@@graynotescartridgebox Well there's three different dies and they all do something different. First is a neck sizing die, and it's for only sizing the necks down but does nothing to the body which is why most precision shooters don't use them anymore. If you use a neck die a lot you'll eventually have to use the next die which is the body die. A body die only touches the body but does nothing to the neck and is only used when you need to size the body. The last die is the full length sizer and it does the neck and body at the same time which leads to consistently sized brass both at the neck and body every time. Does that help?
Excellent methods for keeping track of the many things Fclass shooters must. Most of us have to be a little nerdy to enjoy the details. Keep the videos coming but make sure you keep a spreadsheet on which IPA your using or drinking. Lol
I appreciate a guy being honest!! Great content and I think the internet can put un necessary pressure on us shooters. You call up a video and see a guy recording sd’s of single digits with great accuracy but the video may not show the guys previous session at the range when accuracy and velocities weren’t so good. I’m really enjoying your channel!!
Just realized I've been watching your videos for quite sometime and haven't subscribed! Sorry LOL. Just did. Keep it coming the good content with Erik and looking forward for the Neck sizing video!
I batch it simply by dumping a new box of brass into one of my MTM boxes. I used to sort by .10 grain increments but never found a statistical difference to make it worth the effort.
You showed targets used for powder tests as seating depth testing, and it appears you shoot 3rds per charge weight and 3rds per depth change. Are you chronographing during these tests, or is the chrono test done after you have identified powder charge and seating depth node, although I don’t see how that can be done, so I am asking.
What are you're thoughts on FL sizing dies with and expanding ball instead of an expanding mandrel? Right now I am using a forster FL sizing die for one caliber and a hornady for the other. I am a hobbiest and hunter just trying to up my reloading game to get the most out of my off the shelf guns.
Thanks for the video! What compound do you use on your barrel threads, what vise do you use, what material do you put between the barrel and the vise, and do you always use a specific torque ft/lb?
I never put a compound on my threads anymore. I used to put anti-seize compound but found it wasn’t necessary and it always made things a little messier. Keep in mind my barrels aren’t on for very long relative to something like a hunting rifle or a .22lr. If it was going to be on for a long long time I would use just a slight bit of anti-seize. I don’t use anything between my barrel, it’s not needed and nothing gets hurt. I torque to 80ft/lbs but always check with your action manufacturer. I have an older video you may want to look up regarding switch barrels.
If you're trying to shoot the smallest groups possible, why shoot at a crosshair? You have a crosshair in your scope, correct? Maybe the crosshair in your scope covers (subtends) the crosshair on your target. My advice to you is shoot at a black and white square of a size that matches the X's of your scope. I can shoot benchrest quality groups with .375 H&H Mags equipped with Leupold straight 2.5 X Ultralight scopes simply by tacking up 8.5X11 paper square with the world and quartering it with the crosshair. You don't need crosshairs, orange circles, diamonds, grids. Shoot a black and white square and quarter it perfectly with the crosshair in your scope. Your eye will do it for you. It's easy. If your target's crosshair is 1/8 inch and your scope's crosshair subtends 1/4 inch at 100 yds, your groups may be .125" larger than they would otherwise. I realize you are probably pretty young but this stuff comes down to common sense sometimes. Been at this game 40 years. Just think about what you're trying to accomplish.
Do you always expand before seating? I've been Resizing, expanding, then chamfer/debur/trim. Would that cause any issues? Also, do you take your barrels off to clean?
So here's the deal with how and why I do it. I actually expand twice. Once when doing my brass press and that's mostly to ensure that the necks are all the same when they go into my Giraud. I also expand right before seating to make sure the necks are good after being handled and potentially bent for some weird reason. IF I was only going to expand one it could be done either like you're doing it, or right before seating. I know guys who do both.
Hey, i love your channel, thanks for sharing your knowledge! What is your take on Monolithic bullets? I guess consistency should be great, is the lower specific weight such a big drawback or are there other factors as well that speak against them?
