John Shelby Spong is absolutely right. May the day finally come when our spokespeople as believers are not loud, ignorant television preachers, but thoughtful, intellectual guides to the faith. Life is what this is about and we as a church should invite discourse and dialogue without being threatened. Bishop Spong is a hero of the faith.
Recently, I purchased Bishop Spong's book, "Why Christianity Must Change or Die". It is absolutely powerful. Bishop Spong challenges those who proclaim the Christian faith to actually think, rather than just believe. There is always room for faith, but logic has its place as well. Bishop Spong is a champion for true reform and change in the Body of Christ. It is ABSOLUTELY necessary.
as an atheist, i can relate to this religious person. He comes across as honest. The basic message of Jesus was to love oneanother, irrespective of cultural differences. I dont believe Jesus was the son of god, but see him more as a philosopher.
I have been an atheist ever since my mid teen years, and the talks Bishop Spong truly make rational sense to me. I really do admire the way he preaches.
@Chiyo1967 it is funny that they still reference the Q-source when there is no archeological evidence for it. We have copies of the texts back to 100 AD that we know are already copies. There isn't sufficient time to have a "cultural adaptation" of the message when there were still people alive that had heard the original and there is no record of contradiction. Such similarities as are found are common in oral tradition cultures, especially where rabbis taught.
@SkiesVibrant A Christian is a follower of Christ. Since when did he say that Jesus did not rise from the dead? The foundation of Christian faith is the experience of God through the holy spirit and the life of Jesus depicted by the gospels. Do you have a point?
@Magnulus76 I can agree that Jesus Christ took on 'religious' leaders who were more interested in their own piety than pleasing God. It seems that Spong fits the 'religious' perfectly. Too bad he isn't convinced of the deity of Christ. As I said earlier, Spong belongs to a fan club instead of Jesus. You are entitled to your opinion. You know the truth, God wrote it on your heart. Perhaps you should attend to it. Spong needs a Damascus moment before it is too late. I pray for him.
Moral and living upright by "go and sin no more" as Jesus said to those He forgave, comes AFTER a person accepts Christ into their life and prays to Him and God to have grace, guidance and power to walk this life well and lead others to Christ also.
Thank you John Shelby for having the courage to grow up spritually and speak the truth. We have been brainwashed and control by religious dogma for too long.
First experience...I wash my hands, turn off the faucet, and dry my hands...all of a sudden the faucet turns on by itself...not gently but turns on full pressure. Second experience happen to my brother...he was talking on the phone late with his door locked and lights on and music on. All of sudden light switch turns off and music on computer clicked off...no electrical problem... 3rd time was when my brother and i witnessed a tall dark figure walking across our glass screen door and disappear.
I know you can try to explain those things and you're right many have tried. I've been speaking to my brother who lives 1600 miles from me and he himself have claimed he followed a spirit as well at his work and it looked at him, jumped up and disappeared. About 80% of people who worked at my brothers job have experienced some form of paranormal activity at the job site. Even having some share of my experiences I have hard time believing my brother ...So I don't blame you for doubting.
@Chiyo1967 You are missing the point. The two passages don't stand in opposition but rather compliment each other. Together they show the ground we are to follow. You are right in that we on our own cannot "be perfect" but in being merciful we open ourselves to God to be made perfect. There are hundreds of passages that have similar compliments. [A different translation would be the same passage "read" differently not different passages.]
@SkiesVibrant you know you are doing Gods will when people hate you, mock you, despise you, because you speak the truth. When will you learn the unconditional love of God?
Look, you're not the first person I've chatted with concerning God's Word being the Truth. I didn't expect to change your mind; not my intention. Merely to go before the Throne oneday and say I proclaimed your Word dear Lord.
@allthesealsareopen He told the Parable of the Good Samaritan. The Good Samaritan was a Pagan, not a Christian or a Jew. That was the message of the story that thy neighbor IS everyone.
@masterkeep - Good for your opinion, masterkeep, mine differs. Both gospel writers took the skeleton of the story from the Q-source and adapted or translated it with their audience and personal agenda in mind. At least, that's the way I'd learned it in seminary and it makes sense to me. The call for "perfection", is tragic, since Jesus says; "...ONLY GOD IS GOOD."
