Yep I was deathly afraid of automatics until I learned em in tech school, just hold a different spot on a planetary gear set and you can get 3 speeds. Use some hydraulic pressure to do the holding of bands or clutch packs when and where you want , and BAM YOURE SMOKIN TIRE BABY!! Of course as 80s kids, yes we installed a shift kit in a th350 and screwed something up and didn't have 3rd gear or reverse, who hasn't 🤣🤣
My 727 had something weld itself together I think. Is that rare? It goes forward fine but lost neutral, staying in first, and reverse, I think going into both first and reverse simultaneously. The parking pall but the engine stays loaded in first. so did a friction surface wear out and then the steel backing weld up? and if so, in which part? and what do I do about it? I would actually love to improve the efficiency of my '78 B200 while still being able to tow light trailers slowly, so maybe I should use this opportunity to find an early overdrive 4 speed? and locking converter? or pull parts from my other, '73, 3 speed manual van to put together with a 5 or overdrive 4 speed? or possibly a granny gear 4 speed, I love the one in my truck, if I can also source a highway rear-end? I had one but it was stolen. I'm not sure I'm up for all the linkage design though and trying to source floor shift van parts.
I've done many manual transmissions over the years but, I'm just now getting ready to tear into my first automatic. It's a Ford C4 and I consider myself very blessed to have found an original Ford service manual at a swap meet about a month ago. The guy wanted $25 for it and I didn't even try to haggle with him, SOLD!
@@aaronblyth596 I'm waiting on the rebuild kit now. I ordered a TCI kit and it's supposed to be here Tuesday. I won't be around to check it out until Wednesday evening though.
C-4 was the first auto I ever rebuilt, you can do it. You will need a spring compressor, something like UT showed in his other video should work iirc. Have fun, one of the easier ones to do.
@@stever.7008 Thanks. I chose the C4 because I happened to have one sitting in a corner of my mostly GM square body pickup shop, I do have a couple of cool Mopar trucks living there too though. However, my current project is a V-8 Ranger swap. It's getting a mild 302 so, I figured the C-4 would work well behind it.
The C-4 geartrain is exactly the same as the A904, 999 and 727 Torqueflite. The C-6 is similar except that is uses a low-reverse clutch rather than a band.
There is a channel called Precision Transmission that is a must watch for Automatic Transmissions if one is looking for tutorials from a Master. Good people and highly recommend. This man knows it all and if he doesn't know will find out. His son is just as knowledgeable if you could just imagine. Transmissions aren't his limit once you see his race car. Family operated too.
@@UncleTonysGarage Have you heard of Southpaw Autoworks? The guy only has 1 hand. It's right up there with Precision Transmission. Check out this video....only a minute long. ruclips.net/video/y3Vixa_Ec1E/видео.html
Do it right the 1st time. Delays are always a bummer. But, better a short delay vs. doing the whole job over again. I wonder if that plastic bushing you grabbed from the parts bin is throwing things off. May as well get a metal one if you gotta call the trans shop.
Yep right on the outer edge of clearance with new parts I would have made the same choice to. I think they have thicker spacers you can buy in steps of two thousands or like you said a thicker snap ring very good video.
Depending on the transmission, thicker snap rings OR thicker steels are available, the steels are generally (but not always) .005 thicker. They are available from Transtar, WIT and Cobra. Use as necessary to get correct clutch pack clearance.
@@UncleTonysGarageMr Uncle Tony. Is it completely possible that Mr. Josh is a quick learner? May I please suggest that our next wrap up with you guys ends with you asking the viewer is they’ve learned something. Take a tactical pause and then Josh says, “I got something out of this Uncle Tony. Thank you.” Then the video ends as you would normally like to. Then I buy the T-shirt of that final statement from Josh. The nice woman in the T-shirt factory can make them. Everyone wins.
Recommendation, toward the end, they decided to get some parts. I completely agree. However, for a home builder such as myself, I recommend putting the thing back together while you wait. Less chance of dirt and debris getting in there, and less chance of forgetting how it goes together. This day and age the parts can take some time to get. Good vid UT!
True if you order them from Cobra or some other online vendor. Transtar and WIT (if you live near a city where they have an outlet) is same day for most kits, the catch is they only sell to the auto repair trade.
@@donreinke5863 either way. As a home builder, I'm recommending to another home builder to take the time to put it back together while you wait, the amount of debris in the wrong spot on any automatic transmission is very little. Easier to bolt it together while waiting.
@@Z_732 The way I started doing it back in the 80s was to disassemble them, lay the parts out in order removed, then clean the case starting with the tailshaft housing and main case with a pressure washer. Each component was cleaned before installation and each sub-assembly (clutch drums/packs was cleaned and new frictions and steels installed, then replaced into the case. Sealing rings are replaced on the front pump along with converter seal and the stator support bolts are tightened with the pump assembly installed in the torque converter to ensure correct alignment. Pump rotors....rear pump also if equipped (pre 1965 units) are coated with petroleum jelly or Transjel. Valve body and servos are next.
I appreciate that you didn't just slam it together for video's sake after you found that excess clearance. You nail home the importance of doing the job correctly.
I always made a mess. Loosening the valve body bolts to let it drain is a great idea. Never thought of that one. So simple. When you think about how long that 727 has been around and still kicks ass.... It's older than me.
I welded a small plate to the center of the pan so I could put a 1/4 inch npt pug hole so I could drain it easier if I had to again. I used the same hole to put a temperature sending unit in it. I used long set screws and flange nuts to hold the pan back on seamed to make the gasket easier to line up under the car. The accelerated pedal pressure pin I put in backwards and it would not upshift. The pin looks the same size on both sides,but is not. Glad I put the drain plug in.
If you can successfully rebuild an automatic transmission, you can accomplish ANYTHING. I've always been in awe with the people who not only know how to rebuild automatic transmissions, but know how to rebuild any make and type of automatic transmission!
Josh definitely has mechanical talent! My friend rebuilt the TH350 in his '79 Camaro, and he brought the case to a transmission shop to have it cleaned, and he said that the employees of the shop all came out to gawk at the guy rebuilding his own transmission!🤣 And Tony, can you point out that sprag to us, the one which self destructs when you do a neutral drop? Excellent video!!!
