Why Some Street Fighter Pros HATE Perfect Parry
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Is perfect parry really that big of a problem in SF6? Let's talk about it
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I'd like a video on your thoughts on what changes you'd like to see Capcom make to Drive Rush
Literally what you said is all that needs changing for players tapping parry. People that are upset at Perfect Parry on wakeup are upset because they can't get their meaties. But I vividly remember people bitching and moaning about meaties and set play in sf4 and sfv. Tap Parry and more rewarding Drive Rush checking is all I need from the season 2 changes for this to be my favorite sf.
Tap parry?
@@thatguy8841 Currently you can hold parry on wakeup and if they do a meaty correctly it'll Perfect Parry even though you didn't have to time anything. They're saying just make it so that you're forced to time it to their meaty.
@@Lil_Fr0sty i mean idk who decided that a hold down parry button that you can go into block right after was a good idea ... Or throw .. idk what they were smoking
@@Lil_Fr0sty That is how parry on wakeup works already. If you just hold parry while you're knocked down you get a regular parry.
@@Lil_Fr0styNope! That's not what's happening in the game nor what the comment said.
1) You can't get a PP by holding the buttons on wake up
2) The comment talked about the low risk of just tapping the parry buttons. If they catch an attack its PP, but when not, it has only 29 fr of recovery and punishing it its more often than not, difficult. So low risk high reward
I am very glad you said that you shouldnt be able to block after you attempt perfect parry as your change to it. Because thats where i think some pros have issue with it. Not necessarily the reward but the lack of risk because you can block if you mess up. It will actually get people to HOLD down the parry button to avoid getting punished.
Yeah, agreed!
Ay yo sonic✌️
That wouldn't work
Na if you make perfect parry more risky then it will be used less and it's one of the sickest mechanics in the game or if they do make it punishable there should be way less scaling
I like perfect parry, what I dont like is the fact it can be done while blocking, if it they changed so PERFECT PARRY so it would only come out while you are pressing Parry+foward that would be perfect IMO, Back+parry should give you less reward since is a perfect unhitable/unmixable block state.
It's a mechanic that's supposed to lose to throw, that's why it has recovery
What a brain dead video. Jab pressure gives you a bar for EVERY HIT you hold parry so it’s probably not even good to do to much of it. Perfect parry antiairs have people not even doing dps to steal turns. It’s gotten so bad people are doing walk up tap parry and empty jump parry 😂. The only skillful thing about pp is doing it on fireballs and getting a punish. The rest is people stealing turns with no consequences.
The reason why pro players complain about Perfect Parry is that the reward is potentially very high, while the risk is capped at "eat a double damage throw and lose 1.5 bars of drive." And the high reward doesn't come from damage on punishes (which are scaled down by at least 50%); it's from screen control. If you work your opponent into the corner and they perfect parry one jab, they're just going to back throw you and now YOU'RE the one cornered. No resources spent, no optimized carry combo... just back throw.
A lot of people don’t like it because it doesn’t feel like a skill based mechanic, it feels like you can just press parry and hope it works. I’ll gladly admit that I’ve won games off of lucky perfect parries, which is not inherently a design flaw it’s just kinda true that it can happen.
I think the screen freeze needs to go, that way if you get a perfect parry on accident you won’t be able to react fast enough to do anything with it, and if you did it on purpose you can buffer your next move and reap the rewards.
I agree with all your points, it does stop the strings that people do over and over, but it’s still just something you can press and hope for the best.
I agree with the screen freeze being too easy to confirm into, but I think players just want to be able to get 30% on you or more if you fail to get a perfect parry. If they did that, It would reduce the amount of attempted perfect parries in a match, but still be an option.
Tbh though idk if I'd want that as playing Alex in 5 meant that I had to hold a lot of brain dead pressure when getting knocked down (until I had access to my 2f parry). And with how oppressive this game is, well it would be crazy lol.
