As a solar expert with 15 years of experience in installations, I have a 10.8kW system composed of 47 south-facing 13 year old panels with an efficiency of 15%. Here are some performance metrics: - In March, the highest yield was on the 9th with 43kWh, compared to 24kWh on the 30th. - In June, the peak yield was on the 29th with 56kWh, closely followed by 55kWh on the 22nd. - The total yield for June was 1140kWh. 9.473 kWh per Watt for the Month of June. At that time, I believe the panels were approximately £2.20 per watt for wholesale, in contrast to around 10p per watt today.
A few years ago I needed a new roof. I had a natural slate one fitted. I then contacted many different solar suppliers, only to be turned down because of having natural slate tiles. I think they were worried about breaking them, even though I told them I had loads of spare ones. On the back of one of EVM's previous videos I contacted Heatable. I was pleasantly surprised when they said the would fit solar to my roof. They did it in a day (17 panels, South facing) and I've been very please with the result. Thankyou Ben and team, and Andy and Harry for creating the video in the first place.
That’s actually very useful. All the videos I’ve seen from heatable (including this one) try to sell you “the most efficient panel” or the “best inverter” or the “tailored design”. Good workmanship is paramount (imho)
@@PropertyAtAuction Australia's second largest city, Melbourne, can be very cloudy in winter. Except for significantly hotter summers, the climate isn't wildly different to southern England.
As you work for givenergy you could have a chat with the firmware team and ask for a lower start up voltage firmware. Effectively limiting your inverter to benefit from lower light. Though Harry's system should still be ahead due to micro inverters effectively optimising each panel. But alternative firmware could benefit you. Not something they would offer to the public but you have special access and the guys are really good who run the firmware beta program and EMS program.
A different angle pitch on your roofs could explain the swing from winter to summer. Also if a panel is rated at 430w it does not mean that 430w is it's maximum. Simply 430w is what it will produce under standard test conditions. I have seen my 430w panels regularly kick out over 460w and I live in Cheshire.
Very well said. Comparing my system to a neighbour’s, confirms that. We have same panels and same microinverters. My system is facing south 180deg and the roof pitch is 50deg. The other system 165deg SE and pitch 30deg. On the best day in December my system produces 100% more, whereas in June produces 10% less.
As a comparison, my 3.25 KWp east-west array (3.5 KW inverter and 10 x 325 Watt Solar Edge optimisers on type N panels) located in wet central Scotland has achieved either side of 2,400 units per year. Typical March and June production is 175 and 390 units respectively, but this varies wildly as it never seems to stop raining and when it does we have thick low cloud that blocks out the sky!
There's a lot of discussion in this video regarding Heatable putting huge amounts of effort into designing thing for specific locations & setups. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't their current strategy to install the same REA panels and Enphase IQ8AC on every install they do everywhere across the UK? They were doing IQ7 and a particular wattage of panel and they've naturally upgraded as time ha gone on and their stock has been updated with the newer stuff, but really, I got the impression they just stock huge amounts of the same kit and put it on all the installs. Sometimes that's done with subcontractors who haven't really got a clue what they're doing (as was in my own personal case).
@@MrSeanUK My brother has a different brand inverter entirely and slightly different model. 🤷♂️ Plus it’s about premium installs vs off the shelf, not off the shelf vs heatable.
@@ElectricVehicleMan I guess they done a special deal for the circumstances there. I thought that for people ordering direct via the website that the offering is pretty static and not at all bespoke, happy to be proven wrong.
@@MrSeanUK Hey Sean, we only fit the REA Fusion 2 panels as we believe they're the best that there is on the current market. However, we offer different batteries and set ups dependant on what the client is looking for / how much energy they use.
This is a brilliant video, what seems a very simple thing, is actually a pretty complicated thing and turns out is actually pretty simple and complicated at the same time.
2024 has been rubbish for 'sunny' days . I've had my install since Aug 2018 . And this Feb March April May have been the lowest monthly totals since 2019- June 517kWh was the 2nd worst since 2020 (474kWh) best (2021 644kWh). Absolutely I would favour a more efficient panel that would make best use of less sun ( Rochdale) . Annually we average 3.8MWh - 4.01MWh . 15 300w Perlight mono black+ 4.5KW through a 3.86mkwh Solar edge inverter. SSW facing. Look forward to the regular updates.