Did that with a diesel injector pump. Got a gasket kit at a rebuild shop, and the guys like : everyone usually messes those up, so should I schedule an appointment now? I told him that I'm not just anyone, pal....yep I'll get all braggart when I need to, and then back it up. I drove in a day later after it was done and played dumb and asked them what the idle speed should be and I can probably cancel that appointment. Dude was surprised it ran. If you think ya need to keep a carb clean during a rebuild, try an injection pump, it's best to be surgeon clean.
Leave the wave plate out on 2nd gear on a th350 it will shift harder but will destroy the intermidiate sprag. Just rebuilt mine and the person i got the truck from left it out...
could be like me, tear one down and the weather jumps below 10F with howling winds for weeks on end. end result was dropped it off at trans shop already tore down, because they were way cheaper than heating the garage enough to work. stupendous ehh?
I have a better one than that. I had my wife repair a no-reverse condition in a BMW with a ZF 5HP19 automatic transmission to give her some experience with automatics.We went into the BMW dealership, she told them she needed a reverse clutch drum and the guy went back behind the shelves. Next thing, all kinds of parts guys and some of the techs were snooping around shelves (trying and failing to be sneaky) to see the "woman who was ordering transmission parts"
Great to see you diving into a trans on the channel!! I'd swear it was you, in some magazine eons ago that gave me all those low/no buck torqueflite performance tips I've been using- 1) Accumulator spring- throw it away 2) Turn down the govenor weights 3)Use type F fluid, it's less "slippery", that's all that spendy name brand performance fluid really is... 4) Turn up line pressure These few tricks have elicited "you got a shift kit" comments a lot over the years!! Disclaimer: Obviously an actual shift kit will have different and better results, but for a budget build, those really help!!!👍
I rebuilt a TH350 in my kitchen many years ago. It probably didn't need it looking back because it was from a granny car with like 60k miles, but i did it anyway "just cause". Still working like a dream.
Great video showing how to use the K.I.S.S. philosophy. Automatics are the one component I've never explored. Mostly because I almost never buy a car with an automatic, but also because I just never needed to open one up. My Father rebuilt a 727 out of his '68 Coronet R/T in the parking spot outside our apartment in Milwaukee on summer day. It was perfect, except for his adjustment of he bands...he burned them up in less than a few miles. Lesson learned.
My A12 had its trans rebuilt by a quality shop and I lost park. It’s been sitting for the last couple weeks waiting for me to take the tail shaft off to see what’s up. So it’s funny you posted this. I was told by many people that it’s not a scary thing to just look in there to see. If you can build the 440 race motor in your basement you can check the park pawl out!
I used to rebuild transmissions back in thr 70s. I told people you could rebuild a tourqeflite with a pair of needle nose pliers and a hammer. One of the greatest transmissions ever ! And I'm a bowtie man ! The only thing bad about a tourqeflite was the trans fluid used to gell. A lot of people paid for a rebuild when they only had to flush the fluid and change the fluid. Also the valve body had rubber plugs you could pull out to make the tyranny shift harder.
NOT a tutorial? NOT Torqueflite specific? NOW you tell me! Well now I've got my Corvair Powerglide tranny disassembled and spread out on the floor and nothing looks like anything Josh has pulled out yet... HELP...! JK, I've rebuilt a '66 727 and it was fine. That valve body is a piece of hydraulic art!
I would have ditched the wavy ring and tried placing another friction. The wavy is there to just dampen the shift , not as a spacer as stated . Those frictions should be @ .062 Another trick is also use a th350 snap ring and you could usually add another friction and a steel. Lots you can do . Wish it were Live, I could have walked you through , just modified a 46rh , added extra clutches and steels in the forward / reverse drums and over drive drums .
I hang transmissions by the bellhousing from my engine hoist to drain them, or I put it on my stand with the fixture I made to hold that particular type of transmission and let it drain. Its nice having it all easy to access rather than sitting on a bench. I have to admit the 727 and 904 are super easy to rebuild.
This is why I horde transmissions, I have found different thickness apply and backing plates from factory so when I get smashing different and more clutches in I have a way to work those specs in. Side note, I like to pull the stator out of the pump and check the internals for wear (and cause I deal with a lot of diesel stuff, make sure that it actually has a diesel pump in it.)
I just had a cracked stator support on a Ford AOD. Spent a few hours yesterday pulling a transmission at the wrecking yard and raiding the stator support. Cost me $10.00 NOS pump assembly online was $150, but looked like it had surface rust.
Just for giggles I'd take it apart and reassemble just to make sure everything is flush and proper orientation. Maybe spin that wave C-clip around 180 to see if it settles into it's groove into a more acceptable fashion.
when I would deliver parts as a kid to Transmission Shops ... Those dudes have Special tool's.. Yeah I'll pay ya ... I'm Stoked for ya Dude.. Get at it Brother @∅
I have 2 big block 727's sitting on my garage floor that supposedly worked when pulled. After watching this I think I have the confidence to rebuild one before installing it instead of crossing my fingers and hoping it works. Great video!
They will work.. Torqueflites (3 speed ones) are easy. My wife rebuilt one a while back and painted it titty pink to piss off the guy who brought it in because he didnt think a girl could rebuild transmissions. Make sure you use the 4 clutch reverse/high drum, some lighter duty Torqueflites used a 3 clutch drum.
When I did my 46re te rear band was worn bad. I had to reorder it 3 times to get the correct one and I could only get it from Amazon fer some reason. Both O'Reilly and Napa could only get the wrong one. The lighter duty one. But I figured better wait till I found the correct one than try with wrong one. I did test fit dry until I had correct one then presoaked it.
great working with him! and being slow and methodical!! it makes it all work !! good jobTony!! great video! great channel! watch it all the time!! keep it up!!
It awakened in me a memory of a TV commercial for a Transmission company: a shade tree mechanic said "I always wanted to work on a Japanese transmission". Many years ago.
Do it right, or do it twice. Those specs are there for a reason and if it's out of spec (or nearly) then it ain't right. Could also take that time to find a metallic spacer ring instead of the plastic!
