@@TheVenomologyPlay Star Rail to experience that cause I don't know how they can apply that on Genshin Impact cause the rng frustration is quadruple imo cause I already play Honkai Star Rail where I have two different artifact domain to farm normal 4 piece set and 2 extra artifact call planar and link rope inside another domain.You know what the best part of this.Both of this domain uses resin or trailblazer power in Honkai Star Rail.Awesome man
The elements have to focus on damage, because the only way in which this game increases difficulty is shoving more HP into an enemy. Meaning any other thing you give them aside from raw damage or damage amp is worthless. So unless Genshin does a drastic overhaul in the way in which they do “hard” content (they won’t) damage will be all that matters.
Well abyss herald and lector are exist and what they make hard to deal with is their element shield mechanism so it's not always about damage, but unfortunately many people found it very annoying (me included lol)
I mean honestly it felt like they kinda tried to do that in some recent abysses. Like with the consecrated beasts that hit like trucks. Or the tripple heralds that chain freeze you (especially when you bring hydro). The problem is that defensive units mostly lack in damage as a result. And they definitely didn't reduce the hp as a trade-off for the bigger damage. Rather they said "just gid gud and lol." And honestly s way outperform any other defensive mechanism you could have. I tried to bring a team full of healers and dehya to that abyss and still managed to die. Then i brought good old national and it was easy as you have so many s and offense is the best defense anyways since you just need to get it done quickly.
Healing/tank requirements and Certain domains locking you out of a strat due to locking out certain reactions would help this game to not be overrun by dendro spam a lot. I have amazing burgeon and hyperbloom teams that i can wipe abyss in with minimal effort by comparison, but its much less fun than shreding resistances through maintaining superconduct and dmg amp buffs, and beat the enemies with someone like Eula or Itto bashing them to pieces while actively avoiding their attacks, instead of abusing s from burst animations. I get that Hoyo have to make a new lock every time and sell us the key to the new door like Nahida, but that actually completely invalidates player's attachment to characters through story content if suddenly their C4R5 main is barely usable since they cant get benefit from dendro reactions or have to too few elemental applications for meld/vape/freeze.
As long as there's a timer on combat events like spiral abyss and this latest one where you have to have 3 teams, the only thing to care about is damage.
@@herrscherkiller3432 it would be better to rid of the timer entirely, a big reason people hate getting defense and HP artifacts is that not many characters scale off of them for their damage and they're nigh worthless compared to crit and atk. Hoyo did this to themselves, but not creating difficult enough enemies to fight, and just shoving a time limit down our throats. The least they could do is make difficult content optional or give us trial characters for abyss, but because of their lack of transparency with the fanbase, all we can do is guess what the problem is, and guess how we can fix it.
@@plvto1 You realize that timer is in all their games and that's what they stand for, right? The timer is in Honkai Impact as well, and there you're getting a score based on how fast you kill the enemy, in Star Rail you have number of turns which is kinda like a timer. You can't just tell Mihoyo to get rid of their signature gameplay. If you want defensive gameplay go to League and main tanks there. Or play Clash Royale and use the Golem - Night Which deck.
@@herrscherkiller3432that is why people are keep asking for actuap end game content instead of abyss. In HSR, MOC is just a achievement for you made it instead of SU being kinda endgame (not perfect, its just a domain but fun)
I feel like the game would benefit of making survivability checks. Fights in which instead of dealing a bjillion damage, you need to survive a period of time in which the enemy is causing great damage constantly and you’ll need tanks, shielders and healers survive, and maybe the less damage you take, the more damage you deal to the boss when the window opens. That would add variety to the game and incentive the usage of characters usually left behind for not being damage dealers Edit: if they do this, it should be a separate boss or maybe even a new abyss. This idea doesn’t belong in the damage check hell of the spiral abyss
@@nathho the abyss is overall a damage check besides survivability. The enemies have a bjillion hp and deal a bjillion damage. That’s not what i said. Doing both at the same time is asking for things to go wrong. A survivability check shouldn’t have a timer that limits how long you have a creature that you need to survive, that’s not what i suggested, that’s a whole other thing
@@nicolrb2210 to do a survivability check you need to use characters that focus on shielding and healing. They usually don't deal a lot of damage. If you want to be stuck with the same enemy that keeps hitting you while you can't do shit besides surviving for 20 minutes, then go ahead, but I ain't rocking with that.
@nathho but at least it changes the gameplay up a bit. azhdaha is like the only really unique boss in the game cause he basically says hey you better bring a shield or you gonna have a harder time which is a good thing cause then you gotta put in that slight bit more effort into team building and makes the game a bit more interesting cause it becomes a yea I could dps race this but it would be risky or you can go really safe or just have somewhat balanced team which can give some characters a chance to shine. Example a good team to demonstrate this would be the burgeon team. If let's say alhaitham, nahida, thoma and kokomi. Right there you got a somewhat good survival and damage team and if you wanted could replace kokomi with xingqiu or yelan for bit more damage. But I don't understand why you are so against just trying a new way of playing.
i agree that the game is too focused on damage but the issue isnt the elemental reactions being too damage focused, its the content having no form of difficulty other than the dps check. the specifics of characters kits get ignored not just because the element is more important, but because traditional combat mechanics arent meta in a game purely focused on time limits. and your ideas are great in a vacuum but in genshin any limitations are just paywalls where if you have the right units combat is a joke and if you dont its virtually impossible
Permanent game content when ⁉️⁉️ (that doesn't have a stupid dps check) I say this constantly but I wish labrynth warriors was permanent it'd be an absolutely amazing addition to the game as a resin free activity to do that lets you just fight mobs and pick up their drops + other materials (reminiscent of simulated universe from honkai star rail) But no. We obviously NEEDED to be able to spectate our friends who play TCG instead, since that is apparently what is worth their hard time and effort 🤪
@@hatooniewoomy we're never getting permanent content lol, as much as it sucks the whole hoyo business model is to frustrate us into spending money and they want to funnel us genshin players into their other games
13:26 I just want to say that enemies can use the reactions against the player. Hence the chamber 1 second half on 3.7 abyss in which you could be frozen for funsies and in the worst case you could get one shotted
The problem isn't really that we can fall victim to reactions, the real problem is that we ain't balanced towards that. An example, we have characters with 16-25K HP usually but let's go to the extreme, A Nilou with every toy possible and teammates to futher boost her the highest I've seen is 86K. The first rifthound in this abyss ONE OF THE EASY ONES has 272K more than triple the HP we get with the character that gets the most, imagine what happens when we get hit with an scuffed version of a reaction, something supposed to happen to those HP thresholds not ours, those things have CRAZY amounts of stats to compensate for the lack of others, You'd think a 0 EM vape won't hit that hard but once you realize they have 14.773 ATTACK and they're level 100 you have to understand that they ain't made with reactions in mind, they have no ICD and they don't affect each other. Some people could think "oh but you have to consider the whole party stats" aight lets look at the best case scenario while dropping the DPS down the drain: 50K Zhongli + 50K Kokomi + 45K Yelan + 40K HP Hu Tao and add the 27% HP the Zhongli Shield has about 15K and the hydro resonance, would you believe me that even if you could somehow fuse them all toguether we are still barely comming near the HP of the whelp? the lowest HP monster in floor 12 has more HP that a team of combined HP built characters, there are 10 in total... There's a single difference between us an enemies besides damage, we can dodge and the ICDless heralds go against that with every fiber of their being, that's why that abyss is horrible, not because it's hard but because it's unfair, Consecrated beast being able to one shot us is something that isn't new, if you go today against 4 basic ruin guards you'll get killed in a barrage of missiles, the reason they are "bad" isn't the damage and the reactions, it's because they have terrible hit boxes and dodging them perfectly is a must, decent concept terrible execution, I enjoy fighting them because I like my games with a bit of difficulty but I can see why some think it's BS.
We had some kind of incentivised elemental matchup abyss in 3.7 and a lot of players complained lol It's not only about having the required unit of that element, but also about building the team around the unit cuz artifact farming is a pain in the ass. It can only be fun if abyss is not a time based dps check.
3.7's Spiral Abyss wasn't that much harder than previous Spiral Abysses. It was just more restrictive. With a decently built burgeon team, it was not hard at all to clear the first half of each chamber. But the problem here is that not every player has a decently built burgeon team. The strict teambuilding requirements blindsided the meta players who were vertically invested (not a lot of characters built but a lot of work put into a small number of them) and rewarded the players like me who were laterally invested (all characters have some level of investment but nobody is super powerful). So a challenge like that would reward a player like me specifically but it has demonstrably punished players who have built their characters and teams based on prior precedent. The problem with switching Genshin over to a system that requires specific elements is that characters are relatively expensive in this game. Real world money value aside, dailies give less than half a pull each day and it takes 20 to guarantee a single 4* character. Even veterans are not all expected to have a varied roster that is properly invested across the board. Contrast games like Pokémon Masters or FEH where 5*s have 7-12% and 6-8% drop rates respectively and it is easy to max out a character simply by using the resources you've gained passively. Without a massive nerf to enemies across the board, Genshin can't be that kind of game.
I totally agree with your take (for the game to "force" us to use our overshadowed units from x element like Xinyan and Beidou). The only downside i see is if it is obligatory not everyone will have said unit, especially new players. But yeah, as a first patch player, i too want character usage variety and not bench my Collei just because she isn't on par with Nahida or DMC in terms of damage or apliccation. Anyways, loved the video, keep it up my guy!
I've said it before and I stick with it: most of Genshin's gameplay issues can be traced back by the time investment necessary to build up characters. It already takes a lot of resources (and actual time due to Resin and plantlife respawn timers) to level characters. And once you finish those you need to start on relic farming of which 95% feels like garbage and can take months to feel like a build is complete (usable takes less time, but still too much). And that's for 1 character. now you need to raise a whole team, then you need to raise 2 teams. That's a lot of resources and time for a functional roster. And since it takes that much time, players are less willing to experiment or use "lower" tier units or truly expand their roster. And thus Mihoyo can't design content that requires a flexible roster, because most of the playerbase will be unable to complete that content if they haven't raised those units. If the time to raise a unit was reduced, players would have more time to actually try different units and then content could be balanced around a divers medium invested roster. As opposed to today's highter invested small roster. In that same vein all difficult content is also balanced around players have 2, maybe 3 teams at a usable level. So making certain bosses or stages too niche will anger players who haven't taken the time to raise those specific units. Thus the only difficulty changes are HP and timer, or to make specific enemies more mechanically engaging. Oh But Genshin is also a mobile game so it can't be too mechanically intense or that playerbase will leave. More HP and a Timer it is.
They could just do what they did with this fighting event, no repeats and rewards that ain't really that good. The timer is the biggest problem, I'm sure that a player playing defensively could finish any battle this game offers but when the condition is finish fast all the time it kills the chance of playing a loooooot of characters and throws the originality out the window, I have a pretty competent Qiqi, but why would I play her over my Eula? why her over my Raiden or Nahida? that's the thing the latter two are faster.
Every new character that comes outs value has been attributed to how well they apply their element. I’m hoping Fontaine will change this with pnemua and ouisa
I wouldn't say so. Take buffers like faruzan, exploration characters like kirara or dps' like tighnari. They don't apply their element THAT well but still find use for what they were intended to do.
Not really some characters have problems way beyond than elemental applications. Also Bennet doesn't have good elemental application but yet he is regarded as a great character .
Leaks show Ousia and Pneuma are similar to using the right elements on the Consecrated Beasts' crystals. It makes stunning them a lot easier, but you can still defeat them by brute force.
and they would be right, genshin is a gacha game, people can't get all the units hoyo wants them to use without spending or potentialy not getting the units they find fun
And the freaking relics, unless they can give us a way to actually have usable relics without no life farming (they won't cuz SR launched with the same system), I played starting Inazuma and my Raiden Relics are still Krap.
The only issue with trying to push more content that requires specific elements is that it’s a gacha game and unless they have like four characters for each roll for each element for each weapon type then no one would have what they need to play I do wish it wasn’t all damage and we had some healing or interruption resistance or any reason to use an element that wasn’t forced
6:36 ...Girl your delulu level is at all time high. SINCE WHEN DO PYRO CHARACTERS FOCUS ON DOING ONE BIG BURST HIT and do nothing else after that 😭 Every single Pyro character focuses on doing periodic Pyro damage. Even Bennett does when you get his C6 although he is still used for his skill spam. 8:06 ... COMPETING WITH WHO?!!!! DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW KEQING AND CYNO TEAMS ARE STRUCTURED?! 9:24 imagine being mad that people can get a really cheap and VERY STRONG CHARACTER at C0 13:15 I AM NOW 100% CERTAIN YOU DO NOT PLAY THIS GAME 14:04 PREVENTING YOU FROM USING WHAT... Girl, get out
Every time this dude drops a video i'm like "oh shit here we go again" because he has so many bad takes and ideas 💀💀 but it's okay because he sounds smart ❤❤❤❤
Omg I didn't notice ! Cyno and Keqing compete with each other ? Doesn't he notice that both have drastically different teams due to their playstyle and Cyno focus quickbloom while Keqing focus on agreevate . Also I don't if it's true isn't like not good on dendro reactions ? Like yeah in a specific team that contains Nahida and Xinque because they can provide enough application for Ei to not screw over . But in other teams (especially aggravate) doesn't she perform worse ?
The issue is simple, it's the fact that there's only one endgame objective: completing the abyss. And abyss is simply a DPS check for the most part, it's a flaw inherent to its system of killing all enemies in a limited timeframe. It's incredibly dumb and it's what is causing most problems with mihoyo having to do everything in its power to avoid powercreep. It's how we end up getting characters with nigh useless kits like Dehya because the focus of all character tends to be simply one, a DPS countdown challenge.
yeah copium here, but since the game & its story being planned for 7 years (and also how star Rail have actualy end game pls give me SU overhere) , Im coping that there end game exists and has been planned its just not the right time/place/nations? Hard coping we have waves fighting contents in Natlan with Pyro god being God of Wars. Actual End game will comes, its just frustating that they won't tell us that's its planned or when it will come out or why it's not here sooner.
The problem for Abyss is that it's only made of tough enemies that you have to brute-force them, because time is running out. The Timer ruins the thing. It would actually be better if the condition for stars were DMG amount, so at least every one would pick burst DPS, and make that damn Crystal you have to protect sometimes less squishy. Timers ain't bad, but could be used more as "Survive for 10 minutes" while all sorts of bosses are thrown at you, so dodging and tanking and healing, while damaging to not let too many enemies on the field, would be fun. One of the combat events I had so much fun was to fight that giant robot from sumeru, that was buffed a lot by me. All my team died save for Yelan and a very low HP Nahida. I had to dodge all attacks using Yelan's E while aiming at the robot's weak points, rush E towards it, then quickly make Nahida Dance Dance Revolution the robot, and retreat. I had an absolute blast, but I spend almost 20 minutes defeating it, and I felt EXHILARATED. I never had so much fun with a Genshin Boss since the first time I fought Signora without a proper team.
