Growing up Mormon (Part 3) - My Temple Experience
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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MormonThink has done an excellent job of comparing the elements of FreeMasonry that correspond to the mormon temple ceremonies. You will also find a list of changes made to the Endowment ceremonies, with dates and substantiating documentation.
www.mormonthink...
Also, if you want exact wording of each ordinance with the changes made:
www.ldsendowmen...
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Watch Part 1- Why Mormons Believe
• What It's Like Growing...
Part 2- Why Joseph Was Killed at Carthage
• Growing Up Mormon (Par...
Part 3- My Temple Experience
• Growing up Mormon (Par...
Part 4- Finding Out About the Book of Abraham
• Growing Up Mormon (Par...
Part 5- Why It's So Hard Finding Out You Were Wrong
• Why Our Brain Holds On...
Part 6- Why Did I Believe Lies?
• Why You Accepted the N...
Watch the Damage Done in Mormonism:
Part 1-Crazy Rules I Followed as a Mormon
• Mistakes to Avoid as a...
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Did anyone have a similar experience going through a mormon temple endowment ceremony? I'd love to hear your story too.
Want to binge-watch the whole story of my Mormon Awakening? You can watch the rest of the series here:
ruclips.net/video/gl7CjDfSM9I/видео.html
No, because I took a temple prep class and was also spiritually prepared.
As someone who seriously considered becoming Mormon, the Temple was a huge red flag. First century Christians NEVER built temples. The church claims to be "restored" Christianity but then adds new stuff that first century Christians never practiced. It can't be both ways. It cant be "restored" to the original but also include "new and improved" aspects too.
My first Temple Endowment ceremony was so bizarre to me that, while I was in the Endowment, I was wondering if the Church was, secretly, a cult (rituals, etc.)!!!
Can you please demonstrate the rituals before 1990 and after.
@Jim Anderson There was always Jesus and his atonement. That is the basis of the Mosaic Law, to point us to Christ. There is only one Savior and Redeemer and one way to be forgiven. It has always been through Christ. The temple continues to point us to Christ and to His redemptive plan.
My mother took me to the Deseret bookstore back when I was engaged. She had me go try on temple dresses, and I had a panic attack in the dressing room, out of nowhere. I started to cry, and started feeling like something wasn't right. I looked at myself in the mirror, in this frumpy white skirt and blouse and hated what I saw. I felt stripped of my identity, I didn't feel the least bit feminine. It didn't look like...ME. It felt wrong. I tried ignoring that feeling and kept trying on dress after dress until finally I broke down and left empty handed. I think that was the very first red flag I ever experienced. It wasn't until 3-4 years later that I started researching and came to the truth.
I had a serious breakdown too, my first time through the endowment session! I was so paralyzed with shock that i didn't say the last part of the ceremony where they are chanting and raising their arms in the air. I thought I was supposed to go back and redo the ceremony because when you get baptized if any body part comes out of the water you have to redo it right? God's ordinances were supposed to be super exact! Yet no one could give me a clear answer about whether I needed to redo it or not. I knew something screwy was going on if something was supposed to be so exact, yet no one had a clue what to do.
The truth shall set you free. Run as hard as you can from this cult.
Why doesn't every female have that experience? What is your thought?
@@stanleyhall8951 Every person has to have their own experience in deprogramming cult trauma.
@@stanleyhall8951 some men have a shocking experience, too, not just women.
One of the oddities before entering is the whole temple prep class - they give you this big lead up - basically not telling you any specifics, but you get alot of advice and cautionary statements to the effect of "God's ways aren't like man's" and "it may shock you a bit" etc.. Then when you walk out, you have those who may have accompanied you, look at you sheepishly and say "Well, was it what you expected? or "what do you think? , and I had to fight the urge to say "That was kinda batshit crazy!"
Truly a seminole moment that none are ready for - since in essence you are acquiescing your free agency on a whim and are subject to the group think peer pressure as you stand amidst the died in the wool, through and through Mormon worker bees.
And I must say your timing was impeccable! God is working in mysterious ways indeed!!
Great job!
Thank you so much! It's so refreshing to hear people who can be open and honest about their feelings without fear of judgement or repercussion for not reacting the way everyone else says you are supposed to react. It's so much like the story of the emperor's new clothes, it's crazy.
I think you mean "seminal." A Seminole is a member of a certain native American tribe, or, as in in my wife's case, a Florida State alumni. Otherwise, a great input.
@@zachgarver7922 Point well taken... thanks
thanks for sharing such well-thought comments on these videos. Would love to hear your thoughts on my most recent ones :)
Yes yes yes! Amazing video! My first time temple experience almost EXACTLY!!! The only difference was I put on my best brave face while it was happening and it wasn't until later that night when I had a mild panic attack to my parents about it. They were very nice about it, but definitely acted like they had never heard of anyone having this reaction to it before. But yeah, the temple is a creepy cult house horror show. All your adult extended friends and family there smiling like you're really about to receive enlightenment once and for all, then it's all secret handshakes and weird chanting in circles and seeing people you've known and respected your whole life do all these weird rituals in the dumbest looking hats and costumes you've ever seen. At 18 years old it really fucked with my head. A living nightmare.
I hate the gaslighting of them being like "what, no one else in the world thought that was weird but you!!"
I had exactly the same experience 18 years ago! You do an excellent job explaining how many people feel going through the temple, but they’re afraid to say it. Thank you for being so brave to put this out there!
Thank you so much!! It makes me happy to help people not feel so alone!
My wife and I were looking forward to our endowment. We walked out afterwards and looked at each other in absolute disbelief. We got home, removed our temple garments (binned them) and have never set foot in a LDS building again. So God knows so little about us that we need a secret sign to get into heaven? We have since found a God who knows us somewhat better I am pleased to share.
@@johnlee1352 Feel free to have even more of their joy - join them, John.
So happy to hear your story and your journey!! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on my channel ♥
My first time in a Mormon Temple (Seattle) I LOST my faith in the Church. I was expecting a spiritual experience, I got the opposite of that. However, within a few days, I convinced myself that "I" had the "problem" and was "not spiritual enough" for the Temple experience. I served a mission. Big mistake. I resigned from the Church in 1996. Best decision of my life.
@@johnlee1352 You're the typical self-righteous "Latter-day Saint" I learned to NOT love. I'm actually very happy being NON-"Latter-day Saint". I don't believe I'm pathetic. What is "pathetic" to me are MORmONS sitting in their suits for 3 (now 2) hours a day every Sunday, listening to the same "Follow the Brethren" indoctrination they have from birth, believing in magicial stones and elephants and honey bees in wooden Jaredit submarines, while they "think" they're gonna be boffing many gorgeous young girls (including some of their spirit-daughters) on "Earths" they create with their All-Mighty Priesthood. Now THAT is not only PATHETHIC it is also "Pathologicial".
@@johnlee1352uhhh... what a loving, christ-like response....
@@AenonEMoss thank you for sharing your story. I'm happy that you're happy! -from an LDS member
John Lee People have the choice to do good to serve God.
It was SO everything BUT Spiritual, that was the part that got me the most. If this was the pinnacle of everything in the church and it was the opposite of a spiritual experience, then what else was there???
I went through the temple in a live session in 1978. I was married cively because my husband had just joined the church. I remember thinking this is what I waited my whole life for. People kept telling me to keep going and I would learn more each time. Once at the veil I kept saying one word wrong and the person behind the veil would not let me go through. I was so embarrassed. I left the Mormon Church in 1996. I am a born again Christian. Right after I had left the church. I woke up in the middle of the night..the last words in the Temple ceremony ran through my mind spoken by Satan... "If you don't live up to the covenants you have made in this temple this day you will be in my power!" No one can live up to all those covenants !! This just reaffirmed to me that this was not of God. So grateful to know a loving God today, and for his grace.
