Forza Horizon 5 And The Decline Of Post Launch Content
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- The past few months have exposed a critical topic needing a spotlight, and that would be racing game DLC and post launch content and updates. Personally, this is something that I have noticed ever since the launch of Forza Horizon 5, as it was immediately clear that the game was lacking heavily in comparison to its predecessor. Forza isnt the only game suffering from this however, and in this video I go over my thoughts on how games have evolved to prioritizing post launch content over the launch product, as well as how lackluster these updates have become.
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Chapters
0:00 Introduction
1:34 Forza Horizons Content Devolution
8:15 Gran Turismo 7 And Holding Back Games At Launch
9:40 Need For Speed Unbound Worries
11:07 Summary And Conclusion 
Игры
They need to add regular cars . Like mazda 3 and some others. Camry. Cars that folks actually own. Not just generic lambos all the time .
all types of old jdm and non jdm cars .. the fun of taking a sht box and make it fast a f
Go vote on forza forums for those cars
@@superninja252 that doesnt work . they add one from time to time
The way I see it, what we need is a shitload of Wagons. I wish i could drive around in an Impreza Wagon from every generation of the Impreza that has one, or any of the BMWs and Mercs. Alfa Romeo would be so cool too, if they ever decide to bring it back.
@@TotallyNotASpy1 exactly lmao they aint that rare lmao .. i want to get wagon and put a ferrari engine and make it a widebody .. he aint that hard
I think, what's happening at Playground, is a combination between corporate greed and being very out of touch with the community...
Greed is not beacuse it they were greedy theywould sell the reused cars like GT is doing
careful, Phil Spencer asked for players to not criticize devs... im sure he was talking about PG at the time lol
car culture cummunity
No, I mean maybe. But mostly I think they are woke AF. Well maybe not woke but insanely bad writing I am beginning to think 5 high school that likes to read can wright better lines then this extremely happy dumb ass tone. go watch white line review it’s the best
@@superninja252 GT doesn't have paid DLC. All car and track additions are free updates.
It's cool to see the FOMO being brought up on this topic, since the integration of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) its the main difference between paid content from previous forzas and the free content from the current ones, because although it increases the player retention, it affects the overall experience and opinions on the game from the player base, because it forces you to enter the game in order to get that car, instead of coming back to the game at will, getting returning cars as a reward for playing certain objectives in the festival playlist doesn't make it fun. One of the main solutions PGG could make is:
- Bringing the returning/new to forza cars to the autoshow (since their announcement on a festival playlist or the next month)
- Having special events for new to forza cars (changing the pace of the gameplay in order to mix things up, instead of making a championship or getting to 50% of the playlist in order to unlock that car)
- the introduction of new type of events, increasing the amount of things you can do, improving the gameplay.
- An overhaul on this festival playlist system, analyze it and see what can be changed or improved (prob for next title)
- Better planning (there's this good video from JakeMG about this topic named "Why The Forza Horizon 5 devs aren't lazy")
I feel like fomo is ruining games. I hate when a game says I have to do X to unlock Y before Z real world date and time. I play games for fun. Adding that real world date and time deadline is introducing an unnecessary level of stress to a leisure activity. This isn’t just a Forza Horizon problem but a games as a service problem. Games that use fomo are psychologically manipulating their players. People should be playing games. Games shouldn’t play people.
The Fomo stuff is one of the things that annoys me the most in Forza Horizon. I also play other things besides Forza. With me, the developers achieve the opposite of what they actually want to achieve. It makes me feel like I have to play the game rather than actually wanting to play it. Besides, I've never had the feeling with any car that it's worth it to drop everything for it because I'm running out of time. Then I'd rather just not play at all...
The Crew 2 seems to be on the path to getting rid of it's own FOMO model, with the Motorpass now being able to be bought with in-game currency and cars previously exclusive to the pass are returning, also purchasable with in-game currency.
yeah, and being forced to play a 20 minute long Cross Country Race just to get 3 pts... isnt the best type of fun... its a waste of time.
I really hate it.
1) What if I didn't follow what is happening that week and miss a car
2) What if I don't have enough time
3) What if I find out but point 2 happens when I find out.
The FOMO part is just really annoying and hurts the player in the long run especially if you're a new customer. Imagine buying the game now and not knowing how to get your favourite car because it was an exclusive during week 2 at launch
I'm guessing the reason Unbound added a small amount of cars is because of customization, they have to make every bumper fit every fender and splitter, or exhausts fitting different diffusers and that def adds a lot of work. The reason Rivals added 27 new cars is because they didn't have any customization. I hope EA sees the success of Unbound as a reason to give Criterion a bigger budget and more staff
Even with the amount of cars they feel more... quality over quantity, you get me?
I'd much rather have a smaller selection of cars and have more customisation options and improve the performance of a given car as you progress through the game. This is something Heat and Unbound have got right in my opinion. Forza having 500 plus cars has got a bit ridiculous really.
Yeah. Not so many cars like during The Hot Pursuit and Rival time, but the customization is superb
@@LumanatorRightHere small amout of cars and still no cockpit view, doesn't really scream quality.
@@heavy_ang_patay And you don't understand arcade games either from the looks of it. cockpit view is unnecessary in a NFS game.
can we also talk about that "huge donut" update?
they force you into an event when you boot the game, the event is nothing new at all, just another "get there in x time" thing and then the characters look nothing like their real life counterparts. and that was supposed to be a huge deal of an update
One of the my biggest gripes was how much they hyped up functional convertible tops, and then only having a small handful being actually available. Still no convertible MX5, Z4, MB SLK, etc.
Some of the car models in Forza are practically ancient now. Like the E36 for example.
@@dan44zzt231 exactly you can’t even change the wheel offset
Thank you for mentioning Lancia and Alfa. They're very dearly missed in FH5. I remember back when the whole 'Country Grand Prix' series had really bad car choices with the italian team, which primarily only focused on Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Maserati; all of which offering very little in terms of 'offroad' cars, while other nations had their full-on rally cars (and more manufacturer diversity), the italian team had to settle for 2 Lamborghini SUVs, and a Maserati SUV.