This is something I wish I’d known at my installation point in January this year. My 4.4 kW array is so disappointing, and yesterday one of the best days of the year not a cloud in the sky I only peaked about 3.6 kW because it was so warm the panels just didn’t perform at all well. On Monday in February I only got 200 W out of the system all day.
Interesting discussion, but doesn't really apply to me. I recently added my own solar. We have load shedding (6hrs on, 12hrs off) so I needed batteries too. Batteries are about half the cost (no labor because I did it myself). Although panel placement is important, and I could get more power by tilting them and placing them better, it makes more sense for me to just add a few more panels, as they are relatively cheap. Right now my problem is I get too much power and am throwing it away because I don't yet have enough batteries. That will change once I have more batteries and I will need more power in the summer (air conditioning will be most of my usage).
This is quite similar to what my parents have. They've got 375W panels that are better at lower light with 290W Enphase micro inverters. They've got 12 so 4.5kW of panels and 3.48kW inverter max.
It would be nice to have a "cost per KWH" for the 2 systems. As the time goes by, the more "expensive" system should end up with a cheaper cost per kwh?
Is this comparing the same technology type, i.e. is it a type n panel which works better in lower light levels which wouldn't be considered a premium panel and assuming the other panel is not bifacial? Just so i know what are comparing as i am looking into solar but not sure on bifacial as of yet
They're completely different technologies, but this guy doesn't know anything about solar PV so relies totally on the Heatable marketing spiel. This video is just two idiots sitting on a sofa pretending like they know what they're talking about.
6 years in and the technology has changed a lot. Going back in time I would have changed to a different manufacturer. Having said that the install does produce a good yield.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Ah I see thanks. A friend has got those panels, but he went for the string inverter. I'm like you, 'traditional' panels (albeit 22 degrees off dead South) but with his less number of panels (some north facing some south) they are really boxing above their weight.
I installed my 13 panels 430 bifacial panels for £12.5k, heatable quote is £14,500, panels are oriented NW and SE, not ideal location but that is where my roof faces, I have a GivEnergy AIO battery plus inverter. In March I generated 688, whereas the guys got around 400KWh, I have a single inverter with a startup voltage of 80v, this is typical for an inverter not 200V as previously mentioned. I appreciate my location is further south, but the weather has been appalling. I would prefer since the guys have one of each panel, to do a side by side comparison rather than comparing two roofs at two different locations, with one using very cheap panels, you can get a bifacial panel for less than £90, . Any solar company worth their salt will give you the right advice for your location, and you will save yourself the best part of £2k. Heatable may not do the hard sell by knocking on doors but they make it sound like rocket science when there are also lots of disadvantages when using optimisers and locally installed inverters per panel, the more electronics the higher the risk of failure and installing a scaffold would wipe any suggested savings for years, whereas statistically failure rate of panels is extremely low, and while there is an argument that optimisers may give you a few extra watts, the cost and risk is probably not worth it unless you have major issues with shading
There are several things wrong here: 1) Heatable, the sponsor, is being reviewed favourably. 2) Heatable, while offering excellent panel and inverter brands, sabotage their own installations by 1) Not painting the roof area behind the panels white, which is essential to capitalize on the "albedo" effect and 2) Equipping lower tier versions of the Enphase Microinverters instead of the IQ8X or IQ8HC which can handle more peak power. 3) It's not okay to buy cheap Chinese kit only for it to end up as premature landfill
I don’t understand the micro inverter part. So Harry had a lower number. Which seemed to mean he’d be expected to yield less solar? Is there not an inverter that can operate at lower light AND have a higher maximum? If Harry is winning at low light why can’t he have had a “better” inverter and win on very sunny days too?
Inverters have there best efficency at maximum power. If you match the size of inverter too you solarpanels you get the best efficeny during summer, when you have too much power anyway. Having a "smaller" inverter means it still runs at high efficency when you have less sun. But you lose some power during summer. You are sacrificy power during summer to get more during bad weather. Also smaller inverters are cheaper.
everyone with solar needs more on less sunny days, or at night etc... because no one can store the excess on those extreamly sunny days. Over panel by 10% and install a bit more of the cheap panels, and I think you'd beat still the expensive setup.
