Check out the multiple time 🏆North American Champion’s Book! 🏆(amzn.to/3mJZTXH) Change how you think about Catan, your opponents, and level up your play!
I checked that there was only one official CATAN Americana Championship, and its not won by Mark Oxer, www.catan.com/tournaments-events/catan-championships/cac-nation-rankings#cac-2019
Hey I'm gonna buy it but 2 questions 1) Are there sufficient illustrations/ pictures or only text? 2) How about the Kindle version? I have Kindle gift card which is in USD exclusively but I live in Canada. What should I do?
@@DyLightedCatan yeah good talking is far more than just trading ressoures. Getting friends without directly betraying them can be far more benefitial.
Wow, these plays are getting more and more big-brained! It's amazing to see Dylan back in action with these high level strategies, you've earned a sub for sure.
One of my favourite things about this channel is how up front he is about algorithm etc- it's so refreshing to hear someone just be real about it and straight up ask for some support
Awesome stuff Dylan! Great new animations, I think they add a ton of value to your content. I can also confirm he used the saying at the end of the video and didn't pull that out of this air.
First off you are super great to do this for everyone. Bringing light to the depths of strategy to Catan is huge, thank you. The book seems like a sweet idea and a good gift. Now the important stuff. I’ll say you are doing this to open minds, give ideas, share potential strategies and we should take these as suggestions and not “the best play possible”. If you see them as “the correct moves and anything different is subpar” then here are some thoughts. Scenario 1: letting green have the 6/9 wheat and the 3:1 port when they have a 5/8 sheep/stone is too good. It’s better for everyone if green takes the 9/10 stone/wheat. As far as where you should then place, the 9/11/4 seems like the best spot. Letting blue take the 6/2 wheat/sheep means they will get robbed. And yeah your future 9 stone gets blocked but trade green the wheats they won’t have from their 10 getting blocked and you have plenty from double up on the 9. Or you know trade black because we haven’t talked about them and that makes them the weak position idk. Heck 8 could go blank the whole game and 6 rolls so blue wins. Scenario 2: you did note “for this video“ so I assume you were asking for leniency here. You need to place at the 5/9/10 b/c the 8/4/2 only gives you four unique numbers, even after you expand to the brick/sheep or stone port. Feast or famine sure but not in a high stakes game right, you want to be balanced? 5/9/10 is objectively better for you. It’s strong o-w-s, double the 5, you get a 3:1 port and you get 5 unique numbers. Then 6 and 7 once you get the 2 and 4 off the 3:1/brick ports respectively. I also don’t think there’s that much danger in black eating the Bridgeport. You mentioned if I four rolls they could use the double road and cut you off but that is there only one number and yes it’s possible but I think everyone would be willing to risk it. Black could roll at seven and try to steal from blue/red to get a brick but in total that is a 2/6 chance. Again risk it. Additionally I don’t see how black is beating green to the 5/9/2 and red to the 8/4. Green will focus on getting to the sheep port first while black focuses on the 8/4 first per your suggestion. If they don’t then they then focus on the 5/9/2 first which gives red the time to focus on the 8/4. You didn’t really say black would get both but trying to emphasize their potential. Scenario 3: naturally I thought you would extort green and didn’t even pay attention to red. Thanks for adding a potential no response scenario because I personally think people won’t make deals. I probably lack persuasive ability. Objectively it’s better to do the 6/4/2 B/C green getting that port and getting the spot is bonkers good. If you don’t settle there that seems like green has the game. Curious to what you would say a player would realistically give you from the start of the game that is more than two cards? I forgot your wording specifically but you leaned into the idea of leveraging a lot from your opponents. Would someone really give you their starting three cards just to not settle in a particular spot? If you think of it over the course of a game is that spot worth three cards to them, well sure it will likely produce more than three cards for them not to mention of points from that spot due to trades and settling etc. So the person gives you three cards not to go there, but how much more do you think you could get from them? Their next _ resource? Not to rob you the first time they can rob someone; but what if you aren’t the person worth robbing anyways? Ask for a one time no denying trade with the emphasis it’s a 2:1 or 3:2 “fair” deal? Again just some thoughts. It’s crazy to think of every single move and direction a game can go at any given roll of the dice. Thanks for your videos and what you do for the game. See you at Nationals (assuming this vaccine helps and Origins happens).
Love all the thoughts Robert! This is a super long comment with a lot of thoughts/questions. I don’t think I meant in the video that any of these options were “correct,” but rather ideas to help you boost your game and give you an advantage. I know in a few years the game will advance farther than I can imagine and a lot of the things we think are “correct” will have better options.
@@DyLightedCatan I didn’t think you thought these were the best/correct options, just when we break them down there seemed to be ideas and questions to discuss but again you are doing this for many levels of players and that is great.
decision at 7:14: I would consider taking the 10/8, but not the port spot as the ore port isn't worth it. this is for the instant free road to cut purple off to the 3/4. You can probably beat blue to the settlement here because they have no wheat and you have higher production to 4:1 brick for that missing sheep. This not only cripples both blue and purple but this would set you up for a strong LR game with plenty of space to expand on the right hand side and have lots of brick for the brick port. my other thought would be the 6/4/2 to cut green off and get the missing sheep for a ore/wheat/sheep game. then you goal would be to get the wheat port so you can trade for the missing resources. personally I prefer the first option, but I shall now play the video and see what you thought.
Yea it hinges all on table talk as most competitive games involve it. The game changes when you can talk with your opponents. It’s a completely different game.
In the third scenario, we can extort blue by threatening to take the 3/4/11, locking them out of wheat. The better play is to take the 6/4/2 since if green gets their hand on sheep, it's very strong. But since you're lacking wood, you can demand that as their first trade, you give blue a wheat (maybe wheat+sheep if they're reluctant) for a road so that you can cut green off to the sheep port. Edit: Oh, well, half right I guess!
@@DyLightedCatan I am wondering how often does this backfire by the player actually not trading you in the first round after initially accepting the deal. And how to act on this.
@@sifly4331 I am curious if this has ever happened before in this scenario and what usually happens in a competitive scene when it does over table talk
@sifly I was wondering that as well. I personally am not looking to be in a competitive situation any time soon but if this happened with my friends I think they would be seen as a sort of a cheater. We would probably invalidate their win if they won or just make fun of them if they still didn’t win. That’s really just a scummy play but you’re right - sometimes in competition it is ‘anything it takes to win’. I would just hope that if someone repeatedly makes scummy plays like that, then the community wouldn’t support players like that.
This can be super useful. I’ve just started trying to apply defensive placements in my games, extortion is something I only really think about mid game as opposed to in the start. Thanks for the tips!
1:24 "Okay Green, if I leave you the 9/4/11, you're gonna take it right? 5 resources, good production, balanced roads... Especially if I go on the 4/11/Brickport, right? Like if you're gonna go for a defensive 9/10 placement against me, you're just kingmaking for Black who's not been making or hit by any defensive settlements. So let's just Black, you, and me play a normal game of Catan, you go on the 9/4/11, and I get the other brick and then the 9/10."
Ok yeah you've secured a much higher-producing spot with the same expansion spots, using a much riskier sounding incentivization and also using the trust that your promise has value. You are a bit slower than me on the brick for the 9/10 expansion though...
