To me this is the pure proof of JMS' unique skill at writing this kind of TV show. Having your lead actor depart for medial reasons and a couple of years later pulling off an episode like this that works so well and allows you to continue writing a clear story arc is amazing. Babylon 5 was not only the first american TV show to have a serialized story arc, but even after 30 years it is one of the few shows to pull it off properly.
Re: Londo's end - If you remember ep 3x9 Point of No Return, Lady Morella gave Londo a prophecy, a way to avoid what was to come, the last part was: "...you must surrender to yourself to your greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy you. Now if you have failed all the others, that is your final chance at redemption." She also predicted that Vir would be Emperor as well...
Delenn gave Sheridan her own time stabiliser and put the suit on herself. That's how Delenn ends up in the suit helping Zathras. There is a version of The Gathering where in Lyta's scan of Kosh, she sees Kosh greeting Sinclair as "Entil'za Valenn". Valenn's prophecies are all based on Sinclair having actually experienced it. He formed the Grey Council, united the Minbari people and became the template for all future Minbari!
@@wrorchestra1 I put in a soiler alert for this episode but This does not speak of anything that we dont know at the end of this episode and there is no statement in the show saying this. It is a common consution of this episode.
@@JCinLapel A lot of what you have just spoiled is is not revealed until the season 4 episode “Atonement”, where it is a major revelation. It is not implied by this episode at all, although you can infer lots of things backwards once you know.
@@niiickwalsh I deleted the comment. Not worth an string of debates but will say it said nothing that could not be put together by Lenners statement in season 3 episode 1 and this episode.
This episode shows how much JMS was thinking the series through in a way most series creators never do. It truly started a trend which others try to follow, and though they might have more budget, still in the end, fail to do as well because they still are not as detailed in their own preparations for their show.
This is one of the coolest sci-fi series ever. How hard does it blow your mind when these things come back around to full circle. It's all so worth the payoff!
In the DVD commentaries, Michael Straczynski mentioned that he had an escape plan for all the main characters. We saw it when Michael O'Hare had his medical issues, and again when Andrea Thompson (Talia Winters) decided that she wanted out. That is the beauty of having one writer for the show, one who has the whole story planned out before they even started filming.
Having one writer is key. But having that writer having a flexible enough plan to account for key characters exiting, and still making the final product all the more amazing for it, is just Next Level.
As I recall, Bruce Boxleitner asked jms why Sheridan ended up getting beat up the whole episode and Sinclair ended up basically becoming a deity. Jms responded "seniority". One of the great things jms does with prophecy and time travel - you know what will happen (e.g. G'kar and Londo dying choking each other), but *how* you get there is still a surprise. Love this show! Your reaction was so great - you clearly love this show!
One thing i notice on my last viewing was that sinclair/valen "the one that was" looked minbari, Delenn "the one who is" a hybrid of human and minbari and Sheridan "the one who will be" human.
One thought is to travel through time someone needs to control it. Sinclair is busy changing into Valen, so who is controlling B4 going through space? That's right, Zathras.
The very first episode, MIDNIGHT ON THE FIRING LINE, shows Londo talking about his dream of he and G'Kar locked in combat, hands around each others' throats. Three years later... the grenade goes off. We salute you, JMS.
Love your uninhibited reactions.... there are a bunch of WTF moments here. 🙂 JMS is an amazing writer and these episodes pull together a ton of story threads that were left laying around in previous seasons/episodes. While at the same time, give you a ton more questions! THIS is binge-worth TV at it's best, and we had to wait a week between episodes! Season 3 will just continue to blow your mind. There are a couple less-strong episodes, but even in them, the story is pushed forward at a breakneck pace. Trust all of us leaving comments - you ain't seen nothing yet!