"Merely to go before the Throne oneday and say I proclaimed your Word dear Lord" And the Lord will ask you 'why did you call a fellow Chrisitan, Spong, an anti-christ?'
"Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." - John 8:43-44 Guess Jesus wasn't overly loving that day. Or is it loving to tell the truth?
I disagree with his teachings about Jesus' resurrection (or lack of one, in his case), but he's right in this video. When the world looks as us disciples, they're not looking for our theology... they're looking for our love.
The call of Jesus Christ is to hear His Word and put it into practice, and to reject the meanderings of John Shelby Spong. We are not called to be right, but to be loving, doesn't Spong think he is right?
@SkiesVibrant I don't think Spong thinks Jesus is just another man: I've watched several of his lectures and there and Spong shows a great reverence for him. He may not embrace who your Jesus is -- Paul's jesus, the sacrificed lamb -- but I think Paul's time defining Christianity is over.
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven. “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ (Matthew 10:33-36)
@Chiyo1967 If you read Matthew 5 and Luke 6 you realize they are different occasions with similar messages not different translations. We are to be transformed to be like our Father. This can only be done by God's power in our lives, not some "self actualization" or some other self thing.
@mjm2662643 - The other translation, the one used in Luke says; "be ye merciful, as your father in heaven is merciful. I prefer that translation. It makes much more sense. After all, being fallible, imperfect and finite - how could a human being even know what "perfect" is? Let alone be perfect!
How about use the word compassionate over merciful? I think that fits how God views us. Being merciful sounds a little bit like it was lost in translation. That word means we are begging for someone not to beat us.
This is a wonderful antidote for some of the other films I was just watching on RUclips of different Christians and people of other faiths. This gives me hope.
CSoul, I would assume that you are referencing Matt. 5:48. If you would rewind a few verses, you would get the entire understanding of that 48th verse. Jesus was talking about loving all men, not just the ones that are in agreement with you. Jesus asked, "do not even the pagans do that?" When he said be "perfect", he was really saying, be fair or be unbiased, even as our heavenly father is. That would tie into "our righteousness surpassing the Pharisees", it's doesn't come by the law.
Yes Jesus said false prophets would come. So why do all the "special people" think he was referring to 2000yrs later? He said it to people that were living at the time. Otherwise, why can't Paul be looked at as such? He fits the criteria of what Jesus said is a false prophet perfectly.
By castigating the 'orthodox', aren't you immediately excluding them from what it means to be "Christian" - if you are indeed trying to include everyone under that banner?
@goofy6622 The word catholic does mean universal; however, it is defined to then mean those that proclaimed that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Jesus pointed out "doctrinal" issues between pharisees and saducees. Jesus was full of grace AND truth. The truth is what got Him crucified after several attempts at stoning. [That was God's plan all along but still...] If Jesus only said love He would never had been killed.
Yes! When you quote the Truth of the Word of God, detractors are plentiful. Jesus warned of them. In Scripture, Satan is described as an angel of light; beholden to look at. Friend - I only give you the Truth of the Word of God, the Holy Bible. Your free will, a gift from God, is to decide if it's for you - or not.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. If you live in willful, constant, rebellious sin against God, you are not ALL YOU CAN BE, you are lost and going to Hell. Repent & live.
@MegaDudu999 You are right. Hands down....I agree. I just don't understand and don't want anything to do with it. I don't hate them or nothing like that..they just disgust me unless they are hot women.
@abominableangel Yep, it's okay to judge and the scripture tells us that anyone who teaches another gospel should be ACCURSED. Paul even tells us not to eat with these people unless they repent. Don't even bother with Mattew 7. Anyone who has read the entire chapter knows what the entirety says. Oh yes, I remember now. It says don't throw your pearls before swine.
You're being very modest about what your Christian faith claims for itself - that nobody gets to heaven but through Jesus Christ's forgiveness. You can talk all you want about being inclusive, but anyone who doesn't share that core belief of Christianity is going straight to hell when they die, according to what the majority of Christians believe. I have a Hindu friend, on the other hand, who believes I'm going to heaven just because I'm a decent person. THAT'S a deeply kind, moral belief.
