Is The Boring Tunnel WORTH IT?!
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- There has been SO MUCH HATE over The Boring Company's Las Vegas Convention Center tunnel--and it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the problem and the solution Boring and Tesla have come up with!
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I am consistently distressed to find every day that we are surrounded by hateful little people that have nothing of value to add to our society.
You are describing the sheep. You aren't supposed to be concerned with them at all.
Amen!
@@sailirish7 No. You are describing the goats, who have been butting their heads up, against the system now, for generations... The sheep, are YOU who follow, unquestioningly, the Billionaire class 'shepherds'
Champ
I’m smiling … reading your post !
Yep !
Most “Sane” people admire Elon.
You don't get it - to someone else, you are one of them.
I think you are right - many people hate Elon and anything that has any connection to him. Crazy, right?
The term "hate on" is way overused.
It's more like EDS(Elon Derangement Syndrome) 😂
Your hero Elon is a POS Trump and Putin supporter...
No, the whole idea is a stupid waste of money. It is almost as fast to walk.
@@nathansmith7153 Think mars, moon and beyond dude... This is I think the end goal! No one is walking on the surface, plus digging tunnels there will be much easier and faster than building road networks on the surface!!
We went to ride the tunnel while we were in Vegas in December. A fantastic experience. The staff was super friendly and informative. Great way to get around Vegas.
Many of the haters don't realize Las Vegas already has a monorail but it's maxed out during conventions and sports events despite a train stopping every 5 minutes. The roads are packed and these tunnels add additional capacity to the city. it's great.
That's an excellent point.
I didnt know thst, but after looking at a map the monorail appears to travel north/south vs the Loop which goes east/west. I dont believe anyone is saying that tunnels are terrible, only that a subway would have significantly more capacity. With oyster cards, larger doors and driverless trains this system is already very efficient if you use best practices.
@@ipadsrawesome3667 The monorail goes between the MGM and convention center hitting casinos in between. The loop will do the same with more casino stops plus the airport.
@@ipadsrawesome3667 A subway would indeed be better but the tunnels are 1/10th the cost.
@@TrendyStone but what makes subway tunnels so much more expensive than this tunnel? Subways are in tunnels. That is what the prefix "sub" means
I rode from the convention center to Resort World. It was great! Excited for when the airport to Bellagio is open and when the Teslas are automated.
No land acquisition costs, no disruption to anything along route during construction, straight line route unlike roadways. Hmmm
i'd like to see the boring company build a tunnel from the Salton Sea to the Sea of Cortez. Obviously, not for cars.
Why not put in a subway?
@@joeybulford5266 the larger the tunnel the higher the cost. And it's not linear. So if you double the diameter you more than double the cost. there's a formula. So unless the subway train is very small in size it won't be able to fit into the existing boring company tunnels
Having said that you could put a hyperloop system inside of it
@@laughinggas5281
HyperLoop is a TERRIBLE, AWFUL, HORRENDOUS idea! Please stop believing everything Elon says. HyperLoop will kill people.
Public transit doesn’t leave when you want , doesn’t leave from where you want , doesn’t arrive when you want and doesn’t go where you want , takes forever to create and cost’s the public way too much to build. Autonomous vehicles will pick you up where you are , when you want and take you where you want to go . Plus The Boring company is financing this whole tunnel system, no public money . So why the Hate ? New things always face resistance from the incumbents. Big entrenched construction companies don’t want competition especially faster cheaper better. Especially without cost overruns , paid for by the helpless public. I really hope The Boring Company is a giant success.
I think this is a win-win for everyone. Visitors get a free and quick ride, and the TBC and Tesla get "free" advertisements and exposure. I am sure there is an agreement in place that required LV to use Teslas, probably discounted, for an agreed-upon term, and the boring work was discounted. Musk gets to show off the Boring Company and Teslas to millions of people every year, the city gets a perk, and the visitors get a free ride. It's a symbiotic marketing win.
This was very informative. Thank you for this. Other cities will follow once the economics of LV's success with Boring are better understood.
cynicism is easy
I haven't attended CES for the past 3 years, but did so for 10 years prior contiguously. DKIA speaks the truth. To get around Las Vegas quickly and efficiently the Boring Tunnel makes the most sense for the city (and many others in the US as well). It can scale at manageable cost, perhaps to remote neighborhoods at the edge of Vegas to the city center for work, play, or both. It could also link these remote neighborhoods to the airport for long range travel. Speaking of air travel, imagine building hyperloop regional rail networks in the US (near supersonic speed-tech exists for this now) to replace short to mid-range airliners and the dirty, fossil fuel they burn... Flight delays due to weather would also become irrelevant.
The naysayers want the future to be like the past. Everything they say is a rationalisation around that motive.
People just reflexively hate any new idea now. I think it makes them feel better about not doing anything with their own lives.
Current estimated cost of installing new underground subway is 750 million to 1 Billion per mile
IIRC Elon stated that it cost $10 million per mile for the initial project. And he expects the cost to drop to about $5 million per mile.
Yep. We're currently adding to our comparatively simple (but great) subway system in Vancouver, British Columbia. It's wonderful. . . but it costs a fortune to build and takes forever to raise enough money to do it! As a result, progress in expanding the network is painfully slow. The first line was built in the mid eighties and is about 20 miles long. The vast majority of the line is above ground, on elevated guideways. It cost a billion dollars from end to end. Those were the days.
I think there are multiple reasons why people don’t use the tunnels:
1- Anything to do with Elon they have nothing to do with it.
2- Elon does not do advertising so a lot of people never heard about it.
3- Most people are habitual they have their own way how to use transportation, it’s difficult to break a habit.