Gotta really have an eye for wear and worn parts, something easily overlooked with a groove or 2 can ruin your day on a trans. Taking apart a valve body gets a lot of folks in real trouble. It's nice to see a new part vs old one sometimes,until ya pick up the skill of eyeballing for wear and that just comes with time and working around junk 😁
I stack it all up just the way it was removed, replace parts and restack as i go then put it all back in just as it came apart except now with new parts. Torque fasteners to spec, no guessing. While I'm in there going to the trouble, I replace all the bushings.
Wavy snap rings: the earlier 727s don’t have them, they came along around 1970 or a bit later. They were a way to soften the shifts… as the clutch pack starts to compress, it meets the resistance of the wavy ring and starts to engage, then fully engages when the waves are compressed flat. It sorts does for a clutch pack what the accumulator does for the front band. I like to eliminate them from the front clutch and use a flat snap ring so the 2-3 shift is a bit firmer, but keep in the rear clutch so neutral to drive isn’t bone rattling.
From what im seeing (atleast 4l60e) is that many shops are getting friction clearence dry. For us home guys we should do the same, then soak them after we know the clearance is good. Soaked clutches can make it harder to install ither parts.
Been a very long time since I've been inside a T/F trans. Brings back childhood memories. You realize Tony, that you just triggered a small percentage of your audience at 4:45 when you suggested the bush replacment is optional, as long as it's ok. I can hear the screams now 🤣 Great to see this kind of video again, and that young fella is no numpty, confident and ready to get into it. Well done.
I learned how to rebuild one simply because I didnt have the money shops wanted and because shop wouldnt explain what they planned on replacing? I know they normally dont but I deal better knowing they are replacing all seals especially since they are included in the rebuild kit. Finaly met someone that rebuilt transmissions and had a transmission parts store. He even quoted me a more reasonable price to rebuild but by this time I was determined to do it myself. James politely tried to discharge me but hesitantly sold me a good rebuild kit and eventualy explained how to get the dang tailhousing loose. LOL UTG hasnt gotten that far so wont spoil it for others. Also the spag assembly some trans ate mirror image and can be installed backwards. Learned this on a dodge dakota. After rebuilding you put it into reverse and it hits realy hard it's a sighn its backwards.
I was 18 when I did my broken borgwarner 35 trans out of ny VG Valiant. I had no choice because I could not afford to pay the $800 recon price. Seems I got it right and it never failed again. Didn't know to pre-soak the clutch plates though I was told the diaphragm (bellivule) spring should be replaced as a matter of course as they can fracture.
i'v seen it before though i'v never done it, you could try to take a 3rd gear clutch and put it in since they're a small bit thicker than the 1st gear clutches
Worked at a Ford dealership starting in 1987 till 2006 in the the last 10 years was rebuilding the E4OD and the C6 and the AOD. Had a acquaintance that had a trans repair shop. I rebuilt transmissions at home having a big garage with the necessities. You have to have specs for end play of the assemblies you need clutch gap specs and a map for those pesky check balls and on a valve body needs to be disassembled inspected and cleaned on a failure trans on a fresh up soak and check free movements of the valves. Tony the shift improver kits the better ones I have used Transgo they are the best very easy to use awesome instructions the thing is you have to have acess to specks I did and my builds no issues today no support all on memory and done on that front no way I could remember is what it is hell i rebuilt a 1957 Olds trans a weird duck front and rear pumps to push start and 2 torque converters stacked But I had the manual ran great.
I just did my first 4r100... It's soooo different from a torqueflite!!! I was petrified when I found out there were loose check balls in there LOL!!! Had to whip up a couple new widgets, and found a few hard parts that needed replaced,but got through it ok....
I have an A-999 that I likely will have to rip apart before long. It operates pretty well but it never wanted to downshift right while at highway speeds. When I first got the car years ago I was trying to peddle to the metal it up. Very steep hill and something made a very loud POP and bang near the driver's side of the floor board. From what I remember things with the kickdown happened after that. Also progressively getting worse is a loud squak-sqweal noise when I start the engine cold. I believe it is a bushing in the front pump. It started just doing it when the car sat for weeks and the temperature outside was cold. But if started in neutral it didn't do it. Then it started doing it when started in neutral as well even in the summer. And now it does it no matter what and quite loudly. And then even for a few minutes after starting if you rev the engine. So I know it's going bad.
Just air check every clutch drum, make sure the pump body’s are good, triple check valve body gaskets if applicable, and throw a new set of pump gears in there if the body isn’t worn. To be extra safe vacuum check the main parts of the valve body. It’s super simple to make a vacuum tester and if you don’t have a pump you could, in a pinch, use manifold vacuum from an engine. Sonnax has a good page showing what your readings should be and where to test at. Sui Automotive has a good video on how to build a vacuum tester. These 727 are one of the simplest transmissions to take apart and easiest to rebuild. Not a whole lot of year model changes like in all the modern electronically controlled units. Sonnax also has diagrams showing where the feed orifice holes are in the plate if you want to for go a engineered shift kit. Also a couple turns counterclockwise on the PR spring definitely helps out. Don’t let line pressure get above 200. Also for clutch clearances you can use different thickness steels from the direct clutch and also there is different thickness clutches and backing plates. In a pinch you could also shave the clutch off on one side and stick to clutches together ect. Anytime you modify something like that watch for interference sometimes it’s not obvious and only will happen if a clutch is applied or when the gear train moves back and forth in the case. Good luck if you have a question I would gladly answer it.
I've rebuilt several transmissions over the years. To make things easier, find an old table and drill a big hole in it, enough to get the output shaft through so you can stand it up tail down for easier assembly, as well as things like the rear clutch. It doesn't need to pretty, just 2 sawhorses and a piece of plywood is way better than having to grow an extra hand to assemble things correctly. If they're cheap (
The guy who taught me how on my 727 used a metal foldin chair. I made a workbench from my daughter's loft bed and left 1 side without a cover fer the same reason
Usually the kits have different thickness clutches for the 2 drums but they are similar otherwise. I've interchanged them to achieve satisfactory clearances in this situation.
I’ve rebuilt a manual transmission a time or two, but automatic transmissions are like voodoo science to me….I think even transmission shops feel the same, since half the time, they fail after rebuilding them. Great video UTG!
