Do Standing Desks' Benefits Stand Up to Research?
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- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2018
- Research suggests that warnings about sitting at work are overblown, and that standing desks are overrated as a way to improve health. Let's dig in.
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Well I'm sticking with my underwater desk with adjustable current. Its got its problems too, like when I got a paper cut and the sharks were attracted by the blood.
That has to be some amazing waterproof paper.
@@JannPoo I'll check out the watermark and let you know what type of paper it is.
Where did you get your underwater desk? I want a fish-tank office too.
@@DragoNate ISEA
@@AvailableUsernameTed Sweet thanks!
After working in jobs were you were not allowed to sit down --"Chairs are for Customers"-- you tend to be a little disbelieving of the 'standing your way to better health' idea. The number of people in pain, myself included, from standing for hours on end --worse when in one spot-- is significant. Numerous amounts of stress fractures in the feet, back issues, and a sense of learned helplessness over it seems prevalent in the retail industry.
I dream of finally getting a desk job.
Just because one thing is bad doesn’t mean its opposite is good! Sitting long term, and standing long term, are both not ideal.
This comes from someone who has had jobs both of which included standing for 12+ hours as well as sitting for 12+ hours.
Conversely, as someone who had been in the exact opposite situation ("You're not allowed to leave your station!") early in his professional career and experienced comparable problems, I dreamt of a job where I can move freely. After getting such a job, my kinesiological health and other health issues directly related to kinesiological health have improved dramatically.
Both extremes are destructive, but only because there is no opportunity for people to do what their bodies scream at them to do.
I've done both, I worked as a waiter in fast-paced restaurants for almost 10 years and have now been working at a desk job for the last year. Honestly, while I'd never want to go back to the service industry, the only thing I do miss is the ability to move around and not have to spend hours sitting. I have more neck pain now than ever. I think balance is what you should want instead of either extreme.
I have a standing desk for the specific purpose of putting a hard-limit on my gaming time. That way, I don't retreat into myself. It's worked really well! I'm also more active around the house and more inclined to walk after standing behind it.
It is huge for getting stuff done, it changes a computer from a place to lounge to a place of work. Also, they're not really expensive, $300 is not bad for a desk (Ikea). Bluetooth headphones are part if it if you use headphones. I'll put things off that are away from the desk because I don't want to stop the music I'm listening to, not so with wireless.
@@c--b Yup! Though I use my phone for music.
I found that standing makes me more creative, focused and help me to stay alert even in those days that I wake up sleepy. It's pretty neat!
I've been using a standing computer desk at work for a long time. I also have a music stand I use to read documents while standing. Haven't lost any weight but I have far fewer back and neck pains than I had when I sat all day. I think the conclusion here is as following: Standing is not exercise, but it is good for your back. It also encourages you to go out and walk around once in a while.
I think the disconnect here is "standing." I work at home which means I don't get any tangential exercise. My Apple watch says I went from 3000 steps a day at work to less than 500 working at home.
Having since purchased a sit stand desk, I'm back up to over 3000 steps, because I'm prone to pacing when I think.
It's not exercise per se, but it is a difference in behavior. I'm not sure how you quantify it, but it feels better to me.
I can only speak for myself, but I bought a treadmill desk in 2016 and I still use it to walk on average 4 hours a day. Within the first 6 months I was down over 40 pounds, and my plantar fasciitis and knee crepitus I had since I was a teenager resolved within months and have never come back. Also, I had a car accident in 2014 that left me with a neck injury and sciatica, which would flare up badly every 2-3 months - since my desk height can be adjusted up and down throughout the course of the day, I'm not straining my neck or slouching my back when I'm typing up emails or watching a movie and I've had hardly any flareups since (and they have been very small, I don't need muscle relaxants for them anymore). My desk isn't a replacement for other types of exercise (like weight lifting) but it's still one of the best investments I ever made for myself.
I've never even heard such a desk existed, thanks for sharing!
@@iainmacleod7169 If interested, buy a used one. Most get used for about 2 days before they become coat racks.
I would be super interested to see any studies about walking desks. Seems like they might be much more effective for health than just standing.
Yeah, being able to move around a lot more probably makes a lot of difference.
