Wow, that was an extensive essay, thanks for your insight! I remember leaving the cinema with my friends being very disappointed. They all loved the film, I was annoyed. It's interesting how a poor ethos (character) in a work such as Avatar not only conveys a lesser (moral) message but in the end it produces defective "art". Here you can see that there is no resolution of the deeper conflict: the humans are pushed away by force to either invade other worlds or to return more heavily armed (or to face extinction as you noticed), the "natives" can't keep on living the same way so their "balance" by force has to tip (the interconnection of human action that you mentioned). Actually, now with that prelude, the sequel could give a better historical perspective, but that wouldn't make a better product by it self. An artist need deeper knowledge of the human nature to provide a better tension/conflict to the work that in time will resonate with the spectator as it resolves. Sadly, when ideology covers the roots of the conflict (as it happens in Avatar and many others) you get cheesy, bloated, nonsensical works that neither entertain nor provide a valid moral understanding. As Pilgrim pointed The Last Air bender shares a simplistic view regarding the campaign of the fire nation. One might defend how it makes sense in the setting and from a world building standpoint (though I don't fully agree). It was pretty cheesy, as the Fire Lord as an antagonist to Aang (a cardboard dark lord archetype). But the conflict of the work (luckily) wasn't there, that's why the other Avatar worked (at least with me). Sorry, didn't mean to post a second essay here, just wanted to add to the discussion . Thanks for your content, Pilgrim!
while ATLA can be called simplistic, it had its moments of maturity. Examples include Zuko and Azula's sincere character arcs, the fact that the fire soldiers and schools thought they were bringing prosperity to the world, the propaganda in the Fire Nation and Ba Sing Se, Jet and Hama's origin stories, motivations and subsequent actions, he clash of the two tribes, General's Fong's motivation, Wa Shi Tongs' disdain to humanity, the revelation that firebending is meant to be a tool for good, with the example of the Sun Warrors, (who weren't more moral than the imperalists, they just wanted peace), the fact that a genocide was shown in a kid's show, the sins of the Earth Kingdom, particulary in Ba Sing Se, the clash between Toph and her dad, Pakku's change of heart, Roku's and Kyoshi's mature reasoning, Long Feng's and the Dai li's motivation, the cabbage merchant's misfortunes, Aang's overlooked kills, and Ty Lee and Mei's motivation for sticking with Azula, (let us not forget the Ember Isles beach episode). The show showed that it was not all Fire Nation bad, rest of the world good, The its graphic novels and its less-beloved sequel series did the conflict of ideologies and moral complexity better though. As for the Fire Lord, well, there are some people who are born pychopaths and sociopaths. In the end, all nations were spared of destruction, though the graphic novels showed the hatred understandibly still remained. Overall, ATLA is still a great show, and does a relatively better job at this level of moral understanding than most children's cartoon shows.
@@flynnwhimster5371 it had really weird moments like how zuko is able to just claim the throne despite being a national traitor to his country and definitely not in the line of succession any more. And he is able to somehow be able to tell all of the military that they are forsaking 100 years of conquests. And not get over thrown
@@flynnwhimster5371 If I may clarify myself: what to my view point was the trope of the "evil empire" that the fire nation portrayed in the show. You are right that the last air bender has some mature themes (such as a state that lies to the children in the classrooms, or the repression and invisibilisation of descent etc). Though I must say that mature themes and narrative simplicity aren't mutually exclusive, the show is great in many aspects. The only thing that doesn't work in the same level, is the fire nation/lord that as an antagonist lacks the depth that the show has in many other regards. Thanks for keeping the discussion going, I don't have many other venues to talk about this, so I enjoy reading and answering (though I know it might take some time ^^;;)
@@sychuan3729 I honestly think that works. If you go by the apparent timeline of the movie, he's only *been* there for a very short while before being asked to take sides; I can't really blame him for essentially going "Mate, I just got here. I'm still trying to figure out what's going on."
@@MagnusVictor2015 It would be OK, if he wasn't shown like some kind of hero who explains to stupid people that they need not live in hate. But it was obvious for everybody. Does he provide any real advice? what Eboshi should have done to "not live in hate"? Does he helped people with lepra, does he helped former prostitutes who were now living in Eboshi city?
In an interview, Miyazaki pointed out something simple yet profound "Humans find things in nature that are useful for them and try to protect those things. But nature is brutal and unforgiving and has so many things that are not useful to us humans." Its one of the reasons why the animals/creatures in Mononoke are not cute or have cuddly features to them. They are savage, creepy but also majestic and dignified.
@@treee6145 i dont exactly remember in which reference he said it but his points are visible in both Nausicaa and Mononoke. He never tried to sugarcoat the brutality of nature. In a way, Mononoke was his spiritual sequel to Nausicaa.
Very cool. Reminds of what Heidegger had to say about our relationship with technology, and thus with nature. The irony is that Princess Mononoke explores this more than a giant sci-fi with mechs, interplanetary travel, body-swap chambers etc.
everything in nature is trying to kill you. we've just gotten better and better at surviving by defeating nature. but people want some environmental utopia, not realizing how many people will die in that utopia from what would have been avoidable and preventable causes.
@@hundredfireify I don't know about infinity war, sure thanos is the big bad but his motivations and character were far more damning than any other villain in the MCU
@@hundredfireify Also, if Thanos’s plan was to halve ALL life in the universe, wouldn’t that include animals? (And possibly plants, if he halved all organic life, I don’t remember if he specified sentience or not.) So, like. He’s trying to solve limited resources, but he just wiped out half the livestock, too? It’s just such a stupid plan.
@@hundredfireify facts, dumbest plan ever. If he was so concerned about a lack of resources why not just snap in double, triple, quadruple resources instead of snapping away half the universe's population.
As a little note: The Na'vi are way too idealized, and there are deleted scenes in Avatar where they're a bit more bloody. These scenes were literally deleted to over-idealize the blue people.
Tbf, in the movie, we see Jake's future baby mama about to murder him with a neurotoxin for trespassing while obviously lost and trying to fight off predators. It's only when her "god" steps in that she decides not to kill him.
I remember a videogame based on Avatar, and when you choose to play as human, Na'Vi are not just ideal tribesmen but savage beasts who will wipe out research facilities full of unarmed harmless scientists who were just studying plants and don't blink an eye
@@pffpffovich2398 The Avatar game added a lot to the lore. I loved the game and got all endings including the one where you choose to side with the Na'Vi as a human. Even when your a Na'Vi they are still complete dick heads and Harper makes you want to strangle his ass. The General also had his character change in a much more positive way as well.
There's so many deleted scenes that should have received priority over the kitty-kitty-bang-bang. There is also a good explanation for why the humans are so desperate for unobtainium. I don't recall the details now, but it was the key to saving Earth.
@Malice To be fair, a lot of people with this mindset have it because they have been misguided by the media, for example one of the characters in the Matrix says humans are the only creature that don't strive for an equilibrium with the environment and there's a whole part about how if you put humans in an ideal world they'll destroy it, which is ironic considering we're the only species to try to limit our damaging behaviour for the sake of wildlife and mice were put in a utopia for an experiment and they ended up turning on each other, truth is, all animals would because it's a survival instinct to find problems, because they we can solve them and be more likely to survive, heck, that's even why rich and privileged people complain about things that don't matter, their brains are trying to find problems for survival but they can't find any legitimate ones so they have to complain about mundane things.
Indeed, I've brought that up to many a person. IF we are merely evolved animals like any other, is this not our world as much as it is there? Are we not just fitting into nature where we've carved out our place like all the other animals?
Yeah, I've noticed a lot of movies are like that. Like Witcher the monsters are all sympathetic, but the humans are seen as a black and white morality.
Lol but humans are for the most part bad. Avatar is not ground breaking by any means but at least that part was and always will be true. Princess Mononoke is a beautifully animated film but I found myself annoyed with the protagonist.
I really like when Ashitaka falls unconscious and the wolf straight up goes to rip his head off, no fancy "we're all friends now" crap, they were holding back only because their sister ordered them to
Dude his head was in that wolf's mouth for like a full second and a half and he got in like 2 or 3 head shakes and he came out of that unscathed. Funniest part of the whole movie and it comes outta nowhere.
Not to mention Sans own wolf mother outright telling Ashitaka *"I was hoping you'd cry out in your sleep. Then I would've bitten your head off to silence you."* While he's recovering under San's watch. The forest creatures (save for the kodama cuz they're sweet lil beans) make it clear that they *do not like him AT ALL* and if not for his good deeds toward saving San from Iron Town and putting down Nago and San's own protection he would have been dead 10 times over by the very same forest creatures. And he doesn't take it personally, in fact I dare say he takes it all in stride, in his eyes they have every reason to not like or even trust him as humans have brought them nothing but pain, destruction, misery and hardship.
One of the many things I love about Mononoke is the fact that, despite the ending being so open, the conflict still ongoing, so many threats still active, it is distinctively *not* a sad ending. It's a hopeful one.
I disagree, Mononoke is a definitely pessimistic movie, Ashitaka tries his best to make peace but ultimately fails, the forest, nature, the old ways, are all definitely fucked. The god of nature is dead, and while there is a small hope that the trees might come back, but Iron Town will start up again and continue natural resource extraction at full steam. Miyazaki made Mononoke in his post-marxist period. Lady Eboshi's Iron Town is an egalitarian industrial society represents the marxist utopia, while the monetary interests of the emperor, samurai, and mercenaries represent the western capitalist powers. Iron Town is portrayed as being ethically superior alternative to western capitalism, but, as egalitarian as it is, it is still fundamentally incompatible with the natural world. The industrial mode of production, no matter how egalitarian it might be, means doom for the environment.
@@wangana5955 I also disagree: at the end it's implied that Lady Eboshi wants to try again with Iron Town, this time having Ashitaka around to make sure they follow a path that respects nature. Maybe it's a bit unrealistic, but I think that's where the hope lies in the ending.
@@wangana5955Isn't what spurns iron town to overconsume and become incompatible with nature the fact the western imperial forces exist to push them that way?
@@FateBringsMe2U the japanese empire forced iron town to grow technologically, forcing them to burn the forests for iron. If the animal gods worked with iron town to fend off the empire, I'm sure things could've worked out better for them both.
@@realsanmer Umm did we watch the same movie? She’s looking to do better this time, that’s the only thing anyone can ask of her, she has a duty to her people, a duty that has only grown now that the lepers have been cured, the fact that she’s not leading everyone into that forest to burn it to the ground is a true victory for the side of peace, instead she’s trying to find the balance between respecting the forest and helping her people that’s what we call character growth and a happy ending.
Mononoke does what Avatar failed to do: take the man vs nature story with an unbiased perspective. Ashitaka doesn't just blindly side up with nature simply because of an attractive wolf girl, he understands both sides and tries to get them to understand each other.
When addressing the anti-colonialism narrative, I love bringing up the Tlaxcalans. You know, the people that were systematically harvested for human sacrifices. *They joined the Spanish almost instantly to help take down the Aztecs. There were more Tlaxcalan fighters than Spanish!*
Similar things happened here in the Inkan Empire. Several tribes or descendents of tribes under Inka rule immediately joined the Spanish. Some people view them as traitors, but it was their path to freedom from a tyrannical regime
@@thekinginyellowmessiahofha6308 it was mostly oppressed peoples fighting an evil empire, with help from another evil empire that would immediately replace the original evil empire.
To be fair with The Last Airbender, the show ended up subverting the whole narrative it established in the beginning with the Fire Nation being cartoon villains. In season 1, we were introduced to Jet, who ended up being a fanatical "freedom fighter" willing to slaughter a whole town of innocent civilians, and in Seasom 2 it was the Dai Lee of Ba Sing Se, which was more or less just the Gestapo with a little bit of KGB/CIA mixed in with that MK Ultra type s**t they were doing. And season 3 spent nearly its entire length giving perspective from the Fire Nation's side, showing us that there were plenty of good people within the Fire Nation living under a totalitarian regime, as well as of course giving us the conclusion of Zuko's redemption arc. We also gotta remember that everyone's favorite Uncle Iroh was once a Fire Nation general that besieged Ba Sing Se, and it was only the death of his son (a death that occurred during the said siege he was responsible for) that led to his disillusionment with the Fire Nation leadership and the war it was waging.
I'm sick and tired of the fools who insist that humans are the "most evil creature" or something, that no other creature would do what we do and they all live in balance. Great to hear someone finally say that yeah, as countless invasive species have shown, animals naturally exploit for their own benefits; the reason they "live in balance" is because even the apex animals have sufficient opposition that they can't get the sort of upper hand humans have. It's basically a race that wasn't designed to be won. Somehow, we won, but the great power and control that we won requires an equal amount of care and caution. With great power comes great responsibility. I know it's cliche, but that doesn't mean it isn't a fundamental truth.
Nature is an equilibrium. Opposing forces of predator/prey and similar competing relationships push against each other until neither can go any further. People mistake this as some kind of self-imposed balance, but they are completely wrong. If one side goes away, then the other side keeps going, filling the vacuum, until it hits another opposing force strong enough to stop it.
There were a bunch of monkeys in UP i think they took human babies and threw them off windows while they assaulted the parent and the people who commented on the news were like humans are evil we stole their homes now they want it back its natural for them to wipe out their competition And honestly i was so disgusted by the comment.
But humans ARE most evil, because only humans know what "evil" is. They do evil knowing they do it. The animals don't have any morality systems, but people do have them. That's the difference.
As an Indigenous American man, thank God another Human understands these concepts/differences. Thank you for making this video. That line has always resonated with me; eyes unclouded by hate. I wish more would spend their lifes work in persuit of that.
You're not a native "American". You're native to a small region of a land mass. Natives from one region of that land mass attacked others who were native to other regions of the same land mass. I am not native to all of Europe, I am native to a small region of a land mass that shares a cold climate with the rest of the land mass.
@@VladTepes-SaviorofEurope-mw4uy The Injuns are indigenous Americans, as are the descendants of the Pilgrim Fathers. Just like how both the Celts and the Anglo-Saxons are indigenous Britons. It's only the DEcolonists who aren't welcome.
This self hate of the West is really harming because it gets in the way of the solution. I am also from South America, here many of the indigenous people hate more the descendants of the spanish rather than the spanish themselves. This is because the spanish actually tried to preserve indigenous culture and incorporate them into their society (though they failed a lot). However, after the independence, many states bagan a campaign of genocide towards the native americans. Even today, what many of the indigenous people want is to have access to the western medicines and educational system, not to be left alone without assistance. How can James Cameron spread stupid messages like that when so many people on both sides died tying to accomplish Ashitaka's mission? It really shows how much he disrespects the cultures he supposedly wants to help.
Yea, if there's one things the natives in most cases wanted it was guns and medicine. The Navee ignoring any material trade even if it would make their lives easier and longer lived is unrealistic. Chances are they would have taken the guns and medicine to fight their neighbours over hunting rights, while humanity used the proxy war to extract resources. Then it's short sightedness leading to issues as relations with the Navee broke down over territorial control.
its white saviourism at its finest and a rehashing of pocahontas, which in and of itself is a racist revisionist story that omits that pocahantas was pretty much a child sex slave kidnapped, conditioned, and put on display by john smith (absolute nonce)
Same here in Mexico. In 1821 after the war of independence, only 1/4 of the population spoke Spanish. The independent government systematically destroyed indigenous culture, took away indigenous people's lands and rights, displaced them from their homes and communities... And the government's response to this day is blame what happened 500 years ago for what they are causing and defending _now._ The Spaniards were no saints, but they weren't the biggest threat to the indigenous people. Why the fuck else would they have joined them against the Mexica empire? And even then, that war was not the "systematic genocide" everyone believes... It was almost entirely a war between local communities... And Montezuma's royal family got the chance to flee to Spain, where his descendants still live to this day.
"I guess what Jake Sully needed was a hot human female on the Industrial side, that way he would have the incentive to _not lead a race war."_ So accurate it hurts
Humanity's first interstellar war really could've been avoided if Quaddarch (military guy, don't know how to spell his name) had given Jake genetically engineered human catgirl cheeks.
Another cool thing about this movie is that Ashitaka's village appears to be in what I presume to be Iron age technologically and Jomon culturally speaking, while Mononoke lives in a more Neolithic style and Lady Iboshi and Irontown living in the sengoku period, adding to Ashitaka's middle of the road perspective.
@@carissaap7003 yes! Otherwise Irontown would not be in that level of development as their enemies but I mean how it looked like for our three human main characters.
I always thought it interesting that Ashitaka's infection/curse seemed to make him more powerful on the occasions where he had to use violence, but every use made the infection/curse worse. Even when he was defending himself or saving villagers, simply using violence let the infection spread a little more. And even at the end, when he was healed, he still wasn't completely cured and that small amount of curse was left literally in his hands.
Goes to show that the people that say "violence is not the answer!" are slightly wrong. Violence is a valid answer, and one that can work very well in certain cases, but it always takes a part of you, it's never for free. In Ashitaka's case, it was made very clear, as it would lead the hatred of the curse to consume him faster. That's also an interesting way to see it, as even he, the hero of the story, would still be consumed by the hatred, even if he really fought it out with all his will. That is because he's human. While we can slow down the curse of hatred or even minimize it like how it happened with him at the end, it will never disappear. We just have to be strong to never let it overcome us.
@@Burn_Angel “You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you’re capable of great violence, if you’re not capable of violence you’re not peaceful, you’re harmless”
No, peaceful is the correct term. Thus the phrase 'Walk softly with a very big stick", and the other phrase: 'It is the quiet one that will get you'.@@Burn_Angel
@@BrokensoulRider The first phrase represents a pacifist very well. The second one, though, doesn't imply peace at all, it just means "You'll get sneak attacked".
My grandmother is Cherokee. I have always hated Avatar for its noble savage bs. The Cherokee had slaves before Columbus, and fought for the Confederacy in the US Civil War. The one thing this analysis missed, and it is otherwise perfect, is that indigenous people often embraced the colonizer's technology and aspects of the colonizer's culture. Where are the pro-human Na'vi using human technology? In the mind of the people who made avatar, native culture is completely reduced to "being one with nature," to the point they think you're not indigenous enough if you, idk, prefer computers to trees. I hate camping. That doesn't make me less Cherokee.
See the second movie. Navi are stealing humans weapons and using everytime more of their tech. Too the army avatars are adopting navi culture that helps them. The process of mutual influence is being shown. Tell me , how many amazonian natives are in reality helping mining and lumber companies to destroy their land, unless completely aculturated? I dont know how much cherokee u are after all the aculturation ur people has suffered. I think u are probably more english than cherokee.
I agree with you. But the two Avatar movies are parts of a bigger plot. Heard that the third movie is going to feature villainous Na'vi and heroic humans. Lets wait and see.
I absolutely despise the “humans bad” trope. It makes me feel like nobody wants to improve and instead views our existence as a disease. I am a human, and it kinda hurts feeling like the world would be better off without me. Why can’t we celebrate our existence while acknowledging our flaws? If we’re not hopeful or motivated, nothing is going to change.
@@averagedemocrat9546 Assuming this isn’t a joke, I think you missed the point of my comment. I’m not saying we aren’t the ones causing issues. I’m saying that I think constant cynicism and “we’re worthless pieces of shit” isn’t good for mental health. We should use our place in nature as a way to motivate us to save our planet. I think having a hopeful view will make people feel as though it’s possible in the first place. Because I think it is.
@@averagedemocrat9546 if you hate humanity and think humans should die, start with yourself and stop using the tools generated by those with positive vision.
@averagedemocrat9546 humanity has been around for less than 10,000 years. The earth has had life for millions, while we are making an impact, can we really be sure we’re the main propellant of Earth? I mean, in the 70’s they said there would be an ice age in 2012. I think the 90’s said all the ice caps would be melted in the next ten years, yet assuming current trends stay constant in the dynamic world we live, the polar ice caps wouldn’t melt for another fifty years. The planet is dynamic, mind you. The biggest things we’ve caused to the planet are the extinctions of many species. This is a normal occurance, many plants and prey have gone extinct due to the animals that feast on them.
princess mononoke is such a kind movie. nobody gets excessively villainized, everyone has their own perspectives that are understandable, the narrative doesn't pick out a specific faction to demonize and punish by the end. I feel like it's extremely rare for this to ever happen in fiction.
Historian here. One of the single most infuriating attributes I often see in those historically illiterate or even my own colleagues, is that of the good vs. evil mindset. Often I will hear a group of people (often Native Americans) get lumped together as though they were of a singular mind, cohesive and peaceful. This is simply not true, as evident with the Comanches (I’m from Texas, it’s personal). This narrow minded view becomes a dangerous game, as people are willing to then call yourself wicked for removing mere wickedness from the conflict, as one would be hard pressed to find a historical conflict that was simply the righteousness against malice. Such conflicts exist only in the spiritual world, and we will not be a part of them until we die. I personally am more versed in the medieval world, particularly the Welsh Dark Ages and Norse culture, but I see the patterns that reverberated in the Americas. Nothing is new, and to say otherwise is foolhardy. Your videos are important, as the clear emphasis you place on nuance needs to be further addressed. I continue to be more and more impressed with each video you release, though I will tell you to continue delving into your topics, as many will try to discredit your message. I wish you all the luck in the world.
Yeah I'm part Cherokee and live near the eastern reservation and I can promise you that historically, the tribes tended to hate each other pretty viscously. For some reason people like to think they were all innocent victims and they DEFINITELY were not. They were too busy killing each other right up to the point they realized that the Americans were coming and even then, they weren't very happy about having to put aside age old differences. The tribes fought over everything, hunting ground, fertile soil, grazing land, But some one else? Nah, only THOSE guys are evil! ...people are stupid.
@@palladiamorsdeus so basically the same story where groups of humans live all over the world. so strange how people can't understand that humans are nuanced animals.
Absolutely, certain tribes just hated each other and the tribes that didn't still fought for honor, hunting grounds, or just to take. And that was without the U.S. army intervening and settlers coming along, after that things get even more crazy. If anyone wants an idea of how complicated things can get, just read about the Treaty of Fort Laramie, I'd say that was a huge mess that perfectly disproves any black and white narrative one might have.
@@palladiamorsdeus _"They were too busy killing each other right up to the point they realized that the Americans were coming and even then, they weren't very happy about having to put aside age old differences."_ I can't attest to the over historical accuracy of the movie, but I really liked Apocalypto, and for some reason the twist ending of the movie really blew me away in a way that no other movie ever has. Just sort of this concept of having normal human conflicts and struggles, intergroup conflict on a scale that can be understood, and then this outside context problem shows up out of the blue. Obviously it doesn't make everybody "become friends to fight the new enemy" very often in real life. I imagine it was similar to when Genghis Khan united the Mongols and went on to conquer half of Eurasia in a single generation. Or during Islam's most expansionistic periods when it conquered half of Europe, all those Europeans were still fighting each other the whole time.
I'd like to point out that the Na'vi use their head-tails to mind control animals and they act like this is a respectable, mystical, symbiotic relationship. When Jake is taken to "choose" his Icran (spelling might be shoddy), Natiri says that he'll know the Icran is "destined" for him because it will try to kill him. These animals somehow "know" that someone is going to come along and move them around like a meat puppet and they act in self-defense. I have a problem with this whole system. The Na'vi don't live in harmony with nature, they utterly dominate nature in a way humans could never hope to. A well-trained, well-behaved dog can still refuse an order if it really wants. Do the Icran regain control over their own bodies if their controller is about to do something really stupid? What does that make Ewa? A sentient collection of all the dead Na'vi, to be able to "send" all the fauna to risk their lives because one species wants it? Mind control is not harmony, it's intrusion.
Just a little nitpick here: Mononoke is not actually a name, but a word describing a vengeful monster of sorts that has no direct translation into English. So Princess Mononoke could be translated as the vengeful princess of monsters or somesuch, which is how the people from Iron Town certainly view the girl living with the wolves. Her actual name is San... which comes with it's own baggage of potential symbolism, but let's not go into that. ^^
@@beardfistthegoldenone7273 I don't think that's the case here. As a suffix -san is like miss or missus (or mr in case of males), but only as a suffix to another name, not when standing by itself. Then again she was raised by wolves, who may not understand the intricacies of the Human language. So maybe the wolves heard Humans call each other x-san and y-san, so they called their findling just San. Kinda like the arabic character in the 13th Warrior ended up called Ibn by the vikings, even though ibn meant "son of" from him introducing himself as X ibn Y ibn Z (sorry don't remember his, his father's and his grandfather's names...). Though san is also Japanese for three. And with her having two wolf siblings, she might just be literally called three for being the third child of her adoptive parents.
@@Norbert_Sattler I'm pretty sure it is because she's Moro's third child. Though her siblings' names are never given, it's safe to assume that their names are (for now at least) One and Two. Just referring to her as an honorific is like calling your kid Ms. Not Miss, which would be calling her girl/lady, but Ms. Despite the connotations in combination with other words, it means nothing by itself and is an odd choice for a native speaker or more importantly a native speaking audience. (A significant difference from the Vikings using Ibn.) Plus there are several kanji that by themselves can be pronounced "san" if they meant anything but "third child".
@@BonaparteBardithion Yes, I agree... in fact I pretty much stated the same thing already, albeit as I also said, we don't know how well the Wolves grasp the Human language and naming schemes, so while to a native speaker it wouldn't make sense to name a child with only the suffix and nothing in front, who can really tell how wolf gods would think of the matter. Just like the Vikings in my example didn't understand Arabic, the wolves might just not grasp the full or even ANY meaning and use of a name-suffix and just think it's part of the Humans names. I doubt any Human would just randomly wander into the forest to teach animal gods proper Japanese grammar. ^^
The biggest problem Avatar has is that its core gimmick undermines its whole message. The supposedly evil and greedy humans put the time and effort needed to create Avatar bodies in an effort to treat diplomatically with a race of primitive shoot-on-sight xenophobes. Jakes whole job was to earn their trust and explain what the humans needed because no one before that point was given the chance, but he betrayed his own people to chase alien tail.
@@Lotan_ If Hollywood made a movie where advanced aliens showed up to earth in need of something that would save their civilization the humans would certainly be depicted as the villains for shooting on sight and snubbing all attempts at diplomacy.
@@elitemook4234is this a joke? If aliens showed up, strip mined the earth under where we got our food from, walked around in human bodies, then did a 9/11 we would be the baddies for fighting back?
When people speak of Native Americans living in harmony with nature, they forget how brutal nature really is. All cultures began with similar technological constraints, forcing the same "harmony." The ones in Europe, Asia and North Africa simply developed faster than those in the Americas.
Yes, but who was Europe to determine that they should live a certain way? If they wanted to advance them, they could have just left tools and/or commenced trade.
