I saw her change from cheering for Judy to trying to kill her as a way to make Judy a martyr for her agenda and that’s why she wanted Judy to be the face of the ZPD. She was always driven by power and if she assisted Judy with solving the missing carnivore cases, made her the face of the ZPD, and then publicized her death at the hands of a carnivore she trusted; Bellwether would have a name and face that she could use to justify and strengthen her agenda, and the perfect scapegoat in Nick.
bell was a check mark not a character, this is why twist villains started to go down in quality. the twist villains were starting to be use as a gimmick and not as a characters they were.
Yeah, they kept downplaying her so she was present, but not present enough to the point where she'd be on the radar. Of course, that's just how some twist villains are.
I feel like a "downplayed" character like Bellweather _could_ work as a twist villain, but the writing has to be on top of it. With limited appearance, you really would need to make the most out of any clues. Being too subtle while also downplaying your antagonist like that is just going to create an "out of nowhere" experience like what we got.
So I think Bellwether was willing to let Judy die because Judy dying, at the hand of a predator everyone had seen her with, it would show not even the hardest working of "little guys" were safe.
If she still felt Judy was a threat, she could have secretly sent assassins after her anytime to cover her tracks. But then we wouldn't have a movie I suppose. But still...
@@Disneyfan82 The point wasn't just to get rid of Judy, it was to spread fear when the famous bunny cop is killed off my a deranged predator, right at the same time there was tension between the two groups.
Bellweather being conflicted or at least expressing remorse for sending Judy to her death would have given her some depth : it would have show that she did appreciate Judy but was willing to get rid of any obstacle on her way.
@@lasercraft32 Yeah it's not hard at all to understand, "Hero Cop muled to death by her Fox Friend" is a first page title that writes itself. Bellwether doesn't actually care about small prey at all, she's just using the speciesm to stay in power. If anything she's the most realistic disney villain ever, governmets all over the world are riddled with Bellwheters.
A quick fix writters could have made is having Bellweather either murmur or seem spiteful whenever she is mistreated. Could have been obvious but at the same time, you would have seen it as justified.
They do drop a blink-and-you-miss-it hint during Judy's first day, when she meets Nick. The ram that shouts at Nick for crossing the street in front of him, the entire reason Judy notices Nick, is Bellwether's henchman, Doug. You see him again later in the lab scene, as the one refining the nighthowler serum. Fun fact: the three rams are a reference to Breaking Bad, with the names Doug, Jesse, and Woolter, with the nighthowler lab being a reference to the chem lab in the show.
@CraftyMaelyss and, of course, Duke drops the name when Nick and Judy are interrogating him with the help of Mr. Big by answering "it's a ram named Doug, but he's the opposite of friendly. He's unfriendly."
@CraftyMaelyss and, of course, Duke drops the name when Nick and Judy are interrogating him with the help of Mr. Big by answering "it's a ram named Doug, but he's the opposite of friendly. He's unfriendly."
I saw Bellwether as the villain a mile away - when she logged Judy into the computer system, I thought, "She's being a little too helpful. She's up to something."
My take on that was "bit weird, but the over eager weirdo is a nice spin for an assistant", she didn't clock as a villain, she clocked as kinda flat support character.
Zootopia was the one movie where having a more symbolic villain would’ve worked. You can’t just take a minor character and give her an evil laugh and say “SEE! She was behind everything!!! Bet you didn’t see that one coming!!!”. Prejudice isn’t something you can just give a face and defeat in one fell swoop. It’s a disease that always finds a way to survive no matter how much he attempt to stop it.
Bellwether being a terrible twist villain is extra frustrating because she's such a well written villain. All they had to do was give her a little bit of extra screen time with her doing a bunch of mayoral assistant stuff. You can hide plenty of setup in a handful of interractions with established side characters. Have her interract with Nick alone, where her being "weirdly keen" on his thieves' cant gives the audience a clue.
If I remember right, several bits of the story where retcon for being too dark. And that the movie itself was supposed to be a little different than the movie we got. Which is how it ended up trying to touch on a lot of different subjects but failing on most of them. From the manufactured crack cocaine epidemic, to the themes of racism that were poorly implemented.
It was more than a retcon or a "little" different. The whole movie needed to be rewritten! But you're correct. Originally it was supposed to be Nick who was the main character and it involved tame collars that shocked predators when they got upset. It was a bit too dark and probably hit too close to real world things so they needed to revise it.
This is one of the few times when I think a twist villain was warranted since this was a mystery film. But I'd have loved to see more of Bellweather's past to explain her motivation beyond underappreciation. Rare time when the heroes are more interesting than the villain.
Yeah, I get that Even Scooby Doo at least has their villains around more Unless in the few cases where it’s actually multiple villains who more often than not have similar ideas. Or it just straight up turns out that oh yeah, the legend and magic is true.
@Flame-rp6yq My own headcanon is something like this: Bellweather had a traumatic experience(s) like Judy, and vows to change Zootopia, but she has a twinge of bitterness and vengence to it. Given the fact that the actual MAYOR is a lion and predators actively try to erase prejudice about them, maybe a lot of predator crime is underreported by the police or the news, and Bellweather's abuse by predators is overlooked as a result. Enraged by what she sees as predators bullying their way into power, she develops the belief that "fear always works" and that all she needs to do is find a situation where suspicion against predators is validated and forever damages Zootopia's views on them. Maybe she'd even turn on larger prey, feeling as though they were never threatened or abused by predators due to their size/build.
Yeah, if anyone deserves their own origin story and tragic villain mark, it's Bellwether. Not Maleficent, Jafar, Cruella, or even Scar. But Bellwether, to me is like the Baby Doll of Zootopia, broken and shattered by society that is unkind and cruel to the "little guys" and more.
Agreed. I really hope we look into Bellwether’s backstory in the sequel because we really need to know what made her do what she did because leaving her out just like that would be a terrible waste to her beautiful appearance. Not to mention there are so many unanswered questions about the night howler scandal which would take more than one single mastermind to handle it all out.
@@zuhamalik1662If you don't like someone purely based off their skin color and nothing else that's racist. It don't matter what your own skin looks like.
Bellwheater should have been used better and seen more on screen. In my opinion I feel like Bellwether and Judy should’ve have been friends ever since Judy defended the group of sheep and Bellwether could have been one of them. Both of them would have supported each other and stood together as “little guys” But would soon go to different paths. Growing up, Bellwether would be considered a middle child of her two other siblings (which I’m just gonna say are the other two sheep with her at the fair.) and would never get attention from their parents while the oldest and youngest got more attention. What would make it worse for her is she got bullied constantly for being small and eventually wanted to study to become something bigger, an assistant mayor. Bellwether would be excited to do this job, only to realize the mayor is a predator and treated just as badly as all the other predators in her childhood. The only one that helped her was Judy, and appreciated her for that but secretly hated her for trying to work with predators at the police force, but would try to support her so she wouldn’t lose her only friend she ever had. Eventually Bellwether would start a plan to work against the predators in secret while Judy worked along with them. Bellwether could’ve also used this opportunity as assistant mayor to take over the city and use her friend to defend and help with her takeover. Throughout the story as Judy went through the case Bellwether could’ve used this as an advantage to her plan. Since Bellwether is assistant mayor and mayor later in the movie she could use cameras all over the city and can research possible suspects and certain areas to throw Judy off guard. Later in the movie, Nick could’ve suspected Bellwether of what she’s doing and told Judy about it, and Judy would soon have to chose to believe a prey or predator. In the end Judy would believe Bellwether and Nick got upset and left. Judy would then feel guilty and try to find Nick and Judy would soon find out Bellwether was the bad guy all along and had no choice but to fight her friend. Bellwether soon finds out about Judy knowing her plan and would soon betray Judy and try to kill her and Nick before they told the police anything. Bellwether hesitated to do this at first but after seeing Judy was going to believe and work with the predators no matter what happened, she decided to not look back. After she gets arrested, Judy tried to talk to her again but Bellwether ignored her entirely and forever hates Judy for befriending predators despite all she’s gone through and Judy has seen. And that’s I would do to make her story better in my opinion. (If anyone sees this comment, comment down what you think would be better.)❤
@@madycartoonlover3383 Indeed, between the final movie, the rough draft involving "tame" collars, and your version, we have three viable versions of the story.
Honestly I think a cooler concept is that she was literally a wolf in sheep's clothes. Basically she would be a wolf that was small for her species and could have been alpha but was too small to lead her clan. So to get power she would weasel her way into it by getting rid of larger predators to have less competition.
I personally thought that her as a villain was to show that the upper class and elites don’t have your back. As you mentioned they have a shady background, prop up the underdog, and whenever they get the opportunity throw the underdog under the bus for more power. They could have written her better but I liked the message I got from her character
Due to the message of the film, Bellwether is one of those twist villains I kind of don’t mind. She wanted power, tried to get it through legal means, and then when she couldn’t she turned to fearmongering. “Well I’M not a predator” is enough of a justification and has real-life parallels.
Man Don't confuse Lamb with sheep its a same animal. Lambs Are baby sheep. As a person who onw's farm this is a bit misleading. Please correct that. 3:30
Indeed; his two examples confused me because A. There are no evolved birds or reptiles in Zootopia, so no pigeon characters, and B. Those young sheep technically *are* lambs. Maybe other farm animals like goat kids or calves, or just other mediums rodents.
can you confirm sheep are Not as small as a rabbit? it just really bugs me that bellweather is as small as judy, when as far as ive seen, sheep can get BIG
There was ONE other hint towards Bellweather... All the ones responsible for making the night howler pellets were sheep (its not a very good hint, nobody noticed it myself included... But still).
17:32 Bellweather demonstrated patience IN HINDSIGHT when one considers Nick, who was a predatory animal (fox) whom she supposedly hates stroked her wool while she looked up information for Him and Judy in the computer scene. If her anti-predator agenda was meant to be taken seriously, She can't have liked Nick in particular petting her. Bellweather's personal security AND her henchmen making the aggression serum in the subway are ALL big strong Sheep. Bellweather was likely meant to be more a "Sheep supremacist" rather than a "prey supremacist". What I think though is that Disney must have not caught that this villain could be seen as a "racial supremacist" until later in production and they thought Bellweather was "promoting racism". Thus her motives were watered down GREATLY via Disney flushing them and telling themselves not elaborating on Bellweather's motives was okay because she would be "less suspect". THAT's why her villainy comes off as such an afterthought. Bellweather was "Hans 2.0" by accident!
While Bellwether isn't the worst twist villain (the prince from Frozen comes to mind) she isn't exactly the best. The hints where there don't get me wrong but she had three to eight minutes of screen time which made her twist villainy come out of no where. For example during the third act after Judy leaves Zootopia they should have placed a scene where Bellwether is supporting the segregation of Prey and Predator. That way the seed of her being the final villain and when Bellwether corners Judy and Nick she should have come off more hesitant to kill Judy.
