Naas Botha was unbelievable. Have a look at his point scoring abilities. He even played for the Dallas Cowboys due to his amazing kicking abilities. When he stepped on a field the team he played against already had a deficit of 15 points!
Naas Botha would have been included if they could have found any footage of him actually playing rugby and not just kicking and avoiding being tackled.
@@rogerg.shannon3345 Negative Stuff like this because he most likely played your team into smithereens is the epitome of bias! At least try to be a bit objective and look at the stats...
He showed two of them on this list. Wilkinson and Porta. Hernandez could do it, too. Fly half isn’t all about drop goals. That said, it’s a weird list- Neil Jenkins is NOT one of the best 10s of all time!
I'm a Kiwi and missing Larkham easily owns a top spot, Spencer, or Mehrtens, or Fox well before Barrett who can't get a start, and South Africa had Morne Steyn who battles out and beat Carter on many an occasion.... I feel like you just did 10 great guys you could remember.
Fox was not that special to paraphrase Steve Hansen - he was always behind a Rolls Royce AB or Auckland pack - so had a lot of time for his kick game - Plus he had years to improve and craft his skills - Dan carter was good from the get go - There are no highlight reels of Fox's attacking flair , or his defending prowess - he won games of his in game line kicking and conversions - Dan Carter always worked to improve - his defending was the one with the most improvement . Truthly do you thing Fox would shine on a minor team ? - He had good passing ( see below ) Barrett was great in his peak years - still a better FB than his brother - both lack strategic skills - Last WC Barrett kicked away all attacking ball - seems never to learn - but he's not complete like DC - DC was in the top 10 for many of his skills - The best ever by far of going to the line and kicking through ( very rarely blocked kicks ) . BB has one other big flaw - ignoring the odd fancy pass - just basic passing skills - no better than an average flyhalf . That's why Mo'unga and Dmac need to be in ABs - as more crisp passing - the most vital skill in our time constrained modern game
@@nimblegoat Great points. BB was stellar in his peak years, where he played a quick link-up play, and then burned people with speed. There's plenty of highlight reel material with BB, unlike Fox, which is another point where I totally agree with you. Another flaw of BB is his unreliable penalty kicking. He can have a good game, and he can have a total stinker on the boot as well. DC slotted them like a clockwork, including some extremely challenging kick and outlandish techniques, which demonstrated his confidence. Spencer was an innovator, who deserves to be on that top 10 list above other players. Larkham is a glaring omission as well. I agree on the passing, and I'm warming up to the idea of Dmac at 10, he's been showing some high quality zippers this season. Top 10 without a single South African is absurd. You could make a solid case for Percy, Morne, or Handre. The latter two are habitual winners and notorious big game performers, who were absolutely instrumental in their team winning the ultimate trophies: Steyn a RWC, and two BIL series, Pollard a junior RWC, senior RWC, RWC bronze, and BIL tour trophy.
@@JTM1809 Yeah those Bokkies had great game control - The amazing thing about DC was his ability to work with anyone - Those Aussie Combos happened over many years - Simply annoys me Foster has squandered Mo'unga and Havili by playing them all wrong - ie giving them no space - and that silly dual playmaker crap - up there with Rest and rotation , super mensch ( 15% stronger than any other team ) , hit the man super plan- all this was entirely unnecessary by Henry - as we were the best team - TBF I've warmed to Henry as has got honest about his failings - Unlike Hansen who thinks his reign was just the greatest - which was on a down hill the moment Wayne Smith list - plus he had a super team 2015-2017- Henry swung hard other way from 2 number 11s to 2 number14s + 15 ( Not playing Howlett, Chris Jack and Aaron in that quarter was supreme arrogance ( Toeva was never a top tier 12-- just a skillful outside back )) - I thought Hansen was really good initially - middlepath , tweaking game half time etc - now think that was entirely Wayne Smith
Mark Ella was the greatest loss to international rugby. At 24 he captained Australia to a grand slam victory scoring a try in every test match . He then retired because he didn't see eye to eye with then coach Alan Jones while simply being unable to afford to continue play as an amateur. His performances against NZ in the late seventies and 80s woke NZ up to the forward dominated pedestrian style of back play it had adopted in the seventies. Dan Carter is quite rightfully the GOAT due to his all round game, career stats and longevity.
Greatest tragedy in Australian sports. If he couldn’t afford to play Union and didn’t like the coach. He’d have been the difference between the Balmain tigers being the greatest team to not win a premiership to being a great premiership team.
Yeah that Aussie backline were great to watch back then Mark Ella caused mayhem for the All Blacks. That Australian team were at the top of their game, awesome players
What about Naas Botha? If you think O'Gara and Porta were drop-kicking geniuses, you haven't seen this guy. He had a brilliant tactical and kicking game and lots of speed to burn. And along with Dan Carter, there were also Andrew Mehrtens or Grant Fox you could have added instead of Beauden Barret
@@thesollys9540 Correct. Fox had almost no running game. A shame the ABs selectors valued his accuracy over that of Frano Botica's (not quite so high accuracy, but a great running game).
thank goodness.... naas couldn't tackle nor break a defence. the only thing he broke was his ribs when he tried to tackle More Du Plessis. He was certainly not anywhere near an all round flyhalf. Thankfully his brand of rubgy is extinct now.
Naas Botha is greatest Springbok no 10’of all time. He is also considered one of the top 5 Springboks ever in South Africa, a rugby genius. I rate Naas and Dan Carter as the best two no 10’s of all time with johny wilkenson a distant third.
Naas was great but I do think Johnny was better, if not better had more opportunity to look better, But yip my three Barry Johnn, Naas, Johnny. Don't think you can select a number. Too many different styles, game situations
Complete rubbish, naas botha, never in the top 10, let alone better than Jonny, naas, was a terrible general and could not tackle to save his life. Many in SA did not like or rate him. Plus there's the small item he was banned as part of a racist banned team, from international rugby.
Best fly half ever was Naas Botha. South african greats use to say if you loose a match with Naas in your team you pick 14 other men. Many South african legends was out of international Rugby. Some of them was the best player we have ever seen before politics entered south africa. He was a kicking flyhalf. Killed you kicking and could drop from everywhere. He averaged propably 3- 6 drop goals in every match. A rughby genius.
Its obviously hard to narrow things down, and even harder to compare players from different eras but I think a top 10 list of #10s without a South African in it has some big holes. I think I see how you landed on the players you did - but focusing on total points in an era when there are so many more tests is for mine the wrong way to look at things. And then you have things like pre 80s it was pretty common for All Blacks Fullbacks to do the goal kicking which would necessarily preclude some of our guys from consideration. I'm a kiwi but i'm pretty surprised Naas Botha didn't get a mention, and mentioning Lynagh without noting Grant Fox is a bit of an omission too.
