@Howard Pearcey - I dont know. Sometimes, sacrificing a set of enchanted items is the perfect way to get rid of an assailant. It's expensive, but it can be the difference between life and death.
After some time in the infantry, and going to Afghanistan, I can visualize this all too well. That, and being in the Canadian infantry has given the added perspective of trying to do it all in deep snow come winter. Layering and armour work against each other. Something people don't think about is weather changes. I have been out on military exercise that included extremely hot sun, rain, and snow. Trying to carry all of the food, bedding, etc with you, as well as your weapon, and having the ability to dress up/dress down for the weather takes a lot of space. When working dismounted we didn't exactly have a horse to carry stuff, which I think is another point, not everyone had a horse back then. A lot of poor sods had to just carry their stuff. Even with a back pack, if you get in a fight, likely you are not going to drop it, you will have to fight with it on, because A: it takes time to take it off unless you have modern quick release straps B: if you have to retreat, and you took it off, you just lost your stuff, and you now die tonight from exposure because you have no bedding, campfire kit, or food. Axes were also quite popular, depending on the area and period as they were cheaper to make, also they double as a tool to help set up camp. When hiking or soldiering it is key to have as much of your stuff multipurpose as possible (eg new Canadian bayonet is also a useful knife, and has a lug in it to use with the scabbard as wire cutters).
Thank you for this interesting comment from someone with actual relevant 'real world' experience. As a fellow Canadian, I can certainly agree that winter weather can add extra challenges to travel and camping. And I certainly wouldn't want to be wearing mail - never mind plate - in a blizzard, even with a couple layers of wool underneath. (Now to be fair, as an 'adventurer' it is possible to save somewhat on the camping gear by regularly using your helmet and breastplate as your cookpots. I understand that Napoleonic era cuirassiers found that their breastplates worked very well as squad-sized skillets over the cookfires, which was some consolation for the nuisance of having to cart them around.. I do wonder though, what effect would regular use as a cook pot have on the tempering of a steel helmet or breastplate?)
A good insight. As a former US Medic, another point from the above discussion is that soldiers will trade-off some of their combat ability if it means being able to get along in the wild. Case in point: my infantry unit never carried their bayonets! The marginal utility of a bayonet is small in modern combat, and given the choice between having some giant "Rambo" knife that has very little chance of actually ever being pressed into service, or a small and much more useful multi-tool that can do far more jobs (even if it's worthless in a fight), we'd pick the multi-tool every time. It saved a few pounds. The odds that having a bayonet might actually make the difference was not worth the added weight and inconvenience. In a realistic medieval or fantasy milieu, this means people will not wander the land carrying an "optimal" load-out for a fight if it compromises their ability to just get along in the world. And my addendum: I said a realistic medieval or fantasy milieu. I would add the following criticism: the rule of fun trumps realism. Consider comics. No one cares if Batman's utility belt is unrealistic because accepting his unrealistic but awesome gadgets is part of the price of buying into enjoying Batman. For a heroic fantasy that runs on the rule of fun and awesome, we can suspend disbelief. If the game pitches itself as realistic and grimy, sure, make the players deal with all the little annoyances of their gear and kit. If the game is a power-trip fantasy of that runs on preposterous heroism, don't sweat those details.
Quick release straps? They had an equivalent called quick release knots such as a highway man hitch or a bight in a bend like a sheet bend. you pull the cord and off it falls. sprung broaches as well.
Fallin' in style at an angle by fifty feet an' proceedin' to break th' majority of th' bones in yer body to help get to where ye need always beats doin' that goal by foot. Man... If only I could sexually identify as a trebuchet. Damned be genetics, I say.
An adventurer meets a highwayman coming at him with his sword drawn. Says the adventurer: "Hold on good Sir, might you have a minute for me to put on my plate armour? I should have it somewhere in one of these cabinet-sized saddle bags. And oh, if you wouldn't mind and be so kind as to assist me with the cuirass so we can get to business quickly..." If life but had an inventory screen with an auto-pause function...
An adventurer WAS a highwayman, and vice versa. Real Europe had no monster races that one could pillage with no consequences except for an occasional TPK :-)
I didn't say that the highwayman was an orc :D Are you saying that every adventurer used to rob every wanderer that he came across? Also, I was taking the highwayman/adventurer clichee from the videogames just as much as luggage problem.
Problem: That rarely fits through the average dungeon doors... And you wouldn't want to have to make a choice of what equipment to take everytime you enter a cave or an old castle ruin...
Everest314 It would encourage thinking about what's important about the place you are going into. Good material for problemsolving and it makes people think about having skills that can minimize the amount of gear to lug around.
I don't know. Lydia is always gathering dust in whiterun. I often end up bringing Mjoll the lioness from riften or Eric the Slayer from that inn in rorikstead.
Alright so for maximume practicality. Main Weapon: Arming sword + Buckler or Longsword on the left hip. Projectile: Recurve in specialty quiver, either on horse or right hip. 10-20 Arrows. Tertiary Weapon/Utility: Knife or dagger on the back of the right hip. Torso and Arms: Quilted jacket. Head: Padded Coif + Wide Brim helmet (protects eyes from sun as a bonus). Legs: Just your normal clothing. Back: Your pack with living essentials. Horse: Bed Roll, Saddle bags with extra food/water (and SPARE BOOTS). Sound about right? A mail shirt in an oil cloth bag on your horse might not be a bad plan either.
Jane Murphy Or just detach the horse if you need to move fast and it won't slow you down given that you can ride on the cart as opposed to loaded horse. Not to mention a cart is pretty much mandatory if you're going to carry plate armour, gold (which is extremely heavy or large pieces of equipment.
Anndgrim I never stated plate armour, or gold. Hence why I said "efficient" not "how much I could carry if I absolutely had to, and have a lot of gold".
Sounds just like what a typical livery English mounted longbowmen would have with him. Except the wide-brimmed helmet, you wouldn't want that as an archer.
you know it would be really interesting to play a game where the inventory was limited, survival was a focus and perhaps even carrying certain weapons/poaching illegal so that you have to be sneaky about it and make a judgement whether the armed men up ahead are law-men or bandits and so do you keep your sword hidden and unaccessible.
officechair general Check out Torchbearer. It's specifically a dungeon delving game but the rules definitely have a focus on limited resources and surviving under the pressures of time, human need, and environmental hazards.
This is why I love the Paksenarrion series. Elizabeth Moon really did her research in terms of military life and applied it to this quasi-high-fantasy world she made.
Just one point, I realize you most likely don't wear an axe all day and wouldn't know whether an axe or sword would really be easier to wear all day. As an avid canadian woodsman who has worn an axe and long machete (very similar to a falchion) I would have to say the axe is much easier. It has a mask (sheathe) so it doesn't cut me up, its a 3.5lbs head which is situated on my hip (not belly) so it doesn't jab my ribs and is very non-encumbering. and its length from tip to tip is about 28 inches the entirety of which is smooth and rounded except the blade edge. All in all less cumbersome than a machete/falchion/sword
Dan Luckins; So I can see this was 4 years ago but was interested in what you had to say. So did you wear it like a holster?? When you say "mask," is that like a holster that the head sits in?? I'll go looking for photos but if you're still around maybe you could respond. Thanks in advance, cheers for now mate... ;-}
@@supershane1960 Axe sheath. www.amazon.com/Hide-Drink-Lumberjack-Essentials-Handmade/dp/B07L33WGW5?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-exp-b-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B07L33WGW5 A short axe is easy to carry in a holster/sheath.
i know this is really old, so you likely won't reply... that said, i was wondering - would i be correct in assuming that you are referring to a wood cutting axe... and how much difference would there be between a wood cutting axe and something specifically designed for combat? I can imagine a larger head with a longer edge being more inconvenient to carry, but I wonder how much more.
@@supershane1960 I'm not the original poster, but I do share his experiences and opinions (with one difference described below); maybe it's a Canadian thing... -_^ An axe mask can be considered a kind of sheath. However, where a sheath usually encompasses the whole head of the axe, a mask tends to only cover the bit (the sharp area). It consists of a strap of leather or heavy cloth, that surrounds the bit, and a strap. The strap fits around the back of the axe head - usually tucking between the butt (blunt part opposite the bit) of the axe and the top of the handle. These days, the strap is usually secured by a heavy snap, but they would generally use a string, leather thong or other method in older days. A quick image search on Google should give you a few examples. A mask on its own is no use for carrying an axe; simply for protecting people and the cutting edge from damage, so I can't speak on how the OP actually carried his axe. For my own purposes, I tend to use a full sheath with a belt loop, worn on the hip. The sheath has a hole in the bottom for the handle to pass through, and a sort of flap at the top (think of a postage envelope) to keep the head secured. Again: secured by a snap today; by laces and whatnot in the past. Gravity tends to keep the axe situated, but the upper flap prevents it from jostling out when one is highly active. All of this is well and good when camping, hiking and working. However, it takes a few seconds to remove the axe from its sheath/mask. If I were in a situation where combat might happen at any moment (and I could afford it), I would prefer a sword - which can be drawn from a scabbard in perhaps half a second. The difference is minuscule when one is taking part in bushcraft activities, but could be a lifesaver in battle.
+NetVoyagerOne Pretty much the first thing I took off the players when I wanted to run a more down-to-earth campaign (as opposed to the stab-fests we had been running previously).
I guess it's a philosophical question and has much to do with what kind of roleplaying game you want, but once you have dimensional transcendentalism as a commonality is your game still primarily a fantasy or is it primarily a sci fi? Or are you retaining more of the element of fantasy by adopting the style of "The Legend of Zelda Roleplaying Tabletop Roleplaying Game?" Intuitively, myself, I would prefer to have interdimensional spaces as some sort of rare or singular dramatic McGuffin. I'm not saying that is the only solution for a good game, just what I think would be interesting and would likely suit my tastes, depending on the execution of course.
I've always liked the approach Elder Scrolls games have when it comes to looting fallen enemies, namely that you can take anything (weapons, armor, potions, etc.) that the enemy might have used against you. Obviously, this can screw with game balance due to an overabundance of weapons and armor. Seems like using more realistic encumbrance/carry rules would alleviate this, giving you a valid mechanical reason _not_ to pick up those 8 swords, 7 axes, and incredibly valuable suit of plate armor you found on those bandits you just killed. I would like to see an RPG that distinguishes between carry weight and carry volume, with the former requiring more strength or endurance while the latter is merely a function of how many pockets, sacks, and backpacks you have, perhaps with a sprinkling of how space efficient you are at packing. This makes me wonder how encumbrance would differ between items worn/equipped versus those in your pack. For example, worn armor would obviously use no volume, and I'd think the effect of the weight would be reduced when worn versus when carried in a pack due to being more evenly distributed over your body and closer to your center of mass. The question would be how much. Some items, like gauntlets or boots, might actually [effectively] weigh more when when worn as they would be further from your center of mass than they would be in a backpack, and would specifically weigh down your limbs, slowing you down and tiring you out. Try holding even a light weight in your hand with your arm stretched out for even a few minutes, it's not easy.
I love the Elder Scrolls games, and I feel this in my bones. My yearning for challenging game play and a certain degree of realism often bangs right up against my nature as a pack rat who wants to hoard all the things. Especially with mods that make more items usable as crafting materials.
There's a reason that recurve composite bows didn't catch on in Europe. These bows were only really popular in places that are very dry. This type of bow was laminated and had horn on the belly. It was glued together with glue that didn't take moisture well. Europe, being notably wetter mainly used self bows or 2 layer laminated bows. Also, the ancient Japanese use several types of back quivers.
I believe they become popular throughout India after the Mughals introduced them, and South Indian is most definitely not dry by any stretch of the imagination. My guess as to why they didn't make it big in Western Europe: Central Asian nomads didn't make it that far, and their construction was much more complicated and took a longer time when compared to the longbow so Western Europeans didn't bother with it.
Well, the Europeans made composite constructed crossbow, after coming into contact with those during the Crusades. So I don't think it was that crucial in Europe. Though I'm not sure why they did not adopted the bow. However, we know that the Byzantines (modern day Greece and Turkey), Bulgars and Magyars (modern day Bulgaria and Hungary) all used composite recurve bows. Though yes, definitely composite bows are affected by wet weathers. Treaties on war against people with such bows (including the Koreans) all advises attacking them during wet weathers.
Xuan Vinh To Well there were ways to make a composite bow more or less waterproof for most war purpose, this generally involves lacquering the bow as practiced by the Mughals in India and by the Japanese with their yumis. Neither place were particularly rainless, in the case of Japan the precipitation was similar to most places in Western Europe. The composite bows of the Central Asian nomads were so affected by weather because the common glue they used was water absorbent. I agree that the most likely primary reason for Western Europe's lack of composite handbow use was their lack of mounted archery culture. Most Western European military archers shot on foot, and for this purpose a self bow work just as well as the more costly and difficult to make composite - at least well enough that the extra expense was not judged worthed. Also we should note that the primary missile weapon across much of Medieval Europe was the CROSSBOW, which was primarily of composite construction until the perfection of steelmaking in the 15th century.
John Huang Yeah... Coating the bow in lacquer would protect from moisture, more or less. The Japanese yumi however didn't need to be that well protected from moisture since it was made to be able to get deformed from use and exposure but could then be bent back into shape by a bow craftsman. I don't think however, that the main reason that composite bows were never popularized in Europe was because they didn't practice mounted archery for warfare. During the crusaders, as +Xuan Vinh To mentioned, Europeans adapted the composite bow while in the middle east but didn't popularize the technology back in Europe.
shade_grey Well, I am just going with the weight of historical evidence here. The Europeans actually made great use of the composite bow technology a great deal - in their crossbows. Which shows that weather was most likely not a big problem with proper care of a composite bow. The main advantage of a composite weapon - which justified its greater expense and difficulty in manufacture, was its compactness, a great asset for a mounted archer.
For the polearm : if you go on a journey on foot, wouldn't you take a walking stick ? A spear works fine then ! Even Odin told to always take a spear with you when travelling. A halberd might be a bit more cumbersome. For the axe : either you can take a small hatchet as a tool / secondary weapon attached to your backpack (just like shovels for modern soldiers), or you can secure the edge with a leather protection if you wear is at your belt, althought I don't know how historical would that be.
Remember: Odin is a God :D A spear has a different weight distribution than a walking stick, but I guess if you are going to travel through a dangerous part of a country, it might double as a less comfy walking stick.
