Thanks. I watched this live last night and I knew two things watching this: 1) I did not know what the rule was. And 2) the Milwaukee broadcast crew definitely didn't know what the rule was.
Think this is my favourite rules explainer yet. Just cuts through the 'Yeah, but'-s, and reinforces why this was the right and only call. Doesn't matter if the ball wound up in the Bermuda Triangle, soon as the bat touched the catcher, ball's dead, it's a swinging strike three, and the runners have to stay put. None of the squishy obstruction/interference vibes stuff.
(Speaking of vibes, it feels like bat-to-catcher's-head type incidents are on the rise, anecdotally; maybe time to scoot 'em back, or rein in some of these big arcing swings somehow? Even with the mask, those blows can't be good.)
Ya William got hit like 3 different times with a bat yesterday on backswings but I guess cuz he didn’t drop the ball like a loser he doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt 😂
speaking literally here: if you're able to hit a ball into the bermuda triangle, but backswing makes contact with the catcher then the rule should not be applied here because that'd just be flat out impressive
Thank you for always doing such great breakdowns and really explaining the details of these calls. I wish more baseball fans, players, managers, and commentators understood the rules as well as you do.
I wish in times like this the broadcasters had to kick off the next game with a statement that they were wrong, didn't understand the rule, and that the call was correct and done exactly by the book.
Excellent video. After you explain it so thoroughly, it’s clear to see how the umpire actually reacted instantly and made the absolute correct call even though everyone else is confused 😂
So much fun learning how to officiate and apply the rules with this channel. Plus we get to hear the foolishness from the broadcasters too. Heaven for an umpire.👏👏
@@rayray4192 Agreed. But game announcers are not there to report the game fairly, they're either on one side or the other and they're in place to make the fans cheer for their team (or boo for the other team, apparently.)
@@mrthingy9072 What you write is true but announcers should not run their mouths if they don't know the rules, like the clown announcers do in this video.
@@mrthingy9072 To a certain extent, yes, that's true. However, if I were a Brewers fan, and if the announcers had explained the rule clearly, I would feel a lot better about the tough loss. As Lindsay said, the rule requires no judgement call from the umpires, only a simple determination of fact.
This is why broadcasters should have access to a rules expert (i.e. - a retired umpire). The broadcasters don't know the rules and this would be an opportunity for them and their listenership to learn something. The NFL and NHL do this - I don't understand why MLB doesn't.
The umpires missed the call on Judge. That's not debatable. The call here was correct, obviously, but it was an incredibly unlucky break for the Brewers. The contact had absolutely no impact on the play. Frelick would have scored without the contact. On fast-moving plays like this one, it's not realistic to be able to judge what would have happened in real-time, so the black and white rule makes sense. Given what happened yesterday, there's just no scenario where Brewers manager Murphy doesn't get ejected. It's just a really bad break.
The call was correct, but obviously there's some loophole in rules. If catcher can't stop the pass ball he could simply threw his mask in swing path and it would still be called backswing interference.
@@chenyoung3713 1. That happens way too quick for a catcher to say, "Oh, I didn't catch the ball, let me dive in front of the batter so he hits me." 2. What player would intentionally dive in front of a moving 3lb wooden bat to get a call even if he could? That's mental. 3. If, instead, you're suggesting he literally remove his mask and _throw_ it in front of the batter, well again, that would take even longer than diving in front with it still on, so there's no way that's happening, and it also wouldn't result in a backswing interference call, so you're absolutely wrong about there being a 'loophole' at all.
This is why broadcasters should have access to a rules expert (i.e. - a retired umpire). The broadcasters don't know the rules and this would be an opportunity for them and their listenership to learn something.
The rules are a poorly written mess, which the start of this video demonstrates. This is interference at the other levels the players have developed through, just not at the MLB level.
After watching this, it was amazing to see all the talking heads on ESPN last night talking about interference and how the Brewers got robbed. This morning ESPN had it scrolling across the bottom on how the Brewers lost a run due to "batters interference". You would figure someone would look up the rules.
For clarification… Is there any consideration for the catcher being out of the catcher’s box? If he slides over behind the batter, there should be no expectation that the catcher should/would be there. The batter needs to stay in his box, why doesn’t the catcher need to stay in his in order for this protection to apply?
announcer ignorance or misinformation hurts us umpires on field at all levels, as this foolishness leaks down to lower levels and gets repeated by players/coaches. Locally on MASN Sports Baltimore, Jim Palmer frequently says "we all know tie goes to the runner" and other such foolishness.
Even if it WASN'T a dead ball, their logic of "it was by the catcher before the contact" makes absolutely no sense. Gee...maybe getting hit on the head with a BASEBALL BAT would slow you down while you try to retrieve the ball and throw to first?