The mechanic itself can be considered random and I don't think it's a problem the dev team can fix without making major changes to the core gameplay, but I'm interested to see what they do for season 2.
@@twistedrivera the easiest fix to me would have to be making parry more of a commitment, being able to safely block after a failed parry is ridiculous.
I hate DR because it's the exact opposite of what you mention in this video and everyone complains about that mechanic too lol
well, you can check the DR, and if that's a problem, you can perfect parry it too, but you can't perfect parry a perfect parry so I kinda don't see your point, sorry if I misunderstood u
I think they should just make it a little easier to check
@@dominick_sg it’s not consistently checkable so not the best blanket statement. Playing Manon you quickly realize your’re kind of forced to learn how to check it but even I find myself just not being able to check it depending on the character/situation but that’s usually based on positioning or that I didn’t press the button in like .00001 of a second lol(related to the the eating inputs debate).
DR promotes brain dead gameplay unfortunately, and I know a lot of people hopping on the “just check it” train but not every character is blessed with good DR check buttons.
DR socks cuz it's low risk high reward. Even if u don't get a hot u still get plus frames and a 50/50.
And even if you get checked (which is very hard and risky for the oponent) u won't lose much life unless they spend a lot of meter.
I think Melty Blood Actress Again perfected the parry mechanic.
Melty Blood has shield, a parry mechanic similar to perfect parry, can be held down, as well, consumes meter used for specials, but the real difference is is that, shield doesn't block all directions of attack so you have to choose to parry high/low, also, even if you shield an attack, you can't block for a few frames, you have to either input a: special, super, normal (for crescent moon), or shield counter (inputted with 236D after a successful shield) and these options give your attack a counter hit property. If you don't input any of these, the opponents next attack will be a counter hit. Not to mention, trying to do either of these options is not easy since you have a small buffer to do them when it happens. Not to mention shield counter isn't always guaranteed to hit if the opponents move that was shielded has fast recovery (e.g: 2A).
To breakdown the framedata:
= SF parry: 1/8~[2]/29[1] || The [] mean perfect parry
= Melty Blood shield: 0/5~[4]/19 || [] is EX-shield, this framedata is overtly simplified.
It has a lot of depth, risk, and execution all combined into it.
More info: wiki.gbl.gg/w/Melty_Blood/Advanced_Mechanics#Shield_Frame_Data
Thank you for bring that into the discussion. I couldn't agree more!!
@@currydeante I should also give a mention to the alpha counters from the SFA series.
In Alpha 2, the input is rqcb (reverse qcb) + P/K.
In Alpha 3, f + P+K (of same strength).
I prefer Alpha 2's input, but also they have different attacks for each one. which is pretty cool.
Not rly a parry, but I wish SF6 had something like that.
@@p99chan99drive reversal
What does the 1 mean there in sf parry ?
@@elfascisto6549 startup
startup/active/recovery
U say perfect parry is to stop braindead play while randomly throwing out parry whenever u see an attack and holding block is the most brainless shit in sf6
My problems with perfect Parry are solely due to how non-committal it is. In 3S if you fuck up a parry you got hit, and usually hit pretty hard. If you fuck up a Perfect Parry you can either still block in time or just hold the button and Parry normally and you're fine anyway. This is obvious, even to Capcom, which is why they made perfect Parry combos do a lot less damage but I don't think they went far enough. Even if you're only doing 10% you still get control of the match back an incredibly important thing in a game as volatile as SF6.
I've had entire rounds where I get a lucky perfect Parry at the start and just use that momentum and advantage to roll my opponent for the rest of the round, shits crazy
throw loops would be a good topic to cover, especially since it ties so well into the topic of parries. throwing someone on their wake-up is a stronger option that ever now that perfect parrying someones oki button is a strong option to escape pressure. are throw loops healthy when parries work as such? should every character have access to one? notably characters like marisa, guile, and lily have to spend meter to drive rush for a loop whereas chun li and honda dont have any sort of loop. personally chun li is strong enough without a throw loop and honda doesnt need another way to drain opponents guard gauge even further than headbutt and slam already do
People who like parry are cool. It makes the game more than just a number crunching game and a "my turn" game.