Hans is a lot easier to spin as a bold faced liar, he knows how to act the part of a perfect person to the hopeless romantic that is Anna, then Bellwether is to spin as any kind of mastermind
Bellweather wanted Judy dead because it would be at the hand of a predator. Judy was a threat to Bellweather. She was smart, hard-working, and on a pursuit of the truth. All the things people in power don’t want. It didn’t help that Judy was famous after exposing the predators kept in the facility and becoming the first bunny cop. Bellweather knew Judy would keep trying to solve it, so she had to get rid of her (well, she wanted to get rid of the evidence Judy found, but Judy refused and ran away, so better to just kill Judy). If Judy was just randomly found dead, that would be very suspicious. But if a predator (which were already established to be potentially dangerous by, you guessed it, Bellweather’s propaganda) were to kill her, that was easy to explain. She could even make a parade out of it, get people mourning an innocent and hard-working prey animal. When Judy ran away, Bellweather knew she was found out, and had to get rid of Judy. It felt sloppy and rushed because, in the context of the story, it *was*. She expected Judy to fully trust her and hand over the briefcase. She had to think quickly, and the quickest option was to just kill her and use Nick as a scapegoat (haha get it? ScapeGOAT?) I personally like Bellweather, considering it *is* a kid’s film.
if someone spent 5 minutes fleshing out her character in a beginning scene it would of worked. you need to show the audience how her hatred of predators was taught. you can see that judy’s parents have a fear of predators but show that bellwethers parents hated them and taught her that predators are worthless and that they need to hold the power and then maybe you can do the scene in the beginning with the fox and the sheep and have one of the sheep be bellwether and afterwords she says “ i hate predators” and judy tells her it’s not predators it’s just him he’s a jerk then walk off together but as they walk in she looks back with conviction and you can see her during the play( i think it was a play) in the crowd not cheering subtle hints like that just spend 5 minutes showing how her hatred was taught would’ve made her so compelling if they wanted to do a villain who just wanted power the mouse was the best option
see, the sign of a good twist villain is that they play 2 sides until the reveal. assistant mayor was clearly a character of hers, and you missed the entire point of her being the villain
Jack Horner from Puss In Boots: The Last Wish is a great villain because of how he spits in the face of the sympathetic villain trope. His backstory is played for comedy and still shows why he hates fairytale creatures.
Thinking about it, there wasn’t an explicitly stated reason. Sure you can read between the lines but if she had a motive then without a doubt I believe the villainy would have been better
Her problem was that predators…existed? And she didn't want them to? I guess there were some indications that prey were a minority in positions of power, but there didn't seem to be explicit discrimination or anything like that.
@LudicrosityIndustries She's a caricature of your average fearmongering politician, is the problems they usually ride at the election ever as big as they make it up to be? The movies makes it as obvious as possible, by saying that predators haven't eaten prey for millenia while showing prey being afraid of predators in the very next scene.
@LudicrosityIndustries I think she said in her final speech that prey make up the majority of the population. having them united under the belief of predators being dangerous will keep bellwether in charge as she promises to keep the prey safe. its basically what Hitler did when/before he became in charge of Germany. he made the German people hate/ fear Jewish people, blaming them for the loss of the first world war as well as several other things. he united the German people under fear and hatred and it kept him in charge.
@LudicrosityIndustries I think she said in her final speech that prey make up the majority of the population. having them united under the belief of predators being dangerous will keep bellwether in charge as she promises to keep the prey safe. its basically what Hitler did when/before he became in charge of Germany. he made the German people hate/ fear Jewish people, blaming them for the loss of the first world war as well as several other things. he united the German people under fear and hatred and it kept him in charge.
I think a great way to fix her, without even changing the rest of the story, would be to associate her with the nighthowler flowers. Putting them on her desk or something would make the twist so much clearer!
@chasehedges6775 I do love Tangled, but I love Wreck it Ralph more, so I lean a bit more on his end. But yes, Gothel is the last great traditional villain Disney made for sure
Yeah, typically when it comes to villains, I believe only twist villains should get the "why" as to them being evil, because throughout the movie, we dont fully see why they are, however, I dont think the same should happen with villains that, from the start, we know are villains. Like Scar for example, everyone knew he was evil from the start and as the movie proceeds, it's easy to see that he did what he did because of greed and wanting to be king. Hell, his whole "life isnt fair, is it?" speech to the mouse an then later what he says to Zazu and Mufasa "I was first in line, then the little hairball was born" meaning he was bitter about the fact that he should have been the next king but then simba was born meaning he'd die before getting the chance to be king unless he did something about it. We did not need Mufasa, a movie made to make Scar out to be a sympathetic villain, and from what I heard from my sister, who saw it yesterday with her kids, it completely changes who Kovu and the Outsiders are. Instead of them being lions that were in Mufasa's pride who sided with Scar's way of ruling and were thus banished from the pride lands by Simba, apparently they are now the pride of lions that scar was born into or were the bad guys in the movie, I forget, but like, no, thats dumb. I actually liked the RA (Realistic Animation) Lion King, but i hate that the story is changed
A cool twist could've been that Bellwether and Lionheart were actually in cahoots. Imagine all her "us little ones" comments were a lie to get Judy to trust her more and Lionheart's mistreatment of her was all an act to stir up a divide? Imagine Bell was still actually the mastermind, but Lionheart was in on it WITH her. What would the motivation be though? Power? Greed? I can't remember enough of the movie to think of one. Still, imagine a wolf in sheep's clothing, and a loyal lion lackey/assistant/partner/?
Gonna give my point that they kinda gave away she had something to do with it when we clearly saw her in a position of power immediately as the mayor was delt with
I mean, that didn’t really mean anything. She was the assistant mayor. The mayor was removed. Assistant mayor then takes over. Exact same thing that if the president dies vice president takes over.
@pcdeltalink036 granted, just that when I saw how drastic the shift in her station was, from being basically a secretary to head honcho it was a very clear upgrade.
@ Though now that you bring it up one thing that is a bit strange is we don't know what her original plan for Lionheart would have been. He only got caught because of Judy but that was just a coincidence/plot point. What was her plan to oust the mayor otherwise? Hit him with the serum at some point I guess?
No, Hans is 100% a sociopath, those people are r/confidentlyincorrect, although he could _also_ be a psychopath, that's irrelevant. Bellwether is also a sociopath... do you people _really_ need villains to literally twirl their mustaches on screen and drown orphans and widows before you recognize their behavior? It seems like every time someone is genuinely fooled (but watching through a second time we can definitely see why she does what she does) it breaks their brain, and they go... "but the character wuz smiling... so they're a good guy, right?" or something. Oh no... it gets worse somehow... "but her face was so round?" Bowser has the roundest face in... well it's round anyhow. 'Course he's got horns and fangs... Dedede is round. Even his beak is round. Seriously, if you're asking why Bellwether set Judy up as the face of the ZPD, her positive reputation as dedicated and optimistic, yet an officer who gets things done, makes her the perfect pawn to gain the trust of the prey population. And after uniting the prey under Judy, think Toon, think; why would Bellwether want to create a martyr for her cause? What could she _possibly_ gain by manufacturing a species riot that she literally just told -Judy- the audience that she was gonna do?
It is less about her believability as a villain and more about how the movie handles revealing that she is one that is the problem here. Yes, there is something to be said about evil hiding in plain sight (or wolves in sheep's clothing, as is the pun here), but, generally speaking, a villain is more engaging when we have more time to see them be evil/suspicious. It is about suspense and anticipation, rather than shock/surprise. Comparing just King Candy and Bellwether, we get to see multiple scenes where King Candy is malevolent and manipulative prior to the Turbo reveal, and so the audience is more engaged in his character throughout the movie as we try to puzzle out his motivation and wonder if he is partially justified in his extreme actions or not. Bellwether, on the over hand, has a few scenes where she is supportive of Judy, perhaps overly so, and...yeah that's about it prior to her reveal. Nice helpful side character. "Oh, but that helps her fly under the radar!" Okay, but in practice that just means nobody really cares about her character, which isn't great for such an important piece of a story. And the reveal is somewhat surprising, but that's about it - there's very little time left to engage with her character before she is swiftly defeated and the story moves on, making her look rather pathetic in the end. To be fair, given the type of story this is, her swift defeat isn't surprising...but the limited time we get to see her be villainous still is. Why? Well, half the fun of the detective genre is seeing if you can guess whodunnit before the detectives can...but Zootopia is so enamored with its twist and busy with other things that Bellwether's character seems like an afterthought. Most detective shows at least tip their hand a little by making the culprit the one with the most obvious bias and/or motive to do the crime. And to be fair, Bellwether might be that, if only she seemed more angry about her mistreatment by the mayor, or a bit more distrustful of Nick...just, give us something. Anything besides "she is the only character left who it logically could be, because we haven't met anyone else with enough power and it'd be weird to introduce a new character this late into the story." If I have to analyze a character's relative screen time to make a proper guess at the story's villain, then the writers didn't craft a very good Sherlock Holmes-style culprit. This is what people mean when they say she is a purely functional, ticks the check boxes kind of villain - there isn't anyone left who it could be, really, and we know there is one, so even if it only sort of makes sense personality-wise...there ya go. So, if she isn't very fun as a detective story culprit OR as a typical Disney villain, then why should we care, again? That's why most people don't care for her as a villain. Anyways, that's my take. Gonna quit rambling now. Fwiw, I do see some foreshadowing for her, but it's really not enough to build her up to be a grand villain...there's only enough for a rewatch bonus. Subtlety isn't always a good thing.
I'm just noticing she also has a flower pin on her jacket in the computer scene, is it supposed to be a night howler flower or allude to one? Seems like they added a lot of hints but they were all too small.
Bellwether would have been more interesting if she had kept the same demeanor even as she explained how she was planning a race war and was going to kill Judy. Not only would it still feel like the same character, but the contrast could be unnerving.
A scene I think that could’ve added more to Bellweather’s character would be this: Whenever Lionheart gets caught, obviously Bellweather is called to the scene, and Lionheart takes some of his anger out on Bellweather or says “oh you wouldn’t know” or something when she asks why he would do such a thing. Then, a scene before the press conference where Judy talks about the case, we see Judy and Bellweather in the bathroom together getting ready. Judy asks why Bellweather lets Lionheart treat her like that, and Bellweather talks about how predators/bigger animals have always pushed her aside or tried to rile her up since she was a child to which then she would say “I give myself power by not letting them see it bothers Me” or something similar like that. Then after she would say some sort of microaggression/generalization of predators but it’s subtle and Judy barely even notices/doesn’t say anything about this. But she would internalize it, which is why she brings up “it may have something to do with their biology” because Bellweather said something similar. I hope that all makes sense
Ohhh i like this idea, I always feel like it's very abrupt to go from Lionheart's arrest to the press conference. I think a small scene like this could have worked well.
I don’t think bellwether was just hateful toward predators, but large animals as a whole. At the police station, she both outranked and didn’t respect the chief. I think that because she leveraged her position to challenge him, as Bogo is the police chief it’s his call to fire officers not hers. If anyone should have the ability to veto that it’s the mayor and whatever council the city has.