Fun fact: the blue space suit we see here was originally built for (and I believe used in) the film "2010: The Year We Make Contact" (1984). It, in turn, was a recreation of a similar space suit used in the film "2001: A Space Odyssey"
Sinclair was outside the whole time. Follow the events as they go and it'll make sense. Delenn swaps the suit and her good stabilizer with Sheridan's. Delenn only sees herself in the flash forward. She doesn't see who that is just like the audience. You'll find out soon enough.
I expect the Delenn who is from the present does experience exactly what we see her experience, it's just that at this point in time (the "War WIthout End" point) she has no way of knowing who the person is who enters the room and greets her.
Remember, in the first episode, Londo told Sinclair that Centauri know how they'll die and that it comes to them in a dream. He then described his dream as dying with his hands around G'Kar's neck (and vice versa) and that they both die.
13:12 Also small detail here: those are encounter suits of both Kosh and Ulkesh. When Kosh said that "I have always been here." it wasn't a cryptic statement as much as it was literal: thanks to this time travel, he's been involved with Babylon-project 1000 years before it was even conceived.
Oh,yes. You just got a whole new perspective on Londo's dream vision of being killed by G'Kar. Great scene. JMS is so good at showing the end result, then surprise us as to how we get there, I love that way of story telling. Vir! Yes, remember the prophesy? War Without End is one of those (double) episodes that will stay with you. Yes! Sinclair is Valen. The moment it dawns for Marcus is great. So many small fun moments in this one: "this is wrong tool" "we're all mad" and many more. Yes, you *should* re-watch Babylon Squared, the continuity is not 100% perfect, but beautiful. Be seeing you!
This episode was transformative for me and my appreciation of what TV adaptations of good SF could do! BTW: The entire plot from 1Myer previous and to the future with details closer to now were on index cards on JMS' production office shelf, nobody ever looked, apparently!
Now go back and watch the final scene of "Babylon Squared" from season one and listen to what Ivanova says - "Next time, I'M going and Garibaldi can stay behind!" And this came true.
Dylan was the one in the blue suit who Sinclair reached out to. Zathris then gave her the repaired time stabilizer to her because she gave Sheridan her time stabilizer when he reappeared at the White Star's entry point Swapping places with him.
This is a WONDERFUL wrap up & send off for Jeffrey Sinclair! While it DOES have a handful of small "continuity errors" with Babylon Squared that you have to ignore, it was still excellently done! IMO
For example - Delenn touching the aged Sinclair. For the life of me, I will NEVER understand why that was filmed differently in WWE Part 2. Also in Babylon Squared, they mention a flash of light and Zathras was suddenly there. This was not what happend in WWE Part 2.
@@tulinfirenze1990Exactly! I know that the original "touch" was meant to insinuate to the viewers that Delenn & Sinclair had become a "romantic couple" . (Sheridan being a mostly "copy/paste" replacement for Sinclair) But in the current context, it could have STILL been done & the audience would have interpreted is as a "reassuring/ comforting touch" of a Friend! (Heck! Fathers & sons and guy friends do that same hand on the shoulder thing, from time to time.) It WOULD have worked. Also? (I'm not 100% CERTAIN of this.) But wasn't Delenn wearing a different (but similar) outfit? If so, WHY couldn't they just pull the original one out of storage for her to wear?
Looking forward to Babylon 5 rewatch of "Babylon Squared" after watching "War Without End: Part Two". It is worthwhile. But remember, Squared was written before the change in cast. And it all worked!
I think "seen it coming" meant the detail that Londo *asks* G'Kar to kill him, because there's no way that Londo can kill the watcher who is attached to him.
@@garanceadrosehn9691 you're probably right on that. I'm sure at the beginning everyone read that vision as the culmination of a history of mutual strife and hatred, rather than an act of mercy.
When Sheridan was saying "Watch your back Michael", he's try to warn Garibaldi about the guy that we already know shot him in the back. But that attempt to fix the past also failed. Londo didn't want to kill (or even hurt) either Sinclair or Delenn, but he needed to *pretend* he was going to kill them due to that Shadow-related being who is constantly attached to him. He needed to pretend to be hostile. In the original script Sheridan was always supposed to be Valen, but I think he was supposed to disappear at the end of Season two instead of Season one. The off-screen medical issues forced a lot of changes, but in this case the basic story arc stayed the same.