ZiePe Havamal (Saying of Odin the High One) : "A wayfarer should not walk unarmed, But have his weapons to hand: He knows not when he may need a spear, Or what menace meet on the road." It's about travel, not war (having your weapons in war is so obvious that it doesn't need mentionning, does it ?). Travelling with a sword or/and seax at your belt and a spear in hand makes sense. More weapons, as Matt pointed out, would be more a hindrance than a help. And come on, a spearhead is so light that it makes almost no difference to have a spear of a walking staff.
jancello What part of Havamal is that? What I found would be better translated (from the Swedish version I found) into "From his weapons A man does not move On the field a single step; To unsure is to know When out on the road The tip of the spear may be needed" (Found it from runeberg.org/eddan/se-02.html) The same part in www.beyondweird.com/high-one.html translates "on the field" as "in the open country". From what I could read of the original text the last link above is probably the best translation in this conversation.
Just right now I'm setting the rules for a role-play, so for me this video was really helpful and came just in time of great need in any guideline. Thanks a lot. :)
While I would agree that I have abused some role playing game mechanics a fair bit, I would also argue that things aren't really as cumbersome as many want to make them out to be. And much of my opinion is based on a long youth spent outdoors working in Canadian rural regions. We weigh ourselves down a lot in the last few decades with modern bits of kit. Camp stove and fuel? > bit of flint or something and your knife. Weeks worth of canned and dried food? > The squirrel and plants you picked up that afternoon along the way. GPS and maps? > Ask the next farmer which way to go. (Thing burn his farm and steal his goats... They have legs, no need to carry them!) What a person carries also depends on how many of them are in the group. Where a 5000 man army needs to carry lots of food and resources with them to make do, a dozen or so people may pass by and collect what they need as they go. Water only gets heavy in a few environments, simply because in most environments you didn't bother carrying much of it at a time. A few cups would be more than enough to get you to the next brook or stream, and unless you're in a really wet environment you would just fill up your water container every time you stepped over a stream. As for carrying pole arms, I would argue they are less cumbersome than you seem to suggest if you are carrying it on your shoulder and supporting it with one hand. Sure, the new guy doing it is going to annoy a few people because he isn't used to just where the back end is as he is moving around, but this is no different than working on a modern construction site: You learn to look out for the 'new guys', dodge when they're doing something stupid, and tear them a new one for being an idiot. They either learn to watch what they're doing with the pole as second nature, or they don't last long in the group. Sling part of your kit in a bag looped around it, and now your spear helps you carry your bedding, while still being fairly quick to unshoulder and let the bag slide down the shaft to the ground if you're surprised by something. When I was a teen I carried a surveyor's rod for some trail work for a summer, and it was easy enough to lug around with all the rest of my kit. It was an old beast of a tool, collapsing down to about 12 feet or so, and heavier than a lot of spears I've handled, but still easy enough to shoulder. I would imagine being able to handle the spear more casually for things like dropping the butt to the ground when you stop would have made it even easier. (And I even led a horse for a bit when one wandered up to us one afternoon, and it was fairly easy to hold both a lead and the rod in one hand, with a good bit of the weight taken by the shoulder. Horse was a little displeased with the arrangement till it figured I wasn't actually going to bonk it in the head however.) A largish shield isn't exceedingly awkward to carry on the back I've found. I've also found that it can double as a lovely umbrella in less than pleasant weather. Personally I kind of think that the "mid-sized" round shields of the later eras possibly represent more of a refinement in fighting styles as they are easier to move and respond with than their larger cousins. A middle ground between the movement and responsiveness of a buckler and the cover/concealment of a far larger round shield. The amount of clothes you really carry doesn't need to be excessive while still staying reasonably clean. You would likely want to dress in layers, but only have changes for the underclothes. And as often seen in modern hiking you will stop for the evening, set up camp, and change. The over clothes get a light brushing as needed, and the old under clothes get washed (Along with yourself) and left to dry over night. In the morning you put the over clothes back on (Some of which also doubled as part of your bedding. Possibly even the underclothes you just washed got used as your pillow if you dried them over a fire or something.) stowed the rest of your kit, and headed off again after breakfast. You aren't exactly in a ready state to be presented to a king, but it is more than good enough to get by for a few weeks at a time without much issue.
+Bobby Siecker Assuming, of course, that you have time to run around and collect stones before a fight. If you're planning on finding them DURING a fight, things will not go well for you.
Tiberiotertio Sure, which means you have to carry around a bag of lead bullets. But Bobby Siecker was talking about "free ammo everywhere". And to be honest, I think slingers make more sense in a battle between armies than in, say, defending oneself against bandits. If there's a big wall of men over there, I don't have to bother aiming very much; if I can get my stone or bullet into that mob, it's bound to hit someone. In smaller-scale combat, more precision is necessary, and my impression is that the sling is not a reliably precise weapon.
Tiberiotertio Practice is necessary for any weapon. Usually, people will only practice until the result is good enough for their purposes. If you're just scaring off predators, it's probably not necessary to hit them. As for carrying around your ammo, that's something you will have to do if you suspect you might be surprised at any time, but it undermines one of the chief benefits of the sling, which is that it is light and easy to carry. I'm not sure a sling and bag of rocks has a carrying advantage -- or really, any advantage whatsoever -- over a small bow and quiver of arrows.
I can testify to the drudgery of wearing a full plate harness for too long. I am, in my mind, too old to buy a Halloween costume but I refuse to not dress up. I didn't have work this past Halloween and only one class at school, so I decided in my infinite wisdom to wear my armor, consisting of a gothic plackart and bevor in conjunction with brigandine and boiled leather arm and leg armor over a mail-enforced arming dublet, for a total of 18 hours or so. by god! my waist was killing me were the plackart sat on mu hips, I took the gauntlets off after about an hour because I couldn't do simple tasks, I couldn't drive (for fear of ripping the seat), by the end of the day my shoulders and knees burned whenever I stood up. in short it was awful.
the main reason I wore it so long is it would take my girlfriend (who puts it on me weekly for my reenactment club) 20 minutes to get it off of me, and I would have to walk anyone else through the process step by step. so in the end the above statements were my own fault.
Matt, please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that bows, especially longbows in particular, were mostly transported unstrung to stop the bowstring from stretching and getting wet or damaged and also to stop the bow getting a "set" so reducing the power of it. Were this the case, it would not be possible to transport it slung across the body anyway. Yet another item to be loaded onto the back of that poor horse :-)
J Corbett Yes longbows were, though recurves were often kept string because they were so difficult to get strung in the first place (one treatises describes using pegs mounted in the wall of your house!). This is another reason why the bow holster was invented for recurve bows, to keep them and their string dry when travelling.
scholagladiatoria I saw an unstrung recurve bow once, and I couldn't recognise it as a bow! I DO NOT want to be grabbing one of those if the string snaps...
10 лет назад+3
scholagladiatoria Actually, I cannot confirm that. I have some recurve bows and can be strung easily, and when I check with asian archery members, they all unstring their bows. The holster were mainly used at war, in campain, in a battle : it was put in the holster to do other things, and it was mainly in horse. As you said, it is impossible to do more than one thing with one hand, so if you want to put out a sword, or drive your horse with more hability, or simply do anything else, your bow is on it's holster. Plus, often they used (depending of the timelines and cultures) two bows, for an unknown reasons, and the second bow was always holstered. Some say it if a spare bow since those horse archers were the main weapons of the army, some other says that it was a lighter bow for other purposes. But bows were strung and unstrung. If you wait a bit, I will try to fetch you some pics.
10 лет назад+2
Here is a scythian vase : "Greek-made electrum vase, from the Kul-Oba kurgan burial near Kerch.". I bring to you scythian representations because I don't do a lot of researches in other steppe cultures archeology. xenohistorian.faithweb.com/russia/scythian%20warriors_3_kul_oba.jpg
scholagladiatoria Bow in a holster and what weapons warrior could have with him , picture shows Polish cavalry type "pancerni" : img22.imageshack.us/img22/9779/seventeenthcenturypolis.jpg
I got two points. One: Traveling in a medieval world would not require a bedroll and enough food for the journey, a big purse filled with coins will do. You are not going to travel through the endless frigging forest that is 300 kilometers in every direction, those forests were by and large gone in western medieval Europe. Grab any old map of France, the Western part of the old HRE or southern England and what you will find is that there is a village about every 2-5 miles. If you are traveling one foot at a normal pace than you could have breakfast in one village, lunch in one of the next few and dinner in the last. Mind you not all of these villages would have a Tavern or an Inn but no farmer is going to turn away five travelers who want to sleep in a barn, have loads of stories on different countries/strange beats etc etc. and a gold coin for food. Need to go to the capital or a big city? You could probably Hitch a ride on a river barge and sleep in a river port every night. Two: I believe those fancy bow holsters are called Tarqais's
I wanna add that while you won't need em for going town to town, the bedroll and rations cliche is still relevant if you were exploring and trying to find the location of some old ruins or what have you out in a wilderness.
Do keep in mind this assumes: 1. You are in friendly territory. Adventurers and mercenaries would sometimes (often) be expected to sneak through enemy territory to carry out their missions. 2. While a 'farmer' would likely be willing to offer you food and place to sleep if you paid well (and assuming you don't look like some riffraff bandits)... keep in mind that 'farmer' likely belongs to a local noble. If you are on good terms with that local noble, sure, he probably won't mind his peasants offering you food and services. However since adventurers and mercenaries may have varying reputation... and could actually be enemy spies, saboteurs, or just bandits... strangers weren't always welcome. And some peasants may refuse to serve you simply because they'd be afraid if their lord will approve. Though it probably depends on a lot of factors. During peaceful times, strangers may be more welcome, though someone may still want to tax their spendings ;)
I remember reading of hearing that Zulu warriors would have traveled with very little food as they managed to forage so well. Of course this would require a very specific terrain. And what I understand about documentaries is that English archers would have carried their bows unstrung on their backs inside fabric cover or something with strings on like a rifle sling. Obviously they had other weapons to deal with surprise attacks. I like how Tolkien in LOTR mentioned that the reason why Gimli could travel while wearing mail armor was that he was a Dwarf and therefor lot stronger than human.
In the case of missile weapons, let me present another exception in the sling and staff sling. The sling fits in one's pocket, and the staff sling works as a walking stick as well. The staff sling/spear idea presented by lindybeige covers the idea of this, and it has the knife, the spear, and the sling covered in one general item.
But for some reason the sling was really out of use in most of europe during medieval times. Wonder why though. I use to carry one around whenever I leave the city and when I stumble across some nice round little stones, I launch a few shots :)
I've heard that learning to use a sling efficiently takes alot of time, when you compare it to a bow. that might be one of the reasons they went out of fashion. I'm still pissed that the sling sux in D&D :/
The edge of an axe was covered by an axe sheath tied to the head, often made of wood. At least in the viking age. There a good number of finds. Carrying an axe in your belt is no problem at all.
Wouldn't a sling be an ideal weapon for traveling with? Takes up virtually no space, could carry multiples, ammo wouldn't be too tough to find and could be carried relatively easily in bags/pouches. Only downside would be hunting and responding quickly.
right... you would count every single piece of equipment to carry it as light as possible - and then a few bags of stones... That seems practical... The stones should be in quite special shape and weight to be used as projectiles, so you use them effectively with enough force and "stopping power" etc.
definitely - so long as your target isn't wearing heavy armor or carrying a large shield... then you want the arrows lol... on the bright side, if you are traveling light, you may well be able to outrun anyone wearing heavy armor.
There's a reason it's been the favorite weapon of shepherds forever. They have to walk with their flocks day after day, but a small bag of pebbles is enough to drive off predators, and a sling itself weighs almost nothing and fits in a small pockets!
@@utubebgay Honestly, larger sling-stones are MORE effective against armor than many arrows. A rock the size of a small fist falling from the sky will dent any armor you can march in. If that's your helmet, you're lucky if a concussion is all you get, and if it's not your head, you're looking at broken bones and armor that doesn't let you move smoothly anymore. Iberian armies were using sling-staff troops basically until the invention of flintlocks!
Dude, you rule. Really, few people can both deliver that kind of endlessly valuable reference information *AND* manage the delivery in a Rambo's knives shirt. Almost willing to say you won the Internet for today but it's not quite lunchtime here yet, so there might still be challengers. Unlikely though.
While in some ways more over the top than any of the rest, John Rambo was the best since first blood. Stallone managed to book end his two franchises with the best movies of those series'
what?? I can't carry 15 swords, 8 pole-axes, 4 crossbows and 2 longbows, coupled with 300+ arrows and bolts before I am overencumbered? together with my sneak armour, my close fighting plate armour and my +crit Archer armour? I have been lied to!!
You both should have spent more attribute points on strength on your recent level-ups... And did you forget to pick up that bottomless bag from that highwayman a few miles back? Noobs!
Another option is to use quest-related gear. That stuff is usually weightless. Just never hand it in. The quest-givers won't mind waiting until it has served its purpose on your countless adventures. ... Or until you find even better quest-related gear and find yourself in need of a couple of quest rewards. Such as to purchase the next inventory space upgrade.
Remember that if you enchant and add a bunch of little pockets, you could carry an additional 15 swords with you, you can basically set up shop with what you can carry alone and would still have enough capacity to bring an entire workshop, everything's possible if you abide by the realms of impossible space
It gets worse in sci-fi. Every "survival" game claims you can always build a house, a car or a spaceship with the stuff lying in your pockets. Most of them don't even give you a backpack. In a recent discussion about one of them, somebody mentioned the player character can carry 50000 cubic metres of steel and still float in water.
On the large shield note, I started thinking about roman/hellenic troops, who traditionally (to my limited knowledge), had their infantryman carry most/all of his equipment and living kit. For most legionaries this included some type of really large heavy shield, and metal torso protection (lighter obviously, although their mail shirts were still heavy), so it can't have been too inconvenient to carry around kit (possibly minus food as they had a baggage train) and shield. Travelling around Europe I think would largely depend on solo vs group travel. With a group you can potentially divvy up the living kit into a tent (which houses multiple) and pot (which cooks for multiple). In a military group setting, I think a cart for the companies polearms and large weapons of war would not be out of the question, leaving the kit and sidearms to the individuals. Lastly on the bedding note, a heavy cloak/coat was probably mans best friend in europe, doubling as a blanket and mattress, so 'wearable bedding' I guess. Spare clothes and a bedroll are probably luxury items in a medieval sense (perhaps a merchant/civilian would bother with them). Interesting video though, love the channel.
You should add that you simply can't transport a bow with bowstring on - longer than maybe hour ;) And backquiver were quite popular in hunting to be honest - I spent 6 hours in forest yesterday with backquiver without any problem. But quiver on the belt is definetly better in case of the rain for sure - its much easier to shield arrows with your cloths then ;)
A series of videos on advice on aspects of medieval gear and life would be pretty cool, especially if geared towards roleplayers and writers. There's so many misconceptions accepted as fact in fictional works that it's hard to be authentic.
