This trick is great. Uses a flex scale as a tangent indicator. We tested a bunch of years ago with a bunch of people and they all easily saw a 1/2 deg off of 90deg. So would guess, even easier for level. 1/2 deg on a 2 inch dia rod is only 0.008 inch off. Sure beats eyeballing center. I snapped a couple of bits that way. I also liked him showing the dail gage method.
What a cool trick! Thanks! I remember working on my old 78 Ford pickup and I told my Cuban buddy that I was going to set the timing on my truck but I didn’t have a timing light. He said “No worry, do you have a glass of water?” I loosened the distributor and he put a glass of water on top of the engine and watched the ripples on the water smooth out while I turned it back and forth and when the water was in the smooth no ripple sweet spot I locked her down! Couldn’t tell the diff from when I put a light on it eventually. He said that’s how they set the timing on their car in Cuba when he was a kid!
We left Cuba before I was old enough to work on stuff, but have heard many stories from my dad and others. Rebuilding headlights, spark plugs, shocks, etc. Mounting 15" tires on 14" wheels, running gas engines on diesel fuel and kerosene... Motor oil could only be purchased for topping off by a gas station attendant, oil changes weren't permitted. But if you showed up empty they'd fill it, an oil change required planning and commitment.
I worked for almost 50 years in a machine shop and hadn't seen this exact technique, but did find it interesting. I find it a little bothersome that so many dismiss it for their method. I learned a long time ago that whatever works for you is generally the best. One size doesn't fit all. I also learned to listen to beginners ideas since some time they look at things in a simple view and ask why don't you do it this other way. Many times I asked myself, yeah why don't I.
Been a Machinist 43yrs, haven't seen that one before, you can never know it all as a Machinist. One thing most Machinists have in common is " Thinking outside the Box ". Any negative comments here are not from Real Machinists, but from children who think they know but not..
@@BlackAdder1970 I can't use your method with my cheap drill press. Only a trained machinist would know to zero the stationary edge after clamping the fixture down square. This is a great video for non cnc or non mill people.. I wish I had a cnc machine shop.
Good one sir. Never understand why vids like this get 'dislikes' when you have unselfishly taken the time to share useful knowledge. Trolls I guess, inadequate semi-sentient beings, don't let them put you off. Thanks.
I usually keep the back lip edge of the vise as my y-axis zero. Then, I can just measure the diameter of a rod and move the table half the distance. Works every time! Cheers!
Wonder what's the best way if you're working with an A axis and don't have a probe, edge finders in class will work fine up to a certain diameter. Maybe a long machinists square?
Ive been a machinist since 1968. I have used this trick thousands of times. it will always get you real close. If you need to be closer then it saves time by getting you real close to center and thus save dialing time
I did my time as a tool maker back in the early 70's, but gave it all up as the money was rubbish in those days, and so became a builder. Now in my 70's, I have aquired a small old metal lathe and milling machine, with all the tools I could wish for, and I have not got a clue how to use them. It's true what they say, use it or loose it. Now i'm getting tips from you tube to get by. Thanks for the vid, very helpful.
I learned that as a Navy Machinist in 1994 in "A" school. I'm in tech school now for CNC and I blow the instructors away with tricks like this. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time left on earth to learn CNC (I realize now), and all my conventional training is only good for my own hobby shop (as if I had the money to make one). It's a good trick, especially for setting your tool height on a lathe (do it the same way, but vertically plumb). Thanks for the reminiscing, good tricks, and reminding me how useless I am.
Clem, One is Never useless unless you sit in a chair all day and do Nothing (like the clowns I know ). Even if it's helping someone or talking with somebody and making their day less lonely or sharing your skill and knowledge with someone that would be less fortunate without it. Some creatures masquerading as people are truly useless. You, sir could not be, even with directions and videos ! AND, Thank you for your Service.
Thanks for your Service! I was a machinist and a welder before I joined the Navy. I went the 6 month IC A school in San Diego. I was forced to take the anthrax vaccine for the 1st Gulf War which has left me a 100% service connected permanently disabled... I feel for you! The first pain medications I had to take after I was hurt made me so I could not learn anything after I was involuntary medically separated from the Navy... I truly do feel for you my brother! Hang tight! Your not completely useless! Trust me when I say I have felt like that more than once since I was hurt but I kept going! You can do almost anything you set your mind to doing!
Very nice video! No obnoxious, loud music, clear shots and good description of a technique I can surely use. This is how to make an instructional video. Thanks.
I’m a woodworker and have been using this method for over 20 years on my drill press when I have to drill wooden dowels. It works easily with large diameter dowels (or metal pipe/rods) but a little more time is required for smaller diameter pieces. Great job explaining to everyone.
Neat tip , I have been doing it on my lathe with a business card. Same theory shown to me by an old machinist, didn’t think about applying it to my mill. Don’t understand the people with the negative comments, not all of us have DRO’s or unlimited budgets and appreciate these kind of tips. There is always more than “one way to skin a cat”. Thanks again !
This method is quick and approximate, which is how AD pitches it. I cannot for the life of me understand why people feel the need to say "I don't do it like that". Do they pee sitting down, because "it's more accurate, and that's what toilet seats are for"? Peeing sitting down is a great option, but it's not the only option.
I have always used a 6" scale on my lathe...but that doesn't require quite the same precision as finding center on a mill..for which I also use an edge finder...
This might give away my nationality but. When your in the bush hundreds or thousands of miles away from anything you use what you have. Its called initiative. Im an old machinist, today's tradies especially mechanics make me cry whilst laughing when they are at a loss because they cannot buy a basic part off the shelf. Some of the best tricks are the simplest. Eye balling the rule with the known flat surface of the vice is were you get your reference from. If you use a parallel bar instead of a rule, the bar is always straight plus less movement of the vice is amplified. I have used a highly accurate machinists bubble level pining the point on one end over the bar. Simply get the bubble level. If you have a level like that no excuse to not have your machine level to start with.
This is the way I was taught in school nearly 15 years ago, find the vertical then drop the toolholder a quarter of a turn under centreline, thought it was basic stuff. Thread-cutting on the other hand is a nightmare for me.
@@adam9674 oh shit, basic lathe question: cutting tool should be just below centerline and not AT centerline??? oh man guess I've been adjusting my tool holders wrong!
Yes, learned that almost 50 years ago in high school. Simplest is most frequently best. To come within .001" by eyeball with a scale [ruler] in this manner is not unusual. Plenty good for cutting an ordinary key way for a pulley or such, especially considering a rolled shaft such as displayed is lucky to be round to a thou. Great little video! Jogged my memory.
Nice, quick and easy. Very useful trick. Some people here, it seems, do not understand engineering. They do not understand the idea of "successive approximation." They do not understand that doing it this way first saves a lot of time and fiddling by getting a quick approximation then refining it. Others appear to have more money than sense and don't appreciate that some people can't afford the latest, greatest, *most expensive* kit. Some people, eh?
approximate isn't something a machinist ever says. Depending on the GD&T of the drawing doing it like this will result in scrap! Tolerance is the word a machinist says when something doesn't have to be perfect
@@highstreetkillers4377 ...How fucking perceptive of you that engineers aren't machinists! Here's another dandy from the this troll... "they got no clue." Grade 7 English and grammar hard on you?
