This is indeed a disturbing universe (James Earl Jones voice coming out of Maggie Simpson after she killed Groundskeeper Willie in the one treehouse of horror with the time traveling toaster)
I always chuckle at these apologists glazing a bad sounding headphone with the nonsense excuse, "well have you listened" They're terrible headphones@Happydale-f9r
It was on my consideration list in 2023 when I was looking out for a decent HP. I saw that the price for the Closed was lower than the open-back version, read the reviews and... bought the Sundara.
This is such cool video, I'm glad people are still talkign about the lower end Hifimans. I was TORN between The Sundara-C, and the R9, I got the R9, and it would be GREAT if you would do an earcup removal of the R9! That would be sick to see.
@@kamikamieu Oh man I was sorta self conscious that I have....15 or so cuts and boosts applied to my Edition XS and 60% of those Q values around 5.8-7 with 2-3 going to 9. All of the granular adjustments sitting between 500hz and 5khz. The Edition XS has taught me a few things about myself and EQing in general: that I am insufferably neurotic when it comes to my upper midrange and lower treble tuning. My ears are sensitive specifically to the narrow 3-4khz band and needs to be dropped below Harman. Some genres, spicy metal genres with a lot of reverb and poorly tamed vocals/guitars in particular, just cant be EQed into salvation if you prefer a presentation style that deviates too far away from a particular headphones stock sound profile, even planar over-ear that can handle illegal amounts of EQ like the XS.
Thank You. This video is gold for me! I own sundara closed-back 1 year. I copy and paste this EQ profile. I am a quiet impressed. Sound is now better.I never did EQs. I am just own ifi zen dac 2 and with truebass-on the sundara closed-back sounds me good, I liked it. I know it is total entry-level headphones from hifiman, I thought this sound is ok. Your video makes me looking to sundara closed back in different look. Thank you for learning me, how to EQ propertly. (I own Audeze Mobius, Sony MDR-1RBT) I am planing to buy Hifiman Edition XS or save more money for Hifiman Arya Organic. And will buy Ifi Zen Can 3, because these Hifiman planars need more power. What do you think? Any idea?
I actually really like my Sundara Closed. That being said I like it given its price at like $130 not nearly close to its original MSRP. Now that being said it still has a very weird sound signature, the frequency response is actually a bit closer to the Caldera Closed minus that weird resonance around 600hz. However the treble do be peaky as hell so depending on your head it might be nasty, on my head it works well.
I owned these for a couple of days. ... The combination of bad sound quality and terrible comfort easily made it one of the worst headphones I ever encountered. Typical Hifiman...
@fishbarbeque8540 Well, i think, that's not how it works. If you flip the driver you will hear the backwaves of the driver. So it will be almost the same, just with a tiny time offset. And maybe also with different tuning, because the drivers aren't made to be heard from the backside. To turn the (planer magnetic) driver vertically can change the tuning of the headphone, in a good or bad way. And in the video it looked like it is possible to rotate the driver plate.
I have always asked the question to other headphone reviewers over the years , why don't they ever mention how a headphone responds to EQ adjustments? We all have our preferences in how we like our music to sound so what's wrong with doing a bit of EQ tweaking ? It's like it's a sin for other reviewers to even mention those dreaded letters EQ. It's refreshing to see you cover that subject and even show a graph of how these headphones respond to your adjustments. Thanks !
Dunno why the hate, I bought them for 150 USD and cannot complain seriously... People expected Sundara, but closed, I expected a catastrophe. After I got them and used them, they are solid, not a disaster
as usual, an enlightening video. i no longer have the Eris (I'm the one that Zeos paid back cash at CanJam SoCal) but I wonder if you ever EQed them satisfactorily. they were wonderfully comfortable and the cable was excellent but that midbass... I have since snagged FT-1s and love them but I could stand just a smidge of mid bass reduction. i am a long listener of speakers that accurately plumbed to 16Hz (IMF/Fried RSPMs) so I need the low bass. the FT-1s do go down to 30 so I am fine with them. i also have Hifiman 4XXsl that I eq with my Monlith THX dac/amp to near that. As you can tell, I am a cheap bastard but you certainly ranked the FT-1s the way I would. they do not have the airy fine extension that I would prefer but I'm happy.
I like the SC. It was only intended to be like Sundara by headband and price point. It has the driver based on research done on the R10P driver (I was told this by HFM at CanJam NYC). Do you hate them too? Have you tried pad rolling?? The pad ring is different. You need to email HFM, and they arrange to send you the rings for the same price as the other round rings at $10. The stock pads do not do this headphone justice, and I dislike the feel of their pads too. Love it with ZMF perforated sheepskin that came with my Atrium. It makes them richer and more fun sounding, move v shaped. Also great with Brainwavz hybrid angled pads which give it more soundstage and fullness. I do NOT try to EQ my headphones to sound like any predetermined curve. I like how they sound different, or even very different. Why would I want to try to make them all sound the same?? Then just buy one headphone and be done with it. When I post in my headphone groups about the SC lots of folks love them, but half seem to be parroting bad reviews saying you and other don't like them so why even try. I hear good, controlled bass, detailed mids and open treble that is far from being sharp (when compared with other closed HP in my collection under $500). And, I have my ears checked annually for health and to make sure no wax buildup. When is the last time you had your ears checked?? Love your reviews, except on SC. Thanks!
100%!. The custom cans mod needs more exposure. I really like my Sundara closed after adding the foam. I have the earpad mod too but not needed that yet.
HI, I have a stupid question... I come from the car-audio world, in sound quality installations we almost always use the LP Linkwitz filter (for bass). Recently I download and use EQ profile for Sennheiser HD 6xx, area below 100hz is boosted by almost 7db - you can hear this transducer is barely alive(becomes slow and "clumsy").Wouldn't it be a good idea us lp linkwitz for headphones? This should improve speed (ofc subjective ) and reduce distortion. Edit: just add in APO 30hz lp 24db/oct filter(LRHP), now this hadphone(6xx) are difrent beast:)
I have the Sundara closed and for the price I like how they sound, the comfort and build quality. So for listening to RUclips videos like this they sound fine.
