Thanks for this episode. I'd never knew there was a confusion over the identity of Long Liz. The Jack Ripper saga is a fascinating one, this adds to it.
I'm loving your channel mate!, I love history, especially the Victorian era and the jack the ripper murders. I've seen all your documentaries also. Please keep the content coming!
Thank you for your latest RUclips video . The myth and the total horror of Jack the Ripper never seems to end . The more research seems to lead to so many twist and turns in the story . Always look forward to your next thought provoking videos. I have said it before and say it again that you should have a much wider audience as interest in Jack the Ripper never really seems to decrease and it is so well known over the English speaking world and beyond.
I remember hearing about Mrs Malcolm from the inquest, she made for an hilarious side show. Like a modern day instagram attention seeker, giving as much personal info as she could, but she didn't know right now but she could tell you to- morrow... Even with the identification ha. But she gave the inquest a colourful addition for sure
It is indeed a very interesting, and quite spectacular, story Mr. Jones. Thank you. I’d say the most tempting explanation would be that Liz Stride somehow used her likeness to Liz Watts/Stokes in order to impersonate Mary Malcolm’s sister. Stride was somewhat of an con artist at the time, posing as a victim of the Princess Alice accident in which her alleged husband and children were supposed to have died. That coincides with Watts/Stokes second husband who actually was in an boating accident that led to his demise. Watts/Stokes had been a domestic servant, and so had Stride been in her earlier life. Watts/Stokes had been helped by a policeman, while Stride had dated a policeman. The fact that Malcolm mentioned that her sister was supposed to have ran a coffee shop in Poplar, which Stride did do together with her by then dead husband John Stride, simply can’t be a coincidence. The reason why Malcolm got the man’s name wrong could easily have been that Stride simply lied about that detail, partly because John Stride didn’t fit her general narrative as a survivor of the Queen Anne and partly because Stride didn’t want Malcolm to be able to check her story. I doubt Stride had an elaborate plan to con Mary Malcolm, but rather that Malcolm at some point mistook Stride for being her sister and Stride simply ran with it, seeing an opportunity of financial gain. As far as I know Malcolm hadn’t seen her sister in years when she presumably met Stride. Even though Liz Stride had lived in London for 22 years by the time of her death, she was originally Swedish and one would have imagined that she had fairly obvious Swedish accent. How come Malcolm didn’t spot this? Well, it is known that Stride learned both English and Yiddish, so in theory it’s possible that she was quite talented in picking up languages. It’s also known that she probably did have a stutter that may have concealed her slight accent even further.
I like the argument. Assuming (always dangerous in anything ripper related but what the hell) she was duped I wonder why she never returned to the inquest to explain herself. The only thing that comes to mind is that she felt embarassed. As usual with anything ripper related every possible answer comes with additional questions.
I can see this happening. Perhaps there was just enough of a resemblance that Mary called out to her "sister" and since Stride had the same first name she responded, and went with it when she realized she could get something out of it.
Now I'm confused . What if Mary Malcolm is telling the truth? Didn't many people in the East end give false names ? If true ,it could have taken the investigation into a totally deferent Direction... Thanks Richard ,I always enjoy your new videos
@@keepitsimple4629 Think she was lying? One of those people who make up garbage just to inject themselves into something that is currently happening, famous or infamous?
@@keepitsimple4629 nonsense is right, what happened was whilst in bed Mary Malcolm's husband was feeling a bit frisky and began to try it on while she was sleeping and when she woke up he flatly denied it..hence the idea of her premonition.
@@keepitsimple4629 That's the first conclusion I came too , But the police were flooded with crazy people. There must have been some truth to what she was saying otherwise she wouldn't have been called to the inquest . Also if I heard correctly her sister stated that she couldn't positively Identify if it was her or not. You must ask yourself why didn't anyone produce her if she was still alive. I personally don't believe it was her sister, but it's just one more piece of the murders with loose ends ..