@@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person I agree 100%. I feel like different "gamemode" types in the abyss would mix up the meta in a much better way. Sadly, it feels like hoyo is only putting in the bare minimum amount of effort in maintaining the abyss
Abyss fundamentally sucks as and endgame content, it has zero replayability, you either can’t do it or do it once and never touch it again. Endgame contents are not defined by difficulty but by replayability. Honestly, they just need to add an infinite hp dummy for us and a lot of people would be content for a while.
On the flip side, Genshin really is a game that taps into character appeal A big goal seems to be making sure ppl don't get the feeling that their favorite character is bad That means minimizing any potential "I can't use this character here"
Also just the fact that they pretty much baby the game to a point of anything outside of abyss dies immediately and most events either completely remove all your characters mechanics or just again baby modes players
This is nearlly impossible to do. Because the game lays on a balance, like you said, every caracter has a unique kit that makes it useable for different thing even when there's some look a like (hello Xinqyu and Yelan). And the game is supposed to be playable with every single of those caracter (less and less nowaday actually). And the risk of what you're asking is that every caracter become unskipable and necessary to your box. Making fall drasticlly the feeling of playing with the caracter that you like. There already is a necessity to have a bit of everything in your box in the game rightnow (i know mine lacks a Pyro unit a lot, i only have Ayaka as cryo for now) because ther's already is a order of wich element is strong against wich element. But it is still possible to complete the game using other ways as i have 36star in abyss in this update and the last one, and 34star since a loooong time while not having pyro caracter properly built, and if i cannot keep going in the game because i haven't the right pyro caracter, not caring about if i WANTED this caracter to beging with, then i'll just end up quitting it. Don't know if i made myself clear cause it's not my maternal languages but to conclude, making elements a little bit more special that they already are by the way they're doing dps might be a good thing, but adding up a way too much of speciallity and everyone them will become in one way or another, a necessity. Wich would be a bad thing in Genshin Impact unlike a Pokemon Game, because it is a gasha. And the game will require to whale money much more that it already does. This is a never ending cycle, some game design choices in Genshin might need improvement but doing so might unballance the game in another way and lead to some other neccessity of improvement...that might lead to even more game design leaking feature and so on. There's a saying existing in France wich says "Best is the ennemy of the good". Wich is a little odd because French people used to seek improvement in every way possible for their environnement. But it might be right cause after acheving it's prime and being the greatest country to live in on the only known planet with life, we're going down really hard and really fast... Anyway, their is a lot of thing that needs improvement in Genshin Impact and that are way less subject of breaking the game's balance that the really core gameplay design of the game so i'd rather wait for those to come first. For security reasons. Congrats for reading until the end, here's a virtual hug.
The problem is that, in general, damage will always be the ruler of the meta in both gacha-based games, and games as a whole. Even if there are things that don't do damage, the question becomes "How do those help me facilitate more damage?" Even in the case of defensive reactions, their usefulness would be in letting you get away with less healing/shielding, and thus dealing more damage. And in the case of non-outright damage reactions, like the buffing reaction concept you said, it would be directly compared with the damaging reactions when it comes to performance. It's a distinction without a difference. I think we are far more likely to see characters that can make reactions do additional things that will make reactions more tactically interesting, rather than seeing reactions themselves change. (Which, of course, means that old characters probably won't get helped by this unless they have good synergy with the new ones) And while the obvious choice that comes to mind first is Nilou, that's not really the sort of thing I was thinking of. I was more thinking of characters like Sayu, adding healing onto Swirl. (Or a certain upcoming Cryo claymore and his interaction with a specific Cryo reaction)
@@hatooniewoomy He's probably going to fall into the same boat as Kaveh/Heizou. Questionable performance, as he's a 4* on-field DPS (and a Cryo/Physical one, at that), but undoubtedly fun. I'd sure love to be wrong, though!
To counter your comment, in FGO for example, there are different kinds of DPS characters and different kinds of supports where they're all good but they're used in different content, some work in specific fights while others don't and vice versa. For example there are characters that rely on critting and supports that help you crit, those would work best in fights against only one enemy/boss, on the other hand there are farmers that don't work at all against bosses but work well against multiple enemies by being able to use their ultimates consecutively. The issue with Genshin is that all of the content in the game and the way you use the characters is the same, every DPS does the same kind of damage under a different element and fighting one or more than one enemy is still the same thing. Essentially Hoyo has to rework the entire gameplay.
While I don't disagree, I don't think it's feasible for Genshin to implement this because the game is a gacha, and there's very few characters you can get. Like, sure, it'd be great to have content that would give you an incentive to use Dehya and Xinyan- for people who *have* Dehya and Xinyan. Everyone who doesn't have them would have to either try to power through with different units for content specifically not designed for them or just skip the content until they get lucky on a pull. When I started playing Genshin, it took me months to get my first Pyro character. I didn't understand anything about artifacts or how weapons worked truly, so clearing the damn third floor of the Spiral Abyss to get my Xiangling was- hard, to say the least. And, aside from Barbara, I didn't get my first Hydro character until like 4 months in, when I got Xinqiu on my first Lantern Rite. The approach of having to use specific units also ignores all the time and resources required to fully build a specific unit. Talent books take time and resin to farm, and we've all suffered the pain of trying to get good artifacts. It's just not feasible to use all your units unless you can 1) Guarantee your whole player base will have access to all needed units to complete content and 2) Lower the time and effort required to make specific units usable against difficult content.
I'd love to see a video going into detail how adding a timer to the spiral abyss has effected the entire fundamental design of the game and how people experience it. From reactions based team comps, to spending months farming for characters' "best" builds, to some players spending hours a week trying to kill some mobs just a little faster. I wonder how different the game would be if the added more win conditions to spiral abyss like protecting the monument.
I think the reason why is to encourage players to use the elements they like instead if what they need, having some elements do a certain utility means that if a boss comes along that requires you beat them using a certain element or reaction then it means that you'll be required to use character for that you don't like in order to win, think of spiral abyss where some floors have Abyss lectors which requires you to use very specific element in order to destroy their shield quickly in order to get 3 stars which doesn't feel good imagine if in the future we fight a lvl 100 Azdaha where shields are a necessity because he does too much dmg. it means that many teams just don't work and you'll have to use a shield character or multiple in order to just win
@@plvto1 Last time we had the wolf lord I beat it 36* with Nilou, Collei, DMC, and Barbara ^-^ I also beat it with Kazuha, Bennett, XL and a LV 40 Ningguang who was only there for the Geo totem puzzle.
I was running geo teams and as soon as i switched to reaction team all my struggle to clear enemies dissapeared. I just wish non reaction combs could as viable as reactions
Even in situations where certain elements are forced the things that make a character good don't real change, and often makes things worse. Elemental shields don't make characters bad at reactions better, they make them SUBSTANTIALLY worse. The best way to deal with the abyss guy with 4 elemental shields is to blast him with constant element application from xianling/bennet + xingqiu or yelan, because otherwise each shield would take like 10 seconds to break and you wouldn't be able to win in abyss. The things that make a character good are pretty much set in stone at this point, barring gimmicks like the ousa/pneuma which are only designed to push new characters that aren't actually as powerful as the characters that have been in the game since day one. Short of actually buffing them or making hyper specific and wildly overpowered artifacts, there's nothing they can do to make the bad characters good at this point.
My idea is first they should introduce more elemental resonances like Anemo with Electro boost ER and reduce stamina and cooldown, another great thing for both damage and design is obviously more off field skills and bursts which is something I’m hoping for Hydro Aether otherwise he’s just like Anemo which is nothing new.
Still feels strange that having a Cryo aura slows you down when no other element does anything similar. Also it would be cool to make characters have more consistent forms of elemental self-application, like how Barbara applies the Hydro element on yourself which can accidentally freeze you if you're afflicted with Cryo. If more characters applied elements onto themselves for longer periods of time, the enemy can take advantage of that especially via Freeze and Overloaded.
I just really, REALLY want elemental reactions to have some sort of special effects on the enemies and on the player. Examples: +When you deals Melt dmg to an enemy, after the reaction of propped, Hydro will be auto propped on the enemy too. +Whenever Superconduct/Overload/Electrocharge is propped, the enemy's defense will be reduced and the enemy is more likely to be stunt. +Have swirl to have different effects instead of just... Swirl. Have Pyro Swirl deals burn damage on top of swirl, Hydro swirl slows down the enemy and so on. Of course to balance things out, the players themselves will be affected by these reactions when they're propped, making the players taking more damage and making us actually raising our game skill. Just my personal opinion, if you're against this, I don't care :P
like Geo could literally just be a defense break element ngl, defense scaling in talents is already a thing so maybe the more defense you have the more they shred or something.
...Superconduct, Electro-Charged, and Overload already have stagger and/or debuffing effects, Swirl's utility is to spread elements around and can be used to enable or proc other reactions, the "special effects" are already there
I think we have enough varied supports for our dmg dealers. For example, zhongli might not boost dmg as much as benny boi but he makes dealing dmg way more sustainable
I remember Childe weekly boss first phase having a bonus attack when attacked with Hydro, so the idea of challenge was there, but was not developed much into the game😢
To counter your argument on differentiation, enemies have element-based resistances and element-based shields are becoming increasingly more common. There are a lot of nuances between units when you consider swapping one unit in a team to adjust to different circumstances.
content defines meta. If the content is about if you know the mech, know the fight and not too much time gated, then people will try and balance out survival and damage, but as of now ? I'm slapping full damage team, no heal needed, maybe except whenever the doggos come up
9:57 EXCELLENT POINTS! Seriously, thank you for making clear how important more genuine variety is. I should note that I have PTSD because of a sadist involved in the Genshin Impact balance team, keeping in mind that I haven't even played Genshin Impact, but I for sure will never want to play it as long as people like her are given free power. Having you deconstruct Genshin Impact's "balance" is very solid to see. Something I would like to punctuate is that I have been working on a series of comments about Kid Icarus Uprising's balance and how a remaster can be improved. And right now, I'm focusing on how Clubs can be improved and I'm finding that the bulk of them (not all of them, as I'll exclude the 3 you're probably thinking of now) could stand to innately inflict debuffs on enough given attacks, even at reduced durations and chance values compared to using the equivalent Powers, to compliment their raw power, rather than giving them yet more power. I can give a few examples of my suggestions: Skyscraper Club will get Paralysis for improved chasing ability. Black Club will get Weaken to reward consistent attacking. And Aurum Club will get Shaking to grant it the ability to do range disruption. What my point is that easier damage output capability does still need to be a uniquely useful trait for character choice rather than free of charge for basically everybody. Honestly, I thank you again for making as much clear, and I can add my own point that we want people to care about their anti-armor options because those tend to encourage the better points of the involved characters. At the same time, we can't even stop there, because Mighty Glaciers also do need to be distinct from each other too. The aforementioned Skyscraper Club in KIU is that game's definitive Mighty Glacier/Melee Tornado hybrid and we do want people to consider risk assessment instead of trying to stay away all the damn time to make cheesy MUs, which we want to check fast, but this turns out to be a superficial level when all is said and done. Skyscraper Club's character is supposed to be some technological whiz who can work as a Magic Knight, something I can absolutely get behind. My point is that even the Mighty Glaciers don't necessarily want "lolmoarpowar" but rather, they should get to work with the deeper systems even if they shouldn't be broken about it, which thankfully is not ridiculously likely to happen.
I think the problem. Is that it is too hard too build characters in Genshin. I started about 6 months ago with mostly time in but some time off. I just hit AR 50 and have 1 team built for end game. And I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on the game, can kill even bosses pretty well. But that one team took FOREVER to even get to an endgame ready level. Forcing you to build multiple characters just seems like hurting more casual players. Which are a majority of the player base at the end of the day.
With Pnemua and Ousia it's obvious that every nation from now on will have its own "elemental" interactions that comes with new characters from that nation, and characters from older nations will not have that mechanic implemented so you are forced to pull new characters even if they are ultra weak compared to Yelan or Kazuha or anyone that's considered OP.
I don't have issue with game posing us to only use specific elements, I have issue with the timer in abyss which forces us to use the highest dps ceiling team , i have issue with the lit low amount of 160 resin cap with prevents you from building a character u like, i have issue with how fked up rng is in artifacts. If these don't exist I would gladly use qiqi in abyss.
Elemental reactions either deal damage, or aid in survivability/crowd control. Problem is that SUR/CC are seldom needed. If there are any modes that focuses on CC and Survivability, then reactions like Overload will see increased usage. But there isn't any such content. Most content in genshin involves out-running the timer. So you need damage. If there was a content focused on running down the timer instead, then that would be a different story.
It would be cool if the game gave us different elemental reactions that we can choose between, or at least different effects. For example, why does Vaporize necessarily have to give that hit an extra damage boost? Maybe it can make the enemy more susceptible to damage for the next however many seconds instead, or be a transformative reaction like Electro-Charged; meanwhile Electro-Charged can also make enemies more susceptible to damage or maybe if an enemy if Electro-Charged it gives nearby characters 1 Energy every 2 seconds. Or Freeze is hard to change, but maybe we can buff the Shatter aspect since it's currently underutilized, while giving a second effect that makes enemies take more damage after being Frozen for however long.
@12:20 I also liked the last event where you needed to use 3 different teams with unique members to complete it. Made me appreciate a lot of units i usually wouldn't use in SA ..
Sometimes it baffles me how people are often worried about "being forced to build characters" when someone who happens to not like meta characters may already, or are already, facing this conundrum. Not everyone is all about camping for half a year in the Emblem domain to guarantee meta success by investing in the National trio nor are people able to guarantee Shinobu nor want to play EM-bot Raiden for Hyperbloom....among many other things. And even if Nilou is an option, she frankly has the same amount of value as Shinobu and a well-invested Thoma and only really rises up value-wise with Nahida involved (try playing Nilou without Nahida and the quality of her gameplay plummets), where frankly pulling for the latter will make any other Dendro feel like shit outside of the on-fielders and maybe the healers. 3.7 Abyss was already a good example of this happening because if you aren't dependent on your National core for the 2nd half you're in deep water, and the ones who are capable of handling the stresses of that 2nd half required a Dendro flex + National at the very least....the former which is usually best utilized by Nahida. There's also the case of enemies that are way too far apart as of late, on top of being too heavy/has backsteps that would make James Harden proud (looking at the Pyro Fatui gun cowards), almost making Kazuha a must since he also buffs damage and has an extra punching stagger in his E-skill compared to Venti's and Sucrose's that just sucks in and both are tied to their bursts. Some success may be found with the latter 2, but who buffs a shitload of Dmg% again? Look I'm not saying the point is invalid, but as someone who really couldn't give two shits about every meta unit outside of Xingqiu, Raiden, Zhongli, and to an extent Ayaka and Ganyu, Spiral Abyss is already one of the worst game modes ever even if I have been able to 36-star for quite a while now.
the game that is literally designed around doing x amount of damage in y amount of time limit incentives you to play high damage teams? no shit. on top of that elemental reactions helps you to do more damage? holy shit! who could have known! this is a combat game, you hurt things to kill things. it's naturally better to hurt things more and faster. dead content lmao.