Great video. I recall a line from the GURPS roleplaying game's description of sollerets (articulated plate armor for the feet): "Extremely uncomfortable, except in combat." Cheeky, but it gets the point across!
Could you use a bow staff as a walking stick, then string it when you need it? Secondarily, about back quivers, would the AC1 idea work, with throwing knives held in the right shoulder quiver? Finally, as you mentioned having people to help you, I'm reminded of something 5th edition DnD does. Nobles get to have three retainers travelling with them, to cook and clean and dress them, as you suggest would be helpful
Thanks for that. I'm a keen roleplayer and that was massively interesting. A lot of it kind of matched up to what I thought but there were things in there that I hadn't considered previously. Really good video.
maybe a strange question how had the roman legions handled that travelling problem, when they were on march? i mean they have to carry a lot of equipment, weapons and huge shields. were there auxiliary units, who helped them? horses or other pack animals? a fleet of wagons? how worked their logistics? any ideas
I'm not an expert, but can offer a couple of points. Soldiers on campaign are a little different from what Matt's talking about. Their purpose is to engage in combat, so the kit they need to do that job is of prime importance. Different armies in different periods used all the things you mention, and furthermore would forage along the route. Legionaries apparently called themselves "Marius' Mules" after his reforms, one of which required them to carry their own kit so as not to clutter up the column with pack animals or carts, which could slow it down considerably. An excellent book covering such things in great detail is Engels' "Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army": www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520042728
Well afaik (and there is actually a lot of literature about that, maybe check wikipedia). They had to carry their own armor and weapons. They had even a long wooden stick with a cross shaped end to carry over their shoulder and hang stuff on. Here is one objection I have to make against Matt's statements: He generalises a bit too much (generally speaking ;)) When you train carrying around a lot of staff, you will be able to carry around a bit more then the average person. I dont say that you could go on a Marco Polo-esque voyage wearing plate armor and a pike and a longbow in one hand whilst steering your horse and reloading your handgun with the other hand, but as for the roman soldier eg., he was trained to be a transport donkey. I'm still astonished how much they could carry on their own. Maybe that was also a key feature to roman military success: Being more nimble due to a smaller baggage train. And I'd wager that later (medieval) armies didnt have this kind of training auto sufficiency... Mongols being an exception of course ;)
I don't know in this case, but allmost every army requires support troops that bring food, water and gear but is not fit for direct confrontations. In the context of the 30years war it is known that entire families followed the path of the mercenaries carrying the food etc. They were also the ones that were feared for torturing and looting once a city became conquered.
edi For sure, but the if the ratio of fighting troops vs support troops is in more in favour of the aforementioned, that means your army is generally less vulnerable and you just have less people running around, needing to be organized.
there's a series called conquest with I think his name is Peter Woodward, which explains your question in detail. Long story short, Romans worked in units of depending on the period about 8 men, which were given one donkey to help them carry stuff, they could disribute some of their gear, for example their tend, but in the end, they had to carry a lot of stuff.
Great informative video! I'm amazed that you can talk continuously, and coherently with great points 20 minutes with no notes. About the long bow, I've always assumed during travel/march the bow must be unstrung and stored in your back pack or horse. I don't think it's a good idea keeping the bow strung all the time when travelling just in case of a bandit attack or something.
Good to see this. I was visiting the Wallace collection yesterday, and was reflecting what an absolute pain polearms would have been to carry around. They were seriously big and heavy. If you are moving from one place to another with a polearm, that's your job, basically acting as part of the wagon train. On the subject of which, don't forget carts and wagons, which definitely are pictured moving shields and bits of armour from place to place.
Holsters for Bows did exist in Europe. During medieval times primarily in Hungary. When the renaissance starts almost all Polish cavalry (well it's missile part) turns from using crossbows towards bows, by 1514 and battle of Orsha there is no crossbowmen in Polish military they all changed to bows or guns. I don't know how quivers for bows are called in Hungarian or other languages but in Polish its "łubia" and together with arrows quiver they form "sajdak" or "sahajdak"
Hungarians used recurve bows. Their military mostly consisted of horse archers (at least when they invaded Eastern Europe - after they settled in the Carpathian basin, crossbows became more popular) Btw quiver in Hungarian is called "tegez".
jancello true but not all bows in Europe were long bows, Roman army had recurve bows and so on.+Frost Blast true, Poles did learn a lot from Hungarians there is saying in Polish "Pole and Hungarian are two brothers both in saber and in glass(drinking)"
To be fair a lot of medieval era RPG’s have what is called the bag of holding which is basically a bag that you can hold a semi infinite amount of things in like a small rooms worth of stuff and it only weighs 10 pounds and that’s a common magic item or relatively common like any adventuring party probably has one and it lets you carry about 5000 pounds of stuff so that solves one issue it also calls the object that you’re looking for to it you just have to know that it’s in there
With respect to axes, presumably they had leather pouchy scabbardy things to cover the head, just as many tool hatchets nowadays have? In a lot of fantasy stories the heroes often wrap up in their cloaks at night (something I've also heard tell of highlanders doing with their big long tartan blanket-toga things). How accurate would that be? Lastly, with respect to holding a polearm and leading a horse at the same time - you can just wrap the reins around your hand then hold the shaft of the weapon and still have a hand free for munching your food or whatever. Admittedly this could go poorly if something makes the horse bolt, but as a modern day example sometimes things can go poorly when holding coffee, or a mobile phone, while driving a car, but people still do it...
I think a pretty analagous historical setting to consider are the Conquistadors in the New World. Fairly small groups, by comparison to actual armies of the period, covering a lot of ground and concerned with the aquisition of treasure. Yes the period falls into the gray area of Late Medieval to Early Modern era, but in terms of the weapons primarily used they are essentially the same as roleplaying games in the fantasy mold. They did carry polearms, but primarily swords and bucklers. The armor they had was primarily breastplates and helmets. Just a thought...
+scarfacemperor That one episode where Hank implies swords to be weapons of war, accompanied by an image of medieval armies, all but a forest of spears.
Redman Allen If I recall correctly, a Mongol king actually tried to convince the Europeans to start a crusade sometime after the end of the last official one. He was Buddhist, I think. I always found that story interesting, but I can't remember any of the details.
Great video! Interesting food for thought. Assuming that I was traveling with at least a wheel barrow; above and beyond regular camping gear, I would travel with a well made gambeson with jack chains on the arms, a sleeveless mail shirt, a helmet, thick gloves, a buckler, a small knife, a small hatchet, a sword with a complex hilt like a side sword, a spear and a sling. Heavy in a barrow but feasible I think. A horse cart would be better but you have to feed the horse. A pair of strong goats to pull the cart might be better. They can forage easier even in winter and if you have to help push the cart up hills or through mud, well boo hoo. A block and tackle and stout rope is handy for unsticking carts but would also add to the overall weight of the thing day in day out.
With a village in it, featuring a blacksmith , a wizard tower and all of the necessities for your travelling wizard , battlemage or demigod. Miniature giant space hamster optional.
Another missile weapon in the early medieval period that might be more practical would be the sling or Scottish sling stick. Light, compact, good for hunting. (so long as the woods aren't too dense)
+Cal6009 It would certainly help. But, you need insulation under you and above you. If you make a bed of boughs or dead grass it can insulate your body from the ground (which will suck your body heat out like a starved vampire drinking your blood) A cloak is helpful, but, most would carry a second blanket to go over the grass or what have you. If you want more info look at some bushcraft videos on using wool blankets, because they use blankets as cloaks too sometimes.
Did people carry multiple blades? I can only think of Sikhs and a few people today that depend on being fast with the knife. The problem with a weapon is that you have to be able to draw it in time. If you get surprised you might have to draw the dagger instead of the sword to save time. Both could be impossible if someone grabs our right hand (or you get bitten there). Thus some people also have a blade that can be drawn with the left hand, or one that they could draw when they are on the back and someone on top of them (e.g. a boot knife).
Have you ever tried to get at a boot knife when lying on your back and pinned down? It's an absolute nightmare. About the only time they're convenient to access (as opposed to convenient because they're hard to spot) is when you're sitting down in a chair. Otherwise they're miles away from your hands. A dagger worn at the hip can be drawn fairly easily with either hand, either way up. Until you start going for modern-style combat knives carried upside-down near the shoulder, there's not many more convenient places than around the belt area.
Tea Kew you can draw a bootknife when your legs are bent and standing. When yomeone is on top he will probably not even see you drawing it and you can backstab him. Of course this wont work, when hes pinned or got an armbar.
Canadian frontiersman typically carry a tomahawk and three knives, one in the belt, one in the boot and one strung around the neck. Although only the belt knife was meant as a killing tool, the other two were small utility tools.
Well we can look at a few finds for a few data points. The Bocksten man was carrying two knives for example, and if you look at archeological reports for other bog finds and sites such at Visby and the Mary Rose you can probably find more concrete answers. I carry two for my living history impression and a case can easily be made for three. I have a utility knife and a dagger. Other options would be an eating knife or another sort of working knife that is particularly suited for the trade of the individual. I don't feel that having hidden knives would be much of a priority for these people. The fact is everyone could be assumed to be armed all times and if you want more protection, it was more worthwhile to carry a buckler and sword or other systems Matt talks about than to hide a short blade.
Great Rambo tee shirt . always insightful breakdowns. for a Yank who may carry a kuhkri in the woods during hunting season besides my rifle; its always interesting to consider the daily kit of men at arms . thanks again for the great show
The best armor that fits in a small box: Yoroi (Samurai armor) PS: if your poor horse carries the armor, food and the water, who carries the horses water? -I believe a horse requires 10x more than a human...
Horses can go longer than humans without water, so they could drink when reaching a stream or lake or something. A human needs water on the go. Also, a human is a little more sensitive about water cleanliness than horses, limiting his potential sources or forcing him to boil it - not very practical when you're on the road and thirsty.
edi Yeah, but they were in a very arid environment. Also, most of the crusades were quite poorly organized, and pretty much a logistical nightmare. If you want a good example of horse logistics, take the Mongol invasions. :)
Most knights had 3 horses, one for traveling called palfrey with a gait suitable for long distance traveling, a destrier for battle and tournaments that were too valuable for simple travel in case they got injured, and a rounsey for the squire that serves them. Plate armor, weapons, clothing, and provisions can easily be carried between three horses. Either way there were towns nad villages along the roads and when traveling in the deserts people usually do it as part of caravan.
Clearly you store it in a really big chest in a giant underground cave, guarded by a small army of Skeletons and Zombies. Maybe a nest of giant cave spiders if you're feeling extra paranoid but those things really make a mess of the place with all their webbing. Banks are for suckers.
I agree with Orkar Isber. In many roleplay games (computer/table/live action - doesn’t matter) the main purpose of leaving a town is not to get somewhere else, but to fight and kill. So, in such cases you should compare adventurers not with a pilgrim, but with a soldier on a battlefield. If you do not have suitable armor and weapons you will likely not live long enough to prepare food, have a rest or do any other ordinary hiking things. Another point (maybe as idea for future videos) - need for weapons variety. Swords are pretty effective against human brigands - that’s good. But if you run high risk of encountering giant ogres, or super armored giant tortoises, or small creatures who hunt in large packs, or mages who shoot lightning from distance, etc. - you will need something which is at least more or less effective in all these situations. That is definitely more than one or two weapons. So, if you have to sacrifice movement speed, comfort, extra supplies, change clothes, etc. just to be able to survive in inevitable numerous battles - you will do it. Of course, main unrealistic thing is that humans simply cannot exist in such dangerous world for significant time. But my main point is - adventurers are not travellers, they are fighters who carry only the necessary minimum of things not related to combat.
I was just re-watching this and had a thought, although you've covered it (although not in this context, I think it was mentioned). Weapons laws. I haven't played a pen and paper RPG in 14 or 15 years, but when I did, that was always a good way to suddenly make "weak" enemies serious. Seeing as how RPG skill sets tend to be very specific, those angry youths with cudgels and daggers can suddenly be a serious threat if your man hasn't got plate and a pollaxe anymore. The game I played was a point-buy system, not class based. Knowing they weren't gonna stroll into a city ready for a pitched battle, it made them seriously consider sticking a few precious points into unarmed combat or knife skills.
I always role-play that part. My character only wears normal clothes (or gambeson), and puts its armor only before a battle. But it is a great idea for a mod. To automatically change your normal everyday gear to your "war gear" before a battle.
JuliusAkavirius And if you were ambushed while marching or resting, the game will roll a dice to determine in what condition you were attacked. So depending on your luck you could be forced in a fight naked.
Just have to wait until Thursday. Yes, yes... Thursday is the day. Next Thursday, yes. It's not far out now. Not at all, no, no, just the next Thursday.
Thank is for this video Matt. As always facts are often quite different to fantasy. A lot of this I get from GoT and remember the guy being given to Brianna as a Page. Had to set up her fire at night, cook her tucker, rub down the horse,sorted out the bedding and clothes etc... And now I know that he would also have had to clean up her armour and sort out her weapons (Sword)... LOL, great like... ;-}
Good Video!, I'm all in for Realism when it comes to Role-Play. I think one of the main reasons that many of this things are not present on games or any other type of medieval whatever.. it's because keeping track of all the variables becomes really hard, I play World Of Darkness: Vampire - Dark Ages, I'm currently the Game Master and it's really difficult to keep track of everything, so I'm making a web application to help me on that regard :3 because I think that adding all the bits and pieces creates a more immersive experience.
Hmm, if I were an adventurer with a horse, then my equipment will probably be: On person: - Helmet - Brigandine or mail, with plate greaves and gauntlet (probably not too heavy and restrictive). - Sword and buckler. - Composite bow or crossbow (depending on my strength) and quiver. On horse: - a bec de corbin, or poleaxe type weapon: longer than a sword, shorter than a spear or halberd. For anti-armor use. - a larger shield, say for when I need to take cover from arrow attacks. - a stick. Could serve as a walking stick, quarterstaff and to extend the reach of my poleaxe, turning it to a halberd-like weapon, for anti-cavalry use. There are records of long pikes (like Alexander's sarissa) being transported in 2 halves.
