I’ve been doing the copyright avoidance tango with this video for a bit so expect a lot of mirrored footage and trailer shots. Sorry thats what I’m forced to use for background footage but thats youtube for you
It's funny RUclips does that considering using video/image for the purposes of critique, review commentary etc is considered 'fair use' legally, which is exactly what you are doing, RUclips should be telling claimants to go eff themselves with a baseball bat wrapped in razor wire!
I think HGS had more then a little inexperience too, they tried to make their first show without really knowing what they were doing. Velma is way worse, they had a good budget and people who have made a lot better stuff but the story is just pathetic and none of the jokes are the least bit funny. And while Sage isn't exactly a good person (and annoying like all Hell), Velma might be the worst protagonist I ever seen. Unintentionally funny beats whatever Velma is every time.
@@Cp-71 Indeed, almost every time those things were written by a particular person on it's crew (that BTW also wrote the worst stories which is pretty impressive by HGS standard). Still, HGS in unintentionally funny and Velma tries to be funny but is just insulting. Ergo, HGS is the better show. Not that it is an impressive achievement though, HGS is still terrible.
Velma: *repeatedly assaults people and commits crimes while facing no jail time or consequences of any kind* Fred: *is shot in the kneecaps, arrested, publicly humiliated and convicted on zero evidence and isn't exonerated until a third murder happens while he's in prison* The show's commentary: Men, especially wealthy white men, are all overpowered and overpriviledged and face no consequences for their actions, while women, especially poc women, are never taken seriously and are constant victims. The narrative gaslighting is real and it stretches into the show's commentary. There are so many examples of this happening, and the episode where Velma disguises herself as a guy is proof positive that said commentary is intended to be in earnest.
This is not the first time I see it. Believe it or not, but this has become normal in TV. But usually to such a smaller degree. Usually people like it, but in this instance the toxicity has been so concentrated that it appears clearly. People are toxic
This is actually a trope listed on TV tropes I think its either called comedic sociopath or heroic jackass or something, but its about characters that get away with doing horrible things either by virtue of being on the 'good side' or by humorist the audiences own schadenfreude, its been a staple in American comedies for decades but it only works when the audience likes the protagonist
yeah it's clear to me that the writers were clearly writing the show out of spite and not to actually comment on anything that they were trying to comment on. It's clear that they wrote Fred that way to get abused constantly because they wanted to get revenge on rich white people being privilaged, and they wrote Velma to get away with anything for similar reasons. But that's not how you write a good narrative and it completely goes against any potential message you're trying to convey. If you want to comment on things like that, you need to actually show it happening in order to get people on your side, and *then* the revenge porn can at least feel satisfying. But they just didn't care and wanted to skip right to the revenge porn. obviously there are plenty of other issues with he show but yeah.
My favorite part was how the show told the audience that the guy strapped to a table about to be gruesomely murdered simply because he was born a man isn’t the victim.
About intelligent characters sometimes doing stupid things: Idk why, but whenever someone mentions this I immediately think of Iroh in ATLA. He's the wisest character of the show, but at one point he does something incredibly stupid: he firebends in front of everyone while he and Zuko are trying to hide and act as earth nation refugees. Of course someone notices him and it creates conflict. The writers most likely needed one of them to do something stupid and get noticed, but it doesn't feel forced. Because Iroh might be wise, and cautious, and intelligent - but he used firebending to reheat his tea, and it's been well established that his love for tea can make him act stupid (like when he poisons himself trying to make tea in the wild). So, it is entirely possible to make very intelligent characters act stupid from time to time, even for comedic purposes. I'd even say it's necessary if we want them to feel 3 dimensional. Everyone has weaknesses and can do dumb sh*t from time to time. It just has to happen inside what has already been established about the characters
@@subaru4920 Yeah when they get to Ba Sing Se, he buys himself some tea to only to complain it being so cold out loud to everyone. One minute or so later he is still holding the same cup of tea, but now it is steaming hot.
The action of heating his tea is also engrained in Iroh's habits. He probably did it as second nature and forgot he wasn't supposed to fire bend at the time.
Aang and Sokka are both pretty smart characters but a few times in book 3 when they come together and pal around they become idiots for comedic effect. Like in the Runaway episode where Toph and Katara are fighting and Sokka suggests they send an apology letter to either girl, not knowing Toph can't read or write so the plan falls apart.
The funniest thing about Velma is that Mindy put so much of herself into Velma thinking she was making the character 'better' when really she was showcasing all her worst character traits.
The real shame is that this was meant to be a mystery show - having the show recognise Velma is an unreliable narrator could have play to so many advantages there.
I'm still convinced that this "Velma" is a looney fangirl who plans to kill and replace the real one, and the other characters are different figments of her warped mind. This is the origin story of a future villain.
*laughs at this insinutation that this show is a mystery when it has a major plot beat, the third murder that proves Fred is innocent, happen entirely offscreen*
They tried so hard to make an imperfect, morally grey protagonist that they forgot to add any actual good traits. When she’s supposed to be in the wrong, she’s terrible. When she’s supposed to be in the right, she’s still terrible.
Jerk protagonist don't really even require much by way of good traits, they just need to be someone the audience can empathize with. That is, the characters bad behavior needs to come from a place the audience can understand, even if the character doesn't invoke any sympathy. The problem with an author insert character in the role of jerk protagonist is that the author needs to have some capacity for self awareness to pull this off.
There were no other writers; Mindy Kaling fired every last one of them just so she can reserve the writing room to eat Cookies and Cream Ice Cream and cry about how Tracy Danvers from midddle school called her fat and ugly.
‘Why don’t we teach boys not to murder girls?’ Why don’t we teach thieves not to steal? Why don’t we teach drug dealers to not deal drugs? Most people already know that it’s bad to do these things: sadly this doesn’t stop people from doing them, the people who commit these crimes generally aren’t ignorant of the law, they do it anyway because they don’t give a shit about the law.
That’s why, as a gal, I opt for the self defense route of getting a gun, pocket knife, pepper spray, and/or gaining situational awareness. It builds confidence, which actually makes one less likely to be a victim. Not saying anyone deserves to be victimized and all that, but bad actors tend to go for weak targets. Best bet is toughen up and score high on the “F around, Find out” graph.
Yeah this is why certain concept’s taken seriously like the Purge movies is nonsensical. Just making it legal to murder people for one day won’t magically make serial killers stop wanting to kill more outside of that one day.
There also is no mention usually of the staggering number of people that put themselves into positions to be victimized knowing it could happen. Or the number of people that weren't victims that are convinced by others that they were, often by some professional with an agenda...
Velma having a hate fetish makes so much sense, I can't believe I never noticed that. I think what happened is that the writers wanted a love square between the main characters, where Velma simultaneously wants everyone and is desired by everyone. However, she can't choose someone to date, because that would end the drama. Once she settles for a character she would have to close the door on the other two. So the writers' solution to that problem is forcing Velma to lose interest once somebody actually likes her back, or in Norville's case, she only became interested in him when he stopped simping for her. This keeps the "will they/won't they" plot going at the expense of giving Velma a hate fetish. And it definitely wasn't the writers' intention to give her that trait.
Oh a point. that thumbnail there. I had been wondering about that scene because it was so out of place. Daphne ended on getting along with Velma last episode so why would she randomly attack Velma out of the blue? Especially if this is a character meant to always be shown to be right in the end.
So this show criticizes rich people, but mindy herself is a rich person? Edit: I think that you can criticize a group you are a part of while being non hypocritical, it’s just Mindy is being hypocritical in this context,
When I wrote my first short story, I meant for the main character to be an intrepid youngblood explorer, with no experience yet but a lot of passion. And while I did write that correctly, I also wrote how others saw him as I did. But after working on it a while I was able to distance myself from my work and look at it objectively. I then realized the protagonist was really a well-intentioned but unaware jerk who put others at risk for the sake of a glorious story to tell. At first I thought I fucked up, but then I realized I could write other characters to have appropriate reactions to his antics. Call him out for his obliviousness so he can see the error of his ways. His arc then becomes learning to put others before himself, and realizing there can be glory in acts of selflessness. All that is to say, I realized audiences would see the flaws in the character I was initially unable to, and instead of bending the world to make him look perfect, I focused on his imperfections and incorporated it into the story.
