I feel like War Machine deserves better, but yeah. His death at least meant more than Black Widow's since there's a possibility that Rhodey won't be alive again by time Infinity War comes out.
Black Widow dying was a bit shocking, but I [and everyone] know that she and everyone who's died recently will be revived [and Cap made good again] with the Cosmic Cube Deux Ex Machina that SE will surely end with... Possibly even as far back as War Machine. Everything will be smoothly reset in time for Generations and Legacy.
1. He gets full authority to mow down all the people he wants to Punished 2. All those who do die can be brought back, which could or could not include in his own family What's not to get?
I guess that's something Hydra Cap would do but Frank wouldn't join him, he probably would have tried to kill Cap the moment he outed himself as the head of Hydra (like when he tried to do against Osborn during Dark Reign)
I personally don't mind Marvel's events as long as they set up the events as well as they set up Secret Wars and Secret Empire. I just want them to have lasting effects like House of M and Civil War.
I actually don't think that this is a big deal, honestly. Yes, she's the most recognizable woman superhero at the moment, but this shoudn't be a good reason to not kill her. I think it's cool that she changed her mind and didn't want Miles Morales to be a killer, and after all it was an heroic sacrifice: through her death, she made Spider-Man realize who he really is. And in the end, Secret Empire IS a great event and everybody knows that somebody is going to die.
its suprising to think of when you look back at how much of the MCU spencer was using for his cap run. Chitauri: Exactly as they look in the MCU Sokovia: not that far off from age of ultron Selvig: practically in the same role in this run as he was in the avengers and etc
My take: Natasha never planned to make the kids killers. She didn't even want them there, but they wouldn't leave. So she uses them as extra hands to help her gather Intel and get things ready for when she goes after Steve. From the start she wanted it to be her so they don't have to.
even if ppl think the run is good. marvel does not realize how much they have soiled captain america's character. this is adjacent to having a whole series where batman goes around killing little kids parents.
Thorgi. I understand what your problem is with this book is but to me I see it in a different way. First of all yeah a lot of people like her in the movies and really only ask for her to have a solo movie but to me she still just a side character especially in the films. She's not as important as Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Or Ironman. And I honestly really don't understand how people can get upset about it death anymore when a person dies in a comic because they all just come back anyways as Hulk did in SE. I reckon she'll be back by the end of the last issue anyways and I really do like that it was the motivation for all heroes. I just didn't see any other way they could've motivated all the hero besides Sam Wilson. I feel like Sam Wilson could've been motivated differently but for the others I don't see another way. I don't believe that every death has to be handled in an epic way. I don't think it should because I think then it be kinda less interesting if every death in a story happened in an epic way. And honestly I would rather have stories without any company worrying about The general audience that doesn't read comics. I feel like that would make stories better. And don't get me wrong I'm not doing a rant. Because I respect your opinion but this is how I feel about the issue.
What's sad is there was only one side story that was actually good: Black Widow vs. Tony Stark. It turned out Natasha was the one who kidnapped Ho Yinsen, killed his family, and turned him over to the turn him over to the Ten Rings terrorist organization. When Tony found out his one time lover was responsible for hurting the man who made him a hero, he was *NOT* happy! Sadly, we never got a conclusion to this since Tony went into a coma at the end of CW2.
Just to let you know, there are two action figures (that i know of) of Sam Wilson Cap, one is a secret wars one (which i own) and the second comes with Kate Bishop and Vision
Don't you think she will come back with the cosmic cube. It's been a pretty good story since Captain America #1. I think we just have to ride this out. I'm sure there will be a pretty big reveal at the end.
She wasn't training them to do anything besides help her kill Captain America. At no point that plan included one of the Champions taking the shot. They were always support for her assassination attempt.
With regards to the acclaimed social commentary on miles thinking he is a killer cause everybody see him as one Look, I'm a minority myself, and honestly man, it is not an issue unless you make it an issue. I did not see it that way at all when reading this book until you brought it up. The same almost word for word thing was said by Deadpool years ago in "The Good, The Bad, And the Ugly" arc where wade was telling preston something along the lines of "When people keep seeing you as a screw up, you start to believe you are one" and nobody made a commotion even though Wade Wilson is Canadian (so does this mean duggen was making a social commentary on Canadians now?)but now just cause that was said by miles, it has to be a problem? I personally would hate it if people now are going to use this scene you just mentioned as bashing against marvel as "OH THAT IS MORE SJW AND SOCIAL COMMENTARY CRAP" cause I honestly as a minority I am getting tired that everybody is making a commotion on every single little thing/line marvel is doing
Bear in mind it is late as I write this. One thing I want to address is the "dream Sequences" with Herr Steve Rogers and the red skull. I feel like an explanation is needed or they need to unravel what's really going on. Is that the spirit of pre 're written pre hydra Cap? Where is he and where is that Part of the story going?
"[In LEGACY, there's going to be a return... it's not going to be the Fantastic Four, it's not going to be Wolverine, it's not going to be Pheonixl.." Heh. Three for three, Professor. :)
I think Spencer stumbled when it came to that commentary with Miles, but I get where he was trying to come from. The whole idea if you disenfranchise a person or group, they're eventually going to lash out in response.
killing off main characters is a more realistic approach. A superhero turning out to be evil is more realistic as well, its a great twist and good move by Marvel. Im digging this series!
The commentary with miles is a bit on the nose but is on point. When people (both inside and outside you social/age/ethnic group) look at you a certain way (nothing but a criminal wait to happen or as apart of the problems of society), it can get under your skin and mess with your head.
da gingerbread boi Forced, to say the least. Some things, like Sam taking over for steve a second time(first time happened in the 90's), Carol finally becoming Captain Marvel while Kamala becoming the New Ms. Marvel, and Miles being elevated to being a protégé of sorts to Parker all feel like natural progression. Jane becoming "Thor" for a time is okay, since there was a "what if" about her wielding the Mjolnir a long time ago, and unworthy thor basically saying that part of being worthy is excepting others belief in your moral character and being confident in who you are. The problem is that rather than working to do a smooth transition of passing the mantle or creating new heroes, they make drastic changes to long established characters before thinking things through in the long term, which is compounded by the cascade of events.
