Years back I knew a dentist, who wanted to start breeding race horses . He bought a bunch of high priced mares , and a very highly rated stud . Raised a couple crops of foals , paid lots of money for trainers . Then his neighbor brought home a donkey jack . Couple weeks the jack turned up in the horse pasture, her said no problem , the stud will keep it away from the mares . Next spring one of the mares threw a colt , 39 threw mules . To say he was pissed is a understatement. Next fall he found out the Packers in the mountains would pay more for a weaned mule than he was getting for started thoroughbreds . He sold his stud and bought a mammoth jack
Oh that's too funny!! I have 6 donks and I love em! Everybody says ah sell them donkeys you're not doing anything with them! Nope they are just awesome critters
I took a mule into the back country this year, snow, downed trees and treacherous terrain the whole time. He was unbelievably intelligent and I often gave up the reigns so he could choose our path through deadfall and snow, no surer footed an animal had I seen. My hunt partner had a mustang and quarter horse that were constantly stumbling and had less concern about their own safety which was not a good thing. If you're a barbarian who pushes life about then a horse is for you, sensitivity is what is needed for a mule and you will be rewarded with safe travel and great companionship
@@CliffGray I've owned over a hundred horses and half a dozen or so mules and I can't say as I have much use for a mule personally I just could never get along with them never did any packing in but using them in harness and riding them I'll stick with horses
In Chile back c.1800 they had a saying, "Don't choose the strongest mule but the one who reasons best." Pack trains went up into the Andes on some pretty sketchy roads and on even sketchier wooden bridges. The muleteers wouldn't go onto a bridge a mule refused to cross. Well, that's what a European traveler recorded back then. (Alexander Humboldt.)
I hunted in Idaho with an outfitter that had mules instead of horses. He told me that the mule was less likely to slip and fall off the side of the mountain with me on his back. He also said mules were much less likely to rear and buck if they saw a snake and throw me off the side of the mountain. Although ornery and stubborn, I was ok with riding a mule for the rest of the trip. The mule was ornery and stubborn, too.
My Grandfather, always owned a mule , to work with in his ranch /farm in Texas. He said they were more intelligent, and steady in their work. Though he was not poor and could afford any tractor he wanted, And he always had a tractor, he always plowed the family garden with a mule. in 1970 he died age 90, in the garden, behind the mule he was plowing with. The mule was found still standing and still waiting for his command.
My grandmother found him when he didn't come in for lunch, and she went to the porch to call him in. She became suspicious when she saw the mule just standing there, with the plow hooked up, in the field .
@@raywhitehead730 well hey, there are a lot of worse ways to go. he got out of here while gardening... I can only hope for an exit like that... breathing fresh air, outside of a hospital.
Mules are tough as nails, eat less, work harder, rarely get sick, have more stamina, better footing, smarter and more thinking, and have rock hard feet.
My mule is perfect. You couldn’t ask for better. She’s very intelligent, safe, and awesome to ride. I actually won’t go on pack trips or anywhere for that matter without her. She’s got good behavior with other animals and people, and is very gentle and tolerant of everything. She’s like the exact opposite of the stereotypical mule. She’s also really funny and tries to follow me everywhere. Always wants scratches and ear rubs. She’s my best friend. 🙂 I think we have that human animal bond cause she much prefers me over anyone else, you can tell she gets uncomfortable when other people start doing stuff with her. I guess it comes from doing everything together for years. I wouldn’t trade her for anything.
@@CliffGray Or the "inside"of those ears! Had a mule that eventually loved having her ears scratched on the inside. A young mule I bought from slaughter. She was sort of a handfull to begin with, as she had never been messed with, but she had a pretty good disposition, and kind eyes. She had the prettiest head for a mule I'd seen in a while. Almost like the head of a horse. ... She became a great saddle, and wagon mule!!
I have had the opportunity to ride horses and work with mules on guided hunts and listening to you describe them is spot on and educational. Thank you.
Great story and thanks for sharing your experiences. Old guy tells me that everyone should train 20 donkeys to pack first. If you actually get this done you get to train 20 Mules to ride and pack. Then if you survive this you get to train a horse. There would be no bad horse trainers !!!
My grandpa on my mom's side loved mules. He grew up using them and horses. He didn't care for horses but mules were the best thing in the world to him. I never used one but grew up riding horses and can't say I'm real fond of them lol. I always thought it was quite the impression they made on my grandfather as he lived in town and never owned another one in my life time yet he always talked about how much he loved them. Thank you for the video you got a new subscriber. This is the first video of yours I have seen.
I grew up with horses and have only had one mule. I bought her very cheap, $100, because she was a problem. She had been treated pretty rough and did not like or trust people. I realized right away she did not want to be ridden, so I only packed her. She turned out to be the best friend in the mountains a guy could ever have. I never had to lead her, where I went she went. If the weather or darkness made it hard to tell where we were going, I told her to go ahead. She would go out around me and the string and lead us back to camp or to the game we were packing out. I loved that mule.
I love it man! that's what they say, right? Everyman should get a one great woman, one great dog and one great mule in his life. Sounds like you got your mule!
There is a. Small town in the county where I live that was for many decades called mule town. This was where , prior to the common use of tractors ,everyone in the Eastern part of the state you came for a mule . Eventually the business switched over to the automobile . The backside of the building still has the sign , Pamplico Mule Co .
Thanks Cliff, you are so spot-on, i have had to explain this time and again to others, . I was born and raised Amish so i grew-up with both, hunted elk at both ends of Colo. with my own pack-mules, finely quit 7-8 years ago, in the mtns. mules just do everything easier and cheaper, better than a horse............
Buddy, this is absolutely unbelievable. My wife and I had a horse a few years ago named Pallandin. That horse you were brushing is an absolutely dead ringer. We just couldn't stop staring at it. God, what are the odds? By the way, I loved the entire video and now I'm subscribed.
My grsndpa had a mule. Sometimes he'd take my dad, (a very young boy at the time - approx 4 or 5 years old), with him. He'd pick him up, place him on the mules back and guide the mule along. One day, walking through the woods this way, my dad, tickled he was tall enough to reach the branches, grabbed one. He didn't know not to hold on. It jerked him right off that mules back and he broke his arm. I've seen a picture of him on that mules back. My grandpa used that mule to help clear trees for fields and used him for plowing, hauling and riding. Mules are very impressive animals.
you can talk about anything and i can hear it for hours bro. great stuff love from mongolia, we use horses frequently for rugged places. Quality knowledge
I owned and operated a pack station in the eastern sierra for 25 years. I got asked this question all the time. Your explanation was so spot on to what I used to tell people it was uncanny. The only difference is sometimes I would say “ mules are great as long as you don’t treat them like a horse “. Great video thanks
Ive been running packbgoats for around 11 years and got a 2 yr old mule a year ago..this last weekend i rode him for the first time 👍...he learns and has the same personality as my oldest pack goats...horses seam like a different animal to me (my wife has ) and i just havent connected with her like i did the mule
Cliff, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve had a couple of rodeo’s packing into the back country. Pack horses spook and we spend the rest of the day picking up scattered items and repacking. 😢
I would agree Pard, I have both and they both have their strong points. One thing that you did touch on is it’s hard to get a mule to go into a wreck where you can get a horse to go into a wreck to possibly eliminate a further accident. I have cowboyed much of my life, and picked up broncs, never saw a pickup man ride a mule. This would be one example of going into a wreck, to rescue a bronc rider. Many other examples, however I do love mules as well!
