For those confused about the brownface trem, the small brownface amps (princeton, deluxe, vibroverb etc) had bias vary. Only the larger brownface amps like the Concert had harmonic. This was because to generate harmonic trem one needed 3 tubes; bias vary only requires one (ie can't fit all that into a Princeton)
@@goodun2974 In a dour moment, I sold my Feb '61 Concert years ago that was 100% original with blue Jensens. The guy ripped out the speakers to restore a Bassman with. Still pains me to think about.
I don't know about that-- Princetons are notorious for having shallow tremolos, my vintage 67 included. Uncle Doug has an interesting mod for those of us that like really deep tremolos.
Further complicating things, each tremolo circuit is based on modulating a waveform. Blackfaces utilize a triangle wave while small brownface amps use a sine wave (hence the differences people are hearing). Supros used a square wave (more psychotic than the others) and the mother of all, Vox Repeat Percussion which had a reverse sawtooth wave (ultra-psychotic)
Awesome vid. Tube tremolo is uber awesome. For uber awesome pedal tremolo sounds, I suggest people try the Source Audio Vertigo pedal. It has tons of tweakable options for different tremolos, from bias to harmonic to opto to leslie to tons of other types (specifically 20 other various types of tremolo). Side-by-side comparisons have been done between it and the real thing, and it's virtually indistinguishable from the real thing in real life listening tests.
These Vintage Amps( including the Gibson one)have a very interesting and distinctive tremolo sound-Have you seen the all new Fender Mustang LT25 Amp and the Fender Mustang Series of Amps? The Fender Mustang LT25 has tremolo sound in it
My Ampeg Rocket has an AMAZING tremolo. You can't make it sound bad, it's a bit smoother, with less of a convulsive sound and more of a swaying, half-in-the-bag sound. I actually find something rather disconcerting about BF Fender tremolo sounds. It's too flickery, like a strobe light that only blinks on and off, whereas the Gretsch and Gibson seem to ease you into it more, like having someone hold your hand when you're catching your first big wave.
I used to really love the trem on my Silvertone 1484 amp head before it died and I shipped it away. That amp had a really quirky reverb though...I don't know if you have enough but an Amp Reverb comparison could be cool. My favorite tremolo pedal that I have used is the Demeter Tremulator. Well I built the circuit myself but I love the range and tone of that pedal, for my tastes. I think your amp tremolos are generally going to be a little bit more pleasant than a bunch of random "trem pedals" which can get a little ugly in my experience. I guess the amps is where this effect originated anyway. Thanks for using my riff, haha, it's fun to hear back like this.
Thanks for being a part of this video man! Your down in the settings a collaborator. Yeah, amp trem is great. I'd love to get a stereo trem for doing the Weathervane stuff.
Alexandre de Sousa Carvalho gosh I really don't know. It is definitely deeper and a bit slower than the black. I bet a tube change on any of the amps would change the sound.
Creative Sound Lab okay I used headphones so I could really listen carefully, and I'm pretty sure it's harmonic tremolo, which works differently than tube bias tremolo. By the way, love your channel and love that gibson amp! Before I seen it in your channel didn't even knew gibson made amps and that they (at least yours) sound magnificent.
@@RobFlaxMusic Check the schematic, is bias modulating tremolo still... The Brownface Princeton only has the simplest tube tremolo there is, only using half of an 12AX7 to create an oscillation that is influencing the bias of the power tubes. Almost like an attenuator on your power tubes. Basically the same circuit as the holy Tweed Vibralux. robrobinette.com/images/Guitar/Deluxe_Models/6G3_Schematic.gif
Funny you mention Gibson trem amps, the tremolo is half the shot of my GA-8T. One super fun thing to do with pedals or pedals and amps, is to feed one tremolo (say from a pedal) into an amp with tremolo. You get some really cool lopsided rhythmic stuff that can be tailored to the song with a little bit of work. Tremolo is the BEST.
Throwing a mic anywhere at random near it yields great results - the worst sound I ever got out of it on a recording was "ok", but usually it's fantastic. Clean & warm to bright, but never piercing. The only thing it won't do is break up - stays clean when dimed, but I have other amps for that.
Had to take of the dust cover and check, but yes. Still has the wiring diagram, a tag on one of the knobs about winning some design award, and the warranty registration card, though I suppose it's a little late to send that in.