It's a bit ridiculous that Sinclair would risk altering the timeline to prevent Garibaldi from being shot, knowing he'll fully recover, and do nothing to prevent the Earth-Minbari war. Also, "watch your back" is not exactly foolproof.
@@miller-joel - Preventing the war is a huge deal, but could have massively bad side-effects. Let's say he left a letter to the grey council in an envelope which said "Do not open for 998 years", and then the letter says "If a foreign race attacks one of your ships without provocation, don't go to full-scale war over it". _(I'm sure Valen could come up with better wording than that...)_ Without the war the Minbari wouldn't have come across Sheridan and discovered his connection to Minbari, and Babylon 4 (and Valen himself) would have never been sent back in time to be a tremendous asset in the earlier war. Saving Garabaldi seems relatively minor risk compared to that, although really even that minor change could have had major ramifications to the larger story arc. For instance, maybe the earth president might not have been assassinated, and surely that'd disrupt the timeline!
@@garanceadrosehn9691 ANYTHING could have massive consequences. You either mess with the timeline, or you don't. If Sinclair wanted to prevent the war, he would have changed the custom of meeting new aliens with the gun ports open. At the very least. You don't know what would have happened. Maybe they would have met, not gone to war, and still collaborated on a massive space station. There's no way to know. He was not "saving" Garibaldi, because Garibaldi clearly survived and fully recovered. And yeah, changing Garibaldi's life would/could have had massive consequences. So it was a huge risk for no reward.
@@miller-joel - I'm just saying that it would be immediately obvious to Sinclair that trying to prevent the entire war would have massive unforeseeable consequences. Especially since he wouldn't have any way to prevent the Earth/Minbari war until *after* he had already become Valen and *already* engaged in the earlier Shadow war. Trying to save Garabaldi *from being shot in the back* _(yes, I know Garabaldi did not die)_ could have seemed relatively minor to him, although from our perspective it's clear that also could have had significant unforeseeable consequences. From *Sinclair's* perspective Garabaldi got shot in the back, and then Sinclair was wisked away to Minbar. He hasn't even been at B5 to see the events since Garabaldi got shot, never mind all the events in the Vorlon/Shadow war which won't happen until after Sinclair is transported into the past. All I'm saying is that it's quite understandable that he'd try to save his close friend Garabaldi from a very traumatic and life-threatening event. I'm not saying it was a brilliant move in the history of the B5 universe, I'm saying it is understandable for the character Sinclair. It's pretty likely I would have done the same.
@@garanceadrosehn9691 Why do I have to repeat myself? Sinclair knows very well that ANY change to the timeline, no matter how insignificant may appear, could have major consequences. It's not just his perspective or ours, it's just a fact. He obviously knows of Garibaldi's condition. It's not a State secret. Doesn't matter if he's on Minbar, he knows Garibaldi fully recovered. If he didn't know, he could and should have asked. So again, there was ZERO reward and unknown risk.
And this is the scientific explanation for the "souls," implied but not really explained. When the Minbari interrogated Sinclair, and used the Triluminary, it indicated he had not only a Minbari soul, but the soul of Valen. And they looked into other humans, and found that some had partial or complete Minbari souls. But is the Triluminary reading souls, or DNA? Obviously, Sinclair has all of Valen's DNA, because Sinclair is Valen. Humans with "whole Minbari souls" might be relatively close relatives of Sinclair, those with "partial Minbari souls" might be more distantly related, sharing much less DNA with Sinclair. You can look at it either way suits you, which is a subtle touch to the storytelling I like.
Ahhh, a most intricate Bootstrap Paradox. Who wrote Beethoven's Fifth? :) For an atheist, JMS sure took his Jesuit education to heart. There is A LOT of Catholic philosophy and imagery in this series.
