If you are going to do an intro, with an enumerated list, do your intro last. Makes it easier to count the topics. Makes it easier on the editing. Makes it easier on YOU.
When I used to do a lot of tech presentations I’ve said there are 3 important points and the struggled to remember point 3 so many times it’s painful. Your approach seems so much less stressful 😂
I would pick American Magic. It’s a risk, but you need to beat all the competition to win. There are no prizes for 2nd. Therefore getting tough competition is a good thing.
"Are ETNZ concerned?" Cuts to a shot of ETNZ looking so relaxed they could be sipping cocktails on the beach as INEOS sails by in the background. 😅😅😅😅😅
Love your commentary Mozzy, you make this sport so much better for us who are here for the drama and suspense of great sport, but don't have a background in sailing. Your insights make watching the racing even better. Email sent ;) Kia Ora from Aotearoa New Zealand
@MozzySails nate an I are now NZs premium experts on foiling and America Cup .... having never sailed and personally only ever studied under your expert tutelage since Americas cup 36😊
Excellent review as always.. Go back a couple of weeks and I was convinced that the Kiwi's and Luna were almost untouchable in a different class with OE, Ineos and Alinghi in a fight for the wooden spoon. AM somewhere in the middle. Not saying Ineos are better than any other team now but a) They're still in it and b) They look as if they may be able to challenge now. I think many others had that same opinion so no apologies for appearing excited... Its game on 😊
To me the biggest differences for INEOS in Race 31 are that they timed the start perfectly while Prada turned back too early and had to slow way down, and that they've stopped taking stupid start and//or boundary penalties as in some previous races. Yes, they've improved their high mode, but I personally think that their improved execution is even more significant.
Is it fair to say they seem to have gained parity upwind with everyone now, even below 9 knots of wind, but downwind seem to be genuinely fast with potentially race winning pace?
As a Luna Rossa supporter I agree with you, since the beginning they make the same mistakes but now the other contenders have made improvements while LR hasn’t (yet?). We’re hoping in some adjustments, like the new sails… is going to be close. Congratulations again for your well-deserved victory.
@@patrickchase5614 Never underestimate Jamie Spithill he’s a Super smart man and leave’s no stone unturned as he’s been around boats since out of nappies
Grant Dalton is the most ruthless man I've ever met. There's a killer instinct in that guy, which is frightening to behold. I'd hate to be the crane driver who dropped that boat on it's foil.
Think I would be picking AM over Alinghi for the Semi's, yes it would be tougher (and a risk) but would also set them up match fit (and develop/test more speed) for a final with LR...LR would then potentially have an easier route not really testing potential or development as much...ETNZ should be 100% converned about facing LR or INEOS ;0) Love the INEOS Bow down windward heel mode... looks super fast 😉....great reviews as always this AC has been an awesome Sailing nerd fest🤓 loving every second!! Thanks
Mossy smells a sniff for the Brits, might have to rename the channel FrothySails! Good to see Ben and the boys sailing well. They may be accelerating towards history, or they may have pushed that NOS button too early? Insert 'eating popcorn' gif here.
I think that your second point is likely the best explanation, they showed their cards far too early, which is baffling because they didn't strategically need too. AC is as much about strategy as it is about sailing ability, and INEOS were never at risk of leaving first. That said, my boys' on ETNZ should take some pointers on the Brit's starting strategy, easiest the best in the pack.
Great video as always. They seem to have learnt fast and late (relatily) is better than on-time but slow. Any land sailor could of told them this. What we don't see is the classic hook at the start, it just does not work it's all about speed and keeping in clear air. Will be interesting who "discovers" this next a bit like Spital learnt to sail on San Francisco where fast and low was the way to beat us! Yeah I'm a Kiwi :)
One thing I noticed today being a Kiwi sailor/ boatbuilder is down wind ETNZ winward skin had gar less draft to it compared to all the challenges. Kiwis are slippery suckers and I feel of the starts go 50/50 with the final challenger the difference with once again be the innovation of the kiwi boat rolling into a marginal speed advantage. I hope I'm right, Go ETNZ, it will be a battle.
Team New Zealand only have to face one of these two boats. I don't believe they will be concerned at all. Grant Dalton isn't an engineer so anything he said about the foil possibly not sustaining damage can be taken with a grain of salt. A seven ton boat dropping on to the cradle with the foil arm taking much of the force on the ground would suggest it was probably damaged.
He said they were "scuffed", so define damaged I guess? The boat did race on them after. But a rough surface will quite legitimately degrade the performance of a wing, like ice on an aeroplane.
Being a Kiwi and knowing the kiwi mindset, they are not worried at all, so don't worry about it. In all seriousness, when it comes to the final showdown, I'd be surprised if ETNZ do not retain the Americas Cup. The developments that they have put in place, with the 40's and women races, and the fact that they have been selling off a design package, shows that they are a few miles ahead, still in the technology. It will be interesting and each location that these boats sail in is a whole new experience. However in saying that, it would certainly be interesting if the BRITS take home the cup. Just like the AB's we always need a wake up call every now and then.!! Peace.
I think it's really interesting that ETNZ were willing to sell the design package. I think it shows that they believe the true advantage is in HOW you sail, not WHAT you sail. I think we're seeing a development race in sailing technique, because it's the sailors who are limiting ultimate performance, not the boats. We hear them say, many times, "these boats are difficult to sail". That's great for this competition, and for the sport.
@@sailingstar8176 100% and to add to that, ETNZ want other teams to embrace the technology, and make the cup more affordable like the Sail GP series, currently in its 4th season.
yeah ..... I loved that French team, such a cool boat.... Orient Express is way cool and nice, but they had such limited time. THE FRENCH ARE HEROES TOO !!!!! Hope they come back next time :-))
ETNZ light wind foils are dialled on to their operator systems. Seen vs LR when the matched high and slow then "changed gear" to overtake in the preliminary race. Now their AC40 two boat trialling makes sense. They have a greater choice of options on semi auto dialled in to their operating systems. These boats are now using the equivalent of a sophisticated car and its semi automatic " paddle" gear change capability. Ineos have the win in the finals if the wi ter weather comes early. If it is light airs the odds favour ETNZ. Well done ETNZ for planning ahead and making a set of rules which played to their advanced development strengths in exploiting the "one system" which all teams have to use.
Back on the VMG topic, we now have the full collection of data to establish who has the fastest boat. It's very important to normalize VMG for wind speed, so the followings are VMG/TWS ratios. Here's the performance potential expressed by each team since the preliminary regatta (upwind | downwind): GBR: 2.4 | 3.2 NZL: 2.3 | 3.0 ITA: 2.3 | 2.9 FRA: 2.2 | 2.9 USA: 2.1 | 2.9 SUI: 2.0 | 2.7 But, interestingly, in the final race between Luna Rossa and Britannia, the latter won by catching better winds rather than leveraging its boat speed. Maybe the light winds simply didn't allow for anything different. Here's the data from that last race: GBR: 2.3 | 3.0 ITA: 2.3 | 2.9
That´s interesting. Would you also normalize the VMG by the true wind angle in relation to the course angle? because if you are on a lefty or righty, that improves VMG, but its not attributable to the boat. not sure the course angle info is available though
Given the fickleness of the breeze & the way some teams have sailed the shifts a little better than others, I'd question the value of a TWS taken at a few points along the course.
Interesting. What I am unsure about is the accuracy of the TWS data. The boats sail with quite a bit of leeway (both negative and at time positive). The data doesn't include the AWA and AWS which are the measured data, so it is hard to check the embedded calculation of TWS and TWA. I know in previous data from AC36 I had to make this correct myself to get sensible data (plus a lot of filtering to get only steady state straight line data)
Interesting that LR were at their best (compared to previous) VMG in the last race but INEOS could beat them with a VMG performance that wasn’t quite up to their best. I put up an earlier post saying I thought LR tried to out point INEOS and failed and your stats seems to support that. I think INEOS spent quite a bit of time focusing on speed over VMG to just make some of their turns in the holes so that could explain it a bit?
I would love to see the Media Data - particularly the Power data - to see if the reclining cyclors have a power issue (or not). The excellent GCN video suggests that they may not, but we have only seen snippets on the video footage so far. Perhaps one or more cyclors are playing a “privacy of personal medical data “ card with a hidden legal case in the background?
I want to see the data. But even more so, I want to have access to the virtual eye. AC Media is imo doing a poor job at repsenenting the races, especially in the summaries.Using the virtual eye ro show a sped up summary would be highly appreciated
yep, too many close up shots of one boat like in the prestart when the tactical manoeuvering is happening, or of the wrong boat, when the other boat os doing a critical manoeuvre.
Mozzy,at the Team GB reveal you had some very interesting ideas about their centre of gravity compared to the others. Do you think there is any evidence for that in the way they’ve sailed so far? As ever, really enjoying your analysis.
Great stuff Mozzy! My thinking is that it would depend where a team thought they were relative to other teams on the development curve as to who they would choose. If you're progressing faster than the other teams, choose the #4 qualifier. If you think #2 is getting better faster than you then try and knock them out first!