Yes, I'm not sure even Neil Jenkins' mum would consider him to be the greatest Welsh fly half ever, even if he was a great goalkicker and therefore could also cover fullback (?!?) There's surely no one right way to do this, but stacking up the numbers in a way that leans heavily on penalty kicking misses out so much.
Agree about the South Africans, Handre Pollard stands out, so does Naas Botha, way back when, he was a brilliant stylist of a style of play, as was their fly half when South Africa won the world cup for the first time. Like Grant Fox or Johnny Wilkinson, brilliant practitioners of a limited but highly successful way of playing.
So just to be clear here… Owen Farrell is on the list ahead of everyone you mentioned honourably? And some you missed like Henry Honibal, Joel Stransky, and Freddie Michalak… you must be part of the England selection team😂😂
It’s subjective, I’m guessing Farrell made the list because of his points tally, however if we remove him from the top 10 do you really think Stransky, Hannibal and Michalak are anywhere near the top 10..even top 20
Was there ever a better side stepping fly half than Phil Bennet. Some great fly halves here, I’m happy with Dan “the Man” Carter at no 1. I’m neither from Wales nor NZ.
Excellent Thanks for recalling Hugo Porta, regardless Pumas no winning any important tournament or been amongst the 8 best national teams in the world, in his time.
You missed Barry John, here. He didn't play for very long, but no-one played Rugby like Barry. When even the New Zealanders call you _The King,_ you know you're number one.
Frano Botica - the ABs selectors preferred Grant Fox because of his metronome-like accuracy - but Botica had an incredible running, passing and kicking game, and his accuracy was also pretty good (22 out of 24 kicks in his last NPC season for North Harbour).
No I dont believe Carter is the best by far, Wilkinson was an incredible flyhalve and if he was a NZer they would probably say he was as good as Carter.
@@dirkjordaan9044 DC is the best fly half by some distance. Guy had no flaw to his game at all, and was top or near top in every single aspect of the game. This is not taking anything from Wilkinson, who in my eyes is the clear #2 of all time. FTR, I'm not from NZ.
@@dirkjordaan9044….The 2005 BIL’s tour to NZ was the match up where we got see who was better, Carter or Wilkinson and it was Carter, by a clear margin. Wilkinson’s fuggin brilliant, absolute legend, both on and off the field but, Carter had him beat when they went head to head.
Stephen Larkham - WC winner & multiple trophy winner & easily in Top 5 best flyhalves Handre Pollard - WC winner & u19 WC winner Carlos Spencer - completely revolutionised the position! Jenkins and O'Gara ? Slotted penalties & kicked up and unders & kicked across the park..
@@abatesnz Carter came into the All Blacks in 2003, Mehrtens was still there, Spencer was still there until 2004. Spencer only scored 291 points in his AB's career. Mehrtens was 676 ahead of him a the end of his - with 967. And as for Carter, Spencer didn't delay him for long - by midway through his THIRD AB's season, 2005, he'd already supassed Spencer's total career points!! Even Cruden scored more points for the AB's - 322. Still think Spencer was the best thing since sliced bread?? Mehrtens should be there LONG before Spencer!!
@@allansbullet Carlos pretty much retired from the ABs after *that* pass. He was erratic and that's why he was kept out by Mehrtens. But his running game was sublime. Sliced bread? Never said that. Carter was, as I said. Read all 3 lines of my post.
After all these years politics still play a part in sport Naas Botha was and is the best flyhalf in the world And I don't want no arguments about this as we know with him in your team you already have 15 points on the board even before the game starts Thank you
As a kiwi I couldn't argue with your list apart from leaving Bernie Larkham out. He was a key reason for Australia's dominance in the late 90s and early 2000s. I would have ranked him at 4th behind Carter, Wilkinson and Beauden.
Sadly this is biased towards the more recent players as such, as per Stephen Larkin, it omits historical greats like Naas Boata, Mark Ella, Andrew Mertens, Phil Bennet, Bary John , to name but a few. A tad more research would make this more interesting
Ella is there. He absolutely shouldn't be, but that's a separate issue. Also, I would split this to pro era, and amateur era. I find it extremely hard to argue for any of the 1980's or older era players selection over today's above average fly half. Athletically, there's no comparison.
True I didn't finish watching and see Mark Ella, though I don't altogether agree about not being able to compare different eras, which we can and do across a lot of sports. Pele and Maradona, Donald Bradman, Jim Laker , training methods don't obscure talent over time. As far as rugby union goes, before Dan Carter, Grant Fox stood head and shoulders, being the on field brains off a nearly perfect , as far as results go, team that for a time and before professionalism was truly formidable. Similar many ways to O'Gara and Johnny Sexton.
As welshman we've had some outstanding 10's over the years. But when it comes to picking all timne greats i think dc is the first name on the list regardless of position.
Shocked not to see Larkham here - and near the top. He was easily the best 10 in the first half of his career and only surpassed after Carter started. He's definitely better than Wilkinson who only had a handful of years at his best - as well as most others on this list. Lynagh shouldn't really be mentioned in a top 10.
Stephan Larkham and Naas Botha should both be in your top 10. The fact you didn't even mention Botha speaks to your knowledge/credibility/bias. Botha/Carter vie for the GOAT. At least Hugo Porta and Mark Ella made your top 10. Along with Beauden, they'd be my top 5. The petulant, unsporting Farrell and O'Gara do not deserve to be anywhere near such a list. They're the antithesis of what rugby players should be.
Speaking of knowledge/credibility/bias, you just wrote there, that you wouldn't have Jonny Wilkinson in top 5. Wilkinson is clear cut #2 fly half of all time. It's DC at #1 with a healthy margin over #2 Wilkinson, then there's Mariana Trench, and then anyone else. I agree with you on Botha and Larkham, they should make the list, but Ella or Porta should be in HM at best. Farrell is controversial not so much on his skill, but on the fact he spent most of his international career playing at 12.
@@JTM1809Hey Sumo, Speaking of knowledge/credibility/bias, you just wrote there...? Yes, we all have our biases. You too. Of course you're welcome to your opinion. Even if you had to go hyperbolic to try and make it.😉But I'll stick with mine, if that's okay? 😉 It's understandable that these 3 players are not more widely appreciated. If Porta had played for one of the top tier nations they'd've made movies about him. Sadly for him, and all rugby lovers, playing for Argentina restricted his spotlight and international adulation, afforded stars of NZ, England etc. I also believe that had Ella played longer, he would've set many records and been more widely recognised. There's also no doubt that Botha was denied wider exposure because of South Africa's isolation. But he was a matchwinner of extraordinary ability. Wilkinson was a great player, no doubt about it. He also enjoyed unprecedented media recognition and promotion in his playing days, so will quite understandably be top of mind for many rugby fans. Both Ella and Porta were, in my opinion, far superior flyhalves to Jenkins, O'Gara, Sexton and Farrell, and with my biases, deserve way more than HM status. 🤓😉
Great content, good writing and footage. You should get a better microphone and sound editing, though. And also, 2018 was Ireland's third Grand Slam. An Irishman should know that, fella! From a fellow Irishman. All in all, good stuff.
