HAAAAAMEN!!! lol!!! I was raised IFB. I’ve been in a lot of IFB churches and it’s true, no two are the same. (Thank goodness 😂) I Praise the Lord for northstone baptist church, and pastor Johnson! In the picture of you at 15, you look like Matthew SO much!
Thank you, Pastor Johnson! Your balanced defense and explanation is greatly needed in our day. Every group has good and bad. Every group has detractors and supporters. I was saved in an Independent, fundamental Baptist church (4th Baptist of Minneapolis). I, too, was initially attracted by the love of that church for me as a hurting young person. Later I came to understand the doctrine behind it all-doctrine I hold to this day. Trust me, I’ve had bad experiences with some IFB people (I’m a pastor, don’t you know. lol). But Jesus has never failed. I refuse to let disappointments define me. I refuse to let bitterness shape me. I embrace the joy of salvation in Christ each day. Christ is my all in all. Independent? Yes. Fundamental? Yes. Baptist? Yes. And thankful God has led me down this path. All groups are deserving of critique and self-examination. But it’s also important that we invest our lives in the great work of God. Too many critics, I fear, have no real fruit, no real accomplishments. Far better to put your hand to the plow and trust God than to be a fruitless critic.
Amen brother. I’m glad you stand for your convictions. We can’t let bad actors hijack terms with their pejorative cynicism. The main line Presbyterians did the same to J Greshem Machen.
I am one of those Independent Fundamental Baptist all across the ocean in PIsa, Italy. I actually found you through evangelist Dwight Smith whom is coming to preach in my church this December.
I was raised in a strict FBC church, ironically named Fundamental Baptist Church aka Marcus Baptist Church. We still identify as a fundamental Baptist in the way you described. Other ways are different. The old fundamental Baptist was harsh and legalistic. A lot of good people were lost do to the rigid nature of their teaching. Your Church is a loving testimony to the true Independent fundamental Baptist. You preach the gospel and you love on people. Thank you for your faithful leadership of your church.
Amen to every word! Thankful for your Biblical influence in my life. Also, honored to have you as a friend. God has gloriously put wonderful servants at NorthStone Baptist Church. May we always and only praise His name.
I greatly appreciate your testimony. As the Youth Pastor in a wonderful IFB church who also has great respect for many of the same people you mentioned, it encourages me to keep investing in the lives of the teens. I love the testimony of the youth pastor that took you in, because my wife and I took in a young man for a couple months in a very similar situation. Your story is a great encouragement to me. It is refreshing to see an online a defense of good IFB Christians when online is filled with so many attacks. Thank you!
Thanks for your video. I go to an IFB church now since we moved to Riverside , Ca. I grew up in a non denominational church. I did not know it was IFB. They are sound in doctrine
I am an independent Baptist as well. Many of the stereotypes, are just extreme examples that people use who criticize us. The best Church you will be a part of, is a solid Independent Baptist. the best Bible doctrine, belongs to the independent Baptists... The best preachers are the independent Baptists. Yes, we have our problems we need to work through.. but if people had a real understanding of the Bible they would see why independent Baptists are how they are.
You’re unapologetically King James and I respect that, but how do you feel about using other versions as concordances to get the gist of what the king James is saying?