@@leslierock5005 my thought too! He was probably trying to see how deep asleep she was. As in "Can I get...(umm) far enough without asking her?? Only one way to find out" Next thought and maybe out loud "Dammit, now she thinks I'm a ghost!! Well, ghost have needs too. But it can get in line!!
Poor Elizabeth Stokes, being forced into asylums again and again because her freedom was an inconvenience. And to have her children taken away like that! I wonder what happened to them. At least she seems to have ended up okay (albeit with a very strange sister)
ETA oh dear it is a new novella entry. Novella length, no chapter headings but I'm told the algie likes it, particularly if I read or share multiple posts. Richard, I've been a Ripper aficionado for many many years, probably longer than your life span, so I'm amazed and suitably impressed you've found such a genuinely mysterious set of claims and details...and yet I've never heard of this lady,or of the twin identities. I've been subbed for a while but haven't been clicking, and I now regret that. It was your channel's name that put me off. I thought if I'd watched one walking tour I'd seen all there was to offer. I did watjch computer reconstructions on line, clever things that showed the viewers a witness's eyes effect. I'm now looking forward to my weekend- I have something really enjoyable to do. I won't tell anyone, they'd just pretend to feel sorry for me, but I'm greatly looking forward to my binge of your channel's content! I may just smile mysteriously and say, oh no, TMI....but I'm expecting a wonderful time, he's really good at what he does " I'd actually like to change my voice mail. They should start offering in the pre-recorded instructions "The subscriber apologises but is deep in a YT series.,.this viewer expects to finish about (time).. If it's urgent phone Triple zero*. If not urgent please phone again at 3:10 am, or else wait to approximately 2pm when the subscriber to this service expects to wake " Officials speak all the time about the desirability of certain products or examinations. Then if your test comes back shreeking "Don't sign a contract, knock back $18 an hour!! Well i would but is it you, little yellow man for Clive Palmer?? *Triple zero is the Australian Emergency Services number--"Police, Fire. Or Ambulance." ETA I actually don't hugely regret not doing an ep by so ep there's because now I have a heap of back issues in which to indulge. However even if I've seen a vid before, I have a shonky memory so it's as if the first time I've seen it. Richard I really like your channel. I'm going to have a weekend binge, and I'm sooo looking forward to it. Thank you for your exacting research, and the quality of your presentations.
For nearly two decades I've researched this subject(historical fiction novel coming) and I'm of the opinion that Elizabeth Stride was not a Ripper victim. I think Jack would have been surprised by the news of her murder. I think he was stalking Catherine Eddowes at the time remember, the cop found her in Mitre Square at 1:45 in the morning. He didn't see anyone there on his previous round...yet we have two witnesses saying they saw her with a man about a half hour before the murder. It would be easy for both Catherine and Jack to be together and stay out of sight. My point...he wouldn't have had time to kill both women. I think his time did run out when the cop returned, forcing him to stuff right and left pockets with his prized girly parts and quickly leaving the scene literally with a mess on his hands...which is evident on the shity and blood stained rag he left behind.
Forget Hallie Robenhold's idea that Katherine Eddowes had laid there to rest. The Pc had patrolled the square at 1.15 and 1,30... The man who took her into the square wore a red neckercheif, and was seen at 1.35 by Lewende
I also think he liked the "date" experience...this is suggestive in all his victims except Mary Ann Nichols, which I believe he killed outright with no "romancing". Also, I think if Polly was his first it would make sense that it happened so late in the morning...almost sunrise. He probably tried all night and possibly nights before that. Anyway...love to hear anyone's thoughts.
That's a good point, I myself don't believe Elizabeth Stride was not a Ripper victim . For me it falls apart with Israel Schwartz statements to the Police . He said the man pulled her into the street or pushed her into the ally. The first Doctor on the scene testified along with Dr Phillips and both said she was dragged by her scarf into the yard and that the scarf was cut when he cut her throat . I think the police wanted to believe Kosminski was the the Murderer because if he wasn't there whole case falls apart
@@sciencefirst7880 hi, Elizabeth stride was killed between 12:45 and 01:00 am..it takes about 15 minutes to walk to mitre square,he would have had enough time to kill both women.