Thanks, I meant Ireland's first ever 6 nations Grand Slam as opposed to the 5 nations ones they've had in the past but I cut the script down a bit forgetting it made the statement inaccurate. I've got a better microphone that's used in more recent videos
Naas Botha, Barry John, Phil Bennett, Ollie Campbell, Rob Andrew? If Jonathan Davies & Andrew Mehrtens had not had honourable mentions (which is a travesty) they would be there too...
Mark Ella was just raw talent and a beautiful player to watch he oozed classand tho I'm a dedicated all black supporter, he was the one I loved watching play
Speaking as a South African, this is a "kak" video! South Africa has been one of the best nations playing rugby, having given every other nation playing this game a bloody nose, sooner or later, sometimes many times. Given the significance of the position of fly half one would imagine that at least one would make the Top Ten. Sorry, I get it now, your fly halves could be so very bad because the rest of your teams were so very good! Sharpen your pencil, Relentless Rugby!
No list is ever going to make everyone happy. You could make a list of the top 10 000 fly halves and people will still complain. Top list overall. Most of these guys would make most teams starting 15. An honorable mention for me, that not even a lot of South Africans consider, is Henry Honiball. The guy made our backline flow like water. Didnt get along with Nick Mallet (the coach), and Mallet decided to drop him and end his career. For this reason I will forever have a burning hatred for Mallet. Honiball would have made most teams starting 15. The GOAT of SA Flyhalves is, of course, the great Naas.
Wow so many great players! Porta was a classic. As a Kiwi I liked Larkham as well, man he could send shivers down my spine watching him carve through a the All Blacks backline just like a Beef Boner dealing to a Large Steer at the Pukeuri Freezing Works just out of Oamaru, in New Zealand's Mainland. NZ's Largest Island, the South Island.
Well - easy unmentioned additions - and probably ahead of all, but the top two - Barry John, Phil Bennet, Grant Fox, Joel Stransky, Andrew Mehrtens Mehrtens Fox Lynagh Bennet Ella Porta Larkham Stransky Barry John Wilkinson Carter Ok that's 11!
Much better list... Glad Larkham is getting good shouts as he played a lot of fantastic rugby behind a weak pack... Id probably switch Jiffy in for Grant Fox and think Carlos Spencer deserves a mention
Wow, pretty controversial video. First off, I hate mixing amateur and professional era rugby. Two completely different sports. Nothing against the stars of the past, but the professional era players would eat their counterparts from the 80's and below for lunch. Second, some glaring omissions (Larkham, not a signle South African, even though a good case could be made for many: Steyn, Pollard, Montgomery from the top of my head, Spencer), some people who imho shouldn't make the top 10 at all (Ella, Porta). Pollard and Montgomery not even making the HM is shocking. O'Gara and Jenkins are on the margins imho, but I don't mind their inclusion as much as I do Ella's and Porta's. Hard to argue against players who scored over 1000 international points. Again, I can't wrap my head around the fact, that the HMs include some rather obscure names, like Juan Martin Hernadez, but don't include an absolute maverick like Finn Russell, or a career winner like Handre Pollard, who won both junior and senior RWC, has an additional bronze from the RWC and his side was not winning those trophies without him.
You clearly don't watch much rugby from the southern hemisphere so I can understand your bias but for your guidance, take a look at the country names on the world cup trophy and you would assume rugby is only played in the southern hemisphere.
Dan Carter was great and would even get the nod as inside centre too. The problem is that most of these players played behind absolute dominating packs. It is easy to break records when your team dominates. That is why someone like Barrett would not make the list for me as he is rubbish when he is under pressure, just like Spencer was. Porta played in a struggling team all his life and was a super star. I wonder what it would have looked like if he played behind a monster All Black of Springbok pack? He may have just broken all records as he was such a complete player. Some guys that I think could easily make the list, are Naas Botha, Barry John and Phil Bennett.
Beauden Barret played for the Hurricanes most of his career lol traditionally NZs weakest forward pack yet was always picked as AB incumbent. You never get picked as an AB 10 if you're rubbish. What's rubbish is your choice of first five eighths who couldn't tackle to save their lives, how is that not withstanding pressure?
@@michaelkonelio7452 Because he plays behind a massive pack. Only reason. Maybe this will solve it for you. In 2022 the All Black pack was less dominant. E=Why do you think Barrett lost his place to Maunga? Only because Maunga is much better under pressure. Barrett very much like King Carlos was. On the front foot they are extremely dangerous, so when the pack dominates, they really shine - and will get rewards. Once the pack struggles, their wheels come off. But we are digressing from my initial argument. We name great players because they play in great teams as the best in the world, only because they play in great teams. If they played for smaller countries, they would have disappeared - like many great players in small struggling countries. Take Rupeni Caucaunibuka (spelling?) He charged onto the scene after a world cup match where this extraordinary wing exploded onto the scene with a great try. After that he was contracted to play i Europe and we saw how good he is. Can you imagine how great he would have been behind an All Black pack?
@@hansielategan969 You're defeating your own point here. First off, every fly half plays worse behind a struggling pack. Some adjust their game better than others, but a pack struggling can't help the backs in any way. Look no further than 2015-2017 Melbourne Rebels. They had pretty much the entire Wallaby backline, but their forwards sucked, and they never got anywhere. It was fancy to watch, but no cigars at the end. Argentineans are notorious for their stupidly big forwards. Always have been, always will be. In the days of yore, Argentina could rely on their pack, and they were elite scrummagers before they were an overall elite team. It's only relatively recent (last decade or so) that their pack became less dominant.
Nice that Larkham got an honorable mention but ridiculous that the likes of Jenkins and O’Gara made the top 10 and he didn’t. Matt Giteau should get a look in somewhere.
I agree, that Larkham should be on that list. I disagree with the dissing of Jenkins and O'Gara, both of whom were great players. Jenkins was the first player to score 1000 international points, and he played in an era with way fewer international matches on schedule per year. And contrary to the stereotypes, he could run with the ball and was an excellent distributor with a very precise pass, thus having a complete game. A lot of SH fans soiling on him here clearly have no clue about how good he was. O'Gara was a brilliant tactician, and he too could take a wee dash with the ball.
Neil Jenkins in the top 10 greatest fly halves? Oh please. He was a kicker who could just about hold a place. He was even played at full back to keep him in the team. No Barry John? Makes it a pointless list really. I'm English and old enough to have seen John play. He was magical.