A little off on your early church information and liturgy. I would encourage others to read early writers and even the Didache, from the 1st century. The Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) movement is a conservative faction within the broader Baptist tradition that emerged in the mid-20th century. The IFB churches are characterized by their strict adherence to a literal interpretation of the Bible, a strong emphasis on evangelism, and a commitment to church autonomy. History and Origins - Beginnings: The IFB movement began in the 1950s and 1960s as a reaction against the perceived liberalism in the Southern Baptist Convention and other mainstream Baptist organizations. It sought to maintain a strict doctrinal purity and independence from denominational control. - Key Figures: Prominent leaders in the early IFB movement include John R. Rice, who was instrumental in promoting the movement's principles, and Jack Hyles, whose church in Hammond, Indiana, became a model for many IFB congregations. Notable Beliefs - Biblical Authority: IFB churches emphasize the King James Version of the Bible as the authoritative scripture. - Separation: They advocate for a separation from modernist and ecumenical influences, often leading to a disassociation from churches or movements that do not align with their beliefs. Criticisms and Controversies 1. **Legalism**: Critics argue that some IFB churches can be overly legalistic, emphasizing strict rules and standards of behavior that can lead to a culture of fear and control. 2. **Isolationism**: The movement's emphasis on separation can result in a lack of engagement with broader Christian and societal issues. 3. **Abuse Allegations**: There have been numerous reports of abuse within some IFB churches, including allegations of spiritual, emotional, and sexual abuse, with inadequate responses to such issues. 4. **Authoritarian Leadership**: Many IFB churches have a hierarchical structure that can lead to authoritarian leadership styles, where the pastor holds significant control over the congregation.
Is your church opposed to Calvinist doctrine? I always think it weird that a lot of IFB churches sing old Hymns but then oppose the theology of most of the writers of the hymns.
There is no Baptist church in the scriptures. Therefore it cannot be biblical. There are no "Baptist" mentioned in the New Testament church. Therefore scripturally no one should be called a baptist. Let me say I do appreciate most of what you said in your video along with the spirit you said it with. I to have IFB back ground. I appreciate such men who have influenced my life and I consider friends, Shelton Smith editor of the Sword of the Lord, Max Barton who was a dear friend of mine who is now in Heaven. Bruce Barton Max's son. Tom Wallace who preached for me several times when I was pastoring. As much as I love these men they are men not perfect nor did they claim to be. And as you mentioned all different. I am different than all of them. Just my two cents worth.
Preacher Boys channel is not “anonymous” I feel like you know this , why would you say he is ? I don’t agree with the deconstruction of his faith but nevertheless he’s done some very important work in exposing the myriad sex scandals that run rampant in the IFB movement , to be honest you guys should be applauding his work.
I agree, definitely not anonymous, and certainly holding churches accountable for often burying abuse and scandals within themselves. Eric is indeed wrong on several issues, however I do believe him to be sincere in his desire for accountability among churches.
I always try to assume the best. So, I’m assuming that James is a good guy. Assuming the best means that he’s blissfully unaware and just repeating what he hears inside his echo chamber. At what point should someone be held accountable for repeating verifiably false information and speaking as though he’s actually educated on the matter? There’s really no excuse, and though it may not be intentional… James has exposed that he has common ground with predators, while attacking a common enemy that’s dedicated his platform to stopping some of the suffering they cause.
🎯 Jerry. I’ll believe it wasn’t “intentional” when I see him publicly apologize for lumping Preacher Boys in with these other social media sites that he alleges are “mocking and attacking” IFB pastors but of course that will never happen because these guys can never be wrong…
You’re independent in governance, but not beliefs. Make no mistake; the IFB is a cohesive movement that at its very definition can be classified as a sub-denomination beneath the broad Baptist Term. Just as the PCA is a Sub-denomination beneath the overarching denomination known as Presbyterianism. You don’t hold the fundamentals of the faith in your absolutism view. Sola Scriptura, admittedly as much as I don’t like to, is a later doctrine. You can’t hold to absolute Scriptural Authority if the scriptures were not written and canonized yet. Paul Wrote scriptures after the forming of the early church, not before. The church of Corinth cant hold to Sola Scriptura if they didn’t have them to begin with. Not to mention, you reject all English Translations as the infallible or inerrant word of God, if they’re not the 1769 (really the 20th century Cambridge) Edition of the KJV. Which is not a fundamental of the faith. The IFB isn’t old time religion. The IFB isn’t the old path, either. Yes. No group of believers is perfect. But the IFB tends to be singled out due to the nature of dogmatism in the church. That the Pastors are treated like individual popes of their congregation. That they contain some higher power. This is subjective, of course. I cannot claim it as fact for every IFB church, but it’s a recurring theme amongst the biggest names. I think of a Jack Hyles and his kids. I think of Tony Hutson. I think of Robert Breaker. I think of Gene Kim. These IFB leaders who currently lead the IFB movement who clearly have too much power at their finger tips. The issue with the IFB, overall, is the dogmatism. The IFB in its nature is a diverse group of churches. They’re independent. But you hold these dogmas that are found so commonly. I’ve listed them below. - Baptist Succession (Rejection of Protestant Heritage) - Modesty Standards - KJVoism - Anti-intellectualism - Retreatism - Rejection of Modern Music - Absolutism - Rejection of Objectivity of Bible Intepretation No idea where your church stands. By your previous videos and the photos you posted, it’s clear you hold a couple of them. But overall, the IFB is a collective movement. And many hold to dogmatic teachings that are simply not found in scripture.
