Start the turn like Henrik Kristoffersen
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2024
- A good start of the turn is fundamental for a solid turn, and here we discuss one of the aspects of a great beginning.
Thanks Henrik for the great Demo, check out his Instagram here: @h_kristoffersen
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When I try to do the same thing, it is about pulling the inside ski back while using the inside ankle to lead the turn. The hips need to work actively with this. This creates the transition and naturally extends the outside leg before it gets pressured. The inside ski carries the carve - even if it is not weighted - until the pressure builds on the new outside ski. The outside leg is relatively fixed and the amount of pressure on it is controlled by how the inside ski is lifted, angulated and pulled back.
Look at what the Swiss Instructor says at minute 3.13 (and so forth) of the following video taken from the last Interski (2019) at Pamporovo (Bulgary)
...like a Telemark way (pull back the inside, push forward the outside)
ruclips.net/video/qA8Cm2v4EIc/видео.html&ab_channel=NZSIASki
Totally correct my friend, I see it the same way, but I call it inclination when you say angulation of the inside foot/ankle (supination or inversion, also). When you start the turn you should focus on the inside foot-leg and go for the angles before looking for the max pressure so this will come naturally. Mastering the inside foot-leg is key.
Thanks for succinctly describing this. I have been working on the same thing, an feel the effect you describe. Now it makes more physical sense as well. Thanks.
I just happened across this. Yes, you guys have nailed it. The swiss national demo team are a great example of non wc skiers using this movement pattern in their turns, they refer to the sequence as tele-turns, which makes sense, but in this case the outside leg extension is a result of the inside foot leg action action as Juan says…not a push of the outside leg. You can initiate a Whitepass turn in the same way.
Three agree I disagree. Every turn ever started by a skater is done with the outside foot, unless they are figure skating. The across hill momentum that is also associated with this "Beginning of turn phase " has a huge impact on the coordination of tipping inside and outside skis. The motivation has to be outside tipping first and then coordinate inside femur relaxation to allow the inside ski to become part of the glorious arc your outside ski is about to create. Imagine you are jumping side to side across a tiny stream with nice jumping stones and landing spots. The landing is your natural foot response to balance and control and the exact effect you should have when a turn is initiated, you might have grassed the landing with your inside foot but the outside foot has to do most of the work, the inside foot is in a slave response mode to the strength of the outside.
Krisroffersen is practicing a few 'moves' that he will sequence more smoothly in linked turns. First you need to consider the requirement of parallel ski tracks through a turn. The inside ski is carving a tighter radius and must have more edge angle than the outside ski. With inclination, the feet/legs must come closer together, exactly by the cosine of inclination - 1 unit of separation at 0 degrees (vertical) becomes .7 units at 45 degrees and .5 units at 60 degrees - basic geometry. Hence the stance must be 'toe in' at the top of the turn with the inside ski more edged. Kristofferson is immediately adopting this stance instead of attempting to transition into it. The stance feels like turning the ball of your foot up (eversion) while pulling back and lifting the heel - note however that the 'pulling back' feeling is achieved by activating the hamstrings high at the hip, and glutes - Corso doi Sci calls it "leaning, light and sharp" because once the ski is actively carving, a positive forward pressure is maintained - not a "pulling back" - it is more a "pulling up" - see below). By adopting this stance, Kristoffersen has shortened his new inside leg, which naturally creates inclination in the top of the turn. By activating the hamstring of both the old inside ski which becomes the new outside ski (this 'move' leads directly to extending the new outside leg back and behind the COM to engage the front of the new outside ski) and the hamstring of the old outside ski becoming the new inside ski (immediately to a toe in everted position as described above), Kristoffersen goes forward over the little toe edge, but more as a motion to engage both skis slightly displaced outside the COM already in the new turn, rather than rolling over the little toe - hence it is not an issue if the skis wash the top of the turn as he demonstrates. From this position at the top of the turn, already engaging both skis with natural inclination from the toe in everted inside leg and extended outside leg, Kristofferson continues to lift the new inside ski, driving the inside knee to the snow, while maintaining positive pressure sufficient to carve the inside ski (can be a brushed carve). Essentially, the inside leg and ski becomes the steering mechanism that defines the turn - not the outside ski (which will however support a majority of the turning pressure). This controlled lifting of the inside ski also levels the hips, creates angulation, and pulls the outside hip around the turn. The mass of the inside leg, boot and ski are sufficient to accelerate the COM inside the turn and to the surface of the snow faster than the normal component of gravity (ie the maximum if we relied on falling into the turn), while simultaneously engaging the upper body 'counter'. This particular phase of the 'dance move' provides the skier with an internal muscular control of the turning forces and torques through the attack phase of the turn in the fall line. Instead of relying on the skis to turn themselves and the skier (which still happens in some GS turns), the skier creates a rapid and controlled pivoting of the lower body to arc the skis through the fall line, while simultaneously and quickly dropping their COM. This is more similar to Harold Harb's 'phantom move', but I don't see that Harb recognizes that there are two similar moves at two different phases ("getting up over the little toe" - which I attribute to Mikaels Shiffrin - and lifting the inside ski with an everted foot while maintaining ski performance - which I attribute to Corso di Sci). Yes the moves flow together (and the 'lifting' phase also creates counter, another part of the Harb turn), but I have always had difficulty replicating the phantom move as described by Harb, including his suggested exercises. The detailed descriptions by Corso di Sci Jam Sessions make more sense. Note that the above is not a complete description of the ski turn as being practiced by Kristoffersen (and every WC racer). There are additional nuances for feet, ankles, knees, hips and shoulders, arm position, vision and the use of the mass and musculature of the upper body including the head. Also, note that the use of the hamstrings provides forward pressure on the tongue of the boots, and allows for all the above to happen from a compact position, as is required to transition the COM from turn to turn keeping it close to the snow.
