Something I'd really like to see more of is a comparison of mount accuracy especially at the lower end of price with longer focal length scopes. It's one thing to hold a weight, it's another to do so with finesse and precision. No one really goes into how well these mounts handle longer focal length scopes, like with SCTs and Maks that are often over 1000mm. You see a lot of people going back and forth on various forums, ZWO for example suggests a limit around 900mm for the AM5, leading some to totally discount it from handing something like an 8in SCT without a reducer or hyperstar, and then you see others saying it handles it just fine, and no one seems to agree or trust each other on this. No one has really sat down and documented a proper side-by-side between a bunch of different mounts... which admittedly would be both really hard and potentially very expensive.
In the $4000 range, the Losmandy G11 G at $3899 holds 60 pounds for astrophotography and 75 pounds visual. The Gm8-g, its little brother, holds 40 pounds and is around $2800. I’ve owned my G11 for 23 years. I bought it for $2800. Upgraded both worms and the computer over the years. Made in USA. All gears, no belts. And support is a phone call away. Sub arc second tracking, easy to maintain. And goto is dead on, especially if using Nina.
Some things to consider. If you have a lighter mount covered, and the wind picks up, you could be in trouble. I’ve been to countless star parties over 35 years. Scopes blow over. And that always is expensive! My setup consists of a Losmandy heavy duty tripod, which is 3 aluminum legs and the head. Say 10 pounds each. The mount head is 35 pounds. I have 33 pounds of counterweights, a c9.25, Optec rotator, focuser, and focal reducer. Camera is a QHY 268m with color filter wheel. It won’t blow over. It’s survived 60 mph winds at Cherry Springs in Pennsylvania. I don’t travel light.😊
Seems to me most of the main manufacturers produce reasonable mounts these days. At the end of the day the factors that govern most people's choice are going to be down to two things - how likely are they to use it and how much can they afford. I bought an EQ6-R and hardly used it for four years! simply because due to the limited time I had available it was just too much trouble to set up and take down. I have now set it up permanently. I also had one of the original Star Adventurers on a light Tripod. This was actually my main mount for all that time simply because of the convenience. I don't get a lot of clear skies where I live, sometimes you can go for three or more weeks and be lucky if you get the odd break in the clouds lasting more than an hour or so. Having a portable mount set up ready to go is the difference between imaging something or not. I've just replaced this set up to the GTi version, I did consider the AM3 but here in the UK that would have cost almost three times as much. I have thought about replacing my EQ6 with an AM5, but as it is working perfectly well I don't see the point, though if I was starting from scratch the 5 would probably get my vote. To be fair doing a comparison of such a wide range of mounts must be difficult as you are not really comparing like for like. At the end of the day the old cliche is right, the best mount is the one you use the most. I'm happy with my SW mounts but also know there probably are better out there. The only advice I give people starting out in this hobby is to be careful about spending a lot of money on a mount that you may not use.
Totally agree with your insights. My first 'serious' mount was the Meade LXD75, a real workhorse, but UNBELIEVABLY crude in its construction, doesn't matter how well I tuned/tightened up the worms, it would develop slack/backlash after 1 session !!! BUT, it did do the job well for my 4" Televue Genesis; it just showed its limitations with the much heavier 5" Televue NP127. Like you, I also got the AZ-EQ6: gorgeous mount and very very stable, but the head is so damned heavy which put me off setting it up. I decided to go down the AM5 route now, it's early days and a very different experience vs. the GEM paradigm. As I said in my post above, I think you really also need the ASI-Air and Finder/camera to get the best out of it, which adds cost and complexity. You can get away with the ASI "SkyAtlas" app and mount only, but I think a GEM with smart hand-controller is the more straightforward experience - although as I gain more AM5 experience, I may think differently later on. I'm waiting on delivery for final bits & pieces to mount the ASI-Air and Finder/camera to my main scope, plus the AM5 pier extension - so it adds up...
I would clarify the non-counterweight versions for the harmonic ZWO mounts: AM3 + tripod = 6.2 kg (13.7 lb), and (mark 2) AM5 + tripod =7.8 kg (17.2 lb). I agree with your conclusion, the ZWO's are expensive, but exceptionally lightweight for their capabilities. The ZWO mounts (I recently acquired the AM5) does take some getting use to vs. conventional GEM mounts; you can't move/slew them by hand since they have no conventional clutch, and they really need the ASI-Air system (and hardware to plate solve) to get the best out of them, otherwise they are rather dumb/blind out of the box.