Hi Matt I have my own take on it, If you would indulge me for a moment. Much of what you said I agree with, though there are some points that occurred to me whilst watching I wish to share with you. You mentioned carrying A sword as a sidearm - While I see no issues with carrying a sword, I would imagine that while "Adventuring" (From my own experience camping) you would want to carry an axe as well even if just for chopping wood. Shield, I agree about not wanting to carry anything much bigger than a buckler or Targe, If you are going on an adventure as opposed to going out looking to engage some enemy or dastardly deed. Armour - I agree with your suggestion of a Brigandine though having worn simple maille as a Live role playing and re-enacting events I'm not sure that I'd want to carry it with me on a simple adventure. Would you want too, or even be able to carry a Polearm by the time you are carrying everything else you'd need to survive for a week or so, as well as have some room for "Loot" - No, I dont think you would. A small bow would be a boon, but for hunting a sling would be equally as useful against small game, though I would take both. Much of the pots and pans, a blanket or two comb flint and steel and food would start getting bulky, and I think by the time you have finished packing all of this you would look more like a prospector than Coman, but it is still there, one way or another.
Travelling frum Londom to Dublin, on mid 13 hundreads. Maybe running from the plague, or to sell Spaniard/Portuguese literature translations, i'd simply pack my mule with basics of living(bed,foodwear,lamp and what have you), on the other side my merchandise, i'd wear a simple gambezon and maybe if i had the money to buy, or inheritted it, a suit of mail. I'd carry a handy sling on my pocket (most under-rated utencil ever, and a great topic for future videos) for gathering and self defence, a sidesword and a buckler or targe. And my all-trusty situational awareness. Oh, and hope to the gods that the Sawney Bean isn't around :D
But... wouldn't Dublin be the actual place a man would get such a sword? Also, i tried to glue a pach of grass to my buckler but people tought i was crazy i just yelled at them STA-MIN-A BONUUUUS
Quivers were not used in medieval times (from my understanding). Instead, arrows were kept in "arrow bags" which were made from waxed linen, and included a separator at the top to keep the fletchings from rubbing together, and also a top flap to keep out rain, etc. For more on the subject, I'd recommend "Longbow: A Social and Military History" by England's own Robert Hardy.
I spent the first 3 minutes distracted by the evolution of the Rambo movie knives on your shirt..... It took about that long for me to remember "Huh, I'll be damned. Those are Rambo's blades from the Rambo series of crappy action flicks". I then had to go back to the beginning so I could pay attention to what you were saying, because that is why I clicked on this. I have been attempting to write some fantasy sort of stories and wanted a realistic account of what was reasonable to carry. While with fantasy you can get away with pretty much anything you want there should still be some hard and fast rules, such as how much one can carry and what sort of things they would carry.
I would like to write some fantasy stories so this is very helpful for me. Having specific details right makes the stuff that is done imaginary on purpose seem more believable. Thanks a bunch.
One may also think they need a lot of fantasy RPG’s they know what vanadium is and mix it into all of their steel thereby allowing them armor that never rusts and I assume this may be an enchantment on any master work gear to just make it comfortable
Bedding 2 wool blankets, reindeer hide, pine boughs surrounded by logs in a lean-to fashion and covered with more pine boughs, moss , what have you . Fire with a heat wall to radiate heat toward lean-to. Great points about full plate, typically 45mins or so with assistance to get in and out of full plate. Gambeson with leather armor and/or riveted chainmail with constant supply of oil, two horses perhaps, one as a pack mule, the other battle ready while on the move.
Good video, thanks for the ideas. One thing about pole arms, is that they are sort of like a staff, as such they are easily carried on foot. Ive done some backpacking, and like to carry a staff. It is nice to walk with, and if you need to do something with both hands, you can set it against a tree or rock. But quite nice, and thought provoking video.
Thanks for another very informative and useful presentation. You've helped clarify some key points for a fantasy novel I'm writing. Games like Skyrim make it possible to travel in heavy armour all the time, but even immersive mods don't really take the issues you raise into account.
The targes you mentioned would be a late-16th, 17th, 18th century thing. There is some contention that depictions of round shields on medieval Scottish grave slabs are in fact bucklers rather than targes. As far as what a medieval Scot would have worn on the road goes...I imagine a medieval Scot on the road would have his side arm with a dagger maybe, wearing an aketon (light protection and warmth), maybe a helmet and maille, as well as a mantle (which could double as bedding), some kind of rucksack with his miscellaneous kit, MAYBE a bow or javelins (but packed away). It seemed common amongst Gaels in Ireland and Scotland to be lightly armoured.
Thank you for making this video! I run roleplaying games using the Pathfinder system, and your advice really helps me create my own rules to make up for all the bull that the system has written. At this point, I'll probably end up making my own system! Daggers and Longswords have the same reach... what is this world coming to...
So a follow on post; my ideal kit, let me know what you think: Armour: As you said, some kind of light armour. Potentially some kind of gambeson, or perhaps some kind of brigandine. For long term travel though I’d prefer straight cloth armour, since it is light effective, and easy to repair if needs be. Which with the frequency your average Adventurer is out pillaging, getting eaten by a dragon, and then resurrected would be fairly often I should think. Some kind of helmet, my preference would be some kind of kettle hat as it might help keep the sun/rain off? Missile Weapon: Sling & Bullets. Nice and light, still can kill all but the heaviest armoured opponents. Missile weapons I think would be particularly useful for a adventurer since effectively they are hunters of a kind and I would not want to try an engage in melee with any wild animal magical or not. That said it might not be necessary in a magical setting where thrown spells might prove more useful in the long run. Melee Weapons: Well swords are an obvious choice in this regard, but just to be different maybe a staff? It might give you better reach over a sword armed opponent, be inconspicuous, and possibly act as a shield against certain weapons (mainly spears or lances where attacks are linear). Buckler & Knife can also make for a inconspicuous and effective combo. No need to pick fights with the locals while you are on your way to storm the Castle by waltzing around armed and dangerous looking.
Love this topic :) If you plan to live in the wilderness for any length of time, you need to have a decent axe anyway. Of course, an axe without shield might not be the best weapon...You can easily carry a shorter bow in a sleeve on your back, or attached to your pack. That's how I carry my Kassai bow (although I rarely carry it around). You could also stick your bow and arrows in your bedroll. Just some thoughts...
Videos like this, that compare reality to games, are really great. Alot of folks (including me) have pretty much no knowledge of experience with medieval weaponry or even modern weaponry, and so our only knowledge of them is in the concept of games. I would imagine this is why you are getting alot of strange questions like this.
Really enjoyed this video. Especially the bit about armor. The one part that I think you should have talked about, full plate (to be put on properly) can not be donned by one's self. The other reason you had a squire. Not just to take care of and transport the plate mail, but also to put you in it.
I wouldn't be surprised if travellers carried a hatchet and a quaterstaff. The hatchet for firewood and the staff for difficult terrain (swamps, gravel; very uneven and slippery ground). Today even when we walk in the countryside we hardly ever see what difficulties ancient travellers faced.
I'm not sure if many people has played or heard of this, but there is a Pen and Paper Role-playing system called The Riddle of Steel that addresses this and various other aspects of realism in it's rules. Encumbrance is enforced to keep things sensible, as just as you said Matt if you have one large object to carry around expect to have less of everything else. The system's combat is also very detailed and overall it's one of the only (if not the only) system that is approved my the Association of Renaissance Martial Arts.
A note about wearing a bow across your back. with a modern longbow you can unstring one end and slide the unstrung portion of the string down the arm of the bow. doing this keeps the other end from dragging, and would prevent the pressure on the chest you are talking about. important note: i don't know if this would work with a historic bow because I don't own one to try.
10 лет назад
Thank you for this video ! It is full of good ideas and informations ! If ever you feel to do the same kind of thing for other timelines (like Victorian, XVIIIth century, etc), especially with the concepts of laws, what was tolerated, accepted, etc, what was found in cities, or in travel, etc, it would be really great too. Thanks again, I will share this video to some roleplayers friends of mine whith whom I play frequently :)
I have a preference of rapiers and cut & thrust swords and have thought a lot about this. One reason is the high frequency of monsters and large humanoids, thus you want big durable weapons. The longsword being the perfect choice a lot of the time. You average enemy in an RPG is not an unarmoured human.
So Link. Arming sword, heater shield, boomerang, tunic and hood for warmth, small but strong recurve bow and quiver, a few small items and rupies that would fit in a small belt bag or hand bag, and a magic ring that protects like armor but is far more comfortable to wear. Even with links boots, gauntlets, and mail he's sometimes depicted with, I think most fighting shape humans could easily run around all day with this setup.
I agree with most of what you said in the video on bucklers and shields for sort of every day wear, but on the subject of adventuring or campaigning I have some experience which make me disagree with some of your points and have insight into others. I do a 12th c living history portrayal of a foot soldier without that pack animal and frequently go out with a small group with only this equipment, covering some miles both on and off trails. I carry a large center grip shield at all times. It is the width of my shoulders and as high as my knee to my shoulder, so about 24" by 42". I carry it with a guige which simply has one end looped on the grip and the other goes over my shoulder. The shield comfortably is suspended near by hip and does not interfere with walking. It can either be ignored altogether or used as an arm rest. It certainly weighs a couple pounds, but isn't nearly as encumbering on a march as a modern machine gun from personal experience. I honestly haven't weighed all of my gear all together, but my estimate of armor (gambeson and conical helmet), weapons (large shield, spear, axe, dagger), food for a couple days, water bottles, and bedroll with sundries is about 25kg. These are the minimum things needed for a march, no tent to weigh me down and it's completely do-able. If I add the two man tent I've made, there is a significant increase in weight and bulk that would require splitting loads with a partner or using a pack animal. My solution for carrying my axe is to tuck it into my bedroll which is then carried on my back. That and a little leather cover keeps the edge away from my squishy bits and allows a fairly ready draw by just reaching back if need be. I also carry a seven foot spear, which is of course immediately ready. As far as wearing non-plate armor for extended periods, I'd also mention cloth armor. I have worn my heavy gambeson for nearly a week on end, just taking it off when camping for the night. It's not comfortable of course, but it was manageable in temperatures as high as 37C and down to freezing as long as it is dry. Here's a picture of the gear I'm describing. I have the shield flipped around, usually I keep the tail down on the flats but around the rocks it was more convenient to have it up and not banging into rocks. www.dropbox.com/s/h1ogsfh42tuzk6j/2013-09-30%2016.37.09.jpg?dl=0
deadextra I do a 15th Century archer from the Wars of the Roses myself, and I completely agree with you on cloth armor. I'll wear a padded jack and I find that it can be heavy and somewhat uncomfortable, but I can stay in it for long periods if I so chose. Its also quite warm with all those layers, as opposed to metal armor which sucks away heat from your body. It also provides far better protection than people seem to realize. I tried thrusting my longsword through a 30 layer padded jack as it lay on the ground and failed to get in far enough to cause more than a superficial wound. It would probably save you from most arrow hits as well, particularly if the bow isn't all that high powered. Out of curiosity, what impression is yours? It looks like Italo-Norman to my eyes but I could be wrong.
deadextra I'd certainly be interested in seeing the results. I'm probably going to be making a similar padded tube and yoke armor for a 3rd Century BC Greek impression I am working on and may want to use your findings in its making. I've always been interested in the Siculo-Norman era, if you have any more pictures or a group website I'd love to see them.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Little do you know, I can store everything in an alternate dimension and equip them all in seconds. I like to call this...my "inventory"
NoForksGiven "Hammerspace"
Yes 😅
Bag of Holding?
@Howard Pearcey -
I dont know. Sometimes, sacrificing a set of enchanted items is the perfect way to get rid of an assailant. It's expensive, but it can be the difference between life and death.
@@LarsaXL where does this hammerspace come from i heard someone say it before
After some time in the infantry, and going to Afghanistan, I can visualize this all too well. That, and being in the Canadian infantry has given the added perspective of trying to do it all in deep snow come winter. Layering and armour work against each other. Something people don't think about is weather changes. I have been out on military exercise that included extremely hot sun, rain, and snow. Trying to carry all of the food, bedding, etc with you, as well as your weapon, and having the ability to dress up/dress down for the weather takes a lot of space. When working dismounted we didn't exactly have a horse to carry stuff, which I think is another point, not everyone had a horse back then. A lot of poor sods had to just carry their stuff. Even with a back pack, if you get in a fight, likely you are not going to drop it, you will have to fight with it on, because A: it takes time to take it off unless you have modern quick release straps B: if you have to retreat, and you took it off, you just lost your stuff, and you now die tonight from exposure because you have no bedding, campfire kit, or food. Axes were also quite popular, depending on the area and period as they were cheaper to make, also they double as a tool to help set up camp. When hiking or soldiering it is key to have as much of your stuff multipurpose as possible (eg new Canadian bayonet is also a useful knife, and has a lug in it to use with the scabbard as wire cutters).
Thank you for this interesting comment from someone with actual relevant 'real world' experience. As a fellow Canadian, I can certainly agree that winter weather can add extra challenges to travel and camping. And I certainly wouldn't want to be wearing mail - never mind plate - in a blizzard, even with a couple layers of wool underneath.
(Now to be fair, as an 'adventurer' it is possible to save somewhat on the camping gear by regularly using your helmet and breastplate as your cookpots. I understand that Napoleonic era cuirassiers found that their breastplates worked very well as squad-sized skillets over the cookfires, which was some consolation for the nuisance of having to cart them around.. I do wonder though, what effect would regular use as a cook pot have on the tempering of a steel helmet or breastplate?)
@@screwtape2713 you would devastate your armour piece with that kind of practice...
A good insight. As a former US Medic, another point from the above discussion is that soldiers will trade-off some of their combat ability if it means being able to get along in the wild. Case in point: my infantry unit never carried their bayonets! The marginal utility of a bayonet is small in modern combat, and given the choice between having some giant "Rambo" knife that has very little chance of actually ever being pressed into service, or a small and much more useful multi-tool that can do far more jobs (even if it's worthless in a fight), we'd pick the multi-tool every time. It saved a few pounds. The odds that having a bayonet might actually make the difference was not worth the added weight and inconvenience.
In a realistic medieval or fantasy milieu, this means people will not wander the land carrying an "optimal" load-out for a fight if it compromises their ability to just get along in the world.
And my addendum: I said a realistic medieval or fantasy milieu. I would add the following criticism: the rule of fun trumps realism. Consider comics. No one cares if Batman's utility belt is unrealistic because accepting his unrealistic but awesome gadgets is part of the price of buying into enjoying Batman. For a heroic fantasy that runs on the rule of fun and awesome, we can suspend disbelief. If the game pitches itself as realistic and grimy, sure, make the players deal with all the little annoyances of their gear and kit. If the game is a power-trip fantasy of that runs on preposterous heroism, don't sweat those details.
Quick release straps? They had an equivalent called quick release knots such as a highway man hitch or a bight in a bend like a sheet bend. you pull the cord and off it falls. sprung broaches as well.