I was thinking, if it is Stellantis' fault, why are there Dodges, Chrislers and Jeeps in the game?
@@rijjhb9467 Vauxhall too and Peugeot - but only their racing cars.
@@rijjhb9467 because it affected stellantis in europe not the american branch
I went looking for the delta s4 and the stratos and my heart was shattered
@@Supraifyification and a Holden badged as a Vauxhall as well
The funniest part is there are some accolades where you need cars that were cut from FH4, meaning that some of them are unobtainable to this date.
Also in the FH2 anniversary there's a 2012 AM Vanquish which isn't in the game neither.
And I'm still surprised to continue watching people defending the updates like they were the biggest thing ever, when they only add content that were cut and not giving new gameplay features like genuine new stories (with cutscenes, not like Donut Media one) and many more.
we have less content in fh5 than fh4 and people gave this game a 10 out of 10 lmao
@@tugzzcouncil485 journalism. you won't get it 🚬
Lets be blunt and call it by name:
Its the Console Fan Wars...
People who have never played a certain Game defend their Game and attack the other Game for no reason at all.
(I play both GT7 and FH5, tried a bit FM7, but that I didn't enjoy).
And I agree that the Problem with both Games (FH5 and GT7) is content and how the Content is used and how/what kind of Rewards you get...
In GT7 the Rewards are a bit low for many races, in FH5 the Rewards are a bit high and make the Cars feel cheap...
the only thing i could see defending is most of the licenses are likely by game, not a perpetual or universal license in most cases, but this would only be the case for a few cars/brands
@@owenoreilly_20 well they need to give us the car x or the gta 5 thing . where they look the same but it isnt called the same
The way Forza has been handling it's car lists since FH3 is one of the reasons I have grown cold to the series. I preordered FH4 only to find that the cars I really loved in FH3 were not there, some never to come back again. Seeing the same thing happen in FH5 is one of the reasons I not only didn't pre-order, but played on game pass for two weeks then never went back to again.
It reflects really badly on the dev team when they take the player base for fools, whom they can take away content from just to put it back in like they've done us a favour. It wouldn't be so bad if it was logical, such as one brand (like lancia for example) but there seems to be a 'throw a dart and the car it lands on becomes post launch content' approach which makes me not want to give them any money.
Agreed, but it's not the dev team that make these decisions. Those guys just code/design/make stuff. It's probably upper management or a dedicated content delivery team
cuz they dont know what car culture is lmao why would you get skirts on a damn wheels spin
The AMG Black Series is nowhere to be seen since FM7 💀
It takes serious balls to admit you pre-ordered a video game.
@@Alex-xt9hn we all make mistakes 😂 after enjoying FH3 I felt like FH4 would be a slam dunk, but no
I feel disappointed of forza horizon 5 lack of content because they always recycle cars and also later add once car as well
And develop also fools themselves since they doing this they royals customer player will go to others game now since they already not longer trust them since how downfalls they became and forza keeps ignore community I have to say next horizon game will not sale well since most players mind didn't want other same game since horizons 3 over and over again with cut cars content
Recycling its okay but the way they recycling a car nobody wants its the prove that pg is so detached from community
Basically the same game with a new map.
@@mrjdmtunerboy.1463 forza devs dont know us bro . we just want to turn and old jdm sht box in to something crazy with a widebody or whatever .. . they dont know car culture and the game will die because of it nfs as well for not having decent handeling
@@sehhmie5483 they can recycle cars but they need to give us costumization like the one in nfs unbound . cuz i dont like losing cars
Modern gaming is in a constant trap to make live service games, and the racing genre has been no exception to it, it's just finally rearing it's head when it comes to issues relating to lacking content, and Forza is the poster child right now.
I remember the concept of post game content being interesting new content, such as in the form of an expansion, or DLC packs that add more content that was either requested by the community or was being cooked up by the developers, like the Big Surf Island dlc for burnout paradise, the monte carlo pack for DiRT 3 (I hope you can make a video on this game btw), and so on, but now it's being relegated to stuff that was either promised, oh which was cut deliberately, or stuff we've already seen before, and if there's one thing I'm seeing people want, is actually new content, whether it's cars, a new map expansion (the hot wheels stuff was fine and all, but FH3 already had it as well), etc
and not having people that know about car culture making racing games . forza has amazing handling but lacks the style and the costumization .. nfs has amazing costumization and look but it lacks the handling even just a simple one .
@@tugzzcouncil485 nfs sometimes even lacks good cop chases, which was supposed to be it's main selling point, and sa huge part of what made that franchise unique to begin with
This is why I laugh at people hailing gamepass (and even calling it "pro-consumers"). Beware of what you wish for.
@@rijjhb9467 that's a whole can of worms on it's own, but to sum it up, it's another thing to add up in the decline of video game preservation and true ownership, quite possibly
It felt like back then you got a complete game and a few dlc packs to spice things up now you get a half completed game and it’s finished over a period of time
I think to put it accurately you get half the car list and it’s finished over time
I can justify Unbound having fewer cars than Most Wanted 2012 because Unbound has FAR more customization options. I just hope they add more cars in the future
I hope they release a Toyota DLC pack at some point 🥺
@@dan44zzt231 not a fan of JDM, but you guys deserve more cars than just Nissan.
@@dan44zzt231 I really hate to say this but we won’t… ever Toyota does not want their cars branded as “street racers”
@@tippyish6462 it's not about street racing, they have no problem being in the wangan midnight games. they're just expensive to license.
@@dan44zzt231 Toyota, as well as being *very* Expensive to License, it appears also, possibly, that they do not want to be in Games that Contain Cop Chases either anymore (if you look at the Games they have come back to, some do indeed have Street Racing in them, but *none* have Cop Chases!) and given EA broke a *Massive* "Using the N Word" Level, Societal Taboo in terms of Japanese Culture with that "Pfft, Nerds" Rubbish, (Insults, even made in Jest, are Equivalent to using the *N Word* in Japanese Culture! a *massive* Taboo!) , I would not be surprised if Toyota even blacklists EA.