If you had watch and listened to the post match interviews with Ray Davies they have a lot more to Kit to get through and test gonna be a interesting final in the LV ETNZ will be waiting and testing every bit of kit they have
Its a great question. Im sure they are looking at the forecasts closely but id want to keep momentum and choose either LR or AM. Reduce the chance of them developing their race tactics or boat speed against the other team. If they choose the swiss, they'd be taking more of a gamble.
The margin between INEOS & LR is tight. I think American Magic should be concerned that the other two may be stretching out a sustainable edge. There have been very few overtakes in the Round Robins and to do so requires a really strong "high mode" - I think this will be definitive. Sail choice will also be key - having a good overlap on the cross over across the various codes. Being able to run the smallest jib for the conditions to reduce drag will be an advantage.
The parallels in characteristics between Ineos AC Team and Mercedes Ineos F! team are really interesting. Similar to the AC boat, the F1 cars of the past years were also quite radical, sometimes super fast, but generally a but too inconsistent and too hard to get into the sweet spot regarding the set up. So based on that logic, the AC Team is really close to getting the boat more consistently into the sweet spot and will only unlock even more potential haha
1: Ineos improved super fast, did they already shoot their last shots or did they really find a way to kick ass? They look scary though 2: today's events are very weird, I was already thinking that LR should forfeit their match against Alinghi after I saw the French kicked out by the Brits, and guess what happened... A foil arm failure that however was easily fixed in half an hour. Then they started a match vs the Brits in low wind and also easily gave them the better side of the course. Was all this a test of the Brits' strength in low winds and when they start ahead? I honestly can't believe LR really went so far, but if they did they are very smart
Sorry, while I know the ACC is full of tricks and gamemanship, I don't think I agree with the notion that LR gave up on purpose, definitely not the race against Ineos. Winning the RR1 and getting to chose your opponent for the semis is a real advantage and Spithill knows more than anyone how dangerous it is it to hand over momentum to your competitor.
I think that altitude data would be REALLY interesting given the seeming effect that different sea states seem to be having on different teams. I'm sure everyone to some extent is trying to rely on ground effect, but it clearly (to my eye) looks like some teams generally run a vertically higher mode than others given who has more and who has less foil tip ventilation. Prada has always seemed to run really low to me.
If ETNZ did change foils without following the process for a competitor in the round-robin, what would be the impact? they are not racing for points anyway so couldn't they change what they please and just be disqualified from the round robin - but continue to race anyway and are still set up fine for the cup defence in October?
If they knew that etnz changed their foil after the Barcelona Spain company drop the boat by 20ft onto the ground, then why the American cup let them race?? Making and excuses won't fixes anything.. but to stop them racing because etnz Taihoro is flying out in the ocean and beating every other boats.
The impact would be the ability to test another set of foils against the challengers to determine what foil generally works best. The more foils they can test in real race conditions the more prepared they will be in the finals. It's a R&D advantage (where R = race)
@@jamesaron1967 yes exactly, a benefit for ETNZ to do this, but I don't see any consequences in the rules. The round-robin for ETNZ was not scored and has no bearing on the cup defence so potentially they are deliberately breaking a rule here that the challenges must adhere to.
@@captain-hooked They're only breaking a rule if they swapped foils without undergoing the necessary notification period or if they faked damaging their boat that would have been the only open door for a foil swap. I don't see evidence for that but you're right about this round of races having no bearing on NZ for the AC.
To me, when I’m watching Ineos race now, they look like their rig is much more powered up than anyone else. They seem to have oodles of power to keep going through the light stuff and downwind. they’re turning that power into pure speed. I don’t know what they’ve done to their rig, but it’s definitely more powered up than other boats from my opinion.
Thank you for your video's, it's always nice to have people trying to look into these things cos the teams are not so generous with the insight info, which is quite enoying. I have two questions thow; Does the public also have access to the virtual eye video's ? And how do the 'semi's' work? The first one chooses it's opponent for the whole series? Why do the 4 boats just don't race all against each other as in the first round?
Virtual eye can be found on the AC website under racing: www.americascup.com/advanced-dashboard INEOS pick their opponent for the semi final then the other two teams match. It's first to five wins. Then the final is first to 7 (like the Cup match itself). I think they move to 1v1 elimination races as it allows the teams to learn each other and test in a range of conditions. Also the double round robin format without ETNZ or Orient express would be pretty short with limited races to find a true winner (just my opinion)
Thank you for your reply. I'm glad with the Virtual Eye I was realy curious to see how GBR did it in the two last races at the start. They were realy fast at the start, good on them. Im not sure i got your point realy well concerning the semi finals. For me there should be a semi final (4 boats) but without choosing an opponent, just sail a kind of RR3 and then RR4 as a final. Where is the glory as best team to beat the 'weakest' team and to end up against the second strongest in the final anyways; I mean in this actual chosen system. This is just my oppinion. Cheers from Belgium.
2-3 weeks hardly makes a difference in training on these yachts. They were simply too late for the party and when they did arrive, trained too few hours. Too little experience on their boat and that is very unfortunate.
The comments in the official AC channel concerning INEOS when _Britannia_ was launched and commenced trials were scathing, to say the least. So much in fact that one day I was fed up with seeing them and posted a comment asking why all the loathing for INEOS? I couldn't comprehend it. A little later the first recon disclosing the teams' boat speeds revealed that INEOS was clocked fastest one training day. It was generally ignored. People continued commenting on how slow INEOS appeared in every video, and I kept reminding them about the recon report. This continued until the recon officially ended, and as a consequence so did all the comments. Fast forward to today... I hate to tell you all ITYS, but, I kinda did.
I agree. There's been a lot of 'chat' based on what the boat looked like and not what it was actually doing. I also think that the sailing team have improved massively over this series - it was a wonder to watch them round the race course.
I saw (and made) a couple of comments about INEOS's lack of VMG (different from outright speed), low wind reliability/manoeuvrability and absence of a competitive 'high mode'. At the time, those comments were fair but the last two days of racing have shown improvement in all areas, and also a previously unseen (in race conditions) performance strength in the higher wind range. It looks like a more complete, tuned package, which is being sailed better, and not dropping 75M most races due to unforced errors as was the case earlier on. The early results did flatter INEOS (bear in mind that two competitors lost races due to falling off their foils) but the later races show Britannia to be an improved version of itself. Get your emails in so we can see the data!!
People don’t like INEOS simply because of Bens attitude this and the last Americas cup. Always complaining and blaming others. Move to today he is full of smiles and on his toes. GB V NZ
@@outdoorsewingsolutions Perhaps there's some truth in what you say but I do not recall Ainslie mentioned in the negative comments I came across. It was always about the appearance of _Britannia_ and her speed relative to the other teams. Purely subjective negative statements.
There's only been one team in one race where you can categorically say there was zero sandbagging, and that was France's last race. I wouldn't get too giddy just yet as I'm sure the Italians, Yanks & Swiss have far more tricks up their sleeves, and as for the Kiwis, we've no idea whatsoever apart from they'll be much, much stronger!!
They show TWS and VMG occasionally but I would prefer to see VMG as normal and boat speed occasionally. Trouble is, the media show stats for the general public rather than sailors. I wonder what the ratio of general public/sailors really is?
thanks for the great insights once again. I like Ian Williams idea. I think it carries a lot of merit for INEOS to choose LR and not give them the chance to improve while racing another team. One way or the other, INEOS will be facing them, so better to get it out of the way while they seem vulnerable. Watching the RR racing it seems as if LR started out really strong. But while the other teams are constantly finding improvments LR is not so much and thus the other teams are beating them. Did LR peak to early!?!?
@@jamesbong4928 That's my suspicion with LR. When Spithill was asked his thoughts on the defeat to Ineos after the race when he said their only goal was only 'was to get to the semis 'I could almost sense him holding back his other thought...... 'and not to show your hand too early'
Given the watts pumped out by the cyclors throughout the round robin, I think Britannia will need to assess the condition and recovery of theirs. Also, they seem to have a speed advantage in light conditions, so the weather forecast becomes more important?. So I guess, Britannia's choice of opponents will very much depend on these factors.
If INEOS have the courage of their commitment to the end game, they'd choose the second strongest challenger besides themselves (or even, if they were supremely courageous, the strongest) in order to have the best chance of matching or overmatching the defender. The second option would give them very high level competition for both the semis and the finals ( the latter, because the winner from the other pair in the semis would, by then, be more race-hardened than if INEOS had chosen to meet them earlier per option 1)
I think that Ineos will choose their opponent based on relative expected performance in 2 weeks time in the final. Right now they are able to beat Luna Rossa, but what will be the situation in 2 weeks? If Ineos has only few/minor improvement to bring and if they think that the Italians have still plenty of speed up their sleeves, than it is better to face them as soon as possible. If they think that the situation will evolve in their favor (if they think that the Italians are pretty much at their best now) then it is better to choose Alinghi or AM that looks a little bit like an empty corps having lost momentum.
Does anyone know where the data can be found that is used to make those graphs? If I recall correctly Mozzy doesn't do them himself, someone else scrapes it from behind the scenes and provides Mozzy with them. I would be interested in playing around with the raw data to compare VMG over different TWSs. If anyone knows where the public data is, please let me know!
