just be patient and don't give up hope. I never had the defeated mindset that I would never find someone. I believe that when you put negative things in the atmosphere, it blocks your blessings.
I really appreciate this comment. I was just honestly curious as to how you see disability factoring into this hope that you mention? Some of us need round the clock care and can't work or easily go out and find people. I know there are examples of people who have done it, but they are very much the exception and not the rule. I even had a member of my own family do it back in the 1800s, but her husband was also a rich European nobleman. Thanks so much! Best of luck in your marriage and I hope you have many more years to come.
@@ACrownofFlowers Well your circle can connect you with other people. Match makers. Or church circle
@@Kneekneee good ideas, good ideas. That just seems kind of inorganic, like in my opinion you should just come about naturally and if it doesn't that's also okay. Thanks for your reply, though, I appreciate it. Really thought-provoking comment! 😁
@@ACrownofFlowers True but waiting around for some to "appear" seems a bit unrealistic in your circumstances. Family/Friends gatherings or parties where people mingle and connect you with mutual friends seems more promising. Even if you don't find your wife, you may find a life long friendship.
@@Kneekneee true, that has actually ended up happening in quite a few cases for me.
I definitely am involuntarily celebate, due to being disabled and living in a remote location, but I don’t mind it, honestly. I had a depressive episode a few years back where I was able to unpack everything and sort it out, and coming close to organ failure last year really puts things in perspective. I haven’t given up on finding a life and sexual partner, but I don’t achingly long for one. I know I’ll find someone someday, because I’m worthy of it, and until I do, I’ll work on myself to be as stable and healthy as possible so I can pursue opportunities when they come along 💕 seeing my sister find a perfect partner definitely gives me hope that I’ll find someone just as good for me one day, so I know it’s possible.
You are 💯 % right.
23 and a virgin. Am i afraid of emotional (let alone physical intimacy) yes. Cause if we cannot accept and tolerate ourselves, how the hell is anyone going to completely accept us in order to get to that level of intimacy and care?
*Sex does not mean intimacy necessarily and you do you mates.
All i am saying is... We exist and we are in need of company. And also... We existed pre pandemic (that felt important to add)
Cause if we cannot accept and tolerate ourselves, how the hell is anyone going to completely accept us in order to get to that level of intimacy and care?
We often find attractive the faults of others. Many times more that the attractive traits that society classify as standards.
Would you rather drown or swim? You will have to get your feet wet someday. If you learn to swim, you have a chance of survival. Staying on dry land is an option, but a hollow one. Are you prepared to be the person you are looking for? Can you make that a priority in your life? The process matters more than the destination in this. Going through the process of acquiring the skills and traits we are looking in a partner is the most constructive way to grow into being ready and available for an intimate relationship. This is why Thought is necessary but not sufficient. Action is required.
Yes I just feel this is a pervasive notion but wrong.
I can tell you I come from an arranged marriage culture, many people feel this way entering the relationship.how could you not when dealing with life.
But In the act of trying to make a healthy relationship it is very healing.
Other people are the mirror through which you can learn to love yourself.
The volume of trauma and introspection in this comment section is stunning.
How bad the emotional front has gotten for our society is... I don't think it's exaggeration to call it a crisis.
Thank you for the honesty and vulnerability that have gotten this big ball rolling. I had no idea this many people were in a similar boat to myself.
finally i can relate to someone on this topic, sometimes i wish i could go back to early teenhood to live out sexuality at a time when i was young and stupid and less cautious and hesitant, but even back then i was so scared about it. the dream to simply be sexual, without dark connotations.
I'm 21, I've never had a girlfriend, I'm not that bad looking that I can't get anyone, I'm also fit, currently building a physique for the mental health benefits. The thing is, I'm very reserved, and that's a characteristic that I find very attractive in girls, someone who doesn't care about Instagram like it's a game and spends their time taking pictures in front of a mirror, stuff like that is a turn off for me. With that said, I do find many girls attractive, but it's purely visual, it's very rare for me to find someone who I'm actually attracted to, who I really think about and wanna spend time with, and when that happens, what I would like is the emotional connection, not the sexual connection, I'm still a virgin and I'm kind of afraid of that type of intimacy (of course, it would come eventually).
I hate hookup culture, I don't feel the need to lose my virginity and just have sex for the sake of having sex, I just don't really care about it, I want shit to have meaning, I want some feeling, something to make me feel alive, like I'm worth something to someone in that sense. I'd love to go on trips, see beautiful sights, share music, movies, experiences with someone that I love and feel loved back, that's all I actually want, and yet, it's just so hard find it.
I barely know anyone who is heavy into instagram and selfies and stuff. I think there's way more of a stereotype that women are into that stuff than is true in average.
Glad to see some people I can relate to. :)
👏🏼
Same
I’m 21 as well bro, I’ve did the sex thing just to do it and truly it doesn’t really fill any void, I watch people around me who have relationships and that’s the type of love I desire, I’m attractive but I’m reserved as well but that barrier can be broken it’s just yk in todays age nobody is willing to take that time out to do all of that, they’d rather judge u and move on. I’ve had relationships n all of this before but this was in my school years, out
Of school is a whole different ball game for sure. I don’t have a job I still stay with my people no car it’s like I have the life majority of the people in this society would scold at, that’s why I just don’t get that close to ppl. All of my friends have girlfriends my brother has a girl I live with my mom and my brother’s dad and their married.. so all I’m around is couples and it just makes me feel worse. I honestly don’t know what to do and feel like maybe I will die alone who knows. But I’m just trying to better myself and get my life together hopefully everything else falls into place even tho I doubt that I’d just magically make anything better
Thank you for this video and making me feel less lonely. You are such a beautiful combination of intelect , honesty and empathy.
Thank you for being here. And your words mean so much; you’ve no idea🥲.
This video resonated with me a lot. I'm a woman in my mid twenties, and I have autism and adhd, meaning I've never really enjoyed the company of people. I would love to have loving romantic and sexual relationships with others. I daydream about it, write about it in my stories, but I have horrendous social anxiety. I'm scared of getting hurt, and I'm scared of imposing my difficulties on another and hurting them. I know that the models of perfect love we see on tv and in media aren't necessarily realistic, but it's easy to feel lonely and left out, even when there isn't a pandemic on.
well put, liliputt 95
I became celibate after a traumatic experience. I’m a single parent and live far away from my support system. I’ve never felt more lonely or invisible in my life, I’ve also never experienced the kind of peace and stability like I do now.
If you experience peace and stability, you are not lonely or are not invisible. If doesn't have a neggative effect, then you are not there and that's fine, keep up with your life and have a peacefull happy one.
i get it
Yes, feeling deeply existentially alone and at peace, single and sexless, is a strange and powerful contradiction that can exist.
i get this to a core. Most toxicity is cut out of my life. Things are at a standstill where i can breathe for the first time ever and its lonly asf but its chill. I could die happy like this tho so I wouldn't trade it for the world.
This is so me. I like being alone and yet i loathe it.
I think it's super brave to be out here on the internet getting real like this. You're probably helping a lot of people!
I feel like an incel sometimes bc when I think about my appearance and personality and past experiences I can see that I am not someone most people would be sexually attracted to bc I am a black woman and considered the complete opposite of beauty by western society, but at the same time I have to consider that I am very young (20) and in the midst of the pandemi* have not had much opportunity to meet potential partners. I also think it’s more voluntary than involuntary on my part because I think if I really really wanted to be intimate w someone I could just get on some dating app and there will be many people who just want to have s*x but that isn’t what I am comfortable with and I know I wouldn’t be happy w it. I do think I am an incel in the sense of romantic intimacy though, I feel it’s a lot harder for black women/afab people to find healthy partnerships
I very much feel the same way. Especially on being involuntarily celibate. As embarrassing as it is to admit, I've been so eager to have sex since my teens and I'm 21 yr old virgin simply because it's proven difficult to find people who are attracted to me as I am to them. And not living up to societal beauty standards doesn't help either.
@@CrazyGzay same! i was very hypersexual as a teen and sorely disappointed by the lack of mutual attraction I've experienced so far
I can relate to you, i'm a 21 year old black heterossexual woman and I also find it hard to build a meaningful connection because most of the people I like don't feel the same way, just like most of the people that like me I don't feel the same. Since I spent alot of time "obssessing" about finding the perfect partner I decided to take this year to myself and just focus on my life and some personal issues that I have because those may also be a reason why I failed in building a connection even when I had the chance to but was to afraid to go further and possibly face rejection. My advice to you is to not despair and most importantly don't listen to societies opinions, even if the circumstances seem that they are against us we are worthy of love and we will find it in the right places, wether is from family, friends, hobbies or within ourselfs, there is so much more out there than romantic love even if we crave it, and learning how to live our lifes thinking of the possibility of not having it but still being okay with that situation is truly powerful.