I’m sorry but I honestly don’t have any experience with monolithic bullets so I can’t really speak to them. All I can tell you is guys who I know who have tried them for F-class feel that they are actually a detriment but I know they have their place in ELR and other disciplines. Wish I could be more help in that regard but I just don’t know enough about them to comment. Sorry
F-Class John Interesting, thanks a lot! In Europe there is a trend for monolithic hunting bullets and a lot of guys loading those are strong believers in them being more accurate than anything else. Which to me seems odd since nobody in Benchrest or F-class seems to be using them. I loaded my first batch of monolithic bullets an hour ago and will be at the range tomorrow, i‘m very curious!!
Thomas Rauchenwald Best of luck to you and let me know how those go. I know there is a combination of factors that make them undesirable in F class but I don’t have the fax in front of me and don’t want to state something that is inaccurate. All I know is some of the top shooters tried them and instantly went back to jacketed bullets.
I hand load monolithics for hunting up here in Alaska. For hunting they are great...especially when maximum penetration and weight retention is desired (bull moose, bears). Most monoliths shoot best far away from the lands 0.050-0.080" and their BC is poor relative to what F-class shooters are shooting. For example, a 7mm 168-gr Barnes LRX long range hunting bullet has BC of 0.55 (heaviest 7mm available in LRX) , a Berger 7 mm 190 Grain Long Range Hybrid Target has a BC of 0.75.
In the grand scheme of things of course fire brass will be more consistent. However, I’ve shot virgin brass at Nationals and won several medals and I know other guys who do it too. If you have good brass and test with the virgin brass you can often get great results as long as you understand your load will most likely change once it’s been fired.
@@FClassJohn Thanks for the quick reply, Is your load development testing done at a specific distance? Your testing is done in three round groups, How did you determine this number. Sorry for all the questions, I just found your channel. There's so much to learn. Thanks again!
@@anthonyc2370 I do most of my testing at 100yds. On new calibers or unfamiliar loads I'll do a little testing at 300yd but usually I go from 100yd to 600yd and then 1000yd. I do 5 shot groups on powder charges and three shot groups on everything else at 100yd and then my group sizes vary when testing at 1000yds depending on what I'm testing. It's all about getting the best result from the fewest rounds so you don't kill barrels doing nothing but testing.
I'm currently running a pair of Deviants. I order mine directly from them and they're great to work with plus they'll let you pick your own serial number. I have custom sequential numbers.
Ronnie Baker - I’ve looked at the alternatives myself & come to the conclusion that either I should use the AMP or nothing as the other induction annealers look & operate as if they were early prototypes & depend on user judgement to some extent (which is a very bad idea). Annealers working with flames are totally inadequate when it comes to ensuring you get the annealing results you need (unless you can test hardness). Salt bath annealing is a bad joke. Only the AMP allows you to get the results you need consistently & with the ability to do it on your loading bench. I won’t be buying an AMP myself as I don’t think the advantages of annealing are important enough for me but at the moment any other machine is a waste of money (unless the user fools themselves as to the results).
I mostly agree with Ronnie below although I know some great shooters who use flame annealing with a Benchrite so clearly they have it figured out. All of that being said nobody can totally agree that annealing actually makes a bullet more accurate. What most do agree on is that annealing at its most basic will extend the life of your brass and most likely allow for more consistent neck tension. But there again I know some incredible shooters who have NEVER annealed and just tear up targets. Bottom line is if you’re shooting great and not annealing then don’t feel like you have to rush right out and get one.
They’re good bullets but didn’t have enough freebore so they’re compressing a lot and causing issues. After nationals I may play with them again free I increase my freebore. It’s a wildcat Rsaum
I love going to the range, what can I say. I try to follow Cortina and others who say “perfect practice makes perfect”. I go to the range with a goal in mind and try to leave with results either good or bad that validate those goals.
@@James-prs-uk Yep I see lots of .284 and 300wsm. At the end of the day I think if a someone matches their gear to their abilities you see success no matter what caliber. You have to have confidence in your gear before wind calls start making a difference. It's a work in progress but it's been fun so far. We will see in a couple weeks at Nationals....
F-Class John I planned to shoot national this year but that went out the window as it got cancelled here in the uk so maybe next year I hope to learn a lot from the lot of time spent shooting
@@FClassJohn I worked up a sub moa load with 175 SMK and Varget for 308.. And have been loading the same thing for about 5 years.. Never failed me! I use the same 175SMK with 47gr of Varget in my 30-06 with ragged hole results.. Use the 175smk and a 220Smk for my 300WM and H1000.. I don't experiment much.