@@elevate07 over the course of a series I'm still working on, he becomes a very reliable and loyal friend. He still gets in trouble because he's stubborn, but he makes a lot of friends on his journeys
@@ceinwenchandler4716 I had thought up that story to be a one-off, but it turned from a trilogy to a 6 part, then 9 part, then a 12 part series, and I'm still working on it
11:00 It's quite concerning how Mindy keep insisting how Velma is so accurate about teenagers and high school when... f*ck no! There is no sane teenager who acts like any of this characters! Seriously! Is it an american thing? Because I'm french and there is 0% of real teenager's life in this show to me. And I'm barely older than high school age! Is this how Mindy sees teenagers? A bunch of dumb sociopathe who hangs out with other people only in the hope to gain something from them? Because I know teenagers can be... extreme, but they're not some sociopathes. On the opposite: they have strong feelings and moral code. For the best and the worst. (And please. Velma an intelligent leader? Mindy talks like Velma was coaching every dumb members of the group to work for the better when in reality she developps toxic relationship with them to force them to work for her.)
not only is it inaccurate to teenagers in America, it's inaccurate to all teenagers and to life itself. Like yeah teens can be stupid and even mean sometimes but they're human, the characters in this show in no way act like humans.
At least Teen Titans Go knows that its characters are stupid and treats them as such. In fact, I'm starting to think Velma might be the adult cartoon equivalent to Teen Titans Go, if not even worse.
Because of the trailer, I thought that Velma was gonna get murdered and the rest of the Mistery Gang would have to discover who killed her. Honestly, this would be a lot more interesting.
The thing that I think I hate the most is that even in this piece of shit there _could_ have been potential, it just needed to be in the hands of people who aren't maliciously incompetent. Because there's the bones of a really interesting idea in a protagonist and serial killer villain sharing motives. A really simple way to do it would be that they both crave recognition; the killer for murder, Velma for her intellect. At first Velma genuinely just wants to find her mother, but as her investigation takes her further than the police have ever gotten she starts to be praised and recognised, and her priority shifts from her mother's fate to the fame that comes from solving an 'unsolvable' case. The killer, meanwhile, escalates in violence and brutality at the same time, chasing the same high for being feared and using Velma to get it. A toxic symbiosis, where they use each other for their own fulfilment. Wrap it up with a climax where Velma finds her mother and the killer and is forced to confront her own motives, needing to make the choice between saving her mother but losing the killer and the infamy that bringing him in would give her, or chasing the positive attention she's been increasingly craving but losing her mother.
The sad thing is that there was a pretty easy way to let Velma stay as she was in the show while also explaining WHY she was constantly called “smart” while constantly acting like an idiot. How? Simple. State, plainly and simply, that Velma struggles to think analytically in highly stressful situations. Then simply give her a reason to feel stressed (IE: have a close friend get abducted by the killer with a warning not to investigate), so she’s constantly struggling to stay calm enough to actually work through the mystery, thus letting the fact that others solve major parts of the mystery serve to show everyone contributing in helping Velma through her stressful situation instead of showing she’s a total idiot who lucks into the solution to a problem.
I'd actually like to offer a second term: 1) Narrative Gaslighting: When a creator *really* wants you to like (or hate) a story, character, or concept but rather than taking the time and skill to present it as something likeable, they simply create a world where everybody already agrees with them and everybody can't be wrong, right? 2) Franchise Bias: When a creator assumes that their specific depiction of a character, world, or concept inherently possesses all traits ever previously assigned to it. Hercules will be strong, Sherlock Holmes will be smart, Slenderman will be scary and therefore there is no need to establish these traits. Velma is the first one, using a kind of in-show peer pressure to get you to side with Velma as a character. This is a creator trying to sway you by force of will, not by utilizing the medium. It also has a touch of two, such as Velma having the unearned mystery-solver reputation. High Guardian Spice is the second, because it doesn't have to be an established franchise for this to happen. I would argue that the original creator had lived with that world for so long that they no more felt the need to establish that magic system than they would have felt the need to establish what a tricorder or lightsaber are, while Rosemary and Sage already carried as much inherent character as Spock and Han Solo. This could also mean they stopped questioning what were established concepts in their head. This is why, as much as it stings, you really need to get someone with no franchise knowledge who is not predisposed to liking your work to take a critical look at it.
Velma's fetish for needing to be hated is a form of "masochism" actually. If I understand it right it's an aspect of the inferiority complex. Which given that Velma is Mindy Kaling's self-insert, it says a lot...
For some weird reason I've watched a lot of reactions to Velma, and you're the first one to bring up how Velma only likes other characters when they hate her and that Mindy probably has a hate fetish. I really think you struck gold there! Good observation!
Velma is basically Rick Sanchez from _Rick and Morty_ . Someone who is framed as "intelligent" and/or "the good guy" even when they do objectively terrible things. And the characters who try to call out their actions are framed as "dumb" for not subscribing to their flawed/bullshit philosophy.
But even in rick and morty they have the self-awareness to call themselves out with plotlines showing just how much of a bad influence Rick is on the family
@@georgeprchal3924 this is true. Rick is competent. A complete monster who commits crimes against existence but a highly competent genius. They didn’t even bother to write Velma as competent at being a normal person
Rick is a horrible monster but his intelligence is undeniable. Velma is an idiot is written as an idiot, acts like an idiot, talks like an idiot. Yet everyone treats her as some kind of super genius. Rick is a horrible monster but a super intelligent one and everyone treats him like hes super intelligent but also a complete asshole.
Fun fact: The Velma TV Tropes lists Velma as "Jerk with the Heart of a Jerk"-Not even the show's own TV Tropes can find anything good about the main character 😆😆😆
I might get some hate for this take, but I don't care. I need to say this. The way Dave describes narrative gaslighting is basically what She-ra and the princesses of power did with Catra. The show and the characters try so hard to make us belive that she's this amazing character, when in reality she has more things in common with Velma than Mindy Velma with the original Velma. The show wants the viewer to belive that Catra is a good person, who only plays the big bad guy part but her heart isn't into it, yet she enjoys watching people suffer, she's fine with the Horde killing innocents as long as she's in command and also acts like a huge d*ck with everyone around her. The show wants us to belive that Catra cares a lot about her job as Force Captain and does her best to keep that position, when in reality she screws up her plans everytime Adora is involved, focusing on her and putting aside the mission. And lastly but not less important, the show wants us to belive that Catra looooves Adora. Sure, all the guiltriping, gaslighting, insults, physical and mental abuse that Catra made Adora go through for ages, not just when they were enemies, is just Catra's way to be a tsundere. Because when you love someone, you try to kill them for no reason. That's obvious!
From watching videos on the show I did comments mentioning how there is issues with Adora too. They say Adora and Catra are super close yet Adora pretty much never talks about Catra. people focus on how Adora offered Catra the chance to leave the Hoarde. but Catra could have left the Hoarde anytime as she knew what they actually did. so it basically Adora is saying Catra should leave behind her current life just to be with her as she gives about no other arguement for why Catra would want to leave. aside (I may be wrong as I did not watch it) saying she knows Catra is good which is basically gaslighting Catra by saying "I know you will make the right decision which is doing what I believe is right". and there is also a laundry list of negative things Glimmer does and never apologizes for.
@@phantom-ri2tg I don't know who said those things, but I can assure you that Adora talks about Catra everytime she has the chance. They interact in almost every episode and when that doesn't happen, Adora thinks about Catra (but not in a romantic way. More like "Why is my best friend okay with people dying and I can't reach out to her?" or "If Catra does something bad it's all my fault"). Adora is Catra's caretaker, because Shadow Weaver (their mother figure) made Catra Adora's responsability when they were kids and Adora had to provide Catra the attention that she didn't recive from Shadow Weaver. Saying that Adora aslo gaslights Catra is like saying that the abuse victim is gaslighting the abuser because they don't want to belive they're putting their trust in the wrong person. Yes, for a while Adora still hopes that there's some good in Catra, but that's because she doesn't want to belive the person she grew up with is a monster. Catra had many reasons to leave the Horde, but fans often argue that she was staying there because Adora was with her. So by the same logic, Catra should have left that place as soon as Adora asked her to. But Catra shouldn't be Adora's responsability. If one of your friends does something bad, it's not your fault. About Glimmer. Most of her problems started in season 4 (don't want to spoiler too much) but it's not true that she never apologizes. She apologizes everytime she does something wrong and her apologies are way better than one "I'm sorry for everything" who didn't bring to any change (again don't want to spoiler too much)
Yeah I couldn't really get behind her redemption after she was fully on board with genocide and war crimes and if I remember correctly, she wanted to activate a mission that could destroy the planet?