6.03(a)(3) Comment starts out with, "if a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard..." So it requires the batter miss in order for the call to be made. So if the batter hits the ball, and then hits the catcher on the backswing (pro/NCAA) or follow through (NFHS), it will be no-called. Hitting the catcher on the initial swing = catcher's interference. Hitting the catcher on the backswing IF it's a swing & a miss = dead ball strike. Hitting the catcher on the backswing IF it's a swing & batted ball = no-call.
It would be nice if the umpires or the league would explain these calls when they happen. Maybe you could contact them and help out because you do a fantastic job explaining why things are called, or should have been called, the way they were.
It's interesting because in this case, as well as the Baez swing, the catcher put themself in the situation to be struck. In both cases, the catchers move forward or to the side to block. If they were in their normal position, the contact would not have occurred.
About 10 years ago I noticed some batters are being taught to release the back had from the bat once the swing reaches extension towards the pitcher. The number of back swingings hitting the catcher has increased significantly. Notice the 1st batter of this video doesn’t release the back hand from the bat.
It also doesn't matter if it's "Awww, that's just his normal backswing" or not, despite what the game announcers think (most of them wouldn't recognize the rule book if someone threw it at them.) Contact is contact and it's incumbent upon the BATTER not to hit the catcher with the bat.
Excellent breakdown (and takedown). The only thing missing is an acknowledgment that Additon clearly says “backswing interference” at 2:12. If the announcers or coach saw that too, then I can understand their pleas for discretion based on the ball getting away, non-interference, etc.
Interesting. When the incident occurred, I thought the, “Nothing to interfere with” point applied since the ball got away from the catcher. I was looking forward to the CCS explanation. I’m a Brewers fan, but I admit that broadcasters (including ours) don’t know what they’re talking about sometimes. Also, it was too bad Guccione’s microphone didn’t work last night. He tried to explain it.
kinda infuriating how commentators know the rules worse than knowledgeable fans. these dudes have been around the game for a long time but nuance is as foreign to them as strike four.
I really think Pat was just pissed off about yesterday then this pops off. As a coach you might see one of these funky situations he’s faced in a year. Much less back to back days and both go against your team.
There’s a decent argument the catcher was too far forward His knees look fine but watch his head, it’s extended way out into the batters space, that’s why he’s hit with the back swing
Too many managers don’t know the rules and they make themselves look like idiots arguing. The ump was 100% correct here. People either need to learn the rules or get out of baseball.
It does say the batter must swing so hard they unintentionally make contact. In this instance, I don't think contact happened because the batter swung too hard. The catcher actually moved forward into the batter's back swing while trying to stop the ball. The way the rule is written, it may actually encourage catchers to try and take one on the noggin'.
Enough announcers give Jomboy a shout out for lip reads and catching things on tape during play. They ought to be subscribing to this channel and giving those same flowers to you.
You’d think the announcing crew would have someone thumbing through the rules trying to find the relevant one as fast as possible so that they don’t have to sound like this for such a long time.
I'm surprised broadcast crews don't have someone - an intern, anyone - assigned to look up a rule once an argument on the field breaks out. (No, I'm not really surprised. They'd have to pay someone. Still, the official scorer should have a deep knowledge of the rules, and they are doing nothing during the argument, so why can't they be tasked with at least texting the rule and clause to the broadcast teams?)
There was absolutely no communication or replay in the stadium, everyone thought they were arguing about a tipped foul ball, not the catcher getting domed.
I love the way you gasped "its not interence" and those announcers don't know it either. I'm not sure how many people (players, umps, fans...) would get this right every time. I love your videos.
Before everyone piles on the announcers here, this is not a common play, and when you add the context of what happened yesterday, announcers are going to do that. They get paid by the individual teams to call the games. There's so many quirky rules, that no announcer could possibly know all of them
The Brewers' color guy (who played in the big leagues as a catcher!) might be the biggest homer in the business and have the worst knowledge of the rules. He's been terrible for years.
Lindsey, supposedly there was similar contact earlier in the game that wasn't called. (brought up in fanboy fashion on my site). Did this happen and could you explain why it would have been called differently or maybe just missed?
I’m just curious if there is anything in the rules about catchers advancing into the swing path? Because what’s stopping a catcher from putting a glove into the backswing path of every swing. It wouldn’t matter if the catcher caught it or not because it would be a dead ball and a strike?
I will defend the announcers...to a point. This is not a frequent event and i certainly understand why they don't know. However...they really need to understand that they really dont understand and stop arguing their points from a perspective of ignorance. At some point, they need to admit that maybe theyre missing something, claim ignorance, and move on.