@ Sure have. Because I’ve been an active member of Apologetic discourse over the course of my adult life. The IFB has been a frequent topic of mine, along with theological liberalism, historic Christianity and denominational study. I argue what I know. And I know the IFB all too well to not point out the faults in your video.
Ifb does not hold to sola scripture, instead we believe the scripture is the final authority. I Corinthians 12 5 tells us there is a difference of administration but the same Lord. If the bible is silent on an issue then the church has unlimited choice in how to handle it and this you have many different churches administered many different ways. If in the other hand the Bible is clear then we must obey the Bible.
@@calebfielding6352 You have a fundamental misunderstanding what Sola Scriptura is. It’s not that scripture is the “only” authority. But rather, the only “infallible authority”. That’s how the Protestant church has always interpreted it and in practice. The church has authority. Religious leaders have authority. Elders, deacons and individual congregants all have authority to some extent. But zero of that is infallible. The IFB church absolutely holds Sola Scriptura as a whole. But the IFB is terrified of Protestant labels, so you reject it in name but not in practice. Sola Scriptura is not a fundamental of the faith. That was my point. Claiming the IFB is “fundamental” and following the “old paths” of the Christian faith is laughable and based on circular reasoning. It’s fallacious in its very nature, because there’s not a single Christian denomination that truly follows the fundamentals of the faith. Not even the disciples did, they had enough trouble even understanding what Jesus was trying to teach them.
@@CC-iu7sq until Jesus returns for the millennial reign, can you tell me of another infallible source besides the Bible? I have only heard catholics talk about sola scripture, and they all seem to think it means that the Bible is the only authority. I much prefer the term the Bible is our final authority, as everything we do should be scritinized by the Bible, and if anything we do goes against it then we should adjust. A lot of ifb preachers are not fans of the term old paths. There are a lot of calvanist with the ifb label that loves the protostant label, because well calvanist are protostant. As for me, I am not, I come from a long line of churches going back to Christ that rejected the catholic church. Ironically enough that means that calvanist bapitst are protostent, and non calvanist baptist are not. As for the apostles not even holding to the fundamentals of the faith, I think you are trying to make christianity far more complex than it is. Fundamentalist simply believe that the Bible is true, historical, and without error. I think you are overcomplicating simple things.
“Independent as they were in the New Testament”. I’m not convinced. Really seems like Paul put men out of a church. Those churches had pastors and elders, but Paul still had authority. I’m not arguing for the papacy by any means, but rather for some structure like the Presbyterian system. A church goes apostate, and there is literally no structure to deal with it.
@joev2223 " Really seems like Paul put men out of a church. Those churches had pastors and elders, but Paul still had authority. " Of COURSE he did! He was an Apostle, appointed directly by the risen Christ! We don't have those men today,, and there is nothing in Scripture to hint at any kind of governing body over multiple local churches. If all you want is outward compliance with orthodoxy, of course some external governance is probably a good idea. But God is dealing with the HEARTS of men, not the outward appearance.
