@@Fry09294 this piece was written with intent. The only confusion and disorientation to be had is you not understanding it due to a lack of familiarity, which isn't the piece's fault.
@wooshifgay462 Europeans were using Just-intonation at least during some of Baroque. I don't know if that's considered microtonal but it isn't equal temperament and can be hard to harmonize some chords much like with microtonal systems.
@wooshifgay462 completely incorrect, equal temperament only became standard around the 1850s. before then meantone temperament and other non-equal temperaments were most common, and those contain microtones. f.e. 1/4 comma meantone has 17 tones per octave
interesting! do you happen to know the import of the phrase? is there any context that could enable you to make out if the sense is "alas, no more pristine music" or "enough with the stuffy stuff"?
I totally agree, it's not meant to be a 'good piece', but a demonstration of principles and possibilities. The context is a 'cookbook for enharmonic music', not a collection of 'real music'.
@@Studio31plus I agree too... Vicentino's music is more interesting than good ... beside his interesting temperament the music is more conservative than that of his contemporaries (several of them) and pretty strangely the reason it struck and interest us is probably far from his intentions ... I could be wrong but I think that his goal was to have the most "consonant" possible tridas...ignoring the fact that our listening is "oblique" and that for reaching that goal he had to introduces several odd melodic "dissonances".... I think that part of its not full success is due to the lack of vertial dissonances... for some reason I really don't fully understand, probably connected to the attack of the sound, it sounds even sharper on the cembalo. interesting thing anyway.
@@gab_gallard Then some of the keys must duplicate notes, since it seems to have total 36 keys per octave when you add the 2 manuals (19 keys per octave on lower and 17 keys per octave on upper). Edit: Description here (CC has English translation): ruclips.net/video/YtTSaW45moU/видео.html
There are some systems; mostly you use a circle/spiral of fifths as a reference point where gb db ab eb bb f c g d a e b f# c# g# d# a# is the order of fifths; d-f# is a ditone if the fifths are pure, resulting in f# being sharper than gb, and if the fifths are detuned by a quarter comma, d-f# is indeed a pure major third and gb is higher than f#. In pythagorean tuning or 53edo, the interval d-gb is close to a major third and can be seen as "d-f#," but a comma lowered. The tempered systems having strechted or close to pure fifths (17,22,41,53) make use of this distinction, threating ditones and major thirds as distict intervals, while the tempered systems with mostly flat fifths (12,19, 24, 31) aim to reduce the size of the ditone to immitate a major third. In general, one can notate at least 19 distinct notes with just # and b as usual as seen by the split black keys on this keyboard. The second row of white keys with split blacks can be interpreted as quasi-quarter tones and called by the modern half-sharp, threehalf sharp, half flat/d and threehalf-flat db, though the traditional notation continues with regular accidentals: after a# follow e# b# f## c## g## d## a## e## b##... and on the other side cbb gbb dbb abb ebb bbb fb cb gb.
@@Testgeraeusch Off the subject, but - I see you haven't found a way to print a genuine flat sign either, so you get ebb bbb, etc. Anyone know a way to avoid this?
@@richardholmquist7316 Probably something like: ♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭ (taken from the wikipedia article on accidentals; if i'm to lazy to look for a special character i just search for it and copy the text)
It's not a brand, the instrument was hand crafted by Bernhard Fleig and his workshop in Basel, Switzerland. It's a unique prototype, so far there is only one of them in the world, as far as we know.
The instrument itself isn't the most pleasant piece of work to hear, but the musical concepts do sound quite intriguing. I figure if this piece were played on a more proper organ of the same tuning system the piece would sound much better.
Not to me, its sound is very interesting. The possibility of microtonality and to apply the just intonation, or others temperaments, even more than a hand crafted prototype, it's a great lesson in aesthetics.
Yep, I remember studio 31 from back in the 70’s.
The 1570’s.
It’s a blur. Ergot poisoning was the rage.
this piece is my eternal mood
still is
This piece is my eternal mode
@@palutalu church mode...eternity mode perhaps?
Highly confused and disoriented?
@@Fry09294 this piece was written with intent. The only confusion and disorientation to be had is you not understanding it due to a lack of familiarity, which isn't the piece's fault.
What a great time for European music
@wooshifgay462 Its 100% european.
@wooshifgay462 Also its "Enharmonic"
@wooshifgay462 This piece was written in 1555.
@wooshifgay462 Europeans were using Just-intonation at least during some of Baroque. I don't know if that's considered microtonal but it isn't equal temperament and can be hard to harmonize some chords much like with microtonal systems.
@wooshifgay462 completely incorrect, equal temperament only became standard around the 1850s. before then meantone temperament and other non-equal temperaments were most common, and those contain microtones. f.e. 1/4 comma meantone has 17 tones per octave
it would be interesting to hear also some voices played alone, in order to understand better what's going on melodically.
ruclips.net/video/YtTSaW45moU/видео.html
Sound is so antique, so authentic, so mysterious. I don't really pick up the mean tones, however
Meantone makes the thirds pure and it's why the shifts in tonality are so stark.