I recently got into a discussion with someone defending FH5 for the recycled cars. They said "who cares? It's free updates and free content." And this video perfectly encapsulates why that mindset is a problem. Just because it's "free" doesn't mean it's good. I paid for the game to find cars cut from the last game and being drip fed to us once a week for a month. The most recent 2 (aka December 2022 and January 2023) updates and the previous 2, before that, we're getting a total 17 total cars. Of that 17, 5 of them are new to Forza and 12 of them are "new to Forza" meaning recycled. And this isn't a problem to the developers at all??? They aren't updating these out of date car models, they aren't giving them new customization from real life parts with licenses they already have in the game, it's literally just porting the old models into the FH5 engine and calling it a day.
If the same treatment were given to a fifa, nba or madden game people would be so upset, but since it's a racing game no one really respects it for some reason
People like that are one of the reasons the gaming industry is where it's at now.
@@Jaxan-dq2jy exactly it's SO weird
@@en3myspott3d54 fr, which is why I'm glad games like NFS Unbound and such take risks and change what they do with each game. Even if it misses sometimes, they're not trying the same shit over and over
@@succulenttrash3343 I think it's just the nature of the sport and it's niche, most car people just mod their own car instead of playing games, and while all sports are complex and strategic, racing has double the barrier of entry because you need to understand the car itself and read your opponents strategy, whereas in things like football you just need to be able to play well and have a capable body (that's another barrier in itself, but most sports fan's aren't health nuts y'know? but in racing games you are forced to be a mechanic)
I'm glad FOMO is mentioned in the video. That is by far the biggest problem I have with forza for example. I honestly would prefer no update at all then an update that gives me chores to get a reward I already had in the last game. I personally get on fh1 up to fh3 for this reason. I can go at my own pace without having any problem of FOMO. Fh3 did it the best with the old Forzathon system (longer period of time with enjoyable challenges).
It feels like this game is just a map update of forza horizon 4 but somehow less enjoyable. I think they should just put fewer updates but make them higher quality to engage people.
Just some small corrections about Unbound.
1) While there was a difference of 3 years from Heat to Unbound, the game technically didn't get developed in 3 years, but instead, on 2 years. This is because in one year Criterion had to help on the development of Battlefront 2042 because EA said so, forcing then to temporally stop the project. Unbound got delayed because of it (and there were people asking to not be delayed).
2) Unbound actually got 13 new cars, not 9. Not trying to defend that small roster (because that's the thing that disappointed me the most), just a small correction.
Need for speed isn't a car collecting game like forza.
Honestly, with the amount of new high-quality visual upgrades added to cars in Unbound, i am completely fine with only having 13 new cars total.
imo, having 150 super-customizable cars is much better than having 250 cars that can only be upgraded internally (for NFS, at least)
@@floodedcarb7028I know, but only 13 new cars? That's something you would get in 2 consecutive updates in any other game.
They didn't have to help BF2042 for one year. It was announced in early March 2021 and in mid November 2021 Tom Henderson reported that studios that helped BF2042 were transitioning back to their own projects.
I seriously don't know where people get that they helped them for one straight year when there is clear proof laid on the floor that they clearly didn't. Also in addition to that, if you really think there wasn't a small team of NFS devs still working on NFS22 bts, you don't know how big projects are managed
@@ashar8192 Just because it was announced in 2021 doesn't mean it started there lol
And small team is a small team, they can't do anything major
God i feel so ripped off for buying FH5 Ultimate, for a game that gives koenigseggs and bugattis to every player, has clear issues with money, bugs, glitches and wheelspins, getting 2 wheelspins and double credits for races giving you 10k for 30 dollars feels like paying a fucking dominatrix to spit and step on me
Thank you moses, for a time i couldnt quite put my frustration into words but you did just that. Its so sad to see the lack of effort from them recently.
As someone who plays mobile games like CSR and Asphalt 9, I think the difference in car lists is honestly a part of the same FOMO issue that Forza has. The car list has hundreds of the most current concept cars unlike Forza, but they have similar limited time events to unlock said cars that can be really time consuming and even convince players to spend real money to get ahead . Of course the cars themselves are great, but the path to get them is much longer and relies on player retention in a much more taxing way than the Horizon games ever did in my opinion
More than cars, i would actually prefere that horizon 5 recieves new event types, tracks or something of a progression system like in the hotwheels dlc. Or better yet bug fixes and a cleaner rivals leaderboard. I own about 350 cars in the game, just adding more to them doenst do anything for me.
Yes! New event types and new things to do is as good, if not better than getting new cars, it doesn't need to be something breathtaking, just something like a new "dakar" inspired cross country event, or rally races with joker laps could be quite fun.
Those bug fixes and cleaner rivals leaderboards that you mentioned are still happening, just not to a big degree because it takes effort to analyze those cheated lap times. The one thing I would like is to them being more open with that subject, because they mention the cleaning leaderboards topic on the forza monthly streams, it would be cool if they talk about it on Torben Tuesday or another time of the month.
Yep. I dont understand this car collection fetish people have. As if it matters that there is one or two more cars in your garage that can collect dust, as they usually have the same boring customization options (khm Forza Aero and Front Splitter) as any other car.
As for the tracks, they could just improve the eventlab, simple as that. Make it easier to build tracks, especially smooth surfaces like roads. And a better menu view for the eventlab creations. That alone would mean many new tracks
fr i already said this on alot of fh5 criticism videos that the game is justoverall unfun, wish rally was actual rally with co drivers again (imagine multiplayer co-op where your friends have to warn you with pre voice recorded messages for the track)
Hot wheels DLC Was so bad
Would've preferred a F&F, even if it's the same thing, but it's a street racing theme which fits Horizon setting perfectly, giving FH5 a hot wheels expansion again was a big mistake
@@horvathr95 I rather have more cars than more customization, but adding more customization is still welcome
When it comes to GT7 with returning cars I wouldn't complain as much cause usually these are remade, completely new models, with even more detail than before, going for as photorealistic results as possible (there's a reason they don't put out 10+ cars per update).