@@CrazyGzay you’re doing your job as a female with sexual selection. On the surface it seems as if it’s just about ""connecting"" with people but it’s natural selection.
The dating app thing is so true
I think it’s worth being careful with this, because “incel” is an inherently self-victimizing label. Yes, absolutely people have been through external trauma and it is a difficult process to deal with that. I would be surprised if most of the misogynistic “incels” aren’t traumatized in one way or another as well… but dealing with that I think requires a process of retelling your internal story in more positive ways. To me, applying “incel” to yourself yields control of your own life in a way that may not be productive.
It could be that it is helpful for a time, but I would never want to get stuck there.
It's often difficult to realice that there are people who struggle with loneliness or touch the theme, because that therm is used as label to censorship their opinions or argument of someone who dissagrees with something, when comes into the narrative of the experience of someone with a different life than the usual romantic experience lifestyle, it's true that there are people who are not a partner choice from anyone (if this comes from a intrinsec characteristic, disability, personality traits, different circunstances is often dismiss). It's being used as a invalidating label the same as the therm "virgin" often comes with the identity of the geeky or nerdy guys/girls.
That label is not only a bad choice of words, but not good for the conversations that we need to have.
This times the society have a real problem with loliness, a silent pandemic with too many people struggle, and it's an issue that not only the elder or disabled struggle, it's a big hard problem for today society. Depression, suicide, stress and more people devoid of meaning and meaningful connections, it's affecting to a large group of the population anywhere, and they come from the same loneliness.
One single label, stops us talking about this.
@@chikitronrx0 I am specifically talking about people using this label on themselves, which is what the incel community does.
I mean, trauma is such a broad term here that it depends what your trauma is. If it's someone who's using it to describe feeling like an outcast/being bullied and using that to justify being a misogynistic rapey asshole, that's not ok. But that's a big difference to say, a woman who's voluntarily incelibate because they have trauma from being raped, and now can't trust someone to be partners with, and who hasn't become a rapey asshole.
@@red_velvetcake1759 Yes, trauma is not an excuse for adults to treat others poorly. It’s a framework you can use to help understand people, or even groups of people as sociology does, but adults are generally responsible for their behavior individually.
Even in your analysis, you say “voluntarily”, which I am contending is more empowering than saying “my feelings make me celibate, it is involuntary”.
What I am suggesting is that using the involuntary self-description is inherently disempowering*. That’s all.
*For either group
Burying your head in the sand and trying to delude yourself you don't have a problem doesn't sound like a very constructive way of solving it.
The uploads hitting hard in '22
Respect to you for this. Can't imagine what it took to voice this to thousands, but I hope u spoke for some of them. Hopefully this doesn't send u down a rabbit hole like me, but the manosphere would have u believing every woman out here is getting more attention and options than they would know what to deal with. This video is a quite a bit more realistic to people's struggles, less black and white
Well put, buddy.
You've gotten a lot of respect from me for going basically going: ''I thought and said X before and upon hearing a different view point and doing research and investigating it further I believe something different now.'' Bravo, I think that shows real humility.
I'm disabled and this came up in my recommended and I just wanted to say that disability, especially if you're disability is visible in any way often makes it hard for people to even consider you a sexual being, so while I'm not a virgin, I can say that intimacy is not something that happens often for me or other disabled people.
I agree and as a black woman I think it would be easier for me a none rather than hoping to find a partner who I am compatible with.
@@Frederique41 completely agree. I wish that people were more open-minded, but you can't really force anyone to be attracted to you in that way. Like we can't lie that it's mostly because of cultural reasons that people feel that way, but of course intimacy is something so personal that it doesn't make sense to get mad over it. We should still have reasonable standards. I hope you are able to find someone.
as someone who has been married for 10 years, I have said many times that if by happenstance, I had not met my husband at a very young age, I would have ended up alone, and its a VERY interesting thing to navigate in a marriage to feel these ways, but also to love someone very deeply and intimately, but intimacy is also not always sex either. And thats one of the biggest things that have helped us to navigate.
Can I just tell you that my eyes teared up at the “intimacy is not always sex” part? Thank you so much
Love your fresh take on incels. We are not all entitled misogynists living in our parents basements! We're just people that (for one reason or another) find the cultural expectations around sex crippling. I'm also intrigued by the term "voluntarily celibate" (aka "volcel"), which means to choose to give up sex for a defined or undefined length of time. However, not all of us have as much control over our loneliness and/or sexual traumas, so the term can be misleading for some.
If you're not a misogynist, you're not an incel you're a failed simp
I've been volcel my whole life as a trans person with really strong gender dysphoria. I don't have control over my loneliness or sexual trauma, the trauma of being sexualized as the wrong gender was just way stronger than those other feelings. I've always felt that I'd rather die that be seen as the sexual object society expects me to be.
@@v0id_b0i_89 too many pre packaged words in your spiel
@@theemperiumofkek1362 If you're not familiar with queer terminology, google is free. It's not my concern if you don't prioritize educating yourself.
@@theemperiumofkek1362 "If you're not a misogynist, you're not an incel you're a failed simp"
Translation: I don't want to have to admit that men can be virgins for reasons that have nothing to do with misogyny, so I'm going to redefine the problem away.
Even though I’m in a committed relationship with another woman- just wanted to comment to say loneliness finds us all, and your videos are a great comfort, it’s lovely to see so much solidarity here 💜
I'm a woman who used to be extremely ugly in an unorthodox way which resulted in people not just rejecting me as a potential partner but persecute me for my natural looks. Lucky for me, I wasn't interested in dating any of the troglodytes who surrounded me at the time but on the other hand it made me believe that men must be some primitive dumb apes who I have no will to please. For a long time I honestly had no idea there exist decent men out there, it was a baffling concept. Over time I learned how to change my looks. Turns out all of my issues were tied to dangerous genetic issues which had to be treated anyways. At some point I started looking pretty but I was so used to men being not interested in me (or aggressive) that I had a hard time understanding what to do with situations when they suddenly liked me. I was never even thinking about being with anyone because it seemed like such a bizarre concept that I didn't see the point in wasting my time thinking about romance. Eventually, I found love of my life completely by accident without looking for it but it took a long time for me to get used to someone liking me and I would often sabotage this relationship because of all the trauma from years of persecution. Luckily, it survived but I do understand incels nowadays. I can't justify those who hate all women because they feel entitled to sex but I understand how they became this way. I never started hating men because I felt entitled to sex. It was always completely reasonable to me that people wouldn't want to be with me. But bullying and persecution are things I expected people to NOT do and that's where my grudge lied.
If you sabotaged this relationship but it still survived you guys are meant to be. Good luck to you and I’m happy to hear about your success
What medical condition did you have, if you wouldn’t mind sharing😅
You're a unicorn if you're a hot girl with an ugly girls self-esteem
@@loopymomy2532 horrific logic by the way. Horrific.
@@ikilledthemoon I don't think troglodytes was meant in relation to their looks but in relation to their intelligence
Thank you. I feel validated. I don’t hate women. I don’t hate anyone. I feel no entitlement to anyone’s time. I just find it hard to connect. So hard. And I don’t like being alone so I probably come off as desperate. And there probably is a sense of desperation. I’ve had a lot of family issues and I feel like no one could want me. In any sense. But I just want to connect and feel human but idk how to do it with my experiences. Or lack there of.
for me I just don’t understand how to put aside all the issues I have to date somebody. when I think about trusting anybody, I am actually terrified. I have so many insecurities I don’t even know how I could be with somebody. and suffering with pretty bad anxiety too is like the icing on the cake lmao. I think I’m just supposed to be alone :(
Hey, I read your comment and I think part of the problem here is that you aren’t meant to “put aside all the issues you have” to date somebody; rather, you pursue dating as someone aware of your issues and you try to work through them as they come up. I am by no means a relationship expert and I struggle much in the same ways that you describe, so this perspective purely comes from what I’ve learned and experienced thus far.
But I think ultimately we can’t really compartmentalize ourselves when it comes to relationships, especially relationships that have some sort of intimacy interwoven into the dynamic. More than anything, I think, it isn’t about being a perfect version of ourselves prior to entering any relationship, but in giving ourselves permission to be seen and loved and accepted as the person we are right now, and allowing ourselves the possibility to be open to such care from another human being. I really feel that this is what holds so many of us back, that we do not feel lovable as is. But you *are* lovable, right now, as you currently are, and you don’t have to deny yourself of the potential to receive that love if you don’t want to.
