What RUINED The Moro Saga...
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- Опубликовано: 2 дек 2020
- #DragonBallSuper has certainly had a mixed reception but has given Toyotaro, the pupil of Toriyama, to test the waters with creating new villains like Moro. This is the first saga of #DragonBall which Toriyama's student has led and we like it for the most part. However, there are some things which diminish the overall feel of the Moro Saga in our eyes and we wish to share our thoughts in this review of the #DragonBallZ precursor. What RUINED The Moro Saga...
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This video is our review of the Moro Saga of Dragon Ball Super.
• What RUINED The Moro S...
• What RUINED The Moro S...
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Hi
if Zamasu did not turn evil, and got to become Supreme Kai of universe 10 having completed all his training would he be a better supreme kai than Shin?
Moro may have a pointed jaw line but it’s isn’t a perfect jaw line
I am sad that we don't get to see Southern Supreme Kai appear in Majinn Buu. He was absorbed too before Grand Supreme Kai
@@TheWarmachine375 dont forget about Lila as well the West Supreme Kai she was also abosorbed
Oh Moro, you had so much potential. Then you became Cell.
Would you say... more potential than gohan?
@@supermegaepictriangleguy6899 Everyone has more potential than Gohan these days.
@@animeking1357 more potential than frieza?
*Moro-73* has entered the chat
Except not perfect
He should have stayed a Goat. His design was unique until he became Cell II.
Cell II and Super Buu-han II xD
I think they changed it because drawing a goat head over and over again was too difficult.
Very true and as a beast race I found it interesting. He just became another generic human based lifeform later. As all aliens written do.
@@mmaScholar99 If that's the case, that very sad as talented as Toya is. Even I could easily draw that over and over with no problem, aside from the hump area.
@@chriscannon8144 this is the same reason why they stopped using ss3, drawing all that hair just took too long.
- Transformation into Generic Face McGuffin
- Goku being an idiot
- Gohan being the hype man
Vegeta: "I AM THE HYPE!"
@@TheWarmachine375 not anymore
*Cell* : Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
@@e.t.1947 because the writers don’t wanna give my boi vegeta spot light. Lol
Gohan being the hype man? sounds like ssj9k
I'd say Vegeta's L and Goku's bad bean habit
Goku had two Ls so Vegeta got him there.
@@MasakoX The problem is that Vegeta has never once gotten the win over the main villain of a given arc - no matter how many times he's been set up to do so (I will forever despise RoF for that reason). Meanwhile the only villains that Goku didn't beat were Cell and Fused Zamasu. It's long overdue, and I'm getting really sick of Goku being given the win just because he's the protagonist. Plenty of other anime do this better.
100% came here to say that.
True i would also like to see vegeta get a solo win but goku didn't really get a solo win here either i mean he got final blow which i would also like vegeta to get, but without vegeta in this goku would've been toast
@Noah zzstu Smith LOL. Okay, let's play that game.
Even if you want to be generous and count things like the spirit bomb as a team victory, that still doesn't change the fact that Vegeta's never even had that (a technique that others have powered up in order for him to get the win).
Even including the previously mentioned villain exceptions, the plot has always made the point that Goku is the lynchpin to every victory, and I am sick and tired of it.
Goku's story arc was finished after Cell, and they just keep reversing his character growth in order to justify keeping him as the protagonist.
The role should have been handed over to Vegeta or Gohan long ago, and the fact that they keep teasing it for both characters, only to double back on it at the last minute, is completely unforgivable to the fans of those characters.
I wonder if Moro's redesign was a result of editor meddling like back in the Cell saga. If so:
Editor- "A goat? Really? No ones gonna like that, change i--"
Fandom: *_"You shut your god damn mouth."_*
Now that you say that...it makes way too much sense, probably the exact same thing happened.
Editor: "A goat? Are you KIDding me?"
Fandom: "...nice pun, but we still want the goat."
I love beast races and truly alien things. I am so sick of human based lifeforms dominating everything.
You know, the editors didn't like cell's bug look and made him generic. Your explanation could very well be the reason for moro's face change
And he look like db hero character now.
It can't be just a coincidence.
"If a character reappeared, it was only to serve the story, not the other way around."
*slide of Chi-Chi enters*
For me, the biggest blemishes would be Moro losing his visage and Goku screwing over everyone with a senzu bean AGAIN. The latter speaks for itself, but the former winds me up because it's such a waste of what I think was a great design while also driving home how derivative the whole thing was by making him a discount Cell. Another big issue was how the last fight seemed to drag on and on.
Precisely. Losing his ram-like features made him less distinctive. If we ever get a chance to talk to Toyotaro, I would ask him about that.
@@MasakoX i''ll prepare brass knuckles... or do you want cricket bat for education? Or my favorite... Pin of shame?
@@MasakoX I really have a feeling this is the editor's doing.
It’d be funny if he pointed the finger at his editor (Victory Uchida) for the reasoning behind Moro’s changed appearance. “Toyo, this Moro guy is still goofy looking even after he reverted to his prime. Can you hurry up and give him a final form?”