@@antonioramirez8086 In an age when Europeans were constantly trying to kill and conquer each other, it's rather nonsensical to think they would treat more primitive peoples any better. Even the Church believed they were acting for the sake of Natives souls when they tried to convert them. That's just the morality of the time.
Like the weather In Canada in winter it made see pity on how native Americans and Canadians survived , like it needed the western culture to find a way to survive.
Avatar: Humans bad. We should be like the Na'vi and link our minds to the nature goddess who can micro manage the whole world! Princess Mononoke: Yeah, this shit is complex, there's problems and benefits on both sides. You have to hear out both sides to understand the full situation.
@@adamnesicobut hey at least now you understand the full situation and if you're writing something, that practice of seeing multiple perspectives can create some good characters and stories
@Adamnesico yes, as in the end, that IS nature, the only way for a living being g to survive is to kill another, the point of it is tge slow the killing and not let it get out if control. As no matter what we can never break free from nature as we are design to have to kill to survive, just as nature does to itself, we are part of it and can never be free from it, and will always abide by its most basic rules to kill one another in the end.
"...The humans you're trying to eliminate were created here and are a part of nature, too. We are, therefore, a part of the Earth. Tell me, how can you revive the Earth if you forgot this crucial fact?!" "We too are a part of nature, and eliminating humanity... is the same as destroying nature... I have come to realize that I was about to make the same mistake again!" Quotes from an anime about giant robots punching each other in the face.
False. If Humanity was Wiped out, the Earth can begin to heal as humanity has become a Parasite to the Planet causing Mass extinction to other native animals. All animals hint each other but Nature ensures they don't go extinct from being hunted alone such as Camouflage and other ways of avoiding predators. Humans are now a cancer cell. A mass extinction of Humanity can only bring wonders to Nature as it reclaims the planet.
I'm glad you discussed the reason why the Europeans started their colonizations in the first place. That is a topic not really talked about, and should be discussed more. Not many people know about the role the Ottomans blocking trade routs and invading European lands played in the reason why the Europeans sought out new places to gather resources in the first place.
it wasn't even all of Europe, it was like 5, 6 countries. The rest was too busy trying not to get colonized themselves or whiped out of existence (my country didn't exist for 123 years and disappeared off of maps because other countries decided to partition it between each other) But Americans seem to believe there's only like 10 countries in the entire of Europe
These are facts. Europe was a horrible place to be for the best part of our existence on this planet. So many people and borders cramped into one space with an envious eye from the east fuelling conflict after conflict. Sure 17th - 19th century colonialism was terribly unjust however it was just another domino in a long line of oppression. It doesn't wash away the guilt of Anglo Europeans but it does help us reason and come to terms with our own nature so we don't repeat history. That's something that's sorely missing in mainstream media and politics. Too quick to paint the world in black and white. When really it's all grey.
Fun fact: Ashitaka's main weapon, the bow, is a hybrid of the wepons of nature (using wood and sinew for the bow itself, feathers wood and wood for the arrows) and civilisation (technology required to make a bow that is reliable and doesn't snap, iron arrowheads, quivers and training to use it). Even small details like that show that he's between the sides.
@@xelldincht4251 Idk what this has to do with the ops cool observation (also pretty sure slingshots might be simpler but idk). But I think expanding on the ops point, not only is it a blend of the two but you can create a bow without harming nature which again allows him to stay completely neutral.
@@ambrosekillpack4841Even then you can just scavenge the sinew from an animal killed by anoher animal, the wood from trees that are in the process of dieing or got hit by lightning. You can get the needed resources while still staying neutral in the conflict of technology vs nature by using both partially. If the sinew is from an already dead animal and the wood is harvested normally via a saw it only reinforces my point of it being the hybrid, the mix of the 2.
Something that's also interesting is that in terms of biology, the Na'vi are very different from the other Pandoran animals. The Pandoran animals have six limbs, breathe through openings on their chests, have four eyes and no hair. The Na'vi, however, have four limbs, nostrils, and hair. This could be because of two things- either James Cameron didn't care about consistent biology when making his world and wanted more relatable and attractive humanoids for his aliens, or the Na'vi are not native to Pandora. The latter would mean that the ecosystem of Pandora took a foreign species and assimilated it to the point where it became fully integrated with the life on Pandora. Now, this could have been used to show a species that once followed the path humanity is taking in the film instead chose to reject tech, return to nature. However, there is a more insidious option. The Na'vi could have essentially been biologically hijacked by the sentient ecosystem of Pandora, perhaps using a preexisting biological quirk of the proto-Na'vi. (Maybe they already had something like the bio-internet that could be bred to more closely resemble the Pandoran system). This previously advanced race could have been assimilated into the system to prevent them from rising above it and dominating it, or even remaining independent from it. This could have been through self defense, but perhaps Eywa cannot suffer anything that is not itself living on the same world. The population of the Na'vi is controlled, they are kept primitive to keep then in their place on the food chain. Their symbiosis is to keep them, with their human- like intelligence and craftiness, from violating Eywa's status quo. However, why didn't Eywa try this on the humans? For two reasons- humans would die too quickly to adapt to the system due to the poisonous atmosphere, and we don't have that starting point neural network that the theoretical proto Na'vi have. So the only other option would be to force these invading creatures out. Perhaps the essentially hive mind of Pandora used the Na vi to study and seduce the humans who had inadvertently entered the ecosystem through the avatars to force the normal humans out to die. Perhaps Eywa is not a nurturing Mother Nature, but a mother who begets only to devour. Similar to C.S. Lewis's Conditioners, who free humanity from its human nature only for what is left to be enslaved by the base of nature itself. By destroying human ethos and technology, we become enslaved to the very nature that impelled us to develop the instruments we used to dominate it. Sorry for the rambling, this was a fascinating video and it just made me put a few things together. Thanks!
Come on uy, for Eywa the humans were the same as for us are the parasites. You can blame a sentient planet to treat humans as we treat parasites infecting our body.
I was reading Avatar 2's Wikipedia page and came across a human who was a captain of an ocean hunting ship. I wonder if they will have humans senselessly slaughtering animals they cannot eat. If they are smart the hunters will be killing apex predators to protect underwater miners. If the humans are really mining underwater it would be a major concession to leave the surface to the Navi, a peace offering of sorts. However, the writers will probably screw it up with irrationally evil humans and more "reject civilization, return to nature" messaging.
“Ok so our resources are diminishing and if that happens there will be a huge humanitarian crisis so please be our ambassador to ask for more resources for our people” *Betrays his own starving people and doesn’t try to do a compromise as he was tasked to simp for a native female* This is Avatar from James Cameron, one of the best selling movies of all times.
@@zeamaiz945 Do you think if cows, wouldnt evolve first, wouldnt be doing the same, or insects, or even cells, dont do the same, viruses are part of natures, Locust are part of nature, do you think they woldt do the same also i love that enviromentalist are the first to scream also patriarchy and ist and ism demanding abolishing everithing f the past, when in the past, humans were much more tame, tahnks to you guess religion and faith the enviromentalist demand to destroy the past to become better with nature, not realizing you also destroy the best of us, they want to starve to death you think an animal will starve to death because good no
As a human, I'm mildy offended when we are accused of being evil and destructive, knowing that many other animals, if they had the tech, would destroy the world.
Animals even dont need technology. Lets look at Orcas for example, which know what it is killing and torturing someone just for fun. Another example. Dolphins. Cruel, everything raping motherfu*kers. Or normal house cats, which could wipe out entire bird species just because they can be bored. No. Animals can be sometimes even worse than humans. But they are cute and fluffy, so they can get away with it.
Your emphasis on the idea that we must be 'better than nature' reminded me of this from G.K. Chesterton's Orthodoxy: "If you want to treat a tiger reasonably, you must go back to the garden of Eden. For the obstinate reminder continued to recur: only the supernatural has taken a sane view of Nature. The essence of all pantheism, evolutionism, and modern cosmic religion is really in this proposition: that Nature is our mother. Unfortunately, if you regard Nature as a mother, you discover that she is a step-mother. The main point of Christianity was this: that Nature is not our mother: Nature is our sister. We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate. This gives to the typically Christian pleasure in this earth a strange touch of lightness that is almost frivolity. Nature was a solemn mother to the worshippers of Isis and Cybele. Nature was a solemn mother to Wordsworth or to Emerson. But Nature is not solemn to Francis of Assisi or to George Herbert. To St. Francis, Nature is a sister, and even a younger sister: a little, dancing sister, to be laughed at as well as loved." Chesterton was a very intelligent but also very witty and funny defender of Christianity, particularly Catholicism, and I generally would recommend his writing to people of all religious convictions (or lack-thereof). Pilgrim, you in particular would love him if you do not already.
@@menib7574 I would recommend the main things I have read thus far: Orthodoxy, Man Who Was Thursday, the Everlasting Man, and also for something short 'The Dragon's Grandmother' from Tremendous Trifles.
@@menib7574 He was quite prolific: if you like detective stories there are many many texts (most famous the Father Brown series), adventure with twists and turns (the man who was Thursday- I would generally recommend that book-, the mentioned Orthodoxy- is a bit lengthier), essays (the Victorian age in literature or The common Man), hagiography (St Francis and St Thomas Aquinas)
It seems to me that the modern idealization of nature is a direct result of the collapse of religion; namely Christianity. Traditional cultures that advanced anywhere beyond simple hunter gatherering concluded that nature was dark, dirty, dangerous, and brutally unfair. Essentially civilization is man's flawed attempt to make things a little bit more fair and equitable then what nature dishes out. It's only in the comfort of high civilization that man can forget how brutal and unjust nature can be, and discard his faith in a benevolent power above nature in favor of a false quasi-religion centered around the natural order as the highest possible morality. From this every destructive modern materialistic philosophy springs. Communism reduces man's entire existence to competition for resources between the current haves and have nots. Facism overtly embraces the kill or be killed, only the strong survive aspect of the natural order as the only and highest form of morality. Capitalism and liberal democracy view material comfort and safety at the top of the natural and economic foodchain as being man's highest purpose, regardless of the harm this does to his fellow man or the environment. It was only in traditional cultures (in particular Christian culture as far as the west is concerned) where people were encouraged to believe that something wasn't quite right with the natural order of things and that man should attempt to surpass it ( through union with God).
Miyazaki's pro-environmental stories are some his best, in my opinion. Princess Mononoke is a masterpiece, but I think a slept-on film with a similar message is Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. It's a little more pro-nature than the more balanced take in Mononoke, but it's my favorite of Miyazaki's films.
the manga is also worth reading. he only made it because they were refusing to let him make a movie without a pre-existing story to base it on, so the manga was made at the same time, and continues and differs from the movie.
@@michaelokoro5651 yeah japan HATES investing money into movies that dont have pre existing bases to use that proved popular. Even Akira had to have a manga made at the same time as the movie, and that was a golden crossing of funding, interest, and talent. The last time Japan seriously tried to go with an independent (no light novel, no manga) movie from scratch was Redline... and that flopped overseas sadly.
A thing that always bothered me about Avatar was that they never (to my recollection) showed different tribes of the Navi fighting. You tell me that on an entire planet these intelligent creatures never disagreed? No tribe ever tried to push for their own access to the Mother Tree?
Yeah, I understand how they could be painted as saints. But, even if that were to be showcased, would that change anything? Why would anyone say, "look they invade too, so I can too." It is not like the humans were invading to fight hypocrites.
It's utterly broken from a world-building perspective. A tribe- or, heck, even a family- (look at the Sengoku period of Japan) could gain influence, technology, wealth, or ideologies to instigate a civil war of sorts. Even a wanna-be writer can see the flaws in this!
The only possible reason I can think of in-universe as to why they wouldn't fight each other would be their connection to the planet and there goddess.
As a spaniard I can't believe someone out there names the jesuits and the work done by them to try and protect the natives instead of joining the hating the spanish bandwagon
@@Amantducafe People should learn about Bartolome de Las Casas, but they should learn about what he actually advocated for, not merely what he is known for. He did advocate for protection of the native peoples of Central America and that they shouldn't have to work on the haciendas. He also proposed that those natives should be replaced on the haciendas by African slaves.
@@Real_History Not to be controversial or anything, but the black slaves were legally bought from African kingdoms which used to rely heavily on slave trading. They were sold by their own people. In that context, it would've still be more morally acceptable to use already bought slaves than to enslave the native population. Which would still be bad, don't get me wrong. Slavery bad, freedom good. But slaving a native american empire's population goes very much against what would be morally acceptable in that context, at least in my opinion.
To be fair it's too easy to join the "we hate the Spanish" bandwagon since the educational system always paints the scene as "The peaceful natives minding their own business until the evil Europeans showed up." The Aztecs took slaves and butchered their enemies, the Spaniards took slaves and butchered their enemies. As always in war, neither side is "good". Just psychopaths weaponized into attack dogs, greedy bureaucrats seeking to further their career and innocent civilians getting caught in the crossfire
This is by far the best video explaining why Hollywood's obsession with "capitalism evil/humans evil, nature benevolent/natives wholesome" is just flat out dumb. Thank you
Nature is cruel, but I wouldn't go as far to say that it's "evil" it's just a force that brings both positives and negatives, just like civilisation. Civilisation is heavily flawed in many ways, but so is nature. Civilisation highlights and amplifies the greed in humanity while offering comfort and security. Nature however discards most comfort and safety, but offers beauty and fulfilment.
@@raptorjesus9054 In a way, human civilization and its problems are the product of nature. We live in a planet where every living thing evolved to survive, including ourselves. If we developed violent instincts but also altruism, language and eventually a culture, was to survive in nature. For the 300,000 years, more or less, that anatomically modern humans exist, 5,000 years of civilization and 200 years of modern civilization are nothing. We are still animals, in a way. We believe we are very rational with our telegraphs and asbestos walls, but we are still looking for short-term pleasures and solutions for all our needs.
"Technology is evil and humans are assholes. Learn to commune with nature like those noble savages." "Anyways, how did you like the 3D computer graphics of the movie? We developed new cutting-edge MoCap technology for those characters! Look at those realistic underwater shots. Pure VFX magic..."
@@infiniteapex8762it's pretty heavily implied. You see the hulking grey masses of the technology attacking the Na'vi trees. You only see technology in the sad blue-grey colorgrading of the "real world." The technology is made ugly to contrast the beauty of Pandora. It's never explicitly stated though
Let's set something straight. Princess Monoke isn't an example of Japan doing something better. It's an example of Studio Ghibli doing something better. Miyazaki is a god damn genius who surrounds himself with incredibly talented people. Liking Ghibli's films is just liking good movies. Outright.
Studio Ghibli and Miyazaki are Japanese lol, so yeah it is an example of Japan doing better, it's nothing to be ashamed of, Japan can be better at things lol just like they also can be the opposite of that in other things
@@jonasw3945 And Stephen Hawking was born in England. I consider neither to be examples of the status quo in their respective countries and trying to claim that they are is stupid. As I said, Miyazaki is a genius who surrounds himself with talented people who bring his vision forward. That term is not one I apply lightly. When Miyazaki passes from this world, there will be no replacing him. Not internationally. And not from Japan either.
@@hellraiser217 you didn't explain at all your point, Miyazaki is Japanese, the movie was entirely made in Japan with japanese talent, sure Miyazaki is a genius but doesn't take away from the fact that it's all japanese and is a an example of Japan doing better, don't know what stephen hawkin has to do with anything lol. Just because it happens you know the director's name doesn't make this somehow a different thing, it is still japanese lol Japan is a country made of its people, if a japanese production made by japanese people does better than other countries production then yeah it is an example of Japan being better. Hollywood movies are also examples of America's talent and powerful movie industry and whenever a great hollywood movie is made then it is associated with America the same way. The fact that nobody can replace Miyazaki or any other genuis is irrelevant, because he doesn't need replacing, other geniuses existed and will continue to exist in both japan and elsewhere who will made amazing movies in their own way. You whole idea just feels comming from a shame of admiting a country is doing better than another. Again nothing to be ashamed of, Japan also does worst in other stuff and its fine
What bothers me the most is that characters like Grace, who legit care about the Na'vi, who spent her life and career learning their language, breaking down that barrier, setting up a school and clearly teaching a good many of them the English language to switch between, get overlooked by the so called Tree Seeds. Of all the people their God, or the planet itself could've chosen, it's Jake who is the "Chosen One". I completely understand Norm's jealousy, why does a guy who never cared about the Na'vi, let alone humanity, get to be Na'vi Jesus? What also bothers me is that there were many deleted scenes for Avatar that actually portrayed Parker in a more sympathetic light that I WISH weren't cut. As is, he's a flat, 2-D character, but with the deleted scenes, you can see that he actually does care about the Na'vi, or at least the Na'vi Program, that he doesn't want to have alien blood on his hands, he's just trying to do his job to provide his people with valuable resources, and he even gets strong armed by the mercs to lay the hammer down. I wish we could've had that movie instead of this, with stereotypical white, corporate, villains with military redneck, red meat loving, veggy hating gun loving minions. I'm amazed Jimmy Cameron restrained himself to not have any of them put on a white, pointy hood or something.
Dude you get your wish in this new movie with Grace. Why does Parker need to be more nuanced? What purpose does that serve to the story? We already sees he has doubts and hesitations but is ultimately venal and cowardly.
@@chrisbarnett5303 I don't think there's any indication he was afraid of being fired or criticized. He's a military contractor/ army guy. Killing for vested interests is what his job description is. That has nothing to do with cowardice. He prefers a peaceful resolution but he made it clear from the beginning that he relied on brute force more than diplomacy. He wasn't cowardly at all, just self-righteous and uncaring.
The script does a bit better job explaining as to why Eywa chose Jake. Long story short, grace and the other scientists see everything only through a scientists lense. Jake is a soldier, and he accepts what he sees and learns from the Na'vi over time including the spiritual side. Grace refused to accept there were things she couldn't grasp or analyze, while Jake is willing to admit there are bigger things at work. He admits he doesn't understand the science of Pandora, so he doesn't fight it. And because of his time with the Na'vi he's willing to accept there's a living God at the center of Pandora. The Spirits chose him because he was the only one who'd actually listen. I'll admit, Avatar has its weaknesses, but I think that when you are forced to cut down to a two hour or two and a half hour film, you're forced to use only the bare minimum of whats necessary. It's not a book. It's a movie. And that means James Cameron was forced to make A LOT of sacrifices so the film could work. Definitely should read up on his original treatment Project 8 80.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who loves Pocahontas. When I grew up and realized how many people disliked it and the actually incredibly tragic history of the real Pocahontas it made me deeply sad. But the message of Pocahontas always was what resonated with me. The nuance of different groups, how we can easily demonize others, and how common goals can unite us if we choose to try and humbly work together.
@@orangeslash1667 why pocahontas is a banger and have one of the best disney song (i'm french so i don't really know how the song is in english but in french it's one of the best song)
Pocahontas would be a movie with greater depth had it been executed well. It's a rather boring film, honestly, and I say this as someone who enjoys slow movies. The message is great but when you tie it to a movie that isn't very appealing to watch, it gets hard to resonate with what they try to convey.
"To see with eyes unclouded by hate and try to slow the cycle of violence" You need a megaphone and the whole of reddit held hostage in a room or hell the whole of humanity held in a room to listen to this sermon.
What you said about civilization being more merciful than nature is completely true. I've done a bunch of back country camping and generally spent a lot of time in the wild, and the ruthlessness of nature never fails to impress.
Very true. I think it is a fact many people have forgotten today. It is a reason I became a hunter just because I recognized just how little about these things I know, and I still want to have these skills if I am ever required to have them. Nature itself will not care if I have time to learn it or not.
Now that was a great line, "Spain felt they were justified because they saw themselves as victims, pushed to do a 'justified' evil" And those that don't understand that are those who only look at the most recent victim of the cycle instead of at the cycle that brought everything to today.
“San is just like Jake Sully, a human that rejected their humanity and sided wholeheartedly with nature. -Except she’s in the wrong.” - That completely blew my mind, and I will forever remember this whenever comparisons btwn Avatar & Princess Mononoke are brought up in the future.
I would say San is "more in the right" then Jake is. San was abandoned by her parents to Moro (the wolf goddess) when she was a baby. She was raised as a wolf, not as a human. Jake on the other hand spent most of his life as a human and abandoned humanity after a few months and after finding himself a hot alien. San is in the wrong about lots of things, but Jake isn't right about anything.
@@valentinkambushev4968 Also San spent her whole upbringing seeing the evils of humanity (admittedly thru a biased lens); whereas Jake was raised with a human-centric point of view (tho he also saw the follies of humankind by growing up on a dying & wartorn world). Great counterpoint, and that makes a lot more sense. Thanks!
@@valentinkambushev4968 It isn't about who's more morally in the wrong, it's about whether the movie acknowledges that they're in the wrong. Jake betrayed humanity when humanity was depending on him, but the movie saw this as a _good_ thing, because the movie hates humanity.
@@valentinkambushev4968 Honestly, following the biological imperative to mate rather than some sociological construct like 'loyalty to one's people and their money problems' isn't the shocking betrayal as one might think. And given the (ridiculous, but still presented) circumstances, with the Navi being superior to humans in just about every aspect, Jake wasn't even wrong. That's what this comparison is showing. Avatar boils things down to black and white. It's very easy to see which side are the 'good guys'. In Mononoke, you've got Lady Eboshi who has literally provided women with a better life, the monk who is secretly working his own side, San who is supporting the wolves and forces of nature (who are literally turning into demons from the hatred and violence they hold towards their foes), and Ashitaka, seeking to mediate between them all before he dies. Mononoke provides complex characters and a complex story to go along with it. Avatar has less nuance than a Bug Bunny cartoon.
@@Nukestarmaster And rightly so, seeing that humanity is ready to wipe out a species to clean the mess that they made with their own hands. Why should one be loyal to his species, when being born human isn't something that we can choose?
I was surprised at the connections you made with the Ottomans and the Aztecs I know a lot about history, but people talk more about the Mongols than the Ottomans and they don’t talk about the Mongols much.
My textbooks never even _mentioned_ the Ottomans except as the poor poor victims of Vlad the Impaler. I only learned about them and the threat they represented to europe because of EU4, a video game!
@@MrOgyny I was taught Columbus wanted to go to India to save money, not to save money because the Ottomans were blocking all trade routes and enslaving everyone. Big difference.
@@Rollpepper its not incorrect to say he wanted to sail to India to save money. The republic of Venice was on good terms with the ottomans and monopolized the land trade from the east into Europe. So he was trying to save/make money for Spain. Lower level history classes are concerned with what happened more so than why. Too much to cover with too many people there because they have to be. All text books have recommended reading list, usually at the end of chapters, for those inclined to learn more. Most are not, obviously.
one things i noticed about Avatard 2 is this , when Spider got captured Jake and the family didnt even consider or bother to rescue him not only that he imediatly thought spider would break and betray them and give their location up (which he never did , Spider was OG chad loyal to the end) , it showed truly that Jake not only hated earth humans but didnt even trust the ones that stayed by his side, if he trusted Spider for even a lil bit , the whole running away shtick would have never been needed, actually it was Jakes fault that his family got found and the sea navi got in danger in the first place
I fr thought Spider would be totally fine when he was captured by the humans bc he was with his peeps bc no way they would kill a human child, the worst that could happen is raising him to be a weapon but at least he still be alive! But nooo they took unnecessary risked resulting to Neteyams death. The whole ordeal was unnecessary stupid in tge mids of war but hey hey they need character development apparently
7:35 Na'vi are shown to be no strangers to war - as proven by the "kill on sight" policy established by the Chieftain, their preference for poison-tipped arrows, the fact they are depicted to have a pretty good concept of some aspects of warfare with some clans even specializing in certain roles, the fact they have a mythical hero figure who reveals themselves in times of great hardship, choosing one of the Moon's Apex Predators as their mount, and alsso one deleted scene which depicted a piece of dialogue between the protagonist and his Na'vi rival where the latter admonished the humans for "fighting over long distances like cowards" So even though their in-movie depiction was pretty benevolent you can easily see some cracks within the facade and their "goodness" is only compared to the humans on the moon.
@@512TheWolf512 Poisoned projectiles are a warcrime So is mass expulsion of civilians How are the civilian workers at fault for the crimes of a rouge band of mercenaries (the military guys did not act with the consent of Earth command btw)
@@sosig6445 Both the Civilian as well as the Military and even the Research aspect of the Colonization effort was run by the RDA Corporation. So you could technically make the case of every RDA worker having become military once Quaritch seized Command over Hellsgate Base and declared a General Mobilization.
I did enjoy Avatar, but man, I have to say, you are one hundred percent correct about the lack of nuance. All the humans are evil, no reason why, they just are, and all the Na'vi are perfect. I actually think I may watch Princess Mononoke sometime, never have since I am not a massive anime fan, but it genuinely seems like an interesting film.
I can personally recommend pretty much every movie by Hayao Miyazaki. He's the director of Princess Mononoke, but if I had to recommend just one of his movies. I'd have to go with either Castle in the Sky or Spirited away.
@@Vincinate still lack of nuance that makes human human. They basically went "our comrades are evil so we shoot them down mercilessly". Eventhough they just had a poker game last week.
this video hit hard on the self hatred part. my family is an Italian west african mix. and it's so weird when I'm around fully european people who want to apologize and demonize themselves, or around american blacks who feel like victims and demand entitlements. it's so weird. I'll talk to other in the middle like me and we feel like ashitaka. history and history, and the only way to make it better is move on and slow down violence. attempt to start d in unity before an outer enemy destroys us during our internal struggles.
It's incredibly reductive to focus on only the colonialism part of black in America. It was not so long ago that the US made interracial marriage legal and not so long that the LA protests happened because of the unjustified torture of Rodney King. To suggest that they feel like victims because they feel like it is naive. If unity is to be accomplished then the equal treatment of people has to be taken into consideration.
Northern Mexican. Feel exactly like you do. I’ve never been around Africans but I think I would get along with them better than African Americans or wasps exactly becouse of what you just said
@@antonioramirez8086 and there it is....part of what I was talking about. For every case where a black was treated unfairly I can name a white. For equal treatment to work we must be honest about that state of our communities. It was a broad stroke example of people blaming entire races on the actions of some. Blacks dont have it in our generation the way the media portrays it. Moat of it is self inflicted through welfare and culture. I was lucky my dad got us put of the ghetto and gave us a fairly normal life. Because of that I see how bad it is when using being black is crutch or I'm white as superior. It's just causing the blamd game to cycle and violence against one another. That and it's a hard longform conversation. Difficult to have through the text of a yourube comments section
This is an excellent video. You've made me realize why I love and admire Princess Mononoke and don't love and respect Avatar. I believe James Cameron knows that the only way Avatar: The Way of Water can be a better film than Avatar is if the former has a better message than the latter. I even remember an interview from around 2010 where Cameron says that he showed Avatar to some South-American indigenous tribe(s) and that their response was that the hero of the film solved his problems by contributing to the conflict and war between the humans and the Na'vi and that they don't see that as the best way of solving problems. Cameron subsequently said that Avatar 2 would have to have a better message than Avatar if he were to make it. I look forward to Avatar: The Way of Water for that reason.