Have you tried neck sizing? 🤷♂️
No but that sounds like a great idea 😂🥴😂🤪 I hear you’re the guy to go to for neck sizing help so I’ll give you a call. 😆
F-Class John
😂
🤣🤣
Graynote Media
You did it wrong. Bullets should have fell in, not out. 😉
@@graynotescartridgebox Well there's three different dies and they all do something different. First is a neck sizing die, and it's for only sizing the necks down but does nothing to the body which is why most precision shooters don't use them anymore. If you use a neck die a lot you'll eventually have to use the next die which is the body die. A body die only touches the body but does nothing to the neck and is only used when you need to size the body. The last die is the full length sizer and it does the neck and body at the same time which leads to consistently sized brass both at the neck and body every time. Does that help?
I can really relate to this, I appreciate the transparency, thank you.
Great to hear you talk about load work up, every time I get a new barrel I cringe wondering will go easy or hard.
Nice walk through John. I appreciate you taking the time to make the videos and share your hard work. I hope you are rewarded with a better run soon.
Thank you. It’s always ups and downs and I think it’s important that people understand it’s a process.
Great advice, on the mental aspect, thank you. Regarding the brass, keep it simple and consistent.
Thank you. Allways happy when a new video from you appears in my feed. I learn son much from you. M from Norway
So nice of you to say. Thank you.
Love your channel! You and Erik have the two best reloading channels IMO.
Thank you for the kind words. I try my best to make stuff that helps.
Very nice. Lots of take away, good stuff. Also... I don't feel so bad when a plan just doesn't come together. I get it.
Thank you and glad it helps.
Informative as always and thanks for the confidence booster that looking for loads isn’t always easy.
You bet
Excellent methods for keeping track of the many things Fclass shooters must. Most of us have to be a little nerdy to enjoy the details. Keep the videos coming but make sure you keep a spreadsheet on which IPA your using or drinking. Lol
Thank you and I’ll definitely keep tabs on my IPAs 😂
Love your videos! Thank you for making them and sharing the wealth of knowledge. Erik Cortinas says you have a funny CLR story?
Yeah, it's pretty good. Maybe I'll tell the story when Erik and I team up at the F-Class Nationals in a couple weeks. I'm sure people will enjoy it.
Now that dedication! Impressive
Thank you, I try.
I appreciate a guy being honest!! Great content and I think the internet can put un necessary pressure on us shooters. You call up a video and see a guy recording sd’s of single digits with great accuracy but the video may not show the guys previous session at the range when accuracy and velocities weren’t so good. I’m really enjoying your channel!!
Thank you, that's very kind of you to say and I hope you continue to enjoy my content.
Just realized I've been watching your videos for quite sometime and haven't subscribed! Sorry LOL. Just did. Keep it coming the good content with Erik and looking forward for the Neck sizing video!
Thank you!!
Do you batch your new brass?? If you do, what tolerance weight range do you set??
Thankyou
I batch it simply by dumping a new box of brass into one of my MTM boxes. I used to sort by .10 grain increments but never found a statistical difference to make it worth the effort.
A bit off topic, but I’ve heard you mention gauge pins in your videos. Where are you finding them for your specific caliber?
I get them here www.gageshop.com
You showed targets used for powder tests as seating depth testing, and it appears you shoot 3rds per charge weight and 3rds per depth change. Are you chronographing during these tests, or is the chrono test done after you have identified powder charge and seating depth node, although I don’t see how that can be done, so I am asking.
great video! Can you share a video on how you clean your rifle? Notice on your log that you clean by bullet counts or ? Thanks.
Yeah I can do a cleaning video soon but it’s probably going to get the most comments both pro and con because it’s such a contentious subject. 🙂
What are you're thoughts on FL sizing dies with and expanding ball instead of an expanding mandrel? Right now I am using a forster FL sizing die for one caliber and a hornady for the other. I am a hobbiest and hunter just trying to up my reloading game to get the most out of my off the shelf guns.
Thanks for the video! What compound do you use on your barrel threads, what vise do you use, what material do you put between the barrel and the vise, and do you always use a specific torque ft/lb?