If she truly believe it, I wonder if what Mary actually experienced was sleep paralysis? The feeling of pressure on her chest while in bed is a classic sign.
Good video,so who would you believe,the partner of Elizabeth stride Michael kidney who cohabited with Liz and positively identified her at the mortuary or a looney like Mary Malcolm,the police can be a bit weird indeed.
Sounds like poor Elizabeth Watts wasn’t the only drama queen in the family! 😅 Not even the worst of them from the sound of it! 👸 👸 Some people just like the attention. This was interesting even over a century later! Mary Malcomb would probably be proud to hear we’re talking about her, (although maybe not her poor husband) Thanks for a lighthearted diversion! I enjoy hearing about the people of the time and almost as much as speculating about the murders.
Homegirl got her 15 minutes. Got all gussied up for interviews. I’m sure ran her mouth in the pubs for a mean streak too. She had a supernatural tale “connecting” her to the Ripper murders. Many may have laughed but probably just as many believed her.
Thanks for this episode. I'd never knew there was a confusion over the identity of Long Liz. The Jack Ripper saga is a fascinating one, this adds to it.
Pleased you enjoyed it, Brendon.
And another weird story surrounding Strides death. Great video!
I'm loving your channel mate!, I love history, especially the Victorian era and the jack the ripper murders.
I've seen all your documentaries also.
Please keep the content coming!
Glad you like them!
Found this channel last night, great stuff
It is a fabulous channel Toast. Enjoy.🥂
Thank you. Welcome aboard.
Thank you, Kelly, very kind of you.
Thank you for your latest RUclips video .
The myth and the total horror of Jack the Ripper never seems to end .
The more research seems to lead to so many twist and turns in the story .
Always look forward to your next thought provoking videos.
I have said it before and say it again that you should have a much wider audience as interest in Jack the Ripper never really seems to decrease and it is so well known over the English speaking world and beyond.
Glad you enjoyed it
I remember hearing about Mrs Malcolm from the inquest, she made for an hilarious side show. Like a modern day instagram attention seeker, giving as much personal info as she could, but she didn't know right now but she could tell you to- morrow... Even with the identification ha. But she gave the inquest a colourful addition for sure
Bloody good mini-doc Richard!
Thank you.
It is indeed a very interesting, and quite spectacular, story Mr. Jones. Thank you.
I’d say the most tempting explanation would be that Liz Stride somehow used her likeness to Liz Watts/Stokes in order to impersonate Mary Malcolm’s sister. Stride was somewhat of an con artist at the time, posing as a victim of the Princess Alice accident in which her alleged husband and children were supposed to have died. That coincides with Watts/Stokes second husband who actually was in an boating accident that led to his demise. Watts/Stokes had been a domestic servant, and so had Stride been in her earlier life. Watts/Stokes had been helped by a policeman, while Stride had dated a policeman. The fact that Malcolm mentioned that her sister was supposed to have ran a coffee shop in Poplar, which Stride did do together with her by then dead husband John Stride, simply can’t be a coincidence. The reason why Malcolm got the man’s name wrong could easily have been that Stride simply lied about that detail, partly because John Stride didn’t fit her general narrative as a survivor of the Queen Anne and partly because Stride didn’t want Malcolm to be able to check her story.
I doubt Stride had an elaborate plan to con Mary Malcolm, but rather that Malcolm at some point mistook Stride for being her sister and Stride simply ran with it, seeing an opportunity of financial gain. As far as I know Malcolm hadn’t seen her sister in years when she presumably met Stride.
Even though Liz Stride had lived in London for 22 years by the time of her death, she was originally Swedish and one would have imagined that she had fairly obvious Swedish accent. How come Malcolm didn’t spot this? Well, it is known that Stride learned both English and Yiddish, so in theory it’s possible that she was quite talented in picking up languages. It’s also known that she probably did have a stutter that may have concealed her slight accent even further.