Can't figure out how to edit my response. Turning the foot inward pulling the ball of the foot up is inversion, not eversion. And it's Mikaela of course!
"With inclination, the feet/legs must come closer together, exactly by the cosine of inclination - 1 unit of separation at 0 degrees (vertical) becomes .7 units at 45 degrees and .5 units at 60 degrees - basic geometry."
WOW, i´ve never thought about skiing in this way but i makes a lot of sense!
You gotta try it - it will blow your mind. The 'javelin' drill of lifting the inside ski to the point that it crosses over the outside ski? Who the hell would want to do that in a race course? Or free skiing on steep pitches?
But if you don't commit to that magnitude of a 'dance move', it ain't going to happen for you.
Damn, I got a little dizzy trying to comprehend all that! I need to rest my brain now. Oh , if you want edit, hover the arrow in the upper right side of your post and three dots will appear- click on them.
@@hughgeiger9353 👏🏻 awesome information. Thanks. I agree with you and I teach that to my students who want to become ski instructors. They look to me funny when I say inversion or eversion. 👍
This is extremely competent analysis. Some people would say that at the start of the turn he is steering , which is a delicate art. You focus on the bottom, which is the result but the initiation has some streering on the top. The external shoulder ``covers'' the ski that you correctly indicate is moved forward.
Thank you!
How about the start of a turn is the motivation to tip a ski even a little bit and then we include other components to achieve the desired turn we want. Gravity and centrifugal force are a skiers best friend once you tip a ski. Otherwise I presume you are schussing everywhere
Hi. The new little toe edge tips downhill on the switch while flexing the anterior tibia. You must shorten the new leg by flexing the anterior tibia and tip the new and unweighted little toe. Finally he is recruiting the Psoas muscle of the new inside leg to maintain stability and power. The uphill or new outside ski can move from little toe edge to downhill or big toe edge and maintain arc. For fun and exploration play with flexing the ankle and shin while finding the tail of the outside ski before entering the fall line. Always counterbalance up the hill before entering the fall line. Very fun to ski this way.
So true, playing around with shin pressure is a game-changer!
@@beattheclock7509 Yes agreed. This is essential to rehearse forever to maintain the strong outside and inside hip when you move inside the skis to create higher edge angle. It is not easy to maintain the square position and very easy to twist and fold to increase inclination. I cannot maintain this position at full tilt and inclination but at slower speeds it is really cool.
A fantastic video!
What I see:
Slight hip rotation to the inside of the turn at the beginning of the apex. Resulting in a less round and sharp turn shape at the apex. This is most evident (in one turn) where the turn shape “flattens” after the apex.
Henrik’s inside hip alignment is slightly behind (B&I). The increased pressure to the ski tail causes the skis to converge near the apex of the turn. As he feels the pressure build through the apex, rather than aligning his hip and ankle, Henrik lifts the ski tail to relieve the pressure build and transfer all pressure to the outside ski through the remainder of the turn.
Since edge angle is mostly established by inclination, with very little angulation, slow speeds make balance between skis more precarious. In this case the position results in B&I hip rotation.
I'd like to take you skating most of what you are considering here is entirely based on a 1 km turn which can only be achieved with a little rotation ...used to call it anticipation nothing more. The most important aspect of these drills is relaxation nothing good happens from tension.
Campione anche nell'insegnare ! : A volte , parlare è superfluo.
Один из не многих! На столько красиво, технично и с такой легкостью!!!👍👍👍⛷🤙😎🖐
Thanks for your sharing the video!
Seemingly it's very important to have precisely defined neutral position in the course of making turns.
Yes that is very true.
Thanks for posting this video. And, thanks for you approach in sharing the video from a place of inquiry. It has led to an excellent, high level discussion with several great comments.
Thank you!!!
It looks like he’s moving the inside ski to be ahead of the outside ski as he finishes the turn, so he’s already prepared for the next turn. When he’s starting the new turn, you don’t see him move the skis because they’re already in position. All the prep work was done as he finished the previous turn, which makes a lot of sense.
Yes. Agreed. Deliberate essential movement skill prior to transition.
he dont hill moves inside ski ahead .
He is pulling the new inside foot back ...that is what creates the new outside ski lead...keeps your weight over your skis...out of backseat
He is practicing on a very moderate slope at slow speed the release from the old turn, the float when both skis are flatland the tipping the skis, beginning with his ankle on the lightened inside ski to begin the new turn where his weight is on the new outside ski.
Agree. If you don’t pull your inside foot back you start your new turn on your outside heal.
Yes. Agreed.