@@angeloalvarez5520 She did. She activated the portal that Adora warned her about and when Catra realized that she was right and the world was ending, she continued to blame Adora and attacked her. They could have made Catra redemption arc start there and show that she wasn't THAT evil, but instead they double it all down.
Of all the Velma dunk/analysis videos I’ve watched, yours does the best job of explaining _WHY_ Velma is bad and doesn’t work or make any sense. Instead of just riffing on the show (which is entirely warranted) you go into detail about how the poor writing creates a weak story. Narrative gaslighting perfectly explains the issues I noticed about the show as to how contradictory the text and framing were.
I know this video is about velma but i was struck by how perfectly the concept of narrative gaslighting captured the problem with the show RWBY. Thanks for this.
When he was talking about the whole what the show trys to tell but we actually see i had to think about Marinette from Miraculous Ladybug. Like the try to present her as this perfect person who can do nothing bad. All i see is a stalkerish girl with an obsession and a hypocrit regarding her secret identity.
"Woe unto those who call evil good, and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with better." -Isaiah 5:20
I think that separating the art from the artist is fine when the art isn't part of what makes the artist so appealing or unappealing. If the stuff that encapsulates your feelings on the artist is present in (or in Velma's case prevalent throughout) the art, then it makes perfect sense not to separate them. Additionally, it's not really a necessary separation in cases like this as the point is either to be more fair to the art (in the case of good art made by a bad artist) or to the artist (in the case of bad art made by an otherwise good artist). No one bothers to separate the two when either both are good or both are bad.
OMG this is exactly correct! I was reading this popular interactive fiction and was often noticing this situation where a character's actions show them as one thing, but other characters (or even themselves) would comment on them in a completely different light. I know little about writing and was pondering if there is a name for this, cause I was feeling like I'm either crazy or am being gaslighted by the author. Narrative gaslighting is the perfect term!!
Shows like this and even some movies show the big disconnect between Hollywood and the real world. Think about the people who create stuff like this, they live in affluent areas, surrounded by people who sing their praise but can get possibly fired for saying something that they do is wrong, or doesn't make sense. They go to award shows and banquets where they are talked about how great they are, and they have to praise each other and go on shows where the default is to praise the person, praise the show etc... well... I think they need more people in their lives telling them no... that was a bad idea... no don't do that, it will appear horrible to most people outside of Hollywood who don't have to sing your praises, even when it isn't actually funny or isn't cool.
it there is a think that piss-off the scooby doo fans more then cuting out scooby was velam being a terrible detective., wich disrespect all the previous encarnations of the caracther, wich she was the brain of the gang.
Say what you will about High Guardian Spice's flaws, at least it could have fixed them with some minor script editing (flesh out the main characters a bit more, add more lore to make the world stand out and explain some plot issues, ditch the unessesary side characters, tighten up the overarching plot, etc.). Velma on the other hand was clearly broken from the word "go" and would need to burn down, fall over, and sink into the swamp before anyone could start to improve upon it.
You know, its funny that you're in hell. When getting that presidential award, Mindy was thanking god... but I'm fairly certain whatever help she got didn't come from the big man upstairs.
i already thought your reviews were cool, but the soda drinker pro reference is just the icing on top of the cake i need to be able to tolerate seeing velma again
4:03 dissonance = lack of harmony / lack of "teamwork" if you will Ludic = gameplay Ludonarrative = about the relationship between gameplay and narrative therefore Ludonarrative dissonance = when the gameplay fights the narrative Narrative dissonance = when the narrative fights itself / when *some elements* of the narrative fight *other elements* of the narrative Btw, haven't finished the video yet, but im liking so far
As fun as it is to hate on shows like these we really need to stop giving these writers what they want, its obvious they want us to make videos bashing their shows as we need to watch it in order to actually bash it and watching it is what gives them money. Also hate watching this show is still watching it and watching it is what gives them money so we should stop hate watching it too.
I still think the show is weirdly genius in what it did. It formed a whole culture around it, and yeah, it is intentional - Velma is somehow still relevant, people still talk about it, and will probably still see it, just for the sake of hate-watching or "exploring" or even just reacting to it... And other people will love the reaction to it. So, in a way, it's a show that rises up through sheer infamy, and it feels like the intended purpose - the show does everything "right" to upset ALL groups of people from all walks of life, and forces them to endlessly talk about it, binge hate it and binge react to it... It's spreading like wildfire, and oddly enough - I think it works for it as a show - it's a hate watch show. This isn't made to be loved or cared about, this is made to cause the most cause among people as much as possible. Still, as an animator, the show certainly makes me see which kind of emotions I might trigger with certain things... It's both important to know if I want to avoid it , as well as I ever be bold enough to attempt it. For my animated show though, it's too weird and bizzare to make people feel anything other than "That's weird".
The thing is though I don't think hate watching works Besides content creators making rage-bait content who in their right mind would willingly watch a show that they hate? Most people will just ignore it outright or only watch other people make fun of it I really would like to see numbers for the show because im 90% sure that the majority of the people who are complaining about it have not and will never watch it And if im right and this is the case where is the financial incentive to be hated?
@@thecultofcaged Yeah, it'll be very interesting to see if those shows actually managed to get to their financial goals. Still, what sure is - They do manage to generate allot of attention, that's obvious. The question if it was worth it matters allot, but, the attention itself, is almost artful in what it does. Another big thing to ask - how long will people keep talking about it?
The original scooby doo show, the mystery gang were a group of ppl who were all different( except maybe Fred and Daphne) like, the kind of ppl you wouldn’t expect to ever hang out, let alone be friends. Yet they were friends who cared about each other, and for any faults they had( mainly for comedic purpose) they liked each other. As a child, it showed me that ppl and their background does not need to be a barrier to friendship. These kind of reboots have ppl not only not being friends because of such things, not only actively using such as an excuse for treating them bad, but only show (fake)friendship to ppl who can give you something you want
Velma 2023 is like they wrote Toko Fukawa without the character development and the writers not trying to pretend her flaws are excusable due to a traumatic backstory
My theory is Velma is an anti animation show created and used as a pretex to never do animation again. (because it coste more than a live sitcom) Considering the whole state of the American industry (Hollywood essentially), they are run by corporate money pinchiing obsessed heirs that had nerver create the industry, juste profite following a premade plan that is becoming obsolete. The 'Woke Buzz' would have worked in the heighties and nineties, maybe even a the beginning of the millenia, but not anymore. This whole show was greenlighted to drag animation even more down so that executive can pretend it doesn't work. It's a hate move against fan of animation and Scoobidoo, but it is essentially a massive attempt a gaslighting the industry to get ride of a merly less cheaper alternative to film making (Yes I do confond series making and movie making because they basically used the same tools) than paying live actors to do act and pretend.
I was Afk when you mentioned the buffoon getting lucky happenstance and immediately thought Satan Hercule then I came to look at the screen and saw my boy up XD
This is my issues with Avatar 2 as well. The movie keeps SAYING the military is powerful and a threat, but the movie keeps SHOWING the military being absolutely helpless against the Na'vi. Na'vi are depicted as having flat-out invulnerability to bullets while they are running and the Na'vi can completely crush the military even when they aren't using guerilla warfare tactics.
@@theunderstatement6842 Even then, that happened when the character stopped to hop over a fence. Which is why I specified "invulnerability to bullets while they are running"
@@kyleellis1825 if you do that, she would get off on that. She made Velma, so people can hate her and she has the greatest, being hated fetish I ever seen. If god hates her, that would be great joy in her life.
I think Mindy’s self-insert has a hate fetish because Mindy might have something similar to what entitled Christian people have, martyr/persecution syndrome. If people hate and bash you, it’s actually a GOOD thing since it means you’re in the right, you’re revealing an uncomfortable ‘truth’ and all your suffering will eventually be worth it when all of your bullies are proven wrong and get ‘crushed’ by guilt and/or punishment. It’s a desire to be hated for the sake of feeling special. It’s a weird psychological phenomenon.