I live in Greenland. Cold and cold weather gear is a killer when straining- like moving non-slow or fighting- you get soaked, and after, you freeze.
Fast-travel by trebuchet should help.
Fallin' in style at an angle by fifty feet an' proceedin' to break th' majority of th' bones in yer body to help get to where ye need always beats doin' that goal by foot.
Man... If only I could sexually identify as a trebuchet. Damned be genetics, I say.
You have no idea that within a glimpse of an eye after being launched you are already a flying dead bag of loose meat. Consider the acceleration.
James Gordley 😂
Would you please do more videos about realism in role playing games? This is very helpful!
An adventurer meets a highwayman coming at him with his sword drawn. Says the adventurer: "Hold on good Sir, might you have a minute for me to put on my plate armour? I should have it somewhere in one of these cabinet-sized saddle bags. And oh, if you wouldn't mind and be so kind as to assist me with the cuirass so we can get to business quickly..."
If life but had an inventory screen with an auto-pause function...
An adventurer WAS a highwayman, and vice versa. Real Europe had no monster races that one could pillage with no consequences except for an occasional TPK :-)
I didn't say that the highwayman was an orc :D
Are you saying that every adventurer used to rob every wanderer that he came across?
Also, I was taking the highwayman/adventurer clichee from the videogames just as much as luggage problem.
An oldschool 4x4 and trailer would help..AKA horse and cart :)
Problem: That rarely fits through the average dungeon doors... And you wouldn't want to have to make a choice of what equipment to take everytime you enter a cave or an old castle ruin...
Everest314 It would encourage thinking about what's important about the place you are going into. Good material for problemsolving and it makes people think about having skills that can minimize the amount of gear to lug around.
No wonder The Hound from Game of Thrones is always so angry. That guy never takes his gear off!
Even his dastardly brother was shirtless onscreen once.
Who's going to carry all that stuff... Lydia...
I am sworn to carry your burden...
I don't know. Lydia is always gathering dust in whiterun. I often end up bringing Mjoll the lioness from riften or Eric the Slayer from that inn in rorikstead.
# reltih floda # Mods bring them all
Go Inigo or go home.
I am a mage, not a pack mule
Alright so for maximume practicality.
Main Weapon: Arming sword + Buckler or Longsword on the left hip.
Projectile: Recurve in specialty quiver, either on horse or right hip. 10-20 Arrows.
Tertiary Weapon/Utility: Knife or dagger on the back of the right hip.
Torso and Arms: Quilted jacket.
Head: Padded Coif + Wide Brim helmet (protects eyes from sun as a bonus).
Legs: Just your normal clothing.
Back: Your pack with living essentials.
Horse: Bed Roll, Saddle bags with extra food/water (and SPARE BOOTS).
Sound about right? A mail shirt in an oil cloth bag on your horse might not be a bad plan either.
Jane Murphy Or buy a cart.
Anndgrim
A cart would slow you down, or require more money if you got a second animal to pull it.
Jane Murphy Or just detach the horse if you need to move fast and it won't slow you down given that you can ride on the cart as opposed to loaded horse. Not to mention a cart is pretty much mandatory if you're going to carry plate armour, gold (which is extremely heavy or large pieces of equipment.
Anndgrim
I never stated plate armour, or gold. Hence why I said "efficient" not "how much I could carry if I absolutely had to, and have a lot of gold".
Sounds just like what a typical livery English mounted longbowmen would have with him. Except the wide-brimmed helmet, you wouldn't want that as an archer.
you know it would be really interesting to play a game where the inventory was limited, survival was a focus and perhaps even carrying certain weapons/poaching illegal so that you have to be sneaky about it and make a judgement whether the armed men up ahead are law-men or bandits and so do you keep your sword hidden and unaccessible.
officechair general Real world challenges normally make games of any kind more rewarding and interesting.
officechair general Check out Torchbearer. It's specifically a dungeon delving game but the rules definitely have a focus on limited resources and surviving under the pressures of time, human need, and environmental hazards.
thanks i will do
+scholagladiatoria They can, but they can also become cumbersome and homework-like. It depends on what the players are looking for out of a game.
+Bill Wood seamless integration is important definitely
This is why I love the Paksenarrion series. Elizabeth Moon really did her research in terms of military life and applied it to this quasi-high-fantasy world she made.
:0! Someone else read it.......
Just one point, I realize you most likely don't wear an axe all day and wouldn't know whether an axe or sword would really be easier to wear all day. As an avid canadian woodsman who has worn an axe and long machete (very similar to a falchion) I would have to say the axe is much easier. It has a mask (sheathe) so it doesn't cut me up, its a 3.5lbs head which is situated on my hip (not belly) so it doesn't jab my ribs and is very non-encumbering. and its length from tip to tip is about 28 inches the entirety of which is smooth and rounded except the blade edge. All in all less cumbersome than a machete/falchion/sword
Dan Luckins oh and yes, everywhere an axe has been, and in every age, there has been axe masks
Dan Luckins; So I can see this was 4 years ago but was interested in what you had to say. So did you wear it like a holster?? When you say "mask," is that like a holster that the head sits in?? I'll go looking for photos but if you're still around maybe you could respond. Thanks in advance, cheers for now mate... ;-}
@@supershane1960
Axe sheath.
www.amazon.com/Hide-Drink-Lumberjack-Essentials-Handmade/dp/B07L33WGW5?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-exp-b-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B07L33WGW5
A short axe is easy to carry in a holster/sheath.
i know this is really old, so you likely won't reply... that said, i was wondering - would i be correct in assuming that you are referring to a wood cutting axe... and how much difference would there be between a wood cutting axe and something specifically designed for combat? I can imagine a larger head with a longer edge being more inconvenient to carry, but I wonder how much more.
@@supershane1960 I'm not the original poster, but I do share his experiences and opinions (with one difference described below); maybe it's a Canadian thing... -_^
An axe mask can be considered a kind of sheath. However, where a sheath usually encompasses the whole head of the axe, a mask tends to only cover the bit (the sharp area). It consists of a strap of leather or heavy cloth, that surrounds the bit, and a strap. The strap fits around the back of the axe head - usually tucking between the butt (blunt part opposite the bit) of the axe and the top of the handle. These days, the strap is usually secured by a heavy snap, but they would generally use a string, leather thong or other method in older days. A quick image search on Google should give you a few examples.
A mask on its own is no use for carrying an axe; simply for protecting people and the cutting edge from damage, so I can't speak on how the OP actually carried his axe. For my own purposes, I tend to use a full sheath with a belt loop, worn on the hip. The sheath has a hole in the bottom for the handle to pass through, and a sort of flap at the top (think of a postage envelope) to keep the head secured. Again: secured by a snap today; by laces and whatnot in the past. Gravity tends to keep the axe situated, but the upper flap prevents it from jostling out when one is highly active.
All of this is well and good when camping, hiking and working. However, it takes a few seconds to remove the axe from its sheath/mask. If I were in a situation where combat might happen at any moment (and I could afford it), I would prefer a sword - which can be drawn from a scabbard in perhaps half a second. The difference is minuscule when one is taking part in bushcraft activities, but could be a lifesaver in battle.
The takeaway from this is that the Bag of Holding is a GODSEND!
+NetVoyagerOne Pretty much the first thing I took off the players when I wanted to run a more down-to-earth campaign (as opposed to the stab-fests we had been running previously).
I guess it's a philosophical question and has much to do with what kind of roleplaying game you want, but once you have dimensional transcendentalism as a commonality is your game still primarily a fantasy or is it primarily a sci fi? Or are you retaining more of the element of fantasy by adopting the style of "The Legend of Zelda Roleplaying Tabletop Roleplaying Game?"
Intuitively, myself, I would prefer to have interdimensional spaces as some sort of rare or singular dramatic McGuffin. I'm not saying that is the only solution for a good game, just what I think would be interesting and would likely suit my tastes, depending on the execution of course.
I've always liked the approach Elder Scrolls games have when it comes to looting fallen enemies, namely that you can take anything (weapons, armor, potions, etc.) that the enemy might have used against you. Obviously, this can screw with game balance due to an overabundance of weapons and armor. Seems like using more realistic encumbrance/carry rules would alleviate this, giving you a valid mechanical reason _not_ to pick up those 8 swords, 7 axes, and incredibly valuable suit of plate armor you found on those bandits you just killed.
I would like to see an RPG that distinguishes between carry weight and carry volume, with the former requiring more strength or endurance while the latter is merely a function of how many pockets, sacks, and backpacks you have, perhaps with a sprinkling of how space efficient you are at packing. This makes me wonder how encumbrance would differ between items worn/equipped versus those in your pack. For example, worn armor would obviously use no volume, and I'd think the effect of the weight would be reduced when worn versus when carried in a pack due to being more evenly distributed over your body and closer to your center of mass. The question would be how much.
Some items, like gauntlets or boots, might actually [effectively] weigh more when when worn as they would be further from your center of mass than they would be in a backpack, and would specifically weigh down your limbs, slowing you down and tiring you out. Try holding even a light weight in your hand with your arm stretched out for even a few minutes, it's not easy.
I love the Elder Scrolls games, and I feel this in my bones. My yearning for challenging game play and a certain degree of realism often bangs right up against my nature as a pack rat who wants to hoard all the things. Especially with mods that make more items usable as crafting materials.
There's a reason that recurve composite bows didn't catch on in Europe. These bows were only really popular in places that are very dry. This type of bow was laminated and had horn on the belly. It was glued together with glue that didn't take moisture well. Europe, being notably wetter mainly used self bows or 2 layer laminated bows.
Also, the ancient Japanese use several types of back quivers.
I believe they become popular throughout India after the Mughals introduced them, and South Indian is most definitely not dry by any stretch of the imagination.
My guess as to why they didn't make it big in Western Europe: Central Asian nomads didn't make it that far, and their construction was much more complicated and took a longer time when compared to the longbow so Western Europeans didn't bother with it.
Well, the Europeans made composite constructed crossbow, after coming into contact with those during the Crusades. So I don't think it was that crucial in Europe. Though I'm not sure why they did not adopted the bow. However, we know that the Byzantines (modern day Greece and Turkey), Bulgars and Magyars (modern day Bulgaria and Hungary) all used composite recurve bows.
Though yes, definitely composite bows are affected by wet weathers. Treaties on war against people with such bows (including the Koreans) all advises attacking them during wet weathers.
Xuan Vinh To
Well there were ways to make a composite bow more or less waterproof for most war purpose, this generally involves lacquering the bow as practiced by the Mughals in India and by the Japanese with their yumis. Neither place were particularly rainless, in the case of Japan the precipitation was similar to most places in Western Europe. The composite bows of the Central Asian nomads were so affected by weather because the common glue they used was water absorbent.
I agree that the most likely primary reason for Western Europe's lack of composite handbow use was their lack of mounted archery culture. Most Western European military archers shot on foot, and for this purpose a self bow work just as well as the more costly and difficult to make composite - at least well enough that the extra expense was not judged worthed. Also we should note that the primary missile weapon across much of Medieval Europe was the CROSSBOW, which was primarily of composite construction until the perfection of steelmaking in the 15th century.
John Huang Yeah... Coating the bow in lacquer would protect from moisture, more or less. The Japanese yumi however didn't need to be that well protected from moisture since it was made to be able to get deformed from use and exposure but could then be bent back into shape by a bow craftsman.
I don't think however, that the main reason that composite bows were never popularized in Europe was because they didn't practice mounted archery for warfare. During the crusaders, as +Xuan Vinh To mentioned, Europeans adapted the composite bow while in the middle east but didn't popularize the technology back in Europe.
shade_grey
Well, I am just going with the weight of historical evidence here. The Europeans actually made great use of the composite bow technology a great deal - in their crossbows. Which shows that weather was most likely not a big problem with proper care of a composite bow. The main advantage of a composite weapon - which justified its greater expense and difficulty in manufacture, was its compactness, a great asset for a mounted archer.
For the polearm : if you go on a journey on foot, wouldn't you take a walking stick ? A spear works fine then ! Even Odin told to always take a spear with you when travelling. A halberd might be a bit more cumbersome.
For the axe : either you can take a small hatchet as a tool / secondary weapon attached to your backpack (just like shovels for modern soldiers), or you can secure the edge with a leather protection if you wear is at your belt, althought I don't know how historical would that be.
Remember: Odin is a God :D
A spear has a different weight distribution than a walking stick, but I guess if you are going to travel through a dangerous part of a country, it might double as a less comfy walking stick.
Odin told to always stay close to your weapons in war, because you never know when you need them.
IN WAR. there you have it!
ZiePe Havamal (Saying of Odin the High One) :
"A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need a spear,
Or what menace meet on the road."
It's about travel, not war (having your weapons in war is so obvious that it doesn't need mentionning, does it ?). Travelling with a sword or/and seax at your belt and a spear in hand makes sense. More weapons, as Matt pointed out, would be more a hindrance than a help. And come on, a spearhead is so light that it makes almost no difference to have a spear of a walking staff.
jancello What part of Havamal is that? What I found would be better translated (from the Swedish version I found) into
"From his weapons
A man does not move
On the field a single step;
To unsure is to know
When out on the road
The tip of the spear may be needed"
(Found it from runeberg.org/eddan/se-02.html)
The same part in www.beyondweird.com/high-one.html translates "on the field" as "in the open country".
From what I could read of the original text the last link above is probably the best translation in this conversation.
Just right now I'm setting the rules for a role-play, so for me this video was really helpful and came just in time of great need in any guideline. Thanks a lot. :)
While I would agree that I have abused some role playing game mechanics a fair bit, I would also argue that things aren't really as cumbersome as many want to make them out to be. And much of my opinion is based on a long youth spent outdoors working in Canadian rural regions. We weigh ourselves down a lot in the last few decades with modern bits of kit. Camp stove and fuel? > bit of flint or something and your knife. Weeks worth of canned and dried food? > The squirrel and plants you picked up that afternoon along the way. GPS and maps? > Ask the next farmer which way to go. (Thing burn his farm and steal his goats... They have legs, no need to carry them!)
What a person carries also depends on how many of them are in the group. Where a 5000 man army needs to carry lots of food and resources with them to make do, a dozen or so people may pass by and collect what they need as they go.
Water only gets heavy in a few environments, simply because in most environments you didn't bother carrying much of it at a time. A few cups would be more than enough to get you to the next brook or stream, and unless you're in a really wet environment you would just fill up your water container every time you stepped over a stream.