Love this so much! Thank you!!!
Marvelous. Mystical.
The way that he uses consonance to manipulate the tonal center is insane, truly unprecedented compared to the modern western tonal system.
I whish I could understand what you are saying....
@@joseastobiza7710it's complete nonsense, don't worry.
@@Whatismusic123thats not true
@@woodcrawlergaming8083 it's just meaningless jargon
@@Whatismusic123It is jargon but it is coherent (to me at least)
Marvellous!
interesting! do you happen to know the import of the phrase? is there any context that could enable you to make out if the sense is "alas, no more pristine music" or "enough with the stuffy stuff"?
fascinante
This is not a work but just a tasting of sound ^_^
whatever that means
I totally agree, it's not meant to be a 'good piece', but a demonstration of principles and possibilities. The context is a 'cookbook for enharmonic music', not a collection of 'real music'.
@@Studio31plus I agree too... Vicentino's music is more interesting than good ... beside his interesting temperament the music is more conservative than that of his contemporaries (several of them) and pretty strangely the reason it struck and interest us is probably far from his intentions ... I could be wrong but I think that his goal was to have the most "consonant" possible tridas...ignoring the fact that our listening is "oblique" and that for reaching that goal he had to introduces several odd melodic "dissonances".... I think that part of its not full success is due to the lack of vertial dissonances...
for some reason I really don't fully understand, probably connected to the attack of the sound, it sounds even sharper on the cembalo.
interesting thing anyway.
What exactly is the tuning here?
Edit: if i understood it correctly, it's 35 quarter-comma meantone fifths
Maravilha
💖🎼🎶🎹🎧💖💖💖
What's going on with that low G?
Unfortunately, we had a problem with the labium there. Now it's solved ...
what temperament is it in? seems to be something pretty strange
It's an archicembalo, which is tuned in 31-EDO (31 notes per octave).
@@gab_gallard Then some of the keys must duplicate notes, since it seems to have total 36 keys per octave when you add the 2 manuals (19 keys per octave on lower and 17 keys per octave on upper).
Edit: Description here (CC has English translation): ruclips.net/video/YtTSaW45moU/видео.html
Wie ist das gestimmt ?
My post-Bach ears don't understand...
I really try to adapt my hearing, but to me it sounds awful. Sorry.
How are meantones notated?
There are some systems; mostly you use a circle/spiral of fifths as a reference point where gb db ab eb bb f c g d a e b f# c# g# d# a# is the order of fifths; d-f# is a ditone if the fifths are pure, resulting in f# being sharper than gb, and if the fifths are detuned by a quarter comma, d-f# is indeed a pure major third and gb is higher than f#. In pythagorean tuning or 53edo, the interval d-gb is close to a major third and can be seen as "d-f#," but a comma lowered. The tempered systems having strechted or close to pure fifths (17,22,41,53) make use of this distinction, threating ditones and major thirds as distict intervals, while the tempered systems with mostly flat fifths (12,19, 24, 31) aim to reduce the size of the ditone to immitate a major third. In general, one can notate at least 19 distinct notes with just # and b as usual as seen by the split black keys on this keyboard. The second row of white keys with split blacks can be interpreted as quasi-quarter tones and called by the modern half-sharp, threehalf sharp, half flat/d and threehalf-flat db, though the traditional notation continues with regular accidentals: after a# follow e# b# f## c## g## d## a## e## b##... and on the other side cbb gbb dbb abb ebb bbb fb cb gb.
@@Testgeraeusch I had to ask. Be careful what I wish for. I might get it. But thanks for the very detailed answer
@@Testgeraeusch Off the subject, but - I see you haven't found a way to print a genuine flat sign either, so you get ebb bbb, etc. Anyone know a way to avoid this?
@@richardholmquist7316 Probably something like: ♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭♭
(taken from the wikipedia article on accidentals; if i'm to lazy to look for a special character i just search for it and copy the text)
The changes at 1:23, 1:35, 1:45 feel antimusical to me - does Vicentino prescribe such sudden change?
Yep he does. To modern ears it obviously sounds very weird… But I think it’s kinda cool.
@@ComposedBySamIt must have sounded just as weird back then.
@@reinpost enharmonic.
What is the brand name on that organ? Please.
It's not a brand, the instrument was hand crafted by Bernhard Fleig and his workshop in Basel, Switzerland. It's a unique prototype, so far there is only one of them in the world, as far as we know.
Quarter tones.
Fifth tones actually
Beginner ?
Maybe no
Elaborate?
Strange. Interesting. But not nice to hear.
The instrument itself isn't the most pleasant piece of work to hear, but the musical concepts do sound quite intriguing. I figure if this piece were played on a more proper organ of the same tuning system the piece would sound much better.
Not to me,
its sound is very interesting. The possibility of microtonality and to apply the just intonation, or others temperaments,
even more than a hand crafted prototype, it's a great lesson in aesthetics.