Used this trick for years to set the lathe tool height, never tried it for this! One idea I had while watching you trying to level the scale by eye - if you view from slightly lower, you can sight the scale parallel to the vise body. Amazing how close you can get with this. For putting in set screws and such, way close enough!
This is exactly the simple solution I need to shorten a rod in a hydraulic cylinder and re drill the hole for the pin. I am no machinist, I appreciate this approach. I do have a mill vise and a drill press and this will be plenty accurate for the farm tractor loader I am repairing. Thank you, and I am subscribing as a thank you.
I've been using this method for years, and it's an extremely accurate method for finding the center of the workpiece. I prefer to use a center drill in a collet to reduce runout to the absolute minimum; drill chucks (mine anyway!) usually won't center the drill as accurately as will the collet. On a slightly related note, if you find yourself having to drill a hole on the outside of a curved surface, and all you have is your trusty drill press, one of the best ways to avoid drill skate when starting the hole, is to take your favorite center punch and grind its point into three facets. The resulting "three-sided dimple" will center your drill bit beautifully every time. Excellent video!
I'm a semi-old school machinist, I started doing Bridgeport mill work out of high school in the early 1980s, just before the cncs started really taking over. I knew and used the scale trick, and used it from time to time. I learned under an old timer who went through his apprenticeship in the 1950s, a very knowledgeable guy. More typically I would edge find the hard jaw, zero, measure the diameter of the rod and dial to center using the DRO. That would get me within a thousandth and is quicker than using the dial indicator. I was in the trade for about 18 years.
@Jim Watson Used to show new guys how to setup a piece in an OD grinder to .001" TIR with a file jammed into a piece of wood. After that I'd hand them an indicator and tell them never to tell me it's too hard to get a piece setup to .0001 TIR. Would get requests to show them how to do a setup, but never got "that's impossible again". :-)
@Jim Watson One of my first experiences when I got into tool & die I was 19 years old. About 1 year into it I was sent to work in the gear room with the top guy in the shop. Man, I though I was hot shit back then. First thing he had me do was setup a piece between bench centers for the guys who were going to grind the external gear form. I had been pretty darn good at setting up at that point so when I had the front of the piece setup dead nuts true and the back running out .0001" I called him over. He looked at it and asked me if I knew what he meant by "true" because the back still ran out. Told me to give him a call when I got it right. Talk about being humbled! I went from smart-ass to dipshit in a heartbeat. Damn, I loved that guy. Learned so much from him over the next couple years.
@Jim Watson I know how to use a manual mill. But I also know how to use a cnc mill. CNC milling is the real test of skill, one reason is you actually have to know the correct speed and feed and your not just going by feel. lol. You got no feel on a cnc, so you gotta know what you're doing. No matter what job it is, I'll always choose the cnc over a manual mill. Had that argument with my grandpa and said okay, let's race. I had 2 parts done before he even had 1, and mine were nicer, chamfered, and dead accurate
Jim Watson absolutely agree. I’ve been machining for 17 years now and in my opinion it’s an absolute must to be able to use manual as well as CNC. I’ve run cnc’s for years and its still a pleasure to make stuff manually. No feel in cnc’s which in part makes them a bit more of a challenge in that way.
Fantastic idea. I am not a machinist but I do a lot of repair and custom work on small equipment and occasionally have to drill shafts to accept cotter pins. I hate that I have drilled holes off center and made a decent job look like trash, but now I know how to do it so that it looks good enough for the girls that I run with.
An unusual way of finding the center, and fairly close results can obviously be realized. While you recommend using a thin ruler, could you not also use a thicker piece of flat stock and apply a small dimple with a center punch? Seems to me that the precision-tipped tool would lock into this and keep the piece from sliding off. Your thoughts?
I used the same idea but on a lathe to put the cutting edge on or just below centerline. Machinist for 40 plus years,this is a great tip. Thank you for the video.I don't know what is up with negative people.
I'm an old machinist and I can think of about a dozen ways to center the spindle axis on a diameter. The one you demonstrate was the second I learned as an apprentice in the early '60's. 0.002" TIR? Pretty good for an eyeball method but accuracy degrades as the diameter increases since the tilt of the scale is an arc sine function of the centering error. Another source of error is eccentricity of the point. Few drill chucks center better than 0.003" TIR and without a max error mark on the chuck body your error may vary unless you follow up with a tram. If you use a center drill, be sure to align the crest of the chisel tip parallel to the diameter centerline. If crosswise, the chisel tip constrains the scale's tilt to zero over the tip's width. Try it to prove it to yourself. You'll be expected to conduct this centering evolution in less than 10 seconds on the production floor and you'd better have the Indicol right handy to follow-up if you want to avoid a bellow from your boss. Plenty good enough for set screws, through pins, and most keyseats, though.
I don't know what was with the math gibberish. You didn't say anything that really made any sense. The reason this method is less effective with a larger diameter is because the contact point is wider. That's it. lol
@@ryanfreeman125, what you mean to say is, you don't understand the technical aspects of machining, or the mathematical functions that describe shapes and motions, and so anyone speaking science goes over your head, so you ridicule them to cover your lack of understanding? Got it.
Forrest Addy, you made me realize how much of a hobbyist I am... It takes me a good 3 minutes to do this alignment and honestly I probably don't get closer than about 10 thousandths. Respect for your practiced speed, accuracy, and knowledge!
my very first machine shop boss taught me this when I was 19, I'm now 51 and I can actually remember the moment he showed me this trick. memories are a wonderful thing!
Thanks for sharing this old-school wisdom. It makes good sense once you explain it. But it's not obvious to beginners like myself. Very useful technique, and probably good enough for many applications.
"good enough" is something a machinist should never say. People setup just to put eyebolt holes, think good enough, when it's not straight on the machine. Because of that attitude they also didn't clamp the block properly. So of course it moves when they try and use a M48 tap. Now that hole is garbage, and no way to set it up the way it was. So they got to do it all over again in a different spot or have it filled with weld. Worse is the guys that try and hide their mistakes, wrong eyebolt hole on a 50 ton block is life threatening
Wow it ceases to amaze me how clever some people can be so simple so smart excellent video my mind is still boggling over what you just showed fantastic vid
I left school at 15 and started work as an apprentice tool and mould maker, I'm now 76 and still have my business working in my machine shop and like to say that you can never stop learning, this tip I shall use in future if I'm in a hurry and the job doesn't demand accuracy within tenth's of a thow.
Wow,that was really smart. Now do You have any advise on whether to unscrew the oil pan bolts clockwise or counter clockwise on a 82 Toyota pickup when below the equator? Thanks.
Thanks. Regarding the Toyota, I know how you can find out. Flush the toilet and note the spin direction. That is the direction you want to use. Screwing the bolts back in will be counter to what the toilet says. I discovered this trick while working on a Toyota Coriolis once in Tasmania.
and a lot of old guys that show you the wrong lazy way. Should always listen to advice, but think about it and make your own decision. I'd never do this and never have. There's a proper way to do it that I'd actually faster and actually accurate
It's a clever way to find the center. Sometimes negative comments can be helpful criticism. Most machinist I know have thick skin. When close tolerances are required this method is not good enough. I've been machining for close to 40 years. Good video.
