I disagree, from a woman’s perspective I truly believe Lindsay was caught off guard. She thought they were good bc they were, every time she checked in he reassured her that he loved her & wanted to marry her. Unbeknownst to her, Carl is having conversations with literally everybody else but her, how is he not misleading her??? A grown man pushing 40 with no job that lacks the courage to be honest with his fiancé 2 months before the wedding clearly wasn’t ready for marriage however, Lindsay didn’t deserve that.
This is my first season of the show and my impression of Carl is that he is manipulative, but not in a mean or nasty way ( he’s not plotting to make Lindsay look bad. But he is for sure preproducing these conversations ) however his manipulation is coming more from a fearful place. He set that scene up with his parents, knowing what they would say since they spoke about it last time he was down there. Think about everything that went into setting up that conversation: He had to contact his parents and producers then had an entire camera crew drive out set the scene up…it wasn’t a spontaneous conversation, it was planned and scheduled. It feels he knew that they would say what he was afraid to and once they said the magic words then he immediately goes back to his friends in the house using his parents opinion of their relationship as a shield instead of speaking truthfully and directly about how he feels to Lindsey. I won’t call him a coward because do believe that Carl did experience verbal abuse, and I do believe that he is fearful, but as a viewer…it does also come across as manipulation from a fearful man desperately trying to find a way out of a situation he knows isn’t healthy by using the voice of his parents instead of his own. Either way not picking sides, both didn’t belong together tbh
Carl is afraid of his own shadow and any conflict. Not just Lindsey. He couldn’t approach Kyle about his old job at lover boy without Lindsey giving him the courage to. He couldn’t stand up to Kyle when he was saying horrible things about Lindsey to his face and the whole house last summer. He never stands up to people except when he used to be wasted. He lets others take the blame every time (I.e. my parents think we shouldn’t get married, not me). Lindsey has problems with taking accountability as well.
Ciara should not have chimed in and called Jesse a trash bag. That was absolutely wrong. But if you watch the after show we are reminded at the sketchy things Jesse has done which could have led Ciara to call him that. He has definitely chimed in with the Ciara and West situation when it was not appropriate. The scene where he asked Ciara, "When are you going to have sex with my friend?" was extremely "trash baggish". He had the audacity to ask that and really felt entitled to an answer. He was wrong for that and should have apologized.
It doesn't matter because we love West amd Jesse! This is basically the logic behind everyone playing dumb regarding her interactions with him and why she might have a little more to say than others.
Okay what annoys me the most with any conversation from Brav Bros on Lindsey and Carl situation is that they say they are not taking sides but they are actually taking his side. What I hear is “Carl is a human, makes mistakes and we are not in relationship to know what happens behind closed door” but if Lindsey does something the reaction is how dare she says this and that, blah blah! Carl gets graces and justification for his actions but Lindsey gets criticism and lots of heat. If you are in the middles then you call both of them out for their bad behaviour, you dont justify ones behaviour and dont give the same graces to the other one. Just be honest and say you are on his side and thats absolutely fine.
Exactly!! Thank you! Ooh poor Carl he was anxious talking to her, his hands were shaking… she was her best friend but now he’s scared of her?! Sure. Let’s not forget how he’s saying everywhere that he has ptsd from their relationship
appreciate a woman’s pov on this episode. for the first time in a while feels like we’re seeing some of the same old Carl who in his cowardice, plays games or manipulates situations on and off camera with these strong smart independent and beautiful women he’s attracted to that entertain him. Clearly he has a type but cannot navigate a genuine honest relationship long enough to meet these women with what they deserve so he eventually just bails. This insulting narrative that Lindsay is the big bad wolf with a terrified Carl feels unfairly exaggerated just because she’s basically a grown woman with more of a boldly expressive type A personality. and yes we know the history of her mother wounds and temper. but i know women working hard with hard exteriors who just want space to be soft and find unconditional love and security these days who deal with this in dating all the time. they might give dating friends a shot only to end up in the same spot by someone they thought they knew. Carl needs to grow up. and both these people are vets at this show and long time companions so they know each other very well. with that, watching, Carl is playing Lindsay like he has women in the past where he could never just be real with them so instead hurts them being messy. and in this case it definitely seems like he’s using his parents and anyone else to speak for him or get a rise out of Lindsay so he can have an excuse to blow up the relationship and run. She’s not giving him that. Angry was not the word but he definitely seemed frustrated with her or his planning and outcome. It’s sad to see in this episode how desperately Lindsay wants to hold on to how good things seem to be between them as the wedding gets closer and he continues to give her nothing real and direct. and after her behavior towards his sobriety earlier on, it’s just all around embarrassing she’s been so cringe as a fiancé under the impression they’re love was bigger than their problems. tbh Delulu land is place and like many women who’ve unfortunately even went on to enter into bad marriages in good faith and love in potential, Lindsay is in it with blinders on here. It’s definitely a blessing to them both to have parted, but Carl did not have to do her like that. He always rides the season out selfishly and then tries to express and address the mess after the fact, when the truth is he was miserable at the start of the season and appears to have produced and masked his way to the end. I hope they both got better therapists. whew!