Imagine being one of the most privileged people in Hollywood and then making an entire show pretending that you're a victim or have any idea what hardship that you didn't bring on yourself is
So with the first definition of Narrative Gaslighting, does that also include when a studio or creator lies about something to draw interest into their creation, only to treat the audience as being in the wrong for feeling like they were being lied to? For example, Masters of the Universe Revelations trailer showing clips only from the first episode to trick us into thinking He Man was in the show, only for him to die off and we get stuck with Teela instead?
holy shit ive been lowkey losing my mind watching your video because you snuck w101 commons music into the background and i thought it was running in the background of my computer! XD
Damn, that’s the first time I saw you do something other than high Guardian spice, how long has it been since it’s been released? So you’re now Velma hq?
It’s really funny to notice the hate fetish thing. I love the idea that the writers were so unaware of how their characters are coming across that they accidentally make a character fall in love with being treated like shit
Am i the only person that finds odd that Fred and his parents have black eyebrows? even thou every other character in the show have the correspondent color for their eyebrows. Given the only exception i can think of is daphne, who has her hair tinted..... is all of fred family supposed to have their hair bleached?
I thought it was pretty common for blonde haired characters to have dark eyebrows? Pretty sure it’s been a thing for years to point out. To answer the question, probably to make it easier on the animators in regards to character expressions. Eyes are a big thing when it comes to conveying emotions, so they probably darken the eyebrows to emphasize those emotions.
@@jendoe9436 perhaps, but its still inconsistent,and i dont think using black eybrows is a blonde thing, but an style one, all the previous freds had black eyebrows, but so did all the other characters. And its rare they justified it for daphne but not Fred
@@kyleellis1825 I wanna point out dark and black arent synonims. Sure black is dark, but dark aint necessarily black. Blonde eyebrows are often shades of brown, but im yet to see someone blonde who hasnt dyed their hair with black eyebrows. I just realized with your comment that both you and the earlier guy used dark instead of black, although i was saying black all the time. No offense, this kind of thing happens.
@@miser2570 They are synonyms. They just aren't perfect matches. Synonyms are just venn diagrams of overlapping similarities. because have you looked at a thesaurus lately? Half the selected words barely match even if you squint. My brother has black eyebrows. His head and arms are blonde. the rest of his hair is practically jet black. He spends a lot of time outside so his blonde hair gets even more faded in the summer and it REALLY stands out.
Velma has what I'm going to call the Daria Dilemma, as Velma's situation reminds me of the character, Daria, but done poorly. Daria herself admits in one episode, "I actively work to make people dislike me so I won't feel bad when they do." It's a character flaw that stems from Daria's own insecurities, which I imagine come from her experiences with her younger sister, Quinn, among other things. Quinn is the "prettier and more popular" sister, and Daria knows she will inevitably be compared to her and frowned upon for not being more like Quinn. So rather than just sitting there and taking it, Daria acts sarcastic and jaded to preemptively push people away BEFORE the comparisons with Quinn start happening. Velma, at least superficially, has a similar problem. The show makes it clear that Velma is not as physically attractive or charismatic as some of the other female students, and the fact that she is not white does not help her in HER mind. So she doubles down on bad behavior, thinking, "If people are going to hate me anyway, I might as well give them a real reason to do so." The problem with Velma when compared to Daria is the Velma writers do not treat this character flaw as a flaw. Velma, despite her bad behavior, always gets what she wants in the end. Daria actually does suffer some consequences for being so jaded. Velma does not.
Something I like in a story is where a very clearly good person who wants to do what's right over time becomes more morally grey as they end up adapting to the world around them. Then characters around them begin to notice the change but don't want to say anything because they either have too much faith in them and think they're doing it for a reason, or because they're starting to become scared of them. Then this all keeps building until eventually something happens and this character snaps and crosses a line that could never be justified. Something where the story itself acknowledges the change. Velma, unfortunately, is not that story.
The weird thing is that although the show tries to present Velma as the smartest person in the show, they put in a line that suggests she's copying Norville's homework. Why? It's possible their intent was that Norville is sending Velma homework to complete, but it isn't presented that way, and we don't see her doing that. I can only assume this was Kaling using her own experience without realising that this is the opposite of what she's trying to present Velma as. It just adds to the idea that Velma isn't intelligent at all.
I’ve been doing the copyright avoidance tango with this video for a bit so expect a lot of mirrored footage and trailer shots. Sorry thats what I’m forced to use for background footage but thats youtube for you
It's funny RUclips does that considering using video/image for the purposes of critique, review commentary etc is considered 'fair use' legally, which is exactly what you are doing, RUclips should be telling claimants to go eff themselves with a baseball bat wrapped in razor wire!
You know, hell is not that bad, if the heat bothers you I heard the ninth circle is frozen
High Guardian Spice was pure incompetence. Velma is pure malice.
I think HGS had more then a little inexperience too, they tried to make their first show without really knowing what they were doing.
Velma is way worse, they had a good budget and people who have made a lot better stuff but the story is just pathetic and none of the jokes are the least bit funny.
And while Sage isn't exactly a good person (and annoying like all Hell), Velma might be the worst protagonist I ever seen.
Unintentionally funny beats whatever Velma is every time.
Aptly put
It was not PURE incompetence, HGS regularily showed hatred towards certain ideas (conservatism, men etc.)
@@Cp-71 Indeed, almost every time those things were written by a particular person on it's crew (that BTW also wrote the worst stories which is pretty impressive by HGS standard).
Still, HGS in unintentionally funny and Velma tries to be funny but is just insulting. Ergo, HGS is the better show.
Not that it is an impressive achievement though, HGS is still terrible.
Which do you think is worse? Unintentional incompetence or intentional malice?
Velma: *repeatedly assaults people and commits crimes while facing no jail time or consequences of any kind*
Fred: *is shot in the kneecaps, arrested, publicly humiliated and convicted on zero evidence and isn't exonerated until a third murder happens while he's in prison*
The show's commentary: Men, especially wealthy white men, are all overpowered and overpriviledged and face no consequences for their actions, while women, especially poc women, are never taken seriously and are constant victims.
The narrative gaslighting is real and it stretches into the show's commentary. There are so many examples of this happening, and the episode where Velma disguises herself as a guy is proof positive that said commentary is intended to be in earnest.
This is not the first time I see it. Believe it or not, but this has become normal in TV. But usually to such a smaller degree. Usually people like it, but in this instance the toxicity has been so concentrated that it appears clearly. People are toxic
@@Master-Works Been the core of the MCU's writing in phase 4 (and Captain Marvel).
This is actually a trope listed on TV tropes I think its either called comedic sociopath or heroic jackass or something, but its about characters that get away with doing horrible things either by virtue of being on the 'good side' or by humorist the audiences own schadenfreude, its been a staple in American comedies for decades but it only works when the audience likes the protagonist
yeah it's clear to me that the writers were clearly writing the show out of spite and not to actually comment on anything that they were trying to comment on. It's clear that they wrote Fred that way to get abused constantly because they wanted to get revenge on rich white people being privilaged, and they wrote Velma to get away with anything for similar reasons.
But that's not how you write a good narrative and it completely goes against any potential message you're trying to convey. If you want to comment on things like that, you need to actually show it happening in order to get people on your side, and *then* the revenge porn can at least feel satisfying. But they just didn't care and wanted to skip right to the revenge porn. obviously there are plenty of other issues with he show but yeah.
I wonder what problem Mindy has with white people
My favorite part was how the show told the audience that the guy strapped to a table about to be gruesomely murdered simply because he was born a man isn’t the victim.
About intelligent characters sometimes doing stupid things: Idk why, but whenever someone mentions this I immediately think of Iroh in ATLA. He's the wisest character of the show, but at one point he does something incredibly stupid: he firebends in front of everyone while he and Zuko are trying to hide and act as earth nation refugees. Of course someone notices him and it creates conflict.
The writers most likely needed one of them to do something stupid and get noticed, but it doesn't feel forced. Because Iroh might be wise, and cautious, and intelligent - but he used firebending to reheat his tea, and it's been well established that his love for tea can make him act stupid (like when he poisons himself trying to make tea in the wild).