I noticed that too. And having Jake Sully adopt a human son might be an attempt to bridge the gap. I personally think that Avatar 2 might redeem avatar if they give greater context to human exploitation of Pandora and give the humans a "Lord Assano" equivalent.
I'm cautiously looking forward to it. James Cameron is a philosophical dumbass but he's a philosophical dumbass who actually listens to criticism and tries to improve himself. There's a naïve transparency to the guy that makes him a lot less insufferable than certain other directors.
@@Katya_Lastochka I rewatched avatar recently and yeah it was weird how reasonable he was until the last third where he just became very cliched of a villain
I had never heard about the fact that the Europeans were being invaded before and during western colonization. That context is important and I'm sad I didn't learn about it sooner! Amazing work on this essay.
@@TheLatiosnlatias02 Israel is invading Ukraine? And since you want to portray one side as evil (exactly what this video is talking about), you do remember that on October 7th Hamas broke a ceasefire and butchered over 1200 Israeli civilians in manners that would have given Genghis Khan pause, right? Or is that just OK with you? @joeymorin is correct. Europe invaded and colonized, but was also invaded and colonized. Try to see with eyes unclouded by hated... if you can.
@@Evil0tto How much dumber can you get? Too much MSM, BBC, Kan 11, Sky, CNN, Radio Free Europe, etc... is not good for EU. Israel has its dirty hands in Ukraine and is behind Ukrainian War. Russia did a great job at kicking them out. Russia has destroyed the Ukrainian army many times and NATO and Israel keep reconstituting it. Now, NATO is demilitarised and depleted and Ukraine fatigue is setting in the West. Israel is getting a karma from Hamas and had it coming. Ukraine has been devastated and on the verge of collapse. So there will be no war of attrition - as Western aid is dwindling and the world moving on. Time to surrender or die for Ukraine has arrived. Zionist evil was created by the Rothschild criminals who control the puppet corrupt monarchy. Balfour declaration was a British imperialist project to permanently control oil rich Arab puppet regimes by planting the Zionist cancer in Arab Palestine circa 1948. Snap out of your crap by reading Henry Ford's book titled THE INTERNATIONAL JEW - THE WORLD'S FOREMOST PROBLEM. Then learn the difference between lies and truth by researching the USS LIBERTY massacre of June 1967... same with 9/11. Research the founding of Hollywood, and the founders, and the subsequent monopoly on media since. Become familiar with Bernard Baruch and his manipulations of both Woodrow Wilson and FDR. Research the truth regarding Pearl Harbor including The McCollum Memo and FDR's RAINBOW 5 PLAN. Learn about Walt Whitman Rostow and his manipulation of LBJ with the assistance of others such as Arthur Krim and Abe Feinberg who brought America the Viet Nam debacle. Research the so-called BALFOUR DECLARATION which was an arrangement between the Rothschilds and powerful Arthur Balfour whereby America was tricked into WWI and Palestine was presented to the Jews as a homeland...etc. You shit heads have no morals.
@@Evil0tto How much dumber can you get? Too much MSM, Yahoo, ABC, BBC, CBC, CNN, Sky, Radio Free Europe, France 24, etc... is not good for you. Israel is behind this Ukrainian War and you're in denial. Russia did a great job at kicking them and NATO out of Ukraine. You shit heads always support that mass murdering nation like Israel when it was behind Ukrainian war and massacre of Palestinians. ZionNazis was created by the Rothschild criminals who control the puppet corrupt monarchy. Balfour declaration was a British imperialist project to permanently control oil rich Arab puppet regimes by planting the Zionist cancer in Arab Palestine circa 1948. Snap out of your crap by reading Henry Ford's book titled THE INTERNATIONAL JEW - THE WORLD'S FOREMOST PROBLEM. Then learn the difference between lies and truth by researching the USS LIBERTY massacre of June 1967... same with 9/11. Research the founding of Hollywood, and the founders, and the subsequent monopoly on media since. Become familiar with Bernard Baruch and his manipulations of both Woodrow Wilson and FDR. Research the truth regarding Pearl Harbor including The McCollum Memo and FDR's RAINBOW 5 PLAN. Learn about Walt Whitman Rostow and his manipulation of LBJ with the assistance of others such as Arthur Krim and Abe Feinberg who brought America the Viet Nam debacle. Research the so-called BALFOUR DECLARATION which was an arrangement between the Rothschilds and powerful Arthur Balfour whereby America was tricked into WWI and Palestine was presented to the Jews as a homeland...etc.
I mean in the very beginning of Disney Pocahontas movie you have Pocahontas’s father and the other men returning back from war with a rival tribe so even Disney portrayed the Native American people more three dimensionally and not as tree hugging hippie peace lovers.
...Though they did turn Radcliff from soneone whondid try negotiation, even if underhanded at times to an outright villain. Another tribe in the area invited him to a parlay and skinned him alove under false flag of truce
And the "Savages savages" musical bit shown both sides to be hatefull and equally intolerant, it wasn't just the english blatantly proclaiming the other to be barbaric and evil but the Natives aswell.
The smallpox blanket thing is interesting, because i remember it taught as fact at school but it seems like it was just a myth now. I saw one study on it which basically said it would backfire if you tried to do it, because they really didn't understand how disease travelled and probably would just get sick handling freshly infected blankets, which would be much less dangerous by the time they had reached the natives. So it was a hypothetical bomb that blows up in your face if you are fool enough to build one. It was much more likely that the smallpox infection just had already gotten some resistance in the europeans but the natives had to get it the hard way, and the horrors of the massive native war with the aztecs just made everything so much worse. If the aztecs hadn't been so horrible, it's entirely possible the spanish would have been beaten back.
Indeed. Back then people didn't really know where diseases came from, so it’s unlikely they intentionally gave smallpox to the natives. If they DID give blankets to the Indians, they did so altruistically, and gave them smallpox on accident. Don't jump to apply malice where incompetence/ignorance can also apply.
The claim of smallpox blankets came from a single female academic who hated America and Europeans, in the 1970s. She was perusing the journals of the leader of a military detachment who had been sent to open diplomatic talks with a tribe. The journal mentions that on the way there, they stopped at a field hospital where people with smallpox were being treated. They picked up some blankets as gifts and to trade once they met with the tribe, but this was well before the germ theory of disease. They got there, began diplomatic relations with the tribe, gave them the blankets. But there were no recorded outbreaks of smallpox in that area after their visit. In fact, smallpox had already raged through that area multiple times, and had spread far to the north and west past the area of that tribe decades prior.
@@immikeurnot the best they could try given the medical knowledge is to blow something unimaginably stinking (or literally cover blankets in faeces which kinda defeats their purpose) given miasma theory.
@@immikeurnot Germ Theory didn't exist but there was an understanding of contagion... But it's also worth noting that the reason we have a record of "plague blankets" is people who did attempt this were brought up on charges. So the only people we know for sure died as a result of plague blanket schemes were a handful of officers who got hanged for war crimes.
I think when people say "nature is a paradise", without meaning to what I think they really (subconsciously) mean is "the dream of living in a way that is natural to ourselves would be paradise". By saying "nature is a paradise" they are basically telling themselves a story, and on a subconscious level stories work the same as dreams and use the same symbolic language (its all about emotional and psychological subconscious venting).
This was a great video. You are one of the few content creators, who discuss our relation to nature and who also understand, that humans aren't a separate entity from nature. People always go with an idea that place can be either natural (imagine forest, swamp and other places without humans) or it can be unnaturally changed by humans (imagine cities, villages etc.). Yet they always fail to recognize, that humans building cities is just as natural as a beavers building their dams or ants building anthills. They wouldn't consider an anthill unnatural so why is a city different? Also thank you for pointing out that one of the reasons Europeans sailed west (to find new trade route to India) was because of the Ottoman Empire. It never occurred to me that there could be a connection.
One thing i forgot to add. I don't think the deer god in the end survived. Like the "priest" said, once sunlight touches the god in its headless form it will vanish. They returned its head, but the sunlight touched it in the process of turning from the disturbed form to its standard night form. Since it wasn't completely turned it still died, but because it was already mostly normal, its body changed its effect from bringing death to bringing life. That's why it still disappeared but it didn't kill everyone and instead rejuvenated the land. (Mononoke even comments on that fact, but Ashitaka comforts her by claiming that it will never truly disappear as long as the nature itself exists.) That is also one of the reasons why the ending is slightly somber. The nature didn't die, but the gods, who gave animals their strength+size and intellect, vanished and without them the animals will turn to mere beasts (like the pigs were worried). I believe the idea was, that this was the moment, that turned the original magical world into the normal world we live in. Connecting it with our reality and putting the story into our own world instead of a completely fictional one (like in D&D, Warcraft, etc.).
Nature is a self repairing mechanism that lives in cycles. Resources are not wasted what is a trash for one organism is food for another. And it works in cycles there is start of life, growth, decay and death and yet another start. In cities it is all linear production & dumping trash. Hardly anything is reused or recycled. It is not that humans do not have right to live. Just don't say we are good guys here coz we are certainly not. Civilizations that are not parasiting are more advanced because they are self-sustainable. Cancer also grows only until it has something to feed on
Isn't it funny how all these lunatics always somehow forget that if any of animal species had half of our brain, they would dominate the planet and do exactly the same as we do, maybe even worse? Imagine ants with their hive mind suddenly getting smarter. They would be unstoppable. Chips waging literal wars of extinction and conquest. We are literally the only ones who actually cares about the surrounding at all. No animal cares if the rest of the world burns or doesn't really have the capacity to understand it.
I have always being amazed by how much of avatar's audience easily swallow the whole "human's bad", while they themselves experience the human condition daily as soon as they left the cinema. Great video. It is good to see someone pointing out Cameron's hipocrisy. Also, Halo actually has the whole conquest theme, since The Covenant is an empire conformed by multiple alien races that were forced to join under threat of destruction. Humans were under threat of destruction due to religious fanatism and political reasons.
At no point does avatar say "humans bad". It doesnt even imply it. Its saying capitalism and imperialism is bad. The RDA, a greedy corporation is bad. Hell, half the human characters are good guys. It drives me god damn nuts that everyone just assumes that avatar is anti humanity, based on nothing, when thats not what it is at all. We arent bad. The things we are doing are bad. We could choose not to destroy things for the sake of profit, but we dont, because the people sitting on mountains of wealth dont want to, and they have all the power and influence. The RDA corporation is bad, because of what theyre doing.
They didn't voyage out in the first place for pointless conquest. They needed the plot device juice to save humanity or whatever, I don't remember it all that well it was a forgettable movie. But I do remember They needed something from the blue people to continue humanity's existence.
@juanmanikings It's not a mediocre movie. A lot of pseudo intellectuals like to dunk on it, mostly because they either disagree with its message, or they missed the point, and I've seen plenty of video essays made by people who weren't paying attention when they watched it, or go out of their way to interpret everything in bad faith, like this one. It's a genuinely good movie that does something no other big blockbuster does. It spits on the status quo, and tells you the solution is rising up against corporations/the establishment in revolutionary violence. It criticizes the military industrial complex in a manner I've never seen in a blockbuster like this. This movie tells a truth most of western society doesn't want to accept. We are killing our mother.
@@ElectricAlien577 If you want a story with the same themes but far better executions and not as preaching as this one read the manga of Nausicaa that's is how you do enviromental massage without being preachy
After seeing this in theatre back in 2009, I remember being infuriated at Jake Sully. He had been tasked to try to find a compromise- and even if he was given that task in bad faith by malicious characters, he made absolutely no attempt whatsoever to carry it out. An avenue for coexistence was there, but he was too busy chasing blue tail, completely oblivious to the intensifying crisis. All the bloodshed could have been avoided if he had actually made even a half-hearted attempt to do his job. That sound like a hero to you? Thank you for this video which elaborates on the frustration that Avatar left me with.
No, you're wrong, like the Pilgrim Pass and his "essay". That's a common but liyful myth that Jake Sully betrayed humanity for the sake of hot alien ass and abandoned his diplomatic mission. It's a pure shit because Jake has never intended not only to betray anybody, but even to raise the fire of war. If you are going to proove your shitty-ass point of view with the scene when Jake says it's impossible to make Na'Vi leave the Home-Tree - you will inevitably appear with a huge poop on your pants. Why? Because you will always pay zero attention to other moments that prove the opposite. For instance, how much I used to hear the backlash about the moment when Jake smashes the camera on the bulldozer, "so how mad he is!", but almost all of them missed the part of the scene where Jake after awaking in the Avatar body immediately... shouts to the bulldozer "Hey, Stop!", makes the stopping gestures and waving his arms to take attention of operator for the machine stoppage. In other words, he tried to stop bulldozer WITHOUT ANY VIOLENCE. But the operator of the bulldozer denied, he was actually FORCED to destroy the camera. But it's not only evidence. Then, when Jake and Neytiri arrive at the Home-Tree and see the Omaticaya Clan and Tsu'tey going to strike back. Guess, what does Jake Sully? HE TRIES TO PERSUADE TSU'TEY AND OMATICAYA CLAN IN GENERAL NOT TO STRIKE BACK. That's the thing. And finally, when the Home-Tree falls, and the peace between Humans and Na'Vi is no longer possible, Jake Sully has reflections about that: "I was a warrior who dreamed he could bring peace. Sooner or later though, you always have to wake up." There is no happiness in these words. Even in the episode where he says the humanity has nothing sustainable to offer, he is not happy about this, neither there, nor when Quaritch shows this. To be frank, Pilgrim Ass made unfair comparison. When he talks about Mononoke, he makes very detailed analysis, taking into consideration each detail shown in the anime. However, when the turn comes to James Cameron's Avatar, it all comes down to the stereotypes around avatar and common misconceptions.
I will say in his defense, the bad faith and malicious characters gave him no chance to carry out that so called coexistence. You talk about avoiding bloodshed but everyone....everywhere must kill to survive. Coexistence would be either subjugation or the humans joining the food chain of the planet. If I were jake sully I would also see it as an impossible task and simply stay out of it. The only crisis here is that the humans want more than they need. The point of the movie was human civilization is bad, but really it should have been humans are also just animal trying to survive, but were just better at it than the other animals. There is no good or evil in killing to survive. And you got to chase whatever color tail you can to survive.(as a species) So I think you missed the point of the video.
@@andrewgoehring9108 We don't know how future human civilization work and what innovation they have that improve the lives of billions. Who knows they might have tech that allows machines to cure cancer for cheap and needs the space rocks for it. Its literally like how most of ingridients in our fertillizers came from fossil fuels which allows us to grow more food so that we won't starve but environmentalists seem to leave that out in their arguements
@@AureliusLaurentius1099 And your point? It does not matter how future civilization might work. We see in the movie how this human civilization works. No matter what innovations they had, they seemed incapable or unwilling to find another way to solve their problems without making problems for other sentient races. It don't matter what tech they had or what that rock did. They still had the wrong mindset to save their people in a way that makes them better than animals. It could have been the mythical fountain of youth and the movie would have been the same. Side note: Dead animals = plant food. fossil fuels work too, it was even brought up in the movie. So i'm not sure what you mean by it being similar. Wait are you agreeing with me that humans are not acting like a higher creature or just saying that we should have a way to solve the problem without massacring them.
He couldn't give two sh!t about a human life at this point. He lost his family and lost his ability to walk. Becoming an alien was a second chance at life for him, so he was ready to get rid of humanity as a whole if it were to get in his way. He's a villain
5:36 And that is exactly why I love Princess Mononoke: neither side are "good guys" or "bad guys" per se, they are just two sides in a conflict, and what the protagonist does is solving the conflict in a way that isn't to the disadvantage of either.
In my life I try to be my own person, but if I ever actually looked up to anyone as an archetype of a positive masculine and humanitarian hero - it's gotta be Prince Ashitaka... this movie is definitely one of the best ones ever made and it's message touches my heart every time ♡
I and others will always get hate for this, because He said those who follow Him will be hated by the world. Anyways, why not Jesus of Nazareth the Christ, Yehushua HaMashiach? Why not look up to Him? You don't have to respond, I just really needed to say that.
@andresmcguire-buckley1659 why is Christianity the one true religion when there are so many religions that say they are? You don't have to answer I'm just curious.
@@ma.3934I would have made a super long and detailed comment on why Christianity is the one true religion but, Red Pen Logic did a video response to this question and he answers it better than I would have.
I watched Princess Mononoke for the first time, simultaneously leaving me so happy and sad. I completely understand the ending and how Ashitaka needed to be a neutral party in a world where people can only see black and white, but I just wanted Ashitaka to be happy with Mononoke after all the pain he endured in pursuit of peace between humans and nature. (In the end, he probably was because he said he'd visit.) But he can't see his family anymore and essentially takes governorship over Irontown (in m mind, since I don't think there's a continuation as far as I know), so it just left me cold and a little empty, but like a cool stream of water over my shoulders rather than a piercing chill. Still love it, but it hit me pretty hard and is one of the best pieces of art I've ever witnessed.
Even comparing Princess Mononoke to Nausicca of the Valley of the Wind, another earlier Miyazaki movie, Nausicca is more heavy handed in its environmental message, but it's still more balanced and nuanced than Avatar.
Nausicaa is a bit of a different angle on it. In the two in the video, the environment is fighting back against human aggression whereas in Nausicaa the jungle is reclaiming land from the humans, looking at the ruins of Pedjite and others that Lord Eupa travels through
@@hammer1349 Sort of. The history is expanded on a lot more in the manga, but the poisonous Sea of Corruption in a fungus that draws out all the pollutants in the soil and air, ultimately purifying the Earth. When there is no more toxins in the environment, the fungus will die off. In the movie, its more hinted that Nature itself created the fungus, but, in the manga, it is revealed that it was created by scientists right before the fall of human civilization.
@@hammer1349 I'd say it's more of a dealing with the fallout situation, with the remnants of the Empire which caused it going "You know what could solve it? More of it!" (+ jingoism of reconquest) Not as stupid as it sound considering burning the biomes toxic to humans do work somewhat, but they did not (or refused to) see that this life wasn't against humanity and simply filled open biological niches that would eventually lead to a proper ecosystem again. It is reclaiming in the sense of "I am a spore, i landed here, it's a hellhole for everyone but me, i'm growing" times a billion, purifying the otherwise desolate regions through converting the toxic compounds in the soil into toxic spores is a side effect. TLDR should have invested more into biologists and less into false-flagging giant pill bugs.
Also Nausicca is a condensed adaptation of a much longer series so in order to get the point across without coming across as disjointed they had to dumb things down.
This was an excellent analysis. As a biology/paleontology student, I know how cruel and indifferent nature can be, and I know FOR SURE that human beings are far from being the absolute only species on the planet capable of malice (I recommend Casual Geographic's channel, if you have the stomach), so I agree with the whole delusional and downright ignorant "nature is perfect and animals are wiser than us" being garbage. I did not know however, how the Ottoman invasions of Europe pushed Europeans toward the Americas. Very interesting indeed, even if the way Europeans treated the natives was still monstrous and vile. Like the modern saying goes, "it explains why they did it, but it doesn't excuse it." Great video essay, thank you for sharing your perspective with us!
I don't think the Ottoman invasions of Europe are really all that relevant, since even without that threat there would still be incentive to settle the New World to cultivate it and extract resources. Also this was an era were conquest was not unusual. At the same time, I don't see how the way Europeans treated natives was particularly vile or monstrous. The native tribes would fight and conquer each other, so why would it be particularly cruel if a European "tribe" came an conquered them? It's only until around the 1800s and the trail of tears where I see the treatment of indigenous Americans as unjust. Though I still wouldn't call it monstrous and vile given that many indigenous Americans sided against the U.S. in the war of 1812.
Whoever thinks that nature is beautiful and pacific needs to touch grass. However, all species in nature need to be protected, because they have a right to live. Except mosquitos. We could do without Aedes Aegypticus, for instance, and without tapeworms, brain-eating amoebas, Ebola, ticks, bedbugs, leeches, SARS-CoV, SARS-CoV-2, the Marburg virus, Yersinia Pestis...
Avatar basically implements a quote said by Drew Gooden: “These guys are bad, and these guys are good, and that’s why they fight.” In Princess Mononoke, there’s a lot more gray area-you see bad traits in the heroes at times and sympathize with the villains at times. That’s how it is in real life. This makes the story feel more human and relevant.
It would be excusable if the same movies he makes with cutting-edge technology did not contain the rather conflicted message that technology is bad and we should basically return to monke.
@@renard6012 i get what where your coming from but look at avatar 2 it's another commerical hit grossing 1.8 billion while commenting. Avatar is for masses who are bordes from super hero shit. Now it's new meta unlocked since top gun mavrik. I believe people are going to catch up to his simpleton view of the world. Like he said testosterone is bad and men should get rid of. But he forgets that testosterone running in his body made him go autistic in this avatar franchise.
I almost never comment, but your video is very well written and from a viewpoint I have rarely seen. I especially like how you mentioned how the industrial side in Princess Mononoke supports people that would usually die in nature. I am an avid nature lover and I am disabled, and I take medicine for my disability. As much as I like nature, without the pills I take, I would die. If there was ever a scenario where humans had to suddenly live like the Na’vi, myself and many other disabled people wouldn't be able to make it (I also find many ‘return to nature’ folks end up spreading ableist narrative, though I won’t get into that rn). In addition, I also believe that ‘huurrr humans bad’ is, as you said, ultimately destructive and very useful to those who wish to continue destroying the earth. It’s much easier to continue polluting under the pretense that all humans are evil because it makes us feel that we do not deserve a habitable world. However, if we could change the narrative and say ‘Humans deserve the safety and happiness society gives us, AND we have the ability to coexist with nature’, then I think more people would be inspired to help the planet instead of just…giving up because ‘evil is human’s nature lmao’. Sorry for the rant…I’ve just been thinking about it for a while and you mentioned a lot of points I agree with. I’ll be sure to check out your other videos :] (*Many people are sharing their opinions about companies and pollution in the replies of this comment. While I encourage and support everyone's opinion on this topic (I like having civil discussions), this comment was supposed to be about disabled people. I already know the harm companies cause, but this comment was about how disabled people are often not part of environmental conversations. I would prefer if that part was discussed in the replies instead of arguing.)
I really don't think that 'humans bad' narrative comes from a place of trying to manipulate people to give up. Corporations love spreading environmental optimism, peddling in trivialities to make people feel like they are doing something to make a change like the act of replacing plastic straws. I think the origin and purpose of doomer narratives become more apparent when you examine the fact that there is public outcry in response even to these corporate placebos, with people saying that alternatives to plastic straws are dangerous blah blah blah. Kinda rambling but I don't really don't believe that doomer man vs nature narratives are a corporate tool to brainwash the masses, when those corporations typically go down the exact opposite route. Obviously neither view is helpful, but I think both originate from the intrinsic opposition to change embedded in the human psyche.
@@jimjimson6208 I see where you're coming from, but I don't entirely agree with you! First, when I first made the comment I never said that the 'humans bad' narrative was in any way a manipulation tactic, either from regular people or corporations; I meant that it was more a shared mentality that was easily spread, and that pessimism about the ability to help the environment actively causes harm. Secondly, many corporations do encourage environmental optimism (which is good), but a company like Shell, one of the biggest polluters in the world, telling me to use paper straws isn't going to undo the destruction they create, which is what I also meant in my original comment. Many of the top polluter companies pushing out that environmental optimism- (use paper straws, drive less, ect)- do that to push the blame onto the regular populace, saying that we are the main cause for the destruction of the environment, when those companies cause over 70% of the pollution (which is what I meant when I said 'useful to the people who continue to destroy the earth'- these companies shift the blame onto us for 'being awful and polluting' when they're the main contributors). It isn't 'manipulation', per say, but a distraction tactic. But in my original comment I was more trying to talk about how easy it is for pessimistic mentalities to spread than the affect companies have, lol. The important thing I was trying to convey was that disabled people shouldn't be left behind in conversations about the environment, because as a society we have the ability to care for disabled people and be environmentally aware. Thanks for the thoughtful response, though! :) I get the part about humanity's adversion to change, and I can't help but agree with that part lmao.
Ofcourse mate, because, the people that are actually protecting the worlds LAST forests, you know, our indigenous peoples, are not being genocide by corporate lobbies and corrupt governments right? And if we just stop believing humans are bad, all that destruction of our ecosystem will magically stop too! Wake up man.. as an Indigenous Australian this naive attitude is literally killing me.
After receiving the all Europeans are colonizers and slavers (I’m Polish living in Ireland the irony) and all men are rapists or enable it shpeel from two Brazilian girls. I saw the reversal of hate play right in front of me and on my skin. The ending of your video really resonated with me, it essentially what I say to people in college, or others through poems I write and my say. It isn’t that one is good and the other evil nor that the one is evil and the other good. The line of good and evil crosses the hearts of all people. By nature we’re greedy and violent, responsibility lays on ourselves to keep those primordial powerful drives constructive and not destructive. I’ve never thought I’d hear a reasonable person out of Brazil, someone who is well read on history and not dogmatic and simplistic. You got yourself a subscriber my friend and my bias of anecdotal experience has been shattered thanks to you man. Peace man, you seem like the sort of dude id love to spend a night by the campfire talking!
THANKS! I love when I find someone who truly understands how realistic comflicts should be represented, I absolutely hate politics in media not because they are politics or because they criticize my beliefs, but because almost all representations are extremley one sided, I hate when my side is represented only as the wrong one, but I also hate when my side represents itself as the absolute good one, never taking a moment to remember "Hey, maybe, just maybe, there is a reason why the other side exists! Maybe they have a preferences over the possible good points their side offers, just maybe, we can find a way to balance things or at least get a better result, just maybe we could think and imagine ourselves as memebers of the other side!" but instead all I get are criticism of capitalism/communism only representing the bad side and thinking nature is good. Remember kids, mother nature may be wise but that doesn't mean she is good and will look after you, she will make mistakes and use you in her own favor to keep things going and keep learning, there is a reason why civilization was born instead of staying in nature, if wanting to stay alive is the same as greed then I'm greedy for me and my family.