Inverters don’t activate until you hit a certain level of generation, so having a higher level before they start doing anything in a dull environment will get you less over the year. It’s not just about panels.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Not quite right... Its the voltage (not generation) they need to reach...but mustn't exceed max for invertor on cold winter days once the V is reached then "generation" as you say can start with the invertor finding best point on curve with mppt to find that and then start generatoring. Adding more panels in series or matching better the VOC of a panel and how many in series is what every install should do, but dosn't :)
@@ElectricVehicleMana Solar PV system does not start to generate ( deliver watts which is voltage x current) until the inverter “wakes up”. It is the voltage level when it reaches a certain point that wakes up the inverter so it starts to generate. It is this bit of the system design that determines when a Solar PV system starts generating. You manipulate the system wake up voltage by inverter selection (some inverter designs have a much lower wake up voltage than others) and how you configure the solar oanels ( series vs parallel) in series connection each panel adds to the others so you reach the wake up voltage earlier in the day with lower light but need to take care you do not exceed the maximum input voltage of the DC link capacitors in the Inverter. Hope this helps.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Generation usually we're talking about power usable... a voltage existing someone like VOC isn't generation... until you put a load mppt on the voltage (which then changes) and generates power.... so no...
Why on earth didn't you go for batteries? On cloudy winter days you'll still generate absolutely nothing, but you'd be able to buy in cheap overnight electricity and use that instead of solar...
So when I buy a 5 seater car instead of a 4 seater car, I'm designing the car? I wouldn't say so, I'm selecting or specifying an off-the-shelf product. In my view, calling it a design, or bespoke, is incorrect. To my knowledge heatable only use one type of panel. They're just installing their default product which happens to be different to other panels
Biggest problem with solar installers and Heatable are the same. Their wretched web sites and auto quotes. Tried it out and they offer a few variations but not what you talk about, or what I want. I am sick of this process. I want to tell them I want X and get a basic quote. What is the point of taking all this trouble to learn about solar and batteries if no one lets you specify what you want!? Ok Fair enough if on doing a real human survey something is not possible does not fit etc. THEN is the time to have them explain and talk about options. Heatable's random quote offer with PW3 is without microinverters, but we all know AC coupled is still perfectly possible and better for E/W.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Yes I get that people want a ball park number especially if they have no idea at all. But it really is not hard to have an option to either contact directly so you can send a list of expectations and even prepared photos or other info. Or have a configurator of a system like you can build your own pc selecting bits for each part. Sorry, just very frustrated and put off. lol. Edit, I just found a contact us link for heatable. Which does not give the e-mail, no that would be too useful and easy! It wants to open an e-mail account and presumably fill in the address itself. Basically too clever and show off rather than simple straight info, unbelievable. (Ok my fault for not being a clone drone like all others, I happen to prefer doing e-mails on a different machine, but AGhhhhh)
@@nicholaspostlethwaite9554 That’s completely different, a PC is all components and that varies the pricing. With Solar it’s mainly labour costs, scaffolding etc. That cannot be done generically. You’re wanting a fixed priced without contact, can’t have it both ways. The email is fine, it puts the address in your client for you? How can that be a bad thing if you’re wanting to email them? Clearly nothing will do.
Do you think you could ask the other guy not to keep talking across you? Usually if I see he's involved I just don't watch, but this one I was particularly interested in…
@@ElectricVehicleMan Don't be so obtuse. You manage your side of the conversation without constantly talking across him; I'm just suggesting you ask him to do the same… it's kinda entry level adulting. But OK: your choice what you make; my choice what I watch.
Do you mind making your video to my exact specifications please. If you could use less pastel colours and also move your voice a couple of notes higher, that would be great 😂 listen fella, you have the right to find his friend annoying but he didn't involve him as a way of expanding his viewer count like some YT guys get other popular YT guys on, he is a mate with a similar product for comparison. Be humble ❤
@@davidwade4594 It was intended as a constructive suggestion. But you go ahead and get arsey if that's your thing… when you've finished being humble, of course
9-13 grand outlay to save 70 quid a month in energy is INSANE. Only 70% reduction in electricity bills is shit. That would take 15.4 years to pay for itself at the 13k install cost for my house and that doesnt include scaffolding 🤣 If you took that 13 grand and bought stocks SP500 in an tax free isa you would have 74 grand in 15.4 years. They really should teach finance in schools because if they did you wouldnt see all these houses with solar panels on them. 😂 Ive not even factored the 10% interest in this either. The 0% requires a 50% deposit also.