@SkiesVibrant You don't even quote your supposed master correctly, in fact John has Jesus say "I am the way the turth and the *life*" not "light" as you incorrectly stated. If you are going to use Scripture as a weapon, at least get it right. By the way, if Jesus really said that and all the other fantastic things John quotes him saying, then why do you think John is the only one to mention it? Wouldn't sayings like "I and the father are one" be certainly included by every gospel writer?
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6) Dear John S. Spong, Jesus was not a universalist.
Oh, brother. Called us to be perfect, just like God? There's an unattainable goal, destined to make the person who attempts it feel like a failure and evil sinner - just like this brand of Christianity wants, so that you can only feel worthy by following their version of Christianity, i.e. following their church leaders. It's all about love of power and corruption, and why Spong (who believes in empowering the individual) is such anathema to them.
No, I'm saying asking people to be what they can't possibly be has always been the church's way of controlling their flock. First they tear them down, then they insist such unworthiness can only be redeemed through forgiveness with the church as necessary go-between. The fact that it's in the bible means nothing, so are passages that are clearly pro-slavery and hateful toward women - it's all open to interpretation and even the most devout picks and chooses, whether they admit it or not.
@WileNot Matthew 25:31-46 contradicts what you said about good works. The "sheep" aren't inheriting the kingdom because they believed, they are getting it because they did good works. The gospels were not written by Jesus but by people who didn't even know Jesus ~80 AD, and Paul who wrote the epistles and put faith above works, didn't "meet" Jesus until after Jesus' death. You seem to put more stock in Paul than you do in Jesus whereas Bishop Spong seems to be trying to spread the love of Jesus.
But Jesus certainly would've been bothered by that. He doesn't want anyone to perish. You call yourself a Christian, Costescu? Then don't forget the Christ of Christianity. Just remember the cross, and Who died on it.
the shame of it is, those who believe him will reap the same. I'm not bothered by this pagan going to hell, I am bothered that others will join him there.
@leptismagna10 Well sir, religion and human rights are two different things. I believe gays should have rights they shouldn't be discriminated against. But, I don't think they should have the right to marry.
Your comment is the reason for Spong. Too much irrationality in Christianity. Most people stopped believing in the devil during the Enlightenment. Spong is trying to make religion compatible w/ 21st Century knowledge.
If such a thing were true then God would be a devil. Giving finite and mortal beings the ability to decide their eternal destinies is unfair. We can't possibly understand the full consequences of our actions.
I love this guy, although I disagree with him about a few things.But you can't help being ''religious'' with a small ''r'' if you have any kind of belief system about G-d, have a ''G-d theory'' as someone eloquently put it. PEACE
@smellincoffee There is only one Jesus who transformed the destiny of man. Spong does not believe in the Christian God, so he is not a Christian. He is a member of a fan club. If he is happy with that, then that is his willing choice. I will pray for him. Actually if Spong is really listening to Jesus, then perhaps he should heed the words of Jesus. " I am the way, the truth, and the light, no man comes to Father except by me" & "I & the Father are One". Paul didn't say that Jesus did.
Bible prophecy fullfilled! Jesus said if you go around quoting me and The Word, you will be criticised. You are entrinched in your beliefs, as well as me ... so you do not pursuade - nor I. Doesn't matter. Truth does not change on your or my belief systems. Why was Jesus killed? He said alot of unpopular Truth.
at last a normal christian, well not normal he,s still deluded but, seems like a nice guy. pity all christians aren,t like him they,d get a little more respect. god-b-less
@illegalbrain What a terrible sin, typos..... Jesus said what He said. It's not for me, or you and anyone else to decide what the gospel writers should have said. God did that and I'm not so arrogant as to determine what the diciples and apostles said and recorded. According to Spong, it apparently doesn't matter. How many times has Spong said homosexuality isn't a sin? Scripture records it as sin throughout the Old and New Testaments. BTW Paul didn't write any of the synoptic gospels.