Meanwhile Forza, reuses the same models, sometimes with the least effort put in. We still have awful 15yo models from FM2, which are the worst models you can find in AAA racing titles today.
Some of those old car models date back to as far as the *original* Motorsport, just with a bunch of optimizations to make them look a little nicer. It’a also why some cars like the S14 have really weird 2000’s tuner style body kits
(The ones that I recognize are the Silvia S14, Skyline R32, and blobeye WRX, but there are probably a few more)
@@sixtakefives5325 Don't forget the almighty... the S15...
I think that's the reason why GT7 has less cars ?
Focusing more new and better rendering model with much more detail ??
@@natecollins9331 pretty much yeah, GT models compared to Forza's are lightyears ahead when it comes to accuracy and detail (although, not always perfect, there are some mistakes made but generally, they're just great).
you do realise your comparing a simuation racer to an arcade game in regards to graphics
The lack of new models of existing cars is infuriating. FH5 still has the old Fiesta ST, the old Continental GT, the old Golf R etc etc. I haven't been on the game in ages (which is telling in itself) but last I looked there was still no GR Yaris which seems like a huge omission
Don't forget the blatant butchered Silvia S15, been like that since Forza Motorsport 2 (2007) 15 years!
@@eugeneanderson8706 same with E36. The proportions are weird. Don't think the models changed since FM4. Looks so out of place
@@eugeneanderson8706 Funny you mention Motorsport 2, I went back and played that game for nostalgia a few months ago, and it is absolutely INSANE how many cars STILL have same exact customization or don't have any customization at all to this day 15 years later.
@@dan44zzt231 You're giving them too much credit, a lot of car models haven't changed since Forza Motorsport (2005) on the original Xbox.
The newer Toyota cars seems under contract with Gran Turismo, sadly Forza needs this exclusivity contract to end so they can put they cars
remember when we got 3 cars from 2017 during FM6's launch in 2016???
If the gaming press were willing to call these companies out for their lack of after sales service and content, maybe things would change ? But it looks to me like they have all being bought off, maybe that is why they give glowing reviews and ten out of ten scores, for bug ridden, boring games, that they have barely played ?
Good video by the way, well presented too.
You can't just blame the "Gaming Press", as they have to work with the Companies in some way. (that isn't a defense, just to keep in mind).
You have to talk about the Users and the people defending Forza at all cost, always and every time. And all the bad things that Forza does.
FOMO is one thing, but also the worth of cars gets completely skewed and cars feel kinda worthless as you get really expensive cars far too easy, after just 10-15min of Gameplay...
Heat's car list is solid, make sense for me they add just more some cars for Unbound. NFS car lists looks the same since 2015 tbh
Minus supra
I found out shortly about your channel. And about that video 10 months ago.
Chapeau to you. Getting it right so early and not just ranting, but giving such constructive criticism, while heading the problem nail on.
You are a gem as content creator. Thank you!
Thanks for that!
It's a slap in the face to have cars from the last game be Day-1 DLC in the next.
Interesting video.
I mean i don't play Forza but i always though they were having new cars until i saw many videos, including yours talking about the lack of *new* content
NFS Unbound review, when?
December 21st, still got a lot of work to do
Couldn't say it better about GT7. I put blind faith in Polyphony magic and now my 25th anniversary steel book serves as a hollow reminder that even your heros could give less of a shit. I think the worse offender is they added a weather radar that works for like what, a 1/3 of the maps because they couldnt be arsed to program rain? Like you're telling me it wouldnt rain in a boreal-ass Deep Forest Raceway? What a joke.
This video just reminded me of the tweet from the Forza Horizon Twitter account, where they were essentially trying to gloat about all the stuff released in the past year, that felt extremely disingenuous when you actually looked into it
I get the feeling that playground games has gotten complacent after horizon 3. Every new horizon game that comes out is always met with unending praise from game critics, journalists and casual fans who would usually never touch a racing game. Playground has no reason to improve the game’s formula, they’re getting the sales, the good reviews and the praise from those casual fans, they don’t have a reason to act on the feedback of hardcore fans.
3:33 oh man, the instant nostalgia that hit me with that song in the background from a game i used to play a lot on my PS1, NFS High Stakes!
It’s amazing to see the rise of your channel, from the start you content has been extremely high quality. I remember when I would watch your videos and be surprised they only had a couple hundred views. Congrats man.
Very valid points as always, MO. That comparison between FH3 and FH5 in regards to new cars was shocking!
What I have noticed is that Forza Motorsport 7 was the last game of the paid dlc era. I am not sure how much of an impact it had, but it is worth noting the the game was a disaster for turn10 compared to what they were used to. To those of you who still own it, go back and try it now as the bugs are pretty minor now and it is awesome. More importantly, because of the bugs and the paid DLC, I don’t think people were willing to go back to it. Subsequently I wonder if Motorsport 7 was the catalyst for free updates in horizon 4 and 5
I caught that NFS High Stakes ost in the background. You a real OG for that
The issue is that games arent made for an audience. Audiences are made for games.
Its more likely a studio lead is asking "who do we want playing our games" rather than "What do the people who play our games want"
10:35 frostbite wasnt new to nfs at the time. black box had already made the run on an earlier version of it
That NFS IV soundtrack in the background 👌
I like how you played old Need For Speed tracks in the background. Nice touch
Forza Horizon is becoming the Electronic Arts’ NFL, NBA, and FIFA titles of the racing game world lol.
Hey Moses, I just found your channel, I love your content and I’m surprised you don’t have more subs, especially considering the quality of your work. Your takes on these games is also really respectable
Hey, thanks!
Thanks for giving this some attention, FH seems to get away with it more than any franchise out there.
But people had the chance to make noise about this 4 years ago when it arrived in FH4 and not enough did so it's no surprise it's carried on into the next title, changing to live service hasn't been a good thing for any AAA series to date and FH is no exception.
