Resurrection 'F's Little Big Mistake
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Remember that time when they didn't include a form in a movie and then people argued about what it meant about the status quo for 6 years?
I do, because I was deep in the fandom during that time
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That's an interesting set of thoughts you presented.
Basically that Gohan, the perception that he lost a form and got weaker and such, where as potentially.
He just hadn't kept up his training and wasn't at his peak like he was years ago, but Freezer in turn had gotten MASSIVELY powerful achieving a whole new form.
Even if btw I personally watch the movie versions of BoG and Res F over the SUPER versions, because well the TV versions suck.
Plus Piccolo doesn't needlessly sacrifice himself and die there.
Super Hero did actually play around with how people perceive him, in a good way.
And back at the time we discussed it on that podcast EP a bit ago, I didn't have that thought cross my mind at the time and just also the dumb moment of Gohan momentarily off balance with the weighted clothes lol.
I seem to remember Resurrection F tried to minimise the number of transformations in the series. Possibly because it was meant to be for a more casual audience, or (reset the clock) Toriyama himself couldn’t keep track of them all. But I interpret Gohan not having anything beyond Super Saiyan as partly a way to illustrate that he wasn’t going to be a key fighter in the movie, but also because it was just simpler that way. It’s similar to why Freeza skips straight to his final form, or why Goku and Vegeta don’t use any transformations apart from Blue.
Obviously once Super happened, they decided to bring back all the old forms, hence why they gave Gohan the arc of needing to relearn them. Even then, the later movies kept with the principle of cutting out the numbered forms.
It actually makes sense from a story perspective that Freeza would only use his first and final forms. Those forms really just suppress his power, so using the one that controls it the most and then jumping to the one that allows him to access his full power would be the logical thing to do.
It also makes sense that the use of certain transformations would be minimized by the characters. Super Saiyan still has utility, but there’s no reason that Goku and Vegeta would bother with Super Saiyan 2 or 3 when they can go to Blue. Those transformations are just obsolete, as is Super Saiyan 2 for Gohan once he remasters Ultimate.
Nice Video Gaby, its always great to hear your opinions on this world wide beloved story! I know its still a problem but I'm also glad this Res F choice gave us Super episode 90, which is probably in my top 5 Super episodes. Also while Mutenroshi was told to have been secretly training, I kinda didnt liked that (Although I did enjoyed him tagging along in the universe 7 team), however the same explanation was given to Gohan in Super Hero and I was ok there. Probably because it tied back to Piccolo's earlier complaints and closed that plot point in the same cohesive movie and not something that negates a bunch of previous storylines where the mutenroshi was absent. Anyway great video as always!
Hello, Gaby! Long time no talk! :D
I can understand Gohan being really rusty, as he hasn't seen a good fight since Super Buu and chose to be a husband, father and a scholar, but yeah, his moment in Revival of F and in that Super episode were just to have him be a distraction so that the main characters can come and save the day.
Nice video by the way ^-^
I just assumed that neither Toriyama nor Toei really had a plan of what to do with Gohan post-ROF. Toyotarou, at least, seemed to stick with Gohan continuing to train and keeping his Ultimate state after the TOP... but then, when it came to doing the "Super Hero" recap arc, he had to bring Gohan back in line with how Toriyama and Toei had written Gohan as essentially one foot in, one foot out when it came to him actively training (which you mentioned with how Gohan was seemingly doing some portions of training in secret, hence his mastery of the Makankosappo, but still needed a rage boost to even re-unlock Ultimate... and maybe SS2 too, but that's a form that's often ignored or skipped over anyway because it's not visually distinctive enough from regular SS).
I don't think you get that Toriyama intention noisily tanked Gohan's character. This actually started before the end of the Cell Saga. Gohan, who has been the primary POV character after the timeskip, suddenly becomes a pacifist out of nowhere. Toriyama was clearly done writing a battle manga after Cell and he decided to use the worst character to do useless main character power ups that had no bearing on the story. Gohan before he fights Cell and Gohan after are two completely different characters.
Gohan just isn’t a pure warrior like his father or Vegeta. It really is that simple. He does what he has to, when he has to but, he doesn’t want that life. So while he does achieve these incredible levels of power, he will not maintain them once the threat is eliminated.
The transformation wasn't explained clearly enough to begin with, its one vague line from old kai that was explaining how to activate the form, everything after was assumption on reader and toeis part.
This isn't even the first time he got a vaguely explained power up that he never earned
It wasn't an unearned powerup, this is entirely Gohan's own hidden power that he had all the time but couldn't use because he's a soft pacifist.