The manager is mad because in this situation the catcher PUT HIMSELF in that position to be hit . By it being a wild pitch, the catcher goes forward into a position he normally wouldn't be in. So the runners and batters are being screwed because the catchers puts his head all tge way done and forward.
Good explanation, and I agree it was called according to the rule. But it still doesn't feel right. Seems like a catcher could dive in front of the swing path and draw contact. Although idk if a catcher could think that fast, or be expected to dive in front of a 120 mph bat swing... Who knows, maybe we need Common Law rulings in baseball.
When you think about how many people are employed in order to broadcast a baseball game, you'd think they'd want to also have an ex-umpire on staff in order to keep the announcers from always sounding like complete imbeciles.
This is a sketchy rule. The catcher created the contact by moving forward. I think the rule needs to be looked at. There should be a clause that prevents the catcher from creating the contact, just the same as the offense cannot "induce" a balk. Just my 2 cents worth.....
Exactly, if he didn’t move then fine but he gets a freebie by moving his head forward into the path of the backswing. While I’m sure not “intentional” it still gets him out of not catching the ball.
Respectfully, I don’t think there is a catcher in their right mind at any level who would intentionally try to get hit by the swing to create this situation. Not only is it completely counterintuitive, it’s also incredibly dangerous. To suppose professional athletes will risk a concussion or worse to “steal” an out this way is, frankly, ludicrous.
@@alanhess9306 PLEASE.LEARN. THE.RULES before speaking! The offense is not allowed to make any action with the intention to induce a balk, for instance, the Base Coach yelling "He's going", or the batter while in the box, dropping his bat, and bending down as if tying his shoe without being granted time, while the pitcher in looking at the runner(s). A Steal, or a Fake Steal are legitimate plays. We are talking about 2 different things here.
Lindsay a 2 part question here. One thing I noticed about this situation is that the catcher is fully in the left handed batters box when contact is made. Never seen that before. First thought was that is there no limit to where a catcher is protected? So theoretically a catcher could take a beating and every swing would be a dead ball strike? Second, I was confused why this is an immediate dead ball. Say R3 falls down/misses home and is put out you’d be punishing the defense for an offensive violation. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Hope you don’t mind clearing it up!
Rule 5.02(a) states, "the catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher’s box until the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand. PENALTY: BALK" So the catcher is legal, and the way the rule is written the catcher is fine there. Now there's a difference between a catcher legitimately trying to play the position vs a catcher who is trying to draw this kind of a call. But I don't think it would be all that good for the catcher's physical wellbeing to try and draw this specific type of call. As for the dead ball timing, the ball rolled behind the plate pretty quickly here, so I have no issue with the immediate determination that the catcher was unable to field the position and retire the runner. Sort of that "initial action" of the play.
@@rayray4192 I think the point is that there is a loophole. If the catcher is willing to tank back swings then they get free strikes. They just have to move into the bat path.
@@twinlamp Yeah, this was called according to the rules as they are and I usually hate judgement calls but it almost feels like the rule needs to have stipulations for the catcher moving up into the batters normal backswing area even if they are attempting to play the ball. Hitters cannot be expected to just not have a backswing because they missed the ball.
Point not covered. At present, the catcher must be in the catcher's box only until ball leaves the pitcher's hand (Rule 5.02(a)). I don't think anyone was counting on the idea of a catcher sneaking up to try and draw this call by putting themself in harm's way.
Thank you for explaining the ruling. I am just a casual fan and didn't know that specific rule at all. As far as your brick wall comment at 5:41: of course it's a brick wall. You're talking over a video. The people you're talking to can't hear you. I know that was a silly throw away comment but seemed gratuitous.
Great video Lin! There is a slight error in your script right at the start though, it was the tying run that got to third base, not the winning run. Unless the game is already tied you can't exactly have the winning run at third base.
New rule on the links. If you strike at the ball and it ends up hitting you, it is no longer a 2 stroke penalty. You are probably in a bad enough way already
Tough break for the Brewers. Feel like the Rays are always on the other side of this kind of thing so i guess this is just the universe evening things out lol
Yup... HS, out for INT.. I didn't realize that OBR is only a dead ball strike.. either way, Batter out on this one.. still, can you imagine the announcers if there were less than 2 strikes.
I have no expectation of announcers knowing every rule (baseball rulebook is one of the more complicated ones out there). However - I do expect them to not speak with the certainty of knowing the rules when they obviously do not. It's inflammatory and detrimental to the game overall IMO. Almost all of them have a third sideline reporter - have them (or a producer or intern or retired umpire on staff, someone) look it up during the replay/argument so they can speak intelligently on it
Too many backswings have become too exaggerated. Catchers seem to be getting hit a lot more often than they used to. I think it’s dangerous, risks injury and I wish MLB would change the rules to make contacting the catcher on the backswing an automatic out.