JamcalX Thank GOD. I found someone who I agree with this on. It makes me so mad when people just write off miles and Sam as being some cheap knockoff when they haven't even picked up a single issue of theirs. I do see where people are coming from when they say that diversity is being forced but I hate when they are so quick to call people like miles and Sam garbage and don't give any reason as to why. I for one love to see people of color represented in comics because it (use to be and IS gonna be with marvel in the near future judging by how the CEO is talking) is rare. Now let me ask you this, what do you think of the way DC is handling diversity. I for one love it.
Why kill Black Widow? Unlike Wolverine, Hulk, or Captain America, there is absolutely no feasible way to bring her back. She doesn't have radioactive blood, or super soldier serum, or a healing factor. She's a regular person. I guess that Marvel really hates their huge plethora of amazing characters, because we've just lost another one.
A better reveal for the end for the issue would be instead of Sam Wilson putting on the captain America uniform Bucky sure put the Captain American uniform back on.
also heros have died and came back in comics for years. People act like this is a new thing. You kill Blackwidow off for shock value to draw people into the story. It works then you go with it.
I say we just let them tell their story and see where it goes before we get all knee-jerk about it. At this point with social media and the like and people being so informed with what the direction for things are nowadays, every content creator is damned if they do, damned if they don't (referring to Marvel as a content creator). Who should they have killed off then? And if no one then people would be complaining that there are no stakes and they are not taking any chances! It's almost as if Marvel can't win because the fans expect them to make their stories not too cold, not too hot, but not warm! Just ride it out and let them tell their freaking story, jeez! I don't think its tone deaf to kill her off... If they are constantly writing what the fans want them to write then there are no surprises left... Period. Fans of the film largely don't read the comics and only react to the headlines anyway; movie fans in most cases aren't comic fans or active comic readers like us few here. The news of Black Widow being dead in the comics won't ruin most movie Marvel fans day, with barely an aside reaction. Last I checked, her comics were pulling under 20k and was out of the top 100 (her best numbers were in 2014). Not saying that she is a bad character, just that if she is really as important as you say, the sales numbers haven't reflected that, despite her recent run being pretty good. And sure, she may come back within a year... Like that's a bad thing or unprecedented... It happens all the time and we are fine with it when things return back to the status quo, despite our best bitching and complaining about it. Or are you still upset for the past decades worth of resurrections of characters like Bucky, Elektra, Aunt May, Spider-man, Norman Osborn, Gwen Stacy (yeah, clone, but it still counts) Storm, Jean Grey, Professor X, Jean Grey, Professor X, Jean Grey, Professor X, Cyclops, Colossus, Tony Stark (when he was made Kang's bitch in the 90's) Jean Grey, etc, came back time and time again! we always say we hate the fact that we know that they will come back, but when they do, we take them back with open arms! Lets stop being hypocritical drama queens about this and accept the fact that we actually like our heroes alive and well, so long as they are tortured because of it! And of course we know that Sam will become The Falcon later on again... But why don't we see how they get him there instead of saying that it sucks the weight out of the story by knowing that fact (keep in mind, most comic readers actually don't follow industry news in that way. You are a little too close to the subject to make a fair commentary on it, I think). As an older comic book reader who has been reading for about four decades, and who still reads (but man, my backlog keeps growing despite my best efforts to keep pace), that we as current readers are a little spoiled because we know too well how the sausage is made and are, in my opinion, too quick to give our input on how to improve the recipe. Maybe its my age, but I'd rather just see where it all ends before I start making indictments on how they are doing/did it all wrong... Long story short, I think you are over-evaluating the value of (comic book) Black Widow and her importance, especially with so many other great female characters that deservedly can use the spotlight treatment from Marvel. She served her purpose as a catalyst/motivational pawn for this story and I am personally fine with her going out this way as it is fitting of her character. She's had her history and it made sense for her to be the one; after all, she is a tumultuous character that is based on the notion of making poor choices and then attempting to redeem those bad choices. Narratively, it makes sense that she be the one to fall, just it made sense for Hawkeye to be the fall guy for Civil War 2. I don't think that these two characters choices are coincidental. I don't know... Maybe I analyze these stories differently... Love your off-the-cuffs Thorgi, but I think you are wrong on this one and are reacting too much to the act rather than the reason why; the reason why it served the story, why it had to be this character and why it made sense. I don't see this as any type of colossal screw up; I see it as just fun comic book writing that aimed to have an effectual character moment. Perhaps I am wrong and you are right, and they failed; but I just don't see it that way despite my best efforts of considering your arguments. Fix your knee because it is most definitely jerking! j/k Good video regardless of my opinion!
SO what's the tally for the MCU Avengers? Stark - coma/AI going rampant and replaced by a juvenile criminal Banner - dead/ replaced Thor - unworthy/ replaced by Jane Foster (who is no longer in the movies) Rodgers - Hail Hydra Clint - killed Bruce Banner and replaced by a teenager and now Natasha - killed; pending replacement Good job Marvel; you've effectively alienated anyone that was on board with the Phase One MCU. Can't wait to see how you screw up your Rebirth knockoff...
They took out Stark and swapped Rogers heel killing Black Widow is a pittance in comparison. BW realized that SHE would have to be the one to assassinate Cap because the kids couldn't handle it, for starters and secondly she thought Hydra had killed the Underground and was angry. There are no golden geese. Black Widow's book wasn't a big seller she can die. Also she died to keep blood off Miles' hands. Her death was heroic.
Most of my complaints comes down to this basically being a huge marketing fail, they could have easily tapped into people's love of cap by saying "Yeah something is wrong, read to find out what's up." and made like a hashtag for it and try to get people guessing. From what I can tell it's not the storyline it's the outside execution.