But they will have to beat LR at some point to get to the main event. Might be better for INEOS to take on LR next while INEOS are on the up and could have a slight psychological advantage after yesterday's win. INEOS won't learn much beating Alinghi but LR will have a massive opportunity to tune up taking on AM in tough racing. In which case there will be only one winner in the final.
@@robertwoodroffe123 No, INEOS now choose who they meet in the semi finals. They have a free choice so could take Luna Rosa next. Here is the wording from the AC's own website: For INEOS Britannia, by finishing top amongst the Challengers, they now hold all the aces and can select both their opponent and the side of entry for their first race. Who they pick, be it the Italians, Americans or Swiss, they can be sure of a blockbuster battle where the first to win five races will secure a spot in the Louis Vuitton Cup Final.
I think LR is the more developed package and has less room for improvement in the future so I’d be less worried about knocking them out in the semis? I’d get rid of AM or Alinghi now. Decision might be based on wind projections for next week but INEOS must be feeling they could pick anyone and have a great chance of winning right now.
@@timmedcalf1357 why not pick AM? Tune up against them and then face LR if they haven't learnt as much from alinghi. Means you get to face opponents of increasing difficulty while maximising learning. Marginal gains, but everything counts
If Ineos choose Alinghi you would imagine the competition wouldnt be as good I think they wouldn't learn as much as competing against a harder rival and therefore be less prepared for the next stage.
Organisers are sometimes a bit wary of making a team's advantage too public, too early. In the VOR, DFRT discovered a certain amount of cant on the keel gave then a significant speed advantage (after hours, days & weeks of practice) other teams hadn't learned. VOR shared this with other teams removing the advantage that har work had learned in just a blink. Naturally the team were not impressed.
I think Ineos will choose Luna Rossa in the semis, reasoning that the sooner they race them the better, because if they don't meet them in the semis they are likely to meet a more honed LR in the finals.
If they want to win the Am Cup rather than just the LV, there's a strong case for meeting the strongest competitor last. There's also a strong case for meeting the second strongest (after LR) in the semis, rather than the bunny of the fleet. Other rationales are also defensible... But I think meeting the bunny in the semis is actually the worst option, assuming the Am Cup is the focus.
Definitely chose Alinghi to get more time for development before facing I assume the Italians. However, American Magic looks vulnerable to me. Mozzy pointed out the potential lack of oil and they also suffer dropping off their foils more easily and seem more prone to mistakes. However, I’d still choose Alinghi.
Virtual Eye provided all the graphics for the 36th America's Cup, including a disturbed air visual. AC37 has more players involved, with WindSight IQ helping viewers and commentators understand wind patterns, team tactics, and optimal routes. Virtual Eye provides visualisations for the racetrack and the positions of the boats. Seems to me it was better last time. Virtual Eye is a little Kiwi company, whereas WindSight IQ has been developed by Capgemini; you'd guess they've splashed plenty of cash around to get their name up in lights.
And plus, most of the French team are actually French. Which i belive this helps with team cohesion, experience with one another, trust, terminology, etc.
IMO INEOS sailed better then Luna Rossa today, controlling every step of the race from the start, but drawing conclusions is a bit premature, as there are tactics and disguises at play when you already safeguarded your next round place. You might want to see what happens when you are behind, or in a breeze disadvantaged position in the race, and you may want to quantify how much you can lose and when you can gain in different wind conditions. It is all more useful data then just sailing away and forget about your competitor, because by comparing your performances you have, by now, nothing to lose and everything to gain and collect. LR "might" be checking "what if", now then its inconsequential over what appears to be the strongest competitor, in the next stages of the race, when they still have to earn the winning tickets. It is also about who you want to face in the next round. I think in the next Round we will see how the teams actually intend to sail and what their true potential is when the Kiwis won't be able to draw any direct data from what is happening on the course.
I agree, Luna Rossa was a disaster yesterday. My impression is that there was only one boat racing yesterday, the other was doing something else and didn't stand a chance. Did anyone notice the tone of the conversation on board Luna Rossa? Hopefully I'm wrong (it happens very often 😁)
Ineos is faster. Faster tacks, faster speed in up and down winds. But LR will show a new upgrade saturday, it's like F1. Will see who spent those 200mln better..
Funny how Allinghi 'suddenly' turned it on in two consecutive races when they were lagging at the bottom of the table... I'd be flabbergasted if any team has shown anything of their true speed tbh, Kiwis included.
As far as the Louis Vuitton cup regatta where the defender is competing on a non points basis only in the round robin... Do those rules regarding the 120 hours apply to the defender or are they allowed to change foils?
Yeah, Nah! I haven't seen anything out there yet from the challengers to suggest we should be concern. Dalts just showing you guys what he wants you to see lol. They're just there to get race fit and gauge everyone else. It's really playing into ETNZ hands like the previous cup.
Anyone who is a fan of close competition and a chance for a new defender has a crush on any challenger that does well. You on the other hand, is full blown team Ineos. Good for you on the latest improvement. Depending on who you ask in this comment section, Mozzy has a crush on Ineos, LR, Magic or the Kiwis. You will find people who are dead sure they see bias in him. So, thanks for being another one that proves to me how admirably a job he does at actually just reporting what he sees. Actually, a very good reporter - or supporter - can be a fan of a team and stay levelheaded and humble. Just not many "real fans" can do it, but good reporters can. They pack away their bias or become even harsher on "their" team to make up for it. Or they declare it fully. Either way works for me.
Who to choose. If choose the Italians. It's either first to 5 now on the back of 011 and a breakdown or it's a longer match once they have had time to settle. Keep the pressure on the strongest opponent and take them on early!
Now that the French are out of the cup, does the AC37 protocol allow them to practice race with ETNZ? It would provide great experience for the French who really needed another month in their boat ahead of the racing, more practice and race data to learn and unlock more from their boat ahead of future AC design decisions being made, and of course for ETNZ, invaluable race practice and testing against a quick boat
@@MozzySails an oversight by ETNZ? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall Oracle USA practicing with the Japanese Team ahead of the AC finals in AC35 which would be hugely beneficial to the defender
INEOS are sailing very nicely and likely learn more from facing Magic than Alinghi next. Luna Rossa probably feel confident against any contenders apart from Britannia. Magic though, perhaps struggling with the implications of their design/configuration, might be due to unlock improvements. A wounded Slingsby/Goodison combo are not to be underestimated.
I'm hoping American Magic can pull it together. It seems like they are just a bit of a mess. When it works, that boat seems to kick butt, but too often it's not working. I think they benched two of their cyclors for one reason or another because the day after the shock loss to the Swiss, they only switched two cyclors instead of the full crew between races. I think they also are not doing "the best job" of executing tacks (could be a boat problem, could be a crew problem), while simultaneously not doing the best job of minimizing the number of manuevers that they use to get down the course. Which all means that they are trying to tack a lot and also losing a lot of speed in each of those tacks. If none of these things are boat problems and Patriot does in fact have a high performance ceiling, then they could most likely find some hidden performance from just cleaning everything up. However, if Patriot is actually contributing to the issues (ie it doesn't tack well or just isn't as fast in a straight line as hoped), then they might be toast.
@@JMurph2015 Slingsby's prominence atop the heap in SailGP says that he's likely motivated to find a way & may relish having a few levers to try to pull because it is not 1-design. Having Luna Rossa initially sailing well, then INEOS finding improvement, before Patriot getting it together would be a pretty remarkable sequence of events for the regatta. If it is a good contest, I don't care who wins. Another regatta or 2 might help syndicates optimise their set up & gain more insight over what they do. Perhaps that they are so normalised to 1-design competition, it takes some time to break out of the mentality of being alike. In the AC the differences in boat design may mean that mimicking the on-the-water tactics is not a recipe for success. Maybe at the end of the whole thing, enough people will be thinking "I wanna do that again, but don't want to wait 3 years".
If I were Ineos I'd choose Alinghi, but not because of any particular speed advantage or the fact that they've won the least amount of races. I'd choose them because they've been the most creative and most aggressive in the pre-starts. If you can get valuable game-time in pre-starts that will give you a good advantage later in the regatta - presuming they beat them of course.
That's an interesting and plausible argument. Thanks! (As for your last words: If they can't beat Alinghi, their chances of winning the Am Cup are negligible, so it hardly seems a risk factor worth them considering)
Apologies if somebody already asked this but why are the main sails seemingly double-skinned ? Is it to hide the internals perhaps, or a bunch of reasons?
it was introduced in the previous cup for several reasons: 1) Soft sails which can be hoisted make the boat easier to manage during docking than solid wing sails (see carnage at SailGP Sydney) 2) Using a twin skin and D section rotating mast you can eliminate much of the separation bubble that occurs on spars with single skins. This drastically reduces drag. 3) It means the sail makers can make money again :)
Question: Do all teams still have to submit which boat equipment eg foils and sails they will use 120 hours before the start of the semi finals and finals series? Thank You.
@@MozzySails I assume that is so they can each check the other teams are using Rules allowed kit. But it is a brake on the pace and feedback on new development surely? Thank you.
After the race today, the fact that the Americans blew three starts may not have changed their results? For a while they looked competitive with the Kiwis minus another start penalty for just being late.