4- Negative talking about it, especially people who have a skin in the game, can influence other people’s opinion.😅
5- Ignorance also plays a part, thinking it’s more expensive than other means of transportation.
All these will disappear with time.
It seems like the real thing people don't get is a) it's a proof of concept and a way to work out bugs and refine process and b) it's basically free adverting for Tesla
So we still will have worm holes under cities?
Not very good free advertising. It is basically advertising how far we are from FSD!
It's an absolute joke and an embarrassment, like the Cybertruck.
@@john_hind - I think you must be an Elon fan boy to not see this, when tesla cars need a man behind the wheel to drive slowly trough a fixed route, over and over again, the "FSD" is decades away, this must be obvious
Work on yourself.@@Withnail1969
I don’t think people will really start to get it until the it’s fully built out in Vegas.
The big difference with a subway is if you are at station 1 and you need to get to station 15, then you need to stop at all stations in between. Boring will eliminate that.
While it might only be 40 mph (65 kph) for now, even going at that pace with no traffic or intersections is a massive efficiency boost in shuffling people around.
Once the project is complete, people will start to see.
The downside of that is that each tunnel only connects two destinations--the one at each end of the tunnel.
There is little downside to it you are traveling at but people topside are doing about one mile per hour
forty mph
@@eyesucklebut once out the congested centre you could use normal roads. This is highly effective in places like Adelaide Oz and Manchester and Camebridge in UK. I also saw rapid transit buses with platformed stops and dedicated lanes in Beijing. Dedicated bus ways in general have not been fully leveraged. Autonomy might change that.
I'm European, and I think the Boring tunnels are great!
Sure, americans HAVE fucked up the public transportation system, but given that it is a reality, the Boring tunnels could be a great way to transition away from that and to healthier cities.
So you do not believe in subways, busses, bicycles and "uber" solutions?
Boring company's solution is a subway, bus and uber in one package.
@@doncarlodivargas5497 Subways are slow and inefficients. Takes 1 hour to go trough Paris, it's only 10 km.
@@okgoogle4206 - so a million cars driving slowly around in tunnels are the solution?
@@doncarlodivargas5497 What people don't believe in is wasting the public funds, the Boring Co. is by far the cheapest solution. Putting some transportation underground will make way for bicycles and scooters.
Luddites are everywhere, including in Las Vegas, but especially those with political positions, investments, wages, salaries or executive bonuses tied to the legacy auto and fossil fuel industries.
CO2 + H2O + sun's EM energy= Fossil fools who think they are God's and are the cause of this the millennium of climate change END TIMES.
Repent take up your millennial cross and follow Jesus.
people REALLY don't seem to understand how much a subway tunnel costs to build in time and money compared to a Boring tunnel
If the boring company is so unbelievable, why cant they just put trains in the tunnels? They are also electric. Is it really only the size of the drill? Originally the teslas were supposed to be on pods, so you think they could make the tunnel a little bit wider...
@ipadsrawesome3667 Because trains ate not better in all use cases. They don't go straight to where you want to go they stop at every single station in between. They can't exit the system and take you for your ongoing journey or go door to door.
@@garethrobinson2275 . Your point is we just need more roads though, right? Regardless if it is above ground or under ground more roads are the answer. So additional single lanes of traffic underground is the solution. I cannot wait until that is bumper to bumper stuck at traffic lights.
I never said subways are always the answer, but a 4 stop underground tunnel seems like it could be a good spot for a subway. Especially since it goes east/west indtead of north south.
@@ipadsrawesome3667
💯
If someone thinks that adding more lanes is any kind of solution to traffic, just show them the Katy freeway in Texas. There absolutely should have been a subway put in here, but fanbois gonna fanboi.
@@ipadsrawesome3667 The tunnel likely is the size of the boring machine's drill then they put concrete on the walls.
I was in in Las Vegas in November & one of the reasons I wanted to go there was to go for a ride in the Boring Company Tunnel. I was very disappointed that the numerous people that I asked about the tunnel in the hotels & on the strip & even at information booth & hop on hop off bus location had no idea what i was talking about. Most had never heard of it or had a vague idea, but didn't know where it was located. Also the people I was with could not have cared less about the tunnel & were quite happy I never found it. It was my only time in Las Vegas & since I'm not a gambler it's likely I will never return, I didn't find the city all that interesting except it was neat to see where the Vegas Golden Knights play hockey. We were also there a week before the Formula 1 race there & saw the bleechers & race track.
Cute story are you saying you couldn't find the tunnels? You OK? 😂
@@garethrobinson2275they probably don't have Google on their phone😉
I'm on my couch in Oregon and just mapped my way to one of the tunnel entrances.
There's this new thing called Google...
Whenever I've been to LV, my general impression is "this city shouldn't be here"
London has an Underground but it is full. It has a motorway (or highway) called the M25 that circles London. The M25 is also informally called a car park. A north-south and east-west tunnel system would be very helpful.
I do worry a little about the safety of the Boring Company's tunnels in the event of there being a fire. I am sure there are ways to allow heat out, re-route cars and space cars from each other, but I have not heard about this. Nonetheless, I would be prepared to take the risk, due to the time savings.
Valid research!!
Anything to get people to understand that electric is the future. Those tunnels could hold mass transit in the future
As someone who sits in traffic every day tunnels are the most important transportation advancement i can wish for.
A lot of people have a real or imaginary fear of enclosed underground spaces.
Some psychological improvements might help.