8:35 there's a lot you can do for something you've never dealt with before. Cardboard is a big help ,draw a picture of the item on it and cut bolt holes and stick them in as you remove them one by one. Or use the part itself. For example,you could stick all of the pan bolts back in the holes in the pan. Stick the bolts back thru the front pump housing. Use a few different colors to mark bolts ,and around the area they go into if they are different lengths like old Ford water pumps. Have a big area for the teardown , remove one piece at a time and restack the parts back together on the floor. Tape and bailing wire is helpful to secure an item into something that you don't want to take apart yet, like a governor assembly for a trans ,or you want to hold your accessory brackets together with your cobbed up shims for belt alignment in the right places 😁 I generally do this at work , because a few minutes now helps reassembly go so much quicker. And the more you do that job and get confident at it ,then you can start to take away your "crutches" as you see fit.
From my experience, with something this complex, and if it were my first time doing it, I wouldn’t throw away any gasket without carefully matching it to what was in the rebuild kit. But even this plan isn’t fool proof, as I later found a previous person had used the wrong gasket, so I repeated his mistake. If it’s a fits all rebuild kit with extra gaskets, look very carefully.
It looked like Josh set the wavy ring down with the side facing away from him down, where everything else was set down as if it was falling out of the pack towards him... I don't know if that would make a difference, but I know about as much about automatics as he does.
Hey tony, dumb related question. What's your opinion on flushing and cleaning a torque converter for a 727? Possible, dumb or otherwise? doing a 318 to 360 swap and was thinking about just trading converters but Id rather get a better start if possible without buying a new one if possible.
This is very much in the FWIW category, because I am merely a viewer of lots of repair videos. This transmission has apparently NOT self machined bits of metal from its parts, contaminating every other part in the r transmission. From such a tranny you would not want to immediately go into reassembly of sub assembly mode, as you have in this video. Furthermore, I understand it is extremely difficult to get rid of such contamination in a home repair environment, so be careful there. And you might want to leave those seals in place until such time as the cleaned part is being reassembled. Some seals are the same size, but are really shaped differently. You need to be sure you have the correct seal for that part. I love this sort of thing and I thank you for presenting it. I think I want to get a core just to diddle with it for myself!
can you get a parts list to replace and upgrade a torque flight 727 36rh and or 37rh 727 tf-8 it is in my old 1980 Maserati Quattroporte III that came with a torque flight And I want to make it better for upgrades: 'improvement' kits, specifically the Transgo SK-TF or the TF-1 enhancements (slightly crisper shifting, additional downshift control). Good clutches and bands make a big difference. I would get a better kick-down lever too. The stock transmission have a 2.8 to 1 lever. If i can get a 3.2, 4.2 or even a 5.0 lever it will really firm up the 1/2 shift.
If you don’t have a slide hammer to remove the pump, put spacers in the holes that are threaded in the pump and thread a bolt in there to press the pump out. Has worked great for me, even on rusted up crap. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone do this so maybe there’s a reason not to?
Yes you can, you get another of that last plate that that was layed on the table at 10:28 and machine enough of that lump off, so you can use it as the clutch pack retainer plate in the front drum. You can reuse one of the steels and clutch discs and this allows for an additional disc for 3rd and reverse gears. Remember that when you reinstall snap rings to have the sharp edge against the (load) side of what ever your installing it into. When you look closely at a snap ring, you will see that one edge has a slight curve to it. This is because they are stamped out of a piece of steel.
The man is a well of.Noledge that just keeps giving. I appreciate uncle Tony's time !! I have learned so much from this man.Just wish he liked playing with 4×4 's
I rebuilt one of those 20+ years ago. Prob the easiest and cheapest automatic I have ever done. IT was actually quite enjoyable.
Yep I was deathly afraid of automatics until I learned em in tech school, just hold a different spot on a planetary gear set and you can get 3 speeds.
Use some hydraulic pressure to do the holding of bands or clutch packs when and where you want , and BAM YOURE SMOKIN TIRE BABY!!
Of course as 80s kids, yes we installed a shift kit in a th350 and screwed something up and didn't have 3rd gear or reverse, who hasn't 🤣🤣
My 727 had something weld itself together I think. Is that rare? It goes forward fine but lost neutral, staying in first, and reverse, I think going into both first and reverse simultaneously. The parking pall but the engine stays loaded in first. so did a friction surface wear out and then the steel backing weld up? and if so, in which part? and what do I do about it?
I would actually love to improve the efficiency of my '78 B200 while still being able to tow light trailers slowly, so maybe I should use this opportunity to find an early overdrive 4 speed? and locking converter? or pull parts from my other, '73, 3 speed manual van to put together with a 5 or overdrive 4 speed? or possibly a granny gear 4 speed, I love the one in my truck, if I can also source a highway rear-end? I had one but it was stolen. I'm not sure I'm up for all the linkage design though and trying to source floor shift van parts.
I've done many manual transmissions over the years but, I'm just now getting ready to tear into my first automatic. It's a Ford C4 and I consider myself very blessed to have found an original Ford service manual at a swap meet about a month ago. The guy wanted $25 for it and I didn't even try to haggle with him, SOLD!
Hey Mike, let me know how you get on with your C4.
I also want to attempt a rebuild on one but am a bit nervous about it.
Wish you well. 👍🏽
@@aaronblyth596 I'm waiting on the rebuild kit now. I ordered a TCI kit and it's supposed to be here Tuesday. I won't be around to check it out until Wednesday evening though.
C-4 was the first auto I ever rebuilt, you can do it. You will need a spring compressor, something like UT showed in his other video should work iirc. Have fun, one of the easier ones to do.
@@stever.7008 Thanks. I chose the C4 because I happened to have one sitting in a corner of my mostly GM square body pickup shop, I do have a couple of cool Mopar trucks living there too though. However, my current project is a V-8 Ranger swap. It's getting a mild 302 so, I figured the C-4 would work well behind it.
The C-4 geartrain is exactly the same as the A904, 999 and 727 Torqueflite.
The C-6 is similar except that is uses a low-reverse clutch rather than a band.