I am purely speculating but i could imagine that competitors locked down some brands/models into exclusivity deals.
You Are my new favorite youtube, i love your kinds of videos and how you actually talk and show real emotions about the Horizon series and how fucking bad it has gotten, and how bad it will proceed to get if we dont do anything about it. Keep doing your videos, not just the ones about forza, i know alot of people enjoy them, i certainly do 😊
Babe, wake up. New Moses B video just dropped.
Yeah, I tried mentioning FOMO tactics with new cars on an official Forza forum and they immediately deleted my post and the whole thread
mose and I were literally just talking about how youtube does that and how awful it is, sorry to hear this happened, but we appreciate you anyway
I think i can say for the high majority that we liked post launch DLC's It was the norm for us to pay a few quid for a small selection of newly added cars to the games. As much as everyone likes free content and not saying that game studios should scrap the ideas away, but we'd be more than happy to purchase DLC's again as long as all the content is new to the franchise. Forza Horizon 3 is a perfect example because we were able to get access to monthly DLC's of new additions to the game, the Forzathon segment was born and after every update there were 1 or 2 free additions to earn through the selected weeks
I dont like paid DLCs much, and now with the battle passes ir got even worst
I prefer the free system, at least I don't need to pay a trying beyond what I had paid for at start, they only need adjust this mess
To add on what you've said in the video, I wanna say this: I've been playing Arknights since May 2022, and that game has continuous updates where developers tries something new (that most of the time functions as intended and isn't *riddled with annoying game design and bugs* (though the Stultifera Navis event is the biggest offender of these...))
It's an entirely different genre, and it's a Gacha game, that much I'm very aware of. But the devs have a clear vision of what their game's gonna be. It wants to be a compelling fantasy that tells the conflict of many factions of a fictional planet, while simultaneously providing a challenging yet satisfying tower defense strategy game (that doesn't nickle and dime your wallet unless you want certain characters THAT badly). This aspect shines in most of the Main Campaign, Intermezzi and Side Stories, where despite being set in clearly different settings and atmosphere, it still excels in delivering interesting relationships and conflicts between established factions.
I think this lack of clear and achievable vision of what Forza Horizon 5 and Gran Turismo 7 wants to be may play a part in why these games feel lacking despite continuous updates. They knew what the games are, but they don't have a clue on how the finished product would be like. In other words: *they're confused.*
No idea what Arknights is, never heard of it
But as far as mobile games goes in general, i would say that the reason why they have constant updates, is because they can cover those updates since lot of ppl blindly spend their money on gambling, & secondly, Mobile games are usually easier & less complex to code & make (since they apparently will always have a limit when compared to console games)
Asphalt 9 for example, CSR2, Real Racing etc, all receive alot of updates due to the reasons stated above
But tbh, it's unfair to compare a console game to a mobile game, Mobile games are always a red flag for me, because you are limited on what you can do as a free player (unless you spend something, which is not guaranteed how much you will spend or what you will get) That's why mobile games system are despised by many people in the gaming community, because they're mostly pay 2 win, Free players barely can compete to paid players which feels really bad, that why i never played any game since then, they're greedy & a farm feast, i would've praised them lot of i had to pay only one time, so the constant updates they do doesn't really do them justice, no matter how much they do since they are p2w
@@uhm175 Exactly
So on point, Mobile games never count as a valid example imo because their system works very differently, Any Forza game in a bad state, is still more fun than being limited by mobile crap that's known as Microtransactions, i've been there & tried getting to make pull, i never got what i wanted most of the times, so i just quit wasting my time playing mobile games, glad i didn't go crazy spending
The problem when it comes to Console Racing games right now, is because Forza Horizon never got a real competitor as of recently, maybe that's why they haven't met a higher expectations lately, Hopefully NFS Unbound & TD Unlimited Solar crown, will give Forza Horizon devs a wake up call, cuz rn Forza Horizon 5 is kinda in a sorry state when it comes to new content
@@uhm175 I get the sentiment, and that's understandable. Arknights is quite a niche because of its Anime-styled characters and hard-to-master game mechanics. Thankfully the difficulty curve is kept intact, as they tested the maps with common characters you can get from the gacha pool.
I made the comparison because I found it a bit ironic that even a mobile game has a more understandable vision of what it wants to be than an actual 60$ AAA game. And if we take out the gacha elements of certain games, I found it compelling that they can actually work as a standalone paid Single Player game; just in case things go south and they have to shoot down the server permanently.
@@genmeriphoton7655 I see yeah, that somehow makes sense
But like somebody above me stated, Creating a car model takes quite longer, even though games such as RR3, CSR2 & Asphalt 9 & 8 due keep adding content constantly, but that's because the effort to create content for mobile games is somehow easier (but still limited to some certain stuff)
@@mrdonut8393 Alright, the fact that people championed Forza Horizon 5 as the "masterpiece of racing games" may not have helped with the fact that FH5 turned out as bland as it stands today. I still see people wanting Forza Horizon physics in... freaking Need for Speed games of all places. I wish I'm joking, but here we are.
Which reminds me: Forza Horizon 5 has the Eliminator mode, hasn't it? I heard some things that the map is designed _around_ that game mode, when it should've focused on the actual racing aspect instead. If that's true, maybe that explains why the game feels so barren despite taking place in a new locale. It can be that they've been chasing what's popular without realising what makes Forza Horizon and Battle Royale games work (separately) in the long term.
I'm so glad you brought up CSR2. The fact that Natural Motion is able to add new cars into the game while Playground Games isn't, baffles me. Being a free game, CSR 2 players enjoy 1 free new car every fortnight. Occasionally there are paid cars for die hard car collectors, such as the most recent Bugatti Mistral. I wonder, is PGG holding back some content or just pure incompetent?
this channel is so underated. Needs more subscribers. This is some quality content.