I've already noticed this Kristoffersen clip some weeks ago and I commented it with a ski instructor friend of mine
So is great that you pointed out this deliceous technical feature
Beautiful!
Thank you!
@@beattheclock7509 NB: at 1.32 min you say about the correct position of the hip: " which happens automatically if the new inside ski is ahead of the new outside ski..."
Maybe you meant the opposite?
@@matteoallegretti1663 Yea i did mean the opposite, sorry for the confusion.. the new outside ski should be ahead of the new inside ski.
@@matteoallegretti1663 Thank you for that. It was confusing as he said different things.
@@trouts4444 This is precious!
Look at what the Swiss Instructor says at minute 3.13 (and so forth) of the following video taken from the last Interski (2019) at Pamporovo (Bulgary)
...like a Telemark way (pull back the inside, push forward the outside)
ruclips.net/video/qA8Cm2v4EIc/видео.html&ab_channel=NZSIASki
You can see clearly he gets too far inside for the speed he is going. The slight wedge appears when his balance is not directed properly to the new turning ski on time. this turn shape drill (super slow motion) is very challenging. I like the demos it shows how much more refinement there can still be achieved in an already great skier.
perfect motion and balance.good!!!!
not perfect many adjustments needed but that is why this task works so well. Shiffrin does the same drill.... they all do. I love this task it sucks so much there are very few if any skiers who really have mastered it.
Pulling inside foot back from start to finish of turn... using tipping of feet and ankles to start his turn
I agree, the uphill ski doesn't advance by moving the uphill foot forward at the beginning. It advances by pulling the inside foot back while maintaining adequate counter so as not to have outside hip rotate.
@@Skedawg88 insaide ski being uphill advance self , shorter forward inside leg , narrow stance less , squere hips to outside ski in cross hill transition , inside hip pull back to stop inside ski advancing forward dumping upper body uphill unloading outside ski pressure to insaide , all folls uphill are in left turn , never in right turn , in right turn down hill , to move skis forward back using hips rotation not feet , left turn left hip back right ski forward , right turn right hip back left ski forward,
Its to be perfectly balanced as he initiates his turn.If you look at old footage of GS racers back in the 60s you will see an more pronounced set up before the turn
From my point of view he pulls the new outside foot forward to start the separation more easy and to feel the hip following the skis until it is square to the fall line at the apex of the turn. It is a quite interesting exercise not only for experts, because most skiers have probs to separate the lower body at the start and the end of the turn. This might help to start the turn upwards from the feet and get over the outside ski more easy. That‘s my interpretation…
You do NOT at any time "Think" of moving your uphill ski forward or back during a turn. The result of facing and leaning your upper body down the hill as you change your weight from your downhill arch to your uphill arch creates that movement, but you don't teach people how to ski by focusing on what it Looks Like. Even though, 99.99% of all instructors do just that. The uphill foot follows the positioning of the hip, not the other way around.
For Das and JB this moment of getting an outside ski ...outside your body I like to think of reaching with the toe of this new outside foot. The ball of my outside foot is my new destination and I want the ski fully tipped so I can use the ball of my foot to ride a great edge. I skate miles of circles for the same feeling Henrik gets. Complete body comfort while managing a lovely bit a physics.
@@AlpineMeisterHi und mit Bezug auf Deinen Namen in deutsch, weil einfacher 😅 Danke für Deine Antwort, die ich gerne noch (wenn auch „leicht“ verspätet) aufgreifen möchte: Ich habe noch mal einen anderen Fokus auf das Video erhalten. Mir wurde durch Skilehrerausbilder schon mehrfach geraten den Innenski im Kurvenwechsel zurückzuziehen, um stärker über den neuen Außenski nach vorn zu kommen statt zu früh nach Innen und in eine starke Schrittstellung zu fallen - und als Folge den Außenski rausdrücke. Ich habe über den Winter dran gearbeitet und bin zum Schluss gekommen, dass es vom Prinzip her zur Korrektur meines Fehlerbildes passt, aber es individuell für mich tatsächlich viel besser ist, den neuen AS vorzudrücken. Folge: sehr früher Druckaufbau und die Hüfte kommt dadurch nach vorne. Es ist nur eine kleine Initialisierung, bewirkt aber Wunder. Besonders effektiv ist die Bergstemme (und so sieht man es ja auch in einigen Trainingsvideos mit Henrik). Ich stelle den neuen Außenski so aus, dass die Skispitze im Pflug sofort vor der des Innenskis ist. Ich erzeuge ganz normal durch Schwerpunktverlagerung ABER vor allem durch frühes Vorbewegen des Knies über den Fuß und Spannungsaufbau im Sprunggelenk effektiv und früh Druck. Spannend, wie direkt der Ski dann reagiert. Dadurch stelle ich den Außenski noch direkter in Richtung Falllinie, was die Kurveneinfahrt vereinfacht. Aber übersetzt in parallele Skistellung gelingt die Kurveneinfahrt immer noch fast spielerisch.
Der Schrittwechsel findet auch bei Vorschieben des Außenski statt, aber eben später und mit viel mehr Hüftkontrolle. Das sieht man auch bei Henrik und ich denke, dass er das neben Druckaufbau auch genau deshalb so trainiert.