Disagree. Jenkins could run the ball, and he had an excellent pass. Not saying he was the best stepper, but "he was a kicker who could just about hold a place" is just simply not true. Also, comparing players across eras is absurd. Pro era players would eat their scrawny 80's and older era counterparts for lunch. Today's backs would physically dominate 1970's forwards.
Neil Jenkins was a good goal kicker granted but if you wanted a Welshman then Barry John would have been a better choice .Where is Grant Fox ,Andrew Mertens and Stephen Larkham. !
I presume you're not old enough to remember Barry John, Phil Bennett or Cliff Morgan from Wales or the incomparable Naas Botha from South Africa. Had SA not been banned from international competition then Botha would probably have been the highest test scorer of all time.
Mark Ella, Jonathan Davies and Hugo Porta are the top 3.....in that order! All three had that indefinable quality of unpredictability, without being mistake prone. Dan Carter and Barry John (the king in NZ) round out the top 5, though the ghostly Stephen Larkham makes it a top 6 for mine. Lescaboura, who scared the tits off my AB's back in the mid 80's, Botha (underrated footballer and along with Fox the only guy I'd want kicking to save my life!), Wilkinson (At least one of the two or three top generals), Bennett, Lynagh and Fox (a thoroughly unimaginative player but possibly the best general behind a dominant forward pack) round out my top 12.
Nothing in tbe rules book says goal kicking is the sole job of the Fly-Half. It should be considered separate when weighing up who is the best Fly-Halfs. Putting Neil Jenkins ahead of Stephen Larkham is a sick joke.
Ever heard of Naas Botha? He was South Africa's best flyhalf by a long shot! Not even mentioned, because he played from 1979 to 1992 during the boycott years! He didn't play lots of tests because of the boycotts, but his points average per game is right at the top, if not the best? I think it is only topped by Johnny W. When at his best and not yet over 35, he only played for SA, the Springboks, against the All Blacks in the 1981 riot toor to New Zeeland, where SA was under extraordinary pressure and should have won that toor if it wasn't for extremely bad refereeing due to the anti-SA lobby!!! His percentage of successful drop goals is unmatched, as is his percentage of games won where he played as flyhalf! He simply was a game winning flyhalf untouched by anyone else in the history of this game. I think you have some homework to do my friend...
No Larkham until honourable mention. That’s pretty much unforgivable.
Larkham was a great player and would be in my top 3
Larkham was the greatest running flyhalf I’ve seen. Some better kickers and ball players but he was lethal with the ball in hand.
Larkham right up there, Fox and Botha not even mentioned
Yep, even as a one-eyed All Black fan, i would have had Larkham at #2 behind Carter.
Stephen Larkham,no South African,Merthens,Mathew Burke,French.Goodness
Shocking list . Having Jenkins o gara and Farrell and Barrett no Larkham Spencer or Botha😂😂 madness
Chill out; it’s just one guy’s opinion
@@wlk2408 please look at the criteria "longevity, peak ability, all round performance and trophies won" - Naas shouldn't anywhere near
!
Agreed. Terrible list.
Agree, but then it's compiled by a biased NH individual, and how many world cups has the NH won???..🦻
Neil Jenkins is behind Barry John, Phil Bennett and Johnathan Davies at 10 out of welsh 10’s for me.
Barry John & Phil Bennett (and I'm not welsh). You need more than just being able to kick pens & convs to make a top ten list.
I'm not having any list without Phil Bennett on it, but I admit he isn't an automatic. Barry John not being on the list is just ignorance.
You cant take this list seriously if you have Neil Jenkins ahead of Barry John!!!!!!!
You have Owen Farrel on her but not Handre Pollard, Morne Steyn, Carlos Spensor or Andrew Merthens
😯
Owen Farrell has 2 nominations for world player of the year whereas Pollard and Steyn have none
@Joe Todd ill take a world cup over two nominations.
@@marlinwilliams73 If England won the 2019 world cup final you'd be calling Farrell a better player than Pollard then ?
@Joe Todd theres no ifs in facts. Pollard is more clutch than farrell. In both world cup years, pollard was better. That has to count for something.
Shocker….
Naas Botha was unbelievable. Have a look at his point scoring abilities. He even played for the Dallas Cowboys due to his amazing kicking abilities. When he stepped on a field the team he played against already had a deficit of 15 points!
Naas Botha would have been included if they could have found any footage of him actually playing rugby and not just kicking and avoiding being tackled.
@@rogerg.shannon3345 Negative Stuff like this because he most likely played your team into smithereens is the epitome of bias! At least try to be a bit objective and look at the stats...
Barry John was the greatest of all time destroyed NZ in 71 who had never lost a home series or did rugby not count untill the professional era?
Naas Botha could drop with both feet to the posts. I'm not aware of any other flyhalf that had this ability.
He showed two of them on this list. Wilkinson and Porta. Hernandez could do it, too. Fly half isn’t all about drop goals. That said, it’s a weird list- Neil
Jenkins is NOT one of the best 10s of all time!
@@tomfabozzi5353 neither is Farrell
@@tomfabozzi5353 Danial Carter could drop off both feet too
Carter could
DC has a 100% record with his right boot,even though,we all know, he's a lefty,ok he only kick three,1 penalty ,and 2field goal's 😅
Thank you for acknowledging the brilliance of Hugo Porta
I agree 💯
Stephen Larkham for Aus was awesome great all round skill and vision!
But he didn't even get a hall of fame place so hard to place him here
I'm a Kiwi and missing Larkham easily owns a top spot, Spencer, or Mehrtens, or Fox well before Barrett who can't get a start, and South Africa had Morne Steyn who battles out and beat Carter on many an occasion.... I feel like you just did 10 great guys you could remember.
Absolutely mate Mehrtens, spencer , fox along with Steven should be in
@@mauricemunoz242 beaver
Fox was not that special to paraphrase Steve Hansen - he was always behind a Rolls Royce AB or Auckland pack - so had a lot of time for his kick game - Plus he had years to improve and craft his skills - Dan carter was good from the get go - There are no highlight reels of Fox's attacking flair , or his defending prowess - he won games of his in game line kicking and conversions - Dan Carter always worked to improve - his defending was the one with the most improvement . Truthly do you thing Fox would shine on a minor team ? - He had good passing ( see below )
Barrett was great in his peak years - still a better FB than his brother - both lack strategic skills - Last WC Barrett kicked away all attacking ball - seems never to learn - but he's not complete like DC - DC was in the top 10 for many of his skills - The best ever by far of going to the line and kicking through ( very rarely blocked kicks ) .
BB has one other big flaw - ignoring the odd fancy pass - just basic passing skills - no better than an average flyhalf .