Toriyama sitting in the corner having flashbacks 😛
This is more of a criticism to the entire show, but the fact that beerus hasn't done anything of value yet. His only memorable moment in this entire manga, not anime, is him destroying all other god of destructions in their fight. I needed more moments like this from beerus. But no, instead we get a purple cat who just whines about food and sleeping, and occasionally makes threats to people who are a little rude to him.
Him beating the other Destroyers just makes it worse to me. He has ALL this power that he does nothing with.
It’s like if your standard Chadhan fic just had him sitting back at everyone else getting beat up
The thing about Beerus is that he's a character that should be used in moderation. If he uses his power, he invalidates the conflict like in Resurrection of F. If he doesn't, he's just around and feels like a gag that is well past its shelf life.
Basically, Beerus shouldn't be around in every arc. Only when the story needs him to be present. Much like Zeno, in fact.
Beerus not doing anything makes sense since he isnt obligated to help goku and the gang. He is not a Z-fighter
I know lots of people are probably going to say the same thing but for me it's how they hyped up Vegeta the entire time just to have Goku come in the last minute and take the win again just like we feared would happen.
Vegeta even had a good reason for wanting to beat moro, to make up for his past crimes
This truly felt like it was supposed to be Vegeta's arc in the start. His focus on redeeming his actions in Namek, his willingness to seek out other cultures for training. I'd say the closest we get to this in any other medium was his declaration that he was the protector of Earth in Gt. Vegeta trained to learn the perfect technique to deal with Moro. Then they pulled multiple deus ex machinas to turn Moro into the latest version of Freiza, strong, smug and evil. Ending on Oob was still hype but it was really out of left field for a finale that felt forced. And yeah, ultra instinct being so easy for Goku to access is taking place far too quickly.
That's one of the few good things I liked about GT, Vegeta pretty much became an Earthling through the years. I especially loved that one time he told Super17 & the Doc that he calls Earth his home.
I mean Goku accessed and mastered UI in the span of like half an hour in DB time.
@@DontCallMeYourSlime he didn't master Ui, he only unlocked a state of it's power, if he mastered UI he would stay in the form. I think Mui is more of Ultra instinct omen, it's pretty weak especially when he fought against whiz
What ruined the Moro saga was the abundance of his "transformations", especially that bs absorbing his henchmen and becoming a generic dbz villain design. It fell off to me at that point, they could've dragged out goku mastering UI for another arc, because let's be honest UI isn't going to he the end all form for goku
Amen to that brother.. at this point any new transformation is for marketing purposes
Well it is if you’ve read the Granolah arc
Hot take: Goku beansing it wasn't the problem, none of the other characters actually substantially caring and giving him any consequences for it was.
Granted, it backfired on Goku badly and he did realize it. Not enough to satisfy me, but its *something*
@@BetaGunslinger It didn't backfire on him, what happened was exactly what he expected would happen. It wasn't a secret plan to take Moro down, it was simply so Goku could have a fun fight, just like with Cell, him not pre-emptively destroying the androids, sparing Buu, and the Tournament of Power.
Nah, all of it was a problem, including the beansing.
since he DID NOT NEED TO DO THAT TO SPARE THE GUY.
but yeah, everyone just being okay with it is bad too.
@@KaiserMattTygore927 Well that's just the thing, he didn't do it to spare him, he did it so he could have a fun fight. That's completely in character for Goku if we look at the Cell Saga and beyond (he wasn't like the in the saiyan and frieza saga) and there's no problem with Goku being in character.
@@Peasham But Goku told him to heal up and go back to prison. He didn't tell Moro to get up and fight, he wanted Moro to surrender as he wasn't even a threat anymore (the fact he broke his arm punching Goku shows exactly that). Heck! Goku even tried convincing him to start training so he could become a worthy adversary later on.
It started strong. Once they got off Namek, it fell apart for me. So much so that I'm no longer interested to see where things go from here. Its all the same story beats we've seen. And in an age where there are plenty of new, exciting Manga doing new, exciting things, DragonBall refuses to change. Which is its biggest flaw right now: it can't let go of the past. It feels at times like the writers are saying "They loved it in DBZ, let's do it again!"
To their credit, if one wanted a compressed version of DBZ, they couldn’t have made a better one than the Moro arc.
The beginning setup? Namek saga. Heck, it is in this part some of the Z-fighters do some fighting, indicating Namek-level or even early Android-level strength of the Galactic Prisoners, mirroring how in Namek Gohan and Krillin had to hold down the fort until Vegeta came and then Goku.
How Moro went about until the release of the prisoners? Imperfect Cell arc.
After Moro destroyed New Namek (like in the Namek arc), they go and train to defeat a boss beyond them (like the first Future Trunks meeting-19 battle in Android Arc).
Moro succeeds in releasing prisoners and has new powers to draw from (Semi-Perfect Cell evolution).
Vegeta beats second form of Cell/Moro, but can’t stop third evolution from 7-3/18 absorption.
At least in the Moro Arc there is the 7-3/Vegeta battle, which at least means there is no 1-to-1 matchup (and even then, could be slotted as 17/Piccolo battle)
Goku can also defeat third and best version, but gives Moro/Cell a Senzu Bean after they have been beaten heavily for some strange (understandable) reason
The fight after the Senzu bean causes Goku’s/Merus’s death in order to weaken Cell/Moro.