As for carrying pole arms, I would argue they are less cumbersome than you seem to suggest if you are carrying it on your shoulder and supporting it with one hand. Sure, the new guy doing it is going to annoy a few people because he isn't used to just where the back end is as he is moving around, but this is no different than working on a modern construction site: You learn to look out for the 'new guys', dodge when they're doing something stupid, and tear them a new one for being an idiot. They either learn to watch what they're doing with the pole as second nature, or they don't last long in the group.
Sling part of your kit in a bag looped around it, and now your spear helps you carry your bedding, while still being fairly quick to unshoulder and let the bag slide down the shaft to the ground if you're surprised by something.
When I was a teen I carried a surveyor's rod for some trail work for a summer, and it was easy enough to lug around with all the rest of my kit. It was an old beast of a tool, collapsing down to about 12 feet or so, and heavier than a lot of spears I've handled, but still easy enough to shoulder. I would imagine being able to handle the spear more casually for things like dropping the butt to the ground when you stop would have made it even easier. (And I even led a horse for a bit when one wandered up to us one afternoon, and it was fairly easy to hold both a lead and the rod in one hand, with a good bit of the weight taken by the shoulder. Horse was a little displeased with the arrangement till it figured I wasn't actually going to bonk it in the head however.)
A largish shield isn't exceedingly awkward to carry on the back I've found. I've also found that it can double as a lovely umbrella in less than pleasant weather. Personally I kind of think that the "mid-sized" round shields of the later eras possibly represent more of a refinement in fighting styles as they are easier to move and respond with than their larger cousins. A middle ground between the movement and responsiveness of a buckler and the cover/concealment of a far larger round shield.
The amount of clothes you really carry doesn't need to be excessive while still staying reasonably clean. You would likely want to dress in layers, but only have changes for the underclothes. And as often seen in modern hiking you will stop for the evening, set up camp, and change. The over clothes get a light brushing as needed, and the old under clothes get washed (Along with yourself) and left to dry over night. In the morning you put the over clothes back on (Some of which also doubled as part of your bedding. Possibly even the underclothes you just washed got used as your pillow if you dried them over a fire or something.) stowed the rest of your kit, and headed off again after breakfast. You aren't exactly in a ready state to be presented to a king, but it is more than good enough to get by for a few weeks at a time without much issue.
This is what I love about this channel and others like it. Thinking about the past in logical, realistic ways. Cheers!
Slings! the most convenient kind of ranged weapon there is! easily storable and especially in stony countries: free ammo everywhere!
+Bobby Siecker Assuming, of course, that you have time to run around and collect stones before a fight. If you're planning on finding them DURING a fight, things will not go well for you.
Tiberiotertio Sure, which means you have to carry around a bag of lead bullets. But Bobby Siecker was talking about "free ammo everywhere".
And to be honest, I think slingers make more sense in a battle between armies than in, say, defending oneself against bandits. If there's a big wall of men over there, I don't have to bother aiming very much; if I can get my stone or bullet into that mob, it's bound to hit someone. In smaller-scale combat, more precision is necessary, and my impression is that the sling is not a reliably precise weapon.
Tiberiotertio Practice is necessary for any weapon. Usually, people will only practice until the result is good enough for their purposes. If you're just scaring off predators, it's probably not necessary to hit them.
As for carrying around your ammo, that's something you will have to do if you suspect you might be surprised at any time, but it undermines one of the chief benefits of the sling, which is that it is light and easy to carry. I'm not sure a sling and bag of rocks has a carrying advantage -- or really, any advantage whatsoever -- over a small bow and quiver of arrows.
Tiberiotertio Fair enough. I also would not carry either while just walking around town and doing whatever my business was.
Shepherds used slings to protect the flocks from predators. They probably nailed more than a few, either killing them or driving them off.
I really appreciate this Matt, I run a lot of campaigns where my friends strive for realism. So this was quite nice. Cheers.
I can testify to the drudgery of wearing a full plate harness for too long. I am, in my mind, too old to buy a Halloween costume but I refuse to not dress up. I didn't have work this past Halloween and only one class at school, so I decided in my infinite wisdom to wear my armor, consisting of a gothic plackart and bevor in conjunction with brigandine and boiled leather arm and leg armor over a mail-enforced arming dublet, for a total of 18 hours or so. by god! my waist was killing me were the plackart sat on mu hips, I took the gauntlets off after about an hour because I couldn't do simple tasks, I couldn't drive (for fear of ripping the seat), by the end of the day my shoulders and knees burned whenever I stood up. in short it was awful.
the main reason I wore it so long is it would take my girlfriend (who puts it on me weekly for my reenactment club) 20 minutes to get it off of me, and I would have to walk anyone else through the process step by step. so in the end the above statements were my own fault.
Matt, please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that bows, especially longbows in particular, were mostly transported unstrung to stop the bowstring from stretching and getting wet or damaged and also to stop the bow getting a "set" so reducing the power of it. Were this the case, it would not be possible to transport it slung across the body anyway. Yet another item to be loaded onto the back of that poor horse :-)
J Corbett Yes longbows were, though recurves were often kept string because they were so difficult to get strung in the first place (one treatises describes using pegs mounted in the wall of your house!). This is another reason why the bow holster was invented for recurve bows, to keep them and their string dry when travelling.
scholagladiatoria I saw an unstrung recurve bow once, and I couldn't recognise it as a bow! I DO NOT want to be grabbing one of those if the string snaps...
scholagladiatoria Actually, I cannot confirm that. I have some recurve bows and can be strung easily, and when I check with asian archery members, they all unstring their bows.
The holster were mainly used at war, in campain, in a battle : it was put in the holster to do other things, and it was mainly in horse.
As you said, it is impossible to do more than one thing with one hand, so if you want to put out a sword, or drive your horse with more hability, or simply do anything else, your bow is on it's holster.
Plus, often they used (depending of the timelines and cultures) two bows, for an unknown reasons, and the second bow was always holstered. Some say it if a spare bow since those horse archers were the main weapons of the army, some other says that it was a lighter bow for other purposes.
But bows were strung and unstrung. If you wait a bit, I will try to fetch you some pics.
Here is a scythian vase : "Greek-made electrum vase, from the Kul-Oba kurgan burial near Kerch.". I bring to you scythian representations because I don't do a lot of researches in other steppe cultures archeology.
xenohistorian.faithweb.com/russia/scythian%20warriors_3_kul_oba.jpg
scholagladiatoria
Bow in a holster and what weapons warrior could have with him , picture shows Polish cavalry type "pancerni" :
img22.imageshack.us/img22/9779/seventeenthcenturypolis.jpg
Question: If I had a big wheel of cheese in my backpack, would it block arrows?
Bulsh1tMan Cheddar? maybe, Swiss? only if your lucky.
+Bulsh1tMan not if the cheese is hit in the "mouth of the Pacman"
I'll need conserve to my cheese ration then, until I leave the more dangerous parts of the road...
Are you implying that you can't hunt with a rapier?
+John Smith You can hunt with anything, or nothing. Your success rate however, that is a different matter.
scholagladiatoria I have killed 100% of the deer I have hunted with a rapier.
I admittedly have never hunted deer with a rapier.
+John Smith So 0/0 success rate... would that be 100% or just "undefined?" @.@
Matthew Traver FINE. I've killed an undefined percentage of the deer I have hunted with a rapier. HAPPY NOW?
+John Smith well, it made me chuckle. So yea, I guess I am. :P
I got two points.
One: Traveling in a medieval world would not require a bedroll and enough food for the journey, a big purse filled with coins will do. You are not going to travel through the endless frigging forest that is 300 kilometers in every direction, those forests were by and large gone in western medieval Europe. Grab any old map of France, the Western part of the old HRE or southern England and what you will find is that there is a village about every 2-5 miles. If you are traveling one foot at a normal pace than you could have breakfast in one village, lunch in one of the next few and dinner in the last. Mind you not all of these villages would have a Tavern or an Inn but no farmer is going to turn away five travelers who want to sleep in a barn, have loads of stories on different countries/strange beats etc etc. and a gold coin for food. Need to go to the capital or a big city? You could probably Hitch a ride on a river barge and sleep in a river port every night.
Two: I believe those fancy bow holsters are called Tarqais's
with a gold coin the farmer could probably buy another cow or two!
I wanna add that while you won't need em for going town to town, the bedroll and rations cliche is still relevant if you were exploring and trying to find the location of some old ruins or what have you out in a wilderness.
The more gold you are carrying the more attractive a mark you will be, you better have enough gold to keep some armed men on retainer.
Actually, just having news or stories to tell could be enough to get a meal. There were no newspapers in those days.
Do keep in mind this assumes:
1. You are in friendly territory. Adventurers and mercenaries would sometimes (often) be expected to sneak through enemy territory to carry out their missions.
2. While a 'farmer' would likely be willing to offer you food and place to sleep if you paid well (and assuming you don't look like some riffraff bandits)... keep in mind that 'farmer' likely belongs to a local noble. If you are on good terms with that local noble, sure, he probably won't mind his peasants offering you food and services. However since adventurers and mercenaries may have varying reputation... and could actually be enemy spies, saboteurs, or just bandits... strangers weren't always welcome. And some peasants may refuse to serve you simply because they'd be afraid if their lord will approve.
Though it probably depends on a lot of factors. During peaceful times, strangers may be more welcome, though someone may still want to tax their spendings ;)
I remember reading of hearing that Zulu warriors would have traveled with very little food as they managed to forage so well. Of course this would require a very specific terrain.
And what I understand about documentaries is that English archers would have carried their bows unstrung on their backs inside fabric cover or something with strings on like a rifle sling.
Obviously they had other weapons to deal with surprise attacks.
I like how Tolkien in LOTR mentioned that the reason why Gimli could travel while wearing mail armor was that he was a Dwarf and therefor lot stronger than human.
In the case of missile weapons, let me present another exception in the sling and staff sling. The sling fits in one's pocket, and the staff sling works as a walking stick as well.
The staff sling/spear idea presented by lindybeige covers the idea of this, and it has the knife, the spear, and the sling covered in one general item.
But for some reason the sling was really out of use in most of europe during medieval times. Wonder why though. I use to carry one around whenever I leave the city and when I stumble across some nice round little stones, I launch a few shots :)
ZiePe
Possibly because people were used to using bows to hunt, so they became more popular in general.
There's an even bigger exception that is by far the undeniable king of portable missile weapons:
The pistol...
:P
I've heard that learning to use a sling efficiently takes alot of time, when you compare it to a bow. that might be one of the reasons they went out of fashion.
I'm still pissed that the sling sux in D&D :/
qutini
If spears and slings were as good in D&D as in real life, I'm not sure adventurers would use anything else. XD
The edge of an axe was covered by an axe sheath tied to the head, often made of wood. At least in the viking age. There a good number of finds. Carrying an axe in your belt is no problem at all.
Wouldn't a sling be an ideal weapon for traveling with? Takes up virtually no space, could carry multiples, ammo wouldn't be too tough to find and could be carried relatively easily in bags/pouches. Only downside would be hunting and responding quickly.
right... you would count every single piece of equipment to carry it as light as possible - and then a few bags of stones... That seems practical... The stones should be in quite special shape and weight to be used as projectiles, so you use them effectively with enough force and "stopping power" etc.
definitely - so long as your target isn't wearing heavy armor or carrying a large shield... then you want the arrows lol... on the bright side, if you are traveling light, you may well be able to outrun anyone wearing heavy armor.
There's a reason it's been the favorite weapon of shepherds forever. They have to walk with their flocks day after day, but a small bag of pebbles is enough to drive off predators, and a sling itself weighs almost nothing and fits in a small pockets!
@@utubebgay Honestly, larger sling-stones are MORE effective against armor than many arrows. A rock the size of a small fist falling from the sky will dent any armor you can march in. If that's your helmet, you're lucky if a concussion is all you get, and if it's not your head, you're looking at broken bones and armor that doesn't let you move smoothly anymore.
Iberian armies were using sling-staff troops basically until the invention of flintlocks!
Does that shirt show the evolution of Rambo's knives?
LaughingOwlKiller Yes :-)
Dude, you rule. Really, few people can both deliver that kind of endlessly valuable reference information *AND* manage the delivery in a Rambo's knives shirt. Almost willing to say you won the Internet for today but it's not quite lunchtime here yet, so there might still be challengers. Unlikely though.
scholagladiatoria
Awesome.
LaughingOwlKiller Yep, totally rad.
While in some ways more over the top than any of the rest, John Rambo was the best since first blood. Stallone managed to book end his two franchises with the best movies of those series'
You mean my barbarian with an 18 strength can't really walk around with 4 suits of full plate in his backpack?! Sacrilege!
Nice video man.
I've noticed that this channel has one of the best, nicest comments sections on RUclips. It makes me happy.
what?? I can't carry 15 swords, 8 pole-axes, 4 crossbows and 2 longbows, coupled with 300+ arrows and bolts before I am overencumbered? together with my sneak armour, my close fighting plate armour and my +crit Archer armour? I have been lied to!!
+Ola Johannesson Borge I expected to be able to use twice the amount you mentioned. >:( What trickery is this? I want a refund.
You both should have spent more attribute points on strength on your recent level-ups...
And did you forget to pick up that bottomless bag from that highwayman a few miles back?
Noobs!
Another option is to use quest-related gear. That stuff is usually weightless. Just never hand it in. The quest-givers won't mind waiting until it has served its purpose on your countless adventures. ... Or until you find even better quest-related gear and find yourself in need of a couple of quest rewards. Such as to purchase the next inventory space upgrade.
Remember that if you enchant and add a bunch of little pockets, you could carry an additional 15 swords with you, you can basically set up shop with what you can carry alone and would still have enough capacity to bring an entire workshop, everything's possible if you abide by the realms of impossible space
It gets worse in sci-fi. Every "survival" game claims you can always build a house, a car or a spaceship with the stuff lying in your pockets. Most of them don't even give you a backpack.
In a recent discussion about one of them, somebody mentioned the player character can carry 50000 cubic metres of steel and still float in water.
On the large shield note, I started thinking about roman/hellenic troops, who traditionally (to my limited knowledge), had their infantryman carry most/all of his equipment and living kit. For most legionaries this included some type of really large heavy shield, and metal torso protection (lighter obviously, although their mail shirts were still heavy), so it can't have been too inconvenient to carry around kit (possibly minus food as they had a baggage train) and shield.
Travelling around Europe I think would largely depend on solo vs group travel. With a group you can potentially divvy up the living kit into a tent (which houses multiple) and pot (which cooks for multiple). In a military group setting, I think a cart for the companies polearms and large weapons of war would not be out of the question, leaving the kit and sidearms to the individuals.
