CA18DET Variable Twin Turbo Start up
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- for up to date progress on the car have a look at my Facebook Page: / styleslider400
i have to give credit to twinchargedca18 for the cool idea with the bypass valve and turbo actuator. quick explanation of the setup down below.
thanks for your patience and sorry for the long wait on another video guy's i really wanted to get this setup done with out having to work around a camera, only a few jobs left to do before tune time which it badly needs in this video with all the new mods, the manifold is very responsive considering injectors are 70% further away from the flange plate on this manifold so the injector timing will be way out and a larger throttle body with a different type of throttle position sensor which will probably need re calibrating on the ecu. on the exhaust side,
- exhaust air flows through a Garrett gtx2860 then into the gtx3076,
2x 60mm turbosmart waste gates flow exhaust around the gtx2860 turbo and into the gtx3076 when a desired boost pressure is obtained then a final 60mm waste gate controls overall boost pressure for the 3076,
- Air intake runs through the air filter through the gtx3076 turbo then into the gtx2860,
the air coming out of the small turbo plumbs into the bottom of the intercooler then into the intake manifold. the small turbo should create boost quickly when the small turbo has ramped up to around 12-13psi the big turbo will have all the air it needs to build whatever boost pressure the boost controller is set to (17psi and higher)
when the big turbo has reached a higher pressure then the 2 60mm waste gates spring pressure (ones sending exhaust gasses around the small turbo) the throttle body on the intercooler then starts to open up.
as the boost pressure climbs higher the valve opens up more
the actuator that controls the bypass valve gets its pressure on the alloy pipe brass fittings fitted in between the large turbo's outlet and the small turbo's inlet, the small turbo should start to loose energy due to the 2 waste gates opening up as the gtx3076 is now working all by it's self and is continually building boost.
-the intercooler is plumbed up like the old one coolant flow's from the radiator after being cooled down then through the intercooler and into the motor then back to the radiator. the intercooler's core has 2x the surface area as the old one so a much lower pressure drop across the core should be gained.
The way this engine idles is like its breathing, thinking on its own. Driving this must be a surreal experience.
Allrrriiight one last youtube video before bed, let me just click on this..... (ends up going through entire build, 4 hours later).... alllrightt that about wraps it up.
Takes a minute or two to fully realize how this thing is built, its a piece of engineering art. Really hope it works and puts up some healthy numbers on the dyno! Good luck, its a wonderful build!
when you think you are clever and think outside the box you stumble on this.. and then you tell yourself you're an amateur.. congrats on the spaceship. looking forward for the liftoff.
+Daniel Lelievre cheers man this setup didn't work the pipe size choice was to big and the whole setup when it was all put together with the 2 turbo's was to heavy so i am going back to a single turbo but this is defiantly not the average single turbo setup.
Live and learn. Still the balls of the design was epic. I've got a 280zx and a 300zx that I'm starting to rebuild this summer and your videos gave me ideas. Today I went and bought my argon tank+regulator and I cant wait to start. Your injector distance from valves theory is 180 degrees from what I learned but I believe there is something there and I will test that for sure.
+Daniel Lelievre cheers man, yea with the fuel injectors its the vapor that comes off the droplet's that make's the engine actually run not fuel as a liquid, the finer the mist and more fuel you can evaporate into a gas before ignition the better your engine and turbo will respond and fuel efficiency will also be improved.
styleslider400 that is the very reason the volkswagen pump deuse “PD” engines were so good.
there's a fine line between genus and crazy. all I have to say is "brilliant!"
honestly Ive been waiting for an update mate, your incredible!
You are a heck of a fabricator man.
Second that KMR TV! A very fine line indeed! and these lads have most certainly gone against trends and the easy way. Two thumbs up from a true appreciator, not a hater when it comes to kickass fabrication. Bloody well done👍👍🤯
You can be reaaaaaaally proud of you, because what you've done there is an amazing and impressive job !
Craziest and best CA build at the same time, i'm lovin' it :D.