Thank you. I have no intention of staying in a machine shop until retirement. I'd rather be beaten repeatedly with a club. I'm glad it worked out for you.
@@michaelbirchall2247 lol. Exact? Everything has a tolerance. Why would you need to be better than that? Because it's called out that way on the blueprint. I've made many parts with dimensions that have less than one thousandths of an inch tolerance. Usually aerospace parts but also medical.
@@michaelbirchall2247 usually any sort of driveshaft or rotating object. over time, that 2 thousanths of an inch of imbalance over 1.9 billion rotations per year (assuming 3600 rpm for a pump, lets say), you'll get a nonlinear failure curve. everything will be fine then one day you'll get strong weeble-wooble, and before you know it your bearings are shot, grease cooked, impeller's banged up., and that's to say nothing about the shaft to which you're coupled, hopefully it's a flexible coupling.
@@michaelbirchall2247 if the shaft going to spin having it dead nuts will help balance and keep vibration to a limit also have pride in your work keep everything you make in great demand
I was skimming through some old books on machine shop work (published before 1920) that had been digitized or scanned and I saw this technique described in one of them. I can't remember which one. A lot of the technology for machining has changed, some things quite a lot, but it's neat to see a very old technique passed along. Thanks.
Yes I still do it after 40yrs when I Single Point. as for a Mill buy an Edge Finder they are cheap or you can use a 1/4 dowel pin and a piece of Paper even cheaper
this is a good tip. I've been cutting off a small piece of the stock, then running a hole through it and laying it horizontal to the piece I'm working on to act as a guide. Since it's the same diameter, the hole runs center of the stock, and the holes you drill are centered to the stock. Learned that one from my gramps.
I learned this method as a first year Scientific Instrument Maker apprentice 54 years ago. It has been most useful in centering lathe tools. Essentially this method utilizes the fact that a tangent to a circle is at 90 degrees to the radius at the point of contact.
This is cool. I'm not a machinist by any stretch of imagination; however, I like to fabricate parts (or need to) from time to time. I inherited quite a few tools from my father, but he passed away when I was very young. Both grandfather and father were tool and die makers and mom was in industrial supply sales since the 60s. As I'm now a semi-retired (is that a thing?) software engineer who spent 20 yrs. writing code for industrial/mfg. controls, I've been around quite of few of the old school guys and am now learning proper/better techniques for machining parts. There's so much knowledge and many techniques that are beling lost to CNC. I don't want any digital stuff in my little shop. After spending 40yrs. doing 'high-tech', I'm much more interested in 'the old ways'. Thanks to "You Tube University" and people like you who take the time to make videos like this. Thanks for making and posting this, and I look forward to digging into your other content.
Apparently now 351+ people smarter then the rest of us, yet can't or don't care to share their ways with us poor dumb souls so I guess we'll stick to this method. Great video! Thanks for this!
Well if you would attach a dial with the center in the middle of your spindle axis you could get a better result. (1 micron dial). I don't dislike this video tho because you might not have a ready to use setup in the shop and making one takes way longer then doing this if you need it only occasionally. Prety sure its faster then doing this. But you need a dial in a toolholder permanently fixed to beat the speed.
Cool little trick Arnold. I am a retired Tool & Die maker, and it's obvious from your choice of words that you do this for a living. I have seen dozens upon dozens of 'tricks' to help out setting up a piece in lathes, mills, EDM, etc, but never saw that one. Love it. I won't be using it now since I'm retired, but it's still cool to see. Occasionally, I get calls from my old shop to help with something and next time I'm in there I will pass this on. I know a guy in the milling department who will love to add it to his bag of tricks. You did a good job explaining the process.
I worked in the trade for 37 years, retired, then bought my own machinery and still work. I’ve enjoyed every day of it. I still learn from vedios like this.
Worked in tool and die for 43 years, owned a shop for the last 14 years, and retired last year. Still go in to the shop occasionally to grind or mill this or that and see the guys. I miss having 3 or 4 million dollars in equipment at my disposal by just walking out into the shop - now I have to drive 30 minutes Haha.. Still make Christmas presents for the office ladies every year from my latest hobby - woodworking. The thing that kept me interested in machining was, like this video, there is always something new to learn or improve on. Trained many people and every once in a while some new guy would tell me he wanted to be as good as me. My answer was always "No, son - I expect you to be better than me." Loved it when someone taught me a new twist on something I had been doing for years.
Nice tip, for those of us that have a garage drill press and were not making parts for the space shuttle, it would work just fine. Keep doing what your doing my friend, we backyard mechanics can use this information, the pros already have there precise methods so they may not approve. Out here in realville, we apricate the help.
I've heard about this other places. I've never seen someone check how close they were with an indicator before though. A thousandth is close enough for whatever I do.
Its really only useful for a lathe, where finding correct tool height without taking a series of cuts and making adjustments can be more time consuming (although still extremely easy). I can't really think of a situation you'd find yourself in where you'd have a mill, have stock, having tooling, and not have a better, faster and significantly more accurate way of finding center. If you don't have access to an indicator or some form of measurement tool from the spindle, you wouldn't know if the vise was running parallel with the table movement, and finding centerline would be worthless anyway, unless you were drilling a single hole.
Thanks, I’ve always been interested in learning different ways to accomplish machining tasks with manual equipment and have respect for the pioneers that figured things out “old school” before technology made life easier.
Instead of a metal straightedge. how about using your technique with a short torpedo level - it might make it easier to find top dead center. Just a thought.
Good point - thanks. I guess a small gunsmith level, which is magnetic, could be laid on the scale - wouldn't add thickness but would still minimize the fiddling - about $5-10 bucks.
What methods does this work better than lol? Other than eyeballing it with literally nothing else, this is the least accurate way of finding top dead center. Gage or dowel pin in the chuck / collet, sweeping with indicator, a $10 edge finder, zeroing the non moving jaw, all far more accurate and arguably faster.
I'm a Machinist in the Navy (19 yrs), I use this same technique for lathe work. It decreases the time for centering your cutter for turning work. You get the approximation and once you measure with the indicator...longest part is the set up. This works well. I had a supervisor from my 1st ship who taught me that.
Cool trick. I was taught how to centre (Canadian spelling) a tool bit on a lathe using the same technique. Use a steel rule between the tool bit and stock chucked up. When the rule was vertical, the bit was on centre. I never thought to use it to centre a spindle over round stock in a vice. Thanks for posting.
Thanks so much for posting this. My Grandad is a tool maker/designer and I've spent many years playing about with him in the garage, can't wait to show him this!
Wow. Lol!! That is definitely one of those Ah-Ha!!! tricks that is stupid simple and everyone should know it, but only masters know these little tips n tricks. Which is another lesson in respect your elders and when they talk you shut your trap and listen. Great little tip!!! Thank you!!!
I've used a similar method in the lathe for tool centre height for thirty something years. I thought everyone was taught this. Lock the tool in the post and sandwich a decently straight rule between the job and the tool point. If the rule is in the vertical plane it is very close to centre. Not criticising. Worth posti g. This is really useful also for approximating tailstock truth if it has been upset for taper turning. Gets the DTI VERY close indeed.
Home shopper here, great tip. Nothing I do requires accuracy greater than this tip will produce. I have used it on the lathe for finding center to set cutter but never gave it a thought how useful it would be on the mill. Thanks for taking the time to do the video.