So glad you got out! Thanks for sharing your experience. ♥
Judeane Carter I am so glad you found the God of grace! So many religions can make you feel defeated because you can never live up to the man made laws! My favorite saying, But GOD!
Temples are where satan lives...
Another great video! I was also in complete shock when I went through the temple. I had a had the temple preparation classes and I was getting married two weeks later so the pressure to stay in that room and go through with the endowment was very real (plus my whole family and future in laws were there too). I believe that once I'd been through the temple for the first time I pretty much stopped receiving answers to my prayers, I just couldn't feel the spirit much at all anymore which was devastating to me because I'd always been a very faithful believer and I had always had a great relationship with my heavenly father. It took me 10 years to leave the church after my first temple experience and it took leaving the church to finally discover who I am and finally start growing spiritually as an adult.
I relate to all of this so much. Thank you for sharing your story.
My mom made me feel bad as well for not thinking the temple experience was special and spiritual. My experience was just like yours. And it’s so nice to hear other people say they also thought it was weird and creepy and cult-like. I want a redo on my wedding experience
me too! Such a nightmare, the opposite of the wedding every girl dreams of having.
My first temple experience was when I was only 20. I went to the Logan Utah temple because that is where I was living. The washing and anointing was very embarrasing. I was quite a shy person. The endowment was was a live session with old people playing the parts. I thought it was freaky and kind of scary especially when they came to the part of slashing the throat and belly if you told any of the secrets. I did not even dare talk about it with my husband who at the time was a convert to the church. We just kept going back over the years because of the peer pressure-ward temple nights etc. When my husband after 33 years of marriage wanted a divorce the relief society president that had replaced me wanted me to go with her thinking it would help. Instead since it is all about eternal marriage it made me want to just leave this world but instead I ended up leaving the church and found the real Jesus. Now I can look back and see Gods hand pulling me out of a damaging cult. Unfortunately my kids grandkids and extended family are all still very into the church so im a little bit shunned. But with Jesus my life has never been better. He brings true peace and joy with through His agape love. Thanks for sharing your experience.
So happy that you got out! It really is insane that they made people so afraid they couldn't even talk about it with their spouse. I Imagine what a scary person they made people imagine God to be.
Do they not tell you the symbolism for the washing and anointing and why you are dressed that way? I was reading some early Christian records talking about how you take off your clothes like you put off the your old self and, actually, here's a quote:
"As soon, then, as you entered, you put off your tunic; and this was an image of putting
off the old man with his deeds. Having stripped yourselves, you were naked; in this also imitating Christ, who was stripped naked on the Cross, for truly ye bore the likeness of the first-formed Adam, who was naked in the garden, and was not ashamed.
Then, when you were stripped, you were anointed with exorcised oil , from the very hairs of your head to your feet, and were made partakers of the good olive-tree, Jesus Christ.
Which ointment is symbolically applied to your forehead and your other senses ; and
while your body is anointed with the visible ointment, your soul is sanctified by the Holy and life-giving Spirit.
And you were first anointed on the forehead, that you might be delivered from the
shame, which the first man who transgressed bore about with him everywhere [...]" - Cyril
"Cyrils Lectures 19-22 (given 348 or 350 AD)
Cyril of Jerusalem was a distinguished theologian of the early Church (c. 313- 386
AD). He is venerated as a saint by the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox
Church, and the Anglican Communion." - Brett ruclips.net/video/hGRwxUub4XI/видео.html
I see how it could be uncomfortable, but the symbolism can be beautiful. Divorce is very difficult, especially when concerned about eternity. I'm glad you are enjoying your life. I never reached that point after my divorce (not married in the temple, regular divorce is hard enough). I am sorry you are a bit shunned. There are lots of examples of early LDS leaders (and not so early) including Joseph Smith with good discourse on treating other faiths as they should, as children of God. You could share some of those.
The first time I went through, I told my sister, "we really are a cult."
@HEAVEN IS 4 REAL LOL @ the dude who thinks "heaven is 4 real". Perhaps you should get real.
@HEAVEN IS 4 REAL ROFL. Again, says the kid that believes in magical fairy realms. Better to look and sound like a clown than be one my man. ;-) Which is what you are.
@HEAVEN IS 4 REAL Says the child that still believes in a sky fairy that will save you. And believes that a cult of kiddy fondlers have your best interests in mind. Tell me more about your "facts" boy.
@HEAVEN IS 4 REAL ROFL. I know you are but what am I? What are you ten?
@HEAVEN IS 4 REAL ROFL, says the little child that goes by "Heaven is 4 real". BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Are you going to cry now? Hold on while I get some popcorn.
I’m going through a big faith crisis right now and it’s so helpful to have some validate my feelings and the same temple experience.
So happy to be a voice of validation and comfort to those who are going through this traumatic transition.
What happened with you faith?
When I went to the temple I thought omg I’m in a cult. That was my first step to leaving the church. I remember Jeff and I laughing at the ridiculousness off it all when we were inside.
Ditto. I literally threw up afterwards. It was 1983.
Who's Jeff?
When i went through the temple back in 84, i pictured being in the most beautiful place on earth. There would be pictures of the lord everywhere on the walls, things i had ?'s, will be answered, and everything would be so pure. while being in the temple for the first time, I didnt see a picture of any jesus or something good. And the hand justure the video mentioned scared the crap out me too. i had forgotten it ,and this video brought the memory back. I went through it with a member that was a Dr very smart person. And i kept looking at him, i wanted to run out. but i stuck with it all the way through, i figured if this guys smart then this must be right. But through it all i felt like this isnt Gods temple. I didnt feel any questions were answered even, the feeling if this whole mess i got myself in, is this the right thing to do. overall feeling of my first and only ever endowments, it was very hurtful, this is not the mormon church i know as a kid. There is a whole other side to this church. Im glad im not the only one that felt like this. thank you for sharing your video. Keep up the good work. Your doing the true work of the lord. 👍
Absolut 100% freemason ritual
Thank you Megan. You have the courage to discover the facts - truth by your own effort.
God will bless you.
Bethany, you are an absolute delight. Your authenticity and sincerity is so palpable. Your highly credible information is eye-opening. Thank you.
😳 ok, I had heard about the blood covenant (after becoming an exmormon of course) but I had no idea those hand gestures were part of that. I'm literally sick to my stomach right now.
I spent 20 years pondering the meaning of those signs and had no idea until I left the real, horrible, meaning that I was pantomiming killing myself the whole time!
Sherral Smith like the handshakes ?
I thought they were to allow only certain members progress to other places.
@@kylethedalek the video pretty clearly shows what my comment refers to. The signs that mime cutting the throat, ripping out the heart, and slicing the belly.
Sherral Smith I thought they were removed completely?
@@kylethedalek did you watch this video? She explains it. The explanations were removed but not the hand gestures.
Is this good timing or what? I just realized when I posted this today that this is the date that Joseph Smith rose to the third degree as a Master Freemason. ;)
Why I left the Mormon Church and Became a Daheshist: daheshism.webs.com
Aenon, It's true what Jesus said:
"Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many." (Matthew 24:5) It seems like there's someone new claiming to be Christ every day.
These videos are so good. So objective, nothing but the cold hard facts that the Church refuses to talk about. I’ve been on a journey of discovery the last few months, uncovering all the facts and truth that I had grown up believing were just “anti-Mormon lies.” Anyway, I really appreciate what you’re doing because it’s helping!
