When I bought my G80 M3, BMW NA called to get my feedback and I told them I'll never buy an EV BMW. I think they realize most M car buyers are like that.
I'm okay with mild hybrid to help stop/start and low end torque. But doubling the weight just to say it can run 20 miles without gas is pointless marketing.
I knew this was on the way, thats why i fully restored and modified my E92 335i. There's literally nothing new out there I'm interested in, I feel like my car interest will end with this car, its the end game for me.
As a 23 year old car enthusiast it is sad to me that not only are we loosing fun, affordable, engaging drivers cars but also the fact that the legislation is pretty much pushing only 1 technology - the BEV. I personally think we should still have an option as to what powers our cars - as long as the engineers can make it carbon neutral then it should definitely be allowed. Why let politicians push us in one direction? Here in the UK when I was growing up everyone was incentivised to buy diesel cars - then they made a huge U-Turn and are actively trying to get people out of diesel and in some parts of the country don't even allow diesel cars into towns and cities. Don't trust them for one bit and think engineers should be making the rules - not corrupt politicians
Outside of the US, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche/Audi are on serious trouble. They cannot compete with Chinese electric cars. The Xaiomi SU7 max and ultra are leagues ahead. The Ultra is over 1600HP and costs 112K USD. In what world are any of the German brands competing with that? They need to stick to ICE and perhaps mild hybrid. Basically to come out with an all electric car that is way more expensive, less range, slower charging and performs worse than the Chinese is a fools errand.
Compete with what?? Those cars have more HP - so what. They’re toaster ovens with wheels. With that logic, the Tesla plaid would be considered king of performance cars. This is a move to shift away from enthusiasts, and towards badge consumers who constantly update to the “latest and greatest”.
This is a whole bunch of ignorance. 1) Chinese import tax will push any of those over what most reasonable folks will be willing to pay 2) The Chinese government will be listening to you and monitoring your location 3) The Chinese do not manufacture things to last, there is a plethora of garbage for sale on Amazon, Temu, Aliexpress, Ebay, you name it, vehicles won't be any different. HP is only one indicator of performance potential, if you cant put that power to the ground or things are always broken, well then it doesn't matter too much does it?
They legally can't continue with ICE only cars because of the oppressive EU, they will fine car manufacturers per car that don't meet regulations or simply restrict them sale. Then from 2030 onwards, all ICE car sales will be illegal. It's crazy what the EU has done, they will cause a collapse of the majority of our most beloved brands. Then china will dominate China and sell the cheap cars at scale
@@SJones11b Exactly, the more card become more electric the less likely car guys are to work on and build THEIR cars. Take phones for instance, before you could simply change and replace the batteries now you can't get into the phone at all. Once it goes bad you have to spend another $1,200+ for a phone that's really no different than what you had. Think about all the aftermarket car part companies that will slowly disappear. Soon the only thing that will differentiate your car from the next is the paint or wrap color and wheels..that's about it. Imagine how boring an all electric car race would be, complete silence😂 All electric F1, drift, drag and Nascar races👎🏾
Proudly stuck in the past in terms of the golden eras of truly great cars instead of today's shift in focus by automakers. God help us avoid Porsche from exploring a hybrid GT3 though. I will ALWAYS be obsessed with the E90 M3 V8s and the older inline 6 engines by BMW. Long live the awesome cars from 2006-2018
Earlier this year I traded my F34 for 2022 i4 M50. Frozen Portimao Blue fully loaded with the carbon package. It’s a beast and I have zero regrets! All electric is not bad at all🤷🏽♂️
Interesting take from someone who already owns these desirable ICE cars. They will become less and less attainable as they increase in value just like you mentioned. Pure ICE bimmers may still be a thing in the future but they’ll be expensive limited edition models again out of reach for a majority of enthusiasts, if a younger generation of enthusiasts are even around by then.
I think people just don't like change. Cars have gone from carburetors to fuel injection to computers, from naturally aspirated to turbos and now hybrid and eventually fully electric. Many people like the older models and complain about turbos. The people that like turbos are complaining about electric assist. I think people are just drawn to whichever platform inspired their generation. I don't believe there is good or bad, technology is just evolving
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that." In reality though my garage has a 2011 e90 m3 and an all electric GV60 performance. They both scratch different itches. GV60 for the daily and the e90 for the weekends and track. It isn't a bad combo IMO. Each to their own. :)
Hope they can find electric buyers to replaces the analog one too ! A Single computer in those cars is dumb too but also a wet dream from bmw for making repairs impossible. An EME for a BMW i3 is like 6000$. Imagine if when the module fail you are replacing the ABS module, body module, engine ECU, battery management unit etc. A 20,000$ parts because the passenger door lock is faulty ?