AC is about making the boat go faster once there and constant tweaking. ETNZ still got a lot up there sleeve they will be a few clicks faster as they always in the past
I can't see any more hidden speed in the Luna Rossa boat.... But can anyone else? I recall they got a lot faster in Auckland after the round robins - before the LV final. I'm interested to see what they show now. But my question...mainsails. Do we think that is a good place to bury performance gains? It must be the hardest thing for the opposition to evaluate.
Agree on both points. I think INEOS have a fast foil and not sure others can do much there. Interesting on the inside tack channel INEOS were saying their sail team were desperate to get stuck into next improvements and were annoyed the race off lost them some time there 😀. I think sails could be the big unknown - I think NZ are expecting their “race sails” quite soon?
Ineos showed it’s potential in the race a few days ago vs the French They incurred not one but two penalties yet easily caught up to the French & comfortably won that’s a team & package that know they can win If ETNZ don’t win then I’ll support Ineos largely because ETNZ & Ineos are the only true local nationality team members at the current top level
The challenging teams are only now catching up to ETNZ in speed. We have the luxury of getting even more R&D time and speed from the boat , while the challengers have to race and focus on that . Come the big dance we will be considerably faster .
As a kiwi what I find missing from this time round is jimmy Spithill isn’t being a dick. The teams seem all great problem and seems a very good spirit to the competition. Contrast with the hideous Dennis Connor of the past.
I personally think JS had stopped being a dick by the time of the 2017 Cup, and even prior to that, much of what was labelled "dick moves" on his part were simple confidence, which proved to be amply justified. I've always felt that a strong Aussie accent tends to make even quite reasonable people sound rather dickish.... The culture of the high profile teams on SailGP was quite good from its inception, but has become (I reckon) quite admirable in the last few seasons, and because the personnel carry over to AC to such an extent, it seems to me it has lifted all boats. Even Ainslie is showing flashes of statesmanlike composure and maturity. As an exception to the carry-over, I have to confess Alinghi seem like fantastically good sports (which had arguably not previously been a notable feature of the team culture). Finally I think TNZ have made some important and in some cases almost magnanimous changes which have moved the AC culture in a more open direction, such as sharing of data, fixing the ridiculous espionage arms race, and selling (at realistic prices) working examples of their tech and design prowess (simulation software, AC40s for all, and 1x AC72)
For the semi-final I think INEOS picks Alinghi which leaves Luna Rosa with AM. Keep in mind the semi-final is first to 5 points to win which is a rather short format ripe for chaos.
How many foil wing changes are allowed before you start from the pits? On a more serious note is their a reluctance to give the data. I was looking at one race and they said in the recap they said they would see what went wrong for one boat in leg 4 but that leg was missed out completely in the recap.
One thing you haven’t discussed much is the starting software and the time on distance simulation. I think Britannia must have had upgrades during the series, as their starts have improved a lot. I’ve also been surprised by how often boats are getting trapped in the disturbed air of competitors and trying to do low speed starting maneuvers in dirty air. Even as an amateur on a displacement boat I’d avoid that. It seems odd to me that there aren’t more boats trying to lock out the ‘boat’ end of the line with layline starts on starboard and simple time on distance to the line to prevent high-speed starts from above the line. Any thoughts why a simple on the wind start isn’t favoured to counter the high-speed along dive around the right hand end?
really good point. Do you watch the INEOS post race analysis? In one of these they mentioned they had updated the yacht performance polars within the race management software & tactical aid (one design system). I think this has helped iron out some of the errors in starting and time to kill calculations
Generally you will want a foil which can do a high mode and cope at ow speeds on port foil (starboard tack) for the prestart. Then a faster foil on staboard side for port tack
I’d pick to go against Luna Rossa in the semi finals. Would be great to dispatch them before they get stronger. It’s likely they would be again then in the final anyway. Risk is that American Magic and Alinghi catch up but that’s the gamble.
Ineos Britannia seem on an upward projectory and they can really concentrate on their starts and pace of the boat racing Alinghi before facing Luna Rossa in the final.
Do you think there could ever be FLEET RACING in the Americas Cup ? Right now (before the French go home) , and in between the LV cup imagine all teams racing in something similar to Sail GP ! Wouldn’t that be a bit more dynamic ? Maybe an opportunity for a brewer/ watchmaker sponsored event . Your thoughts…
I can, which is a 180 degree turnaround form the pre-match. They have some serious improvements on that boat. They are pointing waaaaaaaaaaaay better. Low speed has improved rapidly. If the others don’t improve INEOS will be in the final, Jesus I can’t believe I just said that.
I agree, I love this regatta. LR have looked scary good and very consistent standing out to me. But when I read this headline with ineos as favorite, I just thought, have I missed something?? Good luck ineos but I just don't see it from the results on race day. Go the kiwis for AC!
Hi, just living this chan: boosting the excitement with the technical insights, so thanks! Where can I look at the data you show (I need to learn what it all means as I’m certain I don’t really understand what the shape of those ‘blobs mean, although I can tell what the horizontal line at the widest part of the waist means - I think 😅). Anybody help with a url or a name or whatever please? PS: Have emailed as requested!!!🎉
Thanks for emailing. The data can be obtained raw in the race review files: ac37noticeboard.acofficials.org/racing-rules-umpires/race-review-files Or ERDB has done really good work with plots and visualisation here: sites.google.com/view/ac37racedata/home
The blobby diagrams in the "Straight line foiling performance" section on the "AC37 Race Data" detail pages are violin plots, showing the statistical distribution of the data. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_plot. Looks like the violins are overlain with quartiles. For the Tacks and Jibes sections, I guess the solid lines are summaries of the dotted detail lines. I don't know if they are means or medians.
Regarding Brit's choice, how does selecting the Swiss help you prepare for the Kiwis? You need to keep getting push to get to the level needed to remove the Cup.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I said three things... but then listed four things! I can't count, but you got a bonus topic!
😂
If you are going to do an intro, with an enumerated list, do your intro last. Makes it easier to count the topics. Makes it easier on the editing. Makes it easier on YOU.
Great job Tom!
When I used to do a lot of tech presentations I’ve said there are 3 important points and the struggled to remember point 3 so many times it’s painful. Your approach seems so much less stressful 😂
I would pick American Magic. It’s a risk, but you need to beat all the competition to win. There are no prizes for 2nd. Therefore getting tough competition is a good thing.
"Are ETNZ concerned?" Cuts to a shot of ETNZ looking so relaxed they could be sipping cocktails on the beach as INEOS sails by in the background. 😅😅😅😅😅
hahaha ... yup. I think INEos Have been experimenting with their mainsail sheeting .. ask Mozzzie about it lol
Waiting for the fat lady to sing. About of water to pass under the hulls yet
I have a feeling that watching these races with no graphics is akin to watching grass wilt.
I am confident that Grant Dalton doesn´t like this!
@@dulls8475it's you dulls! Haven't seen you on Anarchy recently.😊
Thanks Mozzy. AC Media emailed too.
Thought provoking as always. Your channel is a valuable addition to the Cup...... thank you for all your efforts in this regard.
I’d say that Ben switching from the Rolex to the Casio watch made a great difference in timing the subsequent starts😊
Love your commentary Mozzy, you make this sport so much better for us who are here for the drama and suspense of great sport, but don't have a background in sailing. Your insights make watching the racing even better. Email sent ;) Kia Ora from Aotearoa New Zealand
Glad you enjoy it!
There you are😂
@MozzySails nate an I are now NZs premium experts on foiling and America Cup .... having never sailed and personally only ever studied under your expert tutelage since Americas cup 36😊
Love these videos ❤
Thanks
Excellent review as always..
Go back a couple of weeks and I was convinced that the Kiwi's and Luna were almost untouchable in a different class with OE, Ineos and Alinghi in a fight for the wooden spoon. AM somewhere in the middle. Not saying Ineos are better than any other team now but a) They're still in it and b) They look as if they may be able to challenge now.
I think many others had that same opinion so no apologies for appearing excited... Its game on 😊
To me the biggest differences for INEOS in Race 31 are that they timed the start perfectly while Prada turned back too early and had to slow way down, and that they've stopped taking stupid start and//or boundary penalties as in some previous races. Yes, they've improved their high mode, but I personally think that their improved execution is even more significant.
Is it fair to say they seem to have gained parity upwind with everyone now, even below 9 knots of wind, but downwind seem to be genuinely fast with potentially race winning pace?
As a Luna Rossa supporter I agree with you, since the beginning they make the same mistakes but now the other contenders have made improvements while LR hasn’t (yet?). We’re hoping in some adjustments, like the new sails… is going to be close. Congratulations again for your well-deserved victory.
Ineos forced Prada to turn back early - that was the killer move.
@@patrickchase5614 Never underestimate Jamie Spithill he’s a Super smart man and leave’s no stone unturned as he’s been around boats since out of nappies
Appreciate and enjoy Mozzy’s analysis! Thank you
Much appreciated!
Grant Dalton is the most ruthless man I've ever met. There's a killer instinct in that guy, which is frightening to behold. I'd hate to be the crane driver who dropped that boat on it's foil.