Given the rampant abuse and cover up by Important Men, I think more is required than merely acknowledging that abuse has occurred. It is far MORE a condemnation of the IFBs if they do NOT do so. I don't doubt your sincerity, brother, but I don't find your acknowledgement to be even close to adequate. If you want to clear the name of the IFB, the ONLY way you can do that is to deal with the evil openly and thoroughly.
It is not our responsibility to deal with all the evil in as thorough a way as you suggest. Primarily, the responsibility of our church is to keep our souls so those sorts of sins don't describe us. Unfortunately, faithfulness doesn't attract nearly as much attention as unfaithfulness; if we are successful, you will never hear about it.
@@strengthforlifepensacola IF your channel were just about your church, that might fly. But that is not the case. Your video is a defense of the IFB. To do that without addressing the serious, deep, and widespread abuses is to partake in their sin.
@tnowandthen-t8t Agreed. But absent a clear Scriptural command, the specific protocol you insist on is a judgment call, the enforcement for which is at least as much social, ecclesiastical pressure as sound exegesis.
Good message. Thanks.
We need solid men taking a stand! Thank you Pastor Johnson
Amen !
We need more Pastors like Pastor Johnson who are not afraid to preach Gods truth and speak out against the evils of the world.
I am glad you chose Northstone, I am glad you are my pastor, and I am glad you are my friend. To God be the Glory indeed!
HAAAAAMEN!!! lol!!! I was raised IFB. I’ve been in a lot of IFB churches and it’s true, no two are the same. (Thank goodness 😂) I Praise the Lord for northstone baptist church, and pastor Johnson!
In the picture of you at 15, you look like Matthew SO much!
Very good testimony thanks for sharing. 👍🙏
Thank you, Pastor Johnson! Your balanced defense and explanation is greatly needed in our day. Every group has good and bad. Every group has detractors and supporters. I was saved in an Independent, fundamental Baptist church (4th Baptist of Minneapolis). I, too, was initially attracted by the love of that church for me as a hurting young person. Later I came to understand the doctrine behind it all-doctrine I hold to this day. Trust me, I’ve had bad experiences with some IFB people (I’m a pastor, don’t you know. lol). But Jesus has never failed. I refuse to let disappointments define me. I refuse to let bitterness shape me. I embrace the joy of salvation in Christ each day. Christ is my all in all. Independent? Yes. Fundamental? Yes. Baptist? Yes. And thankful God has led me down this path. All groups are deserving of critique and self-examination. But it’s also important that we invest our lives in the great work of God. Too many critics, I fear, have no real fruit, no real accomplishments. Far better to put your hand to the plow and trust God than to be a fruitless critic.
Great video, thank you sir.
I have wondered what exactly the "Fundamental" means in IFB. This video was very helpful! I'm proud to be an IFB.
Amen brother. I’m glad you stand for your convictions. We can’t let bad actors hijack terms with their pejorative cynicism. The main line Presbyterians did the same to J Greshem Machen.
A well-stated and reasoned positional statement on this issue. Thank you for sharing.
Northstone is a great church. God is using it.
Thank you, Pastor, for clearly articulating this. I share the same reasons as well! Doc
I am one of those Independent Fundamental Baptist all across the ocean in PIsa, Italy. I actually found you through evangelist Dwight Smith whom is coming to preach in my church this December.
I was raised in a strict FBC church, ironically named Fundamental Baptist Church aka Marcus Baptist Church. We still identify as a fundamental Baptist in the way you described. Other ways are different. The old fundamental Baptist was harsh and legalistic. A lot of good people were lost do to the rigid nature of their teaching. Your Church is a loving testimony to the true Independent fundamental Baptist. You preach the gospel and you love on people. Thank you for your faithful leadership of your church.
Amen to every word! Thankful for your Biblical influence in my life. Also, honored to have you as a friend. God has gloriously put wonderful servants at NorthStone Baptist Church. May we always and only praise His name.