A few points... The free market (if its free and not regulated/choked), will determine if BMW's direction will produce for the market and reward the company. Market/consumer data can drive a company, not guarantee an outcome. I don't have any hate towards EVs (I own an IX, love it), or Hybrids. However, I think there is a misconception when it comes to what an M car is or should be (maybe I own the misconception) In my mind an M car is about track and driver focus. The balance with the following variables; Driver input (info push), car reception and response (info pull & push), and environment. Barney style is, Driver connection is forged as he/she hits the throttle, brake, shifts gears (manual), turns the wheel, pushing info to the car. Cars ability and need to receive driver input (info pull), and the response to the driver (info push) determines whether a driver can set a track time due to skill or end up off a cliff. Basically, M = sufficient power to weight ratio, clear unfiltered feedback to the driver, enhanced components for traction/suspension, and light weight. It is not about straight line speed (from dig or roll race). It is about the drivers ability to negotiation a road/track by skill with suffiecant power and traction "seemingly" definying the laws of physics and producing an adrenaline rush. This is where EV & hybrids no matter performance fail in recent M models. Its about what the driver can do not the car. If BMW continues to make the driver less relevant, well people will take their money elsewhere or buy from the used market. I hope this made sense as I have already had a cocktail...
THINK OF THIS FOR A SEC 👂🏿 ME OUT !!!!!!! Hybrid M3 TOURING 500hp S58 WITH A 200hp electric ⚡️ motor. STUPID ASS LOUD EXHAUST . You leave @ 6 AM FOR WORK AND LEAVE IN ELECTRIC ⚡️ MODE THEM FIRE 🔥 UP THE S58 on the FREEWAY CMON YELL ME YPU WOULD NOT BE IN LOVE 🥰 ALL FOR 85,000 42MPG YOU GOTTAH CHANGE YOUR MIND
Great video John, I to am an 85 baby and I understand the move for the future. Its why like our past generation want to hold on to what we know and are familiar with and cherish. I will forever hold onto my 2018 LCI m2 6 speed as its my bmw classic. I will also be picking up an m850i/m8/comp gran coupe here shortly since the used market is decent on those vehicles to add for a daily. Get em while they're hot. I am not against hybrid just wish they could retain the manuals for it but I get it. We look at old american muscle from the 60s-80s and the jdm early 90s-2000 cars like gems, some people think F series b,ws are too "hightech" its just the way it is. We shall see what the future holds. I am just glad to still be able to kick it in the petrol manual gang for a little while longer.
to your point about older professionals buying the new cars, tbh ive seen the opposite. i think young people more than ever are going into insane debt for a status symbol. the amount of 20 year olds these days paying over 1k car payment for a g80 is insane !!! i'm in canada and i don't really see it here, but i have family and friends in pheonix and the amount of kids younger than me that are driving g80s is crazyyyy
The way I see it is, with how the prices of newer cars are going, I'm much more likely to spend that new car price on an older ICE BMW and use the remaining to restore it to its best potential. I can't change my taste in cars, so if I don't find interest in EVs, then I'll just buy and build older stuff.
I agree with you on the future of electrified assistance becoming commonplace. Full EV course but, I will be an old assistance man by then so whatever, lol, already nearly 50. Look at Porsche (which I own a 21 911 Carrera 4S), the new 25+ 911s GTS trim Turbo, Turbo S trim are all getting electrified assistance for performance reasons. I don't think the GT/GT RS cars can go electrified assistance yet because their winning strategy is as light weight, as much naturally aspirated hp/tq high reving, fast reving combo to build ultimate track cars. I have already been thinking (as someone who typically only keeps a car for 2 years average and moves on to new usually nicer toy) that my 24 BMW M4 Competition XDrive is a car I should keep. I custom ordered it, first year for M4 with the single large screen, last year for M4 with the Laser headlights. Maybe, just maybe a particular stand out year for those reasons when considering long term value, depreciation. Not to mention the car is amazing.
ICE day are numbered across most manufacturers, whatever is coming out in the next year or two that has ICE, that will probably be it. So, if folks are debating an ICE vehicle....and in particular, in a manual, you better snap something up in the next year or two.
