The Sinclair C5 was a Curious Failure
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- In 1985, Sir Clive Sinclair launched the C5 - a pedal-powered, electrically assisted tricycle that promised to revolutionise personal transport. But within a few short months, it had turned Sinclair from success to ruin.
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I remember these being launched! Great video! Sinclair was ahead of his time. The tech was just not there in that era.
Thanks mate :)
"The Sinclair C5 was a curious failure" - I take that to mean that the C5 was curious, and not the fact that it failed! I can remember that the latter was a foregone conclusion. Sinclair was a boffin detached from reality and he must have suffered some sort of brain aberration to be so convinced this "toy" was going to be a success! You are spot on about the ride height: I was indicating to turn right in a crowded London street when at the last minute, I saw a head go past right at the bottom of the side window. That was close! I never saw another C5 on the road, thank goodness.
A great summary Ed. As someone born in the 60's I was riding motorbikes when the C5 was produced. My girlfriend at the time didn't have a licence though so we looked into these. Now I know from experience getting repaired at the hospital that motorbikes were more dangerous than cars but the C5 was even more dangerous than walking unless it had its own road (move on a few decades and cycle lanes turned up everywhere), just down to visibility as you mentioned so we left it alone. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Anthony :)
I love these Documentaries... they bring back so many memories.. Sir Clive was way ahead of his time (as the present circumstances has shown) unfortunately we, who were alive at the time didn't see it at the time....Roger....Pembrokeshire
I had one back in the day,in fact I had two as the first one broke.The reason it broke was because of the chain tensioner would come off the chain which would then fall off and you'd loose drive.Also the rear tyres were made of cheese and wore out quickly,the left brake cable would snap daily and the pedal thread into the crank also wore out so the pedals fell off but I loved it as a 13 year old only could.
Funnily enough, just as the camera was cut, the rear brake on this one seized completely.
I used to take the money at a go kart track in an old outdoor swimming pool. For 20p you could rent one of 6 or 7 Sinclair C5s for a few laps. Racing these things is HUGE fun, especially when you find out that if you ram into the back of another C5 you can tip it over.
It was the early 80s so no protective gear of course...
😂
We had one come in the shop in the early 90’s . I used to use it all the time until it ended up in the garden shed
Adding lightness is a time honoured Lotus specialty.
So says Chris Boardman the cyclist who won Olympic gold!
The Lotus Electre (electric SUV) will weigh between 2490kg and 2640kg... 😮 I suspect the days of an 800kg Elise are long gone with Lotus being repositioned as a luxury performance brand similar to Porsche or Maserati. 😐 I believe the plan for Lotus and Alpine to share a light(er) weight EV sportscar platform has been cancelled?
Great video Ed, unfortunately I’m old enough to remember them back in the day, I had the ZX Spectrum Home Computer too…it did make me smile watching you pedal that daft thing around😂
You really enjoyed this one, didn't you?
I was 12 when the C5 launched, and I recall that I couldn't wait until I was 14 so I could have one. Needless to say, that never happened.
Very well produced. I remember all of this. Some classic cars there.
I must have been 16 or 17 when these came out. I did look at them with some humour, though was tempted to get one, but decided against.
The last number of weeks Comet had these, the final reduction price was £25! They had 2 left and I had a spare £50 on me!
Nope, I just about refused to buy again! Lol, not 10 years later, they were over £2000 second hand!
If ever there was proof needed that the line between genius and madness is a very thin one, this must be it. I wonder how crazy it would be to fit a scotter engine in the back of one of these though? Hhmmmmm
24v conversion makes these do 30mph
There's a certain irony that I found your channel when you reviewed the Honda Insight and now you've reviewed the other piece of retro futurism in my collection. The C5 is a design failure in so many ways but I wouldn't sell mine for the world.
A nice li-po and motor upgrade would make even more fun.
You nailed it by saying it wasn't as good as a bicycle.
If you look at around the 10 minute mark, your seated height was almost identical to that of the drivers of those two cars...
Adorable: That's the first word that came to mind, simply adorable.
As seeing them on TV back then when I was a kid now I have electric bikes it gave me an idea retro fit it with modern electric bike parts and battery add disk brakes and mtb gears and I think it should run better and longer.