Nick Spencer's real strength is he's a great character writer. Give him any 3 characters and he'll give each one their own distinct personality and quirks. That's his strength and why _Superior Foes of Spider-Man_ was such a success. Epic political dramas aren't among his strengths and that's what he's trying to do here. Plus the fans are getting event fatigue and that doesn't help.
Thorgi: it's not gonna be the fantastic four. Hm maybe Not gonna be wolverine. About that Not gonna be the Phoenix About that again Man looking back at this it's funny how much of what thorgi said did actually come back and is coming back
About black widow I think it might be over selling it on how big her character really is. I mean, as of late I just havnt seen her be part of anything real monumental in any marvel stories and even her own series I just, havnt heard anything on that whether good or bad(I mean, were the sales figures that great for her) but yeah it is recognized that she is pretty tight with the superhuman community so of course their should be weight to her death from both marvel and the people reading it cause that is what death is suppost to instill. I mean, at least the way I read it, the heroes were all already defeated considering their only saving graces were Tony and Black Widows plan to take action and now the fact that they both got stomped by hydra on top of black widows death(Plus, AI Tony also died as well), yeah, I mean, the heroes had a lot to feel defeated about other than just widows death
I didn't even finish the video dude. I'm super pissed at the "social commentary". I'm black, I'm a miles fan. People thinking I'm a criminal doesn't make me wanna steal a fucking car Nick Spenser.
You just explanined why I'm still mad about Cyclops' death and the entire death of X and Inhumans vs X-MEN comics. I've skipped entire event. I'm voting with my money for now on.
I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage over this yet. Nothing on comic news sites and most of my friends didn't know until I told them. I guess just that few people are still reading Secret Empire or care?
What a waste. I love Natasha and I was shocked when it was revealed that she was the one who killed Ho Yinsin's family and turned him over to the Ten Rings. It's been so long since a comic actually managed to shock me but that revelation did it. Yet nothing came out of it and her relationship with Tony since he ended up in a coma at the end of _Civil War 2_. What a waste...
Sounds like Marvel put a blindfold on and is taking a sledgehammer to the characters that are the pillars of their company. When is this world going to be retconned?
But you didn't bat an eye when war machine was killed or bucky or jack flag in this event. the latter two were killed in the leading to secret empire. So i don't see the big deal since all gonna be erased by the power of deus ex cosmic cube. if you did the i will apologize but after i see the link!
That about Sam Wilson return as Falcon who was revealed in new comics is actually is the set after Secret Empire event end to leave as Captain America, also Jane Foster is going die in Mighty Thor The death of Thor.
Marvel's social commentary, in any of the ***recent*** books I've read, is simply tone-deaf. Not just tone-deaf to the straight white guys whom make up the majority of their core and hardcore audiences (EX: Professor Thorgi). But tone deaf to the people they're trying (and oft failing) to represent. See Riri Williams. She's good at everything, apparently, and everyone loves her, apparently, and she rarely makes mistakes, apparently, and is one of the most intelligent people ever, apparently, and even notoriously selective SHIELD wants her, apparently, etc; not even the most shallow, most attention-seeking of the Millenial generation likes a character like that. And let's just pretend she's not a horrible, horrible role model for young girls for a second and ask, ***why not Rhodey?*** You know, the minority character who basically deserves the Iron Man title? You know, the fan fave? You know, the guy who's died multiple times in the past couple years? What about the character most of my black comics friends love? What about the character most of my military-family friends love? What about the only character that made my old, withered, 20-aged self get into and start reading the early Iron Man comics? What about James Rhodes, someone who has literally been Iron Man in the past and more than once? If you want positive diversity in your comic books, which I'd love to see more of, look no further than a literal fan-favorite character everyone's been begging for more of for years and years and years! I'm glad they want more diverse characters. But these characters also need to be well-written with perceivable, consistent flaws; I want more of Miles' hot, angry streak, I want the Ava Ayala version of White Tiger to turn back into the elitist b**** I fell in love with waaaaay back during Avengers Academy, I want Squirrel Girl to turn back into an example of body positivity for short, relatively flat-chested women and do away with the freakish looks she's got going on right now, I want Female Thor to stop talking about feminism at the most random and pointless moments and start talking about what's actually happening in the actual comic at that actual moment in actual time (because at first she was BADASS!), I want She-Hulk to turn back into the confident, intelligent, independent woman that got so many young women into comics in the first place, I want heroes to regularly and actively fight villains (and not spend several issues straight talking about cooking shows on RUclips or dense politics for imaginary countries), I want the X-men to become a thinly veiled social commentary again (and yes, even if it's 100% feminazi level or Alt-Right, White Nationalist level politics, either is fine by me so long as it regains the politics, like seriously the Xmen are an inherently political beast), I want the teenaged characters to start acting like the actual teenage generation (Gen X) and stop acting like entitled, uninformed stereotype-caricatures of Millenials, I want to stop seeing selfies on covers altogether because that's stupid no one my age likes selfies and they're just turning "the young folks" away every time they try it, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. And can we just talk about how every time I get into a MARVEL comic it's either canceled outright or stuck in crossover hell? I got into Guardians JUST before the movie was announced, then Angela showed up being cool and fun, and then BAM! CROSSOVER! BAM! CROSSOVER 2! BAM! CROSSOVER 2.59783! BAM! TIE IN TO THAT WEIRD STORY WITH THE EYEBALLS YOU DON'T READ! BAM! TIE IN WITH STAR LORD'S STANDALONE FOR SOME REASON! And then I gave up. Marvel, get your act together. Please... I can't be a fan forever.
People have to be honest as well: while Modern Hydra aren't nazis, its true that they were originally meant to be 'comic book safe' nazis of a sort. Also, I disagree with the people who say they are doing Cap wrong with this change. First, from all I have seen, it seems to be one of the few books that are actually selling well at Marvel. Second, you KNOW this change is temporary, and before too long they will fix everything (I'm thinking with a Cosmic Cube, which will 'fix' everything, including all the dead characters, although that would be too cliche). Finally, as I have said elsewhere, I wish they had the guts to do this (Evil Cap) in "Secret Invasion", although I could see why not after the reaction to 'Spider Clone".
