So, you're asking for future video suggestions? I got one. A video about Widebody tables, the history behind them, and how big they are compared to normal pinball machines.
Interesting to hear the vibrations are causing the LEDs to fail sooner. I was expecting LEDs to vastly outperform regular lightbulbs in longevity, and the only issue being to find the right brightness/color when replacing. If vibrations are such LED-killers, that might also explain why I often see cars with failing LED head/tail lights, as these get to experience a lot of shakes and bumps too, during use.
Great information and great to hear you mention Hankin too...as I have The Empire Strikes Back and was advised also to stick with traditional globes over LED globes for this machine👍
There are siegecraft boards now for older machines so you can LED them without ghosting or flickering. I did that to my 1979 Stern Magic and it looks beautiful.
Mark thank you for this insight. I am still thinking over changing some bulbs for LEDs on my Stellar Wars and Fire Power and Space Invaders as these machine the old sockets are rusting. You give me a good reason to come and see you soon to look more at changing to LED or getting new sockets for the older bulbs. Great Video too.
Certainly, just let me know when you'd like to come by. If you have rusty intermittent lamp sockets you will have to repair or replace them for either LEDs or bulbs to work properly. Thanks, Mark
Great video with plenty of good points. I will also add these points, from experience with older games that have had LEDs swapped in and my three decades of experience working with and on these games, and as a long time player. First, all pinballs originally designed using incandescent bulbs run the lamp circuits on AC. This means the LEDs strobe at 60hz. This ruins gameplay and can present a real danger to some people sensitive to this strobing. Recently, a local establishment had a young man experience a seizure due to this strobing. He can play most any pinball game without problem, but the LED strobing was the issue. Second, luminescence is almost always off by a large margin - usually the game is blindingly bright. Third, color temperature always tends to be way off and people have this tendency to use colored LEDs for GI circuits or "mod" the color scheme of a game with colored LEDs. Please for the love of all that is good, don't do this. The colder tint of LEDs is harder on the eyes. Fourth, light shows. Many light shows are designed with bulb fade time in mind for light show effects. LEDs are instant on and instant off, so light shows lose their impact. There is a pinball show that I attend each year and it is amusing to watch how many games that have been retrofitted with LED wind up failing during the show due to the factors you mention. These circuits are designed with certain current loads in mind and altering them is causing all sorts of failures during the show. Keeps the parts vendors happy though! Now, games designed for LED, with DC circuits, sure. In fact, Spooky's Total Nuclear Annihilation is an amazing game with some really awesome lighting effects with its DC RGB LEDs. I will continue to run incandescent lamps in my older games. They are much easier on the eyes, don't give headaches or cause other problems because of the strobing and play is smoother and the machines are solid and reliable.
I recently converted a 1978 Bally Lost World to all LED lighting. I made most of the general illumination yellow in the playfield. I installed a new driver board as well for function lights. The game looks and functions great and now operates "cool" ending any heat issues from the power supply board.
Machines that we're designed for incandescent bulbs often look terrible when fitted with LEDs. Quite apart from the colour difference, the thermal inertia causes a pleasing fade up/down that many game designers exploited to good effect.
The two big advantages with LED is that they are individual adressable from just one wire, and that they can change colour. All new produced pinball-tables should only have one and the same cheap board controlling all the lights, this would make for replaceability and cost effectiveness both for the producer and also for customers.
Hi Mark. You ask for suggestions for future videos. In one of your videos, you show the "wear" on rubbers and flippers. Maybe you could make a video on how to renew or rebuild a set of flippers to get rid of the sloppiness and excessive end play. At the same time you could also show how to replace or clean rubbers. Thanks with regards from Simo :-)
Suggestions? OK... There's a Led Zeppelin video game out there, and I would LOVE to see someone playing it! I've see a photo of it, but you can't really see much in it. :)
Hi Mark. My suggestion for a video is troubleshooting pop bumpers. In the videos I've seen they just happen to have the answer. I'd be interested in more the logic of determining issues. (In my case the bumper registers a hit but doesn't bump. Also another issue on my list is working out magnasave issues (Goldeneye). How do you test the circuits and troubleshoot? I noticed a fuse was out and when I replaced the the magnet board started to smoke! :O Tips and hints on troubleshooting circuits would be great. Thanks. Go Tigers! Go Storm! (lost you now!?!) :)
It's a good tune created in the 80s' by a small group of student musicians and composers especially for use promoting the features of a new game I debuted at a trade show.