I think truly acknowledging this can be one of the most difficult things to do. I definitely struggle with this all too.
@@Amber24426 this is such a good comment! It's so hard but yes, you are right
Agreed. Starting to think I’m supposed to be alone too .
I’d like to have a loving relationship but life’s so hard and looking so bleak with Covid & all the social isolation.
Society isn’t happy anymore at this point.
And a physical relationship is the catalyst to one thing; reproduction.
And why bring an innocent little baby into a world that we’re all so unhappy in??
It’s time to love, but it’s not a time for reproduction.
In my opinion men and women should still date and still share intimacy weather physically, spiritually or both.
But don’t bring a baby into this mess.. not now
@@Amber24426 Wise words!
i think i''m an incel/femcel because my whole life i had been taught that guys mostly just want sex from me. i'm pretty reserved and was quiet when i went into college, and there were a few guys who were interested in me. but because of my personality and what i had been taught i thought that they only wanted to hookup, which i think was true with a few of them. but there was one who liked me a lot, and i sorta regret not doing more. we had a lot of the same personality traits and he really wanted to get to know me, but he wasn't attractive to me at all which was the main reason i never took it further. i regret it now because i'm almost 23 and have never explored romance/intimacy. tbh i don't think it would have worked well in college since i was so self-centered and still working through trauma. i'm thinking back to college, where i had just started making my first new friends since MIDDLE SCHOOL. i had the same friends from middle school throughout high school. i was just starting to figure out how to make friends, so the thought of being in a relationship never even crossed my mind. i still don't have the whole friend thing figured out, but luckily i now know the red flags and am a lot less anxious when talking to new people.
Hi, frogs and flowers,
it seems you have come a long way during the course of your life. I have been a late bloomer when it comes to the whole "making contact", "gang of friends", "social circles", "trusting people" and "finding intimacy" thing. The concept of "dates" still eludes me. I am an introvert, I prefer 1:1 or small number get-to-gethers over clubs & parties, I don't like sharing personal emotions and intimate experiences in public, I am very shy and feel awkward when it comes to first confessing/showing romantic feelings or sexual desire. For years and years I thought I'd be an eternal failure at it, I first confessed love to somebody in my last teenage year and remained a sexual virgin into my early twenties. Having sex, while being a beautiful experience for me, didn't change much about my relationship issues, though. I have hence had only two intimate relationships, both break-ups ultimately meant being the one left behind. But if I have learned one thing from all the people I have met in more than four decades, it is that it's never too late to find an intimate and meaningful connection to another human being - and sex isn't key to that (sometimes does not even have to take a big part in it). I now have a few good friends (could be more; or rather from more varied walks of life...), two or three special friends who sort of "get" me and whom I deeply care about, and while still feeling lonely quite often for lack of cuddling (and only occasionally for not having someone to share erotic intimacy with) I am blessed with a better understanding and care about myself now than I used to. When it came to sex, contrary to my anxieties beforehand, things just came naturally and became fulfilling even without any/much experience in that regard. I attribute it to the right people at the right time willing to share these moments with me. They did help in bonding, but a bond based merely in sex isn't worth much, and I am happy that I never fell for that widespread misconception.
In short:
"Virgin" & "incel" are abstract social constructs that need not define you in any concrete way regarding personality or self-worth or with respect to what you can contribute to the well-being of yourself or other human beings.
All the best to you!
In the same boat with making my first friends since middle school in college (am in college right now). Even doing that is extremely difficult for me, so I greatly envy people who seem to be able to pursue romance and sex so easily. I feel like I have so many hurdles to get over compared to other people who had experiences, made friends, got out there into the world in this early to mid teens.
I'm also in the same boat with getting less anxious talking to people, discovering boundaries and red flags, etc. Hope everything works out for you, I can relate to so much of this.
@@TheReMorseCode You will be fine, just stay open-minded to what/whom-ever might come your way, and eventually you will connect to someone who feels just right at the right time and place. It might not last forever, but it might help you find out some more things about yourself. Then again, that's always something you can also do on your own. Interpersonal experience just speeds things up, and even that only if you fall in with the right type of person for you.
@@elfsieben1450 Thank you for your lovely comment, I'll keep it in mind.
I've ID'ed as asexual all my life and always thought friendships would be enough for me, but as my friends have less and less time for people they don't live with, and as transition has made me more okay with my physical body, I've been wondering if its possible for me to have romantic relationships. I've always been good at being alone and finding hobbies to entertain myself, but the isolation caused by the panorama has caused a loneliness I've never felt before and I'm not sure how to deal with it. I've had to question a lot of the things I thought I knew about myself.
I am an elementary teacher trying to switch over to nursing. I know I need to focus on my studies and in order to pay for it, I want to go into the military. I have no time for relationships and yet I don't want to be alone either. It absolutely sucks like this and now that I just turned 30 I'm afraid I'll never get married or start a family even though the whole reason why I'm going into nursing and eventually a Nurse Practioner is to support a family and be the perfect father figure. I'm afraid, I don't like being alone and wish for companionship but it is encouraging I'm not the only person who is going through this. Thank you for your message and advice.
I've kind of admitted to myself that i could consider myself an incel. What irritates me most is the assumption men make, when i express my insecurities over this issue. Especially the assumption that ALL women can have men's attention served to them on a silver platter when it hasn't been the reality in my case... and it only happens if you're a conventionally attractive woman. I never get any attention, and if i do its purely sexual. They use me for a quick feeling of euphoria, and when that fades, i get dumped and it's like nothing ever happened. Although this technically doesn't make me a celibate, the lack of intimacy and long term desire certainly make me feel very unwanted and unlovable. I keep hoping this changes, but I feel like I've already resigned myself a life of feeling like this.
I get that, Fran. Just having sex when you want so much more does not satisfy me either, so I stopped having it. I'm in a similar situation. No matter how compatible I think we are or how optimistic I am, they lose interest or aren't looking for anything more.
When I was young, I had this vision in my head of the perfect partner and starting a family. I've met people who've fit that vision, but it never worked out with them or anyone else. Never more than a month.
Unfortunately, that’s the outcome of reducing sex to a commodity. I know people don’t like to hear this, but there was a reason societies always placed limits on sex. It isn’t just meaningless fun. It isn’t just a biological process. Sex without intimacy is destructive. Especially to those who wish for intimacy.
The simple truth is that the casual sex that was pushed for the past 50 years has been an absolute disaster for everyone but the top 20% of high value men. They are having a great time. For everyone else, it has destroyed intimacy, wrecked families, and left people adrift struggling with the pain, fear, and loneliness.
I truly do empathize with women in this regard. I was fortunate enough to be raised in a religious home, and I met a religious woman through church. There, it is still expected for men to respect women. I knew if I ever wanted to have sex with this woman, I would have to make an emotional and spiritual connection with her first. Had she simply given me sex instantly, then I would have had no reason to do the hard work of bettering myself to attract her. But those outside the dwindling religious communities have to deal with a culture that demands instant gratification and celebrates selfish, narcissistic people.
@@TheSpicyLeg I'm not religious anymore but I have been thinking about the drawbacks of modern society. We're producing fewer and fewer men that women actually want, and fewer and fewer women that men can actually find companionship and love with.
Nothing has changed for men that are super rich, or are perceived as high-value. They will always be able to secure a wife, if not real love. Athletes are a good example. They're fit, rich, a bit famous, masculine, and their wives are often gorgeous, feminine, and quickly become mothers. Those are probably the most appealing men in the general population. Charisma and intelligence might not be great, but it's the female version of marrying a supermodel that likes to cook.
@@ryanalmighty2630 I agree in general, save for the bit regarding high value men. While it is undeniable that the top 20% of men have essentially free access to sex, they are not statistically more likely to have a long term, functional marriage and what we would call love. The cohorts that do are upper middle class and religious communities. The latter is more obvious, but the former often confuses people. The reason this cohort does so well is competency, in my opinion. A make doctor will marry his receptionist, if she is feminine, fertile, and has skills that complement his own. He brings enough resources in that a woman feels secure, but not so much that he can easily and painlessly trade her in for a younger model.
If you’re a man and not in the top 20%, you’re in for a struggle. If you’re a woman and not between the ages of 16 and 30, you’re in for a struggle. That is the paradigm brought by modern society.
@@TheSpicyLeg You're point about hook -up culture leading to more lonliness needs to be talked about more. I've thought about this and people hate to admit it. I think the overall conversation about relationships, "incels", social media, unrealistic standards commodifying sex, and the nuances of dating in this modern generation could go into more depth. It's a thematic phenomena not just impacting one person even though it feels like it is. Good point!