Everyone is going to have their own list of Crowning Moments of Awesome. This is definitely on my list, along with [REDACTED], [REDACTED], [REDACTED], and [REDACTED].
Yeah, that is JMS for you, Drops hints and mysteries and keeps you entertained with many stories until he decides to unload a nuke on you and tie everything together. Usually involving much jaw dropping.
Londo.... atonement doesn't come cheap. I mean, even if you just include everything prior to this episode and *_nothing else,_* he's got a LOT of blood on his hands.
Londo didn't really have all those Narns killed - I mean, yes, but not intentionally. First time he asked Morden for help, he was shocked at what happened - he had not wanted them killed, he just wanted "the problem solved" and was mostly guilty of not thinking things through. The war was certainly something he had a part in starting, but again, he didn't intentionally start a war, he was just a cog in the machine. The attack on the Narn home world was also not Londo - that was done by Lord Refa, and again Londo was horrified. So yes, he contributed to it all, but none of it was his "plan" - he was like some guy spouting off racist remarks and being angry and all that but never expecting it to really harm anyone and then someone else listens to him and goes on a killing rampage - yes, the one who did the talking is responsible for setting things in motion - but they are not directly responsible for the deaths. Londo is kind of the same thing. He did a lot of bad stuff, but he wasn't the one who was evil.
you ASSUME that Delenn and Sheridan have not had some alone time we have not known about - but she COULD be pregnant already.... not saying she is, but she could be.......
The fun really starts when you start thinking about the triluminary which contains the piece of Sinclair's comm thingy that verifies authorized usage by checking genetics. The Mimbari believe this indicates Mimbari souls, but really Sinclair just had a lot of children. That's why their souls seemed to diminish with each generation, the genetics are being diluted. Even better they said in an earlier episode that they had multiple triluminaries. Sinclair only had parts for one, but he brought at least one with him, so every loop the number of triluminaries increases by one... how many triluminaries did they say they had?
To me this is the pure proof of JMS' unique skill at writing this kind of TV show. Having your lead actor depart for medial reasons and a couple of years later pulling off an episode like this that works so well and allows you to continue writing a clear story arc is amazing. Babylon 5 was not only the first american TV show to have a serialized story arc, but even after 30 years it is one of the few shows to pull it off properly.
The scene when Marcus realizes Sinclair is Valen always gets me. "Minbari not born of Minbari..."
"You talk like a Minbari, commander." Neroon, Legacies. Season 1.
@@miller-joel Yep. B5 is show that needs to be watched twice to fully appreciate all the foreshadowing and planning.
@@JimmyDaKoik Only twice?
@@miller-joel At least twice lol
Re: Londo's end - If you remember ep 3x9 Point of No Return, Lady Morella gave Londo a prophecy, a way to avoid what was to come, the last part was: "...you must surrender to yourself to your greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy you. Now if you have failed all the others, that is your final chance at redemption." She also predicted that Vir would be Emperor as well...
Spoiler....
@@FSMDog ??? Shelley is on 3x17 & I only referenced what happened in 3x09, where's the spoiler?
Delenn gave Sheridan her own time stabiliser and put the suit on herself. That's how Delenn ends up in the suit helping Zathras.
There is a version of The Gathering where in Lyta's scan of Kosh, she sees Kosh greeting Sinclair as "Entil'za Valenn".
Valenn's prophecies are all based on Sinclair having actually experienced it. He formed the Grey Council, united the Minbari people and became the template for all future Minbari!
@@JCinLapel that requires a spoiler alert warning for those who haven't seen the rest of the show yet, hence why I didn't mention it.
@@wrorchestra1 I put in a soiler alert for this episode but This does not speak of anything that we dont know at the end of this episode and there is no statement in the show saying this. It is a common consution of this episode.