That bit about taking it apart and putting it back together, not many will actually do that, BUT it is excellent advice
There is a channel called Precision Transmission that is a must watch for Automatic Transmissions if one is looking for tutorials from a Master.
Good people and highly recommend. This man knows it all and if he doesn't know will find out. His son is just as knowledgeable if you could just imagine.
Transmissions aren't his limit once you see his race car. Family operated too.
Yup! I should have done a shoutout to that channel in this video, but it didn't occur to me. I'll get him the next time around.
That channel died. The dad and son are fighting. No new content.
@@UncleTonysGarage Have you heard of Southpaw Autoworks?
The guy only has 1 hand. It's right up there with Precision Transmission.
Check out this video....only a minute long.
ruclips.net/video/y3Vixa_Ec1E/видео.html
Do it right the 1st time. Delays are always a bummer. But, better a short delay vs. doing the whole job over again. I wonder if that plastic bushing you grabbed from the parts bin is throwing things off. May as well get a metal one if you gotta call the trans shop.
Yep right on the outer edge of clearance with new parts I would have made the same choice to. I think they have thicker spacers you can buy in steps of two thousands or like you said a thicker snap ring very good video.
Depending on the transmission, thicker snap rings OR thicker steels are available, the steels are generally (but not always) .005 thicker. They are available from Transtar, WIT and Cobra. Use as necessary to get correct clutch pack clearance.
Its nice to see someone on the channel that has a good general idea of what they are doing and not a creepy weirdo.
You said a mouthful!
@@UncleTonysGarageMr Uncle Tony. Is it completely possible that Mr. Josh is a quick learner? May I please suggest that our next wrap up with you guys ends with you asking the viewer is they’ve learned something. Take a tactical pause and then Josh says, “I got something out of this Uncle Tony. Thank you.” Then the video ends as you would normally like to. Then I buy the T-shirt of that final statement from Josh. The nice woman in the T-shirt factory can make them. Everyone wins.
That third usage of the word is in my reply should have been corrected by myself to the word if before I pushed it out.
Lol
Recommendation, toward the end, they decided to get some parts. I completely agree. However, for a home builder such as myself, I recommend putting the thing back together while you wait. Less chance of dirt and debris getting in there, and less chance of forgetting how it goes together. This day and age the parts can take some time to get. Good vid UT!
True if you order them from Cobra or some other online vendor.
Transtar and WIT (if you live near a city where they have an outlet) is same day for most kits, the catch is they only sell to the auto repair trade.
@@donreinke5863 either way. As a home builder, I'm recommending to another home builder to take the time to put it back together while you wait, the amount of debris in the wrong spot on any automatic transmission is very little. Easier to bolt it together while waiting.
@@Z_732 The way I started doing it back in the 80s was to disassemble them, lay the parts out in order removed, then clean the case starting with the tailshaft housing and main case with a pressure washer. Each component was cleaned before installation and each sub-assembly (clutch drums/packs was cleaned and new frictions and steels installed, then replaced into the case. Sealing rings are replaced on the front pump along with converter seal and the stator support bolts are tightened with the pump assembly installed in the torque converter to ensure correct alignment. Pump rotors....rear pump also if equipped (pre 1965 units) are coated with petroleum jelly or Transjel. Valve body and servos are next.
I appreciate that you didn't just slam it together for video's sake after you found that excess clearance. You nail home the importance of doing the job correctly.
They make different thickness clutch plates and steels for this reason. And you can order the plates in singles to get the clearances you need.
I always made a mess. Loosening the valve body bolts to let it drain is a great idea. Never thought of that one. So simple. When you think about how long that 727 has been around and still kicks ass.... It's older than me.
I welded a small plate to the center of the pan so I could put a 1/4 inch npt pug hole so I could drain it easier if I had to again. I used the same hole to put a temperature sending unit in it.
I used long set screws and flange nuts to hold the pan back on seamed to make the gasket easier to line up under the car.
The accelerated pedal pressure pin I put in backwards and it would not upshift. The pin looks the same size on both sides,but is not. Glad I put the drain plug in.
Thanks Uncle Tony. I'm 72 and jumping into my first 727
If you can successfully rebuild an automatic transmission, you can accomplish ANYTHING. I've always been in awe with the people who not only know how to rebuild automatic transmissions, but know how to rebuild any make and type of automatic transmission!
Josh definitely has mechanical talent!
My friend rebuilt the TH350 in his '79 Camaro, and he brought the case to a transmission shop to have it cleaned, and he said that the employees of the shop all came out to gawk at the guy rebuilding his own transmission!🤣
And Tony, can you point out that sprag to us, the one which self destructs when you do a neutral drop? Excellent video!!!
Did that with a diesel injector pump.
Got a gasket kit at a rebuild shop, and the guys like : everyone usually messes those up, so should I schedule an appointment now?
I told him that I'm not just anyone, pal....yep I'll get all braggart when I need to, and then back it up.
I drove in a day later after it was done and played dumb and asked them what the idle speed should be and I can probably cancel that appointment.
Dude was surprised it ran.
If you think ya need to keep a carb clean during a rebuild, try an injection pump, it's best to be surgeon clean.
Leave the wave plate out on 2nd gear on a th350 it will shift harder but will destroy the intermidiate sprag. Just rebuilt mine and the person i got the truck from left it out...
could be like me, tear one down and the weather jumps below 10F with howling winds for weeks on end. end result was dropped it off at trans shop already tore down, because they were way cheaper than heating the garage enough to work. stupendous ehh?
I have a better one than that. I had my wife repair a no-reverse condition in a BMW with a ZF 5HP19 automatic transmission to give her some experience with automatics.We went into the BMW dealership, she told them she needed a reverse clutch drum and the guy went back behind the shelves.
Next thing, all kinds of parts guys and some of the techs were snooping around shelves (trying and failing to be sneaky) to see the "woman who was ordering transmission parts"
@@hollowell427if he would’ve shimmed it correctly it would’ve worked, leaving those out, is common, which sounds like a surprise to you?
CRT and A and A Transmission are awesome to work with for all the mopar transmssion parts
Great to see you diving into a trans on the channel!! I'd swear it was you, in some magazine eons ago that gave me all those low/no buck torqueflite performance tips I've been using-
1) Accumulator spring- throw it away
2) Turn down the govenor weights
3)Use type F fluid, it's less "slippery", that's all that spendy name brand performance fluid really is...