The final form of Cell/Moro is caused by an explosion or loss of control of powers, causing them to become super big (Cell’s explosion/Moro’s being a planet) and then even more powerful (Super Perfect Cell/Moro’s becoming a planet).
A team effort is needed (Vegeta distracting Cell/Spirit bomb powered by all the Z Fighters and then Uub). At least Uub is introduced nicely and the method to take Moro down for good borrows from the Kid Buu arc. And in both cases Vegeta was required for the victory.
There couldn’t be a better way to sum up the plot of DBZ canonically if they tried.
Facts!!
The most disturbing thing is that z-characters population is hitting all time high. Already franchise is hardly giving screen time to all the z-characters and here we have another z-fighter with the name of uub. And there is 80% chances that broly will also join the team. I don't know what will happen to already present z-characters excluding goku.
Broly probably won't join the team
@@QuantumFishFTW not like living with them on the earth but he will share huge screen tume in future.(as i had already mentioned there are chances)
I forgot he was old looking
Right? That was ages ago!
Same I forgot he even used the dragon balls to wish for youth
@@the_real_idoit8166 He didn't wish for youth, he gained youth by absorbing life energy. He had 4 stages.
@DatrixTSW2012 (Spoilers) That was from eating android 73
Hes like a mixture of all old dragonball villains. The old dude which becomes young via dragonballs to get to their former glory. Sounds familiar? Demon King Piccolo did the same thing.
- Character
Dragon Ball, especially Super, has this problem of having all the characters act or say things according to the plot, and not based off their personality. Not only does it make their actions come off as odd and forced, but it also makes for clunky dialogue like we saw in the Moro Arc. It also keeps other characters from potentially being involved, because all their personalities are so one-note that there is no real way of differentiating the characters. It can't be stressed enough, give them distinct personalities and let these characters be characters.
If Dragon Ball nails down the personalities, style, and individuality of their characters, most of the other problems would naturally be fixed because of it. Dialogue would flow better, fight choreography would improve, each character would feel irreplaceable because of their distinct personality, the terrible comedy would get a much needed improvement, and the story and future potential stories would have a much natural flow. The characters of the story and who they are drive the plot, not the other way around. Fix this, and there might actually be hope for a new character taking AND KEEPING the mantle after the End of Z.
Them removing the old Moro design.
I thought the old design or his younger suited him more as someone who could manipulate and control most people.
plus Moro's Magic did help to make him stand out amongst most of the other Dragonball villains.
Whis just saying 'Ho' in that one image while looking into his staff probably made me laugh more than it should.
He’s a pimp
0:00 Old Man Moro looks way better than Perfect Cell-rip off Moro.
That thing pissed me off along with the ASSPULLS and Plot Armor. Plus, it is getting worse as DC and Marvel now.
Which is why I dropped Dragon Ball.
The bean fiasco nearly ruined the entire thing for me. Like you said, Goku was scared of Moros Ki, yet he thought to give him a second chance. Some might say "This is how Goku is" but the fact that they mentioned those creepy feelings should have been reason enough for him to not trust him. I bet he will do something exactly like this the next time he fights a bad guy....
The issue of this arc, is indeed that it could have been great, not just "ok" for the db standarts... there was a TON of potential, to give everyone something to do, and make Moro something more than just your standart db villain...
I hope chapter 67 WILL NOT ruin the only good good thing left of this arc, Meerus sacrifice...
sooooooo... who is gonna tell him about meruses revival?
@@nobodysixty96
Don't worry, I know it already. 👍
At least they did the minimal, and removed his being op from him, but overall... it wasn't enough to compensate.
Because from a narritive standpoint, removing his being op means nothing if he's not returning in the next arc anyway, and shall be casted aside regardless.
I guess he got too big for his job
Go big and...yeah he just got big.
@@MasakoX Go big and go Perfect Cell-like
@@OGrupxe *Cell-lite
3:56 Yardrats: "Oh wow you can grind meat on those abs."
The moment Moro stopped being a goat, this arc became Moronic
9:12 Cell: "I DID IT FIRST! YOU'RE NOT PERFECT!"
Anyone: *looks like Cell*
Goku: Hey I know you want to destroy Earth/Reality but here have a senzu bean
I absolutely believe that there was corporate influence involved at the end of the Moro arc. There’s just no way, he slipped up that bad. The beginning of the arc was way too good.
MARKETING!
They went for way too much Cell Saga fan service. It was like DB's version of Galactus before they obviously starting twisting this saga in Cell's image
2:12 Majinn Buu: "Buu says Kaio-Ken!"
Moro: "Kaio-what?" *gets punched in the face*
Majin Buu with Kaio-Ken would be as strong as kid buu with enough focus and training
@@blootube97 one of which buu never had and the other buu will never do again
Moro - no seriously... Kaio-what?