Think I would be picking AM over Alinghi for the Semi's, yes it would be tougher (and a risk) but would also set them up match fit (and develop/test more speed) for a final with LR...LR would then potentially have an easier route not really testing potential or development as much...ETNZ should be 100% converned about facing LR or INEOS ;0) Love the INEOS Bow down windward heel mode... looks super fast 😉....great reviews as always this AC has been an awesome Sailing nerd fest🤓 loving every second!! Thanks
Mossy smells a sniff for the Brits, might have to rename the channel FrothySails! Good to see Ben and the boys sailing well. They may be accelerating towards history, or they may have pushed that NOS button too early?
Insert 'eating popcorn' gif here.
I think that your second point is likely the best explanation, they showed their cards far too early, which is baffling because they didn't strategically need too. AC is as much about strategy as it is about sailing ability, and INEOS were never at risk of leaving first. That said, my boys' on ETNZ should take some pointers on the Brit's starting strategy, easiest the best in the pack.
The Kiwis thoroughly understand every aspect.
Great video as always. They seem to have learnt fast and late (relatily) is better than on-time but slow. Any land sailor could of told them this.
What we don't see is the classic hook at the start, it just does not work it's all about speed and keeping in clear air. Will be interesting who "discovers" this next a bit like Spital learnt to sail on San Francisco where fast and low was the way to beat us!
Yeah I'm a Kiwi :)
One thing I noticed today being a Kiwi sailor/ boatbuilder is down wind ETNZ winward skin had gar less draft to it compared to all the challenges. Kiwis are slippery suckers and I feel of the starts go 50/50 with the final challenger the difference with once again be the innovation of the kiwi boat rolling into a marginal speed advantage. I hope I'm right, Go ETNZ, it will be a battle.
Sounds good and I hope you're but can you explain what you mean by less draft in the windward sail? That mainsheet set up is amazing.
Thanks again for Update and analysis. Please explain the data graphics on the left of the screen you shown before. They look like a Rorschach test
Team New Zealand only have to face one of these two boats. I don't believe they will be concerned at all. Grant Dalton isn't an engineer so anything he said about the foil possibly not sustaining damage can be taken with a grain of salt. A seven ton boat dropping on to the cradle with the foil arm taking much of the force on the ground would suggest it was probably damaged.
We're 7 tons, but reduced down to 6.
Could have damaged a number of things on those foils, internal working, so yes quite possible I'd say.
Or TNZ will use the drop to claim damage just to change and experiment with the foils. Most of the teams would do the same.
He said they were "scuffed", so define damaged I guess? The boat did race on them after. But a rough surface will quite legitimately degrade the performance of a wing, like ice on an aeroplane.
Or is it just the foil swapping sides?
@@PatandAndreaArchibald Presumably Mozzy would know; he monitors the reconn very closely
Being a Kiwi and knowing the kiwi mindset, they are not worried at all, so don't worry about it. In all seriousness, when it comes to the final showdown, I'd be surprised if ETNZ do not retain the Americas Cup. The developments that they have put in place, with the 40's and women races, and the fact that they have been selling off a design package, shows that they are a few miles ahead, still in the technology. It will be interesting and each location that these boats sail in is a whole new experience. However in saying that, it would certainly be interesting if the BRITS take home the cup. Just like the AB's we always need a wake up call every now and then.!! Peace.
Beauty
I think it's really interesting that ETNZ were willing to sell the design package. I think it shows that they believe the true advantage is in HOW you sail, not WHAT you sail. I think we're seeing a development race in sailing technique, because it's the sailors who are limiting ultimate performance, not the boats. We hear them say, many times, "these boats are difficult to sail". That's great for this competition, and for the sport.
@@sailingstar8176 100% and to add to that, ETNZ want other teams to embrace the technology, and make the cup more affordable like the Sail GP series, currently in its 4th season.
@sailingstar8176 that's been my view too although the Americans have had the most time on the water and are under performing.
Plenty of wake up calls for the abs for several years now, they need to dismantle the snooze button.
Thanks Mozzy, always thoroughly enjoy your analysis.
yeah ..... I loved that French team, such a cool boat.... Orient Express is way cool and nice, but they had such limited time. THE FRENCH ARE HEROES TOO !!!!!
Hope they come back next time :-))
ETNZ light wind foils are dialled on to their operator systems. Seen vs LR when the matched high and slow then "changed gear" to overtake in the preliminary race. Now their AC40 two boat trialling makes sense. They have a greater choice of options on semi auto dialled in to their operating systems. These boats are now using the equivalent of a sophisticated car and its semi automatic " paddle" gear change capability. Ineos have the win in the finals if the wi ter weather comes early. If it is light airs the odds favour ETNZ. Well done ETNZ for planning ahead and making a set of rules which played to their advanced development strengths in exploiting the "one system" which all teams have to use.
Great to see Ineos improve, they are looking like a possible challenger
Back on the VMG topic, we now have the full collection of data to establish who has the fastest boat.
It's very important to normalize VMG for wind speed, so the followings are VMG/TWS ratios.
Here's the performance potential expressed by each team since the preliminary regatta (upwind | downwind):
GBR: 2.4 | 3.2
NZL: 2.3 | 3.0
ITA: 2.3 | 2.9
FRA: 2.2 | 2.9
USA: 2.1 | 2.9
SUI: 2.0 | 2.7
But, interestingly, in the final race between Luna Rossa and Britannia, the latter won by catching better winds rather than leveraging its boat speed. Maybe the light winds simply didn't allow for anything different.
Here's the data from that last race:
GBR: 2.3 | 3.0
ITA: 2.3 | 2.9
That´s interesting. Would you also normalize the VMG by the true wind angle in relation to the course angle? because if you are on a lefty or righty, that improves VMG, but its not attributable to the boat. not sure the course angle info is available though
Given the fickleness of the breeze & the way some teams have sailed the shifts a little better than others, I'd question the value of a TWS taken at a few points along the course.
VMG is always based on True Wind Direction (and so TWA). VMC is course based velocity
Interesting. What I am unsure about is the accuracy of the TWS data. The boats sail with quite a bit of leeway (both negative and at time positive). The data doesn't include the AWA and AWS which are the measured data, so it is hard to check the embedded calculation of TWS and TWA. I know in previous data from AC36 I had to make this correct myself to get sensible data (plus a lot of filtering to get only steady state straight line data)
Interesting that LR were at their best (compared to previous) VMG in the last race but INEOS could beat them with a VMG performance that wasn’t quite up to their best. I put up an earlier post saying I thought LR tried to out point INEOS and failed and your stats seems to support that. I think INEOS spent quite a bit of time focusing on speed over VMG to just make some of their turns in the holes so that could explain it a bit?
whoever the team may be ETNZ will be ready and waiting
I would love to see the Media Data - particularly the Power data - to see if the reclining cyclors have a power issue (or not). The excellent GCN video suggests that they may not, but we have only seen snippets on the video footage so far.
Perhaps one or more cyclors are playing a “privacy of personal medical data “ card with a hidden legal case in the background?
I want to see the data.
But even more so, I want to have access to the virtual eye.
AC Media is imo doing a poor job at repsenenting the races, especially in the summaries.Using the virtual eye ro show a sped up summary would be highly appreciated
yep, too many close up shots of one boat like in the prestart when the tactical manoeuvering is happening, or of the wrong boat, when the other boat os doing a critical manoeuvre.
Mozzy,at the Team GB reveal you had some very interesting ideas about their centre of gravity compared to the others. Do you think there is any evidence for that in the way they’ve sailed so far? As ever, really enjoying your analysis.
I've been wondering about this part of it too?
Great stuff Mozzy! My thinking is that it would depend where a team thought they were relative to other teams on the development curve as to who they would choose. If you're progressing faster than the other teams, choose the #4 qualifier. If you think #2 is getting better faster than you then try and knock them out first!
If you had watch and listened to the post match interviews with Ray Davies they have a lot more to Kit to get through and test gonna be a interesting final in the LV ETNZ will be waiting and testing every bit of kit they have
So will all the other teams!
@@melvinlonghurst8394 Bruh all the other teams won’t be in the final 🤦🏾♂️😂😂😂
@chloeliterallyno7504 only the best of them will be there.
Thats for the vids mozzy
Its a great question. Im sure they are looking at the forecasts closely but id want to keep momentum and choose either LR or AM. Reduce the chance of them developing their race tactics or boat speed against the other team. If they choose the swiss, they'd be taking more of a gamble.
The margin between INEOS & LR is tight.
I think American Magic should be concerned that the other two may be stretching out a sustainable edge.
There have been very few overtakes in the Round Robins and to do so requires a really strong "high mode" - I think this will be definitive.
Sail choice will also be key - having a good overlap on the cross over across the various codes.
Being able to run the smallest jib for the conditions to reduce drag will be an advantage.
The parallels in characteristics between Ineos AC Team and Mercedes Ineos F! team are really interesting. Similar to the AC boat, the F1 cars of the past years were also quite radical, sometimes super fast, but generally a but too inconsistent and too hard to get into the sweet spot regarding the set up.