The use of NFS music in the background made my day :)
The NFS unbound car list isn't that important though. The player barely have enough money to get upgrades let alone new cars
Bro, I saw an article that said season 16 or 17 idk, will be FORDzaton or something like this, and it wouldn't have a SINGLE NEW FORD 🤣
The only meaningful new feature in Horizon 5 was the route creator update. Outside of community maps, the only events that are remotely fun are rallycross events and even those didn't improve at all.
Well I guess you could say the map was an update. Though it sure depends on your perspective. One thing is for sure, there was never a bad map in any Horizon game imo. Sounds also improved, though it wasnt that difficult given how bad FH4 was. The weekly playlists are a tiny bit more interesting (not by much), and there are some small improvements here and there. But I agree with you, in 3 years of development, this isnt a lot
@@horvathr95 I personally think that the map is bad. There aren't that many fun roads. The big exception is the hill climb, that one is really great. In Need For Speed Heat, almost all part of the map had interesting roads, especially the mountains. Forza lacks technical roads so much
Need For Speed has always had a smaller car list due to the game focusing more on customization rather than volume. I know there are people who don't really care for it but the customization is the only thing that draws me to Need For Speed personally.
I don't care about it, but when the mood suddenly hit me I just wanna be an artist for awhile
Forza horizon 5 is a beautiful looking game with 600+ cars all stunningly detailed. 600 cars is amazing! But you only need 20 of them. Because their PI system needs a complete overhaul.
Dude nfs unbound makes this game feel so stale in comparison from it's interesting aesthetical choices to it's progression system requiring me to WORK to get a new lambo rather than being handed one almost immediately in forza.
Is that a NFS High Stakes soundtrack from OG PlayStation? Damn, my entire childhood right there.
I think there is a potential for expansion 2 to come with a lot of new content, hopefully that may explain the lack of content in the before months while it was being worked on.
I wouldn't count on it, considering that Playground is currently in the middle of development on Horizon 6 (which will run on a new engine), it just may be the case that FH5 was doomed from the start - a rushed "last hoorah" for the 8th console generation, with most resources being pulled to FM8 and FH6 immediately after release.
Would explain the recycled theme for the first expansion (less time spent in pre-production), the lack of new-to-forza vehicles, and the fact that it feels like 95% of the budget went to the map instead of actually pushing the game forward gameplay-wise
they will give a small dlc and thats it
I fully expect Expansion 2 to just be Lego Valley, with the same Lego Cars as FH4, just with some Hastily (and Badly) "Mexicanized" Scenery added here and there where the UK assets do not match. Nothing More. I just Hope I am wrong.
@@simeonyves5940 exactly forza devs are ruining this sht
@@tugzzcouncil485 Yup, 10 Years to build an astonishing reputation, all to be Destroyed in just a Year.
This is what happens when you hand a AAA Franchise to a "B-Team" (as the "A Tream" at Playground are doing Fable) Instead of another, well established, Racing Game Studio, or just keep the Previous Game going even longer until the A-Team is done with its current Project.
The Reputation of the Developer and the Game goes straight down the old Porcelain Tunnel.
What a Tragedy.
I knew when I started hearing NFS High Stakes music in the start this'd be a good video. Great choice.
It is!
While I agree with this video at 100%, there’s something to point out as the fact that FH4 didn’t have 74 newtoforza cars in first 14 months but less than that number. Cars such as the Colorado ZR2 or 911 GT3 RS 991.2 was already in Forza Motorsport 7, making them returning cars.
Just like the Porsche Sport Classic we paid AGAIN in the Car Pass for FH5 after having paid for it in FM4
This is true, I counted them as they were new to horizon but yes they were in Motorsport 7 as well
ohhhhhhhh man does bringing up CSR 2 getting all the cool new Hoonigan builds sting. i was kinda pretending it didnt exist and Hoonigan was just ignoring a subpar Horizon entry
funny thing that evolution with Forza content is just weird. Adding all the dlc cars from horizon 3,2 to the new games (horizon 5,4) as free. Like the NSX, or the Viper etc
Ever since I got FH5 when it released, something just felt off and I haven't been as interested as I was with (especially) 3 and also 4. I think your videos have made me realize why.
This is the first time I've seen your channel and also the first video I've seen from you. So before I go into the game I wanna say great video essay. I will have a look at other videos in the future, but definitely keep up the great work!
I think with this video I have finally found the reason why Forza Horizon 5 just doesn't do it for me. I remember how hyped I was when the Forza Horizon 5 trailer was released - the Mexican music, the scenery, that fruity sound of the Bronco crashing through stuff - bliss.
Launch. Happy. Whilst playing the game I caught myself smiling and laughing at how much fun this game was - something that hasn't happened in a long time. It was just a throwback to easier times which were accompanied by Horizon 2-4 (I never really played FH1 and started with 2. I know, shame on me). But then, exponentially, the magic wore off, and I realized how empty the game seemed to be. And this video explains it well. What I think was missed is the irony within the issue. Upon starting Forza Horizon 5, you are bombarded with events to do, the whole map is practically clustered with stuff that the filter function becomes useful for the first time because otherwise you just won't find stuff. But without a steady progression (other than those weird expansions WHICH FORCED ME ONTO THE MAP FOR GOD's SAKE WHO CAME UP WITH THAT, GIVE ME A NOTIFICATION AND LET ME DO IT ON MY OWN TIME, DON'T FORCE ME OUT OF THE GAME) once you have completed the "boss races" (where, again, I love the freedom the game gives you, but being able to complete the Goliath for example without having to finish the normal races, for example, feels unrewarding), there is just nothing really to do. And the illusion of "look at all the stuff there is to do, fun wherever the eye can reach" quickly breaks down. Trying to fix this by recycling the best-received DLC didn't really help the cause as it was too late. The game had lost me at that point.
It really is a shame what the series has turned into. From a playground for petrolheads to, well, nothing really. They try to overshadow prior love and attention to detail by quantity, but the wrong kind. Again, the irony - there theoretically is enough content, but somehow there is not. I think only playing the game lets you understand that, it's a weird dynamic.
