Knock Down Power! BS or a real thing?
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- Опубликовано: 13 ноя 2022
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We hear people talking about "knock down power" but what is it? Can a bullet really knock you back off your feet? We play around with the question by using Ballistic Bob.
#knockdown #power #shooting 
Развлечения
So what did we learn here? Out of handguns from 9mm to .500S&W magnum, only the .45acp out of a 1911 could knock down Bob. It not only pushed him back towards the backwards netherworld but then sucked him back into the forward netherworld. Proof positive that only the .45acp out of a 1911 is truly a mannequin stopper with real world knock down power. 😸
He fell forward as his soul was sucked out of his body
Replayed more slowly, you can see that the .45 caused the dummy to fly backwards around the planet before landing back in its original spot.
It basically won it's 3rd world war lolz
I’m surprised the atmosphere didn’t catch on fire
Mannequin stopper. 😄👍
During a CCW class I was teaching, I had a student announce to everyone; “the military used .45 because it’ll knock any enemy out of a fighting hole”… The next topic we covered was ballistics. Broke his heart.
To get someone out of a foxhole, you need to send them up, so he needs a round with some Knock Up power.
Knock Up power might have to be a different lesson for him, though.
The sad part is..even with all the facts and whatever...there will always be those "low IQ tards" who will still believe the KNOCKDOWN POWER.
Yes the real reason the military returned to a 45 cal load was because of the pathetic performance of 38 long Colt was a weak assed round when shooting moro tribes men.
@@botkill3635 We all know the story about that but...."Stopping power! Knock down power! Shoot them anywhere and it will stop them in their tracks!".
@@DallenRex my penis has a lot of knock up power. I am paying a lot of child support because of it.
One suggestion if you revisit this. Hang heavier steel like on a pendulum and have a camera on the side and then you can measure the angle it moves with each caliber. You know, for science.
Can't do that ,all the 9mm fan boyz would cry when it didn't even vibrate
@@j.robertsergertson4513
If that's the case, wait until he tests 5.7 🤷🤣
BuT thE tEcHnOloGy AdvAncEMenTs mAKe 9mm the best cartridge ever? (That only applies to 9mm??) lol
@@j.robertsergertson4513 I don't think 9mm fans, if that's really a meaningful category, would be bothered by its lack of impact energy because impact energy is essentially meaningless. This video and many other tests have proven that "knockdown power" is pure fiction. No round can hit harder than the recoil of the gun (yes obviously it would feel different on the receiving end) and even powerful rifles don't hit that hard. What "knocks" a person or animal down and kills them is tissue damage and blood pressure loss from permanent and temporary wounding channels. These are a function of velocity and bullet design almost exclusively. Bullet weight matters except in real life it's often paired with a loss of velocity so it isn't that drastic. Bullet diameter means nearly nothing. The wounding caused by 9mm and .45ACP can't even be reliably differentiated by trauma surgeons and high powered rifles are even harder to tell based on issue damage.
Saw that first hand. Used to hang 1/4" plate in trees for target shooting fun. Me and my cousin were shooting 9mm and 45's....put a dent in them and made a good ring.
My other cousin came out with his .454 casull and literally blew a hole through the plate. Not even kidding. This was plain cold rolled steel, non heat treated though.
I believe it was the late LTC Jeff Cooper that once explained the purpose of the handgun was to fight your way back to where you kept your shotgun.
That’s retrded. Either you’re going to use a handgun or a long gun. No one is using a handgun to fight their way to a rifle. Like you’re going to leave the mall shooting to go get a rifle. Or in your house you’d just grab the long gun to start with.
@@84kjk or you’re in your house with your carry gun and frangible ammo, but find you need to shoot through a wall at the invader who grabbed your kid (hey, all of these scenarios are unlikely).
I live in an open carry state, but I’m pretty sure I’d still get followed by security if I left my 300BLK AR pistol strapped to my hip when I went shopping (that’s the gun at the front of the safe, the bigger stuff is further back).
@@84kjk You have to understand when Cooper made this remark it was talking in a martial context. Meaning, form a military perspective that's the only use a handgun has. People came to associate this as some kind of universal "gun law". That said, if I come home and find my front door wide open and people are inside, then the handgun is going to be used to get me to one of my rifles or shotguns. That is a bit more realistic of a scenario for some in the world depending on where they live.