This is a bit offtopic, but I would love to see you talking about The Dragon Prince, a series that seems to be popular but I actively hated in many levels, the main one being how one sided the plot presented its story (I will talk about it as someone who just watched the first 2 seasons, I don't care about the rest unless something did change), like how the king had to choose between saving a dying kingdom, sacrificing half of his own kingdom to save theirs, or kill a golem creature to use its core grow more food during winter and save both kingdoms, the 3rd option is presented as black magic and his wife hates his decision of relying on black magic and killing the golem because that's moreally wrong, which is just... whaaaaat? Ma'am, are you saying is okey for the two kingdoms to die? How are you going to tell them the news? Wy is it okey to kill one animalto save one life for a week but is wrong to kill one animal to save literally a whole kingdom? And is not as if the plot ever took this approach in consideration because the king is presented as guilty for taking that decision as if he was thinking it was a bad one even tho black magic saved everyone but one life, and is not as if the plot ever mentioned some possible consequences of killing the golem like "Now that the golem is dead, a meteorite will fall and kill the entire continent", no, is just wrong to kill it because is the last of its kind, which is too bad but that's how nature works, taking the last of one kind as a last resource in order to survive.
Remember, the Mongols, and Gengis Khan himself, were enslaved and oppressed by the other powers around them. Their whole conquest was the result of centuries old trauma of being a disorganized, nomadic people weakened by internal conflict and exploited by 'civilised' people. This is why Gengis Khan was so excessive in his treatment of those he perceived as exploitative or having too much power, and absolutely did not tolerate dissent. He himself was captured as a young boy and kept as a slave by another tribe after they poisoned his father. There's that famous story of how he was once kept in a slave in a certain chinese kingdom, where he was kept in a cage in a public square so people could mock him or throw stones at him. A monk offered him food, and basically said "when you come back for revenge, as I know you will, please spare my monastry". Later, when Khan wiped the kingdom off the face of the earth, the monastry was the only thing left standing.
Not saying he was a good guy but damn, he repaid that kindness like a man... wait how would that monastery survive though? Wouldn't it be in danger of roaming bandits since the previous kingdom is practically dead?
@@guardianofthetoasters2323 Like Nockgun said, Mongol protection. Under Genghis Khan, the Mongols boasted that a virgin carrying gold could cross the empire alone and be unmolested out of fear of the government's wrath. If the story is true, then Genghis probably would have commanded the local government to protect the monastery at pain of death, and nobody was stupid enough to try to attack it because they didn't want to face whatever punishment they'd get for attacking a place that was under the protection of THE Khan himself.
Being an anime fan, I see a lot of nods to Princess Mononoke, but almost every time someone makes fan art, it's of San, Princess Mononoke. I'm always looking for artwork of Ashitaka, because he was my favorite character, but I hardly ever do. I wanna say it's because San is an attractive woman, of course. Yet, after watching this video and witnessing the state of western culture, it makes me think people might gravitate toward yay nature and screw humans.
This is why I find so interesting how Miyazaki was advised to change the title from Legend of Ashitaka to Princess Mononoke, because it would be more memorable (which mean marketable). The neutral balanced opinions are never the sexiest :(
This is pure gold! Why can't we as humans dig a little deeper into complex issues and see the causes and effects of the whole picture? If we understand that, we can give each other a little slack for why we are who we are, then we won't have to become so nasty with one another.
35:15. This actually would be an interesting story to read in a book/comic book, watch within a show or movie series, or played in a video game. (edit: forgot to put "/comic book")
Because the world is cursed bruh. That doesn’t just mean nature is cruel, it means humans are innately sinful. Like the oc said, you gotta beyond humanity to transcend human nature(repent and turn to Christ)
unfortunately there is no society that can overcome the Us vs Them mentality... or the rare ones that do just get violently conquered by their neighbours/invaders :v
17:31 - THANK YOU. Recognizing that industry is not anti-nature, but is part of nature, is a paradigm shift that we desperately need more people to understand. We are unable to do anything unnatural; we are part of nature.
Additionally, natural vs unnatural is an unhelpful way to look at things. I think it's so much better to think about wholesome/sustainable vs not. I'd rather have people getting around on electric trains and streetcars than have them all individually trying to feed and house animals to pull them around just because it's "more natural." I'd rather have a fiberglass insulated house heated by solar or windmills or geothermal than a wattle-and-daub hut with a smoky fire just to keep warm. Technological advances give us so much opportunity to live more efficiently, with less of an impact, if we only focused on building this kind of future instead of wallowing in self-hatred.
@@eyesofthecervino3366 In truth, reality is even better than that. We don't need to drive around in electric cars to save the environment; we already have vastly improved things in that regard (unless you're in China or India, who are generally exempt from all these world treaties on this stuff anyway). Electric vehicles are LESS eco-friendly than modern internal combustion engines due to the ineffiencies of the batteries and the need to still generate the power (and various governments' refusal to green light natural gas and nuclear power plants, leading to coal being the only reliable kind since solar and wind farms are a very expensive joke). The more we advance in seeking efficient, cheaper power, the cleaner things get, because efficiency is cheaper and less polluting.
Your channel it's so underated, as a child I always thought that the natives were better humans as they could live in communion with nature and all, but as I got older and I started to learn about civilizations I was able to see their flaws too, for instance, today it's known that in the Island of Pascoa the people exhausted so badly the ecosystem that they have to move out from there because there was nothing left to survive from. This simplistic view of live that today we have it's very hypocritical and blindsided to many aspects of human nature, and Hollywood lately is hyping up this because is going along with the current thinking of political activist. I don't see productions from there anymore because it got so full of ideologies I no longer feel any type of immersion in most movies, as a woman I feel tired of being pandered about too. Not wonder most comics in the US are losing the battle to Asia ones, mostly Japan. I digress a lot lol, but I think you got the point.
indeed, we're all human. The Maya had a similar ecological collapse caused by their massive construction work which caused a civilization ending famine. We can all also appreciate their virtues and accomplishments too which is what you were doing which is admirable. The Mayan mathematicians were something else and their architecture is pretty incredible. Also a native culture I really like are the Hopi whom I read about when I was 7 and I never really forgot about them. When fiction talks about peaceful and wise natives its usually taken from the Hopi people in my understanding. They are among the closest to this idealized view we see of the native cultures in fiction. But they are also just human like us. Idealizing any people too much also gets in the way real understanding between people which is necessary for positive intercultural interactions.
@@PilgrimsPass Same man. Luckily I am making a comic that isn’t preachy. Maybe there is some cringe but it’s mostly because this is the first series I’m making.
Hollywood always goes along with the current dominating political direction, always has. It's almost like it's the propaganda department of the government.
I've never given anyone on RUclips money before, in fact I generally block all ads with third-party programs. The well-compiled visuals and in-depth comparison was very enjoyable, even professional. When you began going into real cited history; that's when I decided to donate. There's good follow-through and flow in saying that historically illiterate people perpetuate bad ideas, explaining why the ideas are bad, and then proceeding to reduce the aforementioned illiteracy. I look forward to seeing what you make next. - Cheers, from PA.
Well I guess to be fair, a game doesn’t really have the same time constraints as a movie, a film at-most would rather have 2-3 hours to prevent audience boredom, but a game can end up being as long as 20 as the players can go at their own pace and even take breaks, and the extra time also makes the story be more developed than be limited to fit under the time constraints Why so many people wished for the deleted scenes of avatar to be officialized, is due to them showing more fairness, and even developing some of the human side, however they were deleted due to extending the film well over 4 hours Though in retrospect I think it’s because showing the humans vulnerabilities or things that may incur understanding and sympathy would go against the message James wanted avatar to give
I'll just say that despite watching Princess Mononoke over 10 times, you still help me realize what's great in it and offered a new perspective to help me love it even more. Lady Eboshi and Ashikata becomes seems to be better characters over time ageing like fine wine. My only criticism of your work is that you're giving too much credit on the Japanese as a whole than Miyazaki. Hayao Miyazaki is amazingly progressive with his writing of women, but it's not the norm. I don't know if you will ever see this comment but I suggest the topic of the Final Fantasy series' hate boner on religion (particularly War of the Lions, X, XII). The series removes a lot of nuances and outright demonizes religion as cartoon villains.
Absolutely, the overwhelming majority of mainstream Japanese media these days is just as trash as hollywood and I'm sick of weebs pretending otherwise. I feel like the blind tribalism at the start of the video is incredibly ironic considering the literal topic of the essay.
@@jimjimson6208 true, it’s like comparing different genres like saying Rap is better than Rock as if there isn’t bad Rap and bad Rock and good Rap and good Rock. Hate how people stick in one similar genre, instead of spreading out and listening, reading, watching and comprehending more than one genre.
@@JustBuyTheWaywardsRealms bruh. come on now,, ur literally doing what I talked about. Ignoring that there's good both from Hollywood and Japanese animation & that there isn't really one that is better than the other. You can enjoy stuff like the Demon Slayer Movie, but also hate 90% of most Isekai anime. Simultaneously you can enjoy Christopher Nolan Movies while also hating the dogshit movies that are spewed out of Hollywood. With you literally hand-picking Demon Slayer that you knew did good at the box office and was well-recieved vs a sub-par movie proves that you have chosen to ignore dog-shit adaptations so you can state something is better than something else when in actuality it isn't.
I always felt that Princess Mononoke was talking to me in a deeper sense, it quite so educated me to be more compassionate as I grew older and kept that movie close to heart. Princess Mononoke is a blessing.
I have watched Avatar twice. I remember my first watch being blown away by the visuals, but I hated the over all message of the movie because it just didn't "feel right" Though I was too young to fully understand why. When I watched it again a year ago with my wife (Who absolutely loves the movie) The felt same feeling of "This just doesn't feel right" rose in me again. I eventually expressed my feelings about the film to my wife who was a bit dismayed that I didn't like the movie as much as she did and you basically summarized the same conclusion about Avatar that I came to. Only I wish I had the comparison to Princess Mononoke to illustrate my argument more clearly. We namely got hung up on this lie that "The Na'vi were forced to fight the humans because the Humans left them no other choice." Which just isn't the case and I couldn't make the argument clear. My wife stated, that peace between the Na'vi and the Humans would basically be an idealistic pipe-dream. To which I said... Yes, it is idealistic, but it isn't impossible. Only difficult. That's what makes an "ideal" (aka, a higher way of thinking/acting) What irks me is that this supposedly "peaceful tribe" they didn't even try to make peace with humans (or if they did, we didn't see it in the film, but fact I'm left with the opposite feeling when you notice arrows in the tire of the vehicle at the beginning of the film.) Which just left me feeling like the Na'vi were just as barbaric of people as the humans were and in the end, just made me not want to root for either side in the conflict. Humans invading and destroying the land of it's native people vs the Na'vi feeling justified in resorting to violence just because our main protagonist gives them the knowledge on how they fight back. It just feeds into this narrow minded mentality in our culture that everything is always Good Guy vs Bad Guy, Oppressor vs Oppressed. "Defenseless Nature Lovers Goooood... Powerful Industrialists Baaaad." I love this insightful connection between Avatar and Princess Mononoke and I'm kind of shocked I wasn't able to draw a line between the two films. I completely agree with the arguments made regarding why these two films are different and how Princess Mononoke is simply the better, more thought out, film
I don't much like avatar either, but the actions of the na'vi are entirely reasonable given that the humans are invading. Fighting back against an invader doesn't make them barbaric, and it certainly doesn't make them just as barbaric as the humans, who are willing to do just about anything to them for the resource they're seeking.
The navi did try to make peace with the humans. Grace (the scientist) even set up a school, and taught them english. They had good relations until the RDA (greedy corporation) started destroying their home, and their sacred places. The navi were 100% ready to live peacfully with the humans. The humans are not the bad guys in Avatar. Capitalism and imperialism is. Greed and overconsumption is the bad guy. Im getting really fed up with so many people wildly misinterpreting everything about avatar, and shitting on it based on bad faith interpretations. Its driving me nuts seeing droves of people who didnt seem to be paying attention when they watched it, and are now calling it a terrible movie based on their own biases.
I feel like whats also important in Princess Mononoke is Ashitaka being one of the Emishi, indigenous Japanease that got wiped out. This really ties his origins to the movies themes
Really? I did not know that there was a different ethnic group within the islands of Japan other than the Ainu at the far North of Hokkaido and the Ryukyuan in the far south The latter in that it was once its own independent kingdom untill it was annexed by the Japanese in the late 1870s as part of the Meiji Restoration Yes I know right, even Japan did the same thing to its own ethnic minorities as the United States
@@rejvaik00 well before modern day japanese arrived there were several ethnic groups living there, Emishi is kind of an umbrella term as far as I'm aware, they seem to share some aspects with Ainu and the last Emishi integrated into Ainu societies
in pricess mononoke shows that all sides can be assholes if they do not control their own obsessions. The obsession of power, the obsession of revenge, the obsession to conquer nature. In avatar the ''good guys'' are cartoony good and the ''bad guys'' are cartoony bad so it can be easier for the audience to pick a side and say ''yea they are assholes, they should kill them all''. In one of the deleted scenes the navi assaulted a human convoy that was just minding their own business and killed them all in cold blood, and the assault to the tree was actualy a responce to that attack. It was deleted so the navi faction could keep their ''pureness and innocence'' as the only victims.
Not to mention the other deleted scenes where we find out that they don't have all that large of a security force, so they conscripted miners and other civilians to fight in that final battle. They said they took it out because they wanted "the human military to seem for formidable", but it seems more to me like it would be hard for an audience to enjoy watching barely trained civilians being eaten alive by dragons. Oh, and let's not forget that the Colonel enacted a military coup when the CEO guy tried to stop him from bombing the tree of souls.
Both are portrayed to have obsessions and being assholes, like when they didn't listen and to the doctor and Jake and tied them up and went to kill themselves. It was only after they bombed the Tree Jake took a side and decided to start killing. I'm sorry but you guys just want to see what you want to see.
@@sellerim6847 refusing to listen to someone you just found out was a spy sent by your enemy isn't exactly bad guy behavior, which is what we were talking about in regards to "being assholes".
I’m writing a series about Druids, Who are heavily tied with nature. However, I’m taking a more nuanced approach to their history and their relationship (and by extension humanity’s) with nature. In fact Princess Mononoke was one of the main inspirations for the main conflict in the story. In fact one of the first things That’s mentioned in the story is this “ nature is beautiful and cruel.”
Well done. Nature goes beyond trees and animals. It can't be that simple and I wish more adults would recognize that. We all play a part, whether we hate ourselves or not.
Yes, it is too about bugs, fungus, microscopic animals, algae... and we raze them too. Sorry but that of We are the dominant specie so we can destroy everyone else if we like sounds completely evil.
Instresting fact about 28:09 - in the german Version of princess mononoke, lady Eboshi says: "Does this right hand of yours try to take control of you and kill me?" (which is quite similar to the english version) and Ashitaka responds: "If it could lift the curse, i would do it with my left.". It`s just asmall difference, but this implies that Ashitaka is ready to actively kill Eboshi to free the world and not just let the curse do the work. I think the translaters did a grat job there, cause this dialog catches Ashitakas spirit early on and his threat in 24:05 becomes much more believeable :)
I can't believe I almost passed up this masterpiece of a video essay. I had no idea that Europe was being invaded at the same time as their invasion of the Americas. I had a rough idea of the time periods, but I think it's really easy to separate simultaneous events into chronologically distinct ones when they aren't put in reference to one another. Thank you for talking about this using such a fascinating comparison.
the perspectives of both humans and avatar should have been shown like princess Mononoke showing both party’s reasonings for what they do instead of being biased towards one side. that’s what I’ve gotten from this video I’m curious the point someone else got from this video was.
That is not the whole picture as well though... the problem wasn't the war. There was always war when two groups or ideologies were next to each other. For example the Roman Empire conquered large parts of the Germanic lands and later on some Germanic tribes conquered the Empire. Alexander conquered all of Mediterranea. The Reconquista for example is a conflict in this region at this time. They were used to that. The problem for Portugal for example was the loss of the Silk Road, because it meant a loss of luxury goods that strengthened the economy.
I agree. Ironically you can have a cartoonish evil villain and from their own pov they would have reasons at why they are doing things. Not that their is anything wrong with a simple villain, the classic kill the demon king story is fun and leaves time to focus on other things like the heroes. (In Avatar the humans would just strata bomb the planet with viruses and if tree magic stops it then just use napalm.)
Great points. In the Halo series, the war with the Covenant aliens caused the conflict between human worlds to be glossed over and somewhat pushed to the side. The spartens were actually created as antiterrorism warriors and just happened to come to adulthood around the time the aliens were invading. But my point is that in the books there was that conflict you mentioned between human wars, and even later games allowed a bit more nuance between factions witj the arbitor and the betrayal of the Elites.
@@512TheWolf512 No, they just wanted to write a cool space story about good and evil. They created the Insurrectionists without giving them much purchase in the games (apart from a few Marine stand-ins in Halo Reach) specifically to justify why the Spartans already existed by the time of first contact. That's why they were so evil with the whole nuking civilians thing.
I've never seen Princess Mononoke before, I imagined that it was gonna be like some average disney princess movie before I saw this video, and holy shit, the story sounds a lot better than I initially thought, and its pragmatic too.
Miyazaki films cannot be compared to Disney. They are way better. Some Disney movies are very insightful like Bambie II or Hunchback of Notre Dame. Maybe because they're passion projects not cash grabs. So no sexualization & other shit.
I always find it hilarious that people relate to Agent Smith's speech that "humans are a virus", when in The Matrix Reloaded, Smith basically turns into a virus.
Your careful finesse with explaining interwoven points in history and storytelling is unparalleled on RUclips, my friend. You do us all an incredible service and provide awesome entertainment. You're awesome, dude ✌💀
You perfectly put into words that strange feeling I got watching Princess Mononoke for the first time. Going into it, I thought I was getting that man bad vs nature good trope we had seen time and time again but as soon as Ashitaka arrives in Iron town the feel is completely different. Getting to know the industrial humans as humans and not just the villains of the movie was soooo strange and made it incredibly conflicting to side completely with one side for the rest of the movie. Of course you don’t have to side with San or Iron town, that’s the point, but we’re so used to being fed these black and white narratives.
Wow, that was probably one of the best videos that I have came across recently and it's not just because I am a Princess Mononoke superfan (lol!) It also explained how so many recent films (not just Avatar) lack depth and humanity that is present within conflict and just reduce conflict to a very black and white picture of supreme good versus absolute evil. Princess Mononoke teaches that war and conflict is complex with various factors that can even fall beyond the control of the people engaged in the struggle and also how quickly people pick sides, as Ashitaka was accused by both Eboshi and San for siding with their respective counterparts when in reality he was trying to see the best in both worlds. A very relevant message in today's cancel culture ridden world and where we are expected to jump to one side or another when it comes to political, economic or cultural divides. And kudos for pointing out about the importance about knowing and understanding about the history of humankind beyond the superficial "white man is evil, everyone else is good" stuff we get taught in our history classes nowadays, we cannot eliminate hate by using more hate but instead understand why people did the deeds they did in the past and use this understanding to prevent similar tragedies in the future. Finally, the historical summary you did at the end where you explored why the Europeans attacked the Native Americans and the Ottoman Empire's push into Europe, clearly, someone did their homework! As someone else may have suggested, Nausicaa (another personal favourite of mine) explores similar themes in a slightly different way from Princess Mononoke, that could be another one that you can dissect and explore the themes behind as well. Once again, a very insightful video not just about one of the greatest films of all time (change my mind lol) but also how important it us it is to review history from an unbiased point of view so that we can actually get closer to a world with less conflict and "to see with eyes unclouded with hate". That quote gives me the chills! Keep up the good work mate!
Wow, that was an extensive essay, thanks for your insight! I remember leaving the cinema with my friends being very disappointed. They all loved the film, I was annoyed. It's interesting how a poor ethos (character) in a work such as Avatar not only conveys a lesser (moral) message but in the end it produces defective "art". Here you can see that there is no resolution of the deeper conflict: the humans are pushed away by force to either invade other worlds or to return more heavily armed (or to face extinction as you noticed), the "natives" can't keep on living the same way so their "balance" by force has to tip (the interconnection of human action that you mentioned). Actually, now with that prelude, the sequel could give a better historical perspective, but that wouldn't make a better product by it self. An artist need deeper knowledge of the human nature to provide a better tension/conflict to the work that in time will resonate with the spectator as it resolves. Sadly, when ideology covers the roots of the conflict (as it happens in Avatar and many others) you get cheesy, bloated, nonsensical works that neither entertain nor provide a valid moral understanding.
As Pilgrim pointed The Last Air bender shares a simplistic view regarding the campaign of the fire nation. One might defend how it makes sense in the setting and from a world building standpoint (though I don't fully agree). It was pretty cheesy, as the Fire Lord as an antagonist to Aang (a cardboard dark lord archetype). But the conflict of the work (luckily) wasn't there, that's why the other Avatar worked (at least with me).
Sorry, didn't mean to post a second essay here, just wanted to add to the discussion . Thanks for your content, Pilgrim!
thank you for the video idea. it was brilliant.
@@PilgrimsPass Nah, my "idea" was just three words. You put the work and made something worth thanking
while ATLA can be called simplistic, it had its moments of maturity. Examples include Zuko and Azula's sincere character arcs, the fact that the fire soldiers and schools thought they were bringing prosperity to the world, the propaganda in the Fire Nation and Ba Sing Se, Jet and Hama's origin stories, motivations and subsequent actions, he clash of the two tribes, General's Fong's motivation, Wa Shi Tongs' disdain to humanity, the revelation that firebending is meant to be a tool for good, with the example of the Sun Warrors, (who weren't more moral than the imperalists, they just wanted peace), the fact that a genocide was shown in a kid's show, the sins of the Earth Kingdom, particulary in Ba Sing Se, the clash between Toph and her dad, Pakku's change of heart, Roku's and Kyoshi's mature reasoning, Long Feng's and the Dai li's motivation, the cabbage merchant's misfortunes, Aang's overlooked kills, and Ty Lee and Mei's motivation for sticking with Azula, (let us not forget the Ember Isles beach episode). The show showed that it was not all Fire Nation bad, rest of the world good, The its graphic novels and its less-beloved sequel series did the conflict of ideologies and moral complexity better though. As for the Fire Lord, well, there are some people who are born pychopaths and sociopaths. In the end, all nations were spared of destruction, though the graphic novels showed the hatred understandibly still remained. Overall, ATLA is still a great show, and does a relatively better job at this level of moral understanding than most children's cartoon shows.
@@flynnwhimster5371 it had really weird moments like how zuko is able to just claim the throne despite being a national traitor to his country and definitely not in the line of succession any more. And he is able to somehow be able to tell all of the military that they are forsaking 100 years of conquests. And not get over thrown
@@flynnwhimster5371 If I may clarify myself: what to my view point was the trope of the "evil empire" that the fire nation portrayed in the show. You are right that the last air bender has some mature themes (such as a state that lies to the children in the classrooms, or the repression and invisibilisation of descent etc). Though I must say that mature themes and narrative simplicity aren't mutually exclusive, the show is great in many aspects. The only thing that doesn't work in the same level, is the fire nation/lord that as an antagonist lacks the depth that the show has in many other regards. Thanks for keeping the discussion going, I don't have many other venues to talk about this, so I enjoy reading and answering (though I know it might take some time ^^;;)
not only does Ashitaka not take sides, but he is constantly ACCUSED of taking sides by BOTH SIDES and still manages to stay objective. A true chad.
Hated him all the show. He hasn't done anything good, except his moralistic bla-bla-bla, when Eboshi have helped and saved hundreds of people
@@sychuan3729 I honestly think that works. If you go by the apparent timeline of the movie, he's only *been* there for a very short while before being asked to take sides; I can't really blame him for essentially going "Mate, I just got here. I'm still trying to figure out what's going on."
@@MagnusVictor2015 It would be OK, if he wasn't shown like some kind of hero who explains to stupid people that they need not live in hate. But it was obvious for everybody. Does he provide any real advice? what Eboshi should have done to "not live in hate"? Does he helped people with lepra, does he helped former prostitutes who were now living in Eboshi city?
@@sychuan3729 Yeah, i cant believe he didnt just solve all their problems, what a dick.
@@sychuan3729 I think him simply keeping the peace was a big change, without him the outcome might have been full fledged war and blood shed
In an interview, Miyazaki pointed out something simple yet profound "Humans find things in nature that are useful for them and try to protect those things. But nature is brutal and unforgiving and has so many things that are not useful to us humans." Its one of the reasons why the animals/creatures in Mononoke are not cute or have cuddly features to them. They are savage, creepy but also majestic and dignified.
I thought this was about Nausicaa?
@@treee6145 i dont exactly remember in which reference he said it but his points are visible in both Nausicaa and Mononoke. He never tried to sugarcoat the brutality of nature. In a way, Mononoke was his spiritual sequel to Nausicaa.
Very cool. Reminds of what Heidegger had to say about our relationship with technology, and thus with nature. The irony is that Princess Mononoke explores this more than a giant sci-fi with mechs, interplanetary travel, body-swap chambers etc.
Folks from the city that talk about respecting nature, never actually lived in one, nor could survive in it.
everything in nature is trying to kill you. we've just gotten better and better at surviving by defeating nature. but people want some environmental utopia, not realizing how many people will die in that utopia from what would have been avoidable and preventable causes.
I was really impressed with the maturity of the writers of Princess Mononoke to be able to make the antagonists, like Lady Eboshi, wrong but not evil.
I could only dream of what Avatar could’ve been if the writers were like that
@@hundredfireify I don't know about infinity war, sure thanos is the big bad but his motivations and character were far more damning than any other villain in the MCU
@@hundredfireify Ah
@@hundredfireify Also, if Thanos’s plan was to halve ALL life in the universe, wouldn’t that include animals? (And possibly plants, if he halved all organic life, I don’t remember if he specified sentience or not.) So, like. He’s trying to solve limited resources, but he just wiped out half the livestock, too? It’s just such a stupid plan.
@@hundredfireify facts, dumbest plan ever. If he was so concerned about a lack of resources why not just snap in double, triple, quadruple resources instead of snapping away half the universe's population.
As a little note: The Na'vi are way too idealized, and there are deleted scenes in Avatar where they're a bit more bloody. These scenes were literally deleted to over-idealize the blue people.
Tbf, in the movie, we see Jake's future baby mama about to murder him with a neurotoxin for trespassing while obviously lost and trying to fight off predators. It's only when her "god" steps in that she decides not to kill him.