@@ElectricVehicleMan I just did their heatable quote online for my roof. Just because your shoe box has a small install doesn’t mean other people don’t have bigger houses. My roof they claim can support 22 panels but this was only for 11 panels. Also those enphase inverters I’ve heard are a liability. They replace them free but the labour isn’t included. How you plan on fixing them? More scaffolding? You’re talking to a person who finances green tech commercial installations and the only reason they make sense is because of carbon credits and other bullshit like that. These domestic installs are comical. High install costs and low output never makes financial sense. We can install 100 panels in a field with much higher output for the cost these guys want for 11 panels due to the over priced install costs due to scaffolding. We can install 50 on a commercial building cheaper than these guys install 11 on my roof. This is a money making racket. This isn’t economics. I dare you to argue with me on this. You won’t stand a chance.
@@ElectricVehicleMan ok I just went to your sponsor. Put in my electric use from my bill. 4800kwh. They said my optimum install was 11 panels with micro inverters. £9000 with no battery and £13k with a Tesla battery. Only 72% energy reduction with battery or 52% with no battery. So my £100 a month energy bill would at best save me £70 a month. So then you divide the £70 by the £13000 or £50 by the £9000 which means I’m looking at as bad as 15 years to get my money back but I’ve lost 15 years of stock market returns to break even. As I said I finance commercial solar and I see payback in much less time. These domestic installs make no sense at all. Especially when finance costs are so high currently.
A battery will save you more than the panels with a time of day tariff, are you including that? You mention energy reduction, are you factoring in export 'gains' as well? I work for a battery manufacturer who installs commercial systems well into MWh of size alongside solar arrays so I'm happy to go toe to toe on this, on a technical level as well as financial. As for my shoe box, the velux windows I have preclude my 14 panel system from becoming a 24 panel system. We can compare garages and cinema rooms later.
@Solarwatt TOPCON ~ excellent panels my system generated >1.1MWh last month on a 8.7kWp with 2 x 3.68kW inverters ~ so pleased with Eco Energy Environment Ltd
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
As a solar expert with 15 years of experience in installations, I have a 10.8kW system composed of 47 south-facing 13 year old panels with an efficiency of 15%. Here are some performance metrics:
- In March, the highest yield was on the 9th with 43kWh, compared to 24kWh on the 30th.
- In June, the peak yield was on the 29th with 56kWh, closely followed by 55kWh on the 22nd.
- The total yield for June was 1140kWh.
9.473 kWh per Watt for the Month of June.
At that time, I believe the panels were approximately £2.20 per watt for wholesale, in contrast to around 10p per watt today.
Decent production even for brand new equipment. Have you ever had an inverter failure?
A few years ago I needed a new roof. I had a natural slate one fitted. I then contacted many different solar suppliers, only to be turned down because of having natural slate tiles. I think they were worried about breaking them, even though I told them I had loads of spare ones. On the back of one of EVM's previous videos I contacted Heatable. I was pleasantly surprised when they said the would fit solar to my roof. They did it in a day (17 panels, South facing) and I've been very please with the result. Thankyou Ben and team, and Andy and Harry for creating the video in the first place.
That’s actually very useful. All the videos I’ve seen from heatable (including this one) try to sell you “the most efficient panel” or the “best inverter” or the “tailored design”. Good workmanship is paramount (imho)
From my understanding they seem to be solar panels geared towards overcast countries. Which makes absolute sense for Britain.
Created by an Australian firm which is a place I don't associate with cloudy days 😂
@@PropertyAtAuction Australia's second largest city, Melbourne, can be very cloudy in winter. Except for significantly hotter summers, the climate isn't wildly different to southern England.
@@sjwright2 I did not know that... You live and learn.
As you work for givenergy you could have a chat with the firmware team and ask for a lower start up voltage firmware. Effectively limiting your inverter to benefit from lower light. Though Harry's system should still be ahead due to micro inverters effectively optimising each panel. But alternative firmware could benefit you. Not something they would offer to the public but you have special access and the guys are really good who run the firmware beta program and EMS program.