I dont have that much experience with rpgs with advantage systems, but from the few Ive played, It gets to a point that not having someone somewhat good on the specific advantage type can pretty much make It Impossible to pass certain challenges unless youre at the super high end with some other neutral unit. Thats usually Fine, but in genshin thatd be a huge problem, specially for new-ish players since we not only dont get caracteres as frequently as other gatchas, but specially since building up a single character is so expensive (Just think about farming artifacts for a new unit on every single elemental type, not to mention leveling them and their talents, along their respective suports. We already had a situation like that when the worf lord was put in the abyss and anyone who hadnt a geo main builded up or zhongli would need to puta in their party a random unit thatd do nothing but break that shield and thus reduce the Power of their team, thatd work as a 3 chars then, and there were a Lot of complaints in there I dont see the hyperfocus in dmg as being a problem as long as the abyss is on time limitation, but id be interesterested If they changed the objective there and we had to adapt trying to get at the new objective
BTW enemies do have resistance to there elements like how the we nut has anemo resistance so the notion of "make Pyro stronger against dendro or cryo enemies" is already in the game.
I really love dendro teams and dendro characters but I don't like the design of dendro itself. I thought that dendro would be about nature, plants and environment but it is actually green energy. I thought that we could have a dendro + geo that could root enemies for example. I think that dendro cores are well designed, but as you said, dendro is about damage and damage alone.
@@harryvpn1462 Exactly. Pyro, Cryo, Electro, Anemo, Geo and Hydro skills make so much sense with the correspondent elements. But I don't feel that with Dendro
...Theres also the fact that said options just exist. if a person playing Sayu is considered a restriction and not just wanting to fully utilize a certain characters playstyle i consider that good game design Its an opinion but ive always felt like these videos are to isolated. Like theres not much effort to see what outside Vars small community Why does no one play X and the idea of X mains must be the outlier. But the metric is Abyss runs on the CN server its not a gauge of what characters are popular or what the typical Genshin player actual uses(digging around a bit its mostly just put random characters in there team) Its not possible to get data like that without raiding Hoyo's basement but the idea that players must be incentived by vertical progression is ...wrong. Even banner sales its not players not wanting X character its certain players getting C1's or C2's and whaling. If you dont give a crap about huge numbers why whale beyond getting the Base value of the character. Versus people who believe that spending that extra 250 will give them a "better Raiden" I would say the Elemental System does have nuance beyond damage its the issue of the louder individuals putting emphasis on damage. Its like Spiral Abyss Its the only metric for evaluating Power Level but is so oriented on one play style only a few characters can be considered good for that type of content In content where you want to mitigate as much damage as possibe picking up a Crystal and getting a quick shield or having weak shields in exchange for taking the damage needed is a way elements can come into play Its a form of survivability content that relies on the player being reactivate instead of just hitting an opponent. And you can basically make different variations on all the properties these elements provide outside damage
1. I think you're asking the wrong question. What I think you ask is "Is Genshin ITSELF too damage focused?" 2. A rule of thumb I follow is that "don't like, don't use" arguments are invalid until proven otherwise. (I'm sure someone will find a case where it is valid somewhere someday, but I've yet to see it happen)
I need help. I have 81 wishes atm with zero pity and no guarantee. If I get Zhongli in 4.0, will i be able to get Focalors in 4.2 😖? Honestly, my gut is telling to not risk anything and just wait until his next rerun.
As always, the problem with the idea of REQUIRING characters for certain content is how building a character is expensive. If the few characters a player has built become unusable and they need to spend months building a new team just for some content, "catching up" would be even worse than it already is. We can point out Genshin's failures of game design all we want, but at their root is the fact it's a gacha. Those mechanics are what hamstrung its potential as a game from the very beginning.
Completely disagree, in a gacha game where resources are heavily limited, I rather not be forced to spend resources on characters that are conventionally not meta, the freedom of using any characters on any enemies is what makes genshin fun, imposing limits drives away players and stretches the limited resources so much that you can’t progress in the game
I didn't appreciate it at the time, but there was a combat event a few patches back that could let you customize the difficulty (I forget the name of it), and one of the things it let you do was _choose whether or not the timer was active._ If you wanted the highest score, you needed to turn all the settings to max, but otherwise you could just crank everything up _except_ the timer and the fight would be closer to something like Monster Hunter or a Souls-like, allowing people to use their favorite characters without feeling too much like they're crippling themselves. I think being able to tweak the difficulty in Spiral Abyss would be good for everyone. Those who want to flex can go balls out with the mods, and those who don't can just tweak the settings they want for a comfortable challenge.
My ideas: Shields (Elemental) -once the shields are broken, they apply the same element of the shield to up to three different opponents (doesnt do dmg [can do dmg if a reaction is made]) Anemo + geo -similar to corrosion but can be stacked Geo + Dendro -heals small amount of HP via the form of small healing flowers (can be collected by walking over them) Cryo + dendro -a debuff in maybe atk or def
I mean, enemies already have varying resistances to damage types. It's most visible in ruin type enemies, which have very high physical resistance. Something that could help is making these values visible to players in-game in some way, for example if you engage in combat with an enemy, icons will show up near their health bar that will tell you if an enemy will take more, less or no damage from a certain type. Then you could create domains with enemies with 80% or more resistance to, for instance, all damage types except pyro to encourage you to use a pyro DPS against them.
I love your take on it, but The problem with it and my beef with the current state of the game is that you have to level up and artifact farm to make different char really work
Tbh it's not the reactions, it's the content. There's great variance in reactions the amplifying ones simply increase damage, while the transformative ones have different effects. Superconduct is a debuff, Electro-Charged also works as an AoE debuff of sorts, Overload provides stagger, Swirl spreads elements around, Freeze locks enemies into place, and Crystallize gives you a shield. The weak ones are weak because they lack the external character/artifact support that the others have gotten (Superconduct) or just plain have shit numbers (Crystallize), but that's not a problem with the lack of diversity in reaction concepts. There's also diversity in character playstyles, with a lot of variance in animations, preference towards Normal/Charged/Plunging vs. quick-swapping, melee vs. ranged, and single-target vs. AoE. Since this is a gacha game, I hesitate to support any content that requires really specific things in order to clear - this isn't Pokemon where you can reliably have a large pool of options to pick from - and would rather have a system where you can use anyone to clear hard content. The main reason the reactions feel like they're all evaluated on damage is because the hardest content in the game is a timed DPS check where challenge is introduced simply by ballooning the HP pool and introducing bosses with stupid amounts of stalling. There's definitely a place for utility like Swirl and Freeze and when it's not the entire abyss (like the last one) the shields do add some variety but for the most part it's just damage damage damage. There are of course flaws. Hydro is a bit too ubiquitous, but I chalk that up to other reactions like Superconduct and Shatter just being ignored. VV and Blizzard Strayer could be argued to be to broken. Then there's Dendro: Dendro just made everything worse and is the biggest counterargument to my point. The Quicken reaction was nice in that it's a good reaction without Hydro and doesn't always need Swirl but it's just a reskinned Vaporize/Melt. Bloom is just "stack EM, number go big", which does have its interesting aspects that mainly involve nerdy elemental gauge stuff (I do enjoy the four-element kitchen teams) but vanilla Hyperbloom's floor is just way too high. Bloom just made the entire element's roster a Dendro bot contest where Nahida is queen and everyone else fights for scraps. The Dendro reactions as a whole still have good new mechanics but are a step down from the initial ones and it was kind of forced upon us with ASIMON being in every other abyss and Freeze being nuked to the ground by bosses being everywhere on both sides of the abyss.
Type advantages can be interesting only if all players have access to all types, and it's also important that said players enjoy using the units on said types. Pneuma and Ousia mechanics can very easily force F2P and even low-spenders into using Fontaine units if they decide a boss needs Ousia to be knocked down, like the Aeonblight Drake needs a bow unit, the difference being bow units have been existing since the start of the game, while Pneuma/Ousia is going to start existing after 4.0 but is also getting implemented into the abyss in the close future. At the end of the day, Genshin is a gacha game, it relies on the fact people can't have all the units they want without spending money, or waiting for a long time, but if they're adding mechanics that force you to use a specific roster of units in the abyss, they're basically gating those people that don't have Pneuma/Ousia units out of their gameplay and primogems. Also I'd like to touch on the Baptist being "good design", which is something I very much disagree on, during the time he was on abyss, a lot of people player Bennett/XL/XQ/Nahida not because it was a good team, using Nahida makes you lose vapes because of burning, but those units were simply the best at applying their element to break the shields, while also having good motion value to kill the low health boss even without the reactions, it's the biggest example of units being used not for their gameplay or synergy, but instead for their pure elemental application.
9:36 random commenter:just don't use them xd Vars: it should be an option for player to impose additional challenge on themselves, it shouldnt be a requirement So dont use op characters... I am not really understanding your counter argument there. Even non meta characters can 36* the spiral abyss, the game isnt hard enough that you are screwed if you dont use International or double hydro hyperbloom to clear content. And later you say that the game could have more enemies or domains that forces you to bring a specific element, that would be by your own words bad design. 13:26 They already do! Have you forgotten the previous abysses? Hydro + Cryo Heralds/Abyss mages. The Electro Kairagi always accompanied by the Pyro one, the Consecrated beasts, etc. Even before 3.0 the enemies could use burning on us
Ngl i hate being forced to play a specific element. If abyss becomes sekiro with elements im not gonna play that. Fking dark souls gatcha game sounds like living hell
my favourite team comp rn for abyss is double geo double anemo for mobs. I get free elements by absorbing the attacks of the mob in kazuha's swirl, then just rapid fire pew pew with scar while cloaked in invincibility thanks to a geo shield :p
What is weapon comps also come into play? If everyone uses Catalysts, increase party wide elemental mastery and have elements last longer on enemies. If 2 uses swords and 2 uses Claymore, then increase party wide damage and increase skills damage
i feel like the first fontaine 5* we are getting could be indicative of a slight shift in meta, with lyney hyper focusing on mono element teams without causing a lack in dps, perhaps for future releases we can see more insentive for characters personal dps as opposed to reactions.
I will give you my two cents about it even though it might be a bit out of topic. 1) Super Resonance : I would add a resonance so that you can built teams with 2+2 Elements ( sort of Nilou bloom style) . You could really give to Overload or Electrocharged teams a brand new revamp with such a feature. Basically the combinations of specific elements (2+2) give you Super Resonance, on top of the normal resonance that you would get . 2) This would need to be connected with the Lore in a way. Geo needs to be saved. And you could do that through a new alliance and a new pact between the Archons. After a specific ( hypothetical) event Zhongli gets closer to the other archins forming a new bond and thus new elemental reactions. Geo + Pyro : Molten ( Higher resistance to interruption, slowing enemies , explosion dmg ) Geo + Hydro : Sand ( something that boosts hp of allies and reduces defenses of enemies) Geo + Dendro ( a whole new bloom that reacts with cryo and anemo). And so on... Actually it would be very nice if you could make a video about it.
This is kinda why I think hydro is almost too good with every element having something with it making almost every character viable for any role since by nature of hp scaling being the expectation and that being the best thing to scale by in the game it makes hydro units a jack of all trades master of all while every other element focuses on damage or cc Like legit what is the last time you have made a team that did not have any hydro in it And I don't think the enemy mentioned at the end is a good example mostly because in the over world they are to weak and die in 20 seconds or you fail and they take 2 minutes with the main problem being that most teams lack consistent application on demand without burst and the units that do attack slowly so you have to go through another phase. But in spiral abyss the boss becomes a chore since you can't build a team just around them you need to go through 2 other waves so you may not choose the best team for the boss.
Just to be "that guy", since ive been running mono geo and aggrevate teams almost every abyss Rotation the past year, i build teams without Hydro all the time^^
The implementation of this has been somehow implemented in HSR, where you do need specific element to break the toughness bar. Mind you that you could go without breaking it but it's significantly slower. However, this locks new player from the new contents if they tried the proposed way mentioned in this video. Perhaps, it is better to only do this on event only, considering the state of the game, which Genshin does try to do and do it very well.
There is a mechanics in the same that increase that matchups you talking about, which is Elemental Notes. Enemy with these elemental notes have buff & more res & different moves sets then when being disabled by removing their Buff with reactions. Fountains even gonna take it up another notchs by making the new 2 alighments that's special to Fountain only, but I heard that you can still overpower those elemental notes without using Fountain Characters, it just using Fountain characters disable their ability to rebuff themselves with elemental notes. I hope that's true since genshin been keeping a good track of not required the game pay to wins (aka you can beats floor 12 with 36s stars with only 4 stars/ not too many premium characters)
i feel like this video really missed the mark. it just kind of ignores why genshin has stuff set up the way they do, and every reason why they do not do some of these suggestions (and even the fact they have tried some of them) i think a lot of you need to just accept genshin is the type of game it is, and youre asking for it to become a completely different game
I've wanted them to shift to an element type-matchup system since nearly the very beginning being an electro main you can see the beginnings of type advantages with early game fatui harbingers and when fighting abyss mages, you can easily see this by the efficiency to break their shields: pyro->cryo->hydro->pyro electro has NEVER fit into this type-advantage system with electro affecting each of the shields in essentially the same way; and with the release of the electro abyss mage, you could see that 3 other "primary" elements essentially share the same efficiency against electro shields on electro abyss mages and electro lawachurls I feel like hoyo has missed a big opportunity to give the 4 primary elements a proper type-advantage system, where they could very easily slot in electro like: pyro->cryo->electro->hydro->pyro; and you can already see some semblance of this system against the electro fatui hammer enemies having cryo as their main weakness for their shield then anemo would be effective against all the primary elements but not itself or geo, and geo would be effective against itself and anemo, but not the primary elements; OR anemo and geo could act like dragon and fairy types in Pokemon (I've never actually played a Pokemon game so I don't understand the type advantage system well, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they work as both weakness and advantage to each-other); I'm not exactly sure how dendro would fit since I've had this idea since like 1.1 and dunno how dendro would work in this supposed system
I saw a comment somewhere in here (in the reply sections) that suggests a version of the Abyss that goes ‘how long you can survive’ mode, and I absolutely had to put it here. It’d be game changer. Especially for players whose fav character’s kit is survival based (looking at Noelle mains) Imagine a domain where you have to continuously (I don’t even know how to do it), dodge, shield, heal and rely on freeze, overload & other survival reactions like your life depends on it to win… For those who have the dodge ability of a rock (like me), characters like Baizhu or Zhongli become straight up meta 😂
In my opinion, there needs to be more elemental reactions that directly affect combat through non-damaging means. A few ideas that the community has had are things like Anemo and Geo creating small sandstorms that deal a minimal amount of damage but pull lighter enemies in like a lesser version of Kazhuha's skill, Dendro and Cryo having a reaction that reduces an enemy's elemental defense, Dendro and Anemo having a reaction that causes affected enemies to burst out in a pollen cloud that inflicts a movement and attack speed debuff, etc. One of the ones I came up with is even having Geo be able to react with itself through a unique reaction, where with enough Geo damage procs an effect similar to Zhongli's petrify occurs and makes the enemies have their attack reduced while also becoming vulnerable to and taking more damage from heavy attacks like the shatter effect from being frozen. And one of my friends came up with a reaction due to Pyro damage procs called Overheat, where the enemy would take more damage from Pyro attacks and exude a small aura that causes enemies in the aura to also receive half that Pyro vulnerability. With the game being so focused on its elements as a core part of both gameplay and story, I'm genuinely surprised MHY said they're not going to add more reactions to the game.
the thing I want is to be added a place like spyral abbys . this place dose not restrict you with time, but with challenges like beat the domein with only 3 units, only use pyro and geo , only use 3 star wepon
A possible problem with forcing the use of certain niches, such as healing or shielding is the feeling of being forced to bring a certain character niche. Right now, mono-geo is still playable, but not everyone enjoys that playstyle. I believe it is also possible to clear abyss with ANY well built character roster right now (Which motivates players to pull for those they like, not just for a niche). Forcing players to have certain restrictions other than damage would likely not reflect well on F2P players, since they would be forced to pull characters they dislike to fill the niches - something Genshin tries to avoid. Having a universal system avoids this mandate. I remember a combat event with hypostasis that required built characters of all elements, something I did not have at the time. I had to give up, which did not feel good at all. I think that type based or combo based weaknesses would fare better than a mandate which I hope Fontaine could add.