Very refreshing…. thank you! I appreciate what you said… God bless
I greatly appreciate your testimony. As the Youth Pastor in a wonderful IFB church who also has great respect for many of the same people you mentioned, it encourages me to keep investing in the lives of the teens. I love the testimony of the youth pastor that took you in, because my wife and I took in a young man for a couple months in a very similar situation. Your story is a great encouragement to me. It is refreshing to see an online a defense of good IFB Christians when online is filled with so many attacks. Thank you!
Amen. I love the personal story and the pictures.
Amen its encouraging to hear your testimony so many christian youtubers dont explain how they got saved. I wonder if some even are.
Amen, well said brother. God is uniquely using you!
Well and concisely stated.
IFB is for me! Haaaaaamen Hoss!
excellent!
Wow I didn’t know those things about the southern Baptist convention. Super interesting and enlightening
They have gone off the deep end
Thanks for your video. I go to an IFB church now since we moved to Riverside , Ca. I grew up in a non denominational church. I did not know it was IFB. They are sound in doctrine
I am an independent Baptist as well. Many of the stereotypes, are just extreme examples that people use who criticize us. The best Church you will be a part of, is a solid Independent Baptist. the best Bible doctrine, belongs to the independent Baptists... The best preachers are the independent Baptists. Yes, we have our problems we need to work through.. but if people had a real understanding of the Bible they would see why independent Baptists are how they are.
I'm not IFB, but I appreciate that many times, IFB congregations are bulwarks against progressive streams of Christianity.
You’re unapologetically King James and I respect that, but how do you feel about using other versions as concordances to get the gist of what the king James is saying?
Many KJV pastors reference other versions as well
A little off on your early church information and liturgy. I would encourage others to read early writers and even the Didache, from the 1st century.
The Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) movement is a conservative faction within the broader Baptist tradition that emerged in the mid-20th century. The IFB churches are characterized by their strict adherence to a literal interpretation of the Bible, a strong emphasis on evangelism, and a commitment to church autonomy.
History and Origins
- Beginnings: The IFB movement began in the 1950s and 1960s as a reaction against the perceived liberalism in the Southern Baptist Convention and other mainstream Baptist organizations. It sought to maintain a strict doctrinal purity and independence from denominational control.
- Key Figures: Prominent leaders in the early IFB movement include John R. Rice, who was instrumental in promoting the movement's principles, and Jack Hyles, whose church in Hammond, Indiana, became a model for many IFB congregations.
Notable Beliefs
- Biblical Authority: IFB churches emphasize the King James Version of the Bible as the authoritative scripture.
- Separation: They advocate for a separation from modernist and ecumenical influences, often leading to a disassociation from churches or movements that do not align with their beliefs.
Criticisms and Controversies
1. **Legalism**: Critics argue that some IFB churches can be overly legalistic, emphasizing strict rules and standards of behavior that can lead to a culture of fear and control.
2. **Isolationism**: The movement's emphasis on separation can result in a lack of engagement with broader Christian and societal issues.
3. **Abuse Allegations**: There have been numerous reports of abuse within some IFB churches, including allegations of spiritual, emotional, and sexual abuse, with inadequate responses to such issues.
4. **Authoritarian Leadership**: Many IFB churches have a hierarchical structure that can lead to authoritarian leadership styles, where the pastor holds significant control over the congregation.
And what about Acts 16:32?
Paul and Silas definitely did that.
Is your church opposed to Calvinist doctrine? I always think it weird that a lot of IFB churches sing old Hymns but then oppose the theology of most of the writers of the hymns.
Everyone has their weaknesses haha.
There is no Baptist church in the scriptures. Therefore it cannot be biblical. There are no "Baptist" mentioned in the New Testament church. Therefore scripturally no one should be called a baptist. Let me say I do appreciate most of what you said in your video along with the spirit you said it with. I to have IFB back ground. I appreciate such men who have influenced my life and I consider friends, Shelton Smith editor of the Sword of the Lord, Max Barton who was a dear friend of mine who is now in Heaven. Bruce Barton Max's son. Tom Wallace who preached for me several times when I was pastoring. As much as I love these men they are men not perfect nor did they claim to be. And as you mentioned all different. I am different than all of them. Just my two cents worth.