Thank you so much! I'm so glad my videos are helping people! Would love to hear your thoughts on my recent videos about the transformation that happens when you come out the other side. ♥
I have been a member my whole life in this church and then I finally decided to stop going about a year and a half ago. When I was 12, I started to realize just small things about the church that I didn't like and my brother would always tell me all this information about the church that it does not teach. He showed me a video of one of the temple rituals, I think it was the endowment one. I could not believe my eyes. It scared me. Seeing what they actually do scared me. I didn't get a good feeling about it at all. Now, looking back at church, the whole thing is a cult and ritual. Religions are scary to me. I believe in God still, but i definitely believe in a different God then the church. I believe in a loving God and one that accepts all. My whole life changed after seeing that video, but I just couldn't get away from church until I finally stood up to my mom. I like some of the teaching in the church, I just believe there are false truths in it. I love that they teach to love everyone and that they teach family is important. But i hate the way they make you feel if you have "sinned". I am happier now that I don't go.
I'm so happy to see people getting out to freedom! Would love to hear your thoughts about my most recent videos, about how they don't own the values they are teaching, and how they're actually teaching the opposite of what's healthy in many areas. Much love to you in your journey. ♥
@@BethanyKay
Question? People say that this religion can brain wash you?
How is that done? Been a new convert for just over a year, and when it comes to their religion structure I get angry
But I can't seem to quit?
Do you no longer believe in the Bible as well? Many stories about the pain from sin. I am glad that you are happier. Understanding God is a hard thing when everyone has a different take, sounds like you believe what you want to about God rather than accepting something you might not like- not that I know anything for sure about God other than that he exists, just some thoughts I had reading your comment
I left at about 16 years old.. Took a friend and her family years of working with me to get me to see the lies and deception. I am now hoping my parents get out but they are NOT even close... I pray and hope they do. Glad you got out sister.
Don't give up on your parents. Just love them through the process and pray for them. Did you give up all belief in God or did you find a Christian church to attend? If not I highly recommend Lynn Wilder's book "Unveiling Grace." She found the real Jesus after Mormonism.
@@coachmarc2002 Thank you, yes I pray daily for my parents and trust in Christ to lead the way. My friend and her family are biblical Christians and used that as their only tool to help me learn and see the false teachings of the BOM. I am Christian and very thankful the Lord worked on my heart to pull me out of Mormonism.
@@coachmarc2002 I love anything from Lynn Wilder!
thanks Erica! I think about my family members every day. I've had to disconnect from my parents to avoid the drama. It's heartbreaking.
I actually had multiple experiences in the temple which were very thought-provoking as I stated it was pre-1990 when I first attended and we were doing the throat-slitting motion as well as the other two although actually the words are a bit different from what I heard you mention as I recall at the time. So when I went through pre-1990 we said something like I promise not to reveal the blank token of the blank priesthood along with its accompanying name , sign & penalty, rather than do so I would suffer my life to be taken. At which time the appropriate motion would be made for that particular Covenant and the violation show the oath of secrecy specific to that particular Covenant was acted out. it was a previous version even further back than what we had in the 80s where the language would indicate a promise to be killed in the manner that they symbols indicated as a penalty for breaking the oath rather than just say I would suffer my life to be taken rather than give up this information. And actually for me as disturbing as these death penalties are I cannot say I was really shocked about them at the time since this is supposed to come from the same God who told Abraham to murder his son to prove his loyalty. But running around naked in a poncho with slits up the side and holding it together to avoid complete immodesty was very unsettling for me prior to being given your garment or having it placed upon you in the situation that in and of itself is also very weird cause me to feel very uncomfortable. additionally I had other experience with Freemasons and the Masonic Temple which really bothered me that I have detailed in some of my videos and are a bit along to try to do any voice to text with lousy internet connection at this point on my phone. like you it was Freemasonry and Joseph taking other guys wives that got me to the point where I decided I needed to take an objective look at my religion.
Thanks so much for sharing! Yes, there are many more disturbing aspects of the temple ceremony that I haven't shared in my video, one of them being that they had you naked under that cloth with slits in it while they touch your body parts during the Initiatory blessings. The crazy thing is that originally, they did the Initiatory ordinance in an actual bath tub!! So things have definitely become watered down, but are still just crazy, and not the uplifting beautiful experience that it could & should be. I mean, there are so many ways they could change the ceremony to be uplifting and beautiful, but they would have to change the ENTIRE thing because it all stems from a ceremony that was culty, scary, and NOT uplifting.
I never comment anything...
The same thing happened to me! You experience is identical to mine. I was so uncomfortable and disappointed in the temple. And so so angry no one told me what to expect (especially the initiatory part).
Also... My husband and I watched the history channel a lot before bed. One night there was something about the Freemasons. We just sat there in shock. Then doing our own research was such a disappointment. There’s a lot I could say. I was heartbroken. It took years to make peace with everything.
It's such a heartbreaking yet beautiful journey from bondage to freedom. Sometimes it feels like free-falling. But there is a beautiful transformation that takes place when those bonds are free and we can step into our own power. Much love to you in your journey! I hope my videos are helping people who've gone through this process too. ♥
So I'd gone to the temple to do baptisms. Had a major panic attack the last time I'd gone to the temple for baptisms. Went ahead and scheduled my endowments anyways. The day of, I go get in the car with my escort (one of my best friends who like me is a convert, and her husband who grew up in the church). I looked at them and said "I can't do this". I'd never heard God say no to me as clearly as he did that morning. That was two months ago. I searched and searched why I got that answer. The more I searched and read scriptures, the less and less I believed. I'm going to talk to my bishop next Sunday about what the next steps for me look like now that I've lost my testimony and likely won't get it back.
Not even a mormon, but this stuff about Joseph Smith fascinates me, mainly due to how the traditions and rituals are so far out from anything I've heard about from the major denominations that use the Old and New testament as their primary scripture.
Thanks for watching! I'm happy to hear you find it interesting :)
its not so different from early Christian beliefs, now those are interesting
I went when you still had to do the hand motions of cutting your own neck and abdomen open, if you “told anyone what happened in the temple that day.”
We went when my kids were 24 months and 4 months, they were put into a nursery. The place was like a maze. When we had to promise to kill ourselves (per above), I knew right then that I needed to pretend to believe and nod and say, “yes” at the appropriate times, or we might not get out alive. It felt so evil and scary. This was Dec 1986 Switzerland, we lived in West Germany.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience!! Sounds terrifying to have my children staying in the nursery while being upstairs pantomiming the death threats.
I’m gay, and apart from being super weirded out by the ritualistic manner of the endowment, I was mortifyingly turned on by seeing Adam on screen. For years, I carried this overwhelming guilt about it, because you can’t bring that kind of sin into the temple, right? I was so shaken up by how bizarre the temple ritual was, and by my fear of being so perverse to have been aroused by Adam in the movie, I had an anxiety attack later that evening in front of my parents. They encouraged the same thing for me, to keep going back, and that it would all make more sense in time.
I went a lot after my mission. In fact, as part of helping me cope with “same sex attraction”, my bishops would encourage me to go. I never felt good there, in all my years going and praying so hard in the Celestial Room. If by their fruits we may know truth, the fruits of the temple for me were confusion, awkwardness, discomfort, and guilt. Not a good place to be.
Sorry for all the pain and bad stuff Taylor, Coming to the realization about the church was a crushing experience for me, though my story is different from you own. I hope you have found freedom, love, and happiness in your life.
Taylor Averett Hi Taylor. I feel deep empathy for you as well as sadness of how they treated you. I’m gay myself and that’s the biggest reason I keep myself disconnected from any organized religion, because of how they treat people in the GLBT Community. Hearing how my GLBT brothers and sisters are treated in Mormonism is no surprise, and I also am troubled about the fact that parents in the church will allow their 12/13-year-old boys to be questioned alone in a room with a bishop who’s god only knows how much older than them, and have them be questioned by said adults about their sexual thoughts and whether or not they masturbate, that’s fucked up and totally sick!