If you look at his tracks, you will notice the inside ski tracks are just as deep as the outside ski, indicating that there is close to equal pressure on both skis. You can also often see this in race courses. If you slide the outside ski forward, you will be pressuring the the back of the boot, which will make turn initiation difficult. I would say he is pulling his inside ski back, or more accurately, bending ankles forward and pressuring the boot tongue, which has the effect of pulling the ski back. But remember, I am just another internet dork trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about.
Yea thats the crucial part, pressuring the boot tongue..
Tracks are misleading don't tell us about continuity. You may at some point have a significant pressure on your inside ski but it is always there just to support the great job the outside foot is doing. It doesn't need to take any more pressure than the terrain demands.
Yes. Deliberate action of pulling new inside or (free foot) back before the edge switch.
Contrarily pressure / weight transfer must be early and complete for proper compaction satisfaction. Observations of inside ski pressure are incorrect the inside ski is only going along for the ride.
Phantom move ( Harald Harb )... I think
It actually seems to me that Harb thinks a little differently. Time ago I read his post (it seems to me on his forum) where he emphasized something different: it is not the outside ski that must go forward (as Kirstoffersen seems to do!) but it is the inside ski that must be pulled back (pull back) in the transition and at the beginning of the turn. Harb argued that if you focus on moving the outside ski forward you would end up backward at the start of the turn and this would be bad
Conversely, it seems that Swiss instructors and Giorgio Rocca (italian instructor and former Olimpic Champion) suggest what exactly Kristoffersen seems to do...like in a "telemark way"...push the outside forward and so the outside part of the hip (the new outside/old inside)
What do you think "Beat The Clock"?
@@matteoallegretti1663 I've been studying PMTS for quite some time, and yes, what you are stating here is correct.
@@matteoallegretti1663 If you pull you inside ski back the end result will look like you've moved you outside ski forward. At this level, there is probably some small advance of the outside ski at the end of the turn. However, I think what is perceived here as the outside ski advancing is the result of inside ski pull back.
The hip ‘push’ becomes more accentuated in steeps and bumps. This video is super-smooth, so the weight and force shifts are subtle and not that easily seen. Definitely dovetails with Harb.
Chicken and egg who shuffles first. Funny thing about delivering the new outside ski ...I never feel the back of my boot because my whole body is moving in the direction that I'm trying to plant this new outside ski. I like to think of reaching with my toe, the tipping and arch the new ski is about to experience is my primary objective the inside foot had better behave or it's going to ruin a good turn. This process of reaching with the toe of your boot produces maximum tipping of the ski. Any other presence on the ski means less tipping. 99 out of 100 skiers don't tip as well as they could.
in my opinion, this is the work of the lower leg in parallel. at continuation of the original video adds body rotation - second part. in the third fragment vertical work was added. sports turn is divided into three components
That not only makes no sense, but it also definitely doesn't teach anyone how to make it happen.
BTW thanks for posting these great videos.
You´re most welcome! Thank you for your engagement!
My opinion is that he clearly uses a steering action of the feet to begin the turn, because at that slow speed the FIS skies he has can not efficiently deform the shape to enter themselves in the turn, they need a feet steering action.
After that, he completes the turn with pressure given by lowering the body while performing ankles and hips perfect angulation.
At 2:43 infact the inside ski just didn't have enough deformation to enter the turn and was proceeding straight outwords against the outer ski, promptly corrected by Henrik before the skies crossed one tip over the other.
That's a very low speed for the FIS skies WC skiers use, an "average" skier can't even perform those turns with those skies at that slow speed.
He is square to his skis, i.e. lining up his hips and shoulders with his ski tips. That is my main observation. He is steering and I think just going slow and working on "feel". Basic parallel turns.
here in this video... and so many times good skiers do...inside hand sometimes touches the snow... why?
at 3:00 I noticed the inside ski pole leaves a strong mark in the snow.. maybe that is because it helps him with internal forces to mostly turn with his inside ski, that is my theory from old skiing.. freestyle..i know is contrary to opinion and teaching...
the outside ski leaves less pressure mark in the snow ...because it is occupied mostly in turning.
inside ski and leg are the engine.. outside ski is the wheel that turns..
the transfer of force and weight of those two poles is magical... no words can explain it, it is just like music, unspeakable... pure poetry..
this is art
ruclips.net/video/b-0vm3N-GoM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/ardYbiGuFSg/видео.html
The dirty underbelly of good skiing... the secret daddy/ special relativity.... keep it to yourself.
He’s practicing max pressure at the fall line
👏👏👏 great video!
По-моему, здесь весь фокус в выдвижении вперёд лыжи, которая будет в повороте внешей. Её следует загрузить в носке. Что-то от поворота "телемарк", но без утрировки. Гибкость лыж тоже, наверное, играет не последнюю роль. Пробовал это на склоне средней крутизны: работает!
The other trick is you have to fall downhill at the start of the turn and trust your skis will come around when on carving on edge. Or you can think of it as or releasing from resisting the centrifugal force at the end of a turn. If you let gravity do the work it can be almost effortless besides just pivoting your knees into the turn. That same idea works for carving snowboard turns. If you turn hard on a steep hill to check your speed with a skateboard you are forced to do that. Good skiers do it without really thinking about it.