@ Exactly. She feels looked down on because she literally is, I feel like she had some kind of kinship with Judy right from the start because she was a small mammal but realized she wasn’t an ally when she worked with Nick to investigate the feral predators
@@Ryan2K900 Yeah, and Bellwether explains she was only hired because "Lionheart wanted the Sheep Vote" which I think is further explanation why she did what she did. Much in the way Judy was a Diversity Hire, so was Bellwether, and she faces constant abuse and marginalisation from her boss. Just as Judy does.
Ignoring the uncomfortable racial aspects of zootopia (seriously the prey animals absolutely have a reason to be afraid of predators), to me, if Disney truly wanted to actually delve into bigotry, then they had to look to the something like the wire or blacksad the comic. To me the drug subplot dosnt work because it simplifies the actual drug trade our country faces, and it somewhat implies that it’s a result of one person’s evil intentions rather than a event that occurred due to specific circumstances and opportunities. So what does something like blacksad and the wire do? Simple, they highlight that yes there are major criminals but it’s the SYSTEM that not only brings in these morally deviant people but it enables such behavior. Blacksad and the wire certainly have their flat out racists but this bigotry operating in the city institutions is less open, making it difficult for the heroes to win. In fact there’s usually a misfortune that taints the heroes’ win. And nothing ever changes permanently. So how could bellwether have worked? Simple, she works alongside Judy and Nick in investigating the movie’s crime. She grows close to Judy while also subtly gaslighting Nick, showing brief signs of hostility that seems passive; blink or or you miss. Judy not only didn’t catch on, but shows her agreement. Bellweather is competent at allowing Judy and Nick to bypass the police’s restrictions and lack of interest, so Nick pushes any doubts down. This feeling of micro aggression piles up and comes out when Nick lashes at Judy for her own bigotry. Any way, movie proceeds as normal, but this time rather than bellwether being responsible for the spread of the drug, it’s actually the mob boss we met earlier. Why else could a drug spread within a city WITHOUT the approval of the godfather mob boss?? And crime bosses in real life do not have code of honor-see the wire and the sopranos. So Judy and Nick arrest the mob boss. The mayor is humiliated by his incompetence, and his failure to get the police to be good. Bellwether comes out strong against the mayor, denouncing him as a fool. And demands he resign otherwise she will force an impeachment. She even uses dog whistles to attack the msyor (a lion) and infers that a predator deliberately allowed prey to be hurt by these drug induced predators. Why because the lion is apredetor, it’s his nature. She even says “as a sheep I know what it’s like to be abused, threatened, and disrespected. No more!”. But…Judy and Nick begin questioning how could the police be unaware of this drug trade? Apparently it had been going for longer. Somehow they discover that certain officers had actually lied or whitewashed police reports, specifically those in street crime task forces. But they noticed that most of the officers (who were only prey), when reported for police brutality and drug trafficking, were directly hired on the recommendations of bellweather, that bellweather intervened to help our officers when they needed help, and there was undisclosed money sent by officers to the office of bellweather. The movie ends, with Judy and Nick realizing that bellweather was not only aware of the drug trade, but had worked with fellow officers to profit off the trade and to deliberately attack predators. This was to allow a very serious crime to further destabilize the mayor’s’ office, and gain a following to support her campaign as mayor all the while planning to implement a more regressive policy. She didn’t like prey, don’t trust them. As for her background, perhaps all we need is that bellweather like many prey had bad experiences with prey not only physically but within the office, the micro aggression, seeing predator officials be incompetent. the film should show that bellweather may be the villain, but the environment made her, and if she wasn’t here, the same corruption would exist. It’s all in the game baby (quoting omar).
First, you have made a good and fair analysis. Great job. Second, I would have enjoyed Dawn Bellwether if she were properly developed as a "puppetmaster" type villain. The potential was there: she was already the low-key, humble bureaucrat in the correct position to "make friends and influence people" so that others would unwittingly do her work for her while she maintained an unimpeachable mask of innocence. Soft power, with the occasional quiet murder to silence those who knew too much. Alas, this version of her was not meant to be. Thirdly, to play devil's advocate for a moment, what if we interpret Dawn Bellwether as a commentary on the shallowness of the modern perception of power? It is a very human (read: flawed) assessment to look at those in power and say, "If only I had that kind of power, everything would be better." What if Dawn Bellwether was only cunning enough to sidle up to power by stealth, but not wise enough to realize she was siezing more than she could handle? What if she seems shallow and foolish because... that's what she is?
True, but with Jack Horner, it played into the themes of the film, which was to value life, be thankful for what you have, and not be overly obsessed with shallow things. Jack Horner worked in that film because he was the exact opposite of the themes, a perfect reflection of what Puss could've become if he continued on the path he was going down before meeting the Wolf
@xenoshadow7575 There aren't hard and fast rules in writing, its all about context. Even a flat unmotivated villain can be a good villain if the rest of the story supports that choice.
I think another way this could work is if Bellwether is portrait as seemingly knowing a little too much of the case sometimes. Like if she occasionally slips in one or two important clues/ directions when helping the main characters through the case. So instead of Nick and Judy finding all the strings on their own Bellwether could be the third "brain" of the party leading them to where she wanted this to go. Her place is in the city halls so we won't necessarily suspect if she has some extra info, but then looking back it would be like: Oh she knew this all along cus she did it.
Hearing your comment about Lionheart makes me realize that *he* would be the perfect fit for the twist villain. You described the foreshadowing *and* his motive quite well, saying how he tries to make himself look like the hero, which is exactly what happens in the movie. He doesn't *cause* the Night Howlers, but he *does* try to keep it under control so it won't affect his image Of course they would still need a villain to be the one behind this, but honestly, even just some random guy we've never seen before and who has a prejudice against predators due to some tragic backstory would've probably worked out a lot better than trying to make it a twist reveal
Here are a few of my ideas! Scar: (Lion King) an envious villain Zira:( Lion King 2) a cynical villain or a grieving villain Lord Farquaad: (Shrek) an insecure villain Gaston: (Beauty and the Beast) a self absorbed villain or entitled villain Jafar: (Aladdin) an angry villain
I'd slate big Jack Horner as a better example of the entitled villain, Gaston has an ounce of vagueness on his view of the world, Jack is just a jerk who was never going to be happy with anything he got
I honestly didn’t have her figured out till almost the end. It wasn’t until they hijacked the train car and one of the rams was one the phone filling them in about a situation at the lab and my brain finally woke up going “Wait! Who is he talking to?!” Then going through who was left it didn’t take long to piece it together.
For some Disney villains to analyse, how about some of the ones from the 1990s series Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers? Two recurring ones being Professor Nimnul and Fat Cat, both introduced in the 5-part pilot episode, but only appearing as independent villains after that.
Context is definitely important, but I think subtle foreshadowing can achieve just as much, especially in a kids’ film. There should be small, seemingly innocent moments that hint at an ulterior motive-nothing too obvious, but enough that when the twist is revealed, viewers can connect the dots. It’s the kind of storytelling where, in hindsight, you realize those details were there all along, and it leaves you with that satisfying ‘Oh, now it all makes sense!’ moment. For example, Toy Story 3 does this masterfully with Lotso. His overly friendly demeanor, casual remarks about ‘earning your place,’ and the eerie vibe of Sunnyside all plant subtle seeds of doubt. These moments don’t feel suspicious at first but take on a whole new meaning when his true nature is revealed. It’s a great balance of subtlety and payoff that makes the twist hit harder, and I think that’s the level of care twist villains really need.
A twist villain needs to be hinted at. It needs setup. Bell was a background gag at best. This is not a twist villain, its a "out of left field" villain.
I can only imagine how they'll handle the "villain" in the sequel. Needless to say, out of all the movies I'm anticipating in 2025, Zootopia 2 is one of the ones I'm looking forward to the least.
@narpanox1 It's nothing like that. I know Disney needs this to happen to make money and a sequel to this does make sense, in terms of themes and world-building. I'm just a little nervous that it would be less like Inside Out 2 and more like Moana 2. Because I want this movie to feel like it belongs in the billion dollars club and not just another balance in Disney's checkbook.
@@narpanox1 The only way that it would truly "piss me off" is if it was a blatant cash grab with no true rhyme or reason why a sequel needed to be made. I wouldn't be mad. Just disappointed that it turned out just mid.
I think that might be because "Zootopia" is stylised after an "adult" crime show(it is very similar plotwise to a Finnish series "Midnight sun" in particular, though I don't know whether this was intentional), and a characteristic of such is that the murderer is often someone who we least expect(in "Midsomer murders", for example, frequently a completely background character would be the one who did it).
I’m willing to bet that once Disney saw audiences surprising responses towards King Candy as Turbo, they then made it a mandate to put twist villains in the remaining upcoming films there forwards until audiences got tired of it and caught on to the lazy trend way too quickly.
Here's a way they could've easily made bellweather work: Make bellwether one of the sheep kids have her become friends with Judy. She says something like "little people looking out for each other." The two get close. Later Show that has been a victim multiple times by "predators" bully peers and Judy her friend coming to save her. As an older teen maybe show her family take her to Zootopia the city of "equal opportunity and equality." To live in for a better start. Movie plays out as normal. Judy goes to Zootopia reunites with bellweather. And we see while she's slightly more confident she's still shyish and more reserved. Predators and people above her still don't take her seriously we can see she's annoyed by this but puts up the act she's fine. Movie plays out as normal. And the movie then does the twist moment. She's not doing it for power. It's more as revenge against predators. Bringing up what she's gone through as a child and working to where she is now. And it twisted her abit. She will sacrifice Judy Judy to Nick with a little remorse but feel she's still in the right. Everything else plays the same as the movie. Imexpect her reasoning not being about power ...
9:40 Bellwether used Judy as a tool. I think she believed Judy could do something special, but never truly liked her. When she realizes Judy is going against her plan (by exposing the mind controlling flower) she THEN goes to exterminate her. Judy knows her secret. Why keep her around? You could argue that Bellwether shouldn't have offered the role of city face if she didn't care about Judy. But I think that was just a way of keeping her calm, because clearly Judy wasn't happy with what she said during the interview. +, she couldn't have known Judy would discover the truth.
I feel like making her a tragic villain woulda been really good. Keep the goal the same but instead of muhaha-ing it up have her say like "Im sorry Judy- I.. I never wanted you to end up like this but, I cant have you ruining everything.." etc etc have her regretful that Judy is getting close to blowing it all sky high. Same goals and motivations but less maniacal and more sly. Her plans were working but there was a hiccup etc
I disagree with the part on her appearance. Bellwheather is a bad villain because they didn't take their time on her, it means that she might have showed up more doing things that might as well "help" the main characters, but also making them her pawns and in the end, making them fight against her in the end of the movie, not just suggesting she was arrested. She would need to be the ultimate test for Judy by turning Nick into a predator(in fact) because Judy used to rely on Nick a LOT. In fact, Judy wouldn't move if it weren't for nick and Bellwheater had Judy in her hands because it is her word against Judy's. Although they have recorded her voice, Bellwheater still had many ways to defend herself, from accusing Judy of lies. You could build a whole new movies with ideas basically. But before that happened, Bellwheater should've been some kind of "friend" to Judy, like Nick was, just so Judy would be betrayed. I think this would've helped a lot. She wouldn't need a complicated backstory. But since it's basically a detective story, it would be interesting if Judy actually found something about Bellwheater and investigated her first, and dropping it because she didn't believe she could be the villain behind the story, as she goes after at least three characters. If it's a detective story, it should've been built as one. As for her strong motives, again, detective movie. She would've been uncovered.