A few years ago I was pulled over on a country road by a police car while driving (ok, mainly pedaling) my Sinclair C5 I wondered what offence I might have committed… it seemed that the driver had just wanted a look and to sit in my C5 while his companion just groaned at us and grumbled about wasting his time. I’ve still got my C5 but only use it on back roads in fine weather. Honestly it’s worn better than I have in the years since I bought it way back in 1985.
Done it to me again Ed, the want is real, but trying to find one for without paying silly money is the downside.
See if Sir Clive had marketed that now alongside electric scooters and bikes, he would have had a success story.
This was the right product developed at the wrong time and in a country that has never provided enough infrastructure for cyclists. With modern battery technology these might have had more success particularly in cities with congestion charges.
Wow! Didn't know about the Delorean/ Belfast connection. At the time, I always thought this was rubbish. Who would desire or aspire to own one, ever? It wasn't revolutionary, it was a bike with a small motor. The Ami is one to consider based upon needs, the C5 was not. Great review.
Thanks Andy :)
thank you for the video
Great video Ed.
Thanks Stephen :)
Can any one help me. What is the kayaking coloured vintage van next to the red escort in the background ? It’s not in manor classics catalogue.
Sag, I hate spell check! Khaki
As a regular rider of an electric bycicle, i'd like to ad that the electric engine ads friction (comparable to driving uphill) once the batterie is empty.
To me and all my friends it wasn't a failure at all , because we made a group that races c5s we even made one that goes 70mph and we were the first ones to do a national climb on a electric vehicle, To me and me friends the c5 was a legendary machine that made England great to us
Featured in the TV film "Micro Men".
brilliant
tho a genius sinclair really underestimated the integrity of the public with the c5
In the current climate these could maybe make a come back if suitably updated. Then again Renault tried it with the Twizy, you don't see them around either.
I don't think the Twizy is really comparable to the C5. It was produced to fill the same market segment as the Citroen Ami.
Looks-wise, it could be produced today and not look out of place.
Flexible plastic is better than solid as its not brittle plus the thin plastic is to keep it light.
Of course, but image is everything, and a high purchase price didn't help when it didn't feel like a quality product.
@@TwinCam id love one, i remember seeing a young lad drive one around a filed at a steam rally once, it went quite fast i remember☺😎
Another reason it failed? Two words: English weather. 😂
So this thing had one-quarter the power of a modern ebike, one-thrid the range and designed to kill the rider. The people today moan about the limitations of the modern ebike.
Isn't it very easy to fit an ebike with a motor that exceeds the maximum legal 500W output? (where 350-400W is about what a very competent amateur cyclist can sustain, 500W is what a professional cyclist can sustain and about 1kW is what a professional can produce briefly on a sprint or climb?)
Would they have helped with congestion? They only transport one person… cars and buses a lot more. push Bikes may help congestion rather better.
Smaller vehicle = smaller space.
Even if every part was upgraded with modern technology. An electric bike is still better.
Perhaps the C5 sucked because, you know, Hoover.
That deserves a round of applause.
Anyone not concerned about emissions in the 1980s had been asleep for a decade. The same people still are.
It wasn't a consideration of any British vehicle buyer in 1985.
@@TwinCam It certainly was, especially of those who got rid a car and bought a decent bike instead.
@@MartinJames389 Cycling is not an alternative to cars for anyone who doesn't live in a major city.
@@TwinCam Ever heard of trains? You can put bikes on them and go where you want when you get off. Quicker, too.
Ever been in the Yorkshire Dales (or anywhere in rural Yorkshire) at the weekend. Loads of very fit cyclists to be found really hammering it all over the place. Not for me, not for many people much past 30, but don't give me this "major city" stuff.
@MartinJames389 I think you’ve hit the nail on the head as to why cycling isn’t popular in your own comment. It’s exercise and a hobby to most people. People want ease of use, and cycling doesn’t allow that, especially in the British climate. Add to that the fact I’m 10 minutes cycling away from my nearest train station, and thanks to a certain Mr Beeching, many growing towns don’t have train stations. Britain properly ballsed up its public transport decades ago, and it needs severe funding to fix what went wrong. Cycling isn’t a real alternative for the vast majority. Electric bikes are a help, but they aren’t immune to British weather, and can’t do long trips. Cars are vital, the single greatest boon to personal transport and freedom since the train.
i'd rather have a bicycle. i could carry more and go faster and even have a passenger , on a bicycle.