Amazing craftsmanship! Good work :-)
that is a unique looking engine bay. Looks like a lot of R&D went into it!
looks so fun engineering this stuff, awesome!
That looks so awesome! Great job man! Looking forward for more! ;)
you are a god at welding/fabrication
I saw something OEM the Throttle Cabel :) Nice work :) hope to see Video's onboard when you drive the Beast :)
congrats mate very well done it looks like you're using your brain. Nice music . Keep up the brilliant work.
i was watching this with a few friends the other day, and everyone kept asking. "he's just doing this with dubstep tracked over the video? perfect" i said no, he gives technical info and direction. My friends kept saying how great it would be to just watch fab with dubstep, like at a party, or in the booth at the track (like playing in the background). I love what you have to say but it sounds like you could make a good living being a silent artist, and the editing would probably be alot easier lol.
Holy fack, the fab work........ the dedication.........mind......blow'n!!
Besides using filler rod where you didn't need to your works unbelieve-able. Mad respect to you, especially for not taking the easy way out with a v8/doing the same old same old. Best of luck man, looking forward to seeing how much more performance you were able to squeeze out of that CA18
+MechRider89 cheers man
Looks sweet man good job
jesus.... a masterpiece
awesome job! cant wait to see it go like hell! crazy build! crazy cool!!!
Love it ! Can't wait for dyno !
dam that beast look like a 7 sec s13 sick
beatiful work
Absolutely Genius
I just have to say, I absolutely love the setup you have here. I literally wrote down the exact same idea for a compound setup because of the over boosting of the smaller turbo was a big turn off for me in a reliability stand point. Keep up the great work and please show us ASAP what kind of performance you achieved!
+Conn0isseur that's cool to hear man will do.
If I may ask, how's work going on it?
+Conn0isseur Dana i just finished the car 2 days ago and it is ready for dyno tuning i am waiting to hear back from my tuner to confirm some dates.
That's awesome to hear. I'm excited to see the curves and of course the numbers. Thanks for that teaser. :D
WE WANT UPDATE ON THIS CAR DUDE! :D CMON
Awesome, wish I could do shit like this, congrats
There is a number of reasons why that intake should not work. I still love the fact that you made it anyway.
When are we gonna see it on a dyno? It's really interesting.
You got some real skills....
+ZenUp Mo and all that for nothing it didn't even work :( going back to single turbo back to what i know will work problem was the exhaust was to big in volume for turbos to build boost and the whole setup just weighed to much need to get light again.
+styleslider400 Still is an impressive build and thoroughly done & researched. Your efforts and the clear way you documented the process is very inspiring. Respect....
+ZenUp Mo thanks
5:20 for start up.
Thanks. :)
What ECU did you used and did you needed to add a throttle sensor on the throttle body for the ECU?
Could you tell me what is the flexible tubing you use for the intake? :)
Oh and what about the coolant lines?
No Dyno? No driving impressions?
King.
WHAT HAPPEND WITH THIS CAR?!!! NEEEEEEEEEEEEED UPDATES MAN!!! SOOOOOOOOO GDMN SEXY CA
Fucking awesome
Very nice work
Really nice work dude (:
+Zebra369 thanks.
Yo that's nice u got skills
Would LOVE to see an update on this?
oh
was going to do ur "air side" set up with 2 massive diesel turbos
Holly shit! Did you design that bypass to basically recirculate boost while off throttle !?? Seems fucking brilliant !
do you have any videos of the car driving or with it revving ... i would love to hear a few wot!!!
CA18 FTW
Niiiiccccccccceeeeeee
Love that build, since I own a CA18DET too.
But isn't this more a Bi-Turbo setting as the second turbo turns on after the first one hits the defined pressure? I thought Twin-Turbo settings are exactly two similar turbos running parallel.
Anyway...awesome!