What brand and model is it?
i don't know how people can promote standing for long periods of time
rotating positions and taking breaks is where it's at, have been doing it since the beginning of this year because of back problems, and i thought i was the weird one not being able to sit or stand for long and people pity me, but then i learned that i'm the one doing it right
I expected the video to address the rotation aspect but was disappointed.
Since this comment, and assuming you still do it, how has it been?
Is a discomfort when standing up or sitting normal? After two hours of alternating with periods of thirty minutes I feel like I have to lay down.
I sit a lot and lay down a lot because I feel like crap and am too tired to stand much, because POTS and endometriosis. When I feel better, I exercise and stand more, because I can. Treating people’s underlying health issues that cause chronic pain or chronic fatigue will allow them to move more. People who exercise a lot are healthier because you have to have a certain baseline level of health in order to be physically able to exercise a lot.
I wish I had this video 2 months ago when I wrote a "wellness tip" at work that it's nice to get up every once in a while during the workday. This triggered a suggestion box request for employees to get standing desks upon request. Then came a very active couple of months for me, who was in charge of installing about forty 70 lb desks. I think I'm the only one that got any actual exercise since.
Thank you for covering this. I also read your book "Bad Food Bible", and I really appreciate how you take research and put it in lay terms to help calm "health crazes". You (and I assume the team working with you as well) do amazing, good work. Thank you.
When will people realize life is about balance.
I'd say about 2500 years ago when the primary religious figure in history who preached balance above all was alive (the Buddha).
🙏🏽
no its not when modern society isn't balanced
today
I honestly am so much more productive and awake when I stand. Health or not, it makes me feel better when I’m standing!
😂😂 yes yes self hypnosis
I love my sit-stand desk, but rarely use it sitting. I like standing because I fidget a lot and kind of like dancing around. I think the biggest problem with sitting is that most of us don't do it right. We tend to have poor posture, slump or slouch, or sit in other twisted positions.
I love being able to stand up and do a lil dancing while Im working. I also enjoy doing baby squats if that makes sense
i love everything about this video. Both the content and your skilled presentation.
I've been having neck pain, those underlying issues also aggravating my migraines, and I finally made the connection that the desk and tables at my job are all too low for me, leaving me hunched over while doing paperwork. In the past 2-3 weeks, I've taken to bringing the paperwork a little bit at a time from the office into another room, working on it, bringing it back and exchanging it for the next set of paperwork, going back to the other room to work on that, rinse and repeat. This has helped a lot just because I now only spend 10-15 minutes sitting with paperwork before getting up and walking, even if it's just for a couple of minutes, rather than sitting for over an hour without a break. I just did it to help my neck, but maybe I'll get some additional benefits as well--I could certainly use them!
I use a standing desk now and it was a total game changer for me. I have the nice leaning stool to swap between standing and leaning, and that takes pressure off my joints.
But overall I feel more engaged and alert when standing. It’s like how driving stick makes you feel more in tune with a car.
It’s my favorite piece of furniture.
The best thing about those desks is that you can adjust your chair for your body, then lower or raise the desk based on your chair. Non-adjustable desks require you to adjust the chair to the height of the desk, meaning it's not adjusted to your body anymore.
The same effect can usually be achieved with a keyboard tray.
I've seen so many patients with chronic leg pain due to 30 years of working standing up (retail jobs).
Comparatively, as long as the posture is correct, I've barely seen any health problems in patients that are due to multiple years of sitting work.
Therefore, in addition to the great information in this video, it is clear that governments suggesting replacing desks with standing desks on a large scale is incredibly misguided...
working at a standing desk doesn't preclude one from sitting either with height adjustable desks, draughtsmans chairs or moving to another desk/sofa intermittently though
I'd imagine those people exclusively standing were generally not allowed to sit even when idle, especially retail as many retail managers think that having staff sit looks bad for some reason
@@rsfllw Indeed they were not allowed because they seem to think it would "look bad".
But if such measures were applied on a large scale, we would have to trust the government and the companies in their application (for no proven benefit, might I add). It isn't hard to imagine mid-level management yelling at employees for sitting because them doing so "looks bad for upper management's stats on the application of the new standing desks measures".
Edit: Typo.
Less than a year into starting my first “desk job” I developed a herniated disk. I was sitting, on average about 10+ hours a day, including travel time. As a young, healthy 24 year old (without health insurance) I WISH my company had encouraged the use of the dozen stand-sit desks we had access to.