@ na, to my ears they sound better than any of my Bluetooth Bose headphones, not as good as any of my open backs but for listening to RUclips videos at night in bed these closed backs for $129 are a steal.
@1TechCritic420no they don’t. Wonky FR aside, they are a very capable and technical headphone. Couldn’t hold a birthday cakes worth of candles to my HE1000 stealth, but compared to similarly prices headphones, they can easily out perform most in that bracket.
I’m curious how the average user would apply this level of fine grained EQ. I realize that Resolve has a $30,000 measurement rig so he can measure as he’s applying the EQ but for the rest of us how would one achieve this result and know if it’s correct?
@ Tough to EQ that fine grained by ear. I’m comfortable EQ’ing small cuts and adds but fine grained is very tricky by ear. Thanks for the response. Hard skip for me.
Hi, My iems are making a pop sound whenever for example I play or pause a video. Or also when someone starts/stops talking while being on a discord call. I´m using mangird xenns top with a fiio ka17 dongle. Any idea what could be causing it? It must be the dongle because when connecting the iems straight to the 3.5mm port on the pc front panel takes away the popping sound. Any idea? This is driving me crazy. Thanks for your time
You know it’s a problem when ALMOST the entire gaming headset market measures better than this thing. Before watching I was originally gonna say “I’m gonna de-cup your Hifiman sounds like a threat”, but after seeing the graph, this thing needed hope that it didn’t have.
>I can fix her Is there any sense at all to make such fine grauned adjustments, especially in the treble and with over ear headphones? Even more so copy them from someone? I was under the impression that even with a personalized, by the ear approach that would be ineffective since these narrow peaks would shift with positional variation between listening sessions, going out if the frequency range of narrow Q filters. And you are likely to just end up with some additional narrow Q notches in the FR without even smoothing the peaks.
Somehow they made a closed back with massive bass roll off…impressive. They should make a BT version of this and use DSP to make it sound decent. Given how cheap BT headphones can be nowadays, I can’t imagine making it wireless will add much expense to manufacturing so they can probably charge the same amount.
Wellll.... yes and no. Closed cups resonate, but it doesn't have to be bass resonance. It can just as easily be in the mids or treble. Closed backs can sound really wooly and cramped because they have too much resonance somewhere in the midrange. And then you have to consider that the closed back, even if it has sympathetic bass resonance, it is out of phase with the primary impulses, so often there is filtering diminishing the amplitude. A bit of the bass goes through an inversion right behind the impulse and then covers almost no distance, so a lot of the energy of the initial impulse doesn't transfer to your head. Not to mention, bass waves are room-sized. The cups are too small to act as much of a resonant source in the first place... as in, the bass gets too big and strong to be contained, preferring to carry more to the regions outside of the cups than back to you... unless they've figured out how to scale ports tuned for sub bass down that small. Hard to see how, when you see the proportions needed to fit a working one in even a 5" woofer cab. Closed back is also just another word for "full rear damping." The driver can't excurt as far with as much energy because of the pressure inhibiting rear travel. Makes it harder to make loud bass waves, more so the lower you go. And then there's that whole port deal. To get more extension from a sealed enclosure, you need a tuned port or a massively more efficient driver with more xmax. Ideally, sealing the driver in an enclosure improves bass. Sealed subwoofers are a good example. Bass is more omni than mids or treble and it takes a lot more energy for us to be able to perceive it. If you seal the back, you tighten the dispersion. And since it only makes bass, you can have more driver mass and excursion, which then needs the seal to control peaks and breakup. Now more of the net amplitude has to travel out from the front of the driver and the driver can't wiggle out of control as much so it has wider and more consistent range. The question for headphones is if you've also damped higher FR cup resonance, and if you can make a driver that can travel the extra distance - if it can't, it's either weaker bass or terrible IMD when you seal the cups. With dynamic drivers, they tend to hover around 30-40mm for a reason. They're running full range and that's the size for that distance. Bigger can make bass more efficiently, but more mass is harder to stop (boomy,) and slower to start (lowering the maximum frequency on the high end.) And then on the flipside, Audeze LCD2C's, which have some of the strongest, cleanest, deepest bass out there are full open back and slightly closed on the front with heavy front seal. Those are flat 106mm planar drivers. The bass comes from the front seal keeping more of it between yer ears, and a big driver that doesn't need to travel far to displace the air needed to carry sub-bass at appreciable amplitude. And it does it with *unrealistically* low distortion. I've never heard a closed back that even gets close. Think of it this way. Those open Audezes are basically encasing your ear inside of a sealed speaker cabinet. It's only open on the back when they're on your head. And then the pads and clamp only let it exit through the back, so the back of those is actually the front of a subwoofer that your ears are inside of. With a sealed headphone, your ears are back on the outside, between the front of the subwoofer and a wall, increasing the restriction and thus the roll off of lower frequencies. And your head is not big enough to act as a bass diaphragm like a wall can. Like, at least 20 times too small to hold a single sub bass wave oscillation. The whole wave can contact the wall, but only parts of that same wave are contacting something as small and rounded as a skull. Closed back CAN give you bass, but never on its own and often not how you want. That's why a lot of them just don't bother trying.
The Sundara Closed is so horrible. I love Hifiman as a brand, because of headphones like the Edition XS, Sundara Open, Arya Organic, Ananda Nano. They are incredible in terms of sound and value. The Sundara Closed started off at $400 if I remember correctly and that consituted an abysmal value. Even at $129 there are many much better closed-back headphones (i.e. Audio Technica MSR7b, Audio Technica PRO5X, Fiio JT1, Pioneer HRM-7, AKG k361 & K371).