I remember a videogame based on Avatar, and when you choose to play as human, Na'Vi are not just ideal tribesmen but savage beasts who will wipe out research facilities full of unarmed harmless scientists who were just studying plants and don't blink an eye
@@pffpffovich2398 The Avatar game added a lot to the lore. I loved the game and got all endings including the one where you choose to side with the Na'Vi as a human. Even when your a Na'Vi they are still complete dick heads and Harper makes you want to strangle his ass. The General also had his character change in a much more positive way as well.
There's so many deleted scenes that should have received priority over the kitty-kitty-bang-bang. There is also a good explanation for why the humans are so desperate for unobtainium. I don't recall the details now, but it was the key to saving Earth.
@@trishapellis Room temperature superconductor. Would've solved the energy crisis and made it viable to inhabit other planets
Finally, a person who doesn't just say "Human bad." But actually understands we are a part of nature too.
@Malice To be fair, a lot of people with this mindset have it because they have been misguided by the media, for example one of the characters in the Matrix says humans are the only creature that don't strive for an equilibrium with the environment and there's a whole part about how if you put humans in an ideal world they'll destroy it, which is ironic considering we're the only species to try to limit our damaging behaviour for the sake of wildlife and mice were put in a utopia for an experiment and they ended up turning on each other, truth is, all animals would because it's a survival instinct to find problems, because they we can solve them and be more likely to survive, heck, that's even why rich and privileged people complain about things that don't matter, their brains are trying to find problems for survival but they can't find any legitimate ones so they have to complain about mundane things.
"Really?.. *cocks gun* think again bitch"
-Someone who might say this
Indeed, I've brought that up to many a person. IF we are merely evolved animals like any other, is this not our world as much as it is there? Are we not just fitting into nature where we've carved out our place like all the other animals?
Yeah, I've noticed a lot of movies are like that. Like Witcher the monsters are all sympathetic, but the humans are seen as a black and white morality.
Lol but humans are for the most part bad. Avatar is not ground breaking by any means but at least that part was and always will be true. Princess Mononoke is a beautifully animated film but I found myself annoyed with the protagonist.
I really like when Ashitaka falls unconscious and the wolf straight up goes to rip his head off, no fancy "we're all friends now" crap, they were holding back only because their sister ordered them to
Yup. Terrifying. And real. *chefs kiss*
Dude his head was in that wolf's mouth for like a full second and a half and he got in like 2 or 3 head shakes and he came out of that unscathed. Funniest part of the whole movie and it comes outta nowhere.
@@saltylemon4436That red hood can block arrows for that
😂 lol yeah I remember that, that was wild first time seeing
Not to mention Sans own wolf mother outright telling Ashitaka *"I was hoping you'd cry out in your sleep. Then I would've bitten your head off to silence you."* While he's recovering under San's watch. The forest creatures (save for the kodama cuz they're sweet lil beans) make it clear that they *do not like him AT ALL* and if not for his good deeds toward saving San from Iron Town and putting down Nago and San's own protection he would have been dead 10 times over by the very same forest creatures. And he doesn't take it personally, in fact I dare say he takes it all in stride, in his eyes they have every reason to not like or even trust him as humans have brought them nothing but pain, destruction, misery and hardship.
One of the many things I love about Mononoke is the fact that, despite the ending being so open, the conflict still ongoing, so many threats still active, it is distinctively *not* a sad ending. It's a hopeful one.
I disagree, Mononoke is a definitely pessimistic movie, Ashitaka tries his best to make peace but ultimately fails, the forest, nature, the old ways, are all definitely fucked. The god of nature is dead, and while there is a small hope that the trees might come back, but Iron Town will start up again and continue natural resource extraction at full steam.
Miyazaki made Mononoke in his post-marxist period. Lady Eboshi's Iron Town is an egalitarian industrial society represents the marxist utopia, while the monetary interests of the emperor, samurai, and mercenaries represent the western capitalist powers. Iron Town is portrayed as being ethically superior alternative to western capitalism, but, as egalitarian as it is, it is still fundamentally incompatible with the natural world. The industrial mode of production, no matter how egalitarian it might be, means doom for the environment.
@@wangana5955 I also disagree: at the end it's implied that Lady Eboshi wants to try again with Iron Town, this time having Ashitaka around to make sure they follow a path that respects nature. Maybe it's a bit unrealistic, but I think that's where the hope lies in the ending.
@@wangana5955Isn't what spurns iron town to overconsume and become incompatible with nature the fact the western imperial forces exist to push them that way?
@@FateBringsMe2U the japanese empire forced iron town to grow technologically, forcing them to burn the forests for iron. If the animal gods worked with iron town to fend off the empire, I'm sure things could've worked out better for them both.
@@realsanmer Umm did we watch the same movie? She’s looking to do better this time, that’s the only thing anyone can ask of her, she has a duty to her people, a duty that has only grown now that the lepers have been cured, the fact that she’s not leading everyone into that forest to burn it to the ground is a true victory for the side of peace, instead she’s trying to find the balance between respecting the forest and helping her people that’s what we call character growth and a happy ending.
Mononoke does what Avatar failed to do: take the man vs nature story with an unbiased perspective. Ashitaka doesn't just blindly side up with nature simply because of an attractive wolf girl, he understands both sides and tries to get them to understand each other.
He also understood the plight of civilian women and how Ebisu is trying to rehabilitate terminally I'll or social outcasts . Ashitaka is the GOAT .
the main difference is in Avatar theres nothing good about the human imperalist mission on Pandora, so diplomacy is not an option
@@francescomalagoli2467is preserving ones species not good?
@@JackRogers-x9e not destroying another species home. A species that lives thanks to being fascists in Space doesnt deserve to being preserved
Mononoke hime is about balance. Avatar is about selling a product while enacting a performative environmental message.
When addressing the anti-colonialism narrative, I love bringing up the Tlaxcalans.
You know, the people that were systematically harvested for human sacrifices.
*They joined the Spanish almost instantly to help take down the Aztecs. There were more Tlaxcalan fighters than Spanish!*
Conquistadors vs Aztecs is two evil empires fighting, not the innocent Aztecs being attacked by evil Spaniards
Similar things happened here in the Inkan Empire. Several tribes or descendents of tribes under Inka rule immediately joined the Spanish. Some people view them as traitors, but it was their path to freedom from a tyrannical regime
From one tyrant to another.
@@thekinginyellowmessiahofha6308 it was mostly oppressed peoples fighting an evil empire, with help from another evil empire that would immediately replace the original evil empire.
@@deriznohappehquite so a nuanced history of human flaws and cruelty that has existed since we learned to harvest and kill each other?
To be fair with The Last Airbender, the show ended up subverting the whole narrative it established in the beginning with the Fire Nation being cartoon villains. In season 1, we were introduced to Jet, who ended up being a fanatical "freedom fighter" willing to slaughter a whole town of innocent civilians, and in Seasom 2 it was the Dai Lee of Ba Sing Se, which was more or less just the Gestapo with a little bit of KGB/CIA mixed in with that MK Ultra type s**t they were doing. And season 3 spent nearly its entire length giving perspective from the Fire Nation's side, showing us that there were plenty of good people within the Fire Nation living under a totalitarian regime, as well as of course giving us the conclusion of Zuko's redemption arc. We also gotta remember that everyone's favorite Uncle Iroh was once a Fire Nation general that besieged Ba Sing Se, and it was only the death of his son (a death that occurred during the said siege he was responsible for) that led to his disillusionment with the Fire Nation leadership and the war it was waging.
Is this a joke
@@Artist-Lover You haven't watched the show if you think this is a joke.
@@jonathanoriley8260 no i just mean joke as in it's the avatar movie in the video not the show...
@@Artist-Lover He mentioned The Last Airbender in the video, and that mention is what I addressed. Did you watch the video in its entirety? lol
@@Artist-Lover its true, in this video he did bring up AtLaB
I'm sick and tired of the fools who insist that humans are the "most evil creature" or something, that no other creature would do what we do and they all live in balance. Great to hear someone finally say that yeah, as countless invasive species have shown, animals naturally exploit for their own benefits; the reason they "live in balance" is because even the apex animals have sufficient opposition that they can't get the sort of upper hand humans have. It's basically a race that wasn't designed to be won. Somehow, we won, but the great power and control that we won requires an equal amount of care and caution. With great power comes great responsibility. I know it's cliche, but that doesn't mean it isn't a fundamental truth.
Nature is an equilibrium. Opposing forces of predator/prey and similar competing relationships push against each other until neither can go any further. People mistake this as some kind of self-imposed balance, but they are completely wrong. If one side goes away, then the other side keeps going, filling the vacuum, until it hits another opposing force strong enough to stop it.
The people who insist humans are the most evil creatures don't know shit about zoology
There were a bunch of monkeys in UP i think they took human babies and threw them off windows while they assaulted the parent and the people who commented on the news were like humans are evil we stole their homes now they want it back its natural for them to wipe out their competition
And honestly i was so disgusted by the comment.
Lets be honest if dolphins were as intelligent as us it would make us look like saints
But humans ARE most evil, because only humans know what "evil" is. They do evil knowing they do it. The animals don't have any morality systems, but people do have them. That's the difference.
As an Indigenous American man, thank God another Human understands these concepts/differences. Thank you for making this video. That line has always resonated with me; eyes unclouded by hate. I wish more would spend their lifes work in persuit of that.
Are those two films comparable to _Pocahontas_ (Disney Version)?
You're not a native "American". You're native to a small region of a land mass. Natives from one region of that land mass attacked others who were native to other regions of the same land mass. I am not native to all of Europe, I am native to a small region of a land mass that shares a cold climate with the rest of the land mass.
My favourite movie on the subject would probably be Apocalypto.
@VladTepes-SaviorofEurope-mw4uy It's a catch-all term, dude. If they want to refer to their self as indigenous American, that's fine.
@@VladTepes-SaviorofEurope-mw4uy The Injuns are indigenous Americans, as are the descendants of the Pilgrim Fathers. Just like how both the Celts and the Anglo-Saxons are indigenous Britons.
It's only the DEcolonists who aren't welcome.
This self hate of the West is really harming because it gets in the way of the solution. I am also from South America, here many of the indigenous people hate more the descendants of the spanish rather than the spanish themselves.
This is because the spanish actually tried to preserve indigenous culture and incorporate them into their society (though they failed a lot). However, after the independence, many states bagan a campaign of genocide towards the native americans.
Even today, what many of the indigenous people want is to have access to the western medicines and educational system, not to be left alone without assistance.
How can James Cameron spread stupid messages like that when so many people on both sides died tying to accomplish Ashitaka's mission? It really shows how much he disrespects the cultures he supposedly wants to help.
Yea, if there's one things the natives in most cases wanted it was guns and medicine.
The Navee ignoring any material trade even if it would make their lives easier and longer lived is unrealistic. Chances are they would have taken the guns and medicine to fight their neighbours over hunting rights, while humanity used the proxy war to extract resources. Then it's short sightedness leading to issues as relations with the Navee broke down over territorial control.
its white saviourism at its finest and a rehashing of pocahontas, which in and of itself is a racist revisionist story that omits that pocahantas was pretty much a child sex slave kidnapped, conditioned, and put on display by john smith (absolute nonce)
The west does this all the time, they vilify but the direction isn't actually towards themselves, it's a sort of "everyone is as bad as us"
Same here in Mexico. In 1821 after the war of independence, only 1/4 of the population spoke Spanish.
The independent government systematically destroyed indigenous culture, took away indigenous people's lands and rights, displaced them from their homes and communities... And the government's response to this day is blame what happened 500 years ago for what they are causing and defending _now._
The Spaniards were no saints, but they weren't the biggest threat to the indigenous people. Why the fuck else would they have joined them against the Mexica empire? And even then, that war was not the "systematic genocide" everyone believes... It was almost entirely a war between local communities... And Montezuma's royal family got the chance to flee to Spain, where his descendants still live to this day.
See, that would have been much more interesting.
"I guess what Jake Sully needed was a hot human female on the Industrial side, that way he would have the incentive to _not lead a race war."_
So accurate it hurts
Guessing you just can not have a cute catgirl on human side.(Might be wrong
@@MeowMeowRanger bro if they can replace peoples' spines cat ears are probably an outpatient procedure
@@MrJstorm4 hell they bioengineered Navi/human hybrids, I wouldn’t doubt they can make catgirls a reality
Humanity's first interstellar war really could've been avoided if Quaddarch (military guy, don't know how to spell his name) had given Jake genetically engineered human catgirl cheeks.
The Na'vi aren't even hot. They look like Xeno furries.
Another cool thing about this movie is that Ashitaka's village appears to be in what I presume to be Iron age technologically and Jomon culturally speaking, while Mononoke lives in a more Neolithic style and Lady Iboshi and Irontown living in the sengoku period, adding to Ashitaka's middle of the road perspective.
This!!
No its confirmed the era taked plave in muromachi period or 1500s
@@carissaap7003 yes! Otherwise Irontown would not be in that level of development as their enemies but I mean how it looked like for our three human main characters.
well said
Ashitaka is stated to be emishi by the other characters.
I always thought it interesting that Ashitaka's infection/curse seemed to make him more powerful on the occasions where he had to use violence, but every use made the infection/curse worse. Even when he was defending himself or saving villagers, simply using violence let the infection spread a little more.
And even at the end, when he was healed, he still wasn't completely cured and that small amount of curse was left literally in his hands.
Goes to show that the people that say "violence is not the answer!" are slightly wrong.
Violence is a valid answer, and one that can work very well in certain cases, but it always takes a part of you, it's never for free.
In Ashitaka's case, it was made very clear, as it would lead the hatred of the curse to consume him faster. That's also an interesting way to see it, as even he, the hero of the story, would still be consumed by the hatred, even if he really fought it out with all his will. That is because he's human. While we can slow down the curse of hatred or even minimize it like how it happened with him at the end, it will never disappear. We just have to be strong to never let it overcome us.
@@Burn_Angel “You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you’re capable of great violence, if you’re not capable of violence you’re not peaceful, you’re harmless”
@@jeffmadmastermind3907 I think you meant "pacifist", but yeah, you got the gist of it.
No, peaceful is the correct term. Thus the phrase 'Walk softly with a very big stick", and the other phrase: 'It is the quiet one that will get you'.@@Burn_Angel
@@BrokensoulRider The first phrase represents a pacifist very well. The second one, though, doesn't imply peace at all, it just means "You'll get sneak attacked".
My grandmother is Cherokee. I have always hated Avatar for its noble savage bs. The Cherokee had slaves before Columbus, and fought for the Confederacy in the US Civil War. The one thing this analysis missed, and it is otherwise perfect, is that indigenous people often embraced the colonizer's technology and aspects of the colonizer's culture. Where are the pro-human Na'vi using human technology? In the mind of the people who made avatar, native culture is completely reduced to "being one with nature," to the point they think you're not indigenous enough if you, idk, prefer computers to trees. I hate camping. That doesn't make me less Cherokee.
See the second movie.
Navi are stealing humans weapons and using everytime more of their tech.
Too the army avatars are adopting navi culture that helps them.
The process of mutual influence is being shown.
Tell me , how many amazonian natives are in reality helping mining and lumber companies to destroy their land, unless completely aculturated?
I dont know how much cherokee u are after all the aculturation ur people has suffered. I think u are probably more english than cherokee.
I agree with you. But the two Avatar movies are parts of a bigger plot. Heard that the third movie is going to feature villainous Na'vi and heroic humans. Lets wait and see.
@@steffimaier7297 let's hope so. But fuck me if that movie is gonna take another decade.
@@toledochristianmatthew9919 I think its gonna be released December 2024.
Whatever the Cherokee were is lost to time and you are an average US citizen no more no less.
I absolutely despise the “humans bad” trope. It makes me feel like nobody wants to improve and instead views our existence as a disease.
I am a human, and it kinda hurts feeling like the world would be better off without me. Why can’t we celebrate our existence while acknowledging our flaws? If we’re not hopeful or motivated, nothing is going to change.
You're free to become a rice farmer or something and stop being part of the cause of the current ecological collapse lol.
@@averagedemocrat9546 Assuming this isn’t a joke, I think you missed the point of my comment.
I’m not saying we aren’t the ones causing issues. I’m saying that I think constant cynicism and “we’re worthless pieces of shit” isn’t good for mental health.
We should use our place in nature as a way to motivate us to save our planet. I think having a hopeful view will make people feel as though it’s possible in the first place. Because I think it is.
@@averagedemocrat9546 if you hate humanity and think humans should die, start with yourself and stop using the tools generated by those with positive vision.
Thank you, alien, for trying to encourage us, but humanity has the issue of failing their way to success throughout history.
@averagedemocrat9546 humanity has been around for less than 10,000 years. The earth has had life for millions, while we are making an impact, can we really be sure we’re the main propellant of Earth? I mean, in the 70’s they said there would be an ice age in 2012. I think the 90’s said all the ice caps would be melted in the next ten years, yet assuming current trends stay constant in the dynamic world we live, the polar ice caps wouldn’t melt for another fifty years. The planet is dynamic, mind you. The biggest things we’ve caused to the planet are the extinctions of many species. This is a normal occurance, many plants and prey have gone extinct due to the animals that feast on them.
princess mononoke is such a kind movie. nobody gets excessively villainized, everyone has their own perspectives that are understandable, the narrative doesn't pick out a specific faction to demonize and punish by the end. I feel like it's extremely rare for this to ever happen in fiction.
Historian here. One of the single most infuriating attributes I often see in those historically illiterate or even my own colleagues, is that of the good vs. evil mindset. Often I will hear a group of people (often Native Americans) get lumped together as though they were of a singular mind, cohesive and peaceful. This is simply not true, as evident with the Comanches (I’m from Texas, it’s personal). This narrow minded view becomes a dangerous game, as people are willing to then call yourself wicked for removing mere wickedness from the conflict, as one would be hard pressed to find a historical conflict that was simply the righteousness against malice. Such conflicts exist only in the spiritual world, and we will not be a part of them until we die.
I personally am more versed in the medieval world, particularly the Welsh Dark Ages and Norse culture, but I see the patterns that reverberated in the Americas. Nothing is new, and to say otherwise is foolhardy.
Your videos are important, as the clear emphasis you place on nuance needs to be further addressed. I continue to be more and more impressed with each video you release, though I will tell you to continue delving into your topics, as many will try to discredit your message.
I wish you all the luck in the world.
Yeah I'm part Cherokee and live near the eastern reservation and I can promise you that historically, the tribes tended to hate each other pretty viscously. For some reason people like to think they were all innocent victims and they DEFINITELY were not. They were too busy killing each other right up to the point they realized that the Americans were coming and even then, they weren't very happy about having to put aside age old differences. The tribes fought over everything, hunting ground, fertile soil, grazing land, But some one else? Nah, only THOSE guys are evil!
...people are stupid.
@@palladiamorsdeus so basically the same story where groups of humans live all over the world.
so strange how people can't understand that humans are nuanced animals.
Absolutely, certain tribes just hated each other and the tribes that didn't still fought for honor, hunting grounds, or just to take. And that was without the U.S. army intervening and settlers coming along, after that things get even more crazy. If anyone wants an idea of how complicated things can get, just read about the Treaty of Fort Laramie, I'd say that was a huge mess that perfectly disproves any black and white narrative one might have.
@@palladiamorsdeus _"They were too busy killing each other right up to the point they realized that the Americans were coming and even then, they weren't very happy about having to put aside age old differences."_
I can't attest to the over historical accuracy of the movie, but I really liked Apocalypto, and for some reason the twist ending of the movie really blew me away in a way that no other movie ever has. Just sort of this concept of having normal human conflicts and struggles, intergroup conflict on a scale that can be understood, and then this outside context problem shows up out of the blue. Obviously it doesn't make everybody "become friends to fight the new enemy" very often in real life. I imagine it was similar to when Genghis Khan united the Mongols and went on to conquer half of Eurasia in a single generation. Or during Islam's most expansionistic periods when it conquered half of Europe, all those Europeans were still fighting each other the whole time.
I'm no historian, but I am fond of history in general. Got any fun Welsh Dark Ages or Norse facts to share with the world?
I'd like to point out that the Na'vi use their head-tails to mind control animals and they act like this is a respectable, mystical, symbiotic relationship. When Jake is taken to "choose" his Icran (spelling might be shoddy), Natiri says that he'll know the Icran is "destined" for him because it will try to kill him. These animals somehow "know" that someone is going to come along and move them around like a meat puppet and they act in self-defense. I have a problem with this whole system. The Na'vi don't live in harmony with nature, they utterly dominate nature in a way humans could never hope to. A well-trained, well-behaved dog can still refuse an order if it really wants. Do the Icran regain control over their own bodies if their controller is about to do something really stupid? What does that make Ewa? A sentient collection of all the dead Na'vi, to be able to "send" all the fauna to risk their lives because one species wants it? Mind control is not harmony, it's intrusion.
Well at least you take the movie seriously, that's plenty respect for them movie makers.
Never considered that, but youre right, this is the greatest violation of free will, basically mind control
to master nature is to use every resources at your will without ever destroying it so it can regrow
In few words they are living vehicles.
Mind controlling peacefull blue Aliens, where have i heard that before
Just a little nitpick here:
Mononoke is not actually a name, but a word describing a vengeful monster of sorts that has no direct translation into English. So Princess Mononoke could be translated as the vengeful princess of monsters or somesuch, which is how the people from Iron Town certainly view the girl living with the wolves.
Her actual name is San... which comes with it's own baggage of potential symbolism, but let's not go into that. ^^
So she's also to be respected in a way right? like the honorific -San implies a respected person?
@@beardfistthegoldenone7273 I don't think that's the case here.
As a suffix -san is like miss or missus (or mr in case of males), but only as a suffix to another name, not when standing by itself.
Then again she was raised by wolves, who may not understand the intricacies of the Human language.
So maybe the wolves heard Humans call each other x-san and y-san, so they called their findling just San. Kinda like the arabic character in the 13th Warrior ended up called Ibn by the vikings, even though ibn meant "son of" from him introducing himself as X ibn Y ibn Z (sorry don't remember his, his father's and his grandfather's names...).
Though san is also Japanese for three. And with her having two wolf siblings, she might just be literally called three for being the third child of her adoptive parents.
@@Norbert_Sattler Wow great theories and thank you for your insight! You clearly know your business.
@@Norbert_Sattler
I'm pretty sure it is because she's Moro's third child. Though her siblings' names are never given, it's safe to assume that their names are (for now at least) One and Two.
Just referring to her as an honorific is like calling your kid Ms. Not Miss, which would be calling her girl/lady, but Ms. Despite the connotations in combination with other words, it means nothing by itself and is an odd choice for a native speaker or more importantly a native speaking audience. (A significant difference from the Vikings using Ibn.) Plus there are several kanji that by themselves can be pronounced "san" if they meant anything but "third child".
@@BonaparteBardithion Yes, I agree... in fact I pretty much stated the same thing already, albeit as I also said, we don't know how well the Wolves grasp the Human language and naming schemes, so while to a native speaker it wouldn't make sense to name a child with only the suffix and nothing in front, who can really tell how wolf gods would think of the matter.
Just like the Vikings in my example didn't understand Arabic, the wolves might just not grasp the full or even ANY meaning and use of a name-suffix and just think it's part of the Humans names.
I doubt any Human would just randomly wander into the forest to teach animal gods proper Japanese grammar. ^^
The biggest problem Avatar has is that its core gimmick undermines its whole message. The supposedly evil and greedy humans put the time and effort needed to create Avatar bodies in an effort to treat diplomatically with a race of primitive shoot-on-sight xenophobes. Jakes whole job was to earn their trust and explain what the humans needed because no one before that point was given the chance, but he betrayed his own people to chase alien tail.
Turning up at someone's door dressed in their clothing, wielding a gun, and asking to talk is still turning up at someone's door with a gun.
@@Lotan_ If Hollywood made a movie where advanced aliens showed up to earth in need of something that would save their civilization the humans would certainly be depicted as the villains for shooting on sight and snubbing all attempts at diplomacy.
@@elitemook4234is this a joke? If aliens showed up, strip mined the earth under where we got our food from, walked around in human bodies, then did a 9/11 we would be the baddies for fighting back?
@@Sudderdwn If Hollywood made the movie, yes.
@@elitemook4234 considering their current trend, yes, they totally would
When people speak of Native Americans living in harmony with nature, they forget how brutal nature really is. All cultures began with similar technological constraints, forcing the same "harmony." The ones in Europe, Asia and North Africa simply developed faster than those in the Americas.
I mean even hunter gatherers aren't in harmony with nature, look at the megafuanal extinctions! Native americans wiped out mammoths all the same.
Yes, but who was Europe to determine that they should live a certain way? If they wanted to advance them, they could have just left tools and/or commenced trade.
@@antonioramirez8086 In an age when Europeans were constantly trying to kill and conquer each other, it's rather nonsensical to think they would treat more primitive peoples any better. Even the Church believed they were acting for the sake of Natives souls when they tried to convert them. That's just the morality of the time.
This whole living in harmony with nature is actually a Hollywood thing lol
Like the weather In Canada in winter it made see pity on how native Americans and Canadians survived , like it needed the western culture to find a way to survive.
Avatar: Humans bad. We should be like the Na'vi and link our minds to the nature goddess who can micro manage the whole world!
Princess Mononoke: Yeah, this shit is complex, there's problems and benefits on both sides. You have to hear out both sides to understand the full situation.
Avatar is probably a Human alien dick measuring contest.
And in the end both movies end with both sides killing each other.
I find 35:15 entertainingly interesting.
@@adamnesicobut hey at least now you understand the full situation and if you're writing something, that practice of seeing multiple perspectives can create some good characters and stories
@Adamnesico yes, as in the end, that IS nature, the only way for a living being g to survive is to kill another, the point of it is tge slow the killing and not let it get out if control.
As no matter what we can never break free from nature as we are design to have to kill to survive, just as nature does to itself, we are part of it and can never be free from it, and will always abide by its most basic rules to kill one another in the end.
"...The humans you're trying to eliminate were created here and are a part of nature, too. We are, therefore, a part of the Earth. Tell me, how can you revive the Earth if you forgot this crucial fact?!"
"We too are a part of nature, and eliminating humanity... is the same as destroying nature... I have come to realize that I was about to make the same mistake again!"
Quotes from an anime about giant robots punching each other in the face.
i need to see this, title pls
@@Vtgaming-v6c Mobile Fighter G Gundam
Char Aznable: Earthnoids? You mean acceptable casualties?
@@SleepTastesGood thank you
False. If Humanity was Wiped out, the Earth can begin to heal as humanity has become a Parasite to the Planet causing Mass extinction to other native animals.
All animals hint each other but Nature ensures they don't go extinct from being hunted alone such as Camouflage and other ways of avoiding predators.