Why dont you talk about the braindead gameplan of slapping the parry button whenever your opponent twitches from outside of throw range
Parry has a recovery doesn't it? Bait the parry and prepare to punish
I think projectiles should take gray life on parry. They should only be damage-free on perfect parry.
I'm glad you call out pros like Punk for the height of bitching they do on every game they play. Pros like Punk are still good at the game but they've been crying about 6 constantly because it doesn't let you autopilot situations like 5 and they can't handle it lol
This video reminds me how well designed Guard Impacts are in Soulcalibur IV.
My problem with Perfect Parry is that it feels random, even when you are the defender.
It is almost like a "crouch tech", were as you can press it without thinking about it a lot, and when it happen to work, it feels unintentional.
I would like if they made the input for perfect parry separate from the regular parry, and make it have regular recovery where you can't block. not because I think it need to be more risky, but because it needs to be more intentional
Its feels random if you literally just tap it for no reason. Im able to recognize many times where it’s obvious they are gonna press cr. Mk, so its an easy parry. Also, them -3 situations are also easy parries.
Just like everyone’s beloved third strike, its about understanding patterns.
@@naklyaFGC I think the thing is, the game incentivizes you to just press it to the rhythm of the opponent pressure, because of how the punish window is short
@@ricniclas thats when u… mix it up!
@@naklyaFGC But i'm not recommending the change thinking about the attacker, but instead because I think it would make defending more fun
@@ricniclasfun how?
Love the content! Happy to see you doing videos for 6. I’d like to see a video talking about the throw loops in 6 or maybe very underwhelming mechanics like Jamie’s drinks.
no like, sorry. no enough memes ( in mexican)
My one issue is that when perfect parrying, I’d go for a punish and it wouldn’t work. Like I’d still be minus or the opponent could still react super it. I’m thinking it’s maybe a certain moves framdata but even just pressing L.p doest always work
If in the event you're opponent jumped in on you and you PP while not being able to punish them, that was a safejump. If it was another attack, could be you were canceling fast enough? I wouldn't know for sure unless you could provide some examples
you missed entirely the point why they hate it, geez
High-level play is all about maximizing the reward while throwing out the lowest risk option possible. Perfect Parry negates that by making no low-risk button truly low-risk. As I mentioned in the video, it stops braindead set play, buttons, and timing. Watch the video again, my point is in there somewhere.
Regardless, no matter what they do to the mechanic, it's not going to make everybody happy and that's okay.
@@twistedrivera your logic is that pros hate it cause they cant press random buttons. If that was the only reason they would hate invencible reversals too, and thats not the case.
Pros hate PP cause its random as fuck, put you in the corner and turn around a match with barely no effort. If you could perfect parry but not get a punish they wouldnt hate it. It is as simple as that
@@Or1a Almost. My logic is that they can't go for the heavy or medium button that gives them guaranteed + frames after a knockdown. Seen that and did that throughout the entirety of SFV.
The only pros I see calling PP random is punk and bro doesn't like parry in any game. Could it use some tuning? Probably. Is it random? In my opinion, no.
If a pro is getting constantly parried, it's not the mechanic's fault, it's their inability to mix up their offense. I don't see ANY Japanese or other Asian region pros complaining about the mechanic, but I can't say the same about Drive Rush.
When it comes about system mechanics, I've one big gripe only. Why is Drive Rush the ONLY mechanic that isn't universal? Everyone has a DI that covers more or less the same distance, same startup, same recovery, same everything. So does drive reversal. And then comes this asshole that has characters who go fullscreen in the first 11 frames and others who can't even _reach_ fullscreen even after the entire animation plays. There needs to be a smaller gap between the best and the worst DRs.