So, it is entirely possible to make very intelligent characters act stupid from time to time, even for comedic purposes. I'd even say it's necessary if we want them to feel 3 dimensional. Everyone has weaknesses and can do dumb sh*t from time to time. It just has to happen inside what has already been established about the characters
@@subaru4920 When they first reach Ba Sing Se.
@@subaru4920 Yeah when they get to Ba Sing Se, he buys himself some tea to only to complain it being so cold out loud to everyone. One minute or so later he is still holding the same cup of tea, but now it is steaming hot.
The action of heating his tea is also engrained in Iroh's habits. He probably did it as second nature and forgot he wasn't supposed to fire bend at the time.
Aang and Sokka are both pretty smart characters but a few times in book 3 when they come together and pal around they become idiots for comedic effect. Like in the Runaway episode where Toph and Katara are fighting and Sokka suggests they send an apology letter to either girl, not knowing Toph can't read or write so the plan falls apart.
Plus heating up the tea is a very subtle form of firebending, so he probably thought he could do it on the slight and no one would notice.
The funniest thing about Velma is that Mindy put so much of herself into Velma thinking she was making the character 'better' when really she was showcasing all her worst character traits.
Narcissists rarely if ever realize they are Narcissists.
She literally made a self insert scoopy doo fanfic and made into a animated show
@@mwperk02I’m pretty sure that’s one of the key traits to narcissists
The real shame is that this was meant to be a mystery show - having the show recognise Velma is an unreliable narrator could have play to so many advantages there.
I'm still convinced that this "Velma" is a looney fangirl who plans to kill and replace the real one, and the other characters are different figments of her warped mind.
This is the origin story of a future villain.
*laughs at this insinutation that this show is a mystery when it has a major plot beat, the third murder that proves Fred is innocent, happen entirely offscreen*
@@vegeta002Stop! You're Gonna Give Them An Idea to Fuck Up so Badly No one will Think It's GOOD!
They tried so hard to make an imperfect, morally grey protagonist that they forgot to add any actual good traits. When she’s supposed to be in the wrong, she’s terrible. When she’s supposed to be in the right, she’s still terrible.
Jerk protagonist don't really even require much by way of good traits, they just need to be someone the audience can empathize with. That is, the characters bad behavior needs to come from a place the audience can understand, even if the character doesn't invoke any sympathy. The problem with an author insert character in the role of jerk protagonist is that the author needs to have some capacity for self awareness to pull this off.
There were no other writers; Mindy Kaling fired every last one of them just so she can reserve the writing room to eat Cookies and Cream Ice Cream and cry about how Tracy Danvers from midddle school called her fat and ugly.
‘Why don’t we teach boys not to murder girls?’
Why don’t we teach thieves not to steal?
Why don’t we teach drug dealers to not deal drugs?
Most people already know that it’s bad to do these things: sadly this doesn’t stop people from doing them, the people who commit these crimes generally aren’t ignorant of the law, they do it anyway because they don’t give a shit about the law.
It's sad the number of times I have seen women unironically say what Velma did, though. It's an actual mindset and it is mind boggling.
That’s why, as a gal, I opt for the self defense route of getting a gun, pocket knife, pepper spray, and/or gaining situational awareness.
It builds confidence, which actually makes one less likely to be a victim. Not saying anyone deserves to be victimized and all that, but bad actors tend to go for weak targets. Best bet is toughen up and score high on the “F around, Find out” graph.
Yeah this is why certain concept’s taken seriously like the Purge movies is nonsensical. Just making it legal to murder people for one day won’t magically make serial killers stop wanting to kill more outside of that one day.
There also is no mention usually of the staggering number of people that put themselves into positions to be victimized knowing it could happen.
Or the number of people that weren't victims that are convinced by others that they were, often by some professional with an agenda...
@@Quandry1 Got accused, huh? lol
Velma having a hate fetish makes so much sense, I can't believe I never noticed that. I think what happened is that the writers wanted a love square between the main characters, where Velma simultaneously wants everyone and is desired by everyone. However, she can't choose someone to date, because that would end the drama. Once she settles for a character she would have to close the door on the other two. So the writers' solution to that problem is forcing Velma to lose interest once somebody actually likes her back, or in Norville's case, she only became interested in him when he stopped simping for her. This keeps the "will they/won't they" plot going at the expense of giving Velma a hate fetish. And it definitely wasn't the writers' intention to give her that trait.
There is also some people who get insecure when they perceive people as no longer under their thumb.
Oh a point. that thumbnail there. I had been wondering about that scene because it was so out of place. Daphne ended on getting along with Velma last episode so why would she randomly attack Velma out of the blue? Especially if this is a character meant to always be shown to be right in the end.
So this show criticizes rich people, but mindy herself is a rich person?
Edit: I think that you can criticize a group you are a part of while being non hypocritical, it’s just Mindy is being hypocritical in this context,
Kinda makes your head explode when you think about it
Welcome.
best part is she had everything handed to her too, velma is literally a self insert of mindy
Rich people could criticizes rich people.
The problem is that the critic is made by someone worst.
NO, see, there's a difference because..... because..... SHE HAS MELANIN!
When I wrote my first short story, I meant for the main character to be an intrepid youngblood explorer, with no experience yet but a lot of passion. And while I did write that correctly, I also wrote how others saw him as I did. But after working on it a while I was able to distance myself from my work and look at it objectively. I then realized the protagonist was really a well-intentioned but unaware jerk who put others at risk for the sake of a glorious story to tell. At first I thought I fucked up, but then I realized I could write other characters to have appropriate reactions to his antics. Call him out for his obliviousness so he can see the error of his ways.
His arc then becomes learning to put others before himself, and realizing there can be glory in acts of selflessness. All that is to say, I realized audiences would see the flaws in the character I was initially unable to, and instead of bending the world to make him look perfect, I focused on his imperfections and incorporated it into the story.
Sounds like a good arc. How did it turn out?
Well don't leave us hanging. Tell us more!
@@elevate07 over the course of a series I'm still working on, he becomes a very reliable and loyal friend. He still gets in trouble because he's stubborn, but he makes a lot of friends on his journeys
@@ceinwenchandler4716 I had thought up that story to be a one-off, but it turned from a trilogy to a 6 part, then 9 part, then a 12 part series, and I'm still working on it
@@tannerdodge6029 Where can I read this or is this only for you?
11:00 It's quite concerning how Mindy keep insisting how Velma is so accurate about teenagers and high school when... f*ck no! There is no sane teenager who acts like any of this characters! Seriously!
Is it an american thing? Because I'm french and there is 0% of real teenager's life in this show to me. And I'm barely older than high school age!
Is this how Mindy sees teenagers? A bunch of dumb sociopathe who hangs out with other people only in the hope to gain something from them? Because I know teenagers can be... extreme, but they're not some sociopathes. On the opposite: they have strong feelings and moral code. For the best and the worst.
(And please. Velma an intelligent leader? Mindy talks like Velma was coaching every dumb members of the group to work for the better when in reality she developps toxic relationship with them to force them to work for her.)
as an american, no idk what kinda crack mindy is smoking 💀
Burger here. Not a single character in the show acts human, let alone like an American teenager.
not only is it inaccurate to teenagers in America, it's inaccurate to all teenagers and to life itself. Like yeah teens can be stupid and even mean sometimes but they're human, the characters in this show in no way act like humans.
I'm with the rest of the people who replied. This is not an American thing. It's just bad.
I wholeheartedly believe that Mindy wasn't acting at all in the office. Kelly is her real life persona.
The only good thing that came out of this horseshit is to show how truly show how strong the scooby do fandom and community truly is
Well, I am not a Scooby Doo fan, It never hits me... And I was shocked and horrified.
I can only imagine how the real fans feel.
@@MangaSt pain
At least Teen Titans Go knows that its characters are stupid and treats them as such. In fact, I'm starting to think Velma might be the adult cartoon equivalent to Teen Titans Go, if not even worse.
Ttg at least started off decent enough before it nosedived into the dumpster fire. Velma started off in the dumpster fire and didn’t move
Actually, Teen Titans Go is more mature than Velma.
