What’s behind US export controls on technology to China? | Inside Story
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- Опубликовано: 9 окт 2022
- US President Joe Biden has imposed sweeping controls on exports of semiconductors to China.
Also known as 'semis' or 'chips', semiconductors are needed to run nearly all electronics.
American companies will be restricted from selling advanced chips to China, and supplying Chinese firms with tools to make their own.
China has accused the US of weaponising technology.
What's behind Biden's decision?
And how much is down to politics?
Presenter: Hazem Sika
Guests:
Vasuki Shastry - Associate Fellow, Asia Pacific Program, Chatham House
Dan Wang - Chief Economist, Hang Seng Bank (China)
Yang Wang - Senior Analyst, Counterpoint Research
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#Microchips #Semiconductors #Powerchip #Biden #China #ChipsAct #InsideStory
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Japanese semiconductors were global leading in the 1980s, then the US government accused Japanese companies of unfair competition and sanctioned the Japanese companies heavily, and the market share of the Japanese semiconductor was then replaced by the Taiwanese and Korea manufacturers. The US-Japan semiconductor agreement still stands today in which 100% import tax is placed on Japanese semiconductors, whereas countries like Taiwan and Korea are paying less than 5%.
Actually no. That ended in 1996. It is also true that Japan had unfair trade/econ policies against the US chip makers -- eg, domestic partnership requirement to access their market, tech transfer. If they sound familiar, that's b/c Japan was the inspiration for China's blatant protectionist policies.
@@tooltalk Yeah, it's always the same excuse because they couldn't compete. Japanese cars was known for its lower price and fuel efficiency when compared with American cars, in the 70s the US companies couldn't compete with Japanese imported products so the US government forced Japan to sign the Plaza accord in 1985, which manipulated its currency and forced Japanese yen to appreciate against dollar multiple times, thus brought Japan into 20 years of economic slump. It would make sense if the US had done this to China, but Japan is the biggest ally to the US in Asia in terms of economy and military, it's been treated the same way simply because the US does not want to lose the position of world dominance, to its enemies nor allies.
@@WorldSpaceRace I agree with what you just said, but these dots are making your comment rather difficult to read.
@@WorldSpaceRace : LOL! You are clueless.. Firstly, ASML's litho systems are a whole package over 100m long.
Second, China has nothing to worry about if they indeed surpassed the US in everything. So stop whinning and just go organically develop your own lithos, ICS, EDA's from ground up. LOL!
Third, almost all of TSMC's chief exec's and top engineers are educated in the US and worked at various US tech companies learning critical industry known-how before they were able to walk; yes, that include Morris Change, the founder of TSMC who spent nearly 30 years at TI.
Fourth, I have no doubt in my mind that China would one day develop their own unique lithos completely independent from anything the West invented so far in complete isolation, but that's about 80-90 years down the road. You and I will most likely to be dead by then -- of course, unless China's amazing advances in medicine help us live 50 years more. LOL!
Fifth, ASML is a Dutch company, but it sources about 80% of components from other countries -- about slightly less than 25% comes from the US. ASML's light source/laser from Cymer in the US, now a ASML subsidiary, is one example; Zeiss, a lense/glass maker from Germany, is another. There is no known Chinese supplier to ASML -- and you wonder.
@@haixinzheng9759 : what are you whining about if China's so competitive or surpassed the US already? Look, Japan still dominates the automobile business of the world -- still #1 in the US. Seriously, China is the last country that comes to mind when I think of "fairness." Just think about how China used various subsidies and incentives to attract EV batter makers, only to pull them away from foreign competitors when South Korean battery makers entered the market in the name of protecting and fostering their own young, small battery makers. Neither China or Japan should expect everyone to play "fair" while they hide and protect themselves from competition.
The US did this to Japan's semiconductor manufacturing during the time of Reagan. Japan obliged to commit suicide and entered into a lost decade which it has not really recovered. China will not fold like Japan who depended on the US military umbrella.
Japan is NOT dependent on US military umbrella, it is an occupied country -please get this right. US military personnel in Japan are above the Law in Japan. They cannot be arrested or charged by Japanese authorities for crimes committed, including rapes and murders .. many examples of these in the past 40 years. Look it up.
If an emergency is declared in Japan, the Japanese military automatically comes under the command of the US commander..
So, tell me again, is Japan Not an occupied country?
Japan did suffer for over a decade that is true you were govt was selling at cost less than it it actually cost to make to get ahead you blame us that is sad we think after all both our countries have been thru and there is peace we think you've done well and actually have done it betteryoushould proud of that I think it's amazing sad if you don't think so
Last word on that we suffered too!
Nope not done yet I'm begging you please don't send anymore more robo pets to your elderly that don't don't understand they need human and real affection I cried myself to sleep for days that is your future not theirs just thinking about it brings tears
@@deborahbailey5035 Yes, nice. The atomic bomb helped with you population control, otherwise Japan will be over populated. What will you do then.. ungrateful.
How much is political? 99.723%
100% is about security.
@@EchoBravo370 200% about global dominance.
"What doesn't kill you, make you stronger"
This doesn't always apply.
@@vengefulspirit99 美国自己当年是咋做的？
@@jiangdaon you copy paste other's achievements
They wont if the free market is still a real thing.
@@bitter_truth8646 At least they can copy, that means their science education is successful. Real innovative cannot be replicated
So America dosent believe in the free market system after all!
The US only speaks in principles as a pretext to invade and bomb other nations.
Destroying globalisation is foolishness from USA's side. US dollar is going to die this way
no of course not, just look at their policies on agriculture.
*If they are losing ...*
fear of being overtaken is the cause. eventually China will overtake USA at all cost.
Why US can restriction sell to China, but When Indonesia restriction selling nikel without process. Europe complain to WTO and Win.
Because US is the Superpower
WTO is always biased against everyone except the west, as always.
Past history of US restrictions on China.