I never put a compound on my threads anymore. I used to put anti-seize compound but found it wasn’t necessary and it always made things a little messier. Keep in mind my barrels aren’t on for very long relative to something like a hunting rifle or a .22lr. If it was going to be on for a long long time I would use just a slight bit of anti-seize. I don’t use anything between my barrel, it’s not needed and nothing gets hurt. I torque to 80ft/lbs but always check with your action manufacturer. I have an older video you may want to look up regarding switch barrels.
If you're trying to shoot the smallest groups possible, why shoot at a crosshair? You have a crosshair in your scope, correct? Maybe the crosshair in your scope covers (subtends) the crosshair on your target. My advice to you is shoot at a black and white square of a size that matches the X's of your scope. I can shoot benchrest quality groups with .375 H&H Mags equipped with Leupold straight 2.5 X Ultralight scopes simply by tacking up 8.5X11 paper square with the world and quartering it with the crosshair. You don't need crosshairs, orange circles, diamonds, grids. Shoot a black and white square and quarter it perfectly with the crosshair in your scope. Your eye will do it for you. It's easy. If your target's crosshair is 1/8 inch and your scope's crosshair subtends 1/4 inch at 100 yds, your groups may be .125" larger than they would otherwise. I realize you are probably pretty young but this stuff comes down to common sense sometimes. Been at this game 40 years. Just think about what you're trying to accomplish.
Lol I like the statement these are good groups but they won't win matches. But I look at those groups and think, gezzz I wish I could do that lmao
Yeah I totally understand. Sadly it's a pretty tough crowd (including that Cortina guy 😜) at the top and they don't leave much if any room for error.
John can you forward that excel for the brass prep steps
I'm actually making a video showing how it works and will include the sheet.
Do you always expand before seating? I've been Resizing, expanding, then chamfer/debur/trim. Would that cause any issues? Also, do you take your barrels off to clean?
So here's the deal with how and why I do it. I actually expand twice. Once when doing my brass press and that's mostly to ensure that the necks are all the same when they go into my Giraud. I also expand right before seating to make sure the necks are good after being handled and potentially bent for some weird reason. IF I was only going to expand one it could be done either like you're doing it, or right before seating. I know guys who do both.
@@FClassJohn Awesome! thanks for the quick response!
What do you shoot 284 in what cartridge
Hey, i love your channel, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
What is your take on Monolithic bullets? I guess consistency should be great, is the lower specific weight such a big drawback or are there other factors as well that speak against them?
I’m sorry but I honestly don’t have any experience with monolithic bullets so I can’t really speak to them. All I can tell you is guys who I know who have tried them for F-class feel that they are actually a detriment but I know they have their place in ELR and other disciplines. Wish I could be more help in that regard but I just don’t know enough about them to comment. Sorry
F-Class John Interesting, thanks a lot!
In Europe there is a trend for monolithic hunting bullets and a lot of guys loading those are strong believers in them being more accurate than anything else. Which to me seems odd since nobody in Benchrest or F-class seems to be using them.
I loaded my first batch of monolithic bullets an hour ago and will be at the range tomorrow, i‘m very curious!!
Thomas Rauchenwald Best of luck to you and let me know how those go. I know there is a combination of factors that make them undesirable in F class but I don’t have the fax in front of me and don’t want to state something that is inaccurate. All I know is some of the top shooters tried them and instantly went back to jacketed bullets.
I hand load monolithics for hunting up here in Alaska. For hunting they are great...especially when maximum penetration and weight retention is desired (bull moose, bears). Most monoliths shoot best far away from the lands 0.050-0.080" and their BC is poor relative to what F-class shooters are shooting. For example, a 7mm 168-gr Barnes LRX long range hunting bullet has BC of 0.55 (heaviest 7mm available in LRX) , a Berger 7 mm 190 Grain Long Range Hybrid Target has a BC of 0.75.
John, do you feel new unfired prepped brass would have to be fired first to ensure consistent results in performance?
In the grand scheme of things of course fire brass will be more consistent. However, I’ve shot virgin brass at Nationals and won several medals and I know other guys who do it too. If you have good brass and test with the virgin brass you can often get great results as long as you understand your load will most likely change once it’s been fired.
@@FClassJohn Thanks for the quick reply, Is your load development testing done at a specific distance? Your testing is done in three round groups, How did you determine this number. Sorry for all the questions, I just found your channel. There's so much to learn. Thanks again!