I have a better idea, instead of killing Black Widow how about kill Miles father or his uncle? Those two are more closer to Miles then Black Widow and both have a better reason to stop Miles from killing Hydra Cap then Black Widow. I don't know what happen to his uncle in the 616, so have him try to redeem himself by getting in the way of the fight to save his nephew from making a bad choice.
- Being any kind of demographic doesn't make you invulnerable from the tragedies that happen in comics. Quesada has been a big proponent of this since Marvel made White Tiger and people were complaining about her going through intense shit in Bendis' DD. I don't want T'Challa to turn into someone like god tier Batman that has no problems just because we look the same. - Also that wasn't Ultimate Bruce Banner. - Ewing doing Ultimate Universe stuff in one of his books in no way means that it's a massive "CHANGE THE MARVEL UNIVERSE FOREVER" event. I don't even know where you got that idea. - Other than you I haven't seen the level of anger you've described of Natasha's crippling/possible death. I'm not trying to lessen your anger, just saying that you really overthought and overestimated this. - You also overestimate that general audiences even know that this is going on. You say that they love Black Widow, and that's true. But that's movie Black Widow they love. They don't read comics and it's weird that you want Marvel to take them into account with a story that Spencer's been planning for years that relies on heavy continuity that is specifically for comic readers. You can't complain when Marvel tries to appeal to general audiences and when they don't. There's a middle ground that they've been doing for a while now since the MCU started. - Also if you read this I think you have a great channel. - Also there are some Sam Cap figures at Toys R Us and they're pretty great looking.
I dont get most of this complaints. The fact that a big name hero died instead of some C-lister is good, it makes people care. Also considering how grim the situation is for the heroes it fits that she died in such a anticlimactic way instead of in some blaze of glory, that's how wars are, If everyone dies sacrificing themselves in an epic manner it will lose impact fast. Most deaths shouldn't be epic and the climax of a character's swan song, they are sad sudden and prove that anyone can go down at any time. Every character having their perfect, heroic, heart warming yet tragic send off with a bow on top is unrealistic even for comicbooks. This event hasn't been great but this has been the best issues.
Yaah. Andrea Sorrentino has some good looking art. Started following him as an artist since Green Arrow. But they say he traces alot though. Still looks good though. . .
29:00 Note from the future: All of the above came back ( I don't know about the phoenix only):D
I feel like War Machine deserves better, but yeah. His death at least meant more than Black Widow's since there's a possibility that Rhodey won't be alive again by time Infinity War comes out.
Secret Empire aka Character Assassination 101
Live To Rock yup indeed
Live To Rock finally someone who is talking sense
same goes for how they have been handling spider man for a while.
Unkown Stranger and the X-men, Blade and iron fist. They turned Blade into a paper boy
What about hulk killing the avengers (robot version anyway) in issue #6, so Ulysses was right in civil war 2.
Ulysses was always right. Just a little further in time then they thought.
TheAceVsKnight VsKnight brrrooooo i didnt even thought about that. Until now issue 6 was my fav.
No, because who did he kill? "Tony" self destructs, Barton and the others escaped so really who did he kill?
robot version? it was also banner
Of course that just makes Carol look more like a reactionary idiot...
Black Widow dying was a bit shocking, but I [and everyone] know that she and everyone who's died recently will be revived [and Cap made good again] with the Cosmic Cube Deux Ex Machina that SE will surely end with... Possibly even as far back as War Machine.
Everything will be smoothly reset in time for Generations and Legacy.
Nick Spencer said nope.
Nerwrax15 Nick is clearly a liar. He pulled a 180. Natasha will be back later.
No its bring everyone back
well it's not a Deux Ex Machina since it's been set up sence the begianing it's a Chekhov's Gun.
Daniel Bevis 🎸🎵dum 🎶🎸dum🎵🎸dum🎵🎸 another one bites the dust
They released an action figure of him in a 3-pack with vision and Kate bishop
So they are pretty much spoiling that they are going bring back everyone back to life because of the cosmic cube
Who gave them the right? Why not bring back everyone's loved ones? Huh? What if the Government had it!? THIS SHIT WRITES ITSELF! :D
Spencer has already came out an said the cosmic cube won't be a fix everything button
Nerwrax15 yeah but Natasha is coming back in solicitations to Legacy
U1TR4F0RCE, where's the proof?😑
Chris Gallardo iceman cover has natasha in it and the description mentions black widow
I really have problem with punisher's motivation joining hydra it makes no sense even with the explanation they give.
1. He gets full authority to mow down all the people he wants to Punished
2. All those who do die can be brought back, which could or could not include in his own family
What's not to get?
To me the explanation given was really superficial and dumb.
If Castle brings his family back, I think they would be disgusted by him for what he's done after they died.
Indeed, but they would be alive, and that would be worth it for alot of people, I think that would include frank too.
I guess that's something Hydra Cap would do but Frank wouldn't join him, he probably would have tried to kill Cap the moment he outed himself as the head of Hydra (like when he tried to do against Osborn during Dark Reign)
I personally don't mind Marvel's events as long as they set up the events as well as they set up Secret Wars and Secret Empire. I just want them to have lasting effects like House of M and Civil War.
Wait for the Deus Ex
I actually don't think that this is a big deal, honestly. Yes, she's the most recognizable woman superhero at the moment, but this shoudn't be a good reason to not kill her. I think it's cool that she changed her mind and didn't want Miles Morales to be a killer, and after all it was an heroic sacrifice: through her death, she made Spider-Man realize who he really is.
And in the end, Secret Empire IS a great event and everybody knows that somebody is going to die.
Nick Spencer is obviously not caring about the movies.
its suprising to think of when you look back at how much of the MCU spencer was using for his cap run.
Chitauri: Exactly as they look in the MCU
Sokovia: not that far off from age of ultron
Selvig: practically in the same role in this run as he was in the avengers
and etc
oh....a new professor thorgi video just came out? MUST WATCH NOW!