As a whole I don't give it the same devoted concept most do because I understand it was meant in a martial context. Cooper said a lot of things that don't hold up well in todays ideology and doctrines. But, not everything he said or did is this way. If you think this saying of his is dumb, look up his Scout Rifle concept. It's even dumber.
@@84kjk Always nice to hear comments from the peanut gallery who know knowing of the context and meaning of Cooper’s statement, which is absolutely true.
Another bit of shotgun wisdom from Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch: “Terminal ballistics; pistols put holes in people, rifles put holes through people… shotguns, at the right range right load will physically remove a chunk of shit off your opponent and throw that shit on the floor”.
Hardly eloquent but realistically stated.
It was explained to me like this…for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction (Newton’s third law of motion). In other words, if a bullet was strong enough to knock you over or lift you into the air then it would be strong enough to knock the shooter over and lift them into the air. The “knock down” is about the internal damage the bullet does to bones and nerves, not the necessarily the force of the bullet. While Bigger faster rounds will produce more damage, the force they generate is nothing like is portrayed in the movies. Makes sense when you think about it like that…
That is exactly how the principal works. In all actuality the projectile is at its "most generative" the instant it leaves the barrel. Projectile design will play a huge role in transference of remaining energy to the target, i.e a hollow point or expanding bullet.
Glad to see other people understand this as well...
I always have to laugh how in the movies a guy gets shot and is taken off his feet and thrown backwards 5 or 10 ft... 😁😁
I was watching one of the top youtube tacticool guys one day and he said that knockdown power was complete BS and "for a gun to have enough energy to knock down its target it would also have to have enough energy to knock down its shooter." I immediately pulled up a compilation of several people getting knocked over trying to shoot a .12 gauge and never took his word for solid fact again.
Let me do that same test with my .416 Rigby. Then you’ll see that knock down does exist.
"in other words, if a bullet was strong enough to knock you over or lift you into the air then it would be strong enough to knock the shooter over and lift them into the air."
Close but not really. That would be the case in a vacuum (literally and figuratively). When it comes to firearms/weapons on earth, we buffer the shot with mechanical and biological recoil management. This is why tanks and artillery pieces don't fly backwards. It is a combination of their weight but also the recoil management of buffers, springs, hydraulics, shocks, etc. You act as a partial buffer when you shoot. The energy is absorbed into your body and down to the ground. Additionally, the energy has less of a path of resistance out the open end of the muzzle so most goes down range,
It is easy to forget how good or “powerful” a 357 magnum is. It’s a great and versatile cartridge. Thanks for the fun video
Excellent deer handgun round.
In a 16 inch lever action you can elk hunt with a .367 mag.
yeah kinda sucks that you dont see stuff like the coonan anymore.
It was the premiere handgun round until 10mm was developed.
@@TheDiameter God's centimeter
Col.,. Your choice of guns used, was outstanding! Love seeing your older items brought out and shown! Thank You brother!!
Good to see you guys having fun.
Last Saturday was out yearly Halloween pumpkin disposal day. So I took my kids out back and showed them what damage different calibers would do to the pumpkins. We shot 9mm, 5.56 and .308 and they weren't interested in shooting the old fudd shotgun until they saw what a 1oz would do to a pumpkin through a 28in barrel 🤣
It’s always low key and mellow until the shotgun comes out…
@@baomao7243 a lot of people don't understand how devastating a semi auto shotgun is
28 inch barrel, that an anti aircraft gun !
@J.Robert Sergertson I think its a turkey gun, my dad passed it to me. I don't hunt but it looks crazy Is next to my 18" Beretta
The barrel length on a shotgun is more for better shot patterns at distance. That's why skeet guns and waterfowl shotguns have long barrels. The velocity is only slightly affected.
I tested this between an 18" and 28" barrel. The 28" barrel always had tighter and better patterns at longer distances when compared using the same loads from the same chokes. I think a 20-22" barrel on a shotgun is a good medium for most deer hunters who like to use buckshot. It's not too long to move around the brush but gives better patterns than an 18" barrel, especially on barrels with fixed chokes.
Crush Bob with double the power of your standard slug.