It's quiete a simple ))) First he pull his inside ski, WITH ankle flexion )) for parallel his hips to new turn (or simply follow line). Then he focus on inside ski. It leading the outside ski and hole body. He lift inside tale (or just focus on this in left nurn ;) ) and point inside knee forward and outside.
This inside ski movements move weight forward and tips outside ski for new turn.
Read more about this at ski coach Harald Hub. He tectic is different from Henrik and another WC skier but his tip can help everyone. Thanks.
First of all, a lot was lost in translation but what I did pick up was completely backwards. Second, your reference of Harold Hard confirmed to me where you were coming from because of that completely ignorant way of looking at skiing.
@@JB91710 Hahh it's only your opinion ))) So, you say nothing about your ski vision )))
@@jimlabable You didn't see my "Ski Vision" on this page because he deleted it. That's what people do when they can't debate what they believe.
"Do you see how little he has move his body to allow his skis to make turns? 500 steps to being proficient? Really?
1. Become proficient at balancing on the arch of one foot as you traverse across a slope.
2. To start a turn, rotate your upper body and knees to face down the hill and get off your downhill foot and balance on the arch of your uphill foot. That, is what moves your Foot forward, not the other way around. You look down the hill, rotate your chest and pelvis down the hill, change your weight and rotate your knees down the hill. What all that Looks Like, is the end result of doing what I just said. You don't focus on the end results or you won't be where you need to be to make that happen.
3. To make a sharper turn or slow down, move your hip into the new turn to increase your leg angle which will put the ski on a steep angle which will allow it to bend more. Press your shins against the tongue of your boot to take weight off the tails of the skis and put it on the tips.
Okay, maybe there are only three things you need to be proficient in all types of skiing but it sounded better going from 500 to 5."
I think is practicing putting his weight on the inside edge of the inside ski (new outside ski) before the turn so he gets early pressure and quicker edge to edge turns
I'm guessing he is working on activating the muscles on the inside leg
It appears to me that his upper body and pelvis are exactly square to the skis when the skis go flat. And there is no ski lead when the skis are flat. Vertical ski separation and pelvic counter dictate ski lead. There is ski lead as he begins to pressure the old inside ski because the old inside leg is still short as there is still a fair amount of the old turn edge angle. Then as the skis flatten, the vertical ski separation and old inside ski lead disappear. I think he maybe working on being perfectly square to the skis at the moment of flat so as to apply zero upper body torque or turning impetus for cleanest turn initiation. Then his legs rotate as the skis roll up on edge and he skis into slight counter.
Very well written, and it's definitely possible that he is looking for being square in the transition.
@@beattheclock7509 Yes agreed. Square at the highest edge angle before counteracting on the release as well.
You are really wrong!! Even the voice on the video talks about a ski-lead of the new outside ski that creates a separation during the transition. And so you have no square at all at the transition. You can only have square at the apex of the turn!!
do you see him lifting the "old" downhill ski in the beginning of the turn? the helps initiating the turn early! cheers and thanx for sharing! jordan
Yess totally right!
@@beattheclock7509 I prefer to teach that you stand up on the new outside ski (a natural ‘walking’ movement); this makes the student less nervous at the start. Once that is comfortable, we get into edging (big toe side on outside ski, little toe side on inside ski, ankle flexing, hip angulation, etc.).
@@Osnosis i like to talk about a pedal movement similar to biking, which seems quite similar to your description.. I like it a lot since it s very simple!
@@beattheclock7509 agreed
@@Osnosis standing on the new outside ski caused a problem for me as it moved my body uphill rather than in the direction of the turn. A level IV CSIA instructor identified this and used an exercise which emphasized moving my body over the new inside ski towards the direction of the turn first before weighting the new outside ski. It is subtle, but I find unweighting the new inside ski after coming to neutral helps pressure the outside ski as opposed to standing on it.
1. Become proficient at balancing on the arch of one foot as you traverse across a slope.
2. To start a turn, rotate your upper body and knees to face down the hill and get off your downhill foot and balance on the arch of your uphill foot. That, is what moves your Foot forward, not the other way around. You look down the hill, rotate your chest and pelvis down the hill, change your weight and rotate your knees down the hill. What all that Looks Like, is the end result of doing what I just said. You don't focus on the end results or you won't be where you need to be to make that happen.
3. To make a sharper turn or slow down, move your hip into the new turn to increase your leg angle which will put the ski on a steep angle which will allow it to bend more. Press your shins against the tongue of your boot to take weight off the tails of the skis and put it on the tips.
Okay, maybe there are only three things you need to be proficient in all types of skiing!
Hi there, I don´t recall erasing your comments, could you remind me of what you were saying beforehand?
I only delete comments if they are either clearly spam or have nothing to do with skiing AND are just insulting myself.
Ok so with that out of the way, let me tell you what I mean by 500 components of the success Henrik has.