Informative! I will note the chart is hard to read on a phone. I’d love to see stacked bar charts broken out by your low/mid/high range, so I can really focus in on what makes sense for me as a total noob. Would love another video talking about payload capacity and what that really means! What drives those numbers and what might be “good enough” for various experience levels? Thanks!
I honestly would not mind the weight. Doesn’t matter if I travel with it or using it stationary. I rather have a heavy duty mount that can resist some wind than a system that shakes with the slightest wind
Hi there, I was looking for a mount comparison and there you are. I was having to make a choice for what was best for me. I own a televue 85 and needed portability so I wasn’t sure which one to choose. Was it the heq5, am3 or am5. I know this isn’t a cheap investment but I didn’t want to goof. So with prices, payload and portability, you convinced me that my gut was right. When I have the money I will go with the AM5. Thanks
I miss the iOptron HEM, HEA, CEM and Losmandy mounts in the comperrison. I have a iOptron CEM 120 mount for a C14 scope and a heay iOptron tripod. I thnk that iOptron could be good alternative for the expensive ZWO mounts.
Point well received. I need to do more research into the iOptron lineup to see how they stack up. Based on the research I did before the video, though it seemed in an apples to apples comparison on performance to cost, the iOptron options didn't seem quite as compelling as the AM5, or the skywatcher or celestron mounts.
Lol the GEM45 mount head is only 17.5 pounds with a 45lb payload capacity. It has ipolar which is a camera in place of the polar scope. And it comes with the ipolar software to help you polar alignment quick and accurately. There's also a version that comes with a NUC PC and encoders. You did mention the GEM28 but not the bigger brothers .
@PopeAstro It looks like the GEM45 is 44.4 lbs for everything and has a 45 lbs capacity, which is good. AM5 is pretty tough competition in that space, though. I'll have to look deeper into future videos analyzing some of the criteria past some of the more obvious specs.
@spacetechtips The mount head of the GEM45 is 17.5lbs(without counter weight), the lightroc tripod is 15lbs for a total weight of 32lbs. There is also a 5lb carbon fiber tripod (110lb capacity) that the make for the GEM45 for a total weight of 22.5lbs without counter weights. @Abaunzamarco My buddy I image with has the HEA43 and he's had some issues with it. He been using it in the field with his Edge HD 11". He sent me this today " The way the altitude knob was attached, there was play in it. I tightened the play up but couldn’t get it all out.... The CEM70 had a much tighter build. Earlier adoption has its downsides." He wishes he kept his CEM70.
Is less weight always better? Maybe ... Maybe not. Does the extra weight *increase* tracking accuracy? If yes, then the extra weight is worth it! Your chart just shows weight vs cost = meaningless. Payload vs cost is good measurement. Tracking Accuracy is most important for astrophotography. Also, ease of polar alignment. How about 3 Star Plate Solve alignment. This could have neen 3 videos - beginner, semi-pro and observatory grade. Contrary to your description of the video ... At the end if this video, nobody has a clue which mount is right for them. You did not discuss any real features, just payload, weight & price.
A lot of this is my opinion at the making of the video. Unfortunately, which is the right mount, I'd say, all depends on the individual and their priorities. Tracking accuracy is the most important feature for the picture itself, but if you are constantly moving, your setup weight is no small considering and might dissuade someone from shooting at all. If I make it again I'll probably break it down further based on priorities like weight, cost, or payload. It is surprisingly complex.
Something I'd really like to see more of is a comparison of mount accuracy especially at the lower end of price with longer focal length scopes. It's one thing to hold a weight, it's another to do so with finesse and precision. No one really goes into how well these mounts handle longer focal length scopes, like with SCTs and Maks that are often over 1000mm. You see a lot of people going back and forth on various forums, ZWO for example suggests a limit around 900mm for the AM5, leading some to totally discount it from handing something like an 8in SCT without a reducer or hyperstar, and then you see others saying it handles it just fine, and no one seems to agree or trust each other on this. No one has really sat down and documented a proper side-by-side between a bunch of different mounts... which admittedly would be both really hard and potentially very expensive.
Thank-you so much for this chart! very useful!
Love the screen graphics listing the specs as you talked about them...
Thanks! That was and additional I wanted to focus on this video. Thanks for noticing!