Late to find this video, glad I did. What contraption are you using for your indicator to spin side to side? Would be interested in investing in one myself. Thanks, just starting out, be gentle on terminology! Great content.
Thanks. The indicator holder brand name is Indicol. They're a bit expensive, but so are most things in machining. I use mine all the time and they are definitely worth getting. You can get them on Amazon. amzn.to/3b90qOJ
One more memory from an old machinist. Years ago my son and I were doing a line boring job at a power plant. Needed a 3/8" hole drilled centerline in a boring bar. Maintenance foreman told us to take it to their machine shop. Foreman there gave it to a machinist to do. It took him an hour to line up with tri square framing square six inch scale tape measure and all kind of eyeballing. Even a machinist level. We were told to stand against the wall and don't interfere. I bet my son that when we tried to put the two shafts together with a 3/8" bolt they probably wouldn't line up. We couldn't just run a drill bit through both shafts. The other was already drilled to line up on a power head so we had to use a carbide burr and grind out the hole drilled by the Union scale payed machinist. He never tried your method at all! Should have.
Great idea Man. Thank You for sharing. Old School Guys knew their stuff . That pre-modern technology era had very good imaginations . Reliance on the computer between your ears is equivalent to an Athlete going to the Gym . The brain is a muscle, exercise it and it gets stronger. Thanks again for sharing.
When I first got my milling machine as a rank novice this was one of the first videos I watched being keen to try and fast track my skill base..... silly thing to say really as their is no replacement for years of experience on the tools or machines. Anyway, since then I have used this tip many times and I sometimes hit 2 thou, but more like 5. Bottom line, it was a great tip to pass on, I really appreciated it, I consider it good practice and it has helped make my time on the machine more enjoyable.....so, keep them coming, love the content of your videos
Arnold's Design how are you holding a large part? Using 2 v blocks or 123/246 blocks, edge find the outside of the fixed jaw side, set as zero, move to the other and edge find and divide in half, move to that number and rezero no need to compensate for the edge finder as this is self compensating, this only works on a dro, if your mill doesnt have one, get one its too slow to use the screw scales, and you can make errors easier, it is virtually a necessity to have a x and y dro on a mill. Indicators are a last resort because they take too much time. Or get a haimer, they are so fast and accurate to use they pay for themselves quickly.
You shouldn't need to get to the far edge if you can get the edge finder to the other side of the part with the quill locked. This way, you are on the same vertical line and should be at the same angle off of the center line.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
This trick is great. Uses a flex scale as a tangent indicator. We tested a bunch of years ago with a bunch of people and they all easily saw a 1/2 deg off of 90deg. So would guess, even easier for level. 1/2 deg on a 2 inch dia rod is only 0.008 inch off.
Sure beats eyeballing center. I snapped a couple of bits that way. I also liked him showing the dail gage method.
What a cool trick! Thanks! I remember working on my old 78 Ford pickup and I told my Cuban buddy that I was going to set the timing on my truck but I didn’t have a timing light. He said “No worry, do you have a glass of water?” I loosened the distributor and he put a glass of water on top of the engine and watched the ripples on the water smooth out while I turned it back and forth and when the water was in the smooth no ripple sweet spot I locked her down! Couldn’t tell the diff from when I put a light on it eventually. He said that’s how they set the timing on their car in Cuba when he was a kid!
👍👍Cubans can do everything with basically nothing.
That's really cool ! I'm going to try it this weekend. Thanks for sharing.
@@BojaneBugami I have a picture of one of the 3 Stooges, and it says" I've been doing so much with so little I can do anything with nothing ".
We left Cuba before I was old enough to work on stuff, but have heard many stories from my dad and others. Rebuilding headlights, spark plugs, shocks, etc. Mounting 15" tires on 14" wheels, running gas engines on diesel fuel and kerosene...
Motor oil could only be purchased for topping off by a gas station attendant, oil changes weren't permitted. But if you showed up empty they'd fill it, an oil change required planning and commitment.
Now that's an awesome trick. Love stories like that, nothing fancy just functional.
I worked for almost 50 years in a machine shop and hadn't seen this exact technique, but did find it interesting. I find it a little bothersome that so many dismiss it for their method. I learned a long time ago that whatever works for you is generally the best. One size doesn't fit all. I also learned to listen to beginners ideas since some time they look at things in a simple view and ask why don't you do it this other way. Many times I asked myself, yeah why don't I.
I never met a machinist with such a good attitude. The guys in my shop already knew everything there was to know.
Yes sir I agree 100% with you. 👍
Been a Machinist 43yrs, haven't seen that one before, you can never know it all as a Machinist. One thing most Machinists have in common is " Thinking outside the Box ". Any negative comments here are not from Real Machinists, but from children who think they know but not..
I agree.
Well spoken.
Cool. I just measure the diameter of the stock. Then I edge find the solid jaw and set zero. Then I move half the diameter to the center
same here!!! I'm going to run to work and show every one!
@@BlackAdder1970 I can't use your method with my cheap drill press. Only a trained machinist would know to zero the stationary edge after clamping the fixture down square. This is a great video for non cnc or non mill people.. I wish I had a cnc machine shop.
Good one sir. Never understand why vids like this get 'dislikes' when you have unselfishly taken the time to share useful knowledge. Trolls I guess, inadequate semi-sentient beings, don't let them put you off. Thanks.
I usually keep the back lip edge of the vise as my y-axis zero. Then, I can just measure the diameter of a rod and move the table half the distance. Works every time!
Cheers!
That's what I do...I always try to reset it to zero when done knowing the next time I'm ready to roll when I go to the machine..
thickness of the back jaw plus half the rod then set 0
Wonder what's the best way if you're working with an A axis and don't have a probe, edge finders in class will work fine up to a certain diameter. Maybe a long machinists square?
13Anomalous don’t A-axis’ have “home” position?
Tinkering Nerd, this is what a real machinist would always do.
Thank you young man In today’s world it’s refreshing to see young men interested in work.
Ive been a machinist since 1968. I have used this trick thousands of times. it will always get you real close. If you need to be closer then it saves time by getting you real close to center and thus save dialing time
Wow that's pretty awesome
I did my time as a tool maker back in the early 70's, but gave it all up as the money was rubbish in those days, and so became a builder. Now in my 70's,
I have aquired a small old metal lathe and milling machine, with all the tools I could wish for, and I have not got a clue how to use them. It's true what they say, use it or loose it. Now i'm getting tips from you tube to get by. Thanks for the vid, very helpful.
I learned that as a Navy Machinist in 1994 in "A" school. I'm in tech school now for CNC and I blow the instructors away with tricks like this. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time left on earth to learn CNC (I realize now), and all my conventional training is only good for my own hobby shop (as if I had the money to make one). It's a good trick, especially for setting your tool height on a lathe (do it the same way, but vertically plumb). Thanks for the reminiscing, good tricks, and reminding me how useless I am.
Clem, One is Never useless unless you sit in a chair all day and do Nothing (like the clowns I know ). Even if it's helping someone or talking with somebody and making their day less lonely or sharing your skill and knowledge with someone that would be less fortunate without it. Some creatures masquerading as people are truly useless. You, sir could not be, even with directions and videos ! AND, Thank you for your Service.