There are probably about 20 components that play into his success that just relate to genetics. I.e., high bone density, right balance between fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fiber, fast reaction time. Then there are personality traits coming into this. Industrousness, ability to defer gratification and so on. Then there is education, not only in sports but in general. Role models and people who guide him through difficult times. Doctors and Physiotherapists. Then there is the material aspect, the boot alone can have perhaps about 30 different kinds of parameters, then combine that with the binding and the plate. Then the edges of the skis, the shape of the snow-facing material (dont know what it is called), the way on top. Then you have technical aspects, if you want to go high level, perhaps 3 things are enough, but there are many details that make him a little faster or slower than the other top 10 guys.
The specific number is also not that important, it is more about the high complexity in general i was talking about.
@@beattheclock7509 Yes, I'm Old Skier. Looking through the comments below, I don't think you blocked my but you did delete one of my comments. With that said;
1. To be a successful teacher, you have to Keep It Simple. You have to put words into a student's brain that they can understand and especially when they are under stress.
2. You have to create analogies, thing that they are already familiar with that replicate the moves they need in skiing. That is crucial for memory.
3. You have to create a simple and easy to remember sequence of events that they just have to repeat every time they start a new turn or slow down and stop.
All the things you mentioned in your reply to me are not needed to explain skiing to a student. Some may be happening but are not needed to make a turn. The major problem in ski teaching world wide is that the teachers describe what skiing looks like instead of what to do to make it look like that. Harold Harb, who is referenced by one of your commentors, is one of the worst offenders with all that tipping and focus on the downhill leg and the start of the turn.
In this video you mentioned moving the uphill foot forward to make the pelvis rotate. The opposite is what is really happening. It is hard to see in his skiing because you can easily see he is forcing the uphill foot forward.
You can also see how he is over euphuizing the tipping of his knees into the turn to roll the skis over which in any but the best skiers in the world, will make a person fall onto their inside foot.
A truly Technically Correct skier Allows their skis to turn through the positioning of their upper body back in the fall line while their skis are still crossing the slope, as they change their weight from the downhill to uphill arch. Most instructors look at a TC skier and describe what parts of he body Look Like and call it teaching.
a. The uphill foot moves forward.
b. The lower leg is leaning over so "Tip your knees to the side to roll your skis over."
c. It looks and feels like the feet are turning so "Twist or steer your feet."
That's not teaching, that's describing. The student doesn't understand that, no matter what they say in the comment section, so all they can do is mimic what they see and you can't do that with skiing or golf.
Watch any good GS racer in slow motion and you can see everything I say. You ski from your eyes down, not from you feet up. The last thing that happens is the feet roll over, not the first.
@@JB91710 Generally, i fully agree with you that most of what ski instructors say is useless for athletes. And yes, an athlete won t profit from all the things that were said in this video, nor do they profit from a lot of what other RUclipsrs say.
The way i teach though is for the most part from my very own, personal feeling and not by stating the obvious movements that happen. It really helps me to think of pushing the outside ski forward and also pushing it into the snow. It may not be true for you, then i would say try something else that works.
@@beattheclock7509 The problem with pushing is, you may push the ski away or push yourself away from it. Both ways will put you on your inside ski. Standing on it and balancing is the key to a smooth turn. The increasing pressure you feel is the deceleration that builds up as your ski turns with you falling down the hill. It's not something you apply, it's just a result. The part that should be taught is the body positioning that causes it. It's like the feeling you have I your feet and ankles when the ski turns your feet. You don't teach turning your feet, you teach the body position that will allow your skis to turn your feet. The action of pressing down on your brake pedal in your car is a different pressure than the pressure you feel in your chest from the shoulder harness. The first you apply, the second is applied to you. The only thing a skier has to do regarding pressure under the foot is, monitor it during a turn to see if the ski is on the edge or flat of the ski. If there is a lot of pressure, the ski is gripping. If not, then it is sliding. Then you apply varying degrees of knee and hip adjustments to increase or decrease the amount of edge. Focus on how to create the feeling not just the feeling. I'm glad we talked.
@@JB91710 I see what you are saying, and again, I think it is important to go with whatever works for you.
For me, the thought of pushing and stepping on the outside ski makes me do the right thing. I know the danger of saying that, but for me it works regardless, and so it will for some other people.
His movements are very controlled and I wonder if he is playing with an early "hip hike" after intiating with his ankles and knees?
Not enough hip hike. Good call.
Yes. Agreed. Tip both skis to the downhill edges before the fall line. The new free foot is lighter and shorter. Tipping both skis to the downhill edges while shortening the new inside free foot is the essential. Staying square is easy when we shorten and soften the new inside leg. Skiers must tip both skis and reset the new little toe edge on the switch of edges or this does not work. Again, mastery of the turn is about mastery of the edge switch. Edge tip skills should be married to counterbalance skills. This is non-negotiable. This might not be apparent but he is counterbalancing uphill when he unweights the DH ski before tipping edges downhill.
Could you please explain what is "counterbalance"？
@@Halblooline Yes. Feet and ski edges are the skiing. Everything we do is to make the feet and ski work perfectly. Counterbalance means to use the upper body to angle and lean opposite from the direction we tip our ski edges. Tip edges to the right - balance to the left with body and lower left hand. You will not see it so much in upper level skiing because they are using their abdominal muscles to balance
@@Halblooline Look at 4:18. Once Henrik uses the ski down the hill he creates balance on tipped edges by lowering the outside hand so the pole tip scrapes the snow for a moment.