In the $4000 range, the Losmandy G11 G at $3899 holds 60 pounds for astrophotography and 75 pounds visual. The Gm8-g, its little brother, holds 40 pounds and is around $2800. I’ve owned my G11 for 23 years. I bought it for $2800. Upgraded both worms and the computer over the years. Made in USA. All gears, no belts. And support is a phone call away. Sub arc second tracking, easy to maintain. And goto is dead on, especially if using Nina.
Thanks for your analysis and perspective on these mounts
Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it!
Some things to consider. If you have a lighter mount covered, and the wind picks up, you could be in trouble. I’ve been to countless star parties over 35 years. Scopes blow over. And that always is expensive! My setup consists of a Losmandy heavy duty tripod, which is 3 aluminum legs and the head. Say 10 pounds each. The mount head is 35 pounds. I have 33 pounds of counterweights, a c9.25, Optec rotator, focuser, and focal reducer. Camera is a QHY 268m with color filter wheel. It won’t blow over. It’s survived 60 mph winds at Cherry Springs in Pennsylvania. I don’t travel light.😊
F5 rated
Seems to me most of the main manufacturers produce reasonable mounts these days. At the end of the day the factors that govern most people's choice are going to be down to two things - how likely are they to use it and how much can they afford. I bought an EQ6-R and hardly used it for four years! simply because due to the limited time I had available it was just too much trouble to set up and take down. I have now set it up permanently. I also had one of the original Star Adventurers on a light Tripod. This was actually my main mount for all that time simply because of the convenience. I don't get a lot of clear skies where I live, sometimes you can go for three or more weeks and be lucky if you get the odd break in the clouds lasting more than an hour or so. Having a portable mount set up ready to go is the difference between imaging something or not. I've just replaced this set up to the GTi version, I did consider the AM3 but here in the UK that would have cost almost three times as much. I have thought about replacing my EQ6 with an AM5, but as it is working perfectly well I don't see the point, though if I was starting from scratch the 5 would probably get my vote.
To be fair doing a comparison of such a wide range of mounts must be difficult as you are not really comparing like for like. At the end of the day the old cliche is right, the best mount is the one you use the most. I'm happy with my SW mounts but also know there probably are better out there. The only advice I give people starting out in this hobby is to be careful about spending a lot of money on a mount that you may not use.
Wow, thanks for such a great comment! I loved hearing about your story! I absolutely couldn't agree more. The best mount is the one you will use.
Totally agree with your insights. My first 'serious' mount was the Meade LXD75, a real workhorse, but UNBELIEVABLY crude in its construction, doesn't matter how well I tuned/tightened up the worms, it would develop slack/backlash after 1 session !!! BUT, it did do the job well for my 4" Televue Genesis; it just showed its limitations with the much heavier 5" Televue NP127. Like you, I also got the AZ-EQ6: gorgeous mount and very very stable, but the head is so damned heavy which put me off setting it up. I decided to go down the AM5 route now, it's early days and a very different experience vs. the GEM paradigm. As I said in my post above, I think you really also need the ASI-Air and Finder/camera to get the best out of it, which adds cost and complexity. You can get away with the ASI "SkyAtlas" app and mount only, but I think a GEM with smart hand-controller is the more straightforward experience - although as I gain more AM5 experience, I may think differently later on. I'm waiting on delivery for final bits & pieces to mount the ASI-Air and Finder/camera to my main scope, plus the AM5 pier extension - so it adds up...
This was great! Super helpful!
Great to hear it! I'll make more!
I would clarify the non-counterweight versions for the harmonic ZWO mounts: AM3 + tripod = 6.2 kg (13.7 lb), and (mark 2) AM5 + tripod =7.8 kg (17.2 lb). I agree with your conclusion, the ZWO's are expensive, but exceptionally lightweight for their capabilities. The ZWO mounts (I recently acquired the AM5) does take some getting use to vs. conventional GEM mounts; you can't move/slew them by hand since they have no conventional clutch, and they really need the ASI-Air system (and hardware to plate solve) to get the best out of them, otherwise they are rather dumb/blind out of the box.
Informative!
I will note the chart is hard to read on a phone. I’d love to see stacked bar charts broken out by your low/mid/high range, so I can really focus in on what makes sense for me as a total noob.
Would love another video talking about payload capacity and what that really means! What drives those numbers and what might be “good enough” for various experience levels? Thanks!