I hope you’ve been able to find a happy place in your life and are around people who are accepting of you and how you are now. You definitely have my support.
Is Adam naked in the film? I've never been to the temple beyond going twice as a 12 year old.
@@krisvilas1318 The Mormon temple endowment as well as the Masonic ceremonies are all online. You are just a google search away.
@@lashram32 I know. I'm scared to watch them. I'm afraid of being possessed by watching things like that.
As a teen I remember being sealed and doing a couple temple baptisms, on one trip there were two guys in our group doing their endowments for the first time, I could hear them talking among themselves, they were stunned by what they had just experienced, one guy shook his head and said "Gee I wasn't expecting that" they were genuinely shocked and in a state of disbelief, the thing is the church seems normal on sunday's, but gets weird once you go into those temples, I'm glad I left at 19 before I did all that ritual nonsense
It’s all a cult.
Hi Bethany, one of my viewers suggested I look at what you were sharing and complimented you on doing a very nice job so I just finished watching the three videos on your Mormon experience and will try to give a comment responding to your request regarding my experience of the temple ceremony and it's a fact on my testimony and I will also leave you a link to one of my web pages regarding the LDS Church which is specifically oriented to examining the subject of the Temple so I'll do that in a couple of separate comments so they won't be too long and just say here that it was before 1990 that I began going to the temple
thanks for sharing your thoughts and insights. would love to hear your thoughts on my most recent videos as well! ♥
Never understood why they say you're supposed to go over and over because theoretically everyone would go only once for themselves, so it should be able to be digested and understood in one go, right?
Such a tragic waste of the members' time and money, doing something so utterly void of spiritual/psychological health.
I had so much trauma from being a young mother, married outside the temple, guilt, guilt, guilt. I thought that getting my endowments would fix my marriage and my family. My husband wasn't ready at the time so I "repented" by telling my bishop all the things I felt guilty about (there was a lot I felt guilty about) and took the temple classes by myself. While I was there in the temple I felt I had entered this surreal alter universe where everyone acted secretive and strange. I remember getting my "new name" and the lady whispering it too me creeped me out. Then getting my garments and blessed by the ladies. Then the hand signals and rituals in the room with everyone else while watching a creepy movie. Standing in a circle and chanting together, then repeating it all back to the old guy at the "veil." I was in so much shock on my way home, so weirded out. But the weird thing was that I was still convinced that it was the way to save my family. So I convinced my husband to eventually join me and we got "sealed" and you know what? It didn't save us. I had stayed with him through all sorts of things and eventually, painfully I left. I left the church after that because I was confronted with a conundrum. I found out that eating wheat was bad for me. I told my family about that and their response was to tell me "WOW - ie. Word of Wisdom" They couldn't fathom that I couldn't eat wheat because the "Word of Wisdom" says "Wheat is for Man." After that I went through a really long and bizarre time of readjusting my thinking and now I'm pretty much free of it.
What was the movie about?
@@navajorezathlete1202 basically the creation story but the actors keep looking directly out at the audience admonishing them to do everything that they are told to do in the temple.
@@anniepiesky I'm from a big mormon family from page age, lamanite ward and I left home at 18 and I kinda just did my own thing all these years and recently I started going back and I'm getting ready to take that next step. These videos are interesting I like being biased I've always been that way and I just wanna make the best decision and be like all the great men in the church I grew up around I feel like its my time to take their place as many have left this earth. Those are big shoes to fill but someone gotta do it I honestly wouldn't be where I am today without those great men I grew up around.
You didn't even mention the dreaded initiatories. I always LOATHED them, sitting practically naked under a poncho, having strangers anoint your body all over with oil. Especially when they got close to the private parts, it was so uncomfortable. So glad I'll never participate in that again.
I was scared when I heard my mom saying "at least it's not as bad as it used to be! you used to be naked!" LOL. What a way to shock someone about the most "special" experience God has to offer you..... so freaking creepy.
you make your presentation very exciting, even for someone who has known all this stuff for more than 50 years.
it's your sincerity and i'm sure so far as you know truthful in every detail.
i really feel like we're kindred spirits in some way, and i wish we could talk to each other. there being so few people i connect with.
what you say is 100% true. avenging the prophets to the 3rd and 4th generation was part of the temple ceremony.
from brigham young to 1930 every prophet of the church took all the blood oaths you described including avenging the prophets.
all the men who took part in the massacre, were under obligation to perform the duty that they had taken a sacred oath to perform. the church openly admits to the mountain meadows massacre, alternating between feigned remorse and hideous pride.
after reaching down to the bloody bodies, they lifted up their blood soaked hands and arms and reaching up to heaven praised their god for allowing them to fulfill the oath to avenge the blood of the prophets to the 3rd and 4th generation.
if it did not happen as described why didn't it happen? is the god of mormonism different today than in the days of brigham young? does god speak to his mormon prophets differently? how is mormonism different today than in the days of brigham young?
the bodies of the slain are still there. even though their living relatives want to perform a proper burial for them in hallowed ground, mormon utah won't allow the transfer. the mormon church holds a meeting there every year starting off with an inspriational song like we thank thee o god for a prophet.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and insights. I'm so happy my videos are helping people who have left. ♥
Once you get someone to accept absurdities, you can get them to commit atrocities.
soooo true. Realizing mormonism matched up with every indicator in the Cult BITE Model was another massive eye-opener for me.
The church keeps the temple secret because if you knew beforehand you would not go
You are so precious, the Paynes my soul to see so many women especially just really love God and want to serve him it seems to me that the Mormon church is taking advantage of their very pure conscience. I'm dating a Mormon and I see her just struggling in shame. I'm trying to help her see that God is a god of Grace. That God is love. He doesn't demand works for his approval. Thank you for your story I would love to share with her but I don't know how to bring it up
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, it helps me not feel so alone. It's hard to see people struggling with the unnecessary damage caused by religious shame & perfectionism. I hope your friend can find progress on her journey to realizing her value is infinite and not based on behavior. That's what I just made my last few videos about, I think you would like them. :)
You could take an approach put forward by Adam Grant in his latest book Think Again, where usually people come away from disagreements more sure of their position, but a successful approach is to ask honest questions to a person and see where it leads rather than coming in with the mindset of convincing them of your view. Not sure where the shame is coming from, but there are LDS sources on the subject that she may be open to reading that can help and could open more trust between the two of you as you both work together to be open to new ideas
My experience was pretty much exactly the same. I was completely shocked and I thought I was supposed to be a very personal experience but it didn't feel like it. And I always felt so guilty for thinking that. And then the Temple I looked up at the mass of chandelier and thought "how many people could have been provided shelter clothing and food for the cost of that chandelier?"
I blame the initiatory (wearing a somewhat revealing robe with nothing underneath while random person touches different parts of your body) for me not being shocked by the Endowment. I guess it felt nice to be putting clothes on (even if they were goofy as crap) rather than feeling super uncomfortable in the initiatory robe.
Definitely makes sense! I wish I had included the disturbing parts of the Initiatory in the video too. These guys do a great job of describing the Initiatory ordinance changes over the years - nakedness, touching and all. www.ldsendowment.org/initiatory.html
I had a lot of eye-opening moments during my faith transition, but by far, the biggest WTF moment was when I figured out the hand gestures were vestiges of suicide packs. I remember discussing the gestures with friends in the Celestial Room, and conjecturing about different connections to the Old Testament or other possible meanings, like a hand out to bless someone or a hand open to receive blessings - how utterly tragic that in actuality, it vestige of suicide pack! It took a while to figure it out - I had learned about handshake and sign symbols being nearly identical to Freemasonry practice, but it took more research and time for me to realize that hand out stretch symbolized me gutting myself, the hand to the square was me slitting my throat, and rather than accepting blessing with an open hand, I was symbolizing my willingness to tear out my heart, rather than reveal the kooky temple ritual.