Well said, Mules are not for everyone, but they have super cool personality and it is a beautiful thing in rough country to give them the reins and watch their feet do the work.
Well said. The last little bit you said about sticky situations is the reason why as much as I have fallen in love with the big personality of a mule, I will always need at least a horse in my heard. My main competition animal right now is a mule. That intelligence is amazing. He's one that usually pees while I ride yet he understands the difference between the lap around the outside of the dressage Court and when we enter to do our test. Early-on showing dressage he peed once in a test but you could tell he was upset with himself for being unable to hold it, ever since he will stop to pee 1-3 x while we wait for the judges Bell for us to start the test, and he has never again done it well in the ring. And it helps him score better because his movement is much higher quality when he isn't doing that I have to pee waddle😂 Obviously not something I taught him, just something he understood in his high level of intelligence. Despite my extreme respect for his intelligence, I outride for many Teamsters, and it will always be better to ride my horse, because Huck will always tell me how stupid it is to get in and grab ahold of animals twice his size who are acting up🤔... have to say he is right, but him being right doesn't provide the Teamster's much assistance, so I will always have a slightly more stupid animal around😂🤷♀️ plus if I want to raise my next mule from the ground up, I do need a good-quality mare around.
Back when I was a teenager I was lucky enough to have met and known Vern Smith. If you don’t know who Vern Smith is I highly encourage you to look him up and read some of his literature on owning and training mules. In my opinion he had more knowledge about mules than anyone. He was a great man and I am happy to have known him as a friend.
When it comes to equines, I know Jack and Schitt - and unfortunately Jack left town years ago. But, I found this video interesting and I certainly learned a few things. Now, the instant you started throwing out big words, I had to run this video by my favorite local veterinarian.... my wife. She pretty much agreed with everything you said, just used different words here or there. About the only thing she won't ever agree on, is putting animals down the old fashioned way. She'd much rather have used the blue juice. That said, she's not one of those types that get all butt hurt about it, she just has her preference. I guess Mules, in terms of intelligence, or sort of like the border collies of the equine world. Which I thought was an interesting comparison. As pack animals go, I wish we had the property to have some. I'd have gotten two or three pack goats a few years ago if i had the space. My wife calls the the "dogs of the ruminate world". I'm sure they're full of personality, probably easy to keep and feed (goats will eat most anything), maybe even make good company, but can't pack as much as other pack animals. Maybe 20 or 30 pounds tops? (edit: looks like 50-60 pounds) Although, for someone who's usually by themselves, they're probably all i'd ever need or want. About four or five years ago I ran into a guy who was running 4 pack goats, it was the coolest thing I ever saw.
there are some folks really into pack goats. There is even a goat packing book. Someone sent me a copy. It was pretty cool. I can see how they would work well for someone wanting a more practical option. Great to hear your wife didn't tell you I was way off base! hahaha thanks for the comment
Ligers are cool but not necessarily a good example of hybrid vigor. Their huge size actually becomes a detriment later in life, because they don't really stop growing and their size starts to become more than their organs and skeleton can handle.
Hi Cliff Another top notch video. Your experience and knowledge are the gold standard as far as I'm concerned. I agree with everything you say in the video absolutely spot on. You missed a critical point when it comes to riding mules and is likely why you ride horses....the wide up front hurting your knees speaks to this but needs a little more elaboration. This has to do with mule physiology as you brought up. The mule gets its front end and sure footedness from the donkey as everyone agrees.. If you look at the donkey's withers the scapula motion is up and down for lack of a better description a piston motion. (Nod to Steve Edwards Queen Valley Mule Ranch...A great mule guy he may or may not be full of it when it comes to other mule knowledge but he is dead right in this regard ) A horse's scapula moves back and forth NOT UP AND DOWN. This lets your horse saddle fit tight around the withers and the saddle can stay in place better being tighter it doesn't want to slide back going up hill or work forward going down. And even thought it fits tight it rarely bothers the horse's withers. You have to have a different saddles for a mule with wider bars around the withers even the pack saddles. (unless you are from the 1700s and still use saw bucks but even a saw buck would work better for a mule with wider front.) (When I was in the army the instructors would stomp three times if a particular point was going to be on the test consider this my three stomps). This is why mule riders use britchens (I'm not a crupper guy whole nuther topic) and care so much about their breast collars as you alluded to. Also like you said you have be able to ride and know when things are getting wonky on your donkey helps tremendously. If you don't know this first thing you do is run out and buy a horse saddle with wither pinching bars and throw it on a mule. Well things go only down hill from there on out. Now you are never going to get the correct performance from your mule and in the case of a lot of mules you are going to cause permanent damage to their scapula/front end. Granted here are some mules that have horsey type withers that a horse saddle won't cause permanent damage. But this still does not make them a horse or give them a back and forth motion in their scapula. I have two with horsey withers but my third would be on the DL after a couple of rides assuming she didn't let you off gently against a tree whilst she rested her aching back. This can be seen on an ultra sound if you take them to someone with the scientific learnin. I know a lady vet at CSU in Fort Collins. I live in Colorado but most high end horse vets can do this. (You might need a to take out a loan before you go these folks don't work cheap.) So before you buy a mule for riding that has worked hard on a ranch or packing an ultrasound of his/her/ze/they/them withers is de rigueur before you purchase said mule. If you go to most tack makers they'll tell you oh this is a horse or a mule saddle. Sorry my friends there is no such a thing as a horse saddle that is also a mule saddle or vise versa. Imagine every time you go hiking in the mountains you put on a lousy pair of boots that pinch your feet or a back pack that pinches your scapula is a better analogy. You would leave it beside the trail after a few miles and pick it up on the way out to the nearest dumpster. This is a yuuuge problem for people that want the advantages of mules without realizing the difference in physiology of a mule. Mules can give you better performance in a lot of scenarios but you have to have mule tack and of course all the other stuff you went over. As Joe Biden would say three words, "horse tack is not mule tack". I can't wait for the next video keep em coming. If you are ever over on the front range (Pueblo) let me know we'll go for a mule ride. When they are hitting on cylinders there is no better ride up to the nose bleed seats.
Thanks a ton for all the additional info, for me and the other folks watching. As Joe Biden would say three words, "horse tack is not mule tack". - HAHAH! I'd love to go riding with you someday. thanks
@@CliffGray I remember at the Grand Canyon in the fall and winter after it would freeze, there would be little glaciers in the shady parts of the switchbacks on the trail. The ice was as slick as glass and would cover 15 or a 20 foot section of the trail. The hikers would play hell trying to get across them. Unless they had crampons on their shoes. If they didn't have cleats on their shoes they would just slide back down to the bottom of the ice. Our mules with winter shoes would just walk up the ice like it was nothing. And the hikers would just sit there and give us dirty looks as we went on past them.
I particularly liked the part discussing good mules vs. bad mules as it took me back to my childhood when I listened to my grandfather talk about horses and mules. Funny what sticks and what's forgotten when you're a kid, but I still recall him saying, "A good mule is a blessing and a bad one is a nightmare." The worse thing that ever happened to the reputation of mules are breeders who decided all they can do with their bad-minded, lame mare is breed it to a neighbors wicked jack in order to have something to sell. A special note to keep in mind anywhere you ride or pack mules. You're in trouble if you come into proximity with an elephant. A comical quote about the war mules in Burma, in the Mars campaign, (now known as Myanmar)... "And there were those two damned elephants someone at Regimental Headquarters picked up and brought along. A mule can get used to almost anything, but he draws the line at an animal that hangs down at both ends. Sensible, not knowing whether an elephant is coming or going, the mule is inclined to play it safe and take off, regardless of road, underbrush, leader, column, or common courtesy." Man, if I had a nickle for every time I got into trouble with mules because we came across an elephant. 😜
I would love to hear the history of mules in medieval combat all the way up to ww2, and I'd also like to know if there is any difference between a mule and a horse being trained to be able to shoot on for combat because I've been in combat and I think I'd take one of those pointy eared horse goats over a regular horse for sure lol
ever heard of Google? Get Google on the screen, and type in "history of mules in medieval combat". There's your background, then recall you didn't ride a horse or a mule in combat. Inconvenient, isn't it?