That's why Mo'unga and Dmac need to be in ABs - as more crisp passing - the most vital skill in our time constrained modern game
@@nimblegoat Great points. BB was stellar in his peak years, where he played a quick link-up play, and then burned people with speed. There's plenty of highlight reel material with BB, unlike Fox, which is another point where I totally agree with you. Another flaw of BB is his unreliable penalty kicking. He can have a good game, and he can have a total stinker on the boot as well. DC slotted them like a clockwork, including some extremely challenging kick and outlandish techniques, which demonstrated his confidence.
Spencer was an innovator, who deserves to be on that top 10 list above other players. Larkham is a glaring omission as well.
I agree on the passing, and I'm warming up to the idea of Dmac at 10, he's been showing some high quality zippers this season.
Top 10 without a single South African is absurd. You could make a solid case for Percy, Morne, or Handre. The latter two are habitual winners and notorious big game performers, who were absolutely instrumental in their team winning the ultimate trophies: Steyn a RWC, and two BIL series, Pollard a junior RWC, senior RWC, RWC bronze, and BIL tour trophy.
@@JTM1809 Yeah those Bokkies had great game control - The amazing thing about DC was his ability to work with anyone - Those Aussie Combos happened over many years - Simply annoys me Foster has squandered Mo'unga and Havili by playing them all wrong - ie giving them no space - and that silly dual playmaker crap - up there with Rest and rotation , super mensch ( 15% stronger than any other team ) , hit the man super plan- all this was entirely unnecessary by Henry - as we were the best team - TBF I've warmed to Henry as has got honest about his failings - Unlike Hansen who thinks his reign was just the greatest - which was on a down hill the moment Wayne Smith list - plus he had a super team 2015-2017- Henry swung hard other way from 2 number 11s to 2 number14s + 15 ( Not playing Howlett, Chris Jack and Aaron in that quarter was supreme arrogance ( Toeva was never a top tier 12-- just a skillful outside back )) - I thought Hansen was really good initially - middlepath , tweaking game half time etc - now think that was entirely Wayne Smith
Mark Ella was the greatest loss to international rugby. At 24 he captained Australia to a grand slam victory scoring a try in every test match . He then retired because he didn't see eye to eye with then coach Alan Jones while simply being unable to afford to continue play as an amateur. His performances against NZ in the late seventies and 80s woke NZ up to the forward dominated pedestrian style of back play it had adopted in the seventies.
Dan Carter is quite rightfully the GOAT due to his all round game, career stats and longevity.
Greatest tragedy in Australian sports. If he couldn’t afford to play Union and didn’t like the coach. He’d have been the difference between the Balmain tigers being the greatest team to not win a premiership to being a great premiership team.
Barry John...
Yeah that Aussie backline were great to watch back then Mark Ella caused mayhem for the All Blacks. That Australian team were at the top of their game, awesome players
Agree *Mark Ella* was a *genius* with ball in hand
From *NZL*
What about Naas Botha? If you think O'Gara and Porta were drop-kicking geniuses, you haven't seen this guy. He had a brilliant tactical and kicking game and lots of speed to burn. And along with Dan Carter, there were also Andrew Mehrtens or Grant Fox you could have added instead of Beauden Barret
Meh, Barrett is a much better player than either, BB much better attacker by country mile
@@thesollys9540 Correct. Fox had almost no running game. A shame the ABs selectors valued his accuracy over that of Frano Botica's (not quite so high accuracy, but a great running game).
The world missed out on a guy called Naas Botha due to SA isolation
thank goodness.... naas couldn't tackle nor break a defence. the only thing he broke was his ribs when he tried to tackle More Du Plessis. He was certainly not anywhere near an all round flyhalf. Thankfully his brand of rubgy is extinct now.
Naas Botha is greatest Springbok no 10’of all time. He is also considered one of the top 5 Springboks ever in South Africa, a rugby genius. I rate Naas and Dan Carter as the best two no 10’s of all time with johny wilkenson a distant third.
Naas was great but I do think Johnny was better, if not better had more opportunity to look better, But yip my three Barry Johnn, Naas, Johnny. Don't think you can select a number. Too many different styles, game situations
Complete rubbish, naas botha, never in the top 10, let alone better than Jonny, naas, was a terrible general and could not tackle to save his life. Many in SA did not like or rate him. Plus there's the small item he was banned as part of a racist banned team, from international rugby.
Best fly half ever was Naas Botha. South african greats use to say if you loose a match with Naas in your team you pick 14 other men. Many South african legends was out of international Rugby. Some of them was the best player we have ever seen before politics entered south africa. He was a kicking flyhalf. Killed you kicking and could drop from everywhere. He averaged propably 3- 6 drop goals in every match. A rughby genius.
Its obviously hard to narrow things down, and even harder to compare players from different eras but I think a top 10 list of #10s without a South African in it has some big holes.
I think I see how you landed on the players you did - but focusing on total points in an era when there are so many more tests is for mine the wrong way to look at things. And then you have things like pre 80s it was pretty common for All Blacks Fullbacks to do the goal kicking which would necessarily preclude some of our guys from consideration.
I'm a kiwi but i'm pretty surprised Naas Botha didn't get a mention, and mentioning Lynagh without noting Grant Fox is a bit of an omission too.
Great points.
👍🏼
Yes, I'm not sure even Neil Jenkins' mum would consider him to be the greatest Welsh fly half ever, even if he was a great goalkicker and therefore could also cover fullback (?!?)
There's surely no one right way to do this, but stacking up the numbers in a way that leans heavily on penalty kicking misses out so much.
Agree about the South Africans, Handre Pollard stands out, so does Naas Botha, way back when, he was a brilliant stylist of a style of play, as was their fly half when South Africa won the world cup for the first time. Like Grant Fox or Johnny Wilkinson, brilliant practitioners of a limited but highly successful way of playing.
@@murraywalker540 Wilkinson was a lot less limited than you appear to suggest.
True to a degree only on that England's style of play though highly successful was based on a formula, Wilkins style fell in with it.
How on EARTH is farrell on this list given his conversion rate? 🤦♂️🤦♂️l😂
Excellent statistics and commentary plus great choice of highlights ….
Possibly the best rugby video I’ve ever seen
Morne Steyn, won Super Rugby titles, and has put over 30 points against NZ in a single match and had important kicks to beat the Lions 12 years apart.
So just to be clear here… Owen Farrell is on the list ahead of everyone you mentioned honourably? And some you missed like Henry Honibal, Joel Stransky, and Freddie Michalak… you must be part of the England selection team😂😂
It’s subjective, I’m guessing Farrell made the list because of his points tally, however if we remove him from the top 10 do you really think Stransky, Hannibal and Michalak are anywhere near the top 10..even top 20
Was there ever a better side stepping fly half than Phil Bennet. Some great fly halves here, I’m happy with Dan “the Man” Carter at no 1. I’m neither from Wales nor NZ.