Jesus also calls you to open your heart and accept Him as your savior. It is your only way. This man twists the faith and those who follow this satanic doctrine will surely go to hell.
It's all just opinions. You're a non-believer, no doubt, of numerous religious texts that others around the world believe in every bit as much as you believe in the Christian bible. The same thing you said to me, they would say to you: "Our holy texts matter far more than your opinion."
Jesus spoke more about the Kingdom of Heaven approaching and was far more concerned with peoples honesty and sincerity, and very important was our treatment of those in need. All of this was based on works, and by example would be an example of Godliness. When Jesus is asked how one enters life he says to keep the commandments, then went on to tell the story of the good samaritan, which was a compassion message. Modern day Christian nuts follow Paul and all this "washed in his blood" nonsense.
@henryforshaw Do you have a point? The Great Commission given by Jesus is clear. He is the good news. My job is to protect the clarily of the life of Jesus. A person simply cannot claim to be Christian if they deny the virgin birth and the resurrection. Spong believes that neither of these Biblical principles as it applies to our faith. No resurrecton, no heaven or hell. I don't know what Bible he uses. It doesn't really matter. He still denies the foundations of Christian Faith.
What is the Bible a guide for? How to get to Heaven? That would mean life is a game where if you believe the correct things about God you 'win' and go to Heaven. But if you don't believe correctly you 'lose' and go Hell. The Christian god seems quite the sadist.
"pity all christians aren,t like him they,d get a little more respect. god-b-less" We do not need your pity. What this man speaks of in this video is why Jesus tells us why only a few will enter the KINGDOM OF GOD. These are not teachings of Jesus i tell you the truth. This man will only speak to tickle your ear. Jesus taught people to repent and turn from their sins and yes...to love love love. But in loving, He also tells us the truth even if it hurts. The devil is very crafty.
@leptismagna10 You are gay right? You don't like Christianity because it states that your lifestyle is wrong. You don't believe in God because you think..God should love you for who you are right.
may the Lord protect people's minds from this serpent and his smooth words! Seriously, i think this guy's a great candidate for being the antichrist or something! i can tell his words could so easily twist the unguarded mind into acceptance of sin....
If this is what the bible taught, then I could agree with it. The bible teaches things like discrimination, bigotry, killing those with different beliefs (even the women and children), killing gays, etc.... Maybe this guy should rewrite the bible.
If you have seen what my brother and I have seen beyond the nature of this world and any scientific explanation then you will realize that it's not only a devil that exists in the people who create within themselves or their minds, but a physical one. I've seen the spirit world and you probably have not as why you say its only people who created it. I've heard your theory before plenty of times. It makes sense but it's not the truth. I respect your honest opinion but I simply don't agree.
John Shelby Spong is absolutely right. May the day finally come when our spokespeople as believers are not loud, ignorant television preachers, but thoughtful, intellectual guides to the faith. Life is what this is about and we as a church should invite discourse and dialogue without being threatened. Bishop Spong is a hero of the faith.
Recently, I purchased Bishop Spong's book, "Why Christianity Must Change or Die".
It is absolutely powerful. Bishop Spong challenges those who proclaim the Christian faith to actually think, rather than just believe.
There is always room for faith, but logic has its place as well.
Bishop Spong is a champion for true reform and change in the Body of Christ. It is ABSOLUTELY necessary.
as an atheist, i can relate to this religious person. He comes across as honest. The basic message of Jesus was to love oneanother, irrespective of cultural differences.
I dont believe Jesus was the son of god, but see him more as a philosopher.
ANY message of love and respect deserves my respect and love.
Doesn't matter which religion or non-religion.
What a Beautiful message Bishop Spong!!
He is indeed a very courageous man. He's taken a lot of crap and he doesn't back down.
I have been an atheist ever since my mid teen years, and the talks Bishop Spong truly make rational sense to me. I really do admire the way he preaches.
amazing grace for humanity and the lovers of christ to be christ essence.
gratitude for the beautiful wisdom of love that is source and jesus!