While harmonic tremolo was a staple of brown - or blonde- faced Fender amps, it was reserved to 45W+ amps (Pro, Bandmaster, Super, Showman) and so the brown Princeton is regular tube bias tremolo.
The Strymon Flint is a great pedal that covers most of these trems for someone who doesn't have access to all these great vintage amps, plus the reverbs on the Flint is just great! One advantage to the pedal is the settings are repeatable and it can be used with any amp of choice. Check the Flint out..its the only trem pedal that I've liked better than my old Princeton's trem.
I have a 66 gibson mariner and a 65 Princeton reverb. My Princeton sounds more like the brown one but not quite. And the mariner sounds just like the scout. And my 66 1484 twin twelve is a whole other sound
Man, the Fender remolos are great, the Gretch is more exquisite but the Gibson is so beautiful, it sounds like the guitar on Dionne Warwick's Anyone Who Had a Heart ( my precious ). I own a Dunlop TS-1 and a Boss TR2, which, I believe, can imitate the Fender, but now that I heard the Gibson, I'm sad. Any pedal sugestions to get close to that baby's tone? Thanks from Portugal.
Yep, I'm trying to catch up after 3 weeks now with gout in my foot. The day I did the live stream was the 3 or 4th day with foot pain. It's never done away and it put me up on the couch for 10 days. Then the cold I now have. I filmed this intro a few weeks ago, so I'm doing mostly editing to make videos until my voice comes back.
Damn. I kinda ended up immobile for about the same time, but I'm not even sick, just miserable. I should get off my ass and do some work, but god damn it's so hard. I hope you feel better quick.
I love those amps, they all sound great. I still haven't come around to buying some vintage amp, other things more necessary before, but I kind of dream of doing that some day... Of those 4 you tried in this video I like the Gibson the most, 'though they all sound great. Here in Europe it's really not that easy getting a vintage Gibson amp, especially if you really have a specific idea what it should be, you have to have the money ready and kind of wait 'till the opportunity occurs... I actually set my mind on a Farfisa f 20 Tremolo amp, they are good, their price is, I believe, lower then the actual value, and they are not that rare here, although, because of the age, they still figure as a sort of a exotic piece of equipment... I really don't need a very loud amp, I play in small clubs and bars and would probably use it only there and in the studio, where big volume is not a necessity... Currently I use whatever amp I find and a Boss FDR-1 pedal to get closer to my preferred sound... I would love it if you had some more tremolo amps to compare, like a Vox AC30, Sears, or Vibroverb or the previously mentioned Farfisa... And, yes, if possible, on some archtop guitar, all the videos of amps I find tend to be made playing a Strat or some other solid body guitar, I'm curious to hear how some amps blend with Gretsch Jet or Guild Starfire or Key Thin Twin...
In the early 90s i bought a rusty Gibson Scout at a flea market for 50 bucks, played with for a few years , the tremolo was wonderful. One day the amp stopped working and I gave it to some guy I saw standing on the sidewalk in front of my house in San Francisco with a tube amp. I told him I had a broken tube amp if he wanted it. I heard he took it to a 'guy' that night and had the tubes replaced and the amp sprang back to life. LOL yes i am still an idiot.
Now that I think about it, one of my favorite trems right now is actually an Arturia Microbrute. Use the audio in and the sequencer (and maybe filter and brute factor) to tap in not just rhythm but actual patterns. Start a sequence, but turn the oscillators down so the synth isn't actually producing notes- just using the VCA and envelope to gate the audio in. The possibilities are endless and if you get creative with envelopes and the filter you can get some really cool tremolo going on. Plus it's cheap as shit and a great synth in general!
Brownface P. changes the bias of the power tubes which is cool clever but eats power tubes compared to the blackface P. optical trem. Fender has a complete sleeper trem pedal, the newish ugly pedals that look like late 80s high school a.v. equipment, its got a sub mini pentode in it. It's orange iirc. Amazing pedal
I like the sound of the real old school bias modulated trem... the problem I find is it modulates everything including hum. You end up with a low frequency whump whump whump even with no signal which can be annoying.
I love my fender pro reverb trem, but the best, deepest richest one I've gotten to play with is on a old hospital cart (chrome rolling frame) Vox. Beat the fender badly...unfortunately I don't own a Vox....