Maybe, practicing using his little toe pressure of the inside ski.
Anybody who references the inside ski other than to say, "Get off it to start the new turn." has no idea how to teach skiing.
Working on alignments
I am confused. At 1:17 of video, statement is that the new OUTSIDE ski is ahead (leading) to start the turn. Then at 1:30, statement is that new INSIDE ski is ahead to start the turn. My observation is that the new outside ski leads when first pressured because the foot to foot pressure change is prior to edge change. Seems like ski lead changes with the edge change.
Yess i made a mistake, at 1:30 i meant to say the new outside ski is ahead of the turn.
I think it is all about shin parallelism and hip placement
The parallelogram law applies only when differentially time dilated weight bearing structures are sufficiently stacked for action.
I don’t think he’s moving new outside ski forward. He’s pulling the new inside ski back by flexing the ankle. Initiating the turn with the new inside ski.
"The word is not the thing."
I also like to think of pulling the inside ski back but pushing the outside ski forward is really the same movement..
@@beattheclock7509 Ahh so the sound of one ski clapping
Good observation.
It's the same drill he just had to much weight on the inside so he had to recover
He is not puling the inside ski back, but puting the inside ski on its littlw toe edge. He is doing that by pushing his inside leg knee outside, thus shortening the inside leg, and falling into the turn. As a consequence of this action the outside ski comes on the edge, and his weight transfers to the outside ski. The lead change is wrong, and throws the skier out of balance.
No no not how he does it. It is about releasing the turn with both skis simultaneously. The way to achieve this is concentrated on the skis being on the flat and then release the turn by gently edging and slight pressure from the hip onto the skis into the new turn……
this is classic ski turn swiss teacher , swiss style
on toilet
hes rocking unbuckled boots. gotta have balance. Cant force good turns with stiff boots. Inside foot steering excellence. Railroad tracks last couple of turns..
Also... An early coaching mistake I made was about the outer ski being forward. Better to think about bringing the inside ski back and underneath is better. Think Telemark. You think about inside ski because outside ski is solid as a rock. That inside ski can carve anytime its needed as well.
Can you please Tell me what Kind of Radius of the Ski is Used? Is it a Slalom Ski With radius 11m?
I´m not sure but usually they use 165 cm with ~12m radius..
Short but I bet he could do almost the same thing with a longer ski maybe the skid would be a little more.
My guess is 165cm 12m.
Why when he is travelling a little slower is he looking down? I’m assuming at his level there is a very good reason
Good point, i also think there must be a reason i could only guess.. Maybe he looks at the Position of his skis, wideness of stance ect.
Think he' s looking down to align the tips of the skis, before initiating turn, before slightly pushing the new outside ski forward (with his hip, followed by shoulder). At slow speed it's easy not to start the next turn from the perfect, neutral position- much easier to drag your prior outside ski into the next turn, which can put your perfect line way off (too much pressure, too early, on the inside ski as seen at 2:43) if not corrected with a bit of practice. Having a perfect line is all about tiny preturn adjustments, it may not look much to an untrained eye, but it makes a world of a difference...
hi, you said he's pushing his to-be OL fwd to get the correct hip position (down the fall line). does it mean he applies no counter?
To me it seems in this exercise he doesn´t do anything with the upperbody, which doesn´t directly translate into racing.. The counter is imo done only at towards the end of the turn. The upperbody faces a little more downhill than the hips during the transition, this is perfectly in line with pushing the to-be OL foward and having the hip in place.
Sorry for the long answer but there is really easy way of answering ;)
@@beattheclock7509 so, here he only skis into the counter a little bit, as Triggerboy62 would call it
@@pawpass Yes i think you could say that.
@@beattheclock7509 After the weight transfer feet can turn towards the fallline creating counter.
He is shortening the transition between the turns.
too much pressure on the outside too early leaving the inner on edge without the weigh to deform it.
There is a contradiction when you talk about the movement of the skis in the first left hand turn.
I have never seen so much guesswork.
But wait. Psia pros (ha) would say "his hips are back and that is not correct." What. "You mean we ski pros dont know everything." Let me think 🤔 f no. You dont! Lol!
Cristiania exercise
You sincerely believe he is 90% on the new outside ski before he starts the turn? Uh....no. Note even close. This is a 50/50 turn initiation drill. You can clearly see this from his tracks. Heck, if anything, he has MORE weight on his inside ski! The times he lifts a ski are because he did not get the inside ski inclination correct, and they go out of parallel. He only gets more weight on the DH/outside ski well after the fall line....
As for his new outside ski being forward before the turn...well...yeah. That is impossible NOT to do when you are traversing across any significant slope. The inside ski is pushed up due to the incline. With a stiff boot, the motion moves to the hip joint, and the ski HAS TO move forward. This is not some special deliberate position he is adopting.
At low edge angles...say 0-20 degrees...there is ZERO advantage to be on one ski. The ski is going to bend the same arc no matter what at these very low angles. So more load (all the weight on one ski) has no advantage. In such a case, two skis are better than one. This is the reason we do RR track and Garland drills. The the point where the skis are flat till we get them tipped about 20 degrees...we want to be 50/50...even weight. As soon as the skis load, before the fall line, THEN we use hip tilt and inside leg shortening to stack over one ski. Start the turn on two skis, but do the real work on one...once load builds, preferably well before the fall line. We want to be full power at the fall line.