- Space. Yet China is now close to surpassing the US
- Aerospace engines. China has essentially caught up
- Civil nuclear tech. China is there
- the list is endless
In fact, with chips being the heart of all tech, it's the last battle left for the US, and as usual China with absorb short term pains and eventually emerge at the top with it sole supply chain of these criteria tech.
Nothing what you wrote is true
you hit the point
@@sonywayneso2856 Your life must be a lie
Not far from the truth. Chips might slow China down for a decade though.
@@sonywayneso2856 What you talking about.
US ban china from "international" space station.
China built its own.
US ban China from getting nukes. China got nukes
US ban China from buying advance jet engines.
China invested a ton of money and now is slowly building those jet engines.
Stop shipping chip material to US. See what they can do without all those chip material.
Ahh... Ignorance MUST be bliss.
It wouldn't affect us we design the chips not make them🤣🤣
@@kamareespencer9464 bro they are brainwashed ccp comerade
🇺🇸 🦅
all I know is things are cheaper when made in Asia and expensive when sold by the Americans
Slave labor in China ... hence cheaper. Maybe paying more for a product that isn't created by slaves is a moral obligation.
Chinese international space station will be a good example for US regardless how difficult it could be. At the end it was the US complaining about not being asked to tango with China to work together on Chinese space station.
US, France and UK recently have offered technology advice to China! China wisely refused all advice from these evil anglo saxons.
*"based on US Technology" - what he didn't tell you is even 1% based on US technology is "based on US technology", just as Taiwanese TSMC case (they reduced it to just 1% during starting of Huawei's sanction period) basically blackmailing every other country to follow its rules*
they can demonstrate to the world how to get pcr test effectively in space while the American is crying
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@robertgittings8662 who cares
@@dyu999 湾湾到处跑啊🤣
Really if someone runs ahead you trip them up and then say they fell , USA has no shame
It isnt called the Global Rogue State for nothing. It stays ahead by destroying others. Also known as the biggest threat to world peace.
@Corey Leander look into the mirror and you ll understand what ya just said
The US is restricting its own technology. It should have that right, just like how China should have the right to restrict the sale of its products. China is a potential adversary of the United States so it only makes sense to limit their access to US tech so that it can’t build weapons that could harm the US.
@Corey Leander that is your biggest problem. Start looking.
@Corey Leander Look into your mirror and reflect on your words.
South Korea is definitely among the top 3 chipmaker.. and India is not even among the top 5.
Agreed
As indian i agree
As an American, I want to see the US become an even more robust leader, and be more protective of the technology, but cooperating with allies is fine to some degree, we need to squeeze the problematic autocracies. More chips are needed and will be needed, the US, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, and Europe can all prosper with plenty of market share. Such technology is best among allies.
India will have to step up. Globalisation is on death bed and everyone is increasingly fetching for their own. So there's no other choice
Yeah, we are still not there.. It will take time..
Here where we are now in 2022: 1) China can now mass produce 28nm and 14nm chips 2) China can now build DUV (deep ultraviolet light) lithography machines that can print 28nm chips, and can print 14nm chips with double exposure 3) What is really interesting is that it has been discovered in some bitcoin mining machines that China has been producing 7nm chips. It is likely that through multiple stage of exposure, China can use the DUV lith machines to achieve what could be done only by EUV (extreme ultraviolet light) lith machines 4) As result, US government issues bans on ASML shipping DUV lith machines to China (US has long banning EUV machines to China) 5) In response, ASML escalates its shipment of EUV machines to China, sending a total of 23 machines in less than 6 months.
In addition, US is hitting China in the area of software used for chip design. On that front, China can manage to use their own "less than efficient" software to do the job. It is a blow to their productivity. But reality is that given time, they can perfect their own software with their own data.
It is actually quite unfortunate that US is taking this route. Frankly speaking, China never really want to be in the chip making business. It is more than happy to be part of the global supply chain. By giving up chip making, it shows loyalty and dependency to US. They call this "hide your intention and bite your time" strategy. Everyone wants to be number one. It is OK to keep a tight watch over China for its ambition. But destroying the order of global supply chain, and allowing China to have no choice but to make their own chips ... I think US is shooting itself.
Chinese recently has one popular saying, "as long as it is not built by God, we can build it too." So it seems.
Copy & Paste Yes. Let's see how this Bi-Polarised World fairs.
All the CCP China fanbois should reside there if its a glorious place to prosper from the innovations of the West Alliance.
Thank you for the only informed comment in the comments section
USA always Number one
FREE TAIWAN 🇹🇼
Amazing analysis, but technology doesn't wait around for you to catch-up. A lag of 1 year is devastating for competitiveness let alone decade.
@@nebyeelda5862 You don't understand the chip sales statistics. 95% of the chips used in products do not use cutting edge 5nM technologies so the ban only affects 5% of the products that China produces. It is certainly not devastating. It is more devastating for the chip equipment suppliers and consumers as the products will cost more or will be in short supply.
The three guests only regurgitated what's already in the news and offered no analysis. BOTH China and the US made the SAME mistake in the past decades regarding chip making. They both followed the economic logic of buying versus making to arrive at their actions. In both cases, buying was cheaper than making. This approach works wonderfully in peace time, but it leaves countries vulnerable in war time. Taiwan was simply lucky in that it saw a niche in chip making by focusing not on chip design but on perfecting the making of chips based on its clients' designs, as an outsourced manufacturing post for different branded chips for its clients.
Lucky your here so you can tell us all about it
In the Chip economy, there are designers and fabricators. Taiwan's TSMC is the lead fabricators of ultra advanced chips, and the leading designers of superchips is defacto USA followed by Japan. China had the benefit of fabricating low grade chips while seeking to steal know how for Taiwan but failing to recognize that Taiwan fabricates and the US is a leading designer. South Korea's Samsung is the second largest manufacturer who also recently moved the fabrication plant from China. The reason is simply, so long as China seeks to flex military and economic muscle globally in opposition to the USA, Chinese technological capabilities will and must be squeezed.