Great video. Hope to see more videos of you commenting on your gameplay/reasoning in games, as I love to hear your thoughts not only on single decisions (like in this video) but a series of decisions throughout the game and your gameplan. Thank you for your channel, I've been enjoying your content a lot and I'm glad you're back :)
This was very interesting. I actually made similar or even the exact same moves in every case but for different reasons. This game has incredible depth and strategy. So fun
This is a fantastic video. Wowowow. Never thought about an artificial road trade. My opponents are to dumb to take it. They just want to block me cause I’m the best
Greta video again! Really enjoyed your use of real-life scenarios as case evaluation almost like they do in chess. I will also check out that book, thanks for the suggestion!
Great video! As green in the first scenario, I definitely would have taken the deal to place on the 9-10-2 and cut off blue. This would make it so I thought you were the biggest threat in the game, however. But with how many 7s came up in our game, I see you winning the game with you just having so much production and every resource
3:31 Right now I don't have Wood, Brick, or Sheep yet, and I have a strong Ore/Wheat setup that could be complemented with strong Sheep. There's a lot of Wood and Brick on this map and 2 players have strong Road setups already, so I definitely want to go for OWS. If I take the 4/3/8, I'm gonna not have Wood but Wood is even more plentiful on this map than Brick, I'm gonna have a stronger OWS setup than Blue, and Blue's gonna struggle getting some Brick unless he wants to box himself in with the 11/4/5 when Green's probably gonna take the 10/9/11 or the 5/10/9. I have a great expansion spot with the last resource, a harbor, and good production, and I'm feeling pretty comfortable. I don't think Green or Blue wants to start on the 8/4/Brickport.
Oh yeah that pressure trade is a really strong improvement, with no concessions as we're getting the 4/3/8 either way. The odds of a 4 on the first 4 rolls are only 23%, but it's better to be safe. Even without trust in Green's word, this argument with inhibiting Black and getting twice as much production as Green gives up from the 11 Ore, this tabletalk will likely work. Great lesson!
Really love your videos! I really learn a lot from them. I almost got the 3rd scenario, but I didn't think further than pushing blue and didn't push green into a bidding war :O
Have you had a situation where a player seemingly agrees with your tabletalk demands but doesn't follow through? I.e. in the last example, blue agrees to trade his road for your wheat. You place on the 6-4-2, screwing over green, then when your turn/blue's turn comes along he doesn't trade you. In that case, you screw over green, and blue still gets on the 4-3. Big fan of your vids btw! Definitely has helped me get much better at Catan.
Thanks! Yes - that happened to me in tournament before. Always sort of sucks, but it can happen. I would say lying is probably the biggest counter to extortion.
@@DyLightedCatan on the other hand, players unintegrious don't tend to get offered trades later on, it usually doesn't pay off in the game and in general
I've watched every single one of your videos, and I can immediately tell the difference in quality here! You clearly have more focus on the content without having to worry about the editing. Here's a half-baked idea for a future video if you're interested: find a position in a game where either a pro player made a questionable decision or some other game where players would have differing opinions on what to do in that spot and have them provide arguments for their side. You could then have players play each position all the way out and see how that critical decision impacted the rest of the game. Another idea: I feel like you often have an intuitive sense of where the robber will be during games and how much that will affect the balance of resource distribution (from experience that other players might not have). Maybe you could show different board spreads and then analyze where the robber was in games (maybe play same board positions multiple times) and present that to viewers.
Thanks John! That was a lot to read. First, thank you for watching almost all my videos. I appreciate it. About the getting different pros, I definitely could do this! It sounds like a good idea but maybe a bit of work. Nothing wrong with that though!
My idea for the first chqllenge was to take the 4/8/desert spot. This way, you give green the 4/9/11 spot, allowing him to start strong, and opening the 9/10 port to yourself. This allows you to play a diverse game without looking threatning, playing for tye longest road with possible cities and dev cards.
Are these deals binding though? In scenario 3 lets say you're green. Why not say you'll sell the farm to screw over blue? Then just say, nah. I worry about placing suboptimally for an unbinding agreement. Regardless, these are great examples to think over!
Yes! That’s a great thought. It’s the single biggest counter to extortion. However most players don’t lie and it’s also sort of bad etiquette to lie. Though if you’re playing for a ton of money, then it’s understandable. But most games people are pretty trustworthy.
Wow this video is just AMAZING...King of the table talk! Wanna try it out but I'm super afraid of being targeted the rest of the game 😂 Looking forward to reading the book when it arrives January! 🤓
I thought this video was really cool - especially that last scenario where it seemed to me that neither the 3,4,11 nor the 6,4,2 were great spots in isolation; but coupled with the threat of hurting blue and green suddenly you are the one controlling the situation!
Really great examples, thanks so much for posting! A small question - how honest are people at high level tournaments? Fulfilling their end of the bargain later in the game is not part of the rules, is it? Sure, nobody would want to play with a liar in the future, but officially nothing would prevent them from registering for future tournaments, right?
Good question, most people I talk to are pretty truthful and will follow up on the deal. However only ever once in an actual tournament someone didn’t follow through on the deal, and I’ve done deals like this countless times.
They don't have to follow through with it. I think this makes situation 2 too risky for my personal tastes. However, people are generally honest for some reason so it will probably work out against most normal people since most people aren't playing logically.
It's awesome to see a game played with negotiations going like that!! At 5:29 you show us how to deal with difficult situation number 2. My question is: what if you put your 2nd settlement on 3/4/8 and green does NOT honor the deal. Are they allowed to? What would be the consequences of that?
For the last one, I would go on the 6,4,2 because you get the sheep you need plus you get a total of three wheats on the map while your near a wheat port
The last game is like "prisoners dilemma" for blue and green. In the long run, I think its best for neither of them to negotiate with you at all here. Blue is risking the most by being locked out of wheat, but he could turn to green and say "If we both dont negotiate with red, we can help out each other. If he places on 642, Ill help you cut him off. But if he places on 3411, i need x amount of wheat trades".
Yes!!! Not all players will see this though. In fact, most don’t and are pretty unfamiliar with these situations and simply bend to the pressure given to them.
I have a question that I don't think gets asked/talked about much. Is it bad manners/bad etiquette to propose a deal to a player and then fall back on that deal later on in the game? Example in this video: Let's say in situation 2, green agrees to take the 5/9/10 and trade a wood for brick at the start of the game (so red doesn't take 5/9/10), but as the game starts, green does not do this trade. I've seen a lot of these deals made, but I've never seen it broken. Just curious if there is etiquette around this.
Yes, it is very bad etiquette to not follow through on something you said. However strategically wise, this is the best counter to extortion. However most players don’t lie and follow through on their word.
Dang the 1st situation is BIG BRAIN. Blue is so done. The second situation, I would take the 5/9/10 in a heartbeat, but that setup is so strong I might get blocked non-stop during the game (8 ore is a robber magnet) and put me in a big disadvantage with no cities. Plus the outs are terrible (thank you desert). So the extortion tactic does make sense! The third situation, I initially thought of extorting Green for not putting on the 6/4/2, but didn't see that I could extort Blue too. Question: What happens if they initially agree to the deal but refuse to trade later, though?