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
For those confused about the brownface trem, the small brownface amps (princeton, deluxe, vibroverb etc) had bias vary. Only the larger brownface amps like the Concert had harmonic. This was because to generate harmonic trem one needed 3 tubes; bias vary only requires one (ie can't fit all that into a Princeton)
We based our Hypnotic Slam Effect tremolo on the Gibson Scout, but made a few changes to give it pulsating, cascading effect.
I love the harmonic tremolo from Fender’s brown face era.
A brown Fender Concert, best Tremolo I've ever played through...
@@goodun2974 In a dour moment, I sold my Feb '61 Concert years ago that was 100% original with blue Jensens. The guy ripped out the speakers to restore a Bassman with. Still pains me to think about.
That guitar intro from Bang Bang is great.. forgot how great it is..
Thanks! I wanted to do one special with the verb just to show it off!
I owned a 1963 fender concert amp. It had four 10-in speakers I had it for 15 years and it sounds identical to the Princeton.@@creativesoundlab
The Blackface has capacitors dying in there-those amps have much more tremolo than that.
I don't know about that-- Princetons are notorious for having shallow tremolos, my vintage 67 included. Uncle Doug has an interesting mod for those of us that like really deep tremolos.
Further complicating things, each tremolo circuit is based on modulating a waveform. Blackfaces utilize a triangle wave while small brownface amps use a sine wave (hence the differences people are hearing). Supros used a square wave (more psychotic than the others) and the mother of all, Vox Repeat Percussion which had a reverse sawtooth wave (ultra-psychotic)
What do want for that brown Princeton?
Your eternal _soul_ .
I’ve got a 90’s AC15 (Marshall built) with a very slow deep trem-just right for the last chord in the Yardbird:s “Shapes”.
Awesome vid. Tube tremolo is uber awesome. For uber awesome pedal tremolo sounds, I suggest people try the Source Audio Vertigo pedal. It has tons of tweakable options for different tremolos, from bias to harmonic to opto to leslie to tons of other types (specifically 20 other various types of tremolo). Side-by-side comparisons have been done between it and the real thing, and it's virtually indistinguishable from the real thing in real life listening tests.
The Vertigo is indeed a GREAT pedal...
My Gibson Falcon, which sadly was stolen, had this same awesome trem with speed and depth controls. I really miss that.
Cool comparison, which mic did u used ? thanks
These Vintage Amps( including the Gibson one)have a very interesting and distinctive tremolo sound-Have you seen the all new Fender Mustang LT25 Amp and the Fender Mustang Series of Amps? The Fender Mustang LT25 has tremolo sound in it
My Ampeg Rocket has an AMAZING tremolo. You can't make it sound bad, it's a bit smoother, with less of a convulsive sound and more of a swaying, half-in-the-bag sound. I actually find something rather disconcerting about BF Fender tremolo sounds. It's too flickery, like a strobe light that only blinks on and off, whereas the Gretsch and Gibson seem to ease you into it more, like having someone hold your hand when you're catching your first big wave.
Yeah I'd agree with that about the fenders. It's like it's sharper rather than a pushing in and pull out of sound. That's why I like that scout trem.
Exactly. The pushing in and pulling out IS quite pleasurable.
haha, you are the one that's gotta go there. And I never seem to see it until you say something.
Whatever do you mean?!?! Oh My!
the old ampeg jets from the sixties have gorgeous tremolo. thanks for vid, man!
I have some experience with the J12s. They differed a lot from each amp and year, but I can't say that I remember much about the trem. Wish I did.
I had a reverberocket and man, I loved that tremolo
My first real amp was a vintage reverberocket, the control panel got hot as hell, but the reverb and tremolo were exquisite
I love it all, tremolo is my favourite effect of all time
I used to really love the trem on my Silvertone 1484 amp head before it died and I shipped it away. That amp had a really quirky reverb though...I don't know if you have enough but an Amp Reverb comparison could be cool. My favorite tremolo pedal that I have used is the Demeter Tremulator. Well I built the circuit myself but I love the range and tone of that pedal, for my tastes. I think your amp tremolos are generally going to be a little bit more pleasant than a bunch of random "trem pedals" which can get a little ugly in my experience. I guess the amps is where this effect originated anyway. Thanks for using my riff, haha, it's fun to hear back like this.