+Marco Lima
this is how my turbo's are plumbed up
when you watch this video think of the rpm stages he talks about as boost pressure
not as engine rpm
as the actuator's and waste gate's work off of pressure i have 2 60mm waste gates as my exhaust bypass valve
ruclips.net/video/DRcmgibm-aA/видео.html
Welds are terrible.But you did it by yourself.Congrats i love it i'm waiting for the rideout video
if you cant get one of those adj AN wrenches take some masking tape and wrap the tips of your adj wrench to keep from scratching up those expensive AN fittings
I want to see those turbos spooling really bad. Do you have any videos of your car running?
Amazing work/fabrication but seems really complicated like trying to reinvent the wheel
Cool project. Why not just run the turbos in a traditional compound setup?
Beautiful job, but I think a little over done for what your actually going to get for boost response and threshold. Using a CA20 crank and a GTX3076r with a .64 a/r would be sufficient.
that's the plan now, normal high mount setup with that size housing you mentioned with garrett's new version 2 turbo should do the trick.
Mad respect man! Love this build and all the little things you're trying and experimenting with.
Just a question or two
:
You've got a compound turbo setup there...wouldn't the bypass valve (TB on the IC) actually reduce the effectiveness?
The 2860 acts like a pressure multiplier for the 3076 (turbo's don't care what the pressure of the air is that's fed to them, it just multiplies it a set amount) and if you start bypassing the 2860 with the actuator controlled TB, you'll be loosing out on that boost multiplication.
Is that intended?
+Henco Booysen
when you watch this video think of the rpm stages he talks about as boost pressure
not as engine rpm
as the actuator's and waste gate's work off of pressure i have 2 60mm waste gates as my exhaust bypass valve
ruclips.net/video/DRcmgibm-aA/видео.html
+styleslider400 Ah ok, so you running the setup as a sequential twin setup and not a compound setup. If you ever want to run crazy high boost, you can just not enable the bypass valve on the compressor side and run it as a compound setup :-) The 2860 won't be a restriction as it's physical dimensions isn't that small...especially for a CA18DET.
Looking forward to the dyno numbers and more importantly the graph!
+Henco Booysen yep you got it now!
the 2860 compressor is only good for 400hp but the 3076 is rated 640hp so i would say that the 2860 will start to be a restriction above 400hp of airflow this is what the bypass vale is for.
and yea the graph is what i am more interested in.
on paper the 2860 with a 0.57 exhaust housing should make 13psi of boost ( exhaust bypass valve spring pressure ) at around 3000rpm (intake bypass valve set at 14psi)
with the 2860 making 13psi there is now more then enough exhaust air flow going through the small turbo to make what ever psi you set the 3076 which will be around 27-30 psi
if i do not have the small turbo to build boost quickly and just ran the 3076 on it's own with the 1.01 exhaust housing currently on it 30psi will be made a 5500rpm's
so on paper 30psi from the gtx3076 at around 3000-3500 could be possible all the way to 8000rpm's let's hope it work's like the numbers are saying would be cool to see how much torque can be made out of this setup.
+styleslider400
Awesome stuff...should make for a very sweet curve if all the maths work out.
Oh and the 400hp limit of the 2860 is with atmosphere in front of the intake, if the 3076 pressurizes the air fed to the 2860, then the limit of the 2860 will be way more than 400hp. There's a awesome thread on some DSM forum I stumbled across one day of a guy running a compound setup on a 4G63. He made awesome power with a brilliant curve. If I remember correctly, he ran a stock 4G63 turbo and a Holset HX50 or something mad. Check it out if you got some time, was a brilliant read.
so the primary turbo pulls in hot engine bay air. then compresses it and heats it. then that air comes out and some of it goes to a secondary turbo through the y. where does the other leg of the y go. why would you use this set up instead of just a single with a cold air intake pulling air from outside the engine bay?
That's what I have been waiting for. looks fantastic. so what pressure does the bypass shut/open or is it progressive. how on earth are you tuning that as you will have made the turbo compressor maps pretty much useless. haha
+Chris Duke i will probably make a run down video explaining how all of this is supposed to work as a few people will be asking similar question's. the bypass valve actuator opens up around 14psi (the small turbo waste gates pressure is set at 13psi) the actuator gets its pressure source from the alloy pipe coming from the large turbo and feeding the small one where the brass fittings have been taped into so this valve opens up only when the big turbo has pressurized this pipe and is ready to take over the small one.