@Chiyo1967 it is funny that they still reference the Q-source when there is no archeological evidence for it. We have copies of the texts back to 100 AD that we know are already copies. There isn't sufficient time to have a "cultural adaptation" of the message when there were still people alive that had heard the original and there is no record of contradiction. Such similarities as are found are common in oral tradition cultures, especially where rabbis taught.
@SkiesVibrant A Christian is a follower of Christ. Since when did he say that Jesus did not rise from the dead?
The foundation of Christian faith is the experience of God through the holy spirit and the life of Jesus depicted by the gospels.
Do you have a point?
I love this man's voice.
@Magnulus76 I can agree that Jesus Christ took on 'religious' leaders who were more interested in their own piety than pleasing God. It seems that Spong fits the 'religious' perfectly. Too bad he isn't convinced of the deity of Christ. As I said earlier, Spong belongs to a fan club instead of Jesus.
You are entitled to your opinion. You know the truth, God wrote it on your heart. Perhaps you should attend to it. Spong needs a Damascus moment before it is too late. I pray for him.
You are the first speaker for Jesus that actually carries the true message of the Christed one to come along in who knows how long .... Bravo to you.
Jesus calls you to be holy as your Heavenly Father is holy (Matthew 5:48)
Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23)
Very powerful!
Yes - how to inherit eternal life ... and a guide for living this life. It contains rules to keep us from destroying ourselves; among other things.
Moral and living upright by "go and sin no more" as Jesus said to those He forgave, comes AFTER a person accepts Christ into their life and prays to Him and God to have grace, guidance and power to walk this life well and lead others to Christ also.
I wish more people were aware of people like John Shelby Spong, Paul Knitter, Michael Dowd, and Karen Armstrong.
Thank you John Shelby for having the courage to grow up spritually and speak the truth. We have been brainwashed and control by religious dogma for too long.
I prey that Yahweh protects true christianity
Respect from a Muslim
First experience...I wash my hands, turn off the faucet, and dry my hands...all of a sudden the faucet turns on by itself...not gently but turns on full pressure. Second experience happen to my brother...he was talking on the phone late with his door locked and lights on and music on. All of sudden light switch turns off and music on computer clicked off...no electrical problem... 3rd time was when my brother and i witnessed a tall dark figure walking across our glass screen door and disappear.
I know you can try to explain those things and you're right many have tried. I've been speaking to my brother who lives 1600 miles from me and he himself have claimed he followed a spirit as well at his work and it looked at him, jumped up and disappeared. About 80% of people who worked at my brothers job have experienced some form of paranormal activity at the job site. Even having some share of my experiences I have hard time believing my brother ...So I don't blame you for doubting.
amazing
Amen! God is LOVE! :->
Amen!
I think that Bishop Spong is a Unitarian at heart! :)
Amen.
@Chiyo1967 You are missing the point. The two passages don't stand in opposition but rather compliment each other. Together they show the ground we are to follow. You are right in that we on our own cannot "be perfect" but in being merciful we open ourselves to God to be made perfect. There are hundreds of passages that have similar compliments. [A different translation would be the same passage "read" differently not different passages.]
@sinbien336 you are so correct, there are many Paulians and Johnians masquerading as Christians
I'm not a christian and I love this man.
So f* up that the message is so lost and highly misused for opposite goals.
@SkiesVibrant you know you are doing Gods will when people hate you, mock you, despise you, because you speak the truth. When will you learn the unconditional love of God?
That would be 4 now. I'm like a magnet to you. Feels good.
Look, you're not the first person I've chatted with concerning God's Word being the Truth. I didn't expect to change your mind; not my intention. Merely to go before the Throne oneday and say I proclaimed your Word dear Lord.
@allthesealsareopen He told the Parable of the Good Samaritan. The Good Samaritan was a Pagan, not a Christian or a Jew. That was the message of the story that thy neighbor IS everyone.
@masterkeep - Good for your opinion, masterkeep, mine differs. Both gospel writers took the skeleton of the story from the Q-source and adapted or translated it with their audience and personal agenda in mind. At least, that's the way I'd learned it in seminary and it makes sense to me. The call for "perfection", is tragic, since Jesus says; "...ONLY GOD IS GOOD."
