Mind Disrupt Podcast | Wrestling the Paradox - Jim Newman.
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- A Conversation with Jim Newman, Wrestling the Paradox.
Join Sam Harris-neuroscientist, philosopher, and New York Times best-selling author-as he explores the practice of meditation and examines the theory behind it.
There are hundreds of meditation apps on the market, and several do a fine job of teaching the basic principles of mindfulness. But most present the practice as though it were an ancient version of an executive stress ball-whereas it’s more like the Hubble Space Telescope. The purpose of meditation isn’t merely to reduce stress or to make you feel better in the moment-it’s to make fundamental discoveries in the laboratory of your own mind.
The Waking Up course is structured around its two core principles:
You can PRACTICE meditation, go beyond mere stress reduction to make profound discoveries about the nature of your own mind. And you can learn the THEORY behind the practice, ground your meditation experience in practical wisdom, ethical insights, and a rational understanding of the world.
Sam Harris is the author of five New York Times bestsellers, including Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion, and the host of the Waking Up Podcast. His writing and public lectures cover a wide range of topics-neuroscience, meditation, moral philosophy, religion, rationality-but generally focus on how a growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.
Sam received a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA. He has practiced meditation for over 30 years and has studied with many Tibetan, Indian, Burmese, and Western meditation teachers, both in the United States and abroad.
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You are the best Jim Newman
Every person who has any interest in ND should listen to this. I love Jim however Sam has always seemed to me like a man too in love with his own mind. And this talk exposes that beautifully - poring from the empty into the void. Sam unwittingly shows us that the mind will never get you there.
Lol, then why are you listening to the podcast.
@@MrCmon113 I’m not. It’s what’s happening…dickhead.
@@MrCmon113 Because the deeper the realization, the greater the paradox.
neti neti can
don't project Sam as being ignorant, he has deeper understanding than newman here, the aggregates do not arise in a non dual state, this is known in every tradition.
I think that "uncompromising" as opposed to "relentless" might be a more apt description of Jim's attempts to convey non-dual "teachings" (my apologies to Jim for the use of this term) if we understand uncompromising to mean that they "...do not attempt to make something that is shocking or unpleasant any more acceptable to people." Although engaging in intellectual gymnastics might be appealing and even entertaining to some, the fact is that these non-dual "teachings" point to something completely beyond the grasp of the the intellect. So much so, that the intellect might consider them completely underwhelming; possibly even creating a perceived need to vigoursly debate them. But for those who are "ready" to hear Jim's direct, uncompromising pointings, this interview is a gem, offering clarity where perhaps there was once deep confusion.
17' Jim and the sense of contracted energy. A beautiful description.the evolution of the separate fet sense.
after really paying attention to this conversation, i have no questions which need to be answered . :D
Love Tony Parsons & Jim Newman
my favorite conversation in the world thus far
Jim resonates with me Sam, seems very clear. Thank you Jim.
46:22 It is simply already everything ❤
Excellent conversation. Greatly appreciated that both men seemed to really listen to each other (even when the message wasn’t always heard 😉).
Odd, though, that Sam seemed so perplexed at the end: “How is it possible for anger to arise” (in one for whom the sense of I or separation has vanished)? [approx . 1:25:00] If such a person saw a dog or child or elderly neighbor being savagely beaten, might not intense anger surge naturally and suddenly in the brain/body, despite there being no I-sense? Same with profound sadness or overflowing joy or fight-or-flight fear? Seems like there are some of these so-called “emotions” that are simply natural chemical and energetic by-products of a human organism being part of “what is”. Even when the illusory sense of I or separation is no longer there.
I agree. I am perplexed at the idea of someone thinking strong emotions can't arise after awakening......
What Jim Newman is trying to say is similar to Mandukya Karika, verse 2.32: There is no dissolution, no birth, none in bondage, none aspiring for wisdom, no seeker of liberation and none liberated. This is the absolute truth.
There is no real individual. Therefore, the term "apparent individual" is a concession, used by the Apparent Individual. In other words, the term "apparent individual" is a paradoxical rabbit hole.
At some point, the ghostly "apparent individual" stops trying to understand the paradox about itself and dissipates.
Lots of this felt like Jim trying to get past a Wall of concepts. Saying that I enjoyed the points brought up and the honesty, thanks
Beautiful conversation. Thank you.
Interesting how Sam is talking about concepts as being true, and Jim is talking about concepts as being part of the illusion.
What a HEAD TRIP!
There is no me, there is no you to thank. ❤
Why does Jim say it’s the end of experience? It’s not the end of thoughts, emotions, preferences, still running the same operating system as the rest of us. Being aware of thoughts, emotions, etc… is experience. As Sam would put it- the contents of consciousness.
Maybe Paris exists only when seen. Maybe space is mind. How to find anything external to senses/mind? Xxx
Questions matter. I don’t really like Sam, but here he systematically asked the right questions and made exactly the mistakes that were needed for the right conversation, which is why Jim’s point in this interview are extremely clear - I would say its better here than in any other youtube video.