Dude! You are using the two ships passing in the night phrase WRONG!!!! It means people who meet for a brief but intense moment and then part, never to see each other again.
Did anyone watch the after show with Paige and Ciarra ? It was wierd , Paige came off really tough in regards to Craig while Cierra egged her on . She even said Craig never asked her to get engaged. She was acting like this won’t change Craig’s life only mine. Of course she has to carry the baby but I doubt Craig would be the absentee father leaving the burden on her. I love her but she suddenly seemed ticked off and defensive.
Yeah I don’t see Carl planning all this, but he did handle things clumsily. I also don’t like the fact that people say that Carl should have known who he was marrying. I mean the guy changed his LIFE, why wouldn’t he think that Lindsey would show up differently too.
Let’s call a spade a spade. Carl is PETRIFIED of Lindsey’s outbursts. Heck, I AM as a viewer. 😂. We saw on earlier episode that she flipped he lid… again, bc he suggested they push the wedding 2 months. Huge fight and that’s when Carl fled to NJ to recover. This is my thing, Carl as newly sober, is highly emotional, more so than normal people. The other fallacy in this Carl/Lindsey duo is that she gets to feel all if her really destructive emotions on every one, but has an excuse. Carl cannot fart upwind without SM peanut gallery telling him to man up. Men have emotions too that NEED TO BE FREAKING respected. He’s scared of her. Rightfully! He wants out without getting “Sandovaled” 🤣🤣🤣. I do not blame him for treading lightly around Hurricane Linds. I guarantee you this is what Sandoval should’ve done with a person you no longer feel like satisfies you, but wants to force you to stay with them. Build a trail, let them show their true colors, don’t pretend you are ok, confide in family and friends. 😞
@ZEBEEtheoriginal. 🙏🙏. That was so hard to watch. Why ambush Carl mom at your event?? But that's Lindsey. Her feels must be more important than everyone else. Shdh. So rude. Ppl give Lindsey an excuse for her unacceptable, in your face, abrasive F All behaviors. Rude!!!
@@ZEBEEtheoriginal whether she was wrong or not, it still came out of nowhere at the dinner in that moment. And blindsided Jesse since they are friends. It shifted the mood. With misplaced anger it spills out at the wrong time.
@@kirsten_305 Um. It didn't come out of nowhere. Have you watched the season? Also it was prefaced by an explicit question. Watch again instead of being a driver. She wasn't even wrong in her reasoning. People who don't empathize with her and don't acknowledge her experiences with him and watching him will never see the truth.
@@ZEBEEtheoriginal yes Ive watched the episode and every episode of every season. My point is that her blurting out to Jesse you are a trash bag, etc came out of nowhere AT THE DINNER! That is why everyone was so shocked and if you watch the latest episode even West and Kyle were like huh? Which proves that her comment came out of nowhere and shifted the mood there is not denying that. Also, Ciara is nice and passive. She is not Paige, who probably could have gotten away with it. Yes, Jesse has been talking about his dating life all season and everyone laughs it off basically so while technically her thought process of not agreeing with the way he moves is fine, in that moment where everyone is laughing etc , her shifting the mood by saying that did come out of nowhere. And its all about delivery and tone which is why she apologized the next day. Ciara is not good at reads so it was a flop moment for her and she apologized. Listen, I hate to see it for Ciara. Think whatever you want, but you’re definitely missing my point.
I disagree, from a woman’s perspective I truly believe Lindsay was caught off guard. She thought they were good bc they were, every time she checked in he reassured her that he loved her & wanted to marry her. Unbeknownst to her, Carl is having conversations with literally everybody else but her, how is he not misleading her??? A grown man pushing 40 with no job that lacks the courage to be honest with his fiancé 2 months before the wedding clearly wasn’t ready for marriage however, Lindsay didn’t deserve that.
Sad for Lindsey and Carl, but their marriage would have been torture for both of them.
This is the 2nd time Carl blindsided Lindsey. After the fingerb*ng situation they tried to start dating and Carl dumped her
I’m nervous Cierra and West are so scared of getting hurt that they are going to hurt each other . It’s frustrating to watch.
This is my first season of the show and my impression of Carl is that he is manipulative, but not in a mean or nasty way ( he’s not plotting to make Lindsay look bad. But he is for sure preproducing these conversations ) however his manipulation is coming more from a fearful place.