Geif with Juri's DR would be busted and Juri would be fucked over with Geif DR
@@thatguy8841 well, one is bottom tier, the other isn't. lol
I'm not saying "make them equal" btw, I'm just saying the gap needs to be smaller. Gief and Manon could use a small buff while Juri and DeeJay could use a small nerf. It's not gonna make characters unplayable, it just brings everyone's power level to more or less the same
@@Raxyz_0 Nah. It's a deliberate design choice for these characters. If DJ needs a nerf it's too his damage, If Manon needs a big it's to her anti projectile tools.
@@thatguy8841 If it's a deliberate choice, then why it's the only Drive tool that it does so? It feels weird. Character's specials, movespeeds and normals makes them unique, the Drive system serves as a way to tie them to a common denominator.
If you can't decrease the rewards of PP, increase its risk. I think a good way of nerfing is actually giving it a high-low property, then player can't just tap it in neutral and have everything blocked if they miss the parry.
The only actual problem with the mechanic is that performing a perfect parry doesnt really put you at any risk cuz if you fail then you just normal parry.
To keep it a good way to stop braindead pressure and increase the risk, they should just give it another input thats punishable after a few frames or by grabs.
The perry system has been in DOA and Soul Blade/Soul Calibur for decades. It's a great mechanic and is one that counters constant rush down game play types. It adds a much needed wrinkle to any fighting game.
yeah if it was more intentional it would be better. i agree that its good it exists as a way to punish autopilot meaties etc. its a specific callout for specific scenarios and if someone reads you parrying on wakeup they can punish with a huge throw.
just wish it was more consistent tho
Ah loved that the crack house is back
I miss being able to meaty when getting the knockdown. But now i just hang around their body and wait for a throw tech, parry, DP or super. But i think most pros are more upset at tap parry in neutral being so safe.
the problem with perfect parry is that it essentially removes strategy because whenever you see an opponent throw out a move (or get a read on them) you can mindlessly steal the turn, carry them into a corner and set up oki. Your opponent out-footsied you, caught you lacking in fundaments, and they are the ones punished for it
I can see why some players at top level may be annoyed with it since it may deincentivise intitating but honestly with such a small window I think its fine.
Third strike parrying did not discourage Chuns from abusing her normals or the twins from using dive kicks. In a vacuum, parrying yangs mantis slash is easy. Against a Yang who knows what he’s doing, you won’t be parrying it on reaction every time.
Parrying is a tremendous skill in third strike. Given the choice, I’ll take S6 parrying over 3S parrying.
"because they like to bitch" Lmao As i was just about to complain that the mechanic should be more like a 3s parry/red parry imo. . Then I actually listened, And what i took from this video, Is that It's just a lack of understanding, As to why it is there in the first place. I have less than 8 hours into sf6 arcade/online, But this is very educational, And may help prevent raging! Mind the set
Hey, good video. I think the main concern most people have is that you can get Perfect parry unintentionally. Not sure if it has already been suggested but I believe if capcom can change the input for perfect parrt (fwd + parry? Or red focus buttons) and make it cost 1.5 or 2 bars then that makes it fair and everyone is happy. The person has to commit to a descion, if they fuck up, they lose 2 bars.
My only problem with perfect parry is anti air.
Rivera, the only thing I think should be fixed with perfect parry, along with that block parry option select, is the screen freeze, and the damage scaling. It’s ridiculous if I planned my perfect parry, and my option in response for predicting your attack on me only does half amounts of damage.
What Street Fighter did was literally just put the DOA perry system in their game.
My issue with the system mechanics is that you have a game with a 1-button parry, AND zero chip damage. It's redundant. They need to restore chip damage, since you have the parry system that technically allows you to evade it. Having no chip really hurts characters like sim and jamie
The issue is definitely the risk vs reward. If you fail a perfect parry the worst thing that can happen is double throw damage and losing a bar of drive meter but more often than not you'll just recover in time. Whereas getting perfect parried into a back throw in the corner just sucks and honestly feels a bit unfair... but maybe the feeling of unfairness is just there because i'm so used to how the wakeup game looked in earlier street fighter games.