+styleslider400 deffo like the setup. been some real thought and thinking gone into it. you going to still run pump fuel? how much do you think the lag will be down to.
+Chris Duke e85 fuel and on paper and comparing dyno charts to Garrett's turbo flow charts, full boost (30psi) is going to be in around the 3000rpm bracket and rev all the way to 8000rpm.
if i was to run the gtx3076 as a single turbo setup with a 1.01 exhaust housing fitted which i am using in this current setup,
full boost (30psi) would be from 5500rpm to 8000rpm
+styleslider400 wow. that's a lot of boost very early. guessing the engine is forged. I have never looked into e85. not sure I would need to go that far. what sort of cfm ranges do the turbos run up? hope your brakes and suspension are ready for this.
what's going to be your next limiting factor then? loads of questions. lol.
30psi at 3k is going to spin tyres for fun now. you need sequential next.
+Chris Duke yea man i will have to use some low grip tyres for a while before i can save up for sequential lol probably just go for square cut gears first for my gearbox when it blow's.
yes the engine is forged everything inside is rated to around the 800hp number but it's just not practical and reliable for a 4cyl to run those number's if your chasing reliable power that doesn't do damage to the motor
if you go on garrett's site and look at the flow maps they are measured in pounds ( LBS ) 1 lbs is around 14.5 cfm if you forget this number the easy way i remember is 1 atmospheric pressure is 14.5 psi (sea level)
pretty interesting that they are the same numbers.
yea brakes should be ok suspension would need upgrading down the track to better quality components. limiting factor would be gearbox strength,
steering angle
and the weight of the car
it is still running electric windows in the doors,non light weight panel's besides the hood
and just that all this fab work that has been done has added a fair amount of weight to the car and there would be no benefit in weight reduction if i dropped a 6cyl or v8 in the car so that's a positive side to the way i look at of the whole setup that i have made,
it's defiantly not a light car but it's something different and pushing the boundaries on what you can fabricate which i like about it.
yea 3k 30psi should be enough,
the torque curve is what i am interested in,
a 400kw turbo full boost around 3k will be interesting for torque number's.
Omfuuuking god this shitt is so kooool yo
Is this stock?
+Alex Carrington yes officer all stock.
Okay, you are under arrest for lying, obstructing, trying to flee, assault, harassment, being here, being there, and the rest we can discuss in court.
I admire your patience in building that thing, but aren´t you running over the bridge for water here? The Ca18 can produce over 700whp with just a part of everything you got under that hood, and belive it or not, 5 days a week. The maintainance is something like an 80`s mazda. Not harder....
guess I'm the only one who thinks this is a ticking timebomb
Fuck me dead, this things a beast
What are the spring rates of the bypass actuator and the first waste gate? At what pressure will the second turbo start to be fully utilized? I'm thinking of going SC12/14 twin charged my self. Awesome job though, loving it.
+Felix Gonzalez first turbo wastegates will be set at 13psi and bypass set at 14psi going to have a bunch of springs to adjust this on the day will probably need to. cheers
when are you posting the dyno video bro???
How does it effect performance not having an intake plenum?
Iam trying to figure out how the twin turbo in one works , what the pressure throttle does , can you make as a diagram of the 2win turbo set up if is able thanks
the setup is not the in car anymore was a waste of time.
Hey mate, awesome build. Engine bay looks unreal. Where did you get the hose for your catch can? I've been looking for hose like that with the internal coil Spring and haven't had much luck yet.
+Mick D the hose i have is aeroflow's pvc breather hose here is a link for ya. www.aeroflowperformance.com/hose-tube/reinforced-clear-pvc-breather-hose/af315-reinforced-clear-pvc-breather-hose
+styleslider400 thanks mate
Was this all on your own?? Id practice my welds a little bit more
Подскажите размеры щупа на этом двигателе пажалуйста!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
still waiting on a update man!