All the ritual did was enable him to use his power at will without extreme anger.
We can't rule out a small bonus boost and it even seems like Gohan was getting stronger just from handling the heavy zed sword, but that's not to say it was entirely a powerup.
@@1wayroad935 There's alot of problems with gohans power ups but I don't think any of them weren't earned.
A majority of them seemed to cause more problems than they solved though.
I always interpreted it as he lost his ultimate 'form' before they even retconned it into being a 'form' tbh.
Edit: I think it's funny how people complained about super Saiyan Gohan enough in BoG that the animators made him look ultimate then.. but that was before this... So they were able to soft retcon and just say a powered up base Gohan got his butt whooped by Beerus? Not having to see gold hair so they can weasel through the next movie which they made him not know either form. Lol
The problem with Gohan and a lot of child characters in fiction is they aren't meant to grow up because there character is defined by being a inexpensive child.
It's difficult to write a character go through all stages of life and make them entertaining to watch throughout all of it.
He was meant to grow up.
The end goal was for Gohan to grow up like Goku, becoming a strong fighter, who was also extremely intelligent.
It isn’t really like “Pokemon” for example, when substantial time does pass but nobody is there for the plot or logic, they’re just there purely for entertainment.
@@kujoova
(No offense)
He wasn't meant to grow up because the Cell Saga completed his character arc, after that AT struggled to make him the main character.
i thought when Old Kai unlocked his potential, he stated that all Gohan had to do was become a Super Saiyan, so the unlocked power basically added to his base Super Saiyan form.
During that arc, Gohan had trouble going SSJ2 and using his full power.
He lacked the anger and motivation to do it consistently. Remember back against cell he needed so much motivation to finally stop holding back.
When he tried to fight buu, he found himself unable to get angry enough to use his full power, at least in the anime he says this clearly as he failed to destroy the cocoon then got almost killed by buu.
So what the ancient kaioshin ritual did is remove gohan's anger requirement so he can then use all his power without needing to be super motivated and angry.
When Gohan asked him how to powerup without going SSJ, the answer was "just do the same thing you did for ssj" and the result is different : he can now power up without transforming.
It doesn't make it impossible for him to go SSJ, but ssj is now pointless for him.
And his power can be reduced by lack of training, which is normal, but he should never need ssj again.
Without training, the old 50% becomes the new 100%, and he should be able to access all the new 100% without transforming.
That's basically gohan's character from the very beginning : a pacifist with huge hidden power that he can't use at will. This hurdle was finally resolved at the end.
In addition to becoming physically weaker without training, Gohan has the added flaw of becoming even weaker when he forgets how to be angry . Other characters don't suffer from this flaw because they don't have hidden power to access.
That green jumpsuit gotta go man
I see it as Gohan being forced to go back to a life he never really wanted in the first place. Gohan never wanted to fight. Ever. He has never experienced any positive experiences relating to fighting except maybe the time with Goku in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in the Cell Saga or the time he trained Goten and Videl.
This is a guy who finally got the chance to relax, settle down, and leave all the fighting behind. He has a job and a family now. Him losing his transformations is him subconsciously not wanting to be dragged back into this nonsense again.
Sadly, the rest of Super made it clear that he wasn't going to be allowed to, so he was forced to start training again.
I don’t see Gohan going super saiyan as the most necessary plot hole, it’s not too big of a deal. It’s to show that he is rusty, and that’s stated in the movie. He didn’t forget them, he forgot how to.
The issue lies within Piccolo’s strength and that consistency. Piccolo is someone that consistently trains, and I find it hard to believe he’s fall behind Gohan who is doing little to nothing at all. Piccolo should be the one that is putting in work, because he isn’t rusty. He has basically no other duties other than focusing on his strength.
He does not know how to access them due to his fatherly duties and earth life. He no longer trains, or trains very rarely.
Post TOP Gohan started training in secret, but I think it was borderline strength maintenance, rather than actually progressing. And if he did progress, it was probably insignificant.
woman not gettin why not keeping up your gym routine will severly weaken you and you lose your gains quicker then you gain it.
so ye Gohan being weaker and not fully able to keep all transformations makes sense. and every one else kinda kept up with it's training. even krillin for a bit but not enough that is why 18 made fun of him getting wounded by a bullit. so this was already in the buu saga adressed.
Gohan is the lamest cast character to this day that just get pulled out of insignificance cause people loved ss2 gohan in cell saga. all other versions are trash
meanwhile all it took was 1 movie and a bs transformation for gohan to reach the status of ui goku... It's ok to point out bad writing bro, there isn't great continuity in the series which is what she's pointing out.