I would like to see changes to raw drive rush in neutral, throw loops and perfect parries. But since the drive mechanics are so intertwined with each other in this game it's difficult to suggest any specific change with confidence, i recon loads of trial and error is necessary as one change to one mechanic will undoubtedly have ripple effects affecting the other mechanics too.
i hate perfect parry! but only because im really bad at it. really though, I just cant get that damn mechanic drilled into my brain. I would get out of so many more braindead situations if I would have just went for a parry instead.
the only mechanic i want toned down is drive rush.
i personally think its the freeze frame when you get the perfect parry is why people hate it. considering it makes it easier for you to think what you can do with it. if there was no screen freeze frame and you had to act based on your instincts, the mechanic would be a lot more balanced and prevents anybody mashing parry randomly to get a lucky perfect parry.
shoutout to all my honda players who don't get to play the game cause of its existence.
They really gotta rework honda, he's sooo poorly made with this mechanic in mind.
Short answer: Randomness
Long answer: Its simply random
I see that response a lot and I don't see the reasoning for it too much. Kakeru vs Angry Bird didn't have a hint of him just throwing out parries. I can see the argument of just throwing it out in neutral and hoping for the best, but the odds aren't high. Why do you think it's random?
@@twistedrivera Im getting mixed on my offense
@@twistedrivera 💯 Kakeru was definitely not random, those perfect parties he did in the final games was so impressive. Its the only time I see someone use it to completely neutralise someone's game plan
Love perfect parry, gets me a ton of damage on my empty jumps 😂😂😂
honestly my only issue with parry is that its tied to a button (or two if you like doing finger twister) and not a forward/down input direction and how it's a 2 frame window instead of a more leniant 5 or 6
i get why its tied to a button though so it can be tied to drive meter and serve as another punishment for going into burnout.
Nice video Rivera, really enjoy your yappacino content. I wouldn’t mind seeing a video on DR, but honestly I’m more interested as a fan to learn why you don’t like either Marisa or Manon.
I also used to main Alex in SF5 and I felt like they just split his big button/neutral game and grapple game into the two characters. Is it because neither character has both aspects in a strong way? I will say though, when I tried Jamie he did feel much more fun than those two - something about getting drink level up and changing combo routes because of it really hit.
Hope you have a good day, keep doing what you’re doing.
As a Gief player… i am so freaking happy that the Parry system is in the game because I can “somewhat” fight my way out
If they wont make parry risky, they should at least lock out super meter on perfect parry combos.
I think pros hate perfect parry because as you said, you can block after attempting a parry.
I think perfect parry is totally fair you have a lot of time to punish with a grab or low forward
I like perfect parry. It makes newbies like me feel very good when I pull it off, and pros can do it consistently and turn pressure around.
The drive system is one of my favorite things about this game.
Buff it, i hate how little damage you can do when executed
Because they are scrubs, simple as that!
I like the increase block lock out window ‘cause I think you should be able to react to the move ending for a punish and they can still DR out if they like REALLY wanna take a risk
I really miss 3S parries, I'd love it if Capcom added a "True Parry" That would give less punishes but could be used even in burnout and used forward (completely risking your defense) instead of parry with good timing (whoops I mistimed my perfect, oh well I can block or hold parry) to counter checkmate scenarios
I think perfect parry is fine as it is but I don’t think holding parry makes sense. The risk of holding parry is too low in this game. I also think that if you tap parry and the opponent doesn’t do anything the punish window should be a lot higher, and you should not be allowed to block in that recovery. If you’re tapping parry in the middle of my block string and I read that you will tap parry, I should at least have 20 frames after the 8 active frames to blow you up with a fierce punish
In most cases I actually enjoy parry as a mechanic. I think my only issue with parry is that it has to exist in the game to counter the dumb stuff. I’d argue stuff like Honda’s head butt/butt slams or Guile and JP’s zoning games forced capcom to find a solution to a problem they created intentionally.