As a geotechnical engineer, with tunneling experience, I love the public interest in tunneling brought out through the the Boring Company exploits. There is no doubt that tunneling can/will be sped up and built cheaper. However, the popular concept that one machine can dig any tunnel anywhere is quite misguided. Tunneling in rock is totally different than tunneling in wet sand is totally different than tunneling in clay or under a desert. A whole toolbox of different tunneling machines is needed for the different geologies.
Nice strawman logical fallacy ("one machine can dig any tunnel anywhere"). Care to reference that claim?
The TBC Prufrock machine is a mixed or soft ground EPB (Earth Pressure Ballance) machine. Not suited for hard rock or sand/gravel soil. Latest tunnel is at giga texas and it can be seen on the various videos that the cutterhead is dressed different to the ones used in Vegas. Not sure why/how it will be sped up or built cheaper with the 35 year old technology TBC are using. Hopefully soon they will get into using Slurry, Hard rock, double shield, Variable density type machines. At least then they can claim to be moving into 21st century technology. Plenty of reference videos on line and data on production rates, machine types, if you care to spend the time. @@andrewlee6913
The transit system by the Boring company will be much faster than any subway system no matter how much money is spent. People dont understand how awful subways are, when one has to stop at almost all stops, versus point to point
That only works if everyone getting into a Tesla wants to go to the same place. If you only let people get in that are going to the same place then most of the time the cars will have only person in, drastically reducing capacity. Then, you have the problem of cars leaving a station and trying to merge with cars that aren't stopping into a tiny tunnel. LVCC only works because all the cars stop at the central station.
@@brendanpells912 I think both of those problems can be addressed by using a little computer assistance. A smartphone app (which they need to pay their fares) can tell passengers where to wait for their rides, so that people going to the same destination are grouped together. And the cars can communicate so that traffic slows slightly to allow a merging car to enter the stream. Unlike freeways where many drivers have selfish agendas, the drivers (and eventually self-driven vehicles) will be trained to cooperate for a smooth-running system.
@@kevinbailey8827not to mention, even if each person is going to a separate location on the route, it's still only a few stops vs every point in between.
The truth is we can only speculate on the same destination scheduling challenge of the Vegas Loop. The LVCC is a contained system with just 2 destinations for each boarding station. Even the current iteration of the Vegas Loop just allows Resort World to LVCC access. The next 2 stations will work out some constrution standards. The Westgate and Encore stations will just go to the LVCC. There might be Resort World to Westgate trips. I am looking forward to real world information once there are 10 to 12 Vegas Loop stations. Will it only be open during conventions (current Resort World policy)?
@@kevinbailey8827 - many high rise office buildings have implemented a similar system for elevators. When you call the elevator you tell it what floor you want to go to, and it makes the calculation and tells you which car to wait for. It puts people traveling to the same floor together to minimize stops, and speeds up the overall system.
I went to AWS: reInvent this year, which is also really big. I went once from Mandalay Bay to the Venetian via bus. It was supposed to be something like 20 minutes, but it was really an hour and 15 minutes. I missed my session that I was trying to get to, so I was pretty mad. I wish the Boring tunnels extended that far. Can't wait for them to spider out to more of the city.
hopefully the prices dont get crazy to use this system because not long ago i tried taking an uber from downtown vegas to circucs circus and it cost $75 which is ridiculous for such a short ride.
Remember, Ubers are driven. If drivers are scarce it takes more cash to get extra drivers to turn up. At some point FSD will take over the driving task. Plus opex for EVs is much lower.
@@bobwallace9753that's interesting because FSD would be immediately effective in a closed environment. Presumably instruction notices could guide the vehicles.
@@markthomas7279
Seems to me that Tesla's FSD system is far more adequate than what is needed today in a BoringCo tunnel system. Lane keeping, adaptive cruise control (so it doesn't bump into a car ahead of it), pedestrian/object avoidance, and self-parking should be all that is needed.
Use a central computer system to handle scheduling and destination.
My guess is that Boring is keeping drivers in the system for 'political' reasons. Best to not outrage the taxi/Uber driver community.
Thanks for this. Just one correction: even though the big dig was disruptive, took a long time and was expensive, it was not about expanding the subway system.
Actually, there were plans to connect South and North Station by rail and room was provided, but the Luddites were able to kill it. Former Gov Dukakis has spoken about it over the years, and still champions the connection which would have huge benefits to the region. Haters Gonna Hate.
You made a really good case for tunnels.
Thanks
+I love to see how people do not understand how things expand and grow. Not enough tunnels, not enough EV chargers, busses every where, fuel stations every where. They forget that those also had to start somewhere, they were not put there over night. When DVD players came out, was it cheap? Did every body buy one the next day? Was all the movies immediately available on DVD? When Netflix started, streaming did every body dump their DVD players and did all other companies start streaming immediately?
Monorail was originally slated to run down the middle of the Strip, but there was so much pushback from the Cab companies at the time, they decided to make a stupid version with limited usefulness instead, offset from the Strip, and heading away from it at one point. There's definitely room on the Strip to add a mass transit solution, even now.
The Biring company system will be a mass transit solution.
We got rid of the elevated highway in Boston center and elevated "subways" throughout the city decades ago, at great cost and against enormous political resistance. The ugly noisy packed highway was replaced by a delightful park. The city is no longer bisected. There were more elaborate plans for the public spaces, but the naysayers were able to kill them. I doubt you could find a single Bostonian who misses the elevated. Few even remember them.
For what we see in the video, a very light rail vehicle is more than enough and you can use it with this tunnel diameter
Airport to any hotel for even $15 would be amazing. Can't wait. I walk between hotels because it's just faster then driving. This would be so much better.
If there is no driver involved...