How messed up is that!?! Totally blew me away - biggest WTF I've ever had. This was more than just weird and inexcusable history, and lies told to me, this was something I did, something I was tricked into doing, a real violation - it is really devastating when I think about it.
Loving your informative videos!! 👌
ExJW Solidarity! 👍
Thanks so much! Watching videos about the JWs was one of the reasons I realized my church was using similar tactics, and helped me step outside the box! It makes me to happy to see people who are freeing themselves from the limits that were placed on them from their upbringing.
Bethany Kay
I began to wake up reading about Mormons and watching videos of episodes entitled "I was a Mormon"...Then John Dehlin's excommunication was broadcast on television. I started following him and I noticed a ton of similarities between the JW's and the Mormons, this was an eye-opener for me!! After that I got the courage to go to RUclips and look up "Why do people leave the Jehovah's Witnesses faith"..that's when I really started waking up...I became obsessed listening to all ExJW stories on RUclips and the FEAR of the "so called" apostates that we are taught to detest started to become a different reality.. they are just people telling their experiences when they were an active JW and why they left...so all the stigma started to dwindle.
Then I branched out and started looking into Seventh Day Adventist, Scientology, Christadelphians, The Brethren, Christian Science.. I started noticing the parallels between all the religions, and it runs deep...no questioning, no doubting and everything comes from the top down.. The rank-and-file are just the followers with no personal self, no individuality and after you wake up and start seeing these things it can take a toll on you, especially if this is the only thing you have known all your life..it is really tough and then the phobias and the different fears, it can mess with a person's mind..and now I see why a lot of people resort to suicide, it is scary but the good thing is there's help!! The internet has played a big part in all of this!!..
Now I look at people as being just human beings trying to do their best..trying to deal with all the stresses and anxieties in this world.
I can now honestly say that life is better on the outside! 💯
@@southernbawselady7092 your story so beautifully describes what happened for so many of us. Thanks so much for being willing to share your journey! Much love to you!
Bethany, what you may not know is that by 1990, the church had watered down the language describing the penalties during the endowment, to simply "ways that life would be taken." In the original endowment, and for many decades thereafter, these are the words members recited while performing their self-inflicted penalty: "I will suffer that my tongue will be torn out by it's roots and my throat slit from ear to ear", then "I will suffer my heart to be torn from my chest and fed to the birds of the air and he beasts of ther field", and finally, "I will suffer my bowels to be gushed open and spilt upon the ground." This language was taken directly from masonry, and it was disclosed by the church during the Reed Smoot hearings of 1904 (as published in the Salt Lake Tribune). There are reasons my Dad's generation wuld not speak of these things...they were scared to death!
My first time through the temple was in '94. The first weird thing was going to the clothing rental and giving them money to rent clothes before my session. That was the first red flag, as Jesus threw out the people out of the temple that were selling doves and animals for people to sacrifice. Then the washing and anointing process was deeply disturbing as I was being touched all over while mostly naked. I wore a white poncho with the sides completely open for the temple workers to anoint my various body parts with water and oil. While I was greatly relieved to learn there were women temple workers who anointed the women (otherwise, yikes!). But it was still very uncomfortable and I never wanted to do washing and anointings again. The endowment ceremony was comparatively fine.
Over my life, I went to the temple many, many times. They keep saying you need to keep returning and eventually you'll understand the symbolism through revelation. You weren't allowed to discuss the temple with people who knew more outside of the temple, and there was never a time or place where you could really have that discussion inside the temple. Then, a year ago I learned what all those hand signs really were. It was a kick in the gut to learn that the extended thumb represented a knife to slit my throat ear to ear, that my hand extended in cupping shape was to catch my bowels after having my belly sliced open! I would like to think that if I had gone through the temple 4 years earlier and experienced those things myself, I would've fled on the spot. But I was just about to go on a mission, and I was a die hard member. They used to really discourage members from receiving their endowments unless they were about to get married or go on a mission, and I think that's because without that massive pressure to keep people in line, they had to many people leave the church afterwards.
Regarding the changing of the endowment due to a temple survey, I read the survey and I couldn't find any questions in there where people could say what they thought of the death oaths. However, in the 80's, the God Makers video was being shown at other Christian churches around the world on a regular basis where they reenacted these temple scenes in the silly clothes, green apron & the death oaths. Everyone saw those and knew the LDS church was a cult. I think that was the real pressure to make the changes. The wording had already been softened in the 1930s. They used to say:
Stage 1 : "my throat ... be cut from ear to ear, and my tongue torn out by its roots;"
Stage 2 : "our breasts ... be torn open, our hearts and vitals torn out and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field;"
Stage 3 : "our body ... be cut asunder and all your bowels gush out."
After the 1930's changes, it was just: "rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."
Keep in mind, the Masons originally had oaths and penalties in order to determine skill levels of fellow masons as they worked with people from all over the country when they built cathedrals. If workers were given tasks beyond their skill level, they would put all their fellow workers at risk, so death oaths made a lot more sense for their needs. Joseph Smith took those same handshakes and death oaths and used them to secure his inner circle to support his polygamy. Keep in mind that Joseph created the endowment ceremony in 1942, and over the course of 2 more years, there were only a very select few people that received their endowments. It wasn't until 1845 that it opened up to the saints in general. There's no logical reason to think God would only let someone into heaven if they knew a handshake, or that a bad person could sneak into heaven if they knew the right handshake. So, to declare in the endowment ceremony that knowing these handshakes, names & signs would let someone pass by the angels that stand as sentinels to enter into the kingdom of God is really quite ludicrous.
hey, you are so brave... I´m glad you had your awakening... now be happy for the rest of your life... free of guilt... to be the best human being you can be...
Yes, now I'm happily passionate about helping my fellow friends & family out of the controlling situation they are trapped inside.
Would love to hear your thoughts on my most recent videos! There is definitely a transformation that takes place as you emerge from the grief and devastation.
That’s the thing... yes, we’re “out”, but, we’re truly never free. It’s so engrained in our minds and souls that it’s always there. I know what you mean tho. I’m 45 and hide alcohol before parents come over, uncomf. showing my shoulders, etc. 🙄
Dude thank you for making this video. I felt totally sick and I couldn’t wait to get those fucking garments off. I was terrified taking off the garments. I was horrified and completely shocked to shit that they used to act like slitting their throats. I had had enough. They lost my devotion and boy I am so amazed that I bought into it for so long. I could probably destroy all my relationships with True believers by just showing them all the handshakes and saying all the words. It’s insane how much of a bee hive mind Mormons have
WOW!!!!😢Im in Schock now!!
Thanks for your Post
There's a song by Keith Green that goes,
"like waking up from the longest dream, how real it seemed, until your love broke through. I've been lost in a fantasy
That blinded me
Until Your love broke through."
It's one of my favorite Keith Green songs, and it's a Christian song called "Your love broke through".
I wish I could get into the Free Masons. I typically only attend the $4.95 Masons.
Sounds like you need to start your own religion. ;)
@@BethanyKay I already have. It's kind of a mix between Lord of the Rings and the DaVinci Code, except with way more wine and sex ;)
just seeing my mother in her casket this last year in her temple clothing really solidified to me that the lds church is a cult. Like I literally wanted to rip of the veil and everything off my mom and had to hold myself back because I know my mom wanted it because she was so in the church and I was being respectful. I watched my moms friend put the veil on her after the guy at the funeral home said not to put it on her they would do that later I wanted to scream at everyone to leave her alone. I haven't been active in the church for years and have been questioning it for longer then that but that was the first time I ever had thought about it being a cult because I had never been through the temple.