The biggest caveat there being that the chairs which allow for correct posture and muscle activation are several hundred, if not thousands, of dollars US. It's not even remotely cost effective for the vast majority of businesses or individuals.
@FlyijgDwarfman which chairs are those? I have a high suspicion it is not any one I know.
I can't express properly how much I love this channel. Everyone should be watching.
Everybody met office has a standing desk, and I find the alternating standing and sitting goes a long way towards keeping me productive. That said, there was a time many years ago where I only had a standing desk and I found that it aggravated my sciatica, so it's not all roses.
Thanks for addressing the "Sitting is the new smoking" quote. It remains among the dumbest quotes I've heard in recent years.
as a subscriber to your channel, it's a pleasant surprise to stumble on you here. And 100% agree with you.
I tried to quit sitting, I was even thinking of joining a church group who helps the addicted, but as I went there, they were all sitting.
As someone who used to work at a pharmacy full time, my entire job was standing around or running around grabbing bottles or putting pills or liquids away, but usually I was manning the phones and typing prescriptions... A lot of co-workers had pain and issues from having to stand all day long. I was actually warned about vericose veins being a thing that a lot of pharmacy personnel have to deal with later in their career due to the demands of the job, so it might be a good idea to get compression stockings! I mean, if that is the outcome of the standing culture of a small subset, and the dangers of veins, given the pressure in your legs, it might actually cause issues if more people start ONLY standing while working.
@@petitio_principii 😂😂😂
@@petitio_principii smoking is a gateway drug, next you’ll be sitting.
I love the content on this channel! It would be great to have links to the cited articles in the description.
Love the breakdown of these videos, I say as I stare at my phone and wait for a call from med school! Have you ever done a video on Doctors Without Borders and the work they actually do/ the debt alleviation they offer volunteers?
I loved the height adjustable desk at my last job, it really helped with my back pain. I never heard or thought that it was supposed to be good for cardiovascular health.
I really appreciate this video, especially since I've been looking into these types of desks recently.
What about with ADHD? I had a co-worker who wanted a sit-stand desk for his severe back pain and ADHD and another co-worker who wanted one because because of ADHD. Both of them would stand up throughout the day at their regular desk, take walks on their breaks, and when work slowed down they would walk up and down their cubicle aisle.
I also have a good friend who is a special Ed teacher at a middle school and she had found that having sit-stand desks help her students move at their desks without being a huge distraction to the rest of the kids and has led to more focus on lessons.
A friend of mine asked me what I thought of asking her son's school if he could use a standing desk to help with his ADHD. I think something like that could have helped me with my ADHD when I was his age.
I've seen desks that have pedals on them for the same reason. It's a cool idea.
@@MatthewStinar me too
Of all the devices I've used, the sleeping desk was my favorite. The only downside was that productivity fell to zero.
Thank you! I really needed an examination of this.
Thank you so much for this!!
Thanks, I have been wondering about this for a long time.
This video is so freaking good that it immediately made me want to support the channel
This is very interesting! I appreciate you debunking some of the hype.
Anecdotally, a top-of-desk adjustable standing desk was super helpful for my recovery when I injured my lumbar area. It cost my employer like $250.
How about treadmill desk mix?
Thank you for this video!
However sitting for extended period of time shortens you qauds an illupsoas which you need to stand in a healthy way so will avoid back pain.
Say it with me folks. "Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation."
How to distinguish?
I loved that piece of info.
I like my sitty-standy desk, but am under no illusion about it being exercise. I find it more comfortable to switch positions periodically when I'm at the computer for long hours...and it makes it easier to vacuum underneath :)
How about walking on the spot while using a standing desk?
Good topic and information!
I personally assumed that the benefits of sit/stand workstations would be more related to joint health and slightly improved circulation, rather than cardiopulmonary health. More importantly, potentially at least, somewhat improved alertness.
I've had a sit/stand desk in my home office for about 3 years now. I used to stand at least 4 hours a day...never noticed any difference. Now, I only use the standing function if I'm feeling a bit anxious or have extra energy, but otherwise it stays lowered.