Thank you, Taven nerd! I'm thinking about making a short version of this, and I'll make it easy to read it on a phone on that.
Great ideas in your second paragraph! I'll think about that topic.
I honestly would not mind the weight. Doesn’t matter if I travel with it or using it stationary. I rather have a heavy duty mount that can resist some wind than a system that shakes with the slightest wind
Hi there, I was looking for a mount comparison and there you are. I was having to make a choice for what was best for me. I own a televue 85 and needed portability so I wasn’t sure which one to choose. Was it the heq5, am3 or am5. I know this isn’t a cheap investment but I didn’t want to goof. So with prices, payload and portability, you convinced me that my gut was right. When I have the money I will go with the AM5. Thanks
Thank you so much for the great comment!
I miss the iOptron HEM, HEA, CEM and Losmandy mounts in the comperrison. I have a iOptron CEM 120 mount for a C14 scope and a heay iOptron tripod. I thnk that iOptron could be good alternative for the expensive ZWO mounts.
@@arthurwiegman5512 in hindsight, agree, I should think through those as well.
How could you leave out the CEM40, GEM45 or CEM70. Those are all very popular and very capable mounts
Point well received. I need to do more research into the iOptron lineup to see how they stack up. Based on the research I did before the video, though it seemed in an apples to apples comparison on performance to cost, the iOptron options didn't seem quite as compelling as the AM5, or the skywatcher or celestron mounts.
Lol the GEM45 mount head is only 17.5 pounds with a 45lb payload capacity. It has ipolar which is a camera in place of the polar scope. And it comes with the ipolar software to help you polar alignment quick and accurately. There's also a version that comes with a NUC PC and encoders. You did mention the GEM28 but not the bigger brothers .
@PopeAstro It looks like the GEM45 is 44.4 lbs for everything and has a 45 lbs capacity, which is good. AM5 is pretty tough competition in that space, though. I'll have to look deeper into future videos analyzing some of the criteria past some of the more obvious specs.
Don’t forget to look at the HAE line-up which is more comparable to the AM from ZWO. The mount weight to payload ratio is hard to beat.
@spacetechtips The mount head of the GEM45 is 17.5lbs(without counter weight), the lightroc tripod is 15lbs for a total weight of 32lbs. There is also a 5lb carbon fiber tripod (110lb capacity) that the make for the GEM45 for a total weight of 22.5lbs without counter weights.
@Abaunzamarco My buddy I image with has the HEA43 and he's had some issues with it. He been using it in the field with his Edge HD 11". He sent me this today " The way the altitude knob was attached, there was play in it. I tightened the play up but couldn’t get it all out.... The CEM70 had a much tighter build. Earlier adoption has its downsides." He wishes he kept his CEM70.
You put a Skywatcher as the "very top end" mount?
What about 10micron?
10micron is very good! I tried to scope it down to more proconsumer mounts. 10micron seemed like true pro-grade.
What does all this mean? It means that you have limited your analysis to a random selection of mounts, with a bias towards Skywatcher.
What other mounts do you have in mind?
@@spacetechtips well I was expecting analysis of the best mounts for astrophotography, from extensive research across all manufacturers, not just one.
@@soupdragon2397 understood, I'll make it again with more analysis from more brands.
10um, astro physics, Avalons? Wasup ?
Those are all “low end” good mounts you covered….
Those are really good. I'll make another video with more mounts and some higher end mounts like those.
There is just so much left out.
Is less weight always better? Maybe ... Maybe not. Does the extra weight *increase* tracking accuracy? If yes, then the extra weight is worth it! Your chart just shows weight vs cost = meaningless. Payload vs cost is good measurement. Tracking Accuracy is most important for astrophotography. Also, ease of polar alignment. How about 3 Star Plate Solve alignment. This could have neen 3 videos - beginner, semi-pro and observatory grade. Contrary to your description of the video ... At the end if this video, nobody has a clue which mount is right for them. You did not discuss any real features, just payload, weight & price.
A lot of this is my opinion at the making of the video. Unfortunately, which is the right mount, I'd say, all depends on the individual and their priorities. Tracking accuracy is the most important feature for the picture itself, but if you are constantly moving, your setup weight is no small considering and might dissuade someone from shooting at all. If I make it again I'll probably break it down further based on priorities like weight, cost, or payload. It is surprisingly complex.
This video is useless. I could just read all those specs.