4:00 this isn't as true for gief as you think, perfect parry aside. It's so scary going for a throw/shimmy mixup against him due to jump cancel spd. It's a reversal that beats 2 out of 3 main oki options, and it doesn't even cost meter.
yea its not perfect parry thats the problem, its how safe fishing for it in footsies is. If they effectively nerf the recovery of tap parry and maaaaybe increase the drive penalty for getting thrown out of it by like 20% I'd be happy.
Get gud scrub
Thank you for the quality sf6 video!
Thank you for your support and the dabloons. Happy to see you and others appreciate this style of content
My issue with perfect parry is I just don’t like buttons tied to block mechanics, I wish it was just the 3rd strike tap forward, feels more natural
imo while SF6 needs perfect parry to function well atm, it's not because it's a good mechanic, it's because there's a lot of other bad design decisions that it's being used as a patch up for. It's not any one major thing that could be fixed either, just lots of small things that pile up to result in this option being a requirement
I just think you shouldn't be able to block in the first 6 or 8 recovery frames of drive parry, that would increase the risk a little bit by forcing you to waste more meter and risk getting thrown if you want to hold parry to be more safe
you forgot to mention my boy RYO and his parries he's the only one who can parry in king of fighers and his whole play style is based off of it
Dont know.. only gonna know if Alex.. appears on this game..
Do a video on who has the best booty in the game. (Hint: It's Gief.)
Only thing that gets me tight is perfect parry AA, especially if they get it after I jump a big button. Other than than, I agree with you that it's a needed mechanic
Welcome back rivera, we've missed you
Like you and many others have said, give parry more recovery to punish people using it too loosely.
I love this man, that's literally the same change I've suggested
my issue is with perfect parry is a combination of how random it is and the reward off perfect parry. Ken for example puts you in the corner from anywhere on the screen with oki because he happened to press the parry button at the right time. it's pretty much a ggs shake my hand situation cause they got lucky and as reward they put you in the corner and throw loop you to death.
Yo riverman you speaking factomundos
Very nice dissection, I’d like to see more of your thoughts on this stuff!
I can't stand people talk about PP feels random.
The matter with PP is the CONSISTENCY u can use it. That can be translated to actual skill.
One PP in a match doesn't mean anything really, if you don't have the SKILL to do something meaningful with it afterwards. Especially when the "afterwards" is SO situation dependent (bars, position, health ect).
A good player can actually frequently use it as a tool to get out of some situations,as explained in the video. The lucky bad one, will perform it randomly and way less frequently while he can't really utilise it to something optimally beneficial afterwards.Let's don't forget that is super damage scaled too!
Great video. Raw DR should be next
no
Perfect parry is ok until you play Honda at higher rank MR. Then you realize because his special moves are so highly telegraphed it doesn't matter if you aren't using them the same way over and over again, that they have a high chance of getting perfect parried.
Honda deserves it, he needs to get those specia become punishable.
Perfect parry or DI are the only ways to deal with his bullshit...
for video ideas, id like to hear your thoughts on the game’s balance, since tier lists always always make for fun content
bb
Welcome back, King. I hope Capcom give Alex on Season 2
People perfect parrys, meanwhile i constantly perfect parry jump in's
And my punish gets block unless its a grab. Its stupid
this mostly happens on safe jumps any other situation you should learn to use a button or special to anti air.
Perfect parry on wake up is just cheap, parry should be read of action + timing. If Capcom make perfect parry won't trigger at the first 2 frames on wake up, then it will be fair.
You pressed buttons, got read, and the enemy got a parry.
If the read was wrong then they eat a grab.