I don't think Judy not being suspicious of Bellweather showing up to the station, but being suspicious in the museum is an issue I do agree that she was a wasted villain, but I don't think this point stands up. Judy hadn't yet learned that Bellweather was effectively just a glorified secretary, and she *is* a city official. Her paying a visit to the Police Station would easily be accepted as being on city business. Showing up at the Museum means she was, at best, actively watching Judy on the camera system, and at worst, she was aware of what was happening and was complicit
26:00 judy hops wouldnt have been needed if bellweather was all ready president she was likely using judy to get rid of the old president and without that judy would have been stuck as a meeter maid the show also maid it clear these animals didnt take small prey seriously
To Fix Bellwether: 1. Design She should be a black sheep-an obvious hint and a funny gag, but it would also nicely foreshadow her villainous nature. This design choice could make her less suspicious as a villain because of her seemingly harmless character. 2. Character She should be more manipulative. If there were scenes where she subtly suggests to Judy that predators might be the only ones who "return to their nature," provides Judy with false information, or pressures the Mayor to hide rogue animals, we could become suspicious of her. Additionally, she needs more scenes where she plays the victim. While there are some, they seem too genuine to come across as manipulative. A bit more complexity in how she victimizes herself would add depth. 3. Backstory We know she’s pushed around, but there’s only one scene showing her being treated poorly. That’s not enough. Maybe she could open up about her childhood, sharing stories of bullying or exclusion, which could subtly hint at her motives. Most importantly, she’s too nice! One scene where she loses her temper-yelling at someone, perhaps because she’s tired and frustrated with the missing animals situation-would show she’s not perfect. This would ironically make her feel more "human." 4. Her Plan Her plan should revolve around getting rid of predators and gaining power. The inability to control predators could motivate her decision to eliminate them, subsequently securing her dominance. However, she shouldn’t harm herbivores. We also need to see more of her sheep minions, who appear at the end of the film. Lionheart should be depicted as a tool in Bellwether’s scheme, manipulated by her. 5. The Reveal Nick should be the one to discover that Bellwether is the villain. Judy, unaware of this, only knows that Nick has gone savage. She visits him in the asylum, where she finds a clue that sets her on the path to uncovering the villain but doesn’t directly reveal Bellwether. When Bellwether is finally exposed, she should actively try to get rid of Judy, adding more drama to the climax. Long Story Short: Bellwether needs to feel more complex and flawed-more "human"
I think Bellweather is more so a vechecle for the real underlying idea... Is a "utopa" possible. Or rather is it bossibke for a bunch of different critters to live togeather? Judy's optimism is really tested in this film and nearly snuffed out a few times. But when she meets Nick she finds comrade. He challenges her but also stands up for her. And by far the most poingint part of the film for me was after Judys confrrence meeting where she nearly pulled out the Fox Spray. Here was Judy the supposed bastion of harmony and coexistance...and even she still held prejudice. But what makes Judy truly admirable is she confronts this. She doesnt accept the promotion and is dispondent to see preds being treated with suspicion. Once she finds out about the berries she realizes that Predators arent really going feril and that the whole biology angle was a bunch of pseudoscience. Belleweather on the other hand nearly had it all in the bag. Her Lion boss was gonna be in prison and with the predators being treated with suspension the prey (whom are more numerous) would likely keep her in power. But Judy confronting her was something she didnt account for because...well...their both prey. The one thing Bellweather never considered was what if Judy or any other prey made friends with Preds. Thats just my opinion. I do think they should have made her motives a bit more obvious but as cheeze as it is to say..."fear" was the real enemy. Zootopia isnt perfect. It can be a rough place. But so long as their are people like Judy and now Nick...its a place worth fighting for~
I get what you're saying but how is she gonna be a "twist villain" if we get hints and foreshadowing all the time? To me the twist worked, contrary to coco where I knew from the beginning who the villain was, that part is a bit confusing. The point was for her to lay low and come out of nowhere, which to me, worked.
just a thought that came to mind watching this. going off the mayor bellwether idea, lionheart couldve been a mentee or grooming victim of sorts. i can see bellwether 'encouraging' him by saying things like "you can do better," "i know you can do this," or smth along those lines while giving him impossible standards to live up to. OH going off this actually could make lionheart's willingness to keep things hush hush another attempt at living up to said standards and proving his worth. It feels a bit awkward with how he's written in the movie, but it could simply be a matter of a public persona vs view of self and fixed with small moments of the 'mask' cracking. i also feel this would nicely juxtapose the 'heart of a lion' phrase occasionally used. this isnt to say lionheart should be meek, but that his insecurities are preyed upon, similar to how ernesto's self esteem gets the better of him. bellwether's carefully worded 'encouragement' would still promote her inclusive and supportive persona without going against her character. "you can do this," is very different from "i believe in you." one is an expectation, the other is a declaration of faith, which bellwether would NOT have in lionheart. some moments where bellwether is pushing people past their limit, but hiding it behind 'faith in their abilities' would also play into her cunning beyond plain deception by wearing out those most around her and most likely to hinder or discover her plans. She could bury city hall in the bureaucratic minutiae while making plenty of public appearances and stunts to SEEM like a caring and effective mayor. and with the info network necessary to maintain all this, she would be able to figure out which people and organizations (primarily made up of predators) to subtly provoke to make her seem like the scorned helper, making her into a martyr as well. 'oh if only so-and-so hadnt lashed out at her, then maybe her idea couldve worked' nick could also still suspect bellwether beyond the reasonable 'corrupt politician' card due to previous experience with 'too good to be true' helpful or cheerful people. it would give more to his backstory and unwillingness to open up while also cluing the audience in that something isnt quite right here. its pretty satisfying making these what ifs and connections :D
The Mammal Inclusion Initiative wasn't about including prey in positions of government. Lionheart is essentially a black mayor, when she talks about little guys, she refers to small mammals. But she is in the end, a racial supremacist and wants absolute power, she wants to control the city and uses predators as a convenient scapegoat to seize power for herself. She clearly does much more of the actual running of the city than the Mayor does, as seen by him delegating budgets and paperwork to her.
To me, I think part of what they missed out on was more clarification and connecting the dots. Bellweather is actually kind of terrifying to me, if you overanalyze her. I thjnk what they were going for is a bigoted puppeteer in need of martyrs for her cause (hence turning on Judy). As such, if you overanalyze you'd see she would order out hits on predators that would consistently put prey at risk. She almost feels contrasted with that Mafia mole family. Both ordering hits, but one puts their name a little more on the order. She was poorly played from the writing standpoint, but i cant deny her actions and goals ARE there, and interesting to me. Just poorly conveyed. Almost in a way more befitting an epic drama mystery. Which I guess Zootopia was trying to be. But that part felt sidelined too much for comedy and to keep it a kid's film
What annoys me with twist villains is the personality shift after the reveal. Any previous characterization is tossed aside, and suddenly they're a cold calculating sadistic monster. Capable of upholding a great act, fooling everyone, potentially for years. Zootopia is a crime mystery, a twist villain is practically necessary, but they really half baked this one.
Bellwether was right in a sense that a Utopia cannot exist; we cannot all live as one on this planet in peace and harmony. We need a little discord and chaos to counter act with the peace and harmony. There is no Utopia on planet earth so Lennon is wrong
As much as I love Zootopia in fact, it’s my second favorite Disney movie and I am very excited for the sequel. I do agree with you that Bellweather is one of the worst twist villains Disney has ever done.
Something I wanna know is...what actually qualifies as "predator" and "prey"? Because last I checked...Buffalo and Rhinos don't hunt and kill other animals to eat(For the most part...) they eat vegetables and berries...and lions would try to hunt Buffalo... So wouldn't Buffalo technically be considered "prey"? Which means that not all prey are small and helpless. heck aren't ELEPHANTS prey to some creatures? They're the biggest land animal today, but are they classified as "predator" in this movie for some reason? I don't honestly get it really.
I saw her change from cheering for Judy to trying to kill her as a way to make Judy a martyr for her agenda and that’s why she wanted Judy to be the face of the ZPD. She was always driven by power and if she assisted Judy with solving the missing carnivore cases, made her the face of the ZPD, and then publicized her death at the hands of a carnivore she trusted; Bellwether would have a name and face that she could use to justify and strengthen her agenda, and the perfect scapegoat in Nick.
Exactly. It's pretty obvious.
*"Think of the headlines! Hero Cop slain by Savage Fox!"*
which also explains why Bellweather used literal goats to attack Nick and Judy
bell was a check mark not a character, this is why twist villains started to go down in quality. the twist villains were starting to be use as a gimmick and not as a characters they were.
Yeah, they kept downplaying her so she was present, but not present enough to the point where she'd be on the radar. Of course, that's just how some twist villains are.
I feel like a "downplayed" character like Bellweather _could_ work as a twist villain, but the writing has to be on top of it. With limited appearance, you really would need to make the most out of any clues. Being too subtle while also downplaying your antagonist like that is just going to create an "out of nowhere" experience like what we got.
So I think Bellwether was willing to let Judy die because Judy dying, at the hand of a predator everyone had seen her with, it would show not even the hardest working of "little guys" were safe.
If she still felt Judy was a threat, she could have secretly sent assassins after her anytime to cover her tracks. But then we wouldn't have a movie I suppose. But still...
@@Disneyfan82 The point wasn't just to get rid of Judy, it was to spread fear when the famous bunny cop is killed off my a deranged predator, right at the same time there was tension between the two groups.
Bellweather being conflicted or at least expressing remorse for sending Judy to her death would have given her some depth : it would have show that she did appreciate Judy but was willing to get rid of any obstacle on her way.
@@lasercraft32 Yeah it's not hard at all to understand, "Hero Cop muled to death by her Fox Friend" is a first page title that writes itself.
Bellwether doesn't actually care about small prey at all, she's just using the speciesm to stay in power. If anything she's the most realistic disney villain ever, governmets all over the world are riddled with Bellwheters.
@@Disneyfan82 Judy getting killed off in a non-public fashion wouldn't serve Bellwether's cause - to ramp up Predator hatred.
A quick fix writters could have made is having Bellweather either murmur or seem spiteful whenever she is mistreated. Could have been obvious but at the same time, you would have seen it as justified.
Agreed
Also they should’ve revealed the twist earlier in the movie.
They do drop a blink-and-you-miss-it hint during Judy's first day, when she meets Nick. The ram that shouts at Nick for crossing the street in front of him, the entire reason Judy notices Nick, is Bellwether's henchman, Doug. You see him again later in the lab scene, as the one refining the nighthowler serum. Fun fact: the three rams are a reference to Breaking Bad, with the names Doug, Jesse, and Woolter, with the nighthowler lab being a reference to the chem lab in the show.