It's largely lifted from the Freemasonic ceremonies which Joseph Smith had felt were apostatized versions of ancient temple rituals. The Freemasons weren't very pleased about him stealing their rituals though and ended up having him killed.
That was my EXACT feeling in the temple....Cult!! I asked God that if he would get me out of there I'd NEVER go back!!!
it's absolutely the least God-like thing I ever thought I would encounter. Thanks so much for sharing your experience so others won't feel so alone.
I felt violated going through the temple each time. I dreaded going and hated the underwear. My first time was out of curiosity becausexi was taught that this is what I was suppose to do. I'm happier I left. Mormons always say that you'll be miserable or that you just want to break the word of wisdom, but I found actual peace. There's so much guilt placed upon you for doing the wrong thing. Smith was a conman and made up the book of Mormon while looking at a rock in a hat and not translating plates. It's part of church doctrine. I say research all you can.
Yes!! I've found so much peace since leaving... an indescribable infinite amount of peace that is always there inside of me. What did you think of my most recent video?
Praise God. Am so thankful for your courage and honesty. You will be rewarded in heaven and I want to say somebody aught to give you a medal in this life for your bravery and selflessly coming forth and declaring the truth!
Its amazing how the Lord makes the weak and gentle, a tiny vulnerable flower of a person to be mighty warrier who vanquishes the adversaries and sets so many others free from the wicked deceptions and bondage of sin!
It is GOD's Holy Spirit that led you to doubt, to question, to research and to EXPOSE this demonic Cult!!
God bless you lady.
Thank you. I think the hardest beliefs to examine are our OWN.
Exact same experience with me...and it was my fault????? So grateful I am out of that cult. Praise God!
Yes!! It is baffling how many people blame the members for not being on board with every thing or even questioning a single aspect of the religion.
Jesus didn't do anything in secret. What's done in the dark will come to the light. God bless you dear child for exposing all of this. You're very brave🙏
... not according to some early sources (about the Jesus and secrets), though everything is subject to misinterpretation, even by eyewitnesses, but hard to state your claim as a fact when you weren't with Jesus during his life and some sources of followers near to when he was alive say otherwise
I had a similar experience, i could not believe that i prepared my entire life for that moment
Right?? It's crazy that no one ever admitted this to each other and we all felt like we were crazy and alone.
@@BethanyKay Well Im not from USA, my first time was in Sao Paulo Brazil temple, I prepared my whole life for that moment, I did seminary, Institute .... But I got really scared when i saw those signs and everything, but my parents said after the sessions that I made the best decision of my life... and my parents still is really hard on me to comeback to church but the church was not honesty with me about church history, i got desapointed when i discovered who joseph smith really was, i did not believe in the church manuals anymore. =(
My first Temple Endowment ceremony was so bizarre to me that, while I was in the Endowment, I was wondering if the Church was, secretly, a cult (rituals, etc.)!!!
That was my thought exactly! But all my family was smiling as if this was some beautiful thing. So much confusion and sick feeling that first time. :(
Joined the church in 1988. First temple experience was in May of 1990. My cousin and his wife who escorted us made mention of a major change in the endowment but not what it was. My wife and were temple workers in 3 different temples and never heard of any of the self harm signs and tokens. I am sorry but this is not of my Heavenly Father. My wife left in September of last year. I am on my way out as well. I was a Bishop in Jacksonville FL just a few years back.
I didn't know about the hand signs. Thanks for sharing. ❤
You're welcome! So many things to learn about down the rabbit hole, it never ends. ;)
The first rule of Temple is you don't TALK about Temple. The second rule of Temple is....
Sit down, shut up, and say yes?
The temple was such a disappointment when I went through
So beautiful and brave to be able to accept this and openly admit instead of pretending everything was happy and normal. That was the creepiest part for me, seeing my family smiling at me like all of this was totally awesome and fine.
Girl, you need to teach Kwaku El the truth!
Who is that?
@@BethanyKay saints unscripted guy
Well done. This is a great video that I can share with my wife.
Thanks for sharing!! How did it go?
whoa it's deeper than I ever thought - thx for telling us even more
thanks so much for watching! ♥
The familial / social / communal nature of one’s initial endowment experience allows one to internally (if temporarily) justify the bizarre nature of the rituals and teachings, and to ignore the vast disconnect between the rituals and the superficial teachings of the LDS church. Without that peer pressure / social support, it’s much easier to see the rituals for what they are.
This entire video is truth. I learned all this too in the late 1990s.
Thank you for adding your voice. I hope you are enjoying the videos on my channel ♥
thank you for sharing your temple experience. I had EXACTLY the same kinds of feelings, except I was sent off half way around the world for 2 years shortly after I went through.
Holy shit!!! What you describe in this video sounds like a demonic cult. I'm shocked this is what my family follows without question!
I can't wait to ask each and every one of my active Mormon family members about this just to see the look in their eyes. I can feel and read energy quite well so just asking them about it will be monumental.
I grew up in Utah and went to church until I was about 10. I was so excited to be baptized, and I remember feeling so proud and honored during the event. After that my memory is really faded. Almost like a mental block! I started skipping the classes and hiding in the bathrooms after sacrament. It didn't feel right. I could feel the judgment from many members as my mom was single, never married, and had 4 children. To this day I am still undoing the trauma of shame, guilt and judgement that was placed on my mother (which bled into me as highly sensitive empath) because of this religion and it's dogma. I'm fascinated by ancestral work and epigenetics so this information shines sooo much light into the dark corners of my mind that I didn't even know existed.
Thanks for your vulnerability!!
I see a lot of people here with bad experiences in the temple, it would be interesting to hear from those who have good ones. But I have seen some people on here say that they took years to decide it was not from them, so maybe you would have to guess which boat they were in. Not that long ago my grandma got sealed to my grandpa (her first husband died young, they were sealed before he passed, so I've only ever known her second husband as my grandpa) after a long life in the church and going to the temple many times, it seems she was one of the ones with a good experience, but sadly she has passed now and I cannot ask her.
Yep, they keep telling you you need to go back to learn more and more and more. When actually you just do the same thing over and over and over. You never are taught more information. You’re supposedly supposed to get “spiritual revelation” to teach you more more more. When in actuality you just get brainwashed and pressured into getting deeper and deeper and deeper into the cult.
I went for years, did every ceremony of the temple. Pre-1990s and after.
It's a pretty smart technique called Pattern-Finding that they've taught the members to develop, which makes it so that you can see things everywhere in your life that reaffirm a belief, whether or not it's actually true.
A further connection between Mormon practice and Masonry is the three symbols on the undergarments. There is one on each breast and one near the navel. Despite church attempts to assign other explanations, they are the symbolic tools aka jewels of the Junior Warden (plumb), Senior Warden (level), and Worshipful Master (square) as they were depicted in Joseph Smith's time. These are the three principal officers of a lodge. Also there are claims morality plays conducted in the Temple are based off such plays in the degrees of Scottish Rite, a Masonic appendant organization
Hey Bethany!! I’m loving catching up on all your videos!!! Would you mind sharing the documentary about the free masons you watched?
I believe it was done by the History Channel or National Geographic. It was on Netflix in 2016 when I saw it. Possibly America's Book of Secrets: The FreeMasons (S1 E2). Or it could be Inside the Freemasons. I just switched to Amazon, so I'm not sure what the name was now.
Not Mormon so I’m not sure how “penalties” and “oaths” are interpreted for that group but in Masonry they are symbolic and not literal. Wanted to make sure that was understood.
Brigham Young had a personal team of enforcers who hunted down the people who left mormonism. He called it the blood atonement, and said that leaving mormonism was a crime that even Jesus' couldn't atone for - you had to shed your own blood to be forgiven, and they did it for you.