"Merely to go before the Throne oneday and say I proclaimed your Word dear Lord"
And the Lord will ask you 'why did you call a fellow Chrisitan, Spong, an anti-christ?'
Because Spong was an anti christ!
“Everyone will hate you because of me.” (Luke 21:17) (You will be hated by all for my name’s sake.)
"Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." - John 8:43-44
Guess Jesus wasn't overly loving that day. Or is it loving to tell the truth?
I disagree with his teachings about Jesus' resurrection (or lack of one, in his case), but he's right in this video. When the world looks as us disciples, they're not looking for our theology... they're looking for our love.
The call of Jesus Christ is to hear His Word and put it into practice, and to reject the meanderings of John Shelby Spong.
We are not called to be right, but to be loving, doesn't Spong think he is right?
@masterkeep - Thanks for your opinion. Mine differs.
@gatorhighlights4 what does Trolling mean?
@SkiesVibrant I don't think Spong thinks Jesus is just another man: I've watched several of his lectures and there and Spong shows a great reverence for him. He may not embrace who your Jesus is -- Paul's jesus, the sacrificed lamb -- but I think Paul's time defining Christianity is over.
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven. “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ (Matthew 10:33-36)
@Chiyo1967 If you read Matthew 5 and Luke 6 you realize they are different occasions with similar messages not different translations. We are to be transformed to be like our Father. This can only be done by God's power in our lives, not some "self actualization" or some other self thing.
@mjm2662643 - The other translation, the one used in Luke says; "be ye merciful, as your father in heaven is merciful. I prefer that translation. It makes much more sense. After all, being fallible, imperfect and finite - how could a human being even know what "perfect" is? Let alone be perfect!
How about use the word compassionate over merciful? I think that fits how God views us. Being merciful sounds a little bit like it was lost in translation. That word means we are begging for someone not to beat us.
This man gives hope to religion.
@allthesealsareopen Jesus also said that you should love your enemies.
Spong is like the palpatine of Anglicanism
This is a wonderful antidote for some of the other films I was just watching on RUclips of different Christians and people of other faiths. This gives me hope.
CSoul,
I would assume that you are referencing Matt. 5:48. If you would rewind a few verses, you would get the entire understanding of that 48th verse.
Jesus was talking about loving all men, not just the ones that are in agreement with you. Jesus asked, "do not even the pagans do that?"
When he said be "perfect", he was really saying, be fair or be unbiased, even as our heavenly father is. That would tie into "our righteousness surpassing the Pharisees", it's doesn't come by the law.
Yes Jesus said false prophets would come. So why do all the "special people" think he was referring to 2000yrs later? He said it to people that were living at the time. Otherwise, why can't Paul be looked at as such? He fits the criteria of what Jesus said is a false prophet perfectly.
By castigating the 'orthodox', aren't you immediately excluding them from what it means to be "Christian" - if you are indeed trying to include everyone under that banner?
@goofy6622 The word catholic does mean universal; however, it is defined to then mean those that proclaimed that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Jesus pointed out "doctrinal" issues between pharisees and saducees. Jesus was full of grace AND truth. The truth is what got Him crucified after several attempts at stoning. [That was God's plan all along but still...] If Jesus only said love He would never had been killed.
Yes! When you quote the Truth of the Word of God, detractors are plentiful. Jesus warned of them. In Scripture, Satan is described as an angel of light; beholden to look at. Friend - I only give you the Truth of the Word of God, the Holy Bible. Your free will, a gift from God, is to decide if it's for you - or not.
It would be unfair if He didn't breath words for men to write. That gives us our guide.
We can understand the consequences of our choices for Him.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
If you live in willful, constant, rebellious sin against God, you are not ALL YOU CAN BE, you are lost and going to Hell. Repent & live.
@henryforshaw I sent you a pm with sources that you can read for yourself. Spong wrote the books. I didn't.
God Bless
Thank Gd for Spong!!
@MegaDudu999 You are right. Hands down....I agree. I just don't understand and don't want anything to do with it. I don't hate them or nothing like that..they just disgust me unless they are hot women.