@@JCinLapel A lot of what you have just spoiled is is not revealed until the season 4 episode “Atonement”, where it is a major revelation. It is not implied by this episode at all, although you can infer lots of things backwards once you know.
@@niiickwalsh I deleted the comment. Not worth an string of debates but will say it said nothing that could not be put together by Lenners statement in season 3 episode 1 and this episode.
This shows the value of patient storytelling. Two years we've waited for this, and the impact when we finally get the full story is amazing.
You also have to wait from the first episode to almost the end of the series to understand the context of G'Kar and Londo killing each other.
This episode shows how much JMS was thinking the series through in a way most series creators never do. It truly started a trend which others try to follow, and though they might have more budget, still in the end, fail to do as well because they still are not as detailed in their own preparations for their show.
This is one of the coolest sci-fi series ever. How hard does it blow your mind when these things come back around to full circle. It's all so worth the payoff!
Mainstream scifi space opera fans dont know what they're missing!
In the DVD commentaries, Michael Straczynski mentioned that he had an escape plan for all the main characters. We saw it when Michael O'Hare had his medical issues, and again when Andrea Thompson (Talia Winters) decided that she wanted out. That is the beauty of having one writer for the show, one who has the whole story planned out before they even started filming.
Having one writer is key. But having that writer having a flexible enough plan to account for key characters exiting, and still making the final product all the more amazing for it, is just Next Level.
A trap door for the main character in the story is one hell of a trap door.
19:35 There's one timeline. Sinclair was always going to become Valen.
As I recall, Bruce Boxleitner asked jms why Sheridan ended up getting beat up the whole episode and Sinclair ended up basically becoming a deity. Jms responded "seniority".
One of the great things jms does with prophecy and time travel - you know what will happen (e.g. G'kar and Londo dying choking each other), but *how* you get there is still a surprise. Love this show!
Your reaction was so great - you clearly love this show!
Babylon squared and WwE make the most ambitious 3 part episode in television history, and they totally stuck the landing here.
We live for the one…
It’s a master story teller that can tell you the end of a story and still surprise you as they tell it.
Still the best sci-fi plot twist I have ever seen.
One thing i notice on my last viewing was that sinclair/valen "the one that was" looked minbari, Delenn "the one who is" a hybrid of human and minbari and Sheridan "the one who will be" human.
One thought is to travel through time someone needs to control it. Sinclair is busy changing into Valen, so who is controlling B4 going through space?
That's right, Zathras.
The very first episode, MIDNIGHT ON THE FIRING LINE, shows Londo talking about his dream of he and G'Kar locked in combat, hands around each others' throats.
Three years later... the grenade goes off.
We salute you, JMS.
Love your uninhibited reactions.... there are a bunch of WTF moments here. 🙂
JMS is an amazing writer and these episodes pull together a ton of story threads that were left laying around in previous seasons/episodes. While at the same time, give you a ton more questions! THIS is binge-worth TV at it's best, and we had to wait a week between episodes!
Season 3 will just continue to blow your mind. There are a couple less-strong episodes, but even in them, the story is pushed forward at a breakneck pace. Trust all of us leaving comments - you ain't seen nothing yet!
Fun fact: the blue space suit we see here was originally built for (and I believe used in) the film "2010: The Year We Make Contact" (1984). It, in turn, was a recreation of a similar space suit used in the film "2001: A Space Odyssey"
Sinclair was outside the whole time. Follow the events as they go and it'll make sense. Delenn swaps the suit and her good stabilizer with Sheridan's.
Delenn only sees herself in the flash forward. She doesn't see who that is just like the audience. You'll find out soon enough.
I expect the Delenn who is from the present does experience exactly what we see her experience, it's just that at this point in time (the "War WIthout End" point) she has no way of knowing who the person is who enters the room and greets her.
I'd love to see an edit of Babylon squared and wwe's babylon 4 moments edited chronologically
@@Yonatan_Max Which chronology though?