@thicwhips question for ya then speaking about this video, next year I’ll be able to afford an 2018-2019 M550i. What are your thoughts on that car and should I buy one next year?
I’ll do hybrid if @bmw keeps the B58 Gen 2 with 400hp and a battery pack for either a electric motor and an additional 200hp or do like Porsche and do an electric ⚡️ TURBO WITH THE S58 making 500 with a 200hp battery
I know they are also betting on synthetic fuels. I understand the need to protect our planet. Electric is ok. It's a bit soulless though. Parts stores are shutting down because as you said, times have changed and are changing rapidly.
I think BMW are going to make a very big mistake with electric. Every car company that has tried to compete with Tesla and the Chinese Tesla knockoff brands have lost millions, if not billions, on unsold units and wasted r&d.
They can build whatever they want i wont buy a new BMW because they all look terrible since the F90 M5 left production BMW has no good looking cars anymore
As someone who has never really been into my "wagons"... that G99 touring really caught my eye...i am it feeling it way more than the G90 sedan. But yeah as far as hybrid/electric coming to fruition... I think it's important to appreciate present day & embrace the moment we are in... at all times. Never take for granted current day & an inevitable future because in the grand scheme of things overtime it will become more efficient/purposeful. Even if it's not right away, over time that's what this move is going to allow. Harvesting resources to make electrical components will eventually lead to making these batteries... lighter & lighter so the weight concern won't be an issue eventually. Although a combustion sound & feel is unique in it's own way...who's to say overtime something electronic won't give the same joy we get from the prior.
When I bought my G80 M3, BMW NA called to get my feedback and I told them I'll never buy an EV BMW. I think they realize most M car buyers are like that.
I'm okay with mild hybrid to help stop/start and low end torque. But doubling the weight just to say it can run 20 miles without gas is pointless marketing.
It effects things like tax too
I'm going to pass on the electric cars. I'll stick with my f80 & try to add a e30 to the stable eventually.
I have two boosted e30s and I still wanna keep up with the Bavarian Jones 🤷🏾♂️🔥💵😂😂
BMW said few years back, not too long ago, that they will not use the letter M along with an electric vehicle. What a shame it would be!!
I knew this was on the way, thats why i fully restored and modified my E92 335i. There's literally nothing new out there I'm interested in, I feel like my car interest will end with this car, its the end game for me.
As a 23 year old car enthusiast it is sad to me that not only are we loosing fun, affordable, engaging drivers cars but also the fact that the legislation is pretty much pushing only 1 technology - the BEV. I personally think we should still have an option as to what powers our cars - as long as the engineers can make it carbon neutral then it should definitely be allowed. Why let politicians push us in one direction? Here in the UK when I was growing up everyone was incentivised to buy diesel cars - then they made a huge U-Turn and are actively trying to get people out of diesel and in some parts of the country don't even allow diesel cars into towns and cities. Don't trust them for one bit and think engineers should be making the rules - not corrupt politicians
All I know is that I want a F80 M3 Comp in my garage paired with my daily mk7.5 golf r
Outside of the US, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche/Audi are on serious trouble. They cannot compete with Chinese electric cars. The Xaiomi SU7 max and ultra are leagues ahead. The Ultra is over 1600HP and costs 112K USD. In what world are any of the German brands competing with that? They need to stick to ICE and perhaps mild hybrid. Basically to come out with an all electric car that is way more expensive, less range, slower charging and performs worse than the Chinese is a fools errand.
Compete with what?? Those cars have more HP - so what. They’re toaster ovens with wheels. With that logic, the Tesla plaid would be considered king of performance cars. This is a move to shift away from enthusiasts, and towards badge consumers who constantly update to the “latest and greatest”.
This is a whole bunch of ignorance. 1) Chinese import tax will push any of those over what most reasonable folks will be willing to pay 2) The Chinese government will be listening to you and monitoring your location 3) The Chinese do not manufacture things to last, there is a plethora of garbage for sale on Amazon, Temu, Aliexpress, Ebay, you name it, vehicles won't be any different. HP is only one indicator of performance potential, if you cant put that power to the ground or things are always broken, well then it doesn't matter too much does it?
They legally can't continue with ICE only cars because of the oppressive EU, they will fine car manufacturers per car that don't meet regulations or simply restrict them sale. Then from 2030 onwards, all ICE car sales will be illegal. It's crazy what the EU has done, they will cause a collapse of the majority of our most beloved brands. Then china will dominate China and sell the cheap cars at scale
People in china don’t even buy their own ev. There’s a literally forest filled with ev rotting away because no one’s buying them.