He set that scene up with his parents, knowing what they would say since they spoke about it last time he was down there. Think about everything that went into setting up that conversation: He had to contact his parents and producers then had an entire camera crew drive out set the scene up…it wasn’t a spontaneous conversation, it was planned and scheduled.
It feels he knew that they would say what he was afraid to and once they said the magic words then he immediately goes back to his friends in the house using his parents opinion of their relationship as a shield instead of speaking truthfully and directly about how he feels to Lindsey. I won’t call him a coward because do believe that Carl did experience verbal abuse, and I do believe that he is fearful, but as a viewer…it does also come across as manipulation from a fearful man desperately trying to find a way out of a situation he knows isn’t healthy by using the voice of his parents instead of his own.
Either way not picking sides, both didn’t belong together tbh
Brittney definitely knew who Jax was. Brittney should have listened to her dad.
Carl is afraid of his own shadow and any conflict. Not just Lindsey. He couldn’t approach Kyle about his old job at lover boy without Lindsey giving him the courage to. He couldn’t stand up to Kyle when he was saying horrible things about Lindsey to his face and the whole house last summer. He never stands up to people except when he used to be wasted. He lets others take the blame every time (I.e. my parents think we shouldn’t get married, not me). Lindsey has problems with taking accountability as well.
Love your take on the whole situation ❤
Ciara should not have chimed in and called Jesse a trash bag. That was absolutely wrong. But if you watch the after show we are reminded at the sketchy things Jesse has done which could have led Ciara to call him that. He has definitely chimed in with the Ciara and West situation when it was not appropriate. The scene where he asked Ciara, "When are you going to have sex with my friend?" was extremely "trash baggish". He had the audacity to ask that and really felt entitled to an answer. He was wrong for that and should have apologized.
He’s acting like a trash bag.
Wrong phrase but she was absolutely right.
It doesn't matter because we love West amd Jesse! This is basically the logic behind everyone playing dumb regarding her interactions with him and why she might have a little more to say than others.
Happy to contribute $5 to the bros!!!!
Okay what annoys me the most with any conversation from Brav Bros on Lindsey and Carl situation is that they say they are not taking sides but they are actually taking his side. What I hear is “Carl is a human, makes mistakes and we are not in relationship to know what happens behind closed door” but if Lindsey does something the reaction is how dare she says this and that, blah blah! Carl gets graces and justification for his actions but Lindsey gets criticism and lots of heat. If you are in the middles then you call both of them out for their bad behaviour, you dont justify ones behaviour and dont give the same graces to the other one. Just be honest and say you are on his side and thats absolutely fine.
Exactly!! Thank you! Ooh poor Carl he was anxious talking to her, his hands were shaking… she was her best friend but now he’s scared of her?! Sure. Let’s not forget how he’s saying everywhere that he has ptsd from their relationship
appreciate a woman’s pov on this episode. for the first time in a while feels like we’re seeing some of the same old Carl who in his cowardice, plays games or manipulates situations on and off camera with these strong smart independent and beautiful women he’s attracted to that entertain him. Clearly he has a type but cannot navigate a genuine honest relationship long enough to meet these women with what they deserve so he eventually just bails. This insulting narrative that Lindsay is the big bad wolf with a terrified Carl feels unfairly exaggerated just because she’s basically a grown woman with more of a boldly expressive type A personality. and yes we know the history of her mother wounds and temper. but i know women working hard with hard exteriors who just want space to be soft and find unconditional love and security these days who deal with this in dating all the time. they might give dating friends a shot only to end up in the same spot by someone they thought they knew. Carl needs to grow up. and both these people are vets at this show and long time companions so they know each other very well. with that, watching, Carl is playing Lindsay like he has women in the past where he could never just be real with them so instead hurts them being messy. and in this case it definitely seems like he’s using his parents and anyone else to speak for him or get a rise out of Lindsay so he can have an excuse to blow up the relationship and run. She’s not giving him that. Angry was not the word but he definitely seemed frustrated with her or his planning and outcome. It’s sad to see in this episode how desperately Lindsay wants to hold on to how good things seem to be between them as the wedding gets closer and he continues to give her nothing real and direct. and after her behavior towards his sobriety earlier on, it’s just all around embarrassing she’s been so cringe as a fiancé under the impression they’re love was bigger than their problems. tbh Delulu land is place and like many women who’ve unfortunately even went on to enter into bad marriages in good faith and love in potential, Lindsay is in it with blinders on here. It’s definitely a blessing to them both to have parted, but Carl did not have to do her like that. He always rides the season out selfishly and then tries to express and address the mess after the fact, when the truth is he was miserable at the start of the season and appears to have produced and masked his way to the end. I hope they both got better therapists. whew!