Oh Londo´s performance is so great and heartbreaking, such a great scene.
P.S: I really like that Jeff goes 1000 years back, but his letter is 900 old...he had a whole life back then.
Remember, in the first episode, Londo told Sinclair that Centauri know how they'll die and that it comes to them in a dream. He then described his dream as dying with his hands around G'Kar's neck (and vice versa) and that they both die.
“He is the closed circle. He is returning to the beginning”. If this episode doesn’t ef with your mind, nothing will. 😂
As a kid I was too dumb to understand that line, but now I know that Ulkesh said that because he had already met Valen in the past.
Everything a Vorlon says makes sense... eventually.
13:12 Also small detail here: those are encounter suits of both Kosh and Ulkesh. When Kosh said that "I have always been here." it wasn't a cryptic statement as much as it was literal: thanks to this time travel, he's been involved with Babylon-project 1000 years before it was even conceived.
Oh,yes. You just got a whole new perspective on Londo's dream vision of being killed by G'Kar. Great scene. JMS is so good at showing the end result, then surprise us as to how we get there, I love that way of story telling.
Vir! Yes, remember the prophesy?
War Without End is one of those (double) episodes that will stay with you. Yes! Sinclair is Valen. The moment it dawns for Marcus is great.
So many small fun moments in this one:
"this is wrong tool"
"we're all mad"
and many more.
Yes, you *should* re-watch Babylon Squared, the continuity is not 100% perfect, but beautiful.
Be seeing you!
This episode was transformative for me and my appreciation of what TV adaptations of good SF could do!
BTW: The entire plot from 1Myer previous and to the future with details closer to now were on index cards on JMS' production office shelf, nobody ever looked, apparently!
Now go back and watch the final scene of "Babylon Squared" from season one and listen to what Ivanova says - "Next time, I'M going and Garibaldi can stay behind!" And this came true.
Fun fact: Sinclair being Valen is also the reason why the Minbari surrendered at the end of the Earth-Minbari war.
Dylan was the one in the blue suit who Sinclair reached out to. Zathris then gave her the repaired time stabilizer to her because she gave Sheridan her time stabilizer when he reappeared at the White Star's entry point Swapping places with him.
What an absolutely joyous reaction video. That was so much fun! Thank you!
This is a HUGE episode.
Zathrus warn you, but no one listen to Zathrus.
Zathras does not like to be called Zathrus.
Great reaction! Love how you appreciate this amazing series! And this extra amazing episode!! 🙂
This is a WONDERFUL wrap up & send off for Jeffrey Sinclair!
While it DOES have a handful of small "continuity errors" with Babylon Squared that you have to ignore, it was still excellently done! IMO
For example - Delenn touching the aged Sinclair. For the life of me, I will NEVER understand why that was filmed differently in WWE Part 2. Also in Babylon Squared, they mention a flash of light and Zathras was suddenly there. This was not what happend in WWE Part 2.
@@tulinfirenze1990Exactly! I know that the original "touch" was meant to insinuate to the viewers that Delenn & Sinclair had become a "romantic couple" . (Sheridan being a mostly "copy/paste" replacement for Sinclair)
But in the current context, it could have STILL been done & the audience would have interpreted is as a "reassuring/ comforting touch" of a Friend! (Heck! Fathers & sons and guy friends do that same hand on the shoulder thing, from time to time.)
It WOULD have worked.
Also? (I'm not 100% CERTAIN of this.) But wasn't Delenn wearing a different (but similar) outfit? If so, WHY couldn't they just pull the original one out of storage for her to wear?
Looking forward to Babylon 5 rewatch of "Babylon Squared" after watching "War Without End: Part Two". It is worthwhile. But remember, Squared was written before the change in cast. And it all worked!
"Who could have seen this coming?"
Londo did. Very early on he talked about the vision of how he would die.
I think "seen it coming" meant the detail that Londo *asks* G'Kar to kill him, because there's no way that Londo can kill the watcher who is attached to him.