4) Turn up line pressure
These few tricks have elicited "you got a shift kit" comments a lot over the years!!
Disclaimer: Obviously an actual shift kit will have different and better results, but for a budget build, those really help!!!👍
I rebuilt one last year. Got the shift kit. So far so good. I had to adjust carb for the value pressure. After that it's been good.
I rebuilt a TH350 in my kitchen many years ago. It probably didn't need it looking back because it was from a granny car with like 60k miles, but i did it anyway "just cause". Still working like a dream.
Great video showing how to use the K.I.S.S. philosophy. Automatics are the one component I've never explored. Mostly because I almost never buy a car with an automatic, but also because I just never needed to open one up. My Father rebuilt a 727 out of his '68 Coronet R/T in the parking spot outside our apartment in Milwaukee on summer day. It was perfect, except for his adjustment of he bands...he burned them up in less than a few miles. Lesson learned.
...I learned how to properly adjust the bands on the few TorqueFlite's I've owned over the years, and they all performed perfectly.
My A12 had its trans rebuilt by a quality shop and I lost park. It’s been sitting for the last couple weeks waiting for me to take the tail shaft off to see what’s up. So it’s funny you posted this. I was told by many people that it’s not a scary thing to just look in there to see. If you can build the 440 race motor in your basement you can check the park pawl out!
I used to rebuild transmissions back in thr 70s. I told people you could rebuild a tourqeflite with a pair of needle nose pliers and a hammer. One of the greatest transmissions ever ! And I'm a bowtie man ! The only thing bad about a tourqeflite was the trans fluid used to gell. A lot of people paid for a rebuild when they only had to flush the fluid and change the fluid. Also the valve body had rubber plugs you could pull out to make the tyranny shift harder.
NOT a tutorial? NOT Torqueflite specific? NOW you tell me! Well now I've got my Corvair Powerglide tranny disassembled and spread out on the floor and nothing looks like anything Josh has pulled out yet... HELP...! JK, I've rebuilt a '66 727 and it was fine. That valve body is a piece of hydraulic art!
I would have ditched the wavy ring and tried placing another friction. The wavy is there to just dampen the shift , not as a spacer as stated .
Those frictions should be @ .062
Another trick is also use a th350 snap ring and you could usually add another friction and a steel. Lots you can do .
Wish it were Live, I could have walked you through , just modified a 46rh , added extra clutches and steels in the forward / reverse drums and over drive drums .
Lol you need a wave sometimes…
727 best transmission ever made!!
I hang transmissions by the bellhousing from my engine hoist to drain them, or I put it on my stand with the fixture I made to hold that particular type of transmission and let it drain. Its nice having it all easy to access rather than sitting on a bench. I have to admit the 727 and 904 are super easy to rebuild.
This is why I horde transmissions, I have found different thickness apply and backing plates from factory so when I get smashing different and more clutches in I have a way to work those specs in. Side note, I like to pull the stator out of the pump and check the internals for wear (and cause I deal with a lot of diesel stuff, make sure that it actually has a diesel pump in it.)
I just had a cracked stator support on a Ford AOD. Spent a few hours yesterday pulling a transmission at the wrecking yard and raiding the stator support. Cost me $10.00
NOS pump assembly online was $150, but looked like it had surface rust.
Just for giggles I'd take it apart and reassemble just to make sure everything is flush and proper orientation. Maybe spin that wave C-clip around 180 to see if it settles into it's groove into a more acceptable fashion.
Good idear.
If it wasn't seated fully in the grove it would not be too sloppy - it would be too tight.
when I would deliver parts as a kid to Transmission Shops ...
Those dudes have Special tool's..
Yeah I'll pay ya ...
I'm Stoked for ya Dude..
Get at it Brother
@∅
It is often frustrating to do the job right. But the reward can be worth it.
I have 2 big block 727's sitting on my garage floor that supposedly worked when pulled. After watching this I think I have the confidence to rebuild one before installing it instead of crossing my fingers and hoping it works. Great video!
They will work.. Torqueflites (3 speed ones) are easy. My wife rebuilt one a while back and painted it titty pink to piss off the guy who brought it in because he didnt think a girl could rebuild transmissions.
Make sure you use the 4 clutch reverse/high drum, some lighter duty Torqueflites used a 3 clutch drum.
When I did my 46re te rear band was worn bad. I had to reorder it 3 times to get the correct one and I could only get it from Amazon fer some reason. Both O'Reilly and Napa could only get the wrong one. The lighter duty one. But I figured better wait till I found the correct one than try with wrong one. I did test fit dry until I had correct one then presoaked it.
great working with him! and being slow and methodical!! it makes it all work !! good jobTony!! great video! great channel! watch it all the time!! keep it up!!
It awakened in me a memory of a TV commercial for a Transmission company: a shade tree mechanic said "I always wanted to work on a Japanese transmission". Many years ago.
And, "I watched a feller fix a trans-mishy-on, once."
Do it right, or do it twice. Those specs are there for a reason and if it's out of spec (or nearly) then it ain't right.
Could also take that time to find a metallic spacer ring instead of the plastic!
Gotta really have an eye for wear and worn parts, something easily overlooked with a groove or 2 can ruin your day on a trans.
Taking apart a valve body gets a lot of folks in real trouble.
It's nice to see a new part vs old one sometimes,until ya pick up the skill of eyeballing for wear and that just comes with time and working around junk 😁
I stack it all up just the way it was removed, replace parts and restack as i go then put it all back in just as it came apart except now with new parts.
Torque fasteners to spec, no guessing.
While I'm in there going to the trouble, I replace all the bushings.
Yup...I tell everyone to pull it apart like a loaf of bread. In order, one piece at a time, then back in it goes, same way.👍😁
Luv the slide hammer!!
Wavy snap rings: the earlier 727s don’t have them, they came along around 1970 or a bit later. They were a way to soften the shifts… as the clutch pack starts to compress, it meets the resistance of the wavy ring and starts to engage, then fully engages when the waves are compressed flat. It sorts does for a clutch pack what the accumulator does for the front band. I like to eliminate them from the front clutch and use a flat snap ring so the 2-3 shift is a bit firmer, but keep in the rear clutch so neutral to drive isn’t bone rattling.
