Thanks for the film! I plan on moving to Walnut Creek in 2014, and one of my main reasons for moving to the bay area is the BART. I want to work there as a maintenance technician. In the meantime, I enjoy learning all I can about it... helps keep my dream alive.
Thanks for your input. The ATC system BART still requires human programming at BART's nerve center (Lake Merritt) so it is not true automation, but a lot less human intervention today than it was when the original computer was in use and the OCC and TO had to frequently use a telephony system between each station as the semi-conductor transistorized computer was repeatedly plagued with bugs. I am aware that there are standard manual controls in each cab with a T-bar throttle used as a back-up.
Civic Centre having " / UN Plaza" tagged to its name is creepily telling. The same crap happened here whereat Square-Victoria had "-OACI" added to its station name (int'l civil aviation org).
This was really fun to watch ! Right after BART opened (1973?), my Dad and I were enroute to an Oakland A's game from our home near Daly City., speeding along on an high-elevated line. Suddenly, right next to where I held onto my Dad's hand, the BART train doors mysteriously opened (computer-automated). Dumbstruck, we just stood there, for about 3 seconds. Then, the doors closed again.
This video messed with my head. I have no memory of the old style destination screens (seen in Walnut Creek). I always assumed those were gone by the late-'90s, but I guess some were slow to get replaced. I see the newer (at the time) ones at Embarcadero. The odd thing is, my mom and I went to Walnut Creek a lot, around this time, to go to Target. So maybe the old destination signs were there and I just completely forgot that I ever saw any. I would also always stand at the cabin door, particularly in the A cars since they had bigger windows that were easier to see through, and I don't remember those cars having the intercom phones hanging like that so early, either. Eventually, they all did, but I remember the A cars always having the phones placed down, parallel to the control board.
Actually, BART is the first automated system as a whole, not just a particular line as the Victoria Line while the remaining lines still required manual operation at that time. The New York Subway system also installed a crude form of automation on its Grand Central-Times Square Shuttle in the years prior to BART but was short-lived due to a fire. While BART is not true automation, which still requires human assistance, it is mostly a "hands free" operation as the operator has to do little.
The Expo Express was the very first. Having preceded this by five years, it even preceded the Victoria Line by one week. On- and off-islanders - let alone the world - were guaged to be ill prepared to spy nobody staffing the driving cabs, so I suppose it must've been the only time e v e r when drivers did fuck all.. .. . .
good job. the reason for humans in the cabs was that bart had several instances of trains going through the buffers at freemont. i made a scrap book when i was a kid about bart and am now kicking myself for getting rid of it all those years ago indan guage was chosen for the reason as many remembered the old sacramento northern/ key system freights running on downtown streeets . the reason why third rail was chosen as the voters didnt want trolley wires all over the place .subways in berkley was chosen as there was too much conjestion downtown. also the key system was partly automated on the bay bridge ( the old bay bridge) from berkley to the sf old transbay terminal. key was also automated onto the warf to meet ferrys before the bay bridge . now we got fleet of the future cars running on the system. thanks for the memories
Okay...what I said a long time ago about door controls is wrong. I've realized that. So I do apologize for my snobbishness. However, does anybody know WHY (other than "it's cool") BART, and most other systems now, are automated? Why not just run the trains with human beings like has been done for a long time? You'll notice, for instance, that the computer slows down significantly when approaching a station, then drops to a lower speed when entering it, before finally finishing the deceleration. It is not a smooth motion, but more like a series of individual ones. A human, it seems, could control that deceleration over a period of time, and possibly slow down later while still making a safe stop. Additionally, the computer can do some pretty stupid things, such as: - Speeding up after the Oakland Wye when entering Lake Merritt, only to slow down again moments later. - Between Rockridge and Macarthur, a similar event happens: trains speed up shortly after leaving the station, and for a short period manage to pass freeway traffic, but then begin slowing down again something like halfway to Macarthur (around Children's Oakland). - Occassionally, a train will stop at a station, begin to depart (creeping along the platform) and then stop with its last couple of cars on the platform, or just get right past the platform and stop. Seems like the logical thing to do in situations where the train doesn't have a clear path past the station is to leave it berthed until such a time as the path is clear. Apparently, though, the computer doesn't figure that part out. - Isolated incident, but the other day, I ws on a train arriving at Macarthur, and the computer actually stopped the front car short of the platform...it then eventually crept us along the platform (the whole length, mind you, given it was a 10 car train), and stopped properly. Things like this, be they normal or occassional, are in my mind, things that the occur out of the computer's "stupidness" if you will. That is, computers are theoretically perfect, but they do not think like a person, and will do only what you tell them. If what you tell them results in an error, they won't know what to do about it, and they can't read your mind (yet).