Which Dreamworks film do you❤?
Not only this, but in Bellweather's office, you see a sticky note with the name 'Doug' and a phone number. It's done really subtle in the movie.
@CraftyMaelyss and, of course, Duke drops the name when Nick and Judy are interrogating him with the help of Mr. Big by answering "it's a ram named Doug, but he's the opposite of friendly. He's unfriendly."
@CraftyMaelyss and, of course, Duke drops the name when Nick and Judy are interrogating him with the help of Mr. Big by answering "it's a ram named Doug, but he's the opposite of friendly. He's unfriendly."
@@renthegigglefox you said it twice lol
I saw Bellwether as the villain a mile away - when she logged Judy into the computer system, I thought, "She's being a little too helpful. She's up to something."
Anyone could have been helpful to Judy, not just her.
My take on that was "bit weird, but the over eager weirdo is a nice spin for an assistant", she didn't clock as a villain, she clocked as kinda flat support character.
Zootopia was the one movie where having a more symbolic villain would’ve worked. You can’t just take a minor character and give her an evil laugh and say “SEE! She was behind everything!!! Bet you didn’t see that one coming!!!”. Prejudice isn’t something you can just give a face and defeat in one fell swoop. It’s a disease that always finds a way to survive no matter how much he attempt to stop it.
Bellwether was trying to make Hopps become a representation of the prey, so she could turn the rabbit into a false martyr.
To be fair, the line "o-ho, no! *HE WILL."* Is a really hard line.
Agreed.
timestamp?
It’s rather a cliched line imo nowadays. Maybe at the time the line wasn’t but it certainly hasn’t aged well
@@androognoix1685 Agreed.
@@SPAnComCat it’s a hard line but hasn’t aged well due to other media overusing it? Is that what you’re implying?
Bellwether being a terrible twist villain is extra frustrating because she's such a well written villain. All they had to do was give her a little bit of extra screen time with her doing a bunch of mayoral assistant stuff. You can hide plenty of setup in a handful of interractions with established side characters. Have her interract with Nick alone, where her being "weirdly keen" on his thieves' cant gives the audience a clue.
If I remember right, several bits of the story where retcon for being too dark. And that the movie itself was supposed to be a little different than the movie we got. Which is how it ended up trying to touch on a lot of different subjects but failing on most of them. From the manufactured crack cocaine epidemic, to the themes of racism that were poorly implemented.
It was more than a retcon or a "little" different. The whole movie needed to be rewritten! But you're correct. Originally it was supposed to be Nick who was the main character and it involved tame collars that shocked predators when they got upset. It was a bit too dark and probably hit too close to real world things so they needed to revise it.
This is one of the few times when I think a twist villain was warranted since this was a mystery film. But I'd have loved to see more of Bellweather's past to explain her motivation beyond underappreciation. Rare time when the heroes are more interesting than the villain.
Yeah, I get that
Even Scooby Doo at least has their villains around more
Unless in the few cases where it’s actually multiple villains who more often than not have similar ideas.
Or it just straight up turns out that oh yeah, the legend and magic is true.
@Flame-rp6yq My own headcanon is something like this: Bellweather had a traumatic experience(s) like Judy, and vows to change Zootopia, but she has a twinge of bitterness and vengence to it. Given the fact that the actual MAYOR is a lion and predators actively try to erase prejudice about them, maybe a lot of predator crime is underreported by the police or the news, and Bellweather's abuse by predators is overlooked as a result. Enraged by what she sees as predators bullying their way into power, she develops the belief that "fear always works" and that all she needs to do is find a situation where suspicion against predators is validated and forever damages Zootopia's views on them. Maybe she'd even turn on larger prey, feeling as though they were never threatened or abused by predators due to their size/build.
Yeah, if anyone deserves their own origin story and tragic villain mark, it's Bellwether. Not Maleficent, Jafar, Cruella, or even Scar. But Bellwether, to me is like the Baby Doll of Zootopia, broken and shattered by society that is unkind and cruel to the "little guys" and more.
@Disneyfan82 I'd add Yzma to that due to her humor and charisma--plus Kuzco could be the scene stealer as payback.
Agreed. I really hope we look into Bellwether’s backstory in the sequel because we really need to know what made her do what she did because leaving her out just like that would be a terrible waste to her beautiful appearance. Not to mention there are so many unanswered questions about the night howler scandal which would take more than one single mastermind to handle it all out.
8:30 Racism is prejudice based on RACE not power class, hints the name. There is no such thing as "reverse" racism, just racism.
That's not true
@@zuhamalik1662Anyone can be racist against any ethnicity. Black, Asian, white it doesn't matter.
@@zuhamalik1662If you don't like someone purely based off their skin color and nothing else that's racist. It don't matter what your own skin looks like.
You're right on that one.
Absolutely right
Bellwheater should have been used better and seen more on screen. In my opinion I feel like Bellwether and Judy should’ve have been friends ever since Judy defended the group of sheep and Bellwether could have been one of them. Both of them would have supported each other and stood together as “little guys” But would soon go to different paths. Growing up, Bellwether would be considered a middle child of her two other siblings (which I’m just gonna say are the other two sheep with her at the fair.) and would never get attention from their parents while the oldest and youngest got more attention. What would make it worse for her is she got bullied constantly for being small and eventually wanted to study to become something bigger, an assistant mayor. Bellwether would be excited to do this job, only to realize the mayor is a predator and treated just as badly as all the other predators in her childhood. The only one that helped her was Judy, and appreciated her for that but secretly hated her for trying to work with predators at the police force, but would try to support her so she wouldn’t lose her only friend she ever had. Eventually Bellwether would start a plan to work against the predators in secret while Judy worked along with them. Bellwether could’ve also used this opportunity as assistant mayor to take over the city and use her friend to defend and help with her takeover. Throughout the story as Judy went through the case Bellwether could’ve used this as an advantage to her plan. Since Bellwether is assistant mayor and mayor later in the movie she could use cameras all over the city and can research possible suspects and certain areas to throw Judy off guard. Later in the movie, Nick could’ve suspected Bellwether of what she’s doing and told Judy about it, and Judy would soon have to chose to believe a prey or predator. In the end Judy would believe Bellwether and Nick got upset and left. Judy would then feel guilty and try to find Nick and Judy would soon find out Bellwether was the bad guy all along and had no choice but to fight her friend. Bellwether soon finds out about Judy knowing her plan and would soon betray Judy and try to kill her and Nick before they told the police anything. Bellwether hesitated to do this at first but after seeing Judy was going to believe and work with the predators no matter what happened, she decided to not look back. After she gets arrested, Judy tried to talk to her again but Bellwether ignored her entirely and forever hates Judy for befriending predators despite all she’s gone through and Judy has seen. And that’s I would do to make her story better in my opinion. (If anyone sees this comment, comment down what you think would be better.)❤
You really planned this out very well; maybe your idea should be made as an alternate version of the story.
@@edgardeitz5746 I’m glad you like my idea, and making it as an alternate story sounds amazing to do when I have free time.💗💗💗
@@madycartoonlover3383 Indeed, between the final movie, the rough draft involving "tame" collars, and your version, we have three viable versions of the story.
if Judy lived there was a chance Dawn's plot would've been exposed, why would villains want to risk having loose ends?
Honestly I think a cooler concept is that she was literally a wolf in sheep's clothes. Basically she would be a wolf that was small for her species and could have been alpha but was too small to lead her clan. So to get power she would weasel her way into it by getting rid of larger predators to have less competition.
I personally thought that her as a villain was to show that the upper class and elites don’t have your back. As you mentioned they have a shady background, prop up the underdog, and whenever they get the opportunity throw the underdog under the bus for more power. They could have written her better but I liked the message I got from her character
Due to the message of the film, Bellwether is one of those twist villains I kind of don’t mind. She wanted power, tried to get it through legal means, and then when she couldn’t she turned to fearmongering. “Well I’M not a predator” is enough of a justification and has real-life parallels.
Man Don't confuse Lamb with sheep its a same animal. Lambs Are baby sheep. As a person who onw's farm this is a bit misleading. Please correct that. 3:30
Indeed; his two examples confused me because A. There are no evolved birds or reptiles in Zootopia, so no pigeon characters, and B. Those young sheep technically *are* lambs.
Maybe other farm animals like goat kids or calves, or just other mediums rodents.
can you confirm sheep are Not as small as a rabbit?
it just really bugs me that bellweather is as small as judy, when as far as ive seen, sheep can get BIG
@ Indeed, though given the sheep who work for her are much bigger, I suspect Bellwether was an outlier when it came to size.
I feel so bad, but between that and "alot," I can't even finish the video 💀
"Wolf in sheep skin", yeah i think that's just an evil sheep.
There was ONE other hint towards Bellweather... All the ones responsible for making the night howler pellets were sheep (its not a very good hint, nobody noticed it myself included... But still).
17:32 Bellweather demonstrated patience IN HINDSIGHT when one considers Nick, who was a predatory animal (fox) whom she supposedly hates stroked her wool while she looked up information for Him and Judy in the computer scene. If her anti-predator agenda was meant to be taken seriously, She can't have liked Nick in particular petting her. Bellweather's personal security AND her henchmen making the aggression serum in the subway are ALL big strong Sheep. Bellweather was likely meant to be more a "Sheep supremacist" rather than a "prey supremacist".
What I think though is that Disney must have not caught that this villain could be seen as a "racial supremacist" until later in production and they thought Bellweather was "promoting racism". Thus her motives were watered down GREATLY via Disney flushing them and telling themselves not elaborating on Bellweather's motives was okay because she would be "less suspect". THAT's why her villainy comes off as such an afterthought. Bellweather was "Hans 2.0" by accident!
Yo i just search "Zootopia Villain" and this video show up at top and i just realized it was uploaded 15 minutes ago. What a coincidence lmao.
And i just realized this is the same channel who uploaded video about Shen!
While Bellwether isn't the worst twist villain (the prince from Frozen comes to mind) she isn't exactly the best. The hints where there don't get me wrong but she had three to eight minutes of screen time which made her twist villainy come out of no where. For example during the third act after Judy leaves Zootopia they should have placed a scene where Bellwether is supporting the segregation of Prey and Predator. That way the seed of her being the final villain and when Bellwether corners Judy and Nick she should have come off more hesitant to kill Judy.
Hans is a lot easier to spin as a bold faced liar, he knows how to act the part of a perfect person to the hopeless romantic that is Anna, then Bellwether is to spin as any kind of mastermind
Bellweather wanted Judy dead because it would be at the hand of a predator.
Judy was a threat to Bellweather. She was smart, hard-working, and on a pursuit of the truth. All the things people in power don’t want. It didn’t help that Judy was famous after exposing the predators kept in the facility and becoming the first bunny cop. Bellweather knew Judy would keep trying to solve it, so she had to get rid of her (well, she wanted to get rid of the evidence Judy found, but Judy refused and ran away, so better to just kill Judy).
If Judy was just randomly found dead, that would be very suspicious. But if a predator (which were already established to be potentially dangerous by, you guessed it, Bellweather’s propaganda) were to kill her, that was easy to explain. She could even make a parade out of it, get people mourning an innocent and hard-working prey animal.