It never ceases to amaze my how ignorant some people from other countries are WHEN IT COMES TO the size of the United States. They see a map of their country on a full page of a book and then they see a map of the US as a full page in the same book and somehow that translates into both places are the same size.
Most Americans can't find more than 5 countries on a globe...
I find it more weird that Americans don't know their own history: that most of the US had functioning public transportation before it was all destroyed, and our towns bulldozed to make parking lots. There's nothing about the size of the US that makes public transportation fail to work. But, it will all come back eventually. The car-centric "city of tomorrow" never worked economically. It's a ponzi scheme, and it's falling apart. The loop is a band-aid on a tumor.
Size really isn’t a problem for our infrastructure stuff, China has managed with their train system. I do think the tunnels will be a viable solution to many problems, and people seem to hate on them not realizing that they can probably be used for trains too, but we can still do better with rail and public transport
Distances between the extremities of the European economic block are similar to the distances in the USA economic block. Yet Europe has much better long distance land-based mass transport systems for humans.
USA is bigger than nearly every country around the world, but it is also very insular in many ways whilst around the rest of the world effective transport systems often extend across multiple countries with flows of people crossing borders in a similar way that you might c4oss borders between states.
I am British and I can name every American state and locate them on a map, which is more than most Americans can do.
Haters are going to hate. They are sad little people.
The Los Angeles “blew up” their transportation system is part myth. Yes, it’s true that the trains were shut down. And then Los Angeles and the subsequent towns grew inland another 50 miles. No public transportation system works with such sprawl. I live 50 miles from Los Angeles and took the trains for a few years. 2 hours and 20 minutes each way. 4 trains. It’s rare that you could make the connections, I was lucky have the last train get me within 1/8 mile.
My first experience with the Las Vega Loop was at the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) conference in April 2022, followed by two conventions in 2023 and so far two conventions in 2024. It was an absolute time saver and fun to ride, even if you had to walk almost half way back to the North Hall to get to the exhibit area in the West Hall. It was still faster than walking from the North Hall to the West Hall exhibit area. Not so much at the NAB this year. They didn't put on the full fleet of cars and you always waited longer than the ride itself to get a ride. Walking from the North Hall to the West Hall wasn't the usual option because of construction at the North Hall. I do think it is great for what it is, even with the wait this time. (Even with the rides, my phone reported I was walking over 36,000 steps in a day.)
People online don't seem to know the difference between a Hyperloop and the Vega loop. Not that they should hate on an experimental technology, but as the media proclaims Hyperloop is dead, people start to think the Vega loop is trash when they aren't even apples to apples comparisons.
It was mainly GM that convince major metro area to eliminate trolley systems to buses so GM could sell buses.
I would have loved to use the Boring Tunnel. I went to several conventions in Las Vegas in the 2000's. They were almost always in June. I remember one when the temperature was 117 degrees. It was brutal to get around. There were no Taxis available so I ended up taking the bus. I felt like I was in an oven.
I will believe it when Austin, LA and NYC has some tunnels.
The USA is in its last days, it is being suffocated by corporate lobbying and corruption in politics. The US infra-structure is an embarrassment for the largest wealth generating economy in the world. I live in The UK and would love to have the boring company and hyperloop instead of HS2 rail project. We prefer to spend all our money by following the US in to wars at the behest of the industrial military complex. I wish Elon would put a little more time into the boring company as it going to be needed more than ever when congestion increases due to robotaxi.
Free ice cream!
YUK - no strawberry - this sucks.
"You can please some of the people some of the time - the rest of them are jerks" Alfred Lincoln, Las Vegas.
I have been a big advocate of the tunnel concept since I heard about TBC. I think what people miss, is that if you build a tunnel, you can use different tunnels or tunnel types for different things:
1) Walking/walking conveyors
2) Biking
3) Cars
4) intra company transport tunnels
6 Utilites of all kinds
I think what you are missing is that those tunnels are being built in almost all cities around the world as we speak. All shapes and sizes to fit the needs of the client. TBC are not building tunnels any cheaper than people building the same size tunnels. Personally I have been an advocate of tunnels since I was 6 years old, 55 years.
Watched the whole video and never found out what the problem was. Curiosity kept me enduring the 17 mins to find out what’s up. Someone said something derogatory was all I found out. How about some examples?
You've missed all of the Boring Tunnel system hate? You have not been following closely enough! It's like a whole worldwide conspiracy theory hate-fest. They are frothing at the mouth out there.
There are many extremely militant critics like Thunderf00t and Common Sense Skeptic who have quite dishonestly invented issues around safety, traffic jams, performance, cost - you name it - all with the aim of besmirching what is a remarkably safe, efficient, high performance and cost effective public transit solution.
They also tend to hate on Starlink, SpaceX and even Tesla at times as they let their extreme dislike of Musk muddy the waters and generate clicks from the haters.
The Big Dig in Boston was extremely disruptive to everyone, but now that its done we have green space connecting the old Italian North End with Downtown Boston. Tunnels are awesome, the more the better!
"All shall seek shelter under rocks or in boring company caves in this the millennium of climate change END TIMES due to the mystery of the 7 crossings of our stars magnetic equator Jesus held in his hand."
Thanks for the video Dr KIA... One huge point, there is no public transportation in the world that pays for itself. They are all subsidized by tax dollars. People don't think about that when someone proposes these multi billion dollar projects that never come at the original cost. If this was a Warren Buffet boring company, there would a fraction of the hate. People should be grateful there is a company that doesn't have to gouge the tax payers to complete an essential project. Why are tons of comments being directed at FSD, this is a Boring Tunnel video not an FSD video. Go FUD somewhere else about self driving.