G'Day Mark. I noticed your video is around 5 years old. I was looking at maybe buying a 1980 year Bally that has updated to led lights. Are the newer LED's better than from 5 years ago? It does look more sharper than the original bulbs. You mentioned about it could be hard to replace them when broken in the future. I have heard this can be a problem just in general home or commercial buldings .Thanks in advance..
The only major change since this show is there are more LED manufacturers and with that there are many more low quality LEDs on the market. People buy based on price assuming all LEDs are of the same quality, the fact is they are not. Today in 2023 it's even harder to find decent quality LEDs at a reasonable price. For Pinballs 70's and 80's pinballs my advice remains the same, some brands and games have lighting problems when you install LEDs so I don't recommend them unless you know of an LED that will function properly and last much longer than the original bulbs.
Almost 5 years late for me but still a completely relevant and highly informative video. Thank you! Question: Do you think that older machines have problems with LEDs due to a much lower (almost non-existent) resistance than incandescent? Just a thought from a pinball fan but technical noob.
A low current draw from LEDs means they have a HIGHER resistance. This can still cause problems, e.g. from dimmers, why are tuned for a lower resistance. Also these replacement LEDs have additional electronic components in their package, where low quality ones can produce EMF that can interfere with other components.
So, you're asking for future video suggestions? I got one.
A video about Widebody tables, the history behind them, and how big they are compared to normal pinball machines.
Interesting to hear the vibrations are causing the LEDs to fail sooner. I was expecting LEDs to vastly outperform regular lightbulbs in longevity, and the only issue being to find the right brightness/color when replacing. If vibrations are such LED-killers, that might also explain why I often see cars with failing LED head/tail lights, as these get to experience a lot of shakes and bumps too, during use.
Thank you for the video. For home use I replaced the bulbs on a Rocky and Bullwinkle. Having the coloured leds makes the playfield vibrant.
Great information and great to hear you mention Hankin too...as I have The Empire Strikes Back and was advised also to stick with traditional globes over LED globes for this machine👍
There are siegecraft boards now for older machines so you can LED them without ghosting or flickering. I did that to my 1979 Stern Magic and it looks beautiful.
Great review mate.
Great video and advice!
Mark thank you for this insight. I am still thinking over changing some bulbs for LEDs on my Stellar Wars and Fire Power and Space Invaders as these machine the old sockets are rusting. You give me a good reason to come and see you soon to look more at changing to LED or getting new sockets for the older bulbs. Great Video too.
Certainly, just let me know when you'd like to come by. If you have rusty intermittent lamp sockets you will have to repair or replace them for either LEDs or bulbs to work properly. Thanks, Mark
*Thank you for your informative vids Mark, please keep them coming!*
Thanks for your interest and feedback.
Great video with plenty of good points.
I will also add these points, from experience with older games that have had LEDs swapped in and my three decades of experience working with and on these games, and as a long time player.
First, all pinballs originally designed using incandescent bulbs run the lamp circuits on AC. This means the LEDs strobe at 60hz. This ruins gameplay and can present a real danger to some people sensitive to this strobing. Recently, a local establishment had a young man experience a seizure due to this strobing. He can play most any pinball game without problem, but the LED strobing was the issue.
Second, luminescence is almost always off by a large margin - usually the game is blindingly bright.
Third, color temperature always tends to be way off and people have this tendency to use colored LEDs for GI circuits or "mod" the color scheme of a game with colored LEDs. Please for the love of all that is good, don't do this. The colder tint of LEDs is harder on the eyes.
Fourth, light shows. Many light shows are designed with bulb fade time in mind for light show effects. LEDs are instant on and instant off, so light shows lose their impact.
There is a pinball show that I attend each year and it is amusing to watch how many games that have been retrofitted with LED wind up failing during the show due to the factors you mention. These circuits are designed with certain current loads in mind and altering them is causing all sorts of failures during the show. Keeps the parts vendors happy though!