Gigantism in Ligers is considered a deficit / health hinderance, not a beneficial phenomenon due to hybridization. I don’t believe this is considered “hybrid vigor” if hybrid vigor is supposed to be a positive/strengthening of a hybrid animal. I’ll take your word for it in the case of mules though since I’m not well read in Equine biology.
My papaw farmed for about 65 yeats and prefered mules. He said they were stronger pound for pound, they wouldn't founder themselves with excess food or water. He said mules were smarter but may get their feelings hurt and require "handling" not whipping...
@@CliffGray I ride and train Arabian horses and prefer the “under bred” working horse type Arabians. Admittedly, I don’t have any mule experience so what do I know! I will say that when people describe the difference between a horse and mule, it sounds a lot like me describing the unique characteristics of my Arabians. Happy trails!
Yes, that is a scientific felony. Dominant genes and recessive genes describe what genes are dominant in expressing when both are present. Recessive does not equal a negative attribute, and dominant does not equal better traits. Hybrid vigor does not have anything to do with allowing more dominant traits to come out. That said, the rest of your video seemed very well researched and delivered. Thank you
Can you please make a video on the different horse and donkey breeds used to create mules and which do you recommend for hunting and riding for a variety of situations like farming, transportation, pulling heavy loads etc ?
From a distance Watch a mule carrying three little girls on country road one evening. Several wild/rogue dogs came out of a thicket and attacked the mule he tried to move around and avoid the attacking dogs but eventually the girls fell from his back . And the dogs tore into the little girls . Before i could make the distance on foot to help. The mule had turned and ran back into the fight . He wasnt leaving his herd ( the girls ) . It was nasty really nasty . The power he displayed was unbelievable. I forever knew horses and mules are not the same .
I’ve been riding and packing my mules for several years now, I’ll take a good mule over a horse every day, but it takes time and patience for both mule and rider to trust each other. The rider won’t force the mule into a sketchy situation and the mule won’t go where the rider might get hurt. It’s a cool relationship.
One downside to mules is their goddamn neck is so strong, like three horse necks put together. If they haven’t been been halter broke properly and learn to brace and pull, you’ll never get that out of them. Most guys that worked colts and mules will know what I’m talking about.
A bunch of horse/mule related videos are on this playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLJVWcO28moDTVUjfwEsQEtjK3U-cxIoEw I’m going to do a handful of new ones this summer and fall 👍
On the average, give me a couple of big, gentle mules for the backcountry. Of course I’ve also had great success with horses that were ranch raised who had been there, done that on ranches.
I've never been on a mule, and I'm no horse expert. I've probably only been on maybe 5 horses. A friend who does keep mules told me basically the same thing though. Mules have more of a self preservation instinct and are careful to not hurt themselves. So as long as you stay on the mule you will most likely be safe.
At the end of a guided 'horseback' hunt, I asked the Outfitter why they don't can the horses for the French meat market and go to all mules. He said some people think they have to ride a horse on a horse back hunt........
Had 5 mules. Rode one of them. Learned to trust thier instincts. Each one had a very pronounced personality. Amazing animals if animals is the the correct term.
Bob buys a mule from a farmer for $500, but when he goes to pick it up the mule is dead. The farmer apologizes and offers to refund Bobs money, but Bob refuses saying he can work with it, loads the mule in the trailer and drives away. About 6 months later the farmer sees Bob and asks how things went with the mule. Bob says great, I raffled him off at $5 a ticket, and sold 1000 tickets! The farmer asks weren't people mad when they found out the mule was dead? Bob replies, "only the winner found out, and I refunded his $5!!!"
Festus, from Gun Smoke, rode a mule. Your hat is kinda starting to take the shape of his hat, as well as your beard. Did you happen wear spurs that jingled when you walked? -It's fair question (hahaha) Right on Cliff, take care and be safe out there... I want you to know, I appreciate your videos. Again, be safe out there
As a horseman I really appreciate the honest no bs comparison, never had anything against a mule but horses more versatile for me when you use them for working cattle rest of the year your not packing. Plus I look cooler on a good old pony haha If I ever get a chance to rent a pack mule over a horse on a hunt I may do that since it seems that’s were they shine
Cliff, you show a buck in the snow in the first part of this video. Would you be so kind as to tell the elevation and season? Was he eating quakie leaves? I have a good idea, but would like to hear from you, if it is not intruding. Thank you sir.
That was during 3rd rifle season, first few days of November I believe. Our deer that time of year are usually hitting grasses in the aspens. Once we get a bunch of snow they move to eating oak brush leaves, mountain mahogany, and different types of sage and bitter brush. I also see them eating rabbit brush.
@@CliffGray that helps me tremendously. I am looking for an area high up by where i believe that buck was taken. Im going to start finding the new area by identifying transition range in the spring and watcking the green go up the mountain. Maybe I can find those brook trout areas you mentioned. I have one liw on the yampa but you fant get a tag anymore. Maybe every 4 years if you are lucky. Thank you sir for answering my question so fast.
My grandfather used to train unruly horses and unruly mules when he was a young boy so I do have a little bit of info on and when I was a young boy he was one of the judges at the mule and horse here in Michigan his saying was one good mule will out pull two horses any day of the week and the other saying was if you got to workhorse or mule that won't mind you can get yourself killed in a hurry and he would always have to throw this comment in if I can break a mule or a horse of a bad habit I sure as hell can break you if you don't straighten up. That's how things were done growing up on the farm in the sixties
@@CliffGray I don't know a lot about them cliff but I do know they're very intelligent I've been thinking about getting one just for companionship for me it would probably be hanging out with a couple beef cows I have a very small stretch of land here in Michigan and I don't particularly care for horses as far as I've taught mules are pretty loyal can I count on you for any info if I need it
@@CliffGray PS I could use a buddy I'm pretty sure I can get one from one of the guys I work with who farms with them and uses them for pulling contest and wins trophies I'm not going to use them for pulling contest just a friend possibly saddlebroke maybe pulling implement I don't know moral of the story goes all animals eat before you eat I have a very strong background about the way I was raised again thanks cliff
This is an interesting question. If a guy has an empty pack and is in decent shape, he can usually keep pace with horses/mules on the trail. The huge difference is around packing weight. A well packed horse/mule with 120-160lbs of gear hardly slows down. When a guy straps on 20-30lbs on up, in his pack, they usually drop to a pace of 1/3rd or so in the mountains. This is also what really differentiates mules/horses vs llamas and other pack animals… weight drives other pack animals into the grown. Horses/mules/donkeys are incredibly resilient to work and hauling loads. 👍
True mules are way better for packing, and doing work in tough country! When you sleep at night at camp as long as your fine with the sounds of Eeeeehhhaaa eeeehaa at night! Haha. Get a mule.