Yes this is me. It is painful. I know part of my status is due to my phenotype and how it is perceived in the USA. I am a heavy set dark skinned african american woman. Although i have a lot going for me, I have a PhD , many hobbies, I travel, and I earn a good salary, men are so fickle hear, they dont want to see beyond wether you are White or Biracial here. And frankly the White dudes here, even the very obese ones, arent checking for women whom are also larger.
💔❤️
Just pls know you are able to control many things - though it may feel as if you're at the mercy of others (men)!
The same way you stepped up and earned your educational credentials, you can set personal and relationship goals and succeed.
What about a starter goal like, 1_Accept and Celebrate one awesome personality trait that someone seems to like that eventually builds to, 10_Strengthen and cultivate gestures of caring and friendship with a targeted person who is also nice to me, to see where it goes?
I don't know you, but I feel I understand - I want you to win!
~ blessings 🤗
@Ganta Igarashi I totally understand where you are coming from, but doesn't it suck if she is comfortable in her own skin and has to lose weight just to find a man when there is probably alot more going on in her favour besides looks, it's a sad world we live in unfortunately.
I’m not saying you absolutely should do this but, have you ever considered weight loss surgery? Tummy tuck? If I had a PHD and your type of money, the makeover I’d give myself would be astronomical! I’d look like a damn Barbie Doll
The fact of the matter is that 95% of diets fail. People with certain genetics (African American, Jewish, Hispanic, etc) just tend to be overweight and the only tool medical professionals have to combat this is weight loss surgery, such as the gastric sleeve and gastric bypass. There are top rated board certified surgeons who do amazing plastic surgery, almost as an art form. I wish I had just $10,000 for a new body.
This is my last comment- it has ZERO to do with your skin complexion. High value men won’t be with a fat white woman either, but plenty have slim dark skin women
I’ve never understood the ease in which some people are able to find partner after partner. I dont have sexual trauma but I was abused emotionally as a kid/teen and severely bullied by my peers throughout school which resulted in the same fear you described of intimacy. I’m happy to say though that I think I’m finally coming to terms with the fact that certain things just may not be in the cards for me and even if I do somehow manage to find someone maintaining that connection will likely be a lot harder for me then it is for others. I definitely relate to a lot of what you said.
I hope this doesn’t come across as insensitive but after watching a few of your videos recently (before viewing this one) I thought that something traumatic must have happened to you. I wasn’t sure what, just assumed you must have been through some serious things because you come across as someone who is very intelligent and I find most people are too busy or I guess so caught up in their day to day lives that it never occurs to them to really think about/explore certain topics and therefore they never end up reaching the same conclusions. I find myself agreeing with a lot of your opinions and I know for myself I would have never reached the same conclusions had I not spent the majority of my adult life in isolation with ample time to read and explore my own interests. My ideal partner would actually be someone like you that shares many of the same opinions I do and can relate to the fears I have of intimacy/commitment but I think being that we both share those fears we’d therefore be unlikely to put ourselves out there and never end up connecting on that level. Still, it is nice to just know that similar people exist. I very much enjoy your channel and look forward to future posts.
I often marvel at how some folks find partner after partner too. Even some who aren’t conventionally attractive, young or small find partners with ease, even have them lined up in some cases. It’s always mind-boggling to me.
Therapy!
@@Cranberries87 dont get it twisted tho, something wrong with them. Im sorry but my sister is like that. I kid you not she stays with a guy for like 6 months and then when they break she have a new guy like in two weeks, no not even one week. I dont envy these people because it is terrifying to do that and there is no pride in that.
@@Cranberries87 I know someone like that. She craves being in relationships. She think that is happiness and she gets depressed if she not in one. She becomes emotional clingy. She gets depressed if she is not in contact with them for a while. Many of her boyfriends are pieces are crappy people. She not emotional ok. I wish she would understand it’s ok to be single. She clearly needs a breather from relationships and work on her emotional health before being in another relationships or else she gonna continue being in this cycle. It’s not good for her kids or her being with her being with crappy people
If a man made this video, the comments wouldn't be so supportive. Still. I'm glad this issue is finally being acknowledged
22, virgin. I only kissed someone for the first time when I turned 20. I’ve never wanted a relationship per se, but more someone who I could connect with. Only then would sex, imo, become desirable. I’m a bookish and creative person, and I’ve only ever wanted someone who I could speak my heart to without bound or limit. I’ve only ever wanted to hear the same from someone else. It has always seemed to me, however, that I have to play a social game to get to this point - I have to appear to be this or that, say this or that, and only then can I break the threshold of distance to become intimate. There is no way for someone who simply enjoys life, all its highs and lows, to simply live and connect. We have to put up with interpersonal drama, politics, and so forth. We must mask ourselves in facades.
I have disdain for this game, and so I don’t play it. In consequence, I am often alone with my thoughts and writing is my only release. I publish from time to time, but the game of appearance is a worthless one. I only want to experience someone else wholly and fully, and for them to experience me.
Eeeek. 31 year old woman, over 3 years single/celibate, and feeling more and more identified with being demisexual. I think I've seen it as a choice because I know I could probably find a partner if I lower my standards and lie to myself, which I kinda did to an extent in the few relationships I had in my twenties. It's my choice to no longer lower my standards in order to feel (often the illusion of) emotional intimacy which I do want. I seem to have less choice in having the relationship I deeply desire. But I'm also incredibly avoidant, kinda socially inept, and have barely put myself out there in 3+ years so who knows. It's unclear how much of that is a result of trauma/mental illness/neurodivergence, how much has been a natural pull to ~focus/work on myself~, and how much is from limited opportunity for whatever reason. What a depressing topic. But I agree, it's an important conversation to have. Much more nuanced than is commonly represented.
As a young man in my early 20s I definitely relate hard to many of the points you made. I want a partner, but have had no luck in finding them. I recently had been struggling with feeling unlovable and a failure, it's extremely comforting to know I am not the only one having this problem. I feel that a large part of this intimate disconnect is due to the internet. People are more connected than ever yet when it comes to in-person interaction we are lonelier than any other point in history. Dating apps feed on this desire and frustration and turn it into a gambling game in which society loses while companies make profit off of our loneliness.
I really respect your honesty, you deliver everything with such dignity (esp hot takes)
I've never been romantic with anyone, I grew up learning from my parents and classmates that I don't deserve it and that's something I internalized. A girl would have to throw themselves at me and that's not really something that happens when I feel too ashamed to go to social events. Now that I'm 30 it definitely feels too late and it's one of the things I think about when suicidal thoughts creep up. You're supposed to have a "body count" or at least a long term relationship or you're a failure after like 18. And it's not even a media thing, I'm comparing myself to my friends and coworkers who apparently just pick people up like they sell them at a store? I feel trapped because I know it would be so awkward to explain to any new partner.
I’ve been there. It sucks. Things didn’t really turn around for me until my early 30s. Try dating as many people as you can and I think you’ll be surprised at how little explaining about your past you’ll have to do. If you find someone who’s too hung up on your lack of dating experience, then they’re not for you. Best of luck to you! :)
I think its all about accepting yourself.
@@Kareena1988 easier said then done.
@@alecgurney9305 and still the only way
visit this channel here on youtube @social animal
This video truly altered my opinion on incels. Long comment alert:
I absolutely agree, whenever I heard the term ‘incel,’ it would immediately conjure images misogynistic men who somehow feel entitled to women’s bodies and affections. I can’t tell you how many men have interacted with me and tried to befriend me under the guise of just sleeping with me and becoming absolutely furious that I gently reject them. The cries of “well I’m a nice guy!” when they are being pushy, demanding, and objectifying still ring in my ears. I know there are women who are absolutely the same way. NO ONE should feel as though they ought to have access to someone else’s body, no one. And I do think an obsession with “corn” and online sexual fantasies have encouraged those toxic mindsets. (I’ll get into that more in a second.)
They simply project all of their grievances as a societal problem, instead of an internal issue. Like, an entire gender have a conspiracy to deny you sex because you’re just too good of a guy doesn’t make sense. There is no personal accountability at all.
However, there are thousands of people that are involuntarily celibate because of internal issues that go beyond just “well, I’m not hot enough.” Trauma, abuse, social awkwardness, among many other things all play into part here. My own sister is an incel, and I would NEVER have used this word to refer to her before. Due to emotional abuse to endured growing up and the deep-rooted internal shame about her weight, she is absolutely terrified of being intimate with someone for fear of mocking her or rejecting her in some way. She is 27 and has never had sex and was actually confessing to me the other day that she is terrified of being unable to have a partnership and a family because she is just so afraid. She prefers those little videogames where you have hot guys and you control your responses, you know? I love her to DEATH and couldn’t understand why she wouldn’t just “loosen up” but I was completely ignoring her emotional trauma.