@@anthonyc2370 I do most of my testing at 100yds. On new calibers or unfamiliar loads I'll do a little testing at 300yd but usually I go from 100yd to 600yd and then 1000yd. I do 5 shot groups on powder charges and three shot groups on everything else at 100yd and then my group sizes vary when testing at 1000yds depending on what I'm testing. It's all about getting the best result from the fewest rounds so you don't kill barrels doing nothing but testing.
@@FClassJohn Thank you, that's great advise!
What are your criteria for dropping a barrel?
Typically around 1600rds unless it starts throwing weird shots before that and I've gone as long as 2000rds.
John which Defiant action are you running?
I'm currently running a pair of Deviants. I order mine directly from them and they're great to work with plus they'll let you pick your own serial number. I have custom sequential numbers.
@@FClassJohn are you running the deviant tactical or the elite? Are you using the medium action with 284?
@@ryanmitchell8132 I’m running tacticals in medium action (which is really equivalent to a Remington short action).
I can't afford the amp annealer what would you recommend for a person on a budget for a annealer?
Ronnie Baker - I’ve looked at the alternatives myself & come to the conclusion that either I should use the AMP or nothing as the other induction annealers look & operate as if they were early prototypes & depend on user judgement to some extent (which is a very bad idea). Annealers working with flames are totally inadequate when it comes to ensuring you get the annealing results you need (unless you can test hardness). Salt bath annealing is a bad joke. Only the AMP allows you to get the results you need consistently & with the ability to do it on your loading bench. I won’t be buying an AMP myself as I don’t think the advantages of annealing are important enough for me but at the moment any other machine is a waste of money (unless the user fools themselves as to the results).
I mostly agree with Ronnie below although I know some great shooters who use flame annealing with a Benchrite so clearly they have it figured out. All of that being said nobody can totally agree that annealing actually makes a bullet more accurate. What most do agree on is that annealing at its most basic will extend the life of your brass and most likely allow for more consistent neck tension. But there again I know some incredible shooters who have NEVER annealed and just tear up targets. Bottom line is if you’re shooting great and not annealing then don’t feel like you have to rush right out and get one.
Where could I go to print some of them targets thanks in advance.
Here's the closest I can get you cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0525/7235/6768/files/ShotMarker_Load_Dev_Target.pdf?v=1614621078
F-Class John thank you so much.
How did the 190 atips pan out? And is that with a Rsaum or 7 300?
They’re good bullets but didn’t have enough freebore so they’re compressing a lot and causing issues. After nationals I may play with them again free I increase my freebore. It’s a wildcat Rsaum
That's a hell of a lot of shooting John, you must have deep pockets to burn through that much ammo, kudos to you ya lucky bugger!
I save in other places so I can enjoy my hobby.
Cool video. 1,100 rounds in 22 days!
I love going to the range, what can I say. I try to follow Cortina and others who say “perfect practice makes perfect”. I go to the range with a goal in mind and try to leave with results either good or bad that validate those goals.
What cartridge are you shooting
I've been playing around with a wildcat 7rSAUM called 7 Sherman Short. It's not for everybody but it looked fun.
F-Class John a few shoot the 7 saum here but the top lads are all 300wsm I run a 284 win how you finding the 7 Sherman short
@@James-prs-uk Yep I see lots of .284 and 300wsm. At the end of the day I think if a someone matches their gear to their abilities you see success no matter what caliber. You have to have confidence in your gear before wind calls start making a difference. It's a work in progress but it's been fun so far. We will see in a couple weeks at Nationals....
F-Class John I planned to shoot national this year but that went out the window as it got cancelled here in the uk so maybe next year I hope to learn a lot from the lot of time spent shooting
At Min 1:52 group number 8 won't win matches!!!!
I wanted to shoot F class but now.. I'd rather be on an island drinking rum 🥃 with a girl that smells like coconut 🥥
well you do make a compelling case......
@@FClassJohn I worked up a sub moa load with 175 SMK and Varget for 308.. And have been loading the same thing for about 5 years.. Never failed me! I use the same 175SMK with 47gr of Varget in my 30-06 with ragged hole results.. Use the 175smk and a 220Smk for my 300WM and H1000.. I don't experiment much.