As an absolute novice on this topic, i happened to ask a trainer where I'm based if its possible to learn to ride mules instead of horses as a beginner but got a fairly dismissive answer, are mules appropriate for beginners?
When they’re old ( Did I hear you correctly) did you say you shoot them ? If so isn’t there a way to put them down by injection ( thinking that would be a more gentle way to pass) ?
I’ve done it both ways. Vets do the injections so sometimes they just aren’t available and it would be inhuman to wait. After seeing both ways quite a few times, if I was the horse I’d much prefer the gun. Both are very humane if person doing it has a little training. Instantaneous.
Bute, banamine (know how to use it), hoof pick, mini shoeing kit on multi day trips. Gauze, vet wrap, small chunk duct tape. Biggest thing is bute and banamine so you can get them back home where proper care can happen.
Problem with mules is: good ones may be expensive or priceless, bad ones are hardly worth dog food, and all can be smarter than the rider/packer. I love riding a good one though.
When my kids are old enough, I'd like to get them mules for their first mount. Seems they demand respect and hoping they'd help teach my kids to respect and care their mount or else their mount will quit on them.
Awesome video. I do have a question for you though. How do you feel with renting mules or horses? I went on a guide spring bear hunt in WY. I mentioned it to my guide about a particular outfit I’m going to rent from. He mention nothing but great things about the outfit. I called the outfit very helpful with all my questions and concerns. Should I pursue that outfit?
If you have the skillset to take care of them in the mountains, renting horses/mules is a decent option. A big chunk of disaster stories you hear are from people unprepared on the horse/mule skillset front. 👍
Would a mule bread from a donkey and an Icelandis Horse, make a good breed for Alaska, and what kind of horse breed do the Mongrols use, as I understand they are shorter, sturdier and built for cold artic conditions?
I honestly don't know. I have heard from BC outfitters that mules don't do as well in their wet conditions. Makes sense given the donkey has some adaptations for heat/dry.
either is fine. You can look at the other comments - some guys like riding a horse, particularly a mare, because mules strings get attached to them. this is very true.
I have horses, mules and burros. The main reason I don't like mules is because they're smarter than I am, and I just can't have that going on around here.
It's a good question. Regardless of the pack animal type, it's hard for them not to become a big part of your life. Horses/mules are the worst option for folks that are looking for a rational solution. They are the best pack animals, by far, but they are expensive, dangerous and involve a lifelong learning curve. I have known many folks that were happy with llamas. Pack goats.... they are so cool but the weight/endurance/etc... might be problematic. Wish I had a clearer answer for you!
Just like any horse or mule, if you find one with the right disposition they can become phenomenal riding or pack stock. Having said that, the vast vast majority that I have dealt with aren't worth the time. I think I've owned 5-6, and I regret buying all but 1.
A good mare mule , they’re all business! They will go on about how sure footed , smart, ect . able to safely pack valuable cargo in the mountains, then ride a horse, I guess their not valuable cargo ??!
Cliff I have wanted to buy a good broke mule for riding and possibly packing. I see from the comments that getting one from the Amish is a good start. I've had horses for years, but never a mule. Any suggestions or recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks
@@CliffGray I was in the Bob Marshall in the fall a couple years ago. I was the only one on a mule. We packed in and went out on the river in inflatables. We were literally the only ones on the river but saw a few groups packing in for hunting camps. His son got a llama and now they have a couple dozen and use them for their elk and deer hunts, etc. They carry a surprising load of 60 or 70+ pounds for their size, don't wander and find the highest spot to keep watch.More suited to hike and pack, but I guess some people will ride a horse or mule and have a string of llamas, but I have not seen that. Sounds interesting though. They are low impact on trails and masters of rough ground.
@@charlesspringer4709 I hear ya. I know several folks that really enjoy using llamas. They make practical sense. In my experience, my strings of mules hated the small of llamas. I always knew they were up ahead well before seeing them, just how mules would start ruffing their nostrils and perking up.
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Years back I knew a dentist, who wanted to start breeding race horses . He bought a bunch of high priced mares , and a very highly rated stud . Raised a couple crops of foals , paid lots of money for trainers . Then his neighbor brought home a donkey jack . Couple weeks the jack turned up in the horse pasture, her said no problem , the stud will keep it away from the mares . Next spring one of the mares threw a colt , 39 threw mules . To say he was pissed is a understatement. Next fall he found out the Packers in the mountains would pay more for a weaned mule than he was getting for started thoroughbreds . He sold his stud and bought a mammoth jack
HAHA! great story man. Love it
Love it
That is the BEST story! LOL Jacks rock!
Oh that's too funny!! I have 6 donks and I love em! Everybody says ah sell them donkeys you're not doing anything with them! Nope they are just awesome critters
I took a mule into the back country this year, snow, downed trees and treacherous terrain the whole time. He was unbelievably intelligent and I often gave up the reigns so he could choose our path through deadfall and snow, no surer footed an animal had I seen. My hunt partner had a mustang and quarter horse that were constantly stumbling and had less concern about their own safety which was not a good thing. If you're a barbarian who pushes life about then a horse is for you, sensitivity is what is needed for a mule and you will be rewarded with safe travel and great companionship
Lots of truth here. Love this comment. Thanks 👍
@@CliffGray I've owned over a hundred horses and half a dozen or so mules and I can't say as I have much use for a mule personally I just could never get along with them never did any packing in but using them in harness and riding them I'll stick with horses
In Chile back c.1800 they had a saying, "Don't choose the strongest mule but the one who reasons best." Pack trains went up into the Andes on some pretty sketchy roads and on even sketchier wooden bridges. The muleteers wouldn't go onto a bridge a mule refused to cross. Well, that's what a European traveler recorded back then. (Alexander Humboldt.)
You stupid f*** y** have to have horses to make mules get over it
@@donjones4719 love it! I don't know that I'd cross a bridge if they were looking at it with second thoughts! haha!
I hunted in Idaho with an outfitter that had mules instead of horses. He told me that the mule was less likely to slip and fall off the side of the mountain with me on his back. He also said mules were much less likely to rear and buck if they saw a snake and throw me off the side of the mountain. Although ornery and stubborn, I was ok with riding a mule for the rest of the trip. The mule was ornery and stubborn, too.
good mules are for sure a bit better in the trail environment! sounds like you had an adventure!
My Grandfather, always owned a mule , to work with in his ranch
/farm in Texas. He said they were more intelligent, and steady in their work. Though he was not poor and could afford any tractor he wanted, And he always had a tractor, he always plowed the family garden with a mule. in 1970 he died age 90, in the garden, behind the mule he was plowing with. The mule was found still standing and still waiting for his command.
that is an epic story! your grandpa was a true Mule man. thanks for sharing Ray!
My grandmother found him when he didn't come in for lunch, and she went to the porch to call him in. She became suspicious when she saw the mule just standing there, with the plow hooked up, in the field .
@@raywhitehead730 well hey, there are a lot of worse ways to go. he got out of here while gardening... I can only hope for an exit like that... breathing fresh air, outside of a hospital.
Mules are tough as nails, eat less, work harder, rarely get sick, have more stamina, better footing, smarter and more thinking, and have rock hard feet.
Pretty much 👍👍👍
My mule is perfect. You couldn’t ask for better. She’s very intelligent, safe, and awesome to ride. I actually won’t go on pack trips or anywhere for that matter without her. She’s got good behavior with other animals and people, and is very gentle and tolerant of everything. She’s like the exact opposite of the stereotypical mule. She’s also really funny and tries to follow me everywhere. Always wants scratches and ear rubs. She’s my best friend. 🙂 I think we have that human animal bond cause she much prefers me over anyone else, you can tell she gets uncomfortable when other people start doing stuff with her. I guess it comes from doing everything together for years. I wouldn’t trade her for anything.