The prognosis of Geo’s future viability is almost entirely resting upon the shoulders of either Navia’s kit, or some unlikely future patch update in which Geo is reworked, likely involving a fundamental upheaval of the Crystallize reaction, or the arguably even more unlikely emergence of new Geo reactions altogether.
Seems like the way to address this is through future enemies not characters or reactions, which I think Hoyo is already starting to do. Enemies have resistance stats, and recent ones (and some older ones) like Hilichurl rogue and consecrated beasts have increased resistances to certain elemental damage types. A lot of players aren't aware of these resistances though because Hoyo doesn't mention them in detail, so the onus is on players to look them up online. Maybe introducing a gadget that lets you look at and record elemental weaknesses of enemies (thinking like Persona 5) could be an interesting way to make players more aware of some of these weaknesses. Hoyo could also have more enemies apply auras on themselves so that you have to think about what kind of reactions still work. They do this minorly with some enemies by adding elemental shields or your example of thunder manifestation. Also, maybe have more characters apply auras to themselves with their abilities so that enemies can cause reactions on players more. This might make more players consider which elements would be dangerous for them to use or how to use their own auras to cleanse enemy applied auras. I don't think that the damage focused elemental reactions need to change to do this. The one completely undamage-releated reaction you pointed out, crystallize, is notoriously the least used reaction. Changing other reactions to be defensive minded might make them as equally unused unless Hoyo stops making the hardest content in the game time restricted. However a Geo reaction overhaul with more powerful defensive upsides could be popular in the same way Zhongli is still very popular for his defensive utility despite his low damage.
You'd have to rebuild all the enemies to need things other than just pure DPS to resolve them. A simplistic example would be like abyss mage shields being more fragile to the correct element and more resilient otherwise. You could easily imagine enemies that are put into different states by different elements or slow-moving enemy attacks that can be rebuffed by attacking them and have different reactions based on what element is used; i.e. water bullets bounce back and stun the enemy if hit by Cryo, or they damage us more but generate tons of particles when hit by Electro., etc. Or anything where you benefited from reacting and using elements tactically instead of just pumping in as much damage as possible wile trying to avoid getting interrupted. But the problem with all this is, not only would you have to rebuild all the enemies in the game, you'd then have to rebuild all the characters to work with the new paradigm that's about something other than stacking up buffs to damage. You could start implementing changes with new enemies and characters, but that would create a break in the game where old characters are no good for dealing with new enemies, and new characters are less good at dealing with old enemies. That's the corner that they've painted themselves into with Genshin's design. You could implement a tiny bit of those changes, push it right up to the breaking point, and it would probably do a lot to spice up the game. But if they were that smart the game wouldn't have the problems it does to begin with. That's why we're getting a silly alignment system for Fontaine characters that mostly won't matter, and will just be another nonsense annoyance when it does.
They (buffing elemental shields) already happened with the cryo lector who's cryo shield is significantly stronger than any other shield in the game. All this does is forces you into a team that doesn't work well with itself. Further, with less developed rosters it could completely hinder their account. "bring enough effective pyro to kill the shield in time *and* have a decent enough team to clear the floor in time." Ahh, yes, mono[x] element meta gameplay - it's not going to be the end result people think it's going to be, all you are doing at that point is removing the elements all together and relying on MV% to determine character/kit improtance/value.
They tried challenging this when they did 3.7. Abyss. The cyro/hydro Ayss Lectors, Baptists and the consecrated beasts, but as you all know, many lost their minds.
I think Genshin Impact itself is too damage focused for what everyone seems to think the game is "really" about. Whether that be the main story, the character stories, the minigames and events, the exploration, whatever it is it's damn near unanimous that it isn't about combat. Which is exactly why I can't understand why every character has such meticulous effort put into tweaking their damage numbers, why there are all these artifacts that augment combat prowess that you can't grind for indefinitely, why I need seven copies of a character to unlock their full potential IN COMBAT and that a weapon banner even needs to exist. And yes, I know the answer to that is 1. to make fat stacks and 2. keep the players on a leash. I just figured that could still be accomplished without having a game that has a myriad of identity issues and baiting people into combat-centric mindsets.
The big issue with super element focused content that you might have to do is when your high level it takes so long to bring a character up to the level you need that it becomes not fun and just annoying to do
I was really hoping a Dendro reaction would provide some healing or buffs to make the element more accessible. But they just put it into more busted ways to deal greater damage instead.
They can't diversify requirements and force players to use all their units because it takes too much time to build that many characters. Ultimately all of the game's flaws go back to "not enough resin and primogems" which is a nicer way of saying P2W always makes games worse.
I think the groundwork for non-combat uses of elements was laid down in version 1.0, which is, I think, why Barbara was given out for free & every Anemo character back then had some form of crowd control. Problem is, it's not a popular feature (Geo being perceived as weak because it's lackluster as a defense element, Hydro resonance being seen as useless in shield-dominated meta) & a lot of a character's strength in the meta is measured by their performance in Spiral Abyss, where the only difficulty available is DPS check. There's also the design of almost every boss combat in the game providing no incentive for players to do any more than deal more damage (notice how most boss arenas have flat surfaces and nothing else; at least Apep's 2nd phase forces you to hide in a specific position).
Tbh its so easy to make varied content for each of the units but it doesn't help with their sales like that so they wont bother. You can easily make a boss that can only be killed once you hit them a certain amount of times so characters that have faster multi hitting attacks are favored over the straight damage of the attack. Or a boss thats only affected by Elemental bursts or an enemy that continously heals back to full hp unless you hit a damage threshold all at once (so big hitters like Eula or Raiden) make a boss where crowdcontrol is necessary to effectivly beat them because there are too many enemies to hit all at once or something. There are so many ways to diversify these bosses but they wont do it because that would require the players to use their brain a lil snd they already said they dont want players to do that
I think what is missing are reactions that may not be purely damage but supportive in nature like reducing enemy shield strength, increasing crit rate, debuffs and buffs like HSR
I feel like the idea of enemies being a certain element and being strong/weak to other elements like pokemon is a great idea to make you use one comp over another. I highly doubt they would rework all the enemies to have this sort of relationship with elements, but what they could do is just make new enemies that do adhere to that system and use them alot more often. There are already glimpses of making you choose one type of damage over another such as the ruin enemies being extremely resistant to physical and the slimes being immune, but 99% of the enemies are just "hit them until they die".
There's a player and game aspect to why reactions are basically hyperforcused on just damage. For the players, it's easy to notice it every time people start tearing each other apart on who is better. It's always about damage, damage, and more damage. Same for reactions, characters who can trigger more reactions are considered better which is by extension another damage debate. There's already a good list of instances where players would basically ignore a unit outright just because they don't deal enough damage during that judgment only to have said judgment fall on its face once new content appears that allows the character to shine. For the game aspect it's basically Spiral Abyss. Whether or not you see that feature being easy or hard because it's a DPS check is up to you, but bottom line is that it is a DPS check that emphasizes damage output and dumping. There's technically no reason for you to emphasize endurance in Spiral Abyss so it incentivizes reactions for more damage. Sometimes I really want to have Genshin's combat system shift a bit more to how much damage you can take (endurance) over just how much you can dish out (dps).
To make sure I'm not dependant on raw elemental dmg I just play Bloom and Hyperbloom. Those teams value elemental application *alone*, everything above is just overkill.
Because generally the shields that it provides are hilariously bad , way too restrictive , such a nuances to get and the elemental it requires to proc it Geo has already Noelle and Zhongli . Plus so many other shielders from other elements that can provide also elemental resonance.
The new pneumaousia system being added with fontaine is proabably something they are using to force certain types of characters into challenges, in a permanent sense. If enemies now have natural weaknesses, you would need the opposing type to counter them. This would work if you require those counters. If the enemy can still just be killed with high dps, then the system is useless.
From what I've seen on leaks, it's more like using the right element to stun the consecrated beasts. You can brute-force them without it, but you'll stun them way faster with the right Ousia/Pneuma counter. So for newer players, specially those that will use the Fontaine portal and skip all Sumeru/Inazuma content, just taking a team with both, maybe HMC and Lynette will make things easier for them since their world Level would be low. For Veteran players, you can brute force them like you do with Consecrated beasts, but exploration will be easier with characters like Lynette, just like Sumeru was just easier with Collei since lots of Puzzles required Dendro or Archers, and she's a dendro Archer, and you needed two dendro chars to actually have a Reliable Dendro Application before Nahida so you'd need to run her with DMC or Tighnari, not just for the Dendro Resonance. Nilou even made this more of a requirement, since you cannot proc her blooms well with Just Nahida unles she's the main DPS on the team, because you need to apply reactions first to proc Nahida's E, and Triple Hydro teams don't proc reactions by themselves. Only after Alhaitham and Yao Yao came, all the way in 3.4, that these requirements were made easier. I imagine Ousia/Pneuma will follow a similar logic, with characters like Lynette serving similar purposes to what Collei had in early 3.x. You can play normally, but she makes things easier solely for being an Ousia Archer, and she's free so why not use her?
The thing is since Spiral Abyss is basically the only form of end game content and it is basically a big DPS check DPS matters the most. Even if the reactions have other properties it will all come down to DPS I think Spiral Abyss should move away from Time challenges and be more of a technical challenge which have more complicated patterns and require more than just which team comp can do the most damage in the shortest time. Maybe having multiple requirements at the same time. That would lend more focus on what the elemental reactions are doing rather than how much damage they are doing. There needs to be some change in how reactions work themselves but it is more on how Spiral Abyss is designed rather than the reactions themselves
I don't know, for me specifically, the stun/interrupt effect plays major role. I often choose to sacrifice the damage to gain more control. For example, when fighting wishaps in the Millelith domain, I use overloaded team specifically to interrupt and knock back them as much as possible. unfortunately, you can't really do it reliably, so it is kinda messy, but the possibility is there.
I think this is why ive been so much more interested in Star Rail as of late; since you always get attacked by enemies, there is no dodging, you need to legitimately strategize around that framework. These support characters are just much more useful due to it. Damage is still great, but your teams have to worry about enemies actually *doing* things to you. I think people are missing your point too. Whats the point of releasing new kits/interesting gameplay mechanics if damage is gonna be the only thing that ever matters? if reactions are gonna be the only thing that determines if someone is good? Dehya’s quality would be a lot different if something *needed* a tank for instance. They’re hamstringing their own design this way.
I feel they already have a foundation for all these reactions, I just wish they made them more impactful. there are already auras from different reactions, why not have them apply status effects? (freeze = being frozen, Swirl = DoT, electro-charged = attack harder but take more dmg, Burning = every attack they take backlash dmg, Superconduct = ???, Overload = explosion and stun, Quicken/spread/aggrevate = ???, crystalize = reduces res and slows, Shatter = forced stun, and keep vaporize and melt dmg because pyro is all about dmg) idk what to do with bloom reactions
Funny they have actually made a way healthier abyss which, to me, is the Legend of Vagabond swords and Hypostasis Symphony events. Those events allows you to pick a whole bunch of buff for your enemies and you're not forced to have a timer. So, you can try out a bunch of different team comp without having to stress out about damage. It only comes to mechanisms.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
They could go with a 4 party member resonance for other options for those comps
*PLEASE*
I think 3 party resonance would be better ,as many mono teams either use an anemo character (presumably Kazuha) or Zhongli for fourth slot .
I would love a 2 piece resonance and 4 piece resonance
I think Hoyo would rather make characters that do a similar thing so they can make more money 😂 like Gorou benefiting from having more Geo in the team
@@TheVenomologyPlay Star Rail to experience that cause I don't know how they can apply that on Genshin Impact cause the rng frustration is quadruple imo cause I already play Honkai Star Rail where I have two different artifact domain to farm normal 4 piece set and 2 extra artifact call planar and link rope inside another domain.You know what the best part of this.Both of this domain uses resin or trailblazer power in Honkai Star Rail.Awesome man
The elements have to focus on damage, because the only way in which this game increases difficulty is shoving more HP into an enemy. Meaning any other thing you give them aside from raw damage or damage amp is worthless. So unless Genshin does a drastic overhaul in the way in which they do “hard” content (they won’t) damage will be all that matters.
This is probably what will kill the game for me. The true Genshin killer is Genshin.
Well abyss herald and lector are exist and what they make hard to deal with is their element shield mechanism so it's not always about damage, but unfortunately many people found it very annoying (me included lol)
I mean honestly it felt like they kinda tried to do that in some recent abysses. Like with the consecrated beasts that hit like trucks. Or the tripple heralds that chain freeze you (especially when you bring hydro).
The problem is that defensive units mostly lack in damage as a result. And they definitely didn't reduce the hp as a trade-off for the bigger damage. Rather they said "just gid gud and lol." And honestly s way outperform any other defensive mechanism you could have. I tried to bring a team full of healers and dehya to that abyss and still managed to die. Then i brought good old national and it was easy as you have so many s and offense is the best defense anyways since you just need to get it done quickly.
To be fair even though Genshin is a super flashy rpg
At heart its just supee colorful characters meant for your consumption
Healing/tank requirements and Certain domains locking you out of a strat due to locking out certain reactions would help this game to not be overrun by dendro spam a lot.
I have amazing burgeon and hyperbloom teams that i can wipe abyss in with minimal effort by comparison, but its much less fun than shreding resistances through maintaining superconduct and dmg amp buffs, and beat the enemies with someone like Eula or Itto bashing them to pieces while actively avoiding their attacks, instead of abusing s from burst animations.
I get that Hoyo have to make a new lock every time and sell us the key to the new door like Nahida, but that actually completely invalidates player's attachment to characters through story content if suddenly their C4R5 main is barely usable since they cant get benefit from dendro reactions or have to too few elemental applications for meld/vape/freeze.
As long as there's a timer on combat events like spiral abyss and this latest one where you have to have 3 teams, the only thing to care about is damage.