In manufacturing of anything that requires complex designs, the inherent operational difficulty is in handling the dual success between the engineering department that focuses on design, and the production department that actually makes the stuff. Things that may look wonderful on design may give the production department a mission impossible. The US leads in chip design but lags in ultra-advanced fabrication of ultra-advanced chips. There is also an economic problem in that designing chips for a branded final product is much more profitable than actually doing chip manufacturing. If a US company is to do both, it means making the high margin business subsidy the low margin one, unless the low margin one can be as good as Taiwan's TSMC, which has benefited from decades of perfecting their craft ahead of anyone else.
Exactly
There is something about the United States that I do believe is a little different but, since I'm a US citizen; it may be just bias.
America really getting desperate. Really really desperate.
Why? You mean like how China is? They banned Facebook, RUclips, Whatsapp etc..
True
Easy to propose reshoring of production. Actually doing it is going to be a great deal more challenging. Semi fabrication is one of the most gruelling and hazardous working environments.
China doesn't have the ability to make thousands of micro-chips. 85% of all Silicon comes from one mine in North Carolina. China will never be a micro-chip producer without the express Ok of the United States.
Great, let see you do it. Oh and JK don't expect the CCP give s**t for investment because it ain't coming.
Us doesn’t really want to reshore. We just want China not to have access
Just 1 word, "Jealousy".
Jealousy about what? Jealous about China not even being able to develop low end chips?
A lot of people don't seem to understand the difference between chips used in cell phones and cars in comparison to chips used in military functions and super computers. Nor do they understand the difference in difficulty to make them
most advanced military machines are secret and so how could we know?
@@morpher44 by understanding how machines that aren't secret work
@@awesomesauce980 Do you understand how current-day neural networks are made? The companies developing these for the consumer market keep some of this secret too. It is their secret sauce.
@@morpher44 you're not refuting my point. The point being that super high end chips are much more difficult to make than general use chips. If anything, you're reinforcing my point by adding another factor in the form of secrecy
@@awesomesauce980 correct, I'm not refuting your point ... just adding that we couldn't know anything about military chips -- unless we happened to be trained in their use, had access to their specs, etc.
Whoever sows iniquity will reap calamity
and the rod of his wrath will strike him alone.
Very good, well said 👌
A great proverb!
This is the last struggle of the empire before it collapses.
Makes you wonder how many warring kingdoms China will split into.
🤣
This baby isn't joing to collapse. It's the only game in town.
@@idahologbuilder1880 Taliban disagrees.
Lol dream on. US will continue to reign
US took those steps to Japan, euro, Soviet Union too
yes,, JPN toshiba died , France ALSTROM died too USSR dis-entegrated too . winner yankess .. see the trend .
I’m sure companies will be finding a workaround because the outcome of giving up the Chinese market can be fatal.
I don't agree, I believe that day has passed. Japan has closed the majority, soon to be 'all' of their factories and most commonly repatriated those jobs to Japan. Their next step will be who to they partner with to find labor. The Muricans are leaving China in droves, and with the sanctions this will continue and accelerate.
@Jack Smith fatal means death, death for a company is basically bankruptcy
Some CHIP companies will not survive. Others might take over those companies in trouble.
Keep hearing this threat and can't remember a time when it's come true.
@pearltan2082 The US chip tech ban on China is purely political as well as to protect its selfish global domination. lt doesn't care if the collateral damage could result in the devastation of some of its tech companies. Let them learn a lesson. They think that they can continue to intimidate others, like Japan for instance, but China is not Japan. The Americans are playing a very dirty and unethical game here. The world has to be cognizant of this reality.
Wow we can start a war over anything. Why can’t we cooperate and peacefully develop all our technology and resources for all.
Not when coopération with China and Russia only enables their nefarious and hostile attitudes towards their neighbors.
Because the US doesnt see the world that way.
The US wants to hold the world hostage as its sole leader and super power. They will never allow china to take that away from them.
Because the ruling class of the US has conflicting interests with that of other countries, most notably China. We are talking about a challenged empire that desperately tries to assert itself as the ruler of the world. It's also good business for them to distract people from domestic crises.
@@kwamekankam-boadu2467 China hasn't waged a war in more than 3 decades. The US, on the other hand, has invaded and destroyed numerous countries during that 3 decades, and conducted genocidal crimes against the occupied peoples. The US CONSTANTLY tries to topple elected governments in the neighboring countries (Latin America), it has funded death squads and coup d'etats in those countries to terrorize people into submission. Has China ever done things like that? NO. And what a big genius you are, supporting US bullying of China, because China is supposed to be the bully here. It's like, hello? Is there anyone living in your head? Cuz it looks very empty.
China is like Super Saiyan. Every time they get hurt, they become even stronger.
Nice joke 🤣🤣🤣🤣🖕🖕🖕
This quote dont work u silly
Yeah but it's a different level this time, it's like group games vs semis or finals
Yep, just like the Super Saiyan, that is all imaginary. They have failed culturally and intellectually. There is a reason that Chinese Americans and Taiwanese are way more successful and innovative.😆
The only reason china has any place is because the US protects shipping lanes for global trade. without the US nave china dies. and that's not even considering their demographic collapse on a level never before seen in history
chinese goku is much stronger then japanese hah
The critical player in all this is Dutch company ASML. They make the machines that make 90% of the world's microchips. I understand that this makes the US nervous.and they seek to control ASML as much as they can.........
Good female cats like the Dutch shouldn’t have that control.🎉
Not just ASML, there’re 3 biggest semiconductor companies in this world such ASML (Dutch company), Applied Materials (USA) & Tokyo electron with different technologies making the machines.
The Americans wanna control everything... literally everything. 😁
Correct..
In d end Taiwan will be d greatest looser because it is still Chinese n will be treated as a pariah ..
How will this impact the growth of Intel, Nvda, Amd etc...? As an American I understand the need to protect our technology and our nation. As an investor, I did not see this coming. My main worry had to do with de-listing chinese companies and Taiwan. Goes to show that danger can come from just about anywhere.