I think, for a lot of people, it’s the fear of intimacy. Not just the fear of physical intimacy, but emotional intimacy. The fear of being vulnerable with someone else. My sister and I have totally opposite sex lives and experiences, but I am realizing nowadays that I have a similar fear of that. While she cannot allow herself to be sexual with anyone out of fear of emotional rejection, I have had sex with way too many people who didn’t care about me or know me. But sex was just…hollow. It meant nothing. I am perfectly fine preforming sexual acts but receiving them makes me shut down entirely and I become so deeply ashamed and afraid that I refuse to let it happen. That someone caring about me enough to take the time to pleasure me? I can’t allow it. I was actually sitting down and thinking for a second these past few months: all, ALL of my relationships have started under the umbrella of just a casual sexual encounter. The thought of having sex with someone that loves me FIRST and then wants to be intimate with me absolutely terrifies me and I cannot even compute what that would be like.
I think we live in an over-sexed, under-loved world. Sex is absolutely everywhere yet true love? Where do we see that? Anywhere? I was watching The Marriage Story last night and frankly, it terrified me. I am absolutely terrified of falling in love with anyone because what if I make the wrong choice? What if they are mean to me or a terrible parent or fall out of love with me? What makes me so lovable that someone would want to love me unconditionally? I don’t even love myself that much…or hardly at all. All we see are dysfunctional relationships portrayed by our elders, our toxic situations sprouting from Tinder, and horrible situations reflected in media. Of course it’s safer to retreat into virtual reality where no one can see you, you can stop it whenever you want, no one judges you, and you’re safe. But what we crave, CRAVE is that true and genuine love from another person. That sex is part of that love and that sense of belonging and comfort brought to us by someone that accepts us as we are. In a world that teaches us that we are never good enough and shouldn’t even trust our own judgement, how can we hope to find that? Humans are animals, and I think society has forgotten that.
Edit: from what I can see in the comments here, I guess what I’m trying to say is this: there are several contributing factors as to why dating and romance and sex have been warped and twisted in the past several years. I do believe that Tinder and even pornography as a concept has altered people’s ability to form healthy connections and normal views on sex. I suppose the difference between the kind of incel that Kid is discussing versus what society says is that Kid takes personal accountability. She understands that due to her own trauma and self-esteem issues, she is unable to form normal connections. The difference in typical incels is blaming society for all of their love problems and not taking any examination in themselves. Is society fucked up? Absolutely. But if every single woman you ever come across rejects you, then maybe…just maybe…you’re the problem.
You still have a prejudice about those people even when you have someone at your side who is the same as those people.
So do you think that all the cases are just misogynistic man entitled or you would stop to think that maybe their case is not different that many others and their emotional response (angry) just comes from fear or frustrations.
At the end of the time, you and them are the same, lack of meaningful connections, i don't know you and i don't judge you, just citing what you have written about how you start your relationships and why you struggle to let in someone who cares about yourself. That's not different at all.
I mean, both responses, the men you have encountered, and yourself comes from the same fears, what if i make the wrong choice/move and that end up wrong.
Then why your response at the same things coming from different people is different? those are confrontations, and why it comes from you as the same, is confrontation with your fears of a truly meaningful connection with a partner.
is that a gender bias or a lack of awareness.
This is the thing that i've seen into many people who don't seem to understand the society problem with loneliness, and the "incels", etc. Those fears are not exclusive, that detatchment and disconnect is shared among all the people. Just because we see some as entitled, misogynistic or anything, that bad connotations stop us to dive into what's the root of those problems. Those are people, even if you dislike them, those are the same as any others, no matter their gender, no matter their circunstances.
It's not a new thing, those people are not something that came up from anywhere. This is a thing that has been there since the beginning of humanity. And we see it as a problem now, because of the connected world.
This is not different of elder (or not) people dying alone, the "hikkikomori" agoraphobia people who don't go outside of their houses.
This new labels and the prejudges that comes with them are the real harm. We are creating divitions, where many of the struggles comes from the same.
So the real and important question here is, where this loneliness come from?
'love' is a bio-chemically produced perception that gets people to have children with one another. And I'm afraid that in every society some won't get to experience the sense of well-being that comes from being part of a family, from losing in life via their experiences, genetic makeup, health etc.
Your sister likes Otome games? At least she's a woman of culture.
You have compassion when it comes to your sister, but you can't think of any reason other than misogyny why those men would react in such a way when it comes to rejection? You think it's misogyny and entitlement? The lashing out, the misogyny as you put it, is a symptom of repeated emotional trauma. Those men probably got rejected dozens of times. They didn't come out of the womb or come out of puberty as evil woman hating entitled men. They have scars, and repeated rejections exacerbate whatever personal issues and depressions and traumas they are already dealing with. And the way that they have coped with it is unfortunately to lash out. But I can guarantee you that they're not all evil. They have all the emotional trauma that your sister has, just in a different way. The hypocrisy in this comment is just ridiculous. But I won't call you out further on it. I'll just put it down to a gender bias. I just hope you realize that these gender biases are part of what keeps the stigma of being an incel alive, especially when it comes to men.
@Ceiling Fan Yes, because I was an incel for many years. From 18 until just before age 30. Luckily I didn't travel down the misogyny road very much because I always had female friends, and this was the mid 2000s to the mid 2010s so I didn't have a Reddit account, but I certainly remember how it felt and I had a lot of time on my hands to work through those feelings. And the way that society has demonized incels without understanding or trying to understand how they got to that point, especially when it comes to male incels.... It's just tiresome to me. And all it does is continue the cycle of loathing. It does nothing to help the situation or the people involved.
Humans are social by nature. Not many are good at being alone. More power to loners, who really don't need anyone. I'm not strong enough for that.
Hello kidology, and people reading it...
I thought about sharing
first is amazing here we can start a conversation about it, and reclaim the word not as something to point someone as not worthy
Being from mexico here we have lot of sexism (patriarchy) but rarely is toxic mascunility talk about, men are not the only with sexist ideas women do too sometimes, and celibacy is something that is often view as something wrong with the person, generally a man, where mocking can come from men and women.
I found myself in this situation and also the pandemic changed everything for me and also found myself friendless
But im OK.
I really like we can take a humble and compassionate look , instead of throwing more negativity to this problem, which make it worse.
I always like watching your videos and make the little hamster in my brain work a little, today this was different, this video felt like the warm hug I sometimes need
I’m so glad🤗.
I relate to your comment a lot. Thanks 🧡
Closeness can be scary. Finding someone to trust feels impossible. Making yourself completely vulnerable to someone, and having that vulnerability answered with support and safety feels like something that happens to other people. Here's the rub: it doesn't have to be. There's no reason that it can't be you. And as long as you can hold yourself high, keep your boundaries, talk about how you feel, and be ok with both having needs and the possibility that they can be met, you can learn at your own pace.
You're self aware and you're up front about your personal truths. You'll find a good person when you're ready to look. No rush and no need to judge yourself. This shit takes time to figure out.
It just makes you feel so out of place when you are around everyone else and their paths isn’t going like yours. Everyone else has it so easy like there are men who don’t have anything just like me, but unlike me are toxic and have horrible quality’s, yet they are still able to find people. Maybe it’s just me and my fear of not wanting to be judged but damn, i atleast want to find someone who understands me and is willing to take that time to get comfortable with me. I get my whole life assumed and I meet none of those expectations. All I have is a handsome face in societies standards. I don’t have the materialistic stuff I’m not doing good in that regard in my life and it’s like, idk that internal fear is what I believe makes my life hell like this I just have to break that man.. because honestly I’m not that far from becoming the man I dream to be, yet in my mind it feels so distant
i think there’s just fundamentally a lot wrong with societal expectations that you should be super sexual experienced by the time you’re in your early twenties. it’s just not true for a lot of people, mostly those who don’t enjoy casual sex. it’s really quite common for people to be virgins in their early twenties, especially if they haven’t serious relationships (which is a lot of people at this stage in life!!). Acting like it’s rare or weird just contributes to a cycle of shame and avoidance.
It's old expectations that haven't caught up to modern times. The boomers didn't live in the same times and world younger generations are living in. Back then you genuinely did tend to be married with children younger, and if you go back farther in time, how young you were when you were married / had your first kid might strike you as creepy.