I wish there was an attachment for the dt990 to make them closed if i want to. Sometimes you just need to not hear every small noise but paying 150 for closed ones its like. Why...
So what you're saying is... I can put some duct tape over the cups of my Sundara and make my own closed back Sundara and there's a decent chance it will look and sound better than a real Sundara closed?
@TheHEADPHONEShow Read that with great pleasure already, thanks! I'd like to know when we could expect to hear Andrew's perspective as well. And see some more squigglies too, of course.
The driver shape and size leads me to question if this driver was actually meant for another headphone. Hifiman already has numerous round drivers they use for headphones at numerous pricepoints, and yet this one has a sideways oval driver that looks awkward in a round earcup. I wonder if Hifiman had stock of these oval drivers from another project or failed product that never hit the market and this was there way of selling it off? I'm honestly not sure; I'd love to hear the real story behind these because the sound quality leads me to believe they did limited to zero testing on these.
For the first time, this video force me to rethink objectivity. I like this pair of headphones a lot. I have other pairs of headphones, some of them are praised, some of them are rejected. Except the upper bass /lower mids, nothing bother me here. I sold my Aeon closed 1 because I could not bare the upper mids. I find the 109 to be so harsh sounding that I could never buy them. I will never sell the Sundara Closed. And I never tried to compare them to opened Sundara, do not care at all. It's ok to disagree.
Yeah, I like mine - they don’t sound like Sundara to me but that didn’t surprise me nor did expect it - but that being said, I think HiFiMAN would have been better off NOT calling it the Sundara Closed. 😂
I subjectively disagree with the statement that the Sundara Closed is hot garbage. I'm not saying it's great by any means. But unlistenable feels bit harsh. I own the Ariya, Edition XS, Sundara Closed, 6XX, 560S, FT1, Pro4s, amongst some of them. One would say enough material to compare it with. I modded my Sundara-closed. Bought it specially to mod it since it is cheap. This means I can't compare it anymore in stock form. But once purchased, I never had the experience that the headset was unusable or unbearable. I listened to varius genres and tested it in gaming. It was fine to me. Would I recommend it? No. Would I buy it again, probably not. But, I also wouldn't call it hot garbage.
Ps. Was more disappointed in the FT1 I bought based on your recommendation and the recommendation of DMS. FT1, in my humble opinion, is great for gaming, COD B6 specifically. But, to me (N=1), it is not enjoyable for music listening.
so you literally have a different unit than resolve. What was the point of your comment again? "Well it's bec..." I'll answer that for you, there isn't one.
@joebest6582 It seems it's challenging for you to comprehend the message. Let me simplify it for you. I don't agree. Used the Sundara Closed in stock form. Listened to music with it in stock form. Listened to more than one genre in stock form. Played games with it in stock form. During that time, I never thought the Sundara Closed sucked. Never thought it was a bad headset. I have multiple headsets. At the time, I compared the Sundara Closed in stock form with my other headsets. It was fine to me. Not the best. But also, not crap. As of today, I can't compare it anymore in stock form. Because, I modded it.
Western reviewers have a strange evaluation system, separating tone grade and subjectivity. Chinese manufacturers don’t invest much in design and research. Moreover, targeting a specific sound signature isn’t something Sennheiser typically does. Have you ever wondered why Sennheiser avoids this? Everyone has fallen into Sean Olive’s trap. LOL.
I have doubts about their listening ability and experience. Have the Headphone Show crew members ever published their listening test scores (e.g., How to Listen) on their website or RUclips?
Come on! You don't like Sundara Closed, as it sounds non-Harman. I bought it a month ago to try the "Shame" grade headphones, and you know what? They are wild, nonstandard, fresh, and interesting. It is a beast. Won't advise them as first or main headphones, but if you're tired of "everything sounds the same," then give it a try. They are not as Sundara Open, but they are far from Bad. P.S.: "Oratory" and other "EQ" made it sound like junk. Pure NOS from K11 R2R through 4,4 is interesting, and in some genres even great. "You should EQ all your headphones" - LOL.
@ very true! I bought them on sale, just understand “how bad it can be”, but instead of “shame” I found an interesting, comfortable pair of cans, that in certain genres are my favorite now! After the 1st hour I wanted to repeat again and again that meme where I man say “Yes, you all wrong” to thousands.
@ nope. Mid-30th and perfectly hear to 17k. After Arya Organic I can’t be impressed with any peaks. For 1,3k Organic peaks are “Airy, and crispy”, but in cheap pair it is disaster, Insane, “we can’t EQ it to Harman”-shame.
when you do the Arya Unveiled review, it would be ~very cool~ if you included a comparison between an Edition XS EQ'd to taste vs the stock Arya Unveiled 🐸
It's not an all-arounder but I like the sound for certain genres. I know that the headphone influencer cartel doesn't like it, but I don't care. I trust my own ears. That graph doesn't sound like anything. You are just interpreting it. Ours is as subjective hobby. You need to acknowledge these are your OPINIONS not shared by all audiophiles just among the Headphone Cartel. I'm surprised how little you knew about the driver as well. I have known since it came out that it was its own design. Cups not wood? Take the back off? Come on...
Headphones cartel? Lmao you’re so cute. The graph is fine, if you can’t hear a sine sweep and imagine how bad your favorite songs will be like from the graph alone without even using the headphones once then you’re not a real audiophile. This hobby is all about GRAPHS and influencers, NOT music or listening to it. You’re a part of the problem, do better
These are shockingly bad sounding headphones. I eventually removed the foam off of the front of the driver (it is glued to the magnets, FYI) and it did make a significant improvement. Being an irreversible mod, I would only suggest it to people who are at the point of just throwing them out (which would be reasonable given their stock sound). Nothing about this headphone makes sense.