+Seth Thomason the setup didn't work mate i couldn't make boost on the
dyno only 6 psi the exhaust pipe work was to big in volume and just to
dam heavy all up, going back to single setup, making the radiator frame
out of alloy 2/3 lighter then steel frame i original made (almost
finished), have to make a new exhaust manifold for single turbo will not
be a normal single turbo manifold tho bit of a twist from what i
learned last time on dyno and talking with tuners with pipe size, and
will be fitting a front mount intercooler. lost interest for awhile
that's why its been so long now slowly getting back into it tho
Any updates ?
Isn't there going to be a lot of heat generated by this setup? Are those hoses rated for that?
+Kyu1LL waiting on some more fire/hose sleeving to come
Where did you learn what you know about cars and your fabrication skills?
+Nissan Supra AMG i done an apprenticeship as a panel beater which have a lot of skills to do the trade and learned how to paint cars on the side which gave me a good kick start for knowledge on lots of bits and pieces with anything on cars, from there what ever it is that i am trying to do on the car i need to spend the time to do some research and understand what it is that i was trying to achieve as there is no car fabrication shops around where i live that do this sort of thing on cars so i was going to have to do a lot of it myself so i done a lot of homework countless hours of watching what other people do, spent the time doing my homework and then put all the knowledge i have gained into practice and see what happens if i was not happy with how it turns out take note of where i went wrong and where i can do better and try again. so besides all of the bodywork and paint job on the car, everything else is self taught.
***** Thanks! When i'm a bit older i would love to do this kinda stuff to my own project car. By the way this engine bay looks very professional and clean :))
+Nissan Supra AMG thanks mate.
How is the project coming along? Any new updates?
+Like ZO +Like ZO the setup did not work due to pipe size that i used which was
to big in total volume and made the setup struggle to make anything over
6psi of boost, the whole setup by the time i finished all of the work
the twin turbo setup is really just to heavy so i am going back to the
single turbo, with some knowledge that i have gained from what pipe
volume can do to your turbo setup i will be doing a custom single turbo
manifold that will hopefully replicate what the whole idea is, with
running 2 different size turbo's while using a single turbo. just lacking
motivation at the moment i have just about finished a new radiator frame made out of aluminum which saves 2/3 of the weight comparing to the old frame, then i can start work on the new turbo manifold and fit a air to air intercooler as the water to air intercooler in a loop with the engine coolant was not doing any favors for me.
What is that thing like throttle body? that color blue that is opened by at wastegate actuator?? what is that for?
+Lawrence Dela Cerna the turbo to the right of screen spools up feeding air trough the blue butterfly into the intercooler and engine when the butterfly closes the compressed air is then forced into the inlet of the front mounted turbo for mad scientist compounded boost........get the fuck out this mans way
ah,. :D thanks mate
:D heheh
is it a ca18 or a ca20, i remember watching one of your older vids saying it was a ca20, regardless its the most custom engine job done by one man
+TriniRogue ca18det with 2 liter stroker kit hence ca20, its a shame that all the fabrication work was for nothing the setup didn't work.
***** dannn you serious man :/ did it just not provide intended results or it just didnt perform at all?
+TriniRogue exhaust manifold was to big in internal volume so this caused the turbo's to not make much boost was like only 10psi max at 6k. yea not a good feeling, you live and learn i guess.
***** Yeam man for sure, if you dont make mistakes either you wouldnt know what rly works or not, keep at it man you do amazing work
What did you use for ceramic coating? I've had my eye on Zircotec White Performance due to the nature of my build but the price is up to the roof.
+Mikkonen012 not sure what brand the ceramic coating was i just took my pipes to a exhaust shop that do ceramic coating and they used a black ceramic coating which is there best coating they have for racing use that's all i know mate.