Starting to learn CNC after decades of traditional machining is actually not as bad as it seems. Some tasks become so simple you’ll be amazed.
Thanks for your Service! I was a machinist and a welder before I joined the Navy. I went the 6 month IC A school in San Diego. I was forced to take the anthrax vaccine for the 1st Gulf War which has left me a 100% service connected permanently disabled... I feel for you! The first pain medications I had to take after I was hurt made me so I could not learn anything after I was involuntary medically separated from the Navy...
I truly do feel for you my brother! Hang tight! Your not completely useless! Trust me when I say I have felt like that more than once since I was hurt but I kept going! You can do almost anything you set your mind to doing!
Hahaha. Me too buddy.
@@krdcd That was very well said. This world needs more people like you.
Very nice video! No obnoxious, loud music, clear shots and good description of a technique I can surely use. This is how to make an instructional video. Thanks.
Thanks for the new trick. I am almost 67 and I try to learn every day.
I’m a woodworker and have been using this method for over 20 years on my drill press when I have to drill wooden dowels. It works easily with large diameter dowels (or metal pipe/rods) but a little more time is required for smaller diameter pieces. Great job explaining to everyone.
Neat tip , I have been doing it on my lathe with a business card. Same theory shown to me by an old machinist, didn’t think about applying it to my mill. Don’t understand the people with the negative comments, not all of us have DRO’s or unlimited budgets and appreciate these kind of tips. There is always more than “one way to skin a cat”. Thanks again !
Thanks. I'm glad you found it helpful.
Mr C , so right . Especially when the shop edge finder pouch is empty.
This method is quick and approximate, which is how AD pitches it. I cannot for the life of me understand why people feel the need to say "I don't do it like that". Do they pee sitting down, because "it's more accurate, and that's what toilet seats are for"?
Peeing sitting down is a great option, but it's not the only option.
I have always used a 6" scale on my lathe...but that doesn't require quite the same precision as finding center on a mill..for which I also use an edge finder...
This might give away my nationality but.
When your in the bush hundreds or thousands of miles away from anything you use what you have.
Its called initiative. Im an old machinist, today's tradies especially mechanics make me cry whilst laughing when they are at a loss because they cannot buy a basic part off the shelf.
Some of the best tricks are the simplest.
Eye balling the rule with the known flat surface of the vice is were you get your reference from.
If you use a parallel bar instead of a rule, the bar is always straight plus less movement of the vice is amplified.
I have used a highly accurate machinists bubble level pining the point on one end over the bar.
Simply get the bubble level. If you have a level like that no excuse to not have your machine level to start with.
Toolmaker for 43 years. Old tricks like this is simple and does the trick
Thanks!
Also can be used when setting lathe tool centres.
Grind the teeth off an old hacksaw blade to make lathe tool shims and center finder scales/rules.
That’s the way I’ve always set my lathe tool just below center.
This is the way I was taught in school nearly 15 years ago, find the vertical then drop the toolholder a quarter of a turn under centreline, thought it was basic stuff. Thread-cutting on the other hand is a nightmare for me.
@@adam9674 oh shit, basic lathe question: cutting tool should be just below centerline and not AT centerline??? oh man guess I've been adjusting my tool holders wrong!
Yes, learned that almost 50 years ago in high school. Simplest is most frequently best. To come within .001" by eyeball with a scale [ruler] in this manner is not unusual. Plenty good for cutting an ordinary key way for a pulley or such, especially considering a rolled shaft such as displayed is lucky to be round to a thou. Great little video! Jogged my memory.
I stumbled onto this video because there’s nothing on TV and boy am I glad....pure old school genius!
Nice, quick and easy. Very useful trick.
Some people here, it seems, do not understand engineering. They do not understand the idea of "successive approximation." They do not understand that doing it this way first saves a lot of time and fiddling by getting a quick approximation then refining it. Others appear to have more money than sense and don't appreciate that some people can't afford the latest, greatest, *most expensive* kit.
Some people, eh?
Thank you. Well said.
approximate isn't something a machinist ever says. Depending on the GD&T of the drawing doing it like this will result in scrap! Tolerance is the word a machinist says when something doesn't have to be perfect
oh and engineers aren't machinists. they got no clue
Any particular reason or need you have for wanting people to know what you think about some people?
@@highstreetkillers4377 ...How fucking perceptive of you that engineers aren't machinists! Here's another dandy from the this troll... "they got no clue." Grade 7 English and grammar hard on you?
Nice demo, I used that technique yesterday to find center for a T-handle wrench
I just used your trick today making some parts
So i figured id say thanks for posting this
Saved me alot of messing around
I have seen this done on a lathe but never gave a thought to do it on a mill. Thank you for opening my eyes wider.
Glad you liked it.
Used this trick for years to set the lathe tool height, never tried it for this! One idea I had while watching you trying to level the scale by eye - if you view from slightly lower, you can sight the scale parallel to the vise body. Amazing how close you can get with this. For putting in set screws and such, way close enough!
This is exactly the simple solution I need to shorten a rod in a hydraulic cylinder and re drill the hole for the pin. I am no machinist, I appreciate this approach. I do have a mill vise and a drill press and this will be plenty accurate for the farm tractor loader I am repairing. Thank you, and I am subscribing as a thank you.
I've been using this method for years, and it's an extremely accurate method for finding the center of the workpiece. I prefer to use a center drill in a collet to reduce runout to the absolute minimum; drill chucks (mine anyway!) usually won't center the drill as accurately as will the collet.
On a slightly related note, if you find yourself having to drill a hole on the outside of a curved surface, and all you have is your trusty drill press, one of the best ways to avoid drill skate when starting the hole, is to take your favorite center punch and grind its point into three facets. The resulting "three-sided dimple" will center your drill bit beautifully every time.
Excellent video!
Thank you!
I love old school techniques. For the type of work I do, that’s close enough. Thank you.
I'm a semi-old school machinist, I started doing Bridgeport mill work out of high school in the early 1980s, just before the cncs started really taking over. I knew and used the scale trick, and used it from time to time. I learned under an old timer who went through his apprenticeship in the 1950s, a very knowledgeable guy. More typically I would edge find the hard jaw, zero, measure the diameter of the rod and dial to center using the DRO. That would get me within a thousandth and is quicker than using the dial indicator. I was in the trade for about 18 years.
@Jim Watson Used to show new guys how to setup a piece in an OD grinder to .001" TIR with a file jammed into a piece of wood. After that I'd hand them an indicator and tell them never to tell me it's too hard to get a piece setup to .0001 TIR. Would get requests to show them how to do a setup, but never got "that's impossible again". :-)
@Jim Watson One of my first experiences when I got into tool & die I was 19 years old. About 1 year into it I was sent to work in the gear room with the top guy in the shop. Man, I though I was hot shit back then. First thing he had me do was setup a piece between bench centers for the guys who were going to grind the external gear form. I had been pretty darn good at setting up at that point so when I had the front of the piece setup dead nuts true and the back running out .0001" I called him over. He looked at it and asked me if I knew what he meant by "true" because the back still ran out. Told me to give him a call when I got it right. Talk about being humbled! I went from smart-ass to dipshit in a heartbeat. Damn, I loved that guy. Learned so much from him over the next couple years.