Majinn buu - Kaio-Crap
Moro - "I thought so" Punches buu
I Give the Moro Arc a 7/10
Chapter 61 was when it went downwards
It being above average is a win for Dragon Ball tbh
I'd say 6/10 due to that downward spiral.
What ruined it for me is the excessive dialog. Too many exposition being thrown around by characters to fill in manga chapters. Toriyama’s manga wouldn’t have this, it would have been action packed.
@@thecod2345 That would've been an awesome concept. I bet he would've been something like that if had the right writers handling him.
@@thecod2345 Yea no, this arc is an 8/10 or 7/10 for, its easily the best arc in the franchise since the Cell saga.
If Toyotaro *REALLY* needed Moro to look more humanoid, he should have looked it after he absorbed Meerus. Also I feel like Goku’s bean choice would make more sense if Moro was in his old form again, since he is so weak compared to Goku the sensual wouldn’t do to much.
This arc started off like Dark Souls and ended like Big Rigs.
The Chad Big Rigs.
Lol JK.
I loved the Moro Saga. It portrayed the best ram/goat/sheep villain ever....next to Toasty from Spyro.
Made me almost forget about Tirek...oops.
Yeah same I liked it to
You need to read more/watch more franchises,Moro isnt even on top 100
It's not my favorite I just like it I think it's ok in my opinion
@@makes58 He never said it was you moron, he just said he liked it.
I think if his design stayed the way it was then he took over the earth, I would of liked him a lot more. After he absorbed seven three and turned into his final form and turned into every other villain rolled into one made him boring, but the rest of the arch I really enjoyed
They could've made an other Design for Moro that would still look Goat-like after eating Seven-Three, and People would be much less Angry with it & just Roll with it. And I felt like Moro's Magic hasn't been used enough or at all after he Transformed
I'd Love to See him exploit more on his Magical abilities.
That would've been really nice to see two God Saiyans facing off against the Evil Goat-Warlock
Just another way Moro became a Cell clone. At least Moro used his absorption powers after 7-3’s absorption, and the end of the battle was a Kid Buu rehash. They really took us on a compressed trip of DBZ Namek saga-onward.
@@iantaakalla8180 why did he became cell clone ?
7-3 rhymes with Seventeen 😂 they should've done a different name tbh.
@@chrono2208 the character design looks so same
I bet everyone looking at that one moment in the manga immediately face-palmed, yelling out "Damn it Goku, I thought you learned from last time not to heal the enemy!"
What ruined it?
The writing
What ruined it ?
The fanbase.
@@chrono2208 how?
I have to wonder how many of these bad calls are also on Toriyama's part since he's helping Toyotaro or making suggestions. We like to blame Toyotaro for a lot of the rough bits when it comes to the Super manga due to him being the face of it.
But we can't forget how Jiren was originally going to be an over-the-top justice type that Toei was all in for, but Toriyama came in at the last second to say that Jiren should stay stoic and never speak much. This change (along with his past) made Jiren the most controversial character of the arc. Toriyama ain't exactly a spring chicken who has a good memory anymore either.
*thumbnail*
Moro: "Why am I drawn like I'm going to have a massive constipation?"
Vegeta's cheap defeat after all the hype of his training
Goku yet again inexplicably giving a bean to a Cell opponent
Avatar Goku's giant form
Avatar goku looks like a bit of deus ex machina, but hey maybe it's suggesting something about the nature of ultra instinct or the direction that the power scaling will go torwards!
Agree on the other two points, especially vegeta, it was cool for him to do a sorta genkidama but his contribution didn't felt as impactful
I actually don't mind the latter, was a neat gimmick.
obito kamui'd his way out of ninja heaven again and lent goku the Susanoo
As soon as I saw the susanoo I closed the tab and put my phone away.
Its his Kakarot Form, thank you
Its existence. That fan story about an evil angel from a resurrected universe destroyed by Zeno was better.
@DP91 Or, you know, *someone else* would've found something to complain about, because fandoms are huge and made up of many people with diverging tastes. There aren't, like, six Dragon Ball fans, or eight Star Wars fans for that matter, all constantly contradicting themselves.
@DP91 ever heard of perspective?
@DP91 yes because "everyone is the same and has the same tastes"
Let me guess, Vegeta took another L. As he always does. I didn’t even have to read this one
Sadly, he did.
@@rogue685 no he didn’t. Both Goku & Vegeta lost to Moro. You’re so ignorant. Without Vegeta, Goku would never finish moro
From a promising villain who used magical powers to defeat our heroes instead of brute strength to... *a blatant rip-off of Perfect Cell and Super Buu.*
Hmm, he had a good start and overall is a good villain...but pandering to the history of Dragon Ball is what stunted his potential.
If nothing else, the fight started as Perfect Cell and ended in Kid Buu. At least they are mixing their battles as if it was MGS4.
@@MasakoX Do you think we’ll _ever_ get over that? The biggest reason why everyone’s so excited for End of Z is because we want to see what Super could potentially be when it’s not restrained to the original story. It’s the Rubicon we’ve got to cross to reach uncharted territory, and we’re closer to it now than ever before.