What about an elemental reaction that slows Spiral Abyss timer?
@@herrscherkiller3432 it would be better to rid of the timer entirely, a big reason people hate getting defense and HP artifacts is that not many characters scale off of them for their damage and they're nigh worthless compared to crit and atk.
Hoyo did this to themselves, but not creating difficult enough enemies to fight, and just shoving a time limit down our throats. The least they could do is make difficult content optional or give us trial characters for abyss, but because of their lack of transparency with the fanbase, all we can do is guess what the problem is, and guess how we can fix it.
@@plvto1 You realize that timer is in all their games and that's what they stand for, right? The timer is in Honkai Impact as well, and there you're getting a score based on how fast you kill the enemy, in Star Rail you have number of turns which is kinda like a timer. You can't just tell Mihoyo to get rid of their signature gameplay. If you want defensive gameplay go to League and main tanks there. Or play Clash Royale and use the Golem - Night Which deck.
I don't like the timer.
@@herrscherkiller3432that is why people are keep asking for actuap end game content instead of abyss. In HSR, MOC is just a achievement for you made it instead of SU being kinda endgame (not perfect, its just a domain but fun)
I feel like the game would benefit of making survivability checks. Fights in which instead of dealing a bjillion damage, you need to survive a period of time in which the enemy is causing great damage constantly and you’ll need tanks, shielders and healers survive, and maybe the less damage you take, the more damage you deal to the boss when the window opens. That would add variety to the game and incentive the usage of characters usually left behind for not being damage dealers
Edit: if they do this, it should be a separate boss or maybe even a new abyss. This idea doesn’t belong in the damage check hell of the spiral abyss
And boom, then they put it in abyss. That's a bad idea
@@nathho the abyss is overall a damage check besides survivability. The enemies have a bjillion hp and deal a bjillion damage. That’s not what i said. Doing both at the same time is asking for things to go wrong. A survivability check shouldn’t have a timer that limits how long you have a creature that you need to survive, that’s not what i suggested, that’s a whole other thing
@@nicolrb2210 to do a survivability check you need to use characters that focus on shielding and healing. They usually don't deal a lot of damage. If you want to be stuck with the same enemy that keeps hitting you while you can't do shit besides surviving for 20 minutes, then go ahead, but I ain't rocking with that.
@nathho but at least it changes the gameplay up a bit. azhdaha is like the only really unique boss in the game cause he basically says hey you better bring a shield or you gonna have a harder time which is a good thing cause then you gotta put in that slight bit more effort into team building and makes the game a bit more interesting cause it becomes a yea I could dps race this but it would be risky or you can go really safe or just have somewhat balanced team which can give some characters a chance to shine. Example a good team to demonstrate this would be the burgeon team. If let's say alhaitham, nahida, thoma and kokomi. Right there you got a somewhat good survival and damage team and if you wanted could replace kokomi with xingqiu or yelan for bit more damage. But I don't understand why you are so against just trying a new way of playing.
@@teddyisaliar271 But we already have that. You can still play burgeon 🤨
i agree that the game is too focused on damage but the issue isnt the elemental reactions being too damage focused, its the content having no form of difficulty other than the dps check. the specifics of characters kits get ignored not just because the element is more important, but because traditional combat mechanics arent meta in a game purely focused on time limits. and your ideas are great in a vacuum but in genshin any limitations are just paywalls where if you have the right units combat is a joke and if you dont its virtually impossible
Permanent game content when ⁉️⁉️ (that doesn't have a stupid dps check)
I say this constantly but I wish labrynth warriors was permanent it'd be an absolutely amazing addition to the game as a resin free activity to do that lets you just fight mobs and pick up their drops + other materials (reminiscent of simulated universe from honkai star rail)
But no. We obviously NEEDED to be able to spectate our friends who play TCG instead, since that is apparently what is worth their hard time and effort 🤪
@@hatooniewoomy we're never getting permanent content lol, as much as it sucks the whole hoyo business model is to frustrate us into spending money and they want to funnel us genshin players into their other games
13:26 I just want to say that enemies can use the reactions against the player. Hence the chamber 1 second half on 3.7 abyss in which you could be frozen for funsies and in the worst case you could get one shotted
The problem isn't really that we can fall victim to reactions, the real problem is that we ain't balanced towards that.
An example, we have characters with 16-25K HP usually but let's go to the extreme, A Nilou with every toy possible and teammates to futher boost her the highest I've seen is 86K.
The first rifthound in this abyss ONE OF THE EASY ONES has 272K more than triple the HP we get with the character that gets the most, imagine what happens when we get hit with an scuffed version of a reaction, something supposed to happen to those HP thresholds not ours, those things have CRAZY amounts of stats to compensate for the lack of others, You'd think a 0 EM vape won't hit that hard but once you realize they have 14.773 ATTACK and they're level 100 you have to understand that they ain't made with reactions in mind, they have no ICD and they don't affect each other.
Some people could think "oh but you have to consider the whole party stats" aight lets look at the best case scenario while dropping the DPS down the drain: 50K Zhongli + 50K Kokomi + 45K Yelan + 40K HP Hu Tao and add the 27% HP the Zhongli Shield has about 15K and the hydro resonance, would you believe me that even if you could somehow fuse them all toguether we are still barely comming near the HP of the whelp? the lowest HP monster in floor 12 has more HP that a team of combined HP built characters, there are 10 in total...
There's a single difference between us an enemies besides damage, we can dodge and the ICDless heralds go against that with every fiber of their being, that's why that abyss is horrible, not because it's hard but because it's unfair, Consecrated beast being able to one shot us is something that isn't new, if you go today against 4 basic ruin guards you'll get killed in a barrage of missiles, the reason they are "bad" isn't the damage and the reactions, it's because they have terrible hit boxes and dodging them perfectly is a must, decent concept terrible execution, I enjoy fighting them because I like my games with a bit of difficulty but I can see why some think it's BS.
It's kinda funny that you actually receive more damage against certain enemies in Bennett's burst
We had some kind of incentivised elemental matchup abyss in 3.7 and a lot of players complained lol
It's not only about having the required unit of that element, but also about building the team around the unit cuz artifact farming is a pain in the ass.
It can only be fun if abyss is not a time based dps check.
3.7's Spiral Abyss wasn't that much harder than previous Spiral Abysses. It was just more restrictive. With a decently built burgeon team, it was not hard at all to clear the first half of each chamber. But the problem here is that not every player has a decently built burgeon team. The strict teambuilding requirements blindsided the meta players who were vertically invested (not a lot of characters built but a lot of work put into a small number of them) and rewarded the players like me who were laterally invested (all characters have some level of investment but nobody is super powerful). So a challenge like that would reward a player like me specifically but it has demonstrably punished players who have built their characters and teams based on prior precedent.
The problem with switching Genshin over to a system that requires specific elements is that characters are relatively expensive in this game. Real world money value aside, dailies give less than half a pull each day and it takes 20 to guarantee a single 4* character. Even veterans are not all expected to have a varied roster that is properly invested across the board. Contrast games like Pokémon Masters or FEH where 5*s have 7-12% and 6-8% drop rates respectively and it is easy to max out a character simply by using the resources you've gained passively. Without a massive nerf to enemies across the board, Genshin can't be that kind of game.
I totally agree with your take (for the game to "force" us to use our overshadowed units from x element like Xinyan and Beidou). The only downside i see is if it is obligatory not everyone will have said unit, especially new players. But yeah, as a first patch player, i too want character usage variety and not bench my Collei just because she isn't on par with Nahida or DMC in terms of damage or apliccation. Anyways, loved the video, keep it up my guy!
Yep, and that's REALLY hard to do without giving to the player he feeling that this game is becoming aggressively P2W.
I've said it before and I stick with it: most of Genshin's gameplay issues can be traced back by the time investment necessary to build up characters. It already takes a lot of resources (and actual time due to Resin and plantlife respawn timers) to level characters. And once you finish those you need to start on relic farming of which 95% feels like garbage and can take months to feel like a build is complete (usable takes less time, but still too much). And that's for 1 character. now you need to raise a whole team, then you need to raise 2 teams. That's a lot of resources and time for a functional roster. And since it takes that much time, players are less willing to experiment or use "lower" tier units or truly expand their roster. And thus Mihoyo can't design content that requires a flexible roster, because most of the playerbase will be unable to complete that content if they haven't raised those units. If the time to raise a unit was reduced, players would have more time to actually try different units and then content could be balanced around a divers medium invested roster. As opposed to today's highter invested small roster.
In that same vein all difficult content is also balanced around players have 2, maybe 3 teams at a usable level. So making certain bosses or stages too niche will anger players who haven't taken the time to raise those specific units. Thus the only difficulty changes are HP and timer, or to make specific enemies more mechanically engaging.
Oh
But Genshin is also a mobile game so it can't be too mechanically intense or that playerbase will leave. More HP and a Timer it is.
They could just do what they did with this fighting event, no repeats and rewards that ain't really that good.
The timer is the biggest problem, I'm sure that a player playing defensively could finish any battle this game offers but when the condition is finish fast all the time it kills the chance of playing a loooooot of characters and throws the originality out the window, I have a pretty competent Qiqi, but why would I play her over my Eula? why her over my Raiden or Nahida? that's the thing the latter two are faster.
Every new character that comes outs value has been attributed to how well they apply their element. I’m hoping Fontaine will change this with pnemua and ouisa
I wouldn't say so. Take buffers like faruzan, exploration characters like kirara or dps' like tighnari. They don't apply their element THAT well but still find use for what they were intended to do.
Pretty sure pmeuma and ousia are just gor changing enemy states for enemies from fontaine to defense more or to attack mode
Not really some characters have problems way beyond than elemental applications.
Also Bennet doesn't have good elemental application but yet he is regarded as a great character .
Uhhh for Dendro and Hydro sure but for the others, absolutely not, what the heck
Leaks show Ousia and Pneuma are similar to using the right elements on the Consecrated Beasts' crystals. It makes stunning them a lot easier, but you can still defeat them by brute force.
I bet if miHoYo took your advice of FORCING players to bring certain or multiple elements of characters, the majority of players will be outraged
right? like i dont have deyha or xinyan so if i was ever forced to use them then its like okay well fuck me i guess
This, Genshin at this point is "Play what you enjoy" kind of game, if they made the game more meta-demanding, people wouldn't like that.
and they would be right, genshin is a gacha game, people can't get all the units hoyo wants them to use without spending or potentialy not getting the units they find fun
And the freaking relics, unless they can give us a way to actually have usable relics without no life farming (they won't cuz SR launched with the same system), I played starting Inazuma and my Raiden Relics are still Krap.
@@ryanw531 relics? you mean artifacts
The only issue with trying to push more content that requires specific elements is that it’s a gacha game and unless they have like four characters for each roll for each element for each weapon type then no one would have what they need to play
I do wish it wasn’t all damage and we had some healing or interruption resistance or any reason to use an element that wasn’t forced
That would benefit the game. Gacha games usually have the mentallity of " I got to have them all" so ir could, technically, improve sales.
This is the exact problem with his suggestions, they have to incentivize but not force.
6:36 ...Girl your delulu level is at all time high. SINCE WHEN DO PYRO CHARACTERS FOCUS ON DOING ONE BIG BURST HIT and do nothing else after that 😭
Every single Pyro character focuses on doing periodic Pyro damage. Even Bennett does when you get his C6 although he is still used for his skill spam.
8:06 ... COMPETING WITH WHO?!!!!
DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW KEQING AND CYNO TEAMS ARE STRUCTURED?!
9:24 imagine being mad that people can get a really cheap and VERY STRONG CHARACTER at C0
13:15 I AM NOW 100% CERTAIN YOU DO NOT PLAY THIS GAME
14:04 PREVENTING YOU FROM USING WHAT... Girl, get out
Every time this dude drops a video i'm like "oh shit here we go again" because he has so many bad takes and ideas 💀💀 but it's okay because he sounds smart ❤❤❤❤
@@nathho This one was on another level. I am shocked
Omg I didn't notice !
Cyno and Keqing compete with each other ? Doesn't he notice that both have drastically different teams due to their playstyle and Cyno focus quickbloom while Keqing focus on agreevate .
Also I don't if it's true isn't like not good on dendro reactions ?
Like yeah in a specific team that contains Nahida and Xinque because they can provide enough application for Ei to not screw over .
But in other teams (especially aggravate) doesn't she perform worse ?
The issue is simple, it's the fact that there's only one endgame objective: completing the abyss. And abyss is simply a DPS check for the most part, it's a flaw inherent to its system of killing all enemies in a limited timeframe. It's incredibly dumb and it's what is causing most problems with mihoyo having to do everything in its power to avoid powercreep. It's how we end up getting characters with nigh useless kits like Dehya because the focus of all character tends to be simply one, a DPS countdown challenge.
we've been asking for endless abyss content that slowly diminishes heals and shields for years://
yeah copium here, but since the game & its story being planned for 7 years (and also how star Rail have actualy end game pls give me SU overhere) , Im coping that there end game exists and has been planned its just not the right time/place/nations? Hard coping we have waves fighting contents in Natlan with Pyro god being God of Wars. Actual End game will comes, its just frustating that they won't tell us that's its planned or when it will come out or why it's not here sooner.
The problem for Abyss is that it's only made of tough enemies that you have to brute-force them, because time is running out. The Timer ruins the thing. It would actually be better if the condition for stars were DMG amount, so at least every one would pick burst DPS, and make that damn Crystal you have to protect sometimes less squishy. Timers ain't bad, but could be used more as "Survive for 10 minutes" while all sorts of bosses are thrown at you, so dodging and tanking and healing, while damaging to not let too many enemies on the field, would be fun.
One of the combat events I had so much fun was to fight that giant robot from sumeru, that was buffed a lot by me. All my team died save for Yelan and a very low HP Nahida. I had to dodge all attacks using Yelan's E while aiming at the robot's weak points, rush E towards it, then quickly make Nahida Dance Dance Revolution the robot, and retreat. I had an absolute blast, but I spend almost 20 minutes defeating it, and I felt EXHILARATED. I never had so much fun with a Genshin Boss since the first time I fought Signora without a proper team.
@@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person I agree 100%. I feel like different "gamemode" types in the abyss would mix up the meta in a much better way. Sadly, it feels like hoyo is only putting in the bare minimum amount of effort in maintaining the abyss
Abyss fundamentally sucks as and endgame content, it has zero replayability, you either can’t do it or do it once and never touch it again.
Endgame contents are not defined by difficulty but by replayability.
Honestly, they just need to add an infinite hp dummy for us and a lot of people would be content for a while.
On the flip side, Genshin really is a game that taps into character appeal
A big goal seems to be making sure ppl don't get the feeling that their favorite character is bad
That means minimizing any potential "I can't use this character here"
You know what, that's the bright side to all this, almost no one is useless, given they deal dmg or provide good utility ofc.