@abominableangel Yep, it's okay to judge and the scripture tells us that anyone who teaches another gospel should be ACCURSED. Paul even tells us not to eat with these people unless they repent.
Don't even bother with Mattew 7. Anyone who has read the entire chapter knows what the entirety says. Oh yes, I remember now. It says don't throw your pearls before swine.
georgefrankleroy - And what would be this error you speak of?
You're being very modest about what your Christian faith claims for itself - that nobody gets to heaven but through Jesus Christ's forgiveness. You can talk all you want about being inclusive, but anyone who doesn't share that core belief of Christianity is going straight to hell when they die, according to what the majority of Christians believe. I have a Hindu friend, on the other hand, who believes I'm going to heaven just because I'm a decent person. THAT'S a deeply kind, moral belief.
@SkiesVibrant but its cool for you to judge yeah... i sooo remember Jesus giving you the ok for that not!
@SkiesVibrant You don't even quote your supposed master correctly, in fact John has Jesus say "I am the way the turth and the *life*" not "light" as you incorrectly stated. If you are going to use Scripture as a weapon, at least get it right.
By the way, if Jesus really said that and all the other fantastic things John quotes him saying, then why do you think John is the only one to mention it? Wouldn't sayings like "I and the father are one" be certainly included by every gospel writer?
@loudmouthspeaker God is Holly? Since when was God a tree?
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)
Dear John S. Spong, Jesus was not a universalist.
GodLovesMeCampaign That also proves Jesus is not god.
romans chapter one my friend
That makes THREE replys from you. I'm sorry I got under your skin so deeply.
@mistresspav me too.
Oh, brother. Called us to be perfect, just like God? There's an unattainable goal, destined to make the person who attempts it feel like a failure and evil sinner - just like this brand of Christianity wants, so that you can only feel worthy by following their version of Christianity, i.e. following their church leaders. It's all about love of power and corruption, and why Spong (who believes in empowering the individual) is such anathema to them.
No, I'm saying asking people to be what they can't possibly be has always been the church's way of controlling their flock. First they tear them down, then they insist such unworthiness can only be redeemed through forgiveness with the church as necessary go-between. The fact that it's in the bible means nothing, so are passages that are clearly pro-slavery and hateful toward women - it's all open to interpretation and even the most devout picks and chooses, whether they admit it or not.
The Bible doesn't even speak of a hell.
@WileNot Matthew 25:31-46 contradicts what you said about good works. The "sheep" aren't inheriting the kingdom because they believed, they are getting it because they did good works. The gospels were not written by Jesus but by people who didn't even know Jesus ~80 AD, and Paul who wrote the epistles and put faith above works, didn't "meet" Jesus until after Jesus' death. You seem to put more stock in Paul than you do in Jesus whereas Bishop Spong seems to be trying to spread the love of Jesus.
"The" Jesus "this" Jesus, these expressions come from a heart that hates Jesus though pretending to love him.
But Jesus certainly would've been bothered by that. He doesn't want anyone to perish. You call yourself a Christian, Costescu? Then don't forget the Christ of Christianity. Just remember the cross, and Who died on it.
the shame of it is, those who believe him will reap the same. I'm not bothered by this pagan going to hell, I am bothered that others will join him there.
Yes, you can tell that from his message of hate. Oh, wait a minute...
@EastofForever relax
@leptismagna10 Well sir, religion and human rights are two different things. I believe gays should have rights they shouldn't be discriminated against. But, I don't think they should have the right to marry.
Your comment is the reason for Spong. Too much irrationality in Christianity. Most people stopped believing in the devil during the Enlightenment. Spong is trying to make religion compatible w/ 21st Century knowledge.
If such a thing were true then God would be a devil. Giving finite and mortal beings the ability to decide their eternal destinies is unfair. We can't possibly understand the full consequences of our actions.
I love this guy, although I disagree with him about a few things.But you can't help being ''religious'' with a small ''r'' if you have any kind of belief system about G-d, have a ''G-d theory'' as someone eloquently put it.
PEACE
@SkiesVibrant Jesus ate with sinners, and Paul spurned them. I like Jesus' and Spong's message better.