I'd assume the most common method is to use a computer, phone, or tablet (as the to audio source) and an EQ program. You'd then need to manually enter in the EQ figures or copy-paste ones that someone else has pre-configured for your specific headphone or desired sound. You'd connect your headphones to your computer... or to your amp fed from your DAC connected to your computer. The problem with this method is that it requires a computer, phone, or tablet. Want to listen from CD player, vinyl record player, or tape deck with EQ? _No can do._ This is why I avoid EQ altogether and instead select from my stable of headphones which have each been specifically pad-swapped. Granted, the cost of so many headphones and earpads is not inexpensive. But the end results are 100% natural and truly impressive. Plus, I can now enjoy all of my headphones with all audio sources without EQ.
It's actually kind of impressive how HIFIMAN so badly misses the mark on their Closed Back Headphones. As someone who just uses a Schiit Lokius to tweak a little here and there... is the purpose of EQ to always hit like the Harmon curve or a certain measurement with "every" headphone? Wouldn't that kind of make every headphone sound the same if so?
I bought one of these over a year ago and the sound was not as good as what I was expecting. Time to get rid of them by selling them or gifting them. I recently got the FiiO FT1 Closed back and that headphone sounds way better to my ears!
Your ranking video, and this one absolutely steered me away from these. Thank you! Liked how you shared EQ profile for those who did. Was wondering if you could share the EQ profile you use for the Sundara Open to make them better. Got a pair of those which would be great to tune up if you will.
Honestly, get them and the mod from Custom Cans and they actually sound amazing! They have an incredibly flat response with no harsh peaks anywhere! Stock are meh, do not try open back lol, but with that mod they are amazing and i have been daily driving them for 2 months, my Edition XS are awesome amd i still love them but they do get harsh and sibilant especially in the S and T sound range. Some track i have to skip altogether. Never had that with the modded closed backs
frequency response charts are NOT enough! PLEASE measure headphones in more ways than one ?? timing for example ? our ears and brains are a LOT more sensitive to timing than volume, you are a one horse pony, this comment has nothing to do with this video per se, but you ONLY talk about frequency response !!
Time domain information is proportional to frequency response in minimum phase devices. Headphones are minimum phase devices unless something is very broken. But essentially there's no reason to care about things like CSD in headphones because that's just a worse view of the FR, again unless you can demonstrate issues in excess group delay. We talk about FR a lot, because FR at the eardrum is by far the most influential factor when it comes to sound quality. And I know you're skeptical of this, I was at first too. But the more you learn about it the more obvious this becomes. So I encourage you to look into it beyond what I've said here.
Sundara Closed Unveiled.
sundara organic stealth closed unveiled se s xs x i open II jr pro bt wired stealth magnets v2
That's neat idea, Hifiman have really bad closed back over the years I think they should give them unveiled treatment 🤣🤣🤣
Unearthing its true evil character
Sundara reopened
I came here to post the same thing!
We live in a timeline where resolve smiles more often than hifiman makes a decent closed back.
This is indeed a disturbing universe (James Earl Jones voice coming out of Maggie Simpson after she killed Groundskeeper Willie in the one treehouse of horror with the time traveling toaster)
The poster behind Resolve already spoiled the whole video.
A headphone so bad, the reviews feel like troll comments.
It really isn't that bad!
Another youtube comment from someone who has never listened to this headphone
@NFStopsnuf yet another youtube comment that assumed I didn't.
I always chuckle at these apologists glazing a bad sounding headphone with the nonsense excuse, "well have you listened"
They're terrible headphones@Happydale-f9r
@@PaulsLittleRoom 🧏♂️
It was on my consideration list in 2023 when I was looking out for a decent HP. I saw that the price for the Closed was lower than the open-back version, read the reviews and... bought the Sundara.
It's the same driver as the beloved Audivina.
Oh, that just couldn't go wrong...
“Beloved”
Really?????
@@fishbarbeque8540 yes
The poster behind him was my wallet after he hinted at how good the Arya unveiled is
*uncloses your sundaras*
*circumcises your sundara closed*
This is such cool video, I'm glad people are still talkign about the lower end Hifimans. I was TORN between The Sundara-C, and the R9, I got the R9, and it would be GREAT if you would do an earcup removal of the R9! That would be sick to see.
Welcome to the precision EQ gang Resolve!
What do you mean... 'welcome' lol. I go ham with EQ for myself with every headphone
@@TheHEADPHONEShow Those Q 7.0 adjustments are just flexing frfr
@@kamikamieu Oh man I was sorta self conscious that I have....15 or so cuts and boosts applied to my Edition XS and 60% of those Q values around 5.8-7 with 2-3 going to 9. All of the granular adjustments sitting between 500hz and 5khz.
The Edition XS has taught me a few things about myself and EQing in general: that I am insufferably neurotic when it comes to my upper midrange and lower treble tuning. My ears are sensitive specifically to the narrow 3-4khz band and needs to be dropped below Harman. Some genres, spicy metal genres with a lot of reverb and poorly tamed vocals/guitars in particular, just cant be EQed into salvation if you prefer a presentation style that deviates too far away from a particular headphones stock sound profile, even planar over-ear that can handle illegal amounts of EQ like the XS.
Thank You. This video is gold for me! I own sundara closed-back 1 year. I copy and paste this EQ profile. I am a quiet impressed. Sound is now better.I never did EQs. I am just own ifi zen dac 2 and with truebass-on the sundara closed-back sounds me good, I liked it. I know it is total entry-level headphones from hifiman, I thought this sound is ok. Your video makes me looking to sundara closed back in different look. Thank you for learning me, how to EQ propertly. (I own Audeze Mobius, Sony MDR-1RBT) I am planing to buy Hifiman Edition XS or save more money for Hifiman Arya Organic. And will buy Ifi Zen Can 3, because these Hifiman planars need more power. What do you think? Any idea?