Hey Bros! I've really been enjoying the content this year and this is a cool way to support you guys. Just joined! 😍
Dude! You are using the two ships passing in the night phrase WRONG!!!! It means people who meet for a brief but intense moment and then part, never to see each other again.
Nuh uh… 👀
Did anyone watch the after show with Paige and Ciarra ? It was wierd , Paige came off really tough in regards to Craig while Cierra egged her on . She even said Craig never asked her to get engaged. She was acting like this won’t change Craig’s life only mine. Of course she has to carry the baby but I doubt Craig would be the absentee father leaving the burden on her. I love her but she suddenly seemed ticked off and defensive.
Haven’t been liking Paige as much this season. She snapped at Danielle and then had that conversation with Craig right after🤣.
Good point. Craig and Paige getting engaged is a natural next step. I don't know what that hasn't happened. Does he think she will say no?
Thanks!
Thank You!!!!
Been waiting for a membership or a Patreon! Baby birds unite!
Yeah I don’t see Carl planning all this, but he did handle things clumsily. I also don’t like the fact that people say that Carl should have known who he was marrying. I mean the guy changed his LIFE, why wouldn’t he think that Lindsey would show up differently too.
Part of his change was permanent unemployment.
Let’s call a spade a spade. Carl is PETRIFIED of Lindsey’s outbursts. Heck, I AM as a viewer. 😂. We saw on earlier episode that she flipped he lid… again, bc he suggested they push the wedding 2 months. Huge fight and that’s when Carl fled to NJ to recover. This is my thing, Carl as newly sober, is highly emotional, more so than normal people. The other fallacy in this Carl/Lindsey duo is that she gets to feel all if her really destructive emotions on every one, but has an excuse. Carl cannot fart upwind without SM peanut gallery telling him to man up. Men have emotions too that NEED TO BE FREAKING respected. He’s scared of her. Rightfully! He wants out without getting “Sandovaled” 🤣🤣🤣. I do not blame him for treading lightly around Hurricane Linds. I guarantee you this is what Sandoval should’ve done with a person you no longer feel like satisfies you, but wants to force you to stay with them. Build a trail, let them show their true colors, don’t pretend you are ok, confide in family and friends. 😞
Do you think there will be a 2 or 3 part reunion? If 3 part which part is the dud?
I didn’t agree with west that you can’t be exclusive and not have sex. I don’t like he is stuck on that part.
love yall!
Team Lindsay if she goes sober in a year / if she was then than what’s the argument against her
Yassssssss 1st!
Paige gave the engagement nod in one of her confessionals
Lindsay's behavior towards Carl's mother was outrageous. I could never.
@ZEBEEtheoriginal. 🙏🙏. That was so hard to watch. Why ambush Carl mom at your event?? But that's Lindsey. Her feels must be more important than everyone else. Shdh. So rude. Ppl give Lindsey an excuse for her unacceptable, in your face, abrasive F All behaviors. Rude!!!
My take w/Ciara’s “trash bag” remark to Jesse was that it was maybe misdirected disgust really rooted w/Austen.
I think Ciara was taking out her West frustration on Jesse. It wasn’t nice and came out of nowhere.
Didn't come out of nowhere. Wish she'd used different words but she was not wrong.
@@ZEBEEtheoriginal whether she was wrong or not, it still came out of nowhere at the dinner in that moment. And blindsided Jesse since they are friends. It shifted the mood. With misplaced anger it spills out at the wrong time.
@@kirsten_305 Um. It didn't come out of nowhere. Have you watched the season? Also it was prefaced by an explicit question. Watch again instead of being a driver. She wasn't even wrong in her reasoning. People who don't empathize with her and don't acknowledge her experiences with him and watching him will never see the truth.
@@ZEBEEtheoriginal yes Ive watched the episode and every episode of every season. My point is that her blurting out to Jesse you are a trash bag, etc came out of nowhere AT THE DINNER! That is why everyone was so shocked and if you watch the latest episode even West and Kyle were like huh? Which proves that her comment came out of nowhere and shifted the mood there is not denying that. Also, Ciara is nice and passive. She is not Paige, who probably could have gotten away with it. Yes, Jesse has been talking about his dating life all season and everyone laughs it off basically so while technically her thought process of not agreeing with the way he moves is fine, in that moment where everyone is laughing etc , her shifting the mood by saying that did come out of nowhere. And its all about delivery and tone which is why she apologized the next day. Ciara is not good at reads so it was a flop moment for her and she apologized. Listen, I hate to see it for Ciara. Think whatever you want, but you’re definitely missing my point.
Lindsay doesn't love Carl, she loves the idea of being married...
Ciara has the HOTS for Jesse. That is why she insulted him She wants him!