If the pitcher throws a fastball pitch and if the batter were to backswing away from the ball, that should be a dead bat on the catchers helmet. Was it intentional contact? It might have been intentional contact if he didn’t know. If the batter didn’t know that if he was going to backswing and then did it, that must be coaches decision to the umpire of what happened. If both umpires required to eject the coach and batter, the coach will have a right to eject the umpires upon the open play. The umpires should be ejected for this call. If the umpires wanted to call a play with a timeout call for any other reason that should have not called for a timeout call and lacking to do so, they should be suspended immediately. If the umpires ejected the coach for no reason after that play happened, they should not eject the coach. The umpires should give him a second chance for that play. If the fastball dies down and continues to roll on the ground, that should be a dead ball before the catchers glove. 0:17
Thanks. I watched this live last night and I knew two things watching this: 1) I did not know what the rule was. And 2) the Milwaukee broadcast crew definitely didn't know what the rule was.
Bill "Rock" Schroeder, the Milwaukee color announcer, is one of the most clueless in baseball. Guess his nickname comes from "As dumb as a..."
@@osumariokartmanI don't honestly know that there's a worse color guy in major-league ball than Bill Schroeder. Rules awareness: absolutely none.
@@osumariokartmanclueless? That was a shit call. The catcher went into the batter. If that’s interference but judge wasn’t even fire the umps
@@sawyerhiston4637 Did.... did you watch the video?
@@sawyerhiston4637 Get a grip, learn the rules.
Pretty sure it's a balk. Left fielder advances to the bullpen.
Only if the field goal is good. C'mon. Read the rulebook.
Only if the catcher was in the crease
Did the pitcher even call for a fair catch?
Hardy har har
only when the goalie is offside, if he isn't it's just a 3 minute penalty
I greatly appreciate you mentioning the difference between Pro/OBR and NCAA and NFHS. The codes are so different for so many things.
Think this is my favourite rules explainer yet. Just cuts through the 'Yeah, but'-s, and reinforces why this was the right and only call. Doesn't matter if the ball wound up in the Bermuda Triangle, soon as the bat touched the catcher, ball's dead, it's a swinging strike three, and the runners have to stay put. None of the squishy obstruction/interference vibes stuff.
(Speaking of vibes, it feels like bat-to-catcher's-head type incidents are on the rise, anecdotally; maybe time to scoot 'em back, or rein in some of these big arcing swings somehow? Even with the mask, those blows can't be good.)
Ya William got hit like 3 different times with a bat yesterday on backswings but I guess cuz he didn’t drop the ball like a loser he doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt 😂
speaking literally here: if you're able to hit a ball into the bermuda triangle, but backswing makes contact with the catcher then the rule should not be applied here because that'd just be flat out impressive
@@mrbow50001 depends on where you are. LA, definitely get it, Florida, maybe not
Thank you for always doing such great breakdowns and really explaining the details of these calls. I wish more baseball fans, players, managers, and commentators understood the rules as well as you do.
I wish in times like this the broadcasters had to kick off the next game with a statement that they were wrong, didn't understand the rule, and that the call was correct and done exactly by the book.
Excellent video. After you explain it so thoroughly, it’s clear to see how the umpire actually reacted instantly and made the absolute correct call even though everyone else is confused 😂
So much fun learning how to officiate and apply the rules with this channel. Plus we get to hear the foolishness from the broadcasters too. Heaven for an umpire.👏👏
MLB's fault for not making the umpires get on the mic and explain themselves.
Good assessment Linds, and good call Ryan. When are these commentators going to be required to read a rulebook...
My guess is never
@@rayray4192 Agreed. But game announcers are not there to report the game fairly, they're either on one side or the other and they're in place to make the fans cheer for their team (or boo for the other team, apparently.)
@@mrthingy9072 What you write is true but announcers should not run their mouths if they don't know the rules, like the clown announcers do in this video.
@@mrthingy9072 To a certain extent, yes, that's true. However, if I were a Brewers fan, and if the announcers had explained the rule clearly, I would feel a lot better about the tough loss. As Lindsay said, the rule requires no judgement call from the umpires, only a simple determination of fact.
This is why broadcasters should have access to a rules expert (i.e. - a retired umpire). The broadcasters don't know the rules and this would be an opportunity for them and their listenership to learn something. The NFL and NHL do this - I don't understand why MLB doesn't.