It's basically like, pre-modern socio-economic expectations put on postmodern people. It's a miss-match that hasn't caught up because it got baked into culture and is going to take time to transition, if it does at all.
It's the same energy as boomers blaming millennials for not buying houses and they just don't realize how crazy difficult that is for millennials compared to how boomers had it.
I was technically an incel before I met my bf. I had been groped by a teacher when I was 16 and was very scared of men. I was so incredibly lonely and I wanted love. I met him on tinder the first hour of getting it. He is the only person I was able to share my body with. He is comfort and kindness. I hope others can find what we found too
Aww makes me happy you found comfort and kindness. God bless you
Want to thank you for this. I have a beautiful close family member, he’s everything to me but he’s been single for a long time now. He has everything locked down, great job, amazing family and well rounded, very handsome… but he’s just not super outgoing. Consequently he’s been single and celibate for years. I know he would like a family of his own. He deserves the world. It hurts me when people say incel in a pagoritive sense because he in no way deserves any reputation for being misogynistic or something undeserving.
I'm sort of incel. As a male, and a gay one, I should be extremely reluctant to admit that. What you see and hear of gay men in the media is that we're hedonistic, sexually free, and always up for it. For the past several years I've had sex perhaps three or four times. I don't meet many gay people, and when I do I understand it's common to have it three or four times a month, if not a week. There are a few reasons. I'm uninterested in anything penetrative. I'm introverted. I'm socially pretty lazy. I rarely connect with anyone and when I do it's usually asexual. I do like and enjoy it, but I accept that I'm not most people's cup of tea. It is a mental struggle, and has been for years, to overcome the idea that I'm deficient, not good enough, not a proper gay, a reject, etc.
😔
U do not need to be a proper gay as i do not need to be a proper hetero.The way we express our sexual dessire is not written and should never be
this kinda hit me hard, I could have written this
All sex for pleasure is hedonistic. If you can’t reproduce, then even engaging in thoughts of a sex is hedonism to degree.
As an asexual person, while I'm not the same I absolutely feel the social pressure and fear of intimacy. I also was raised in an incredibly cold and distant household, and may be romantically traumatised by past relationships, as the thought of having a special someone is just makes me incredibly anxious, I never want to be trapped alone with anyone, and fear if I care too much I'd do anything for someone regardless of self preservation.
I go with the antiromantic label myself, not necessarily as an inherent orientation, but as a learned aversion. It's kind of infuriating that the misogynist crowd who dominated the incel label, seemed to have ruined the reputation for those in a difficult state due to trauma, particularly women
i had the exact same realization that i am a female incel a couple months ago; i’ve known that i am involuntarily celibate since i was a teenager but the realization that i am by definition an incel didn’t hit me until that moment.
it wasn’t one big traumatic event that made me one but a lot of little moments and beliefs planted in me from a young age from my religious community that i believe has rewired my brain to be terrified of sex (not necessarily the intimate emotional connection but purely the physical act of it and all of the fears of the unknown, pain, etc). i didn’t know that it was normal for people to go through a sexual exploration phase in their pubescent years until much later in life because mine was so full of internal shame and guilt that i thought i was an anomaly. it mostly involved me looking at inappropriate content on instagram and feeling extremely aroused to where i couldn’t stop looking, but with tears down my face because i believed what i was doing wrong. hearing sermons on purity at church didn’t help either.
i’ve had plenty of intimate moments with guys but i’ve always set limits before things got actually sexual. luckily those boundaries have been respected, but i’m terrified that i won’t be able to satisfy whoever i’m meant to share my life with. not only that, but my situation has left me never having used a tampon as a woman in my early 20s. i tried to get examined at the gynecologist because my period has always been painful and inconsistent, but i had a meltdown when the doctor barely touched me. it’s been a very lonely thing to deal with; the majority of women my age i’ve talked to struggle to understand what im going through. i’m working it out through therapy right know, and i’m very optimistic. it’s refreshing to hear about other women who also struggle with this.
purity culture and the backlash to the “sexual revolution” has hurt a lot of people, both men and women, trust
you might have endometriosis. i would look into supplement DIM, serrapeptase & MACA. look for supplements that balance hormones & make sure IRON & iodine intake are adequate. eat more cabbage as well
A friend of mine has similar issues, although not connected to religious brainwashing or moral stances on sexuality, maybe still going back to how men were seen and experienced in her birth family.
Let me tell you that erotic self-exploration is healthy and can help a lot in finding out about yourself, your simple pleasures and hidden longings and current boundaries, and how to express and process all of that mentally, sexually and verbally. Using your own bodily sensations, emotional reactions and endogenous phantasies (as well as empathy, sympathy and trust) are probably the best starting point for a fulfilling journey into sex.
Let me also tell you that being able to satisfy whomever you share your life with does not depend on your sexual make-up at all but "only" on whether you are the right people for each other under the given circumstances at the given time and whether you communicate well enough to find that out.
@@enginerdy This reminded me the last time I was getting intimate with a woman I met that same day, I really wanted to have sex with her, and she wanted me too, we were kissing and touching but then it got confusing because I haven't been intimate with a girl since the pandemic started, i didn't connect with anyone, i didn't even got hugged by anyone and she told me she went through something similar, so it became this wierd thing in wich we wanted to had sex and at the same time we just wanted to hug. We felt like we were connecting for real, so she eventually told me she did not wanted to have sex that day, she told me she had an issue with sex, and we fell asleep hugged by each other. When I told my therapist what happened she told me that my abused inner kid came out and asked for a hug instead of let the hunter (her words) push for what I want, sex. Even if I made clear that the girl was also feeling vulnerable and did not wanted sex that night. Even if she knows my story with sex and how almost need to switch personalities to be sexual. It felt so emasculating, almost felt like I was being made fun of for respecting her and not led the moment like a master of sex, even if she was 5 years older. Yes I know how to be charming and I'm good at flirting but I've been feeling very vulnerable lately for my lack of human connection and intimacy but aparently that is romantic thinking and we should get rid of that. Because sex is healthy and everyone should be ready to fuck at any time otherwise there is something wrong, their inner abused child still governs them. So yeah the ideas of the sexual revolution also hurt people, a lot, actually.
@@dr.octavio5772 Your therapist is either a lunatic or you really misunderstood her.
Not everybody wants or needs to fuck 24/7, there are other kinds of intimacy.
There's so many people who end up single well into their adulthood and yet every aspect of our culture is geared for the process of monogamy, and depictions of singleness are either hyper sexual or weird and pejorative
probably the most relatable video I’ve seen in recent times since this is a subject I’ve been reflecting on for months and just recently beginning to accept that I’m lonely and not alone by choice.
personally I’ve always identified with the term involuntary celibate but detached from its generalised incel meaning. I’m not resentful about being alone and I’m desired by many, I also haven’t any relationship trauma but still I fear intimacy and the vulnerability it takes to sleep with someone. all of this leaves me with very high standards and a tendency to push people away. I’m still getting to know and learning to love myself and I think that’s the biggest reason why I’m still in the incelzone
The degree of vulnerability you display on this channel is tasteful
tasteful is the word
I am, in a way, both voluntarily and involuntarily celibate. Childhood trauma definitely played a huge role in having self worth issues and a repressed sexuality, which is why I was, considering the society I live in (urban Europe), a late bloomer, when I became sexually active in my early 20s (turning 30 this year). I had a couple encounters, a serious relationship, a little bit of dating, but I've been celibate again the last couple of years and even though I experience loneliness or the desire for physical connection, I'm not rushing to change my celibate state at the expense of my independence or mental health. It definitely helped to realize that casual sex doesn't do it for me and that superficial qualities like status, looks, etc. aren't the foundation I want to build a loving, caring relationship on.
I'm so sorry for what you have experienced. It's awful and no one should ever go through that.
On your beautiful thoughts, I just think that being alone is different than being celibate, tho.
In general, women are the gatekeepers of sex. But making the decision to be sexually active does not mean you won't feel lonely. Just like being celibate does not mean you will (feel lonely). They're not necessarily related, as it depends on the quality of the relationships.
I beilieve they're two different things, and that being alone is ultimately your choice, either because you're looking for something that matches your expectations (delayed gratification mindset) and you're getting ready, or because you prefer to stay out of the dating world entirely.