This specific drill is a harder version of a RR track drill. What happens when you do a "Big C" across the fall line? You go SLOWER. This makes it harder to initiate a turn. So you have to really exaggerate tipping angles...getting on edge FAST. Second, when you finish the turn, the fall line effect puts more weight on your outside ski. This in turn creates more of a challenge in transitioning your weight to the newer turn. This is the point of this drill. It adds weight distribution control to a RR track drill.....
In reality there are "THREE" transitions not one
Transition 1. Take the load off the old outside ski using pelvic bone tilt and loaded leg relaxation - go from 90/10 to 50/50, ideally.
Transition 2. Get the upper body over the new inside ski (or you can think of it as getting the inside ski under the upper body), and aggressively supinate the inside foot to get the turn started. The outside leg will follow the inside. If you are decisive and aggressive with inside leg tipping, you will get strong edge angle similarity. You are trying to go from flat skis (no turning forces) to loaded skis (noticeable, but moderate turning forces ) as QUICK as possible. Again, 50/50 distribution is ideal...two skis are better than one at low edge angles. Transition 2 is about getting "some" load into the skis from "none" (as the body CoM crosses over the flat skis)
Transition 3 (High edge angle race technique). Continue the inside knee drive (foot supination...leg lean) with pelvic bone tilt (MAX hip hike/leveling) to the point you take load OFF the inside ski. This is the mistake many people make. They PRESS on the outside ski. Wrong. You only have TWO skis. So to put all your weight on the outside ski, all you have to do is take weight OFF the inside ski. This will put you 90/10 on the new outside ski, stacked, strong and forward. Finish the turn.
In this drill, Henrik is doing 1 and 2 only. For a racer, 3 is easy when you nail 1 and 2.
j
A very nuanced analysis of a difficult part of the transition from edge to edge. Call up some slow motion video of Marcel Hisrcher at his prime and compare to Krisroffersen, the second best slalom skier in the world, . Sometimes it seems as if they are involved in an entirely different sport! Perfect example of maximizing the characteristics of your natural physique. One is feline, the other direct, tall and precise.
One thing I never see discussed is the dynamic relationship between pressure, edge angle, and the progression as the tern develops. Logically during the early stages of of the turn development gravity is not adding much force to the turn shape so edge angle is not called upon to resist its forces. You can utilize a flat ski or weighted inside ski momentarily as the transition is under way. Remember how Anna Fenninger/Veith used to dance/float through her turn transitions when she was WC champion? As the turn passes through the fall line and into more of a traverse the forces build up, more edge angle has to be utilized, and the skis bend and form a bow to launch you into the next turn energized by the force of the carve and muscular strength.
@@richardelder256 I like it. Skiing at this level is not about creating pressure, it's about creating angles, so the pressure builds as you do so, and it comes to you. If you try to pressure the ski through any form of pushing or extending, it's lost.
nonsensse he dont carve he set edges from flat skis in transition , insaide ski have more edge angle if you counter hips facing fall line , dumping inside hip uphill inside ski ahead uphill , inclanined upper body dumped uphill , his goal is to finish turn on down hill ski , start new turn on downhill ski flat direct line , he dont roll ankles he dont flex ankles to set edges , he rotete hips ankles to set edges , he dont transfer from down hill ski to uphill ski , he angulate upper body first down hill seperadet at waist lower fallow , outside ski ahead inside back anguladet , 100 percent falls world cup racers are in left turn insaide ski on edge ahead down hill back dumping inclained upper body uphill .
This skier is very obviously conducting a very specific task the likes of which we cannot know without getting this info from the skier. This analysis is completely useless without discovering the intent of the skier. So many useless videos like this on RUclips it is massively debilitating to those not capable of understanding this key point. Though, almost as soon as someone starts a channel m, they fall under the pressure ti keep posting material which is why we end up with useless ones like these. The Mai goal to operating a RUclips channel is to keep posting new material which is the reason why most of it in this space is of very poor quality if there is any quality at all. In this case, he is copying someone else’s video which should be your first hint.
Sorry but he's leaning and rotating.
Hi, are you the famous guy with the phantom move?
@@beattheclock7509 indeed
@@skiwhh oh great! and you are saying he is leaning and rotating in contrast to what i said?
@@beattheclock7509 Clearly he's not using much, if any, counter in these turns so yeah, he's leaning in but doing it deliberately. I don't see the skis pivoting though. I would guess he's trying to isolate a particular aspect or feeling and ignoring everything else.
@@philiplacey5430 What he is doing is "Keeping It Simple!!!" Skiing in it's most pure form. Moving the body as little as possible but yet allowing the skis to make the turns while just standing and balancing non the turning ski while it does what it is designed to do. Harold Harb would have no idea what I am talking about because all he does is focus on what parts of the body Look and Feel like, not HOW to make them look and feel like that. Notice wen asked a direct question from beat, he didn't respond. That's because he is a Two Dimensional Reactor, not a Three Dimensional Thinker. When thinking shows it's ugly head, Harb is nowhere to be found.