Yea, so the weakness of extortion is people lying and not following through. Usually people are pretty trustworthy though but sometimes you encounter a situation where people lie. In games for money, don’t be surprised if people lie to you. It’s a sad truth but I personally try to never break the extortion deals I made.
Definitely agree on the second scenario, just take 5/9/10 and run with it. It looks like an untouchable setup but I’m guessing it did not work out that way 😏
3:41 So I head 3 options in mind. first I thought about the 4/5/11 bwo as it would guarantee to get to the port. then I thought if this is enough to win as I had no sheep so I looked for the good sheep spots. I saw 5/9/10 as the best spot, though it really lacks bricks for road building, also as I dont have bricks I dont really need the brick port. With this Im basically locked into the ows game and hoping to get enough bricks from someone else. I didnt thought about the 3/4/8 I think, as I was too focused over the 5/9/10. Or maybe I did, but fastly scrapped that as I would really need to get to the brick port for that to work out. so well, you found the way to secure the brick port so. One step ahead. or maybe another 20 because you basically locked out everyone else except for green which was the least likely to have a good game anyway.
Dylan, I have been introduced to Catan lately and I learn a lot from your videos. This one is a whole new layer. I understand, that those negotiated deals regarding initial placement, as well as the deals regarding being robbed, are not covered by the rules. What is the etiquette in high stakes tournaments? Are you expected to keep your word? What happens if you don't? In the cases described in this video you are in a strong negotiating position, but are there any means to make sure that the other side keeps their part of the deal?
Usually, most players follow through with their word. In higher stakes tournaments you can probably expect it to work less, depending on who you’re playing with. If they don’t keep their word it sucks for you, but it’s your job to incentive them to do so. If I think someone is sketchy and might break the deal, I’ll remind them the consequences of breaking a deal is 3 robber blocks/steal on them to give them a better incentive to follow through
Haha well when you extort them, you have to not treat it as pointing a gun at them. But rather doing a deal that helps both players out, this way you can maintain that healthy relationship in the game.
7:17 play: tell green that I will not go on the 624, blocking them out of their needed wheat and sheep to pair with higher ore rolls if they trade their brick with me. I then take the 3411 for access to the brick port
DylLighted for the 3rd scenario you forgot one key tip. That purple is Takeshi so you got on the 8-10 because you can't let him win after the Premier League Season 1 Final :)
For the third scenario, immediately I am attracted to the 3,4,11 because it patches up sheep and wood and strengthens wheat; but when I think of my eventual game plan, I don’t particularly like this setup for either dev cards or longest road. The strong wheat seems attractive but I fear that I would get the robber placed on me a lot. However, it looks like green will be in a strong position with an early expansion to the 6,4,3 and the 3:1 port. This idea of bargaining resources for starting placements is a little foreign to me. First, I didn’t recognize how much I could hurt blue with the 3,4,11. But your trade offer of cutting green off and building a road is really good. I couldn’t spot that.
another play i was considering for the 3rd situation was to threaten purple with potentially placing on the 8,10 wood brick and threatening to cut them off to the 4,3 wheat sheep in return for a good trade, before noticing blue's lack of wheat.
I don’t know if I’d ever be playing at a level like this with my friends but this is somewhat eye opening. Definitely given me some things to think about next time I play Catan. Actually I was just playing last night and thought my setup was dead to rights. But some lucky rolls and somehow ending on 7 sheep with a single number pulled out the win
7:04 I would place on the 6/2/4 and try to make an agreement with blue to trade my 2 starting wheats for wood and brick so I could cut off green to the sheep port.
In the cash tournaments you commentate on it’s used less frequently, but in something called the Premiere league, a group of high level players, it’s used very frequently.
Any chance you will do videos on Cities and Knights? Most of this strategies don't translate well into C&K. I think it will be a good mini-series (like 3 to 5 videos maybe?) as there are very few videos on here that discuss strategies for that expansion.
Nice video! One question though: What if blue agrees on the deal, but after you place and the game has started, refuses to trade with you? Since it's not a direct resource for recourse trade within a turn I don't believe there's any rules preventing this? Just asking because I had had this happen before.
6:57 The defensive settlement placement here would be the 2/6/4, blocking Green's best expansion spot and cutting him off Sheep. I could also go on the 10/8/Brickport, which gives me the strongest Road setup, good production, a pretty much ideal port, and I have enough expansion spots in the southeast. I can't extort a Sheep from Green though, as Green doesn't have Sheep yet... However, if a 9 or 10 rolls, I can ask for another Wood and cut off Purple to the 5 Sheep... idk I'm pretty stumped here, as I don't really see a use for the previous 2 lessons here
7 points of production without good road balance or OWS balance? That spot (4/3/11)... went pretty much over my head, I considered it briefly but I found it way too weak for me
I'm not convinced that either Green or Blue will hold their promise and actually trade me the road. All they have to do is sound more convincing than the other of the two for that one time, and then just never play me again
Hahaha yea. It’s pretty player dependent. If you know someone is pretty honest, then go ahead and take a deal with them. If you know someone has the potential to scam you, then don’t do it with them. I personally recommend building up a reputation that can be trusted and following through with your deals.
Very interesting thoughts. I never thought about the game in those terms, because I thought agreements such as these are not binding. I also thought that extortion such as "give me a material so I don't hit you with a robber" are against the rules. What is stopping the other players from not going through on the deal and you being stuck with sub-optimal placement? Is it the threat of you king-making?
Good questions! First off all of these are nonbinding, but most people follow their word. You can always arrange a punishment such as robbing the person 5 times. That’ll decrease the chance they screw you since you have the threat of gang robbing them back. Also, extortion is legal.
In the third scenario, would you ever think about taking the 8-10, point your road right, and then use that free road on your first turn to build down towards the 3-4-11? I know this doesn't use either strategy, and obviously it's risky because you then have to engage in a race with blue for that spot (or just the 3-4), but if your numbers hit and you win the race then it seems you could have really affected the game plans of both blue and purple. If no, is part of the reason because starting with sheep access is too important given your first placement?
you do love the color red tough but yeah for the first game the asnwer was obvious but i didn't get the reasoning good, the 2nd one i didn't get good either since i didn't see on the fact that you can screw over lime a for the 3rd one it's pretty interesting and one of them is screwed either way unless neither decide to take the deal and they help out each other instead
I am wondering if there is a way to counter the extortion tactic by attacking the person who is trying to extort. For example in the 3rd scenario, if I was green and red was proposing that deal to blue, I could counter offer to give my starting road to blue to backstab red’s extortion deal by giving blue two free roads to almost cut off red’s first settlement and work towards 912; assuming that red goes 642. Since red has no wood production, blue can get one more road to cut off red and go to 912. Also, green can get a road from production to cut off red to 63. Therefore, green and blue work together against red instead of being pitted against each other like a Saw situation. Only thing that may be bad is that blue breaking a deal is unethical. But red trying to extort may also be unethical as well. But then again, blue may also backstab green and stick with red’s original plan.
Hahah yep. This is where you can go into a rabbit hole of strategy and ways to approach it differently. This is why I love Catan and find it interesting.