But we've been talking about the coupling from China since doesn't seem like you're that much of a good investor cause I don't believe it follows it like they'd leaving on nowhere trying to divest from China.
Do not complain, CHina, it's a good chance to be self dependent, China is the biggest customer of US Chip, use that money for US Chip to develop your own. No pain no gain.
They will still Fail on the Chip Tech battle
Who is " they " ?
@@jbbeiser983 America
@@jbbeiser983 China
Delaying the inevitable.
Actually, Biden speeds things up.
With these restrictions, the Chinese would have to speed up its innovative process on steroids.
India.? India doesn’t have any semi fabrication facilities. They just took initiative this year. Leading other
Countries are Japan, Korea, Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand
Mr Rehman you need to get knowledge upgrade. FYI most of the Intel, Apple, Nvidia, Arm, AMD and also analog chips are 70-80% designed by India. Either India or USA. Taiwan manufactures them.
@@MyGod-1 lmao fake news
@@MyGod-1
Brainwashed?😂🤣
@@MyGod-1 fake news
@@MyGod-1 Kuch bhi
2:48 Did he say India ? I dont believe it..🤣.
Interesting plan. Usa is trying to build its chip industry up, something that is technically challenging but also produces a more expensive product that will have a difficult time to compete with the main produces in Taiwan. At the same time it is blocking its largest customer. So make a non competitive product and eliminate the customer for it. Makes no sense.
Also, how do you think the Taiwanese will feel about the USA planning to take the out of business. I think it will push Taiwan closer to China in the end.
The US is already involved in many aspects of the best semiconductors, Taiwan is a partner, who hasn't been able to meet global demand and has an obnoxious China seeking to subjugate it. The US, Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea, and Europe can all prosper, squeezing out problematic autocracies is key. Taiwan has our support regardless, they won't be cancelled out as partners unless they fail in security related to the likes of China. The US with a focus & subsidies will offset extra labor costs, plus US access to energy and resources and it's sophisticated markets... will be difficult to beat.
The Tsai regime isn’t an autonomous government. It’s a U.S. vassal and will stay by US regardless, even if it kills TSMC.
@@assertivekarma1909 Taliban beat the U.S.. It’s not that difficult to beat the Western savages.
USA is not trying to build its chip industry, it's trying to kidnap other manufacturers to USA. TSMC founder n former CEO said many times TSMC cannot prosper in USA but USA told TSMC and Taiwan government to build 6 factories in USA
@@assertivekarma1909 Want to squeeze "problematic autocracy"? Start with USA
*"based on US Technology" - what he didn't tell you is even 1% based on US technology is "based on US technology", just as Taiwanese TSMC case (they reduced it to just 1% during starting of Huawei's sanction period) basically blackmailing every other country to follow its rules*
So what are you suggesting, replacing the thug blackmailing you with one who will beat you up and kill you? And serve you endless lies? This fond the Shanghai girl mentioned was a failure last time I heard about it. Putin will look like a puppy compared to Xi when Xi survives the power struggle and gets a third period.
The entire semiconductor industry is not only based on U.S tech, but IT IS a U.S tech.
Your salty tears are so delicious. You literally can't make chips without lithography.
因为美国霸权，它绑架了其它国家，禁止出售制造芯片的设备
We, American, controls all mainstream media outlets.
We control monetary system and advance software and equipments of all shorts and we have rich supporters in every countries on Earth.
We, Western allies, civilized India, Africa and Middle East and Asia along with China.
All countries have to obey our, US, dictation. WE dictates all rules and regulations. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
If it was the other way around they will make it a big news, this world is run by hypocrites.
Ya because the west doesn't produce products like addibas, nikie, appile. With no respect for intellectual property rights.
West does not block all the companies, amazon, google or any tech that comes in is blocked in china until they master it
Anglo-Saxon
@@jeremyyoung3616 Anglo-Saxon = current world order , but it would seem like that title is being challenged , i wonder how many people on this planet are tired of the current world order
My Huawei pro 20 is with me for the past 4 years and is still doing fine. Thanks
very interesting - thank you
@13:29, She is gravely mistaken. China is a major manufacturer of semiconductor chips. China’s several semiconductor companies don’t make the leading -edge 3 to 5 nanometer chips which is used in products where energy, heat, size, and weight are major constraints such as used in cellphone. Instead of pursuing leading-edge chip manufacturing, China’s commercial chip makers focus on making chips using yesteryear’s technology, the 15 -35 nanometer chips, which can be mass produced at a much lower price than the leading edge chips, and widely used where energy consumption, heat dissipation, size, and weight are not constraints. China is worldly known as the low price producer offering products at the ‘China Price.’ China’s forte is mass production; low cost producer of legacy chips; chips offered at cut-throat prices; huge revenue generation from massive scaling of production. TSMC’s forte is the making of state-of-art chip used in cellphone, satellite, and other applications where minimization of energy, heat, size, and weight are critical. TSMC generates massive revenue from selling the latest-and -greatest chip at sky-high prices. As TSMC dominates this sector of the chip market, buyers have no choice but to pay to play or quit.
But still falls under US jurisdiction..US control Taiwan's TSMC ..
Just a matter of time, 10 years, 20 years, China with millions of engineers graduated every year will find a breakthrough in advanced chip industry. 😊
By that time China will find itself being late for generations. Even 1 gen behind means losing a ton of opportunity to put the double transistor inside the chip🤣. Poor China
In the next life
Waiting for this coming December announcement, no need to wait 10 or 20 years.
Chip will become another EV car for China.
@@geogoal9176 Give the phone back to mummy now, be a good boy.
Maybe though they have failed so far. Chip tech is far from being USA controlled and is widespread in the western world and democratic Asia ASML and TLMC are both huge players for example.
The issue for China is that they are probably more than happy to go along with the USA and not give themselves a big Chinese competitor/
Human history shows that technology diffuses globally over time, regardless of how hard the original "owners" try to keep it to themselves.