This was a very straightforward call. Murphy may have had a case with the Aaron Judge call, but he's grasping at straws here.
The umpires missed the call on Judge. That's not debatable.
The call here was correct, obviously, but it was an incredibly unlucky break for the Brewers. The contact had absolutely no impact on the play. Frelick would have scored without the contact. On fast-moving plays like this one, it's not realistic to be able to judge what would have happened in real-time, so the black and white rule makes sense.
Given what happened yesterday, there's just no scenario where Brewers manager Murphy doesn't get ejected. It's just a really bad break.
The call was correct, but obviously there's some loophole in rules. If catcher can't stop the pass ball he could simply threw his mask in swing path and it would still be called backswing interference.
@@chenyoung3713LMFAO that's ridiculous
@@chenyoung3713 1. That happens way too quick for a catcher to say, "Oh, I didn't catch the ball, let me dive in front of the batter so he hits me."
2. What player would intentionally dive in front of a moving 3lb wooden bat to get a call even if he could? That's mental.
3. If, instead, you're suggesting he literally remove his mask and _throw_ it in front of the batter, well again, that would take even longer than diving in front with it still on, so there's no way that's happening, and it also wouldn't result in a backswing interference call, so you're absolutely wrong about there being a 'loophole' at all.
As usual the umps blew it. But they have the final word and the rules aren’t calling the game.
Love the nod to the late Vin Scully at the end with the “that’s fertilizer” interpretation.
This is why broadcasters should have access to a rules expert (i.e. - a retired umpire). The broadcasters don't know the rules and this would be an opportunity for them and their listenership to learn something.
Why do so many homer announcers try to justify an illegal action with "He ALWAYS does that!"
It's always amazing how the commentators, players and managers really know very little about the rules.
The rules are a poorly written mess, which the start of this video demonstrates. This is interference at the other levels the players have developed through, just not at the MLB level.
@@ericblair5731the other levels are irrelevant, they're not playing on the other levels.
@@FoxtasticGaming LMFAO y'all say the dumbest things
After watching this, it was amazing to see all the talking heads on ESPN last night talking about interference and how the Brewers got robbed. This morning ESPN had it scrolling across the bottom on how the Brewers lost a run due to "batters interference". You would figure someone would look up the rules.
Good Grief. Every announcer in the league should have to come to this channel and sit and watch videos.
Mets/Yankees TV broadcasts are rarely on here I noticed.
The split screen of Lin using correct terminology correctly with the broadcasters using incorrect terminology incorrectly...is quite amusing.
Managers are notoriously bad at knowing the rules.
_Buck Showalter enters the chat_
Showalter is not very good at rules either. There is a video entitled "lesser known rules" where Showalter was wrong on three of them.
For clarification… Is there any consideration for the catcher being out of the catcher’s box? If he slides over behind the batter, there should be no expectation that the catcher should/would be there. The batter needs to stay in his box, why doesn’t the catcher need to stay in his in order for this protection to apply?
Moral of the story: Do not hit the catcher with the backswing. The catcher won’t enjoy the contact, and the batter won’t enjoy the call.
This is such great content. Great explanation.
Thanks for the extensive coverage of the commentators. It was relentless! Commentators who don’t know the rules are why people hate umps.
announcer ignorance or misinformation hurts us umpires on field at all levels, as this foolishness leaks down to lower levels and gets repeated by players/coaches. Locally on MASN Sports Baltimore, Jim Palmer frequently says "we all know tie goes to the runner" and other such foolishness.
Even if it WASN'T a dead ball, their logic of "it was by the catcher before the contact" makes absolutely no sense. Gee...maybe getting hit on the head with a BASEBALL BAT would slow you down while you try to retrieve the ball and throw to first?
Hi Lindsay, what is the rule when the catcher is hit in the follow thru when the ball is hit?
6.03(a)(3) Comment starts out with, "if a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard..."
So it requires the batter miss in order for the call to be made. So if the batter hits the ball, and then hits the catcher on the backswing (pro/NCAA) or follow through (NFHS), it will be no-called.
Hitting the catcher on the initial swing = catcher's interference.
Hitting the catcher on the backswing IF it's a swing & a miss = dead ball strike.
Hitting the catcher on the backswing IF it's a swing & batted ball = no-call.
Love the ending of that video 😂
It would be nice if the umpires or the league would explain these calls when they happen. Maybe you could contact them and help out because you do a fantastic job explaining why things are called, or should have been called, the way they were.
It's interesting because in this case, as well as the Baez swing, the catcher put themself in the situation to be struck. In both cases, the catchers move forward or to the side to block. If they were in their normal position, the contact would not have occurred.
they've got to start putting some regulations on catcher's movements.