And it's okay to have expectations, as long as we match those in oursleves as well ;) it's the ultimate socialization test, and it's worth it, in my opinion ❤
Thank you for starting this immensely vulnerable and relatable conversation! I have never typed this anywhere on the internet but here goes. I'm 30 and I've never had a romantic relationship. I've sort of had two, one was mostly online and the other one which was in person barely lasted a few months. So I've never been intimate with anyone either. Not to mention my very conservative and emotionally unavailable parents don't help the matter. Now that I'm in my 30s I feel pretty lonely when I see others with partners. But at the same time I don't want to put myself into that whole emotional chaos of romance again either. I'd love to have a healthy romantic relationship but even looking at my friends I feel like they are so few and far in between. So I thought regardless of what people thought of me, being single and celibate at the age of 30, I will simply do what feels right to me.
I'm single and not ready to mingle. I love sex. I love dating (sometimes) but I've realised, I really love my life. I love not having to factor in another person. I love having money and being able to spend it how I like. I like being able to move to another city if I want or even a country. I love being able to eat what I want without having to have a conversation about it. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I spent time over the Christmas break camping with a friend and her partner and it was lovely. I felt genuinely happy to see how much they love one another. At no point did I think "I'm sad because I don't have that." I just thought "I'm happy they have that and I'm happy with my life." It took me a while to get to this point. I've had relationships and I've dated a lot and I realised the pattern during those times was that I was always unhappy. I always felt relief when the people would leave. It didn't matter who it was or how much I liked them. I was always like "phew. They are gone." The second they left haha. Having the space away from dating and relationships and whirlwind romances allowed me to chase my dreams. I realised that I want to be a doctor and maybe my life was meant to be devoted to something outside of myself just not in the traditional sense of marriage and kids. Anyway, wish me luck. I start MD school next year.
I'm 27 and have come to realize that relationships are a privilege, not a human right. Especially in this day and age. Lots of people are privileged enough to get into a relatively happy, successful, and stable relationship while a lot of people "don't make the cut," e.g. remain incels/are celibate voluntarily. Even more people get into unstable/dangerous/abusive relationships, like my own mother. Three horrible relationships in a row and was abandoned with more children than the last time.
I'm content to be alone for a number of reasons. I don't like the inevitable reality of the power dynamics (woman = submissive, man = dominating). I also find that whenever I tried to enter one, that I would have to perform things I didn't want to (anything sexual or romantic at all, I'm neither and find it cringe/embarassing when they try it on me). I'm still a virgin thankfully, most I did was oral. Even then that was only three times. Last is the privacy and energy depletion. I never had my own space growing up, still don't, and probably won't until I'm in my 40s, which is a shame but oh well, better late than never. And I spend most of my days diverting my energy towards friends, family, co-workers, and customers. When I get home, I don't want to see another face.
Sure, I get scared of dying alone; however, I'd much rather face that fear than the fear of being in a marriage, with a man on top of me, impregnating me (possibly more than once), carrying his child(ren) for nine months, ruining my body like it happened with my mother's, and having my offspring inheriting whatever genetic diseases both me and my partner have. The con of one outweighs the cons of many.
Interesting name…
Have you considered the fact that you might be asexual and aromantic?
@@riari6980 No, because I like the idea of having sex, and I also have the capacity of being in love. There's just too many moving parts and reasons that make both disinteresting, and ultimately, unfeasible.
"A relationship is a privilege, not a human right" that's a great take. For example, marriage has always been a privileged institution. Economists have long argued that marriage rates are lower in poorer and less well-educated areas because men in those communities aren't good financial bets. It's crazy when you think about it.
@@mimia.4810 Why is it crazy?
I am a celibate because I had so many failures in love that it became tiresome and very painful for me. I had enough but now, not worrying about not being alone made my life more peaceful and I ended up loving even more the loneliness. I can run my life with my own rules and don't get involved in other's people's dramas. Just fantastic.
I have never experienced love but I have dated so I v become celibate
I would love a video on the history!!! I love how this video kind of touched base personally with you , your experience and ur development of ur ideas changing. It felt raw and authentic and having moments where you’re not just sharing pieces of information but sharing ur own ideas and experience is really nice :,) I loved this one!!
Thank you for this video. It feels good to be seen or even acknowledge as a human being and not as an object or creep.
(warm hug) This takes a lot of courage/balls, and a lot of character. Much respect & appreciation.
I think you've hit on a key point, which is that a lot of societies both place utmost importance on romantic coupling and sex and simultaneously refuse to support anyone who doesn't happen to participate in those things for whatever reason. Like, where I live, it is absolutely way more expensive to be a single person. That is just one effect; it doesn't take account into the emotional or even spiritual consequences you describe of someone who is purposefully or unintentionally single or celibate. The support I refer is meaningful social support and safety nets, but also pushing back against primacy of coupling, both romantic and sexual, and making it sit in a more egalitarian way with relationships like friendships, parent-child relationships, sibling relationships, etc. Anyone who wants a romantic or sexual relationship should be supported to seek one out in a healthy way, but it's not THE most important and dominating relationship of society. How do we do this? I don't know exactly. But I also see this kind of support as the opposite to the extreme misogyny of the men who feel entitled to women's bodies and dehumanize women because of the men's involuntary celibacy. It's a question of real support versus backlash domination and control.
I work at home currently during this covid I have been experience a great deal of loneliness. Especially for the fact that I dont have a car. I have plans this year to travel internationally. I feel if people feel lonely then treat yourself. Go on vacation, go on a cruise, move abroad and work remotely and learn other cultures. U.S. has became so dependent on social media that it feels its more dividing us then having us come together. When I get on the bus or train and see everyone glued to the phone. I feel a sense of loneliness still. Maybe its out tainted society.
I for one have always wanted to have sex but unfortunately I'm not exactly up to par with societal beauty standards. And this is not to say I think I'm ugly but I'm just very aware that I'm not what society deems as beautiful. And not to say that I haven't experienced men being attracted to me but unfortunately the ones who are-are never my type and the ones I am attracted to don't feel the same way. I'm very eager to have sex one day with a someone who likes me as much as I do them but so far at 21 yrs of age I haven't been lucky. Thank you for this video it made me feel less alone especially while reading the comments. Really grateful that you talked about this ❤
I feel the same way at 23, you are definitely not alone!
I'm 23 and then a wheelchair and I definitely feel where you're coming from.
Wow, sincerity and sanity are rare gifts that will soon stand out amongst the sea of sad souls lost in their own bubbles, frightened to death to examine themselves/beliefs/behaviours. You are quite the catch and will surely have zero problems finding a strong, stable, loving mate when the time is right, and when/if it aligns with your circumstances and desires to do so.
Thank you for your empathy 🙏🏽✨
When women are alone and say they're unable to find men they can date, they get sympathy but when men say the same thing they are entitled.
There are too many standarts that you have to meet in todays society to be a desirable man. I would have to change everything about my life, spend most of my time improving and for what? That MAYBE ill find someone?I am in my early thirties andi i kind of made peace with the knowledge that i will be alone.
I feel a similar way too. I don't have the need to change, I feel great with myself right now. I made my peace with being just me.
Yep, I'm celibate. Not into online dating and so there's really nowhere to meet people. I'm not into "dating" anymore anyways. I'm turning 30 so now I'm waiting for something more meaningful if it comes along. But I'm happy in the meantime with all the time to learn about myself and what I really do want.
You're not into online dating, and you're not willing to date offline. How in the world is something just going to magically come along and be meaningful? Nothing is just going to come along, you have to get out and engage with the world. You have to go where the people you like to go. So the gym if they're into fitness. To cosplay conventions if they're into comics and super heroes. Local meet ups for various interest.Whatever. But hiding in the house waiting for magical pixie dust fairy tail moments to happen is just going to leave you alone for life.
oh wow, i really appreciate this perspective about "inceldom" or whatever. im a 27 yo woman and still a virgin, i have never had a romantic relationship, not even a kiss. idk ive spent most of my teenage years feeling really unlovable and depressed, ive never had the energy to consider pursuing romance, and by the time i became an adult i decided to focus on improving my relationship with myself, to the point where i considered romance as a possibility, and ive had a number of people interested in me romantically or sexually, but ended up feeling incredibly inadequate, which in turn landed me kinda back at the beginning
by now i feel ive been out of the loop for too long, i know im still young but intimacy is something that never came easily to me, and i feel im just stuck like this. and this strange shame i feel about being so inexperienced at this age makes me super isolated. i feel so embarrassed by being so bad at something that seemingly comes naturally to everyone else, i dont know how to talk about it. i feel burdened by my loneliness and shame, but my fear of intimacy and all the expectations that a romantic relationship entails just paralyze me, i dont want to hurt people or treat them as an experiment or part of my personal growth, if that makes sense? and all the talk about romantic responsability, while i understand is important, just adds another layer of feeling deficient for me. ive been always kind of drawn to incel culture because i can relate to the feelings of isolation and loneliness, even if i feel most of their rethoric boils down to entitlement, but still i cant help but feel that ultimately the fact i am like this is just my own doing.
thank you for the video, and for the space to air out something ive never been able to articulate
This resonate like crystal. I've taken long breaks from intimacy for various reasons. Every time I feel ready to branch out, I am frustrated and disappointed. 6.5 years was my longest streak, and it started out purposeful, so I can focus on the family and myself, then it morphed, and eventually I was able to break it, being comfortable again. Now I find myself 5 years in after some losses that took me out of the nookie pool, and I am putting my feelers out, again. It's not easy, but my suggestion is make a decision, and boundaries. Don't settle, you deserve better. 💌
This voice is crazy soothing
I’ve been so depressed and isolated for the last 7 years and I haven’t had any kind of physical contact except hugs from my parents in over 5 years. Now I’m on medication that completely removes any sex drive I once had, but it’s actually a good thing, because I live in a tiny town and there are zero prospects for any kind of relationship here. I feel no anger or bitterness towards women or couples, I’m glad that people can find happiness. I would never make any of this a part of my identity or refer to myself as celibate or an “incel”, I’m just a person.