In any case, USA is making 2 huge bets here:
(1) That China won't be able to grow chip companies that are just as competitive as their US counterparts
(2) That these Chinese companies won't then go on to dominate global markets ie USA end up globally isolated in its technological decoupling from CN. 🙃
FWIW, I think CN has a couple of critical long-term advantages over USA:
a) Large domestic market to support growth of its chip companies. Revenue --> profits --> R&D --> technological lead.
(The export controls has reverse effect on american companies denied these revenue streams)
b) Immense scientific/technical talent pool
Market-distorting protectionist policies will eventually backfire. 🤣
Obviously. I hate it when USA is making lives of others who trust them miserable. Another thing is sanctioning countries. With the Russia sanctions pretty much everyone has lost trust in US dollars. Now it's just a matter of time
@@badbadbadcat *"based on US Technology" - what he didn't tell you is even 1% based on US technology is "based on US technology", just as Taiwanese TSMC case (they reduced it to just 1% during starting of Huawei's sanction period) basically blackmailing every other country to follow its rules*
@@badbadbadcat *If US block its own export that will be no problem at all ... nobody will care 🤭*
but base material did not.
90% of 9N purity silicon on earth is from spruce mine,NC.
export ban will kick in soon
@@badbadbadcat Then why is the USD growing above all other currencies right now, if no one trusted the USD no one would be buying them. Most people don't think like you.
I WAS WATCHING A VIDEO😱😱😱😱😱😱😱HE SAID CHINA COULD NOT MADE BOIL POINT TIP😱😱😱😱😱THEY WERE GETTING FROM JAPAN GERMANY AND SWEDEN,SO FINALLY IT TOOK THEM 5 YEARS TO MAKE,NOW REAL HARD TO MAKE HIGH CLASS SEMICONDUCTOR,LET SEE HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO CHINA TO MAKE ONE
The current export ban is not just from the US but from any country in the world that might have used US technology in some way. The "Use US technology" is a fake arguement. The US can pass a law saying that Germany can't sell XYZ to China even if XYZ contained zero US technology. The US has secondary sanctions that says Indonesia can't buy Russian oil. What give US the right to do that? The fact that the US dollar is the global reserve currency and the economic pain the US can put on Indonesia.
Exactly. Xijinpoop should've listened to Deng and laid low for 100yrs. Instead he decided to pick a fight and now look at whats happened.
@@wotltkfkdgo it doesn’t matter if China laid low or not. The US will push down whoever is rising up close to it. If not for the 9.11, the US would have done it to China 20 years ago.
@@wotltkfkdgo😆what happened china economy is 19T$ ..it has it's own space station
@@didyoumissedmegobareatersk2204 yeah and a demographic collapse, one of the worlds worst polluted cities, and no meaningful allies. Hmmm 🤔🤔
@@didyoumissedmegobareatersk2204 also 19t but per Capita is something like 12k. Less than Uruguay looool
Remember when Motorola tried to build phones in Texas? How did that go?
Motorola at the point was no match to competitors in the industry. They were scraping along by selling low end budget phones. Hardly a profitable venture.
whats your point? That was 20 years ago
@@trasewagner7582 point still stands
Motorola phones were popular for a little while. Technology always moves fast. We used to use modems with land-lines. We used to have paper tape ... punch cards. We had big floppy disk drives. Memories used to be made with magnetic cores.
Nobody talks about the massive amounts of energy that is required to make "advanced" chips...
People are aware.
No their not, most people don’t care or have a clue. Don’t know why their building a new chip manufacturing plant in Arizona, when theirs a drought going on. Their only going to get longer and worse, last time I checked chip manufacturing requires a lotta fresh water usage.
Water
@@johnnyflores5954 you know the arizona plant will probably reclaim most of it's water like the nevada ones right?
Getting rid of one plant isn't going to solve all your water issues, it's a much bigger problem than that. People need to do more about climate change and stop taking more water than the planet is recieving.
However people are aware of what a chip manufacture consumes, it's not hidden information. Sure not everyone does but those people genuinely don't bother to educate themselve on much of anything.
But if you have such a problem with chip makers, you can always stop using technology. Better yet, live off grid being self sufficient growing food with permaculture.
@@johnnyflores5954 It's not like the earth is 71 percent water or anything...
Who will be the biggest customer for those chip companies?? Will there be a massive layoffs looming?
Job is the least of the concerns. Their r&d budget will take a nose dive. Will the US pass chip act every year for subsidy?
we see a trend of using drones in warfare now. In Ukraine, it was demonstrated that cheap, low-end drones could take out very expensive tanks and machines. All militaries on the planet will be re-tooling with technology.
@Jack Smith Think how difficult it will be for China to invade Taiwan. Soldiers in Taiwan, with small little hand-held devices, will be able to deal with very expensive Russian helicopters that China tries to use or incoming ships, etc. The anti-air will be inexpensive and do great damage to any air-attacking machines. There are anti-drone weapons in the works (or ready). It is likely the CCP already knows this because it hasn't attacked yet. The combination of low-cost & high-tech can defeat a swarm of expensive military machines as demonstrated in Ukraine. This is really great because those of us who are against a single-world government are happy to see that a small country can defend against a larger country. This prevents all big countries from eating smaller countries and prevents the notion of a single-world government. It allows for some of us on this planet to be free. If you want to be free, fight for it.
@Jack Smith Osama bin Laden, a person from Saudi Arabia was hiding with the Taliban as a guest. USA was after him because of 911. The Taliban are now in control. Trump admin negotiated with the Taliban and USA has left Afghanistan. Afghanistan is still a country -- not taken by another country.
This matter brings to mind a saying attributed to Socialist Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin: the last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.
It was Joseph Stalen not marx who made thag statement.
Trump "I'm the toughest on China".
Biden "Hold my beer".
They are the same. A bunch of losers
Trump didn't make things escalate. Biden already made the painful withdrawal of Afghanistan, Russia Ukraine war, North Korea missile threat, making China tension above all Inflation and energy crisis around the globe.
biden is an idiot
This will only help China develop their own chip industry. US knows it can't compete so just bans. Same happened with Huawei.