Humans are now a cancer cell. A mass extinction of Humanity can only bring wonders to Nature as it reclaims the planet.
I'm glad you discussed the reason why the Europeans started their colonizations in the first place. That is a topic not really talked about, and should be discussed more. Not many people know about the role the Ottomans blocking trade routs and invading European lands played in the reason why the Europeans sought out new places to gather resources in the first place.
it wasn't even all of Europe, it was like 5, 6 countries. The rest was too busy trying not to get colonized themselves or whiped out of existence (my country didn't exist for 123 years and disappeared off of maps because other countries decided to partition it between each other) But Americans seem to believe there's only like 10 countries in the entire of Europe
omg a country exist other than europeans, how tragic, lets validate sad europeans colonizing the world
@@TheAkwariumOh, so You're from Poland too?
@@minedantaken1684 yes
These are facts. Europe was a horrible place to be for the best part of our existence on this planet. So many people and borders cramped into one space with an envious eye from the east fuelling conflict after conflict. Sure 17th - 19th century colonialism was terribly unjust however it was just another domino in a long line of oppression. It doesn't wash away the guilt of Anglo Europeans but it does help us reason and come to terms with our own nature so we don't repeat history. That's something that's sorely missing in mainstream media and politics. Too quick to paint the world in black and white. When really it's all grey.
Fun fact: Ashitaka's main weapon, the bow, is a hybrid of the wepons of nature (using wood and sinew for the bow itself, feathers wood and wood for the arrows) and civilisation (technology required to make a bow that is reliable and doesn't snap, iron arrowheads, quivers and training to use it). Even small details like that show that he's between the sides.
Bows are the simplest weapons a human can produce (compared to swords or guns) and we associate them with tribes
@@xelldincht4251
Idk what this has to do with the ops cool observation (also pretty sure slingshots might be simpler but idk). But I think expanding on the ops point, not only is it a blend of the two but you can create a bow without harming nature which again allows him to stay completely neutral.
Even that's misguided because both materials involve the harvesting of natural resources.
@@ambrosekillpack4841Even then you can just scavenge the sinew from an animal killed by anoher animal, the wood from trees that are in the process of dieing or got hit by lightning. You can get the needed resources while still staying neutral in the conflict of technology vs nature by using both partially. If the sinew is from an already dead animal and the wood is harvested normally via a saw it only reinforces my point of it being the hybrid, the mix of the 2.
@@ambrosekillpack4841
not really. With one tree you can make a lot of bows and a forest has many trees
Something that's also interesting is that in terms of biology, the Na'vi are very different from the other Pandoran animals. The Pandoran animals have six limbs, breathe through openings on their chests, have four eyes and no hair. The Na'vi, however, have four limbs, nostrils, and hair. This could be because of two things- either James Cameron didn't care about consistent biology when making his world and wanted more relatable and attractive humanoids for his aliens, or the Na'vi are not native to Pandora. The latter would mean that the ecosystem of Pandora took a foreign species and assimilated it to the point where it became fully integrated with the life on Pandora. Now, this could have been used to show a species that once followed the path humanity is taking in the film instead chose to reject tech, return to nature. However, there is a more insidious option.
The Na'vi could have essentially been biologically hijacked by the sentient ecosystem of Pandora, perhaps using a preexisting biological quirk of the proto-Na'vi. (Maybe they already had something like the bio-internet that could be bred to more closely resemble the Pandoran system). This previously advanced race could have been assimilated into the system to prevent them from rising above it and dominating it, or even remaining independent from it. This could have been through self defense, but perhaps Eywa cannot suffer anything that is not itself living on the same world. The population of the Na'vi is controlled, they are kept primitive to keep then in their place on the food chain. Their symbiosis is to keep them, with their human- like intelligence and craftiness, from violating Eywa's status quo.
However, why didn't Eywa try this on the humans? For two reasons- humans would die too quickly to adapt to the system due to the poisonous atmosphere, and we don't have that starting point neural network that the theoretical proto Na'vi have. So the only other option would be to force these invading creatures out. Perhaps the essentially hive mind of Pandora used the Na vi to study and seduce the humans who had inadvertently entered the ecosystem through the avatars to force the normal humans out to die. Perhaps Eywa is not a nurturing Mother Nature, but a mother who begets only to devour. Similar to C.S. Lewis's Conditioners, who free humanity from its human nature only for what is left to be enslaved by the base of nature itself. By destroying human ethos and technology, we become enslaved to the very nature that impelled us to develop the instruments we used to dominate it.
Sorry for the rambling, this was a fascinating video and it just made me put a few things together. Thanks!
Come on uy, for Eywa the humans were the same as for us are the parasites.
You can blame a sentient planet to treat humans as we treat parasites infecting our body.
Now THAT is a good observation
Such a good comment. Big thumbs up for doing so much more work delving into the ramofications of the concepts of Pandora than the movie does.
You should have written the sequel. I'm betting the actual sequel will be more of the same simplistic crap from the first one.
I was reading Avatar 2's Wikipedia page and came across a human who was a captain of an ocean hunting ship. I wonder if they will have humans senselessly slaughtering animals they cannot eat. If they are smart the hunters will be killing apex predators to protect underwater miners. If the humans are really mining underwater it would be a major concession to leave the surface to the Navi, a peace offering of sorts. However, the writers will probably screw it up with irrationally evil humans and more "reject civilization, return to nature" messaging.
“Ok so our resources are diminishing and if that happens there will be a huge humanitarian crisis so please be our ambassador to ask for more resources for our people”
*Betrays his own starving people and doesn’t try to do a compromise as he was tasked to simp for a native female*
This is Avatar from James Cameron, one of the best selling movies of all times.
To be fair, Jake had plenty of reasons to ditch the humans even before the plot kicked off. That movie really hated humans in general.
Ahh yes, let's consume the cosmos. Anyone who stands in the way of our hunger is a traitor!
@@zeamaiz945 For the Emperor! Wait, wrong franchise.
@@zeamaiz945 Yell that to 10 Billion starving people.
"Please! we need to expand or my children will starve!"
"Your just being Hungry!"
@@zeamaiz945 Do you think if cows, wouldnt evolve first, wouldnt be doing the same, or insects, or even cells, dont do the same, viruses are part of natures, Locust are part of nature, do you think they woldt do the same also i love that enviromentalist are the first to scream also patriarchy and ist and ism demanding abolishing everithing f the past, when in the past, humans were much more tame, tahnks to you guess religion and faith the enviromentalist demand to destroy the past to become better with nature, not realizing you also destroy the best of us, they want to starve to death you think an animal will starve to death because good no
As a human, I'm mildy offended when we are accused of being evil and destructive, knowing that many other animals, if they had the tech, would destroy the world.
Just look at the Gombe Chimpanzee War. Humans aren't the only ones who are brutally violent when fighting each other.
Indeed. Prey animals would graze the Earth bare if there weren't predators to keep them in check.
Meercats. They would kill everything and eat their corpses, then each other, then their legs, then their arms, then go extinct from blood loss.
Animals even dont need technology. Lets look at Orcas for example, which know what it is killing and torturing someone just for fun. Another example. Dolphins. Cruel, everything raping motherfu*kers. Or normal house cats, which could wipe out entire bird species just because they can be bored. No. Animals can be sometimes even worse than humans. But they are cute and fluffy, so they can get away with it.
You cannot possibly know that
Your emphasis on the idea that we must be 'better than nature' reminded me of this from G.K. Chesterton's Orthodoxy: "If you want to treat a tiger reasonably, you must go back to the garden of Eden. For the obstinate reminder continued to recur: only the supernatural has taken a sane view of Nature. The essence of all pantheism, evolutionism, and modern cosmic religion is really in this proposition: that Nature is our mother. Unfortunately, if you regard Nature as a mother, you discover that she is a step-mother. The main point of Christianity was this: that Nature is not our mother: Nature is our sister. We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate. This gives to the typically Christian pleasure in this earth a strange touch of lightness that is almost frivolity. Nature was a solemn mother to the worshippers of Isis and Cybele. Nature was a solemn mother to Wordsworth or to Emerson. But Nature is not solemn to Francis of Assisi or to George Herbert. To St. Francis, Nature is a sister, and even a younger sister: a little, dancing sister, to be laughed at as well as loved." Chesterton was a very intelligent but also very witty and funny defender of Christianity, particularly Catholicism, and I generally would recommend his writing to people of all religious convictions (or lack-thereof). Pilgrim, you in particular would love him if you do not already.
Do you have any books or links that you could recommend
Love Chesterton
@@menib7574 I would recommend the main things I have read thus far: Orthodoxy, Man Who Was Thursday, the Everlasting Man, and also for something short 'The Dragon's Grandmother' from Tremendous Trifles.
@@menib7574 He was quite prolific: if you like detective stories there are many many texts (most famous the Father Brown series), adventure with twists and turns (the man who was Thursday- I would generally recommend that book-, the mentioned Orthodoxy- is a bit lengthier), essays (the Victorian age in literature or The common Man), hagiography (St Francis and St Thomas Aquinas)
It seems to me that the modern idealization of nature is a direct result of the collapse of religion; namely Christianity. Traditional cultures that advanced anywhere beyond simple hunter gatherering concluded that nature was dark, dirty, dangerous, and brutally unfair. Essentially civilization is man's flawed attempt to make things a little bit more fair and equitable then what nature dishes out. It's only in the comfort of high civilization that man can forget how brutal and unjust nature can be, and discard his faith in a benevolent power above nature in favor of a false quasi-religion centered around the natural order as the highest possible morality. From this every destructive modern materialistic philosophy springs. Communism reduces man's entire existence to competition for resources between the current haves and have nots. Facism overtly embraces the kill or be killed, only the strong survive aspect of the natural order as the only and highest form of morality. Capitalism and liberal democracy view material comfort and safety at the top of the natural and economic foodchain as being man's highest purpose, regardless of the harm this does to his fellow man or the environment. It was only in traditional cultures (in particular Christian culture as far as the west is concerned) where people were encouraged to believe that something wasn't quite right with the natural order of things and that man should attempt to surpass it ( through union with God).
Miyazaki's pro-environmental stories are some his best, in my opinion. Princess Mononoke is a masterpiece, but I think a slept-on film with a similar message is Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. It's a little more pro-nature than the more balanced take in Mononoke, but it's my favorite of Miyazaki's films.
the manga is also worth reading.
he only made it because they were refusing to let him make a movie without a pre-existing story to base it on, so the manga was made at the same time, and continues and differs from the movie.
@@scout360pyroz I DID NOT KNOW NAUSICAA HAD A MANGA
@@michaelokoro5651 yeah japan HATES investing money into movies that dont have pre existing bases to use that proved popular.
Even Akira had to have a manga made at the same time as the movie, and that was a golden crossing of funding, interest, and talent.
The last time Japan seriously tried to go with an independent (no light novel, no manga) movie from scratch was Redline... and that flopped overseas sadly.
@@scout360pyroz wow
@scout360pyroz tragedy.
Redline is amazing
A thing that always bothered me about Avatar was that they never (to my recollection) showed different tribes of the Navi fighting.
You tell me that on an entire planet these intelligent creatures never disagreed? No tribe ever tried to push for their own access to the Mother Tree?
Yeah, I understand how they could be painted as saints. But, even if that were to be showcased, would that change anything? Why would anyone say, "look they invade too, so I can too." It is not like the humans were invading to fight hypocrites.
if they are the only tribe it means they got rid of the others, simple.
It's utterly broken from a world-building perspective. A tribe- or, heck, even a family- (look at the Sengoku period of Japan) could gain influence, technology, wealth, or ideologies to instigate a civil war of sorts. Even a wanna-be writer can see the flaws in this!
Bare in mind that the whole race appears to be enslaved by a hive-mind that controls every organism on the planet.
The only possible reason I can think of in-universe as to why they wouldn't fight each other would be their connection to the planet and there goddess.
As a spaniard I can't believe someone out there names the jesuits and the work done by them to try and protect the natives instead of joining the hating the spanish bandwagon
People should know more about who Bartolome de las Casas was, even considered one of the first humanist.
@@Amantducafe People should learn about Bartolome de Las Casas, but they should learn about what he actually advocated for, not merely what he is known for. He did advocate for protection of the native peoples of Central America and that they shouldn't have to work on the haciendas. He also proposed that those natives should be replaced on the haciendas by African slaves.
@@Real_History he later changed his mind and was against slavery of everyone including african slaves.
@@Real_History Not to be controversial or anything, but the black slaves were legally bought from African kingdoms which used to rely heavily on slave trading. They were sold by their own people.
In that context, it would've still be more morally acceptable to use already bought slaves than to enslave the native population.
Which would still be bad, don't get me wrong. Slavery bad, freedom good. But slaving a native american empire's population goes very much against what would be morally acceptable in that context, at least in my opinion.
To be fair it's too easy to join the "we hate the Spanish" bandwagon since the educational system always paints the scene as "The peaceful natives minding their own business until the evil Europeans showed up."
The Aztecs took slaves and butchered their enemies, the Spaniards took slaves and butchered their enemies.
As always in war, neither side is "good".
Just psychopaths weaponized into attack dogs, greedy bureaucrats seeking to further their career and innocent civilians getting caught in the crossfire
This is by far the best video explaining why Hollywood's obsession with "capitalism evil/humans evil, nature benevolent/natives wholesome" is just flat out dumb. Thank you
Blessed
and it's simultaneaously brilliant becase such paradoxes sell well. Criticism of capitalism is a commodity
Capitalism does suck wagie
@@smtandearthboundsuck8400 i would gladly hear what's better
@@xiiir838 Anything
If they say nature isn't evil nor cruel.... Boy do they ever go outside??
Nature is cruel, but I wouldn't go as far to say that it's "evil" it's just a force that brings both positives and negatives, just like civilisation. Civilisation is heavily flawed in many ways, but so is nature. Civilisation highlights and amplifies the greed in humanity while offering comfort and security. Nature however discards most comfort and safety, but offers beauty and fulfilment.
It’s not evil, it just is. It may be cruel but it also can be beautiful. It’s not black and white
@@raptorjesus9054 In a way, human civilization and its problems are the product of nature. We live in a planet where every living thing evolved to survive, including ourselves. If we developed violent instincts but also altruism, language and eventually a culture, was to survive in nature. For the 300,000 years, more or less, that anatomically modern humans exist, 5,000 years of civilization and 200 years of modern civilization are nothing. We are still animals, in a way. We believe we are very rational with our telegraphs and asbestos walls, but we are still looking for short-term pleasures and solutions for all our needs.
It also applies to humans. "Humans are most evil" is attempt to be edgy. Cuz edgy = cool for them. But edgy isn't cool. Edgy is cringe and annoying
@@raptorjesus9054but morality is what we don't do those things
"Technology is evil and humans are assholes. Learn to commune with nature like those noble savages."
"Anyways, how did you like the 3D computer graphics of the movie? We developed new cutting-edge MoCap technology for those characters! Look at those realistic underwater shots. Pure VFX magic..."
That.
😆👍
😭😭😭
They never said technology was evil, like never
@@infiniteapex8762it's pretty heavily implied. You see the hulking grey masses of the technology attacking the Na'vi trees. You only see technology in the sad blue-grey colorgrading of the "real world."
The technology is made ugly to contrast the beauty of Pandora. It's never explicitly stated though
Let's set something straight. Princess Monoke isn't an example of Japan doing something better. It's an example of Studio Ghibli doing something better. Miyazaki is a god damn genius who surrounds himself with incredibly talented people. Liking Ghibli's films is just liking good movies. Outright.
Fax.
Studio Ghibli and Miyazaki are Japanese lol, so yeah it is an example of Japan doing better, it's nothing to be ashamed of, Japan can be better at things lol just like they also can be the opposite of that in other things
@@jonasw3945 And Stephen Hawking was born in England. I consider neither to be examples of the status quo in their respective countries and trying to claim that they are is stupid. As I said, Miyazaki is a genius who surrounds himself with talented people who bring his vision forward. That term is not one I apply lightly. When Miyazaki passes from this world, there will be no replacing him. Not internationally. And not from Japan either.
@@hellraiser217 you didn't explain at all your point, Miyazaki is Japanese, the movie was entirely made in Japan with japanese talent, sure Miyazaki is a genius but doesn't take away from the fact that it's all japanese and is a an example of Japan doing better, don't know what stephen hawkin has to do with anything lol. Just because it happens you know the director's name doesn't make this somehow a different thing, it is still japanese lol
Japan is a country made of its people, if a japanese production made by japanese people does better than other countries production then yeah it is an example of Japan being better.
Hollywood movies are also examples of America's talent and powerful movie industry and whenever a great hollywood movie is made then it is associated with America the same way.
The fact that nobody can replace Miyazaki or any other genuis is irrelevant, because he doesn't need replacing, other geniuses existed and will continue to exist in both japan and elsewhere who will made amazing movies in their own way.
You whole idea just feels comming from a shame of admiting a country is doing better than another. Again nothing to be ashamed of, Japan also does worst in other stuff and its fine
@@jonasw3945 "You didn't explain at all your point"
I did, you're just not that bright.
What bothers me the most is that characters like Grace, who legit care about the Na'vi, who spent her life and career learning their language, breaking down that barrier, setting up a school and clearly teaching a good many of them the English language to switch between, get overlooked by the so called Tree Seeds. Of all the people their God, or the planet itself could've chosen, it's Jake who is the "Chosen One". I completely understand Norm's jealousy, why does a guy who never cared about the Na'vi, let alone humanity, get to be Na'vi Jesus? What also bothers me is that there were many deleted scenes for Avatar that actually portrayed Parker in a more sympathetic light that I WISH weren't cut. As is, he's a flat, 2-D character, but with the deleted scenes, you can see that he actually does care about the Na'vi, or at least the Na'vi Program, that he doesn't want to have alien blood on his hands, he's just trying to do his job to provide his people with valuable resources, and he even gets strong armed by the mercs to lay the hammer down. I wish we could've had that movie instead of this, with stereotypical white, corporate, villains with military redneck, red meat loving, veggy hating gun loving minions. I'm amazed Jimmy Cameron restrained himself to not have any of them put on a white, pointy hood or something.
Dude you get your wish in this new movie with Grace. Why does Parker need to be more nuanced? What purpose does that serve to the story? We already sees he has doubts and hesitations but is ultimately venal and cowardly.
@@chrisbarnett5303 It's not cowardly to choose a side, much less your own species' side. That's not what cowardice means.
@@icebox1954 It's cowardly to choose committing acts of terrorism because you didn't want some board of investors to criticize you or fire you.
@@chrisbarnett5303 I don't think there's any indication he was afraid of being fired or criticized. He's a military contractor/ army guy. Killing for vested interests is what his job description is. That has nothing to do with cowardice. He prefers a peaceful resolution but he made it clear from the beginning that he relied on brute force more than diplomacy.
He wasn't cowardly at all, just self-righteous and uncaring.
The script does a bit better job explaining as to why Eywa chose Jake. Long story short, grace and the other scientists see everything only through a scientists lense.
Jake is a soldier, and he accepts what he sees and learns from the Na'vi over time including the spiritual side. Grace refused to accept there were things she couldn't grasp or analyze, while Jake is willing to admit there are bigger things at work. He admits he doesn't understand the science of Pandora, so he doesn't fight it. And because of his time with the Na'vi he's willing to accept there's a living God at the center of Pandora. The Spirits chose him because he was the only one who'd actually listen.
I'll admit, Avatar has its weaknesses, but I think that when you are forced to cut down to a two hour or two and a half hour film, you're forced to use only the bare minimum of whats necessary. It's not a book. It's a movie. And that means James Cameron was forced to make A LOT of sacrifices so the film could work. Definitely should read up on his original treatment Project 8 80.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who loves Pocahontas. When I grew up and realized how many people disliked it and the actually incredibly tragic history of the real Pocahontas it made me deeply sad. But the message of Pocahontas always was what resonated with me. The nuance of different groups, how we can easily demonize others, and how common goals can unite us if we choose to try and humbly work together.
Also the longer this video went on, the more impressed I was by how well read and studied you are. Bravo sir
@@orangeslash1667 why pocahontas is a banger and have one of the best disney song (i'm french so i don't really know how the song is in english but in french it's one of the best song)
Pocahontas would be a movie with greater depth had it been executed well. It's a rather boring film, honestly, and I say this as someone who enjoys slow movies. The message is great but when you tie it to a movie that isn't very appealing to watch, it gets hard to resonate with what they try to convey.
@@sujal4078 Fun Fact: Disney had HUGE expectations for Pocahontas, that they were expecting it to win Best Picture. However that didn't happen.
People hated cuz it was based on real life person and reduce to a romcom.
Is like making a love story between a Nazi and a jew, it's gross
"To see with eyes unclouded by hate and try to slow the cycle of violence" You need a megaphone and the whole of reddit held hostage in a room or hell the whole of humanity held in a room to listen to this sermon.
I think you mean Twitter.
Redditors and Twitter users should be ignored to every single possible extent.
Even by internet standards they are absolutely cretïns
All of social media
@@srmeatyboi9009 social media has become a catastrophe for mankind. Instead of making the world better it's made it worse.
Violence breeds violence, but in þe end it has to be þis way.
What you said about civilization being more merciful than nature is completely true. I've done a bunch of back country camping and generally spent a lot of time in the wild, and the ruthlessness of nature never fails to impress.
Very true. I think it is a fact many people have forgotten today. It is a reason I became a hunter just because I recognized just how little about these things I know, and I still want to have these skills if I am ever required to have them. Nature itself will not care if I have time to learn it or not.
Now that was a great line, "Spain felt they were justified because they saw themselves as victims, pushed to do a 'justified' evil"
And those that don't understand that are those who only look at the most recent victim of the cycle instead of at the cycle that brought everything to today.
“San is just like Jake Sully, a human that rejected their humanity and sided wholeheartedly with nature. -Except she’s in the wrong.” - That completely blew my mind, and I will forever remember this whenever comparisons btwn Avatar & Princess Mononoke are brought up in the future.
I would say San is "more in the right" then Jake is. San was abandoned by her parents to Moro (the wolf goddess) when she was a baby. She was raised as a wolf, not as a human. Jake on the other hand spent most of his life as a human and abandoned humanity after a few months and after finding himself a hot alien. San is in the wrong about lots of things, but Jake isn't right about anything.
@@valentinkambushev4968 Also San spent her whole upbringing seeing the evils of humanity (admittedly thru a biased lens); whereas Jake was raised with a human-centric point of view (tho he also saw the follies of humankind by growing up on a dying & wartorn world).
Great counterpoint, and that makes a lot more sense. Thanks!
@@valentinkambushev4968 It isn't about who's more morally in the wrong, it's about whether the movie acknowledges that they're in the wrong. Jake betrayed humanity when humanity was depending on him, but the movie saw this as a _good_ thing, because the movie hates humanity.
@@valentinkambushev4968 Honestly, following the biological imperative to mate rather than some sociological construct like 'loyalty to one's people and their money problems' isn't the shocking betrayal as one might think. And given the (ridiculous, but still presented) circumstances, with the Navi being superior to humans in just about every aspect, Jake wasn't even wrong. That's what this comparison is showing. Avatar boils things down to black and white. It's very easy to see which side are the 'good guys'. In Mononoke, you've got Lady Eboshi who has literally provided women with a better life, the monk who is secretly working his own side, San who is supporting the wolves and forces of nature (who are literally turning into demons from the hatred and violence they hold towards their foes), and Ashitaka, seeking to mediate between them all before he dies. Mononoke provides complex characters and a complex story to go along with it. Avatar has less nuance than a Bug Bunny cartoon.
@@Nukestarmaster And rightly so, seeing that humanity is ready to wipe out a species to clean the mess that they made with their own hands. Why should one be loyal to his species, when being born human isn't something that we can choose?
I was surprised at the connections you made with the Ottomans and the Aztecs I know a lot about history, but people talk more about the Mongols than the Ottomans and they don’t talk about the Mongols much.
My textbooks never even _mentioned_ the Ottomans except as the poor poor victims of Vlad the Impaler. I only learned about them and the threat they represented to europe because of EU4, a video game!
yall never read your history books or paid attention in class.
@@MrOgyny I was taught Columbus wanted to go to India to save money, not to save money because the Ottomans were blocking all trade routes and enslaving everyone. Big difference.
@@Rollpepper its not incorrect to say he wanted to sail to India to save money. The republic of Venice was on good terms with the ottomans and monopolized the land trade from the east into Europe. So he was trying to save/make money for Spain. Lower level history classes are concerned with what happened more so than why. Too much to cover with too many people there because they have to be. All text books have recommended reading list, usually at the end of chapters, for those inclined to learn more. Most are not, obviously.
It,s because the winged hussars arrived, coming down the mountaneside.
one things i noticed about Avatard 2 is this , when Spider got captured Jake and the family didnt even consider or bother to rescue him not only that he imediatly thought spider would break and betray them and give their location up (which he never did , Spider was OG chad loyal to the end) , it showed truly that Jake not only hated earth humans but didnt even trust the ones that stayed by his side, if he trusted Spider for even a lil bit , the whole running away shtick would have never been needed, actually it was Jakes fault that his family got found and the sea navi got in danger in the first place
Yeah. And on top of that Spider was just a child
I fr thought Spider would be totally fine when he was captured by the humans bc he was with his peeps bc no way they would kill a human child, the worst that could happen is raising him to be a weapon but at least he still be alive! But nooo they took unnecessary risked resulting to Neteyams death. The whole ordeal was unnecessary stupid in tge mids of war but hey hey they need character development apparently
"To see with eyes unclouded by hate." So many good things in this video.
His eyes widen!
7:35 Na'vi are shown to be no strangers to war - as proven by the "kill on sight" policy established by the Chieftain, their preference for poison-tipped arrows, the fact they are depicted to have a pretty good concept of some aspects of warfare with some clans even specializing in certain roles, the fact they have a mythical hero figure who reveals themselves in times of great hardship, choosing one of the Moon's Apex Predators as their mount, and alsso one deleted scene which depicted a piece of dialogue between the protagonist and his Na'vi rival where the latter admonished the humans for "fighting over long distances like cowards"
So even though their in-movie depiction was pretty benevolent you can easily see some cracks within the facade and their "goodness" is only compared to the humans on the moon.
What a hypocrite, I bet he uses the poisoned arrows himself
@@512TheWolf512
Poisoned projectiles are a warcrime
So is mass expulsion of civilians
How are the civilian workers at fault for the crimes of a rouge band of mercenaries (the military guys did not act with the consent of Earth command btw)
And your point is?