Lastly on the bedding note, a heavy cloak/coat was probably mans best friend in europe, doubling as a blanket and mattress, so 'wearable bedding' I guess. Spare clothes and a bedroll are probably luxury items in a medieval sense (perhaps a merchant/civilian would bother with them).
Interesting video though, love the channel.
In addition to their baggage train, the Romans had 2 slaves and 1 pack animal for every 8 soldiers.
You should add that you simply can't transport a bow with bowstring on - longer than maybe hour ;)
And backquiver were quite popular in hunting to be honest - I spent 6 hours in forest yesterday with backquiver without any problem. But quiver on the belt is definetly better in case of the rain for sure - its much easier to shield arrows with your cloths then ;)
A series of videos on advice on aspects of medieval gear and life would be pretty cool, especially if geared towards roleplayers and writers. There's so many misconceptions accepted as fact in fictional works that it's hard to be authentic.
"You cannot fast travel while over encumbered."
Great video. I recall a line from the GURPS roleplaying game's description of sollerets (articulated plate armor for the feet): "Extremely uncomfortable, except in combat." Cheeky, but it gets the point across!
Could you use a bow staff as a walking stick, then string it when you need it?
Secondarily, about back quivers, would the AC1 idea work, with throwing knives held in the right shoulder quiver?
Finally, as you mentioned having people to help you, I'm reminded of something 5th edition DnD does. Nobles get to have three retainers travelling with them, to cook and clean and dress them, as you suggest would be helpful
Thanks for that. I'm a keen roleplayer and that was massively interesting. A lot of it kind of matched up to what I thought but there were things in there that I hadn't considered previously. Really good video.
maybe a strange question
how had the roman legions handled that travelling problem, when they were on march?
i mean they have to carry a lot of equipment, weapons and huge shields.
were there auxiliary units, who helped them?
horses or other pack animals?
a fleet of wagons?
how worked their logistics?
any ideas
I'm not an expert, but can offer a couple of points. Soldiers on campaign are a little different from what Matt's talking about. Their purpose is to engage in combat, so the kit they need to do that job is of prime importance. Different armies in different periods used all the things you mention, and furthermore would forage along the route.
Legionaries apparently called themselves "Marius' Mules" after his reforms, one of which required them to carry their own kit so as not to clutter up the column with pack animals or carts, which could slow it down considerably.
An excellent book covering such things in great detail is Engels' "Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army":
www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520042728
Well afaik (and there is actually a lot of literature about that, maybe check wikipedia). They had to carry their own armor and weapons. They had even a long wooden stick with a cross shaped end to carry over their shoulder and hang stuff on. Here is one objection I have to make against Matt's statements: He generalises a bit too much (generally speaking ;)) When you train carrying around a lot of staff, you will be able to carry around a bit more then the average person. I dont say that you could go on a Marco Polo-esque voyage wearing plate armor and a pike and a longbow in one hand whilst steering your horse and reloading your handgun with the other hand, but as for the roman soldier eg., he was trained to be a transport donkey. I'm still astonished how much they could carry on their own. Maybe that was also a key feature to roman military success: Being more nimble due to a smaller baggage train. And I'd wager that later (medieval) armies didnt have this kind of training auto sufficiency... Mongols being an exception of course ;)
I don't know in this case, but allmost every army requires support troops that bring food, water and gear but is not fit for direct confrontations.
In the context of the 30years war it is known that entire families followed the path of the mercenaries carrying the food etc. They were also the ones that were feared for torturing and looting once a city became conquered.
edi
For sure, but the if the ratio of fighting troops vs support troops is in more in favour of the aforementioned, that means your army is generally less vulnerable and you just have less people running around, needing to be organized.
there's a series called conquest with I think his name is Peter Woodward, which explains your question in detail. Long story short, Romans worked in units of depending on the period about 8 men, which were given one donkey to help them carry stuff, they could disribute some of their gear, for example their tend, but in the end, they had to carry a lot of stuff.
Great informative video! I'm amazed that you can talk continuously, and coherently with great points 20 minutes with no notes.
About the long bow, I've always assumed during travel/march the bow must be unstrung and stored in your back pack or horse. I don't think it's a good idea keeping the bow strung all the time when travelling just in case of a bandit attack or something.
well, if you've got enough money for full steel plate armor then you may very well be wealthy enough to have multiple horses, and thus more stuff
Good to see this. I was visiting the Wallace collection yesterday, and was reflecting what an absolute pain polearms would have been to carry around. They were seriously big and heavy. If you are moving from one place to another with a polearm, that's your job, basically acting as part of the wagon train. On the subject of which, don't forget carts and wagons, which definitely are pictured moving shields and bits of armour from place to place.
Holsters for Bows did exist in Europe. During medieval times primarily in Hungary. When the renaissance starts almost all Polish cavalry (well it's missile part) turns from using crossbows towards bows, by 1514 and battle of Orsha there is no crossbowmen in Polish military they all changed to bows or guns. I don't know how quivers for bows are called in Hungarian or other languages but in Polish its "łubia" and together with arrows quiver they form "sajdak" or "sahajdak"
That works well to transport short recurve eastern bows. A bit more difficult with a 2m longbow :D
jancello It is strange that there was no holster for medieval hunting bows. They were less long and often smaller than recurve oriental bows.
Hungarians used recurve bows. Their military mostly consisted of horse archers (at least when they invaded Eastern Europe - after they settled in the Carpathian basin, crossbows became more popular) Btw quiver in Hungarian is called "tegez".
jancello true but not all bows in Europe were long bows, Roman army had recurve bows and so on.+Frost Blast true, Poles did learn a lot from Hungarians there is saying in Polish "Pole and Hungarian are two brothers both in saber and in glass(drinking)"
To be fair a lot of medieval era RPG’s have what is called the bag of holding which is basically a bag that you can hold a semi infinite amount of things in like a small rooms worth of stuff and it only weighs 10 pounds and that’s a common magic item or relatively common like any adventuring party probably has one and it lets you carry about 5000 pounds of stuff so that solves one issue it also calls the object that you’re looking for to it you just have to know that it’s in there
With respect to axes, presumably they had leather pouchy scabbardy things to cover the head, just as many tool hatchets nowadays have?
In a lot of fantasy stories the heroes often wrap up in their cloaks at night (something I've also heard tell of highlanders doing with their big long tartan blanket-toga things). How accurate would that be?
Lastly, with respect to holding a polearm and leading a horse at the same time - you can just wrap the reins around your hand then hold the shaft of the weapon and still have a hand free for munching your food or whatever. Admittedly this could go poorly if something makes the horse bolt, but as a modern day example sometimes things can go poorly when holding coffee, or a mobile phone, while driving a car, but people still do it...
I think a pretty analagous historical setting to consider are the Conquistadors in the New World. Fairly small groups, by comparison to actual armies of the period, covering a lot of ground and concerned with the aquisition of treasure. Yes the period falls into the gray area of Late Medieval to Early Modern era, but in terms of the weapons primarily used they are essentially the same as roleplaying games in the fantasy mold. They did carry polearms, but primarily swords and bucklers. The armor they had was primarily breastplates and helmets. Just a thought...
YoU HAVE PLATE ARMOR!? AND YOU HAVEN'T SHOWN IT YET!? THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!?
...I think he has a few videos showing it getting fitted...
I'm digging the new intro logo Matt! Glad to see you took the community input on your video editing software video.
13:40 "exception" quickly followed by "mongol"... remotely reminds me of something.
+scarfacemperor
Roll the Mongoltage!
+scarfacemperor That one episode where Hank implies swords to be weapons of war, accompanied by an image of medieval armies, all but a forest of spears.
+AVMUploads Dah! Dah-dah! Dah-dah! (Mongoltage)
Why let a few Mongols get in the way of a good crusade...
Redman Allen If I recall correctly, a Mongol king actually tried to convince the Europeans to start a crusade sometime after the end of the last official one. He was Buddhist, I think. I always found that story interesting, but I can't remember any of the details.
Great video! Interesting food for thought. Assuming that I was traveling with at least a wheel barrow; above and beyond regular camping gear, I would travel with a well made gambeson with jack chains on the arms, a sleeveless mail shirt, a helmet, thick gloves, a buckler, a small knife, a small hatchet, a sword with a complex hilt like a side sword, a spear and a sling. Heavy in a barrow but feasible I think. A horse cart would be better but you have to feed the horse. A pair of strong goats to pull the cart might be better. They can forage easier even in winter and if you have to help push the cart up hills or through mud, well boo hoo. A block and tackle and stout rope is handy for unsticking carts but would also add to the overall weight of the thing day in day out.
this is why you need a bag of holding +1 ;)
With a village in it, featuring a blacksmith , a wizard tower and all of the necessities for your travelling wizard , battlemage or demigod. Miniature giant space hamster optional.
Ew, no. Handy Haversack and a Quiver of Ehlonna, all the way. It's much easier to retrieve gear that way. :P
Another missile weapon in the early medieval period that might be more practical would be the sling or Scottish sling stick. Light, compact, good for hunting. (so long as the woods aren't too dense)
Wouldn't a long cloak work as bedding?
+Cal6009 It would certainly help. But, you need insulation under you and above you. If you make a bed of boughs or dead grass it can insulate your body from the ground (which will suck your body heat out like a starved vampire drinking your blood) A cloak is helpful, but, most would carry a second blanket to go over the grass or what have you. If you want more info look at some bushcraft videos on using wool blankets, because they use blankets as cloaks too sometimes.
Another very good video on the full story of choosing which weapons and gear you carry. Thanks!
Did people carry multiple blades? I can only think of Sikhs and a few people today that depend on being fast with the knife.
The problem with a weapon is that you have to be able to draw it in time. If you get surprised you might have to draw the dagger instead of the sword to save time. Both could be impossible if someone grabs our right hand (or you get bitten there). Thus some people also have a blade that can be drawn with the left hand, or one that they could draw when they are on the back and someone on top of them (e.g. a boot knife).
Have you ever tried to get at a boot knife when lying on your back and pinned down? It's an absolute nightmare.
About the only time they're convenient to access (as opposed to convenient because they're hard to spot) is when you're sitting down in a chair. Otherwise they're miles away from your hands.
A dagger worn at the hip can be drawn fairly easily with either hand, either way up. Until you start going for modern-style combat knives carried upside-down near the shoulder, there's not many more convenient places than around the belt area.
Tea Kew
you can draw a bootknife when your legs are bent and standing. When yomeone is on top he will probably not even see you drawing it and you can backstab him. Of course this wont work, when hes pinned or got an armbar.
Canadian frontiersman typically carry a tomahawk and three knives, one in the belt, one in the boot and one strung around the neck. Although only the belt knife was meant as a killing tool, the other two were small utility tools.
Well we can look at a few finds for a few data points. The Bocksten man was carrying two knives for example, and if you look at archeological reports for other bog finds and sites such at Visby and the Mary Rose you can probably find more concrete answers. I carry two for my living history impression and a case can easily be made for three. I have a utility knife and a dagger. Other options would be an eating knife or another sort of working knife that is particularly suited for the trade of the individual. I don't feel that having hidden knives would be much of a priority for these people. The fact is everyone could be assumed to be armed all times and if you want more protection, it was more worthwhile to carry a buckler and sword or other systems Matt talks about than to hide a short blade.
Great Rambo tee shirt . always insightful breakdowns. for a Yank who may carry a kuhkri in the woods during hunting season besides my rifle; its always interesting to consider the daily kit of men at arms . thanks again for the great show
The best armor that fits in a small box: Yoroi (Samurai armor)
PS: if your poor horse carries the armor, food and the water, who carries the horses water? -I believe a horse requires 10x more than a human...
Horses can go longer than humans without water, so they could drink when reaching a stream or lake or something. A human needs water on the go.
Also, a human is a little more sensitive about water cleanliness than horses, limiting his potential sources or forcing him to boil it - not very practical when you're on the road and thirsty.
JustGrowingUp
I only knew that it was a big problem in the crusades.
edi Yeah, but they were in a very arid environment. Also, most of the crusades were quite poorly organized, and pretty much a logistical nightmare.
If you want a good example of horse logistics, take the Mongol invasions. :)
edi
Well technically a mail hauberk is even easier to store, you could roll it up into any shape you want. ;)
Most knights had 3 horses, one for traveling called palfrey with a gait suitable for long distance traveling, a destrier for battle and tournaments that were too valuable for simple travel in case they got injured, and a rounsey for the squire that serves them. Plate armor, weapons, clothing, and provisions can easily be carried between three horses. Either way there were towns nad villages along the roads and when traveling in the deserts people usually do it as part of caravan.
where am I going to carry my 10k+ gold coins now :)
theandkamen Put it in a bank?
Your magical money sack of course. What do you think bags of holding are for?
Clearly you store it in a really big chest in a giant underground cave, guarded by a small army of Skeletons and Zombies. Maybe a nest of giant cave spiders if you're feeling extra paranoid but those things really make a mess of the place with all their webbing.
Banks are for suckers.
That's why jewelry exists. It's essentially money that you wear on your body.
I agree with Orkar Isber. In many roleplay games (computer/table/live action - doesn’t matter) the main purpose of leaving a town is not to get somewhere else, but to fight and kill. So, in such cases you should compare adventurers not with a pilgrim, but with a soldier on a battlefield. If you do not have suitable armor and weapons you will likely not live long enough to prepare food, have a rest or do any other ordinary hiking things.
Another point (maybe as idea for future videos) - need for weapons variety. Swords are pretty effective against human brigands - that’s good. But if you run high risk of encountering giant ogres, or super armored giant tortoises, or small creatures who hunt in large packs, or mages who shoot lightning from distance, etc. - you will need something which is at least more or less effective in all these situations. That is definitely more than one or two weapons.
So, if you have to sacrifice movement speed, comfort, extra supplies, change clothes, etc. just to be able to survive in inevitable numerous battles - you will do it. Of course, main unrealistic thing is that humans simply cannot exist in such dangerous world for significant time. But my main point is - adventurers are not travellers, they are fighters who carry only the necessary minimum of things not related to combat.
13:40 MONGOLIANS; THE EXCEPTION!!
If anyone watches Hank Green on Crash Course History, you would catch that. Haha!
I was just re-watching this and had a thought, although you've covered it (although not in this context, I think it was mentioned). Weapons laws. I haven't played a pen and paper RPG in 14 or 15 years, but when I did, that was always a good way to suddenly make "weak" enemies serious. Seeing as how RPG skill sets tend to be very specific, those angry youths with cudgels and daggers can suddenly be a serious threat if your man hasn't got plate and a pollaxe anymore.