One huger point...Hong Kong MTR mass transit railway makes a profit (and has done for over 40 years). It is a private company with 70% shares owned by the government and 30% in private hands. I builds new extensions on a rail/property model. There is often government money put into the cost of the infrastructure, but this quickly repaid via the GFA tax from the property developments above/around the stations. The overall economic benefits also include an ongoing tax revenue for the government.
I travel on it most days and it costs me US$ 0.25 cents for each journey (senior rate, average US$2.4 for most people). It's clean, safe, very frequent (average wait usually no more than 2-3 minutes), and generally faster from A to B than by car in the urban areas.
I think most roads are subsidized by tax dollars by the way. Getting government to pay for infrastructure seems to be OK if it is for cars, so why not for rail/metro?
@davidsalisbury50 I said PUBLIC transportation systems don't make money. The Hong Kong MTR is a private company that doesn't make money from the transit system. They are a real estate company whose revenue comes from the shopping malls the transportation connects. The property for the rail is provided by the government and if you really do your research the rail construction was funded by the government. The money returned to the government through taxes has never and will never pay the cost of construction or the provided land.
@@shallenberger57 By "public" I didn't realize you were referring to wholly government owned, I thought you meant public transport as in busses, trains, metro trams etc. However, the MTR did make money year-on-year while it was wholly government owned between 1979 and 2002, when it was partially privatized by selling 24 % in shares (mainly to the Hong Kong citizens) and retaining 76% and full control. So the point of misunderstanding appears to be moot.
As a quasi-private company, the MTR continued to make profits from its transport operations (ridership, station reading, advertising, lease if telecom rights) up to the Covid 19 pandemic, completely separate from its property, retail and overseas arms (see the MTR public accounts and annual report).
Operational cost per rider km HK$6.98 (US$0.89), Revenue HK$7.91 (US$1.01), Profit HK$0.93 (US$0.12). (MTR annual report 2022)
Minimum ticket cost US$0.60, maximum about US$9.0
Ridership cost has been reducing year-on-year compared to cost of living and inflation.
So it does make money from its transit system.
It also makes money from its property developments, retail shopping and office space, overseas operations (Mainland China, UK, Sweden, Australia, where MTR make an operating profit) and other assets.
Government provide the land (same for almost all infrastructure roads, bridges, ports, airports etc). Government also provide some or all for the funding for the construction of the new railways (some as government owned assets some as MTR owned assets), it depends on the business case of each development. The money returned through direct taxes (GFA levy) DOES pay for the construction, usually within 5-10 years (again, plenty of evidence for this). The government also gets its 76% share from the overall profits. This of course does not include the secondary government revenue from the economic development fallout from the new line, which is an imprecise science but is calculated and shows the huge overall benefit of the metro expansion (that's why they keep doing it).
Going forward these business case profits are becoming more difficult to realize as the network expands into the less developed regions of Hong Kong, but they are expanding, and the shareholders (government and private), businesses, and general public welcome it.
This model will not work everywhere, it needs a modern first world, fairly densely populated, city (more and more of those around). But not all places are so forward thinking either.
Somehow online vs in person can be vastly different.
Out of Spec Kyle noted that CT online vitriol seemed universal while everyone complemented it in person.
Odds are the people who went to see it in person largely already liked it.
@@tracy419 Perhaps but these were just curious folks passing by in a parking lot while they were filming features for a couple hrs here and there, not a Tesla showroom.
@@Mrbfgray that's cool. It's personally not my cup of tea, but I hope those who buy them really enjoy them.
My favorite thing about the truck is that no matter how ugly the average person might think it is, musk still made it.
He made it because he likes it and not because marketing said it would sell and make him a lot of money.
Everyone should be so lucky to be in such a position that they can do something because they want to, and not because there's a proven market for it.
My least favorite thing about it is that I drive tow truck and do not enjoy the attention of others. And I know that before long, I'll be required to tow one of these things and literally everyone nearby will be watching and possibly filming.
I don't like that kind of attention, and it also puts my life at risk from rubber neckers.
I've had accidents happen literally 2 feet to my side while loading another accident because people are too busy watching what's happening to pay attention to the road.
I think Aussie cities need this badly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It costs $1B/mi to build a tunnel the conventional way. At $10M/mi the Boring Co can go 100 miles for the same amount.
Your estimate of $10 million per mile is low, but that does not change your point. Closer to $20 million per mile. Might be $16 million per mile.
It is not unionized, and not in politicians pockets so leads to lot of FUD
My concern was that if it really is this convenient and there is much traffic on surface streets the boring tunnels will be overcrowded because there can only be 3 or maybe 4 persons per vehicle.
I think there are many ways they can address that concern. They aren't limited to 3 or 4 passenger vehicles. They can make parallel tunnels, including some that bypass congested areas so that thru traffic doesn't become part of a local traffic problem. They can have drivers (or cars) trained to cooperate for smooth traffic flow rather than compete.
Not that I think about it I remember that they even had renders for more subway-style vehicles@@kevinbailey8827
What Kevin said, and also remember that what really slows down surface traffic is intersections. By avoiding grade crossings tunnels keep the traffic flowing.
Borring equipment on the moon and mars could be mind blowing for habitats and travel.
Please stop.
You should look in a mirror. @@gregorybyrne2453
(I am European...) Very interesting topic and great video. The question is: Does it scale in a cost effective manner? If the answer is yes then it's great, but if the answer is no, then some see it as a fake solution for a real problem promoted as a real solution, which trggers their anger...
The first decent question concerning the tunnels I've read so far. The only way to see is to make a city wide system and find out. I believe it will scale - we'll have to wait and see the results.
It's orders of magnitude cheaper per unit of throughput compared to a subway system.