I like the argument. Assuming (always dangerous in anything ripper related but what the hell) she was duped I wonder why she never returned to the inquest to explain herself. The only thing that comes to mind is that she felt embarassed. As usual with anything ripper related every possible answer comes with additional questions.
I can see this happening. Perhaps there was just enough of a resemblance that Mary called out to her "sister" and since Stride had the same first name she responded, and went with it when she realized she could get something out of it.
I know Walcott Street in Bath. It's quite an atmospheric street, with an interesting mortuary chapel.
Love the way you tell us about history you make it so interesting
Glad you enjoy it!
Now I'm confused . What if Mary Malcolm is telling the truth? Didn't many people in the East end give false names ? If true ,it could have taken the investigation into a totally deferent Direction... Thanks Richard ,I always enjoy your new videos
Mary Malcolm might've thought she was telling the truth, but it was all nonsense.
@@keepitsimple4629 Think she was lying? One of those people who make up garbage just to inject themselves into something that is currently happening, famous or infamous?
@@keepitsimple4629 nonsense is right, what happened was whilst in bed Mary Malcolm's husband was feeling a bit frisky and began to try it on while she was sleeping and when she woke up he flatly denied it..hence the idea of her premonition.
@@keepitsimple4629 That's the first conclusion I came too , But the police were flooded with crazy people. There must have been some truth to what she was saying otherwise she wouldn't have been called to the inquest . Also if I heard correctly her sister stated that she couldn't positively Identify if it was her or not. You must ask yourself why didn't anyone produce her if she was still alive. I personally don't believe it was her sister, but it's just one more piece of the murders with loose ends ..
@@leslierock5005 my thought too! He was probably trying to see how deep asleep she was. As in "Can I get...(umm) far enough without asking her?? Only one way to find out" Next thought and maybe out loud "Dammit, now she thinks I'm a ghost!! Well, ghost have needs too. But it can get in line!!
Poor Elizabeth Stokes, being forced into asylums again and again because her freedom was an inconvenience. And to have her children taken away like that! I wonder what happened to them. At least she seems to have ended up okay (albeit with a very strange sister)
Great work, Richard. I always look forward to your videos.
Many thanks!
I love your videos...always on point!
I appreciate that!
Thanks again Richard for this video, but if I remember well she was called "Long Liz Stride" :)
Thank you Richard for another great interesting video
Very welcome. Mathew.
Thank you Richard for yet a great video, i hope you are keeping well.
Very well, thank you, Linda. Pleased you liked the video. Hope all is well with you.
@@JackTheRipperTours yes thank you
Another insightful look at the ripper case, Rich. This lady reminds me of one of my aunties - say no more 😉
Thank you, David.
ETA oh dear it is a new novella entry. Novella length, no chapter headings but I'm told the algie likes it, particularly if I read or share multiple posts. Richard, I've been a Ripper aficionado for many many years, probably longer than your life span, so I'm amazed and suitably impressed you've found such a genuinely mysterious set of claims and details...and yet I've never heard of this lady,or of the twin identities.
I've been subbed for a while but haven't been clicking, and I now regret that. It was your channel's name that put me off. I thought if I'd watched one walking tour I'd seen all there was to offer. I did watjch computer reconstructions on line, clever things that showed the viewers a witness's eyes effect.
I'm now looking forward to my weekend- I have something really enjoyable to do. I won't tell anyone, they'd just pretend to feel sorry for me, but I'm greatly looking forward to my binge of your channel's content! I may just smile mysteriously and say, oh no, TMI....but I'm expecting a wonderful time, he's really good at what he does "
I'd actually like to change my voice mail. They should start offering in the pre-recorded instructions "The subscriber apologises but is deep in a YT series.,.this viewer expects to finish about (time).. If it's urgent phone Triple zero*. If not urgent please phone again at 3:10 am, or else wait to approximately 2pm when the subscriber to this service expects to wake "
Officials speak all the time about the desirability of certain products or examinations. Then if your test comes back shreeking "Don't sign a contract, knock back $18 an hour!! Well i would but is it you, little yellow man for Clive Palmer??