@@19Rena96 read the last part
@@sosig6445 Both the Civilian as well as the Military and even the Research aspect of the Colonization effort was run by the RDA Corporation. So you could technically make the case of every RDA worker having become military once Quaritch seized Command over Hellsgate Base and declared a General Mobilization.
"Hatred of humanity feeds the human ego... it doesn't solve anything."
I did enjoy Avatar, but man, I have to say, you are one hundred percent correct about the lack of nuance. All the humans are evil, no reason why, they just are, and all the Na'vi are perfect. I actually think I may watch Princess Mononoke sometime, never have since I am not a massive anime fan, but it genuinely seems like an interesting film.
All the humans were not evil, there was a whole group of scientists that aided Jake and the Navi in the movie, lol
You must watch it!!It's just ammmazing!!!
I can personally recommend pretty much every movie by Hayao Miyazaki. He's the director of Princess Mononoke, but if I had to recommend just one of his movies. I'd have to go with either Castle in the Sky or Spirited away.
i personally recommended. it's top 10 movie recommendation of all time for me.
@@Vincinate still lack of nuance that makes human human. They basically went "our comrades are evil so we shoot them down mercilessly". Eventhough they just had a poker game last week.
this video hit hard on the self hatred part. my family is an Italian west african mix. and it's so weird when I'm around fully european people who want to apologize and demonize themselves, or around american blacks who feel like victims and demand entitlements. it's so weird. I'll talk to other in the middle like me and we feel like ashitaka. history and history, and the only way to make it better is move on and slow down violence. attempt to start d in unity before an outer enemy destroys us during our internal struggles.
I always say, us biracial people are going to be the bridge
@@BlueKokiri3 You shouldn't have to be. You didn't start the conflict and it's BS that entitled jerks and masochistic whiners drag you into it.
It's incredibly reductive to focus on only the colonialism part of black in America. It was not so long ago that the US made interracial marriage legal and not so long that the LA protests happened because of the unjustified torture of Rodney King. To suggest that they feel like victims because they feel like it is naive. If unity is to be accomplished then the equal treatment of people has to be taken into consideration.
Northern Mexican. Feel exactly like you do. I’ve never been around Africans but I think I would get along with them better than African Americans or wasps exactly becouse of what you just said
@@antonioramirez8086 and there it is....part of what I was talking about. For every case where a black was treated unfairly I can name a white. For equal treatment to work we must be honest about that state of our communities. It was a broad stroke example of people blaming entire races on the actions of some. Blacks dont have it in our generation the way the media portrays it. Moat of it is self inflicted through welfare and culture. I was lucky my dad got us put of the ghetto and gave us a fairly normal life. Because of that I see how bad it is when using being black is crutch or I'm white as superior. It's just causing the blamd game to cycle and violence against one another. That and it's a hard longform conversation. Difficult to have through the text of a yourube comments section
This is an excellent video. You've made me realize why I love and admire Princess Mononoke and don't love and respect Avatar.
I believe James Cameron knows that the only way Avatar: The Way of Water can be a better film than Avatar is if the former has a better message than the latter. I even remember an interview from around 2010 where Cameron says that he showed Avatar to some South-American indigenous tribe(s) and that their response was that the hero of the film solved his problems by contributing to the conflict and war between the humans and the Na'vi and that they don't see that as the best way of solving problems. Cameron subsequently said that Avatar 2 would have to have a better message than Avatar if he were to make it. I look forward to Avatar: The Way of Water for that reason.
I noticed that too. And having Jake Sully adopt a human son might be an attempt to bridge the gap. I personally think that Avatar 2 might redeem avatar if they give greater context to human exploitation of Pandora and give the humans a "Lord Assano" equivalent.
@@PilgrimsPass I agree.
I'm cautiously looking forward to it. James Cameron is a philosophical dumbass but he's a philosophical dumbass who actually listens to criticism and tries to improve himself. There's a naïve transparency to the guy that makes him a lot less insufferable than certain other directors.
@@PilgrimsPass They also need to redeem Colonel Quaritch because he was actually a pretty reasonable dude.
@@Katya_Lastochka I rewatched avatar recently and yeah it was weird how reasonable he was until the last third where he just became very cliched of a villain
I had never heard about the fact that the Europeans were being invaded before and during western colonization. That context is important and I'm sad I didn't learn about it sooner! Amazing work on this essay.
Europeans invaded other countries.
Israel is doing exactly that in Ukraine, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria
@@TheLatiosnlatias02 Israel is invading Ukraine?
And since you want to portray one side as evil (exactly what this video is talking about), you do remember that on October 7th Hamas broke a ceasefire and butchered over 1200 Israeli civilians in manners that would have given Genghis Khan pause, right? Or is that just OK with you?
@joeymorin is correct. Europe invaded and colonized, but was also invaded and colonized. Try to see with eyes unclouded by hated... if you can.
@@Evil0tto
How much dumber can you get? Too much MSM, BBC, Kan 11, Sky, CNN, Radio Free Europe, etc... is not good for EU.
Israel has its dirty hands in Ukraine and is behind Ukrainian War. Russia did a great job at kicking them out.
Russia has destroyed the Ukrainian army many times and NATO and Israel keep reconstituting it.
Now, NATO is demilitarised and depleted and Ukraine fatigue is setting in the West.
Israel is getting a karma from Hamas and had it coming.
Ukraine has been devastated and on the verge of collapse. So there will be no war of attrition - as Western aid is dwindling and the world moving on. Time to surrender or die for Ukraine has arrived.
Zionist evil was created by the Rothschild criminals who control the puppet corrupt monarchy. Balfour declaration was a British imperialist project to permanently control oil rich Arab puppet regimes by planting the Zionist cancer in Arab Palestine circa 1948.
Snap out of your crap by reading Henry Ford's book titled THE INTERNATIONAL JEW - THE WORLD'S FOREMOST PROBLEM.
Then learn the difference between lies and truth by researching the USS LIBERTY massacre of June 1967... same with 9/11.
Research the founding of Hollywood, and the founders, and the subsequent monopoly on media since. Become familiar with Bernard Baruch and his manipulations of both Woodrow Wilson and FDR.
Research the truth regarding Pearl Harbor including The McCollum Memo and FDR's RAINBOW 5 PLAN. Learn about Walt Whitman Rostow and his manipulation of LBJ with the assistance of others such as Arthur Krim and Abe Feinberg who brought America the Viet Nam debacle.
Research the so-called BALFOUR DECLARATION which was an arrangement between the Rothschilds and powerful Arthur Balfour whereby America was tricked into WWI and Palestine was presented to the Jews as a homeland...etc.
You shit heads have no morals.
@@Evil0tto
How much dumber can you get? Too much MSM, Yahoo, ABC, BBC, CBC, CNN, Sky, Radio Free Europe, France 24, etc... is not good for you. Israel is behind this Ukrainian War and you're in denial. Russia did a great job at kicking them and NATO out of Ukraine. You shit heads always support that mass murdering nation like Israel when it was behind Ukrainian war and massacre of Palestinians.
ZionNazis was created by the Rothschild criminals who control the puppet corrupt monarchy. Balfour declaration was a British imperialist project to permanently control oil rich Arab puppet regimes by planting the Zionist cancer in Arab Palestine circa 1948.
Snap out of your crap by reading Henry Ford's book titled THE INTERNATIONAL JEW - THE WORLD'S FOREMOST PROBLEM. Then learn the difference between lies and truth by researching the USS LIBERTY massacre of June 1967... same with 9/11.
Research the founding of Hollywood, and the founders, and the subsequent monopoly on media since. Become familiar with Bernard Baruch and his manipulations of both Woodrow Wilson and FDR.
Research the truth regarding Pearl Harbor including The McCollum Memo and FDR's RAINBOW 5 PLAN. Learn about Walt Whitman Rostow and his manipulation of LBJ with the assistance of others such as Arthur Krim and Abe Feinberg who brought America the Viet Nam debacle.
Research the so-called BALFOUR DECLARATION which was an arrangement between the Rothschilds and powerful Arthur Balfour whereby America was tricked into WWI and Palestine was presented to the Jews as a homeland...etc.
@@Evil0ttoi think its absurd.
like this is just blatant israel demonization not calling out.
and people forgot hamas too
I mean in the very beginning of Disney Pocahontas movie you have Pocahontas’s father and the other men returning back from war with a rival tribe so even Disney portrayed the Native American people more three dimensionally and not as tree hugging hippie peace lovers.
same
...Though they did turn Radcliff from soneone whondid try negotiation, even if underhanded at times to an outright villain. Another tribe in the area invited him to a parlay and skinned him alove under false flag of truce
And the "Savages savages" musical bit shown both sides to be hatefull and equally intolerant, it wasn't just the english blatantly proclaiming the other to be barbaric and evil but the Natives aswell.
@@sosig6445 yes exactly
@@sosig6445 though the message is a little on the nose. "They are not like you and me, which means they must be evil!" Can it be any more obvious?
The smallpox blanket thing is interesting, because i remember it taught as fact at school but it seems like it was just a myth now. I saw one study on it which basically said it would backfire if you tried to do it, because they really didn't understand how disease travelled and probably would just get sick handling freshly infected blankets, which would be much less dangerous by the time they had reached the natives.
So it was a hypothetical bomb that blows up in your face if you are fool enough to build one.
It was much more likely that the smallpox infection just had already gotten some resistance in the europeans but the natives had to get it the hard way, and the horrors of the massive native war with the aztecs just made everything so much worse.
If the aztecs hadn't been so horrible, it's entirely possible the spanish would have been beaten back.
Indeed. Back then people didn't really know where diseases came from, so it’s unlikely they intentionally gave smallpox to the natives. If they DID give blankets to the Indians, they did so altruistically, and gave them smallpox on accident. Don't jump to apply malice where incompetence/ignorance can also apply.
The claim of smallpox blankets came from a single female academic who hated America and Europeans, in the 1970s.
She was perusing the journals of the leader of a military detachment who had been sent to open diplomatic talks with a tribe. The journal mentions that on the way there, they stopped at a field hospital where people with smallpox were being treated. They picked up some blankets as gifts and to trade once they met with the tribe, but this was well before the germ theory of disease.
They got there, began diplomatic relations with the tribe, gave them the blankets. But there were no recorded outbreaks of smallpox in that area after their visit.
In fact, smallpox had already raged through that area multiple times, and had spread far to the north and west past the area of that tribe decades prior.
Right. It's unlikely they've have even thought to try it, because Germ Theory didn't even exist yet.
@@immikeurnot the best they could try given the medical knowledge is to blow something unimaginably stinking (or literally cover blankets in faeces which kinda defeats their purpose) given miasma theory.
@@immikeurnot Germ Theory didn't exist but there was an understanding of contagion... But it's also worth noting that the reason we have a record of "plague blankets" is people who did attempt this were brought up on charges. So the only people we know for sure died as a result of plague blanket schemes were a handful of officers who got hanged for war crimes.
I think when people say "nature is a paradise", without meaning to what I think they really (subconsciously) mean is "the dream of living in a way that is natural to ourselves would be paradise". By saying "nature is a paradise" they are basically telling themselves a story, and on a subconscious level stories work the same as dreams and use the same symbolic language (its all about emotional and psychological subconscious venting).
I completely agree. "perfect nature" becomes escapist dream from technology that was used in destructive ways by humans.
In another words - stupid people making up stupid fairy tales.
This was a great video. You are one of the few content creators, who discuss our relation to nature and who also understand, that humans aren't a separate entity from nature. People always go with an idea that place can be either natural (imagine forest, swamp and other places without humans) or it can be unnaturally changed by humans (imagine cities, villages etc.). Yet they always fail to recognize, that humans building cities is just as natural as a beavers building their dams or ants building anthills. They wouldn't consider an anthill unnatural so why is a city different?
Also thank you for pointing out that one of the reasons Europeans sailed west (to find new trade route to India) was because of the Ottoman Empire. It never occurred to me that there could be a connection.
One thing i forgot to add. I don't think the deer god in the end survived. Like the "priest" said, once sunlight touches the god in its headless form it will vanish. They returned its head, but the sunlight touched it in the process of turning from the disturbed form to its standard night form. Since it wasn't completely turned it still died, but because it was already mostly normal, its body changed its effect from bringing death to bringing life. That's why it still disappeared but it didn't kill everyone and instead rejuvenated the land. (Mononoke even comments on that fact, but Ashitaka comforts her by claiming that it will never truly disappear as long as the nature itself exists.) That is also one of the reasons why the ending is slightly somber. The nature didn't die, but the gods, who gave animals their strength+size and intellect, vanished and without them the animals will turn to mere beasts (like the pigs were worried). I believe the idea was, that this was the moment, that turned the original magical world into the normal world we live in. Connecting it with our reality and putting the story into our own world instead of a completely fictional one (like in D&D, Warcraft, etc.).
Nature is a self repairing mechanism that lives in cycles. Resources are not wasted what is a trash for one organism is food for another. And it works in cycles there is start of life, growth, decay and death and yet another start. In cities it is all linear production & dumping trash. Hardly anything is reused or recycled. It is not that humans do not have right to live. Just don't say we are good guys here coz we are certainly not. Civilizations that are not parasiting are more advanced because they are self-sustainable. Cancer also grows only until it has something to feed on
@@wolrin833 oh my that’s deep. Thank you
Isn't it funny how all these lunatics always somehow forget that if any of animal species had half of our brain, they would dominate the planet and do exactly the same as we do, maybe even worse? Imagine ants with their hive mind suddenly getting smarter. They would be unstoppable. Chips waging literal wars of extinction and conquest. We are literally the only ones who actually cares about the surrounding at all. No animal cares if the rest of the world burns or doesn't really have the capacity to understand it.
I have always being amazed by how much of avatar's audience easily swallow the whole "human's bad", while they themselves experience the human condition daily as soon as they left the cinema. Great video. It is good to see someone pointing out Cameron's hipocrisy.
Also, Halo actually has the whole conquest theme, since The Covenant is an empire conformed by multiple alien races that were forced to join under threat of destruction. Humans were under threat of destruction due to religious fanatism and political reasons.
At no point does avatar say "humans bad". It doesnt even imply it. Its saying capitalism and imperialism is bad. The RDA, a greedy corporation is bad. Hell, half the human characters are good guys. It drives me god damn nuts that everyone just assumes that avatar is anti humanity, based on nothing, when thats not what it is at all.
We arent bad. The things we are doing are bad. We could choose not to destroy things for the sake of profit, but we dont, because the people sitting on mountains of wealth dont want to, and they have all the power and influence.
The RDA corporation is bad, because of what theyre doing.
They didn't voyage out in the first place for pointless conquest. They needed the plot device juice to save humanity or whatever, I don't remember it all that well it was a forgettable movie. But I do remember They needed something from the blue people to continue humanity's existence.
@@ElectricAlien577 Why are yiu defending that mediocre movie? like seriously Avatar is not that deep
@juanmanikings It's not a mediocre movie. A lot of pseudo intellectuals like to dunk on it, mostly because they either disagree with its message, or they missed the point, and I've seen plenty of video essays made by people who weren't paying attention when they watched it, or go out of their way to interpret everything in bad faith, like this one.
It's a genuinely good movie that does something no other big blockbuster does. It spits on the status quo, and tells you the solution is rising up against corporations/the establishment in revolutionary violence. It criticizes the military industrial complex in a manner I've never seen in a blockbuster like this.
This movie tells a truth most of western society doesn't want to accept. We are killing our mother.
@@ElectricAlien577 If you want a story with the same themes but far better executions and not as preaching as this one read the manga of Nausicaa that's is how you do enviromental massage without being preachy
After seeing this in theatre back in 2009, I remember being infuriated at Jake Sully. He had been tasked to try to find a compromise- and even if he was given that task in bad faith by malicious characters, he made absolutely no attempt whatsoever to carry it out. An avenue for coexistence was there, but he was too busy chasing blue tail, completely oblivious to the intensifying crisis. All the bloodshed could have been avoided if he had actually made even a half-hearted attempt to do his job. That sound like a hero to you?
Thank you for this video which elaborates on the frustration that Avatar left me with.
No, you're wrong, like the Pilgrim Pass and his "essay". That's a common but liyful myth that Jake Sully betrayed humanity for the sake of hot alien ass and abandoned his diplomatic mission. It's a pure shit because Jake has never intended not only to betray anybody, but even to raise the fire of war. If you are going to proove your shitty-ass point of view with the scene when Jake says it's impossible to make Na'Vi leave the Home-Tree - you will inevitably appear with a huge poop on your pants. Why? Because you will always pay zero attention to other moments that prove the opposite.
For instance, how much I used to hear the backlash about the moment when Jake smashes the camera on the bulldozer, "so how mad he is!", but almost all of them missed the part of the scene where Jake after awaking in the Avatar body immediately... shouts to the bulldozer "Hey, Stop!", makes the stopping gestures and waving his arms to take attention of operator for the machine stoppage. In other words, he tried to stop bulldozer WITHOUT ANY VIOLENCE. But the operator of the bulldozer denied, he was actually FORCED to destroy the camera. But it's not only evidence.
Then, when Jake and Neytiri arrive at the Home-Tree and see the Omaticaya Clan and Tsu'tey going to strike back. Guess, what does Jake Sully? HE TRIES TO PERSUADE TSU'TEY AND OMATICAYA CLAN IN GENERAL NOT TO STRIKE BACK. That's the thing.
And finally, when the Home-Tree falls, and the peace between Humans and Na'Vi is no longer possible, Jake Sully has reflections about that: "I was a warrior who dreamed he could bring peace. Sooner or later though, you always have to wake up." There is no happiness in these words. Even in the episode where he says the humanity has nothing sustainable to offer, he is not happy about this, neither there, nor when Quaritch shows this.
To be frank, Pilgrim Ass made unfair comparison. When he talks about Mononoke, he makes very detailed analysis, taking into consideration each detail shown in the anime. However, when the turn comes to James Cameron's Avatar, it all comes down to the stereotypes around avatar and common misconceptions.
I will say in his defense, the bad faith and malicious characters gave him no chance to carry out that so called coexistence. You talk about avoiding bloodshed but everyone....everywhere must kill to survive. Coexistence would be either subjugation or the humans joining the food chain of the planet. If I were jake sully I would also see it as an impossible task and simply stay out of it. The only crisis here is that the humans want more than they need.
The point of the movie was human civilization is bad, but really it should have been humans are also just animal trying to survive, but were just better at it than the other animals. There is no good or evil in killing to survive. And you got to chase whatever color tail you can to survive.(as a species) So I think you missed the point of the video.
@@andrewgoehring9108
We don't know how future human civilization work and what innovation they have that improve the lives of billions.
Who knows they might have tech that allows machines to cure cancer for cheap and needs the space rocks for it. Its literally like how most of ingridients in our fertillizers came from fossil fuels which allows us to grow more food so that we won't starve but environmentalists seem to leave that out in their arguements
@@AureliusLaurentius1099 And your point? It does not matter how future civilization might work. We see in the movie how this human civilization works. No matter what innovations they had, they seemed incapable or unwilling to find another way to solve their problems without making problems for other sentient races.
It don't matter what tech they had or what that rock did. They still had the wrong mindset to save their people in a way that makes them better than animals. It could have been the mythical fountain of youth and the movie would have been the same.
Side note: Dead animals = plant food. fossil fuels work too, it was even brought up in the movie. So i'm not sure what you mean by it being similar.
Wait are you agreeing with me that humans are not acting like a higher creature or just saying that we should have a way to solve the problem without massacring them.
He couldn't give two sh!t about a human life at this point. He lost his family and lost his ability to walk.
Becoming an alien was a second chance at life for him, so he was ready to get rid of humanity as a whole if it were to get in his way.
He's a villain
5:36 And that is exactly why I love Princess Mononoke: neither side are "good guys" or "bad guys" per se, they are just two sides in a conflict, and what the protagonist does is solving the conflict in a way that isn't to the disadvantage of either.
In my life I try to be my own person, but if I ever actually looked up to anyone as an archetype of a positive masculine and humanitarian hero - it's gotta be Prince Ashitaka... this movie is definitely one of the best ones ever made and it's message touches my heart every time ♡
I and others will always get hate for this, because He said those who follow Him will be hated by the world. Anyways, why not Jesus of Nazareth the Christ, Yehushua HaMashiach? Why not look up to Him? You don't have to respond, I just really needed to say that.
@@andresmcguire-buckley1659 because Jesus was just a regular dude
@@Noisetank007 no he wasn't.
@andresmcguire-buckley1659 why is Christianity the one true religion when there are so many religions that say they are? You don't have to answer I'm just curious.
@@ma.3934I would have made a super long and detailed comment on why Christianity is the one true religion but, Red Pen Logic did a video response to this question and he answers it better than I would have.
“Man betrayed humankind and left his own species go extinct, just to clap alien ass.”
Pretty much sums up the main movie plot in one sentence.
I watched Princess Mononoke for the first time, simultaneously leaving me so happy and sad. I completely understand the ending and how Ashitaka needed to be a neutral party in a world where people can only see black and white, but I just wanted Ashitaka to be happy with Mononoke after all the pain he endured in pursuit of peace between humans and nature. (In the end, he probably was because he said he'd visit.) But he can't see his family anymore and essentially takes governorship over Irontown (in m mind, since I don't think there's a continuation as far as I know), so it just left me cold and a little empty, but like a cool stream of water over my shoulders rather than a piercing chill. Still love it, but it hit me pretty hard and is one of the best pieces of art I've ever witnessed.
the black and white vision is sadly something that is very american and in the hollywood cultur european country is more nuanced on history
Even comparing Princess Mononoke to Nausicca of the Valley of the Wind, another earlier Miyazaki movie, Nausicca is more heavy handed in its environmental message, but it's still more balanced and nuanced than Avatar.
Nausicaa is a bit of a different angle on it. In the two in the video, the environment is fighting back against human aggression whereas in Nausicaa the jungle is reclaiming land from the humans, looking at the ruins of Pedjite and others that Lord Eupa travels through
@@hammer1349 Sort of. The history is expanded on a lot more in the manga, but the poisonous Sea of Corruption in a fungus that draws out all the pollutants in the soil and air, ultimately purifying the Earth. When there is no more toxins in the environment, the fungus will die off. In the movie, its more hinted that Nature itself created the fungus, but, in the manga, it is revealed that it was created by scientists right before the fall of human civilization.
@@hammer1349 I'd say it's more of a dealing with the fallout situation, with the remnants of the Empire which caused it going "You know what could solve it? More of it!" (+ jingoism of reconquest)
Not as stupid as it sound considering burning the biomes toxic to humans do work somewhat, but they did not (or refused to) see that this life wasn't against humanity and simply filled open biological niches that would eventually lead to a proper ecosystem again.
It is reclaiming in the sense of "I am a spore, i landed here, it's a hellhole for everyone but me, i'm growing" times a billion, purifying the otherwise desolate regions through converting the toxic compounds in the soil into toxic spores is a side effect.
TLDR should have invested more into biologists and less into false-flagging giant pill bugs.
Also Nausicca is a condensed adaptation of a much longer series so in order to get the point across without coming across as disjointed they had to dumb things down.
This was an excellent analysis. As a biology/paleontology student, I know how cruel and indifferent nature can be, and I know FOR SURE that human beings are far from being the absolute only species on the planet capable of malice (I recommend Casual Geographic's channel, if you have the stomach), so I agree with the whole delusional and downright ignorant "nature is perfect and animals are wiser than us" being garbage. I did not know however, how the Ottoman invasions of Europe pushed Europeans toward the Americas. Very interesting indeed, even if the way Europeans treated the natives was still monstrous and vile. Like the modern saying goes, "it explains why they did it, but it doesn't excuse it." Great video essay, thank you for sharing your perspective with us!
Honey badger top tier
@@fusokku9212 I prefer Wolverines
I don't think the Ottoman invasions of Europe are really all that relevant, since even without that threat there would still be incentive to settle the New World to cultivate it and extract resources. Also this was an era were conquest was not unusual. At the same time, I don't see how the way Europeans treated natives was particularly vile or monstrous. The native tribes would fight and conquer each other, so why would it be particularly cruel if a European "tribe" came an conquered them?
It's only until around the 1800s and the trail of tears where I see the treatment of indigenous Americans as unjust. Though I still wouldn't call it monstrous and vile given that many indigenous Americans sided against the U.S. in the war of 1812.
Whoever thinks that nature is beautiful and pacific needs to touch grass.
However, all species in nature need to be protected, because they have a right to live. Except mosquitos. We could do without Aedes Aegypticus, for instance, and without tapeworms, brain-eating amoebas, Ebola, ticks, bedbugs, leeches, SARS-CoV, SARS-CoV-2, the Marburg virus, Yersinia Pestis...
Avatar basically implements a quote said by Drew Gooden: “These guys are bad, and these guys are good, and that’s why they fight.” In Princess Mononoke, there’s a lot more gray area-you see bad traits in the heroes at times and sympathize with the villains at times. That’s how it is in real life. This makes the story feel more human and relevant.
Avatar is basically James flexing his VFX flim making ability. Literally everything is CG. Everything else is secondary. He wants to go beyond in CG.
It would be excusable if the same movies he makes with cutting-edge technology did not contain the rather conflicted message that technology is bad and we should basically return to monke.
@@renard6012 i get what where your coming from but look at avatar 2 it's another commerical hit grossing 1.8 billion while commenting. Avatar is for masses who are bordes from super hero shit. Now it's new meta unlocked since top gun mavrik. I believe people are going to catch up to his simpleton view of the world. Like he said testosterone is bad and men should get rid of. But he forgets that testosterone running in his body made him go autistic in this avatar franchise.
I almost never comment, but your video is very well written and from a viewpoint I have rarely seen. I especially like how you mentioned how the industrial side in Princess Mononoke supports people that would usually die in nature. I am an avid nature lover and I am disabled, and I take medicine for my disability. As much as I like nature, without the pills I take, I would die. If there was ever a scenario where humans had to suddenly live like the Na’vi, myself and many other disabled people wouldn't be able to make it (I also find many ‘return to nature’ folks end up spreading ableist narrative, though I won’t get into that rn).
In addition, I also believe that ‘huurrr humans bad’ is, as you said, ultimately destructive and very useful to those who wish to continue destroying the earth. It’s much easier to continue polluting under the pretense that all humans are evil because it makes us feel that we do not deserve a habitable world. However, if we could change the narrative and say ‘Humans deserve the safety and happiness society gives us, AND we have the ability to coexist with nature’, then I think more people would be inspired to help the planet instead of just…giving up because ‘evil is human’s nature lmao’.