Orders of magnitude? Are you exaggerating or do you not understand the term? Maybe one order of magnitude, but that is questionable. To date, it is significantly less expensive than a subway to construct.
@@chrislivingston2356 it's like 10 million a mile compared to like a billion a mile for a subway
@@chrislivingston2356 10 billion is three orders of magnitude larger than 10 million.
So yes it's orders of magnitude. Next time try to be a little bit more civil and do your math.
Just think of the thousands of human driven tunnel journeys Tesla has recorded to train on. FSD in these tunnels should be near flawlessly human with v12, one would think
The problem is regulatory, not technical.
Ok. That makes sense. as I could not understand why FSD has not already been deployed on what would be a very simple and low risk point to point application
In Vegas I always drive (a rental car) and it hasn’t been too bad (for the most part) but anything that reduces the traffic would be awesome!
I used to visit Vegas occasionally, but it has been 15 years since I was last there. I remember rental cars were cheap and parking was free almost everywhere. But traffic on the strip could be a nightmare at times.
I understand that rental cars aren't cheap any more, and most hotels charge for parking (though it may be less expensive or free if you're a guest). And resort fees mean that there are few real bargains in Vegas any more. I recall a $4.95 prime rib dinner at the Frontier.
What's your experience?
I am quite certain that the guy, who made the critical comments on X, is an Elon hater at all, he is just a Viennese and that explains his attitude for two reasons: First of all, Vienna has an absolutely superb public transportation system, with which you can very quickly, comfortably and cheaply go anywhere. Then, it is in his nature as a Viennese to love criticising everything and everybody. They can't help it.😂
I personally like idea of public transportation, and tunnels of boring company are type of subway is a good addition to what ever already met exist in the big cities and for that matter in smaller cities also. My question would be about its capacity. How would it handle "rush hour" type of traffic on busy routes. I think the network of tunnels would become very complicated, size of autonomous vehicles would have to also grow. In my mind it would look like subway system, more so as it would grow in size. Big plus for boring company is the advanced technology being used to build the tunnels and provide transportation. I am all for it as addition to existing public transportation systems. it would be good thing.
While this system has some limitations, I think it has one great advantage: By going deeper, it avoids having to re-route or cut through miles of pipes, drainage tunnels, power lines, sewers, fibre optics and all the stuff that digging a normal subway line has to deal with. Where I live, we're extending our relatively simple (but hugely successful) public transit line, which was started in the mid eighties. We now have three basic lines. Each of them runs partly underground and partly on elevated guideways.
But as Dr. KIA says, while far more efficient than these one-car-at-a-time tunnels in Las Vegas, traditional subway systems are incredibly expensive. The Boring Company model strikes me as a wonderful adjunct to an existing public transit system.
As a former Vegas resident I think it's great but I'd like to especially see tunnels open to all vehicles cutting across town on the diagonal, almost every street in Vegas is north-south or east-wrst that's one reason why traffic is bad. Also I kind of do not want this on the strip, half the fun of Vegas is just walking around and seeing all the weirdos n freaks. Plus only the giant rich casinos are going to be able to put in stations so you'll miss a lot of the great hole in the wall type places.
Oh ja. BTW, they still build new subways today: The Grand Paris Express is estimated to cost $45 billion, or €38 billion, and is the largest transport infrastructure project in Europe and the fourth largest in the world. The project includes 68 new stations, 120 miles of new track, and four new lines, with the first line opening in 2025. The project is intended to be completed by 2030.....just not in the US;-)
Thank you for your information, awesome video.
Yes Dan, and when he found out that we were model 3 owners, he made sure our return trip was in a model X!
Maybe if there is cheap led screens that can reach all around the tunnel to project travling along a road with the sky on top will make it a more enjoyable ride,
There are far more options than what you suggest and the capacity of an actual train is far greater. I’m not a fan of vitriol but this system isnt a “good” idea. It’s just a cheaper idea.
The capacity of a train is indeed greater. That's why trains stop at many stations, because there are many passengers that all have destinations. Many passengers have destinations that are on a different track, so some stations are used as transfer points. Passengers exit the train they're on, and wait for a different train that takes them the rest of the way (or to another transfer station).
As a passenger, I think getting in a vehicle that takes me all the way to my destination without extra stops or transfers is a better option.
But you're right that there are many options, and the The Boring Company's Loop is now one of them. Cities interested in installing public transportation systems can weigh the costs and benefits of each of them (with the understanding that no choice will please everyone).
Trains are a not a reasonable comparison. Primarily trains are single corridor solutions within the scope of 10 square miles. Subways are a better comparison, but I believe the best comparison is a high capacity bus lane network. Just to be clear, trains utterly fail to meet the requirement of a local transportation network without cars, rental cars, bus transfer, or other last 15 mile solutions. High capacity bus lane network does meet the requirement. Vegas Loop appears to meet the requirement. We will have to wait and see.
Doesn't TBC pay for everything except the stations, am I wrong?
Yeah I'm pretty sure they do on the rest of the system not the original conversion centre part.
Elon's deranged critics are some of the saddest people whose comments I've read. Just delusion and ignorance on levels that are staggering to comprehend.
I think the idea for Boring is fantastic, I just wonder if it can live up to the promises of speed/price of tunneling. I also wonder if different locations will be much slower and more difficult to tunnel. I'm all for Boring tunnel. We need cars and we will have more cars - and those cars have to go somewhere.
Also loading a train at 25% capacity 80% of the time is insanely inefficient. Rush hour is full. Great. Lots of efficiency. What about the other 20 hours of the day? You are using crazy amount of energy to speed up a train that is mostly empty. It's very inefficient. You are effectively losing so much money during non rush hour that the rush hour doesn't make up for the money you lose. Every rail system ends up needing massive government funding, while still charging passengers, and gigantic maintenance projects every 10-20 years.