Hi dylighted I got a question, we made some changes to the rules with my friends to make the game more "organic" -it is actually really good-, we made the 4:1 to be of any resource, for example 1sheep 1brick 1wood 1wheat for 1 sth -also applies to 3:1 ports, this way the game it is not that snowballeable for the players with very good starting and let you cut their leed by side movements and less resources to put on a trade with other players, we also tried out the possibility of borrowing resources from other players and the player giving you that set what you need to give in return and usually is as soon as you get those resources he asks for back, and if you win with borrowed resources you dont need to pay your debth cuz you scammed them, tell me your thoughts, we find those variations pretty fun and really good. What do you think about it?
It sounds really interesting, but I personally only play with the official tournaments rules. But I’d be interested in trying some new rules like this!
Actually paused to comment because you did such a good job of selling it- my answer is to black mail purple by threatening to take the 8/10 ore port. Instead, you should take the 6/3 sheep port on the condition that purple trades you their wood on the first turn of the game, allowing you to cut off green and build aggressively toward the 6/4/2 spot, effectively cutting green out of the game entirely. This gives you by far the strongest O/W/S setup on the board, while also preserving purple’s win condition with a longest road strategy
One thing I don't get with those strategies, how do you enforce them? in the second example, say that green agrees to the deal, you place your settlement and green goes ahead and say screw it, I'm taking the ore, what did you gain exactly? How can you make sure green honors the deal?
Last example. Haven't watched the answer yet. What I would do is I would go tell green That the 2/4/6 was looking juicy and that me taking it would be horrible for him or her. Then I would offer to settle in the 3/4/11 instead in exchange for one brick. That gives me two roads I can use to block blue from the port.
I place a comment in the valuable comment section as that will give DyLighted more opportunities with the rare RUclips algorithm resource. Then, I extort DyLighted to make more strategy content videos by clicking on the like button.
Hey Dyl, great video! In another video, I think it was the one with the 2018 world championship first settlement analyse, you said you'd link a playlist of interesting tournament games in the description, but I think you forgot it. Could you show me the link? I'd love to watch some more high level gameplay now I've watched most of your videos😅. Merry Christmas from Germany Bastian
You have to trust them, but you can also say “if you don’t follow through, I will be forced to rob you 5 consecutive times this game” as a scare tactic/punishment. This way they will be more incentivized to go through with the trade.
What happens if the opponents don't honor the deal though? For example is position number 3, imagine that blue agrees do to the deal with you. You place on 2,4,6, after which the game starts, and blue ignores you. You get screwed as green probably wins the race to the 6,3 spot, and blue is happy too, as he gets the space he needs for free. Isn't the risk of being in a bad spot after being lied to too high?
Cool! You can play Catan however you'd like, but in tournaments, this is totally legal but just nonbinding. Hope you still found the video useful though!
I know the end result probably doesn't change, but wouldn't it be better to open the bidding war right away in the last scenario? If you talk to either player first, I think you're screwing yourself. Say you talk to blue first and says no as you said. Green now has leverage over you because he knows that's not your ideal placement because of how you talked to blue about moving away from his spot. Or maybe if you open a bidding war right away there's a weird psychological thing where they both just decline and kinda turn on you? Just something to think about, great vids as always, love your content Dylan
@@DyLightedCatan Appreciate the reply! Love your work and everything you do for the Catan community and competitive scene! Happy to see you grow like you have and getting those sweet sweet endorsement deals, you deserve it all.
Check out the multiple time 🏆North American Champion’s Book! 🏆(amzn.to/3mJZTXH)
Change how you think about Catan, your opponents, and level up your play!
Thx for the recommendation! I read the book in the 30 minutes after I watched this video!
I checked that there was only one official CATAN Americana Championship, and its not won by Mark Oxer, www.catan.com/tournaments-events/catan-championships/cac-nation-rankings#cac-2019
Hey I'm gonna buy it but 2 questions 1) Are there sufficient illustrations/ pictures or only text? 2) How about the Kindle version? I have Kindle gift card which is in USD exclusively but I live in Canada. What should I do?
I've never thought about playing like this. This is advanced stuff indeed
Thanks Jacob!’
@@DyLightedCatan
yeah good talking is far more than just trading ressoures. Getting friends without directly betraying them can be far more benefitial.
Nah not really it’s not a binding trade
I can't imagine the extortion technique would go over well after just setting up a game with family, friends, or at a board game meet up. 😂
Hahah yea it doesn’t work well in casual games.
My family already hates my playing 😂🤓
@@DyLightedCatan if you tried that shit on me I’d agree to whatever trade and then not trade it to you lmao
Wow, these plays are getting more and more big-brained! It's amazing to see Dylan back in action with these high level strategies, you've earned a sub for sure.
Thanks Aaron! I appreciate it man! I’m glad I could earn your subscription!
One of my favourite things about this channel is how up front he is about algorithm etc- it's so refreshing to hear someone just be real about it and straight up ask for some support
I have no clue, but here is a comment for the algorithm
Thanks! Your comments are always appreciated!
Awesome stuff Dylan! Great new animations, I think they add a ton of value to your content. I can also confirm he used the saying at the end of the video and didn't pull that out of this air.
Thanks Treeck! I appreciate it!
First off you are super great to do this for everyone. Bringing light to the depths of strategy to Catan is huge, thank you.
The book seems like a sweet idea and a good gift.
Now the important stuff. I’ll say you are doing this to open minds, give ideas, share potential strategies and we should take these as suggestions and not “the best play possible”. If you see them as “the correct moves and anything different is subpar” then here are some thoughts.
Scenario 1: letting green have the 6/9 wheat and the 3:1 port when they have a 5/8 sheep/stone is too good. It’s better for everyone if green takes the 9/10 stone/wheat. As far as where you should then place, the 9/11/4 seems like the best spot. Letting blue take the 6/2 wheat/sheep means they will get robbed. And yeah your future 9 stone gets blocked but trade green the wheats they won’t have from their 10 getting blocked and you have plenty from double up on the 9. Or you know trade black because we haven’t talked about them and that makes them the weak position idk. Heck 8 could go blank the whole game and 6 rolls so blue wins.
Scenario 2: you did note “for this video“ so I assume you were asking for leniency here. You need to place at the 5/9/10 b/c the 8/4/2 only gives you four unique numbers, even after you expand to the brick/sheep or stone port. Feast or famine sure but not in a high stakes game right, you want to be balanced? 5/9/10 is objectively better for you. It’s strong o-w-s, double the 5, you get a 3:1 port and you get 5 unique numbers. Then 6 and 7 once you get the 2 and 4 off the 3:1/brick ports respectively. I also don’t think there’s that much danger in black eating the Bridgeport. You mentioned if I four rolls they could use the double road and cut you off but that is there only one number and yes it’s possible but I think everyone would be willing to risk it. Black could roll at seven and try to steal from blue/red to get a brick but in total that is a 2/6 chance. Again risk it. Additionally I don’t see how black is beating green to the 5/9/2 and red to the 8/4. Green will focus on getting to the sheep port first while black focuses on the 8/4 first per your suggestion. If they don’t then they then focus on the 5/9/2 first which gives red the time to focus on the 8/4. You didn’t really say black would get both but trying to emphasize their potential.