Phil looked like he had drunk six pints before every match!
Excellent
Thanks for recalling Hugo Porta, regardless Pumas no winning any important tournament or been amongst the 8 best national teams in the world, in his time.
You did a very accurate analysis of the skills and choosing amazing players. Thanks
You missed Barry John, here.
He didn't play for very long, but no-one played Rugby like Barry.
When even the New Zealanders call you _The King,_ you know you're number one.
They broke the mould, of solid gold, that once made Barry John.
One day I hope Romain NTamack will make his way into this glorious list.
He was crazy fan of Dan Carter (obviously)😊
Frano Botica - the ABs selectors preferred Grant Fox because of his metronome-like accuracy - but Botica had an incredible running, passing and kicking game, and his accuracy was also pretty good (22 out of 24 kicks in his last NPC season for North Harbour).
Phil Bennet and Barry John don't make the cut, mate you are playing with yourself!
Carter is the best ever by some margin, but not including Larkham is a crime! He's top 5 minimum!
Castaignède deserved a mention.
Owen Farrell should be knocked off this list for him
No I dont believe Carter is the best by far, Wilkinson was an incredible flyhalve and if he was a NZer they would probably say he was as good as Carter.
@@dirkjordaan9044 If... that's a massive hypothetical, when in real life, Carter WAS a NZer and better than Wilkinson.
@@dirkjordaan9044 DC is the best fly half by some distance. Guy had no flaw to his game at all, and was top or near top in every single aspect of the game. This is not taking anything from Wilkinson, who in my eyes is the clear #2 of all time.
FTR, I'm not from NZ.
@@dirkjordaan9044….The 2005 BIL’s tour to NZ was the match up where we got see who was better, Carter or Wilkinson and it was Carter, by a clear margin. Wilkinson’s fuggin brilliant, absolute legend, both on and off the field but, Carter had him beat when they went head to head.
Stephen Larkham - WC winner & multiple trophy winner & easily in Top 5 best flyhalves
Handre Pollard - WC winner & u19 WC winner
Carlos Spencer - completely revolutionised the position!
Jenkins and O'Gara ? Slotted penalties & kicked up and unders & kicked across the park..
Agree fully...
Carlos Spencer certainly revolutionised the position - he showed everyone how to run sideways like a headless chook!
@@allansbullet He kept Dan Carter out of the ABs 10 spot (until he through *that* pass to Mortlock).
'Nuff said.
DC did go on to surpass him though.
@@abatesnz Carter came into the All Blacks in 2003, Mehrtens was still there, Spencer was still there until 2004. Spencer only scored 291 points in his AB's career. Mehrtens was 676 ahead of him a the end of his - with 967. And as for Carter, Spencer didn't delay him for long - by midway through his THIRD AB's season, 2005, he'd already supassed Spencer's total career points!! Even Cruden scored more points for the AB's - 322. Still think Spencer was the best thing since sliced bread?? Mehrtens should be there LONG before Spencer!!
@@allansbullet Carlos pretty much retired from the ABs after *that* pass. He was erratic and that's why he was kept out by Mehrtens. But his running game was sublime.
Sliced bread? Never said that. Carter was, as I said. Read all 3 lines of my post.
Goodness...Naas Botha doesn't even rate an honourable mention....that's a bold call....
Naas was only a kicker, no attacker or defender. Pollard far more a better flyhalf than Naas
You obviously haven't watched much footage of Naas. He was a great attacking flyhalf
Owen Farrell is better than Barry John and Phil Bennett? I'm not even Welsh and that offends me.
It's a great and well considered list bt there are two Welsh 10s who need considering; Barry John and Phil Bennett.
Naas Botha? He defined what a flyhalf is supposed to be...
Played in amateur times against plumbers & car mechanics
After all these years politics still play a part in sport Naas Botha was and is the best flyhalf in the world And I don't want no arguments about this as we know with him in your team you already have 15 points on the board even before the game starts Thank you
As an South African,,I would rank Dan Carter as the greatest flyhalf in history,,#You go All Blacks 🎉🎉🎉
As a kiwi I couldn't argue with your list apart from leaving Bernie Larkham out. He was a key reason for Australia's dominance in the late 90s and early 2000s. I would have ranked him at 4th behind Carter, Wilkinson and Beauden.
Have to agree look into Naas Botha.
No mention of Naas Botha...🤮🤮🤮🤑
Neil Jenkins ahead of Phil Bennett and Barry John?
And Jonathan Davies?
Barry John is top 5 at least
Kiwi AB fan
Sadly this is biased towards the more recent players as such, as per Stephen Larkin, it omits historical greats like Naas Boata, Mark Ella, Andrew Mertens, Phil Bennet, Bary John , to name but a few. A tad more research would make this more interesting
Mark Ella features at #6 mate
Ella is there. He absolutely shouldn't be, but that's a separate issue.
Also, I would split this to pro era, and amateur era. I find it extremely hard to argue for any of the 1980's or older era players selection over today's above average fly half. Athletically, there's no comparison.
True I didn't finish watching and see Mark Ella, though I don't altogether agree about not being able to compare different eras, which we can and do across a lot of sports. Pele and Maradona, Donald Bradman, Jim Laker , training methods don't obscure talent over time. As far as rugby union goes, before Dan Carter, Grant Fox stood head and shoulders, being the on field brains off a nearly perfect , as far as results go, team that for a time and before professionalism was truly formidable. Similar many ways to O'Gara and Johnny Sexton.
As welshman we've had some outstanding 10's over the years. But when it comes to picking all timne greats i think dc is the first name on the list regardless of position.
Shocked not to see Larkham here - and near the top. He was easily the best 10 in the first half of his career and only surpassed after Carter started. He's definitely better than Wilkinson who only had a handful of years at his best - as well as most others on this list. Lynagh shouldn't really be mentioned in a top 10.
Naas Botha, obviously. But no complaints about Carter topping the list.
1# CARTER
2# WILKINSON (3)
3# LARKHAM (2)
Stephan Larkham and Naas Botha should both be in your top 10. The fact you didn't even mention Botha speaks to your knowledge/credibility/bias. Botha/Carter vie for the GOAT. At least Hugo Porta and Mark Ella made your top 10. Along with Beauden, they'd be my top 5.
The petulant, unsporting Farrell and O'Gara do not deserve to be anywhere near such a list. They're the antithesis of what rugby players should be.
Speaking of knowledge/credibility/bias, you just wrote there, that you wouldn't have Jonny Wilkinson in top 5. Wilkinson is clear cut #2 fly half of all time. It's DC at #1 with a healthy margin over #2 Wilkinson, then there's Mariana Trench, and then anyone else.