When Judy ran away, Bellweather knew she was found out, and had to get rid of Judy. It felt sloppy and rushed because, in the context of the story, it *was*. She expected Judy to fully trust her and hand over the briefcase. She had to think quickly, and the quickest option was to just kill her and use Nick as a scapegoat (haha get it? ScapeGOAT?)
I personally like Bellweather, considering it *is* a kid’s film.
if someone spent 5 minutes fleshing out her character in a beginning scene it would of worked. you need to show the audience how her hatred of predators was taught. you can see that judy’s parents have a fear of predators but show that bellwethers parents hated them and taught her that predators are worthless and that they need to hold the power and then maybe you can do the scene in the beginning with the fox and the sheep and have one of the sheep be bellwether and afterwords she says “ i hate predators” and judy tells her it’s not predators it’s just him he’s a jerk then walk off together but as they walk in she looks back with conviction and you can see her during the play( i think it was a play) in the crowd not cheering subtle hints like that just spend 5 minutes showing how her hatred was taught would’ve made her so compelling if they wanted to do a villain who just wanted power the mouse was the best option
At least Bellwether is better than Hans as a twist villain. But the best Disney villain twist is Turbo / King Candy
see, the sign of a good twist villain is that they play 2 sides until the reveal. assistant mayor was clearly a character of hers, and you missed the entire point of her being the villain
Gotta disagree on needing a backstory; it's actually made villains boring in recent years
Jack Horner from Puss In Boots: The Last Wish is a great villain because of how he spits in the face of the sympathetic villain trope.
His backstory is played for comedy and still shows why he hates fairytale creatures.
no one suspected her because THERE WAS NO REASON TO. she had no real motivation!
Thinking about it, there wasn’t an explicitly stated reason. Sure you can read between the lines but if she had a motive then without a doubt I believe the villainy would have been better
Her problem was that predators…existed? And she didn't want them to?
I guess there were some indications that prey were a minority in positions of power, but there didn't seem to be explicit discrimination or anything like that.
@LudicrosityIndustries She's a caricature of your average fearmongering politician, is the problems they usually ride at the election ever as big as they make it up to be?
The movies makes it as obvious as possible, by saying that predators haven't eaten prey for millenia while showing prey being afraid of predators in the very next scene.
@LudicrosityIndustries I think she said in her final speech that prey make up the majority of the population. having them united under the belief of predators being dangerous will keep bellwether in charge as she promises to keep the prey safe. its basically what Hitler did when/before he became in charge of Germany. he made the German people hate/ fear Jewish people, blaming them for the loss of the first world war as well as several other things. he united the German people under fear and hatred and it kept him in charge.
@LudicrosityIndustries I think she said in her final speech that prey make up the majority of the population. having them united under the belief of predators being dangerous will keep bellwether in charge as she promises to keep the prey safe. its basically what Hitler did when/before he became in charge of Germany. he made the German people hate/ fear Jewish people, blaming them for the loss of the first world war as well as several other things. he united the German people under fear and hatred and it kept him in charge.
I think a great way to fix her, without even changing the rest of the story, would be to associate her with the nighthowler flowers. Putting them on her desk or something would make the twist so much clearer!
Disney's twist villains peaked with King Candy and just went downhill afterwards (Ernesto aside since he was Pixar)
Mother Gothel was the last legitimately good Disney Villain, if we’re being honest , but yeah.
@chasehedges6775 I do love Tangled, but I love Wreck it Ralph more, so I lean a bit more on his end. But yes, Gothel is the last great traditional villain Disney made for sure
Just when you thought it was safe to go to bed, toon drops another video
Yeah, typically when it comes to villains, I believe only twist villains should get the "why" as to them being evil, because throughout the movie, we dont fully see why they are, however, I dont think the same should happen with villains that, from the start, we know are villains. Like Scar for example, everyone knew he was evil from the start and as the movie proceeds, it's easy to see that he did what he did because of greed and wanting to be king. Hell, his whole "life isnt fair, is it?" speech to the mouse an then later what he says to Zazu and Mufasa "I was first in line, then the little hairball was born" meaning he was bitter about the fact that he should have been the next king but then simba was born meaning he'd die before getting the chance to be king unless he did something about it. We did not need Mufasa, a movie made to make Scar out to be a sympathetic villain, and from what I heard from my sister, who saw it yesterday with her kids, it completely changes who Kovu and the Outsiders are. Instead of them being lions that were in Mufasa's pride who sided with Scar's way of ruling and were thus banished from the pride lands by Simba, apparently they are now the pride of lions that scar was born into or were the bad guys in the movie, I forget, but like, no, thats dumb. I actually liked the RA (Realistic Animation) Lion King, but i hate that the story is changed
The comparison at 4:01 made me think all of a sudden, why do sheep even exist in this world? Isn’t a sheep an animal created by domestication?
A cool twist could've been that Bellwether and Lionheart were actually in cahoots. Imagine all her "us little ones" comments were a lie to get Judy to trust her more and Lionheart's mistreatment of her was all an act to stir up a divide? Imagine Bell was still actually the mastermind, but Lionheart was in on it WITH her. What would the motivation be though? Power? Greed? I can't remember enough of the movie to think of one. Still, imagine a wolf in sheep's clothing, and a loyal lion lackey/assistant/partner/?
Gonna give my point that they kinda gave away she had something to do with it when we clearly saw her in a position of power immediately as the mayor was delt with
I mean, that didn’t really mean anything. She was the assistant mayor. The mayor was removed. Assistant mayor then takes over. Exact same thing that if the president dies vice president takes over.
@pcdeltalink036 granted, just that when I saw how drastic the shift in her station was, from being basically a secretary to head honcho it was a very clear upgrade.
@ Though now that you bring it up one thing that is a bit strange is we don't know what her original plan for Lionheart would have been. He only got caught because of Judy but that was just a coincidence/plot point. What was her plan to oust the mayor otherwise? Hit him with the serum at some point I guess?
No, Hans is 100% a sociopath, those people are r/confidentlyincorrect, although he could _also_ be a psychopath, that's irrelevant. Bellwether is also a sociopath... do you people _really_ need villains to literally twirl their mustaches on screen and drown orphans and widows before you recognize their behavior? It seems like every time someone is genuinely fooled (but watching through a second time we can definitely see why she does what she does) it breaks their brain, and they go... "but the character wuz smiling... so they're a good guy, right?" or something. Oh no... it gets worse somehow... "but her face was so round?" Bowser has the roundest face in... well it's round anyhow. 'Course he's got horns and fangs... Dedede is round. Even his beak is round.
Seriously, if you're asking why Bellwether set Judy up as the face of the ZPD, her positive reputation as dedicated and optimistic, yet an officer who gets things done, makes her the perfect pawn to gain the trust of the prey population. And after uniting the prey under Judy, think Toon, think; why would Bellwether want to create a martyr for her cause? What could she _possibly_ gain by manufacturing a species riot that she literally just told -Judy- the audience that she was gonna do?
It is less about her believability as a villain and more about how the movie handles revealing that she is one that is the problem here. Yes, there is something to be said about evil hiding in plain sight (or wolves in sheep's clothing, as is the pun here), but, generally speaking, a villain is more engaging when we have more time to see them be evil/suspicious. It is about suspense and anticipation, rather than shock/surprise.
Comparing just King Candy and Bellwether, we get to see multiple scenes where King Candy is malevolent and manipulative prior to the Turbo reveal, and so the audience is more engaged in his character throughout the movie as we try to puzzle out his motivation and wonder if he is partially justified in his extreme actions or not. Bellwether, on the over hand, has a few scenes where she is supportive of Judy, perhaps overly so, and...yeah that's about it prior to her reveal. Nice helpful side character. "Oh, but that helps her fly under the radar!" Okay, but in practice that just means nobody really cares about her character, which isn't great for such an important piece of a story. And the reveal is somewhat surprising, but that's about it - there's very little time left to engage with her character before she is swiftly defeated and the story moves on, making her look rather pathetic in the end.
To be fair, given the type of story this is, her swift defeat isn't surprising...but the limited time we get to see her be villainous still is. Why? Well, half the fun of the detective genre is seeing if you can guess whodunnit before the detectives can...but Zootopia is so enamored with its twist and busy with other things that Bellwether's character seems like an afterthought. Most detective shows at least tip their hand a little by making the culprit the one with the most obvious bias and/or motive to do the crime.
And to be fair, Bellwether might be that, if only she seemed more angry about her mistreatment by the mayor, or a bit more distrustful of Nick...just, give us something. Anything besides "she is the only character left who it logically could be, because we haven't met anyone else with enough power and it'd be weird to introduce a new character this late into the story." If I have to analyze a character's relative screen time to make a proper guess at the story's villain, then the writers didn't craft a very good Sherlock Holmes-style culprit. This is what people mean when they say she is a purely functional, ticks the check boxes kind of villain - there isn't anyone left who it could be, really, and we know there is one, so even if it only sort of makes sense personality-wise...there ya go. So, if she isn't very fun as a detective story culprit OR as a typical Disney villain, then why should we care, again? That's why most people don't care for her as a villain.
Anyways, that's my take. Gonna quit rambling now. Fwiw, I do see some foreshadowing for her, but it's really not enough to build her up to be a grand villain...there's only enough for a rewatch bonus. Subtlety isn't always a good thing.
I'm just noticing she also has a flower pin on her jacket in the computer scene, is it supposed to be a night howler flower or allude to one? Seems like they added a lot of hints but they were all too small.
Bellwether would have been more interesting if she had kept the same demeanor even as she explained how she was planning a race war and was going to kill Judy. Not only would it still feel like the same character, but the contrast could be unnerving.
A scene I think that could’ve added more to Bellweather’s character would be this:
Whenever Lionheart gets caught, obviously Bellweather is called to the scene, and Lionheart takes some of his anger out on Bellweather or says “oh you wouldn’t know” or something when she asks why he would do such a thing.
Then, a scene before the press conference where Judy talks about the case, we see Judy and Bellweather in the bathroom together getting ready. Judy asks why Bellweather lets Lionheart treat her like that, and Bellweather talks about how predators/bigger animals have always pushed her aside or tried to rile her up since she was a child to which then she would say “I give myself power by not letting them see it bothers Me” or something similar like that. Then after she would say some sort of microaggression/generalization of predators but it’s subtle and Judy barely even notices/doesn’t say anything about this. But she would internalize it, which is why she brings up “it may have something to do with their biology” because Bellweather said something similar.
I hope that all makes sense
Ohhh i like this idea, I always feel like it's very abrupt to go from Lionheart's arrest to the press conference. I think a small scene like this could have worked well.
I don’t think bellwether was just hateful toward predators, but large animals as a whole. At the police station, she both outranked and didn’t respect the chief. I think that because she leveraged her position to challenge him, as Bogo is the police chief it’s his call to fire officers not hers. If anyone should have the ability to veto that it’s the mayor and whatever council the city has.
"Us little guys need to look out for each other."