It was introduced too far ahead of it's time. In 1985 there were very few cycle lanes, pedestrianised streets and car parking in cities was much easier. Nowadays with better battery technology and infrastructure, it would do okay. I mean electric scooters are not the safest form of transport, but they seem to do okay.
That's the view from above, but from the mug potential purchasers viewpoint, the thing was expensive and the batteries were crap. That is what really mattered.
Even today, is the C5 actually better than a normal bicycle with an electric assist motor though? 🤔
I think the proliferation of extra cycling provisions would help with sales of something like this, but it would be quickly frowned upon if successful. A C5 is too wide and not manoeuvrable enough to use on many cycle paths.
I agree totally & when people jump on a bandwagon....they can't get off.
@@TassieLorenzo It would do pretty well with high quality components and if it were twice the size with an actual windshield, like the concept drawings.
If Sir Clive had increased slightly the ride height, a larger battery, removed the pedals and applied a more powerful motor he would have created a product that sells a million plus every year in the UK .... the mobility scooter. Great inventor, not so good marketeer.
With Sir Clive being a serial entrepreneur there are many innovative products that were ahead of its time, he was always gambling with technology, the TV 80 was hindered by his insistence on using CRT technology, the QL was a very advanced machine and great value buy it was held back by Sir Clive's insistence on using his micro drive technology instead of floppy discs and being a high speed device and tape based is was very unreliable and this was the death nell for the QL. There is several of his failed products that are now collectors items and are very expensive if in good condition. The Black Watch boxed and in good condition is close to 1k and his radio watch also sells for a premium if still in working order. However even through all these failure.his personL wealth kept growing mainly down to an investment he made in a Cambridge based start up, his share in this business made him very wealthy as well as his exceptional poker skills. The company he invested in was Arm the microchip mfr.
Like most knights of the realm he was fundamentally a criminal. I worked for him. None of the products he sold were any good. Only the ZX81 and spectrum, designed by other people, were in any way a success.
As you said, it was made in an surplus-to-requirements Hoover factory in my home town of Merthyr Tydfil, South Wales. I seemed to recall Hoover suing Sinclair for breach of contract when production ceased.
It really was a laughing stock.
That black XR3i looks great!
The C5 wasn't necessarily bad, but badly marketed. Should have been sold as something to use in leisure parks or seafronts, instead they tried to sell it as a serious commuting vehicle, and launched it in January.
Easy to make jokes but you have to admire the guy's balls for even pursuing a project like that, ill-judged and shortsighted though it was in so many ways!
I agree. Sometimes you have to take risks in order to succeed. Maybe Sir Clive bet too much on this one. However, I remember reading that Steve Wozniak sold his $500 Hewlett Packard calculator and Steve Jobs sold his VW to found Apple!!
I remember the release of these, the advertising really focused on this being the first of a whole line of electric vehicles. It’s maybe hard to fully appreciate that for the price of one of these at the time you really could buy a decent enough second hand car or a decent new motorcycle or scooter. I also do remember comet advertising these later for 149 but it was seen as a joke by then. Sinclair was a genius, but he made many poor quality products that sometimes just didn’t work or if they did they would fail prematurely.
I had a lucky escape when I realised the C5 was manufactured by Hoover. I had a Hoover washing machine and an iron that were of such appallingly low quality that our local electricity board was refunding customers who had bought the identical washing machine with their branding on it. Hoover's attitude on the other hand was "tough". So, armed with the knowledge of the C5's parentage I steered well clear and saved myself a big (at the time) financial loss. Hoover went on a few years later to launch their free flights to America promotion where they then refused to actually supply the tickets and ended up in court. Needless to say, there will never be a Hoover product in my house. Anyway, this is a car channel, so I'm happy to tell you that I am currently changing the wheel cylinders on my Frogeye and will go out for a spin later.
By 1985, Hoover certainly were beginning on that downward spiral.
I've got two of these things. They're pretty awful. Seemingly designed to go under a truck as easily as possible. Bit of fun, but you need to be handy with a soldering iron to keep the shonky electrics working. Close but no cigar...
Extremely informative video. Didn’t know both Lotus and Delorean were connected to the project, history of the financial scandal that swept both of those companies with the Colin Chapman - John Delorean connection meant it would not have got underway at all , had Sinclair not looked elsewhere. An odd design, practicality not its strong point.