I agree with you on Botha and Larkham, they should make the list, but Ella or Porta should be in HM at best.
Farrell is controversial not so much on his skill, but on the fact he spent most of his international career playing at 12.
@@JTM1809Hey Sumo, Speaking of knowledge/credibility/bias, you just wrote there...?
Yes, we all have our biases. You too.
Of course you're welcome to your opinion. Even if you had to go hyperbolic to try and make it.😉But I'll stick with mine, if that's okay? 😉
It's understandable that these 3 players are not more widely appreciated.
If Porta had played for one of the top tier nations they'd've made movies about him. Sadly for him, and all rugby lovers, playing for Argentina restricted his spotlight and international adulation, afforded stars of NZ, England etc.
I also believe that had Ella played longer, he would've set many records and been more widely recognised.
There's also no doubt that Botha was denied wider exposure because of South Africa's isolation. But he was a matchwinner of extraordinary ability.
Wilkinson was a great player, no doubt about it. He also enjoyed unprecedented media recognition and promotion in his playing days, so will quite understandably be top of mind for many rugby fans.
Both Ella and Porta were, in my opinion, far superior flyhalves to Jenkins, O'Gara, Sexton and Farrell, and with my biases, deserve way more than HM status. 🤓😉
Great content, good writing and footage. You should get a better microphone and sound editing, though. And also, 2018 was Ireland's third Grand Slam. An Irishman should know that, fella! From a fellow Irishman. All in all, good stuff.
Thanks, I meant Ireland's first ever 6 nations Grand Slam as opposed to the 5 nations ones they've had in the past but I cut the script down a bit forgetting it made the statement inaccurate.
I've got a better microphone that's used in more recent videos
@Relentless Rugby fair play, mate. Minor criticisms and all that. Great work, all in all. See ya in a couple of pubs round Dublin maybe.
Dan Carter the GREATEST
Naas Botha
Where is Naas Botha and Larkham? Many others missing too. List is shocking.
Sorry, Super Rugby teams like the Hurricanes are not club rugby. 'Below' are province (like county) and then club.
Phil Bennett should be in there. And many say Barry John. I’m not Welsh, but they certainly set the heart racing!
No Barry John or Phill Bennet,not a complete list then!
Excellent list.
Ella, Jenkins or O'Gara over Merterns??? And where's Grant Fox in the honorable mentions???
Ella yes. The rest no.
Where the hell is Barry John ? Phil Bennet ?
No Phil Bennet, Barry John nor Naas Botha ? WTF
Correct! Bennet too fat and lumbering!
Are you serious, The Springboks, the three times rugby world champs have no best flyhalf in your top 10? .
Naas Botha should be on the list
Naas Botha, Barry John, Phil Bennett, Ollie Campbell, Rob Andrew?
If Jonathan Davies & Andrew Mehrtens had not had honourable mentions (which is a travesty) they would be there too...
Rob Andrew? OMG! And Davies can't stop whining that the Welsh were cheated!
No phil Bennett or Barry John wow
Mark Ella was just raw talent and a beautiful player to watch he oozed classand tho I'm a dedicated all black supporter, he was the one I loved watching play
Speaking as a South African, this is a "kak" video! South Africa has been one of the best nations playing rugby, having given every other nation playing this game a bloody nose, sooner or later, sometimes many times. Given the significance of the position of fly half one would imagine that at least one would make the Top Ten. Sorry, I get it now, your fly halves could be so very bad because the rest of your teams were so very good! Sharpen your pencil, Relentless Rugby!
No list is ever going to make everyone happy. You could make a list of the top 10 000 fly halves and people will still complain. Top list overall. Most of these guys would make most teams starting 15.
An honorable mention for me, that not even a lot of South Africans consider, is Henry Honiball.
The guy made our backline flow like water. Didnt get along with Nick Mallet (the coach), and Mallet decided to drop him and end his career. For this reason I will forever have a burning hatred for Mallet. Honiball would have made most teams starting 15. The GOAT of SA Flyhalves is, of course, the great Naas.
Any top 10 that doesn`t include Barry John and Phil Bennett is invalid
No french fly half? Dupont is already one of the greatest in history, Galthié won the ww player of the year award, …
Wow so many great players! Porta was a classic. As a Kiwi I liked Larkham as well, man he could send shivers down my spine watching him carve through a the All Blacks backline just like a Beef Boner dealing to a Large Steer at the Pukeuri Freezing Works just out of Oamaru, in New Zealand's Mainland. NZ's Largest Island, the South Island.
Unnecessarily lengthy descriptions…. are fuggin gold.
Nonsense comment. matey!
Owen Farrell over Merhtans, Pollard, Larkham, Mounga, Steyn? You must be trolling right??
Well - easy unmentioned additions - and probably ahead of all, but the top two - Barry John, Phil Bennet, Grant Fox, Joel Stransky, Andrew Mehrtens
Mehrtens
Fox
Lynagh
Bennet
Ella
Porta
Larkham
Stransky
Barry John
Wilkinson
Carter
Ok that's 11!
Much better list... Glad Larkham is getting good shouts as he played a lot of fantastic rugby behind a weak pack... Id probably switch Jiffy in for Grant Fox and think Carlos Spencer deserves a mention
Wow, pretty controversial video.
First off, I hate mixing amateur and professional era rugby. Two completely different sports. Nothing against the stars of the past, but the professional era players would eat their counterparts from the 80's and below for lunch.
Second, some glaring omissions (Larkham, not a signle South African, even though a good case could be made for many: Steyn, Pollard, Montgomery from the top of my head, Spencer), some people who imho shouldn't make the top 10 at all (Ella, Porta). Pollard and Montgomery not even making the HM is shocking. O'Gara and Jenkins are on the margins imho, but I don't mind their inclusion as much as I do Ella's and Porta's. Hard to argue against players who scored over 1000 international points.
Again, I can't wrap my head around the fact, that the HMs include some rather obscure names, like Juan Martin Hernadez, but don't include an absolute maverick like Finn Russell, or a career winner like Handre Pollard, who won both junior and senior RWC, has an additional bronze from the RWC and his side was not winning those trophies without him.
You clearly don't watch much rugby from the southern hemisphere so I can understand your bias but for your guidance, take a look at the country names on the world cup trophy and you would assume rugby is only played in the southern hemisphere.
Dan Carter was great and would even get the nod as inside centre too. The problem is that most of these players played behind absolute dominating packs. It is easy to break records when your team dominates. That is why someone like Barrett would not make the list for me as he is rubbish when he is under pressure, just like Spencer was. Porta played in a struggling team all his life and was a super star. I wonder what it would have looked like if he played behind a monster All Black of Springbok pack? He may have just broken all records as he was such a complete player. Some guys that I think could easily make the list, are Naas Botha, Barry John and Phil Bennett.