I hope this is a joke. That is a ridiculous position for a bat to end up in - control your follow through.
About 10 years ago I noticed some batters are being taught to release the back had from the bat once the swing reaches extension towards the pitcher. The number of back swingings hitting the catcher has increased significantly. Notice the 1st batter of this video doesn’t release the back hand from the bat.
Learning new things every time I click on a CCS video.
Also, I have zero expectations that an announcer will get this right in the moment.
HAHAHA! I wasn't expecting the ATHF reference. CCS is the BEST!
To many of MLB-Broadcasters have no idea of the rules. Its a shame.
It also doesn't matter if it's "Awww, that's just his normal backswing" or not, despite what the game announcers think (most of them wouldn't recognize the rule book if someone threw it at them.) Contact is contact and it's incumbent upon the BATTER not to hit the catcher with the bat.
0:10 - "winning run to third base"
Down 1-0? Well that's interesting.
great analysis, thanks for breaking that down--keep including NFHS interpretations in these videos because that is where most of your customers are at
Excellent breakdown (and takedown). The only thing missing is an acknowledgment that Additon clearly says “backswing interference” at 2:12. If the announcers or coach saw that too, then I can understand their pleas for discretion based on the ball getting away, non-interference, etc.
Interesting. When the incident occurred, I thought the, “Nothing to interfere with” point applied since the ball got away from the catcher. I was looking forward to the CCS explanation. I’m a Brewers fan, but I admit that broadcasters (including ours) don’t know what they’re talking about sometimes. Also, it was too bad Guccione’s microphone didn’t work last night. He tried to explain it.
Pretty sure that Milwaukee should’ve challenged for catcher’s interference because the catcher didn’t try to get out of the way from the backswing
Nonsense, there was no catcher's interference. Most ridiculous comment I've seen in a while.
Thanks
Great explanation
kinda infuriating how commentators know the rules worse than knowledgeable fans. these dudes have been around the game for a long time but nuance is as foreign to them as strike four.
Announcers need to be cc'ed on these breakdowns. Maybe they'll stop talking out of their asses
the ATHF ending..... chef's kiss
Just goes to show how many people don't know the rules, yet still argue anyway.
Pat Murphy gonna Pat Murphy
I really think Pat was just pissed off about yesterday then this pops off. As a coach you might see one of these funky situations he’s faced in a year. Much less back to back days and both go against your team.
There’s a decent argument the catcher was too far forward
His knees look fine but watch his head, it’s extended way out into the batters space, that’s why he’s hit with the back swing
@shoeless1137 No there isn't.
You would hope that managers, players, umpires, and commentators know the rules though. I mean, since it's a fairly significant part of their job.
Too many managers don’t know the rules and they make themselves look like idiots arguing. The ump was 100% correct here. People either need to learn the rules or get out of baseball.
Those bat swings should be illegal and get the batter fined and suspended
It does say the batter must swing so hard they unintentionally make contact. In this instance, I don't think contact happened because the batter swung too hard. The catcher actually moved forward into the batter's back swing while trying to stop the ball. The way the rule is written, it may actually encourage catchers to try and take one on the noggin'.
So, another case of the broadcasters and the manager not knowing the rule.
Wrong place, wrong time. Also the wrong time to say a team can't catch a break.
Enough announcers give Jomboy a shout out for lip reads and catching things on tape during play. They ought to be subscribing to this channel and giving those same flowers to you.
I honestly like both channels. I enjoy Jomboy for what he does, but I also appreciate this channel for providing stuff like this
@@markmelchior726same
@@markmelchior726 Jomboy does a great job showing the human element of sports. Here it is about what the rules actually say.
@@TintagelEmrys Couldn't have said it better myself
Lots of crazy rules.
You’d think the announcing crew would have someone thumbing through the rules trying to find the relevant one as fast as possible so that they don’t have to sound like this for such a long time.
I'm surprised broadcast crews don't have someone - an intern, anyone - assigned to look up a rule once an argument on the field breaks out. (No, I'm not really surprised. They'd have to pay someone. Still, the official scorer should have a deep knowledge of the rules, and they are doing nothing during the argument, so why can't they be tasked with at least texting the rule and clause to the broadcast teams?)
They really need to have someone in the truck to relay the rules to the commentators so they don’t sound so dumb when plays like this happen.
There was absolutely no communication or replay in the stadium, everyone thought they were arguing about a tipped foul ball, not the catcher getting domed.
I love how these videos expose the pxp guys, most of whom were ex-players.