I always wondered what those bands looked like when they're in. I work a parts reman company and reline those bands all the time.
So you’re the culprit.
@@alanmeyers3957 yeah I'm so bad at it I can ID them by eye and tell when they've bonded correctly by ear. XD
From what im seeing (atleast 4l60e) is that many shops are getting friction clearence dry. For us home guys we should do the same, then soak them after we know the clearance is good. Soaked clutches can make it harder to install ither parts.
Ive watched precision transmission for a long time and Richard is the Transmission wizard.
Been a very long time since I've been inside a T/F trans. Brings back childhood memories.
You realize Tony, that you just triggered a small percentage of your audience at 4:45 when you suggested the bush replacment is optional, as long as it's ok. I can hear the screams now 🤣
Great to see this kind of video again, and that young fella is no numpty, confident and ready to get into it. Well done.
Chrysler made a few of these 727s here when I grew up.
I learned how to rebuild one simply because I didnt have the money shops wanted and because shop wouldnt explain what they planned on replacing? I know they normally dont but I deal better knowing they are replacing all seals especially since they are included in the rebuild kit. Finaly met someone that rebuilt transmissions and had a transmission parts store. He even quoted me a more reasonable price to rebuild but by this time I was determined to do it myself. James politely tried to discharge me but hesitantly sold me a good rebuild kit and eventualy explained how to get the dang tailhousing loose. LOL
UTG hasnt gotten that far so wont spoil it for others. Also the spag assembly some trans ate mirror image and can be installed backwards. Learned this on a dodge dakota. After rebuilding you put it into reverse and it hits realy hard it's a sighn its backwards.
I was 18 when I did my broken borgwarner 35 trans out of ny VG Valiant. I had no choice because I could not afford to pay the $800 recon price. Seems I got it right and it never failed again. Didn't know to pre-soak the clutch plates though I was told the diaphragm (bellivule) spring should be replaced as a matter of course as they can fracture.
i'v seen it before though i'v never done it, you could try to take a 3rd gear clutch and put it in since they're a small bit thicker than the 1st gear clutches
Worked at a Ford dealership starting in 1987 till 2006 in the the last 10 years was rebuilding the E4OD and the C6 and the AOD. Had a acquaintance that had a trans repair shop. I rebuilt transmissions at home having a big garage with the necessities. You have to have specs for end play of the assemblies you need clutch gap specs and a map for those pesky check balls and on a valve body needs to be disassembled inspected and cleaned on a failure trans on a fresh up soak and check free movements of the valves. Tony the shift improver kits the better ones I have used Transgo they are the best very easy to use awesome instructions the thing is you have to have acess to specks I did and my builds no issues today no support all on memory and done on that front no way I could remember is what it is hell i rebuilt a 1957 Olds trans a weird duck front and rear pumps to push start and 2 torque converters stacked But I had the manual ran great.
I just did my first 4r100... It's soooo different from a torqueflite!!! I was petrified when I found out there were loose check balls in there LOL!!! Had to whip up a couple new widgets, and found a few hard parts that needed replaced,but got through it ok....
Use paper towels while cleaning and assembling trans. Cloth towels have fibers that won’t dissolve. Paper towels will.
I have an A-999 that I likely will have to rip apart before long. It operates pretty well but it never wanted to downshift right while at highway speeds. When I first got the car years ago I was trying to peddle to the metal it up. Very steep hill and something made a very loud POP and bang near the driver's side of the floor board. From what I remember things with the kickdown happened after that. Also progressively getting worse is a loud squak-sqweal noise when I start the engine cold. I believe it is a bushing in the front pump. It started just doing it when the car sat for weeks and the temperature outside was cold. But if started in neutral it didn't do it. Then it started doing it when started in neutral as well even in the summer. And now it does it no matter what and quite loudly. And then even for a few minutes after starting if you rev the engine. So I know it's going bad.
Good Call Tony!
Just air check every clutch drum, make sure the pump body’s are good, triple check valve body gaskets if applicable, and throw a new set of pump gears in there if the body isn’t worn. To be extra safe vacuum check the main parts of the valve body. It’s super simple to make a vacuum tester and if you don’t have a pump you could, in a pinch, use manifold vacuum from an engine. Sonnax has a good page showing what your readings should be and where to test at. Sui Automotive has a good video on how to build a vacuum tester. These 727 are one of the simplest transmissions to take apart and easiest to rebuild. Not a whole lot of year model changes like in all the modern electronically controlled units. Sonnax also has diagrams showing where the feed orifice holes are in the plate if you want to for go a engineered shift kit. Also a couple turns counterclockwise on the PR spring definitely helps out. Don’t let line pressure get above 200. Also for clutch clearances you can use different thickness steels from the direct clutch and also there is different thickness clutches and backing plates. In a pinch you could also shave the clutch off on one side and stick to clutches together ect. Anytime you modify something like that watch for interference sometimes it’s not obvious and only will happen if a clutch is applied or when the gear train moves back and forth in the case. Good luck if you have a question I would gladly answer it.
I've rebuilt several transmissions over the years. To make things easier, find an old table and drill a big hole in it, enough to get the output shaft through so you can stand it up tail down for easier assembly, as well as things like the rear clutch. It doesn't need to pretty, just 2 sawhorses and a piece of plywood is way better than having to grow an extra hand to assemble things correctly.
If they're cheap (
The guy who taught me how on my 727 used a metal foldin chair. I made a workbench from my daughter's loft bed and left 1 side without a cover fer the same reason
I’ve always used Vaseline while installing the lip seals. Smear it on the lip seal and the drum, where the seal is going into.
Toque Flight transmissions are the easiest automatic transmissions to rebuild, there is 1/3 less parts than others.
For decades the B&M trans kit was a right of passage. Rebuild kit that also provided crisp quick shifts.
Usually the kits have different thickness clutches for the 2 drums but they are similar otherwise. I've interchanged them to achieve satisfactory clearances in this situation.
So what happens when you leave this a bit on the loose side?