Scenario 3: naturally I thought you would extort green and didn’t even pay attention to red. Thanks for adding a potential no response scenario because I personally think people won’t make deals. I probably lack persuasive ability. Objectively it’s better to do the 6/4/2 B/C green getting that port and getting the spot is bonkers good. If you don’t settle there that seems like green has the game. Curious to what you would say a player would realistically give you from the start of the game that is more than two cards? I forgot your wording specifically but you leaned into the idea of leveraging a lot from your opponents. Would someone really give you their starting three cards just to not settle in a particular spot? If you think of it over the course of a game is that spot worth three cards to them, well sure it will likely produce more than three cards for them not to mention of points from that spot due to trades and settling etc. So the person gives you three cards not to go there, but how much more do you think you could get from them? Their next _ resource? Not to rob you the first time they can rob someone; but what if you aren’t the person worth robbing anyways? Ask for a one time no denying trade with the emphasis it’s a 2:1 or 3:2 “fair” deal?
Again just some thoughts. It’s crazy to think of every single move and direction a game can go at any given roll of the dice. Thanks for your videos and what you do for the game. See you at Nationals (assuming this vaccine helps and Origins happens).
Love all the thoughts Robert! This is a super long comment with a lot of thoughts/questions. I don’t think I meant in the video that any of these options were “correct,” but rather ideas to help you boost your game and give you an advantage. I know in a few years the game will advance farther than I can imagine and a lot of the things we think are “correct” will have better options.
@@DyLightedCatan I didn’t think you thought these were the best/correct options, just when we break them down there seemed to be ideas and questions to discuss but again you are doing this for many levels of players and that is great.
7:12 would def place on the 8 10 ore port spot, there are plenty sheep spaces you can still build to and youll likely be able to trade for them easily
Although this is a good tactic, I have to feel it is a sure fire way to get everyone to team against you from the start
I think you’re right! If you are playing against people who will get upset if you do this, then don’t do it! Or present it in a very nice manner.
decision at 7:14:
I would consider taking the 10/8, but not the port spot as the ore port isn't worth it. this is for the instant free road to cut purple off to the 3/4. You can probably beat blue to the settlement here because they have no wheat and you have higher production to 4:1 brick for that missing sheep. This not only cripples both blue and purple but this would set you up for a strong LR game with plenty of space to expand on the right hand side and have lots of brick for the brick port.
my other thought would be the 6/4/2 to cut green off and get the missing sheep for a ore/wheat/sheep game. then you goal would be to get the wheat port so you can trade for the missing resources.
personally I prefer the first option, but I shall now play the video and see what you thought.
Have to say I haven't played with tabletalk at all so that's probably why I wasn't thinking along those lines. nice one.
Yea it hinges all on table talk as most competitive games involve it. The game changes when you can talk with your opponents. It’s a completely different game.
This is a really great video mate, I can tell lots of effort went into it!
Thank you! I appreciate it!
I never thought of extorting people before placements, awesome video! Congrats on another brand deal and I think your new editor did a great job!
Thank you! I thought he did a good job too! I appreciate it :)
In the third scenario, we can extort blue by threatening to take the 3/4/11, locking them out of wheat. The better play is to take the 6/4/2 since if green gets their hand on sheep, it's very strong. But since you're lacking wood, you can demand that as their first trade, you give blue a wheat (maybe wheat+sheep if they're reluctant) for a road so that you can cut green off to the sheep port.
Edit: Oh, well, half right I guess!
Yep!!! Nice job! Extorting one of them is key!
@@DyLightedCatan I am wondering how often does this backfire by the player actually not trading you in the first round after initially accepting the deal. And how to act on this.
@@sifly4331 I am curious if this has ever happened before in this scenario and what usually happens in a competitive scene when it does over table talk
@sifly I was wondering that as well. I personally am not looking to be in a competitive situation any time soon but if this happened with my friends I think they would be seen as a sort of a cheater. We would probably invalidate their win if they won or just make fun of them if they still didn’t win.
That’s really just a scummy play but you’re right - sometimes in competition it is ‘anything it takes to win’. I would just hope that if someone repeatedly makes scummy plays like that, then the community wouldn’t support players like that.
This can be super useful. I’ve just started trying to apply defensive placements in my games, extortion is something I only really think about mid game as opposed to in the start. Thanks for the tips!
Yep! It’s another way to use a strategy you previously learned, but applying it to a different context!
great stuff - love the double extortion for the placement in the 3rd scenario!
1:24 "Okay Green, if I leave you the 9/4/11, you're gonna take it right? 5 resources, good production, balanced roads...
Especially if I go on the 4/11/Brickport, right? Like if you're gonna go for a defensive 9/10 placement against me, you're just kingmaking for Black who's not been making or hit by any defensive settlements. So let's just Black, you, and me play a normal game of Catan, you go on the 9/4/11, and I get the other brick and then the 9/10."
Ok yeah you've secured a much higher-producing spot with the same expansion spots, using a much riskier sounding incentivization and also using the trust that your promise has value. You are a bit slower than me on the brick for the 9/10 expansion though...
Those are some great thoughts!
Great video. Hope to see more videos of you commenting on your gameplay/reasoning in games, as I love to hear your thoughts not only on single decisions (like in this video) but a series of decisions throughout the game and your gameplan. Thank you for your channel, I've been enjoying your content a lot and I'm glad you're back :)
First off, thank you for the comment! Hopefully more gameplay videos will be coming soon! I appreciate all the support man!
Your ideas are great! In the 3rd problem you can also put extortion on purple by treating to put on 8-10
Yes!!! Exactly right.
This was very interesting. I actually made similar or even the exact same moves in every case but for different reasons. This game has incredible depth and strategy. So fun
This is a fantastic video. Wowowow. Never thought about an artificial road trade. My opponents are to dumb to take it. They just want to block me cause I’m the best
Heya Sam! Hahaha this comment was hilarious 😆
Same here, I play with family and friends mostly and they always gang up against me because i've lost like 2 games on I would say 65 games with them.
Great video, never thought of these concepts myself!
Thank you!!! I appreciate it man!
This is my favourite video so far. So advanced.
Glad you could enjoy it D Pilon! This was one I enjoyed quite a bit too
Greta video again! Really enjoyed your use of real-life scenarios as case evaluation almost like they do in chess. I will also check out that book, thanks for the suggestion!
Yes!! A lot of my videos comes from inspiration from Chess.
Great video! As green in the first scenario, I definitely would have taken the deal to place on the 9-10-2 and cut off blue. This would make it so I thought you were the biggest threat in the game, however. But with how many 7s came up in our game, I see you winning the game with you just having so much production and every resource
3:31 Right now I don't have Wood, Brick, or Sheep yet, and I have a strong Ore/Wheat setup that could be complemented with strong Sheep. There's a lot of Wood and Brick on this map and 2 players have strong Road setups already, so I definitely want to go for OWS. If I take the 4/3/8, I'm gonna not have Wood but Wood is even more plentiful on this map than Brick, I'm gonna have a stronger OWS setup than Blue, and Blue's gonna struggle getting some Brick unless he wants to box himself in with the 11/4/5 when Green's probably gonna take the 10/9/11 or the 5/10/9. I have a great expansion spot with the last resource, a harbor, and good production, and I'm feeling pretty comfortable. I don't think Green or Blue wants to start on the 8/4/Brickport.