Except is extremely highly popular areas like mid-downtown of a large city, rail does not make sense.
People really don't understand how inefficient American trains and subways are. Aside from NYC the U.S. simply does not have the population density that Europe does, and the result is that our train and subway systems are less energy efficient than a single person in an electric car - or two persons in an ICE car.
Look up the Green Myths section at Brad Templeton's robocars blog if you want details.
The other thing is that people don't understand how expensive building these projects is in the U.S. compared to most other countries, due to a combination of grift, organized crime, and a paralyzing regulatory system.
@@alanlight7740 100%. Almost every country in Europe has a higher population density than the US.
People are too keen to criticise. It’s proof of concept for larger developments. Main point being it isn’t supposed to replace trains or subways. It is an alternative to surface transport, thus it will alleviate surface traffic congestion. Can’t they see that to get from one end of a city to another would be so much quicker and easier going as the crow flies by tunnel will be far quicker and easier than driving through congested streets and roads. It’s mainly the anti Elon crowd I think who just want to throw shade on him and anything his companies do. It looks bad on them though, not who or what they target…
There is some fair criticism on Boring Co's environmental and safety record. I really want to get to Vegas soon though!
Your title was about why the hate. But, all it seemed was a promotion of the tunnels and that is fine - except, I watched thinking the video was going to explain why there is so much opposition to the tunnels.
Throughput is bad compared to traditional transit. Americans cities are being retrofitted with transit now. We missed the chance earlier, but it’s not too late. Boring tunnels could be a nice supplement though.
Bless.
Throughput can be scaled to what ever is needed. It will always be faster and cheaper than the equivalent subway system
Actually, Light Rail lines globally average only 17,431 passengers per day, half that of the Loop’s 32,000 people per day.
And what's really impressive is those LRT lines have an average 13 stations while the Loop does twice the volume over just 3 stations. Even metros only average 14,656 passengers per day per station according to the UITP which is only a bit higher than each LVCC Loop station’s 10,670 per day despite subways costing 30x - 70x more.
Looks like fun. I'll have to try it! Pretty cheap!
For a place like Vegas they could create an underground electric vehicle roadsystem. Run your electric mass transport vehicles on this system. Inductive charging in the roadway would be interesting
The Boring Tunnels are great for people who love MRI's. Its like driving through an MRI that keeps going and going and going only with out that loud clanking noise.
do people tip the drivers?
Yeah, but they only take Dogecoin.
most people don’t hate Elon it’s just the media and those with a loud voice that have nothing better to do
I think there would be a moderate improvement when they can use Tesla vans instead of model 3. Not sure the tunnels would be big enough though?
They’ll be big enough. There’s recent video of a cybertruck in the tunnels.
I think they’ll need a steady stream of Tesla buses between the stadiums and big hotels when there are big events.
But keep the sedans in the mix also.
10:45 This can't be more cost effective than dedicated one lane on the road for bus only. US cities are built in the square grids, so you have parallel streets with 4 lanes in each direction. Take two parallel streets next to each other, dedicate one lane for the bus, each street in other direction and you have much more cost effective solution. No digging, just couple of concrete blocks to divide bus lane so no one can obstruct it with parked car. You can spend much less money to drivers and each vehicle can cary 50 passangers instead of 3. This is cost effective, not tunnels.
And when you cut the lanes available to cars in half while people still avoid riding the busses, what have you solved?
Seems like you just made the problem worse.
@@tracy41912,5% is not a half. Once masstransport is faster, cheaper and more convenient, people will switch.
A few problems with this.
First, American cities are built on grids ... west of the Mississippi. East of the Mississippi, where the majority of Americans live, most cities are NOT built on grids - or have grids only in the center of the city.
Second, buses are slow and energy inefficient. They are constantly having to stop to let passengers on or off, slowing the trip for everyone else. To be useful they have to run their routes all day even when there are few riders.
Third, traffic on surface streets will always be slowed down because crossings are at grade. Tunnels can go over or under each other as necessary, and bypass all the traffic lights.
Fourth, the United States has much lower population density than Europe. Aside from a few places like New York City there just isn't enough density to support public transit.
Square grids, huh. Ever been to Boston?
What if we take a Subway and make it it shittier?
This is just a specific solution for a specific problem. It’s not mass transport solution by any means.
But it will be a 90-station system that moves masses of people around a small city. Representatives of other cities looking at mass-transit solutions will visit Las Vegas and see how this works. They'll be able to talk to The Boring Company about how much it costs to build and how much it costs to operate. Then they can make informed decisions about whether it can be adapted to their needs.
Has German I never used public transport because it is much faster with my car and I think to have a huge tunnel network under a city is great first of all the construction of these tunnels don't disturbed the traffic on the ground. Such tunnels would always have the same route conditions because no rain, no snow. The only thing that worries me is what are the safety measures even if the possibility is very low that an EV caught fire it will happen it is only a matter of time. Also accidents will happen. The current state of the boring tunnels are dead traps when something will happen. Smoke is a very big problem in such tunnels. We in Germany or EU will first want to have a solution for this problem before we even start digging. Maybe this is the difference between the USA and the EU.
I am not part of this, I like being a BETA tester and for me the risk of something like this happening is so low that I would take the risk because the reward is much greater for everyone.
Another option: Ski lift style cable car systems.
I don’t understand why Tesla doesn’t focus on FSD specifically for the boring tunnels, it’s would be GREAT advertising for Tesla and The Boring Company!