Thank you. I have been waiting for this video/ data
A different angle pitch on your roofs could explain the swing from winter to summer. Also if a panel is rated at 430w it does not mean that 430w is it's maximum. Simply 430w is what it will produce under standard test conditions. I have seen my 430w panels regularly kick out over 460w and I live in Cheshire.
Very well said.
Comparing my system to a neighbour’s, confirms that. We have same panels and same microinverters. My system is facing south 180deg and the roof pitch is 50deg. The other system 165deg SE and pitch 30deg.
On the best day in December my system produces 100% more, whereas in June produces 10% less.
Literarily the exact comparison I've been looking for as I look at options and I'm also based up north so this will be representative for me. Nice!
As a comparison, my 3.25 KWp east-west array (3.5 KW inverter and 10 x 325 Watt Solar Edge optimisers on type N panels) located in wet central Scotland has achieved either side of 2,400 units per year.
Typical March and June production is 175 and 390 units respectively, but this varies wildly as it never seems to stop raining and when it does we have thick low cloud that blocks out the sky!
There's a lot of discussion in this video regarding Heatable putting huge amounts of effort into designing thing for specific locations & setups.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't their current strategy to install the same REA panels and Enphase IQ8AC on every install they do everywhere across the UK?
They were doing IQ7 and a particular wattage of panel and they've naturally upgraded as time ha gone on and their stock has been updated with the newer stuff, but really, I got the impression they just stock huge amounts of the same kit and put it on all the installs.
Sometimes that's done with subcontractors who haven't really got a clue what they're doing (as was in my own personal case).
@@MrSeanUK My brother has a different brand inverter entirely and slightly different model. 🤷♂️
Plus it’s about premium installs vs off the shelf, not off the shelf vs heatable.
@@ElectricVehicleMan I guess they done a special deal for the circumstances there. I thought that for people ordering direct via the website that the offering is pretty static and not at all bespoke, happy to be proven wrong.
@@MrSeanUK Look at the different batteries they offer, they have to have different options
@@MrSeanUK Hey Sean, we only fit the REA Fusion 2 panels as we believe they're the best that there is on the current market. However, we offer different batteries and set ups dependant on what the client is looking for / how much energy they use.
@ElectricVehicleMan
Thanks very much for the data. Appreciate you putting this together
This is a brilliant video, what seems a very simple thing, is actually a pretty complicated thing and turns out is actually pretty simple and complicated at the same time.
This is a particularly interesting vid, good on Harry doing the research for his scheme.
I’ve been waiting for this update, cheers
2024 has been rubbish for 'sunny' days . I've had my install since Aug 2018 . And this Feb March April May have been the lowest monthly totals since 2019- June 517kWh was the 2nd worst since 2020 (474kWh) best (2021 644kWh).
Absolutely I would favour a more efficient panel that would make best use of less sun ( Rochdale) .
Annually we average 3.8MWh - 4.01MWh . 15 300w Perlight mono black+ 4.5KW through a 3.86mkwh Solar edge inverter. SSW facing.
Look forward to the regular updates.
10:10 just like the power curve on a car Dyno it’s all about the area below the line the bigger the area the better.
Would be really good to see the 15 minute or hourly generation on a day to see when both sets are generating electricity and not as a comparison
This is something I wish I’d known at my installation point in January this year.
My 4.4 kW array is so disappointing, and yesterday one of the best days of the year not a cloud in the sky I only peaked about 3.6 kW because it was so warm the panels just didn’t perform at all well. On Monday in February I only got 200 W out of the system all day.
Interesting discussion, but doesn't really apply to me. I recently added my own solar. We have load shedding (6hrs on, 12hrs off) so I needed batteries too. Batteries are about half the cost (no labor because I did it myself). Although panel placement is important, and I could get more power by tilting them and placing them better, it makes more sense for me to just add a few more panels, as they are relatively cheap. Right now my problem is I get too much power and am throwing it away because I don't yet have enough batteries. That will change once I have more batteries and I will need more power in the summer (air conditioning will be most of my usage).
This is quite similar to what my parents have. They've got 375W panels that are better at lower light with 290W Enphase micro inverters. They've got 12 so 4.5kW of panels and 3.48kW inverter max.
been waiting for this follow up. good info.
It would be nice to have a "cost per KWH" for the 2 systems. As the time goes by, the more "expensive" system should end up with a cheaper cost per kwh?