I actually really like my Sundara Closed. That being said I like it given its price at like $130 not nearly close to its original MSRP. Now that being said it still has a very weird sound signature, the frequency response is actually a bit closer to the Caldera Closed minus that weird resonance around 600hz. However the treble do be peaky as hell so depending on your head it might be nasty, on my head it works well.
OH, SHIT - Love the family friendly background.
How many units have you heard/measured? My two were worlds apart.
Another reason I'd never buy Hifiman, they still haven't figured out QC
I owned these for a couple of days. ... The combination of bad sound quality and terrible comfort easily made it one of the worst headphones I ever encountered. Typical Hifiman...
Is it posible to rotate the driver 90 ° (so its placed vertical)? And how would it change the sound?
Thats one thing I wonder, if you flip a driver around with the song play backwards?
@fishbarbeque8540 Well, i think, that's not how it works. If you flip the driver you will hear the backwaves of the driver. So it will be almost the same, just with a tiny time offset. And maybe also with different tuning, because the drivers aren't made to be heard from the backside.
To turn the (planer magnetic) driver vertically can change the tuning of the headphone, in a good or bad way.
And in the video it looked like it is possible to rotate the driver plate.
I have always asked the question to other headphone reviewers over the years , why don't they ever mention how a headphone responds to EQ adjustments? We all have our preferences in how we like our music to sound so what's wrong with doing a bit of EQ tweaking ? It's like it's a sin for other reviewers to even mention those dreaded letters EQ. It's refreshing to see you cover that subject and even show a graph of how these headphones respond to your adjustments. Thanks !
Go to Audio Science Review if you want opinions on how a headphone responds to EQ.
I love those measurements of before/after EQ. Is there a chance of a more in depth video about how EQ settings translate to the real measurements?
You can't beat up your son to make him into a soldier. Never, ever forget that.
Stalin was beaten quite often as a kid ...
@@AnotherWhoHitTheDust Was he a good soldier?
I was able to eq them and it's okay but my biggest problem is they're not very isolating for a closed back.
Hey, which over ear do you suggest for waterproof
I wonder if there are any hardware mods that would work to fix it. If I had the time right now I would buy one to experiment to see if I could fix it.
Would it still be a Sundara Closed if it was completely retuned lol
@私気に成ります what if it could be a Sundara closed that sounded like a regular Sundara 👀
Dunno why the hate, I bought them for 150 USD and cannot complain seriously... People expected Sundara, but closed, I expected a catastrophe. After I got them and used them, they are solid, not a disaster
That's interesting. I was hoping removing the cups would help. The Monolith 1060c turned into an AMAZING headphone when you removed the cups.
as usual, an enlightening video. i no longer have the Eris (I'm the one that Zeos paid back cash at CanJam SoCal) but I wonder if you ever EQed them satisfactorily. they were wonderfully comfortable and the cable was excellent but that midbass... I have since snagged FT-1s and love them but I could stand just a smidge of mid bass reduction. i am a long listener of speakers that accurately plumbed to 16Hz (IMF/Fried RSPMs) so I need the low bass. the FT-1s do go down to 30 so I am fine with them. i also have Hifiman 4XXsl that I eq with my Monlith THX dac/amp to near that. As you can tell, I am a cheap bastard but you certainly ranked the FT-1s the way I would. they do not have the airy fine extension that I would prefer but I'm happy.
I like the SC. It was only intended to be like Sundara by headband and price point. It has the driver based on research done on the R10P driver (I was told this by HFM at CanJam NYC). Do you hate them too? Have you tried pad rolling?? The pad ring is different. You need to email HFM, and they arrange to send you the rings for the same price as the other round rings at $10. The stock pads do not do this headphone justice, and I dislike the feel of their pads too. Love it with ZMF perforated sheepskin that came with my Atrium. It makes them richer and more fun sounding, move v shaped. Also great with Brainwavz hybrid angled pads which give it more soundstage and fullness.
I do NOT try to EQ my headphones to sound like any predetermined curve. I like how they sound different, or even very different. Why would I want to try to make them all sound the same?? Then just buy one headphone and be done with it. When I post in my headphone groups about the SC lots of folks love them, but half seem to be parroting bad reviews saying you and other don't like them so why even try. I hear good, controlled bass, detailed mids and open treble that is far from being sharp (when compared with other closed HP in my collection under $500). And, I have my ears checked annually for health and to make sure no wax buildup. When is the last time you had your ears checked?? Love your reviews, except on SC. Thanks!
I agree with you! It's weird how all the influencers circle the wagons once they make a "judgment" about a headphone.
This is what happens when you go through life never being checked on your education.
Calling it a Sundra was probably not the best decision.
Oh hey, I did this as well recently! Made a post on Reddit with measurements on my clone rig but barely anyone saw it.
Custom Cans mod, problem solved.
;)
100%!. The custom cans mod needs more exposure. I really like my Sundara closed after adding the foam. I have the earpad mod too but not needed that yet.
@TheHEADPHONEShow I would love to see a test of this (cheap) mod and a comparison vs EQ!
@@CustomCans I don't see these on your website anymore. Is it coming back in stock soon? Thanks!
@@mkwetherell Ah sorry - I have updated the stock and it is available again.... They must have sold out after this video ;)
My ORIGINAL sundaras are falling apart bro XD
Now add the closed cups to a normal sundara and see whats the best!
I never thought any Sundara was great or legendary & I owned all versions of them, I prefer the HD 600
What EQ software do you use? Its weird to me that windows doesnt have an inbuilt equalizer
Pero señor Resolve, me gustan mis Sundara CB ;-;
Thanks Resolve! Can you get that Sundara feeling if you jusTt wear it without connecting to a source?