@@BethanyKay what source did you get this from? Reputable? www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_doctrine/Repudiated_concepts/Blood_atonement
interesting, so in Masonry they tell you upfront not to take them literally so you don't get scared off?
I had similar experience. I am convert and little psychic/intuitive. Maybe someone can help me understand. When I was baptized I felt something was taken from me in a way. Hard to explain. I convinced myself it was sin and maybe feeling the negative energy from my family. I was only member at the time. But later I couldn't use my intuition as easy as before but could in a different way. Not better just different. As for Temple my stake prez told me it would be odd, ritualistic etc. So I wasn't terribly surprised, but in endowment I looked around and thot "THIS is why they say its a cult" I asked my friend questions but she said its all in Bible. I knew it wasn't. Little later I escorted my sister through. I never forgot her eyes opened wide. She looked at me, kept shaking her head over and over scared out of her mind. I didn't know what to do. So right after we talked to temple Prez and his wife in the office to get answers. He said "its not easy getting to God". Little did I know the club my sister belonged to as a teen was a mansonic group. And they did simi stuff with kids but it was darker. But it looked exactly the same on outside. But the unhidden part wasn't even closed to Christianity.
I'm realizing everyone else feels bad about the temple. Thankfully!
It occurred to me the other day. The idea that the temple will keep getting better the more you go. Ok thats actually true. It does feel more normal the more you force yourself to think it is. But the reality is....that's the SAME way you can feel being a Nazi is good. Same way you can make cannibalism normal. Seriously that's how you do it. Ignore yourself, accept, make sense out of it. With that logic you can become and force yourself to believe ANYTHING.
This is so beautifully stated!!! Thank you for sharing these insights. ♥
I don't know about your intuitiveness (mine left me once puberty hit well after baptism), but it is interesting that people can have such different experiences, my baptism was full of good feelings, as is watching other baptisms after being an adult and questioning the church. I've never been to the temple other than baptisms for the dead (again, good experiences), but I have been looking into temple ceremonies because they do seem quite odd, but really what I'm learning about early Christianity is also quite odd as well as things in the Bible, so how much of the weirdness is cultural? It also seems to me with so many people having bad experiences in the temple they really need to prep people better like they did in the early Christian days and probably not encourage everyone to go unless they were really ready for such a step. The reason for the secretness is on full display in this comment section as making it too common knowledge subjects the sacred things to discourse such as this. It is my thought that really people serious about the temple should know more about what to expect so they can decide if they are ready for that step as each ordinance builds on eachother. (not that I know much, I'm still learning) Anyways, interesting to read about some early church things (secret gospel of Mark, etc.) and that some people can be very uplifted while others are horrified.
My thoughts were pretty much the exact same. Wow. I grew up in a cult. It was all so weird to me. Now I know that if any organization tells you that you have the opportunity to leave before you make promises but they do not tell you what you're going to be promising, you get up and leave then. I was going through it with my now ex so we could get married. I was actually afraid he was going to walk out. After it was over, we hung out and basically laughed at how weird it all was. He said after we gotmarried, he didnt want to go back, neither did I. I became inactive shortly after that and left the church. My mom asks me if I was offended by anything in it years later, and I'm like, ya think? Lol
Haha, thanks for sharing this! So glad you got out ♥
The only thing I have a complaint about is why do we have to have white Jesus pictures in our LDS churches???
That's what you complain about?
@@andx79 that's it yea but it's no big deal really
What a beautiful person you are. Your so nice. Thank you for your video. I’m a strong member. You did a great job sharing. I hope you’re ok
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Did you see all the other ones in this series, about the Book of Abraham and Joseph's Polygamy?
the last words joseph smith said, "o lord my god". he was starting to give the grand hailing sign of a mason, o lord my god is there no help for the poor widows son. so it is recorded by the mormon church. joseph smith's last appeal on this earth was to masonry, NOT THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. so if you're a mormon and you want to stay in the church so be it. but just don't call it christain.
When you research FreeMasonry you will find that it stemmed from Christianity
@@BethanyKay i was raised to the sublime degree 50 years ago. in addition, i have read some things about masonry over the years. i cannot see how the square and compass, 24 inch gauge, the black and white squares, the two pillars severally put up at either side, have any thing what so ever to do with christianity. and may i ask what further light a christian might expect to see upon entering a lodge of freemasonry. having been perfected by god's grace at the cross, why would a man chip away at the rough ashler until the sides are smooth? i really cannot see anything in masonry but thinly veiled baal worship, especially when you consider the square which gives straight angular measurements, compared to the compass which is an instrument used to create soft round features. they are quite obviously male/female sex symbols.
but i am at least open minded on the subject. can you cite any thing at all on the internet to show the vaguest influence of christianity in masonry?
by the way you make you very good videos and your content is very good and very thorough.
I went to the temple once. I’ll never forget how disturbed I felt being there and watching the baptisms for the dead.
Mormons think it’s okay to baptize someone without their permission because the person can “choose” to either accept or decline it.
That’s like someone initiating me as an honorary Nazi but it’s okay because I can accept or decline it. 🤣🤣
And finding out how many disturbing things have happened to people in the temple is absolutely earth-shattering. Have you seen Sam Young's website where he's compiled people's stories of sexual trauma in the church?
@@BethanyKay I found it, but didn't see anything specifically about temples
Well you can, doesn't change who you are or what you believe in or determine how you choose to act, your complaint would be that you don't want to be a Nazi so its disturbing that someone who actually believed it was good and loved you enough to initiate you as one- is the disturbing part their belief or just that someone wanted to do something nice for you that you didn't want?
I was a TBM for twentyfour years. I realized it was all a lie when my husband walked out. He was obsessed with the temple among other things about the church I think that there were evil spirits telling him it was ok to walk out on his family. After he left that's when I questioned the concept of temple marriage. I was told it will be worked out in the eternities that was coming from a bishop. Not a good enough answer for me.
One of the red flags for me was when I realized that the church is hurting the widowers and women who's husbands walk out, by only allowing a woman ONE chance at eternal life by marrying a perfect mormon man. And if it doesn't work out, they and their families are forever stuck in limbo. But yet a man can STILL marry/seal-himself to as many women as he wants - that POLYGAMY IS ALIVE AND WELL in the temple, and it is still hurting women and families RIGHT NOW.
@@BethanyKay I am surprised to know that the men are still allowed to have more than one wife. My sister, who is a Mormon, told me that the LDS aren't true Mormons, and that they don't do that. Is that correct?
You explained it perfectly 😉
Thanks Ariane! Have you seen the other videos I put up recently?
Mormon Church and the Masons have some similarities however both , I believe , may have been copied from the Solomon Temple. maybe clothing from in the old testament.
I love the Temple. I go weekly and proud of my religion.
It was 🤪 crazy!! Been a convert. It was like what??
Where did the Freemasons get their rituals from? I knew about the temple ceremonies being similar to Freemasonry, I was told that the sacred temple ordinances were used when ancient prophets were alive and practices were handed down from generation to generation but lost and changed certain things over time, and that's where the Freemasonry and Native Americans get their ceremonies from, but that the church has revelation on how it needs to be now.
Yes, that's what I'd been told too, so when I watched the documentary and saw that a Protestant man in the 1600s actually made up most of the current freemason rituals and scripting, I realized it obviously wasn't passed down from Adam. And if the Mormon prophet is the one who's supposed to be getting revelation about the temple, why did he go to a freemason ceremony and just copy their ideas for his own? And then, if all these things are supposed to be so EXACT, then why did they get changed so many times? Doesn't seem like God needs them to be exact when he keeps changing his mind and the prophets are just getting random ideas from other groups.