Great analysis Iwer! Thanks for always being the first few people to comment! I always wonder when you would show up
Oh yeah that pressure trade is a really strong improvement, with no concessions as we're getting the 4/3/8 either way. The odds of a 4 on the first 4 rolls are only 23%, but it's better to be safe. Even without trust in Green's word, this argument with inhibiting Black and getting twice as much production as Green gives up from the 11 Ore, this tabletalk will likely work. Great lesson!
Thanks for another great video Dylighted!
Thank you!!
Really love your videos! I really learn a lot from them. I almost got the 3rd scenario, but I didn't think further than pushing blue and didn't push green into a bidding war :O
Yes!! Thanks for trying it!
Have you had a situation where a player seemingly agrees with your tabletalk demands but doesn't follow through? I.e. in the last example, blue agrees to trade his road for your wheat. You place on the 6-4-2, screwing over green, then when your turn/blue's turn comes along he doesn't trade you. In that case, you screw over green, and blue still gets on the 4-3. Big fan of your vids btw! Definitely has helped me get much better at Catan.
Thanks! Yes - that happened to me in tournament before. Always sort of sucks, but it can happen. I would say lying is probably the biggest counter to extortion.
@@DyLightedCatan on the other hand, players unintegrious don't tend to get offered trades later on, it usually doesn't pay off in the game and in general
this is some nice editing. keep it up. will think about this going forward
Great! Thanks Walid!
I've watched every single one of your videos, and I can immediately tell the difference in quality here! You clearly have more focus on the content without having to worry about the editing. Here's a half-baked idea for a future video if you're interested: find a position in a game where either a pro player made a questionable decision or some other game where players would have differing opinions on what to do in that spot and have them provide arguments for their side. You could then have players play each position all the way out and see how that critical decision impacted the rest of the game.
Another idea: I feel like you often have an intuitive sense of where the robber will be during games and how much that will affect the balance of resource distribution (from experience that other players might not have). Maybe you could show different board spreads and then analyze where the robber was in games (maybe play same board positions multiple times) and present that to viewers.
Thanks John! That was a lot to read. First, thank you for watching almost all my videos. I appreciate it. About the getting different pros, I definitely could do this! It sounds like a good idea but maybe a bit of work. Nothing wrong with that though!
My idea for the first chqllenge was to take the 4/8/desert spot. This way, you give green the 4/9/11 spot, allowing him to start strong, and opening the 9/10 port to yourself. This allows you to play a diverse game without looking threatning, playing for tye longest road with possible cities and dev cards.
That’s not a bad thought! I think another fine alternative is to simply take the 3-10-11 to keep the 9-10 open.
Love your content man, keep it up!
Are these deals binding though? In scenario 3 lets say you're green. Why not say you'll sell the farm to screw over blue? Then just say, nah.
I worry about placing suboptimally for an unbinding agreement.
Regardless, these are great examples to think over!
Yes! That’s a great thought. It’s the single biggest counter to extortion. However most players don’t lie and it’s also sort of bad etiquette to lie. Though if you’re playing for a ton of money, then it’s understandable. But most games people are pretty trustworthy.
I would say it is a very bad etiquette to extort people. Often players would team up against such a bully right from the start and that would be fair.
Wow this video is just AMAZING...King of the table talk! Wanna try it out but I'm super afraid of being targeted the rest of the game 😂 Looking forward to reading the book when it arrives January! 🤓
Thanks Rachel! Also thank you for checking out the book! I hope you find it useful! 😁
I thought this video was really cool - especially that last scenario where it seemed to me that neither the 3,4,11 nor the 6,4,2 were great spots in isolation; but coupled with the threat of hurting blue and green suddenly you are the one controlling the situation!
Yes! Since everyone is working in their self interest you can easily take control of the situation and profit.
This is great work!!! Ty from Denmark,
Looking forward to frustrate my friends with those sneaky thoughts
Thank Dennis! Go crush your friends :)
Now this is the kind of content the algorithm should promote!
Thanks, Daniel! By you commenting it helps the algorithm know you enjoyed my video!
Instead of saying something about the video: 🙃
2:50
nice hair cut, man ✂️😍😂
Really great examples, thanks so much for posting! A small question - how honest are people at high level tournaments? Fulfilling their end of the bargain later in the game is not part of the rules, is it? Sure, nobody would want to play with a liar in the future, but officially nothing would prevent them from registering for future tournaments, right?
Good question, most people I talk to are pretty truthful and will follow up on the deal. However only ever once in an actual tournament someone didn’t follow through on the deal, and I’ve done deals like this countless times.
They don't have to follow through with it. I think this makes situation 2 too risky for my personal tastes. However, people are generally honest for some reason so it will probably work out against most normal people since most people aren't playing logically.
I can't imagine playing like this at home. I wan't to but I can't imagine it going well haha. Thank you for your videos! I learn a lot!
It's awesome to see a game played with negotiations going like that!! At 5:29 you show us how to deal with difficult situation number 2. My question is: what if you put your 2nd settlement on 3/4/8 and green does NOT honor the deal. Are they allowed to? What would be the consequences of that?
For the last one, I would go on the 6,4,2 because you get the sheep you need plus you get a total of three wheats on the map while your near a wheat port
Fundamentally it’s the best option! I would default place over therr
The last game is like "prisoners dilemma" for blue and green. In the long run, I think its best for neither of them to negotiate with you at all here.
Blue is risking the most by being locked out of wheat, but he could turn to green and say "If we both dont negotiate with red, we can help out each other. If he places on 642, Ill help you cut him off. But if he places on 3411, i need x amount of wheat trades".
Yes!!! Not all players will see this though. In fact, most don’t and are pretty unfamiliar with these situations and simply bend to the pressure given to them.
Very interesting video, enjoyed it!
Glad you liked it Bastian!
I have a question that I don't think gets asked/talked about much.
Is it bad manners/bad etiquette to propose a deal to a player and then fall back on that deal later on in the game?
Example in this video: Let's say in situation 2, green agrees to take the 5/9/10 and trade a wood for brick at the start of the game (so red doesn't take 5/9/10), but as the game starts, green does not do this trade.
I've seen a lot of these deals made, but I've never seen it broken. Just curious if there is etiquette around this.
Yes, it is very bad etiquette to not follow through on something you said. However strategically wise, this is the best counter to extortion. However most players don’t lie and follow through on their word.
Dang the 1st situation is BIG BRAIN. Blue is so done.
The second situation, I would take the 5/9/10 in a heartbeat, but that setup is so strong I might get blocked non-stop during the game (8 ore is a robber magnet) and put me in a big disadvantage with no cities. Plus the outs are terrible (thank you desert). So the extortion tactic does make sense!
The third situation, I initially thought of extorting Green for not putting on the 6/4/2, but didn't see that I could extort Blue too.
Question: What happens if they initially agree to the deal but refuse to trade later, though?
Yea, so the weakness of extortion is people lying and not following through. Usually people are pretty trustworthy though but sometimes you encounter a situation where people lie. In games for money, don’t be surprised if people lie to you. It’s a sad truth but I personally try to never break the extortion deals I made.