The two heaviest hitting 12 gauge slugs Brenneke makes are the:
1. Black Magic Magnum 3", weight 602 grains, 1502 FPS and 3014 ft lbs at the muzzle.
2. Magnum Crush 3", weight 666 grains, 1604 FPS and 3804 ft. lbs at the muzzle.
Bullet placement and accuracy is always more important, if you can't hit what your aiming at it doesn't matter what you use.
BINGO 👍
Which proves nothing about foot pounds of energy. Perfect accuracy and bullet placement with a pea shooter don't mean shit.
@@litsci4690
It doesn't but it his statement has merit. How many people would argue that a 30-30 isn't powerful enough for elk, caribou, or even Moose, yet with some googling, it has been done numerous times successfully.
@@toddk1377 Is the moose, caribou, or elk feet away and trying to kill you? NO.
@@litsci4690
There's a video where a guy head shot a grizzly bear with a 30-30 and dropped it as it was charging him.
Dude MAC great video, I love how you guys really try to make content that is logical and relevant in regard to the firearms community.
Another great video!!!
😃 Good times were had. Poor Bob. Great video Tim!
Dang Rudolph, must be cold out there!
More fun videos like this! Highly entertaining!
I feel a more scientific approach to this experiment would be shooting a target that is attached to springs and an pressure meter to measure how much pressure the bullet produces on impact and how much of an angle the target is pushed back upon impact.
Who do you think this guy is....Garand Thumb??
I think something like ballistic gell would be a better target. then use the presure meter to check how much energy is dumped in to the target.
Exactly what would that testing methodology show you as to the terminal performance on a human?
@@draganbalzic4493 well since tge majority are fat and gelatin like (I'm working on fixing myself) the ballistic gelatin might closely resemble a majority of Americans lol
But how much energy the projectile imparts to the target is one of the least important metrics as long as it has enough to penetrate deeply and destroy things along the way. In reality our guns are little more than remote spears that we poke holes in things from a distance with. When velocities get much over 2000 fps then a hydrostatic shock benefit begins to show itself where the water laden tissues can't get out of the way fast enough and the CNS can be shocked which drops the target like it was pole axed. But it's best to put the bullet in the 'boiler room' so to speak and don't count on anything more and you'll be good to go.
If stopping power wasn't a real thing, everyone would carry .22lr handguns.
Not really... even if it weren't a thing .22 in a handgun is just shown to consistently fail to meet FBI minimums for penetration and etc. Has little to do with how much "power" it has. Although, if the Fudds are to be believed ".22 LR will bounce around your insides!" and thus making it the deadliest round known to man that 99% of people don't rely on for self defense.
Great video Tim
Very entertaining!
What a fun video!! Thanks guys for the 'sience' imformation....
Awesome video !!!!!!!!!!!!! Two thumbs way Up
Great video. Any chance of bringing back the gauntlet test?
@@roaringsteelmedia they’re fun to watch. I don’t think I’m the only one who enjoys them.
Thanks, guys! Fun video!
that was a fun vid. Love the SPAS-12
I think you have a very educational show please continue to good work
Great Video!👍👍👍
Greetings from Switzerland!
This was both funny and somehow educational.
My suggestion for the next stopping power exercise is to do it with ballistic gel.
Anyway, thanks for this video Tim, I appreciate it.
Tim: I was laughing so hard. This video made my day since my Monday sucked out the gate. In the 1980s and 1990s "knock down power" was used quite frequently and I even found myself parroting that nonsense back then. Although sometimes used, I do think more people have wised up to that misnomer. Thanks for the entertainment. BTW: are you ever bringing back your face targets 😂🤣😉?
@lit sci OK then what is your interpretation of my use of the word "nonsense?"
Love this content! Keep it up, brotha! 🤘🇺🇲🤘
Decades ago Mas Ayoob made a video where he demonstrated "knock-down power" quite well. With bullet proof vest in place, a guy was shot with a 308 out of a FAL while he was standing on one foot. He moved a little bit, bit didn't come close to falling over. A very good video... I think it was "In the gravest extreme".
That was fun!
The 357 fired out of my Uberti 1873 Winchester is a surprisingly accurate out to well over a hundred yards. I still have my S&W model 19 from my police department. It was made in about 1968 and who know how many cops used before me. When we went to the SIG P220s in 1987 the PD sold us our 19s for $65.00.
I have a .357 MAG IWI Timberwold pump Rifle and its awesome, i got my first buck with it when i was 8 years old
357 is still my favorite for so many reasns. Good show.
