+feeatlastfeeatlast What you online atheists fail to understand is that the revelatory experience that the theists talk about exists, they just talk about it the way they do because they do not fully understand what is happening within their version of the revelatory experience. It appears that while you online atheists are correct when you say that you are good without god, that there is no god, you throw the baby out with the bathwater when you can't come up with any explanation for the revelatory experiences that humans have had to one degree or another throughout all of human history. Oh, and it is not a revelation if all you think it is is that you have finally discovered that there is no god, that would just be insipid. Knowledge, the likes of which sparks the revelatory experiences expressed by all the ‘’wise’’ men and ‘’wise women, all the ‘’sages’’ and ‘’seers’’ throughout human history, regardless of whether they are religious or theistic or not, is there for the grasping, but it appears that you online atheists are too narrowly defined intellectually to grasp it. Try harder...
+Stephen Kirby So you would be in the sort-of Sam Harris camp with his book "Waking Up" as opposed to David Silverman's more materialistic view. The argument here would be that there is some sort of spiritual experience that can be had, but the way that religious people have interpreted those experiences is false and improperly framed.
+oremfrien commented; ‘’+Stephen Kirby So you would be in the sort-of Sam Harris camp with his book "Waking Up" as opposed to David Silverman's more materialistic view.’’ I am not familiar with Harris’ book, but I can say that Harris does not go as far into the search for Truth as I purport to go. ‘’The argument here would be that there is some sort of spiritual experience that can be had, but the way that religious people have interpreted those experiences is false and improperly framed.’’ In essence, this statement is correct, except that the experience is not at all spiritual, but completely proof-testable and without the taint of anything spiritual, or mystical, or magical, or miraculous, or godly, or of anything supernatural, attached to it.
Re: 5:50, Silverman is wrong here. There are numerous debates between adherents of different religions as to the veracity of one over the other. There are tv shows that are specifically written to target conversion from a specific religion to a different specific religion (like Acts 17 Apologetics which targets Muslims for Christianity) and they will often hold debates because they believe that it shows the validity of their faith over the other one. Historically inter-religious debates were also very important and the film "The Disputation" with Christopher Lee recalls the historic religious debate between Catholic Pablo Cristiani and Jew Naimonides. The reason these debates occur less on the mainstream is that interfaith dialogue and the "growing threat" of Atheism and Irreligion (the repression of religion by government like in the Soviet Union) has pushed most major religious leaders together.
A magnificent speech. Hard hitting, truth telling.
David Silverman - my newest hero, joining the list of Dawkins, Krauss, Harris and Hitchens.
+feeatlastfeeatlast What you online atheists fail to understand is that the revelatory experience that the theists talk about exists, they just talk about it the way they do because they do not fully understand what is happening within their version of the revelatory experience.
It appears that while you online atheists are correct when you say that you are good without god, that there is no god, you throw the baby out with the bathwater when you can't come up with any explanation for the revelatory experiences that humans have had to one degree or another throughout all of human history.
Oh, and it is not a revelation if all you think it is is that you have finally discovered that there is no god, that would just be insipid.
Knowledge, the likes of which sparks the revelatory experiences expressed by all the ‘’wise’’ men and ‘’wise women, all the ‘’sages’’ and ‘’seers’’ throughout human history, regardless of whether they are religious or theistic or not, is there for the grasping, but it appears that you online atheists are too narrowly defined intellectually to grasp it. Try harder...
+Stephen Kirby
So you would be in the sort-of Sam Harris camp with his book "Waking Up" as opposed to David Silverman's more materialistic view. The argument here would be that there is some sort of spiritual experience that can be had, but the way that religious people have interpreted those experiences is false and improperly framed.
+oremfrien commented;
‘’+Stephen Kirby So you would be in the sort-of Sam Harris camp with his book "Waking Up" as opposed to David Silverman's more materialistic view.’’
I am not familiar with Harris’ book, but I can say that Harris does not go as far into the search for Truth as I purport to go.
‘’The argument here would be that there is some sort of spiritual experience that can be had, but the way that religious people have interpreted those experiences is false and improperly framed.’’
In essence, this statement is correct, except that the experience is not at all spiritual, but completely proof-testable and without the taint of anything spiritual, or mystical, or magical, or miraculous, or godly, or of anything supernatural, attached to it.
Re: 5:50, Silverman is wrong here. There are numerous debates between adherents of different religions as to the veracity of one over the other. There are tv shows that are specifically written to target conversion from a specific religion to a different specific religion (like Acts 17 Apologetics which targets Muslims for Christianity) and they will often hold debates because they believe that it shows the validity of their faith over the other one. Historically inter-religious debates were also very important and the film "The Disputation" with Christopher Lee recalls the historic religious debate between Catholic Pablo Cristiani and Jew Naimonides. The reason these debates occur less on the mainstream is that interfaith dialogue and the "growing threat" of Atheism and Irreligion (the repression of religion by government like in the Soviet Union) has pushed most major religious leaders together.
Great lecture, horrible filming lol.