HI, I have a stupid question... I come from the car-audio world, in sound quality installations we almost always use the LP Linkwitz filter (for bass). Recently I download and use EQ profile for Sennheiser HD 6xx, area below 100hz is boosted by almost 7db - you can hear this transducer is barely alive(becomes slow and "clumsy").Wouldn't it be a good idea us lp linkwitz for headphones? This should improve speed (ofc subjective ) and reduce distortion.
Edit: just add in APO 30hz lp 24db/oct filter(LRHP), now this hadphone(6xx) are difrent beast:)
And what happens if you put those enclosures on regular Sundaras?
GREAT question, that I hope is tested with, that would be really fun.
2:49 who pissed on the wall and a frequency graph out of it
I have the Sundara closed and for the price I like how they sound, the comfort and build quality. So for listening to RUclips videos like this they sound fine.
Eww....What are your other headphones? A pair of coconuts? These sound worse than $20 headphones.
Lie
@ na, to my ears they sound better than any of my Bluetooth Bose headphones, not as good as any of my open backs but for listening to RUclips videos at night in bed these closed backs for $129 are a steal.
@1TechCritic420 It is very easy to open these up and add the Custom Cans damping kit, try it, no? Well you won't know then.
@1TechCritic420no they don’t. Wonky FR aside, they are a very capable and technical headphone. Couldn’t hold a birthday cakes worth of candles to my HE1000 stealth, but compared to similarly prices headphones, they can easily out perform most in that bracket.
I’m curious how the average user would apply this level of fine grained EQ. I realize that Resolve has a $30,000 measurement rig so he can measure as he’s applying the EQ but for the rest of us how would one achieve this result and know if it’s correct?
You'd have to do it by ear, that's part of the problem.
@ Tough to EQ that fine grained by ear. I’m comfortable EQ’ing small cuts and adds but fine grained is very tricky by ear. Thanks for the response. Hard skip for me.
you use sound processor in davinci resolve using plugin and see which part of a song has peaks or dips and EQ that particular frequency.
@ Or I could just purchase a capable headphone and be done with it. Resolve is a colorist software not an audio tool.
What if you took the damping on the front volume as well?
You missed the opportunity at 1:10 to say "Open" minded.
Hi,
My iems are making a pop sound whenever for example I play or pause a video. Or also when someone starts/stops talking while being on a discord call. I´m using mangird xenns top with a fiio ka17 dongle. Any idea what could be causing it?
It must be the dongle because when connecting the iems straight to the 3.5mm port on the pc front panel takes away the popping sound.
Any idea? This is driving me crazy. Thanks for your time
this happened to me only when attaching or detaching a headphone or iem to a DAC dongle. maybe it has to do with signal processing
You know it’s a problem when ALMOST the entire gaming headset market measures better than this thing. Before watching I was originally gonna say “I’m gonna de-cup your Hifiman sounds like a threat”, but after seeing the graph, this thing needed hope that it didn’t have.
the oh shit picture 😂😂😂
>I can fix her
Is there any sense at all to make such fine grauned adjustments, especially in the treble and with over ear headphones? Even more so copy them from someone?
I was under the impression that even with a personalized, by the ear approach that would be ineffective since these narrow peaks would shift with positional variation between listening sessions, going out if the frequency range of narrow Q filters. And you are likely to just end up with some additional narrow Q notches in the FR without even smoothing the peaks.
Sundara Uncupped
Somehow they made a closed back with massive bass roll off…impressive.
They should make a BT version of this and use DSP to make it sound decent. Given how cheap BT headphones can be nowadays, I can’t imagine making it wireless will add much expense to manufacturing so they can probably charge the same amount.
Wellll.... yes and no. Closed cups resonate, but it doesn't have to be bass resonance. It can just as easily be in the mids or treble. Closed backs can sound really wooly and cramped because they have too much resonance somewhere in the midrange. And then you have to consider that the closed back, even if it has sympathetic bass resonance, it is out of phase with the primary impulses, so often there is filtering diminishing the amplitude. A bit of the bass goes through an inversion right behind the impulse and then covers almost no distance, so a lot of the energy of the initial impulse doesn't transfer to your head. Not to mention, bass waves are room-sized. The cups are too small to act as much of a resonant source in the first place... as in, the bass gets too big and strong to be contained, preferring to carry more to the regions outside of the cups than back to you... unless they've figured out how to scale ports tuned for sub bass down that small. Hard to see how, when you see the proportions needed to fit a working one in even a 5" woofer cab.
Closed back is also just another word for "full rear damping." The driver can't excurt as far with as much energy because of the pressure inhibiting rear travel. Makes it harder to make loud bass waves, more so the lower you go. And then there's that whole port deal. To get more extension from a sealed enclosure, you need a tuned port or a massively more efficient driver with more xmax.
Ideally, sealing the driver in an enclosure improves bass. Sealed subwoofers are a good example. Bass is more omni than mids or treble and it takes a lot more energy for us to be able to perceive it. If you seal the back, you tighten the dispersion. And since it only makes bass, you can have more driver mass and excursion, which then needs the seal to control peaks and breakup. Now more of the net amplitude has to travel out from the front of the driver and the driver can't wiggle out of control as much so it has wider and more consistent range.
The question for headphones is if you've also damped higher FR cup resonance, and if you can make a driver that can travel the extra distance - if it can't, it's either weaker bass or terrible IMD when you seal the cups.
With dynamic drivers, they tend to hover around 30-40mm for a reason. They're running full range and that's the size for that distance. Bigger can make bass more efficiently, but more mass is harder to stop (boomy,) and slower to start (lowering the maximum frequency on the high end.) And then on the flipside, Audeze LCD2C's, which have some of the strongest, cleanest, deepest bass out there are full open back and slightly closed on the front with heavy front seal. Those are flat 106mm planar drivers. The bass comes from the front seal keeping more of it between yer ears, and a big driver that doesn't need to travel far to displace the air needed to carry sub-bass at appreciable amplitude. And it does it with *unrealistically* low distortion. I've never heard a closed back that even gets close.