Really wondering what winter performance will be like.
horrible
Is this comparing the same technology type, i.e. is it a type n panel which works better in lower light levels which wouldn't be considered a premium panel and assuming the other panel is not bifacial?
Just so i know what are comparing as i am looking into solar but not sure on bifacial as of yet
They're completely different technologies, but this guy doesn't know anything about solar PV so relies totally on the Heatable marketing spiel. This video is just two idiots sitting on a sofa pretending like they know what they're talking about.
@@VinoVeritas_ thanks for confirming it wasn't the same types
6 years in and the technology has changed a lot. Going back in time I would have changed to a different manufacturer. Having said that the install does produce a good yield.
Are there any companies selling 2nd hand panels i want to make a shed system before i commit to the price of a house system
Look on eBay.
Panels are cheap to buy new, it's the labour that's the big expense.
New panels from City plumbing are cheaper & better than some are asking for with their used panels. Avoid used.
Glad you did the video, thanks
Is there a case for a mix and match of panels to get the best (or worst) of both worlds? 🤔
If you have a string inverter, then no. You shoud use the same panels on the same MPPT.
If you have micro inveters, you can mix and match.
Thanks for this one
Price of panels has halved in 3 years .
I brought a complete SolarEdge system with Battery. 8.4kw QCells with optimizers. Absolutely smashes my mates 9kw system
I’m waiting as the tech gets better before jumping.
Does one of the other videos show the cost to purchase difference.
Sorry you basically mention it at the end. My bad!
So can't the micro inverters be more closely matched to the panel max output wattage?
They’d then activate at a higher starting wattage. So you’d miss out on the duller parts of the year, early morning/late evening etc
@@ElectricVehicleMan Ah I see thanks. A friend has got those panels, but he went for the string inverter.
I'm like you, 'traditional' panels (albeit 22 degrees off dead South) but with his less number of panels (some north facing some south) they are really boxing above their weight.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Inverters don't require wattage to start up. They require a voltage. Your knowledge on anything to do with solar PV is awful.
@@VinoVeritas_
@@VinoVeritas_ Yep but he's got a nice video presense ? And sounds confident, thats what counts.
So what did it cost ?
I installed my 13 panels 430 bifacial panels for £12.5k, heatable quote is £14,500, panels are oriented NW and SE, not ideal location but that is where my roof faces, I have a GivEnergy AIO battery plus inverter. In March I generated 688, whereas the guys got around 400KWh, I have a single inverter with a startup voltage of 80v, this is typical for an inverter not 200V as previously mentioned. I appreciate my location is further south, but the weather has been appalling. I would prefer since the guys have one of each panel, to do a side by side comparison rather than comparing two roofs at two different locations, with one using very cheap panels, you can get a bifacial panel for less than £90, . Any solar company worth their salt will give you the right advice for your location, and you will save yourself the best part of £2k. Heatable may not do the hard sell by knocking on doors but they make it sound like rocket science when there are also lots of disadvantages when using optimisers and locally installed inverters per panel, the more electronics the higher the risk of failure and installing a scaffold would wipe any suggested savings for years, whereas statistically failure rate of panels is extremely low, and while there is an argument that optimisers may give you a few extra watts, the cost and risk is probably not worth it unless you have major issues with shading
There are several things wrong here:
1) Heatable, the sponsor, is being reviewed favourably.
2) Heatable, while offering excellent panel and inverter brands, sabotage their own installations by 1) Not painting the roof area behind the panels white, which is essential to capitalize on the "albedo" effect and 2) Equipping lower tier versions of the Enphase Microinverters instead of the IQ8X or IQ8HC which can handle more peak power.
3) It's not okay to buy cheap Chinese kit only for it to end up as premature landfill
@@singlendhot8628 You’ve clearly not watched this video.
I don’t understand the micro inverter part. So Harry had a lower number. Which seemed to mean he’d be expected to yield less solar? Is there not an inverter that can operate at lower light AND have a higher maximum? If Harry is winning at low light why can’t he have had a “better” inverter and win on very sunny days too?
The micro inverters are expensive, so the extra output from the low number of hours of peak sunshine in Yorkshire might not be cost effective. 🤔
Inverters have there best efficency at maximum power.
If you match the size of inverter too you solarpanels you get the best efficeny during summer, when you have too much power anyway.