Also just the fact that they pretty much baby the game to a point of anything outside of abyss dies immediately and most events either completely remove all your characters mechanics or just again baby modes players
@@chilledout_5486 i like older unit in Hi3, so heartbreaking a lot got powercrept. Here at least can make any character work
Dehya wants a word
Eula mains 😮
This is nearlly impossible to do. Because the game lays on a balance, like you said, every caracter has a unique kit that makes it useable for different thing even when there's some look a like (hello Xinqyu and Yelan). And the game is supposed to be playable with every single of those caracter (less and less nowaday actually). And the risk of what you're asking is that every caracter become unskipable and necessary to your box. Making fall drasticlly the feeling of playing with the caracter that you like. There already is a necessity to have a bit of everything in your box in the game rightnow (i know mine lacks a Pyro unit a lot, i only have Ayaka as cryo for now) because ther's already is a order of wich element is strong against wich element. But it is still possible to complete the game using other ways as i have 36star in abyss in this update and the last one, and 34star since a loooong time while not having pyro caracter properly built, and if i cannot keep going in the game because i haven't the right pyro caracter, not caring about if i WANTED this caracter to beging with, then i'll just end up quitting it.
Don't know if i made myself clear cause it's not my maternal languages but to conclude, making elements a little bit more special that they already are by the way they're doing dps might be a good thing, but adding up a way too much of speciallity and everyone them will become in one way or another, a necessity. Wich would be a bad thing in Genshin Impact unlike a Pokemon Game, because it is a gasha. And the game will require to whale money much more that it already does.
This is a never ending cycle, some game design choices in Genshin might need improvement but doing so might unballance the game in another way and lead to some other neccessity of improvement...that might lead to even more game design leaking feature and so on.
There's a saying existing in France wich says "Best is the ennemy of the good". Wich is a little odd because French people used to seek improvement in every way possible for their environnement. But it might be right cause after acheving it's prime and being the greatest country to live in on the only known planet with life, we're going down really hard and really fast...
Anyway, their is a lot of thing that needs improvement in Genshin Impact and that are way less subject of breaking the game's balance that the really core gameplay design of the game so i'd rather wait for those to come first. For security reasons.
Congrats for reading until the end, here's a virtual hug.
The problem is that, in general, damage will always be the ruler of the meta in both gacha-based games, and games as a whole. Even if there are things that don't do damage, the question becomes "How do those help me facilitate more damage?" Even in the case of defensive reactions, their usefulness would be in letting you get away with less healing/shielding, and thus dealing more damage. And in the case of non-outright damage reactions, like the buffing reaction concept you said, it would be directly compared with the damaging reactions when it comes to performance. It's a distinction without a difference.
I think we are far more likely to see characters that can make reactions do additional things that will make reactions more tactically interesting, rather than seeing reactions themselves change. (Which, of course, means that old characters probably won't get helped by this unless they have good synergy with the new ones) And while the obvious choice that comes to mind first is Nilou, that's not really the sort of thing I was thinking of. I was more thinking of characters like Sayu, adding healing onto Swirl. (Or a certain upcoming Cryo claymore and his interaction with a specific Cryo reaction)
You must be hinting Freminet and the possibility of his ""shattering"" gameplay!
@@yuyue605 Yep! I forget how much info is actually known right now (that isn't leaks), but he uses shatter in a very interesting way!
@@Superflaming85OMG REALLY? I hope it's fun tbh 😭😭 shatter is fun to play around with
@@hatooniewoomy He's probably going to fall into the same boat as Kaveh/Heizou.
Questionable performance, as he's a 4* on-field DPS (and a Cryo/Physical one, at that), but undoubtedly fun. I'd sure love to be wrong, though!
To counter your comment, in FGO for example, there are different kinds of DPS characters and different kinds of supports where they're all good but they're used in different content, some work in specific fights while others don't and vice versa. For example there are characters that rely on critting and supports that help you crit, those would work best in fights against only one enemy/boss, on the other hand there are farmers that don't work at all against bosses but work well against multiple enemies by being able to use their ultimates consecutively.
The issue with Genshin is that all of the content in the game and the way you use the characters is the same, every DPS does the same kind of damage under a different element and fighting one or more than one enemy is still the same thing.
Essentially Hoyo has to rework the entire gameplay.
While I don't disagree, I don't think it's feasible for Genshin to implement this because the game is a gacha, and there's very few characters you can get. Like, sure, it'd be great to have content that would give you an incentive to use Dehya and Xinyan- for people who *have* Dehya and Xinyan. Everyone who doesn't have them would have to either try to power through with different units for content specifically not designed for them or just skip the content until they get lucky on a pull.
When I started playing Genshin, it took me months to get my first Pyro character. I didn't understand anything about artifacts or how weapons worked truly, so clearing the damn third floor of the Spiral Abyss to get my Xiangling was- hard, to say the least. And, aside from Barbara, I didn't get my first Hydro character until like 4 months in, when I got Xinqiu on my first Lantern Rite.
The approach of having to use specific units also ignores all the time and resources required to fully build a specific unit. Talent books take time and resin to farm, and we've all suffered the pain of trying to get good artifacts. It's just not feasible to use all your units unless you can 1) Guarantee your whole player base will have access to all needed units to complete content and 2) Lower the time and effort required to make specific units usable against difficult content.
I'd love to see a video going into detail how adding a timer to the spiral abyss has effected the entire fundamental design of the game and how people experience it. From reactions based team comps, to spending months farming for characters' "best" builds, to some players spending hours a week trying to kill some mobs just a little faster. I wonder how different the game would be if the added more win conditions to spiral abyss like protecting the monument.
I think the reason why is to encourage players to use the elements they like instead if what they need, having some elements do a certain utility means that if a boss comes along that requires you beat them using a certain element or reaction then it means that you'll be required to use character for that you don't like in order to win, think of spiral abyss where some floors have Abyss lectors which requires you to use very specific element in order to destroy their shield quickly in order to get 3 stars which doesn't feel good
imagine if in the future we fight a lvl 100 Azdaha where shields are a necessity because he does too much dmg. it means that many teams just don't work and you'll have to use a shield character or multiple in order to just win
but thats already the case, like the wolflord or whatever his name is, requires you have a geo character.
@plvto1 No you can still use any element, it's just much slower so you can still run in their with your usual team and win
@@plvto1 Last time we had the wolf lord I beat it 36* with Nilou, Collei, DMC, and Barbara ^-^
I also beat it with Kazuha, Bennett, XL and a LV 40 Ningguang who was only there for the Geo totem puzzle.
I was running geo teams and as soon as i switched to reaction team all my struggle to clear enemies dissapeared. I just wish non reaction combs could as viable as reactions
Even in situations where certain elements are forced the things that make a character good don't real change, and often makes things worse. Elemental shields don't make characters bad at reactions better, they make them SUBSTANTIALLY worse. The best way to deal with the abyss guy with 4 elemental shields is to blast him with constant element application from xianling/bennet + xingqiu or yelan, because otherwise each shield would take like 10 seconds to break and you wouldn't be able to win in abyss.
The things that make a character good are pretty much set in stone at this point, barring gimmicks like the ousa/pneuma which are only designed to push new characters that aren't actually as powerful as the characters that have been in the game since day one.
Short of actually buffing them or making hyper specific and wildly overpowered artifacts, there's nothing they can do to make the bad characters good at this point.
My idea is first they should introduce more elemental resonances like Anemo with Electro boost ER and reduce stamina and cooldown, another great thing for both damage and design is obviously more off field skills and bursts which is something I’m hoping for Hydro Aether otherwise he’s just like Anemo which is nothing new.
Hydro aether is not that good.
Don’t remind me I still have little hope for official release 🙁
Hydro tabibito is...definitely something else. They're definitely...something 😂.
Hydro Traveler: water gun pewpewpew
About the elemental typing thing. Varsie, do you know that enemies have different elemental resistences, or is that a new information.
We never had a actual swirl cc unit since the announcement of inazuma.
Still feels strange that having a Cryo aura slows you down when no other element does anything similar.
Also it would be cool to make characters have more consistent forms of elemental self-application, like how Barbara applies the Hydro element on yourself which can accidentally freeze you if you're afflicted with Cryo. If more characters applied elements onto themselves for longer periods of time, the enemy can take advantage of that especially via Freeze and Overloaded.
I just really, REALLY want elemental reactions to have some sort of special effects on the enemies and on the player.
Examples:
+When you deals Melt dmg to an enemy, after the reaction of propped, Hydro will be auto propped on the enemy too.
+Whenever Superconduct/Overload/Electrocharge is propped, the enemy's defense will be reduced and the enemy is more likely to be stunt.
+Have swirl to have different effects instead of just... Swirl. Have Pyro Swirl deals burn damage on top of swirl, Hydro swirl slows down the enemy and so on.
Of course to balance things out, the players themselves will be affected by these reactions when they're propped, making the players taking more damage and making us actually raising our game skill.
Just my personal opinion, if you're against this, I don't care :P
I think elemental reactions should just do one thing rather multiple at once ,the game is balanced around that.
like Geo could literally just be a defense break element ngl, defense scaling in talents is already a thing so maybe the more defense you have the more they shred or something.
...Superconduct, Electro-Charged, and Overload already have stagger and/or debuffing effects, Swirl's utility is to spread elements around and can be used to enable or proc other reactions, the "special effects" are already there
He means effects that don't necessarily lead to more dmg. The stunt/ slow could be used for escaping
I like this
I think we have enough varied supports for our dmg dealers. For example, zhongli might not boost dmg as much as benny boi but he makes dealing dmg way more sustainable
I remember Childe weekly boss first phase having a bonus attack when attacked with Hydro, so the idea of challenge was there, but was not developed much into the game😢
To counter your argument on differentiation, enemies have element-based resistances and element-based shields are becoming increasingly more common. There are a lot of nuances between units when you consider swapping one unit in a team to adjust to different circumstances.
content defines meta. If the content is about if you know the mech, know the fight and not too much time gated, then people will try and balance out survival and damage, but as of now ? I'm slapping full damage team, no heal needed, maybe except whenever the doggos come up
9:57
EXCELLENT POINTS! Seriously, thank you for making clear how important more genuine variety is.
I should note that I have PTSD because of a sadist involved in the Genshin Impact balance team, keeping in mind that I haven't even played Genshin Impact, but I for sure will never want to play it as long as people like her are given free power. Having you deconstruct Genshin Impact's "balance" is very solid to see.
Something I would like to punctuate is that I have been working on a series of comments about Kid Icarus Uprising's balance and how a remaster can be improved. And right now, I'm focusing on how Clubs can be improved and I'm finding that the bulk of them (not all of them, as I'll exclude the 3 you're probably thinking of now) could stand to innately inflict debuffs on enough given attacks, even at reduced durations and chance values compared to using the equivalent Powers, to compliment their raw power, rather than giving them yet more power. I can give a few examples of my suggestions: Skyscraper Club will get Paralysis for improved chasing ability. Black Club will get Weaken to reward consistent attacking. And Aurum Club will get Shaking to grant it the ability to do range disruption.
What my point is that easier damage output capability does still need to be a uniquely useful trait for character choice rather than free of charge for basically everybody. Honestly, I thank you again for making as much clear, and I can add my own point that we want people to care about their anti-armor options because those tend to encourage the better points of the involved characters. At the same time, we can't even stop there, because Mighty Glaciers also do need to be distinct from each other too. The aforementioned Skyscraper Club in KIU is that game's definitive Mighty Glacier/Melee Tornado hybrid and we do want people to consider risk assessment instead of trying to stay away all the damn time to make cheesy MUs, which we want to check fast, but this turns out to be a superficial level when all is said and done. Skyscraper Club's character is supposed to be some technological whiz who can work as a Magic Knight, something I can absolutely get behind.
My point is that even the Mighty Glaciers don't necessarily want "lolmoarpowar" but rather, they should get to work with the deeper systems even if they shouldn't be broken about it, which thankfully is not ridiculously likely to happen.
Honestly good video. And I agree. We definitely need more enemies that utilize the element reactions more.
I think the problem. Is that it is too hard too build characters in Genshin. I started about 6 months ago with mostly time in but some time off. I just hit AR 50 and have 1 team built for end game. And I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on the game, can kill even bosses pretty well. But that one team took FOREVER to even get to an endgame ready level.
Forcing you to build multiple characters just seems like hurting more casual players. Which are a majority of the player base at the end of the day.
With Pnemua and Ousia it's obvious that every nation from now on will have its own "elemental" interactions that comes with new characters from that nation, and characters from older nations will not have that mechanic implemented so you are forced to pull new characters even if they are ultra weak compared to Yelan or Kazuha or anyone that's considered OP.
I don't have issue with game posing us to only use specific elements, I have issue with the timer in abyss which forces us to use the highest dps ceiling team , i have issue with the lit low amount of 160 resin cap with prevents you from building a character u like, i have issue with how fked up rng is in artifacts. If these don't exist I would gladly use qiqi in abyss.
Elemental reactions either deal damage, or aid in survivability/crowd control. Problem is that SUR/CC are seldom needed. If there are any modes that focuses on CC and Survivability, then reactions like Overload will see increased usage. But there isn't any such content.
Most content in genshin involves out-running the timer. So you need damage. If there was a content focused on running down the timer instead, then that would be a different story.
It would be cool if the game gave us different elemental reactions that we can choose between, or at least different effects. For example, why does Vaporize necessarily have to give that hit an extra damage boost? Maybe it can make the enemy more susceptible to damage for the next however many seconds instead, or be a transformative reaction like Electro-Charged; meanwhile Electro-Charged can also make enemies more susceptible to damage or maybe if an enemy if Electro-Charged it gives nearby characters 1 Energy every 2 seconds. Or Freeze is hard to change, but maybe we can buff the Shatter aspect since it's currently underutilized, while giving a second effect that makes enemies take more damage after being Frozen for however long.
@12:20
I also liked the last event where you needed to use 3 different teams with unique members to complete it.
Made me appreciate a lot of units i usually wouldn't use in SA ..
Sometimes it baffles me how people are often worried about "being forced to build characters" when someone who happens to not like meta characters may already, or are already, facing this conundrum.
Not everyone is all about camping for half a year in the Emblem domain to guarantee meta success by investing in the National trio nor are people able to guarantee Shinobu nor want to play EM-bot Raiden for Hyperbloom....among many other things. And even if Nilou is an option, she frankly has the same amount of value as Shinobu and a well-invested Thoma and only really rises up value-wise with Nahida involved (try playing Nilou without Nahida and the quality of her gameplay plummets), where frankly pulling for the latter will make any other Dendro feel like shit outside of the on-fielders and maybe the healers. 3.7 Abyss was already a good example of this happening because if you aren't dependent on your National core for the 2nd half you're in deep water, and the ones who are capable of handling the stresses of that 2nd half required a Dendro flex + National at the very least....the former which is usually best utilized by Nahida. There's also the case of enemies that are way too far apart as of late, on top of being too heavy/has backsteps that would make James Harden proud (looking at the Pyro Fatui gun cowards), almost making Kazuha a must since he also buffs damage and has an extra punching stagger in his E-skill compared to Venti's and Sucrose's that just sucks in and both are tied to their bursts. Some success may be found with the latter 2, but who buffs a shitload of Dmg% again?