Definitely agree on the second scenario, just take 5/9/10 and run with it. It looks like an untouchable setup but I’m guessing it did not work out that way 😏
At 3:40 I’d place on the 8-4-3. Good for dev cards, not a lot of brick and you’re close to the brick port
3:41 So I head 3 options in mind.
first I thought about the 4/5/11 bwo as it would guarantee to get to the port.
then I thought if this is enough to win as I had no sheep
so I looked for the good sheep spots.
I saw 5/9/10 as the best spot, though it really lacks bricks for road building, also as I dont have bricks I dont really need the brick port. With this Im basically locked into the ows game and hoping to get enough bricks from someone else.
I didnt thought about the 3/4/8 I think, as I was too focused over the 5/9/10. Or maybe I did, but fastly scrapped that as I would really need to get to the brick port for that to work out.
so well, you found the way to secure the brick port so. One step ahead. or maybe another 20 because you basically locked out everyone else except for green which was the least likely to have a good game anyway.
best video you've made! i will definitely try this out
Go crush your opponents!
Dylan, I have been introduced to Catan lately and I learn a lot from your videos. This one is a whole new layer. I understand, that those negotiated deals regarding initial placement, as well as the deals regarding being robbed, are not covered by the rules. What is the etiquette in high stakes tournaments? Are you expected to keep your word? What happens if you don't? In the cases described in this video you are in a strong negotiating position, but are there any means to make sure that the other side keeps their part of the deal?
Usually, most players follow through with their word. In higher stakes tournaments you can probably expect it to work less, depending on who you’re playing with. If they don’t keep their word it sucks for you, but it’s your job to incentive them to do so. If I think someone is sketchy and might break the deal, I’ll remind them the consequences of breaking a deal is 3 robber blocks/steal on them to give them a better incentive to follow through
Great strategy! , any strategies on howto recuperate your friends after extortionating them? 😁
Haha well when you extort them, you have to not treat it as pointing a gun at them. But rather doing a deal that helps both players out, this way you can maintain that healthy relationship in the game.
7:17 play: tell green that I will not go on the 624, blocking them out of their needed wheat and sheep to pair with higher ore rolls if they trade their brick with me. I then take the 3411 for access to the brick port
Just watched your analysis, love that idea of pitting players against each other when you have to cut one of them off
Also I love the 10 minute video length! Feels accessible to watch anytime I get a chance
Thanks for all the comments and love. I just posted another quick 10 minute one! :)
I’d never thought of using starting placements to extort players. That’s a game changer
Yes!!! Now go crush your friends with what you learned!
DylLighted for the 3rd scenario you forgot one key tip. That purple is Takeshi so you got on the 8-10 because you can't let him win after the Premier League Season 1 Final :)
Hahaha 😝
Thank you for your videos!
Thank you for commenting Grimbad!
What is to stop people from bailing on deals prior to the starting of the game? Is it just common courtesy or are the obligated to do that?
The deals are non binding, but that’s a risk you have to take. Most players do go through with the deal though!
In the second scenario, why would you go for the brick port instead of the ore port if you’re on that 8 ore?
For the third scenario, immediately I am attracted to the 3,4,11 because it patches up sheep and wood and strengthens wheat; but when I think of my eventual game plan, I don’t particularly like this setup for either dev cards or longest road. The strong wheat seems attractive but I fear that I would get the robber placed on me a lot.
However, it looks like green will be in a strong position with an early expansion to the 6,4,3 and the 3:1 port.
This idea of bargaining resources for starting placements is a little foreign to me. First, I didn’t recognize how much I could hurt blue with the 3,4,11. But your trade offer of cutting green off and building a road is really good. I couldn’t spot that.
another play i was considering for the 3rd situation was to threaten purple with potentially placing on the 8,10 wood brick and threatening to cut them off to the 4,3 wheat sheep in return for a good trade, before noticing blue's lack of wheat.
Yep! That’s certainly an option too. What is interesting in this situation is that you can extort literally all 3 players haha.
In the second situation. I think the 8 and 10 could be good if you can get a free road negotiated from blue or green and cut off purple.
That is another idea I did see but didn’t mention in the video due to time. But great job pointing it out here!
I don’t know if I’d ever be playing at a level like this with my friends but this is somewhat eye opening. Definitely given me some things to think about next time I play Catan. Actually I was just playing last night and thought my setup was dead to rights. But some lucky rolls and somehow ending on 7 sheep with a single number pulled out the win
7:04 I would place on the 6/2/4 and try to make an agreement with blue to trade my 2 starting wheats for wood and brick so I could cut off green to the sheep port.
Haha! Perfect!!!
Definitely advanced stuff! I wonder how many tournament players are using these strategies and principles consistently 🤔
In the cash tournaments you commentate on it’s used less frequently, but in something called the Premiere league, a group of high level players, it’s used very frequently.
Any chance you will do videos on Cities and Knights? Most of this strategies don't translate well into C&K. I think it will be a good mini-series (like 3 to 5 videos maybe?) as there are very few videos on here that discuss strategies for that expansion.
I don’t really play cities and knight that often so I’m not qualified to teach it, but I’m sure I could learn from someone or have them teach it here.
@@DyLightedCatan please do !
nice stuff dylan!
Thank you as always Austin!
Table talk tips are super helpful. Love to learn it. Algorithm algorithm algorithm
Thank you thank you Caesar!!! Appreciate it a ton
Nice video! One question though:
What if blue agrees on the deal, but after you place and the game has started, refuses to trade with you? Since it's not a direct resource for recourse trade within a turn I don't believe there's any rules preventing this?
Just asking because I had had this happen before.
Yep! Your opponent can always back out of a deal since these deals are non binding, but most people follow through on their word.
6,4,2 or the 3,4,11 and ask blue or green for a starting deal?
Instructions unclear. I ended up going on the 9/12 for my 2nd settlement and got cut off immediately
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
in #3 I saw the move for threatening green, but not threatening blue. Didn't occur to me that I could threaten more than one player
Yes! You can extort all 3 players here actually. You can extort using the 8-10 free road too!
6:57 The defensive settlement placement here would be the 2/6/4, blocking Green's best expansion spot and cutting him off Sheep. I could also go on the 10/8/Brickport, which gives me the strongest Road setup, good production, a pretty much ideal port, and I have enough expansion spots in the southeast. I can't extort a Sheep from Green though, as Green doesn't have Sheep yet... However, if a 9 or 10 rolls, I can ask for another Wood and cut off Purple to the 5 Sheep... idk I'm pretty stumped here, as I don't really see a use for the previous 2 lessons here
7 points of production without good road balance or OWS balance? That spot (4/3/11)... went pretty much over my head, I considered it briefly but I found it way too weak for me
Ohh that's an ore port
I'm not convinced that either Green or Blue will hold their promise and actually trade me the road. All they have to do is sound more convincing than the other of the two for that one time, and then just never play me again
Hahaha yea. It’s pretty player dependent. If you know someone is pretty honest, then go ahead and take a deal with them. If you know someone has the potential to scam you, then don’t do it with them. I personally recommend building up a reputation that can be trusted and following through with your deals.
Very interesting thoughts. I never thought about the game in those terms, because I thought agreements such as these are not binding. I also thought that extortion such as "give me a material so I don't hit you with a robber" are against the rules.
What is stopping the other players from not going through on the deal and you being stuck with sub-optimal placement? Is it the threat of you king-making?