10:24 the only way you can have a process and results is if there’s a positional center that knows what’s happening
14:56 consciousness un-happens as far as somebody knowing what this is
1:17:34 consciousness is part of the illusory experience of the individual
1:25:36 the difference between oneness and the state prior to thought
1:34:05 emotions and ownership
The unceasing questions about who did [fill in the blank] seem to overly complicate what is an apparently rather simple situation. Who chose whether to have coffee or tea if the sense that the self is the doer or chooser is illusory?
The apparent difficulty is in describing the actions of a body containing a mind that has a false belief in a thought that says “I am the doer”. Radical nondualists would probably say something like “choosing chooses”, or “no one made the choice, and yet the choice was made”. It reminds me of the story of Odysseus and the cyclops. It would be much more clear if they would use a different description like: the body, the bodymind, or even the organism made the choice.
This character uses the noun phrase "This character" followed by the verb phrase.
This character [enjoys Frisbee golf]. This character [washed the dishes]. This character [is an expression of the infinite, like a wave is an expression of the ocean].
Interesting. What comes to mind for me is, choices in and of themselves are simply witnessed as thoughts.
Perhaps choices as thought forms are illusion and everything is already done. No choice is being made, there is only the appearance of a choice and everything is just happening of itself.
Isn’t it the thinking mind that wraps around the axle trying to choose.
We may or may not be able to choose what we will do, but we cannot choose what we will choose. That is done 6 to 8 seconds ahead of the conscious mind claiming that it made a choice. This has been proven. Researchers were able to accurately predict peoples choices ahead of time 100% of the time.
Loved this discussion. Thank you.
Beautiful Clarity/Freedom/Sacred Unknowing 🙌
Kudos to Sam for keeping his wits and not putting his head through a wall during this discussion. I understand what Jim is going for, but you still have to use words to those who don’t understand. This is the reason why Jim Newman has the chat’s turned off in all of his videos. Though he’s right about the illusion of self and the other things he’s saying, he has no regard for the majority of people that are living in said illusion. Simply stating over and over and over, “it’s not real, so it doesn’t matter,” doesn’t help anyone in the delusion to realize that they are or how to understand and see things differently. A much better choice is Angelo Dilullo. He is realized and liberated, and says the same things Newman states, but he realizes a vast majority of people that believe in the self aren’t going to comprehend, “It’s not real! It’s not real! It’s not real!” Again, for someone with patience, wisdom and compassion, give Angelo’s videos a try.
I don’t think one could say it doesn’t help anyone. Recognizing it is truly unconditional. Expressing it in many different ways works for many different people. There’s not really a better or worse way of pointing to it. That’s shown in all the zen stories of the masters doing or saying seemingly irrelevant things and suddenly it dawns upon the student. There’s no ‘correct’ way of pointing to That which is everything.
Jim isn't trying to help anyone
@@qMartink there’s no need for anyone to ‘try’ helping in order for things to ‘seem’ to help some people or not. You could put it in a more Jim way and say there’s no one to help, sure obviously but this is also clearly relational language referring to the appearance of people doing things haha
@the_absolute_light "I" couldn't agree more as "I" am one of those he has seemed to help. My comment was in response to jeffrey but to be clear I sincerely do not believe JIm has any intention of helping anyone...I'm actually not sure why he delivers the message. Perhaps he finds it a bit ammusing. the whole thing is quite the paradox
@@qMartink totally, without there being an absolute why, I’d have to say the relative why I can conjure up is just because there’s a fascination. Maybe it’s the same for Jim. Maybe it’s just an expression for the sake of the joy of expressing it.
The understanding of THIS is an ADDED_on, but the movement of understanding can appear, this insight doesn't lead to nothing, but, it's nothing appearing as the insight that can not be locked up for clarity when confusion appears. No locking up of anything by the mind!!!!
@@JG-zj5yi locking up appears to happen, but by no for no one. No typing, typing appears to happen
Hard to say what happened here, but very entertaining.
Wow I really enjoyed it!
Thank you for the vídeo
I think Jim Newman is wrong. I think there is a process. It's just that from where he is sitting, it doesn't look that way... man spent 15 years meditating. Ofc that does something to the me-structure.
Meditation is just being yourself. Jim seems to see meditation as just another action. Prior to any action is being. Douglas Harding explorations illuminates nonduality.
All that mediation does is to strengthen's dualism. "I am meditating in the hope that maybe one day I will become enlighten"
@@kalprao Sure, that is a thought that must be seen. Beats doing nothing at all and saying "this is it".
I think that, in the example of the angered driver, the anger arises from unconscious expectations, possibly arising from learned experiences in the illusion of social interactions. The anger arises in the unconscious and is presented into consciousness awareness. There doesn't have to be a meaning to it, it is an evolved response in a social species (possibly).
It's clear who is the intelligent thinker here with a consistent logic , and that is Sam . All Jim has is a concept that he only believes intellectually , he doesn't even deeply entrain with that viscerally himself. Plain old nihilism.