Think of it this way. Those open Audezes are basically encasing your ear inside of a sealed speaker cabinet. It's only open on the back when they're on your head. And then the pads and clamp only let it exit through the back, so the back of those is actually the front of a subwoofer that your ears are inside of. With a sealed headphone, your ears are back on the outside, between the front of the subwoofer and a wall, increasing the restriction and thus the roll off of lower frequencies. And your head is not big enough to act as a bass diaphragm like a wall can. Like, at least 20 times too small to hold a single sub bass wave oscillation. The whole wave can contact the wall, but only parts of that same wave are contacting something as small and rounded as a skull.
Closed back CAN give you bass, but never on its own and often not how you want. That's why a lot of them just don't bother trying.
The Sundara Closed is so horrible. I love Hifiman as a brand, because of headphones like the Edition XS, Sundara Open, Arya Organic, Ananda Nano. They are incredible in terms of sound and value. The Sundara Closed started off at $400 if I remember correctly and that consituted an abysmal value. Even at $129 there are many much better closed-back headphones (i.e. Audio Technica MSR7b, Audio Technica PRO5X, Fiio JT1, Pioneer HRM-7, AKG k361 & K371).
Holy Moly 😮
pls review zildjian alchem-e perfect tune headphone
thats wild what a madlad
I wish there was an attachment for the dt990 to make them closed if i want to. Sometimes you just need to not hear every small noise but paying 150 for closed ones its like. Why...
i mean, pudjam did make headphones where you can switch between open and closed
probably just get the HE400se, cheap and cheerful
B... but it is cheaper sundara in the market tho 😅
So what you're saying is... I can put some duct tape over the cups of my Sundara and make my own closed back Sundara and there's a decent chance it will look and sound better than a real Sundara closed?
What? You created a Sundara Unveiled? 😂
SoftEars Volume S review when?
Listener just put up his written review last night which you can read here! headphones.com/blogs/reviews/softears-volume-s-2024s-best-iem
@TheHEADPHONEShow Read that with great pleasure already, thanks! I'd like to know when we could expect to hear Andrew's perspective as well. And see some more squigglies too, of course.
Pain and wonder 👀
How did this even get released ?? $$ Greed ???
The driver shape and size leads me to question if this driver was actually meant for another headphone. Hifiman already has numerous round drivers they use for headphones at numerous pricepoints, and yet this one has a sideways oval driver that looks awkward in a round earcup. I wonder if Hifiman had stock of these oval drivers from another project or failed product that never hit the market and this was there way of selling it off? I'm honestly not sure; I'd love to hear the real story behind these because the sound quality leads me to believe they did limited to zero testing on these.
For the first time, this video force me to rethink objectivity. I like this pair of headphones a lot. I have other pairs of headphones, some of them are praised, some of them are rejected. Except the upper bass /lower mids, nothing bother me here. I sold my Aeon closed 1 because I could not bare the upper mids. I find the 109 to be so harsh sounding that I could never buy them. I will never sell the Sundara Closed. And I never tried to compare them to opened Sundara, do not care at all. It's ok to disagree.
Could be unit variance. It's very bad with these.
Yeah, I like mine - they don’t sound like Sundara to me but that didn’t surprise me nor did expect it - but that being said, I think HiFiMAN would have been better off NOT calling it the Sundara Closed. 😂
I subjectively disagree with the statement that the Sundara Closed is hot garbage. I'm not saying it's great by any means. But unlistenable feels bit harsh. I own the Ariya, Edition XS, Sundara Closed, 6XX, 560S, FT1, Pro4s, amongst some of them. One would say enough material to compare it with. I modded my Sundara-closed. Bought it specially to mod it since it is cheap. This means I can't compare it anymore in stock form. But once purchased, I never had the experience that the headset was unusable or unbearable. I listened to varius genres and tested it in gaming. It was fine to me. Would I recommend it? No. Would I buy it again, probably not. But, I also wouldn't call it hot garbage.
Ps. Was more disappointed in the FT1 I bought based on your recommendation and the recommendation of DMS. FT1, in my humble opinion, is great for gaming, COD B6 specifically. But, to me (N=1), it is not enjoyable for music listening.
I also agree with this. I use them often. Influencers and their big $$$ ears be damned.
so you literally have a different unit than resolve. What was the point of your comment again? "Well it's bec..." I'll answer that for you, there isn't one.
@joebest6582 It seems it's challenging for you to comprehend the message. Let me simplify it for you. I don't agree. Used the Sundara Closed in stock form. Listened to music with it in stock form. Listened to more than one genre in stock form. Played games with it in stock form. During that time, I never thought the Sundara Closed sucked. Never thought it was a bad headset. I have multiple headsets. At the time, I compared the Sundara Closed in stock form with my other headsets. It was fine to me. Not the best. But also, not crap. As of today, I can't compare it anymore in stock form. Because, I modded it.
Listening to music via Qobuz. Btw.
Excited for the hifiman arya unveiled review 🔥🔥. I can't believe sundara closed and arya unveiled are from same brand 🤦♂️
Western reviewers have a strange evaluation system, separating tone grade and subjectivity. Chinese manufacturers don’t invest much in design and research. Moreover, targeting a specific sound signature isn’t something Sennheiser typically does. Have you ever wondered why Sennheiser avoids this? Everyone has fallen into Sean Olive’s trap. LOL.
I have doubts about their listening ability and experience. Have the Headphone Show crew members ever published their listening test scores (e.g., How to Listen) on their website or RUclips?
Come on! You don't like Sundara Closed, as it sounds non-Harman.
I bought it a month ago to try the "Shame" grade headphones, and you know what? They are wild, nonstandard, fresh, and interesting. It is a beast.
Won't advise them as first or main headphones, but if you're tired of "everything sounds the same," then give it a try. They are not as Sundara Open, but they are far from Bad.