Good questions! First off all of these are nonbinding, but most people follow their word. You can always arrange a punishment such as robbing the person 5 times. That’ll decrease the chance they screw you since you have the threat of gang robbing them back. Also, extortion is legal.
In the third scenario, would you ever think about taking the 8-10, point your road right, and then use that free road on your first turn to build down towards the 3-4-11? I know this doesn't use either strategy, and obviously it's risky because you then have to engage in a race with blue for that spot (or just the 3-4), but if your numbers hit and you win the race then it seems you could have really affected the game plans of both blue and purple. If no, is part of the reason because starting with sheep access is too important given your first placement?
Good thought! You could always do this but it’s risky as you said. Another way is to simply extort blue by threatening to go on the 8-10.
you do love the color red tough
but yeah for the first game the asnwer was obvious but i didn't get the reasoning good, the 2nd one i didn't get good either since i didn't see on the fact that you can screw over lime a for the 3rd one it's pretty interesting and one of them is screwed either way unless neither decide to take the deal and they help out each other instead
I’m glad you took the time to engage with the video!
I am wondering if there is a way to counter the extortion tactic by attacking the person who is trying to extort.
For example in the 3rd scenario, if I was green and red was proposing that deal to blue, I could counter offer to give my starting road to blue to backstab red’s extortion deal by giving blue two free roads to almost cut off red’s first settlement and work towards 912; assuming that red goes 642. Since red has no wood production, blue can get one more road to cut off red and go to 912. Also, green can get a road from production to cut off red to 63. Therefore, green and blue work together against red instead of being pitted against each other like a Saw situation.
Only thing that may be bad is that blue breaking a deal is unethical. But red trying to extort may also be unethical as well. But then again, blue may also backstab green and stick with red’s original plan.
Hahah yep. This is where you can go into a rabbit hole of strategy and ways to approach it differently. This is why I love Catan and find it interesting.
Quality content indeed!
Thank you!!
Very informative video!
Thanks Larry!
Looks great!
Thanks!
wow that was advanced. seems like you can talk your way to win this game :D
Hi dylighted I got a question, we made some changes to the rules with my friends to make the game more "organic" -it is actually really good-, we made the 4:1 to be of any resource, for example 1sheep 1brick 1wood 1wheat for 1 sth -also applies to 3:1 ports, this way the game it is not that snowballeable for the players with very good starting and let you cut their leed by side movements and less resources to put on a trade with other players, we also tried out the possibility of borrowing resources from other players and the player giving you that set what you need to give in return and usually is as soon as you get those resources he asks for back, and if you win with borrowed resources you dont need to pay your debth cuz you scammed them, tell me your thoughts, we find those variations pretty fun and really good. What do you think about it?
It sounds really interesting, but I personally only play with the official tournaments rules. But I’d be interested in trying some new rules like this!
You can make trade agreements before settling???
But on the first example, can you trade before it's your turn? Would you need to save your brick for green?
Actually paused to comment because you did such a good job of selling it- my answer is to black mail purple by threatening to take the 8/10 ore port. Instead, you should take the 6/3 sheep port on the condition that purple trades you their wood on the first turn of the game, allowing you to cut off green and build aggressively toward the 6/4/2 spot, effectively cutting green out of the game entirely. This gives you by far the strongest O/W/S setup on the board, while also preserving purple’s win condition with a longest road strategy
One thing I don't get with those strategies, how do you enforce them? in the second example, say that green agrees to the deal, you place your settlement and green goes ahead and say screw it, I'm taking the ore, what did you gain exactly? How can you make sure green honors the deal?
What about if they say they'll make the deal, you place accordingly and then they don't deliver?
That’s always a risk you have to take, but you most players will follow through with the deal.
Beast mode 💪🔥
Ayyy thanks man! Keep up the grind!
Last example. Haven't watched the answer yet. What I would do is I would go tell green That the 2/4/6 was looking juicy and that me taking it would be horrible for him or her. Then I would offer to settle in the 3/4/11 instead in exchange for one brick. That gives me two roads I can use to block blue from the port.
For the algorithm, great video 👍
Thank you Emiliano! It always helps me a bunch!
I have a question suppose they said yes to offer at start and later betray us then we are screwed.
I place a comment in the valuable comment section as that will give DyLighted more opportunities with the rare RUclips algorithm resource. Then, I extort DyLighted to make more strategy content videos by clicking on the like button.
🤣🤣🤣
Crazy good quality man. I don't think I'm up to par with your 4D Catan skills yet tho😭
Thank you Lucas! A lot of these ideas aren’t my own, but are simply just some strategies that have been becoming more common in competitive play.
As red you offer green the 2-9-10 and you take 4911, tell him you'll sell the brick 1:1 to cut off black
You got it!
I’ve been playing a lot more Colonist.io due to COVID, do you recommend balanced or random dice? Which is more normal?
Balanced dice is artificially balanced and normal dice can have more variance. I am pretty neutral on both dice.
@@DyLightedCatan much appreciated. My buddy noticed 5, 9, and 10 get rolled pretty regularly on the Random setting.
Hey Dyl, great video!
In another video, I think it was the one with the 2018 world championship first settlement analyse, you said you'd link a playlist of interesting tournament games in the description, but I think you forgot it.
Could you show me the link?
I'd love to watch some more high level gameplay now I've watched most of your videos😅.
Merry Christmas from Germany
Bastian
ruclips.net/p/PLabQHPHk0xMky0rraR6jK_QiS3YAER3JE
Here you go!
@@DyLightedCatan thanks a lot!
Why wouldn't the other players agree to your deal but then refuse the agreed upon trade after your placement?
You have to trust them, but you can also say “if you don’t follow through, I will be forced to rob you 5 consecutive times this game” as a scare tactic/punishment. This way they will be more incentivized to go through with the trade.
2 videos in one week?! I guess this is Christmas
Haha thanks Jason.
What happens if the opponents don't honor the deal though? For example is position number 3, imagine that blue agrees do to the deal with you. You place on 2,4,6, after which the game starts, and blue ignores you. You get screwed as green probably wins the race to the 6,3 spot, and blue is happy too, as he gets the space he needs for free. Isn't the risk of being in a bad spot after being lied to too high?
My friends and I have a strict 'no future trades allowed' rule, meaning that you cannot trade for something you do not currently have.
Cool! You can play Catan however you'd like, but in tournaments, this is totally legal but just nonbinding. Hope you still found the video useful though!
I know the end result probably doesn't change, but wouldn't it be better to open the bidding war right away in the last scenario? If you talk to either player first, I think you're screwing yourself. Say you talk to blue first and says no as you said. Green now has leverage over you because he knows that's not your ideal placement because of how you talked to blue about moving away from his spot. Or maybe if you open a bidding war right away there's a weird psychological thing where they both just decline and kinda turn on you? Just something to think about, great vids as always, love your content Dylan
Really interesting! I think you’re right that you would lose some leverage if someone said “no” to you. I think your idea might be slightly better!
@@DyLightedCatan Appreciate the reply! Love your work and everything you do for the Catan community and competitive scene! Happy to see you grow like you have and getting those sweet sweet endorsement deals, you deserve it all.
@@mateomonterrubio8383 Thank you so much Mateo! I'm just truly grateful for all the support I receive!