Of course, I don't want to advertise other channels in this comment, but I highly recommend Whitelight's video on Forza Horizon 5 for further explanation. It summarizes pretty well what direction the series is heading towards and what's wrong with it. Of course, it's not just this game, the problem arguably started with Forza Horizon 4 when they started to get frosty with content creators. But FH5 is a next step down, and it's not because "tHeY DiDn'T LiStEn tO tHe FaNs aNd gAvE uS JaPan".
I love Forza Horizon. And I still love this game. But something has to change at PG for FH6 to not be the last Horizon entry.
I would definitely love to see some more transparency from the devs, not only from PGG but also T10. Chris Esaki promised us that he'd reveal more about fm8 in "future forza monthlies" and that was....half a year ago at this point.
Fun fact nfs rivals was made in 9 months… and now a days 9 months will give us 2 new cars a sticker pack and maybe some new clothes
Love the nostalgic Need for Speed background music!
I stopped playing Horizon 5 as soon as I stopped caring about the FOMO in the weekly chores with every update. Best decision I ever made. It was a boring and mind-numbing cycle of updates just to get a handful of cars, some I probably already own, and some I'll probably never touch anyway. Now I'm just playing Unbound and having tons of fun with it on my own time. That game might have less cars overall, but every car currently in my garage feels important and actually has a purpose, not to mention the much better customization really make the cars feel like they're mine.
Funny, that's exactly what happened to me. In the beginning, I worked through the playlist from time to time. But over time I realised that it was useless. I often had to force myself to play. But the fun completely falls by the wayside...
Games like FH5, Pokemon Scarlet/Violet, Cyberpunk, No Man's Sky, Callisto Protocol, and sports/FPS series like Battlefield, Fifa, etc. are driving us to an inevitable Video Game Industry Crash part 2. They break sales records right now, but those same audiences tend to become quickly disenfranchised by the next release.
You only buy the new Fifa or 2k because the roster has changed. You only get one racing game over another because of the physics and car roster. You buy the new FPS because that's how you play with your friends who are also buying the new title. One thing that's consistent between all these facets of the industry, is that you're not really buying the game for its content anymore. The lack of competition because companies like Ubisoft and EA absorbed smaller studios, means you're buying the new titles because that's your only option. The content drip-feed is just the little bonus that bigwigs give you so they keep player retention. It's insidious and disgusting.
I am sooooooo looking forward to your NFS Unbound review!
Working on it!
Hey Mosey, I enjoyed this video and I was wondering if you could do a Ridge Racer retrospective mini-series after you're done with the NFS mini-retrospective, just wondering.
Keep up the good work and be well!
Possibly!
this is the most deadass video about this game, it kills me bc the game is so beautiful. The game itself has so much protentional, but I swear these people aren't true enthusiasts like we are (assuming). The map is so open, even with a sim rig, I'm able to drive around the map so quickly somehow. I really hope theyve noticed the player drop and what is wrong, but its forza so idk
I haven't talked about this much. But when I had Forza Horizon 3 and saw all the DLC cars and really wanted them. So when I bought Forza Horizon 4 I paid for the Ultimate edition expecting for similar awesome DLC packs like in Forza Horizon 3 but there were in my opinion very few DLC's packs and the a lot of the packs there were cars that were literally already in the game. Like the welcome pack. When you look at the description of the ultimate edition It says you get all of the DLC but they happened to decide to include them on the playlist instead of putting them in packs and I had no time to do the playlists and didn't consistently have Xbox live at the time so I would rarely get the actual new cars. Then there was finally a DLC that wasn't recycled cars and even with the ultimate edition I still had to pay for it, like what? That made me feel like I was ripped off.
I'm not mad at Playground. I'm just feel empty towards them, also nice Rocket Bunny S14, I love the Cherry Blossom design too.
THANK YOUUUUUUUUU I MADE THAT JUST FOR THE THUMBNAIL!!!!!!
An odd thing about the Lancia, Fiat, Abarth situation (and DS), Stellantis is still present with Chrysler (rather Dodge and Jeep. The 300 is around anymore), Maserati, Opel, even Peugeot who managed DS, and Vauxhall. So it’s particularly those 3 brands instead of just Stellantis
I feel like that biggest problem that we're witnessing with FH5 and others with post launch content is that it's between two things, money and a lack of interest between all kinds of gamers and the media. Money can be sometimes a issue because games are becoming more expensive to make these days and it still isn't helping because of COVID. Plus it also sometimes explains why some racing games have cars and content come and go. Remember when GT5 had this problem before release? For the second reason, it's just that racing games don't have the mainstream attention then they use to. Which is why we don't get a lot franchises in this category. The causal players would normally play Mario Kart or a non-racing game. Racing games these days are in it's own bubble and the only time racing games ever catches interest is car culture, which is why we don't hear anything from the devs making these games in fact look at Test Drive Solar Crown, after it's most recent trailer we still got nothing from them. Yet the mainstream media doesn't want to dive deep why and/or even call out the errors or issues that these racing games have because of their small popularity.
Youre a Chad for using Nfs High Stake Ost as the intro
As a long time Horizon player I'm not that bothered with the car list. All very well having lots of new cars but if the map and gameplay are boring then having a new car isn't going to make up for it.
7:05 I mean there’s always depth to these stupid licensing cases. The SLR McLaren has been in The Crew and GT for years yet hasn’t been in Forza since 2015 - sometimes these companies refuse to be in games over things we (players) can’t even imagine.
7:50 is because CSR2 doesn’t need to program handling or physics.
8:51 wasn’t it the 2018/19 GT-R?
10:25 I understand and agree on the lack of new cars, but Unbound 1. Only had a 2 year dev cycle 2. Has customization for cars now and 3. NFS has always been extremely slow at adding cars after the launch of NFS 2015.
Yup that’s absolutely true, but still Forza doesn’t get an actual car from them from my knowledge. There’s no way a team with their experience needs years just to program handling and physics for one car. In any case more clarification from Forza would help endlessly. I appreciate the comment and thanks for watching Jake!