@Jim Watson I know how to use a manual mill. But I also know how to use a cnc mill. CNC milling is the real test of skill, one reason is you actually have to know the correct speed and feed and your not just going by feel. lol. You got no feel on a cnc, so you gotta know what you're doing. No matter what job it is, I'll always choose the cnc over a manual mill. Had that argument with my grandpa and said okay, let's race. I had 2 parts done before he even had 1, and mine were nicer, chamfered, and dead accurate
Jim Watson lol nice
Jim Watson absolutely agree. I’ve been machining for 17 years now and in my opinion it’s an absolute must to be able to use manual as well as CNC. I’ve run cnc’s for years and its still a pleasure to make stuff manually. No feel in cnc’s which in part makes them a bit more of a challenge in that way.
Great help, it's troublesome when doing Gunsmithing on a new Rifle Barrel that needs holes drilled for front sights!
Good tip for us using just a basic drill press.
Thanks :)
Exactly.
Right, I am not making spaceships just working on lawnmowers. So this works for me. Thanks! 😊
Machinist for over 50 yrs. always used this method to set a tool bit on the lathe. Works well
Fantastic idea. I am not a machinist but I do a lot of repair and custom work on small equipment and occasionally have to drill shafts to accept cotter pins. I hate that I have drilled holes off center and made a decent job look like trash, but now I know how to do it so that it looks good enough for the girls that I run with.
Thanks!
An unusual way of finding the center, and fairly close results can obviously be realized. While you recommend using a thin ruler, could you not also use a thicker piece of flat stock and apply a small dimple with a center punch? Seems to me that the precision-tipped tool would lock into this and keep the piece from sliding off. Your thoughts?
Also, longer the ruler, more precise the indication.
I tried it with a 50ft. tape measure, but it was actually not very accurate....
Rule not a ruler .A king or queen is a ruler
@@tonywright8294 Fair point! Oh, shoot! I've messed up again! Just, not fair. Fair is where kids buy cotton candy.
@@tonywright8294 My elementary school shopping list would beg to differ.
@@jackfrost2146 you made me laugh out loud like an idiot! Hahahaha........
I used the same idea but on a lathe to put the cutting edge on or just below centerline. Machinist for 40 plus years,this is a great tip. Thank you for the video.I don't know what is up with negative people.
I'm an old machinist and I can think of about a dozen ways to center the spindle axis on a diameter. The one you demonstrate was the second I learned as an apprentice in the early '60's. 0.002" TIR? Pretty good for an eyeball method but accuracy degrades as the diameter increases since the tilt of the scale is an arc sine function of the centering error. Another source of error is eccentricity of the point. Few drill chucks center better than 0.003" TIR and without a max error mark on the chuck body your error may vary unless you follow up with a tram.
If you use a center drill, be sure to align the crest of the chisel tip parallel to the diameter centerline. If crosswise, the chisel tip constrains the scale's tilt to zero over the tip's width. Try it to prove it to yourself.
You'll be expected to conduct this centering evolution in less than 10 seconds on the production floor and you'd better have the Indicol right handy to follow-up if you want to avoid a bellow from your boss.
Plenty good enough for set screws, through pins, and most keyseats, though.
Thanks for the comments. Good advice.
I don't know what was with the math gibberish. You didn't say anything that really made any sense. The reason this method is less effective with a larger diameter is because the contact point is wider. That's it. lol
@@ryanfreeman125, what you mean to say is, you don't understand the technical aspects of machining, or the mathematical functions that describe shapes and motions, and so anyone speaking science goes over your head, so you ridicule them to cover your lack of understanding?
Got it.
Forrest Addy, you made me realize how much of a hobbyist I am... It takes me a good 3 minutes to do this alignment and honestly I probably don't get closer than about 10 thousandths. Respect for your practiced speed, accuracy, and knowledge!
my very first machine shop boss taught me this when I was 19, I'm now 51 and I can actually remember the moment he showed me this trick. memories are a wonderful thing!
That's cool.
Thanks for sharing this old-school wisdom. It makes good sense once you explain it. But it's not obvious to beginners like myself. Very useful technique, and probably good enough for many applications.
Thank you for your comments :)
"good enough" is something a machinist should never say. People setup just to put eyebolt holes, think good enough, when it's not straight on the machine. Because of that attitude they also didn't clamp the block properly. So of course it moves when they try and use a M48 tap. Now that hole is garbage, and no way to set it up the way it was. So they got to do it all over again in a different spot or have it filled with weld. Worse is the guys that try and hide their mistakes, wrong eyebolt hole on a 50 ton block is life threatening
With all the regurgitated BS on youtube it was very refreshing to find a regular guy with a good trick. Thanks for sharing. +1 sub
I will be damned! I am drilling holes like this in 7/8" wooden dowel rods. I am trying this out today. Thank you sir.
Wow it ceases to amaze me how clever some people can be so simple so smart excellent video my mind is still boggling over what you just showed fantastic vid
Well that's a nice little trick. I've just upped my game from eyeball to 6" scale. Next step, in about a decade or so, I'll make it to dial guage.
I left school at 15 and started work as an apprentice tool and mould maker, I'm now 76 and still have my business working in my machine shop and like to say that you can never stop learning, this tip I shall use in future if I'm in a hurry and the job doesn't demand accuracy within tenth's of a thow.
It's true. You don't stop learning. I'm glad you liked the video.
Neat shortcut, I've used a scale when centering a tool on a lathe before. Somehow, that never transferred to my work on a mill. Nice video, thank you!
Wow,that was really smart. Now do You have any advise on whether to unscrew the oil pan bolts clockwise or counter clockwise on a 82 Toyota pickup when below the equator? Thanks.
Thanks. Regarding the Toyota, I know how you can find out. Flush the toilet and note the spin direction. That is the direction you want to use. Screwing the bolts back in will be counter to what the toilet says. I discovered this trick while working on a Toyota Coriolis once in Tasmania.
@@ArnoldsDesign And who says Machinists don't have a sense of humor!
There's a lot of old guys out there who can show people how to do things the easy way. I, myself learned how to weld cast iron from an old guy.
and a lot of old guys that show you the wrong lazy way. Should always listen to advice, but think about it and make your own decision. I'd never do this and never have. There's a proper way to do it that I'd actually faster and actually accurate
you don't weld cast iron you braze it
It's a clever way to find the center. Sometimes negative comments can be helpful criticism. Most machinist I know have thick skin. When close tolerances are required this method is not good enough. I've been machining for close to 40 years. Good video.
Thank you. I have no intention of staying in a machine shop until retirement. I'd rather be beaten repeatedly with a club. I'm glad it worked out for you.
For 99% the type of stuff I'm likely to be making, this would be close enough.
Just out of interest, (at the risk of sounding like I'm taking the piss, which I'm not) in what circumstances would it have to be exact?
True my friend 👍
@@michaelbirchall2247 lol. Exact? Everything has a tolerance. Why would you need to be better than that? Because it's called out that way on the blueprint. I've made many parts with dimensions that have less than one thousandths of an inch tolerance. Usually aerospace parts but also medical.