@@MasakoX If he was truly a wizard, I actually expected him to act similar to Babidi in terms of combat. But he was yet another absorbing dude who was actually physically strong. Which is often the case for dbz villains is that they are super strong and fast, but not too many of them are weak and frail and rely on magical powers to defend themselves. I was expecting Moro to be what Babidi failed to be, which was an actual wizard and the good guys would have to think of other ways to defeat this foe, who would be like a Dr. Strange-like villain who really relied on many certain spells that would cause certain effects, instead of being just an evoker and absorber. Maybe he could have conjured some demons or used illusions or necromancy, possibly alteration, transmutation, enchanting, ect. There are many ways to do magic than just blow stuff up or absorb something. xD
2:34 Poor Shin, he never catches a break
Turning a Haxed Villain into a brawler and screeming Magic, Magic but showing not even a single magic that could make us say wow in the whole Manga. That's is the reason why this Arc got ruined and showing no goal, just think if he eat everything in the entire Universe then what he gonna rule and gonna eat after everything got absorbed, to make Moro a pure and true evil being they made Moro a boring Villain and character, Jiren also was boring in ToP but at least he have his own personal goal. This Arc was over predictable and those are the main reasons. This arc deserves only 5/5 because it was still entertaining and Chapter 63 was the best Chapter of this Arc.
Indeed. Just saying he had magic instead of USING magic more often really brought it down. Admittedly, him becoming a planet did bring it back to the upside.
@@MasakoX It's overly disappointing but thanks to the fighting scenes of this Arc that made it exciting and also because of the hype by Vegeta which later got ruined and Perfect Ultra Instinct which created curiosity.
@AXEL The next Stan Lee Tracking the Dragon Ball without tracker, absorbing life energy and using the Planet as weapon if they called it magic than it really the most stupid thing ever even Fu from SDBH have more Hax and abilities which he prefer more than hand to hand fighting.
Lava Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Comet Summoning, Long Distance Memory Analysis, Consumption and Fusion, Physical Illusions, Ki-Less Flight, Life Energy Absorption, Planet Life Energy Manipulation, Energy Distribution, Telekinesis, Scanning: Dragon Ball Sensing, Planet Fusion, Earth Manipulation and Possibly Lightning Creation.
@@AstraFulminous If you call it Magic then I am sorry. Half of this things all ready many people did in Dragon Ball.
I was surprised so many people did not notice the clear similarities between him and King Piccolo. Elderly demon-like character, getting his youth and full power back from wishes from a dragon, releasing criminals, beats the heroes the first time, was imprisoned for many years, ect. Plus I feel the saga could have ended pretty quickly if Goku and Vegeta fused into SSB Gogeta. Did people forget that they can fuse at will now? xD Who needs Ultra Instinct when you can fuse and become stronger than a god of destruction? Or at least recruit Broly from the start.
I think after the Broly movie, it should have ended, at least as far as galactic threats go. Then the final part should have been Goku and Vegeta going up against Beerus this time, but fuse into Gogeta to see if they truly surpassed Beerus when Beerus is at his absolute maximum. Imagine that, if they fought in a similar manner like with Broly, with the music and animation. That or if after training, Goku attains his UI form again and challenges Beerus by himself, so that he can defeat the god in a fair fight by himself instead of relying on fusion.
Are you dumb or did you forget Moro’s techniques.
The thumbnail be like: When you're trying to hold your poop in for a full hour.
(And you're waiting for the bathroom to clear out so u can go.)
Community: Moro Saga REVIEW
Actual Video: What RUINED The Moro Saga
*MasakoX* *is* *SUS*
"Toei, get off your high horse and animate this saga". Is there something going on with the mange v anime scene? 0.o
Well most of their key animators are working on One Piece and Dragon Quest Dai right now
@@unknownvariable9239 thats good to hear
"It was a crazy noisy bizarre ride"
Nice Jojo reference, Masako
(Crazy Noisy Bizarre Town - 1st DIU op)
Stop makeing jojo reffrence
NO
There's always time for a Jojo reference
We just putting the scenes they from like bible verses now huh
@@xxxdragonlordgamerxxx3701
Yare yare daze.
"crazy noisy bizarre ride"... WAS THAT A JOJO REFERENCE!???
I know Right?
I'm voting you off for playing slither. IO
JOJO
Yes
YEs
YES
yeS
yES
Naw it was a digimon refrence
I said it and I will say it again , I think moro should have been an actual old man in the way he thinks/talks even when he restored his youth again .
Yamcha needs to make a comeback and introduce a new form
The buffed form master roshi uses perhaps? If not then describe the form and I will criticize it if need be maybe a form like where he grows ki on his hands like boxing gloves but if he uses it too much he would either burn his hand very badly or make his ki control terrible
@@codyhahn2013 exactly.
Has a kanji meaning „Wolf warrior“ on his back. The kanji is Red . With glowing red claws and Lightening. He can create weapons out of key
Krillen the same only instead of Wolf. Warrior he has ˋˋTurtle Warrior“ has a ki turtle shield
Tien Similar only his third eye Glowing and he has the kanji Krane warrior
He Has Telekinetic and Telephatic powers.
Each of the Super human forms has A Ascended and Ultimate forms.