Another poster said the powers that be have yet to approve self driving.
@@danharold3087 I get that, I’m trying to say just really focus on making it work and get approved just for driving in the tunnel, on their property.
@@Joe4show I expect caution is the watch word of the day.
If they've gone to all the trouble and expense of the tunnels - put freaking multi passenger subway trains in there instead of automobiles FFS.
Automobiles are far superior in many ways. The cars are temporarily they will end up with small buses or vans. Trains would blow costs out and make the entire system slower
Uninformed people resist change. You should’ve seen all the negativity about cars when they first came out.
What are the tunnel walls made of? It's my understanding that one of the reasons Las Vegas makes a good testing ground for the boring company is that the bedrock there is mostly schist--a type of weak, friable rock that is far easier to bore through than, say, granite or limestone. So, given that this rock is somewhat crumbly, how are the tunnel walls reinforced?
The tunnels are lined with precast concrete sections.
@@alanlight7740 Thank you!
You just mentioned the reason, you mentioned contractors, in New York City city if you stop contractions from charging outrageous money by coming up with a lower cost solution,...... Well very soon you will be included in the concrete foundation 😅
Europe is jealous. No space in cities for anything except skyscrapers. Outside "cities" the towns are too small to support tunnels (towns supporting tunnels - odd phrase!). And outside cities the public transport is very variable. 2 GBP a bus journey in the UK at the moment, but that is a political sop to voters because the UK gov has sold oil concessions in the North Sea recently.
And you can bet Tesla will one day make a people transporter & it will fit in the tunnels, with FSD fer sure.
Terminal 5 at London Heathrow has road based autonomous electric pods running on a dedicated above ground tracks from (ironically) the car park to the terminal, they are a bit bumpy, but it works well enough.
Same with the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport.
I like them, not applicable inside many cities however.
the Heathrow PRT Pods only carried 800 people per 22 hour day pre-COVID across the three stations over a 2.4 mile track compared to 32,000 per 8 hour day for the Loop. And the Pods can only achieve a max speed of 25mph compared to 40mph in the LVCC Loop and 127mph demonstrated in the Hawthorne Loop test tunnel. There are only 22 Heathrow pods versus the 70 Teslas in the Loop and overall cost was around $58M in today’s dollars, significantly more than the Loop despite the Loop carrying 40x the number of passengers. And this system is above ground, rather than the underground tunnels of the Loop.
Not a hater but do they deal with a breakdown or accident in the tunnel? The channel tunnel has parallel tunnels etc for emergency use
Well said! In short: something is better than nothing. It was built quickly, with a fraction of the money needed for a metro system and it works!
One example of metro system built in modern time (this century) is the Copenhagen Metro city ring. Fully automated and working very well (I use it almost daily). Consider that it was built in a city with a lot of water below and around, in some place the tunnels are under the water. They worked also to keep the disruption of the traffic only at the entry/exit points. So, not easy to build, expensive, takes time to build, but not an impossible project (if there is the political will....). Check it out on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Metro
Fully agree with your general premise. You need to educate yourself on the timeline and the current challenges. I will be shocked if more than 5 stations open in 2024 including Encore and Westgate.
Things always take longer than expected. I think TBC will hit its stride, but it won’t be apparent this year. I’d be happy to see five stations open in 2024.
I x'ed out your video when you claimed public transportation is great. Not only is it objectively slower than cars, even in NYC, it cost far more money per-passenger mile than any other form of transportation. America is simply more advanced than European cities in regards to this, not the other way around.
It’s all about hating Musk. Which is so stupid that those who hate him could not present a coherent case for their hatred.
If they use pods rather than a metro system that would be much cheaper.
First off, the LV Monorail would be great if the taxi corporations would not have stopped it going to the airport a long time ago. Building above ground is still not as expensive as underground and it could easily transport 100k plus people a day. The boring company cannot even get close to that, no matter how hard they try. Just think of a tunnel that should go all along the strip to the Allegiant stadium. When, for example, 1000 people would want to board at resorts World to the stadium, it would leave out all the other Resorts in between. It will be way harder to merge those vehicles in while others are in motion. So, if you want to go from the Bellagio to the stadium at peak times, you might as well just walk the whole thing. The problem is scalability with this solution. But hey, who cares, you can sit in a Tesla;-)
The first driver with a little to much alcohol or drugs and the system collaps. Mass transport in tunnels was solved a long time ago, it´s called subway train. It´s much easier to implement self driving (already on the way) and less prone to individual mistakes. For individual driven short distances in cities, maybe 10 miles, use an eBike on special bike lanes, altready established in the Netherlands. Or you can open up the tunnels for eBikes instead of Teslas or RoboTaxis? Easy and much more healthy!
That's why we don't have planes or trains any more. One disaster and it's all over. I'd like to see Europe, but because of the Titanic I never will.
This solves a few of the problems with train-based public transportation, which isn't as perfect as you suggest.
I can't understand why the drivers aren't allowed to use even basic lane assist. It looks stressful to me to drive all day on these narrow tunnels. Kind of driving in a construction lane all the time.
Bless, it's dead easy once they get used to it. Sadly in a few years this job will be gone.
Elon Derangement Syndrome is real. Boring company's loop is a genius idea
This isn't mass transit, light rail, subway,or monorail can move a lot more people.
You are correct. This is a point-to-point system not the system limited by the tracks inherent in your definition of mass transit. Comparing the too solutions simply shows a lack of understanding of the requirement door to door requirement. The only way tracks accomplish door to door is by adding buses with walking, cars in a parking lot, taxis, or uber. Please compare equivalent solution not throw out a one liner.