From what can be found textually, it seems that they borrowed some things from Christianity and others and probably made up their own stuff too, but the thought that the ceremonies were handed down from Solomon's temple can be traced to a time when they were trying to get traction in France, so likely it was made up. But early church members did not know that, so I think the rumor continues. What I find interesting is that there are agnostic texts that have been purported to have gotten the teachings from the lost gospel of Mark who had passed on information from Jesus. Christianity had a crazy start!
@@BethanyKay Yeah, it seems the things that are changed are things that God does not need to be exact, it will be interesting to see which things continue through time to see what do need exactness and which things can continue to be changed
@Jim Anderson ALL Christian history? I wonder what your thoughts are as a student on the sources presented in this: ruclips.net/video/hGRwxUub4XI/видео.html
Two good resources about Mormon history and practice are Michael Goes "Mormonism Without Theism" and David Fitzgerald's " The Mormons".
Thanks for sharing!
Pisses me off to the point of anger. Bro I'm so glad Im finding this out now. You better believe I'd never go to the fu@king temple with my adult kids doing those gestures. The reminants of the blood oaths are still present in the ceremony. Still in shock that I've been duped for decades. 🤬😵🤯
Yes I'm a witness I get my endowment about 1987 and I was so confused thinking don't really I'm making a covenant with my savior . It was very disturbing
It's so sad that we imagined the temple would be a place of peace and love, where you'll recognize the connection to God, and instead you are terrified and wonder if God is creepy, demanding, scary jerk that doesn't make any sense.
What does “Endowment ceremony” mean?
Bethany, can you talk about racism in the church? I became LDS member in Brazil in 2009 and staed in the church for about 2 years but I ever want to know more about this subject... An elder friend (I made a great friends in the church) Told me about the mark on the skin of Cain... And this mark in the truth is the black skin (africans, indians etc) and this meaning the in the "heaven" we never can reach the god´s "planet" and ever beeing a slave for all white mormons. Thank u
I think a video definitely needs to be made about that. It is extremely upsetting how racist their doctrines are, and that modern leaders just tell the public they don't have those doctrines anymore, even though they've never changed them and never even bothered to apologize for them.
@@BethanyKay which ones are you talking about that they never changed?
unfortunately that friend was mistaken from rumors going around, the mark of Cain being dark skinned people was never an official doctrine taught by the church. I recently attended a fireside (spurred by the new Junteenth holiday) from a white and black couple sharing their experiences and it was interesting to hear their take on this topic. Fairlatterdaysaints.org has some interesting information about it. I was also watching a video recently with some scholarly take on it, but can't find it now.
@@beefmaster4 Thank you so much for this information, its important we be fair about the truth to talk about that... Again thank you.
7:00 is where u find out what the hand gestures mean
lucky! I had to spend 10 years of my life waiting to find out the spiritual meaning behind those hand gestures! Only to find out I was pantomiming my own death! EEEEK.
I totally read growing-up as a Moron on the first couple videos of you, until I just heard you say:...as a Mormon.
LOLing...............
Lol well I'm sure that makes for an intriguing title!
I would love to speak with you more about this please.
You can contact me here or on Facebook. Thanks for coming to my channel. :)
BETHANY, IN THE ANCIENT ISRAEL the Ceremonies in the Temple of Jerusalem are very well known!
7 👎 mormons made it to part 3 as of 5/8/2019 😂
I went on my mission in 1988, so I went through the temple back when they were still doing the naked initiations and the suicide blood oaths. They still had the character of the christian preacher taking money from Satan in the play too. Yeah, it was pretty freaky.
So many things from the past are just kept secret for the next generation.... it's insane. I'm still in shock that the church vault is a real thing. I just made a video with pictures of it from ldsliving- can't believe how much stuff is kept secret in there!!
Amen I think it's a Colt I go to his house they have a worship band
I fell asleep several times the first time I went through. It was so boring. I didn’t go through for a second time until I was in the mtc and that was several months later. I did not realize until then that it was the exact same thing over and over and OVER. I was confused because people always said, “I learn something new every time I go.” I went through when we were still naked during initiinatories. That was weird.
It's literally the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and telling someone they are learning something!
Repetition is a crucial mode for learning for the human mind. I've never been to a temple endowment, but have definitely noticed that I pick up on different things each time I rewatch a movie or reread a book. Especially since I am in a new state of mind and further development of my life. The 3 repetitions can be found in early Christian documents interestingly. Though I understand the symbolism of the nakedness, I can't imagine that would be very easy for a lot of people
@@BethanyKay that actually is not the definition of insanity but a close approximation of a quote that gets tossed around a lot
@@beefmaster4 A good mormon will go through the temple many thousands of time over their lifetimes. Certainly the ones telling me they learned something new every time had been through a lot. It is NOT like watching a movie a few times at different times of your life. Anyway, you don't "learn" something new every time you watch a movie. You notice different things that you may not have noticed before. The temple endowment is not like watching a Hollywood movie. It is a monotonous story that is exactly the same every time. I'm curious, why does it sound like you are trying to defend this ridiculousness?
@@jayburris6252 I have found a lot of black and white comments here and I recently read a book about learning to rethink that I think everyone could benefit from by opening their minds to different perspectives. I think many thousands of times may be a bit of a stretch even for a "good mormon," but the movie was just a quick example, you can learn something new from a movie if you take something new you notice and think about it and contemplate how to apply it, but in any case it is not the best example. I assume there is more to the experience than just hearing the same story to add to the learning although if you tried, you could learn something new from a short story as well. But I understand that when you have yet to do something, it is difficult to imagine how other people might do it. I am certainly not an expert on the topic. Just a thought, trying to spread some possibility for people to consider different perspectives.
Call it whatever you want but I always knew something was “off” about the church since I was 10 years old. I’ve always believed in god. I think I’ve just always been an actual Christian my whole life. In any case, when I found out about the rituals when I was 18, I wasn’t shocked but more firm in my beliefs that the church is a contradiction to the Bible’s teachings. The Christ of the Bible is not the one of the Book of Mormon. Becoming a god from man is blasphemy. Mormon doctrine isn’t just false, but dangerous. I pray for all of my family members that are still practicing this lie.
YOu dont agree to end your life in the temple anymore if you reveal these things correct?
Music Is Life along with taking out “death penalty’s” in 1990. They also took out the part where they mocked a Christian priest/pastor by having him be employed by Satan! This was to imply that all other Christian church leaders were actually employed by Satan! The death penalty’s and the mocking of all other Christian leaders was in the Mormon temple ceremony for the first 150 years of Mormon history!!! Now they want to pretend it’s no big deal?? What the?? I personally acted like I was cutting my throat, chest and bowls while chanting “I will suffer my life to be taken”. The Mormon Church is a cult. It’s a massive Mormon manipulation machine!
They kept the hand motions, but took out the scary parts in 1990 because of a survey they sent out that revealed how scary it was for the members.
What's the name of that mason documentary??
for very in depth view of the first 3 degrees of masonry look at the john ankerberg show. the youtube channel is kennedy1 op
ankerberg has some very good programs about cults. he interview sandra tanner on at least one.
Netflix has several, but I think the one I watched was called "Inside the FreeMasons"
Its interesting to see that the similarities with masons are limited and I can see it as recreating from what they were familiar with just as I might try to recreate ceremonies or plays from what I am familiar with, but there is much more in common with ancient texts recently discovered dating from early Christianity that is not explained from masonry or religious texts known at the time
Yeah, I went through the temple in 1976 and was shocked by all of it. Guess I better get busy with my self mutilation. I felt lied to when I found out about where the ceremony truly came from and then I heard a defense of it that went somewhat like this: The ceremony is true and was used in Solomon's time and then lost and misinterpreted by the Masons. Thing is they have the history of when the Masons came up with it. I found this to only be one of dozens of lies.
Don't think, that if there is a God, He needs people lying for Him.