+styleslider400 If we refer to headers/turbine housing, the problem with coatings/thermal wraps is that anything with a rating below 1000 C won't hold on a long run. (I've had thermal wrap with 800-900 C rating that just disintegrated after a few couple thousand kilometers)
The best coatings I've found online are from Zircotec, they come in two applications
- Performance Colours - rated 900 C (great for diesels)
- Performance White - rated 1400C (for petrols)
For Performance White I've been given a quota of about 400 pounds (without transport&taxes) to do a 3 cylinder header+ turbine housing, which is just bonkers since I can do the headers+downpipe with 1600 C thermal wrap for about 50 pounds.
And believe it or not, I don't even have space to fit a turbo blanket :))
On a different note, I see you have EGT sensors for each cylinder? How are the temps fairing?
+Mikkonen012 ok sounds like your doing your homework the only thing i worry about with exhaust wrap temp rating,
is the continues operation temp rating i have seen some cheap brands which have very good short time exposure temp ratings but there continues use temp rating's are not very good, my old turbo housing that only seen a dyno day was not looking to good like your saying it just cant handle the hi temps which was strange as the turbo manifold on the merge collector looked fine no sign of stress from getting to hot so not sure if it was not being sprayed thick enough on the turbo housing or what the issue was i got these turbine housing's done in black coating and well see what they look like after a workout. the car is still waiting to be tuned :( very busy the shop is,
so EGT sensors have only been reading temps at idle on a tune that need adjusting with all the new modification work on the intake manifold as the fuel injectors are 70% further back from the head compared to previous manifold so the car doesn't run that great and would expect to be burning fuel badly out the exhaust manifold as EGT's are around 500-550c lol
+styleslider400
A rating is a rating, it does not matter how you run the engine. If it fails to hold above xxx degrees as advertised then you are buying the wrong product.
As for the collector holding longer hours than the turbine housing, that's seems pretty normal; exhaust gases spend more time inside the housing rotating and thus increasing temps than just flowing through the collector.
A correct coating is not paint, as no paint can hold those kind of temps. The coating is a ceramic based compound that practically fuses with the base material (as if it were welded to it). So if the compound does not meet the necessary temp rating it will most likely ruin the whole thing when run hard.
500-550 on idle sounds pretty good. Remember the highest temps occur on AFR 14.7 no matter the boost you are running, that's just physics.
Both rich/lean mixtures will give lower EGT's than stoichiometric value 14.7.
Remember a tune must be based on AFR's and not EGT's, as EGT's differ from engine to engine.
All in all you have a pretty cool setup, will be curious to see some numbers when the final tune is ready ;)
Cheers!
K2000
how much horsepower ???
5 months after the start up. How is everything going? Waiting for more updates!!!! :D
+Cristian F.P. (Skun) no good did not work exhaust manifold was to big in internal volume could not create much boost pressure. the pipe size i used was to big and i lost to much pulse energy.
+styleslider400 Sorry man :( cheer up! and don´t let this issue let you down! go twing charged CA18 go!!
How much whp
What ever happened to this?
He just made that as if he were making a sandwich, as if it's easy to throw a few turbos under the hood and make it run. I would have ended up wielding my hand to a turbo or something.
amazing
what bypass butterfly valve did u buy
??
ebay throttle body
ebay tb with added pressure gate? or package
with adjustable actuator added yes.
great vids mate did the set up have any downsides
How mutch have you spend on your engine build?
+Anders Woldmo to much,
the amount knowledge/skills that i have learn't and gained i cant go out and buy.
+styleslider400 okei, I'm planing my own build, and are considering doing the same as you, just with an sr20 engine.
+Anders Woldmo would be cool to see when finished, are you going to use the stock turbo then one for hi horsepower at least the factory turbo's could be put to good use with these types of setup's then you still only need to buy 1 turbo.
i don't know yet, planning for 650-700 whp, so i don't know if the stock turbo is up for the taks..
Why....
music is ....
Twincharging is a little bit easier with a diesel engine. 1.5 Bar(21,75 PSI) without load.. :)
ruclips.net/video/MxfjTQdOGYA/видео.html
Песня как будто я в менюшке игры нулевых
Horrible welds bro