@@SJones11b Exactly, the more card become more electric the less likely car guys are to work on and build THEIR cars. Take phones for instance, before you could simply change and replace the batteries now you can't get into the phone at all. Once it goes bad you have to spend another $1,200+ for a phone that's really no different than what you had. Think about all the aftermarket car part companies that will slowly disappear. Soon the only thing that will differentiate your car from the next is the paint or wrap color and wheels..that's about it. Imagine how boring an all electric car race would be, complete silence😂 All electric F1, drift, drag and Nascar races👎🏾
Proudly stuck in the past in terms of the golden eras of truly great cars instead of today's shift in focus by automakers. God help us avoid Porsche from exploring a hybrid GT3 though. I will ALWAYS be obsessed with the E90 M3 V8s and the older inline 6 engines by BMW. Long live the awesome cars from 2006-2018
Earlier this year I traded my F34 for 2022 i4 M50. Frozen Portimao Blue fully loaded with the carbon package. It’s a beast and I have zero regrets! All electric is not bad at all🤷🏽♂️
Interesting take from someone who already owns these desirable ICE cars. They will become less and less attainable as they increase in value just like you mentioned.
Pure ICE bimmers may still be a thing in the future but they’ll be expensive limited edition models again out of reach for a majority of enthusiasts, if a younger generation of enthusiasts are even around by then.
I think people just don't like change. Cars have gone from carburetors to fuel injection to computers, from naturally aspirated to turbos and now hybrid and eventually fully electric. Many people like the older models and complain about turbos. The people that like turbos are complaining about electric assist. I think people are just drawn to whichever platform inspired their generation. I don't believe there is good or bad, technology is just evolving
i don’t mind electric cars, i mind that they make them ugly & heavy & expensive
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that." In reality though my garage has a 2011 e90 m3 and an all electric GV60 performance. They both scratch different itches. GV60 for the daily and the e90 for the weekends and track. It isn't a bad combo IMO. Each to their own. :)
They are pure Betamax.
Hope they can find electric buyers to replaces the analog one too ! A Single computer in those cars is dumb too but also a wet dream from bmw for making repairs impossible.
An EME for a BMW i3 is like 6000$. Imagine if when the module fail you are replacing the ABS module, body module, engine ECU, battery management unit etc.
A 20,000$ parts because the passenger door lock is faulty ?
A few points... The free market (if its free and not regulated/choked), will determine if BMW's direction will produce for the market and reward the company. Market/consumer data can drive a company, not guarantee an outcome. I don't have any hate towards EVs (I own an IX, love it), or Hybrids. However, I think there is a misconception when it comes to what an M car is or should be (maybe I own the misconception) In my mind an M car is about track and driver focus. The balance with the following variables; Driver input (info push), car reception and response (info pull & push), and environment. Barney style is, Driver connection is forged as he/she hits the throttle, brake, shifts gears (manual), turns the wheel, pushing info to the car. Cars ability and need to receive driver input (info pull), and the response to the driver (info push) determines whether a driver can set a track time due to skill or end up off a cliff. Basically, M = sufficient power to weight ratio, clear unfiltered feedback to the driver, enhanced components for traction/suspension, and light weight. It is not about straight line speed (from dig or roll race). It is about the drivers ability to negotiation a road/track by skill with suffiecant power and traction "seemingly" definying the laws of physics and producing an adrenaline rush. This is where EV & hybrids no matter performance fail in recent M models. Its about what the driver can do not the car. If BMW continues to make the driver less relevant, well people will take their money elsewhere or buy from the used market. I hope this made sense as I have already had a cocktail...
THINK OF THIS FOR A SEC 👂🏿 ME OUT !!!!!!!