An old mentor of mine in the muzzle loading community always shot a 58 cal Hawken, when ask about why, he explained about the extra energy carried down range. He called this as Wompability!
That 45 win mag pistol is awesome looking
"Wildey's here." - Paul Kersey
The Lord's caliber... so powerful it knocks you forward. GOBLESS ...
what the hell?! youtube actually let me know MAC posted a video? the notification button does work! -when it wants to
"Knock Down Power" is polite speak for "falls over dead in 1 shot"
That was fun! Thanks. Thumbs up 👍🏻 ~John
Yes, that was a fun little video.
Bob is one tough bastard!
I learned somethang I already knew good Ole 230 ball 45acp does the trick
Bob the Indomitable
So what u gathered from this amazing video, is that 45acp is the most powerful pistol cartridge
I would love to see if you could set a scale to show what each round does in pounds .
Stay Bob, stay. I don't know why that made me laugh so hard but it did. Creepy ass Bob lol.
Very entertaining! Oh, and M-65 jackets rule!
my grandfather have the officer's luger which is larger than the standard infantry variant and has no safety.
Great video Tim. I know your hand hurt with a couple of those. (lol)
That's not Ballistics Bob, that's Fred from I AM LEGEND. :)
Lol. The slug!
I just whacked a Beautiful 8 pointer here in VT, 2 days ago, with my Remington 7600 35 Whelen, and man O man that 35 Whelen surely knocked him rite over with one shot, and it was even high on his shoulder, and didnt hit his heart, so im just so surprised with the pure power knock down power of that 35 Whelen round, it sure is a monster.
There is a formula for knock down power. It is Taylor’s KO Formula
developed to determine one stop potential on big game.
(Bullet weight * MV * Caliber) / 7000
Can it be applied to pistols? If ballistics is ballistics then why not? However you will get two answers - 1) if the hollow point doesn’t function (FMJ) and 2) the average of when it does (making the caliber larger). These are HST or Gold Dot results, hollow point functions:
45 ACP - 20
40 SW - 18 (180 grain)
357 Mag - 17 (2” barrel)
357 Sig - 17
9mm - around 10 (various weights and MV)
9mm 147 grain +P - 15
Edit: 12GA slug - 61
i always wanted to try shooting a 9mm win mag myself.
LOVE THAT SPAS 12 GA.!!!
You should have gotten those stickers mythbusters had that measured the amount of energy imparted on an object. Those would have been perfect for this.
Thanks Tim- I had no idea about spalding with body armor.
OH!
With steel plates. It’s way less likely with ceramic or composite armor like poly and Kevlar.
2 l's no "d" just a heads up
As Robert Heinlein once surmised, "If you can't express it mathematically, it is an opinion." Knock down power, or stopping power are terms coined for marketing, nothing more. For example, If someone is attacking me, and I throw my cell phone at them and they stop, does my cell phone have stopping power? How much kinetic force or energy can a round transfer or impart to the target? That is what needs to be asked.
That was fun
You might explain the difference between Kinetic energy and momentum. KE is velocity squared x mass, Momentum is velocity x mass. Therefore projectiles with similar KE but weight is vastly different, the heavier projectile will always push the target more.
Bobs head spun around … like he was just trying to “NOPE!” out of the there. That slug was a thumper. Poor bob. Nothing a few stitches and some soup can’t fix imho. If it doesn’t help, RIP Bob.
Fudds:
(snaps suspenders) WHOA, the .45 knocked 'em back and THEN pulled 'em forward when the soul was sucked out towards the 1911! (steals your brass)
I enjoyed this
I always thought of the term "knock down" as it's used in boxing , not knocked OVER . Doing enough damage to drop somebody in action . Maybe over time the two got intermingled and I am sure movies and tv didn't help with dudes getting shot in the chest then flying 10 feet through a window.
I agree with this 100 percent, thats how it was always explained to me too.
Issue with using that definition, it runs into shot placement determining whether it'll drop someone. A perfect hit with a 380 could drop somebody, while a bad hit with a 44 magnum won't.