Look I'm not saying the point is invalid, but as someone who really couldn't give two shits about every meta unit outside of Xingqiu, Raiden, Zhongli, and to an extent Ayaka and Ganyu, Spiral Abyss is already one of the worst game modes ever even if I have been able to 36-star for quite a while now.
the game that is literally designed around doing x amount of damage in y amount of time limit incentives you to play high damage teams? no shit. on top of that elemental reactions helps you to do more damage? holy shit! who could have known! this is a combat game, you hurt things to kill things. it's naturally better to hurt things more and faster. dead content lmao.
I dont have that much experience with rpgs with advantage systems, but from the few Ive played, It gets to a point that not having someone somewhat good on the specific advantage type can pretty much make It Impossible to pass certain challenges unless youre at the super high end with some other neutral unit. Thats usually Fine, but in genshin thatd be a huge problem, specially for new-ish players since we not only dont get caracteres as frequently as other gatchas, but specially since building up a single character is so expensive (Just think about farming artifacts for a new unit on every single elemental type, not to mention leveling them and their talents, along their respective suports. We already had a situation like that when the worf lord was put in the abyss and anyone who hadnt a geo main builded up or zhongli would need to puta in their party a random unit thatd do nothing but break that shield and thus reduce the Power of their team, thatd work as a 3 chars then, and there were a Lot of complaints in there
I dont see the hyperfocus in dmg as being a problem as long as the abyss is on time limitation, but id be interesterested If they changed the objective there and we had to adapt trying to get at the new objective
I would kinda dig it if they would introduce like light and darkness elements.
Dont know how, just sayin it would be cool.
I feel like these elements will probably be added once we have explored more about celestia and the abyss.
BTW enemies do have resistance to there elements like how the we nut has anemo resistance so the notion of "make Pyro stronger against dendro or cryo enemies" is already in the game.
lets say i have, a5 wagu steak, a herb garden, and high quality sea salt, why should i use the funny frozen herbs, floor salt, and serloin?
I really love dendro teams and dendro characters but I don't like the design of dendro itself. I thought that dendro would be about nature, plants and environment but it is actually green energy. I thought that we could have a dendro + geo that could root enemies for example. I think that dendro cores are well designed, but as you said, dendro is about damage and damage alone.
Right? Dendro should have been about nature and life and the likes but it just transformed into green technology instead. Talk about a wasted idea.
Green technology is also sick but it being more about poison and nature would be better, dendro is like the least consistent with how attacks look
@@anyaaa2801 I agree. I was expecting more criativity after 2 years for sure.
@@harryvpn1462 Exactly. Pyro, Cryo, Electro, Anemo, Geo and Hydro skills make so much sense with the correspondent elements. But I don't feel that with Dendro
...Theres also the fact that said options just exist. if a person playing Sayu is considered a restriction and not just wanting to fully utilize a certain characters playstyle i consider that good game design
Its an opinion but ive always felt like these videos are to isolated. Like theres not much effort to see what outside Vars small community
Why does no one play X and the idea of X mains must be the outlier. But the metric is Abyss runs on the CN server its not a gauge of what characters are popular or what the typical Genshin player actual uses(digging around a bit its mostly just put random characters in there team)
Its not possible to get data like that without raiding Hoyo's basement but the idea that players must be incentived by vertical progression is ...wrong.
Even banner sales its not players not wanting X character its certain players getting C1's or C2's and whaling. If you dont give a crap about huge numbers why whale beyond getting the Base value of the character. Versus people who believe that spending that extra 250 will give them a "better Raiden"
I would say the Elemental System does have nuance beyond damage its the issue of the louder individuals putting emphasis on damage. Its like Spiral Abyss
Its the only metric for evaluating Power Level but is so oriented on one play style only a few characters can be considered good for that type of content
In content where you want to mitigate as much damage as possibe picking up a Crystal and getting a quick shield or having weak shields in exchange for taking the damage needed is a way elements can come into play
Its a form of survivability content that relies on the player being reactivate instead of just hitting an opponent.
And you can basically make different variations on all the properties these elements provide outside damage
1. I think you're asking the wrong question. What I think you ask is "Is Genshin ITSELF too damage focused?"
2. A rule of thumb I follow is that "don't like, don't use" arguments are invalid until proven otherwise. (I'm sure someone will find a case where it is valid somewhere someday, but I've yet to see it happen)
I need help. I have 81 wishes atm with zero pity and no guarantee. If I get Zhongli in 4.0, will i be able to get Focalors in 4.2 😖?
Honestly, my gut is telling to not risk anything and just wait until his next rerun.
As always, the problem with the idea of REQUIRING characters for certain content is how building a character is expensive. If the few characters a player has built become unusable and they need to spend months building a new team just for some content, "catching up" would be even worse than it already is.
We can point out Genshin's failures of game design all we want, but at their root is the fact it's a gacha. Those mechanics are what hamstrung its potential as a game from the very beginning.
Completely disagree, in a gacha game where resources are heavily limited, I rather not be forced to spend resources on characters that are conventionally not meta, the freedom of using any characters on any enemies is what makes genshin fun, imposing limits drives away players and stretches the limited resources so much that you can’t progress in the game
God you’re really deep in the gacha hell huh. This is some next level coping
I didn't appreciate it at the time, but there was a combat event a few patches back that could let you customize the difficulty (I forget the name of it), and one of the things it let you do was _choose whether or not the timer was active._ If you wanted the highest score, you needed to turn all the settings to max, but otherwise you could just crank everything up _except_ the timer and the fight would be closer to something like Monster Hunter or a Souls-like, allowing people to use their favorite characters without feeling too much like they're crippling themselves.
I think being able to tweak the difficulty in Spiral Abyss would be good for everyone. Those who want to flex can go balls out with the mods, and those who don't can just tweak the settings they want for a comfortable challenge.
My ideas:
Shields (Elemental)
-once the shields are broken, they apply the same element of the shield to up to three different opponents (doesnt do dmg [can do dmg if a reaction is made])
Anemo + geo
-similar to corrosion but can be stacked
Geo + Dendro
-heals small amount of HP via the form of small healing flowers (can be collected by walking over them)
Cryo + dendro
-a debuff in maybe atk or def
Honestly, wind deals bonus dmg to stone in basically every game with elements that I have played, so ir makes total sense
I mean, enemies already have varying resistances to damage types. It's most visible in ruin type enemies, which have very high physical resistance. Something that could help is making these values visible to players in-game in some way, for example if you engage in combat with an enemy, icons will show up near their health bar that will tell you if an enemy will take more, less or no damage from a certain type. Then you could create domains with enemies with 80% or more resistance to, for instance, all damage types except pyro to encourage you to use a pyro DPS against them.
I prefer healing to damage. It doesn’t matter how much damage i do if I can do it forever
The spiral abyss doesn't prefer your combat style too
@@alessioguidi7392preach
Healers are kinda important in most meat teams .
@@alessioguidi7392I simply heal, aggressively
@@Zigzorark only of you have kokomi
I love how your videos make the perfect pairing for my workouts ❤ your voice rocks AND the video is interesting
I love your take on it, but The problem with it and my beef with the current state of the game is that you have to level up and artifact farm to make different char really work
Tbh it's not the reactions, it's the content. There's great variance in reactions the amplifying ones simply increase damage, while the transformative ones have different effects. Superconduct is a debuff, Electro-Charged also works as an AoE debuff of sorts, Overload provides stagger, Swirl spreads elements around, Freeze locks enemies into place, and Crystallize gives you a shield. The weak ones are weak because they lack the external character/artifact support that the others have gotten (Superconduct) or just plain have shit numbers (Crystallize), but that's not a problem with the lack of diversity in reaction concepts. There's also diversity in character playstyles, with a lot of variance in animations, preference towards Normal/Charged/Plunging vs. quick-swapping, melee vs. ranged, and single-target vs. AoE. Since this is a gacha game, I hesitate to support any content that requires really specific things in order to clear - this isn't Pokemon where you can reliably have a large pool of options to pick from - and would rather have a system where you can use anyone to clear hard content.
The main reason the reactions feel like they're all evaluated on damage is because the hardest content in the game is a timed DPS check where challenge is introduced simply by ballooning the HP pool and introducing bosses with stupid amounts of stalling. There's definitely a place for utility like Swirl and Freeze and when it's not the entire abyss (like the last one) the shields do add some variety but for the most part it's just damage damage damage.
There are of course flaws. Hydro is a bit too ubiquitous, but I chalk that up to other reactions like Superconduct and Shatter just being ignored. VV and Blizzard Strayer could be argued to be to broken. Then there's Dendro: Dendro just made everything worse and is the biggest counterargument to my point. The Quicken reaction was nice in that it's a good reaction without Hydro and doesn't always need Swirl but it's just a reskinned Vaporize/Melt. Bloom is just "stack EM, number go big", which does have its interesting aspects that mainly involve nerdy elemental gauge stuff (I do enjoy the four-element kitchen teams) but vanilla Hyperbloom's floor is just way too high. Bloom just made the entire element's roster a Dendro bot contest where Nahida is queen and everyone else fights for scraps. The Dendro reactions as a whole still have good new mechanics but are a step down from the initial ones and it was kind of forced upon us with ASIMON being in every other abyss and Freeze being nuked to the ground by bosses being everywhere on both sides of the abyss.
Type advantages can be interesting only if all players have access to all types, and it's also important that said players enjoy using the units on said types. Pneuma and Ousia mechanics can very easily force F2P and even low-spenders into using Fontaine units if they decide a boss needs Ousia to be knocked down, like the Aeonblight Drake needs a bow unit, the difference being bow units have been existing since the start of the game, while Pneuma/Ousia is going to start existing after 4.0 but is also getting implemented into the abyss in the close future.
At the end of the day, Genshin is a gacha game, it relies on the fact people can't have all the units they want without spending money, or waiting for a long time, but if they're adding mechanics that force you to use a specific roster of units in the abyss, they're basically gating those people that don't have Pneuma/Ousia units out of their gameplay and primogems.
Also I'd like to touch on the Baptist being "good design", which is something I very much disagree on, during the time he was on abyss, a lot of people player Bennett/XL/XQ/Nahida not because it was a good team, using Nahida makes you lose vapes because of burning, but those units were simply the best at applying their element to break the shields, while also having good motion value to kill the low health boss even without the reactions, it's the biggest example of units being used not for their gameplay or synergy, but instead for their pure elemental application.
9:36 random commenter:just don't use them xd
Vars: it should be an option for player to impose additional challenge on themselves, it shouldnt be a requirement
So dont use op characters... I am not really understanding your counter argument there. Even non meta characters can 36* the spiral abyss, the game isnt hard enough that you are screwed if you dont use International or double hydro hyperbloom to clear content. And later you say that the game could have more enemies or domains that forces you to bring a specific element, that would be by your own words bad design.
13:26 They already do! Have you forgotten the previous abysses? Hydro + Cryo Heralds/Abyss mages. The Electro Kairagi always accompanied by the Pyro one, the Consecrated beasts, etc. Even before 3.0 the enemies could use burning on us
I think he ment to encourage is to use a specific element or have some sort of advantage .
Ngl i hate being forced to play a specific element. If abyss becomes sekiro with elements im not gonna play that. Fking dark souls gatcha game sounds like living hell
my favourite team comp rn for abyss is double geo double anemo for mobs. I get free elements by absorbing the attacks of the mob in kazuha's swirl, then just rapid fire pew pew with scar while cloaked in invincibility thanks to a geo shield :p
What is weapon comps also come into play?
If everyone uses Catalysts, increase party wide elemental mastery and have elements last longer on enemies.
If 2 uses swords and 2 uses Claymore, then increase party wide damage and increase skills damage
I heard indirect and unofficial news about dehya's dmg will increase in the coming versions
i feel like the first fontaine 5* we are getting could be indicative of a slight shift in meta, with lyney hyper focusing on mono element teams without causing a lack in dps, perhaps for future releases we can see more insentive for characters personal dps as opposed to reactions.
I will give you my two cents about it even though it might be a bit out of topic.
1) Super Resonance : I would add a resonance so that you can built teams with 2+2 Elements ( sort of Nilou bloom style) . You could really give to Overload or Electrocharged teams a brand new revamp with such a feature.
Basically the combinations of specific elements (2+2) give you Super Resonance, on top of the normal resonance that you would get .
2) This would need to be connected with the Lore in a way. Geo needs to be saved. And you could do that through a new alliance and a new pact between the Archons. After a specific ( hypothetical) event Zhongli gets closer to the other archins forming a new bond and thus new elemental reactions.
Geo + Pyro : Molten ( Higher resistance to interruption, slowing enemies , explosion dmg )
Geo + Hydro : Sand ( something that boosts hp of allies and reduces defenses of enemies)
Geo + Dendro ( a whole new bloom that reacts with cryo and anemo).
And so on...
Actually it would be very nice if you could make a video about it.
This is kinda why I think hydro is almost too good with every element having something with it making almost every character viable for any role since by nature of hp scaling being the expectation and that being the best thing to scale by in the game it makes hydro units a jack of all trades master of all while every other element focuses on damage or cc
Like legit what is the last time you have made a team that did not have any hydro in it
And I don't think the enemy mentioned at the end is a good example mostly because in the over world they are to weak and die in 20 seconds or you fail and they take 2 minutes with the main problem being that most teams lack consistent application on demand without burst and the units that do attack slowly so you have to go through another phase. But in spiral abyss the boss becomes a chore since you can't build a team just around them you need to go through 2 other waves so you may not choose the best team for the boss.
Just to be "that guy", since ive been running mono geo and aggrevate teams almost every abyss Rotation the past year, i build teams without Hydro all the time^^
Hdyro is good but you can build alot of good teams without it.
Mono Geo
Melt
Mono Pyro
Quicken
Anemo Dps
The implementation of this has been somehow implemented in HSR, where you do need specific element to break the toughness bar. Mind you that you could go without breaking it but it's significantly slower. However, this locks new player from the new contents if they tried the proposed way mentioned in this video. Perhaps, it is better to only do this on event only, considering the state of the game, which Genshin does try to do and do it very well.