So based on that logic, the AC Team is really close to getting the boat more consistently into the sweet spot and will only unlock even more potential haha
insightful
1: Ineos improved super fast, did they already shoot their last shots or did they really find a way to kick ass? They look scary though
2: today's events are very weird, I was already thinking that LR should forfeit their match against Alinghi after I saw the French kicked out by the Brits, and guess what happened... A foil arm failure that however was easily fixed in half an hour. Then they started a match vs the Brits in low wind and also easily gave them the better side of the course. Was all this a test of the Brits' strength in low winds and when they start ahead?
I honestly can't believe LR really went so far, but if they did they are very smart
Sorry, while I know the ACC is full of tricks and gamemanship, I don't think I agree with the notion that LR gave up on purpose, definitely not the race against Ineos.
Winning the RR1 and getting to chose your opponent for the semis is a real advantage and Spithill knows more than anyone how dangerous it is it to hand over momentum to your competitor.
@@AntiVaganza Agreed and Francesco Bruni couldn't have easily faked how he appeared to take the loss. That would require good acting skills.
That Italian engineer who climbed down into the hull to fix the foil arm looked suspiciously like the crane operator who dropped the Kiwi boat!! 😮
ETNZ just hold my beer
I think that altitude data would be REALLY interesting given the seeming effect that different sea states seem to be having on different teams. I'm sure everyone to some extent is trying to rely on ground effect, but it clearly (to my eye) looks like some teams generally run a vertically higher mode than others given who has more and who has less foil tip ventilation. Prada has always seemed to run really low to me.
If ETNZ did change foils without following the process for a competitor in the round-robin, what would be the impact? they are not racing for points anyway so couldn't they change what they please and just be disqualified from the round robin - but continue to race anyway and are still set up fine for the cup defence in October?
If they knew that etnz changed their foil after the Barcelona Spain company drop the boat by 20ft onto the ground, then why the American cup let them race?? Making and excuses won't fixes anything.. but to stop them racing because etnz Taihoro is flying out in the ocean and beating every other boats.
The impact would be the ability to test another set of foils against the challengers to determine what foil generally works best. The more foils they can test in real race conditions the more prepared they will be in the finals. It's a R&D advantage (where R = race)
@@jamesaron1967 yes exactly, a benefit for ETNZ to do this, but I don't see any consequences in the rules. The round-robin for ETNZ was not scored and has no bearing on the cup defence so potentially they are deliberately breaking a rule here that the challenges must adhere to.
@@captain-hooked They're only breaking a rule if they swapped foils without undergoing the necessary notification period or if they faked damaging their boat that would have been the only open door for a foil swap. I don't see evidence for that but you're right about this round of races having no bearing on NZ for the AC.
I too think the boats are pretty close in terms of performance, can’t wait to see some back to back races of Ineos vs LRP.
Do you think they'll chose LRP in the semis?
To me, when I’m watching Ineos race now, they look like their rig is much more powered up than anyone else. They seem to have oodles of power to keep going through the light stuff and downwind. they’re turning that power into pure speed. I don’t know what they’ve done to their rig, but it’s definitely more powered up than other boats from my opinion.
Thanks Mozzy. Great review
Thank you for your video's, it's always nice to have people trying to look into these things cos the teams are not so generous with the insight info, which is quite enoying. I have two questions thow; Does the public also have access to the virtual eye video's ? And how do the 'semi's' work? The first one chooses it's opponent for the whole series? Why do the 4 boats just don't race all against each other as in the first round?
Virtual eye can be found on the AC website under racing: www.americascup.com/advanced-dashboard
INEOS pick their opponent for the semi final then the other two teams match. It's first to five wins. Then the final is first to 7 (like the Cup match itself).
I think they move to 1v1 elimination races as it allows the teams to learn each other and test in a range of conditions. Also the double round robin format without ETNZ or Orient express would be pretty short with limited races to find a true winner (just my opinion)
Thank you for your reply. I'm glad with the Virtual Eye I was realy curious to see how GBR did it in the two last races at the start. They were realy fast at the start, good on them. Im not sure i got your point realy well concerning the semi finals. For me there should be a semi final (4 boats) but without choosing an opponent, just sail a kind of RR3 and then RR4 as a final. Where is the glory as best team to beat the 'weakest' team and to end up against the second strongest in the final anyways; I mean in this actual chosen system. This is just my oppinion. Cheers from Belgium.
Comes down to the sailors now. ETNZ have the best again.
No we don’t
@@TheEnzedone Who do you reckon are better?
I've been paying attention
I think that if the French had been in the water 2-3 weeks earlier, they would be among the top teams now
Make that two or three year's earlier
2-3 weeks hardly makes a difference in training on these yachts. They were simply too late for the party and when they did arrive, trained too few hours. Too little experience on their boat and that is very unfortunate.
Agreed
The comments in the official AC channel concerning INEOS when _Britannia_ was launched and commenced trials were scathing, to say the least. So much in fact that one day I was fed up with seeing them and posted a comment asking why all the loathing for INEOS? I couldn't comprehend it. A little later the first recon disclosing the teams' boat speeds revealed that INEOS was clocked fastest one training day. It was generally ignored. People continued commenting on how slow INEOS appeared in every video, and I kept reminding them about the recon report. This continued until the recon officially ended, and as a consequence so did all the comments. Fast forward to today... I hate to tell you all ITYS, but, I kinda did.
I agree. There's been a lot of 'chat' based on what the boat looked like and not what it was actually doing. I also think that the sailing team have improved massively over this series - it was a wonder to watch them round the race course.
I saw (and made) a couple of comments about INEOS's lack of VMG (different from outright speed), low wind reliability/manoeuvrability and absence of a competitive 'high mode'. At the time, those comments were fair but the last two days of racing have shown improvement in all areas, and also a previously unseen (in race conditions) performance strength in the higher wind range. It looks like a more complete, tuned package, which is being sailed better, and not dropping 75M most races due to unforced errors as was the case earlier on. The early results did flatter INEOS (bear in mind that two competitors lost races due to falling off their foils) but the later races show Britannia to be an improved version of itself. Get your emails in so we can see the data!!
People don’t like INEOS simply because of Bens attitude this and the last Americas cup. Always complaining and blaming others. Move to today he is full of smiles and on his toes. GB V NZ
@@outdoorsewingsolutions Perhaps there's some truth in what you say but I do not recall Ainslie mentioned in the negative comments I came across. It was always about the appearance of _Britannia_ and her speed relative to the other teams. Purely subjective negative statements.
There's only been one team in one race where you can categorically say there was zero sandbagging, and that was France's last race.
I wouldn't get too giddy just yet as I'm sure the Italians, Yanks & Swiss have far more tricks up their sleeves, and as for the Kiwis, we've no idea whatsoever apart from they'll be much, much stronger!!
Why arent they showing wind speed and direction on the coverage?
They show TWS and VMG occasionally but I would prefer to see VMG as normal and boat speed occasionally. Trouble is, the media show stats for the general public rather than sailors. I wonder what the ratio of general public/sailors really is?
thanks for the great insights once again. I like Ian Williams idea. I think it carries a lot of merit for INEOS to choose LR and not give them the chance to improve while racing another team. One way or the other, INEOS will be facing them, so better to get it out of the way while they seem vulnerable.
Watching the RR racing it seems as if LR started out really strong. But while the other teams are constantly finding improvments LR is not so much and thus the other teams are beating them. Did LR peak to early!?!?
The good teams have learned to sail their boat so now we are moving to conventional match racing, win the start, cover and your 75% sure of a win.
Agreed - the `Ben Factor` is now coming into play, and the others may be a touch concerned...
Unless there's a lot of sandbagging going on, which is where I'd put my money.
@@jamesbong4928 That's my suspicion with LR. When Spithill was asked his thoughts on the defeat to Ineos after the race when he said their only goal was only 'was to get to the semis 'I could almost sense him holding back his other thought...... 'and not to show your hand too early'
@@davidsinclair6425 I'd be very surprised if the other 5 teams weren't doing exactly the same thing.
Given the watts pumped out by the cyclors throughout the round robin, I think Britannia will need to assess the condition and recovery of theirs. Also, they seem to have a speed advantage in light conditions, so the weather forecast becomes more important?. So I guess, Britannia's choice of opponents will very much depend on these factors.
If INEOS have the courage of their commitment to the end game, they'd choose the second strongest challenger besides themselves (or even, if they were supremely courageous, the strongest) in order to have the best chance of matching or overmatching the defender. The second option would give them very high level competition for both the semis and the finals ( the latter, because the winner from the other pair in the semis would, by then, be more race-hardened than if INEOS had chosen to meet them earlier per option 1)
Email sent for you. Keep up the interesting reports😊
I think that Ineos will choose their opponent based on relative expected performance in 2 weeks time in the final. Right now they are able to beat Luna Rossa, but what will be the situation in 2 weeks? If Ineos has only few/minor improvement to bring and if they think that the Italians have still plenty of speed up their sleeves, than it is better to face them as soon as possible. If they think that the situation will evolve in their favor (if they think that the Italians are pretty much at their best now) then it is better to choose Alinghi or AM that looks a little bit like an empty corps having lost momentum.
Does anyone know where the data can be found that is used to make those graphs?