Hold my ice cream
The question is, which chips are dispensable and which ones are indispensable.
A better question is why autocracies are incapable of producing quality chips and high tech when Democracies like the US and Taiwan can do it so well?
@@Waverlyduli No chips no problem, they can steal
Free trade 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@dyu999
Let me quote former CIA Chief, Mike Pompeo, " we cheat, we lie and we steal, that what America is about"
Cheers thief!!!
@@Waverlyduli These folks enjoy the fruits of their labour, can invest become prosperous and call their Western leaders names or heros, and call things as they seem them without being locked up, tortured, poisoned or end up through a window.
slowing down advanced yet expensive technology is good for China. Capturing 70% less advance >14nm market surely harvesting most of the $$. Still, US sanction does not halt the semiconductor industry in China as what Toshiba has had. There will be game changing happening in China to be home grown largest semiconductor equipment and material supplier. 1nm just matter of time which US is lacking of.
Keep telling yourself that. Dreams are free.
Why do US sanctions fail? Because a platypus isn’t a bird
Sanctions mostly cause humanitarian crises, not democratisation. The answer lies in biology.
How about the suppli chain to manufacture the ASML EUV tools? I'm sure such a complex piece of tool uses some essential things that come from China. Can't china easily choke that part of the chain and cause havoc for advanced chip manufacturing everywhere in the world?
No. China is not a bottleneck as of now. Most important components come from either US or european suppliers.
Game is on, that’s every one knows
time to buy a couple of extra computers...just in case the supply chain is broken by events.
3 years ago when US started this embargo it has already caused the shortage of automobiles supplies all over the world. Now it will only get worse. Long live American empire🎉
5, 2022-The Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA) today announced global semiconductor industry sales were $46.9 billion during the month of October 2022, a slight decrease of 0.3% compared to the September 2022 total of $47.0 billion and down 4.6% compared to the October 2021 total of $49.1 billion. 11:22
Before 2004, the United States led the world in semiconductor technology, and foundries had to pay IBM's technology license fees. But in 2004, TSMC took the lead in developing 0.13-micron copper process technology ahead of IBM, ushering in the era of Taiwan's semiconductor technology leading the world. In 2014, IBM withdrew from the foundry business, and TSMC considered buying IBM's fab in New York State. However, even though IBM's technology has lagged Taiwan by a decade, the US Department of Defense and IBM, still worried about the influx of already lagging American technology into Taiwan, rejected the deal. High-tech semiconductor technology is the result of Taiwan's efforts to develop, and now the United States claims to "bring back" semiconductor production to the United States.
The technology TSMC chips are based on is created by the aryans in Netherlands. That's why chinese tried to persuade the dutch to sell them the tech and US stepped in at the very last.
Yeah more like moving the production to Mejico.
The cheap labour comercial outpost, dosent gonna hold.
Too bad Taiwan isn't China
@@inigoacha1166 Chip design is a capital-intensive industry, and labor costs are not substantial. So, TSMC is not taking advantage of cheap labor in the United States by setting up a factory in Arizona.
@@EnriquePerezBarahona too bad the US State Department website has always said “Taiwan is part of China” and that the US “does not support Taiwan independence”
But what prevents the ban from being circumvented through proxy countries???
I see stock market opportunities with all these political and economic moves.
Fear. Fear is what's behind it.
It's called prudence.
Leading. manufacturer China, India, US!
Isn't not correct.
wait... what about the idea of free market?
Is this not the same as what the US said about Japan they can`t build cars and there went 40% of their market now China can't make micro chips
no
I think no country in this world is experiencing too much pressure inside and outside like China.
You mean Chinese civilians ?
I Dont think , Chinese are probably the smartest People on Earth , they are just not so impulsive like western People ,
i mean you can yell at your opponent as loud as you want , maybe he is just thinking if he should crush your head or let it go .
That's the myth that china is facing any internal pressure
Wrong move. China has now the expertise on tooling design and it will not take a lot of time to fine tune it. I don't think China will tell anyone that they have already the manufacturing capability and producing various chips. It is likely that China's technology will be shared to other countries for a price.
China will disregard the patterns to reverse engineer the chip making machines
Share? U smoking?
*"based on US Technology" - what he didn't tell you is even 1% based on US technology is "based on US technology", just as Taiwanese TSMC case (they reduced it to just 1% during starting of Huawei's sanction period) basically blackmailing every other country to follow its rules*
Hope so.. Bi-Polarised World ahead us.. pickna side. Those whinging in the West can have crack on living in CCP China/Russian sphere.
Good luck..
Rubbish! It is near impossible to manufacture high end chips and that's why China is panicking.
There needs to be a lot of pain now to prevent incalculable pain in decades or years.
China: Lol I will make my own then
they (SMIC) are already capable to produce process of 7nm now, using DUV machines .. quite sure BiReN 7nm GPU chips gonna use this advantage.
China compnies uses Nvdia chips into thier AI products, which is some of best innovation.. its a lost for all of us . USA is stemming world technological advancement....
The yield rate of Chinese 7nm chips without American technology is not good, it is immature, and the manufacturing cost is too high. There is no market competitiveness. Can only be used in the field of military weapons
@@jackzhou4813 Like you said it is immature. Therefore, China has a lot of room to grow but grow they shall. But as the chip technology is quickly approaching its physical limit. A slowdown is going to occur in innovation of chip technology until a new breakthrough.
@@jackzhou4813 Well, when you cannot buy any chips, the the cost is not a concern if you can produce them yourself however low the yield rate, isn’t it?
China and USA should meet in the middle on this ~~ STRATEGY and COMPETITION.
Any of them doesn't know the word "competition".
A Capitalist dictatorship and a Military oligarchy.
(Who is who?).
Anglo Saxons want other countries to be subservient to them
China has been stealing intellectual property for years, abusing international law, behaving poorly in business practices, and is becoming increasingly militaristic and bullying neighbours & supporting other problematic regimes...