My take: Natasha never planned to make the kids killers. She didn't even want them there, but they wouldn't leave. So she uses them as extra hands to help her gather Intel and get things ready for when she goes after Steve. From the start she wanted it to be her so they don't have to.
even if ppl think the run is good. marvel does not realize how much they have soiled captain america's character. this is adjacent to having a whole series where batman goes around killing little kids parents.
I feel Spencer went too far to prove a point (which he himself not-so-subtley admits in his Spider-man run)
Remember when Pepperidge farm still released Comics?
Marvel Comics doesn't
TheSporehacker boooo
H I L A R I O U S A N D O R I G I N A L
I loved the Sam coming back moment
Jean Grey is gonna resurreX them all
Thorgi. I understand what your problem is with this book is but to me I see it in a different way. First of all yeah a lot of people like her in the movies and really only ask for her to have a solo movie but to me she still just a side character especially in the films. She's not as important as Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Or Ironman. And I honestly really don't understand how people can get upset about it death anymore when a person dies in a comic because they all just come back anyways as Hulk did in SE. I reckon she'll be back by the end of the last issue anyways and I really do like that it was the motivation for all heroes. I just didn't see any other way they could've motivated all the hero besides Sam Wilson. I feel like Sam Wilson could've been motivated differently but for the others I don't see another way. I don't believe that every death has to be handled in an epic way. I don't think it should because I think then it be kinda less interesting if every death in a story happened in an epic way. And honestly I would rather have stories without any company worrying about The general audience that doesn't read comics. I feel like that would make stories better. And don't get me wrong I'm not doing a rant. Because I respect your opinion but this is how I feel about the issue.
Exactly!
She'll of course be back eventually, but don't be surprised if she's not back in time for Legacy - she doesn't have a title coming up.
Secret Empire is Injustice initial rough draft written on wet napkins
Civil war 2 was pointless
Thomas Johnson no kidding
What's sad is there was only one side story that was actually good: Black Widow vs. Tony Stark. It turned out Natasha was the one who kidnapped Ho Yinsen, killed his family, and turned him over to the turn him over to the Ten Rings terrorist organization. When Tony found out his one time lover was responsible for hurting the man who made him a hero, he was *NOT* happy! Sadly, we never got a conclusion to this since Tony went into a coma at the end of CW2.
Where's Peter Parker aka Spider-Man in this whole entire event
Tevya Smolka Ikr
indeed its really bothering me that he's not in the actual main event itself
Tevya Smolka He's fighting Doc Ock. But the real reason is to make Miles Morales shine... which is pretty much what's going on in all the events. -_-
William Riverdale yeah I don't like that not one bit
Tevya Smolka You and me both. I want my Spider-Man back already. Curse you, Dan Sloth.
Just to let you know, there are two action figures (that i know of) of Sam Wilson Cap, one is a secret wars one (which i own) and the second comes with Kate Bishop and Vision
where do you get those awesome shirts
Secret Empire just sounds stressful to keep up with all the tie-ins and titles they created just for the event.
Don't you think she will come back with the cosmic cube. It's been a pretty good story since Captain America #1. I think we just have to ride this out. I'm sure there will be a pretty big reveal at the end.
Black Widow: You used me...for character "development!!!"
9:18 Did or didn't handle it well ? I couldn't hear it
ok thanks
She wasn't training them to do anything besides help her kill Captain America. At no point that plan included one of the Champions taking the shot. They were always support for her assassination attempt.
No it's not ultimate Bruce banners it original Bruce Banner cause ultimate square would make no sense then
manuel cabeza yeah I was about to say I'm pretty sure they faked his death all together.
wouldn't be the first time writers didn't realize characters were already being used.
With regards to the acclaimed social commentary on miles thinking he is a killer cause everybody see him as one
Look, I'm a minority myself, and honestly man, it is not an issue unless you make it an issue. I did not see it that way at all when reading this book until you brought it up.
The same almost word for word thing was said by Deadpool years ago in "The Good, The Bad, And the Ugly" arc where wade was telling preston something along the lines of
"When people keep seeing you as a screw up, you start to believe you are one"
and nobody made a commotion even though Wade Wilson is Canadian (so does this mean duggen was making a social commentary on Canadians now?)but now just cause that was said by miles, it has to be a problem? I personally would hate it if people now are going to use this scene you just mentioned as bashing against marvel as "OH THAT IS MORE SJW AND SOCIAL COMMENTARY CRAP" cause I honestly as a minority I am getting tired that everybody is making a commotion on every single little thing/line marvel is doing
Wait when did they say that it was ultimate bruce banner? I havent read #7 yet, but #6 it definitely seemed like the 616 bruce.
Bear in mind it is late as I write this. One thing I want to address is the "dream Sequences" with Herr Steve Rogers and the red skull. I feel like an explanation is needed or they need to unravel what's really going on. Is that the spirit of pre 're written pre hydra Cap? Where is he and where is that Part of the story going?
What was the commentary about (social commentary regarding miles)?
"[In LEGACY, there's going to be a return... it's not going to be the Fantastic Four, it's not going to be Wolverine, it's not going to be Pheonixl.." Heh. Three for three, Professor. :)
they did make figures of sam as captain america for secret wars.
Forcing you to buy tie ins to give the main story weight has been a Marvel thing for years and years now.
Hey professor, are you going to be a recurring voice on the weekly pull
I think Spencer stumbled when it came to that commentary with Miles, but I get where he was trying to come from. The whole idea if you disenfranchise a person or group, they're eventually going to lash out in response.
Would anyone explain to me what in god's green earth is the Secret Empire cube freebie?!
It's good to see that Nick Spenser is still willing to put women in refrigerators.
Having read the sam wilson captain america issue prior to secret empire #7 so I thought the sorrentino drawing was just to have a cool exit drawing
killing off main characters is a more realistic approach. A superhero turning out to be evil is more realistic as well, its a great twist and good move by Marvel. Im digging this series!