Having a "smaller" inverter means it still runs at high efficency when you have less sun. But you lose some power during summer.
You are sacrificy power during summer to get more during bad weather. Also smaller inverters are cheaper.
I dont understand whats the exact difference? Is it the panel? Inverter? Both? Saying one is cheap and one is expensive doesn't tell you much at all.
everyone with solar needs more on less sunny days, or at night etc... because no one can store the excess on those extreamly sunny days. Over panel by 10% and install a bit more of the cheap panels, and I think you'd beat still the expensive setup.
Inverters don’t activate until you hit a certain level of generation, so having a higher level before they start doing anything in a dull environment will get you less over the year. It’s not just about panels.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Not quite right... Its the voltage (not generation) they need to reach...but mustn't exceed max for invertor on cold winter days once the V is reached then "generation" as you say can start with the invertor finding best point on curve with mppt to find that and then start generatoring. Adding more panels in series or matching better the VOC of a panel and how many in series is what every install should do, but dosn't :)
@@ndudman8 Doesn’t the voltage come from the generation?
@@ElectricVehicleMana Solar PV system does not start to generate ( deliver watts which is voltage x current) until the inverter “wakes up”. It is the voltage level when it reaches a certain point that wakes up the inverter so it starts to generate.
It is this bit of the system design that determines when a Solar PV system starts generating. You manipulate the system wake up voltage by inverter selection (some inverter designs have a much lower wake up voltage than others) and how you configure the solar oanels ( series vs parallel) in series connection each panel adds to the others so you reach the wake up voltage earlier in the day with lower light but need to take care you do not exceed the maximum input voltage of the DC link capacitors in the Inverter.
Hope this helps.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Generation usually we're talking about power usable... a voltage existing someone like VOC isn't generation... until you put a load mppt on the voltage (which then changes) and generates power.... so no...
Why on earth didn't you go for batteries? On cloudy winter days you'll still generate absolutely nothing, but you'd be able to buy in cheap overnight electricity and use that instead of solar...
@@rbe5579 He does have batteries. This is about solar.
And they do generate in winter.
Yorkshire , by gum your lucky living so far south :)
Some graphs would have made it easier to understand
@@ndrinta I’ve included graphs in the video.
11.40 "It was at this point that he realised he'd fucked up". (Think Morgan Freeman)
So when I buy a 5 seater car instead of a 4 seater car, I'm designing the car? I wouldn't say so, I'm selecting or specifying an off-the-shelf product. In my view, calling it a design, or bespoke, is incorrect. To my knowledge heatable only use one type of panel. They're just installing their default product which happens to be different to other panels
🙏
Levi’s come in other colours, not just dull😂
No one asked Harry his fav glove box??
In-your-end-o
Biggest problem with solar installers and Heatable are the same. Their wretched web sites and auto quotes. Tried it out and they offer a few variations but not what you talk about, or what I want. I am sick of this process. I want to tell them I want X and get a basic quote. What is the point of taking all this trouble to learn about solar and batteries if no one lets you specify what you want!? Ok Fair enough if on doing a real human survey something is not possible does not fit etc. THEN is the time to have them explain and talk about options.
Heatable's random quote offer with PW3 is without microinverters, but we all know AC coupled is still perfectly possible and better for E/W.
@@nicholaspostlethwaite9554 Try asking a joiner for a quote to install kitchens in different houses using an online tool.
Or a plumber etc.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Oh exactly the concept, and that they use it is ridiculous. Just because Google earth images exist we can have a guess.
@@nicholaspostlethwaite9554 People want a guess and hate contacting companies for the sales pitch. Damned if you do…..
@@ElectricVehicleMan Yes I get that people want a ball park number especially if they have no idea at all. But it really is not hard to have an option to either contact directly so you can send a list of expectations and even prepared photos or other info. Or have a configurator of a system like you can build your own pc selecting bits for each part. Sorry, just very frustrated and put off. lol.
Edit,
I just found a contact us link for heatable. Which does not give the e-mail, no that would be too useful and easy! It wants to open an e-mail account and presumably fill in the address itself. Basically too clever and show off rather than simple straight info, unbelievable. (Ok my fault for not being a clone drone like all others, I happen to prefer doing e-mails on a different machine, but AGhhhhh)
@@nicholaspostlethwaite9554 That’s completely different, a PC is all components and that varies the pricing.