Preacher Boys channel is not “anonymous” I feel like you know this , why would you say he is ? I don’t agree with the deconstruction of his faith but nevertheless he’s done some very important work in exposing the myriad sex scandals that run rampant in the IFB movement , to be honest you guys should be applauding his work.
I agree, definitely not anonymous, and certainly holding churches accountable for often burying abuse and scandals within themselves. Eric is indeed wrong on several issues, however I do believe him to be sincere in his desire for accountability among churches.
I always try to assume the best. So, I’m assuming that James is a good guy.
Assuming the best means that he’s blissfully unaware and just repeating what he hears inside his echo chamber.
At what point should someone be held accountable for repeating verifiably false information and speaking as though he’s actually educated on the matter?
There’s really no excuse, and though it may not be intentional… James has exposed that he has common ground with predators, while attacking a common enemy that’s dedicated his platform to stopping some of the suffering they cause.
@@Hikerbro
I agree 100% with everything you wrote 🙏
🎯 Jerry. I’ll believe it wasn’t “intentional” when I see him publicly apologize for lumping Preacher Boys in with these other social media sites that he alleges are “mocking and attacking” IFB pastors but of course that will never happen because these guys can never be wrong…
@@chalesgolding5314 Preacher Boys is not an anonymous account.
Way to much emphasis on IBF,which is what i see predominantly the issue with the IBF members
You’re independent in governance, but not beliefs. Make no mistake; the IFB is a cohesive movement that at its very definition can be classified as a sub-denomination beneath the broad Baptist Term. Just as the PCA is a Sub-denomination beneath the overarching denomination known as Presbyterianism.
You don’t hold the fundamentals of the faith in your absolutism view. Sola Scriptura, admittedly as much as I don’t like to, is a later doctrine. You can’t hold to absolute Scriptural Authority if the scriptures were not written and canonized yet. Paul Wrote scriptures after the forming of the early church, not before. The church of Corinth cant hold to Sola Scriptura if they didn’t have them to begin with.
Not to mention, you reject all English Translations as the infallible or inerrant word of God, if they’re not the 1769 (really the 20th century Cambridge) Edition of the KJV. Which is not a fundamental of the faith.
The IFB isn’t old time religion. The IFB isn’t the old path, either.
Yes. No group of believers is perfect. But the IFB tends to be singled out due to the nature of dogmatism in the church. That the Pastors are treated like individual popes of their congregation. That they contain some higher power. This is subjective, of course. I cannot claim it as fact for every IFB church, but it’s a recurring theme amongst the biggest names. I think of a Jack Hyles and his kids. I think of Tony Hutson. I think of Robert Breaker. I think of Gene Kim. These IFB leaders who currently lead the IFB movement who clearly have too much power at their finger tips.
The issue with the IFB, overall, is the dogmatism. The IFB in its nature is a diverse group of churches. They’re independent. But you hold these dogmas that are found so commonly. I’ve listed them below.
- Baptist Succession (Rejection of Protestant Heritage)
- Modesty Standards
- KJVoism
- Anti-intellectualism
- Retreatism
- Rejection of Modern Music
- Absolutism
- Rejection of Objectivity of Bible Intepretation
No idea where your church stands. By your previous videos and the photos you posted, it’s clear you hold a couple of them. But overall, the IFB is a collective movement. And many hold to dogmatic teachings that are simply not found in scripture.
Sounds like you've put some thought into this.
@ Sure have. Because I’ve been an active member of Apologetic discourse over the course of my adult life.
The IFB has been a frequent topic of mine, along with theological liberalism, historic Christianity and denominational study.
I argue what I know. And I know the IFB all too well to not point out the faults in your video.
Ifb does not hold to sola scripture, instead we believe the scripture is the final authority. I Corinthians 12 5 tells us there is a difference of administration but the same Lord. If the bible is silent on an issue then the church has unlimited choice in how to handle it and this you have many different churches administered many different ways. If in the other hand the Bible is clear then we must obey the Bible.