Steven universe and Bluey are more mature than Velma and Teen Titans Go
@@cosmicspacething3474 from what I can tell Teen Titans Go fell because they took criticism towards their show as a challenge.
@@estebangutierrez160 SU and Bluey are like...actually mature shows tho that teach people how to grow
I’m honestly surprised you haven’t lost your sanity just yet, I was definitely on the verge of losing mine by the end of the show.
He survived High Guardian Spice, nothing is taking this man down.
Maybe left with his sanity, but definitely didn’t leave with his life after his visit to the Velma Dungeon
Mindy: Scooby Doo but no heart or soul. It's all about _me_ and _my_ cynical view of the world.
WB: What about the dog?
Mindy: What dog?
WB: Greenlit.
Because of the trailer, I thought that Velma was gonna get murdered and the rest of the Mistery Gang would have to discover who killed her. Honestly, this would be a lot more interesting.
I thought her and Norville would die and have the brains put in white people bodies.
The thing that I think I hate the most is that even in this piece of shit there _could_ have been potential, it just needed to be in the hands of people who aren't maliciously incompetent. Because there's the bones of a really interesting idea in a protagonist and serial killer villain sharing motives. A really simple way to do it would be that they both crave recognition; the killer for murder, Velma for her intellect.
At first Velma genuinely just wants to find her mother, but as her investigation takes her further than the police have ever gotten she starts to be praised and recognised, and her priority shifts from her mother's fate to the fame that comes from solving an 'unsolvable' case. The killer, meanwhile, escalates in violence and brutality at the same time, chasing the same high for being feared and using Velma to get it. A toxic symbiosis, where they use each other for their own fulfilment.
Wrap it up with a climax where Velma finds her mother and the killer and is forced to confront her own motives, needing to make the choice between saving her mother but losing the killer and the infamy that bringing him in would give her, or chasing the positive attention she's been increasingly craving but losing her mother.
So basically velma handles people like gumball handles its archnemesis
The sad thing is that there was a pretty easy way to let Velma stay as she was in the show while also explaining WHY she was constantly called “smart” while constantly acting like an idiot.
How? Simple. State, plainly and simply, that Velma struggles to think analytically in highly stressful situations. Then simply give her a reason to feel stressed (IE: have a close friend get abducted by the killer with a warning not to investigate), so she’s constantly struggling to stay calm enough to actually work through the mystery, thus letting the fact that others solve major parts of the mystery serve to show everyone contributing in helping Velma through her stressful situation instead of showing she’s a total idiot who lucks into the solution to a problem.
I'd actually like to offer a second term:
1) Narrative Gaslighting: When a creator *really* wants you to like (or hate) a story, character, or concept but rather than taking the time and skill to present it as something likeable, they simply create a world where everybody already agrees with them and everybody can't be wrong, right?
2) Franchise Bias: When a creator assumes that their specific depiction of a character, world, or concept inherently possesses all traits ever previously assigned to it. Hercules will be strong, Sherlock Holmes will be smart, Slenderman will be scary and therefore there is no need to establish these traits.
Velma is the first one, using a kind of in-show peer pressure to get you to side with Velma as a character. This is a creator trying to sway you by force of will, not by utilizing the medium. It also has a touch of two, such as Velma having the unearned mystery-solver reputation.
High Guardian Spice is the second, because it doesn't have to be an established franchise for this to happen. I would argue that the original creator had lived with that world for so long that they no more felt the need to establish that magic system than they would have felt the need to establish what a tricorder or lightsaber are, while Rosemary and Sage already carried as much inherent character as Spock and Han Solo. This could also mean they stopped questioning what were established concepts in their head. This is why, as much as it stings, you really need to get someone with no franchise knowledge who is not predisposed to liking your work to take a critical look at it.
I'd just stay in hell
The whole show is the equivalent of Mindy Khaling having an argument with herself and somehow losing.
Glad to see hell has wifi
will visit
also what did dave do to get into hell bruh
@@iguessmynameitsthis6247 he watched hgs and velma and so corrupted his soul
@@iguessmynameitsthis6247 We all go to hell when we die, that's what Mario said I think
@@LuigisLegend nah they got dave mixed up with mindy for watching too long
Velma's fetish for needing to be hated is a form of "masochism" actually. If I understand it right it's an aspect of the inferiority complex. Which given that Velma is Mindy Kaling's self-insert, it says a lot...
For some weird reason I've watched a lot of reactions to Velma, and you're the first one to bring up how Velma only likes other characters when they hate her and that Mindy probably has a hate fetish. I really think you struck gold there! Good observation!
Velma needs to make an appearance in HGS Abridged ep. 9
Velma is basically Rick Sanchez from _Rick and Morty_ . Someone who is framed as "intelligent" and/or "the good guy" even when they do objectively terrible things. And the characters who try to call out their actions are framed as "dumb" for not subscribing to their flawed/bullshit philosophy.
And her ugliness, I guess, is from Meg Griffin from Family Guy.
But even in rick and morty they have the self-awareness to call themselves out with plotlines showing just how much of a bad influence Rick is on the family
Rick is intelligent though and knows he's a bad person and ultimately a failure as a father and grandfather.
@@georgeprchal3924 this is true. Rick is competent. A complete monster who commits crimes against existence but a highly competent genius. They didn’t even bother to write Velma as competent at being a normal person
Rick is a horrible monster but his intelligence is undeniable. Velma is an idiot is written as an idiot, acts like an idiot, talks like an idiot. Yet everyone treats her as some kind of super genius.
Rick is a horrible monster but a super intelligent one and everyone treats him like hes super intelligent but also a complete asshole.
The narrative gaslighting this show does so much leaves me vindicated in the reception it absolutely deserves.
Fun fact: The Velma TV Tropes lists Velma as "Jerk with the Heart of a Jerk"-Not even the show's own TV Tropes can find anything good about the main character 😆😆😆
The fact that this reaction series has a better and more consistent storyline than the actual show
I would unironically take a second season of High Guardian Spice over Velma.
I'm pleased that both left and right can come together to dunk on this show's awfulness
I might get some hate for this take, but I don't care. I need to say this.
The way Dave describes narrative gaslighting is basically what She-ra and the princesses of power did with Catra.
The show and the characters try so hard to make us belive that she's this amazing character, when in reality she has more things in common with Velma than Mindy Velma with the original Velma.
The show wants the viewer to belive that Catra is a good person, who only plays the big bad guy part but her heart isn't into it, yet she enjoys watching people suffer, she's fine with the Horde killing innocents as long as she's in command and also acts like a huge d*ck with everyone around her.
The show wants us to belive that Catra cares a lot about her job as Force Captain and does her best to keep that position, when in reality she screws up her plans everytime Adora is involved, focusing on her and putting aside the mission.
And lastly but not less important, the show wants us to belive that Catra looooves Adora. Sure, all the guiltriping, gaslighting, insults, physical and mental abuse that Catra made Adora go through for ages, not just when they were enemies, is just Catra's way to be a tsundere.
Because when you love someone, you try to kill them for no reason. That's obvious!
From watching videos on the show I did comments mentioning how there is issues with Adora too. They say Adora and Catra are super close yet Adora pretty much never talks about Catra. people focus on how Adora offered Catra the chance to leave the Hoarde. but Catra could have left the Hoarde anytime as she knew what they actually did. so it basically Adora is saying Catra should leave behind her current life just to be with her as she gives about no other arguement for why Catra would want to leave. aside (I may be wrong as I did not watch it) saying she knows Catra is good which is basically gaslighting Catra by saying "I know you will make the right decision which is doing what I believe is right".
and there is also a laundry list of negative things Glimmer does and never apologizes for.
@@phantom-ri2tg I don't know who said those things, but I can assure you that Adora talks about Catra everytime she has the chance. They interact in almost every episode and when that doesn't happen, Adora thinks about Catra (but not in a romantic way. More like "Why is my best friend okay with people dying and I can't reach out to her?" or "If Catra does something bad it's all my fault").
Adora is Catra's caretaker, because Shadow Weaver (their mother figure) made Catra Adora's responsability when they were kids and Adora had to provide Catra the attention that she didn't recive from Shadow Weaver. Saying that Adora aslo gaslights Catra is like saying that the abuse victim is gaslighting the abuser because they don't want to belive they're putting their trust in the wrong person. Yes, for a while Adora still hopes that there's some good in Catra, but that's because she doesn't want to belive the person she grew up with is a monster.