@@garanceadrosehn9691 you're probably right on that. I'm sure at the beginning everyone read that vision as the culmination of a history of mutual strife and hatred, rather than an act of mercy.
It is, as you say, a matter of perspective.
When Sheridan was saying "Watch your back Michael", he's try to warn Garibaldi about the guy that we already know shot him in the back. But that attempt to fix the past also failed.
Londo didn't want to kill (or even hurt) either Sinclair or Delenn, but he needed to *pretend* he was going to kill them due to that Shadow-related being who is constantly attached to him. He needed to pretend to be hostile.
In the original script Sheridan was always supposed to be Valen, but I think he was supposed to disappear at the end of Season two instead of Season one. The off-screen medical issues forced a lot of changes, but in this case the basic story arc stayed the same.
It's a bit ridiculous that Sinclair would risk altering the timeline to prevent Garibaldi from being shot, knowing he'll fully recover, and do nothing to prevent the Earth-Minbari war. Also, "watch your back" is not exactly foolproof.
@@miller-joel - Preventing the war is a huge deal, but could have massively bad side-effects. Let's say he left a letter to the grey council in an envelope which said "Do not open for 998 years", and then the letter says "If a foreign race attacks one of your ships without provocation, don't go to full-scale war over it". _(I'm sure Valen could come up with better wording than that...)_
Without the war the Minbari wouldn't have come across Sheridan and discovered his connection to Minbari, and Babylon 4 (and Valen himself) would have never been sent back in time to be a tremendous asset in the earlier war.
Saving Garabaldi seems relatively minor risk compared to that, although really even that minor change could have had major ramifications to the larger story arc. For instance, maybe the earth president might not have been assassinated, and surely that'd disrupt the timeline!
@@garanceadrosehn9691 ANYTHING could have massive consequences. You either mess with the timeline, or you don't.
If Sinclair wanted to prevent the war, he would have changed the custom of meeting new aliens with the gun ports open. At the very least.
You don't know what would have happened. Maybe they would have met, not gone to war, and still collaborated on a massive space station. There's no way to know.
He was not "saving" Garibaldi, because Garibaldi clearly survived and fully recovered. And yeah, changing Garibaldi's life would/could have had massive consequences. So it was a huge risk for no reward.
@@miller-joel - I'm just saying that it would be immediately obvious to Sinclair that trying to prevent the entire war would have massive unforeseeable consequences. Especially since he wouldn't have any way to prevent the Earth/Minbari war until *after* he had already become Valen and *already* engaged in the earlier Shadow war.
Trying to save Garabaldi *from being shot in the back* _(yes, I know Garabaldi did not die)_ could have seemed relatively minor to him, although from our perspective it's clear that also could have had significant unforeseeable consequences. From *Sinclair's* perspective Garabaldi got shot in the back, and then Sinclair was wisked away to Minbar. He hasn't even been at B5 to see the events since Garabaldi got shot, never mind all the events in the Vorlon/Shadow war which won't happen until after Sinclair is transported into the past.
All I'm saying is that it's quite understandable that he'd try to save his close friend Garabaldi from a very traumatic and life-threatening event. I'm not saying it was a brilliant move in the history of the B5 universe, I'm saying it is understandable for the character Sinclair. It's pretty likely I would have done the same.
@@garanceadrosehn9691 Why do I have to repeat myself? Sinclair knows very well that ANY change to the timeline, no matter how insignificant may appear, could have major consequences. It's not just his perspective or ours, it's just a fact.
He obviously knows of Garibaldi's condition. It's not a State secret. Doesn't matter if he's on Minbar, he knows Garibaldi fully recovered. If he didn't know, he could and should have asked.
So again, there was ZERO reward and unknown risk.
ah and all the fun stuff! And now, we know what happens, how it happens. Now, we get to see it all happen!