@@calebfielding6352 You have a fundamental misunderstanding what Sola Scriptura is.
It’s not that scripture is the “only” authority. But rather, the only “infallible authority”. That’s how the Protestant church has always interpreted it and in practice.
The church has authority. Religious leaders have authority. Elders, deacons and individual congregants all have authority to some extent. But zero of that is infallible.
The IFB church absolutely holds Sola Scriptura as a whole. But the IFB is terrified of Protestant labels, so you reject it in name but not in practice.
Sola Scriptura is not a fundamental of the faith. That was my point. Claiming the IFB is “fundamental” and following the “old paths” of the Christian faith is laughable and based on circular reasoning. It’s fallacious in its very nature, because there’s not a single Christian denomination that truly follows the fundamentals of the faith. Not even the disciples did, they had enough trouble even understanding what Jesus was trying to teach them.
@@CC-iu7sq until Jesus returns for the millennial reign, can you tell me of another infallible source besides the Bible?
I have only heard catholics talk about sola scripture, and they all seem to think it means that the Bible is the only authority. I much prefer the term the Bible is our final authority, as everything we do should be scritinized by the Bible, and if anything we do goes against it then we should adjust.
A lot of ifb preachers are not fans of the term old paths.
There are a lot of calvanist with the ifb label that loves the protostant label, because well calvanist are protostant. As for me, I am not, I come from a long line of churches going back to Christ that rejected the catholic church. Ironically enough that means that calvanist bapitst are protostent, and non calvanist baptist are not.
As for the apostles not even holding to the fundamentals of the faith, I think you are trying to make christianity far more complex than it is. Fundamentalist simply believe that the Bible is true, historical, and without error. I think you are overcomplicating simple things.
“Independent as they were in the New Testament”. I’m not convinced. Really seems like Paul put men out of a church. Those churches had pastors and elders, but Paul still had authority. I’m not arguing for the papacy by any means, but rather for some structure like the Presbyterian system. A church goes apostate, and there is literally no structure to deal with it.
Thanks for the reasonable pushback
@joev2223 " Really seems like Paul put men out of a church. Those churches had pastors and elders, but Paul still had authority. "
Of COURSE he did! He was an Apostle, appointed directly by the risen Christ!
We don't have those men today,, and there is nothing in Scripture to hint at any kind of governing body over multiple local churches.
If all you want is outward compliance with orthodoxy, of course some external governance is probably a good idea.
But God is dealing with the HEARTS of men, not the outward appearance.
@@tnowandthen-t8twho has authority in an ifb?
Both terms are not biblical.
Given the rampant abuse and cover up by Important Men, I think more is required than merely acknowledging that abuse has occurred.
It is far MORE a condemnation of the IFBs if they do NOT do so.
I don't doubt your sincerity, brother, but I don't find your acknowledgement to be even close to adequate. If you want to clear the name of the IFB, the ONLY way you can do that is to deal with the evil openly and thoroughly.
It is not our responsibility to deal with all the evil in as thorough a way as you suggest. Primarily, the responsibility of our church is to keep our souls so those sorts of sins don't describe us. Unfortunately, faithfulness doesn't attract nearly as much attention as unfaithfulness; if we are successful, you will never hear about it.
@@strengthforlifepensacola IF your channel were just about your church, that might fly. But that is not the case.
Your video is a defense of the IFB. To do that without addressing the serious, deep, and widespread abuses is to partake in their sin.
@@tnowandthen-t8t The question is whether all that effort would realistically change your perspective of SFL.
@@strengthforlifepensacola It isn't about changing my perspective, or anyone else's. It's about doing what is right.
@tnowandthen-t8t Agreed. But absent a clear Scriptural command, the specific protocol you insist on is a judgment call, the enforcement for which is at least as much social, ecclesiastical pressure as sound exegesis.