Thanks Martin :)
As Clive Sinclair was looking at the ruins of DeLorean, I don't think the subsequent scandal would have done anything to disrupt things in the end. The links weren't to DeLorean himself.
I can imagine riding one of these in any city traffic let alone London would be a terrifying experience!
The C5 was ahead of its time but as somebody’s said already it was “too far ahead of its time” Clive Sinclair was a genius but his mind was living in a different era, had this have been today then yes a small electric vehicle for city use would be a very good idea(Maybe not as small as the C5 though.)
Yes I can imagine riding in traffic in a city centre in between Cars that were still running on carburettors(and probably not serviced properly) belching hydrocarbons into your face, a quick way to get all manner of lung diseases and lead poisoning!
Anyhow as usual Edd, thanks for this entertaining, informative well researched video. 👍
Thanks mate :)
Sounds like the UKs version of the Segway. Overhyped, underperforming products in search of a market. Segway the company is still around in some form, but its original product certainly didn't have the urban transport impact it was hyped up to have.
Definitely worthy of the channel and well described as usual but everyone knows it's the Segway that's going to revolutionise personal transportation. Any day now....
Thanks mate, I just wish the viewing figures agreed!
@@TwinCam Was discussing that with some other small RUclips channels recently. They just don't promote anything that is small, niche content, not likely to make them money. Here's a good example of an interesting rebuild of an AC 2 litre that deserves more exposure: @ac2litre Unless you do very targeted searches people just don't find you. You're doing well, keep it up! Your presentation and material is far more professional than a lot of the big channels out there. And with mainly UK based cars and content it'll always be a struggle against the big, dumb US based channels. There are many I enjoy but you can only see someone shove an LS into something so many times before it gets a bit boring!
No license or tax is a big deal. If the electric worked it would be worth it. I put up with a slow tiny scooter because it didn't require a motorcycle license.
Still looks quite modern. I'm sure Sinclair years later sold electrical bike package for cycling.
Didn't the Busicom LE-120A “HANDY” pre date the Sinclair ?
By a year, but the Sinclair was one-quarter the price and was better distributed. 380 vs. 80 1972 quids.
Oh yes...I recall the late 1950's and early 1960's when the milk was delivered via an electric milk cart by the "Milk Man", back in the UK.
One of the more accurate videos about the c5s history, but it was never meant to be a car, it was always the first of the lineup of cars, the next being the c10 and c15 which would be full on electric cars, even pictured in this video. The design is as simple as it can be. It's not a luxury product and wasn't meant to be. It cost the same as two bmx's in 85. If it had been marketed less seriously and more as a rich kids toy it may have had more success, proven by many of them being sold abroad as gold buggies. The marketing was the real disaster with a poor launch where many were stolen from Alexandra palace. Ultimately with today's battery technology and roads it makes more sense, but really the electric scooter is now the answer.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
I ride a bike and my sister was a champion cyclist so she explained to me how to set up the riding position, particularly the fact that your leg has to be almost (not completely) straight at the bottom of the pedal rotation otherwise you get severe knee pain from riding and tire easily. Apart from all the other poorly researched things that are wrong with this fascinating thing, the pedal position is completely wrong. No wonder you got tired riding it and if you rode it for any length of time your knees would be killing you. With modern batteries and a change of ride height it would probably be OK but then again, just get an electric bike. I think it's an idea way ahead of it's time.
Oh wow - unfortunately the idea was too revolutionary - have seen Sir Clive Sinclair driving around on one of these a long time ago.. - Does any one still remember BBC micro & ZX - sad we lost all this momentum...
"knew what they were doing" , this is not a good advert for anyone involved. looks like a toy , sounds like a toy, will definitely make people laugh AT you like you in a toy.
Looks like a recumbent bike with a plastic body. Which could be an interesting experiment given modern e-bike technology. I would be interested in owning one for modification purposes.
I believe the C5 modification circle is very healthy.
@@TwinCam no doubt. Unfortunately in Australia I would be amazed if that community actually exists.
I own a City-el which came out in the 1980's which I think is a better vehicle, similar concept.
I was 7-8 years old when these came out and I WANTED ONE SO BADLY
I remember seeing these wobbling around the streets of Cambridge on release. How we laughed!