It loses to shimmy and throw 😂
0:42 so no baiken or even hakumen some of the gods of parry? but in all seriousness I think parry is in a good spot but still shit because no risk besides grab now could be because I am use to parries having a MASSIVE RISK but if you miss a perfect parry you should be in a counter hit state atleast I do not like using grab to punish as the zoom in just makes it feel kinda lame its hard to describe
Lol yea I knew of those characters, but didn't want to list every character I knew of. I'm interested to see what they will do when that S2 balance patch comes out, but parry over all is just a problematic mechanic to balance and in the end won't make every player happy. 3rd strike had quite a lot of parry option selects, so it would suck to see high level play revolve around that. There are some option selects to current perfect parry, but not as good as 3rd strike
@@twistedrivera oh you like parry? then name every character who has a parry
I have never thought about using perfect parry in wake up to avoid meaties. kinda game changing, thank you
LOL. Easy road to masters, my friend. If you play a command throw character, make sure to also throw out some ex command throws in there and they'll probably hit, I did it all the time in 5.
The crack house is back in business 🔥
❤ maruki theme
Ye talk about DR or DRC!
1:40 - 1:54 I whole heartedly agree!
3:55 THANK you for voicing my exact thoughts.
I absolutely hate that it be the cammy players, ahem.. punk… that just detests parry. Like, yes brudder, you have a side switch reversal and insane pressure, of course you hate it???
THROW LOOPS PLEASE I'M GARBAGE AT DEALING WITH THEM
Backdash or jump forward out
Pretty cool video
Perfect parry creates just as many problems as it fixes. The only counter is grabs which isn't a big enough reward for countering it. Stuff like di and Perfect parry do not belong in traditional 2d fighters. They belong in vs games/anime fighters.
Those kids the single worst game by far. DI complaints 10 months in, are you fr
@@thatguy8841 it's not my fault the game called street fighter doesn't feel like street fighter.
@@thatguy8841 I should note I don't care about balance. I just don't think it's a fun mechanic.
@@corbinallen4562 So you're just whining, got it
@@thatguy8841 No I just don't feel like the mechanics belong in street fighter. Because neutral is meant to be slow an methodical in most street fighter games. If it was a different fighting game sure whatever go nuts.
Good video
I'm curious what you think of Throw Loops, as they were in SFV initially too, does them being removed make parry stronger etc.
They definitely would make parrying stronger. Parry needs to be something that you can't just hold if throw loops are removed. If you mess up the timing you get punished
The fact that it cost resource is enough. Throw loops really should go away.
It's unevenly distributed among characters, it's boring as spectator to watch, and it's very obnoxious as player in low level play.
@@HellecticMojo If you remove throw loops you have to nerf parry and thus nerf drive rush too.
@@Leislinerfing parry has no effect on DR, they should nerf DR but not because of parry. I'd happily get rid of throw lips if throw punishing Parry lost you an extra bar of drive
@@Leisli aren't people complaining about drive rush anyway? Not that I'm in that camp.
Also you don't need throws to actually loop for parry to have a downside. Empty jumps grab, the fact that it costs gauge, drive rush throws, 29 frames of recovery. There's plenty of weakness built into the parry unless done perfectly.
Throws being done back to back doesn't contribute anything meaningful, especially when it's not universally available.
Nah but fr we need more people talking about buttons like dragonlash in this game. I'm new to SF as a franchise, only having played SF6, but good god does this game love it's full screen plus/safe on block options that are usually invulnerable to one or more types of attacks. Good video though, IMO if you're crying about perfect parry, you're just mad you got read by a 2f input and got punished. If it were such a problem, you'd see it happening way more in every match.