With Solar it’s mainly labour costs, scaffolding etc.
That cannot be done generically.
You’re wanting a fixed priced without contact, can’t have it both ways.
The email is fine, it puts the address in your client for you? How can that be a bad thing if you’re wanting to email them?
Clearly nothing will do.
TLDR: "Do your homework"
Theres deals on pw3 and 8 panels installed for 10k currently. Likely poor budget panels but less capital outlay. Budget wins in that deal
Micro inverter are not worth the investment. See others, tests on these.
Do you think you could ask the other guy not to keep talking across you? Usually if I see he's involved I just don't watch, but this one I was particularly interested in…
@@markiliff it’s a two way conversation, not a scripted movie.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Don't be so obtuse. You manage your side of the conversation without constantly talking across him; I'm just suggesting you ask him to do the same… it's kinda entry level adulting. But OK: your choice what you make; my choice what I watch.
@@markiliff you’re the only one to mention in of thousands. It’s not a thing.
Do you mind making your video to my exact specifications please. If you could use less pastel colours and also move your voice a couple of notes higher, that would be great 😂 listen fella, you have the right to find his friend annoying but he didn't involve him as a way of expanding his viewer count like some YT guys get other popular YT guys on, he is a mate with a similar product for comparison. Be humble ❤
@@davidwade4594 It was intended as a constructive suggestion. But you go ahead and get arsey if that's your thing… when you've finished being humble, of course
9-13 grand outlay to save 70 quid a month in energy is INSANE. Only 70% reduction in electricity bills is shit. That would take 15.4 years to pay for itself at the 13k install cost for my house and that doesnt include scaffolding 🤣 If you took that 13 grand and bought stocks SP500 in an tax free isa you would have 74 grand in 15.4 years. They really should teach finance in schools because if they did you wouldnt see all these houses with solar panels on them. 😂 Ive not even factored the 10% interest in this either. The 0% requires a 50% deposit also.
@@mattx4253 Where on earth are you getting 9-13 grand from!
I paid less than £5k!
They should teach finance in schools indeed.
@@ElectricVehicleMan I just did their heatable quote online for my roof. Just because your shoe box has a small install doesn’t mean other people don’t have bigger houses. My roof they claim can support 22 panels but this was only for 11 panels. Also those enphase inverters I’ve heard are a liability. They replace them free but the labour isn’t included. How you plan on fixing them? More scaffolding? You’re talking to a person who finances green tech commercial installations and the only reason they make sense is because of carbon credits and other bullshit like that. These domestic installs are comical. High install costs and low output never makes financial sense. We can install 100 panels in a field with much higher output for the cost these guys want for 11 panels due to the over priced install costs due to scaffolding. We can install 50 on a commercial building cheaper than these guys install 11 on my roof. This is a money making racket. This isn’t economics. I dare you to argue with me on this. You won’t stand a chance.
@@mattx4253 I dare you? What are you? 4 years old!
Where did you get £70 per month saving from.
Break it down for me.
@@ElectricVehicleMan ok I just went to your sponsor. Put in my electric use from my bill. 4800kwh. They said my optimum install was 11 panels with micro inverters. £9000 with no battery and £13k with a Tesla battery. Only 72% energy reduction with battery or 52% with no battery. So my £100 a month energy bill would at best save me £70 a month. So then you divide the £70 by the £13000 or £50 by the £9000 which means I’m looking at as bad as 15 years to get my money back but I’ve lost 15 years of stock market returns to break even. As I said I finance commercial solar and I see payback in much less time. These domestic installs make no sense at all. Especially when finance costs are so high currently.
A battery will save you more than the panels with a time of day tariff, are you including that?
You mention energy reduction, are you factoring in export 'gains' as well?
I work for a battery manufacturer who installs commercial systems well into MWh of size alongside solar arrays so I'm happy to go toe to toe on this, on a technical level as well as financial.
As for my shoe box, the velux windows I have preclude my 14 panel system from becoming a 24 panel system. We can compare garages and cinema rooms later.
@Solarwatt TOPCON ~ excellent panels my system generated >1.1MWh last month on a 8.7kWp with 2 x 3.68kW inverters ~ so pleased with Eco Energy Environment Ltd
Yorkshire tea ☕️ only for Yorkshire folk 🫖☕️