Krillins kanji is blue
Tines yellow
"This arc is great!" should have given me deja vu to when I said that about the Zamasu arc. I had no worries about it getting ruined at the last moment. But why. Why did I not see this coming. How many times do I have to learn this lesson?
But on the plus side, it really was right at the end and dealt with quickly enough I guess. It's just... It's like someone bringing in this huge cake and then stumbling as they get to the table, and then afterwords saying "yeah but it was easy to clean up." That's not a real positive. As soon as they turned Moro into Cell, everything after that was cleanup. It was the ruined cake already. It's really damn painful knowing how CLOSE it came to being perfect, instead of being perfect Cell.
What I want to see in the anime adaptation of the Moro saga, is that they would fix the issues the manga suffered from. Have Vegeta fight with Goku rather then Goku facing Moro alone, have Moro steal the senzu beans rather then Goku giving him a bean, have Goku actually learn something, have Moro not be like Cell or Buu in terms of of personality when he reaches to his new forms.
The Moro Saga is what I would call a "almost perfect arc." It could have been the best Dragon Ball arc in ages if it just weren't for those flaws.
I think the entire galactic prisoner thing was a bit of a waste over all, and I don't think it added much (if anything) to the arc other than stretching it out.
As has been said repeatedly, the wish itself was a disappointment, but on top of that, none of the prisoners were overly memorable or fun, existing basically just to say "look, something for the 3rd stringers to do". The only one who had any real impact was 73....but it was with a derivative design, powers we've seen before, and facilitated another moment people didnt like, that being Moro's design change.
If Moro's little mook squad had been better, the middle section of the arc would have felt less like padding between Moro fights.
It's a shame, since minions are some of the best types of antagonists in a story. They give us insights to how the main villain interacts with others, and they offer up different personalities and powers to utilize.
Moro's wish to free all of the galactic prisoners was actually GENIUS.
He realized that only Goku and Vegeta got to do something in the arc until that point, so he made that wish so that the rest of the cast could beat up generic goons. Like they always do during any arc of Super.
Moro is such a gentle soul
It seems like toriotaro just went with the first idea he thought of to end the arc "moro becomes the earth, thats a conflict!"
Vegeta learning sucking fingers on yardrat instead of something cool...
Moro turning into a planet
Gokus perfect susano
None of these should ever have happened.
I personally wish that Goku's failure was similar to Gohan's in the Cell Games. He wants to make Moro suffer, so he doesn't give him a senzu or finish him off immediately. That way, we can have Moro use his cunning to get his arm back, and still power up. Goku can still have made a mistake, but it wouldn't be as nearly egregious because it wouldn't invalidate Merus's sacrifice, or at least not in the way the senzu did. Anyway, great video as always Masako
This is a minor thing but I loved that Moro turned into a grotesque monster at the end. I can't think of anything else in dragonball that was so eerie and creepy looking, only thing that comes to mind is Imperfect-Cell drinking people.
We need a Vegeta centric arc Toyotaro, asking for friends.
Love your content, Masako.
My deepest wish is that I'd get to hear more of your perspective on subjects such as this video.
I'm a weirdo that likes hours and hours of thoughts and opinions, and you're so very clear spoken for me.
Keep up the superb work you super chad.
I lost interest near the beginning when Moro's secret wish was revealed to be "release my minions from prison". The way they tied in Buu and the former Supreme Kai, I thought they were setting up Buu to be evil again,
The senzu for Moro was so bad lmao at least the bean for cell made some sense and wasn’t when he was defeated
If Goku just stood there talking to Moro, literally the *exact* same thing would have happened. The senzu had no role in the story progression.
It made no sense at all for Cell as well. Goku was just a douchebag then
Well done as always! Would love to have you back on the podcast to talk about this topic in the not so distant future.
Honestly this arc feels more fanfic than actual fanfictions
lofi -
I mean it is written by a fan soooooooooo
Make shin do his job?
Yeah we'd sooner get Goku marrying Bulma
Might I suggest "what held back the Moro saga" as the title? "Ruined" is a little doomsayer-y and not entirely accurate.
This ⬆️ But clickbait sells more, so…
Personally, I feel like the title fits, but that's just me.
No he's right. It was ruined.
It definitely is ruined completely.
It got ruined for me when vegeta didn't just drive a fist through moro on namek to finish him.
What happened is that Dragon Ball has lost its soul. It is now a means to sell merchandise.
It was always a mean to sell merchandise... that’s how all of that works.
@@LuisBrito-ly1ko I mean, yeah, but this... This is much, much worse.
@@ditto7047
I disagree. The difference between then and now in terms of marketing is that now it’s easier to sell merchandise.
Lack of organization, this transition period from Toriyama to Toyotaro, older fans being harder to impress or attract, and the new laws of censorship in Japan is what really is holding back Super.
PICCOLO should have become the ultimate support. He literally all ready knows magic. This arc could have been his time to become relevant again.
All magic? No. He knows of Namekian Magic, which boils down to changing clothes.
@@emmanuelreid7726 THE changing clothes
So pretty much, aight, with plenty of flaws with some highs. Sounds like Dragon Ball yeah
Yep
When you copy the tropes of a villian who's thing was copying others.