On a happy note, The Legend of Korra: Turf Wars is out in comic books stores. so if you want to read something better, i suggests you guys it up
I do not know about that either. I have seen some of the previews and the writing...is not good.
What is the social commentary he is talking about?
I wouldn't normally agree with not killing a characer because of their sex/ethnicity, but you give some really good points and you are totally right.
Upside Aaron there is a Sam Cap toy available on Amazon
Side note: I saw at a Toy's R Us a Sam Wilson Cap figure; it was cheap and not amazing, but it existed.
The commentary with miles is a bit on the nose but is on point. When people (both inside and outside you social/age/ethnic group) look at you a certain way (nothing but a criminal wait to happen or as apart of the problems of society), it can get under your skin and mess with your head.
P
Geek and Proud P?
JamcalX I'm glad to see a brother who is into comics. What are your thoughts on marvel diversity?
da gingerbread boi Forced, to say the least. Some things, like Sam taking over for steve a second time(first time happened in the 90's), Carol finally becoming Captain Marvel while Kamala becoming the New Ms. Marvel, and Miles being elevated to being a protégé of sorts to Parker all feel like natural progression. Jane becoming "Thor" for a time is okay, since there was a "what if" about her wielding the Mjolnir a long time ago, and unworthy thor basically saying that part of being worthy is excepting others belief in your moral character and being confident in who you are. The problem is that rather than working to do a smooth transition of passing the mantle or creating new heroes, they make drastic changes to long established characters before thinking things through in the long term, which is compounded by the cascade of events.
JamcalX Thank GOD. I found someone who I agree with this on. It makes me so mad when people just write off miles and Sam as being some cheap knockoff when they haven't even picked up a single issue of theirs. I do see where people are coming from when they say that diversity is being forced but I hate when they are so quick to call people like miles and Sam garbage and don't give any reason as to why. I for one love to see people of color represented in comics because it (use to be and IS gonna be with marvel in the near future judging by how the CEO is talking) is rare. Now let me ask you this, what do you think of the way DC is handling diversity. I for one love it.
There is an action figure of Sam Wilson Cap, but it's in a three pack so most people don't know about it
Just read Secret Empire #7 and this gets uploaded, very excited!
Why kill Black Widow? Unlike Wolverine, Hulk, or Captain America, there is absolutely no feasible way to bring her back. She doesn't have radioactive blood, or super soldier serum, or a healing factor. She's a regular person. I guess that Marvel really hates their huge plethora of amazing characters, because we've just lost another one.
OMIGOD THE RETURN OF THE MARVEL MAINSTAY IN LEGACY IS THE ULTIMATE UNIVERSE
A better reveal for the end for the issue would be instead of Sam Wilson putting on the captain America uniform Bucky sure put the Captain American uniform back on.
this could be better if Miles has a moment with Peter and talk about what gonna happen...
They actually did make a falcon cap figure it's in a marvel legends 2 pack I believe
I smell retcon via time travel or cosmic cube incoming
Also I think thorgi is making widow's death a bigger deal than it actually is
There is a Captain America-Wilson figure. Its in a bundle back at Toys R Us with the Vision and Hawkeye-Kate Bishop. :)
also heros have died and came back in comics for years. People act like this is a new thing. You kill Blackwidow off for shock value to draw people into the story. It works then you go with it.
I say we just let them tell their story and see where it goes before we get all knee-jerk about it. At this point with social media and the like and people being so informed with what the direction for things are nowadays, every content creator is damned if they do, damned if they don't (referring to Marvel as a content creator). Who should they have killed off then? And if no one then people would be complaining that there are no stakes and they are not taking any chances! It's almost as if Marvel can't win because the fans expect them to make their stories not too cold, not too hot, but not warm! Just ride it out and let them tell their freaking story, jeez!
I don't think its tone deaf to kill her off... If they are constantly writing what the fans want them to write then there are no surprises left... Period. Fans of the film largely don't read the comics and only react to the headlines anyway; movie fans in most cases aren't comic fans or active comic readers like us few here. The news of Black Widow being dead in the comics won't ruin most movie Marvel fans day, with barely an aside reaction. Last I checked, her comics were pulling under 20k and was out of the top 100 (her best numbers were in 2014). Not saying that she is a bad character, just that if she is really as important as you say, the sales numbers haven't reflected that, despite her recent run being pretty good.
And sure, she may come back within a year... Like that's a bad thing or unprecedented... It happens all the time and we are fine with it when things return back to the status quo, despite our best bitching and complaining about it. Or are you still upset for the past decades worth of resurrections of characters like Bucky, Elektra, Aunt May, Spider-man, Norman Osborn, Gwen Stacy (yeah, clone, but it still counts) Storm, Jean Grey, Professor X, Jean Grey, Professor X, Jean Grey, Professor X, Cyclops, Colossus, Tony Stark (when he was made Kang's bitch in the 90's) Jean Grey, etc, came back time and time again! we always say we hate the fact that we know that they will come back, but when they do, we take them back with open arms! Lets stop being hypocritical drama queens about this and accept the fact that we actually like our heroes alive and well, so long as they are tortured because of it!
And of course we know that Sam will become The Falcon later on again... But why don't we see how they get him there instead of saying that it sucks the weight out of the story by knowing that fact (keep in mind, most comic readers actually don't follow industry news in that way. You are a little too close to the subject to make a fair commentary on it, I think). As an older comic book reader who has been reading for about four decades, and who still reads (but man, my backlog keeps growing despite my best efforts to keep pace), that we as current readers are a little spoiled because we know too well how the sausage is made and are, in my opinion, too quick to give our input on how to improve the recipe. Maybe its my age, but I'd rather just see where it all ends before I start making indictments on how they are doing/did it all wrong...
Long story short, I think you are over-evaluating the value of (comic book) Black Widow and her importance, especially with so many other great female characters that deservedly can use the spotlight treatment from Marvel. She served her purpose as a catalyst/motivational pawn for this story and I am personally fine with her going out this way as it is fitting of her character. She's had her history and it made sense for her to be the one; after all, she is a tumultuous character that is based on the notion of making poor choices and then attempting to redeem those bad choices. Narratively, it makes sense that she be the one to fall, just it made sense for Hawkeye to be the fall guy for Civil War 2. I don't think that these two characters choices are coincidental.