*Triple zero is the Australian Emergency Services number--"Police, Fire. Or Ambulance."
ETA I actually don't hugely regret not doing an ep by so ep there's because now I have a heap of back issues in which to indulge. However even if I've seen a vid before, I have a shonky memory so it's as if the first time I've seen it.
Richard I really like your channel. I'm going to have a weekend binge, and I'm sooo looking forward to it.
Thank you for your exacting research, and the quality of your presentations.
For nearly two decades I've researched this subject(historical fiction novel coming) and I'm of the opinion that Elizabeth Stride was not a Ripper victim. I think Jack would have been surprised by the news of her murder. I think he was stalking Catherine Eddowes at the time remember, the cop found her in Mitre Square at 1:45 in the morning. He didn't see anyone there on his previous round...yet we have two witnesses saying they saw her with a man about a half hour before the murder. It would be easy for both Catherine and Jack to be together and stay out of sight. My point...he wouldn't have had time to kill both women. I think his time did run out when the cop returned, forcing him to stuff right and left pockets with his prized girly parts and quickly leaving the scene literally with a mess on his hands...which is evident on the shity and blood stained rag he left behind.
Who saw Kathy Eddowes half hour before Watkins found her?
Forget Hallie Robenhold's idea that Katherine Eddowes had laid there to rest. The Pc had patrolled the square at 1.15 and 1,30... The man who took her into the square wore a red neckercheif, and was seen at 1.35 by Lewende
I also think he liked the "date" experience...this is suggestive in all his victims except Mary Ann Nichols, which I believe he killed outright with no "romancing". Also, I think if Polly was his first it would make sense that it happened so late in the morning...almost sunrise. He probably tried all night and possibly nights before that.
Anyway...love to hear anyone's thoughts.
That's a good point, I myself don't believe Elizabeth Stride was not a Ripper victim . For me it falls apart with Israel Schwartz statements to the Police . He said the man pulled her into the street or pushed her into the ally. The first Doctor on the scene testified along with Dr Phillips and both said she was dragged by her scarf into the yard and that the scarf was cut when he cut her throat . I think the police wanted to believe Kosminski was the the Murderer because if he wasn't there whole case falls apart
@@sciencefirst7880 hi, Elizabeth stride was killed between 12:45 and 01:00 am..it takes about 15 minutes to walk to mitre square,he would have had enough time to kill both women.
Good facts and points. I enjoy viewing all of your splendid videos!
If she truly believe it, I wonder if what Mary actually experienced was sleep paralysis? The feeling of pressure on her chest while in bed is a classic sign.
Good video,so who would you believe,the partner of Elizabeth stride Michael kidney who cohabited with Liz and positively identified her at the mortuary or a looney like Mary Malcolm,the police can be a bit weird indeed.
Brilliant. Well read.
The two feuding sisters would have made for fantastic guests on the thankfully cancelled Jeremy Kyle Show.
Always interesting.
Thank you, Natalie.
Proves how many lives are touched by a simple or diabolical act. How many lies and truths are uncovered.
Sounds like poor Elizabeth Watts wasn’t the only drama queen in the family! 😅 Not even the worst of them from the sound of it! 👸 👸 Some people just like the attention.
This was interesting even over a century later! Mary Malcomb would probably be proud to hear we’re talking about her, (although maybe not her poor husband) Thanks for a lighthearted diversion! I enjoy hearing about the people of the time and almost as much as speculating about the murders.
Like another commentator, I hadn't heard this side of the saga before. With reality like this, who needs 'Eastenders'?
Homegirl got her 15 minutes. Got all gussied up for interviews. I’m sure ran her mouth in the pubs for a mean streak too. She had a supernatural tale “connecting” her to the Ripper murders. Many may have laughed but probably just as many believed her.
It appears that there was as many 'strange' people about in Victorian times as there are today.. !
These things never change
@@johnreed8336 definitely true