“Why this” “why that” Why don’t the announcers learn the rules of the game they announce every day as their job? 😱
There should be someone in the trailer digging up the rules so the announcers don’t make a fool of themselves, or at minimum correct themselves.
Game announcers proving, yet again, that they don't know the rules of the game.
I love the way you gasped "its not interence" and those announcers don't know it either. I'm not sure how many people (players, umps, fans...) would get this right every time. I love your videos.
I learn so much here !! Thank you.
Before everyone piles on the announcers here, this is not a common play, and when you add the context of what happened yesterday, announcers are going to do that. They get paid by the individual teams to call the games. There's so many quirky rules, that no announcer could possibly know all of them
Nobody ever said broadcasters were smart enough to know the rules.
The Brewers' color guy (who played in the big leagues as a catcher!) might be the biggest homer in the business and have the worst knowledge of the rules. He's been terrible for years.
"Bat clubbed him in the head." WHAT!!!
Lindsey, supposedly there was similar contact earlier in the game that wasn't called. (brought up in fanboy fashion on my site). Did this happen and could you explain why it would have been called differently or maybe just missed?
I’m just curious if there is anything in the rules about catchers advancing into the swing path? Because what’s stopping a catcher from putting a glove into the backswing path of every swing. It wouldn’t matter if the catcher caught it or not because it would be a dead ball and a strike?
I will defend the announcers...to a point. This is not a frequent event and i certainly understand why they don't know. However...they really need to understand that they really dont understand and stop arguing their points from a perspective of ignorance. At some point, they need to admit that maybe theyre missing something, claim ignorance, and move on.
The manager is mad because in this situation the catcher PUT HIMSELF in that position to be hit . By it being a wild pitch, the catcher goes forward into a position he normally wouldn't be in. So the runners and batters are being screwed because the catchers puts his head all tge way done and forward.
Look forward to your explanations on plays. Downside, I laugh at commentators more now....but wait, that's an upside. So your videos are a win win😅
Good explanation, and I agree it was called according to the rule. But it still doesn't feel right. Seems like a catcher could dive in front of the swing path and draw contact. Although idk if a catcher could think that fast, or be expected to dive in front of a 120 mph bat swing... Who knows, maybe we need Common Law rulings in baseball.
The ATHF clip at the end is just 👩🍳 💋
When you think about how many people are employed in order to broadcast a baseball game, you'd think they'd want to also have an ex-umpire on staff in order to keep the announcers from always sounding like complete imbeciles.
its amazing these coaches and players get paid MILLIONS and dot know the rules of the game. and all the commentators are just idiots
So any contact, deadball and a strike still?
This is a sketchy rule. The catcher created the contact by moving forward. I think the rule needs to be looked at. There should be a clause that prevents the catcher from creating the contact, just the same as the offense cannot "induce" a balk. Just my 2 cents worth.....
Exactly, if he didn’t move then fine but he gets a freebie by moving his head forward into the path of the backswing. While I’m sure not “intentional” it still gets him out of not catching the ball.
Yeah most of those that were shown were all caused by the catcher moving to spot closer and behind the batter.
Respectfully, I don’t think there is a catcher in their right mind at any level who would intentionally try to get hit by the swing to create this situation. Not only is it completely counterintuitive, it’s also incredibly dangerous. To suppose professional athletes will risk a concussion or worse to “steal” an out this way is, frankly, ludicrous.
The offense can induce a balk. We often see runners leading off third faking a steal which causes the pitcher to hesitate. That is a balk.
@@alanhess9306 PLEASE.LEARN. THE.RULES before speaking! The offense is not allowed to make any action with the intention to induce a balk, for instance, the Base Coach yelling "He's going", or the batter while in the box, dropping his bat, and bending down as if tying his shoe without being granted time, while the pitcher in looking at the runner(s). A Steal, or a Fake Steal are legitimate plays. We are talking about 2 different things here.
Home plate ref: I sentence you...a game misconduct!
You have call this... What if the backswing hits the catcher and knocked him out can the base runners. just keep running. No
Lindsay a 2 part question here. One thing I noticed about this situation is that the catcher is fully in the left handed batters box when contact is made. Never seen that before. First thought was that is there no limit to where a catcher is protected? So theoretically a catcher could take a beating and every swing would be a dead ball strike? Second, I was confused why this is an immediate dead ball. Say R3 falls down/misses home and is put out you’d be punishing the defense for an offensive violation. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Hope you don’t mind clearing it up!
Rule 5.02(a) states, "the catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher’s box until the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand. PENALTY: BALK"
So the catcher is legal, and the way the rule is written the catcher is fine there. Now there's a difference between a catcher legitimately trying to play the position vs a catcher who is trying to draw this kind of a call. But I don't think it would be all that good for the catcher's physical wellbeing to try and draw this specific type of call.