This was personally my favorite arc of Super, and I think Moro is definitely up there as one of my favorite villains of the franchise.
This saga was basically the force awakens same plot just different characters
... _how???_
@@astraldirectrix not exactly as the force awakens just a retold of the original saga with different charaters like the force awakens was new hope and the moro arc is just a mess of the namek saga and cell saga
@@mclekfkeiwdisidido6858 That feels very superficial, don't you think?
The list of reasons why this arc went downhill is quite long for me
Great job as always
Dude. I'm glad I found your channel.
Freeing all the prisoners may help with future villains.. Or not, with the way DB is, they forget almost every cool character.
Why use anyone else when you have the village idiot do it all named Goku!?
Let’s hope the anime is different enough to salvage this arc.
I thought the same with Fairy Tail Final Season but it disappointed me
You say that like the arc was a total disaster, like seriously it wasn't that bad
@@kingkurok3149 in general, sure. But as someone that's been invested in the franchise for over 20yrs, it felt like they eagerly abandoned everything different and unique about the arc as soon as Moro absorbed 73. Also, the bait and switch with Vegeta was unforgivable considering how thoroughly they were setting him up to finally get a win over a major villain. That level of disrespect to a major character was the final nail in the coffin for my interest in anything Super related going forward.
@@Thuazabi well maybe that was out of the writers control, maybe Toriyama or Toei intervened
And again we got more good than bad
Also Vegeta was a key component to winning this battle, just like Uub and Jaco
@@kingkurok3149 TBH, Vegeta fans don't care about that. Vegeta has been number 2 forever, they just want him to have a solo win and THEN they'll be satisfied. At least, that's what I observed.
The first half of the Moro arc was incredible. Sadly the second half couldn't live up to the hype
Let me count the ways...
- A cool villain made into a bland Super Buu/Perfect cell who absorbs others
- Forced powerscaling and a complete disregard for other characters not named Goku or Vegeta
- Copying several Z elements including a character dying to compell goku to transform
- Waaaaaay too long
- Writing Vegeta as the fall guy of the arc and just giving him Goku's training arc abilities like instant transmission and some dumb spirit abilities
- Actively making beerus a neglectful and badly written character
- New characters introduced with no real nuance
- B E A N S
- Rendering UI a complete joke by not only making goku learn it instantly, but also giving us another character who can use it to the same level if not better.
I wouldn't say UI was a complete joke as Goku was still able to hold his own against Moro even after he gave him a senzu. He did get overwhelmed in the final final fight as Moro was draining his energy
@@marckidgames5259 I meant it was made a joke cos its lost all significance now. It took Goku 1 arc to master this godlike form that not even beerus has mastered, and another character just...has it like its nothing. It suffered the same fate as Super Saiyan, just give it to everyone and it loses its value
@@origamininja380 if you're talking about Merus having UI then it makes sense because he's an angel. If you're talking about Moro then it'll be true but if you remember he couldnt handle the Angel's power. So technically not counting the Angels only Beerus and Goku know UI
For me it was that Sensu Bean moment, I let everything else slide in the Moro arc but it almost lost me until the ending redeemed it.
None of you guys paid attention to the scene. The senzu played no role in advancing the story. The same thing would have happened if Goku just talked Moro.
That’s my problem with it: It was absolutely stupid, Goku put the Earth in danger once again despite the threat of Moro being subdued and it made Merus’s sacrifice almost pointless.
@@RogueFox2185 So your problem is simply with Goku not finishing Moro, not specifically the senzu. Goku giving villains chances is just in his nature. You should have predicted that as a DB fan. But yes, it was a spit in Merus's face.
If Goku was gonna spare him at the very least he could have knocked him out and send him to the Patrol, him sparing Moro would be fine as long as he’s no longer a threat but the Sensu just pissed me off because of all the work they did to bring him down in the first place.
@@RogueFox2185 As I explained, literally the exact same thing would have happened without the senzu. The problem was ultimately Goku standing around talking to him.
Good thing this bootleg King Piccolo/Cell villain and his arc is over
Thanks for detailing
I also didn't know why it started to feel like it wasn't worth it anymore
What annoys me the most out of anything with the arc is that they just went straight into Goku getting UI down and being able to do it at will. That should’ve been something that was built up much longer.
I was expecting some deaths and some real stakes where Goku broke mentally. Goku just suddenly managed to master UI when the plot demanded, same with Vegeta and Ultra Instinct
I wish TeamFourStar would come back and dub the anime of this arc (if it happens).
Wishful thinking though
Moro stupid transformation to Cell 2.0 was really lame
12:09 Kars: "YOU DARE CHALLENGE ME, THE REAL ULTIMATE LIFE FORM?!" *poses menacingly*
If this arc gets transferred over to anime, I am excited to see them try to fix some of the things that went wrong.
What ruined the Moro Saga? ..
Toxic fanbase I guess .
It did have its problems to be fair, its just that the fanbase COMPLETLEY blows them out of proportion.