@smellincoffee There is only one Jesus who transformed the destiny of man. Spong does not believe in the Christian God, so he is not a Christian. He is a member of a fan club. If he is happy with that, then that is his willing choice. I will pray for him. Actually if Spong is really listening to Jesus, then perhaps he should heed the words of Jesus. " I am the way, the truth, and the light, no man comes to Father except by me" & "I & the Father are One". Paul didn't say that Jesus did.
Bible prophecy fullfilled! Jesus said if you go around quoting me and The Word, you will be criticised. You are entrinched in your beliefs, as well as me ... so you do not pursuade - nor I. Doesn't matter. Truth does not change on your or my belief systems.
Why was Jesus killed? He said alot of unpopular Truth.
Liberalism is not Christianity. ~ J. Gresham Machen
at last a normal christian, well not normal he,s still deluded but, seems like a nice guy. pity all christians aren,t like him they,d get a little more respect. god-b-less
i pray that he one day sees the error in his teachings....
@illegalbrain What a terrible sin, typos.....
Jesus said what He said. It's not for me, or you and anyone else to decide what the gospel writers should have said. God did that and I'm not so arrogant as to determine what the diciples and apostles said and recorded. According to Spong, it apparently doesn't matter. How many times has Spong said homosexuality isn't a sin? Scripture records it as sin throughout the Old and New Testaments. BTW Paul didn't write any of the synoptic gospels.
Jesus also calls you to open your heart and accept Him as your savior. It is your only way. This man twists the faith and those who follow this satanic doctrine will surely go to hell.
It's all just opinions. You're a non-believer, no doubt, of numerous religious texts that others around the world believe in every bit as much as you believe in the Christian bible. The same thing you said to me, they would say to you: "Our holy texts matter far more than your opinion."
Jesus spoke more about the Kingdom of Heaven approaching and was far more concerned with peoples honesty and sincerity, and very important was our treatment of those in need. All of this was based on works, and by example would be an example of Godliness. When Jesus is asked how one enters life he says to keep the commandments, then went on to tell the story of the good samaritan, which was a compassion message.
Modern day Christian nuts follow Paul and all this "washed in his blood" nonsense.
@henryforshaw Do you have a point? The Great Commission given by Jesus is clear. He is the good news. My job is to protect the clarily of the life of Jesus.
A person simply cannot claim to be Christian if they deny the virgin birth and the resurrection. Spong believes that neither of these Biblical principles as it applies to our faith. No resurrecton, no heaven or hell. I don't know what Bible he uses. It doesn't really matter. He still denies the foundations of Christian Faith.
What is the Bible a guide for? How to get to Heaven? That would mean life is a game where if you believe the correct things about God you 'win' and go to Heaven. But if you don't believe correctly you 'lose' and go Hell. The Christian god seems quite the sadist.
"pity all christians aren,t like him they,d get a little more respect. god-b-less"
We do not need your pity. What this man speaks of in this video is why Jesus tells us why only a few will enter the KINGDOM OF GOD. These are not teachings of Jesus i tell you the truth. This man will only speak to tickle your ear. Jesus taught people to repent and turn from their sins and yes...to love love love. But in loving, He also tells us the truth even if it hurts.
The devil is very crafty.
@leptismagna10 You are gay right? You don't like Christianity because it states that your lifestyle is wrong. You don't believe in God because you think..God should love you for who you are right.
may the Lord protect people's minds from this serpent and his smooth words! Seriously, i think this guy's a great candidate for being the antichrist or something! i can tell his words could so easily twist the unguarded mind into acceptance of sin....
If this is what the bible taught, then I could agree with it. The bible teaches things like discrimination, bigotry, killing those with different beliefs (even the women and children), killing gays, etc.... Maybe this guy should rewrite the bible.
If you have seen what my brother and I have seen beyond the nature of this world and any scientific explanation then you will realize that it's not only a devil that exists in the people who create within themselves or their minds, but a physical one. I've seen the spirit world and you probably have not as why you say its only people who created it. I've heard your theory before plenty of times. It makes sense but it's not the truth. I respect your honest opinion but I simply don't agree.