@@michaelbirchall2247 usually any sort of driveshaft or rotating object. over time, that 2 thousanths of an inch of imbalance over 1.9 billion rotations per year (assuming 3600 rpm for a pump, lets say), you'll get a nonlinear failure curve. everything will be fine then one day you'll get strong weeble-wooble, and before you know it your bearings are shot, grease cooked, impeller's banged up., and that's to say nothing about the shaft to which you're coupled, hopefully it's a flexible coupling.
@@michaelbirchall2247 if the shaft going to spin having it dead nuts will help balance and keep vibration to a limit also have pride in your work keep everything you make in great demand
I was skimming through some old books on machine shop work (published before 1920) that had been digitized or scanned and I saw this technique described in one of them. I can't remember which one. A lot of the technology for machining has changed, some things quite a lot, but it's neat to see a very old technique passed along. Thanks.
I've heard if you want a new idea, read an old book. Thanks for your comments.
This tip also works vertically on the lathe.
I'll have to try that.
Yes I still do it after 40yrs when I Single Point. as for a Mill buy an Edge Finder they are cheap or you can use a 1/4 dowel pin and a piece of Paper even cheaper
this is a good tip. I've been cutting off a small piece of the stock, then running a hole through it and laying it horizontal to the piece I'm working on to act as a guide. Since it's the same diameter, the hole runs center of the stock, and the holes you drill are centered to the stock. Learned that one from my gramps.
use this technique for a lathe tool, making the scale vertical.
That's what my instructor taught us at Tech school. This mill version wasn't taught to us, but it's pretty cool!
Agreed. I use it with a threading tool to find center on a lathe. Then I drop down a few thou depending on the part diameter.
I am a home shop "machinist" and use this technique often. For most of what I do, no further accuracy checks are required. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your comment
Looks like a physical representation of a derivative in calculus.
It very much is! Or rather, the derivative is the way math describes this sorts of things. It'd be a good example in a calculus textbook, actually.
Slope at maximum is zero.
Limits!
I learned this method as a first year Scientific Instrument Maker apprentice 54 years ago. It has been most useful in centering lathe tools. Essentially this method utilizes the fact that a tangent to a circle is at 90 degrees to the radius at the point of contact.
.001 that's pretty close for basically eyeballing it. Great tip.
But there is a huge difference between mm and inch! What unit is he using?
He said .001, and the old guys were that good. If someone is working within an inch that is blacksmith work.
This is cool. I'm not a machinist by any stretch of imagination; however, I like to fabricate parts (or need to) from time to time. I inherited quite a few tools from my father, but he passed away when I was very young. Both grandfather and father were tool and die makers and mom was in industrial supply sales since the 60s. As I'm now a semi-retired (is that a thing?) software engineer who spent 20 yrs. writing code for industrial/mfg. controls, I've been around quite of few of the old school guys and am now learning proper/better techniques for machining parts. There's so much knowledge and many techniques that are beling lost to CNC. I don't want any digital stuff in my little shop. After spending 40yrs. doing 'high-tech', I'm much more interested in 'the old ways'. Thanks to "You Tube University" and people like you who take the time to make videos like this. Thanks for making and posting this, and I look forward to digging into your other content.
Awesome tip. Been doing this work my entire career. I have not seen this one. I will use this tip tomorrow at work. Can't wait to try it.
OMG, it seems 241 people have a faster, cheaper, simpler way to do that !!
PD: could I see their videos showing it?
Apparently now 351+ people smarter then the rest of us, yet can't or don't care to share their ways with us poor dumb souls so I guess we'll stick to this method. Great video! Thanks for this!
@@jasona-EV Ignore the thumbs down. 10-year-olds and trolls will down-vote a good video just to agitate people. It doesn't mean anything.
Well if you would attach a dial with the center in the middle of your spindle axis you could get a better result. (1 micron dial). I don't dislike this video tho because you might not have a ready to use setup in the shop and making one takes way longer then doing this if you need it only occasionally.
Prety sure its faster then doing this. But you need a dial in a toolholder permanently fixed to beat the speed.
Cool little trick Arnold. I am a retired Tool & Die maker, and it's obvious from your choice of words that you do this for a living. I have seen dozens upon dozens of 'tricks' to help out setting up a piece in lathes, mills, EDM, etc, but never saw that one. Love it. I won't be using it now since I'm retired, but it's still cool to see. Occasionally, I get calls from my old shop to help with something and next time I'm in there I will pass this on. I know a guy in the milling department who will love to add it to his bag of tricks. You did a good job explaining the process.
Thank you. It's good to hear from someone in the trade. I've been stuck in machining/tool and die for 26 years now.
You have my sympathies. LOL. It's a great life if you don't weaken.
I worked in the trade for 37 years, retired, then bought my own machinery and still work. I’ve enjoyed every day of it. I still learn from vedios like this.
Worked in tool and die for 43 years, owned a shop for the last 14 years, and retired last year. Still go in to the shop occasionally to grind or mill this or that and see the guys. I miss having 3 or 4 million dollars in equipment at my disposal by just walking out into the shop - now I have to drive 30 minutes Haha.. Still make Christmas presents for the office ladies every year from my latest hobby - woodworking.
The thing that kept me interested in machining was, like this video, there is always something new to learn or improve on. Trained many people and every once in a while some new guy would tell me he wanted to be as good as me. My answer was always "No, son - I expect you to be better than me." Loved it when someone taught me a new twist on something I had been doing for years.
Excellent tip! Now if you can just remind me in 18 months when it comes up on a project.
Nice tip, for those of us that have a garage drill press and were not making parts for the space shuttle, it would work just fine. Keep doing what your doing my friend, we backyard mechanics can use this information, the pros already have there precise methods so they may not approve. Out here in realville, we apricate the help.
You're welcome.
Cool idea. As a wood worker, I see it being plenty accurate for wood projects as is.
Excellent tip...video's like this are the reason RUclips is just about the best invention ever for anyone with an enquiring mind.
That is an epic trick to use on a drill press.
This is what I learned on a lathe in machinist classes but I never thought about using it on a mill set up! Nice!
Thanks
love old school tricks like that very similar to getting your lathe on to the center line .
Thanks. I haven't tried it on the lathe yet, but makes perfect sense.
they probably were invented buy the same person :)
Thank you for sharing this useful method.
You're welcome
I've heard about this other places. I've never seen someone check how close they were with an indicator before though. A thousandth is close enough for whatever I do.
I have used this trick to center a lathe bit but not for a milling machine. Good trick.
Thanks :)
Nice demo. also used on the lathe for tool height.
Thanks!
Yup. Do that all the time. 👍
Yep... Do this all the time...
Its really only useful for a lathe, where finding correct tool height without taking a series of cuts and making adjustments can be more time consuming (although still extremely easy).
I can't really think of a situation you'd find yourself in where you'd have a mill, have stock, having tooling, and not have a better, faster and significantly more accurate way of finding center.
If you don't have access to an indicator or some form of measurement tool from the spindle, you wouldn't know if the vise was running parallel with the table movement, and finding centerline would be worthless anyway, unless you were drilling a single hole.
I've been in the sales sides of cutting tools for over 20 years. That was one of my old go to techniques. It just works.
The best tool for this is a steel ball bearing in the chuck. Guarantees center.
Sounds interesting. Thanks.
Tim Hallas please share
@@AtimatikArmy What is there to share. Use a ball bearing in the drill chuck to mark dead center.