Hybrid M3 TOURING 500hp S58 WITH A 200hp electric ⚡️ motor. STUPID ASS LOUD EXHAUST . You leave @ 6 AM FOR WORK AND LEAVE IN ELECTRIC ⚡️ MODE THEM FIRE 🔥 UP THE S58 on the FREEWAY CMON YELL ME YPU WOULD NOT BE IN LOVE 🥰
ALL FOR 85,000 42MPG YOU GOTTAH CHANGE YOUR MIND
Great video John, I to am an 85 baby and I understand the move for the future. Its why like our past generation want to hold on to what we know and are familiar with and cherish. I will forever hold onto my 2018 LCI m2 6 speed as its my bmw classic. I will also be picking up an m850i/m8/comp gran coupe here shortly since the used market is decent on those vehicles to add for a daily. Get em while they're hot. I am not against hybrid just wish they could retain the manuals for it but I get it. We look at old american muscle from the 60s-80s and the jdm early 90s-2000 cars like gems, some people think F series b,ws are too "hightech" its just the way it is. We shall see what the future holds. I am just glad to still be able to kick it in the petrol manual gang for a little while longer.
to your point about older professionals buying the new cars, tbh ive seen the opposite. i think young people more than ever are going into insane debt for a status symbol. the amount of 20 year olds these days paying over 1k car payment for a g80 is insane !!! i'm in canada and i don't really see it here, but i have family and friends in pheonix and the amount of kids younger than me that are driving g80s is crazyyyy
Hot takes: real M cars have ITBs, e3X was the greatest generation of bmw, f 3sires were peak bmw design.
I’m pretty sure they’ll be hybrid for a while before they go fully electric
1980s BABY MOTRONIC AND JETRONIC FUEL INJECTION WAS SPACE AGE TECH IN THE E30s
They are infact not, there will be electrical variants, but not isntead of M3 an MI3, there will be both
The way I see it is, with how the prices of newer cars are going, I'm much more likely to spend that new car price on an older ICE BMW and use the remaining to restore it to its best potential. I can't change my taste in cars, so if I don't find interest in EVs, then I'll just buy and build older stuff.
I'll never buy an electric M and I'm not giving up my F90 !
I agree with you on the future of electrified assistance becoming commonplace. Full EV course but, I will be an old assistance man by then so whatever, lol, already nearly 50. Look at Porsche (which I own a 21 911 Carrera 4S), the new 25+ 911s GTS trim Turbo, Turbo S trim are all getting electrified assistance for performance reasons. I don't think the GT/GT RS cars can go electrified assistance yet because their winning strategy is as light weight, as much naturally aspirated hp/tq high reving, fast reving combo to build ultimate track cars. I have already been thinking (as someone who typically only keeps a car for 2 years average and moves on to new usually nicer toy) that my 24 BMW M4 Competition XDrive is a car I should keep. I custom ordered it, first year for M4 with the single large screen, last year for M4 with the Laser headlights. Maybe, just maybe a particular stand out year for those reasons when considering long term value, depreciation. Not to mention the car is amazing.
ICE day are numbered across most manufacturers, whatever is coming out in the next year or two that has ICE, that will probably be it. So, if folks are debating an ICE vehicle....and in particular, in a manual, you better snap something up in the next year or two.
@thicwhips question for ya then speaking about this video, next year I’ll be able to afford an 2018-2019 M550i. What are your thoughts on that car and should I buy one next year?
I’ll do hybrid if @bmw keeps the B58 Gen 2 with 400hp and a battery pack for either a electric motor and an additional 200hp or do like Porsche and do an electric ⚡️ TURBO WITH THE S58 making 500 with a 200hp battery
False clickbait, the next gen M3 will be ICE, there will be an electric equivalent too but it will not carry the "M" badging.
1984 is a good read 🤐
I know they are also betting on synthetic fuels. I understand the need to protect our planet. Electric is ok. It's a bit soulless though.
Parts stores are shutting down because as you said, times have changed and are changing rapidly.
I think BMW are going to make a very big mistake with electric. Every car company that has tried to compete with Tesla and the Chinese Tesla knockoff brands have lost millions, if not billions, on unsold units and wasted r&d.
They can build whatever they want i wont buy a new BMW because they all look terrible since the F90 M5 left production BMW has no good looking cars anymore
As someone who has never really been into my "wagons"... that G99 touring really caught my eye...i am it feeling it way more than the G90 sedan.
But yeah as far as hybrid/electric coming to fruition... I think it's important to appreciate present day & embrace the moment we are in... at all times. Never take for granted current day & an inevitable future because in the grand scheme of things overtime it will become more efficient/purposeful. Even if it's not right away, over time that's what this move is going to allow. Harvesting resources to make electrical components will eventually lead to making these batteries... lighter & lighter so the weight concern won't be an issue eventually. Although a combustion sound & feel is unique in it's own way...who's to say overtime something electronic won't give the same joy we get from the prior.