@ Exactly. She feels looked down on because she literally is, I feel like she had some kind of kinship with Judy right from the start because she was a small mammal but realized she wasn’t an ally when she worked with Nick to investigate the feral predators
@@Ryan2K900 Yeah, and Bellwether explains she was only hired because "Lionheart wanted the Sheep Vote" which I think is further explanation why she did what she did.
Much in the way Judy was a Diversity Hire, so was Bellwether, and she faces constant abuse and marginalisation from her boss. Just as Judy does.
Bogo is a prey as a reminder
Hes a wildebeast
These are great breakdowns, live action characters would also be awesome to have analysed
Ignoring the uncomfortable racial aspects of zootopia (seriously the prey animals absolutely have a reason to be afraid of predators), to me, if Disney truly wanted to actually delve into bigotry, then they had to look to the something like the wire or blacksad the comic.
To me the drug subplot dosnt work because it simplifies the actual drug trade our country faces, and it somewhat implies that it’s a result of one person’s evil intentions rather than a event that occurred due to specific circumstances and opportunities.
So what does something like blacksad and the wire do? Simple, they highlight that yes there are major criminals but it’s the SYSTEM that not only brings in these morally deviant people but it enables such behavior. Blacksad and the wire certainly have their flat out racists but this bigotry operating in the city institutions is less open, making it difficult for the heroes to win. In fact there’s usually a misfortune that taints the heroes’ win. And nothing ever changes permanently.
So how could bellwether have worked? Simple, she works alongside Judy and Nick in investigating the movie’s crime. She grows close to Judy while also subtly gaslighting Nick, showing brief signs of hostility that seems passive; blink or or you miss. Judy not only didn’t catch on, but shows her agreement. Bellweather is competent at allowing Judy and Nick to bypass the police’s restrictions and lack of interest, so Nick pushes any doubts down. This feeling of micro aggression piles up and comes out when Nick lashes at Judy for her own bigotry.
Any way, movie proceeds as normal, but this time rather than bellwether being responsible for the spread of the drug, it’s actually the mob boss we met earlier. Why else could a drug spread within a city WITHOUT the approval of the godfather mob boss?? And crime bosses in real life do not have code of honor-see the wire and the sopranos.
So Judy and Nick arrest the mob boss. The mayor is humiliated by his incompetence, and his failure to get the police to be good. Bellwether comes out strong against the mayor, denouncing him as a fool. And demands he resign otherwise she will force an impeachment. She even uses dog whistles to attack the msyor (a lion) and infers that a predator deliberately allowed prey to be hurt by these drug induced predators. Why because the lion is apredetor, it’s his nature. She even says “as a sheep I know what it’s like to be abused, threatened, and disrespected. No more!”. But…Judy and Nick begin questioning how could the police be unaware of this drug trade? Apparently it had been going for longer. Somehow they discover that certain officers had actually lied or whitewashed police reports, specifically those in street crime task forces. But they noticed that most of the officers (who were only prey), when reported for police brutality and drug trafficking, were directly hired on the recommendations of bellweather, that bellweather intervened to help our officers when they needed help, and there was undisclosed money sent by officers to the office of bellweather.
The movie ends, with Judy and Nick realizing that bellweather was not only aware of the drug trade, but had worked with fellow officers to profit off the trade and to deliberately attack predators. This was to allow a very serious crime to further destabilize the mayor’s’ office, and gain a following to support her campaign as mayor all the while planning to implement a more regressive policy. She didn’t like prey, don’t trust them. As for her background, perhaps all we need is that bellweather like many prey had bad experiences with prey not only physically but within the office, the micro aggression, seeing predator officials be incompetent.
the film should show that bellweather may be the villain, but the environment made her, and if she wasn’t here, the same corruption would exist. It’s all in the game baby (quoting omar).
I love blacksad, the anthropomorphic comic where animals wears shoes but the ladies look almost human.At least it showed a real world.
@@jaypee116 i mean its is great artwork!
First, you have made a good and fair analysis. Great job.
Second, I would have enjoyed Dawn Bellwether if she were properly developed as a "puppetmaster" type villain. The potential was there: she was already the low-key, humble bureaucrat in the correct position to "make friends and influence people" so that others would unwittingly do her work for her while she maintained an unimpeachable mask of innocence. Soft power, with the occasional quiet murder to silence those who knew too much. Alas, this version of her was not meant to be.
Thirdly, to play devil's advocate for a moment, what if we interpret Dawn Bellwether as a commentary on the shallowness of the modern perception of power? It is a very human (read: flawed) assessment to look at those in power and say, "If only I had that kind of power, everything would be better." What if Dawn Bellwether was only cunning enough to sidle up to power by stealth, but not wise enough to realize she was siezing more than she could handle? What if she seems shallow and foolish because... that's what she is?
6:55 i mean isn't that what they did with Big Jack horner from puss in Boots the last wish? A lot of people seemed to love him
True, but with Jack Horner, it played into the themes of the film, which was to value life, be thankful for what you have, and not be overly obsessed with shallow things. Jack Horner worked in that film because he was the exact opposite of the themes, a perfect reflection of what Puss could've become if he continued on the path he was going down before meeting the Wolf
@chriscastaway that is true you make a fair point I just thought I would call that out
@xenoshadow7575 There aren't hard and fast rules in writing, its all about context. Even a flat unmotivated villain can be a good villain if the rest of the story supports that choice.
Zootopia es una extraña película en donde todo es genial excepto el malo
I think another way this could work is if Bellwether is portrait as seemingly knowing a little too much of the case sometimes. Like if she occasionally slips in one or two important clues/ directions when helping the main characters through the case. So instead of Nick and Judy finding all the strings on their own Bellwether could be the third "brain" of the party leading them to where she wanted this to go. Her place is in the city halls so we won't necessarily suspect if she has some extra info, but then looking back it would be like: Oh she knew this all along cus she did it.
Hearing your comment about Lionheart makes me realize that *he* would be the perfect fit for the twist villain. You described the foreshadowing *and* his motive quite well, saying how he tries to make himself look like the hero, which is exactly what happens in the movie. He doesn't *cause* the Night Howlers, but he *does* try to keep it under control so it won't affect his image
Of course they would still need a villain to be the one behind this, but honestly, even just some random guy we've never seen before and who has a prejudice against predators due to some tragic backstory would've probably worked out a lot better than trying to make it a twist reveal
Here are a few of my ideas!
Scar: (Lion King) an envious villain
Zira:( Lion King 2) a cynical villain or a grieving villain
Lord Farquaad: (Shrek) an insecure villain
Gaston: (Beauty and the Beast) a self absorbed villain or entitled villain
Jafar: (Aladdin) an angry villain
all of them are overrated. We've seen them so many times. If you want to know how to write a villain like that, there's are a lot of tutorials
I'd slate big Jack Horner as a better example of the entitled villain, Gaston has an ounce of vagueness on his view of the world, Jack is just a jerk who was never going to be happy with anything he got
I honestly didn’t have her figured out till almost the end. It wasn’t until they hijacked the train car and one of the rams was one the phone filling them in about a situation at the lab and my brain finally woke up going “Wait! Who is he talking to?!” Then going through who was left it didn’t take long to piece it together.
I hope the sequel villain is done better
For some Disney villains to analyse, how about some of the ones from the 1990s series Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers? Two recurring ones being Professor Nimnul and Fat Cat, both introduced in the 5-part pilot episode, but only appearing as independent villains after that.
One of this movie's very few flaws. The fact that they actually decided to have the klutzy old granny be the villain.
The best Twist villain that I missed in Disney was Turbo…Wouldn’t change a thing!😂
Context is definitely important, but I think subtle foreshadowing can achieve just as much, especially in a kids’ film. There should be small, seemingly innocent moments that hint at an ulterior motive-nothing too obvious, but enough that when the twist is revealed, viewers can connect the dots. It’s the kind of storytelling where, in hindsight, you realize those details were there all along, and it leaves you with that satisfying ‘Oh, now it all makes sense!’ moment.
For example, Toy Story 3 does this masterfully with Lotso. His overly friendly demeanor, casual remarks about ‘earning your place,’ and the eerie vibe of Sunnyside all plant subtle seeds of doubt. These moments don’t feel suspicious at first but take on a whole new meaning when his true nature is revealed. It’s a great balance of subtlety and payoff that makes the twist hit harder, and I think that’s the level of care twist villains really need.
If you go into live action films, could you look at the character of the FireBlaster from Pixels?
A twist villain needs to be hinted at. It needs setup. Bell was a background gag at best. This is not a twist villain, its a "out of left field" villain.
27:44 he was originally meant to be the main character.
How to write a villan like how to train your dragon?
If bellwether really wanted the “little guy” to be appreciated then why would nothing else change in the city like who is in power other than her?
Did you just say they should have used a different animal like a lamb? As in, a lamb is somehow different from a sheep?
Lambs are young sheep 3:48
Can you make a video about the Disney villain Dr. Facilier? 😈❤
What? How to write a well researched villain about voodoo???
I can only imagine how they'll handle the "villain" in the sequel. Needless to say, out of all the movies I'm anticipating in 2025, Zootopia 2 is one of the ones I'm looking forward to the least.
I thought you monkeys loved this sort of progressive slop though.
Oh? Well I hope Zootopia 2 is twice as successful, just solely to piss you off.
@narpanox1 It's nothing like that. I know Disney needs this to happen to make money and a sequel to this does make sense, in terms of themes and world-building. I'm just a little nervous that it would be less like Inside Out 2 and more like Moana 2. Because I want this movie to feel like it belongs in the billion dollars club and not just another balance in Disney's checkbook.
@@narpanox1 The only way that it would truly "piss me off" is if it was a blatant cash grab with no true rhyme or reason why a sequel needed to be made. I wouldn't be mad. Just disappointed that it turned out just mid.
hey... it's here!!! thanks for aniother great vid!!!
Hope you enjoyed it!
Follow the herd, but she tried to break that and lead it instead
I think that might be because "Zootopia" is stylised after an "adult" crime show(it is very similar plotwise to a Finnish series "Midnight sun" in particular, though I don't know whether this was intentional), and a characteristic of such is that the murderer is often someone who we least expect(in "Midsomer murders", for example, frequently a completely background character would be the one who did it).
I’m willing to bet that once Disney saw audiences surprising responses towards King Candy as Turbo, they then made it a mandate to put twist villains in the remaining upcoming films there forwards until audiences got tired of it and caught on to the lazy trend way too quickly.
Here's a way they could've easily made bellweather work:
Make bellwether one of the sheep kids have her become friends with Judy. She says something like "little people looking out for each other." The two get close. Later Show that has been a victim multiple times by "predators" bully peers and Judy her friend coming to save her. As an older teen maybe show her family take her to Zootopia the city of "equal opportunity and equality." To live in for a better start. Movie plays out as normal. Judy goes to Zootopia reunites with bellweather. And we see while she's slightly more confident she's still shyish and more reserved. Predators and people above her still don't take her seriously we can see she's annoyed by this but puts up the act she's fine.