I definitely agree that there are a ton of people (including myself) who align with the original ideals of involuntarily celibacy. But I kinda think it will be difficult and uncomfortable to reclaim the term “incel” due to how harmful and misogynistic incel communities currently are😥
Well this is awkward.. And uncomfortable to talk about.. I'll be turning 38 this year (female) and I've never been in a relationship, I tried casual sex and even though the physical part was enjoyable I didn't want to condition my brain with equating sex with vulgar friction.. I do have some minor childhood sexual trauma but for me is the emotional trauma caused by my family.. I simply cannot connect with people on an emotional level, I abhor the idea of becoming vulnerable and having to depend on others (because showing weakness in my youth was like chumming the water for sharks..).. I sometimes feel like an alien trapped in a human body, faking human relations and emotions.. A faker.. Maybe one day I'll find one person that will be all the right combinations but I more and more doubt so as my "value" drops with every year now.. Anyhow, I feel for everyone who is in a similar situation!
the alien metaphor is painfully recognizable to me
@@Stret173 So sorry to hear that :( I don't wish it on anyone..
@@the_endling Sex is just vulgar friction though.
@@nelzelpher7158 Hmmm.. Yes and no, there's a large psychological component to it, for females can be as much as 80 pc. How we are feeling about the whole thing/person/ourselves will determine how the experience fares. In many cases, the friction meaning nothing at all and causing no arousal. I'm not going to speak for men.. haha
Thank you for this safe space to talk about something that's been on my mind for months now.
Before some time last year, I was really happy being alone. I was thankful to have my friends and family and live my life making my own decisions. But then I became really close with a friend who, through absolutely no fault of her own, is what society might probably describe as "normal" for someone my age, which is to say she has had significant sexual and romantic experience. As a consequence of my upbringing and general personal preferences, I have never had any of that, and so gravitated towards friends who have also had a similar experience.
This friend is one of the closest people I have in my life right now, and she is unequivocally one of the greatest friends I've ever been so lucky to have. But being friends with her makes me feel so left out of a huge conversation. I feel like I'm behind, and like I'm missing out. If it was just me, I'd take my time. I'm very introverted and identify as asexual, so being in a relationship and having sex have always been at the bottom of my priorities. I always thought, if it's meant to happen, it'll happen, and if it doesn't, I've lived a good life anyway. But now I suddenly feel like I'm missing a part of that good life. I feel like I want to find someone now because I want to feel normal. I don't want to miss out when all my friends are married or in relationships.
I got so mad at myself when I realized that I had these thoughts, because there was also that pressure to uphold that ideal of being happy alone. But now I'm realizing and accepting that my friend and I are just people who ~live in a society, and that it's normal to feel these feelings at my age and in my situation. I'm trying to focus on myself and go at my own pace, but it's still really hard not to feel lonely. Not to mention that society's prescribed ways of getting out of this were pretty terrible for me (i.e. I tried dating apps for a bit and they gave me so much anxiety, it really wasn't worth it).
Anyway, thank you again for this video. It made me feel less alone for a bit.
I am seriously so grateful I found you. seeing another woman talking about these things gives me so much comfort. I enjoy all of your content but seeing you be open about this topic in particular has me feeling less alone. thank you.
Okay so here goes: I guess you could say I was and wasn’t an involuntary celibate over the last ten years. There were times when I longed for a loving, secure relationship and there were times when I did not want to settle for anyone in particular. Sometimes when you do too much of the one you want the other. Like when I‘d go on too many meh dates I‘d think ok whatever I‘ll take sex then better than nothing and after I‘d had too many meh one night stands I‘d think oh God please just give me a relationship already. It’s weird. You know you’re conditioned to want something you may not really want but at the same time you don’t always know what that is. Anyway as cheesy as it sounds when people say dumb stuff like “it happens when you least expect it” - that’s how it happened for me. After years and years of alternating phases of one night stands, of dating and of not seeing anyone at all I kind of accepted that this is how my life was going to be. I accepted that while I like listening to love songs and going to weddings those kinds of things are just not in the cards for me. I accepted that at times I am going to feel unlovable and at other times I’m going to feel like I deserve so much more than to settle for someone I don’t really have a spark with. I accepted that I am loved by so many people already and that their love will be enough for me because some people just aren’t meant to be in relationships and that’s okay. And wouldn’t you know it? That’s when I ended up in a relationship a few weeks later... Mind you, a relationship I’ve had (and still have to) work very hard not to sabotage because my fears and my heartaches, my preconceived ideas of “red flags” and “dealbreakers” are etched so deep into my brain that I still sometimes hear that voice saying “run”. But at the same time I am also fully aware that what I have is precious and if it won’t last so be it but it won’t be because I sabotaged it (again).
The way I see it there’s three parts to a working relationship: Vulnerability, work and luck. The scariest thing about being in a relationship after all these years of (at times involuntarily) not being in one is the fact that it will hurt you. If you’re lucky it will only hurt you a little bit here and there when your partner gets on your nerves, when you misunderstand eachother or when you’re jealous. If you’re not lucky the whole relationship is not going to work out and you will have spent weeks, months, years... growing with someone you’ll then have to grow apart from. That hurts so much and it’s super scary. But it comes with the territory. You have to be willing to risk breaking your heart into a million little pieces when you want to be in a relationship. Easier said then done. The work of the relationship is constant and sometimes part of the pain but at other times also part of the reward. It’s a different thing for everyone. It sometimes blows me away how hard it is. Sometimes I’m dead set on breaking up because I don’t want to do the work of being patient or of opening up or whatever it is in that moment. Right now I’m working on embracing the fact that my relationship has outgrown its honeymoon phase and is settling into something else. It’s hard sometimes. Sometimes I tell myself it shouldn’t be this hard and I should just run. But I also know it’s the saboteur in me saying that. Sometimes it feels like there’s a version of me putting up a wall brick by brick because that’s what we’ve always done and then the “work” of my relationship consists of going there and taking apart that wall brick by brick as I keep building it up... I don’t know if it makes sense. But it’s work. I’ve found talking to close friends about it helps. Sometimes I’m so sure I know something is yellow only for them to show me the situation could also be green and I need to open up to my partner to figure it out. That’s the work. Finally there’s also luck. You have to be at the right place at the right time and that’s just dumb luck. But not only. You also kinda make your luck. I met my partner two years before we started dating. I immediately knew I liked him. After a year we tried to set something up a couple of times but it always fell through. So I told myself “If he wanted he would” and gave up. The problem was that unbeknownst to me he though the same thing about me. So it took us another year to be able to set our wounded prides / triggered vulnerabilities aside and finally go on that first date. Looking back it’s hard to believe I ever thought he wasn’t into me when I see him now. But I did truly believe that with all of my heart and I was super duper wrong lol.
So yeah not sure that helps. But here’s some perspective from someone who was in those shoes for a very long time not too long ago. I know I could end up there again at any given moment because there’s no guarantee in love. Even if we love eachother very much now there’s no guarantee it will be like this forever. But it is now and I guess that for as long as it feels nice we’ll keep working on it hoping we can stay together. And if not and my heart breaks again I’ll just put it back together like I’ve done in the past. It would hurt but I guess it’s worth it.
Thank you for sharing your story. I started dating a couple of months ago, which led me to think more deeply about why people get into relationships. I don't have an answer yet, besides "it is what is expected of us", but it helps to hear other people's experiences.