Catra had many reasons to leave the Horde, but fans often argue that she was staying there because Adora was with her. So by the same logic, Catra should have left that place as soon as Adora asked her to.
But Catra shouldn't be Adora's responsability. If one of your friends does something bad, it's not your fault.
About Glimmer. Most of her problems started in season 4 (don't want to spoiler too much) but it's not true that she never apologizes. She apologizes everytime she does something wrong and her apologies are way better than one "I'm sorry for everything" who didn't bring to any change (again don't want to spoiler too much)
Yeah I couldn't really get behind her redemption after she was fully on board with genocide and war crimes and if I remember correctly, she wanted to activate a mission that could destroy the planet?
@@giorgiapetrei5421 Adora talks about Catra because Catra is blatant around.
@@angeloalvarez5520 She did. She activated the portal that Adora warned her about and when Catra realized that she was right and the world was ending, she continued to blame Adora and attacked her. They could have made Catra redemption arc start there and show that she wasn't THAT evil, but instead they double it all down.
RIP dude so sad to hear you died 😢
Of all the Velma dunk/analysis videos I’ve watched, yours does the best job of explaining _WHY_ Velma is bad and doesn’t work or make any sense. Instead of just riffing on the show (which is entirely warranted) you go into detail about how the poor writing creates a weak story. Narrative gaslighting perfectly explains the issues I noticed about the show as to how contradictory the text and framing were.
I really want a season 2, just to see if the writers actually listen to the criticism or double down on being incompetent
Me: (Checks the description)
Also Me: Oh no no no you can’t disguise!
Huh
I know this video is about velma but i was struck by how perfectly the concept of narrative gaslighting captured the problem with the show RWBY. Thanks for this.
When he was talking about the whole what the show trys to tell but we actually see i had to think about Marinette from Miraculous Ladybug.
Like the try to present her as this perfect person who can do nothing bad.
All i see is a stalkerish girl with an obsession and a hypocrit regarding her secret identity.
Remember kids!
If you are too Depressed, Commit Suicide!
(Ugh the message in volume 9 is terrible)
"Woe unto those who call evil good, and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with better." -Isaiah 5:20
"Nobody is going to watch Season 2."
I can think of *someone* who will...
I'm saving the term Narrative Gaslighting for future use.
I think that separating the art from the artist is fine when the art isn't part of what makes the artist so appealing or unappealing. If the stuff that encapsulates your feelings on the artist is present in (or in Velma's case prevalent throughout) the art, then it makes perfect sense not to separate them.
Additionally, it's not really a necessary separation in cases like this as the point is either to be more fair to the art (in the case of good art made by a bad artist) or to the artist (in the case of bad art made by an otherwise good artist). No one bothers to separate the two when either both are good or both are bad.
OMG this is exactly correct!
I was reading this popular interactive fiction and was often noticing this situation where a character's actions show them as one thing, but other characters (or even themselves) would comment on them in a completely different light. I know little about writing and was pondering if there is a name for this, cause I was feeling like I'm either crazy or am being gaslighted by the author.
Narrative gaslighting is the perfect term!!
Shows like this and even some movies show the big disconnect between Hollywood and the real world. Think about the people who create stuff like this, they live in affluent areas, surrounded by people who sing their praise but can get possibly fired for saying something that they do is wrong, or doesn't make sense. They go to award shows and banquets where they are talked about how great they are, and they have to praise each other and go on shows where the default is to praise the person, praise the show etc... well... I think they need more people in their lives telling them no... that was a bad idea... no don't do that, it will appear horrible to most people outside of Hollywood who don't have to sing your praises, even when it isn't actually funny or isn't cool.
Ohww... I was thinking of you recently. I wanted to rewatch your Essay videos again ^-^
Thank you ♥
Tbf hell seems like a better place than watching Velma or HGS(if you just watch HGS a bunch of times like David... )
The Big Lebowski is a better mystery and it kinda solves itself while everyone just meanders about. I said it, and I mean it.
it there is a think that piss-off the scooby doo fans more then cuting out scooby was velam being a terrible detective., wich disrespect all the previous encarnations of the caracther, wich she was the brain of the gang.
It could be worse. You could be on Mustafar. And the Dark Lord there has a habit of altering the deal (pray he doesn’t alter it any further).
😁
my definition of gaslighting is "when you lie to someone repeatedly until they change their view or belief on a subject"
I think good example where narrative and what character does are different is the boys. Homelander is just awful person but have great PR
oh you're right 'hate fetish' literally describes her
Say what you will about High Guardian Spice's flaws, at least it could have fixed them with some minor script editing (flesh out the main characters a bit more, add more lore to make the world stand out and explain some plot issues, ditch the unessesary side characters, tighten up the overarching plot, etc.). Velma on the other hand was clearly broken from the word "go" and would need to burn down, fall over, and sink into the swamp before anyone could start to improve upon it.
the soda drinker pro transitions give me life. thank you for continuing your great work
You know, its funny that you're in hell. When getting that presidential award, Mindy was thanking god...
but I'm fairly certain whatever help she got didn't come from the big man upstairs.
Damn, didn't know hell was just the Christmas cable fireplace...
The lake of fire
the wizard 101 background music does it for me
2 more? im so sorry
It’s pure agony but i have my reasons
@@guardianHQ I feel like this is just a coping mechanism for watching the show
i already thought your reviews were cool, but the soda drinker pro reference is just the icing on top of the cake i need to be able to tolerate seeing velma again
4:03
dissonance = lack of harmony / lack of "teamwork" if you will
Ludic = gameplay
Ludonarrative = about the relationship between gameplay and narrative
therefore
Ludonarrative dissonance = when the gameplay fights the narrative
Narrative dissonance = when the narrative fights itself / when *some elements* of the narrative fight *other elements* of the narrative
Btw, haven't finished the video yet, but im liking so far
How Many (potentially) good cartoons died for this show?
I know Close Enough, Mao Mao Heroes of Pure Heart, and an actual good Scooby-Doo movie.
As fun as it is to hate on shows like these we really need to stop giving these writers what they want, its obvious they want us to make videos bashing their shows as we need to watch it in order to actually bash it and watching it is what gives them money.
Also hate watching this show is still watching it and watching it is what gives them money so we should stop hate watching it too.
Bring piracy back to being common knowledge.
I still think the show is weirdly genius in what it did.
It formed a whole culture around it, and yeah, it is intentional - Velma is somehow still relevant, people still talk about it, and will probably still see it, just for the sake of hate-watching or "exploring" or even just reacting to it... And other people will love the reaction to it.
So, in a way, it's a show that rises up through sheer infamy, and it feels like the intended purpose - the show does everything "right" to upset ALL groups of people from all walks of life, and forces them to endlessly talk about it, binge hate it and binge react to it... It's spreading like wildfire, and oddly enough - I think it works for it as a show - it's a hate watch show.
This isn't made to be loved or cared about, this is made to cause the most cause among people as much as possible.
Still, as an animator, the show certainly makes me see which kind of emotions I might trigger with certain things... It's both important to know if I want to avoid it , as well as I ever be bold enough to attempt it.
For my animated show though, it's too weird and bizzare to make people feel anything other than "That's weird".
The thing is though I don't think hate watching works
Besides content creators making rage-bait content who in their right mind would willingly watch a show that they hate?
Most people will just ignore it outright or only watch other people make fun of it
I really would like to see numbers for the show because im 90% sure that the majority of the people who are complaining about it have not and will never watch it
And if im right and this is the case where is the financial incentive to be hated?
@@thecultofcaged Yeah, it'll be very interesting to see if those shows actually managed to get to their financial goals.
Still, what sure is - They do manage to generate allot of attention, that's obvious.
The question if it was worth it matters allot, but, the attention itself, is almost artful in what it does.
Another big thing to ask - how long will people keep talking about it?
I absolutely love love your channel
The original scooby doo show, the mystery gang were a group of ppl who were all different( except maybe Fred and Daphne) like, the kind of ppl you wouldn’t expect to ever hang out, let alone be friends. Yet they were friends who cared about each other, and for any faults they had( mainly for comedic purpose) they liked each other. As a child, it showed me that ppl and their background does not need to be a barrier to friendship.