I recently overheard my coworkers talking about how running is bad for you. “It’s basically the worst thing for your body.” I know they say this because they are avid bikers. Do you have sufficient research on the “risks” of running? Compared to other types of exercise?
I do heavy strength training for an hour every morning before work, and my daily commute involves about 30-45 minutes of brisk walking total. Plus I'm quite active with other sports and playing with the two kids. Sedentary is certainly not a word I would use to describe myself.
But I have lower back pain, including mild sciatica, as a result of anterior pelvic tilt, largely caused by tight hip flexors. This is likely caused from sitting in front of a computer all day at work. Physio has given my hip flexor stretches to do, and they have helped a bit, but I still get a very sore back in the mornings after I wake up.
Alternating sitting with standing would certainly help a lot in my case. I expect my issues are quite common.
The beginning of last year, I believe, and for a few months before, I had been standing at my home "office" desk. I went 5 months at least, maybe more, standing at my desk here at home. I chose to almost never sit unless I really had to. I even ignored some of the discomfort thinking that it was better to be standing than sitting.
Boy was I wrong... Ended up aggravating the sciatica (which happens every year anyway...) pretty badly. Now I switch sometimes. But I also got myself a leaning stool for when I choose to stand.
Whaddya know, I click on this video and get my first ever ad on standing desks. 😐
Also, I'm surprised the video didn't mention anything about the health effects of treadmill desks, relative to standing/sitting desks, nor is there hardly any discussion about it in the comments. As a personal note, I got a treadmill desk for my PC at home and it has worked wonders on my general sense of fitness. A downside to it is that I usually can't operate it for more than 2-3 hours at a time, although that's probably a good thing.
I for one thought the treadmill or walking desk was just another office fad, but the collective findings on its health benefits convinced me otherwise. Of course, it's not for everyone, and the starting range for one is around $300, but at least for people who are already adapted to aerobic exercise and need to spend a lot of time at a desk, I'd say this is really something worth looking into.
Perfect timing I was gonna ask for a changing desk at work mainly because I just want to stand some time so it’s nice to get context
911 operator: It's really nice that we have the option since we literally do sit for 12 straight hours otherwise...but I agree, standing is not exercise. It is really good for posture when we need to be more attentive toward the computers during a very hectic time. There are so many ergonomic confounding factors before anyone could say that the desk is causal to any positive outcomes.
Curious about your thoughts on the essential oil craze. Perhaps do a video on that?
great vid could have slipped in the end that some also use slip desk treadmills
I have hypermobile joints and get a lot of pain working a desk job in general. During the pandemic, I got a standing desk to help as one way of combatting the pain and i do find it helpful, but i still mostly sit and rely mainly on proper measured adjustments of the keyboard/mouse, screen, etc, and getting up for regular exercise breaks, usually walking or some kind of physio or yoga exercise. I mostly sit and if i stand it's not for super long usually. Being hypermobile, standing can easily result in bad posture pretty quickly once my muscles have gotten tired. It's more the ability change it up in general that i think is helpful.
I really like my sit/stand desk. However, like you said, I have a bad lower back and not great posture. It's really helpful to go back and forth throughout the day. Never considered it exercise though.
Can I re-use this video for non commercial. I need to use this video for education purpose and not for online(reupload). Can I?
more anecdotal evidence from me - I have been using a standing desk for several years now and it's profoundly helped for my mid-back problems. This might just be a posture problem, but I get really twitchy if I sit for too long now.
I would be interested in findings about general effects on health. It's great that my cardiovascular system is probably going to be fine, but what about the muscles in the core and posterior chain?
I have ankylosing spondylitis (arthritis in my back and hips) and having a sit/stand desk helps me get through the day with less pain.
Do you have any thoughts on watching tv, reading a book, or play video games while either ridding a stationary bike or walking on a treadmill? This not counting toward the daily exercise a person does each day, just an added kind of activity.
Seriously though, it'd be neat to see the science on walking desks--are they just as effective as normal walking, or is there a downside?
We are running around all day on our feet carrying heavy loads at times. I thought this was healthy but I'm so vain! Am I going to get varicose veins... ?
I wonder if any studies have been done on cognitive abilities while standing vs. sitting. If a physics or calculus professor taught the same course to a class where the students sat and another where the students stood, would there be a systematic difference in test scores?
I find standing hurts my knees after some time, what can I do?