@@edgarmondragon4708 China is the first America is the latter
China dumping US treasuries. It seems the BRIC nations will decouple from the USD. If there is to be competition ... it will be global now w/o international trade as it was before.
let the market decide.
The Chinese spokeswoman accusation of "lack of fair play" is hollow as it comes from a country that does not practice. And since China has all the talents of pirating so why are they so worried and complaining?
*I like this statement better: it is fair to say that because of China's invention of paper, China is responsible for all the other take technological inventions in the world"*
you forgot gun powder which the west weaponized and used against China in the opium wars
All I know is nobody better try to sell me an electric car for a while
It’s coming 😂😅and some are good
If China can make its own nuclear bomb, send Taikunut to space using its own rockets and space station, China will surpass USA and Netherland, Japan, Korea in semiconductors in a relative short time. Once something exist using team efforts, it isn't that much harder to remake it.
Why were the chip manufacturers off shore anyways? Corporations are allowed to use taxes, policy and the military for their personal uses, meanwhile the taxpayers foot the bill. it's unbelievable how they never get pushback from the people.
They're offshore because TSMC offered a much better service, and more broadly to all companies around the world. And by focusing on building other people's chips, they became better at it than companies like Intel.
And it's no small thing to build an ecosystem for a certain kind of industry. You also need the right kind of leadership. In this case, TSMC's rise is because of the leadership and vision of its founder.
The US has 5% of the world's population. So you should automatically assume that 95% of the world's talent is born elsewhere. Some of that can be attracted to the US, but there's no way to try to win at everything internally.
There are industries that the US has advantages in and industries it does not.
Many countries already tried to manufacture semiconductor chips and made huge losses. The up front cost and operation cost while the margin is small. Profit came from big volume. Intel/Nvidia can only manufacture at low volume.
USA and India are 2 good examples of countries who are good at design but not good at manufacturing chips.
It is a reality that they need to stick to design.
Taiwan has the big silent China support behind it. Electronic manufacturing is Taiwan's main business.
Japanese semiconductors manufacturers outcompete the US companies to the extent that 6 out 10 world top semiconductor manufacturers were Japanese in the 1980s. Then the US accused the Japanese company of unfair competition and sanctioned Japanese semiconductor companies with 100% import tax, whereas the tax rate on semiconductors from other countries is less than 10%. The Japanese semiconductor has then been replaced by the Taiwanese and Korean semiconductors.
@@Leto2ndAtreides : almost all of TSMC's top exec's and top engineers, from the founder of TSMC Morris Chang to C.C. Wei, are educated in the US and spent significant time at various US tech companies learning the trade and industry know-how. It has little or nothing to do with genetics or being born elsewhere. I attribute TSMC's recent rise in the industry to US tech companies' rush to China/Taiwan-first shift past 10 years.
Thx for the news,we enjoy it in Uganda.
Good !!!
This might be another “fine, I will do it myself” moment ten years later. 🤨
As the US mounts efforts to intensify its crackdown on China's chip industry, China strongly fought back by filing a lawsuit with the WTO over the US' discriminatory measures, a move experts said is a smart action to solve a bilateral dispute under a multilateral mechanism and pave the way for further 9:22 counterattacks. Dec 13, 2022
Al Arabiya; Global Times
The US would do well to simply ignore the WTO rulings and who'd blame them? There're strategic fish and chips to fry.
10:01!
Good to hear. USA should have done this year's ago
Thanks to Trump ! He was the one who really did it !
Agreed , USA has given China too many concessions, thanks to Wall Street who thought if they flood china with money somehow China will change it political outlook on how they run their economy. Well it seem it actually had the opposite effect, China has been stilling tech as far as I can remember.
@@nathanolson3135 Solid proof?
@@filbao8113 😂They stole tech that even usa doesn't have it but still yeah
Biden can have chips as breakfast and dinner now.
Fortune Business Insights says that the global market was USD 527.88 billion in 2021.The market value is projected to reach USD 1,380.39 billion by 2029. 2:50
All this does is push China to self sufficiency. Other non-aligned countries are developing their industries and China could easily source it manufacturing from other countries. Its just a matter of time. Technology is no longer limited to superpowers.
China is 50 years away from making basic chips and semiconductors that can run basic tvs
China only managed to developed it's own ball pen tip only in 2017. This is how far behind China is in technology. China, the world's biggest manufacturer of ballpoint pens, has finally developed its own pen tips, ending a long-term reliance on imported ones - 2017
@Keyboard Emperor US is just returning the favor. Didn't China ban Facebook, RUclips, Whatsapp etc..?
@Keyboard Emperor This is the results of too much copying
@Keyboard Emperor we gave planes to the world, now we have to fight other planes. We make cars, now we have to fight other military vehicles. Sometimes it's better to keep a technology for yourself than to risk your own safety.
Yeah its very hard to build cheap chips in USA
👌👌👌👏👏👏
cheap chips only last about 6 months to a year ... then you have to upgrade to newer chips. It's very wasteful. Perhaps the thinking will change to make hardened commercial products that can last much longer, be upgraded with new logic (FPGA), reducing the waste of energy and resources, and commodities. There are many things that can be optimized here to get quality for the consumer. Certain low-power devices and better power management will be very useful -- allowing for smaller batteries. There is also energy-harvesting chips using ambient energy.
I hope the Chinese develop chips of their own. They're hard working people,I believe in them,the country changed herself from a hunger striken to the world super power in just 50 years. Others can cry as much as they want,jealous of Chinese progress and their model of development.😊
West was hesitant to share the defense tech with Turkiye,and nuclear tech with India as well. Both are developing their defence industry with turkish success in drones and we indians in missile technology and space exploration.
Regards talent, Vasuki points out the real value and also a decline that initiated a response, yet, the underlying depth of science/engr in China is an era ahead of a fading USA that must prevent others from using their stuff, not as capitalist factors like functionality per price point or proprietary process etc., instead the cloak of "security" thrown while running a most gigantus spying network globally, sigh ...