Beauden Barret played for the Hurricanes most of his career lol traditionally NZs weakest forward pack yet was always picked as AB incumbent. You never get picked as an AB 10 if you're rubbish.
What's rubbish is your choice of first five eighths who couldn't tackle to save their lives, how is that not withstanding pressure?
Rubbish but won the world player of the year twice 🤣
@@michaelkonelio7452 Because he plays behind a massive pack. Only reason.
Maybe this will solve it for you. In 2022 the All Black pack was less dominant. E=Why do you think Barrett lost his place to Maunga? Only because Maunga is much better under pressure.
Barrett very much like King Carlos was. On the front foot they are extremely dangerous, so when the pack dominates, they really shine - and will get rewards. Once the pack struggles, their wheels come off. But we are digressing from my initial argument. We name great players because they play in great teams as the best in the world, only because they play in great teams. If they played for smaller countries, they would have disappeared - like many great players in small struggling countries.
Take Rupeni Caucaunibuka (spelling?) He charged onto the scene after a world cup match where this extraordinary wing exploded onto the scene with a great try. After that he was contracted to play i Europe and we saw how good he is. Can you imagine how great he would have been behind an All Black pack?
@@hansielategan969 You're defeating your own point here. First off, every fly half plays worse behind a struggling pack. Some adjust their game better than others, but a pack struggling can't help the backs in any way. Look no further than 2015-2017 Melbourne Rebels. They had pretty much the entire Wallaby backline, but their forwards sucked, and they never got anywhere. It was fancy to watch, but no cigars at the end.
Argentineans are notorious for their stupidly big forwards. Always have been, always will be. In the days of yore, Argentina could rely on their pack, and they were elite scrummagers before they were an overall elite team. It's only relatively recent (last decade or so) that their pack became less dominant.
Cliff Morgan? Barry John? Phil Bennett?
Where is Barry John & Phil Bennett
Nice that Larkham got an honorable mention but ridiculous that the likes of Jenkins and O’Gara made the top 10 and he didn’t. Matt Giteau should get a look in somewhere.
I agree, that Larkham should be on that list. I disagree with the dissing of Jenkins and O'Gara, both of whom were great players. Jenkins was the first player to score 1000 international points, and he played in an era with way fewer international matches on schedule per year. And contrary to the stereotypes, he could run with the ball and was an excellent distributor with a very precise pass, thus having a complete game. A lot of SH fans soiling on him here clearly have no clue about how good he was. O'Gara was a brilliant tactician, and he too could take a wee dash with the ball.
1/ Carter
2/Daylight
3/The rest....
Neil Jenkins in the top 10 greatest fly halves? Oh please. He was a kicker who could just about hold a place. He was even played at full back to keep him in the team.
No Barry John? Makes it a pointless list really. I'm English and old enough to have seen John play. He was magical.
Disagree. Jenkins could run the ball, and he had an excellent pass. Not saying he was the best stepper, but "he was a kicker who could just about hold a place" is just simply not true.
Also, comparing players across eras is absurd. Pro era players would eat their scrawny 80's and older era counterparts for lunch. Today's backs would physically dominate 1970's forwards.
You are way of with top 10 .
I would agree with mabey 4 of the 10 .
Grant Fox was the best tactician, Phil Bennet had the most flair, Wilkinson to play for my life and Mehrtens just the best behind a good pack.
Neil Jenkins was a good goal kicker granted but if you wanted a Welshman then Barry John would have been a better choice .Where is Grant Fox ,Andrew Mertens and Stephen Larkham. !
Clearly a casual new fan who has no clue of southern hemisphere rugby .
NO Barry John, come on!!!
Mike Gibson and Jack kyle both deserve a mention.
Naas Botha. One of the best international records in a career shortened by politics. Phil Bennett.
To leave Naas Botha off this list is a joke.
Probably could've lost an Irishman or a Welshman and added a South African and Stephan Larkham in the top 5...
Ella Bennett and Tony Ward
Grant Fox
Naas Botha
Morne Steyn
All match winners
*not the greatest defenders
I presume you're not old enough to remember Barry John, Phil Bennett or Cliff Morgan from Wales or the incomparable Naas Botha from South Africa. Had SA not been banned from international competition then Botha would probably have been the highest test scorer of all time.
Mark Ella, Jonathan Davies and Hugo Porta are the top 3.....in that order! All three had that indefinable quality of unpredictability, without being mistake prone.
Dan Carter and Barry John (the king in NZ) round out the top 5, though the ghostly Stephen Larkham makes it a top 6 for mine.
Lescaboura, who scared the tits off my AB's back in the mid 80's, Botha (underrated footballer and along with Fox the only guy I'd want kicking to save my life!), Wilkinson (At least one of the two or three top generals), Bennett, Lynagh and Fox (a thoroughly unimaginative player but possibly the best general behind a dominant forward pack) round out my top 12.
Carter at 1 -and by some distance.Ella wasn't around long enough to be in the top 3.And Porta,at best makes the top 10.
lol, DC at #4....you have no idea champ
Agree with Carter at 1. There's no contest. But not even a honourable mention for Naas Botha?! Geez
Botha spent his entire career kicking the ball away
Botha played for an Apartheid team! Get it?
Ten greatest ourselves but no Barry john,Phil Bennett,Naas Botha, or cliff Morgan.
Talk about missing the greatest ever by a country mile
Larkham should be AT LEAST in top 3...
Handré Pollard’s role in RWC 2019?
No NAAS BOTHA... a demi god of kicking in SA that didn't shine due sport isolation and sanctions. Also featured 4 Dallas Cowboys in US.
Nothing in tbe rules book says goal kicking is the sole job of the Fly-Half. It should be considered separate when weighing up who is the best Fly-Halfs.
Putting Neil Jenkins ahead of Stephen Larkham is a sick joke.
Barry John
Ying Chow Soo, Vinny Jones and George Best--left out? Scandalous!
Good list
from a springbok no larkham and carloss spencer in there is unforgiven but farrell is there he could never do things those 2 was capable of
Ever heard of Naas Botha?
He was South Africa's best flyhalf by a long shot! Not even mentioned, because he played from 1979 to 1992 during the boycott years!
He didn't play lots of tests because of the boycotts, but his points average per game is right at the top, if not the best? I think it is only topped by Johnny W. When at his best and not yet over 35, he only played for SA, the Springboks, against the All Blacks in the 1981 riot toor to New Zeeland, where SA was under extraordinary pressure and should have won that toor if it wasn't for extremely bad refereeing due to the anti-SA lobby!!!
His percentage of successful drop goals is unmatched, as is his percentage of games won where he played as flyhalf! He simply was a game winning flyhalf untouched by anyone else in the history of this game.
I think you have some homework to do my friend...