P.S.: "Oratory" and other "EQ" made it sound like junk. Pure NOS from K11 R2R through 4,4 is interesting, and in some genres even great.
"You should EQ all your headphones" - LOL.
I agree! They are a bold tuning and very fresh. I enjoy them for certain genres. I'm SO glad I got thes against the advice of the Influencer Cartel.
@ very true! I bought them on sale, just understand “how bad it can be”, but instead of “shame” I found an interesting, comfortable pair of cans, that in certain genres are my favorite now! After the 1st hour I wanted to repeat again and again that meme where I man say “Yes, you all wrong” to thousands.
Or or, you are 58 and can't hear that 20db treble peak. Just a thought.
@ nope. Mid-30th and perfectly hear to 17k.
After Arya Organic I can’t be impressed with any peaks. For 1,3k Organic peaks are “Airy, and crispy”, but in cheap pair it is disaster, Insane, “we can’t EQ it to Harman”-shame.
ruclips.net/video/_9mcaGU-VRE/видео.html
I tried these at CanJam a few years ago and were blown away at how rubbish they were. Biggest disappointment of the show by far.
when you do the Arya Unveiled review, it would be ~very cool~ if you included a comparison between an Edition XS EQ'd to taste vs the stock Arya Unveiled 🐸
Closed backs that sound good are the Trix, and Hifiman is the rabbit
It's not an all-arounder but I like the sound for certain genres. I know that the headphone influencer cartel doesn't like it, but I don't care. I trust my own ears. That graph doesn't sound like anything. You are just interpreting it. Ours is as subjective hobby. You need to acknowledge these are your OPINIONS not shared by all audiophiles just among the Headphone Cartel. I'm surprised how little you knew about the driver as well. I have known since it came out that it was its own design. Cups not wood? Take the back off? Come on...
Headphones cartel? Lmao you’re so cute. The graph is fine, if you can’t hear a sine sweep and imagine how bad your favorite songs will be like from the graph alone without even using the headphones once then you’re not a real audiophile. This hobby is all about GRAPHS and influencers, NOT music or listening to it. You’re a part of the problem, do better
@@minidee2194 is this the headfi purchase validation copium greatest hits or something?
These are shockingly bad sounding headphones. I eventually removed the foam off of the front of the driver (it is glued to the magnets, FYI) and it did make a significant improvement. Being an irreversible mod, I would only suggest it to people who are at the point of just throwing them out (which would be reasonable given their stock sound). Nothing about this headphone makes sense.
And how does 1 go about doing such EQing?
I'd assume the most common method is to use a computer, phone, or tablet (as the to audio source) and an EQ program. You'd then need to manually enter in the EQ figures or copy-paste ones that someone else has pre-configured for your specific headphone or desired sound. You'd connect your headphones to your computer... or to your amp fed from your DAC connected to your computer. The problem with this method is that it requires a computer, phone, or tablet. Want to listen from CD player, vinyl record player, or tape deck with EQ? _No can do._
This is why I avoid EQ altogether and instead select from my stable of headphones which have each been specifically pad-swapped. Granted, the cost of so many headphones and earpads is not inexpensive. But the end results are 100% natural and truly impressive. Plus, I can now enjoy all of my headphones with all audio sources without EQ.
@mattrismatt wow, thank you soo much for taking the time
@ You're welcome. Let me know if you'd like me to recommend some specific models of earpads for your headphones.
It's actually kind of impressive how HIFIMAN so badly misses the mark on their Closed Back Headphones.
As someone who just uses a Schiit Lokius to tweak a little here and there... is the purpose of EQ to always hit like the Harmon curve or a certain measurement with "every" headphone? Wouldn't that kind of make every headphone sound the same if so?
Ugh 😩
Laying the screws down on the table was just freaking me out
Has Hifiman ever made a good closed back?.....No
Google before text
I bought one of these over a year ago and the sound was not as good as what I was expecting. Time to get rid of them by selling them or gifting them. I recently got the FiiO FT1 Closed back and that headphone sounds way better to my ears!
At this point we should just agree that Hifiman can’t make a good closed-back headphone, not a single one.
Your ranking video, and this one absolutely steered me away from these. Thank you! Liked how you shared EQ profile for those who did. Was wondering if you could share the EQ profile you use for the Sundara Open to make them better. Got a pair of those which would be great to tune up if you will.
This is the audio equivalent of an earwax buildup removal.
These are nice headphones but I’m not interested in getting them I’m getting the DT770 PRO instead lol
hiss
😭
sizzle
is the treble THAT bad? ive tried the dt770 and i never had an issue with the treble,
One comment on the channel and posted immediately after the video came out. Probably an lt account troll
love this channel, but this thumbnail is unnecessarily sexist, just fyi
Honestly, get them and the mod from Custom Cans and they actually sound amazing! They have an incredibly flat response with no harsh peaks anywhere! Stock are meh, do not try open back lol, but with that mod they are amazing and i have been daily driving them for 2 months, my Edition XS are awesome amd i still love them but they do get harsh and sibilant especially in the S and T sound range. Some track i have to skip altogether. Never had that with the modded closed backs
Thanks for the shout out ;)
frequency response charts are NOT enough! PLEASE measure headphones in more ways than one ?? timing for example ? our ears and brains are a LOT more sensitive to timing than volume, you are a one horse pony, this comment has nothing to do with this video per se, but you ONLY talk about frequency response !!
Time domain information is proportional to frequency response in minimum phase devices. Headphones are minimum phase devices unless something is very broken. But essentially there's no reason to care about things like CSD in headphones because that's just a worse view of the FR, again unless you can demonstrate issues in excess group delay. We talk about FR a lot, because FR at the eardrum is by far the most influential factor when it comes to sound quality. And I know you're skeptical of this, I was at first too. But the more you learn about it the more obvious this becomes. So I encourage you to look into it beyond what I've said here.
The ignorance