If I recall correctly Mozzy doesn't do them himself, someone else scrapes it from behind the scenes and provides Mozzy with them. I would be interested in playing around with the raw data to compare VMG over different TWSs. If anyone knows where the public data is, please let me know!
Done!
ETNZ are still very firm favourites.
As a Brit, I'd still be putting my money on ETNZ.
Interesting that Peter Burling when interviewed after their last race thought they were at "about 5 out of 10" !
There is only one objective in the semi and that is get to the final. On that basis choose the weakest opponent - Alinghi
But they will have to beat LR at some point to get to the main event. Might be better for INEOS to take on LR next while INEOS are on the up and could have a slight psychological advantage after yesterday's win. INEOS won't learn much beating Alinghi but LR will have a massive opportunity to tune up taking on AM in tough racing. In which case there will be only one winner in the final.
@@timmedcalf1357they Ineos ,and LR can only meet each other in the finals !!
@@robertwoodroffe123 No, INEOS now choose who they meet in the semi finals. They have a free choice so could take Luna Rosa next. Here is the wording from the AC's own website: For INEOS Britannia, by finishing top amongst the Challengers, they now hold all the aces and can select both their opponent and the side of entry for their first race. Who they pick, be it the Italians, Americans or Swiss, they can be sure of a blockbuster battle where the first to win five races will secure a spot in the Louis Vuitton Cup Final.
I think LR is the more developed package and has less room for improvement in the future so I’d be less worried about knocking them out in the semis? I’d get rid of AM or Alinghi now. Decision might be based on wind projections for next week but INEOS must be feeling they could pick anyone and have a great chance of winning right now.
@@timmedcalf1357 why not pick AM? Tune up against them and then face LR if they haven't learnt as much from alinghi. Means you get to face opponents of increasing difficulty while maximising learning. Marginal gains, but everything counts
I can't figure out how to download raw data of races. I just can see graphs on the recorded simulations....
If Ineos choose Alinghi you would imagine the competition wouldnt be as good I think they wouldn't learn as much as competing against a harder rival and therefore be less prepared for the next stage.
I wonder about Alinghi's sandbagging exploits though...
Organisers are sometimes a bit wary of making a team's advantage too public, too early. In the VOR, DFRT discovered a certain amount of cant on the keel gave then a significant speed advantage (after hours, days & weeks of practice) other teams hadn't learned. VOR shared this with other teams removing the advantage that har work had learned in just a blink. Naturally the team were not impressed.
I think Ineos will choose Luna Rossa in the semis, reasoning that the sooner they race them the better, because if they don't meet them in the semis they are likely to meet a more honed LR in the finals.
yes ..your right ..I was thinking DONT GIVE THEM ANY TIME TO UPGRADE make them do it on the fly..and face them now!
If they want to win the Am Cup rather than just the LV, there's a strong case for meeting the strongest competitor last. There's also a strong case for meeting the second strongest (after LR) in the semis, rather than the bunny of the fleet. Other rationales are also defensible... But I think meeting the bunny in the semis is actually the worst option, assuming the Am Cup is the focus.
@@Gottenhimfella but is it a sandbagging bunny? 🤔
Email sent, lets get that data released.... I miss the boat on boat foil cant angle comparisons from the last cup.
Definitely chose Alinghi to get more time for development before facing I assume the Italians. However, American Magic looks vulnerable to me. Mozzy pointed out the potential lack of oil and they also suffer dropping off their foils more easily and seem more prone to mistakes. However, I’d still choose Alinghi.
I think you’ll find they will choose Alinghi.
Could we be show a visual of how the air is disturbed by the lead boat and how they judge how to use that in a race. Thank you
Virtual Eye provided all the graphics for the 36th America's Cup, including a disturbed air visual. AC37 has more players involved, with WindSight IQ helping viewers and commentators understand wind patterns, team tactics, and optimal routes. Virtual Eye provides visualisations for the racetrack and the positions of the boats. Seems to me it was better last time. Virtual Eye is a little Kiwi company, whereas WindSight IQ has been developed by Capgemini; you'd guess they've splashed plenty of cash around to get their name up in lights.
And plus, most of the French team are actually French. Which i belive this helps with team cohesion, experience with one another, trust, terminology, etc.
IMO INEOS sailed better then Luna Rossa today, controlling every step of the race from the start, but drawing conclusions is a bit premature, as there are tactics and disguises at play when you already safeguarded your next round place.
You might want to see what happens when you are behind, or in a breeze disadvantaged position in the race, and you may want to quantify how much you can lose and when you can gain in different wind conditions. It is all more useful data then just sailing away and forget about your competitor, because by comparing your performances you have, by now, nothing to lose and everything to gain and collect. LR "might" be checking "what if", now then its inconsequential over what appears to be the strongest competitor, in the next stages of the race, when they still have to earn the winning tickets. It is also about who you want to face in the next round.
I think in the next Round we will see how the teams actually intend to sail and what their true potential is when the Kiwis won't be able to draw any direct data from what is happening on the course.
It seems like a fair consideration to me...
I agree, Luna Rossa was a disaster yesterday. My impression is that there was only one boat racing yesterday, the other was doing something else and didn't stand a chance. Did anyone notice the tone of the conversation on board Luna Rossa? Hopefully I'm wrong (it happens very often 😁)
Ineos is faster. Faster tacks, faster speed in up and down winds. But LR will show a new upgrade saturday, it's like F1. Will see who spent those 200mln better..
Funny how Allinghi 'suddenly' turned it on in two consecutive races when they were lagging at the bottom of the table...
I'd be flabbergasted if any team has shown anything of their true speed tbh, Kiwis included.
As far as the Louis Vuitton cup regatta where the defender is competing on a non points basis only in the round robin... Do those rules regarding the 120 hours apply to the defender or are they allowed to change foils?
They do apply yes
Yeah, Nah! I haven't seen anything out there yet from the challengers to suggest we should be concern. Dalts just showing you guys what he wants you to see lol. They're just there to get race fit and gauge everyone else. It's really playing into ETNZ hands like the previous cup.
Careful Mozzy your crush on LR is beginning to show 😂
Everybody is a LR fan. Even if they say they're not, they are LR fans. -Sebastian Vettel if he were a sailor, probably
Don't know about that, I thought the shirt colour scheme was a nod to Ineos.
Anyone who is a fan of close competition and a chance for a new defender has a crush on any challenger that does well.
You on the other hand, is full blown team Ineos. Good for you on the latest improvement.
Depending on who you ask in this comment section, Mozzy has a crush on Ineos, LR, Magic or the Kiwis. You will find people who are dead sure they see bias in him. So, thanks for being another one that proves to me how admirably a job he does at actually just reporting what he sees.
Actually, a very good reporter - or supporter - can be a fan of a team and stay levelheaded and humble. Just not many "real fans" can do it, but good reporters can. They pack away their bias or become even harsher on "their" team to make up for it. Or they declare it fully. Either way works for me.
@@lucapianist67 Nonsense.
The beauty of this channel is that there is no bias towards anyone, just fair and balanced technical analysis for everyone
Who to choose. If choose the Italians. It's either first to 5 now on the back of 011 and a breakdown or it's a longer match once they have had time to settle. Keep the pressure on the strongest opponent and take them on early!
Now that the French are out of the cup, does the AC37 protocol allow them to practice race with ETNZ? It would provide great experience for the French who really needed another month in their boat ahead of the racing, more practice and race data to learn and unlock more from their boat ahead of future AC design decisions being made, and of course for ETNZ, invaluable race practice and testing against a quick boat
No they can't, unless a practice day is organised by America's Cup Events and regatta director Iain Murray. There are none planned
@@MozzySails an oversight by ETNZ? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall Oracle USA practicing with the Japanese Team ahead of the AC finals in AC35 which would be hugely beneficial to the defender
INEOS are sailing very nicely and likely learn more from facing Magic than Alinghi next. Luna Rossa probably feel confident against any contenders apart from Britannia. Magic though, perhaps struggling with the implications of their design/configuration, might be due to unlock improvements. A wounded Slingsby/Goodison combo are not to be underestimated.
I'm hoping American Magic can pull it together. It seems like they are just a bit of a mess. When it works, that boat seems to kick butt, but too often it's not working. I think they benched two of their cyclors for one reason or another because the day after the shock loss to the Swiss, they only switched two cyclors instead of the full crew between races.
I think they also are not doing "the best job" of executing tacks (could be a boat problem, could be a crew problem), while simultaneously not doing the best job of minimizing the number of manuevers that they use to get down the course. Which all means that they are trying to tack a lot and also losing a lot of speed in each of those tacks.
If none of these things are boat problems and Patriot does in fact have a high performance ceiling, then they could most likely find some hidden performance from just cleaning everything up. However, if Patriot is actually contributing to the issues (ie it doesn't tack well or just isn't as fast in a straight line as hoped), then they might be toast.