And this is the scientific explanation for the "souls," implied but not really explained. When the Minbari interrogated Sinclair, and used the Triluminary, it indicated he had not only a Minbari soul, but the soul of Valen. And they looked into other humans, and found that some had partial or complete Minbari souls. But is the Triluminary reading souls, or DNA? Obviously, Sinclair has all of Valen's DNA, because Sinclair is Valen. Humans with "whole Minbari souls" might be relatively close relatives of Sinclair, those with "partial Minbari souls" might be more distantly related, sharing much less DNA with Sinclair. You can look at it either way suits you, which is a subtle touch to the storytelling I like.
So many fun reveals... Michael O'hare apparently really enjoyed this storyline as a way to exit the show.
Who wouldn't?
Ahhh, a most intricate Bootstrap Paradox. Who wrote Beethoven's Fifth? :)
For an atheist, JMS sure took his Jesuit education to heart. There is A LOT of Catholic philosophy and imagery in this series.
That's one of the things I love about B5 is how it handles religion and different beliefs
11:40 Zafaras got things slightly wrong here Captain Sheridan is the one who is and Delenn is the one who will be
As good as this episode is, it's not the best episode. Keep watching till the end.
Everyone is going to have their own list of Crowning Moments of Awesome. This is definitely on my list, along with [REDACTED], [REDACTED], [REDACTED], and [REDACTED].
Yeah, that is JMS for you,
Drops hints and mysteries and keeps you entertained with many stories until he decides to unload a nuke on you and tie everything together.
Usually involving much jaw dropping.
Affirmative to Zathras being the MVP, it stands for Met Valen (in the) Past!
Londo.... atonement doesn't come cheap. I mean, even if you just include everything prior to this episode and *_nothing else,_* he's got a LOT of blood on his hands.
Londo didn't really have all those Narns killed - I mean, yes, but not intentionally. First time he asked Morden for help, he was shocked at what happened - he had not wanted them killed, he just wanted "the problem solved" and was mostly guilty of not thinking things through. The war was certainly something he had a part in starting, but again, he didn't intentionally start a war, he was just a cog in the machine. The attack on the Narn home world was also not Londo - that was done by Lord Refa, and again Londo was horrified.
So yes, he contributed to it all, but none of it was his "plan" - he was like some guy spouting off racist remarks and being angry and all that but never expecting it to really harm anyone and then someone else listens to him and goes on a killing rampage - yes, the one who did the talking is responsible for setting things in motion - but they are not directly responsible for the deaths. Londo is kind of the same thing. He did a lot of bad stuff, but he wasn't the one who was evil.
Entil'zha Velen!
That's how Kosh greets fake Sinclair in the special edition of The Gathering.
Londo was a person that made a faustian bargain, and here we see the fate that awaits those that do them. Tragic, but predictable.
The payoff from Season One is absolutely In-Fraggin-Credible. For anything beyond.... _"Can't Talk. Won't Talk. They told me, they did..."_
just think Zathras gets to be his own grandpa
you ASSUME that Delenn and Sheridan have not had some alone time we have not known about - but she COULD be pregnant already.... not saying she is, but she could be.......
It’s pronounced “Za-Ha-Doom”, not “Za-Ha-Dumb.”
It’s taken from the name Khazad-dûm, from Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings.
Zathras is the best
yeeeep.... there ya go kid, awesome huh? NERDGASM!
Za-ha-DOOM - not dumb!
Mimbari not born of mimbari
The fun really starts when you start thinking about the triluminary which contains the piece of Sinclair's comm thingy that verifies authorized usage by checking genetics. The Mimbari believe this indicates Mimbari souls, but really Sinclair just had a lot of children. That's why their souls seemed to diminish with each generation, the genetics are being diluted. Even better they said in an earlier episode that they had multiple triluminaries. Sinclair only had parts for one, but he brought at least one with him, so every loop the number of triluminaries increases by one... how many triluminaries did they say they had?
Partial spoiler in your comment that is not revealed until next season.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