It is also known like THE VOID where ( at least in my “experience “ once) all is and is not
Here’s the problem….words are never it never….so as long as one is trying to find just the right words..your still stuck…
There's nothing more to know after this
i imagine jim in a judicial court pissing off the judge with every answer
There is a great article which, ultimately doesn’t answer what is pointed to here…..TomDas….who has all the editions of tony parsons open secret ….and the point he makes is that over the books various printings….tony begins to leave parts of the book out….parts that are vary much like some of the Hindu writings of long ago….it’s a nice read…
Timelessness
40:45 Poonjaji's maxim was "Keep quiet".
Just sounds like positive appraisal of a depersonalization disorder, and some lines of patter, monetized. Or just BS, monetized. It's hard to tell
Do you have a de-Santa-ization disorder?
@46:08 maybe what is timeless, unconditional, indescribable or cannot be put into words can be put into the words of time as follows:
This moment, whatever is happening is new and had already happened…
Next moment, whatever is happening is new and had already happened…
Keep on repeating these words endlessly in time.
I think the Immediacy of what is happening or appearing becomes obvious as it is always new, indescribable or in other words empty.
That maybe a description in time what Jim maybe is pointing at but as a separate individual we are unable to understand it and we argue and find faults with this description.
I think what is being pointed out is; that, psychological time is an illusion, but the chronological time is a reality.
"Just because there's a thought of a past doesn't means there's proof of a past"
HEAVEN ALREADY
The "me" hijacks consciousness as its own. How many teachers are in that place?
Just being a ‘teacher’ means they’re in that place. There is no teacher and nobody to teach. However, a teaching can appear in a way as using a thorn to remove a thorn- like the intellect bringing in a trojan horse which may resonate at a deeper level that has nothing to do with a ‘me’
Golden..
The thing about shame is that it's based on the group you identify with too and what they feel is shameful. It seems shame is to be concerned about the same things the group is so if you do something that goes to what seems to be a negative shame is bound to arise. The concerns of the group may be very legitimate too such as the effects of being ignorant about someone's levels of stress and causing them to have a breakdown. Surely feeling ashamed of some things is possible for anyone whether there's a self or not...I don't know...this is all very confusing.
"I have the experience of recognizing non duality", does that sound like non duality? Sounds pretty dual lol. You can't say shit about non duality.
Sam here actually has deeper realization and well read, newman still thinks anger can arise, lol!
Show something other than what is. Sam doesnt get it is what is
what is this 'What Is'? I hear terms such as energy...energy isn't nothing. Illusion refers to a mistaken identity so it alludes to the reality of something real that has been mistaken for something else. Where does the 'illusion' come from ? (oh, it just is) So Jim is an illusory body, there is no point of reference, there is only the wholeness of nothing, why not just sit down and die?
Not just Sam darling, no one does. There is no one and nothing to get.
@@Zee-pv3hn Like all religions, philosophies and spiritual teachings/messages this is just another concept which no doubt has some basis of truth. That it can't be understood by us isn't to say that there is nothing to understand, my dog would think that 'it is as it is' when it rains and there is nothing to understand about it, the 'mechanics' behind a storm remain hidden from him because understanding it isn't necessary for his survival.
When Tony Parsons tells of his spontaneous awakening in 'The Open Secret' one must ask, to whom or what was this awakening occurring? When he says it is freedom, freedom for whom or what? To say for nobody, it is just what is, is the same as a Christian saying, God did it. Tony speaks of 'boundless energy' well energy isn't nothing although it may be everything.
Sam is eloquent intelligent and verbose and asks pointless questions
This is not going to end well 🙄
to reincarnate or to not reincarnate that is the question.
Now I wonder, "how much atmospheric CO2 is emitted by average, or better than average seekers, globe trotting the earth chasing enlightenment?"
And, "how woke is that?"
Sam is aware of awareness, i get a feeling the guest does not want anyone elses ideas to be right. Its like he thinks he knows something that he calls nothing that nobody else knows. Always snaps quick to correct Sam geeeesh. These so called teachers should be able to speak like other humans and use human terms and not double talk to make it sound like you know something special.
It's actually the opposite. Jim is saying he doesn't know anything .. he's also not a teacher.
@@bluebird6966 But, that isn't the way he always behaves.
@@josshlegg8647 Its hard when you're dealing with language as it can seem contradictory. But ultimately Jim is pointing to Unknowing.
That's the illusion, Jim doesn't know anything. The process of knowing something suggests a Knower.
@@TomPrior16 Exactly 💯
The second coming of U.G. Krishnamurti...
Cannot explain it.
16:59 🙇🏾♂️
poor Sam
Only singular appearance
Jim is annoying AF, acts like everyone should just “realize” all these deep teachings just because he says so…
Sam is way out of his elements in this interview.
Sam is bo-rin-G…
I don’t know how Sam got through this conversation. Newman is so pretentious, so condescending, so utterly devoid of awareness that I couldn’t make it past the twenty minute mark.