🕊
A Dutch company called ASML is the only one who can produce the machines needed to m ake the most complicated chips.Without these machines nobody cann make the newest chips.I heard nobody telling this
ASML is prohibited to export to China.... but there are....but's......Political but's
China can’t buy EUV lithography from ASML, now DUV as well.
Also Applied Materials selling machines which using nano technology to make chips. They don’t sell new models of machines to China either, I think
If you’re good at what you do and develop your own, you don’t need companies like apple to design and develop chips and software to manufacture
or countries like China to assemble them because that is all they do.
We will soon find out if China can make advanced chips with the equipment they have or not.
@@j.t.r1409 they invested 2.4 trillions of yuan for the 5 next year plan in it.
Even still Taiwan's chips are made in Taiwan but are designed in the US.
WTF JOE CHINA"S TRYING TO MOVE AHEAD OF US WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCURATE 20 YEARS AGO
China 🇨🇳, Russia 🇷🇺, Iran 🇮🇷 should get together create their own semi conductors.
Nah, none can do it apart from the zionists who knows the technology
Russia? A heavy sanctioned country that has probably killed the future of it's youth population. Iran? A regime that still opresses women and kills people for not wanting to live without the rules of the regime? At least you have China that has a strong manufacturing economy yet lives from western FDI, know-how. Let's look what happens when people speak up in China! No free media, internet and even systematic assimilation of minorities. Yeah they should get together and create their own semiconductors that would definitely never reach the likes of European, American or Korean/Japanese level.
BRICS+ should create their own semi conductors.
Do you really think their political systems can breed creativity and innovation
Come on
@@lojaiku5641 yes. Has both to do with politics but talent
@2:49 india makes chips? i thought they got out of that like in the mid 90s....
Just like me making chips for lunch
They produce many semiconductors but not high tech. Similar to the semiconductor fabs in Malaysia, Germany, France. Produce a bigger volume of 300 - 100 nm semiconductors. Taiwan is the pinacle e.g. 7nm but Korea also produces high tech semiconductors in comparison to India.
You can't control advances in technology using a cudgel. Only a fool will think that. You need to compete and outperform your adversaries in technology. But neither party have an inkling of the magnitude of the crisis. The reality is gut-wrenching. We have fallen far behind both the Europeans and Asia in chip technology. The gap is
widening and impossible to close. The combined high IQ citizens of our competitors completely overshadow what the US can muster. We simply don't have the
huge number of genius levels (over 140 IQ) that is commonplace in Asia. In the US, we divert smart young people to go into non-productive fields like law and economics. So with a shortage of high-IQ workers, we are sowing what we reap. We can't sustain an economy without production yet consumes imports ravenously.
Microchips and semiconductor chips aren’t the same thing
microprocessors were new in the late 70s, early 80s. They were made using semiconductors. microchips are system-on-a-chip with microprocessors, memories, I/O, etc. on a single chip. Now there are multiple processors on a single chip and there can be neural networks on the chip or digital signal processing or other more exotic circuitry on the semiconductor chip. There are also FPGA devices with logic that can be downloaded (slower but good for prototyping). There are many memory types. There are new kinds of stacked ASIC devices. The high-end chips are very exotic. The I/O collection is rich and complicated. The gamer machines have pushed the envelope for consumer computing.
Wow! Taiwan has dominated the chips market...
TSMC is an American baby still tethered to the 🇺🇸. There's no challenger in the chip world and tech space.
Their engineers are chines
@@SAGAWISIW30 nice joke u China slave person 🤣🤣🖕🖕 Taiwan is allways independent nation and will be
@@SAGAWISIW30
But Taiwanese original Chinese wants free trade with India.
Part of the process, they do a bulk of the sophisticated fabrication because they have subsidized the ecosystem, but they also rely on American & European partners for other parts of the process, and the U.S. also has sophisticated fabrication capability, but on a smaller scale, which they are further correcting.
Well, to be fair to US who invented most of the chip-making technologies, it has the very right to decide who the technologies could go to. With this being said, China is also in its right to develop its own chip-making technologies by itself. By and large, competition is welcome and will boost the development of technologies.
By same manner , every countries have right to sell their resources discriminately.
@@garfield2742 very true indeed, it is hard to some, but fair to the others.
Sorry, Syd but 85% of world Silicon comes from one mine in North Carolina. Yes, that is America and China cannot be a micro-chip powerhouse without the express Ok of the United States. In fact, China cannot even build the equipment to make the low end micro-chips.
Then what's the point for world trade if US can discriminate who they can sell?
What happened to free market capitalism and stuff 😁😁
China was ahead of the US in manufacturing years ago.
Should have done it years ago
Taiwan is the world's leader in chip manufacturing. Taiwanese are essentially Chinese.
Makes Taiwan an even more juicy target for China. Could drive up inflation even more, if that's possible.
Even if China invades Taiwan, it's still foreign-owned and controlled technology, so it wouldn't help China do anything.
Thr reason the technology is migrating to other places ASAP.
Taiwan is part of China, not any target as your little brain can understand.
@@jchanmcse Taiwan is an independent country for decades. You are been tricked by the Chinese dictatorship.
This is a very good example of how a free country has to react to protect their interests.
between these two country's.Americans talk with forked
tongue ask native indians.
Also USA government spreads anti
Asian propaganda and gets Asians
killed by stupid, ignorant Americans.
Sad but true.
You're an idiot on so many levels with this statement. What does Freedom have to do sanctioning others? YT America professes Free Markets and Free Competition. But the first hint of someone else leading in this they sanctions; and not just the competing party but EVERYONE else who might trade with them.
That is the true definition of a fascism. And you think YT America is "Free"?
*The lady in the middle has a great point*
Lifting a big stone to drop onto own foot.
Boomerang effect!!!!
China, thru Taiwan, already has cutting edge chip technology. US are building factory in Arizona to move Taiwan's factory to USA.
As if Taiwan will allow it.