I like my sit-stand desk for more mental reasons than physical. I find that if I’m standing it’s easier to focus and I get things done faster. But that’s probably more a personal thing for me. I don’t think it makes me healthier at all, though
Skip6235 nope, it’s scientific too
sitting reduces blood flow and oxygen which results in worse concentration, when you stand your body gets oxygen again which is why you focus better when standing
I've been looking to try a standing desk for a while, but that's just because I've realized I have really really bad swamp ass all the time. I'm wondering if not sitting on my rear will help it sweat less, but I'd can you inly don't know if it will
I would have the same thing (a sweaty arse) working seated on a chair, I'd end up kneeling or hanging off the back of the chair to get some air in. Not any more with standing
"with lower back or neck pain" ... and leg pain.
Sitting in a chair all day makes my legs and feet hurt terribly. I get up and walk every hour or so to fend off this pain. I also get this pain when I sit in my car for a little while or in any seated position that puts pressure across the back my lower thigh, just above my knees.
So the consensus is that standing desk are not healthier, and purely a comfort factor?
Any studies analyzing the effects on health outcomes for workplaces with "excersise areas" or gyms close by
This is why I bought a desk bike to go with my standing desk. I can sit, stand or cycle. I got tired of the lower back stiffness. But I never thought to replace my standing desk with going to the gym which I do at least 4 days a week.
I work from home, sometimes I'm tired of sitting, so I go work lying on the couch.
Can i get the research sources?
great video. i have been scared out of my wit's because my work requires me to sit for long periods time.
Poorly designed chairs and desks, either by not being sturdy, not promoting good posture, or not complimenting each other is the root cause of work related health concerns. Standing desks are beneficial to posture because they eliminate 50% of the poor posture cause -- incompatible chair/desk combo. However if you dont properly use the standing desk you can still develop back problems.
This is important because at the end of the work day you bring your back problems with you, and if your body is stressed from poor posture its going to negatively impact how you relax and your post-work mood.
Anecdotal testimony: 10 yr desk worker, 8-14 hours/shift
Trying to balance the need to stand at my desk because of restless leg syndrome and afternoon sleepiness , and need to sit because of the development of varicose veins is beginning to make my work day feel like a circus.
I wish there sere a silver bullet.
I’m critical of this video.
You focus almost entirely on the weight-loss benefits, or more accurately, lack thereof, and does not focus on any valid reasons to recommend sit-stand desks.
This video does that which this channel criticises often, which is making a bold statement in the title that lacks any nuance.
This is dangerous for the following:
1. Sit-stand Desks are incredibly useful in the prevention of severe neck/back problems (as mentioned in your video)
2. These neck/back problems can be incredibly difficult or impossible to fix, and there are people who will never be able to access the proper care that they need
As someone who recently had to pay ~$15,000 for life-giving surgery, which was not covered by the national socialised healthcare of my country, due to back pain caused likely by an overly sedentary lifestyle, I am a huge proponent of sit-stand desk- not because I think it will help people lose weight, but sitting all day, in the same way as standing all day, is not good for anyone!
As person working at factory in 12h shifts let me tell you, in 5 years my knees and pelvic joints hurts like hell, and I'm only 30. Standing still might be considered torture, while walking, even for 12h does not strain my legs half as much standing does, after 12h of standing I have no will to go anywhere just sit or lie in bed because my joints had enough for a day.
I agree with standing too long it does hurt my feet and legs. But while im standing I like to do baby squats and then I get too tired I just sit down and repeat the process after I feel rested.
personally i use a bar desk and a high-backed bar stool. I can sit comfy when i want and when i wanna stretch my legs I can stand.because the desk is at standing height already i don't need to adjust it and i can switch between sitting and standing without interrupting my workflow. not under an illusion about being super healthy, but honestly i feel happier with this and better equipped to work than when i'm just sat on a leather office chair all day which simply puts me right to sleep
This is quickly becoming my favorite channel. I've been a healthcare regulator for 40 years, and the number of baseless health fads I've seen, some supported by sizable numbers of physicians, is mind boggling.
That's crazy! I guess it's the physician's opinion at that point.
Wait... people think that alternating between sitting and standing with a sit-stand desk, is cardiovascular exercise? Did their desks come with a treadmill? (I love my sit-stand desk, because my back no longer hurts, but that's a different issue entirely.)