Excellent video - thanks! I’d forgotten that Ogle had been involved in the design - kind of makes sense, it’s got a little bit of Bond Bug about the profile.
Thanks Simon :)
If you go yo Merthyr you can see the story in the town museum along with the hoover free air ticket fiasco.
Very glad this didn’t become successful.
я не пойму, У него жесткая подвеска, без амортизаторов вовсе?
the placement of the handlebars must result in some dad jokes
What it needed was lithium ion batteries.
If only they existed in 1985!
@@TwinCam still got the height issue though.
@@paultasker7788 Absolutely.
I love that little trike since I first saw one and I still believe had Sir Clive put the steering in a traditional position it would have done better, that steering under your leg nonsense is silly, like designed by an engineer and sent straight to production without any ergonomic study.
the QL looks good as well, and those little "8 track" drives were its downfall.
Future tech
It would lock stock disappear down an average uk pothole. More an adventure sport
Brilliant video Ed 👍
Thanks mate :)
They tried again a year later in Japan. Japan built one. Solar powered. Sanyo Armorton Car.
Imagine trying to get up Pendle hill on that lol.
So....... if somebody bought a Reliant Robin for their family transport, does that mean they didn't love their family ??????? With your hands/arms down so low to steer, just think if you hit a curb, wall or a car, your neck would go right into the front "Fairing." OUCH
I don't think I said that. I said that someone would buy a Robin because they needed a proper car rather than a motorcycle, thanks to them having a family.
I was joking --- about 5 weeks ago I saw the "Rolling a Reliant Robin | Top Gear | BBC"
It was joy to watch, I think the show modified the car to roll easer.@@TwinCam
Ed have you ever do a vid on a Peel P50???@@TwinCam
@@jetsons101 Apologies mate, text is harder to identify! :)
Ed, you have nothing to apologies for.......
Have a great day...........@@TwinCam
So glad these things never got south of the Equator.
To be fair, they never made it south of Portsmouth!
@@TwinCam Oh I don't know, they might have sold a couple on the Isle of Wight. ;-)
Or in Devon!
Question : How tall is the narrator/rider?
5' 9" in black and white.
175 cm in Roman Catholic.
@@TwinCam That's helpful, thank you.
It's funny, the C5 gets LOTS of love and I'm included in being drawn in enough to watch your and several other videos on it. One of the video makers took off the shell however. Nothing impressive at all below the skin.
Thanks again.
@@TwinCam I'm 188cm, and I remember sitting in a C5 when Comet was selling it, and my knees where almost touching my face in the thing. LOL
Yet another authoritative and knowledgeable video much enjoyed. I am old enough to remember the hype around the C5 launch and the huge belly laughs at its uselessness, danger and total impracticality, other than as an expensive possible heath aid as one had to expend considerable effort in peddling it, other than going down hill when the brakes also presented a danger! It was sad that a man of such great creativity could be so swept along by hubris to bring it to fruition and his total business demise. Thanks as ever, Ed!
Rob
Thanks as always Rob :)
Anyone could make a modern Sinclair C5 with a 3D printer.
I'm not sure it would have the structural integrity from being printed?
I'm the Barrie Wills, former managing director of Sinclair Vehicles, mentioned in that dreadful critique of the C5. The narrator has clearly not done his homework as there are too many errors in his narrative to list! The C5 was a failure because it was ill-conceived and vulnerable in traffic. It was well engineered, well built, and the components were of excellent quality and manufactured by more than competent suppliers. No sour grapes - only despair that such tripe is out there on the internet.
Hi Barrie, lovely to have you here. I notice from your comment that we’re actually in agreement over the reasons for the C5’s immediate failure, which makes your clear distaste rather confusing.
The centre of your critique appears to be those issues open to interpretation - namely design and quality. I cannot concede that the C5 was remotely appropriate for purpose in that regard, but that’s okay. I did not have a stake in its success like you did, so I’m afraid I cannot forsake my experience or principles of what I see no matter how much you describe them as ‘tripe’. If you’d like to correct a point of fact rather than opinion, then I’d welcome that. Otherwise, I cannot understand the point of your comment here, which I notice you have liked yourself.
The Sinclair C5 was made for kids.
The adults in the marketing material, and the whole launch campaign, say different. Very different.
You shouldn’t be peddling. That’s not how it works.
Presumably the electric drive on the test vehicle is broken.
You need to listen to the video.