@Buff Character Oh shut up, Piccolo, Gohan and the other Z-fighters were used more in this arc than in every other arc in the entire franchise since the Cell saga. I'd even argue that they were more relevent here than in the Cell saga, I don't remember Piccolo doing anything in the Cell saga.
@Buff Character Are you kidding? They carried the plot for the first half, even Yamcha won a fight for the first time since original DB. Piccolo didn't get any transformation in the Cell saga, that was the andiroid saga. Everyone was completley useless in the Cell saga except for Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, and kinda tien. Moro arc is defintiely the best representation of the characters since Namek saga maybe or the andriod saga at best.
@Buff Character Like I already stated, the side characters in this arc were more relevent than they have been in ages. I also wish that they give Piccolo a new transformation, but I wouldn't call the entire arc trash just because he didn't. Thats like saying DBS Broly is trash because side characters weren't relevant.
@Buff Character Yep, just like I thought, you are delusional. First of all, the cell saga is different from the andiroid saga as it was an entire new villain and an entire new goal for the heroes to achieve. The arc changed from a stop the bad andiroids to a tournament arc. By the time cell arrives, andriod 19 and 20 are long forgotten. In the Cell saga and Buu saga, Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien, Krillin and literally every side character did nothing. Even if you do argue that the Cell saga is the same as the andiroid saga, the only difference is that Piccolo fought a few people. It doesn't change my point that the vast majority of the side characters did nothing at all. The Moro saga actually has those side characters doing stuff, even Piccolo. From what I'm reading, you just want the side characters to get meaningless new forms like some fan ficiton, you probably want Krillin to get Ultra Instinct or something. What do you mean they should get new transformations to justify their powerups? No one has even powered up at all, Gohan is simply strong from the training he did before the Tournament of Power, Piccolo is the same, and the rest of the characters aren't even stronger than they were in previous arcs, they are more or less the same. How is Goku's personality underdeveloped in the Moro arc, are you crazy? We are actually seeing Goku's true nature in the Moro arc, the perfect definition of what is his personality is supposed to be. I'm assuming by underdeveloped personality, you are referring to him giving Moro a senzu bean, but how is that an example of him being underdeveloped, especially compared to the Buu arc? Do you realize that the ENTIRE Buu arc happened because Goku didn't finish Majin Buu upon first meeting him? Moro arc Goku is way better, we actually see development from Goku because he actually tries to TALK with a villain and understand them because of what Merus taught him throughout the arc. Merus taught him that a true galatic patrol officer's role is to reform villains and bad people, and Goku applies Merus's teachings on Moro. When Goku spared people in the past, it was ENTIRELY different. He gave a senzu bean to piccolo just because Piccolo gave him a good fight. He spared Vegeta for the selfish reason of getting to fight him again later. He gave Cell a senzu bean for the selfish reason of getting to see Cell push Gohan to his limits. He spared Buu and started the entire Buu arc just so he could see goten and trunks beat Buu by themselves. In the Moro arc, Goku isn't being selfish for the first time, he isn't sparing Moro for anything to do with himself, he is doing it for Merus and because Merus genuinly convinced him that everybody can change. Merus played a role similar to Kami, after training with Kami Goku also developed a sense of justice and morality like he did after training with Merus. That is why Goku spared Piccolo and even trusted Raditz and gave Frieza a second chance on Namek. Sparing his opponents is nothing new for Goku, the only difference is that now he isn't doing it out of selfishness like he did before.
If anything I would rather have vegeta being the hero this time just this once
Remember when the villain ate an android and became a lot stronger with a more human appearance?
Remember when the villain was also able to fight with the copied abilities of the Z warriors?
Remember when a warrior's life had to be given up in order for the hero to become powerful?
Remember when Goku gave the villain a senzu bean in order to have a fair fight?
Remember when the villain tried to destroy the Earth because he was vastly outmatched?
I had high hopes for this arc, but it ended up being short and copying too much from the previous ones, predominantly the cell arc
What irks me the most is that we’ve seen what Toyotarō can do when he writes an original story. I thought his AF manga was really good, even though it had to end early. I’m not saying this was a terrible arc or anything, but there was definitely way to much fan service because Toriyama wants to make everything unoriginal and bland. But hey, gotta make money some how, even if everyone’s against you.
The ending of this arc really EXPANDED my mind on things.
Outside of the bean situation alot of the issues with this arc are overblown it feels the most like dragon ball z since the buu arc .
I mean. It’s literally just other dbz arcs, but worse.
@@thats4thebirds Not at all, this is the best dragon ball arc in the franchise since Cell saga.
@@jantheking7028 that's some massive cap
@@tenryuublackrose2176 It's true, don't even say that Buu arc or Goku Black arc was better than this. Those arcs were good, this was way better. ToP was pretty good too, but lacked emotional value and longstanding consequences, which makes this arc better.
they created a character that basically removed the concept of "winning just cause of power level/transformation/spirit bomb", and promise to have a fun fight like in original dragonball, where it was more about technique than power.
Then they win just cause "power level/transformation/spirit bomb"
This was promising. Moro became a very intense, powerful villain. It just couldn't quite stick the landing.
I think it did.