As for the dead ball timing, the ball rolled behind the plate pretty quickly here, so I have no issue with the immediate determination that the catcher was unable to field the position and retire the runner. Sort of that "initial action" of the play.
I get that you are confused. Watch the video again and understand that the batter is responsible for his swing.
@@rayray4192 Regardless, this implies a catcher can just take a backswing on purpose to get free strikes.
@@rayray4192
I think the point is that there is a loophole. If the catcher is willing to tank back swings then they get free strikes. They just have to move into the bat path.
@@twinlamp Yeah, this was called according to the rules as they are and I usually hate judgement calls but it almost feels like the rule needs to have stipulations for the catcher moving up into the batters normal backswing area even if they are attempting to play the ball. Hitters cannot be expected to just not have a backswing because they missed the ball.
I say the catcher moved up to get hit with by the bat. Whats the rule if the catcher moves up and is then hit by the backswing?
Point not covered. At present, the catcher must be in the catcher's box only until ball leaves the pitcher's hand (Rule 5.02(a)). I don't think anyone was counting on the idea of a catcher sneaking up to try and draw this call by putting themself in harm's way.
@@CloseCallSports That part of 5.02(a) only applies on an intentional base on balls. It is a moot point now that no pitches need to be thrown.
Great video
Thank you for explaining the ruling. I am just a casual fan and didn't know that specific rule at all.
As far as your brick wall comment at 5:41: of course it's a brick wall. You're talking over a video. The people you're talking to can't hear you.
I know that was a silly throw away comment but seemed gratuitous.
Great video Lin! There is a slight error in your script right at the start though, it was the tying run that got to third base, not the winning run. Unless the game is already tied you can't exactly have the winning run at third base.
“Clubbed him in the head” is a crazy description of what happened
This could all be avoided if there were a rule that states the batter shall keep both hands on the bat.
New rule on the links.
If you strike at the ball and it ends up hitting you, it is no longer a 2 stroke penalty. You are probably in a bad enough way already
If the pitcher was in the middle during the play, that should be a retired runner interference. 0:42 0:42
It's really sad how many of these broadcasters don't know the rules. Then they go on to miss inform the public.
Tough break for the Brewers. Feel like the Rays are always on the other side of this kind of thing so i guess this is just the universe evening things out lol
The Announcers.....=((((
In add vert... izement? Can you say that word one more time? I missed it. 😆
Great video as usual!
By the way, manager made contact with the Plate Umpire as soon as was ejected
Yup... HS, out for INT.. I didn't realize that OBR is only a dead ball strike.. either way, Batter out on this one.. still, can you imagine the announcers if there were less than 2 strikes.
ATHF clip popped me. WHY IS ANYTHING ANYTHING??
How about showing full scene without interrupting?
Blows my mind how even the ex ball player commentators don’t know the rules smh
I have no expectation of announcers knowing every rule (baseball rulebook is one of the more complicated ones out there). However - I do expect them to not speak with the certainty of knowing the rules when they obviously do not. It's inflammatory and detrimental to the game overall IMO. Almost all of them have a third sideline reporter - have them (or a producer or intern or retired umpire on staff, someone) look it up during the replay/argument so they can speak intelligently on it
“I Get why runner returns to base, but why is the batter out?”
Because he swung & missed the ball with 2 strikes….
Yeah and that no call on Judge slide was right too. Yeah ok🙄 Umps even admitted they were wrong
Milwaukee number 9, two minutes for high sticking
Too many backswings have become too exaggerated. Catchers seem to be getting hit a lot more often than they used to. I think it’s dangerous, risks injury and I wish MLB would change the rules to make contacting the catcher on the backswing an automatic out.
If the pitcher throws a fastball pitch and if the batter were to backswing away from the ball, that should be a dead bat on the catchers helmet. Was it intentional contact? It might have been intentional contact if he didn’t know. If the batter didn’t know that if he was going to backswing and then did it, that must be coaches decision to the umpire of what happened. If both umpires required to eject the coach and batter, the coach will have a right to eject the umpires upon the open play. The umpires should be ejected for this call. If the umpires wanted to call a play with a timeout call for any other reason that should have not called for a timeout call and lacking to do so, they should be suspended immediately. If the umpires ejected the coach for no reason after that play happened, they should not eject the coach. The umpires should give him a second chance for that play. If the fastball dies down and continues to roll on the ground, that should be a dead ball before the catchers glove. 0:17
WTH are you talking about? You wrote quite a bit of nonsense to let everyone know you know nothing about baseball.
ATHF... I miss that show...