High MR players can deal with dragon lash spamming, it is annoying but not as deadly as perfect parry, this thing is a problem in high level match up. Yet I don't agree to remove or nerf it, because sf6 is a game heavy bias for attacker already
@@computervision557 Oh i don't think there aren't options for dealing with things like dragonlash spam or any other move akin to it. I just dont like the design philosophy of full screen options are PLUS on block, let alone safe. To me those kinds of moves should be used as reads or callouts to punish specific things like fireballs, not just cheat turns for basically free. Again though on the perfect parry discussion, I think if you're getting perfect parried a ton, either your opponent is really fuckin good, or you're getting too obvious with your strings and need to change things up. Just my opinion tho
The issue with perfect parry against meaties stems from drive gauge damage, side switch, lack of risk, and perceived randomness.
For drive gauge damage, as an example, if I hit a cr. mk xx dr combo and secure a knockdown, and then go for a meaty that gets perfect parried, my opponent will often be plus enough for a perfect parry into heavy xx DI afterwards. That leaves me on my ass, my opponent being +23, and me with 1 bar of drive meter to their 6. Even my opponent settling for a simple backthrow grants a punish counter, resulting in a loss of another bar of drive. For characters that use drive to continue their pressure, PP becomes very punitive.
You're never safe on offense against a cornered opponent. The universal defensive trifecta of backdash, mash, and perfect parry give the opponent several opportunities to side-switch you for trying to apply pressure on their wakeup, as long as they guess correctly. Your reward for spending drive to corner the opponent is, with some regularity, a correct guess cornering you instead.
Attempts at perfect parry come with little risk. Whiff parry results in blocking any further incoming attacks. It takes a commit to a throw or DI (if the opponent is cornered) to punish a bad wakeup tap parry. Considering that the benefit of landing the tap parry is the opponent getting to damage your drive gauge, corner you, or kill you, the amount of reward is not equal to the amount of risk.
Varying the buttons for your meaties just results in feel-bad moments where you are unsure if the opponent mistimed their perfect parry or just read your offense correctly. In the situation where you griped about opponents getting to perform a knockdown into a meaty attack with some consistency, if they change their timing or adjust the button, the outcome isn't much different. If you missed your parry timing, you can still sometimes get a perfect parry against their offense.
This isn't even tipping into how braindead tap parry in neutral, or as a hedge when you whiff a big button to still get a functional frame 1 invincible anti-air that offers a grounded combo. You talk about how PP punishes a player with a rote offense, but in actuality it promotes a very rote set of responses on defense. Once they're out of tick throw range, tap parry really can't get punished, the opponent can only rejump or restart pressure. Even then, it's quite common if you notice your parry didn't latch to drive rush. It'll eat jump inputs and if the opponent throws you out of the drive rush, it's the base throw damage and you lose the same amount of drive either way. Strings like that light string that you showed with Jamie let the Jamie player figure out what the opponent's defensive habits are, you're gathering data from seeing your opponent's responses. It's low risk, but it's also low reward. However, with PP in the mix, it's not really possible to gather data that way without possibly handing the opponent an opportunity to uno reverse the offensive situation that you had just earned. The existence of PP also results in characters like Rashid getting shipped with close to no functional anti-airs against decent disjointed jump-ins, it's why there's a plethora of fucked up special moves in the game, and it's why Honda's designed the way he is. PP provides this baseline safety net of always giving this option to anyone willing to mash parry at disadvantage, on wakeup, or after mistakes to occasionally get rewarded for doing so, but I think this homogenizes the defensive experience and makes running your offense that much more difficult and random.
Sounds like a SF5 player problem
engagement
MY MAN! But I hope they nerf Chun tho
1:05-1:40 did you just say that something in a new game is harder than an older game espically 3rd strike the FGC geeks are going to go crazy if they see this video.
I don't play SF of any kind but i like hearing about stuff on games that seems unbalanced, i play wow most of the times and obviously it has some of these issues because the devs were trying to fix something that maybe didn't need to be fixed but this time at least i can see it as a good resource for SF
I don't have sympathy for ppl who said this mechanic on release was weak lol. Lowish risk mechanic that essentially gives you a free optimal oki punish? Who cares about the damage scaling if you win the corner instantly?
I for one love that Perfect Parry strongly discourages meaty strike other than safejump.