Movie plays out as normal. And the movie then does the twist moment. She's not doing it for power. It's more as revenge against predators. Bringing up what she's gone through as a child and working to where she is now. And it twisted her abit. She will sacrifice Judy Judy to Nick with a little remorse but feel she's still in the right. Everything else plays the same as the movie. Imexpect her reasoning not being about power ...
9:40 Bellwether used Judy as a tool. I think she believed Judy could do something special, but never truly liked her. When she realizes Judy is going against her plan (by exposing the mind controlling flower) she THEN goes to exterminate her. Judy knows her secret. Why keep her around?
You could argue that Bellwether shouldn't have offered the role of city face if she didn't care about Judy. But I think that was just a way of keeping her calm, because clearly Judy wasn't happy with what she said during the interview. +, she couldn't have known Judy would discover the truth.
Ask me, Disney still can’t do twist villains. Coco just seems to be the exception.
What do you think of taking about the iron giant being a great hero
I feel like making her a tragic villain woulda been really good. Keep the goal the same but instead of muhaha-ing it up have her say like "Im sorry Judy- I.. I never wanted you to end up like this but, I cant have you ruining everything.." etc etc have her regretful that Judy is getting close to blowing it all sky high.
Same goals and motivations but less maniacal and more sly. Her plans were working but there was a hiccup etc
I disagree with the part on her appearance. Bellwheather is a bad villain because they didn't take their time on her, it means that she might have showed up more doing things that might as well "help" the main characters, but also making them her pawns and in the end, making them fight against her in the end of the movie, not just suggesting she was arrested. She would need to be the ultimate test for Judy by turning Nick into a predator(in fact) because Judy used to rely on Nick a LOT. In fact, Judy wouldn't move if it weren't for nick and Bellwheater had Judy in her hands because it is her word against Judy's. Although they have recorded her voice, Bellwheater still had many ways to defend herself, from accusing Judy of lies. You could build a whole new movies with ideas basically. But before that happened, Bellwheater should've been some kind of "friend" to Judy, like Nick was, just so Judy would be betrayed. I think this would've helped a lot.
She wouldn't need a complicated backstory. But since it's basically a detective story, it would be interesting if Judy actually found something about Bellwheater and investigated her first, and dropping it because she didn't believe she could be the villain behind the story, as she goes after at least three characters. If it's a detective story, it should've been built as one.
As for her strong motives, again, detective movie. She would've been uncovered.
I don't think Judy not being suspicious of Bellweather showing up to the station, but being suspicious in the museum is an issue I do agree that she was a wasted villain, but I don't think this point stands up. Judy hadn't yet learned that Bellweather was effectively just a glorified secretary, and she *is* a city official. Her paying a visit to the Police Station would easily be accepted as being on city business. Showing up at the Museum means she was, at best, actively watching Judy on the camera system, and at worst, she was aware of what was happening and was complicit
26:00 judy hops wouldnt have been needed if bellweather was all ready president she was likely using judy to get rid of the old president and without that judy would have been stuck as a meeter maid the show also maid it clear these animals didnt take small prey seriously
I still wish they kept the original scrapped plot of the story. I would have been 3x more fire!
To Fix Bellwether:
1. Design
She should be a black sheep-an obvious hint and a funny gag, but it would also nicely foreshadow her villainous nature. This design choice could make her less suspicious as a villain because of her seemingly harmless character.
2. Character
She should be more manipulative. If there were scenes where she subtly suggests to Judy that predators might be the only ones who "return to their nature," provides Judy with false information, or pressures the Mayor to hide rogue animals, we could become suspicious of her. Additionally, she needs more scenes where she plays the victim. While there are some, they seem too genuine to come across as manipulative. A bit more complexity in how she victimizes herself would add depth.
3. Backstory
We know she’s pushed around, but there’s only one scene showing her being treated poorly. That’s not enough. Maybe she could open up about her childhood, sharing stories of bullying or exclusion, which could subtly hint at her motives. Most importantly, she’s too nice! One scene where she loses her temper-yelling at someone, perhaps because she’s tired and frustrated with the missing animals situation-would show she’s not perfect. This would ironically make her feel more "human."
4. Her Plan
Her plan should revolve around getting rid of predators and gaining power. The inability to control predators could motivate her decision to eliminate them, subsequently securing her dominance. However, she shouldn’t harm herbivores. We also need to see more of her sheep minions, who appear at the end of the film. Lionheart should be depicted as a tool in Bellwether’s scheme, manipulated by her.
5. The Reveal
Nick should be the one to discover that Bellwether is the villain. Judy, unaware of this, only knows that Nick has gone savage. She visits him in the asylum, where she finds a clue that sets her on the path to uncovering the villain but doesn’t directly reveal Bellwether. When Bellwether is finally exposed, she should actively try to get rid of Judy, adding more drama to the climax.
Long Story Short:
Bellwether needs to feel more complex and flawed-more "human"
Why did 7-year-old me thought she was a villain just because the fox touched her wool?💀 (I forget their names every time)
Just a quick comment: Kamen Riders writes great twisted villains. (Especially during the Heisei generation)
I think Bellweather is more so a vechecle for the real underlying idea...
Is a "utopa" possible. Or rather is it bossibke for a bunch of different critters to live togeather?
Judy's optimism is really tested in this film and nearly snuffed out a few times.
But when she meets Nick she finds comrade. He challenges her but also stands up for her.
And by far the most poingint part of the film for me was after Judys confrrence meeting where she nearly pulled out the Fox Spray.
Here was Judy the supposed bastion of harmony and coexistance...and even she still held prejudice.
But what makes Judy truly admirable is she confronts this. She doesnt accept the promotion and is dispondent to see preds being treated with suspicion.
Once she finds out about the berries she realizes that Predators arent really going feril and that the whole biology angle was a bunch of pseudoscience.
Belleweather on the other hand nearly had it all in the bag. Her Lion boss was gonna be in prison and with the predators being treated with suspension the prey (whom are more numerous) would likely keep her in power.
But Judy confronting her was something she didnt account for because...well...their both prey.
The one thing Bellweather never considered was what if Judy or any other prey made friends with Preds.
Thats just my opinion. I do think they should have made her motives a bit more obvious but as cheeze as it is to say..."fear" was the real enemy.
Zootopia isnt perfect. It can be a rough place. But so long as their are people like Judy and now Nick...its a place worth fighting for~
I get what you're saying but how is she gonna be a "twist villain" if we get hints and foreshadowing all the time? To me the twist worked, contrary to coco where I knew from the beginning who the villain was, that part is a bit confusing. The point was for her to lay low and come out of nowhere, which to me, worked.
just a thought that came to mind watching this. going off the mayor bellwether idea, lionheart couldve been a mentee or grooming victim of sorts. i can see bellwether 'encouraging' him by saying things like "you can do better," "i know you can do this," or smth along those lines while giving him impossible standards to live up to. OH going off this actually could make lionheart's willingness to keep things hush hush another attempt at living up to said standards and proving his worth. It feels a bit awkward with how he's written in the movie, but it could simply be a matter of a public persona vs view of self and fixed with small moments of the 'mask' cracking. i also feel this would nicely juxtapose the 'heart of a lion' phrase occasionally used. this isnt to say lionheart should be meek, but that his insecurities are preyed upon, similar to how ernesto's self esteem gets the better of him.
bellwether's carefully worded 'encouragement' would still promote her inclusive and supportive persona without going against her character. "you can do this," is very different from "i believe in you." one is an expectation, the other is a declaration of faith, which bellwether would NOT have in lionheart. some moments where bellwether is pushing people past their limit, but hiding it behind 'faith in their abilities' would also play into her cunning beyond plain deception by wearing out those most around her and most likely to hinder or discover her plans. She could bury city hall in the bureaucratic minutiae while making plenty of public appearances and stunts to SEEM like a caring and effective mayor. and with the info network necessary to maintain all this, she would be able to figure out which people and organizations (primarily made up of predators) to subtly provoke to make her seem like the scorned helper, making her into a martyr as well. 'oh if only so-and-so hadnt lashed out at her, then maybe her idea couldve worked'
nick could also still suspect bellwether beyond the reasonable 'corrupt politician' card due to previous experience with 'too good to be true' helpful or cheerful people. it would give more to his backstory and unwillingness to open up while also cluing the audience in that something isnt quite right here.
its pretty satisfying making these what ifs and connections :D
Hans from Frozen was a worse twist villian
The Mammal Inclusion Initiative wasn't about including prey in positions of government. Lionheart is essentially a black mayor, when she talks about little guys, she refers to small mammals. But she is in the end, a racial supremacist and wants absolute power, she wants to control the city and uses predators as a convenient scapegoat to seize power for herself.
She clearly does much more of the actual running of the city than the Mayor does, as seen by him delegating budgets and paperwork to her.
To me, I think part of what they missed out on was more clarification and connecting the dots. Bellweather is actually kind of terrifying to me, if you overanalyze her.
I thjnk what they were going for is a bigoted puppeteer in need of martyrs for her cause (hence turning on Judy). As such, if you overanalyze you'd see she would order out hits on predators that would consistently put prey at risk. She almost feels contrasted with that Mafia mole family. Both ordering hits, but one puts their name a little more on the order.
She was poorly played from the writing standpoint, but i cant deny her actions and goals ARE there, and interesting to me. Just poorly conveyed. Almost in a way more befitting an epic drama mystery. Which I guess Zootopia was trying to be. But that part felt sidelined too much for comedy and to keep it a kid's film
Sorry if I came off as "that guy" last video. Love your analyses, buddy!
What annoys me with twist villains is the personality shift after the reveal. Any previous characterization is tossed aside, and suddenly they're a cold calculating sadistic monster. Capable of upholding a great act, fooling everyone, potentially for years.
Zootopia is a crime mystery, a twist villain is practically necessary, but they really half baked this one.
I liked Bell better before the reveal.
Zootopia is a fine movie but writing wise you could fill a bucket with all the balls they dropped.
What ruins her for me is hearing Tammy from Bob's Burgers. The lady is a brilliant voice actress just, I can only hear an insecure middleschool girl.
Great vid, couple editing notes... less animations and no noises for every single transition. It's distracting.
Bellwether was right in a sense that a Utopia cannot exist; we cannot all live as one on this planet in peace and harmony.
We need a little discord and chaos to counter act with the peace and harmony. There is no Utopia on planet earth so Lennon is wrong
Dang, he's covering Beastars?
As much as I love Zootopia in fact, it’s my second favorite Disney movie and I am very excited for the sequel. I do agree with you that Bellweather is one of the worst twist villains Disney has ever done.
Turbo was a perfect twist villain
It's an amazing good movie. Far better than I expected. Except for Bellwether. They reveled her true colors... too late!
Something I wanna know is...what actually qualifies as "predator" and "prey"?
Because last I checked...Buffalo and Rhinos don't hunt and kill other animals to eat(For the most part...) they eat vegetables and berries...and lions would try to hunt Buffalo...
So wouldn't Buffalo technically be considered "prey"? Which means that not all prey are small and helpless.
heck aren't ELEPHANTS prey to some creatures? They're the biggest land animal today, but are they classified as "predator" in this movie for some reason?
I don't honestly get it really.