The speed of our own automatic metros isn't customarily staggered like that at all. I know, it is aggravating. But then again the only signalling ;) our own trains basically contend with here is that neither the tunnel nor platform ahead bear any metro car w h a t s o e v e r .
I am pretty darn sure that what you said about the train operator's duties is untrue. You will notice that in almost every instance, trains close their doors and begin moving while the train operator is still sticking his/her head out the window. They do not have a control panel at the windows.
@PyROphantasie Thank you for your input. I am aware of the recent news of BART's incidents: i.e. BART's police force and protests. I just wanted to keep it all technical. I cannot agree with you more on 1st Amendment issues, which BART violated since it is a public transit managed by a three-county district. The 1st Amendment protects the right to a peaceful assembly, but does not protect mobs, those who instigate violence and riots, which here there wasn't any. Hopefully this will be resolved.
The thing I don't get is if they are still manning the trains, what's the point in automating them? If the system isn't reliable enough to run it unmanned, then I'd rather just have it run manually under human control.
Thanks for the film! I plan on moving to Walnut Creek in 2014, and one of my main reasons for moving to the bay area is the BART. I want to work there as a maintenance technician. In the meantime, I enjoy learning all I can about it... helps keep my dream alive.
Thanks for your input. The ATC system BART still requires human programming at BART's nerve center (Lake Merritt) so it is not true automation, but a lot less human intervention today than it was when the original computer was in use and the OCC and TO had to frequently use a telephony system between each station as the semi-conductor transistorized computer was repeatedly plagued with bugs. I am aware that there are standard manual controls in each cab with a T-bar throttle used as a back-up.
Civic Centre having " / UN Plaza" tagged to its name is creepily telling. The same crap happened here whereat Square-Victoria had "-OACI" added to its station name (int'l civil aviation org).
This was really fun to watch ! Right after BART opened (1973?), my Dad and I were enroute to an Oakland A's game from our home near Daly City., speeding along on an high-elevated line. Suddenly, right next to where I held onto my Dad's hand, the BART train doors mysteriously opened (computer-automated). Dumbstruck, we just stood there, for about 3 seconds. Then, the doors closed again.
This video messed with my head. I have no memory of the old style destination screens (seen in Walnut Creek). I always assumed those were gone by the late-'90s, but I guess some were slow to get replaced. I see the newer (at the time) ones at Embarcadero. The odd thing is, my mom and I went to Walnut Creek a lot, around this time, to go to Target. So maybe the old destination signs were there and I just completely forgot that I ever saw any.
I would also always stand at the cabin door, particularly in the A cars since they had bigger windows that were easier to see through, and I don't remember those cars having the intercom phones hanging like that so early, either. Eventually, they all did, but I remember the A cars always having the phones placed down, parallel to the control board.
Actually, BART is the first automated system as a whole, not just a particular line as the Victoria Line while the remaining lines still required manual operation at that time. The New York Subway system also installed a crude form of automation on its Grand Central-Times Square Shuttle in the years prior to BART but was short-lived due to a fire. While BART is not true automation, which still requires human assistance, it is mostly a "hands free" operation as the operator has to do little.
Norskygutt Nope, PATCO preceded it by 3 years.