There is a mechanics in the same that increase that matchups you talking about, which is Elemental Notes. Enemy with these elemental notes have buff & more res & different moves sets then when being disabled by removing their Buff with reactions. Fountains even gonna take it up another notchs by making the new 2 alighments that's special to Fountain only, but I heard that you can still overpower those elemental notes without using Fountain Characters, it just using Fountain characters disable their ability to rebuff themselves with elemental notes. I hope that's true since genshin been keeping a good track of not required the game pay to wins (aka you can beats floor 12 with 36s stars with only 4 stars/ not too many premium characters)
Man forgot the first follow-up reaction before Quicken in the game: Shatter (Frozen-Blunt). Unusable with Bosses, but it's still there :^)
i feel like this video really missed the mark. it just kind of ignores why genshin has stuff set up the way they do, and every reason why they do not do some of these suggestions (and even the fact they have tried some of them)
i think a lot of you need to just accept genshin is the type of game it is, and youre asking for it to become a completely different game
I've wanted them to shift to an element type-matchup system since nearly the very beginning being an electro main
you can see the beginnings of type advantages with early game fatui harbingers and when fighting abyss mages, you can easily see this by the efficiency to break their shields: pyro->cryo->hydro->pyro
electro has NEVER fit into this type-advantage system with electro affecting each of the shields in essentially the same way; and with the release of the electro abyss mage, you could see that 3 other "primary" elements essentially share the same efficiency against electro shields on electro abyss mages and electro lawachurls
I feel like hoyo has missed a big opportunity to give the 4 primary elements a proper type-advantage system, where they could very easily slot in electro like: pyro->cryo->electro->hydro->pyro; and you can already see some semblance of this system against the electro fatui hammer enemies having cryo as their main weakness for their shield
then anemo would be effective against all the primary elements but not itself or geo, and geo would be effective against itself and anemo, but not the primary elements; OR anemo and geo could act like dragon and fairy types in Pokemon (I've never actually played a Pokemon game so I don't understand the type advantage system well, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they work as both weakness and advantage to each-other); I'm not exactly sure how dendro would fit since I've had this idea since like 1.1 and dunno how dendro would work in this supposed system
I saw a comment somewhere in here (in the reply sections) that suggests a version of the Abyss that goes ‘how long you can survive’ mode, and I absolutely had to put it here. It’d be game changer. Especially for players whose fav character’s kit is survival based (looking at Noelle mains)
Imagine a domain where you have to continuously (I don’t even know how to do it), dodge, shield, heal and rely on freeze, overload & other survival reactions like your life depends on it to win… For those who have the dodge ability of a rock (like me), characters like Baizhu or Zhongli become straight up meta 😂
In my opinion, there needs to be more elemental reactions that directly affect combat through non-damaging means. A few ideas that the community has had are things like Anemo and Geo creating small sandstorms that deal a minimal amount of damage but pull lighter enemies in like a lesser version of Kazhuha's skill, Dendro and Cryo having a reaction that reduces an enemy's elemental defense, Dendro and Anemo having a reaction that causes affected enemies to burst out in a pollen cloud that inflicts a movement and attack speed debuff, etc. One of the ones I came up with is even having Geo be able to react with itself through a unique reaction, where with enough Geo damage procs an effect similar to Zhongli's petrify occurs and makes the enemies have their attack reduced while also becoming vulnerable to and taking more damage from heavy attacks like the shatter effect from being frozen. And one of my friends came up with a reaction due to Pyro damage procs called Overheat, where the enemy would take more damage from Pyro attacks and exude a small aura that causes enemies in the aura to also receive half that Pyro vulnerability. With the game being so focused on its elements as a core part of both gameplay and story, I'm genuinely surprised MHY said they're not going to add more reactions to the game.
As a waifu player i cannot relate. Doesnt matter if they can clear abyss, waifu all day.
the thing I want is to be added a place like spyral abbys . this place dose not restrict you with time,
but with challenges like beat the domein with only 3 units, only use pyro and geo , only use 3 star wepon
A possible problem with forcing the use of certain niches, such as healing or shielding is the feeling of being forced to bring a certain character niche. Right now, mono-geo is still playable, but not everyone enjoys that playstyle. I believe it is also possible to clear abyss with ANY well built character roster right now (Which motivates players to pull for those they like, not just for a niche).
Forcing players to have certain restrictions other than damage would likely not reflect well on F2P players, since they would be forced to pull characters they dislike to fill the niches - something Genshin tries to avoid.
Having a universal system avoids this mandate. I remember a combat event with hypostasis that required built characters of all elements, something I did not have at the time. I had to give up, which did not feel good at all.
I think that type based or combo based weaknesses would fare better than a mandate which I hope Fontaine could add.
The prognosis of Geo’s future viability is almost entirely resting upon the shoulders of either Navia’s kit, or some unlikely future patch update in which Geo is reworked, likely involving a fundamental upheaval of the Crystallize reaction, or the arguably even more unlikely emergence of new Geo reactions altogether.
Seems like the way to address this is through future enemies not characters or reactions, which I think Hoyo is already starting to do. Enemies have resistance stats, and recent ones (and some older ones) like Hilichurl rogue and consecrated beasts have increased resistances to certain elemental damage types. A lot of players aren't aware of these resistances though because Hoyo doesn't mention them in detail, so the onus is on players to look them up online. Maybe introducing a gadget that lets you look at and record elemental weaknesses of enemies (thinking like Persona 5) could be an interesting way to make players more aware of some of these weaknesses.
Hoyo could also have more enemies apply auras on themselves so that you have to think about what kind of reactions still work. They do this minorly with some enemies by adding elemental shields or your example of thunder manifestation. Also, maybe have more characters apply auras to themselves with their abilities so that enemies can cause reactions on players more. This might make more players consider which elements would be dangerous for them to use or how to use their own auras to cleanse enemy applied auras.
I don't think that the damage focused elemental reactions need to change to do this. The one completely undamage-releated reaction you pointed out, crystallize, is notoriously the least used reaction. Changing other reactions to be defensive minded might make them as equally unused unless Hoyo stops making the hardest content in the game time restricted. However a Geo reaction overhaul with more powerful defensive upsides could be popular in the same way Zhongli is still very popular for his defensive utility despite his low damage.
You'd have to rebuild all the enemies to need things other than just pure DPS to resolve them. A simplistic example would be like abyss mage shields being more fragile to the correct element and more resilient otherwise. You could easily imagine enemies that are put into different states by different elements or slow-moving enemy attacks that can be rebuffed by attacking them and have different reactions based on what element is used; i.e. water bullets bounce back and stun the enemy if hit by Cryo, or they damage us more but generate tons of particles when hit by Electro., etc. Or anything where you benefited from reacting and using elements tactically instead of just pumping in as much damage as possible wile trying to avoid getting interrupted.
But the problem with all this is, not only would you have to rebuild all the enemies in the game, you'd then have to rebuild all the characters to work with the new paradigm that's about something other than stacking up buffs to damage. You could start implementing changes with new enemies and characters, but that would create a break in the game where old characters are no good for dealing with new enemies, and new characters are less good at dealing with old enemies. That's the corner that they've painted themselves into with Genshin's design. You could implement a tiny bit of those changes, push it right up to the breaking point, and it would probably do a lot to spice up the game. But if they were that smart the game wouldn't have the problems it does to begin with. That's why we're getting a silly alignment system for Fontaine characters that mostly won't matter, and will just be another nonsense annoyance when it does.
They (buffing elemental shields) already happened with the cryo lector who's cryo shield is significantly stronger than any other shield in the game. All this does is forces you into a team that doesn't work well with itself. Further, with less developed rosters it could completely hinder their account. "bring enough effective pyro to kill the shield in time *and* have a decent enough team to clear the floor in time."
Ahh, yes, mono[x] element meta gameplay - it's not going to be the end result people think it's going to be, all you are doing at that point is removing the elements all together and relying on MV% to determine character/kit improtance/value.
Imagine if each element had its own reaction when paired with itself. Like continuous electro application created paralysis at a 25% chance.
patch 1.x : Critical Impact
patch 2.x : Energy Impact
patch 3.x : Elemental Impact
patch 4.x : Health Impact?
They tried challenging this when they did 3.7. Abyss. The cyro/hydro Ayss Lectors, Baptists and the consecrated beasts, but as you all know, many lost their minds.
Maybe they tried to do something new but the spiral abyss is still about killing things as fast as possible.
I think Genshin Impact itself is too damage focused for what everyone seems to think the game is "really" about.
Whether that be the main story, the character stories, the minigames and events, the exploration, whatever it is it's damn near unanimous that it isn't about combat.
Which is exactly why I can't understand why every character has such meticulous effort put into tweaking their damage numbers, why there are all these artifacts that augment combat prowess that you can't grind for indefinitely, why I need seven copies of a character to unlock their full potential IN COMBAT and that a weapon banner even needs to exist.
And yes, I know the answer to that is 1. to make fat stacks and 2. keep the players on a leash. I just figured that could still be accomplished without having a game that has a myriad of identity issues and baiting people into combat-centric mindsets.
The big issue with super element focused content that you might have to do is when your high level it takes so long to bring a character up to the level you need that it becomes not fun and just annoying to do
I was really hoping a Dendro reaction would provide some healing or buffs to make the element more accessible. But they just put it into more busted ways to deal greater damage instead.
They can't diversify requirements and force players to use all their units because it takes too much time to build that many characters.
Ultimately all of the game's flaws go back to "not enough resin and primogems" which is a nicer way of saying P2W always makes games worse.
I think the groundwork for non-combat uses of elements was laid down in version 1.0, which is, I think, why Barbara was given out for free & every Anemo character back then had some form of crowd control. Problem is, it's not a popular feature (Geo being perceived as weak because it's lackluster as a defense element, Hydro resonance being seen as useless in shield-dominated meta) & a lot of a character's strength in the meta is measured by their performance in Spiral Abyss, where the only difficulty available is DPS check. There's also the design of almost every boss combat in the game providing no incentive for players to do any more than deal more damage (notice how most boss arenas have flat surfaces and nothing else; at least Apep's 2nd phase forces you to hide in a specific position).
Tbh its so easy to make varied content for each of the units but it doesn't help with their sales like that so they wont bother. You can easily make a boss that can only be killed once you hit them a certain amount of times so characters that have faster multi hitting attacks are favored over the straight damage of the attack. Or a boss thats only affected by Elemental bursts or an enemy that continously heals back to full hp unless you hit a damage threshold all at once (so big hitters like Eula or Raiden) make a boss where crowdcontrol is necessary to effectivly beat them because there are too many enemies to hit all at once or something. There are so many ways to diversify these bosses but they wont do it because that would require the players to use their brain a lil snd they already said they dont want players to do that
I think what is missing are reactions that may not be purely damage but supportive in nature like reducing enemy shield strength, increasing crit rate, debuffs and buffs like HSR
I feel like the idea of enemies being a certain element and being strong/weak to other elements like pokemon is a great idea to make you use one comp over another. I highly doubt they would rework all the enemies to have this sort of relationship with elements, but what they could do is just make new enemies that do adhere to that system and use them alot more often. There are already glimpses of making you choose one type of damage over another such as the ruin enemies being extremely resistant to physical and the slimes being immune, but 99% of the enemies are just "hit them until they die".
There's a player and game aspect to why reactions are basically hyperforcused on just damage.
For the players, it's easy to notice it every time people start tearing each other apart on who is better. It's always about damage, damage, and more damage. Same for reactions, characters who can trigger more reactions are considered better which is by extension another damage debate. There's already a good list of instances where players would basically ignore a unit outright just because they don't deal enough damage during that judgment only to have said judgment fall on its face once new content appears that allows the character to shine.
For the game aspect it's basically Spiral Abyss. Whether or not you see that feature being easy or hard because it's a DPS check is up to you, but bottom line is that it is a DPS check that emphasizes damage output and dumping. There's technically no reason for you to emphasize endurance in Spiral Abyss so it incentivizes reactions for more damage. Sometimes I really want to have Genshin's combat system shift a bit more to how much damage you can take (endurance) over just how much you can dish out (dps).
Based
To make sure I'm not dependant on raw elemental dmg I just play Bloom and Hyperbloom.
Those teams value elemental application *alone*, everything above is just overkill.
We only have 1 defensive elemental reaction, and people already upset about that..
Because generally the shields that it provides are hilariously bad , way too restrictive , such a nuances to get and the elemental it requires to proc it Geo has already Noelle and Zhongli . Plus so many other shielders from other elements that can provide also elemental resonance.
Geo is just physical but in yellow
The new pneumaousia system being added with fontaine is proabably something they are using to force certain types of characters into challenges, in a permanent sense. If enemies now have natural weaknesses, you would need the opposing type to counter them. This would work if you require those counters. If the enemy can still just be killed with high dps, then the system is useless.
From what I've seen on leaks, it's more like using the right element to stun the consecrated beasts. You can brute-force them without it, but you'll stun them way faster with the right Ousia/Pneuma counter. So for newer players, specially those that will use the Fontaine portal and skip all Sumeru/Inazuma content, just taking a team with both, maybe HMC and Lynette will make things easier for them since their world Level would be low. For Veteran players, you can brute force them like you do with Consecrated beasts, but exploration will be easier with characters like Lynette, just like Sumeru was just easier with Collei since lots of Puzzles required Dendro or Archers, and she's a dendro Archer, and you needed two dendro chars to actually have a Reliable Dendro Application before Nahida so you'd need to run her with DMC or Tighnari, not just for the Dendro Resonance. Nilou even made this more of a requirement, since you cannot proc her blooms well with Just Nahida unles she's the main DPS on the team, because you need to apply reactions first to proc Nahida's E, and Triple Hydro teams don't proc reactions by themselves. Only after Alhaitham and Yao Yao came, all the way in 3.4, that these requirements were made easier.
I imagine Ousia/Pneuma will follow a similar logic, with characters like Lynette serving similar purposes to what Collei had in early 3.x. You can play normally, but she makes things easier solely for being an Ousia Archer, and she's free so why not use her?
The thing is since Spiral Abyss is basically the only form of end game content and it is basically a big DPS check DPS matters the most. Even if the reactions have other properties it will all come down to DPS
I think Spiral Abyss should move away from Time challenges and be more of a technical challenge which have more complicated patterns and require more than just which team comp can do the most damage in the shortest time. Maybe having multiple requirements at the same time. That would lend more focus on what the elemental reactions are doing rather than how much damage they are doing.
There needs to be some change in how reactions work themselves but it is more on how Spiral Abyss is designed rather than the reactions themselves
I don't know, for me specifically, the stun/interrupt effect plays major role. I often choose to sacrifice the damage to gain more control. For example, when fighting wishaps in the Millelith domain, I use overloaded team specifically to interrupt and knock back them as much as possible. unfortunately, you can't really do it reliably, so it is kinda messy, but the possibility is there.
off topic but that 156k charge from kock is very splendid
I think this is why ive been so much more interested in Star Rail as of late; since you always get attacked by enemies, there is no dodging, you need to legitimately strategize around that framework. These support characters are just much more useful due to it. Damage is still great, but your teams have to worry about enemies actually *doing* things to you.
I think people are missing your point too. Whats the point of releasing new kits/interesting gameplay mechanics if damage is gonna be the only thing that ever matters? if reactions are gonna be the only thing that determines if someone is good? Dehya’s quality would be a lot different if something *needed* a tank for instance. They’re hamstringing their own design this way.
I feel they already have a foundation for all these reactions, I just wish they made them more impactful. there are already auras from different reactions, why not have them apply status effects? (freeze = being frozen, Swirl = DoT, electro-charged = attack harder but take more dmg, Burning = every attack they take backlash dmg, Superconduct = ???, Overload = explosion and stun, Quicken/spread/aggrevate = ???, crystalize = reduces res and slows, Shatter = forced stun, and keep vaporize and melt dmg because pyro is all about dmg) idk what to do with bloom reactions
Funny they have actually made a way healthier abyss which, to me, is the Legend of Vagabond swords and Hypostasis Symphony events.
Those events allows you to pick a whole bunch of buff for your enemies and you're not forced to have a timer. So, you can try out a bunch of different team comp without having to stress out about damage. It only comes to mechanisms.