@@TheKalkara131 your right, the variables need to be taken out to be more objective. Further more it also shouldnt be considered in a direct kill zone either… The idea of, “takedown” power is subjective at best which is why so many people laugh at the idea… but yet a lot of guys who get disgusted with the idea of takedown power, turn around and talk about torque values of different bullets which is a direct correlation to the idea of knockdown power when looking at it from a fighters point of view as stated above. Otherwise the only scientific way of looking at ballistics is to look at which bullets make the best holes to drop blood pressure or destroy vital organs.
@@timr4853 I truly think it's just one of those things that people in the firearms community love to worry about, but in practical terms, it won't make that much difference. If a 9mm doesn't take a threat out of the fight, I doubt a 45 will, given the extremely small time frames these encounters happen in.
@@TheKalkara131 I think theres just too many variables involved to worry too much about it. Like you said, its going to happen so quick anyways…chances are you’ll be firing multiple rounds into the person anyways. Shot placement is what the focus should be. None the less though, a .45 acp to the shoulder is much more likely to hurt or slow an attacker than a .22lr to the same spot, so there seems to be some kind of plausible validity… just probably not something we should focus on so much.
.40 S&W: “I am forgotten”
Glad to see cooter's family carrying on the trade.
Ooh yeah Bob, gotcha some spotlight time. 👌
I would really like to see 30 super carry in this test. I know it's not a high power round but it needs some more information about it.
I wouldn’t call it a test. If those other cartridges didn’t do it 30 super carry would be the weakest of them all.
Be honest Tim, you brought out those slugs just to flex on us with the SPAS-12... 🤣
@6:00 I enjoyed the tribute to Michael Brown. 🤣
bob had it coming, he talks crap about you when your not around
“Not great Bob!”
An interesting thing about energy transfer to targets hit with bullets is that the longer (fractions of a second) that the bullet is in contact with the target more energy is transferred. Also, the total surface area of the projectile affects this. This is why slower, heavier projectiles tend to be more effective, at least with ball ammunition, on soft targets. Faster, lighter and or more frangible projectiles exploit hydro-static shock and tissue disruption to do their thing. Although if you are paying attention, things like hollow points, ballistic tips etc. stay in contact with the target longer than a ball projectile of the same velocity/size and shape does... As an aside, spherical projectiles tend to have better penetration on soft targets due to their low drag.
Bob looks like he just crawled out of a trunk in Zed’s basement.
😄 poor bob but...
Wait...what no 50 BMG.
Or is that for another video with bob.😉
Even the slug didn't send Bob flying across the room, like in the movies.
Can't get over the look on Bob's face.
Interesting
Bullet mass X velocity ( K.E. = 1/2 m v2 to determine the kinetic energy )
Mac next video should be knockdown power V2! Rifle calibers and all that foot pounds they deliver!
This was entertaining.
one of my favorite calibers is still 45 super 🙏
This seems like a ricochet hazard at that range.....
Bob didn’t scream in pain 😂😂😂😂
Still giggling about the 357 magnum num num num num
Funny how the only rounds to come close to putting him down was the .45 ACP and the 12 Gauge Slug.
This was a fun video I think you should do one but with only hard cast rounds 🇺🇸👍🏻
Mac discovers momentum
Idk about the plates mounting method.
Bob is a badass!!
What about the 45 Super? Also have you guys checked out PSA type 56 spiker ak yet?
Other than the 12 gauge, the .45 acp was the only round causing BOB to fall……FORWARD!!
I always thought knockdown would be something like proportion of energy transfered from flying projectile to flesh and how fast it transfered.
That 9mm looked like hollowpoint to me
“Knockdown” as most people describe it is a combination of deceleration and penetration formulas.
When applying these formulas in real life two common mistakes are made.
1: confusion between inertia (I=MV) and impact (or impulse) inertia (I=((V^2)M)/2)
Inertia is used for calculating deceleration of a car hitting the breaks or a bullet slowing in gel. Impact inertia is the energy translated into pressure on the point of the impact of a moving object against a stationary object.
2: xp = E / (Yc A)
This is the formula for penetration depth. A bullet will likely penetrate through a target and all energy of the bullet not lost through deceleration will just be carried away with the projectile. So a .44 with an FMJ for example may have an impulse inertia of 1000ft/lbs but about 800 of that will be wasted as the bullet passes through.
What would 50 express be compared with for the rounds you did use?
45ACP...when you positively, absolutely, want to send your very best.👍👍
How about the harpoon gun from dirty harry?