I don't know... Maybe I analyze these stories differently...
Love your off-the-cuffs Thorgi, but I think you are wrong on this one and are reacting too much to the act rather than the reason why; the reason why it served the story, why it had to be this character and why it made sense. I don't see this as any type of colossal screw up; I see it as just fun comic book writing that aimed to have an effectual character moment. Perhaps I am wrong and you are right, and they failed; but I just don't see it that way despite my best efforts of considering your arguments. Fix your knee because it is most definitely jerking! j/k
Good video regardless of my opinion!
Can't grasp it?
FIRMLY GRASP IT!!!!
They didn't make a Sam Wilson Captain America figure. It was in a marvel legends three pack with Kate Bishop Hawkeye and a modern version
So it seems Marvel STILL hasn't learned the lessons of Avengers Arena/Undercover. That's what I take from all this.
JESUS MAN! I know she's coming back and all but DAYUM way to leave issue #7 on a high note!
SO what's the tally for the MCU Avengers?
Stark - coma/AI going rampant and replaced by a juvenile criminal
Banner - dead/ replaced
Thor - unworthy/ replaced by Jane Foster (who is no longer in the movies)
Rodgers - Hail Hydra
Clint - killed Bruce Banner and replaced by a teenager
and now Natasha - killed; pending replacement
Good job Marvel; you've effectively alienated anyone that was on board with the Phase One MCU. Can't wait to see how you screw up your Rebirth knockoff...
They took out Stark and swapped Rogers heel killing Black Widow is a pittance in comparison.
BW realized that SHE would have to be the one to assassinate Cap because the kids couldn't handle it, for starters and secondly she thought Hydra had killed the Underground and was angry.
There are no golden geese. Black Widow's book wasn't a big seller she can die.
Also she died to keep blood off Miles' hands. Her death was heroic.
Most of my complaints comes down to this basically being a huge marketing fail, they could have easily tapped into people's love of cap by saying "Yeah something is wrong, read to find out what's up." and made like a hashtag for it and try to get people guessing.
From what I can tell it's not the storyline it's the outside execution.
Yet another example of the "Women in Refrigerators".
I've been scrolling through these comments and I haven't seen anyone upset about Black widow's death.
Nick Spencer's real strength is he's a great character writer. Give him any 3 characters and he'll give each one their own distinct personality and quirks. That's his strength and why _Superior Foes of Spider-Man_ was such a success. Epic political dramas aren't among his strengths and that's what he's trying to do here. Plus the fans are getting event fatigue and that doesn't help.
The Black Widow used an LMD (that the reason the Marvel Writers will say That's how the Black Widow came back!
I feel like marvel's mentality is any publicity is good publicity, and it's definitely not...
Thorgi: it's not gonna be the fantastic four. Hm maybe
Not gonna be wolverine. About that
Not gonna be the Phoenix
About that again
Man looking back at this it's funny how much of what thorgi said did actually come back and is coming back
There is an action figure of Sam Wilson cap at toys r us
7:43 you just know the Password is "Password"
About black widow I think it might be over selling it on how big her character really is. I mean, as of late I just havnt seen her be part of anything real monumental in any marvel stories and even her own series I just, havnt heard anything on that whether good or bad(I mean, were the sales figures that great for her) but yeah it is recognized that she is pretty tight with the superhuman community so of course their should be weight to her death from both marvel and the people reading it cause that is what death is suppost to instill.
I mean, at least the way I read it, the heroes were all already defeated considering their only saving graces were Tony and Black Widows plan to take action and now the fact that they both got stomped by hydra on top of black widows death(Plus, AI Tony also died as well), yeah, I mean, the heroes had a lot to feel defeated about other than just widows death
I didn't even finish the video dude. I'm super pissed at the "social commentary". I'm black, I'm a miles fan. People thinking I'm a criminal doesn't make me wanna steal a fucking car Nick Spenser.
You just explanined why I'm still mad about Cyclops' death and the entire death of X and Inhumans vs X-MEN comics. I've skipped entire event. I'm voting with my money for now on.
Holy shit, Aaron predicted the ending to spider men 2
To qoute MST300 "they just didn't care"
I'm surprised there hasn't been more outrage over this yet. Nothing on comic news sites and most of my friends didn't know until I told them. I guess just that few people are still reading Secret Empire or care?
Man, I hope Ultimate Cassandra Lang comes back!!!
There is a Marvel Legends for Sam Wilson as Captain America ... I own it and love it!
Y'all remember 5K?
I am loving secret Empire
What a waste. I love Natasha and I was shocked when it was revealed that she was the one who killed Ho Yinsin's family and turned him over to the Ten Rings. It's been so long since a comic actually managed to shock me but that revelation did it. Yet nothing came out of it and her relationship with Tony since he ended up in a coma at the end of _Civil War 2_. What a waste...
Sounds like Marvel put a blindfold on and is taking a sledgehammer to the characters that are the pillars of their company. When is this world going to be retconned?
So mery jo. mils one punch cap is not stopid
is she dead dead or like winter soldier in secret empire dead.
But you didn't bat an eye when war machine was killed or bucky or jack flag in this event. the latter two were killed in the leading to secret empire. So i don't see the big deal since all gonna be erased by the power of deus ex cosmic cube.
if you did the i will apologize but after i see the link!
Theres totally a sam wilson captain america figure
That about Sam Wilson return as Falcon who was revealed in new comics is actually is the set after Secret Empire event end to leave as Captain America, also Jane Foster is going die in Mighty Thor The death of Thor.
Marvel's social commentary, in any of the ***recent*** books I've read, is simply tone-deaf.
Not just tone-deaf to the straight white guys whom make up the majority of their core and hardcore audiences (EX: Professor Thorgi). But tone deaf to the people they're trying (and oft failing) to represent.