That’s awesome. Nothing like a mule that puts their head down so you can rub the back of those big ears! 👍
@@CliffGray Or the "inside"of those ears! Had a mule that eventually loved having her ears scratched on the inside. A young mule I bought from slaughter. She was sort of a handfull to begin with, as she had never been messed with, but she had a pretty good disposition, and kind eyes. She had the prettiest head for a mule I'd seen in a while. Almost like the head of a horse. ... She became a great saddle, and wagon mule!!
I have had the opportunity to ride horses and work with mules on guided hunts and listening to you describe them is spot on and educational. Thank you.
Thanks John!
Great story and thanks for sharing your experiences.
Old guy tells me that everyone should train 20 donkeys to pack first. If you actually get this done you get to train 20 Mules to ride and pack. Then if you survive this you get to train a horse. There would be no bad horse trainers !!!
Bwhaha! There is some truth to that, I’m sure!
Would be a great horse trainer because nobody on this earth could possibly have more patience. And patience is KEY!
My grandpa on my mom's side loved mules. He grew up using them and horses. He didn't care for horses but mules were the best thing in the world to him. I never used one but grew up riding horses and can't say I'm real fond of them lol. I always thought it was quite the impression they made on my grandfather as he lived in town and never owned another one in my life time yet he always talked about how much he loved them. Thank you for the video you got a new subscriber. This is the first video of yours I have seen.
welcome. awesome story about your grandpa, too. Not too uncommon for folks to really develop a passion for mules.
I grew up with horses and have only had one mule. I bought her very cheap, $100, because she was a problem. She had been treated pretty rough and did not like or trust people. I realized right away she did not want to be ridden, so I only packed her. She turned out to be the best friend in the mountains a guy could ever have. I never had to lead her, where I went she went. If the weather or darkness made it hard to tell where we were going, I told her to go ahead. She would go out around me and the string and lead us back to camp or to the game we were packing out. I loved that mule.
Check out my post above to see why she didn't like anyone riding her.
I love it man! that's what they say, right? Everyman should get a one great woman, one great dog and one great mule in his life. Sounds like you got your mule!
There is a. Small town in the county where I live that was for many decades called mule town. This was where , prior to the common use of tractors ,everyone in the Eastern part of the state you came for a mule . Eventually the business switched over to the automobile . The backside of the building still has the sign , Pamplico Mule Co .
thats cool!
Thanks Cliff, you are so spot-on, i have had to explain this time and again to others, . I was born and raised Amish so i grew-up with both, hunted elk at both ends of Colo. with my own pack-mules, finely quit 7-8 years ago, in the mtns. mules just do everything easier and cheaper, better than a horse............
pretty much!
Some of my best crew and close friends, to this day, are Amish folks or guys that grew up Amish. Phenomenal with livestock.
Buddy, this is absolutely unbelievable. My wife and I had a horse a few years ago named Pallandin. That horse you were brushing is an absolutely dead ringer. We just couldn't stop staring at it. God, what are the odds? By the way, I loved the entire video and now I'm subscribed.
Haha! That’s cool. That was a great horse. His name was Rebel. Thanks for subscribing 👍
My grsndpa had a mule. Sometimes he'd take my dad, (a very young boy at the time - approx 4 or 5 years old), with him. He'd pick him up, place him on the mules back and guide the mule along. One day, walking through the woods this way, my dad, tickled he was tall enough to reach the branches, grabbed one. He didn't know not to hold on. It jerked him right off that mules back and he broke his arm. I've seen a picture of him on that mules back. My grandpa used that mule to help clear trees for fields and used him for plowing, hauling and riding. Mules are very impressive animals.
you can talk about anything and i can hear it for hours bro. great stuff love from mongolia, we use horses frequently for rugged places. Quality knowledge
Thanks Dex! I'd love to get out to Mongolia one of these days.
I owned and operated a pack station in the eastern sierra for 25 years. I got asked this question all the time. Your explanation was so spot on to what I used to tell people it was uncanny. The only difference is sometimes I would say “ mules are great as long as you don’t treat them like a horse “. Great video thanks
Ive been running packbgoats for around 11 years and got a 2 yr old mule a year ago..this last weekend i rode him for the first time 👍...he learns and has the same personality as my oldest pack goats...horses seam like a different animal to me (my wife has ) and i just havent connected with her like i did the mule
As a backpack hunter I would love to have a mule. I couldn’t imagine how much stuff 10-12 mules could bring. Like RV camping in the backcountry
Yeah, it's a bunch of stuff. Hahaha, 10-12 mules is a big guided camp. 3-4 wall tents, cots, etc... Nice backcountry camp!
Cliff, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve had a couple of rodeo’s packing into the back country. Pack horses spook and we spend the rest of the day picking up scattered items and repacking. 😢
I would agree Pard, I have both and they both have their strong points.
One thing that you did touch on is it’s hard to get a mule to go into a wreck where you can get a horse to go into a wreck to possibly eliminate a further accident. I have cowboyed much of my life, and picked up broncs, never saw a pickup man ride a mule. This would be one example of going into a wreck, to rescue a bronc rider. Many other examples, however I do love mules as well!
but it would be cool to have the one and only pickup mule - bwhahahah!
I always say a mule will leave the seen of the crime, they be like “bs, I’m out-a-here!”
"Mules Days" in May, in Bishop, California. Great if you can make it. Look it up.
I knew very little about horses vs mules but now I do.
Cheers🍺 from London, England.
cheers Joe! thanks
Well said, Mules are not for everyone, but they have super cool personality and it is a beautiful thing in rough country to give them the reins and watch their feet do the work.
for sure!
Well said. The last little bit you said about sticky situations is the reason why as much as I have fallen in love with the big personality of a mule, I will always need at least a horse in my heard. My main competition animal right now is a mule. That intelligence is amazing. He's one that usually pees while I ride yet he understands the difference between the lap around the outside of the dressage Court and when we enter to do our test. Early-on showing dressage he peed once in a test but you could tell he was upset with himself for being unable to hold it, ever since he will stop to pee 1-3 x while we wait for the judges Bell for us to start the test, and he has never again done it well in the ring. And it helps him score better because his movement is much higher quality when he isn't doing that I have to pee waddle😂 Obviously not something I taught him, just something he understood in his high level of intelligence. Despite my extreme respect for his intelligence, I outride for many Teamsters, and it will always be better to ride my horse, because Huck will always tell me how stupid it is to get in and grab ahold of animals twice his size who are acting up🤔... have to say he is right, but him being right doesn't provide the Teamster's much assistance, so I will always have a slightly more stupid animal around😂🤷♀️ plus if I want to raise my next mule from the ground up, I do need a good-quality mare around.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I appreciate being able to hear it from someone with a history with the animals.
Back when I was a teenager I was lucky enough to have met and known Vern Smith. If you don’t know who Vern Smith is I highly encourage you to look him up and read some of his literature on owning and training mules. In my opinion he had more knowledge about mules than anyone. He was a great man and I am happy to have known him as a friend.
Subscribed, like your info , looking forward to listening to your other videos
Thanks Joy!