The Expo Express was the very first. Having preceded this by five years, it even preceded the Victoria Line by one week. On- and off-islanders - let alone the world - were guaged to be ill prepared to spy nobody staffing the driving cabs, so I suppose it must've been the only time e v e r when drivers did fuck all.. .. . .
good job. the reason for humans in the cabs was that bart had several instances of trains going through the buffers at freemont. i made a scrap book when i was a kid about bart and am now kicking myself for getting rid of it all those years ago indan guage was chosen for the reason as many remembered the old sacramento northern/ key system freights running on downtown streeets . the reason why third rail was chosen as the voters didnt want trolley wires all over the place .subways in berkley was chosen as there was too much conjestion downtown. also the key system was partly automated on the bay bridge ( the old bay bridge) from berkley to the sf old transbay terminal. key was also automated onto the warf to meet ferrys before the bay bridge . now we got fleet of the future cars running on the system. thanks for the memories
Wow, coincides with the Munich U-Bahn and S-Bahn service. They started in 1972 as well!!!
Actually you're wrong too! That line was automated in 1968, The Barcelona Metro was the first automated in 1961.
Nope. It still required operators staffing the d r i v i n g cabs, silly.. .. . .
BART was automated in 1972. The expo express was the first
Okay...what I said a long time ago about door controls is wrong. I've realized that. So I do apologize for my snobbishness.
However, does anybody know WHY (other than "it's cool") BART, and most other systems now, are automated? Why not just run the trains with human beings like has been done for a long time? You'll notice, for instance, that the computer slows down significantly when approaching a station, then drops to a lower speed when entering it, before finally finishing the deceleration. It is not a smooth motion, but more like a series of individual ones. A human, it seems, could control that deceleration over a period of time, and possibly slow down later while still making a safe stop. Additionally, the computer can do some pretty stupid things, such as:
- Speeding up after the Oakland Wye when entering Lake Merritt, only to slow down again moments later.
- Between Rockridge and Macarthur, a similar event happens: trains speed up shortly after leaving the station, and for a short period manage to pass freeway traffic, but then begin slowing down again something like halfway to Macarthur (around Children's Oakland).
- Occassionally, a train will stop at a station, begin to depart (creeping along the platform) and then stop with its last couple of cars on the platform, or just get right past the platform and stop. Seems like the logical thing to do in situations where the train doesn't have a clear path past the station is to leave it berthed until such a time as the path is clear. Apparently, though, the computer doesn't figure that part out.
- Isolated incident, but the other day, I ws on a train arriving at Macarthur, and the computer actually stopped the front car short of the platform...it then eventually crept us along the platform (the whole length, mind you, given it was a 10 car train), and stopped properly.
Things like this, be they normal or occassional, are in my mind, things that the occur out of the computer's "stupidness" if you will. That is, computers are theoretically perfect, but they do not think like a person, and will do only what you tell them. If what you tell them results in an error, they won't know what to do about it, and they can't read your mind (yet).
The speed of our own automatic metros isn't customarily staggered like that at all. I know, it is aggravating. But then again the only signalling ;) our own trains basically contend with here is that neither the tunnel nor platform ahead bear any metro car w h a t s o e v e r .
To order more operators,less money
I am pretty darn sure that what you said about the train operator's duties is untrue. You will notice that in almost every instance, trains close their doors and begin moving while the train operator is still sticking his/her head out the window. They do not have a control panel at the windows.
@PyROphantasie Thank you for your input. I am aware of the recent news of BART's incidents: i.e. BART's police force and protests. I just wanted to keep it all technical. I cannot agree with you more on 1st Amendment issues, which BART violated since it is a public transit managed by a three-county district. The 1st Amendment protects the right to a peaceful assembly, but does not protect mobs, those who instigate violence and riots, which here there wasn't any. Hopefully this will be resolved.
The thing I don't get is if they are still manning the trains, what's the point in automating them? If the system isn't reliable enough to run it unmanned, then I'd rather just have it run manually under human control.
tf51d it's both. It's a mix.
bart is awesome i go to embarcadaro from glen park when i goto san fran which is like 5 months
well you are Wong with the "first driver-less train in the world" the London underground victoria line was the first in the world!!!
The Expo Express beat out the Victoria Line by one week at introducing fully-automated revenue service to the world.
Expo Express was the first