These kind of reboots have ppl not only not being friends because of such things, not only actively using such as an excuse for treating them bad, but only show (fake)friendship to ppl who can give you something you want
chefs kiss on the knucklebones backing music
Narrative gaslighting. I love that as a descriptor for Velma xD it’s so accurate
Velma 2023 is like they wrote Toko Fukawa without the character development and the writers not trying to pretend her flaws are excusable due to a traumatic backstory
9:25 I just realised that this is Too Stupid to be even considered Stupid, I vocally laughed.
Velma's barely disguised humiliation fetish
My theory is Velma is an anti animation show created and used as a pretex to never do animation again. (because it coste more than a live sitcom)
Considering the whole state of the American industry (Hollywood essentially), they are run by corporate money pinchiing obsessed heirs that had nerver create the industry, juste profite following a premade plan that is becoming obsolete. The 'Woke Buzz' would have worked in the heighties and nineties, maybe even a the beginning of the millenia, but not anymore.
This whole show was greenlighted to drag animation even more down so that executive can pretend it doesn't work. It's a hate move against fan of animation and Scoobidoo, but it is essentially a massive attempt a gaslighting the industry to get ride of a merly less cheaper alternative to film making (Yes I do confond series making and movie making because they basically used the same tools) than paying live actors to do act and pretend.
God bless you for doing all the work to keep the memory of High Guardian Spice alive
I was Afk when you mentioned the buffoon getting lucky happenstance and immediately thought Satan Hercule then I came to look at the screen and saw my boy up XD
This is my issues with Avatar 2 as well. The movie keeps SAYING the military is powerful and a threat, but the movie keeps SHOWING the military being absolutely helpless against the Na'vi. Na'vi are depicted as having flat-out invulnerability to bullets while they are running and the Na'vi can completely crush the military even when they aren't using guerilla warfare tactics.
until the oldest son gets shot once and dies. they're invulnerable to bullets only when dying wouldn't cause much drama
@@theunderstatement6842 Even then, that happened when the character stopped to hop over a fence. Which is why I specified "invulnerability to bullets while they are running"
Everyone, please don’t harass Mindy.
She will get turn on.
Some weird pidgeon person needs to train birds to poop on her every day. Make her think the universe hates her.
@@kyleellis1825 if you do that, she would get off on that. She made Velma, so people can hate her and she has the greatest, being hated fetish I ever seen. If god hates her, that would be great joy in her life.
@@MKTyphon I said the universe, not some made up person no one can agree one.
@@kyleellis1825 yeah I don’t believe in god too, but I was referring to the concept of god, or a harbinger of fate itself.
I think Mindy’s self-insert has a hate fetish because Mindy might have something similar to what entitled Christian people have, martyr/persecution syndrome. If people hate and bash you, it’s actually a GOOD thing since it means you’re in the right, you’re revealing an uncomfortable ‘truth’ and all your suffering will eventually be worth it when all of your bullies are proven wrong and get ‘crushed’ by guilt and/or punishment. It’s a desire to be hated for the sake of feeling special. It’s a weird psychological phenomenon.
Imagine being one of the most privileged people in Hollywood and then making an entire show pretending that you're a victim or have any idea what hardship that you didn't bring on yourself is
I love your video but I can’t stop imaging Mordecai from regular show when listening to your voice
that's what I was saying, I thought I was going insane for a second...
Was that a soda drinker pro reference?
JoJo had an actual Nazi in the show and he was a better human being than Velma.
There is no way this show wasn't made for propaganda to fuel the hate and certain people.
So with the first definition of Narrative Gaslighting, does that also include when a studio or creator lies about something to draw interest into their creation, only to treat the audience as being in the wrong for feeling like they were being lied to? For example, Masters of the Universe Revelations trailer showing clips only from the first episode to trick us into thinking He Man was in the show, only for him to die off and we get stuck with Teela instead?
That would fall more under false advertising or trailer bait. Narrative gaslighting focuses on contradictions within the story caused by poor writing.
holy shit ive been lowkey losing my mind watching your video because you snuck w101 commons music into the background and i thought it was running in the background of my computer! XD
No wonder the show was so bad. Velma WANTED you to hate it.
Damn, that’s the first time I saw you do something other than high Guardian spice, how long has it been since it’s been released?
So you’re now Velma hq?
It’s really funny to notice the hate fetish thing. I love the idea that the writers were so unaware of how their characters are coming across that they accidentally make a character fall in love with being treated like shit
Smh you can't just use the Scamboli transition without me noticing.
Also, Fred changed as a person
Oh. You’re back. Sweet. Happy to see you man.
Yah yah can't wait for season 2.
Am i the only person that finds odd that Fred and his parents have black eyebrows? even thou every other character in the show have the correspondent color for their eyebrows. Given the only exception i can think of is daphne, who has her hair tinted..... is all of fred family supposed to have their hair bleached?
I thought it was pretty common for blonde haired characters to have dark eyebrows? Pretty sure it’s been a thing for years to point out.
To answer the question, probably to make it easier on the animators in regards to character expressions. Eyes are a big thing when it comes to conveying emotions, so they probably darken the eyebrows to emphasize those emotions.
@@jendoe9436 perhaps, but its still inconsistent,and i dont think using black eybrows is a blonde thing, but an style one, all the previous freds had black eyebrows, but so did all the other characters. And its rare they justified it for daphne but not Fred
Most blondes have dark eyebrows.
@@kyleellis1825 I wanna point out dark and black arent synonims. Sure black is dark, but dark aint necessarily black. Blonde eyebrows are often shades of brown, but im yet to see someone blonde who hasnt dyed their hair with black eyebrows.
I just realized with your comment that both you and the earlier guy used dark instead of black, although i was saying black all the time.
No offense, this kind of thing happens.
@@miser2570 They are synonyms. They just aren't perfect matches. Synonyms are just venn diagrams of overlapping similarities. because have you looked at a thesaurus lately? Half the selected words barely match even if you squint.
My brother has black eyebrows. His head and arms are blonde. the rest of his hair is practically jet black. He spends a lot of time outside so his blonde hair gets even more faded in the summer and it REALLY stands out.
Senpai noticed me!
Velma has what I'm going to call the Daria Dilemma, as Velma's situation reminds me of the character, Daria, but done poorly.
Daria herself admits in one episode, "I actively work to make people dislike me so I won't feel bad when they do." It's a character flaw that stems from Daria's own insecurities, which I imagine come from her experiences with her younger sister, Quinn, among other things.
Quinn is the "prettier and more popular" sister, and Daria knows she will inevitably be compared to her and frowned upon for not being more like Quinn. So rather than just sitting there and taking it, Daria acts sarcastic and jaded to preemptively push people away BEFORE the comparisons with Quinn start happening.
Velma, at least superficially, has a similar problem. The show makes it clear that Velma is not as physically attractive or charismatic as some of the other female students, and the fact that she is not white does not help her in HER mind. So she doubles down on bad behavior, thinking, "If people are going to hate me anyway, I might as well give them a real reason to do so."
The problem with Velma when compared to Daria is the Velma writers do not treat this character flaw as a flaw. Velma, despite her bad behavior, always gets what she wants in the end. Daria actually does suffer some consequences for being so jaded. Velma does not.
Mindy is Velma and Velma is Mindy.
Almost every failure of the show can be explained with the above.
Something I like in a story is where a very clearly good person who wants to do what's right over time becomes more morally grey as they end up adapting to the world around them. Then characters around them begin to notice the change but don't want to say anything because they either have too much faith in them and think they're doing it for a reason, or because they're starting to become scared of them. Then this all keeps building until eventually something happens and this character snaps and crosses a line that could never be justified.
Something where the story itself acknowledges the change. Velma, unfortunately, is not that story.
The weird thing is that although the show tries to present Velma as the smartest person in the show, they put in a line that suggests she's copying Norville's homework. Why? It's possible their intent was that Norville is sending Velma homework to complete, but it isn't presented that way, and we don't see her doing that. I can only assume this was Kaling using her own experience without realising that this is the opposite of what she's trying to present Velma as. It just adds to the idea that Velma isn't intelligent at all.
2:38 hello rwby