Great story, man! Brings back great memories, although some of the words you use are new to me, had to look em up.
glad you enjoyed it! thanks
When it comes to equines, I know Jack and Schitt - and unfortunately Jack left town years ago. But, I found this video interesting and I certainly learned a few things. Now, the instant you started throwing out big words, I had to run this video by my favorite local veterinarian.... my wife. She pretty much agreed with everything you said, just used different words here or there. About the only thing she won't ever agree on, is putting animals down the old fashioned way. She'd much rather have used the blue juice. That said, she's not one of those types that get all butt hurt about it, she just has her preference. I guess Mules, in terms of intelligence, or sort of like the border collies of the equine world. Which I thought was an interesting comparison.
As pack animals go, I wish we had the property to have some. I'd have gotten two or three pack goats a few years ago if i had the space. My wife calls the the "dogs of the ruminate world". I'm sure they're full of personality, probably easy to keep and feed (goats will eat most anything), maybe even make good company, but can't pack as much as other pack animals. Maybe 20 or 30 pounds tops? (edit: looks like 50-60 pounds) Although, for someone who's usually by themselves, they're probably all i'd ever need or want. About four or five years ago I ran into a guy who was running 4 pack goats, it was the coolest thing I ever saw.
there are some folks really into pack goats. There is even a goat packing book. Someone sent me a copy. It was pretty cool. I can see how they would work well for someone wanting a more practical option.
Great to hear your wife didn't tell you I was way off base! hahaha thanks for the comment
Road a mule for years in N. Idaho and NW Montana. She was great
👍 if I could always find a good one, that’s the only thing I would ride
I hunt with my young kids or my old dad. So I am the mule . Hahah I am enjoying your videos , keep them coming
Bwhaha that happens! 👍
Ligers are cool but not necessarily a good example of hybrid vigor. Their huge size actually becomes a detriment later in life, because they don't really stop growing and their size starts to become more than their organs and skeleton can handle.
You are an excellent communicator.
Thanks John, really appreciate it. I'm working on it
Amazing amount of science and experienced based information in this post....👍👍
Hi Cliff
Another top notch video.
Your experience and knowledge are the gold standard as far as I'm concerned.
I agree with everything you say in the video absolutely spot on.
You missed a critical point when it comes to riding mules and is likely why you ride horses....the wide up front hurting your knees speaks to this but needs a little more elaboration.
This has to do with mule physiology as you brought up.
The mule gets its front end and sure footedness from the donkey as everyone agrees..
If you look at the donkey's withers the scapula motion is up and down for lack of a better description a piston motion.
(Nod to Steve Edwards Queen Valley Mule Ranch...A great mule guy he may or may not be full of it when it comes to other mule knowledge but he is dead right in this regard )
A horse's scapula moves back and forth NOT UP AND DOWN.
This lets your horse saddle fit tight around the withers and the saddle can stay in place better being tighter it doesn't want to slide back going up hill or work forward going down.
And even thought it fits tight it rarely bothers the horse's withers.
You have to have a different saddles for a mule with wider bars around the withers even the pack saddles. (unless you are from the 1700s and still use saw bucks but even a saw buck would work better for a mule with wider front.)
(When I was in the army the instructors would stomp three times if a particular point was going to be on the test consider this my three stomps).
This is why mule riders use britchens (I'm not a crupper guy whole nuther topic) and care so much about their breast collars as you alluded to.
Also like you said you have be able to ride and know when things are getting wonky on your donkey helps tremendously.
If you don't know this first thing you do is run out and buy a horse saddle with wither pinching bars and throw it on a mule.
Well things go only down hill from there on out.
Now you are never going to get the correct performance from your mule and in the case of a lot of mules you are going to cause permanent damage to their scapula/front end.
Granted here are some mules that have horsey type withers that a horse saddle won't cause permanent damage.
But this still does not make them a horse or give them a back and forth motion in their scapula.
I have two with horsey withers but my third would be on the DL after a couple of rides assuming she didn't let you off gently against a tree whilst she rested her aching back.
This can be seen on an ultra sound if you take them to someone with the scientific learnin.
I know a lady vet at CSU in Fort Collins.
I live in Colorado but most high end horse vets can do this.
(You might need a to take out a loan before you go these folks don't work cheap.)
So before you buy a mule for riding that has worked hard on a ranch or packing an ultrasound of his/her/ze/they/them withers is de rigueur before you purchase said mule.
If you go to most tack makers they'll tell you oh this is a horse or a mule saddle.
Sorry my friends there is no such a thing as a horse saddle that is also a mule saddle or vise versa.
Imagine every time you go hiking in the mountains you put on a lousy pair of boots that pinch your feet or a back pack that pinches your scapula is a better analogy.
You would leave it beside the trail after a few miles and pick it up on the way out to the nearest dumpster.
This is a yuuuge problem for people that want the advantages of mules without realizing the difference in physiology of a mule.
Mules can give you better performance in a lot of scenarios but you have to have mule tack and of course all the other stuff you went over.
As Joe Biden would say three words, "horse tack is not mule tack".
I can't wait for the next video keep em coming.
If you are ever over on the front range (Pueblo) let me know we'll go for a mule ride.
When they are hitting on cylinders there is no better ride up to the nose bleed seats.
Thanks a ton for all the additional info, for me and the other folks watching.
As Joe Biden would say three words, "horse tack is not mule tack". - HAHAH!
I'd love to go riding with you someday. thanks
I love mules. I rode them for years. I was a packer in the Sierras and a wrangler at the Grand Canyon when I was younger. They're great animals.
sounds like you have some adventures!
@@CliffGray I remember at the Grand Canyon in the fall and winter after it would freeze, there would be little glaciers in the shady parts of the switchbacks on the trail. The ice was as slick as glass and would cover 15 or a 20 foot section of the trail. The hikers would play hell trying to get across them. Unless they had crampons on their shoes. If they didn't have cleats on their shoes they would just slide back down to the bottom of the ice. Our mules with winter shoes would just walk up the ice like it was nothing. And the hikers would just sit there and give us dirty looks as we went on past them.
@@danishsailing4630 haha! you should have videoed that! 👍
Great information, well explained from experience. Thanks.
thanks Gordan!
I particularly liked the part discussing good mules vs. bad mules as it took me back to my childhood when I listened to my grandfather talk about horses and mules. Funny what sticks and what's forgotten when you're a kid, but I still recall him saying, "A good mule is a blessing and a bad one is a nightmare."
The worse thing that ever happened to the reputation of mules are breeders who decided all they can do with their bad-minded, lame mare is breed it to a neighbors wicked jack in order to have something to sell.
A special note to keep in mind anywhere you ride or pack mules. You're in trouble if you come into proximity with an elephant. A comical quote about the war mules in Burma, in the Mars campaign, (now known as Myanmar)... "And there were those two damned elephants someone at Regimental Headquarters picked up and brought along. A mule can get used to almost anything, but he draws the line at an animal that hangs down at both ends. Sensible, not knowing whether an elephant is coming or going, the mule is inclined to play it safe and take off, regardless of road, underbrush, leader, column, or common courtesy."
Man, if I had a nickle for every time I got into trouble with mules because we came across an elephant. 😜
Great video with lots of information 👍🏻
Thanks!
I would love to hear the history of mules in medieval combat all the way up to ww2, and I'd also like to know if there is any difference between a mule and a horse being trained to be able to shoot on for combat because I've been in combat and I think I'd take one of those pointy eared horse goats over a regular horse for sure lol
ever heard of Google? Get Google on the screen, and type in "history of mules in medieval combat". There's your background, then recall you didn't ride a horse or a mule in combat. Inconvenient, isn't it?