As a teen I stood for 10 hours a day as a cashier, in college I do 12 hour receptionist shifts. What I like best is my lab clinicals, I can use a chair if I want or I can stand. I'm at the right height to do either with our counters. The option to do both is what I like best.
Maybe the real solution is...less work hours?
hard to change working culture of a country.
Those background lights need to be leveled. The right one is crooked and lower than the left.
Can you make an episode on treadmill desks?
Standing still is probably just as bad if not somewhat worse. The real benefit would be some walking breaks, even if very short. According to some, even some more or less frequent stand-up-for-a-few-seconds not-quite-breaks are beneficial. There's some study that compares heart risks on bus or train drivers and ticket revisers, and the drivers had a mensurable increased risk.
The issue of sitting in one place is the in one place part. A standing desk won’t help leaving your desk and moving around likely will.
Mortality isn't the only important metric. I would like to see studies on neck, shoulder, back pain.
i'd like to see studies on stools as well. they kinda seem like a 'best of both worlds' kinda tool.
Except if you need back support when sitting. But is a cool idea.
@@kouusa Agreed. I love my keyboard tray because I can bring my keyboard practically into my lap and then lean back in my chair. I don't develop those knots in my shoulders if I do that.
Been a fan of this channel for some time now and finally Patreoned :D Small amount though :( There are very many channels I want to support on a limited budget :P
Can you talk about your opinion on treadmill desks?
He indirectly did.
"Exercise is the closest we get to a wonder drug, but standing isn't exercise" also stating that workers would benefit more when walking around every once in a while.
So threadmill desks are amazing if you otherwise don't get any exercise.
I"ve researched these desks quite heavily and I've never seen the claim that they help cardio. Maybe cuz I focus more on science than intro paragraphs, but still, I've never once read that claim. I wonder which companies say that.
in addition, some people get additional problems with standing desks, such as baker's cysts.
I have four herniated disks. I have an adjustable desk so I can stand when i need to and sit when I need to. It helps me greatly.
*I have standing desks both at home and at work. I recognize hype for hype, but the one at home is very nice. I basically never put it in the down position. When I want to sit, I have a tall stool, or I move my computer somewhere else, but I usually stand unless I am winding down for the night.*
*The one at work is meh. I still stand the vast majority of the time, but it is actually just a (badly-designed) mechanical add-on to my built-in cubicle desk, and it is too small for my monitors, so I either have to use my tiny laptop screen (that's not at head-height) or crane my neck. Additionally, there is not really room to put paper, so I have to choose either sitting or hunching over to draw or write. In short, there are still a lot of ergonomics problems that might be worse than sitting, so I plan on making some modifications to my workstation: create at elevated platform or hanger for my monitors, find a way to be able to sketch standing up, etc. It IS very effective at keeping me from falling asleep on days when I'm not well-rested, however. Also, standing or sitting, I do usually leave to walk to the bathroom, print room, etc. at least once an hour.*
the pro-argument for standing desks that i heard about is avoiding slouching into the screen / bad posture so this clip is .. nice .. but misses the selling point of standing desks afaik
but what if I work at home?
Seems working out or moving in between working in front of the desk is best.
Hey, I like your channel
As a waiter and bartender for almost 10 years, you can tell me that standing while working is better for my health, but... it didn't feel like it.
Sedentary lifestyle is not treated like hunger, it is not enough to eat dinner to get full! Sedentary lifestyle is like malnutrition, treatment is done on time, without abuse and under close supervision. Weakening some muscles, and stiffening others, with a role in maintaining posture is the first effect of sedentary lifestyle, and before standing at the office, it is mandatory to balance the tone of your postural muscles.
What about treadmill desks?
Wait.. What about the video you made about sitting? You said standing up every hour or so would remove most downsides? Doesn't that imply that a causal link has been found?
I think that one was more about moving more often to increase activity.
I've encountered a number of standing work desks as a nurse. I have yet to have encountered one that was ergonomic. They are commonly too short or too tall, rarely height adjustable. Hence, they tend to cause shoulder, arm, neck and back strain.
I am far more likely to sit for short periods at a computer but walk frequently, whether mandated to do so or not. More ergonomic and also I avoid the drama queens.