Now, games designed for LED, with DC circuits, sure. In fact, Spooky's Total Nuclear Annihilation is an amazing game with some really awesome lighting effects with its DC RGB LEDs.
I will continue to run incandescent lamps in my older games. They are much easier on the eyes, don't give headaches or cause other problems because of the strobing and play is smoother and the machines are solid and reliable.
I agree, you summarized the key issues very well.
I recently converted a 1978 Bally Lost World to all LED lighting. I made most of the general illumination yellow in the playfield. I installed a new driver board as well for function lights. The game looks and functions great and now operates "cool" ending any heat issues from the power supply board.
Machines that we're designed for incandescent bulbs often look terrible when fitted with LEDs. Quite apart from the colour difference, the thermal inertia causes a pleasing fade up/down that many game designers exploited to good effect.
Nice entertainment aspects of video. Just right.
Pinball my favorite fun!
Love that Batman game.
The two big advantages with LED is that they are individual adressable from just one wire, and that they can change colour. All new produced pinball-tables should only have one and the same cheap board controlling all the lights, this would make for replaceability and cost effectiveness both for the producer and also for customers.
Hi Mark. You ask for suggestions for future videos. In one of your videos, you show the "wear" on rubbers and flippers. Maybe you could make a video on how to renew or rebuild a set of flippers to get rid of the sloppiness and excessive end play. At the same time you could also show how to replace or clean rubbers. Thanks with regards from Simo :-)
Thanks for the suggestion, these service tasks have all been covered many times by other people.
Suggestions? OK...
There's a Led Zeppelin video game out there, and I would LOVE to see someone playing it! I've see a photo of it, but you can't really see much in it. :)
I suppose I should add, *IF* you can find it! :)
leds also have a much better flash response so people who are sensitive to flashing lights could be effected.
Hi Mark. My suggestion for a video is troubleshooting pop bumpers. In the videos I've seen they just happen to have the answer. I'd be interested in more the logic of determining issues. (In my case the bumper registers a hit but doesn't bump. Also another issue on my list is working out magnasave issues (Goldeneye). How do you test the circuits and troubleshoot? I noticed a fuse was out and when I replaced the the magnet board started to smoke! :O Tips and hints on troubleshooting circuits would be great. Thanks. Go Tigers! Go Storm! (lost you now!?!) :)
What artists music is on outtro? Nice bass playing and drums! Bells fit well with theme of show.
It's a good tune created in the 80s' by a small group of student musicians and composers especially for use promoting the features of a new game I debuted at a trade show.
G'Day Mark. I noticed your video is around 5 years old. I was looking at maybe buying a 1980 year Bally that has updated to led lights. Are the newer LED's better than from 5 years ago? It does look more sharper than the original bulbs. You mentioned about it could be hard to replace them when broken in the future. I have heard this can be a problem just in general home or commercial buldings .Thanks in advance..
The only major change since this show is there are more LED manufacturers and with that there are many more low quality LEDs on the market. People buy based on price assuming all LEDs are of the same quality, the fact is they are not. Today in 2023 it's even harder to find decent quality LEDs at a reasonable price. For Pinballs 70's and 80's pinballs my advice remains the same, some brands and games have lighting problems when you install LEDs so I don't recommend them unless you know of an LED that will function properly and last much longer than the original bulbs.
Where about are you based in Brisbane?
Almost 5 years late for me but still a completely relevant and highly informative video. Thank you! Question: Do you think that older machines have problems with LEDs due to a much lower (almost non-existent) resistance than incandescent? Just a thought from a pinball fan but technical noob.
Short answer, yes that is the case in some older games, the brand/quality of an LED can also be a problem. Watch my show on LEDs.
Yes the lower power drain of LEDs does contribute to the problem especially on Williams pinballs.
A low current draw from LEDs means they have a HIGHER resistance. This can still cause problems, e.g. from dimmers, why are tuned for a lower resistance. Also these replacement LEDs have additional electronic components in their package, where low quality ones can produce EMF that can interfere with other components.
I despise excess lighting. Insulting to the user. Harmful. Wasteful. Evil.