Thanks for being a part of this video man! Your down in the settings a collaborator. Yeah, amp trem is great. I'd love to get a stereo trem for doing the Weathervane stuff.
Cool I need to get some more videos posted, haha
Hey Ryan, isn't the Brownface trem a harmonic tremolo and isn't that why the tremolo on that amp sounds so different from the other amps?
Alexandre de Sousa Carvalho gosh I really don't know. It is definitely deeper and a bit slower than the black. I bet a tube change on any of the amps would change the sound.
Creative Sound Lab okay I used headphones so I could really listen carefully, and I'm pretty sure it's harmonic tremolo, which works differently than tube bias tremolo.
By the way, love your channel and love that gibson amp! Before I seen it in your channel didn't even knew gibson made amps and that they (at least yours) sound magnificent.
Ok cool. and interesting.
I think the guys at That Pedal Show did an episode on tremolo that talked about the brownface harmonic trem... I absolutely love it (and the tone)!
@@RobFlaxMusic Check the schematic, is bias modulating tremolo still... The Brownface Princeton only has the simplest tube tremolo there is, only using half of an 12AX7 to create an oscillation that is influencing the bias of the power tubes. Almost like an attenuator on your power tubes. Basically the same circuit as the holy Tweed Vibralux. robrobinette.com/images/Guitar/Deluxe_Models/6G3_Schematic.gif
I'll admit to owning multiple amps just for the different trems...
Funny you mention Gibson trem amps, the tremolo is half the shot of my GA-8T.
One super fun thing to do with pedals or pedals and amps, is to feed one tremolo (say from a pedal) into an amp with tremolo. You get some really cool lopsided rhythmic stuff that can be tailored to the song with a little bit of work. Tremolo is the BEST.
Oh yeah that's really cool. I didnt have a pedal here but that's a great idea.
Ampeg J12 for me.. nails it. Somewhere between the Gibson and the Princeton.
J Howell, admitting you have a problem is the First Step! I'll see you in Group on Thursday at 6:30.
@@captainamerica9353 Funnily enough, I'm waiting for another tremolo pedal to show up in my mailbox this week!
Good stuff, man!
My 1958 (or59?) Magnatone Troubador is my favorite for tremolo, though coincidentally it is my only tube combo that has that feature.
Nice. I'm sure it sounds amazing!
Throwing a mic anywhere at random near it yields great results - the worst sound I ever got out of it on a recording was "ok", but usually it's fantastic. Clean & warm to bright, but never piercing. The only thing it won't do is break up - stays clean when dimed, but I have other amps for that.
Is yours the one with the silver plate and name on the top of the grill?
Had to take of the dust cover and check, but yes. Still has the wiring diagram, a tag on one of the knobs about winning some design award, and the warranty registration card, though I suppose it's a little late to send that in.
You can change the fastest and slowest speed and also the depth, by changing a couple caps and resistors in the amp.
I have a 61 Princeton but it has white knobs Cool pedal is the Diaz Tremodilla
The Brownface is the best !
My favorites were the brown fender and the Gibson Scout. The black Fender was almost not there, and the gretch was too dark.
i love your videos they are so well made
Great, now I need to buy all of these! PS: that Gibson amp sounds soo nice
It’s definitely harmonic on the brown Princeton
While harmonic tremolo was a staple of brown - or blonde- faced Fender amps, it was reserved to 45W+ amps (Pro, Bandmaster, Super, Showman) and so the brown Princeton is regular tube bias tremolo.
@@Olivil is correct. The trem on the brown princeton is power tube bias vary
The Brown Princeton and the Gibson for me. Both equally great trem but different. Great to have both huh? Lol
I have a 70 Fender pro reverb. I mix a very subtle tremolo to the clean sound. That's the secret sauce that makes the amp sing...
The Strymon Flint is a great pedal that covers most of these trems for someone who doesn't have access to all these great vintage amps, plus the reverbs on the Flint is just great! One advantage to the pedal is the settings are repeatable and it can be used with any amp of choice. Check the Flint out..its the only trem pedal that I've liked better than my old Princeton's trem.
That Flint pedal is super nice. The 60s verb sounds great on it. I would get it just for that.