There's a guy on RUclips who has actually trained a mule for combat. Unfortunately, his name has escaped me.
Gigantism in Ligers is considered a deficit / health hinderance, not a beneficial phenomenon due to hybridization. I don’t believe this is considered “hybrid vigor” if hybrid vigor is supposed to be a positive/strengthening of a hybrid animal. I’ll take your word for it in the case of mules though since I’m not well read in Equine biology.
My papaw farmed for about 65 yeats and prefered mules.
He said they were stronger pound for pound, they wouldn't founder themselves with excess food or water. He said mules were smarter but may get their feelings hurt and require "handling" not whipping...
Sounds about right! 👍
Haven’t even watched the video yet and I’m already fired up!!! 😂
bwhahaha!
@@CliffGray I ride and train Arabian horses and prefer the “under bred” working horse type Arabians. Admittedly, I don’t have any mule experience so what do I know! I will say that when people describe the difference between a horse and mule, it sounds a lot like me describing the unique characteristics of my Arabians. Happy trails!
Yes, that is a scientific felony. Dominant genes and recessive genes describe what genes are dominant in expressing when both are present. Recessive does not equal a negative attribute, and dominant does not equal better traits.
Hybrid vigor does not have anything to do with allowing more dominant traits to come out.
That said, the rest of your video seemed very well researched and delivered. Thank you
Thanks for sharing the cowboy stories!
👍 you bet
Your appraisal is very true. Mules are smarter, tougher and more dangerous.
yep! thanks Burt
Can you please make a video on the different horse and donkey breeds used to create mules and which do you recommend for hunting and riding for a variety of situations like farming, transportation, pulling heavy loads etc ?
You are a good story teller. Thanks !
Thank you! 👍
I love my mule, Handsome Jack but I also have horses. Love them all. Jack has a wonderful personality.
Great info! From the Mule capital of the world "MISSOURI" The Show-Me-State!
From a distance Watch a mule carrying three little girls on country road one evening. Several wild/rogue dogs came out of a thicket and attacked the mule he tried to move around and avoid the attacking dogs but eventually the girls fell from his back . And the dogs tore into the little girls .
Before i could make the distance on foot to help.
The mule had turned and ran back into the fight . He wasnt leaving his herd ( the girls ) .
It was nasty really nasty .
The power he displayed was unbelievable.
I forever knew horses and mules are not the same .
That is wild!
They are amazing guard animals, particular ones more so than others. I bet that was a sight to see!
I’ve been riding and packing my mules for several years now, I’ll take a good mule over a horse every day, but it takes time and patience for both mule and rider to trust each other. The rider won’t force the mule into a sketchy situation and the mule won’t go where the rider might get hurt. It’s a cool relationship.
One downside to mules is their goddamn neck is so strong, like three horse necks put together. If they haven’t been been halter broke properly and learn to brace and pull, you’ll never get that out of them. Most guys that worked colts and mules will know what I’m talking about.
I hear ya.
The reality on mules is that an adult rank one can be almost impossible to deal with. “Mule strength” 😜
Cliff, would you be so kind to list the links to the other packing videos that you referenced here? I love learning from your experiences. Thanks
A bunch of horse/mule related videos are on this playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLJVWcO28moDTVUjfwEsQEtjK3U-cxIoEw
I’m going to do a handful of new ones this summer and fall 👍
On the average, give me a couple of big, gentle mules for the backcountry. Of course I’ve also had great success with horses that were ranch raised who had been there, done that on ranches.
I'm with ya!
I've never been on a mule, and I'm no horse expert. I've probably only been on maybe 5 horses. A friend who does keep mules told me basically the same thing though. Mules have more of a self preservation instinct and are careful to not hurt themselves. So as long as you stay on the mule you will most likely be safe.
Excellent stuff bro
At the end of a guided 'horseback' hunt, I asked the Outfitter why they don't can the horses for the French meat market and go to all mules. He said some people think they have to ride a horse on a horse back hunt........
hahahaha, there is a lot of truth to that!
Had 5 mules. Rode one of them. Learned to trust thier instincts. Each one had a very pronounced personality. Amazing animals if animals is the the correct term.
I have bred horses & mules & I prefer mules to ride.
I gotcha. same here!
We just got two mules. Never owned a horse, but so far these mules are pretty awesome.
By the way, what hat is that? I love that style. Thanks
That’s a kemo sabe hat… given to me years ago as a tip
@@CliffGray That's awesome! I'll check them out. Thank you for replying.
Bob buys a mule from a farmer for $500, but when he goes to pick it up the mule is dead. The farmer apologizes and offers to refund Bobs money, but Bob refuses saying he can work with it, loads the mule in the trailer and drives away. About 6 months later the farmer sees Bob and asks how things went with the mule. Bob says great, I raffled him off at $5 a ticket, and sold 1000 tickets! The farmer asks weren't people mad when they found out the mule was dead? Bob replies, "only the winner found out, and I refunded his $5!!!"
Festus, from Gun Smoke, rode a mule. Your hat is kinda starting to take the shape of his hat, as well as your beard.
Did you happen wear spurs that jingled when you walked? -It's fair question
(hahaha)
Right on Cliff, take care and be safe out there... I want you to know, I appreciate your videos. Again, be safe out there
👍👍👍
I only wear spurs walking around town, when wearing my swim shorts. Keeps people wondering
@@CliffGray Hahaha
As a horseman I really appreciate the honest no bs comparison, never had anything against a mule but horses more versatile for me when you use them for working cattle rest of the year your not packing. Plus I look cooler on a good old pony haha
If I ever get a chance to rent a pack mule over a horse on a hunt I may do that since it seems that’s were they shine
"Plus I look cooler on a good old pony haha" for sure and there isn't anything wrong with that!
Cliff, you show a buck in the snow in the first part of this video. Would you be so kind as to tell the elevation and season? Was he eating quakie leaves? I have a good idea, but would like to hear from you, if it is not intruding. Thank you sir.
That was during 3rd rifle season, first few days of November I believe. Our deer that time of year are usually hitting grasses in the aspens. Once we get a bunch of snow they move to eating oak brush leaves, mountain mahogany, and different types of sage and bitter brush. I also see them eating rabbit brush.
@@CliffGray that helps me tremendously. I am looking for an area high up by where i believe that buck was taken. Im going to start finding the new area by identifying transition range in the spring and watcking the green go up the mountain. Maybe I can find those brook trout areas you mentioned. I have one liw on the yampa but you fant get a tag anymore. Maybe every 4 years if you are lucky. Thank you sir for answering my question so fast.
Very interesting thanks for the video
Thanks for watching Mark! 👍
Good stuff . Thank you very much .
Glad you enjoyed it. thanks for watching
My grandfather used to train unruly horses and unruly mules when he was a young boy so I do have a little bit of info on and when I was a young boy he was one of the judges at the mule and horse here in Michigan his saying was one good mule will out pull two horses any day of the week and the other saying was if you got to workhorse or mule that won't mind you can get yourself killed in a hurry and he would always have to throw this comment in if I can break a mule or a horse of a bad habit I sure as hell can break you if you don't straighten up. That's how things were done growing up on the farm in the sixties
thanks Jeff - I think your grandpa knew a lot about mules and probably about life! haha, those sayings are spot on.