@@JMurph2015 Slingsby's prominence atop the heap in SailGP says that he's likely motivated to find a way & may relish having a few levers to try to pull because it is not 1-design. Having Luna Rossa initially sailing well, then INEOS finding improvement, before Patriot getting it together would be a pretty remarkable sequence of events for the regatta. If it is a good contest, I don't care who wins. Another regatta or 2 might help syndicates optimise their set up & gain more insight over what they do. Perhaps that they are so normalised to 1-design competition, it takes some time to break out of the mentality of being alike. In the AC the differences in boat design may mean that mimicking the on-the-water tactics is not a recipe for success. Maybe at the end of the whole thing, enough people will be thinking "I wanna do that again, but don't want to wait 3 years".
Can the teams change foils before the actual AC races?
If I were Ineos I'd choose Alinghi, but not because of any particular speed advantage or the fact that they've won the least amount of races. I'd choose them because they've been the most creative and most aggressive in the pre-starts. If you can get valuable game-time in pre-starts that will give you a good advantage later in the regatta - presuming they beat them of course.
That's an interesting and plausible argument. Thanks!
(As for your last words: If they can't beat Alinghi, their chances of winning the Am Cup are negligible, so it hardly seems a risk factor worth them considering)
I can count too, why don’t you have 100,000 subscribers yet? Come on mates! 💪🏽🇺🇸
Apologies if somebody already asked this but why are the main sails seemingly double-skinned ? Is it to hide the internals perhaps, or a bunch of reasons?
it was introduced in the previous cup for several reasons:
1) Soft sails which can be hoisted make the boat easier to manage during docking than solid wing sails (see carnage at SailGP Sydney)
2) Using a twin skin and D section rotating mast you can eliminate much of the separation bubble that occurs on spars with single skins. This drastically reduces drag.
3) It means the sail makers can make money again :)
@@MozzySails okay - thank you!
Question: Do all teams still have to submit which boat equipment eg foils and sails they will use 120 hours before the start of the semi finals and finals series? Thank You.
Yes, so teams would have had to declare configuration for the semifinal just before racing yesterday
@@MozzySails I assume that is so they can each check the other teams are using Rules allowed kit. But it is a brake on the pace and feedback on new development surely? Thank you.
After the race today, the fact that the Americans blew three starts may not have changed their results? For a while they looked competitive with the Kiwis minus another start penalty for just being late.
Yeah I have a sneaky feeling that both the US and Swiss will 'suddenly' find a load of speed from somewhere 😉
If I were NEOS, will choose Alinghi, no doubt about that.
The round robins (and prelims) were very much fraught with doubt in my opinion, I doubt very much if anyone has shown anywhere near their full hand.
The new foils have been waiting in NZ. No surprises there.
AC is about making the boat go faster once there and constant tweaking. ETNZ still got a lot up there sleeve they will be a few clicks faster as they always in the past
I can't see any more hidden speed in the Luna Rossa boat.... But can anyone else? I recall they got a lot faster in Auckland after the round robins - before the LV final. I'm interested to see what they show now. But my question...mainsails. Do we think that is a good place to bury performance gains? It must be the hardest thing for the opposition to evaluate.
Agree on both points. I think INEOS have a fast foil and not sure others can do much there. Interesting on the inside tack channel INEOS were saying their sail team were desperate to get stuck into next improvements and were annoyed the race off lost them some time there 😀. I think sails could be the big unknown - I think NZ are expecting their “race sails” quite soon?
I wouldn't be counting out the Yanks or Swiss just yet either!!
Ineos showed it’s potential in the race a few days ago vs the French
They incurred not one but two penalties yet easily caught up to the French & comfortably won that’s a team & package that know they can win
If ETNZ don’t win then I’ll support Ineos largely because ETNZ & Ineos are the only true local nationality team members at the current top level
The challenging teams are only now catching up to ETNZ in speed. We have the luxury of getting even more R&D time and speed from the boat , while the challengers have to race and focus on that . Come the big dance we will be considerably faster .
That's the defender advantage for you, although apart from France's last race I doubt if anyone has shown anywhere near their full hand as yet.
As a kiwi what I find missing from this time round is jimmy Spithill isn’t being a dick. The teams seem all great problem and seems a very good spirit to the competition. Contrast with the hideous Dennis Connor of the past.
I personally think JS had stopped being a dick by the time of the 2017 Cup, and even prior to that, much of what was labelled "dick moves" on his part were simple confidence, which proved to be amply justified. I've always felt that a strong Aussie accent tends to make even quite reasonable people sound rather dickish....
The culture of the high profile teams on SailGP was quite good from its inception, but has become (I reckon) quite admirable in the last few seasons, and because the personnel carry over to AC to such an extent, it seems to me it has lifted all boats. Even Ainslie is showing flashes of statesmanlike composure and maturity.
As an exception to the carry-over, I have to confess Alinghi seem like fantastically good sports (which had arguably not previously been a notable feature of the team culture).
Finally I think TNZ have made some important and in some cases almost magnanimous changes which have moved the AC culture in a more open direction, such as sharing of data, fixing the ridiculous espionage arms race, and selling (at realistic prices) working examples of their tech and design prowess (simulation software, AC40s for all, and 1x AC72)
Although shortly after the sail off JS did say he was looking forward to racing American Magic on the weekend .... yeah, still a dick! 🤣
For the semi-final I think INEOS picks Alinghi which leaves Luna Rosa with AM. Keep in mind the semi-final is first to 5 points to win which is a rather short format ripe for chaos.
I didn't think best of 9 was so bad tbh, but judging by the sandbagging that inevitably goes on, I haven't a clue who'd be the favourable opponent.
How many foil wing changes are allowed before you start from the pits? On a more serious note is their a reluctance to give the data. I was looking at one race and they said in the recap they said they would see what went wrong for one boat in leg 4 but that leg was missed out completely in the recap.
One thing you haven’t discussed much is the starting software and the time on distance simulation. I think Britannia must have had upgrades during the series, as their starts have improved a lot. I’ve also been surprised by how often boats are getting trapped in the disturbed air of competitors and trying to do low speed starting maneuvers in dirty air. Even as an amateur on a displacement boat I’d avoid that. It seems odd to me that there aren’t more boats trying to lock out the ‘boat’ end of the line with layline starts on starboard and simple time on distance to the line to prevent high-speed starts from above the line. Any thoughts why a simple on the wind start isn’t favoured to counter the high-speed along dive around the right hand end?
really good point. Do you watch the INEOS post race analysis? In one of these they mentioned they had updated the yacht performance polars within the race management software & tactical aid (one design system). I think this has helped iron out some of the errors in starting and time to kill calculations
What benefit are there from different designs of wing arm between port and starboard ?
Generally you will want a foil which can do a high mode and cope at ow speeds on port foil (starboard tack) for the prestart. Then a faster foil on staboard side for port tack
I’d pick to go against Luna Rossa in the semi finals. Would be great to dispatch them before they get stronger. It’s likely they would be again then in the final anyway. Risk is that American Magic and Alinghi catch up but that’s the gamble.
Ineos Britannia seem on an upward projectory and they can really concentrate on their starts and pace of the boat racing Alinghi before facing Luna Rossa in the final.
Do you think there could ever be FLEET RACING in the Americas Cup ?
Right now (before the French go home) , and in between the LV cup imagine all teams racing in something similar to Sail GP ! Wouldn’t that be a bit more dynamic ? Maybe an opportunity for a brewer/ watchmaker sponsored event .
Your thoughts…
mozzy on the official AC channel pleaseee
The pick might be weather dependent? If its top end surely you'd go for LR?
INEOS built a boat for August/September. ETNZ / Luna Rossa built a boat for October. Can’t see INEOS feature in the finals of the AC!
I can, which is a 180 degree turnaround form the pre-match. They have some serious improvements on that boat. They are pointing waaaaaaaaaaaay better. Low speed has improved rapidly.
If the others don’t improve INEOS will be in the final, Jesus I can’t believe I just said that.
@@TheEnzedone Yep, you said it!
I agree, I love this regatta. LR have looked scary good and very consistent standing out to me. But when I read this headline with ineos as favorite, I just thought, have I missed something?? Good luck ineos but I just don't see it from the results on race day. Go the kiwis for AC!
Is INEOS faster than three days ago yet OR/AND LR slower than they used to, in your opinion?
Hi, just living this chan: boosting the excitement with the technical insights, so thanks! Where can I look at the data you show (I need to learn what it all means as I’m certain I don’t really understand what the shape of those ‘blobs mean, although I can tell what the horizontal line at the widest part of the waist means - I think 😅). Anybody help with a url or a name or whatever please? PS: Have emailed as requested!!!🎉
Thanks for emailing.
The data can be obtained raw in the race review files: ac37noticeboard.acofficials.org/racing-rules-umpires/race-review-files
Or ERDB has done really good work with plots and visualisation here: sites.google.com/view/ac37racedata/home
The blobby diagrams in the "Straight line foiling performance" section on the "AC37 Race Data" detail pages are violin plots, showing the statistical distribution of the data. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_plot. Looks like the violins are overlain with quartiles.
For the Tacks and Jibes sections, I guess the solid lines are summaries of the dotted detail lines. I don't know if they are means or medians.
Regarding Brit's choice, how does selecting the Swiss help you prepare for the Kiwis? You need to keep getting push to get to the level needed to remove the Cup.
any goss on whether FR will become training partners with NZ? Would make a lotta sense: identical hull form means great potential for A-B testing.