The game I played was a point-buy system, not class based. Knowing they weren't gonna stroll into a city ready for a pitched battle, it made them seriously consider sticking a few precious points into unarmed combat or knife skills.
why dont you ever show us your plate armor ?
Thank you so much. Nowhere beyond Lindeybeige have I found practical, informed information like this.
i hope somebody in Taleworlds watches this video D=
I always role-play that part. My character only wears normal clothes (or gambeson), and puts its armor only before a battle. But it is a great idea for a mod. To automatically change your normal everyday gear to your "war gear" before a battle.
JuliusAkavirius And if you were ambushed while marching or resting, the game will roll a dice to determine in what condition you were attacked. So depending on your luck you could be forced in a fight naked.
Just have to wait until Thursday. Yes, yes... Thursday is the day. Next Thursday, yes. It's not far out now. Not at all, no, no, just the next Thursday.
Really great video Matt, super interesting and something relatable for many of us! Fun stuff.
Melee scrubs. Stop clanking about, play a Wizard
Thank is for this video Matt. As always facts are often quite different to fantasy. A lot of this I get from GoT and remember the guy being given to Brianna as a Page. Had to set up her fire at night, cook her tucker, rub down the horse,sorted out the bedding and clothes etc... And now I know that he would also have had to clean up her armour and sort out her weapons (Sword)... LOL, great like... ;-}
thumbs up if you thought the thumbnail was some kind of mech
Good Video!, I'm all in for Realism when it comes to Role-Play. I think one of the main reasons that many of this things are not present on games or any other type of medieval whatever.. it's because keeping track of all the variables becomes really hard, I play World Of Darkness: Vampire - Dark Ages, I'm currently the Game Master and it's really difficult to keep track of everything, so I'm making a web application to help me on that regard :3 because I think that adding all the bits and pieces creates a more immersive experience.
Hmm, if I were an adventurer with a horse, then my equipment will probably be:
On person:
- Helmet
- Brigandine or mail, with plate greaves and gauntlet (probably not too heavy and restrictive).
- Sword and buckler.
- Composite bow or crossbow (depending on my strength) and quiver.
On horse:
- a bec de corbin, or poleaxe type weapon: longer than a sword, shorter than a spear or halberd. For anti-armor use.
- a larger shield, say for when I need to take cover from arrow attacks.
- a stick. Could serve as a walking stick, quarterstaff and to extend the reach of my poleaxe, turning it to a halberd-like weapon, for anti-cavalry use. There are records of long pikes (like Alexander's sarissa) being transported in 2 halves.
Hi Matt
I have my own take on it, If you would indulge me for a moment. Much of what you said I agree with, though there are some points that occurred to me whilst watching I wish to share with you.
You mentioned carrying A sword as a sidearm - While I see no issues with carrying a sword, I would imagine that while "Adventuring" (From my own experience camping) you would want to carry an axe as well even if just for chopping wood.
Shield, I agree about not wanting to carry anything much bigger than a buckler or Targe, If you are going on an adventure as opposed to going out looking to engage some enemy or dastardly deed.
Armour - I agree with your suggestion of a Brigandine though having worn simple maille as a Live role playing and re-enacting events I'm not sure that I'd want to carry it with me on a simple adventure.
Would you want too, or even be able to carry a Polearm by the time you are carrying everything else you'd need to survive for a week or so, as well as have some room for "Loot" - No, I dont think you would.
A small bow would be a boon, but for hunting a sling would be equally as useful against small game, though I would take both.
Much of the pots and pans, a blanket or two comb flint and steel and food would start getting bulky, and I think by the time you have finished packing all of this you would look more like a prospector than Coman, but it is still there, one way or another.
Travelling frum Londom to Dublin, on mid 13 hundreads. Maybe running from the plague, or to sell Spaniard/Portuguese literature translations, i'd simply pack my mule with basics of living(bed,foodwear,lamp and what have you), on the other side my merchandise, i'd wear a simple gambezon and maybe if i had the money to buy, or inheritted it, a suit of mail. I'd carry a handy sling on my pocket (most under-rated utencil ever, and a great topic for future videos) for gathering and self defence, a sidesword and a buckler or targe. And my all-trusty situational awareness.
Oh, and hope to the gods that the Sawney Bean isn't around :D
Did you just forget your chaos two hander and grass crest shield? What are you, a casul?
But... wouldn't Dublin be the actual place a man would get such a sword?
Also, i tried to glue a pach of grass to my buckler but people tought i was crazy
i just yelled at them STA-MIN-A BONUUUUS
Quivers were not used in medieval times (from my understanding). Instead, arrows were kept in "arrow bags" which were made from waxed linen, and included a separator at the top to keep the fletchings from rubbing together, and also a top flap to keep out rain, etc. For more on the subject, I'd recommend "Longbow: A Social and Military History" by England's own Robert Hardy.
I spent the first 3 minutes distracted by the evolution of the Rambo movie knives on your shirt..... It took about that long for me to remember "Huh, I'll be damned. Those are Rambo's blades from the Rambo series of crappy action flicks". I then had to go back to the beginning so I could pay attention to what you were saying, because that is why I clicked on this. I have been attempting to write some fantasy sort of stories and wanted a realistic account of what was reasonable to carry. While with fantasy you can get away with pretty much anything you want there should still be some hard and fast rules, such as how much one can carry and what sort of things they would carry.
I would like to write some fantasy stories so this is very helpful for me. Having specific details right makes the stuff that is done imaginary on purpose seem more believable.
Thanks a bunch.
One may also think they need a lot of fantasy RPG’s they know what vanadium is and mix it into all of their steel thereby allowing them armor that never rusts and I assume this may be an enchantment on any master work gear to just make it comfortable
Bedding 2 wool blankets, reindeer hide, pine boughs surrounded by logs in a lean-to fashion and covered with more pine boughs, moss , what have you . Fire with a heat wall to radiate heat toward lean-to.
Great points about full plate, typically 45mins or so with assistance to get in and out of full plate. Gambeson with leather armor and/or riveted chainmail with constant supply of oil, two horses perhaps, one as a pack mule, the other battle ready while on the move.
I take it my guy running around in full plate carrying a long bow and a halbert would be the craziest bastard ever
I love this topic! Thank you))
Also, you should show your armour, I really want to see you in it
Good video, thanks for the ideas. One thing about pole arms, is that they are sort of like a staff, as such they are easily carried on foot. Ive done some backpacking, and like to carry a staff. It is nice to walk with, and if you need to do something with both hands, you can set it against a tree or rock. But quite nice, and thought provoking video.
Thanks for another very informative and useful presentation. You've helped clarify some key points for a fantasy novel I'm writing. Games like Skyrim make it possible to travel in heavy armour all the time, but even immersive mods don't really take the issues you raise into account.
The targes you mentioned would be a late-16th, 17th, 18th century thing. There is some contention that depictions of round shields on medieval Scottish grave slabs are in fact bucklers rather than targes.
As far as what a medieval Scot would have worn on the road goes...I imagine a medieval Scot on the road would have his side arm with a dagger maybe, wearing an aketon (light protection and warmth), maybe a helmet and maille, as well as a mantle (which could double as bedding), some kind of rucksack with his miscellaneous kit, MAYBE a bow or javelins (but packed away). It seemed common amongst Gaels in Ireland and Scotland to be lightly armoured.
Thank you for making this video! I run roleplaying games using the Pathfinder system, and your advice really helps me create my own rules to make up for all the bull that the system has written. At this point, I'll probably end up making my own system!
Daggers and Longswords have the same reach... what is this world coming to...
So a follow on post; my ideal kit, let me know what you think:
Armour: As you said, some kind of light armour. Potentially some kind of gambeson, or perhaps some kind of brigandine. For long term travel though I’d prefer straight cloth armour, since it is light effective, and easy to repair if needs be. Which with the frequency your average Adventurer is out pillaging, getting eaten by a dragon, and then resurrected would be fairly often I should think. Some kind of helmet, my preference would be some kind of kettle hat as it might help keep the sun/rain off?
Missile Weapon: Sling & Bullets. Nice and light, still can kill all but the heaviest armoured opponents. Missile weapons I think would be particularly useful for a adventurer since effectively they are hunters of a kind and I would not want to try an engage in melee with any wild animal magical or not. That said it might not be necessary in a magical setting where thrown spells might prove more useful in the long run.
Melee Weapons: Well swords are an obvious choice in this regard, but just to be different maybe a staff? It might give you better reach over a sword armed opponent, be inconspicuous, and possibly act as a shield against certain weapons (mainly spears or lances where attacks are linear). Buckler & Knife can also make for a inconspicuous and effective combo. No need to pick fights with the locals while you are on your way to storm the Castle by waltzing around armed and dangerous looking.
Love this topic :) If you plan to live in the wilderness for any length of time, you need to have a decent axe anyway. Of course, an axe without shield might not be the best weapon...You can easily carry a shorter bow in a sleeve on your back, or attached to your pack. That's how I carry my Kassai bow (although I rarely carry it around). You could also stick your bow and arrows in your bedroll. Just some thoughts...
Videos like this, that compare reality to games, are really great. Alot of folks (including me) have pretty much no knowledge of experience with medieval weaponry or even modern weaponry, and so our only knowledge of them is in the concept of games. I would imagine this is why you are getting alot of strange questions like this.
Really enjoyed this video. Especially the bit about armor. The one part that I think you should have talked about, full plate (to be put on properly) can not be donned by one's self. The other reason you had a squire. Not just to take care of and transport the plate mail, but also to put you in it.
Oh Matt, a man after my own heart. I am an avid DnD 3.5 player, and I play some PF, too. :3
I wouldn't be surprised if travellers carried a hatchet and a quaterstaff. The hatchet for firewood and the staff for difficult terrain (swamps, gravel; very uneven and slippery ground). Today even when we walk in the countryside we hardly ever see what difficulties ancient travellers faced.
I'm not sure if many people has played or heard of this, but there is a Pen and Paper Role-playing system called The Riddle of Steel that addresses this and various other aspects of realism in it's rules. Encumbrance is enforced to keep things sensible, as just as you said Matt if you have one large object to carry around expect to have less of everything else. The system's combat is also very detailed and overall it's one of the only (if not the only) system that is approved my the Association of Renaissance Martial Arts.
Great info and thought provoking, thanks for the video.
A note about wearing a bow across your back. with a modern longbow you can unstring one end and slide the unstrung portion of the string down the arm of the bow. doing this keeps the other end from dragging, and would prevent the pressure on the chest you are talking about. important note: i don't know if this would work with a historic bow because I don't own one to try.
Thank you for this video ! It is full of good ideas and informations !
If ever you feel to do the same kind of thing for other timelines (like Victorian, XVIIIth century, etc), especially with the concepts of laws, what was tolerated, accepted, etc, what was found in cities, or in travel, etc, it would be really great too.
Thanks again, I will share this video to some roleplayers friends of mine whith whom I play frequently :)
I have a preference of rapiers and cut & thrust swords and have thought a lot about this. One reason is the high frequency of monsters and large humanoids, thus you want big durable weapons. The longsword being the perfect choice a lot of the time. You average enemy in an RPG is not an unarmoured human.
Heh, you figured it out regarding the large shields. Works perfectly if you got a mount.
+angelowl89 And a polearm ain't that cumbersome if you use it as a walking stick. A tad bit heavy but doable.
+angelowl89 That's what I was thinking. And most people who carried spears as primary weapons usually also had axes or large knives as backup.
Awesome information, very helpful, tank you!
So Link. Arming sword, heater shield, boomerang, tunic and hood for warmth, small but strong recurve bow and quiver, a few small items and rupies that would fit in a small belt bag or hand bag, and a magic ring that protects like armor but is far more comfortable to wear. Even with links boots, gauntlets, and mail he's sometimes depicted with, I think most fighting shape humans could easily run around all day with this setup.
I agree with most of what you said in the video on bucklers and shields for sort of every day wear, but on the subject of adventuring or campaigning I have some experience which make me disagree with some of your points and have insight into others.
I do a 12th c living history portrayal of a foot soldier without that pack animal and frequently go out with a small group with only this equipment, covering some miles both on and off trails. I carry a large center grip shield at all times. It is the width of my shoulders and as high as my knee to my shoulder, so about 24" by 42". I carry it with a guige which simply has one end looped on the grip and the other goes over my shoulder. The shield comfortably is suspended near by hip and does not interfere with walking. It can either be ignored altogether or used as an arm rest. It certainly weighs a couple pounds, but isn't nearly as encumbering on a march as a modern machine gun from personal experience.
I honestly haven't weighed all of my gear all together, but my estimate of armor (gambeson and conical helmet), weapons (large shield, spear, axe, dagger), food for a couple days, water bottles, and bedroll with sundries is about 25kg. These are the minimum things needed for a march, no tent to weigh me down and it's completely do-able. If I add the two man tent I've made, there is a significant increase in weight and bulk that would require splitting loads with a partner or using a pack animal.
My solution for carrying my axe is to tuck it into my bedroll which is then carried on my back. That and a little leather cover keeps the edge away from my squishy bits and allows a fairly ready draw by just reaching back if need be. I also carry a seven foot spear, which is of course immediately ready.
As far as wearing non-plate armor for extended periods, I'd also mention cloth armor. I have worn my heavy gambeson for nearly a week on end, just taking it off when camping for the night. It's not comfortable of course, but it was manageable in temperatures as high as 37C and down to freezing as long as it is dry.
Here's a picture of the gear I'm describing. I have the shield flipped around, usually I keep the tail down on the flats but around the rocks it was more convenient to have it up and not banging into rocks. www.dropbox.com/s/h1ogsfh42tuzk6j/2013-09-30%2016.37.09.jpg?dl=0
deadextra I do a 15th Century archer from the Wars of the Roses myself, and I completely agree with you on cloth armor. I'll wear a padded jack and I find that it can be heavy and somewhat uncomfortable, but I can stay in it for long periods if I so chose. Its also quite warm with all those layers, as opposed to metal armor which sucks away heat from your body. It also provides far better protection than people seem to realize. I tried thrusting my longsword through a 30 layer padded jack as it lay on the ground and failed to get in far enough to cause more than a superficial wound. It would probably save you from most arrow hits as well, particularly if the bow isn't all that high powered.
Out of curiosity, what impression is yours? It looks like Italo-Norman to my eyes but I could be wrong.
Yes, I do a Siculo-Norman impression. I'm working on a project to test gambesons in depth but that will be published in its own right.
deadextra I'd certainly be interested in seeing the results. I'm probably going to be making a similar padded tube and yoke armor for a 3rd Century BC Greek impression I am working on and may want to use your findings in its making.
I've always been interested in the Siculo-Norman era, if you have any more pictures or a group website I'd love to see them.