@@ultraviolet_channel They definitely don’t need years, but I also imagine getting deals with mobile games is easier there’s no potential car damage and the massive market on mobile will promote the car more. Communication, again, would fix this problem though.
@@TheJakeMG absolutely, couldn’t agree more
I'm fine with how Horizon is right now but I do admit it can be MUCH better. The reason it isn't in my opinion is the lack of competition.
Not a lot of motivation to put in effort if doing the bare minimum won't lose you any players to the (non-existent) competition.
Also I realized the recycled cars would be much better received if they were cars that haven't been in a game in years (say since Horizon 1 or Motorsport 4). And communication is DEFINITELY a problem, remember we didn't even know Horizon 5 existed until E3 2021. Not once did they tell us it was in development.
it's not even just the fact, that they hold it back, but especially the gatekeeping of vehicles behind limited time to get... i hate it, if i won't play in a week i will never get the car i missed and they obviously try to hold up player numbers with it... this tactic is so dirty and desperate, that it makes me mad to a point, where i won't continue to play the game at all...
Another cut car you can still see in ads is the ford bronco sport, not a car I'd ever drive but I'd like to take it for a spin
This is a masterpiece of a video! The evidence is clear from 3-4-5. I also like the comparison of other games to fh5 and how you went about it! A freakin' mobile game shouldn't be doing better than forza!
THANKS L4B!!!!!
unfortunately mobile games now makes much, MUCH more money than any console games, letting them basically pay for every single license for any car that exist
I appreciate the NFS high stakes background music🔥
After watching your videos and bought Forza Motorsport 4 and enjoy it so much; I'm getting so nervous to find a used copy of Forza Horizon 1 for my Xbox 360 and in Italy is little bit difficult.
And I hope in future with my Xbox series S to play at least FH2 and FH3 when Microsoft and Playground will understand that good wine can be good also after some decade (sometimes even better than new ones).
Continue with your videos, they are amazing!
wow great video man! also btw yes, we are together.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING???????
The 1965 Alfa Romeo Gulia GTA has been my favourite car in Forza games for a long time. FH5 didn't even have Alfa to start with and I tried to ignore it. Outside of having no clue if they have re-added Alfa, I haven't played since July, and I am not even tempted to play it again, unfortunately.
Don't forget that Austrailia's auto industry has completely shuttered, meaning no more Aussie-specific Ford or Holden vehicles to play with. It doesn't help that crossover SUVs have permeated the market so much so that manufacturers aren't as willing to make fun, niche cars anymore.
I will say. Heat's lack of support was due to EA cutting Ghost short to merge them with Criterion.
The Bugatti Chiron and a few K.S. kits were cut from the Black Market Update
Unbound did bring those back as part of the base game while at the same time removing Audi from the car list.
I'm hoping with Criterion and Codemasters in charge. We can get proper updates for Unbound.
Edit: I forgot. The 1998 Nissan 240SX/Silvia K was also supposed to be in Heat as part of a collab with TofuGarage for an update but never got through.
Actually that’s only criterion, the Codemasters you’re speaking of is one of their studios, who did Dirt 5 and Onrush, now merged with Criterion as a secondary location expansion. The actual Codemasters are more focused with Grid and F1 franchises as Dirt and Project CARS no longer resume their schedule
Stopped playing Forza after Horizon 3 when in order to drive the majority of the new hypercars, you had to buy a car pass AT LAUNCH. Absolutely ridiculous.
I hope test drive unlimited solar crown is good I think one of the devs said there won't be that stupid wheel spin crap
Edit: basically saying your gonna have to work for what you want
The game will have a casino in it but I'm assuming it'll be like the older tdu games
Nice video, is a surprise seeing a great game franchise decaing 😢😢
But one question, what video editor are you using to make this video?
None
I completely forgot that nfs heat barely got and post launch content because the game was just so fun and the grind just felt right it was the perfect balance between not being too grindy or being way to easy.
I miss loading out at night with nfs mw bmw with my friends and getting that high heat level reward.
💯
As a player that has more hours in Forza horizon than most max rank in all but number 5 I have over 4000 hours in Forza horizon 4 I totally agree with what you said in this video.hotwheels was another recycled map that I really did not like much.my favourite dlc was the rally dlc from Forza horizon 1.thankyou for a great video.hope all that read this have a great day and all the best to you and your families.
It’s kinda funny how everyone hated the map in Horizon 4, but it’s still somehow better than the one in Horizon 5, despite the latter being 1.5x the size and more biome diverse
I recently swiped to your video and found that the points you made were almost exactly what I had in mind, and then watched almost all of your review videos. I really like them a lot and appreciate you making them. I play both Horizon and NFS and find that some of the old familiar feeling comes back in Unbound, starting with cheap low performance cars and winning races to buy cars and upgrades (a bit too hard to make money and a bit repetitive), it really is much more rewarding than games like Horizon 5. Despite Unbound's problems, I still admire Criterion Games for doing this because EA wants to appeal to both young new players and fans of the series, and now many players can't stand hard games anymore and want to get everything by cheating or paying for it in the first place. I'm surprised that Unbound is so lacking in promotion, the quality of the game isn't bad, and I even personally think it's one of the better NFS series in recent years. Also if I had to choose between a lack of initial car list and a lack of subsequent updates, I'd probably lean towards the former, after all Heat is a real pity. Looking forward to getting some new information and insights from your next video.
I'd say the lack of promotion of NFS Unbound was for the best, especially after we've seen a lot of games that launched in a broken state over the years (ie. Cyberpunk, GTA Trilogy, BF2042, and Callisto Protocol)
@@adlibbed2138 I know what you mean, a large part of the cost of many 3A games nowadays is spent on promotion, which will potentially lead to low completion of the game itself. But for Unbound, I think there is too much lack, which may affect the follow-up support and update cycle. The data seems to show a significant drop in sales in the first week than Heat, if this does not sell well, the future of NFS seems to be more worrying
@@adlibbed2138 Yes, these examples are absolutely typical of the negative effects