Sorry for the rant…I’ve just been thinking about it for a while and you mentioned a lot of points I agree with. I’ll be sure to check out your other videos :]
(*Many people are sharing their opinions about companies and pollution in the replies of this comment. While I encourage and support everyone's opinion on this topic (I like having civil discussions), this comment was supposed to be about disabled people. I already know the harm companies cause, but this comment was about how disabled people are often not part of environmental conversations. I would prefer if that part was discussed in the replies instead of arguing.)
We in the west been living with this self destructive laziness and apathy, disdain for people like us at worse, surely things will change
What a beautiful comment
I really don't think that 'humans bad' narrative comes from a place of trying to manipulate people to give up. Corporations love spreading environmental optimism, peddling in trivialities to make people feel like they are doing something to make a change like the act of replacing plastic straws. I think the origin and purpose of doomer narratives become more apparent when you examine the fact that there is public outcry in response even to these corporate placebos, with people saying that alternatives to plastic straws are dangerous blah blah blah. Kinda rambling but I don't really don't believe that doomer man vs nature narratives are a corporate tool to brainwash the masses, when those corporations typically go down the exact opposite route. Obviously neither view is helpful, but I think both originate from the intrinsic opposition to change embedded in the human psyche.
@@jimjimson6208 I see where you're coming from, but I don't entirely agree with you! First, when I first made the comment I never said that the 'humans bad' narrative was in any way a manipulation tactic, either from regular people or corporations; I meant that it was more a shared mentality that was easily spread, and that pessimism about the ability to help the environment actively causes harm.
Secondly, many corporations do encourage environmental optimism (which is good), but a company like Shell, one of the biggest polluters in the world, telling me to use paper straws isn't going to undo the destruction they create, which is what I also meant in my original comment. Many of the top polluter companies pushing out that environmental optimism- (use paper straws, drive less, ect)- do that to push the blame onto the regular populace, saying that we are the main cause for the destruction of the environment, when those companies cause over 70% of the pollution (which is what I meant when I said 'useful to the people who continue to destroy the earth'- these companies shift the blame onto us for 'being awful and polluting' when they're the main contributors). It isn't 'manipulation', per say, but a distraction tactic.
But in my original comment I was more trying to talk about how easy it is for pessimistic mentalities to spread than the affect companies have, lol. The important thing I was trying to convey was that disabled people shouldn't be left behind in conversations about the environment, because as a society we have the ability to care for disabled people and be environmentally aware. Thanks for the thoughtful response, though! :) I get the part about humanity's adversion to change, and I can't help but agree with that part lmao.
Ofcourse mate, because, the people that are actually protecting the worlds LAST forests, you know, our indigenous peoples, are not being genocide by corporate lobbies and corrupt governments right? And if we just stop believing humans are bad, all that destruction of our ecosystem will magically stop too! Wake up man.. as an Indigenous Australian this naive attitude is literally killing me.
After receiving the all Europeans are colonizers and slavers (I’m Polish living in Ireland the irony) and all men are rapists or enable it shpeel from two Brazilian girls.
I saw the reversal of hate play right in front of me and on my skin. The ending of your video really resonated with me, it essentially what I say to people in college, or others through poems I write and my say.
It isn’t that one is good and the other evil nor that the one is evil and the other good. The line of good and evil crosses the hearts of all people.
By nature we’re greedy and violent, responsibility lays on ourselves to keep those primordial powerful drives constructive and not destructive.
I’ve never thought I’d hear a reasonable person out of Brazil, someone who is well read on history and not dogmatic and simplistic.
You got yourself a subscriber my friend and my bias of anecdotal experience has been shattered thanks to you man.
Peace man, you seem like the sort of dude id love to spend a night by the campfire talking!
We need stories about the eastern colonization.
THANKS! I love when I find someone who truly understands how realistic comflicts should be represented, I absolutely hate politics in media not because they are politics or because they criticize my beliefs, but because almost all representations are extremley one sided, I hate when my side is represented only as the wrong one, but I also hate when my side represents itself as the absolute good one, never taking a moment to remember "Hey, maybe, just maybe, there is a reason why the other side exists! Maybe they have a preferences over the possible good points their side offers, just maybe, we can find a way to balance things or at least get a better result, just maybe we could think and imagine ourselves as memebers of the other side!" but instead all I get are criticism of capitalism/communism only representing the bad side and thinking nature is good.
Remember kids, mother nature may be wise but that doesn't mean she is good and will look after you, she will make mistakes and use you in her own favor to keep things going and keep learning, there is a reason why civilization was born instead of staying in nature, if wanting to stay alive is the same as greed then I'm greedy for me and my family.
This is a bit offtopic, but I would love to see you talking about The Dragon Prince, a series that seems to be popular but I actively hated in many levels, the main one being how one sided the plot presented its story (I will talk about it as someone who just watched the first 2 seasons, I don't care about the rest unless something did change), like how the king had to choose between saving a dying kingdom, sacrificing half of his own kingdom to save theirs, or kill a golem creature to use its core grow more food during winter and save both kingdoms, the 3rd option is presented as black magic and his wife hates his decision of relying on black magic and killing the golem because that's moreally wrong, which is just... whaaaaat? Ma'am, are you saying is okey for the two kingdoms to die? How are you going to tell them the news? Wy is it okey to kill one animalto save one life for a week but is wrong to kill one animal to save literally a whole kingdom? And is not as if the plot ever took this approach in consideration because the king is presented as guilty for taking that decision as if he was thinking it was a bad one even tho black magic saved everyone but one life, and is not as if the plot ever mentioned some possible consequences of killing the golem like "Now that the golem is dead, a meteorite will fall and kill the entire continent", no, is just wrong to kill it because is the last of its kind, which is too bad but that's how nature works, taking the last of one kind as a last resource in order to survive.
Remember, the Mongols, and Gengis Khan himself, were enslaved and oppressed by the other powers around them. Their whole conquest was the result of centuries old trauma of being a disorganized, nomadic people weakened by internal conflict and exploited by 'civilised' people. This is why Gengis Khan was so excessive in his treatment of those he perceived as exploitative or having too much power, and absolutely did not tolerate dissent. He himself was captured as a young boy and kept as a slave by another tribe after they poisoned his father.
There's that famous story of how he was once kept in a slave in a certain chinese kingdom, where he was kept in a cage in a public square so people could mock him or throw stones at him. A monk offered him food, and basically said "when you come back for revenge, as I know you will, please spare my monastry". Later, when Khan wiped the kingdom off the face of the earth, the monastry was the only thing left standing.
Not saying he was a good guy but damn, he repaid that kindness like a man... wait how would that monastery survive though? Wouldn't it be in danger of roaming bandits since the previous kingdom is practically dead?
@@guardianofthetoasters2323probably mongol protection
@@guardianofthetoasters2323 Like Nockgun said, Mongol protection. Under Genghis Khan, the Mongols boasted that a virgin carrying gold could cross the empire alone and be unmolested out of fear of the government's wrath. If the story is true, then Genghis probably would have commanded the local government to protect the monastery at pain of death, and nobody was stupid enough to try to attack it because they didn't want to face whatever punishment they'd get for attacking a place that was under the protection of THE Khan himself.
Being an anime fan, I see a lot of nods to Princess Mononoke, but almost every time someone makes fan art, it's of San, Princess Mononoke. I'm always looking for artwork of Ashitaka, because he was my favorite character, but I hardly ever do. I wanna say it's because San is an attractive woman, of course. Yet, after watching this video and witnessing the state of western culture, it makes me think people might gravitate toward yay nature and screw humans.
I know Princess Mononoke gets the title card, but I liked Lady Hiboshi tbh.
@@pinzig especially with her slight accent in the English dub, right? Haha!
Nah I think thay it's to do with her bring a wifu
This is why I find so interesting how Miyazaki was advised to change the title from Legend of Ashitaka to Princess Mononoke, because it would be more memorable (which mean marketable). The neutral balanced opinions are never the sexiest :(
@@luciev4914 this, a shame. but as ever, sex sells.
This is pure gold! Why can't we as humans dig a little deeper into complex issues and see the causes and effects of the whole picture? If we understand that, we can give each other a little slack for why we are who we are, then we won't have to become so nasty with one another.
35:15. This actually would be an interesting story to read in a book/comic book, watch within a show or movie series, or played in a video game. (edit: forgot to put "/comic book")
Because the world is cursed bruh. That doesn’t just mean nature is cruel, it means humans are innately sinful. Like the oc said, you gotta beyond humanity to transcend human nature(repent and turn to Christ)
@@cosmictreason2242 God bless you in Jesus mighty name, Jesus of Nazareth the Christ!
unfortunately there is no society that can overcome the Us vs Them mentality... or the rare ones that do just get violently conquered by their neighbours/invaders :v
17:31 - THANK YOU. Recognizing that industry is not anti-nature, but is part of nature, is a paradigm shift that we desperately need more people to understand. We are unable to do anything unnatural; we are part of nature.
Additionally, natural vs unnatural is an unhelpful way to look at things. I think it's so much better to think about wholesome/sustainable vs not. I'd rather have people getting around on electric trains and streetcars than have them all individually trying to feed and house animals to pull them around just because it's "more natural." I'd rather have a fiberglass insulated house heated by solar or windmills or geothermal than a wattle-and-daub hut with a smoky fire just to keep warm. Technological advances give us so much opportunity to live more efficiently, with less of an impact, if we only focused on building this kind of future instead of wallowing in self-hatred.
@@eyesofthecervino3366 In truth, reality is even better than that. We don't need to drive around in electric cars to save the environment; we already have vastly improved things in that regard (unless you're in China or India, who are generally exempt from all these world treaties on this stuff anyway). Electric vehicles are LESS eco-friendly than modern internal combustion engines due to the ineffiencies of the batteries and the need to still generate the power (and various governments' refusal to green light natural gas and nuclear power plants, leading to coal being the only reliable kind since solar and wind farms are a very expensive joke).
The more we advance in seeking efficient, cheaper power, the cleaner things get, because efficiency is cheaper and less polluting.
@@segevstormlord3713
Oh, I meant streetcars as in trolley cars. Battery powered electric cars are several nightmares rolled into one, I agree.
Your channel it's so underated, as a child I always thought that the natives were better humans as they could live in communion with nature and all, but as I got older and I started to learn about civilizations I was able to see their flaws too, for instance, today it's known that in the Island of Pascoa the people exhausted so badly the ecosystem that they have to move out from there because there was nothing left to survive from. This simplistic view of live that today we have it's very hypocritical and blindsided to many aspects of human nature, and Hollywood lately is hyping up this because is going along with the current thinking of political activist. I don't see productions from there anymore because it got so full of ideologies I no longer feel any type of immersion in most movies, as a woman I feel tired of being pandered about too. Not wonder most comics in the US are losing the battle to Asia ones, mostly Japan. I digress a lot lol, but I think you got the point.
indeed, we're all human. The Maya had a similar ecological collapse caused by their massive construction work which caused a civilization ending famine. We can all also appreciate their virtues and accomplishments too which is what you were doing which is admirable. The Mayan mathematicians were something else and their architecture is pretty incredible. Also a native culture I really like are the Hopi whom I read about when I was 7 and I never really forgot about them. When fiction talks about peaceful and wise natives its usually taken from the Hopi people in my understanding. They are among the closest to this idealized view we see of the native cultures in fiction. But they are also just human like us. Idealizing any people too much also gets in the way real understanding between people which is necessary for positive intercultural interactions.
forgive me if I was preachy. bottom line is I agree with you
@@PilgrimsPass Same man. Luckily I am making a comic that isn’t preachy. Maybe there is some cringe but it’s mostly because this is the first series I’m making.
@@PilgrimsPass Whites have a victim complex.
Hollywood always goes along with the current dominating political direction, always has. It's almost like it's the propaganda department of the government.
I've never given anyone on RUclips money before, in fact I generally block all ads with third-party programs.
The well-compiled visuals and in-depth comparison was very enjoyable, even professional. When you began going into real cited history; that's when I decided to donate.
There's good follow-through and flow in saying that historically illiterate people perpetuate bad ideas, explaining why the ideas are bad, and then proceeding to reduce the aforementioned illiteracy.
I look forward to seeing what you make next.
- Cheers, from PA.
thank you very much bro, I hope my next work can live up to your support
you say all this like youre dropping insane money but its just a tenner bro
Mononoke is just a wonderful timeless classic, I get inspired every time I watch it.
>Make primitive society
>Have forest magic replicate the bulk of modern conveniences.
It is crazy the the Avatar game tells and shows the story so much better then the film it is based on
Well I guess to be fair, a game doesn’t really have the same time constraints as a movie, a film at-most would rather have 2-3 hours to prevent audience boredom, but a game can end up being as long as 20 as the players can go at their own pace and even take breaks, and the extra time also makes the story be more developed than be limited to fit under the time constraints
Why so many people wished for the deleted scenes of avatar to be officialized, is due to them showing more fairness, and even developing some of the human side, however they were deleted due to extending the film well over 4 hours
Though in retrospect I think it’s because showing the humans vulnerabilities or things that may incur understanding and sympathy would go against the message James wanted avatar to give
I'll just say that despite watching Princess Mononoke over 10 times, you still help me realize what's great in it and offered a new perspective to help me love it even more. Lady Eboshi and Ashikata becomes seems to be better characters over time ageing like fine wine.
My only criticism of your work is that you're giving too much credit on the Japanese as a whole than Miyazaki. Hayao Miyazaki is amazingly progressive with his writing of women, but it's not the norm.
I don't know if you will ever see this comment but I suggest the topic of the Final Fantasy series' hate boner on religion (particularly War of the Lions, X, XII). The series removes a lot of nuances and outright demonizes religion as cartoon villains.
Absolutely, the overwhelming majority of mainstream Japanese media these days is just as trash as hollywood and I'm sick of weebs pretending otherwise. I feel like the blind tribalism at the start of the video is incredibly ironic considering the literal topic of the essay.
@@jimjimson6208 true, it’s like comparing different genres like saying Rap is better than Rock as if there isn’t bad Rap and bad Rock and good Rap and good Rock. Hate how people stick in one similar genre, instead of spreading out and listening, reading, watching and comprehending more than one genre.
i will play this game i like when religion is demonized
@@darthtyranous4514 dude what did you choose between demon slayer and the last marvel movie
@@JustBuyTheWaywardsRealms bruh. come on now,, ur literally doing what I talked about. Ignoring that there's good both from Hollywood and Japanese animation & that there isn't really one that is better than the other. You can enjoy stuff like the Demon Slayer Movie, but also hate 90% of most Isekai anime. Simultaneously you can enjoy Christopher Nolan Movies while also hating the dogshit movies that are spewed out of Hollywood.
With you literally hand-picking Demon Slayer that you knew did good at the box office and was well-recieved vs a sub-par movie proves that you have chosen to ignore dog-shit adaptations so you can state something is better than something else when in actuality it isn't.
I always felt that Princess Mononoke was talking to me in a deeper sense, it quite so educated me to be more compassionate as I grew older and kept that movie close to heart. Princess Mononoke is a blessing.
I have watched Avatar twice.
I remember my first watch being blown away by the visuals, but I hated the over all message of the movie because it just didn't "feel right" Though I was too young to fully understand why.
When I watched it again a year ago with my wife (Who absolutely loves the movie) The felt same feeling of "This just doesn't feel right" rose in me again. I eventually expressed my feelings about the film to my wife who was a bit dismayed that I didn't like the movie as much as she did and you basically summarized the same conclusion about Avatar that I came to. Only I wish I had the comparison to Princess Mononoke to illustrate my argument more clearly. We namely got hung up on this lie that "The Na'vi were forced to fight the humans because the Humans left them no other choice." Which just isn't the case and I couldn't make the argument clear. My wife stated, that peace between the Na'vi and the Humans would basically be an idealistic pipe-dream. To which I said... Yes, it is idealistic, but it isn't impossible. Only difficult. That's what makes an "ideal" (aka, a higher way of thinking/acting)
What irks me is that this supposedly "peaceful tribe" they didn't even try to make peace with humans (or if they did, we didn't see it in the film, but fact I'm left with the opposite feeling when you notice arrows in the tire of the vehicle at the beginning of the film.) Which just left me feeling like the Na'vi were just as barbaric of people as the humans were and in the end, just made me not want to root for either side in the conflict. Humans invading and destroying the land of it's native people vs the Na'vi feeling justified in resorting to violence just because our main protagonist gives them the knowledge on how they fight back. It just feeds into this narrow minded mentality in our culture that everything is always Good Guy vs Bad Guy, Oppressor vs Oppressed. "Defenseless Nature Lovers Goooood... Powerful Industrialists Baaaad."
I love this insightful connection between Avatar and Princess Mononoke and I'm kind of shocked I wasn't able to draw a line between the two films. I completely agree with the arguments made regarding why these two films are different and how Princess Mononoke is simply the better, more thought out, film
I don't much like avatar either, but the actions of the na'vi are entirely reasonable given that the humans are invading. Fighting back against an invader doesn't make them barbaric, and it certainly doesn't make them just as barbaric as the humans, who are willing to do just about anything to them for the resource they're seeking.
The navi did try to make peace with the humans. Grace (the scientist) even set up a school, and taught them english. They had good relations until the RDA (greedy corporation) started destroying their home, and their sacred places. The navi were 100% ready to live peacfully with the humans. The humans are not the bad guys in Avatar. Capitalism and imperialism is. Greed and overconsumption is the bad guy.
Im getting really fed up with so many people wildly misinterpreting everything about avatar, and shitting on it based on bad faith interpretations. Its driving me nuts seeing droves of people who didnt seem to be paying attention when they watched it, and are now calling it a terrible movie based on their own biases.
I feel like whats also important in Princess Mononoke is Ashitaka being one of the Emishi, indigenous Japanease that got wiped out. This really ties his origins to the movies themes
Really? I did not know that there was a different ethnic group within the islands of Japan other than the Ainu at the far North of Hokkaido and the Ryukyuan in the far south
The latter in that it was once its own independent kingdom untill it was annexed by the Japanese in the late 1870s as part of the Meiji Restoration
Yes I know right, even Japan did the same thing to its own ethnic minorities as the United States
@@rejvaik00 well before modern day japanese arrived there were several ethnic groups living there, Emishi is kind of an umbrella term as far as I'm aware, they seem to share some aspects with Ainu and the last Emishi integrated into Ainu societies
You have a God given gift sir.
I hope this will not cause you to become prideful, but you are an agent of peace on this world.
in pricess mononoke shows that all sides can be assholes if they do not control their own obsessions. The obsession of power, the obsession of revenge, the obsession to conquer nature.
In avatar the ''good guys'' are cartoony good and the ''bad guys'' are cartoony bad so it can be easier for the audience to pick a side and say ''yea they are assholes, they should kill them all''.
In one of the deleted scenes the navi assaulted a human convoy that was just minding their own business and killed them all in cold blood, and the assault to the tree was actualy a responce to that attack. It was deleted so the navi faction could keep their ''pureness and innocence'' as the only victims.
Not to mention the other deleted scenes where we find out that they don't have all that large of a security force, so they conscripted miners and other civilians to fight in that final battle. They said they took it out because they wanted "the human military to seem for formidable", but it seems more to me like it would be hard for an audience to enjoy watching barely trained civilians being eaten alive by dragons.
Oh, and let's not forget that the Colonel enacted a military coup when the CEO guy tried to stop him from bombing the tree of souls.
Both are portrayed to have obsessions and being assholes, like when they didn't listen and to the doctor and Jake and tied them up and went to kill themselves. It was only after they bombed the Tree Jake took a side and decided to start killing. I'm sorry but you guys just want to see what you want to see.
@@sellerim6847 refusing to listen to someone you just found out was a spy sent by your enemy isn't exactly bad guy behavior, which is what we were talking about in regards to "being assholes".
I get so much more inspiration for writing from anime over what Hollywood is currently producing.
I’m writing a series about Druids, Who are heavily tied with nature. However, I’m taking a more nuanced approach to their history and their relationship (and by extension humanity’s) with nature. In fact Princess Mononoke was one of the main inspirations for the main conflict in the story. In fact one of the first things That’s mentioned in the story is this “ nature is beautiful and cruel.”
I've always loved the idea of a 'city druid' playing into the natural rhythms of the city and of humanity.
@Matthew Ryan is there a source for where I could find this story
@@smashley4661 I’m still writing it. I’ll keep updating it.
@@TheRoomforImprovement thanks
@@TheRoomforImprovement u finished that paper? I’d love to look at it.
Well done. Nature goes beyond trees and animals. It can't be that simple and I wish more adults would recognize that. We all play a part, whether we hate ourselves or not.
Yes, it is too about bugs, fungus, microscopic animals, algae... and we raze them too.
Sorry but that of We are the dominant specie so we can destroy everyone else if we like sounds completely evil.
Instresting fact about 28:09 - in the german Version of princess mononoke, lady Eboshi says: "Does this right hand of yours try to take control of you and kill me?" (which is quite similar to the english version) and Ashitaka responds: "If it could lift the curse, i would do it with my left.". It`s just asmall difference, but this implies that Ashitaka is ready to actively kill Eboshi to free the world and not just let the curse do the work. I think the translaters did a grat job there, cause this dialog catches Ashitakas spirit early on and his threat in 24:05 becomes much more believeable :)
I can't believe I almost passed up this masterpiece of a video essay. I had no idea that Europe was being invaded at the same time as their invasion of the Americas. I had a rough idea of the time periods, but I think it's really easy to separate simultaneous events into chronologically distinct ones when they aren't put in reference to one another. Thank you for talking about this using such a fascinating comparison.
the perspectives of both humans and avatar should have been shown like princess Mononoke showing both party’s reasonings for what they do instead of being biased towards one side.
that’s what I’ve gotten from this video I’m curious the point someone else got from this video was.
That is not the whole picture as well though... the problem wasn't the war. There was always war when two groups or ideologies were next to each other. For example the Roman Empire conquered large parts of the Germanic lands and later on some Germanic tribes conquered the Empire. Alexander conquered all of Mediterranea. The Reconquista for example is a conflict in this region at this time. They were used to that. The problem for Portugal for example was the loss of the Silk Road, because it meant a loss of luxury goods that strengthened the economy.
I agree. Ironically you can have a cartoonish evil villain and from their own pov they would have reasons at why they are doing things. Not that their is anything wrong with a simple villain, the classic kill the demon king story is fun and leaves time to focus on other things like the heroes. (In Avatar the humans would just strata bomb the planet with viruses and if tree magic stops it then just use napalm.)
Good old Exterminatus. Gotta purge the xenos for the Emperor
@@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750 A Exterminatus would make it vary easy to mine the plot mineral.
Great points.
In the Halo series, the war with the Covenant aliens caused the conflict between human worlds to be glossed over and somewhat pushed to the side. The spartens were actually created as antiterrorism warriors and just happened to come to adulthood around the time the aliens were invading.
But my point is that in the books there was that conflict you mentioned between human wars, and even later games allowed a bit more nuance between factions witj the arbitor and the betrayal of the Elites.
this, even Halo has nuisance.
Consider when halo was released. They pivoted the lire to better resonate with their american audience.
@@512TheWolf512 No, they just wanted to write a cool space story about good and evil.
They created the Insurrectionists without giving them much purchase in the games (apart from a few Marine stand-ins in Halo Reach) specifically to justify why the Spartans already existed by the time of first contact. That's why they were so evil with the whole nuking civilians thing.
I've never seen Princess Mononoke before, I imagined that it was gonna be like some average disney princess movie before I saw this video, and holy shit, the story sounds a lot better than I initially thought, and its pragmatic too.
ghibli movies cannot be compared to mere disney films...
You too eh?
@@destroyazoid2060 It's one of the best pieces of cinema you will ever watch.
While some Disney princess movies are really good and insightful, I’d say ghibli movies almost always are ❤
Miyazaki films cannot be compared to Disney. They are way better. Some Disney movies are very insightful like Bambie II or Hunchback of Notre Dame. Maybe because they're passion projects not cash grabs. So no sexualization & other shit.
i swear, the thumbnail is so hilarious.
Simp traitor. Sigma diplomat
I always find it hilarious that people relate to Agent Smith's speech that "humans are a virus", when in The Matrix Reloaded, Smith basically turns into a virus.
Doesn't make him wrong about humans.
@@averagedemocrat9546 does make him kind of a hypocrite though
@@Grudgebearer47 And?
youtube wont let me edit comment.
Well, he is the villain and whatnot and making him some perfect angel AI isn't the best writing.
@@averagedemocrat9546 Humans aren't the virus, we're the immune system. Things like socialism and Islam are the cancers and autoimmune disorders.
Your careful finesse with explaining interwoven points in history and storytelling is unparalleled on RUclips, my friend. You do us all an incredible service and provide awesome entertainment. You're awesome, dude ✌💀
You perfectly put into words that strange feeling I got watching Princess Mononoke for the first time. Going into it, I thought I was getting that man bad vs nature good trope we had seen time and time again but as soon as Ashitaka arrives in Iron town the feel is completely different. Getting to know the industrial humans as humans and not just the villains of the movie was soooo strange and made it incredibly conflicting to side completely with one side for the rest of the movie. Of course you don’t have to side with San or Iron town, that’s the point, but we’re so used to being fed these black and white narratives.
Wow, that was probably one of the best videos that I have came across recently and it's not just because I am a Princess Mononoke superfan (lol!) It also explained how so many recent films (not just Avatar) lack depth and humanity that is present within conflict and just reduce conflict to a very black and white picture of supreme good versus absolute evil. Princess Mononoke teaches that war and conflict is complex with various factors that can even fall beyond the control of the people engaged in the struggle and also how quickly people pick sides, as Ashitaka was accused by both Eboshi and San for siding with their respective counterparts when in reality he was trying to see the best in both worlds. A very relevant message in today's cancel culture ridden world and where we are expected to jump to one side or another when it comes to political, economic or cultural divides. And kudos for pointing out about the importance about knowing and understanding about the history of humankind beyond the superficial "white man is evil, everyone else is good" stuff we get taught in our history classes nowadays, we cannot eliminate hate by using more hate but instead understand why people did the deeds they did in the past and use this understanding to prevent similar tragedies in the future. Finally, the historical summary you did at the end where you explored why the Europeans attacked the Native Americans and the Ottoman Empire's push into Europe, clearly, someone did their homework! As someone else may have suggested, Nausicaa (another personal favourite of mine) explores similar themes in a slightly different way from Princess Mononoke, that could be another one that you can dissect and explore the themes behind as well.
Once again, a very insightful video not just about one of the greatest films of all time (change my mind lol) but also how important it us it is to review history from an unbiased point of view so that we can actually get closer to a world with less conflict and "to see with eyes unclouded with hate". That quote gives me the chills! Keep up the good work mate!