I have a 66 gibson mariner and a 65 Princeton reverb. My Princeton sounds more like the brown one but not quite. And the mariner sounds just like the scout. And my 66 1484 twin twelve is a whole other sound
Man, the Fender remolos are great, the Gretch is more exquisite but the Gibson is so beautiful, it sounds like the guitar on Dionne Warwick's Anyone Who Had a Heart ( my precious ).
I own a Dunlop TS-1 and a Boss TR2, which, I believe, can imitate the Fender, but now that I heard the Gibson, I'm sad. Any pedal sugestions
to get close to that baby's tone? Thanks from Portugal.
Yay! Another CSL video!
Yep, I'm trying to catch up after 3 weeks now with gout in my foot. The day I did the live stream was the 3 or 4th day with foot pain. It's never done away and it put me up on the couch for 10 days. Then the cold I now have. I filmed this intro a few weeks ago, so I'm doing mostly editing to make videos until my voice comes back.
Damn. I kinda ended up immobile for about the same time, but I'm not even sick, just miserable. I should get off my ass and do some work, but god damn it's so hard. I hope you feel better quick.
The best amp tremolo sound I've heard is link wray Rumble, also the ebs trem pedal is great
I love those amps, they all sound great. I still haven't come around to buying some vintage amp, other things more necessary before, but I kind of dream of doing that some day... Of those 4 you tried in this video I like the Gibson the most, 'though they all sound great. Here in Europe it's really not that easy getting a vintage Gibson amp, especially if you really have a specific idea what it should be, you have to have the money ready and kind of wait 'till the opportunity occurs... I actually set my mind on a Farfisa f 20 Tremolo amp, they are good, their price is, I believe, lower then the actual value, and they are not that rare here, although, because of the age, they still figure as a sort of a exotic piece of equipment... I really don't need a very loud amp, I play in small clubs and bars and would probably use it only there and in the studio, where big volume is not a necessity... Currently I use whatever amp I find and a Boss FDR-1 pedal to get closer to my preferred sound... I would love it if you had some more tremolo amps to compare, like a Vox AC30, Sears, or Vibroverb or the previously mentioned Farfisa... And, yes, if possible, on some archtop guitar, all the videos of amps I find tend to be made playing a Strat or some other solid body guitar, I'm curious to hear how some amps blend with Gretsch Jet or Guild Starfire or Key Thin Twin...
The new Origin Bias Tremelo is amazing. For a different sound I like the Wazacraft Tremelo pedal.
In the early 90s i bought a rusty Gibson Scout at a flea market for 50 bucks, played with for a few years , the tremolo was wonderful. One day the amp stopped working and I gave it to some guy I saw standing on the sidewalk in front of my house in San Francisco with a tube amp. I told him I had a broken tube amp if he wanted it. I heard he took it to a 'guy' that night and had the tubes replaced and the amp sprang back to life. LOL yes i am still an idiot.
Now that I think about it, one of my favorite trems right now is actually an Arturia Microbrute. Use the audio in and the sequencer (and maybe filter and brute factor) to tap in not just rhythm but actual patterns. Start a sequence, but turn the oscillators down so the synth isn't actually producing notes- just using the VCA and envelope to gate the audio in. The possibilities are endless and if you get creative with envelopes and the filter you can get some really cool tremolo going on. Plus it's cheap as shit and a great synth in general!
Yeah I've played around with my Moog EG curves but it doesn't do sequencing like that. Really cool man. I'll have to check those out.
Brownface P. changes the bias of the power tubes which is cool clever but eats power tubes compared to the blackface P. optical trem.
Fender has a complete sleeper trem pedal, the newish ugly pedals that look like late 80s high school a.v. equipment, its got a sub mini pentode in it. It's orange iirc. Amazing pedal
I like the sound of the real old school bias modulated trem... the problem I find is it modulates everything including hum. You end up with a low frequency whump whump whump even with no signal which can be annoying.
Interesting stuff, but I’m not even sure the Gretsch and the blackface are working properly. The effect seems very subdued.
I love my fender pro reverb trem, but the best, deepest richest one I've gotten to play with is on a old hospital cart (chrome rolling frame) Vox. Beat the fender badly...unfortunately I don't own a Vox....
wow, the blackface is barely there
Cool!
Brownface, hands down.
Princeton brown all the way!
How about tuning your guitar.
gibson IS best tremolo of all this!
This guitar is out of tune....