See Riri Williams. She's good at everything, apparently, and everyone loves her, apparently, and she rarely makes mistakes, apparently, and is one of the most intelligent people ever, apparently, and even notoriously selective SHIELD wants her, apparently, etc; not even the most shallow, most attention-seeking of the Millenial generation likes a character like that. And let's just pretend she's not a horrible, horrible role model for young girls for a second and ask, ***why not Rhodey?*** You know, the minority character who basically deserves the Iron Man title? You know, the fan fave? You know, the guy who's died multiple times in the past couple years? What about the character most of my black comics friends love? What about the character most of my military-family friends love? What about the only character that made my old, withered, 20-aged self get into and start reading the early Iron Man comics? What about James Rhodes, someone who has literally been Iron Man in the past and more than once? If you want positive diversity in your comic books, which I'd love to see more of, look no further than a literal fan-favorite character everyone's been begging for more of for years and years and years!
I'm glad they want more diverse characters. But these characters also need to be well-written with perceivable, consistent flaws; I want more of Miles' hot, angry streak, I want the Ava Ayala version of White Tiger to turn back into the elitist b**** I fell in love with waaaaay back during Avengers Academy, I want Squirrel Girl to turn back into an example of body positivity for short, relatively flat-chested women and do away with the freakish looks she's got going on right now, I want Female Thor to stop talking about feminism at the most random and pointless moments and start talking about what's actually happening in the actual comic at that actual moment in actual time (because at first she was BADASS!), I want She-Hulk to turn back into the confident, intelligent, independent woman that got so many young women into comics in the first place, I want heroes to regularly and actively fight villains (and not spend several issues straight talking about cooking shows on RUclips or dense politics for imaginary countries), I want the X-men to become a thinly veiled social commentary again (and yes, even if it's 100% feminazi level or Alt-Right, White Nationalist level politics, either is fine by me so long as it regains the politics, like seriously the Xmen are an inherently political beast), I want the teenaged characters to start acting like the actual teenage generation (Gen X) and stop acting like entitled, uninformed stereotype-caricatures of Millenials, I want to stop seeing selfies on covers altogether because that's stupid no one my age likes selfies and they're just turning "the young folks" away every time they try it, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
And can we just talk about how every time I get into a MARVEL comic it's either canceled outright or stuck in crossover hell? I got into Guardians JUST before the movie was announced, then Angela showed up being cool and fun, and then BAM! CROSSOVER! BAM! CROSSOVER 2! BAM! CROSSOVER 2.59783! BAM! TIE IN TO THAT WEIRD STORY WITH THE EYEBALLS YOU DON'T READ! BAM! TIE IN WITH STAR LORD'S STANDALONE FOR SOME REASON! And then I gave up.
Marvel, get your act together. Please... I can't be a fan forever.
I hate they killed (spoiler). That was my favorite part of the story but it's okay as long as it has meaning and it looks like it does.
So Hawkeye killed Bruce Banner FOR NO FREAKING REASON!? AND THAT VISION WILL STILL HAPPEN!? DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT!
People have to be honest as well: while Modern Hydra aren't nazis, its true that they were originally meant to be 'comic book safe' nazis of a sort.
Also, I disagree with the people who say they are doing Cap wrong with this change. First, from all I have seen, it seems to be one of the few books that are actually selling well at Marvel. Second, you KNOW this change is temporary, and before too long they will fix everything (I'm thinking with a Cosmic Cube, which will 'fix' everything, including all the dead characters, although that would be too cliche).
Finally, as I have said elsewhere, I wish they had the guts to do this (Evil Cap) in "Secret Invasion", although I could see why not after the reaction to 'Spider Clone".
I have a better idea, instead of killing Black Widow how about kill Miles father or his uncle? Those two are more closer to Miles then Black Widow and both have a better reason to stop Miles from killing Hydra Cap then Black Widow. I don't know what happen to his uncle in the 616, so have him try to redeem himself by getting in the way of the fight to save his nephew from making a bad choice.
- Being any kind of demographic doesn't make you invulnerable from the tragedies that happen in comics. Quesada has been a big proponent of this since Marvel made White Tiger and people were complaining about her going through intense shit in Bendis' DD. I don't want T'Challa to turn into someone like god tier Batman that has no problems just because we look the same.
- Also that wasn't Ultimate Bruce Banner.
- Ewing doing Ultimate Universe stuff in one of his books in no way means that it's a massive "CHANGE THE MARVEL UNIVERSE FOREVER" event. I don't even know where you got that idea.
- Other than you I haven't seen the level of anger you've described of Natasha's crippling/possible death. I'm not trying to lessen your anger, just saying that you really overthought and overestimated this.
- You also overestimate that general audiences even know that this is going on. You say that they love Black Widow, and that's true. But that's movie Black Widow they love. They don't read comics and it's weird that you want Marvel to take them into account with a story that Spencer's been planning for years that relies on heavy continuity that is specifically for comic readers. You can't complain when Marvel tries to appeal to general audiences and when they don't. There's a middle ground that they've been doing for a while now since the MCU started.
- Also if you read this I think you have a great channel.
- Also there are some Sam Cap figures at Toys R Us and they're pretty great looking.
I dont get most of this complaints. The fact that a big name hero died instead of some C-lister is good, it makes people care.
Also considering how grim the situation is for the heroes it fits that she died in such a anticlimactic way instead of in some blaze of glory, that's how wars are, If everyone dies sacrificing themselves in an epic manner it will lose impact fast. Most deaths shouldn't be epic and the climax of a character's swan song, they are sad sudden and prove that anyone can go down at any time. Every character having their perfect, heroic, heart warming yet tragic send off with a bow on top is unrealistic even for comicbooks.
This event hasn't been great but this has been the best issues.
They've given the whole Event away. Which was the worst possible thing you can do in a story.
Screw Secret Empire, and *Screw Marvel*
Yaah. Andrea Sorrentino has some good looking art. Started following him as an artist since Green Arrow. But they say he traces alot though. Still looks good though. . .