@@CliffGray I don't know a lot about them cliff but I do know they're very intelligent I've been thinking about getting one just for companionship for me it would probably be hanging out with a couple beef cows I have a very small stretch of land here in Michigan and I don't particularly care for horses as far as I've taught mules are pretty loyal can I count on you for any info if I need it
@@jeffgillette3364 for sure jeff, you are always welcome to send questions. thanks
@@CliffGray thanks cliff I know they're way more intelligent my grandfather told me that
@@CliffGray PS I could use a buddy I'm pretty sure I can get one from one of the guys I work with who farms with them and uses them for pulling contest and wins trophies I'm not going to use them for pulling contest just a friend possibly saddlebroke maybe pulling implement I don't know moral of the story goes all animals eat before you eat I have a very strong background about the way I was raised again thanks cliff
very interesting. Thanks!
thanks joe!
Are you covering ground faster on horseback vs on foot in the backcountry?
This is an interesting question. If a guy has an empty pack and is in decent shape, he can usually keep pace with horses/mules on the trail. The huge difference is around packing weight. A well packed horse/mule with 120-160lbs of gear hardly slows down. When a guy straps on 20-30lbs on up, in his pack, they usually drop to a pace of 1/3rd or so in the mountains.
This is also what really differentiates mules/horses vs llamas and other pack animals… weight drives other pack animals into the grown. Horses/mules/donkeys are incredibly resilient to work and hauling loads. 👍
@@CliffGray oh! That would be a great video, horses and mules vs Llamas and goats
Great video, thank you
thanks rick!
Wow! Interesting. A smart man. Thanks.
thanks David!
@@CliffGray Change nothing! My highest compliment.
This is the man I would hire to guide me.
thanks!
True mules are way better for packing, and doing work in tough country! When you sleep at night at camp as long as your fine with the sounds of Eeeeehhhaaa eeeehaa at night! Haha. Get a mule.
I love me some Eeeeeehhhaaaaaaas
As an absolute novice on this topic, i happened to ask a trainer where I'm based if its possible to learn to ride mules instead of horses as a beginner but got a fairly dismissive answer, are mules appropriate for beginners?
When they’re old ( Did I hear you correctly) did you say you shoot them ? If so isn’t there a way to put them down by injection ( thinking that would be a more gentle way to pass) ?
I’ve done it both ways. Vets do the injections so sometimes they just aren’t available and it would be inhuman to wait. After seeing both ways quite a few times, if I was the horse I’d much prefer the gun. Both are very humane if person doing it has a little training. Instantaneous.
What kind of medical supplies do you carry for stock on a pack trip? And how do you treat different wounds?
Bute, banamine (know how to use it), hoof pick, mini shoeing kit on multi day trips. Gauze, vet wrap, small chunk duct tape. Biggest thing is bute and banamine so you can get them back home where proper care can happen.
Problem with mules is: good ones may be expensive or priceless, bad ones are hardly worth dog food, and all can be smarter than the rider/packer. I love riding a good one though.
This can be very true. A good source of mules is hard to find. 👍
"Scientific felony"... good one.
Ha! 👍
If there is a shortage of mules in your area why not try setting up as a breeder? You could start with a couple of mares and see how you get on.
expensive to feed - takes awhile for that mule baby to come out and grow into using age
Whoa bro, you just called Napoleon Dynamite an old movie...
So this is what getting old feels like...
Miles are more sure footed because they are smarter. Period!
When my kids are old enough, I'd like to get them mules for their first mount. Seems they demand respect and hoping they'd help teach my kids to respect and care their mount or else their mount will quit on them.
This is the argument people had before gas vs diesel trucks
probably! haha
Awesome video. I do have a question for you though. How do you feel with renting mules or horses? I went on a guide spring bear hunt in WY. I mentioned it to my guide about a particular outfit I’m going to rent from. He mention nothing but great things about the outfit. I called the outfit very helpful with all my questions and concerns. Should I pursue that outfit?
If you have the skillset to take care of them in the mountains, renting horses/mules is a decent option. A big chunk of disaster stories you hear are from people unprepared on the horse/mule skillset front. 👍
Would a mule bread from a donkey and an Icelandis Horse, make a good breed for Alaska, and what kind of horse breed do the Mongrols use, as I understand they are shorter, sturdier and built for cold artic conditions?
I honestly don't know. I have heard from BC outfitters that mules don't do as well in their wet conditions. Makes sense given the donkey has some adaptations for heat/dry.
Only thing is those narrow slab sides and low withers…hell to saddle.
What is your thoughts on a horse vs a mule to lead a pack string. Doug from Calif
either is fine. You can look at the other comments - some guys like riding a horse, particularly a mare, because mules strings get attached to them. this is very true.
I have horses, mules and burros. The main reason I don't like mules is because they're smarter than I am, and I just can't have that going on around here.
bwhahahah!
Thanks Cliff I live in New Mexico and your right people here tend to use a pap
Pack mule for a hunting and all around outdoors thank you cliff
thanks Edgar!
So Cliff, is there such thing as a hobbyists pack animal? Llama or goat?
It's a good question. Regardless of the pack animal type, it's hard for them not to become a big part of your life. Horses/mules are the worst option for folks that are looking for a rational solution. They are the best pack animals, by far, but they are expensive, dangerous and involve a lifelong learning curve. I have known many folks that were happy with llamas. Pack goats.... they are so cool but the weight/endurance/etc... might be problematic. Wish I had a clearer answer for you!
Very true!👌
What about mammoth donkeys for your purposes?
Horses say: Let’s Gooooo!!!
Mules say: Hey, hey you… Are you comin’ with me? Better square up.
ha!
By the way we're and how much can man buy one in north eastern us
Try Amish communities that are using them. They can point you in the right direction. Cost is all over the place, depends on many factors.
This might be a stupid question, but what are your thoughts on a mustang?
Just like any horse or mule, if you find one with the right disposition they can become phenomenal riding or pack stock. Having said that, the vast vast majority that I have dealt with aren't worth the time. I think I've owned 5-6, and I regret buying all but 1.
@@CliffGray That makes sense. Thanks for the insight!
A good mare mule , they’re all business! They will go on about how sure footed , smart, ect . able to safely pack valuable cargo in the mountains, then ride a horse, I guess their not valuable cargo ??!
Cliff I have wanted to buy a good broke mule for riding and possibly packing. I see from the comments that getting one from the Amish is a good start. I've had horses for years, but never a mule. Any suggestions or recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks
Shoot me an email (email is in the about tab of the channel) I can send you some contact info of good folks
@@CliffGray I sent you an email 2 days ago. Were you able to get it?
@@JorgeGonzalez-be9vh shot ya a note 👍
whats an outfit mean like outfitter
Where is that? The Bob Marshall?
The mountains in the background is the Flat Tops Wilderness
@@CliffGray Ah, I have never been in that area. The altitude looks better suited to llamas :-)
@@charlesspringer4709 haha, those mules and horses do pretty good up there 👍
@@CliffGray I was in the Bob Marshall in the fall a couple years ago. I was the only one on a mule. We packed in and went out on the river in inflatables. We were literally the only ones on the river but saw a few groups packing in for hunting camps. His son got a llama and now they have a couple dozen and use them for their elk and deer hunts, etc. They carry a surprising load of 60 or 70+ pounds for their size, don't wander and find the highest spot to keep watch.More suited to hike and pack, but I guess some people will ride a horse or mule and have a string of llamas, but I have not seen that. Sounds interesting though. They are low impact on trails and masters of rough ground.
@@charlesspringer4709 I hear ya. I know several folks that really enjoy using llamas. They make practical sense. In my experience, my strings of mules hated the small of llamas. I always knew they were up ahead well before seeing them, just how mules would start ruffing their nostrils and perking up.