@@MrZdvy You won't get as long term of use /wear before you get slippage.
that star wars dude picks up on things very fast, hes got the stuff
Good call on the tolerance UTG 👍....
I’ve rebuilt a manual transmission a time or two, but automatic transmissions are like voodoo science to me….I think even transmission shops feel the same, since half the time, they fail after rebuilding them. Great video UTG!
Perhaps this is fortunate for us to know what to do when we have the same issue.
love this giving me courage to try it myself
It's in spec... The book says it's okay... But we're not happy. Yeah, that's most things I work on!
Automatic transmissions are Voodoo and Hokum.
8:35
there's a lot you can do for something you've never dealt with before.
Cardboard is a big help ,draw a picture of the item on it and cut bolt holes and stick them in as you remove them one by one.
Or use the part itself.
For example,you could stick all of the pan bolts back in the holes in the pan.
Stick the bolts back thru the front pump housing.
Use a few different colors to mark bolts ,and around the area they go into if they are different lengths like old Ford water pumps.
Have a big area for the teardown , remove one piece at a time and restack the parts back together on the floor.
Tape and bailing wire is helpful to secure an item into something that you don't want to take apart yet, like a governor assembly for a trans ,or you want to hold your accessory brackets together with your cobbed up shims for belt alignment in the right places 😁
I generally do this at work , because a few minutes now helps reassembly go so much quicker. And the more you do that job and get confident at it ,then you can start to take away your "crutches" as you see fit.
aren't the wavy plates to soften engagement for old people?
From my experience, with something this complex, and if it were my first time doing it, I wouldn’t throw away any gasket without carefully matching it to what was in the rebuild kit. But even this plan isn’t fool proof, as I later found a previous person had used the wrong gasket, so I repeated his mistake. If it’s a fits all rebuild kit with extra gaskets, look very carefully.
REAL SPECIAL CLEANLINESS ,AND INSPECT ALL SEALING RINGS AND SURFACES FOR WEAR.
Love the video, waiting on part 2.
Best first transmission to try to rebuild .
It looked like Josh set the wavy ring down with the side facing away from him down, where everything else was set down as if it was falling out of the pack towards him... I don't know if that would make a difference, but I know about as much about automatics as he does.
Great vid!!
Hey tony, dumb related question. What's your opinion on flushing and cleaning a torque converter for a 727? Possible, dumb or otherwise? doing a 318 to 360 swap and was thinking about just trading converters but Id rather get a better start if possible without buying a new one if possible.
Good call Uncle Tony! Your on the wrong end of the clearance the way it is now. No wonder why it was leaking and slipping.
This is very much in the FWIW category, because I am merely a viewer of lots of repair videos. This transmission has apparently NOT self machined bits of metal from its parts, contaminating every other part in the r transmission. From such a tranny you would not want to immediately go into reassembly of sub assembly mode, as you have in this video. Furthermore, I understand it is extremely difficult to get rid of such contamination in a home repair environment, so be careful there. And you might want to leave those seals in place until such time as the cleaned part is being reassembled. Some seals are the same size, but are really shaped differently. You need to be sure you have the correct seal for that part. I love this sort of thing and I thank you for presenting it. I think I want to get a core just to diddle with it for myself!
This was an intact, functioning transmission that Josh just wanted to freshen up. No debris to chase around and clean up
50 thou is good, because what are you mesuring is the travel of the piston, and the piston easily can travel 100 thou. Check transgo instructions
What fluid are you running in the Mopars Tony?
If you like to tinker, you got it made.
Atsco makes a good book for transmission rebuilds
You do this stuff in the time it takes me to button my shirt.
can you get a parts list to replace and upgrade a torque flight 727 36rh and or 37rh 727 tf-8 it is in my old 1980 Maserati Quattroporte III that came with a torque flight And I want to make it better for upgrades: 'improvement' kits, specifically the Transgo SK-TF or the TF-1 enhancements (slightly crisper shifting, additional downshift control). Good clutches and bands make a big difference. I would get a better kick-down lever too. The stock transmission have a 2.8 to 1 lever. If i can get a 3.2, 4.2 or even a 5.0 lever it will really firm up the 1/2 shift.
If you don’t have a slide hammer to remove the pump, put spacers in the holes that are threaded in the pump and thread a bolt in there to press the pump out.
Has worked great for me, even on rusted up crap.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone do this so maybe there’s a reason not to?
Do the same thing. I grab the ball bearing out of my 2.4l crank pulley tool and use it as a spacer...👍
Things always go together better with Pabst Blue Ribbon. Send it!
Are the plastic ones nylon?
Nylon has very low friction so maybe has a practical function there?
Glad to see you guys didn’t just send it.
Zip zip, He's zipping the modern way
Are small block and big block 727 rebuild kits the same?
use a 5:1 kick down lever or the highest ratio lever available to you
This is the Chrysler turbo encabulator if you aren't familiar
Love the stainless steel meat table Tony👌recycled from a failed vegan restaurant
Is this the same Torqueflite I'd find in a 61? 3-speed?
I learned basic disassembly of automatics, can't say I've done any field work on automatics
Will it get the Trans Go shift improver kit? Love the logo guy with a flat top haircut and eye glasses saying "Trans Go no Yo Yo."
That was a great video! Not a tutorial like you said but great information none the less. Thanks for doing this!
Sometimes you have enough clearance to add another clutch and steel
can you add extra steels/ friction discs to beef up the capability?
Yes you can, you get another of that last plate that that was layed on the table at 10:28 and machine enough of that lump off, so you can use it as the clutch pack retainer plate in the front drum. You can reuse one of the steels and clutch discs and this allows for an additional disc for 3rd and reverse gears.
Remember that when you reinstall snap rings to have the sharp edge against the (load) side of what ever your installing it into. When you look closely at a snap ring, you will see that one edge has a slight curve to it. This is because they are stamped out of a piece of steel.
I will always check the big bushing inside the front pump that supports the torque converter snout, don't ask me how or why I always do this....
Steve Morris client injured by dyno engine explosion.
The man is a well of.Noledge that just keeps giving. I appreciate uncle Tony's time !! I have learned so much from this man.Just wish he liked playing with 4×4 's
Finialy found tony doing some work. Hurray
PlanZ!!