@@timhallas4275 oh so basically just like using a tap or a drill bit or anything else I got you
@@AtimatikArmy No. Taps and drill bits do not have perfect centers. ball barrings do.
Good tip. I would like to see the rod in the vice checked for level as the first step
I forgot about that one, it is handy when dealing with round stock
Thanks, I’ve always been interested in learning different ways to accomplish machining tasks with manual equipment and have respect for the pioneers that figured things out “old school” before technology made life easier.
Yeah cool, same as finding centre on a lathe. I should have thought of that but I was trying to remember high school maths , thx mate
Instead of a metal straightedge. how about using your technique with a short torpedo level - it might make it easier to find top dead center. Just a thought.
The scale needs to be really thin, but you could use a scale with a level sitting on it. It would be really accurate.
Good point - thanks. I guess a small gunsmith level, which is magnetic, could be laid on the scale - wouldn't add thickness but would still minimize the fiddling - about $5-10 bucks.
Wow. 63 years old and I learned something new.
Bring the tool down to where it just touches the part, move the work back and forth . The scratch mark is center.
The scratch length on the round object should equal the dia of the mill tool, eyeball as close as you can bring them together and drill.
Same here.
An extremely valuable tip, very simply accomplished, but not something that I would have ever thought of in a million years. Thanks!
Old as the hills. But works better than most "methods". I did a video on this back in 2016. Same principle as finding lathe centre.
What methods does this work better than lol? Other than eyeballing it with literally nothing else, this is the least accurate way of finding top dead center.
Gage or dowel pin in the chuck / collet, sweeping with indicator, a $10 edge finder, zeroing the non moving jaw, all far more accurate and arguably faster.
Thanks for your comments. Just saw it. :)
I'm a Machinist in the Navy (19 yrs), I use this same technique for lathe work. It decreases the time for centering your cutter for turning work. You get the approximation and once you measure with the indicator...longest part is the set up. This works well. I had a supervisor from my 1st ship who taught me that.
Me too, but never thought of doing this on the mill......
Use a cheap scale or maybe a parallel...
For most work that is close enough, Great trick to save time.
Thanks
Cool trick. I was taught how to centre (Canadian spelling) a tool bit on a lathe using the same technique. Use a steel rule between the tool bit and stock chucked up. When the rule was vertical, the bit was on centre. I never thought to use it to centre a spindle over round stock in a vice. Thanks for posting.
Thanks 👍
Love these kinds of tips. Remember hearing this one years ago thanks for sharing. New sub
Thanks!
Thanks so much for posting this. My Grandad is a tool maker/designer and I've spent many years playing about with him in the garage, can't wait to show him this!
Thanks for your comment!
Wow. Lol!! That is definitely one of those Ah-Ha!!! tricks that is stupid simple and everyone should know it, but only masters know these little tips n tricks. Which is another lesson in respect your elders and when they talk you shut your trap and listen. Great little tip!!! Thank you!!!
I'm glad you found it informative. Thanks!
Arnold: this is great. I use this technique on lathes to center tools, but had not thought of doing this on the mill....Bravo....Paul in Florida
2:12 yes basically just eye ball acurate and fast.bad combo xD its faster and more acurate measure chuck edges and half it
I've used a similar method in the lathe for tool centre height for thirty something years. I thought everyone was taught this.
Lock the tool in the post and sandwich a decently straight rule between the job and the tool point. If the rule is in the vertical plane it is very close to centre.
Not criticising. Worth posti g. This is really useful also for approximating tailstock truth if it has been upset for taper turning. Gets the DTI VERY close indeed.
What RPM do you run that clock at?
I have the second hand setup to run at 1 rpm
Home shopper here, great tip. Nothing I do requires accuracy greater than this tip will produce. I have used it on the lathe for finding center to set cutter but never gave it a thought how useful it would be on the mill. Thanks for taking the time to do the video.
Thanks :)
Same here. Was shone this as an apprentice 54 years ago and never thought of using it in the mill.
An old grey haired fart showed me this on a lathe when I was young. Used it my whole life. That old German guy showed me a lot of tricks.
You use this in lathe as well?
@@MrJean9009 to get toolrest the right height when turning/facing
Look like a great trick for a drill press too when close enough is good enough.
@@MrJean9009 Yes sir. To set cutting tool on center or maybe a little above center.
Late to find this video, glad I did. What contraption are you using for your indicator to spin side to side? Would be interested in investing in one myself. Thanks, just starting out, be gentle on terminology! Great content.
Thanks. The indicator holder brand name is Indicol. They're a bit expensive, but so are most things in machining. I use mine all the time and they are definitely worth getting. You can get them on Amazon. amzn.to/3b90qOJ
I have only one word for this.. AWESOME! Many thanks
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.
One more memory from an old machinist. Years ago my son and I were doing a line boring job at a power plant. Needed a 3/8" hole drilled centerline in a boring bar. Maintenance foreman told us to take it to their machine shop. Foreman there gave it to a machinist to do. It took him an hour to line up with tri square framing square six inch scale tape measure and all kind of eyeballing. Even a machinist level. We were told to stand against the wall and don't interfere. I bet my son that when we tried to put the two shafts together with a 3/8" bolt they probably wouldn't line up. We couldn't just run a drill bit through both shafts. The other was already drilled to line up on a power head so we had to use a carbide burr and grind out the hole drilled by the Union scale payed machinist. He never tried your method at all! Should have.
So the same concept as putting a lathe tool on center
Great idea Man. Thank You for sharing.
Old School Guys knew their stuff . That pre-modern technology era had very good imaginations . Reliance on the computer between your ears is equivalent to an Athlete going to the Gym . The brain is a muscle, exercise it and it gets stronger.
Thanks again for sharing.
Cool tip, thanks. I'll be showing that to the 2 new guys. Love time saving tips that really work.
Thanks :)
When I first got my milling machine as a rank novice this was one of the first videos I watched being keen to try and fast track my skill base..... silly thing to say really as their is no replacement for years of experience on the tools or machines. Anyway, since then I have used this tip many times and I sometimes hit 2 thou, but more like 5. Bottom line, it was a great tip to pass on, I really appreciated it, I consider it good practice and it has helped make my time on the machine more enjoyable.....so, keep them coming, love the content of your videos
Thank you for your comments. I'm glad it has come in handy for you.
edge finder works fine for me ,inexpensive
MrKidkiller159 damn right
I can't use an edge finder on a large diameter part.
Arnold's Design , “ i set the paraller vise on cero with the edge finder before hold the piece “
Arnold's Design how are you holding a large part? Using 2 v blocks or 123/246 blocks, edge find the outside of the fixed jaw side, set as zero, move to the other and edge find and divide in half, move to that number and rezero no need to compensate for the edge finder as this is self compensating, this only works on a dro, if your mill doesnt have one, get one its too slow to use the screw scales, and you can make errors easier, it is virtually a necessity to have a x and y dro on a mill. Indicators are a last resort because they take too much time. Or get a haimer, they are so fast and accurate to use they pay for themselves quickly.
You shouldn't need to get to the far edge if you can get the edge finder to the other side of the part with the quill locked. This way, you are on the same vertical line and should be at the same angle off of the center line.
Brilliant idea. I tried this and was amazed how accurate it was. Brilliant. Thanks .